User talk:Blademaster Jauffre/Archive 3

Re: Delphine
Hello, I removed that link, because there are two separate Innkeeper Delphine and Grandmaster Delphine cards. They are already in the list, Delphine (Legends) could be a lore page for the game, but I guess Delphine article could be rewritten for that purpose. You can ask Atvelonis what is better. --Rupuzioks (talk) 11:42, July 1, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Legends Images
Sure, I can get the images. If you want to get them yourself, just go to Legends-Decks.com. That place has the entire list of cards from the base game as well as the Heroes of Skyrim Set. That's where I get my information and pictures. --Vincentius1 (talk) 00:58, July 3, 2017 (UTC)

HTML Tags
Hey,

I just wanted to run by you when you use stuff like " " you need to use a tag with it too. Even if it looks like in preview and on the page (I checked, it looks right on my browser anyway) you still need to close of tags with, like all HTML tags. If you don't know what I mean, just message me and I'll elaborate. The problem with it is not all browsers are smart enough to catch what you mean, and as a result for some people leaving the tag open means you're putting the entire page under center. So just a reminder, don't forget to close all of your center tags with " " Thanks, and like I said if you need me to I will elaborate, if I don't answer ASAP I'm either tired or busy, or probably both.


 * It's fine. It's better that somebody tried and made a mistake or two than nobody trying at all.

Couple more tips, while it's on my mind
Hi again. I'm here to disturb your existence as much as possible.

I'd normally say something as simple as this over in chat but I wanted to recommend you use LegendsCardImages on your image uploads. It categorizes the images automatically (why I edited your images yesterday.) Also, Legends isn't Public Domain, as the game is owned by Bethesda - The licencing is also handled by the LegendsCardImages template.

Oh, and one last tip, I honestly completely hate how you're doing a pages created list (as that's going to probably get huge over time, and nobody is going to actually read all of the pages, but that's just my opinion) but I do want to say if you're going to use it to make use of the  ""  tag. It makes everything a lot neater and more compressed, especially if you also bulletted each page. Mind you that you can also do that on huge lists on the wiki too, since I'm sure you'll find one eventually. Not trying to exactly tell you what to do with that, but I do want to try to help out occasionally even if I waste your time with reading all of this. Thanks.


 * I'm not entirely sure where you're having issues with lists, unless you're trying to make the larger texts into lists (which is a horrible formatting idea.) Since I don't really know where you're having issues, I'm going to include in this message some source, and if that doesn't do what you want we can figure it out from there. I do want to get across the reason I'm saying this is to find an easy example of how to do this if you ever need it on a list in mainspace. Just saying. Hope this helps.
 * {|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="80%" data-expandtext="show" data-collapsetext="hide"

!Click expand to show source

(While I'm on a break, I will still contribute to the wiki, but less so in references and the like.)

Elder Scrolls fan, started playing with Oblivion, now I own Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, The Elder Scrolls Online, The Elder Scrolls: Legends, The Infernal City and Lord of Souls, I try my best to keep this place canon.

"Justice can be harsh, but it is still justice."

- Esbern

"For Emperor and Empire"

- Wulf

I do know quite a lot about the lore if I may say so myself. Of the things I'm not that familiar with, I tend to be able to grasp the basics.

Without the Legion both Skyrim and Tamriel is doomed to fall to the Dominion. I have an entire list as to why the Stormcloaks are wrong, which can be found a little further down.

As an Empire supporter how could I join any other side than the Covenant, who wishes to preserve the Empire rather than destroy it?

Pages I have created

 * Dagger of Sparks
 * Sky Tower
 * The Squall Gate
 * The Storm Gate
 * General Jonna
 * March of Thirst
 * General Decianus
 * Corinthe Sanctuary
 * Imperial Legion Commander
 * Fort Commander
 * East Empire Mercenary
 * East Empire Dockmaster
 * East Empire Dockworker
 * Colovian Signet Ring
 * Askar
 * Red Dragon Crown
 * Death Certificate
 * Muffin (Morrowind)
 * Augurius Bucco
 * Company Guard
 * Imperial Archer (Morrowind)
 * Imperial Archer (Skyrim)
 * Imperial Mage
 * Imperial Legion Battlemage (Oblivion)
 * Imperial Belt
 * Captain Priscus (Online)
 * The Bastion Tower
 * Imperial Officer
 * Nord War Horn
 * Imperial Watch Key
 * Dremora Channeler
 * Ra Gada Envoy
 * Second Legion
 * Far East Fleet
 * Weak Nightmask
 * Nightmask
 * Strong Nightmask
 * Virgar The Red
 * Treaty of Stros M'kai
 * Soul Sword
 * Regulus Sardecus
 * Guard (Redguard)
 * Captain Drusus
 * Captain Virgilus
 * The Forgotten Hero
 * The Culling
 * Orb of Vearmina (Legends)
 * Shadow Legion
 * Third Legion
 * Legate Cassia
 * General Pottreid
 * Tiber Wars
 * On the Tel Var Stones, Vol. I
 * On the Tel Var Stones, Vol. II
 * On the Tel Var Stones, Vol. III
 * On the Tel Var Stones, Vol. IV
 * Fifteenth Legion
 * House Sathil
 * Ilver Indarys
 * Ione
 * General Takar
 * Mazgar gra Yagash
 * Mountain Watch
 * Solus Vertilus's Journal
 * Knight Commander Panthius
 * Imperial Legion (Redguard)
 * Venom's Sanctuary Marginalia
 * Letter of Credit (Daggerfall)
 * The Mummy's Finger
 * A Plea for Help
 * Windhelm Military Camp
 * Captain Jena Apinia
 * Lieutenant Mervial
 * Pious Intervention
 * Erina Glaucia
 * Antus Glaucia
 * Beran Larocque
 * Litany of Blood Fulfilled
 * Litany of Blood (Book)
 * Announcer Yeldan
 * Traditional Nordic Duel
 * Knights of the Eight
 * Rubedite Armor
 * The Sublime Brazier (Book)
 * Legion Commander (Online)
 * Daedric Cuirass (Daggerfall)
 * In Defense of Prince Hubalajad
 * Trove Scamp
 * Hero of Sovngarde
 * Blessing of Talos (Knights of the Nine)
 * Hawkmoth Legion
 * The Natives
 * Forsworn Rebellion
 * Knight of the Hour
 * Chanter of Akatosh
 * King Barynia
 * The Claws
 * The Eclipse
 * Order of the Watch
 * Order of Doctrine and Ordination
 * Order of Inquisition
 * Order of War
 * Imperial Guard Division
 * Penitus Oculatus Agent (Skyrim)
 * Journal of Dranos Velador
 * Dream Journal Of Firilanya
 * West Weald Legion
 * Journey to Sovngarde
 * Alduin (Legends)
 * Daedric Broadsword
 * Daedric Mace (Daggerfall)
 * Daedric Wakazashi
 * Daedric Dai-katana (Daggerfall)
 * Lava Atronach (Legends)
 * Conjuration Tutor
 * Colovian Trooper
 * On the Spirits of the Hel Shira
 * Prized Chicken
 * Stormcloak Camp
 * Stormcloak Vanguard
 * Inspiring Stormcloak
 * Stormcloak Avenger
 * Jarl Balgruuf (Legends)
 * Solitude Stalwart
 * Priest of the Eight
 * Legate Rikke (Legends)
 * Imperial Camp (Legends)
 * Snowhawk Detachment
 * Praetorian Commander
 * Mentor of the Watch
 * Emperor Titus Mede II
 * Experimental Scroll
 * Rising Legate
 * Cover
 * Shadow Lane
 * Snow Fox (Legends)
 * Imperial Grunt
 * Stormcloak Battalion
 * Pack Wolf
 * Young Wolf
 * Uncaged Wolf
 * Wolf Cage
 * Legion Praefect
 * Arrest
 * Lay Down Arms

Pages largely edited thanks to content I found ingame

 * Imperial Legion Archer
 * Imperial Legion Captain
 * Imperial Legion Messenger
 * Conquest of Hammerfell
 * Cheydinhal
 * Imperial Legion
 * Tillrani Snow-Bourne
 * Skyrim Civil War
 * Arthago

Civil War
In the following 'categories' I will explain why I joined the Empire, or rather, why I think the Stormcloaks are wrong.

1. Alduins Return.

The Stormcloaks completed the final step of the prophecy, causing Alduin's return.

When the Sons of Skyrim would spill their own blood. -Trailer

When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding. -Alduin's wall

2. You being sent to the chopping block.

The Empire was searching for Stormcloaks, you just happened to be there with them at the wrong time. The soldiers at Helgen think that way too.

''Damn you Stormcloaks, Skyrim was fine until you came along, Empire was nice and lazy. If they hadn't been looking for you, I could've stolen that horse and been halfway to Hammerfell.'' -Lokir

Don't let those Stormcloaks get away!-Imperial Captain

''Stormcloaks! Get them!'' -Imperial Soldier

'''3. The civil war. ''' Upon the murder of Torygg (yes, it was murder) the civil war (truly) started, this could have been prevented had Ulfric just asked. In reality the Civil War ‘’started’’ during the Markarth Incident, which is also to blame on Ulfric.

‘’A challenge of honor is a public declaration of a scandal against a private part. Only nobles fight duels, and the higher the rank, the stronger the obligation. Law and custom despises dishonorable duelists. If the victim was bullied, intimidated, or goaded by a stronger party with suspect motives, magistrates often convict the stronger party of foul murder.’’ – Okan-Shei (and basically every other NPC), Morrowind

Ulfric’s challenge by itself was goading and intimidating, because Ulfric knew that if Torygg had rejected, a new Moot would’ve had to been called, or Ulfric would’ve still been able to start his civil war. Ulfric also had suspect motives, trying to usurp the throne, as the Empire puts it.

'''4. Families being torn apart. ''' By starting the Civil War, the Stormcloaks and Imperials got support of famillies, these soldiers die in the war, making their families lose heart. Riften and Solitude both have one of these families, the Snow-Shods and the Morrard family. Vulwulf is often in the Bee and Barb to drink away his sadness.

‘’The Imperial Soldiers cut her down… killed her like a dog and left her body to rot in the mud.’’ -Vulwulf Snow-Shod

‘’She died out there, only having tended to the wounded soldiers for a few months. We never even found her body… the Empire burned all the dead.’’ -Nura Snow-Shod

‘’I told her. I told her the imperial army would kill her. That this was war of Jarls and Imperial Generals and we had no part in it. She just wouldn’t hear it. It was brave of you to come to me with this. I can’t thank you for it, not for this, but you have done me a service.’’ -Angeline Morrard

'''5 The Thalmor coming to Skyrim. ''' The Markarth Incident was staged by the Thalmor and Ulfric, the Thalmor forcing Ulfric's arrest resulted in Ulfric becoming uncooperative to their direct contact, but it did give the Thalmor an excuse to come to Skyrim.

‘’Forsworn had taken over Markarth, and Ulfric and his men drove them out. Empire promised they'd be free to worship Talos afterwards. Pity no one told the Elves. Whole group of those Thalmor came and they demanded Ulfric's arrest.’’ -Cedran

‘’After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset. The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.’’ -Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak

‘’Then the elves found out about it. We were forced to arrest all of them.’’ -Jarl Igmund

'''6. A loss of men and resources for the next Great War. ''' Thanks to the civil war, coffers of Holds are being thrown empty and people (soldiers) are being killed. It’s notable that the trading hubs and major cities are currently having light coffers, Whiterun, Riften, Windhelm and Solitude.

"Our coffers are nearly empty. I can scarcely afford to pay the guards, and we need every one of them in these troubled times. You'll have to make do with what we have, Proventus." -Jarl Balgruuf the Greater (To Proventus Avenicci)

‘’My heart goes out to them. If only our coffers were deeper, I could protect them as they were my own family.’’ -Jarl Laila Law-Giver

‘’First we’ll need to refill our coffers and stockpile stone and wood. The war took a heavy toll on Windhelm’s resources.’’ -Jarl Brunwulf Free-Winter

‘’As you know, Solitude’s coffers are much depleted by the war efforts.’’ -Jarl Elisif the Fair (To Thane Erikur)

7. Friends becoming enemies. Clan Gray-Mane and Battle-Born used to be friends, until the Civil War started, the Stormcloaks are to blame for this, since they started the war.

‘’There was love between our families. For generations. Now, there is only enmity.’’ -Bergritte Battle-Born

‘’Aye, we used to be fast friends, though it was long ago.’’ -Vignar Gray-Mane

8. Caused the Forsworn to be aggresive again.

The Forsworn were peaceful rulers when they ruled over Markarth. When the Stormcloaks came to reclaim ‘’their land’’, the Forsworn became aggresive again.

The Forsworn Kingdom was quite peaceful for those 2 years they were in power. -The Bear of Markarth

9. Cause of racism in Windhelm.

Ulfric does not only create, he also enforces racist policies.

Did you know it was Ulfrics decree that forbade us from living within the city walls? -Scouts-Many-Marshes ''I'm a dark elf and I live in Windhelm, so yes, I live in the Gray Quarter. You must be new around here, or you'd know they don't let my kind live outside that slum.'' -<Aval Atheron

10. Only protect Nords.

Only when Nords get attacked does Ulfric send aid. This is even proven by the dead Khajiit caravan at Steamcrag Camp and Refugees' Rest being overrun by trolls, with two carts burried under the snow. (Also further proving Ulfric’s racism)

‘’Whenever a group of marauders attacks a Nord village, Ulfric is the first to sound the horn and send the men. But a group of Dark Elf refugees gets ambushed? A group of Argonians or a Khajiit caravan? No troops. No investigation. Nothing.’’ –Brunwulf Free-Winter

11. Only care about themselves. Jarl Laila says when you first enter Riften that if a Dragon were to attack the city, and Riften falls, she should be saved instead of her people.

‘’If Riften should fall, it’s only right that its leader be spared.’’ -Jarl Laila Law-Giver

12. Discrimination against magic users. Korir shows clear disdain towards the College and, when the Imperials take over Winterhold, he wishes that the population of Winterhold freezes to death.

‘’It wasn’t enough that the College still stands, now the damnable Empire has Winterhold. I hope they all freeze to death.’’ -Jarl Korir

‘’Look around you. Winterhold is in this state because of those damned mages.’’ -Jarl Korir

‘’What’s there to tell? It’s mostly gone now, thanks to those damned mages in the College.’’ -Jarl Korir, about Winterhold

13. A fool as Jarl. Skald the Elder claims the Empire is to blame for the Dragons returning, and that if the Stormcloaks get rid of the Empire, the Dragons will leave. Needless to say, his claim is wrong, since Alduin needs to be slain for the Dragons to leave.

‘’As soon as we drive the Empire out of Skyrim, the dragons will vanish.’’ -Jarl Skald the Elder

14. Assassination attempt on a neutral Jarl.

The Stormcloaks try to assassinate Jarl Balgruuf, who is neutral in the Civil War, neither Imperial, nor Stormcloak. In Ulfric’s ‘’If you’re not with me, you’re against me’’ head, Balgruuf would be an enemy.

''Take your pick. Dragons, Stormcloak assassins, ambitious and unscrupulous nobles... Sometimes I think his own children want him dead. And those are just the physical threats. Assaults on his sanity are another matter entirely. Every day, he deals with obsequious functionaries and incompetent bureaucrats. Sadly, I'm not allowed to eliminate them. Well, not yet, anyways.''﻿ -Irileth

And if you think that Irileth lies about the Stormcloak assassins, she has taken down many would-be assassins.

...more than one would be assassin has met his end at the tip of my blade. -Irileth

Not to forget, there’s an ingame ID for a Stormcloak soldier in Whiterun Guard armor, which would be the perfect disguise for an assassin. (ID: 000E962C)

15. Ulfric regretting the Rebellion

Possibly the best reason not to side with the Stormcloaks is that Ulfric regrets the rebellion. In fact, he even says it’s the fate of the rebellion to lose.

‘’Skyrim was betrayed, the blood of her sons spilled in doomed struggle against fate. And so in death, too late, I learn the truth – fed by war, so waxed the power of Alduin, World-Eater – wisdom now useless. By gods’ jest in this grim mist together snared, Stormcloak and Imperial, we wander hopeless, waiting for succor.’’ -Ulfric Stormcloak

Main Elder Scrolls Wikia goal(s)

 * 1) Making sure that people realise that only things used by Bethesda or published by Bethesda should be used as lore on the wiki. (reference to the MK fanboying that's going on here) Note: I do not hate unconfirmed sources, nor MK (who writes most of them) I just hate the fact that fanon or fanfic gets treated as canon lore. (Or lore itself for that matter)
 * 2) Getting to know exactly how things work around here. (Despite being here for a decent amount of time I'm not ashamed to admit that some thing are litterally unknown to me. Both in the lore as well as in editing. I have no clue if there's a page explaining how to post certain things, but I'm willing to learn.)
 * 3) Making sure that speculations get removed. (Though I may have [without realising it] added some speculations in the past I'm now focused on removing speculations.)
 * 4) Referencing articles. (Atvelonis has informed me that the referencing on the wiki is poor, I've made it a minor goal of mine to get more accurate references, or references in general.)

Orcs
If you want to know some lore on the Orcs that this wiki doesn't accept, feel free to continue.

Despite being called "mer," the Orcs are either beastfolk,         or, as other sources state, a type of elf, the closest translation of their name being "Pariah Folk."


 * }

Re: A Fandom User
A lot of the time it is up to your judgement. In this case, it seems more likely that the user has created the page as an act of vandalism as opposed to adding fanon without realising. In that case, feel free to add it to VIP and an admin can ban him (only admins can ban users). This is the best thing to do if there is a one off, vandalising edit.

If a user is spam vandalising a single page, then it is usually best to notify a patroller (or indeed an admin) as they have rollback rights. This allows them to very quickly revert a large string of edits by a single user. You can attempt to manually keep undoing the vandals edits, but that can be hard and tedious to do for a user without tools.

If however it is an honest mistake, then it's best to undo it and leave it be. Honest mistakes can be things like accidentally adding a single character, page-blanking can sometimes happen due to a bug with visual editor, someone adding content with incredibly bad grammar, or adding fanon to the wiki (and they were unaware at the time that that's inappropriate).

Hope that helps,

Bronkiin (talk) 21:43, July 8, 2017 (UTC)

Heroes of Skyrim
Hi Jauffre,

Just wanted to let you know that if you're planning on creating more Heroes of Skyrim card articles, be sure to add the Legends: Heroes of Skyrim category to them. Thanks!—CarloV3r (talk) 17:04, July 17, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Sandbox
Hi Jauffre,

I decided to be rude and answer the question you asked Aramithius. No, there are no rules to creating a sandbox (user sub page). Everyone can create one to work on big projects, small projects, etc. You can name it whatever you like, but the most practical (in my opinion) would be User:Blademaster Jauffre/Sandbox.—CarloV3r (talk) 16:26, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Aldmer
Hey Jauffre,

When it comes to a page like the Aldmer page, I would have to devote a lot of time to it. Like how I've done the regional pages. I'm not gonna lie, just thinking about editing it is intimidating to me. I know it sounds weird but, this is, to me on a larger scale than anything I've done before. What I can do is at least add references to the page and eventually I will get used to it and maybe start to add stuff. I will see what I can do though, thanks for letting me know.

P.S. Thank you for that comment about my article making skills. I really like knowing that my articles are interesting to read. --Vincentius1 (talk) 01:38, July 27, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Sandbox
Hi Jauffre,

No need for permissions or anything in terms of building a sandbox, or other pages. You just put your user subdomain into the URL, and then just add anything after a /. I have /Sandbox, /CHIM, /Amaranth, whatever I need in terms of pages that I need to spend more than one session on before they are in a publishable state.

Aramithius (talk) 07:45, July 27, 2017 (UTC)

Blood Harvesting
Hi Jauffre,

Your edit summary for reverting is correct, Septimus does indeed say that Dwemer blood is needed. The fact that he says this directly in dialogue and explains why, means that it ceases to be a point of trivia and is instead a statement of in-game fact. So I removed it not because I disagreed with your reasoning, but because the statement did not fall under the remit of trivia in the first place.

Bronkiin (talk) 20:20, July 27, 2017 (UTC)

Re:Dialogue
I'll unlock it temporarily. Let me know when you're finished.—CarloV3r (talk) 16:25, July 31, 2017 (UTC)

Images
Hei Jauffre

Thank you for adding the Battle of the Red Ring and Great War images. I love them, especially the Great War one. Anywho, I just wanted to let you know that I renamed them so that they are a bit more descriptive. Cheers The Cat Master (talk) 15:46, August 1, 2017 (UTC)

Keep it up
—CarloV3r (talk) 11:33, August 3, 2017 (UTC)

Messages
Next time you plan on editing messages I leave on peoples talk pages, ask my permssion first. The Cat Master (talk) 19:51, August 5, 2017 (UTC)


 * No problem The Cat Master (talk) 20:04, August 5, 2017 (UTC)

Re: New format per moot consensus
We decided at the moot yesterday that the, , and  templates will be in a new line after the infobox. It looks a bit cleaner, and i think some newbie editors were kinda confused by the old format. The Cat Master (talk) 01:07, August 7, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Sports
I'm upstate at the moment, so my connection is kinda spotty. I'll take a look at the sources tonight when there's less traffic slowing me down. —Atvelonis (talk) 19:09, August 8, 2017 (UTC)

Re:Dueling
I'm not going to bother with the French version because I don't fucking speak French. I don't have the French version so even if I did speak French, I can't verify if what you say is true even if I did have it. And I shouldn't have to, all books should mean the same bloody thing in any language. Since this is an English wiki, we should go by what it says in the English book, which explicitly says "struck down" which can be interpreted as death or defeat, leaving it ambiguous at best.

Even so, Torygg's death can leave doubt that it wasn't murder as even in Jorunn's duel, one stipulation legalizing the sparing of his opponent's life was that Fildgor was able to verbalize a surrender. Torygg was knocked down and quickly stabbed in the heart with a sword so their circumstances are different in that Torygg didn't technically yield.

There are evidence that these duels are lethal, from instances of other duels where competitors died to freaking NPCs who were there who believe Ulfric was in the right. The Nords very culture towards duels and their own games are lethal and exalt near death experiences.

Your stereptype of Roggvir is of no consequence, he's a Nord, he knows Nord rules of duels since it is part of his culture. Even his grieving sister Greta believed Roggvir let Ulfric go because he won the duel in the traditional old way meaning nord duels could be fatal. If you talk to her about him, "Are you here to talk about my brother? Do you think his execution was justified?" You can tell her that you think he was a traitor, though she will respond with anger: "Then you didn't know Roggvir, and you have no idea what it means to be a Nord of Skyrim! He did the honorable thing, even when he knew it would cost him everything. My brother was the best man in Solitude." If you say that no, you think he was a honorable man, she'll reply with "Then like Roggvir, you're a Nord at heart. It's hard for many of the people here to understand. I think Aldis understands. I don't think I could have stayed here if anyone else had..."

Alternatively, you can ask her who her brother is and she'll answer, "Roggvir. He opened a gate and they executed him for it. He opened a gate and the wrong man rode out of it. If that man hadn't been Ulfric Stormcloak. If Ulfric hadn't killed High King Torygg... But it was Ulfric. And he did kill the High King, in honorable combat. My brother refused to allow the the [sic] Imperials to take revenge for the deed. So now he's dead." Again, you have two options, either saying that Roggvir was a traitor or that he did what he thought was right, though her response will be the same as above. If Roggvir is biased, how is it that this woman who has nothing to gain speaks that Roggvir knows what he's talking about?

So why would I take all this evidence and ignore it for your interpretation of a French version of the game I have never seen and your history of spinning half-truths to demonize Ulfric Stormcloak. I know I'm not the only one who thinks you've been quite biased in your articles because you are a well known Imperial Legion fanboy in this wiki. I'm sorry but nothing I've seen of your evidence is acceptable to me as objective enough to support your statements.(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 19:10, August 8, 2017 (UTC))


 * Although the French version of the game is canonical, we rarely use information from the game published in a different language. There's always something lost in translation, literally—it's often impossible to carry over the nuances of metaphors or implications through to an entirely different language. English to French isn't too rough, but I would still be hesitant to cite the French version unless necessary. In either case, the wording is vague enough that I would leave it open to interpretation.


 * That said, I would take Greta's dialogue with a grain of salt: even if she doesn't specifically have anything to gain from speaking highly of Roggvir, her position as Roggvir's brother is a bit of a conflict of interest all the same. I'm not sure how you reached the conclusion that Roggvir personally witnessed Torygg's death: if he were in the Blue Palace at the time, it would not have been possible for him to simultaneously open the gate to let Ulfric out.


 * I'm baffled that both of you still consider yourselves unbiased in the civil war debate at this point, but regardless, your personal interpretations do not belong on the mainspace proper. Generally, if you see yourself using phrases like "it is possible that..." or "this could be interpreted as..." to a trivia point, you should probably not publish that edit. I'm going to clean up these pages now; please do not revert my edits or they will be locked. —Atvelonis (talk) 21:38, August 9, 2017 (UTC)


 * As I said before, the translation does not offer the same level of accuracy as the English source does. When you're getting this semantic with your interpretations, the original source is the only text sufficiently reliable from which you can derive information to place on the article. Regarding your second point, I would tend to think that the article should cover non-political duels, too. The source notes that Geirmund was "honor-bound" to accept the duel, meaning it's the same principle as the political duels (whereas the arena battles are simply fights between Nords, so that has no reason to be on the article). Perhaps find a way to note somewhere else in the article that these traditional duels of honor can apply to people other than just Jarls, because that is what that source indicates. —Atvelonis (talk) 02:35, August 11, 2017 (UTC)


 * Yeah, something like that could work. —Atvelonis (talk) 21:13, August 11, 2017 (UTC)

Re: A question
I don't own ESO, sorry. Poisoned apples (talk) 00:13, August 9, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the Sweetroll!
Thanks Jauffre,

Its nice to be appreciated for contributing just a little bit to the Wiki. Although, I must say, it is kind of depressing that it takes twice as much time to do even the most basic quest in than to write a guide for it. JPDurzel (talk) 10:33, August 12, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Welcome!
Hey Jauffre (Frankly i happen to be dutch, just like you ^^)

Thank you for the warm welcome, it`s much appreciated!

Although i would really like to get started on both editing and writing articles, i still need to grasp all the fundamentals of learning how to properly use everything. As you can tell i am a dry sponge, ready to soak up all the water. I hope it`s okay if i first try to start learning and then giving it a try on the real pages, since i despise making errors.

P.S.

i`m not sure about what Atveltonis meant about the sandbox, i`m too afraid to touch it. Maby you could give me a compressed version of how it works?

Many thanks,

Frytuurchef (talk) 12:04, August 12, 2017 (UTC)

Question
Heya Jauffre,

Would you mind coming to the chat when it best suits you? I'd like to talk to you about something. Cheers,—CarloV3r (talk) 15:10, August 12, 2017 (UTC)

Re : Sandbox
Hey Jauffre,

Thank you for the explanation, it was very helpful. I tried something out and i was wonderding if you could examine it and letting me know if i did it correctly without damaging the real wiki. link : http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/User:Frytuurchef/Sandbox?venotify=created

Frytuurchef (talk) 15:21, August 12, 2017 (UTC)

Corrected spelling/grammar
Hello again Jauffre,

While i was reading your beautiful profile summary, i noticed a small grammatical mistake.

I bolded the text location.

Take a look :

Main Elder Scrolls Wikia goal(s)Edit

Making sure that people realise that only things used by Bethesda or published by Bethesda should be used as lore on the wiki. (reference to the MK fanboying that's going on here) Note: I do not hate unconfirmed sources, nor MK (who writes most of them) I just hate the fact that fanon or fanfic gets treated as canon lore. (Or lore itself for that matter) Getting to know exactly how things work around here. (Despite being here for a decent amount of time I'm not ashamed to admit that some thing are litterally unknown to me. Both in the lore as well as in editing. I have no clue if there's a page explaining how to post certain things, but I'm willing to learn.)

You miss one S (some things) since you are using : are which makes it plural. I didn`t touch it because i`m too afraid to hehe (you gotta do the hard work yourself on this one)

Sorry for the disturbance for such a minor thing.

Frytuurchef (talk) 16:32, August 12, 2017 (UTC)

Chat
Hey Jauffre, if you're around could you come to chat? If you see this hours later, don't worry about it.

Bronkiin (talk) 11:40, August 26, 2017 (UTC)

Imperial City
Hi Jauffre, Battle pages are particularly inconvenient to document properly in an encyclopaedia. While it is important that Battle for the Imperial City has a page, it is no exception to this difficulty. The first thing to point out is simply the title of the page. Is it referred to as "The Battle of/for the Imperial City" in game? If not, the title needs to be more descriptive and "Campaign for the Imperial City" becomes more accurate. So unless you have an in-game source to attest that the name of the conflict is "The Battle for..." then Carlo will change it to "Campaign".

Equally, and here I'm asking for input as opposed to dictating how something should be done, do you think it should be under the "battle" category? Firstly, it is not a single event but a series of them. Secondly, I'd have thought the "battles" category would be used to categorise named, definitive battles in the TES universe ie. "The Battle of Sancre Tor" (named, documented) and not "The Battle for Dawnguard Castle" (not named or documented). The reason for maintaining the "battles" category for it I'd suppose is simplicity and convenience.

Our lore pages are particularly poor, so thanks for working on them. You'll appreciate that there are many subtleties and pedantics to be settled over the whole thing though.

Regards,

Bronkiin (talk) 17:30, August 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * Hiya Jauffre,


 * You seem to have forgotten to add a source for the "MOI" reference on the "Battle for the Imperial City" article (Since merged with Alliance War). Could you add a source to it? Thanks.—CarloV3r (talk) 18:20, August 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * Rupuzioks has since fixed it, but you forgot to add a source to your "MOI" reference. Instead of using " ," you simply used ."—CarloV3r (talk) 10:50, August 29, 2017 (UTC)

Unique Dialogue
"Isn't all dialogue unique?" It isn't actually. All characters have a generic dialogue type. For some NPCs, that's all they'll have. "hmmm..." "yes?" "What?". That's just for future reference. In Clivia's case, the correct formatting is to have just "Dialogue", not unique dialogue.

Bronkiin (talk) 23:33, August 28, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Lucien Lachance
Well, I was actually thinking of adding those, haha. I was wondering, because there are different dialogue options (Like "Gasp! Who are you?", "[Say mothing]"), how do you get his different responses to those? Like do you have to reload to choose the next dialogue option? Probably sounds like a stupid question, but considering I play on a PS3, I don't have access to audio files and such :/

Poisoned apples (talk) 21:27, August 30, 2017 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, I'm way past that quest in my current playthrough, I just did Purification. Plus I have multiple art portfolios that I'm behind on, so I might not be on here until October or November, sorry. But if I do find time, I would like to help out. (Doesn't have to be Dark Brotherhood related either, lol) -- Poisoned apples (talk) 22:18, August 30, 2017 (UTC)

Hide note
Hey Jauffre. I probably should have told you when you visited chat but I forgot. First, I do want to say thank you on behalf of the wiki for adding them. The dialogue boxes are really good, and I haven't seen any flaw with them. However, I did notice one thing, you've used Hide in at least one earlier. The wiki is currently trying to get rid of Hide, although it's not a very big rush. The problem with the template is that it doesn't work on mobile, which makes up a large portion of our traffic, or something around that (Atv has the exact quote, he made the decision.) It's no big thing to mind, just in the future try to leave Hide out of the formatting.

Since I'm sure the question has popped in your mind, how would you format it now, I'll be honest, I don't exactly know. You could keep using Hide if you really wanted, but it would cause more work. I'd recommend maybe just doing something like this:

"First quote"
 * Disposition A
 * Person A "Hello"
 * Person B "Good, you?"
 * Disposition B
 * Person A "Your dumb"
 * Person B "It's your'e"
 * Person C "You're both dumb"

That's just an idea. I'm honestly not sure what to tell you. If you want to discuss it more feel free to message me or hop in chat, or Carlo etc if you need to. Thanks, have a good day The Crusader of Truth (talk – chat) 00:19, September 1, 2017 (UTC)


 * Correction: we're trying to get rid of Popup, at least in infoboxes and general text (except for transclusions in a few advanced templates). This is because the CSS for it is unable to display anything on mobile, so the data within it is impossible to view. Hide is fine because the tooltip it uses is coded in a way that still works on mobile. The data remains in parentheses after the selected quote, so it is still there for mobile readers to view.


 * However, for something like Neville, I would have to agree with Crusader here. Hide works fine on a technical level, but the above formatting suggestion would likely prove a little easier for readers to follow visually. Good job on the dialogue in general though, people are certainly making use of it. Glad to have you adding so much content! —Atvelonis (talk) 03:54, September 2, 2017 (UTC)

Moot
I will be hosting the moot this afternoon. You suggested OOG references and OOG template. If you can attend and discuss you proposal, that would be great. If you can't then it will be the subject for a later moot. The Cat Master (talk) 09:09, September 2, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Dialogue
That's a pretty readable format, sure. Is the first "Whodunit" tab supposed to be a neutral disposition? If so, it should be tagged as such in the collapsible table to prevent confusion. Otherwise it looks fine. —Atvelonis (talk) 16:53, September 2, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Ariella Septim
Hello, it seems the link is different in The Imperial Library, I just updated reference. You can ask Atvelonis more about it since he created the article. --Rupuzioks (talk) 15:40, September 10, 2017 (UTC)


 * The French link was the one given to me by Tailin Sero (TIL librarian) when he first created the translated page. I think it was just moved to a non-French URL for the sake of simplicity. You can ask him about that in our Discord if you want to learn more about that page. —Atvelonis (talk) 17:58, September 10, 2017 (UTC)

Fishy stick
More specific thanks for all your conversations you've added for the characters involved in this quest. Also, do you think I should nominate you for this? :P Starkiller131 (talk) 19:40, September 14, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, I think your contributions are MOTM worthy. Also, I'm just happy someone is adding content from that quest, because if you hadn't it probably wouldn't have been added! Oh and btw, I've noticed your other contributions. It's all appreciated. Starkiller131 (talk) 19:56, September 14, 2017 (UTC)


 * Regarding nominating you for MOTM. I will start off by saying that you have become a very capable editor in the last two years, your contributions are a benefit this wiki, and I noticed that you will help other users. However, you do have a reputation for being rather hostile to other users who disagree with you. One of the requirements for MOTM is "candidates must be respectful and polite to the community." Now, I have noticed that you have chilled out quite a bit lately, but whenever that user SportsXpert, or whatever his name is comes around things get kinda heated. You meet the qualifications for MOTM as far as your editing skills, but your attitude has ruffled quite a few feathers among the staff and other users since you joined the wiki. If you can maintain your currently chill attitude, you will have a much better chance qualifying for MOTM at a later date. Cheers The Cat Master (talk) 21:55, September 14, 2017 (UTC)

Bravil
Yeah, i am aware that we have pages about Bravil: Daughter of the Niben and that they are the same. Its just that in ESO it was separated into two books, and i felt we should have pages to reflect that. Cheers The Cat Master (talk) 21:08, September 20, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Loremaster's archive
I see any reason not to include the Loremaster's Archive here, as it is official. If you want to start adding some of it, go ahead. The Cat Master (talk) 23:27, September 23, 2017 (UTC)


 * I would suggest that you create a hub page for the topic, preferably with some sort of table displaying the date of publication, author, etc. of each. The leads for each of the individual articles should be tailored to their topic, as an explanation of the archive's purpose belongs on a hub page. However, for the archives in which there is fan input, I would note which parts of it are stated by fans; people often take far too many liberties with their statements in those.


 * Since they're technically out-of-game texts, you should really place a disclaimer stating that on the bottom of the article. Since the texts weren't originally submitted to The Imperial Library we can't use the template TIL here, but you can adapt the disclaimer code on the C0DA article to suit these. It might do to make a more general disclaimer template rather than sorting them by source, so I'll look into that when I get the chance.


 * As a side note, when you upload images you should remember to categorize them based on topic. For in-game images we use a game-type system, for example OnlineLocationImages or SkyrimCharacterImages. These can be used in place of the Zenimage or Bethimage templates that would otherwise be placed in the file description. I have a few examples of what I mean on this page. —Atvelonis (talk) 19:38, September 24, 2017 (UTC)


 * I just happened to notice that you had uploaded a couple of ESO screenshots the other day. That point doesn't have anything to do with the Loremaster's Archive. —Atvelonis (talk) 21:29, September 24, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Dialogue in Morrowind
Hei, Jauffre.

I totally agree that we need more Morrowind dialogue. I am under the belief that a character's dialogue belong in their pages. However, In the case of Okan-Shei, where we have scant information about him, but could potentially have a wall of dialogue that takes up most of the page if it is as in-depth as you say, or a large blank area under the lead if a hide tamplate is used. Therefore, a dialogue page may be a good idea for instances like his page. I guess it's safe to assume that he isn't the only minor character with in-depth non-quest dialogue.

Before making a dialogue page, why don't you try adding the dialogue to his page first, and let me see it when you're done. If it looks like it's too much, then I may say go ahead and start a dialogue page.

I also recommend bringing up how to handle MW dialogue with ATV as well, just in case he has other ideas. Cheers The Cat Master (talk) 01:34, September 27, 2017 (UTC)


 * It's not a good idea to make a separate page just for dialogue, even if it is a lot of text to add: fragmenting information like that is just confusing for readers. Okan-Shei definitely has a lot to say, but it's all worth recording on his page; same idea with any character. —Atvelonis (talk) 17:32, September 27, 2017 (UTC)


 * That's a start, good job. If I recall correctly, though, several options only became available after selecting other ones: this should be reflected in your transcription. For example, Mondblueme recorded a lot of dialogue for characters like Orvas Dren a couple years back using this method. It's important to show the progression from Choice 1 to Choice 2 and to Choice 3 (and so on), partially because readers appreciate a sense of chronology but also because it looks better to have a few indentations than to keep everything on the same level. —Atvelonis (talk) 21:37, September 28, 2017 (UTC)


 * I went through Okan-Shei's dialogue in-game a few months ago and I remember several topics being available from the start. "Morrowind Lore" was probably among them, but I'd have to check. These would be on the first level of the blockquote on the wiki (not indented at all). In-game, clicking on one of these first-level responses might present a couple new topics: these would be on the second level (indented once), underneath the topic that spawned them. Then some of those would have subtopics of their own, and so on. It might be difficult to get this formatted on the wiki properly because the game doesn't indent the hidden options naturally. However, organizing the information this way is extremely valuable to readers. —Atvelonis (talk) 22:07, September 28, 2017 (UTC)


 * Wow! he really does have a lot to say. I don't really care for the blank area under the lead, but there's not much that can be done about that, unless more information can be added about him. If there is any more to be added. Otherwise, ATV is right, the dialogue does belong on that page. Anyway, keep up the good work. Cheers The Cat Master (talk) 23:17, September 28, 2017 (UTC)

Battle For Whiterun
I locked the Battle for Whiterun page due to the edit war between you and Sports72Xtrm. If you two continue to do that in articles you risk a block. The Cat Master (talk) 13:16, September 29, 2017 (UTC)


 * It's not a threat, it's a warning. Whenever you and Sports72Xtrm edit pages, you two tend revert each other's edits. If I didn't lock the page the back and forth reverting could have continued. The edits you contribute are a benefit to the wiki, but when he comes around things can get heated. The Cat Master (talk) 14:19, September 29, 2017 (UTC)


 * In general, I would suggest not reverting any of Sports' edits before coming to an understanding with him and/or an administrator about it: edit wars are best avoided whenever possible. Also, where did you get the 80% casualty statistic? If it's the in-game number of soldiers killed, the number of soldiers in the battle is really more of a gameplay limitation than canonical fact. —Atvelonis (talk) 02:21, September 30, 2017 (UTC)

Unmid dialogue
Nice work on the dialogue, but I have a quick question: where does the first-level quote on Unmid Snow-Shod, "I'm keeping my eye on you." actually occur in-game? If it's just something that he says in passing, at random, it belongs in the ==Quotes== section. Or is it only said after inputting an answer to his original prompt? —Atvelonis (talk) 02:29, September 30, 2017 (UTC)


 * Aha, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. —Atvelonis (talk) 14:22, September 30, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Random encounter dialogue
We actually don't have a Warrior (Character) article for discussion on that particular NPC. If you create the page, I'm sure the dialogue would fit in there. —Atvelonis (talk) 16:24, October 9, 2017 (UTC)

TES novels references
Just let you know that in the last moot changing the references for TES novels was decided. They must include the part and the chapter the info is taken from. This is because people reading an ebook or a book in another language can also locate the information.Amulet of Kings (talk) 13:25, October 10, 2017 (UTC)


 * The thing is that the number of the page is relative, depending on the font size and style the e-book edition has a different amount amount of pages. In addition, you don't need to list all the pages when the information being referenced is in various pages. Amulet of Kings (talk) 14:05, October 11, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Dawnstar
As far as I know, there aren't any other mentions of Danstrar. I think it's just an Ice and Chitin exclusive. --Vincentius1 (talk) 15:07, October 14, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Ghost of Old Hroldan
It would be clearer for readers if the quest dialogue was separated from the regular quotes. That way there's no confusion over when certain dialogue options come up. —Atvelonis (talk) 22:31, October 19, 2017 (UTC)

Re:Daedric Wakazashi
Hey Jauffree,

As far as I know, the names are spelled the same for both games. I changed the name because that was the spelling that I found in the Daggerfall Manual. I'm going to eventually check to make sure, but for now I'm going with the Manual's spelling, since it's the one that appears to most likely be correct. – The Crusader of Truth (talk – chat) 01:30, October 29, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Dialogue
Will do. Now that it's summer, I have more time to play Oblivion. Speaking of which, I don't suppose you still need help with the Whodunit characters? I've started a new game, do you still need help with the dialogue? - Poisoned apples (talk) 23:43, November 2, 2017 (UTC)

Moot topics
Hello, I hope you're having a good day,

I wanted to tell you and let you know that you missed the previous moot, and as a result your topic was not discussed. If you want to discuss it next month, please add it to the moot project page and be present to present it. For your convenience, your topic(s) you proposed will be below. *Changing the OOG template for both licensed works and unlicensed sources.Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 17:17, November 1, 2017 (UTC) For any questions, please message me or another staff member. Thank you and have a good day, – The Crusader of Truth (talk – chat) 21:35, November 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * Adding a new requirement for a "Good Article" character page.Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 17:17, November 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * It's okay, a lot of moot members assumed you just didn't know the moot time. I'll try to remember to send you a message about a day before the moot next month. Don't worry about it too much. – The Crusader of Truth (talk – chat) 22:48, November 4, 2017 (UTC)

Reliability
" Torygg did not take the opportunity, as a true Nord would, to rebel against what they saw as unfair" which is pertaining to Torygg.The subject is about Torygg adhering to the White Gold Concordant, which he is condoning, thus trading their god for peace. That line still has relevance.

Also to claim that only one Nord thinks Tiber Septim is a Nord when Nords Arise! implies that many people in Skyrim consider him a Nord is completely deceptive. There's a reason why many nords venerate him and refuse to give open worship of him up, and that's because Nords consider Talos as one of their own. Nords Arise and Heimskr's dialogue is spelling that out almost explicity. He has a Nord name, uses the Thuum, and grew up in Skyrim. Trying to downplay those aspects of Tiber Septim is just your way of trying to remove Talos' relatability to the Nords. Which I don't know how you can justify, you know everything in Skyrim implies the Nords have a reverent kinship to Talos. And some of the justifications like Talos being a Brenton because he hated orcs? So what, so did the Nords!(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 17:57, November 7, 2017 (UTC))


 * Nords Arise! "Tiber Septim, a true son of Skyrim, born in the land of snow and blood, bred to the honor of our people, is now Talos, god of might and honor." That is a Nord. Nords live in Skyrim. They were born in Skyrim. How can you deny that?(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 18:07, November 7, 2017 (UTC))


 * There's no absolute proof either way of what Talos' race was but you can't deny that people believed he was Nord when IT'S IN THE GAME and you can't deny that just you don't like the idea floating around. There's plenty of in game content to at least argue people believed he was a Nord and people believe that.(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 18:11, November 7, 2017 (UTC))


 * Whatever my sources are from the game, people believe Talos was Nord IN GAME. Looking at some of these sources, who the hell is Kier-jo? And why is his opinion of Talos being Breton valid enough to be credible? These sources claiming he was a Breton links to these weird fan made websites which doesn't look like they are affiliated with Bethesda in any way.(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 18:21, November 7, 2017 (UTC))


 * The fact that some Bretons dislike Orsimer does not in any way reliably indicate that Tiber Septim was a Breton himself. Likewise, Wulfharth's account that some Nords also disliked Orsimer is equally useless here. There's no reason for any of that to be included in the article. Nords Arise! does not specifically refer to Tiber Septim as a Nord, so I would be hesitant to cite it in this situation. Heimskr's direct reference to Tiber Septim's race is sufficient here.


 * I also feel the need to reiterate that out-of-game sources are not inherently unreliable: in this particularly example, the natural inclination is to shy away from some of the OOG sources cited in that article on account of their being in the form of role-playing. That's understandable, perhaps, but ultimately misguided. The documents recorded on that Imperial Library page are taken straight from developer interactions. This is not fan roleplaying. —Atvelonis (talk) 21:02, November 7, 2017 (UTC)

Moot
Rikke says "Not everyone's agreed to the Moot. You've been here long enough to know that Nords aren't always sensible. We follow our hearts". Everyone means not every person. If it was just Ulfric, then she would just say Ulfric by name. So yes Ulfric is the opposition to that because he is the face and head of the Stormcloaks, but the following sentence indicates "Nords" which is plural meaning more than one Jarl is supporting Ulfric's decision to deny the moot. And the Old Holds all declared for Ulfric during the start of the civil war did they not? If all the Jarls were demanding the Moot, Ulfric being outnumbered would be pressured to attend the moot, but him having the political clout to deny that implies that Ulfric has supporters which could delay the moot. This is futher illustrated in the dialogue:
 * Galmar: "The Jarls are upset. They don't all support you."
 * Ulfric: "Damn the Jarls."
 * Galmar: "They demand the Moot."

Meaning the Jarls who were upset, who didn't support Ulfric, were the ones demanding the Moot, and further illustrating the point that the Stormcloak Jarls were falling in line behind Ulfric's policy of delaying the moot.

I don't see why it's controversial to state the Stormcloak Jarls would obey Ulfric who they believe to be the true High King when the evidence points to that being true. And saying "all Jarls" demanded the moot is deceptive if not false of the reality of what the story is saying. But if you want to be explicit about it, we could say "some Jarls" demanded the moot but not every one of them, including Ulfric..."(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 21:43, November 18, 2017 (UTC))
 * Ok. I reverted it back to its original state.(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 01:37, November 19, 2017 (UTC))