The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot/Log July 2019


 * 3:48: Rozty: hello, i definitely remembered on my own and it wasnt because i saw the ping
 * 3:48: Atvelonis: what up buttercup
 * 3:48: Atvelonis: lol
 * 3:48: Ottoman Hold: XD
 * Rupuzioks has joined the chat.
 * 3:48: DaBarkspawn: lol
 * 3:48: Ottoman Hold: I have not been to a moot in a year even when I look at the pings, so it can't be worse than that
 * Dwemer35 has joined the chat.
 * 3:49: Dwemer35: Hi
 * 3:49: Atvelonis: o/
 * 3:49: Atvelonis: I think Tiny said he might not make it
 * 3:50: Ottoman Hold: Something like that yeah
 * 3:50: Atvelonis: idk what his second proposal is, but I can do the first one for him as I know what he means
 * 3:50: DaBarkspawn: Confirmed. No reliable internet in Tamriel
 * 3:51: Rozty: first one is so cool it makes me think that we should put it for the morrowind essentiality as well
 * 3:51: Rozty: the other games already have it tbh, idk why morrowind doesnt
 * 3:52: DaBarkspawn: I'm not exactly sure I understand what autocategorization means.. can someone explain the mechanics to me?
 * 3:53: Rozty: it adds the category on its own depending on what you write in the infobox variables
 * 3:53: DaBarkspawn: rgr
 * 3:53: DaBarkspawn: sounds reasonalbe
 * 3:53: DaBarkspawn: reasonable*
 * 3:53: Rozty: yeah, and saves time
 * 3:53: Rozty: people never add them when making new pages
 * 3:54: DaBarkspawn: Is there a list or a mapping somewhere of what variable values create what categories?
 * You are now away.
 * 3:56: Rozty: from what we currently have? it's not set in stone, you can set it from the template pages
 * Blademaster Jauffre has joined the chat.
 * 3:56: Atvelonis: It's usually done in Modules
 * 3:56: Atvelonis: Hi Jauffre
 * 3:56: Ottoman Hold: o/
 * 3:56: Dwemer35: Hello
 * 3:56: DaBarkspawn: (wave)
 * 3:56: Atvelonis: The templates are all linked to the relevant modules in documentation. I was careful about that
 * 3:56: Atvelonis: e.g. Template:OnlineCharacters uses Module:Online for DLC categorization
 * 3:57: DaBarkspawn: rgr, thx
 * CarloV3r has joined the chat.
 * 3:57: CarloV3r: What up
 * 3:57: DaBarkspawn: doc
 * TinyClayMan has joined the chat.
 * 3:59: Ottoman Hold: Well, nvm
 * 3:59: Atvelonis: Heya
 * 4:00: TinyClayMan: Hello everyone
 * 4:00: Atvelonis: We can wait 5-10 min for stragglers and then get started
 * 4:00: Dwemer35: Hi
 * 4:00: Rozty: tamriel has internet after all
 * RedMatt007. has joined the chat.
 * 4:00: DaBarkspawn: lol
 * Starkiller131 has joined the chat.
 * 4:02: Starkiller131: Hi
 * 4:02: Ottoman Hold: yo
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 * 4:02: DaBarkspawn: hola
 * 4:02: RedMatt007.: Hi
 * 4:02: Rozty: o/
 * TinyClayMan has joined the chat.
 * 4:02: Starkiller131: So... When does the moot start?
 * 4:03: Atvelonis: couple minutes
 * 4:03: DaBarkspawn: tick
 * 4:03: Starkiller131: Ok.
 * 4:03: DaBarkspawn: tick
 * 4:03: DaBarkspawn: tick
 * 4:03: DaBarkspawn: tick
 * 4:03: Dwemer35: Hello
 * 4:03: Starkiller131: XD
 * 4:03: DaBarkspawn: aloha
 * 4:03: RedMatt007.: Hi Dwemer
 * 4:03: Starkiller131: Today's unofficial topic: atvelonis alts.
 * 4:03: Starkiller131: Myself included.
 * 4:04: Atvelonis: They're numerous, and populate half the staff
 * 4:04: Starkiller131: ^
 * 4:04: DaBarkspawn: You are trying to control alt by delete?
 * 4:04: Starkiller131: Carlo and atvel are the same person... Obviously
 * 4:04: Rozty: have you noticed how they never talk at the same time
 * 4:05: Starkiller131: ^proof!
 * 4:05: Starkiller131: XD
 * 4:05: Atvelonis: apology for poor english
 * 4:05: Atvelonis: where were you when alt deletes
 * 4:05: Atvelonis: i was sat at home editing when phone ring
 * 4:05: Atvelonis: "alt is delete"
 * 4:05: Atvelonis: "no"
 * 4:05: Atvelonis: Ok it's been a few minutes I think we may as well start now
 * 4:06: TinyClayMan: I will present the first topic then
 * 4:06: Atvelonis: The floor is yours
 * 4:06: TinyClayMan: I propose to add autocategorization based on the gender and race of the character for all games similar to DLC autocategorization already used in Online pages
 * 4:07: Rozty: yes
 * Starkiller131 has left the chat.
 * 4:07: Rozty: i want that as well tbh
 * 4:07: DaBarkspawn: (+)
 * 4:07: Atvelonis: Are you proposing just for ESO?
 * 4:07: Atvelonis: wait you said that
 * 4:07: Atvelonis: all games
 * 4:07: TinyClayMan: All games
 * 4:07: Atvelonis: Yeah makes complete sense then
 * 4:07: Atvelonis: @Rupuzioks
 * 4:08: Rozty: there might be some exceptions though, especially with eso
 * 4:08: Atvelonis: You wrote the module last time - I imagine you'd be ok with doing this one too?
 * 4:08: Atvelonis: Yeah certainly
 * 4:08: Atvelonis: I'm not sure what we should do about "varies"
 * 4:08: Atvelonis: both categories? or neither?
 * 4:08: Rupuzioks: sure
 * 4:08: TinyClayMan: Neither, I guess
 * 4:09: Rozty: i've been putting both myself whenever i saw that for the gender
 * 4:09: DaBarkspawn: Categories that are autoadded can be removed, right?
 * 4:09: Atvelonis: but they still HAVE genders/races, that's the thing
 * 4:09: Ottoman Hold: How do we do it normally for varies
 * 4:09: Atvelonis: idk there's not really a policy right now on that
 * 4:09: Atvelonis: I tend to do both genders... but not all races
 * 4:09: Atvelonis: which is kind of stupid
 * 4:09: Rozty: yeah me too
 * 4:09: Rozty: because what if it's not all races
 * Stygies VIII has joined the chat.
 * 4:09: Rozty: i can't know, i dont count them
 * 4:09: Atvelonis: Yeah sometimes it's just like 3 races
 * 4:09: Stygies VIII: h e n l o
 * 4:09: Stygies VIII: did you begin?
 * 4:10: Atvelonis: Like dominion races, pact races, etc.
 * 4:10: Atvelonis: yeah
 * 4:10: Rozty: \o
 * 4:10: Atvelonis: Talking about gender/race autocats now
 * 4:10: Stygies VIII: what is wrong with them?
 * 4:10: Ottoman Hold: In terms of automatic stuff, varies should do nothing and require manual addition of categories
 * 4:10: Rozty: exactly, idk if it would still work if someone wrote a parenthesis as well
 * 4:10: TinyClayMan: They are not here
 * 4:10: Atvelonis: Oh just automatically categorizing based on the infobox instead of doing it manually @sty
 * 4:10: Rozty: like for example Altmer (Ghost)
 * 4:10: Rozty: or something
 * 4:10: Rozty: oh great
 * 4:10: Rozty: ( ghost )
 * 4:10: DaBarkspawn: If autoadded cats can be removed, then I see no problem with the algorithm taking a best guess and it can be fixed later if required.
 * 4:10: Blademaster Jauffre: (ghost)
 * 4:10: Atvelonis: What if we stopped using varies altogether?
 * 4:10: Atvelonis: And just listed out the known races
 * 4:10: Atvelonis: And known genders
 * 4:11: Blademaster Jauffre: I support that
 * 4:11: Blademaster Jauffre: It's more direct
 * 4:11: Stygies VIII: same
 * 4:11: Rozty: wouldn't that make the infobox too long in some caes
 * 4:11: Rozty: cases
 * 4:11: Atvelonis: Eh not really
 * 4:11: TinyClayMan: 3 more lines?
 * 4:11: Stygies VIII: the infobox can have parts that can be hidden and expandable
 * 4:11: DaBarkspawn: well, there are more than three races
 * 4:11: Atvelonis: Generally it's not all 10 races, it's usually just 3
 * 4:11: Stygies VIII: it's not like it has to be opened
 * 4:11: Stygies VIII: and 3 genders
 * 4:11: Stygies VIII: in TES
 * 4:12: Atvelonis: Well that's a bit complex, the tab stuff
 * 4:12: Rozty: (thinking)
 * 4:12: Stygies VIII: male, female, hemaphrodite
 * 4:12: DaBarkspawn: Male, female and Vivec?
 * 4:12: Blademaster Jauffre: It's more useful for people who come looking for information, too.
 * 4:12: Stygies VIII: pretty much
 * 4:12: Rozty: that's true, yeah
 * 4:12: Rozty: ok im good with it
 * 4:12: Blademaster Jauffre: Because varies can range from two races to ten, or anything in between
 * 4:12: Atvelonis: I think for Vivec we would just say male and female and allow the reader to connect the dots
 * 4:12: Ottoman Hold: I definitely agree with listing rather than varies if it's only a few races
 * 4:13: Stygies VIII: okay
 * 4:13: Atvelonis: What would we do if we didn't list them all?
 * 4:13: Rozty: ?
 * 4:13: Atvelonis: Like gender is not so hard. There's male and female and all readers know that. But not all readers necessarily know all the races
 * 4:13: Atvelonis: Well not that
 * 4:13: TinyClayMan: Online: pages missing info
 * 4:13: Atvelonis: like if we're saying that we're only recording races if there's 3, but saying something to the effect of "varies" if it's 10
 * 4:13: Atvelonis: I personally think that's a little weird
 * 4:13: Atvelonis: And I'd also like to avoid a dropdown or similar. It's just more to maintain
 * 4:14: Rozty: oh i get what you're saying
 * 4:14: Atvelonis: and also usually doesn't work on mobile
 * 4:14: Stygies VIII: yeah don't do dropdowns, no
 * 4:14: Atvelonis: I think I'm ok with listing them all out, even if it stretches the infobox a bit
 * 4:15: Rozty: yeah thats true, it seems like the better choice
 * 4:15: DaBarkspawn: agree
 * 4:15:Atvelonis: It's on very few pages that it would be an issue anyway
 * 4:15:Atvelonis: other thoughts?
 * 4:15: Stygies VIII: nein
 * 4:15: Rozty: there would be a lot of pages that would need changing
 * 4:15: Rozty: i smell a bot task
 * 4:16: Stygies VIII: bot changing
 * 4:16: Rozty: (kappa)
 * 4:16: Atvelonis: I should be able to do it with my bot yeah
 * 4:16: TinyClayMan: They can be found with a bot and listed on some page so that it would be made easier for editors to change "varies" for other races and genders
 * 4:16: DaBarkspawn: We like the bots, the bots that go boom
 * RedMatt007. has left the chat.
 * 4:16: Atvelonis: Ok well that covers everything I think?
 * 4:17: Rozty: yeah think so
 * 4:17: TinyClayMan: Yep
 * 4:17: Atvelonis: Ok. So we're now voting to automatically generate the relevant categories in infoboxes that have the race and gender parameters, instead of inputting these manually. Races and genders will also be listed out instead of written as "varies"/similar.
 * 4:17: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 4:17: TinyClayMan: Vote time?
 * 4:17: TinyClayMan: (+)
 * 4:18: Rozty: (+)
 * 4:18: Dwemer35: (+)
 * 4:18: DaBarkspawn: (+)
 * 4:18: Ottoman Hold: (support)
 * 4:18: Atvelonis: 5-0-0
 * 4:18: Atvelonis: 6-0-0
 * 4:18: Blademaster Jauffre: (Support)
 * 4:18: Rupuzioks: (+)
 * 4:18: Blademaster Jauffre: I'm so glad I remember how voting works in chat
 * 4:18: Atvelonis: 8-0-0
 * 4:18: DaBarkspawn: I had to look it up, I can never remember icons here
 * 4:19: Atvelonis: @Carlo @Stygies votes?
 * 4:20: Rozty: guess not
 * 4:20: Atvelonis: ok we'll wait a couple minutes and then move on
 * 4:21: TinyClayMan: Ah, while I have not presented the second moot, I would like to advertise my CT thread. Please vote
 * 4:21: Atvelonis: link?
 * 4:22: TinyClayMan: *hard to link using phone*
 * 4:22: TinyClayMan: Can you help?
 * 4:22: Rozty: that's like a commercial break
 * 4:22: TinyClayMan: *elevator music*
 * 4:22: Atvelonis: Thread:1038117
 * 4:22: Atvelonis: It needs ONE more vote to be by-the-books
 * 4:22: Stygies VIII: (+)
 * 4:22: TinyClayMan: Thanks
 * 4:22: DaBarkspawn: Ask your doctor if Consensus Track is right for you.
 * 4:22: Atvelonis: 9-0-0
 * 4:22: Atvelonis: I think Carlo's dead
 * 4:22: CarloV3r: Shit sorry
 * 4:22: Atvelonis: he lives!
 * 4:23: CarloV3r: Please give me a minute to read through it
 * 4:23: TinyClayMan: The night of the living Carlo
 * 4:23: Atvelonis: yeah np
 * 4:23: DaBarkspawn: Or it just took you a long time to log in as your alt :P
 * 4:23: CarloV3r: Well yeah my alt it Atvelonis, obviously
 * 4:24: Atvelonis: I thought you were MY alt
 * 4:24: DaBarkspawn: Can both be true?
 * 4:24: CarloV3r: Inception :O
 * 4:24: CarloV3r: (+) though
 * 4:24: DaBarkspawn: ha
 * 4:24: Atvelonis: 10-0-0
 * 4:24: Atvelonis: we gucci
 * 4:24: Atvelonis: as they say in the streets
 * 4:24: Atvelonis: Ok next topic
 * 4:24: Atvelonis: Tiny I think you have another
 * 4:25: TinyClayMan: This topic is connected to the previous one, and is basically a subtopic. To autocategorize Khajiit subraces it is necessary to decide the way we add them to the infobox
 * 4:25: Rozty: wait, are we categorising khajiit types in eso?
 * 4:25: Rozty: oof
 * 4:26: Atvelonis: I haven't been. I'm not totally convinced it's necessary
 * 4:26: Stygies VIII: "we gucci"
 * 4:26: TinyClayMan: I think it is better to categorize them
 * 4:26: Rozty: would placing it in parenthesis next to the race be enough, and would the autocategorisation still work if we do that
 * 4:27: Atvelonis: Is this just for ESO?
 * 4:27: Stygies VIII: but what about other games? do we have confirmations, what types are in other games?
 * 4:27: Rozty: yeah, doesn't happen in any other game
 * 4:27: TinyClayMan: Especially those easy to identify. Like Alfiq and Senche
 * 4:27: TinyClayMan: Just ESO for now
 * 4:27: Blademaster Jauffre: I already support it
 * 4:27: Atvelonis: How many are there in ESO?
 * 4:27: CarloV3r: Oh shoot I gotta go
 * 4:27: Stygies VIII: mixed feelings
 * 4:27: Blademaster Jauffre: Some Khajiit sub-races are very hard to tell apart
 * 4:27: Atvelonis: ok bye carlo
 * 4:27: Blademaster Jauffre: In ESO
 * 4:27: Rozty: oof
 * 4:27: CarloV3r: Apologies, good luck!
 * 4:27: Rozty: cya carlo
 * 4:27: Blademaster Jauffre: Cya
 * 4:27: TinyClayMan: Cya
 * CarloV3r has left the chat.
 * 4:27: Dwemer35: Bye
 * 4:28: Rozty: yeah, idk if we should be categorising them that much if we are not even sure what they are
 * 4:28: TinyClayMan: We can tell apart some of them
 * 4:28: DaBarkspawn: There is Ma'iq and there is not Ma'iq. Ma'iq doesn't care.
 * 4:28: TinyClayMan: Those can be categorized easily
 * 4:28: Blademaster Jauffre: No, we do *know* what they are, but often their differences aren't that obvious to the naked eye
 * 4:29: Rozty: i think just writing it "Khajiit (Type)" would be good for now
 * 4:29: Atvelonis: How do we know it though?
 * 4:29: Atvelonis: Aren't there like 20 subraces or something?
 * 4:29: Blademaster Jauffre: Or we could do, Race: Khajiit, (Subtype)
 * 4:29: Blademaster Jauffre: So like, Race: Khajiit, Alfiq
 * 4:29: Blademaster Jauffre: Or something like that
 * 4:29: TinyClayMan: Rozty's variant looks better to me
 * 4:29: Rozty: eh, not with a comma, usually eso pages have a parenthesis for those things
 * 4:29: Dwemer35: I think it's stated which breed is majority in each of the games
 * 4:29: Stygies VIII: sounds like too much complication
 * 4:29: Stygies VIII: I think separate categories are better
 * 4:30: TinyClayMan: >How do we know it
 * 4:30: Rozty: for the breeds in eso? i still think they are too much
 * 4:30: TinyClayMan: We can categorize those that are easy to identify
 * 4:30: TinyClayMan: Alfiqs, Senches and probably 2-3 other
 * 4:31: Stygies VIII: do you think users will actually use the categories, or will they look for subrace info on the pages?
 * 4:31: Stygies VIII: I mean, will anyone USE this?
 * 4:31: Rozty: lmao no
 * 4:31: Rozty: as it is now people are not even including the normal race and gender categories in pages
 * 4:31: Stygies VIII: brb
 * 4:32: Atvelonis: I can imagine some people using them. But I don't know if it's worth changing the templates for it
 * 4:32: Rozty: changing the templates is too much for just a few dlc characters
 * 4:32: TinyClayMan: The subrace can be written in the race parameter along with the race. Not much should be changed
 * 4:33: Atvelonis: imo since it's solely Elsweyr that we're talking about, I don't think that's enough to warrant an entire new set of subcategories
 * 4:33: TinyClayMan: Hm
 * 4:33: Atvelonis: Maybe if the other breeds start to appear in the other DLCs/games then I would say yes
 * 4:34: Rozty: for now, are we including the breed along with the race? i don't remember if i saw it anywhere
 * 4:35: Atvelonis: I've seen it for a couple of the irregular ones. Like Alfiq
 * 4:35: Atvelonis: Which I think is appropriate
 * 4:35: Rozty: and if we start doing it, should it be done for the rest of the khajiit in eso, or just the elsweyr characters
 * 4:35: Atvelonis: Just to have it in the infobox/lede
 * 4:35: Atvelonis: Yeah that would be an additional problem
 * 4:35: TinyClayMan: Just Elsweyr
 * 4:35: Blademaster Jauffre: I think we should try to include their breed whenever possible.
 * 4:35: Blademaster Jauffre: Limited to Elsweyr, I think
 * 4:35: Rozty: maybe we should do it for all the ones that are not the breed of the player character
 * 4:36: Blademaster Jauffre: Outside of Elsweyr, the ones that look alike become even harder to tell apart
 * 4:36: Rozty: outside of elsweyr they are all the same breed
 * 4:36: Blademaster Jauffre: That too
 * 4:36: TinyClayMan: They stated that they won't backfill the previously added regions, so it is not needed in them
 * 4:37: Atvelonis: I still don't think it's quite needed
 * 4:37: Atvelonis: for elsweyr/in general right now
 * 4:37: Atvelonis: Do we want to do a vote now?
 * 4:38: DaBarkspawn: (=)
 * 4:38: Ottoman Hold: Yes because I have to leave in a minute XD
 * 4:38: Rozty: yeah, im starting to think that just including the breed along with the race in the infobox for all the new ones that appeared is the best choice
 * 4:38: Blademaster Jauffre: ^
 * 4:38: Atvelonis: are we ok with that being the proposal? no category, but requiring the breed if it's one of the weird ones?
 * 4:39: Rozty: yeah
 * 4:39: Ottoman Hold: Sounds ok
 * 4:39: Atvelonis: ok then commence voting based on that blah blah
 * 4:39: TinyClayMan: In the parenthesis after the main race
 * 4:39: Rozty: and by weird ones i mean those that were added with the dlc
 * 4:39: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 4:39: Atvelonis: yes
 * 4:39: Rozty: (+)
 * 4:39: Ottoman Hold: (support)
 * 4:39: TinyClayMan: (+)
 * 4:39: DaBarkspawn: (=)
 * 4:39: Dwemer35: (+)
 * 4:39: Atvelonis: 5-1-0
 * 4:40: Ottoman Hold: Unfortunately I have to leave before the final proposal, sorry o/
 * 4:40: Rozty: cya otto o/
 * 4:40: DaBarkspawn: Silence is support :P
 * Ottoman Hold has left the chat.
 * 4:40: Blademaster Jauffre: (support)
 * 4:40: Rupuzioks: don't know much about it (=)
 * 4:41: Atvelonis: 7-2-0
 * 4:41:DaBarkspawn: ditto
 * 4:41: TinyClayMan: 6*?
 * 4:41: Rozty: yeah
 * 4:41: Atvelonis: 6-1-0 yes
 * 4:41: Atvelonis: no
 * 4:41: Atvelonis: 6-2-0
 * 4:42: Rozty: 6-2-0 (kappa)
 * 4:42: Atvelonis: shut up im not here to do math, nerds
 * 4:42: TinyClayMan: lol
 * 4:42: Atvelonis: @Stygies?
 * 4:42: Atvelonis: also I can't close forum threads right now
 * 4:42: Atvelonis: idk why. it just infinite-loads
 * 4:43: Rozty: it's closed
 * 4:44: Atvelonis: It closes them, just without a message
 * 4:44: Atvelonis: I need the message
 * 4:44: Atvelonis: it gives ME closure
 * 4:44: Rozty: oof lol
 * 4:44: TinyClayMan: Ah, we have the 10th vote. Finally
 * 4:44: Rozty: yay
 * 4:44: Atvelonis: finally geez
 * 4:44: Atvelonis: we really need to speed up the CT process
 * 4:44: Rozty: do we have any more threads that need replies as a second commercial break now
 * 4:45: Atvelonis: Jauffre's CT is still technically up but it's sort of stuck as there are various problems that haven't been worked out
 * 4:45: TinyClayMan: ?
 * 4:45: Atvelonis: Not in the voting phase yet
 * 4:45: Atvelonis: We can talk about it later
 * 4:45: Atvelonis: @Stygies 1 min and we're moving on
 * 4:45: Rozty: ah the creation club one
 * 4:46: TinyClayMan: I will add another CT thread on Monday if I have the time
 * 4:47: Atvelonis: Ok next topic
 * RedMatt007. has joined the chat.
 * 4:47: Atvelonis: Dab this one is yours
 * 4:47: DaBarkspawn: So, pretty much everything I want to say is here: User talk:DaBarkspawn#SF:LOCAT for Lore Pages . Atv asked me to clean up a bunch of Cyrodiil lore pages because the grammar and writing are awful on a lot of them and I discovered that I was working without a style guide when I deleted some sections not matching SF but which folks thought were worth keeping.
 * 4:48: Atvelonis: oh my god that's a lot
 * 4:48: DaBarkspawn: lol
 * 4:48: TinyClayMan: (+)
 * 4:48: TinyClayMan: Read it previously
 * RedMatt007. has left the chat.
 * 4:48: Atvelonis: how about let's go through it point by point
 * 4:48: Blademaster Jauffre: You don't happen to have a summary of what it's about, do you?
 * 4:48: Blademaster Jauffre: Or that
 * 4:48: Rozty: yeah that's good
 * 4:48: Atvelonis: 1) "Regularize the sections (including, for example, optional sections where not enough information is available) for lore location pages."
 * RedMatt007. has joined the chat.
 * 4:49: Atvelonis: I'm ok with regularizing those in principle sure
 * 4:49: Atvelonis: y'all?
 * 4:49: Rozty: tbh i saw a couple of points that are already part of our guidelines in general so they can be skipped over
 * 4:49: Rozty: yeah
 * 4:49: Blademaster Jauffre: I guess
 * 4:49: Rozty: but we would have to decide the regular sections for all kinds of lore pages as well for a complete guide wouldnt we
 * 4:50: DaBarkspawn: Yes, at the bottom, I volunteered to help with that
 * 4:50: Rozty: oh wait, the topic is just for locations?
 * 4:50: Atvelonis: all lore pages
 * 4:50: DaBarkspawn: yes, and just for lore locations
 * 4:50: Atvelonis: what
 * 4:50: Atvelonis: oh
 * 4:50: Rozty: do other lore pages have a SF?
 * 4:51: DaBarkspawn: no, perhaps they need one
 * 4:51: Rozty: because this should expand to all of them
 * 4:51: Atvelonis: none REALLY have it
 * 4:51: Rozty: and more details can be decided upon later
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 * 4:51: DaBarkspawn: but I only really have a lot of editing experience with lore locations, so I only spoke to them
 * 4:51: Blademaster Jauffre: Heya PA
 * 4:51: Rozty: and somewhere that is not here i guess since this seems like a long long talk
 * 4:51: Rozty: o/
 * 4:51: Atvelonis: heya
 * 4:51: Poisoned apples: Hey
 * 4:51: Dwemer35: Hello
 * 4:52: DaBarkspawn: 'ello
 * 4:52: Atvelonis: I think if we're talking about doing this for lore locations we should do it for all of them
 * 4:52: Rozty: yeah
 * 4:52: Atvelonis: let's stay on track though
 * 4:52: DaBarkspawn: wfm
 * 4:52: DaBarkspawn: 2) History and descriptions should be focused on the location, with events and descriptions of other places only mentioned if they directly impact the location that the page describes.
 * 4:52: Atvelonis: yes? sounds like common sense
 * 4:52: Blademaster Jauffre: Seems logical to me
 * 4:52: DaBarkspawn: what happens is that people summarize books for location history and then include all kinds of stuff that happens elsewhere
 * 4:52: Rozty: huh? shouldn't this be already in practice
 * 4:52: DaBarkspawn: it's not, sadly
 * 4:52: Rozty: this is true for all pages in general
 * 4:52: Atvelonis: Oh you mean like for city pages, they might talk about stuff that happens in the region
 * 4:52: Atvelonis: but not specific to that city
 * 4:53: Blademaster Jauffre: Ohhh
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 * 4:53: Atvelonis: hi Star
 * 4:53: Rozty: if not then it should be removed normally
 * 4:53: Starkiller131: Hello
 * 4:53: DaBarkspawn: Or, "So and so invade the land of foo. Then they sailed off to Bar and did x,y and z"
 * 4:53: DaBarkspawn: That latter stuff is irrelevant to a foo page
 * 4:53: Blademaster Jauffre: Well, it would explain why they left foo.
 * 4:54: Atvelonis: Generally speaking yeah I think that's a good rule to follow
 * 4:54: Blademaster Jauffre: Though the x, y, and z shouldn't be there
 * 4:54: Atvelonis: Maybe very short summary if it's still a little bit relevant
 * 4:54: DaBarkspawn: right
 * 4:54: DaBarkspawn: clearly there is some subjective room
 * 4:54: DaBarkspawn: but the history of foo is not the same as the history of So and so
 * 4:54: Atvelonis: I think that can be handled at the judgment of editors as it currently already mostly is
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 * 4:55: DaBarkspawn: 3) Always write history from the perspective of the end of the latest game. Right now that would be the Fourth Era, the time of Skyrim and Legends. Thus, the events of all games and almost all documents would be in the active past tense: "The Nerevarine went to Vivec and ..." not "The Nerevarine had gone to Vivec and ..."
 * 4:55: DaBarkspawn: I think some of this is already in SF but not applied to Lore pages
 * 4:56: Atvelonis: For history, I agree, regular past tense is fine. No reason to use past perfect/past perfect progressive/etc.
 * 4:56: Atvelonis: Though I would note that when it's written from an in-game perspective it should be the present tense
 * 4:56: Atvelonis: Mostly not used on lore pages though
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 * 4:56: DaBarkspawn: right
 * 4:56: DaBarkspawn: game pages are different
 * 4:56: Rozty: i think we should make it clear that present tense shouldn't be used for lore pages at all
 * 4:57: DaBarkspawn: (+)
 * 4:57: Atvelonis: There are certain times on lore pages when it's appropriate. Like the lede
 * 4:57: Atvelonis: "Rimmen is a city in Elsweyr" > "Rimmen was a city in Elsweyr"
 * 4:57: Atvelonis: Like it still exists
 * 4:57: Atvelonis: So present is probably best
 * 4:57: DaBarkspawn: Well, that would be true for Kvatch ;)
 * 4:57: Rozty: oof why is it so complicated
 * 4:57: DaBarkspawn: But yeah, lede is not history
 * 4:57: Atvelonis: And for a random trivia point "In Oblivion, the Hero of Kvatch goes to X" >
 * 4:57: Atvelonis: "In Oblivion, the Hero of Kvatch went to X" I would say
 * 4:57: Atvelonis: Since it's talking specifically about Oblivion, OOG perspective
 * 4:58: Rozty: ive seen a lot of times though that there will be phrases like "currently, x and y is true", which should be avoided
 * 4:58: Atvelonis: But yeah. For the history header, and related subheaders, simple past
 * 4:58: Atvelonis: Yes agreed
 * 4:58: DaBarkspawn: IMHO, that trivia point belongs on the game page
 * 4:59: Atvelonis: Yeah but there are certain situations where it's needed, like if it's a thing and there is no game page
 * 4:59: DaBarkspawn: sure
 * 4:59: Atvelonis: I think I'm fine with this then
 * 4:59: DaBarkspawn: to answer Roz's question about why so complicated... even our exceptions have exceptions
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 * 4:59: DaBarkspawn: 4) Tone should be objective, neutral and encyclopedic. Do not use subjective terms like "Fortunately". Also, even if the only information we have on a location is a tourist guide, the wiki shouldn't sound like it was written by the Anvil Chamber of Commerce.
 * 5:00: Atvelonis: Yeah no debate there. I think that's already covered by TES:TONE etc.
 * 5:00: DaBarkspawn: 5) Sections should consist of text written from the combined research of several sources, rather than just summaries of books or questlines. If we are just going to do summaries, we might as well just link the original source and let the reader read it for themselves.
 * 5:01: Atvelonis: Do you have an example?
 * 5:01: Blademaster Jauffre: I'm iffy on that one if it means what I think it means.
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 * 5:01: Stygies VIII: oof
 * 5:01: Stygies VIII: back
 * 5:01: Blademaster Jauffre: Wb
 * 5:01: Stygies VIII: is the moot still going on
 * 5:01: Atvelonis: yeo
 * 5:01: Stygies VIII: good
 * 5:01: Stygies VIII: I mean gucci
 * 5:01: Rozty: yeah, in some cases there just might not be more than one sources
 * 5:01: DaBarkspawn: A number of the Cyrodiil pages were like this
 * 5:01: Rozty: which makes the summary important
 * 5:01: Atvelonis: It's fine to talk about questlines? I'm not really sure what you mean
 * 5:01: Atvelonis: Like, if a quest is the only source on something, that's all you can say about it
 * 5:02: Rozty: if pages are written otherwise despite the abundance of sources then it would just be a poorly written page
 * 5:02: DaBarkspawn: If there is only one source, fine, but see 2)
 * 5:03: Atvelonis: Ideally the quest shouldn't be cited. Rather we should be citing specific people and noting that they say/do these things in a particular quest
 * 5:03: Rozty: i think this is more with how a lot of times people will just rewrite the contents of a book a bit and just add it like that in the lore page
 * 5:03: DaBarkspawn: exactly, Rozty
 * 5:03: Blademaster Jauffre: Lore pages should try and include as much of the lore as possible and use the sources as reference material, even if it's just one source.
 * 5:03: DaBarkspawn: exactly, Jauffre
 * 5:03: Atvelonis: e.g. instead of "Events of "Quest"" as the ref it should be "Dialogue with X in Quest"
 * 5:03: Atvelonis: More specific and better
 * 5:03: Atvelonis: Ideally that's how it should be done
 * 5:04: Blademaster Jauffre: I remember the whole events of Skyrim theme oof
 * 5:04: Rozty: yeah, but sometimes it really is the events of the quest and not just dialogue
 * 5:04: DaBarkspawn: How do you feel about "Actions of Hero in Quest"?
 * 5:04: Atvelonis: I think it depends on the specific situation
 * 5:04: Rozty: yeah, point is they should be more specific and "Events of X" should generally be avoided
 * 5:05: Atvelonis: If you're citing something that just happened in a quest, like a staircase opening up in Blackreach, then I think Events of Quest is fine
 * 5:05: Rozty: ye
 * 5:05: Atvelonis: but if you're citing a specific action by the player, like the player got a thing and did a thing, then Actions of X in Quest is preferred?
 * 5:05: DaBarkspawn: How does this sound?
 * 5:05: DaBarkspawn: "5) Where possible sections should consist of text written from the combined research of several sources, rather than just summaries of books or questlines."
 * 5:05: DaBarkspawn: ugh
 * 5:06: Atvelonis: Maybe add a couple words near the end to emphasize that we shouldn't be building off a single source
 * 5:06: Stygies VIII: I had to read this twice but it's good
 * 5:06: DaBarkspawn: 5) Where possible, sections should consist of text written from the combined research of several sources, rather than just summaries of a single book or questline. References to dialog are preferred to just citing a questline.
 * 5:06: Stygies VIII: dialogue*
 * 5:06: Atvelonis: Yeah I like that
 * 5:06: DaBarkspawn: right
 * 5:06: Stygies VIII: good
 * 5:06: Rozty: yeah thats a lot better
 * 5:07: DaBarkspawn: Sorry, "dialog" is a word we use at work a lot
 * 5:07: DaBarkspawn: to describe the window
 * 5:07: Stygies VIII: I guessed
 * 5:07: DaBarkspawn: Roz and I had a dialogue about dialogs ;)
 * 5:07: Stygies VIII: t h o n k
 * 5:07: Rozty: (kappa)
 * 5:07: DaBarkspawn: 6) There needs to be a hierarchical sense of specificity versus geography. A town should have fairly specific information about the town itself, a region comprising of several towns might have specific information about areas not in the towns and fewer details about the towns and a province would have details on areas not in regions and less detail on regions and towns. Of course, this would depend on the geopolitical structure of an area, some parts of Nirn are much less organized than others. This is to avoid repeating verbatim the same information on town, then region, then province pages.
 * 5:08: Stygies VIII: woah dude
 * 5:08: Stygies VIII: that second sentence is wack
 * 5:08: Atvelonis: Similar to #2
 * 5:08: DaBarkspawn: yes
 * 5:08: Rozty: yeah thats true
 * 5:08: Rozty: was there a point where sections were taken from other pages?
 * 5:09: Atvelonis: Dunno. Wouldn't surprise me though
 * 5:09: Rozty: because thats something i do have an issue with in lore pages specifically
 * 5:09: DaBarkspawn: yeah Gold Coast has the same summaries as Kvatch does
 * 5:09: Rozty: and i think it should be greatly limited
 * 5:09: Rozty: oof
 * 5:09: Stygies VIII: oop
 * 5:09: Blademaster Jauffre: So you mean, like practically copied and pasted?
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 * 5:10: DaBarkspawn: Or just the same summary of the same book with slightly different words
 * 5:10: Rozty: i think this was people just taking the leads of other pages, adding a template above it and leaving it like that
 * 5:10: Stygies VIII: whoops I accidentaly closed the tab
 * 5:10: Rozty: oof
 * 5:10: DaBarkspawn: * DaBarkspawn prefers cokes to tabs
 * 5:11: Rozty: i still haven't closed mine, so we are still in the game
 * 5:11: DaBarkspawn: don't blink
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 * 5:11: Stygies VIII: what
 * 5:11: Atvelonis: I have my tab too
 * 5:11: Stygies VIII: why
 * 5:11: Stygies VIII: they closed the tabs
 * 5:11: Atvelonis: oof
 * 5:11: Stygies VIII: but back on topic
 * 5:11: Stygies VIII: we're revising #6?
 * 5:11: Stygies VIII: or?
 * 5:12: DaBarkspawn: meantime, I think that regions like Gold Coast shouldn't reiterate what is in Anvil and Kvatch lore pages
 * 5:12: Atvelonis: I think 6 is mostly covered by 2 really
 * 5:12: Rozty: i dont have anything else to say about the current one
 * 5:12: Rozty: and yeah
 * 5:12: Rozty: that ^
 * 5:12: Atvelonis: Just don't include info that's not relevant to the specific thing being discussed
 * 5:12: Stygies VIII: so we'd remove it?
 * 5:12: DaBarkspawn: yes
 * 5:12: DaBarkspawn: works for me.
 * 5:12: Stygies VIII: sure
 * 5:13: Atvelonis: onward
 * 5:13: DaBarkspawn: 7) The player character should always be referred to by name such as "the Hero of Kvatch" on first reference and then "the Hero" after that. Indirections such as "a traveller" or "a warrior" should not be used for the Champion, the Hero of Daggerfall, the Nerevarine, etc.
 * 5:13: DaBarkspawn: This happens a lot. IDK why
 * 5:13: Stygies VIII: this is fine imo
 * 5:13: DaBarkspawn: people feel the need to hide the identity of the PC
 * 5:13: Stygies VIII: happens a lot because people try to change the words
 * 5:13: Rozty: im kinda neutral about this
 * 5:13: Stygies VIII: to not repeat them
 * 5:13: DaBarkspawn: I suppose
 * 5:13: Rozty: it seems fine either way for me
 * 5:13: Stygies VIII: I think 7 is as good as it is
 * 5:13: Atvelonis: Neutral as well. Fine if you'd like
 * 5:13: Atvelonis: it's less ambiguous to state it
 * 5:14: DaBarkspawn: exactly
 * 5:14: Stygies VIII: yes
 * 5:14: DaBarkspawn: 8) As the Gold Coast page shows, we have a great deal more information about some flora and fauna than others. Right now, the page separates out those that we can write paragraphs about (usually book summaries) versus those that we know little about. This is a very meta way of separating "notable" fauna from other fauna and I feel we should not be doing more than listing them all with links to their pages for more information. This is particularly true since a given flora or fauna might appear in more than one region, resulting in the larger summary being duplicated over a number of pages.
 * 5:15: TinyClayMan: Maybe we can create a big page with a big list for those?
 * 5:15: Stygies VIII: big pages with big lists are not mobile-friendly
 * 5:15: DaBarkspawn: Category perhaps?
 * 5:15: Atvelonis: I don't think flora/fauna sections are a problem
 * 5:15: Atvelonis: We could just name it Notable flora/Notable fauna
 * 5:16: DaBarkspawn: Right but is just being in a book somewhere sufficient criteria for notability?
 * 5:17: Atvelonis: Yeah, I mean if it's known to appear in a specific region, with that region mentioned by name, I'm fine with it
 * 5:17: Stygies VIII: notability is something prominent or unique imo
 * 5:17: Rozty: the more info they have that we can use the more notable i guess
 * 5:17: Atvelonis: Well the notable flora/fauna are generally the ones unique to that region and possibly some nearby ones
 * 5:17: Atvelonis: So it is prominent. It doesn't include every single creature
 * 5:17: Atvelonis: Which for an entire region would be a bit much
 * 5:17: Rozty: true
 * 5:18: TinyClayMan: Endemics?
 * 5:18: Atvelonis: I think endemics/diseases are also fine if they mention a region by name
 * 5:18: DaBarkspawn: I'm just worried that in TESXXX: Akavir, we are going to find fauna from Morrowind or something and have duplicate summaries
 * 5:18: Rozty: in the first place, creatures present would be listed in the game pages, idk how to feel about bullet point lists of everything that has been seen in a region being in a lore apge
 * 5:18: Rozty: page*
 * 5:19: Atvelonis: some duplication isn't the end of the world. only when it's not relevant to a page
 * 5:19: DaBarkspawn: okay, scratch that one
 * 5:19: DaBarkspawn: Solutions:
 * 5:19: DaBarkspawn: 1) Use SF:LOCAT as is for lore pages. This is the quick and easy solution, but the fit is not so good. Lore pages contain things not in game pages and vice-versa.
 * 5:19: DaBarkspawn: 2) Create new SF pages for lore pages. I would be willing to help with this.
 * 5:19: Atvelonis: I'd rather just add on to the existing ones
 * 5:19: Atvelonis: We can add a lore header or something to each
 * 5:20: DaBarkspawn: that works too
 * 5:20: Rozty: yeah, use the existing ones as a template
 * 5:20: Rozty: and add the specifics
 * 5:20: DaBarkspawn: do I have edit perms on SF?
 * 5:20: DaBarkspawn: (I've never tried)
 * 5:20: Rozty: no iirc
 * 5:20: DaBarkspawn: So, how do we proceed
 * 5:20: DaBarkspawn: ?
 * 5:21: Rozty: for a team effort, we can make a CT (kappa) that is bound to not take ages
 * 5:21: DaBarkspawn: lol
 * 5:21: DaBarkspawn: oof
 * 5:21: Rozty: for sure
 * 5:21: Atvelonis: I can make the actual edits. How about I write something up and send it to the Discord for feedback once I'm done, and we can adjust as needed from there
 * 5:21: Rozty: yeah, the best solution tbh
 * 5:21: DaBarkspawn: works for me, many thanks @Atv !
 * 5:21: DaBarkspawn: ugh, why doesn't this chat tab expand @names ???
 * 5:22: Atvelonis: It's ancient. 2013
 * 5:22: Atvelonis: I have Atv set up as a ping though
 * 5:22: Rozty: because chat is a relic of the past
 * 5:22: Atvelonis: options -> enable chathacks
 * 5:22: Atvelonis: https://i.gyazo.com/6866e317a75458f81f8cb5a38bd51b3e.png
 * 5:22: Atvelonis: anyway
 * 5:23: DaBarkspawn: kthx
 * 5:23: DaBarkspawn: So I think we are done with my topic
 * 5:23: Rozty: we cant really vote on it right
 * 5:23: DaBarkspawn: It is now the Sixth Era ;)
 * 5:24: Atvelonis: we can do a vote that we adopted these changes
 * 5:24: DaBarkspawn: (+)
 * 5:24: Atvelonis: Vote to support User talk:DaBarkspawn#SF:LOCAT for Lore Pages with the changes made in this discussion
 * 5:24: Atvelonis: I don't feel like summarizing that
 * 5:24: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 5:24: Rozty: lol
 * 5:24: DaBarkspawn: (+)
 * 5:24: Rozty: (+)
 * 5:24: TinyClayMan: (+)
 * 5:24: Atvelonis: 4-0-0
 * 5:24: Stygies VIII: (+)
 * 5:24: TinyClayMan: Later we will regret that summary :kappa:
 * 5:24: Atvelonis: @Rupuzioks @Blademaster Jauffre
 * 5:24: Atvelonis: Lol
 * 5:24: Rozty: a summary should be made at some point lol
 * 5:24: Atvelonis: News people you can do it
 * 5:24: Rozty: a problem for our future selves
 * 5:25: Atvelonis: 5-0-0
 * 5:25: Rupuzioks: (=)
 * 5:25: Atvelonis: 5-1-0
 * 5:25: Dwemer35: I accidentally refreshed the page. What are we voting?
 * 5:25: Atvelonis: oh god it's so much
 * 5:25: Atvelonis: basically User_talk:DaBarkspawn#SF:LOCAT_for_Lore_Pages
 * 5:25: Atvelonis: User talk:DaBarkspawn#SF:LOCAT for Lore Pages
 * 5:25: Atvelonis: with some adjustments
 * 5:25: DaBarkspawn: Do you support that Dwemer35 is the best? Say support. :P
 * 5:26: Atvelonis: It would take me like 15 minutes to summarize
 * 5:26: Atvelonis: so uh any last votes?
 * 5:27: Dwemer35: If that's it then (+) from me
 * 5:27: Atvelonis: 6-1-0
 * 5:28: DaBarkspawn: ty
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 * 5:29: Atvelonis: Ok then
 * 5:29: Atvelonis: All done
 * 5:29: Rozty: yay
 * 5:29: DaBarkspawn: \o/
 * 5:29: Rozty: it only took us one hour
 * 5:29: Rozty: and a half or something
 * 5:29: TinyClayMan: 1,5 hours
 * 5:29: Atvelonis: I think our record moot time has been maybe three hours? or two and half perhaps
 * 5:29: Rozty: what was it about
 * 5:29: DaBarkspawn: Ents
 * 5:29: TinyClayMan: Three, I think
 * 5:29: Rozty: was it the one with eso
 * 5:30: Atvelonis: Not sure. I remember some older moots being really damn long though
 * 5:30: Atvelonis: Like 2015 era
 * 5:30: Rozty: ok thats old
 * 5:30: DaBarkspawn: I would guess due to many topics rather than a single topic taking a long time?
 * 5:30: Atvelonis: I think the more recent ones have been a bit more reasonable generally. Maybe we've hit 3 in some of the ESO ones though
 * 5:30: Atvelonis: Well sort of both
 * 5:30: Rozty: because i do remember one about character respawn and essentiality in eso being way too long
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 * 5:31: Atvelonis: I remember one time we were taking so long with a topic that SuperSajuuk decided he would rather just leave and present it as a CT or something then wait for us to finish lol
 * 5:31: Rozty: lmao
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 * 5:31: Atvelonis: o/
 * 5:31: Dwemer35: Hi
 * 5:31: Atvelonis: Well, are there any last-minute topics?
 * 5:31: Atvelonis: They don't need to be scheduled
 * 5:31: Atvelonis: Just things that anyone would like to bring up
 * 5:31: Rozty: oh i think i did have one:
 * 5:31: Atvelonis: Go ahead then
 * 5:32: The Beautiful Princess Ashley: completely forgot there'd be a moot lol
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 * 5:33: Rozty: i saw frisy adding eso map images with mod content, basically just icons showing where the crystals are located in the map. since its from a mod, then it normally wouldnt be allowed, but the icon is the same one used in the game, and it only benefits people to see it
 * 5:33: Rozty: was thinking that we could use these images, since we already edit a lot of other ones, like in morrowind
 * 5:33: Atvelonis: Skyshards?
 * 5:33: Rozty: yeah
 * 5:33: Atvelonis: Are those the only icons it adds?
 * 5:34: TinyClayMan: I have seen some subpages with maps where icons were added manually using source code
 * 5:34: Rozty: dont know what my mind was thinking when i typed crystals
 * 5:34: TinyClayMan: I prefer those
 * 5:34: Atvelonis: Auridon has one of those maps
 * 5:34: Rozty: the specific addon yes
 * 5:34: DaBarkspawn: FTR, I don't use mods to create maps
 * 5:34: Atvelonis: no
 * 5:34: DaBarkspawn: they are all from the kit
 * 5:34: DaBarkspawn: err, set
 * 5:34: Atvelonis: well it wasn't auridon but it was one of them
 * 5:35: Rozty: that auridon map too small now that i see it
 * 5:35: Stygies VIII: oop I forgot to look at chat
 * 5:35: Stygies VIII: what is going on?
 * 5:35: Atvelonis: No it was a whole section
 * 5:35: Atvelonis: ah yes
 * 5:35: Atvelonis: Skyshard#Auridon
 * 5:36: Rozty: wtf we had something like that?
 * 5:36: Atvelonis: Crusader set it up a long time ago and then didn't finish the other ones
 * 5:36: Rozty: oof
 * 5:37: TinyClayMan: a) Make it like Crusader did
 * 5:37: Rozty: well, rather than setting up templates for it, wouldnt it be better to just use the already existing addon
 * 5:37: TinyClayMan: b) Make it like Skyrim location maps
 * 5:37: Rozty: oof
 * 5:37: TinyClayMan: What is that emoji
 * 5:37: Atvelonis: b) lol
 * 5:37: DaBarkspawn: I don't really see a difference between using a mod to place the markers on the map and using a graphics program to put the same images on.
 * 5:38: Stygies VIII: same
 * 5:38: Atvelonis: It's not a graphics program
 * 5:38: Atvelonis: The generation here is through coordinates
 * 5:38: DaBarkspawn: I was speaking of the end result
 * 5:39: Atvelonis: Template:AuridonSkyshards
 * 5:39: Atvelonis: Well right but the idea is that the maps shouldn't have modded content on them in general
 * 5:39: Atvelonis: And I don't think that Skyshards are relevant to location maps per se
 * 5:39: Rozty: the proposed end resutl:
 * 5:39: Atvelonis: Only on the skyshard page
 * 5:39: Rozty: yeah thats true
 * 5:39: Stygies VIII: sorry but I should go to sleep
 * 5:39: Stygies VIII: so byw
 * 5:39: DaBarkspawn: I'll defer on that, I don't know enough about the game to say
 * 5:39: Stygies VIII: bye*
 * 5:39: Rozty: cya o/
 * 5:39: DaBarkspawn: adios!
 * 5:40: Dwemer35: bye
 * 5:40: Atvelonis: o/
 * 5:40: TinyClayMan: o7
 * 5:40: The Beautiful Princess Ashley: i've got no idea what skyshards are and i gotta sleep too, so bye
 * 5:40: Rozty: well, if we arent using the addon and we need maps for that page, we would be using the icon from the game in order to make the maps ourselves
 * 5:40: Atvelonis: dropping like flies
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 * 5:41: Atvelonis: Our media policy allows us to edit images as needed, and to make graphical representations of things
 * 5:41: Rozty: and thats a lot of work for the same, and possibly worse result
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 * 5:41: Atvelonis: We just don't want to allow mod content because if we allow it in this one situation then we kind of have to allow it elsewhere
 * 5:41: Atvelonis: Otherwise it would be a double standard
 * 5:41: Rozty: yeah, that's true
 * 5:41: TinyClayMan: If we use skyshards from addons we can use book locations from addonz
 * 5:41: TinyClayMan: *addons
 * 5:41: TinyClayMan: As an example
 * 5:42: Atvelonis: Honestly I think this Skyshards thing is minor enough to not even worry about replacing those maps because no one is ever going to do it. But I also don't want to condone it in the future because it isn't relevant to location pages
 * 5:42: Rozty: oof its already spiraling out of control (kappa)
 * 5:42: Rozty: lets keep the shards out of location maps, but using the addon would still help a lot with completing that skyshard location page
 * 5:43: Atvelonis: Sure
 * 5:43: Rozty: since the result would be exactly the same
 * 5:43: Atvelonis: vote?
 * 5:43: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 5:43: Rozty: (+)
 * 5:43: TinyClayMan: (+)
 * 5:43: Atvelonis: 3-0-0
 * 5:43: Atvelonis: lol what a crowd
 * 5:43: Atvelonis: @Dwemer @Dab @Rupuzioks
 * 5:44: Dwemer35: (+)
 * 5:44: Rupuzioks: (+)
 * 5:44: Atvelonis: 5-0-0
 * 5:44: DaBarkspawn: (=)
 * 5:44: Atvelonis: 5-1-0
 * 5:44: Atvelonis: Ok done with that topic then
 * 5:44: Atvelonis: I kinda sorta have to go soon so if there is nothing else urgent I imagine it can wait until next month
 * 5:44: Atvelonis: Final thoughts?
 * 5:45: Rozty: im all good
 * 5:45: TinyClayMan: Same
 * 5:45: DaBarkspawn: I'm done
 * 5:45: DaBarkspawn: Because a well done medium is rare.
 * 5:45: Atvelonis: Alright. Then by the power vested in me by Todd Howard and Jimbo Wales, I hereby declare this moot to be finished.