Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-96.252.245.207-20130116060134/@comment-24696651-20150330170846

Before writing this, I had to remind myself that this isn't argument. It's a discussion between two people whose views are different but in many cases compatible.

I'm sure you don't want to take away the exploration element. I'm saying this:

1. The complexity and sheer volume of content required to make the original idea work would inevitably result in resources which would otherwise have been used for different things being diverted to the main quest.

2. The main quest itself would result in slowly advancing whilst consolidating your holdings, seeking to take only specific sites of interest. It's perfectly possible to incorporate exploration into strategy (eg Civilization), but when most (nearly all) of the cities have already been established, the player would instead end up with an experience more similar to Total War, where the focus is very much on military expansion.

That said, if you had to explore for, say, mines and new plants for export, or you had to clear out bandits, it would serve as an interesting supplement to the strategic element, although care would have to be taken so as to avoid it becoming a trite distraction or something which interrupted the strategy.

I agree that Skyrim ended feeling hollow in many respects. I never got the impression that I had a huge impact in Oblivion, but then, I didn't care in Oblivion. Becoming the master of a guild is far too easy - the Companions and College of Winterhold were far too short, and the Thieves' Guild ended up feeling like a bunch of thinly disguised dungeon crawls for the most part. The Dark Brotherhood, for me, was probably the best. The faction related side-quests were fun, but none of the factions felt quite as meaty as Oblivion. I suspect that the Mages' and Fighters' Guild were guilty of the same thing as the Thieves' Guild in Skyrim, but I wasn't particularly critical whilst playing Oblivion; I just played the game and got on with it. The system in Morrowind worked (though I haven't played much of it), though Morrowind factions seemed to me more like a sort of endless to-do list than an interesting story.

I'm not sure how one would approach the problem of adding a real and visible impact to your actions in a video-game sense. No-one wants being the head of a guild to become some sort of management simulator, and the endless supply of generic dungeon clearing quests quickly become stale. At the same time, having too dramatic an impact with one quest could mess up another. Introducing new NPCs and adding new buildings, perhaps in a manner similar to Hearthfire, certainly couldn't hurt, but the best way to make it seem important would be a series of subtle, but noticeable changes across an entire city, or whole game.

Visiting and exploring multiple provinces across one game, whilst an interesting experience, wouldn't increase detail per se, but rather expand the same level of detail across a larger area. The different types of architecture and similar theme of issues within holds give them interesting variation, but it still feels rather similar, particularly when you leave the city and explore the ruins and whatnot. When you're in the Reach, you're still feel like you're in the same sort of place the the Rift is in. The culture, and enemies, and loot, are the same. Three provinces would not solve this issue. In the Elder Scrolls, the difference would be skin deep. A different approach to designing the game is needed. If they choose Elsweyr, they could easily have a different culture in Pelletine and Anequina. You don't need a second and third province to have this cultural variation.

I agree that many of Skyrim's innovations must be fleshed out. It was baffling that I was allowed to have a bedroom in the west wing, but not the east. I'd like it if there was some sort of challenge to the building beyond gathering resources, or a way to fine-tune my customisations better. I do believe that more needs to happen in your house. Like your child going missing when he goes out to play and you having to rescue him, for example.

Crafting and weapon customisation is nice (and we do need better staffs), but getting better weapons is usually just a case of grinding your smithing up to 100. I'd much rather the loot you find be more powerful and able to compete with high level crafted gear. Admittedly, having to grind your way through many dungeons to find the randomly generated loot you want isn't better, but at least put in fun and interesting quests which culminate in that item being found.

NPCs should move - the roads are far too empty in Skyrim - and shops should be bought, but we do have a limited supply of NPCs here. We can't replace everyone who dies. If shops are bought out, they should be changed and renovated, not just change hands (except where appropriate). Having cities with more people would only work if, again, we scaled up one specific province, instead of expanding to more than one.

I apologise if I've gone on too long, or if I've come across as more argumentative than I meant. But at this point I'm not sure I can be bothered to read through what I've wrote and check it.