Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-95.94.124.138-20130922100323/@comment-13446185-20140717133301

Ifnsman wrote: The Greybeards naming the Dovahkiin "Ysmir" is not proof enough, I'm sorry. Not only would Ysmir most likely be the title of another individual entirely, it is just a title granted to the player character. The Dragonborn is just a Champion of an Aedra, not a Shezarrine.

Same thing with giving the character the Stormcrown title. He/She is still not the same Talos, nor is there any previous connection. Even without this, it should be pretty obvious that the Last Dragonborn (more accurate title) is neither Talos/Tiber Septim the man nor Talos the god.

Since both Reman & Miraak are not on the list, they're not Shezarrines (and neither has MK confirmed them). The Shezarrine list was also originally posted up at least a year before Skyrim released (or even longer ago). 'The Greybeards naming the Dovahkiin "Ysmir" is not proof enough, I'm sorry. Not only would Ysmir most likely be the title of another individual entirely, it is just a title granted to the player character. The Dragonborn is just a Champion of an Aedra, not a Shezarrine.'

Ysmir is not just a title, it is a title-being, the nordic equivilent of the Hoonding. It's not just thrown around everytime someone is named Dragonborn the name has a heavy connection to Talos (seeing as three of the four entities to be named Ysmir were within Talos, connected most notably to Wulfharth himself, and the fourth was probably just an early incarnation of Wulfharth). The fact that "Ysmir" alone is listed as an avatar of Lorkhan proves this.

'Same thing with giving the character the Stormcrown title. He/She is still not the same Talos, nor is there any previous connection. Even without this, it should be pretty obvious that the Last Dragonborn (more accurate title) is neither Talos/Tiber Septim the man nor Talos the god.'

Lol, you don't even have an argument here (not that you really had one above either), all you're saying is "nope, I disagree". The only person in history to ever be named Talos was Talos the mortal and Talos the god, this connection assures that the Dovahkiin has some connection to the god.

"Even without this, it should be pretty obvious that the Last Dragonborn (more accurate title) is neither Talos/Tiber Septim the man nor Talos the god."

^proof you have no argument. I don't get why you find it hard to believe

'Since both Reman & Miraak are not on the list, they're not Shezarrines (and neither has MK confirmed them). The Shezarrine list was also originally posted up at least a year before Skyrim released (or even longer ago).'

By list do you mean MK's list that I showed you before? If so, I hope you realize that the list only mentions the Shezarrines part of the Talos oversoul, this is made obvious by the fact that Pelinal isn't listed (the original Shezarrine).

Reman was confirmed by MK on the same page,

"SPACE GODS BEGAT REMAN!"

-MKs Posts (if you didn't know, the space god is Lorkhan)

Miraak can be connected to Lorkhan because he is a bringer of hardship to the skaal and, because of this, is an aspect of the Adversary/The Greedy Man who is Sithis/Lorkhan.

Ifnsman wrote: Don't know why you bothered to deny that Shor is Lorkhan, now that you're agreeing, since it's technically true.

In the mortal perspective, they are separate entities. This does not mean they really are. Lorkhan could easily have been acting through Shor, really meaning that it is the same Lorkhan given a different name by the Atmorans/Nords who worshiped him. Talos can now act as both since he Mantles them.

The Heroes of Sovngarde speak of Shor because they're long dead. Shor is the God in Sovngarde that they recognized in life & in death (and thus their name for the Missing God otherwise known as "Lorkhan" by the Mer), not a relatively new god created by a collection of three individuals

The reason why Shor is gone is not really explained in Skyrim. Play TESIII: Morrowind for a much clearer (though not entirely so) explanation on why Lorkhan is missing. 'In the mortal perspective, they are separate entities. This does not mean they really are. Lorkhan could easily have been acting through Shor, really meaning that it is the same Lorkhan given a different name by the Atmorans/Nords who worshiped him. Talos can now act as both since he Mantles them.'

No, they are seperate entities, the aspects of gods aren't little playthings for the main pieces, however they can be considered the same being because they are just different ideas of the same god. Talos did not mantle the place of Nordic Underworld god, he mantled the place of keeping the freaking Mundus togethor; you are just making stuff up now.

'The Heroes of Sovngarde speak of Shor because they're long dead. Shor is the God in Sovngarde that they recognized in life & in death (and thus their name for the Missing God otherwise known as "Lorkhan" by the Mer), not a relatively new god created by a collection of three individuals '

"Shor is the God in Sovngarde that they recognized in life & in death" Lol, wow dude, you really are just making stuff up. This is just ridiculous.

'The reason why Shor is gone is not really explained in Skyrim. Play TESIII: Morrowind for a much clearer (though not entirely so) explanation on why Lorkhan is missing.'

First of all I have played TES: III. I'm guessing you're referring to how you unbind Lorkhan's Heart. You do realize that this wouldn't effect Shor at all in Sovngarde, right? Shor will always be bound to his own plane because it is his own plane, it isn't even part of Mundus. The reason why Shor is missing is not explained, however the dialogue of the Heros of Sovngarde makes it quite clear that it hasn't been a long time.

This is seriously the only explanation why Shor is gone, "Shor's high seat stands empty; his mien is too bright for mortal eyes.". That he is gone so the Dovahkiin doesn't go blind.