Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-26213507-20150715194939/@comment-24075086-20150810042840

Shigeru Thalmor Slayer wrote: Phantasys wrote: Imperial fanfiction on what Thalmor plans are do not count as evidence. Divide and conquer? LOL it's worked so well with Hammerfell hasn't it? They got the asses of their remaining troops kicked and they were forced to withdraw without anything gained! Also the provinces would be MORE effective free from the imperial banner rather than less. The elder council itself is trying to have the emperor assassinated! Cyrodil itself was stricken with a crapton of rebellions and riots only about 10 years ago. The empire's finished, anyone who says otherwise has never studied history. Also the empire is a leech Ulfric's speech mentions no longer being burdened with imperial taxes making up for its deep deep debt. College Mage Ferris' argument is crap. The dominion could simply invade Cyrodil now if they could do so that easily. The legion they sent to Skyrim was a spare legion, they have THREE on the border of Valenwood ready for an invasion. Skyrim would be better off on its own rather than being tied down by a crumbling, corrupt empire in deep debt with at best wavering loyalties from even the Cyrodilic peoples. If the Thalmor invade...then GOOD! They can weaken themselves wiping out the empire for us and leave themselves ripe for extermination from Skyrim and Hammerfell.

Lol...no long term planning? That's rich considering the Emperor was either incompetent enough to accept a deal that any moron would know would lead to rebellions or greedy and desperate enough to try and hang onto power as much as possible. First of all, everything I type is not fanfiction. I simply do something you don't: I speak to NPCs, read in game books and research the lore and of course, I played as a Stormcloak to see their perspective. Also you're discounting the fact Ulfric himself says the Stormcloaks cannot fight the entire Empire in an open invasion. Should you attempt to attack Solitude before the Emperor's Cousin's Wedding, you're met with this direct quote from Ulfric: "We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now.". Ulfric in game said he can't afford a full Empire invasion and you said Skyrim would be better off on its own? That means if the Dominion invade, goodbye Skyrim.

Say whatever you want about the Empire, but don't talk about Ulfric as if he were the Holy Grail of Skyrim because he is not. Ulfric is not a good man. Not even an honorable one regardless of how his admirers claim. A man of honor does not slay the innocent, they do not put their personal beliefs above others, they do not have a "if you're not with me, you're against me" mentality and kills any who don't fight on his side. Ulfric may believe his cause is genuine and he may believe the garbage he tells of "I fight for my people". But Ulfric fights for Ulfric. He challenged a young man, not a warrior, and killed him just to prove a point (And I don't care if he killed him in fair combat or not), but when the battle of Whiterun was in full swing (no matters which side), where was Ulfric? Back in his fortress in Windhelm. When the Imperials breach Windhelm, where was he? In his castle, not on the front lines. The only time he's ever seen actually fighting is when you take Solitude and that is it.

Both factions have their flaws but if I have to choose the lesser of two evils, I choose the Empire because at least it can justify its flaws. Can Ulfric say the same? Of course not, because for him killing everyone that's not with him regardless of their reason is right. Tearing apart a society because you're not allowed to worship Talos openly when everyone got along fine worshiping him in secret is right. Setting yourself up for inevitable destruction is right. Again, Stormcloaks lack foresight and are just a bunch of brats at the table complaining that the last sweet roll was taken. They would have been better off sticking with the Empire as resistance forms like in much of the rest of Tamriel. Hammerfell is resisting because they're united. The Stormcloaks tore all that unity to shreds and now they have no chance, especially since the Thalmor WANT this civil war. DIVIDE AND CONQUER. Have you been hit on the head? The Empire is corrupt and indecisive and is on a fast track straight to oblivion! Look at the provinces not part of the empire! Morrowind-recovering and prospering, Hammerfell- the same, Black Marsh- no longer being held slaves by the dunmer. Meanwhile High Rock and Skyrim are paying off the empire's debts! I've played this game through dozens of times now.

Ulfric is injust? The empire is LETTING A FOREIGN POWER KILL THEIR CITIZENS! Ulfric has tried to reason with the empire before and it got him years in prison despite being PROMISED the right! Just goes to show how good an imperial promise is. Torryg sat and did NOTHING while his people WERE BEING KILLED! Ulfric doesn't fight on the front lines? Okay...Tullius did the same...and Elisif is more of a hindrance to her faction than a bood, a moronic ditz that needed to be protected from both her own stupidity and her enemies. A liability on all fronts rather than a capable leader. And you want to stick that walking trainwreck on the throne?

Oh yess...worshipping secretly...and I suppose the people that have been going missing for years and years were just accidents right? The empire lets the thalmor wander around willy nilly killing its citizens. No state that allows that has any iotum of right to rule! The thalmor have done no more damage now than they were doing before. The empire is DEAD, it's a parasite that refuses to let go and is now dragging the rest of Tamriel with it. Cyrodil itself is in a state of resentment over the kick in the balls the WGC was! Skyrim SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH HAVING THEIR CITIZENS KILLED BY THE THALMOR! You can repeat your bullshit as many times as you want but the fact remains the "empire" is a corrupt, inefficient, husk of what a true empire was and is a hinderance on its provinces! They have no chance? Tell me...how in oblivion does the Thalmor hope to get an army into Skyrim? Through Cyrodil will cause the "empire" to become a meatshield and prep Hammerfell and Skyrim to pounce on the, already outmanned by the legions, Thalmor and wipe the false empire out along with them. Sail around the seas will get them killed as 1. Nords are natural seamen and a naval battle will be suicide and 2. those waters are called the Sea of Ghosts for a reason. The FACT IS the empire's lost all the trust it had from its provinces, it has the potential to unite tamriel yes...but not as a benevolent willing government only as a tyrannical police state that rules through force and fear. It's sold out Hammerfell to the thalmor, it's displayed to Skyrim that its promises are worth all the contents of a sewer, it abandoned Morrowind to the daedra and its name is now mud in all three provinces.