Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-1600847-20161103125247/@comment-26801133-20161108001226

Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

3. They didn't let Ulfric go, if Ulfric won legally, he would've been High King by right and been seated on the throne, reason he had to escape is because he murdered Torygg. The Court didn't accept it. Torygg was killed by the Voice, this is a fact, loading screens, Hold guards, Torygg, Stentor and Elisif all say so. Of course the murderer won't admit to his murder.

Ulfric's rebellion was already ongoing for a couple of years prior to Torygg's death, Roggvir no doubt supported Ulfric and, when he saw him run from the guards, unlocked the gates to let him go, due to his treason. Roggvir opening the gate doesn't mean other guards supported him, in fact, Roggvir probably got swarmed when he allowed Ulfric to escape.

They recognised the challenge, not the way how Ulfric went about it. Ulfric cheated, it was murder regardless.

Ulfric did legally win the traditional duel. But the Imperials ruling the city care little for Nord traditions and only to maintain their own power and influence. Also Ulfric's duel was viewed as a direct disobedience to his Imperial superiors, making them look weak. So of course they couldn't let him get away. Also, the rebellion started with the death of Torygg which, according to Hadvar, happened a few months ago of the Dragonborn being captured. Not years. Just clearing that up.

4. It's not the Empire that's keeping the Moot from meeting, it's Ulfric. 'When the Moot meets we're backing Elisif, they'll do the sensible thing.' -Tullius

'Damn the moot!' -Ulfric

Ulfric is the one preventing the Moot from gathering, not the Empire.

You realize how ridiculous it sounds? Rikke mentions that: " ''Not everyone's agreed to the Moot." ''Its a lot more than just Ulfric being in the way. It is half of Skyrim. Not just a single man.

More support

Ulfric had no right to retake Markarth to begin with, let alone, keep the Empire out. He had commited a crime regardless and the Empire never said the Talos worship was permanent.

It will not be a government policy? Ulfric segregates the Dunmer and the Argonians, his guards don't aid the Dunmer either and the Dunmer have to live in a slum. It already is a government policy when Ulfric is Jarl.

Yes, they have lived for generations with one another, then Ulfric came around in 4E 176 and the entire population of Windhelm starts seeing Dunmer and Argonians as trash, they won't return to their old ways under Stormcloak rule.

Ulfric got permission and was contracted by Jarl Hrolfdir and his son Igmund. It was not done on his own initative. He kept the Empire out because they wanted to break the agreement between Ulfric and the Jarl of Markarth. If a smith is contracted to make a blade for a customer and the customer doesnt pay his due, the smith has the right to claim possession of the blade. It is no different in Ulfric's case.

Hey, guess what? Riften is one of the most welcoming and open-hearted cities in Skyrim. And it is also a Stormcloak town. Also the Reach treat the Reachmen far more cruelly than the Dunmer in Windhelm. And it is an Imperial controlled city. Not every Stormcloak is racist. And not every Imperial cares for the well-being of their citizens.

Are you actually serious?! So you are telling me that the people got along with Dunmer and Argonians just fine and when Ulfric came to power, everyone magically turned into racists?! Unless you have some valid evidence, I'm just going to call BS on that. Thalmor

Your ignorance regarding the WGC won't safe your point, best to keep ignorant speculations out of here if you want to come off as at least a little bit intelligent.

The Dominion could've won the Great War, it doesn't matter what you say 'but the mountains' 'but the snow' the lore states they could've won, so they could've won. Period. Skyrim will be weak after a Stormcloak victory and unable to recover quickly.

The book "The Great War" says that both sides were exhausted after reclaiming the Imperial city. There is no mention at all the the Dominion would have won the war, since both sides were equal in strength. In fact, the book alludes to that the Empire could have defeated the Dominion if the Emperor kept his nerve. Don't know where you are getting your facts from, in all honesty...

 "Ulfric & the Stormcloaks are racist". 

Every Dunmer who lives on his own is forced to live in the slum, including the farmer you mentioned, his name is Beyn Hlaalu and his house is the first house on your left when entering the Grey Quarter when coming from the Temple of Talos. Secondly, it is city property and the Dunmer pay taxes, so yes, he does have to fix it. The Dunmer themselves state that they have to live there, because they do. Ulfric made a decree that forbids Argonians from living inside the city walls, so even if 90% of Windhelm's population died, they wouldn't be allowed in, due to Ulfric's racism.

When the Dragonborn purchases property, he pays for his/her own renovations of that home. Same goes for every other citizen of Skyrim. I don't know where you got the idea that the Jarl pays for all the homes in his hold. If that was the case, I would imagine the Jarl going broke. No one is entitled to free renovations. The Dunmer lives in the Gray Quarter because there is no room anywhere else. Not because they were forced. Also none of the Dunmer ever use the word "forced" when they describe their situation. And it isn't sure if it Ulfric's degree to keep the Argonians out of the city. The Argonians say so, but in the book "Scourge of the Gray Quarter" says that the Argonian Assemblage existed thanks to Hoag Mer-Killer since the first era.

 Before a Stormcloak victory:

 Ulfric 'Damn the Jarls! Damn the Moot!'

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Aftert a Stormcloak victory:

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Ulfric: 'The Moot will meet'

<p style="font-weight:normal;">He's only in it for the throne, he doesn't care about tradition.

<p style="font-weight:normal;"> Before an Imperial victory:

<p style="font-weight:normal;"> Tullius: "You people and your damn Jarls."

<p style="font-weight:normal;"> Tullius:  "You Nords and your bloody sense of honor."

<p style="font-weight:normal;">''Tullius: "The provinces would fall into barbarism and lawlessness. Especially Skyrim." (implying that the Nords are all barbarians)''

<p style="font-weight:normal;">After an Imperial victory:

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Tullius: "I've come to respect them

<p style="font-weight:normal;">The Empire is greedy and only desires power. And Tullius is still racist towards Nords.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">''' "Ulfric cheated in his duel with Torygg because he used the Thu'um to murder Torygg". '''

<p style="font-weight:normal;"> A good warrior doesn't need to make a good king. Or would you like a bloody Daedra to rule over Skyrim? Ulfric can't even keep his own Hold safe, how is he meant to keep Skyrim safe? A ruler of a country seeks to improve it, and not just force-recruit soldiers. A good king understands how to do politics, something Ulfric doesn't understand.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">How is it cheating? There is no rule against the use of the Voice. Anything goes in a duel. It is only cheating if he broke a rule, which he didn't. <p style="font-weight:normal;"> The Empire cannot keep their Holds safe either. And where does it says he "force-recruits soldiers"? And that is what Ulfric says over and over; to rebuild his country to glory days. The Empire fight purely for maintaining control, no matter if Skyrim remains stagnant or not. <p style="font-weight:normal;">'''"The Thalmor Dossier says that Ulfric is a pawn of the Thalmor, so if the Stormcloaks win you're helping the Thalmor". '''

<p style="font-weight:normal;">The Thalmor consider him an asset because he's a dormant (uncooperative) ex-Thalmor agent. Ulfric already started a war. The Empire still loses Skyrim, which is something preferable to the Dominion.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Where does it say he is an ex-Thalmor agent? I have a feeling your are pulling a lot of crap out your ass. He was a soldier who was captured, interrogated and then released. No mention of him being an agent. <p style="font-weight:normal;">'''"In the Bear of Markarth in said that Ulfric tourted innocent people and killed anyone who didn't help him". '''

<p style="font-weight:normal;">"The Bear of Markarth" is a flawed book, not because it was written by an Imperial, but because it doesn't make any sense with the rest of the game. There is absolutely nothing backing up that book. Not a single mention of Ulfric doing anything. However, there are records of the Imperial Jarl of Markarth committing atrocities: "The Nords didn't care who was and who wasn't involved in the Forsworn Uprising. I had spoken to Madanach once, that was enough. But my little Aethra didn't want to see her papa leave her. She pleaded to the Jarl to take her instead. And after they made me watch as her head rolled off the block, they threw me in here anyway, to dig up their silver." - Braig' <p style="font-weight:normal;">'''"In Sovngarde Ulfric admits his cause was wrong". '''

<p style="font-weight:normal;">He doesn't say his cause was wrong, just that it was his fate to lose.

<p style="font-weight:normal;margin-bottom:0px!important;">They couldn't have beaten the Dominion, this is canon lore.

<p style="font-weight:normal;margin-bottom:0px!important;">Um, no... Pleased actually read his dialogue before making such claims:

<p style="font-weight:normal;">"Skyrim was betrayed, the blood of her sons spilled in doomed struggle against fate. And so in death, too late, I learn the truth - fed by war, so waxed the power of Alduin, World-Eater - wisdom now useless. By gods' jest in this grim mist together snared, Stormcloak and Imperial, we wander hopeless, waiting for succor."

<p style="font-weight:normal;">He makes no mention that it was his fate was to win or lose. He is talking about the fact the that while the war rage on, Alduin had grown stronger with every fallen soldier. Ulfric was expressing his regrets that he started a war during such a dire situation.