Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-26228374-20150321040919/@comment-121511-20150323100355

142.134.47.179 wrote: Thank you for all the detail! Sorry to ask, but what you said is backed by game lore, right? Not fan theory? I've just seen way to many fan theories in the past be automatically regarded as canon and it is a pet peeve of mine. I hope this comment didn't offend.

I do think that the chance that every alter is magic only by human efforts makes it hard to believe that EVERY alter and EVERY necklace has the same benefits and power. If humans did it, I doubt it would take long to find out, and certainly not Four eras.

Correct me if I am wrong, isn't Talos a deity created from the fusion of Tiber Septim and two others? They(NPC's and books) tend to focus on the Tiber Septim part though...

Also, do the Aedra/Aspects affect souls of those who died? Priests of Arkay state that Arkay is the one who leads those into the after life. Does he only lead those who believe in him? Also, if a follower of lets say, Stendarr, was to die, would his soul go to the Plane/planet of Mercy? Or to Aetherius? I know that Nords and followers of Shor automatically go to Sovngard, which is in Aetherius, and Deadric worshippers go to Oblivion, where would priests/followers of the Aedra/Aspects go when they die? Articles state Aetherius is the home of the Aedra, however, the Aedric planes are bound to Mundas, seen as "planets".

You are correct that we see less direct divine intervention, however, we may not see it all. We are usually limited to one part of the world in the eyes of one character. And while its true that there are some to reject the Aedra's existence, there is no denying that religious zealotry is a prime factor in modern day Tamriel. The Altmer after all base their entire ideology on the idea of "regaining" godhood that their ancestors had.

We should note though that the Thu'um and Dragonborn is still quite active, which both are a gift from Kyne and Akatosh respectively.

Most of it is derived from out-of-game sources such as texts on The Imperial Library, particularly the works of Michael Kirkbride, though significant numbers of those texts have in some way, shape, or form been included by Bethesda in Oblivion and Skyrim, and by Zenimax Online in ESO. Understand, however, Elder Scrolls Lore depends heavily on the unreliable narrator: many texts are coloured by bias if not outright false, and this combined with the fact that nothing is concretely explained makes speculation necessary in order to attempt to form general understandings. You'll find that very little is actually definitively verifiable in regard to "canon", though there is a great deal that is clearly wrong.

If you take anything from that, however, remember the unreliable narrator: much of the information presented to you in the games is either overly simplified or outright false, as most of the characters you meet and speak with are simple mortals whose knowledge of the universe is overwhelmingly limited. There are those who do know the greater truths of the universe, such as the Daedric Princes, but you often do not have the opportunity to ask them, they may not answer your questions directly, truthfully, or at all, or they may simply simplify things to the point that they may as well not have responded to you. At the very least Vivec provides you resources and tells you to determine the answers for yourself.

At any rate:

On blessings and enchantments, it's likely gameplay that they're all identical. And again, some may be genuine, some may not be: we simply have no way of knowing the truth of it.

Regarding Talos, he originated as three individuals: Hjalti Early-Beard, Ysmir Wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus. Hjalti was the figurehead and nominally the one named Talos and Tiber Septim, Wulfharth was both the ash-storm that flew above him and his greatest General, and Zurin Arctus was the Imperial Battlemage and his most trusted advisor. While it was Hjalti who most often wore the mask of Tiber Septim, however, it is heavily implied that both Wulfharth and Zurin played that role as was needed, such that Tiber Septim could maintain the appearance that he was ruling, conquering, and politicking simultaneously in different parts of the Empire. At some point before his death Hjalti, Wulfharth, and/or Zurin achieved CHIM: it is likely that one, two, or all learned of it from Vivec. Following the events of the Warp in the West, the three of them subsequently mantled Lorkhan, arranged their mortal "death", and fully embraced their Godhood as Talos: whether they became one entity through the process of CHIM or by mantling, or whether Talos is still three closely-linked entities is unknown. It was due to CHIM that Talos was able to mantle Lorkhan and take his empty seat in the mythic without losing his sense of self, and it is because of CHIM that Talos cannot be destroyed. While the ability of CHIM-holders to alter the Dream is powerful, it is also incredibly dangerous and difficult to use: the greatest benefit to CHIM is to stand outside of the standard order of the universe, and remain permanent even in spite of the efforts of Gods or the turning of the Kalpas.

On the topic of the Aedra and the Afterlife, keep in mind that those who are not bound for Oblivion or Sovngarde go to the Dreamsleeve: here their Souls experience whichever Afterlife they believed in during life, before being recycled. Sovngarde is a separate realm, created and presided over by Lorkhan: however, it is not restricted to Nords, and not all Nords go there after death. Any who believe in Sovngarde and die a violent death may depart for it: those who do not meet those requirements do not. The Planets are not themselves Afterlives, but rather the corpses of the Eight: they appear as planets due to the inability of mortal minds to comprehend their true form or nature. There is also in-game conjecture that the Moons are in the same vein the split-corpse of Lorkhan.

On the latter part of your comment, mind that it is not just "less" divine intervention, it is little to none. As earlier said, it was unthinkable in earlier ages for any resident of Nirn to believe that the Gods did not exist, as the Gods quite literally walked among them, spoke with them, and led them both in peace and in war. Gods of different Pantheons fought with one another. Aspects clashed with Daedric Princes. Demigods sent in their stead carried out their will and lived alongside their worshipers. This simply does not happen anymore by the Fourth Era, and the silence of the Gods is intrinsically linked to the beliefs of their mortal worshipers. It is the fact that belief in them is no longer absolute and unchallenged that has arguably rendered them comatose, and if not comatose, then the fact that even the most staunch worshipers believe the Gods do not directly intervene, and instead work "behind the scenes": mythopoeic forces demand that Aspect-Gods perform just as they are believed to perform, and if they are believed not to intervene in mortal affairs aside from the occasional nudge, they will do so. Either one of these may be true, or it may be something else entirely: the truth is unknowable, with the only fact that we have being that the Gods are silent, whereas before they were not.

As for Thu'um: it is intrinsic to Dragons, being their language, but while the initial teaching of Thu'um to mortals was a gift of Kyne (who directed Paarthurnax), Thu'um in and of itself is not. Once the knowledge was available to mortals, it was available: any who had the aptitude and the patience could learn Thu'um if they put in the work and the time, even if they scorned the Aedra and worshiped the Daedric Princes.

In regard to the anointing of Dragonborn, it is by no means necessarily a conscious process, we have no way of knowing exactly how "conscious" Akatosh is, and "consciousness" in and of itself isn't a perfect analogy. Keep in mind that Lorkhan is most certainly Dead, and yet both continues to preside over Sovngarde and continues to anoint Shezarrine incarnates. That said, it is also not necessarily Akatosh who gifts the Last Dragonborn with the Dragonblood. Akatosh is unique in the context of his creation, not in any other distinction from his mirror-brothers: presumably any of the various Time Dragons are perfectly capable of anointing Dragonborn, and likely have in the past. It is simply most often, whether correctly or incorrectly, attributed to Akatosh.