Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-71.58.163.238-20130703034923/@comment-13446185-20140327221552

-facepalm- See, the problem here is that you're assuming that the Septims were Dragonborns and using that as evidence. Here's somemore evidence

"The connection with the rulers of the Empire was thus there from the beginning - only those of the dragon blood were able to wear the Amulet of Kings and light the Dragonfires. All the legitimate rulers of the Empire have been Dragonborn - the Emperors and Empresses of the first Cyrodilic Empire founded by Alessia; Reman Cyrodiil and his heirs; and of course Tiber Septim and his heirs."

-The Book of the Dragonborn

BLESSED. BY. AKATOSH.

You see, here is where we enter the realm of "You just flat were not listening before." Dragonborns - proper Dragonborns - are blessed by Akatosh. It literally says, in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE, that this blessing is NOT hereditary - it is not passed down from parent to offspring. And yes, "Dragon Blood" is synonymous with being Dragonborn. Now do you see why I refused to use the term "Dragonblooded" for the Septim Emperors? BECAUSE MY ENTIRE ARGUMENT IS THAT IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THEM. I never called them Dragonblooded. Now, they are referred to as dragonblooded. But this is because they have the blood of Tiber Septim - not true Dragonblood of Akatosh. It appears to me that you're the one paying attention as I quoted that heredity line twice.

My entire point is that the Septim Dynasty was in fact blessed by Akatosh just as all other dragonborns are.

Re-read my post carefully, examine my evidence, and please try not to come back with a flame post. Try for a well-thought-out, patient response that actually ackgnowledges that I said anything beyond "No the Spetimsss wernt Dragunborn tey wur dragonblood lol its so obvious look". I did actually post a wall of text including circumstantial evidence. If you realize that Dragonblooded and Dragonborn are synonymous then why exactly did you even start this argument in the first place?

We don't NEED dragon-soul-absorption proof. We have proof right here. '''Dragonborn/Dragonblood status is not hereditary. 'Therefore, the Septim Dynasty cannot'' be Dragonborn, the lot of them, because Tiber's status wasn't passed on. Actually, I think eventually the line went on to people who weren't even descended from him! His nephew became Emperor, and following that I would bet good septims (see what I did there?) that not a single one of them was Dragonborn. I think I see what you are trying to say now.

You think that because these people are descended from the Dragonborns that they can't be dragonborn because the dragon blood isn't hereditary.

What I'm trying to say is that they are dragonborn, just not necessarily through heredity but due to Akatosh blessing each heir with the Dragonblood (possibly during their coronation).

So first of all, Varen. Here is the entirety of what is on his page:

"Varen was the crowned Emperor before the events of The Elder Scrolls Online. Believing that only a Dragonborn can rightfully take the Ruby Throne, he formed the Five Companions to find the Amulet of Kings for a ritual to appease Akatosh. Unfortunately, he was tricked by Mannimarco, and the ritual actually weakened the boundaries between Nirn and Oblivion, allowing Molag Bal's followers to conjure the Dark Anchors."

"a ritual"

No mention of specifics. No reason to believe that he actually tried to light the Dragonfires. Hmm.

"tricked by Mannimarco"

Yep. Right there. The reason whatever Varen tried didn't work. Mannimarco sabotaged it.

So why are you blaming it on the fact that Varen wasn't Dragonborn again? Please don't quote wiki pages.

'No mention of specifics. No reason to believe that he actually tried to light the Dragonfires. Hmm.'

I played the beta dude, the entire ritual goes down right in front of your eyes and what happens is the Dragonfires are corrupted.

'Yep. Right there. The reason whatever Varen tried didn't work. Mannimarco sabotaged it.'

The ritual was doomed to begin with as the whole thing was Mannimarco's idea.

"Mannimarco tricked Varen into breaking the covenant"

-The Prophet

It wasn't Mannimarco who broke the covenant, it was Varen, who was tricked by Mannimarco. As he lit the Dragonfires without being an heir to Alessia.

"This shall be my token to you, that so long as your blood and oath hold true, yet so shall my blood and oath be true to you. This token shall be the Amulet of Kings, and the Covenant shall be made between us"

"So long as you and your descendants shall wear the Amulet of Kings, then shall this dragonfire burn"

"So long as the Blood of the Dragon runs strong in her rulers, the glory of the Empire shall extend in unbroken years."

-Trials of St. Alessia

The Covenant was made between Akatosh and Alessia and stated that only heirs to Alessia (who were Dragonborn) could light the Dragonfires. Varen broke this covenant, as he wasn't an heir to Alessia.

"Varen Aquilarios, you are no heir to Alessia, you will pay for your sacreledge!"

-Mannimarco

Mannimarco used the breaking of the covenant to then perform his own ritual which disconnected the souls of Nirn to their host.

Also, OF COURSE the "only a Septim can light the Dragonfires" is true. It's visibly true. But that doesn't prove that they were Dragonborn. What Varen believed (or, rather, the wiki's word choice of what Varen believed, which could be iffy) essentially is based on ruler-worship - the practice of glorifying one's ruler or past rulers, especially by connecting them to their predecessors closely in media. I'll answer this with the same quote as used above.

"only those of the dragon blood were able to wear the Amulet of Kings and light the Dragonfires. All the legitimate rulers of the Empire have been Dragonborn"

I have no idea why you mentioned that heredity had nothing to do with being Dragonborn. It's not at all relevant to the rest of the paragraph. However, by definition, as being Dragonborn is not hereditary, and the Septim ability to light the Dragonfires is hereditary, then the Septims either were not Dragonborn, or their ability to light the Dragonfires was not linked to it.

Because of this; "due to a link with the Amulet of Kings/descendance from Tiber/both"

The ability to light the Dragonfires isn't hereditary, it can only be done by Dragonborns.