Talk:Alchemy (Oblivion)/Archive 1

Discussion
I don't do alchemy alot, which should be my next project since I have a whole garden of herbs lying in my inventory, but this quote caught my eye: ''Your character has to be in the respective skill level in Alchemy to use the appropriate apparatus quality level. So, for example, a novice alchemist cannot use the Journeyman, Expert and Master apparatuses and so forth.''

Is this really so? On one of my characters, I can't remember which, but he definately wasn't a journeyman in alchemy yet he could use a journeyman mortar and pestle to make potions. I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify this. Daniel 08:06, 5 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I think its simply that you cant take advantage of the tools as well as you should be able to. For example: Novice putting 4 items in a potion isn't going to get your skill up any faster, and you probably wont get all effect out of it. I did all my alchemy today, from 0 to 100 in a couple hours (using the duplication cheat) and I can safely say that I had all of the tools the entire time and it made no mention that I couldnt/shouldnt have them. --ShakataGaNai 14:19, 5 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Using more than two ingredients has no bearing on, nor is it affected by, your skill. It is just to get more component combinations and make more complex potions with more simultaneous effects. However, I agree with the fact that you can apparently use any apparatus at any skill level. I was merrily using Master equipment when I was a Journeyman. 68.35.130.224 06:10, 16 June 2006 (CDT)

I think it might be the same as armor/weapons in that respect: depending on your main level you might be able to find it as loot, but it won't be in stores yet if you aren't high enough. My level 29 has an expert mortar that he can use but he's only an apprentice in alchemy. I think that you can still use it, but just not as well as you could if you were that level+. You can wear orcish armor when you are level 10- but it doesn't work as well for you if you are not a higher level in heavy armor (Journeyman at least, most likely). If you are level 10-, you won't find it in stores though.

The level of an apparatus only affects the strength of any potions/poisons you make with it (i.e, a Restore Health potion made at 50 Alchemy using only Novice apparatuses will be a lot weaker than the same potion made at the same level using only Journeyman apparatuses). Diachronos (talk) 05:28, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Spliting this article into multiple articles
I think this article should be split into multiple articles of Alchemy, Potions, and Ingredients, because it's long, some of the information is repeated, and those sections certainly are large enough (or will soon be) to have their own articles. Perhaps a short summary here, with a link to each article, would be better. Lastly, although the question and answer format is great and easy to understand, should it be cleaned up and be written in a more information/paragraph-like form? --TheSpectator 07:43, 20 March 2006 (CST)

Hmm, sounds good to me. I added the information basically from my alchemy site, but for the Obliviowiki it would make sense to split this up, so the information would be present in the respective category, including questions and answers. i'll try to prepare something in the evening. --Darliandor 11:14, 20 March 2006 (GMT+1)

Thanks for putting some order in this. I will go over the content as to see if everything is still current with the knowledge up to date.

This is alot more ordered and welcoming to read.

Master Perk
Can anyone explain how the master perk works? If only one effect is needed to make a potion, and each ingredient has four effects doesn't that mean that it may be quite hard to create sensible potions? Suppose I should be bothered to go off and test this...


 * Only the first effect is used when using single ingredients; the effect you would get by eating it is the same as the type of potion you would make. It's not particularly useful unless there's a specific effect that is harder to find ingredients for, but by the time you can do this there are dozens of combinations. The only real value to this ability is being able to mass-produce potions; you can make hundreds of potions cheaply and sell them for an easy profit or spam poisons on something. Chirikov 19:54, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

Notes on Master
I'd like to see some notes on how to be the best alchemist you can be. How to boost alchemy over 100, where to find good equipment, and anything else for someone who is allready a master alchemist. I'd add some stuff but I'm sure I'd have errors.--70.178.102.138 22:41, 8 May 2006 (CDT)

To start with, any place with necromancers is likely to have decent apperatuses(apperatii?) I found most of my master level apperat devices from neromancer dens. The right ingredients matter too: one ingredient with feather is as good as any other, but you need somdilius frond if you want a feather potion without damage health. Look for ingredients with all negative or all positive affects.(They do exist, the're just rare cause they're good) Also find reliable workhorse ingredients like flax, nightshade, fly antimaldia, blueberries, and wisp stalk caps. These are multi-purpose ingredients I find myself constantly using; stockpile them. Weight matters when you start lugging around 47 of every 0.5 weight potion you make(trust me, it will happen). The weight of the potion seems to be related to an average of the weights of the ingredients, but I have seen anomalies...(anyone else? 0.1 weight from deadra heart?) Lastly, don't be afraid to use those rare ingredients. I have kicked myself for refusing to use an ingredient in the early game, only to find a merchant who sells(and restocks) them later on; use it wisely and get the benifit before it is obsolete. --Scorpion451 00:11, 5 January 2007 (CST)

I think adding a description of things like how intelligence is supposed to effect potion quality would be a good idea. I can't seem to find any effect. For example my guy has a int of 70, and then he puts on rings of int+, drinks int+ potions until his intelligence is 170. His potions are the same strength at int 70 and int 170. There is something non-obvious here.

Apparatus locations
Currently, the Wiki is set up so that each apparatus has a page, with the main information for each one simply being the locations you can find the various quality levels. However, the majority of the information is incorrect (at least in the sense that it is guaranteed that you will find one there), and it would be redundant to post on all the pages that everything above Apprentice cannot be found outside the leveled lists.

With useful information for each apparatus being sparse, the simplest way to solve this would be to merge and redirect all four pages are a single one (Apparatus), with a single paragraph stating that higher level ones cannot be found until the requisite level. Each apparatus would have a subsection stating what effect it has on the creation of potions and the location of any Apprentice level versions for it (since Novice ones can be found virtually anywhere and the rest are in the leveled lists).

If there are no complaints, I'll be doing this sometime in the next few days. If you have a better way of solving this, feel free to respond - there might be something I'm forgetting. Chirikov 17:21, 11 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Sounds good to me. 22:35, 11 May 2006 (CDT)

Regarding Weight of Final Product
Disclaimer: I have not downloaded any patches or mods for Oblivion, so not sure if this still applies...

The resulting weight of your combined ingredients seems a bit glitchy. Assuming patches have not fixed this, here's how it works:

- The first time you create a particular type of potion/poison (ie your first "Paralyze 3 seconds" poison), its weight is determined by the average of its ingredients.

(Ingredient A = 0.1; Ingredient B = 1; Product = A+B/2 = 0.5)

- Any identical potions/poisons made thereafter will be made with identical weight, regardless of whatever ingredients you use. (if you use light-weight ingredients to make your first "Restore Health 5 pts for 20 seconds" potion weigh 0.1, and then next you combine Venison with Ham to make another "Restore Health 5 pts for 20 seconds" potion, the outcome will still be 0.1 weight!) This makes heavy produce very effective.

- Closing out and opening back up the alchemy kit will not reset the weight prototype, nor will exiting and re-entering the saved game. I've only found one way to reset the protoype: raising the Alchemy skill.

- If your Alchemy skill raises a level, and the magnitude of that potion type changes (say now you can make "Paralyze 4 seconds" poisons), then the prototype weight is reset, and all future weights of "Paralyze 4 seconds" will be determined by the next ingredients you decide to use. So when using heavy ingredients, take care not to Create too rapidly, or you might go right past the skill level-up, and your new prototype for your health potions becomes 2.0 weight!

- Not thoroughly tested, but it seems that the "Cure Disease", "Cure Poison", and "Cure Paralysis" weight prototypes never reset when leveling, since there's no real magnitude change to trigger it. -- Gal Kraft