Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-27007772-20140611204941/@comment-26213507-20150410180751

CatapractofOrder wrote: Ottoman Hold wrote: The Dominion wants the war to go on as long as possible so as many human lives are lost, but ultimately, they probably would benefit more if Ulfric took control. The Dominion is already benefiting because of how weak both providences are getting because of Then Civil War. No matter what happens, The Dominion wins, but they would win even more if The Civil War lasted years and all in all Ulfric and the Stormcloaks won. That's why starting The Civil War in the first place was a costly and foolish move on Ulfric's part. Well, no.

See, the problem with people both Stormcloak and Imperial is that they think the Talos ban is simply about Talos. It isn't.

First of all answer this; How frequent do you find Thalmor patrols in Skyrim? Quite frequent. By allowing the Dominion to hunt down Talos worshipers, the Empire has gave them the ability to move military units unabated throughout the land under the guise of hunting Talos worshipers.

Add to that this; When you go through Northwatch Keep, you see the Thalmor are keeping an Argonian prisoner. Now do you really think he's a Talos worshiper? Of course not; But that doesn't mean the Thalmor won't say that and with the Empire in the position its in it can hardly afford to challange the Thalmor on it.

The Thalmor are slowly but surely removing dissedents, and if the Empire does declare war on the Dominion, they'll be fighting both the Dominion army and the Justicars within the provinces. Add to that that by the time the Empire can fight, the majority of those who would fight who would lead, are lying in some mass grave beside some Thalmor prison.

You say that starting the civil war was a foolish move on Ulfric's part. So let me ask you something; Under Imperial rule the Thalmor continue to do what they were doing, whiddling away at any possible opposition. If the Stormcloaks win, then at least they have a chance to fight and win, rather then being dragged out of their homes by the Thalmor while their fellow legionarres look on with sorry faces.

You say that starting the civil war was a foolish move on Ulfric's part, I say what did you expect him to do when every moment the Dominion's in Skyrim makes rebellion less and less of a probability? How can you honestly blame them for rebeling when the Empire is letting the Thalmor kill anyone that stands in their way, when the Empire threw both Hammerfell and the Blades to the dogs? What is it the Empire wants? Time? So the Nords should just sit there and let the Thalmor kill them?

Now let me tell you something; No Empire has the right to expect that of a people.

I think you are missing the point. The Judiciers are similar to The Blades before The Great War. They infultrated the lands, and look what happened: The Blades were wiped out. Yes, the longer they are in Skyrim, the more damage they cause. The Empire had no choice than to play with the Thalmor by accepting the terms. In fact, the patrols are easy to take out silently, and the more that go into Skyrim and are never heard from again, the less The Dominion has to attack with. This is a method most likely used by the Thalmor, since no one knew they had been eliminated until after the unveiling of the cart. Obviously, you can't keep doing this, but it is a good way to school the Thalmor at their own game. They can cut down their numbers secretly, and The Dominion will only think that they died of natural causes or got lost. As for Ulfric, yes, it is true that rebellion would be harder later on, but Ulfric needs to think about the problem at hand. Starting a rebellion is killing off the only chance of truly saving life as they know it: mankind. The Empire is at a time of rebuilding, and Ulfric seized the opportunity. That proves he doesn't care as much for the welfare of Skyrim, but to get power as soon as possible. The best option for a rebellion would be after the second Great War. If all had gone well, then mankind would have beaten back The Dominion, and then Skyrim could peacefully secede, that is, unless Ulfric played his cards incorrectly again and slaughtered Torygg. The point is, it is all about timing. Ulfric was a fool to start The Civil War at the point where a second Great War was on the verge of happening. In order to win a war, sometimes you have to sacrifice some things, such as Hammerfell. The Empire is in the middle of a secret cold war with The Dominion, and all the officers know it, as well as plan in secret. As for letting it happen: The Empire can't attack because of the treaty. They have to leave it to the natives, and then tell The Dominion it was not The Empire's fault. The Empire is not to blame for the issues. The Stormcloaks are fighting the wrong people. End of story. If legionaries are seen slaughtering Thalmor agents, then The Dominion will try to attack The Empire before all the plans are set. They can't do anything but wait, but Ulfric has chosen to lash out, and he is taking out mankind with the Thalmor. The genocide of all Talos worshipers is currently happening, and instead of playing the Thalmor, Ulfric has gathered a bunch of religious zealots to show themselves. Ulfric is showing the Thalmor that they won't stand for it, which is tactically the wrong move. Should the Stormcloaks wait for Thalmor agents to come by their house and slit their throats I the shadows, or fight for independence and lose men while doing so, then try to take on The Dominion in open combat? Easy question to answer for ANYONE who knows anything about military strategy.

As for the independent Skyrim point, you aren't factoring in the men and women lost during the war. If Skyrim remains with The Empire, then the amount of people killed is significantly less. It would be even better if The Civil War didn't even take place, but I guess that is out of the question. Yes, Nords are good warriors, but their numbers will be less after the conflicts, and, in addition, The Dominion definitely outnumbers them. As for the superiority, yes, Nords are naturally born fighters. The fact that they die less than Imperial soldiers is because the game made it that way. The Stomrcloaks have two handed weapons, and because of AI, will try until complete death to defeat the enemy. An Imperial sword is the only weapon that legionnaires use, which is all just the game. The game might be trying to say that Stormcloaks are better, but that still doesn't change things much. All in all though, Nords might be able to fight Imperials, but against expert mages that outnumber them by far, they have little chance to win, in addition to having less numbers than before the start of the Civil War.