The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot/Log February 2018

21:12:59: Atvelonis: Alright so we should begin the moot now 21:13:00: Aramithius: Anyways, enough of my bad attempts at multitasking 21:13:09: Atvelonis: @Cat Master, I think you're signed up first 21:13:11: Atvelonis: Hi Nekyn 21:13:14: The Crusader of Truth: Our favorite slug o/ 21:13:15: Nekyn Alb: Heya 21:13:19: Nekyn Alb: :-] 21:13:26: Aramithius: But not a Sload...? 21:13:34: Nekyn Alb: Moot's over I guess? 21:13:39: Atvelonis: Starting 21:13:41: The Crusader of Truth: No just starting 21:13:43: Nekyn Alb: I'm not Red and Hot 21:13:49: Nekyn Alb: oh, nice 21:14:59: Atvelonis: Topic: Need to discuss how we will continue to document ESO weapons, crafting items, and misc items. Should we continue creating pages for individual items, or document them in list pages like the Stolen Items or Furnishings (Online) pages? 21:15:26: The Cat Master: I'm going to try to make this quick. I hhave stuff i need to do this afternoon 21:16:15: Aramithius: How have we done them in other games? 21:16:22: Aramithius: When they're mundane weapons 21:16:33: Aramithius: Is there any reason to treat ESO weapons differently? 21:16:42: Nekyn Alb: Pages for stuff with individual names, different crafting styles etc. on one page. Not sure on set pieces 21:16:48: The Cat Master: A shit ton of items 21:17:05: Aramithius: Ah 21:17:14: The Crusader of Truth: There are more items than you can shake a stick at 21:17:18: The Crusader of Truth: *They're 21:17:22: Nekyn Alb: There are basically no unique item designs but a whole damn lot of crafting styles and names 21:17:23: Nekyn Alb: lmao 21:17:29: Atvelonis: How many are there in total? 21:17:30: Rozty: if they don't have individual pages what would seperate the,? 21:17:33: Rozty: theM? 21:17:41: The Crusader of Truth: I would assume type 21:18:22: Aramithius: I'd personally only make different pages for things if they have a mechanical difference, but that's just my way of thinking about it 21:18:33: Atvelonis: They have different stats 21:18:52: The Cat Master: i think they should be documented in a table format like i did with the stolen items and player home furnishings 21:18:58: Atvelonis: e.g http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Stolen_Items 21:19:30: Rozty: wouldn't that create a huge table? 21:19:37: Blademaster Jauffre: I think each material should have its own weapon/armor page. 21:19:41: Rozty: i don't think it would be good to have those 21:19:46: Atvelonis: If you look on the Stolen Items page it's sorted into sub-pages 21:19:46: Blademaster Jauffre: but idk 21:19:52: Atvelonis: Stolen Items/A, Stolen Items/B, etc. 21:20:02: The Supreme Argonian: What's been/being discussed? 21:20:05: Amulet of Kings: Having a separate page for every single object isn't necessary, there are tons of weapons, and their stats change depending on your level 21:20:09: Aramithius: That seems like a reasonable way to do it 21:20:13: Rozty: if this works like i think it does, havinng a page for each material would be good 21:20:24: Atvelonis: What do you mean for each material? 21:20:27: The Crusader of Truth: @Argonian Need to discuss how we will continue to document ESO weapons, crafting items, and misc items. Should we continue creating pages for individual items, or document them in list pages like the Stolen Items or Furnishings (Online) pages? 21:20:31: Blademaster Jauffre: Rubedite, iron, ebony, etc. 21:20:32: Atvelonis: Like "Daedric Weapons (Online)"? 21:20:39: Atvelonis: and just list those types there as well? 21:20:43: Aramithius: Although then, what do you search for? For a Sword, or an Iron Sword? I'm not sure which is better 21:21:02: The Supreme Argonian: I suppose it depends on whether we want more pages or less pages with more content 21:21:09: KINMUNE: Hello there, RhodiumOdi! 21:21:15: Blademaster Jauffre: I don't think each individual item for online deserves its page 21:21:26: Aramithius: No, but what's the most intuitive split? 21:21:31: Nekyn Alb: There are about 3000 different weapons and armor pieces 21:21:47: The Crusader of Truth: Definitely no problem making that many pages 21:21:49: Blademaster Jauffre: On material, and then per material you list the minimum/maximum damage/protection of weapons/armor of that material 21:21:50: The Crusader of Truth: (Sarcasm) 21:21:53: Blademaster Jauffre: if that makes sense 21:21:53: Atvelonis: So we could make a centralized Items (Online) page with all the tables, with sub-pages 21:21:53: Nekyn Alb: 3600 by the folder size but there are some which look the same 21:22:00: Rozty: oof, yeah i don't think they should have a page on their own 21:22:04: Atvelonis: And then we would have the standard "Iron Weapons (Online)" 21:22:09: The Supreme Argonian: Online's articles seem pretty empty at the moment. I don't really see the point with making more empty pages. 21:22:11: Atvelonis: As well as the standard "Swords (Online)" 21:22:19: Atvelonis: There's no reason we can't do all of those 21:22:29: Atvelonis: I think I agree that individual pages for all the items is unnecessary 21:22:41: Blademaster Jauffre: How do you mean to split iron weapons and swords though? 21:22:45: Blademaster Jauffre: Iron swords exist 21:22:54: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Weapons_(Skyrim) 21:22:56: The Crusader of Truth: Comment: We've only discussed weapons. Don't forget about everything else, e.g furnishing 21:22:57: Aramithius: Iron Sword would exist on both pages 21:23:04: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Swords_(Skyrim) 21:23:08: Atvelonis: They can both exist 21:23:15: Atvelonis: Info is on more than one page, sorted for different uses 21:23:23: Atvelonis: I think just carrying this practice on for ESO works 21:23:24: Aramithius: Does that cause routing conflicts? 21:23:32: Blademaster Jauffre: All, like that 21:23:35: The Crusader of Truth: We already do stuff like Weapons (Daggerfall) and Iron Dagger (Daggerfall) 21:23:38: Atvelonis: It seems to work fine 21:23:41: Aramithius: Ah, ok 21:23:42: Rozty: furnishing should be treated the same with the stolen items page, no? 21:23:45: The Crusader of Truth: I don't think it's a bad idea at all 21:23:46: Blademaster Jauffre: That seems fine 21:23:53: Blademaster Jauffre: I agree with Rozty on furnishing 21:23:53: Nekyn Alb: 4000 furnishings 21:24:00: Amulet of Kings: What about making redirects for the items? 21:24:14: Rozty: oof 21:24:18: The Crusader of Truth: We redirect them to the proper page? 21:24:23: Blademaster Jauffre: Yes 21:24:25: Atvelonis: We could redirect them to Items (Online) 21:24:27: The Supreme Argonian: What if you had like "weapons" as well as a page for "iron weapons". Then on "weapons" there'd be a link to "iron weapons" somewhere. 21:24:31: Rozty: although it probably should exist 21:24:31: The Cat Master: Furnishing is already taken care of. That was my first big project last year 21:24:48: Rozty: what if someone is looking for a specific weapon? 21:24:53: Rozty: oh 21:24:56: Blademaster Jauffre: Define specific 21:24:57: The Crusader of Truth: ctrl+f 21:25:00: Atvelonis: ^ 21:25:03: The Supreme Argonian: "Unique weapons" 21:25:10: Nekyn Alb: Weapons are basically all the same 21:25:12: Blademaster Jauffre: How do we handle set items though? 21:25:12: The Crusader of Truth: ==Unique Weapons== 21:25:15: The Crusader of Truth: ctrl+f 21:25:21: Blademaster Jauffre: Do we make a page for sets? 21:25:23: Nekyn Alb: no ctrl+f on the app 21:25:24: Rozty: like the exact name, then they would have to navigate through everything 21:25:41: Atvelonis: Like armor sets jauffre? 21:25:50: Atvelonis: @Nekyn: they're sorted alphabetically. Not hard to find 21:25:50: The Crusader of Truth: hmm 21:25:51: The Supreme Argonian: Why cntrl+f Crusader 21:25:53: Nekyn Alb: Sets should definitely get a page 21:25:59: Atvelonis: idk what "sets" means 21:26:05: Atvelonis: If this is some special ESO lingo then idk 21:26:07: Blademaster Jauffre: ESO has sets that give boosts for each item of it that you wear 21:26:13: The Crusader of Truth: ctrl+f=cntrl+f, Argonian 21:26:21: Blademaster Jauffre: Example: 1 item +10% exp, 2 items +20%, etc. 21:26:26: The Crusader of Truth: Difference is, the key says ctrl 21:26:31: The Crusader of Truth: At least, mine does 21:26:34: Rozty: oh, those sets you mean 21:26:36: Atvelonis: Like this? http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Footman%27s_Fortune 21:26:38: Aramithius: Would that not be solved by adding in an "as part of a set" value to each item row in a table? 21:26:40: Amulet of Kings: I think ESO wiki has a page per set 21:26:40: The Supreme Argonian: Good for you Cursader 21:26:41: Atvelonis: We have pages for these already 21:26:43: Rozty: yeah they should have thier own page 21:26:49: Blademaster Jauffre: Ah, didn't know that 21:26:50: Nekyn Alb: Like that, yeah 21:26:50: Blademaster Jauffre: nvm then' 21:26:55: Rozty: oh 21:27:04: Rozty: i don't know anything about eso pages 21:27:22: Blademaster Jauffre: What's the topic again? 21:27:38: The Crusader of Truth: The overall topic: Need to discuss how we will continue to document ESO weapons, crafting items, and misc items. Should we continue creating pages for individual items, or document them in list pages like the Stolen Items or Furnishings (Online) pages? j*21:27:46: The Crusader of Truth: The one in specific: Doing sets
 * 21:27:50: Atvelonis: I'm all for list pages
 * 21:27:53: Atvelonis: We already have set pages
 * 21:27:56: Atvelonis: And the set pages are fine
 * 21:28:06: The Crusader of Truth: And link the sets on the list pages?
 * 21:28:07: Atvelonis: But for the individual items, they don't each need their own page
 * 21:28:11: Atvelonis: Yeah I guess
 * 21:28:17: The Crusader of Truth: Sounds good to me
 * 21:28:23: Blademaster Jauffre: Seems fair
 * 21:28:26: Aramithius: List pages sound fine, as it seems like a simple matter of extending existing practice
 * 21:28:27: Amulet of Kings: Example: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Burning+Spellweave+Set
 * 21:28:38: Rozty: would unique weapons have their own page, or would they be in the list too?
 * 21:28:51: Atvelonis: List I assume
 * 21:28:55: The Crusader of Truth: No individual pages, so list
 * 21:29:07: The Cat Master: Yes
 * 21:29:11: Amulet of Kings: Are there unic weapons?
 * 21:29:15: Blademaster Jauffre: yes
 * 21:29:16: Atvelonis: Some I think
 * 21:29:18: The Crusader of Truth: unic = unique?
 * 21:29:19: The Cat Master: not really
 * 21:29:19: The Crusader of Truth: Yes
 * 21:29:26: Blademaster Jauffre: Trueflame appears in ESO I think?
 * 21:29:31: Blademaster Jauffre: Or was it Hopesfire?
 * 21:29:52: Rozty: shouldn't they have their own page though?
 * 21:29:55: Blademaster Jauffre: nvm
 * 21:29:58: Blademaster Jauffre: they already do
 * 21:30:02: Blademaster Jauffre: but they should keep them
 * 21:30:03: Blademaster Jauffre: I think
 * 21:30:04: The Crusader of Truth: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Trueflame_(Online)
 * 21:30:10: Rozty: if they are unique there should be enough info on them to justify one
 * 21:30:23: Atvelonis: If they're really notable then I guess they can have their own page?
 * 21:30:27: Atvelonis: Like if they appear in previous games perhaps
 * 21:30:32: Atvelonis: Or are otherwise very important
 * 21:30:35: Rozty: and there's only so much you can say with a table
 * 21:30:38: The Crusader of Truth: Daedric weapons
 * 21:30:41: The Crusader of Truth: Historical weapons
 * 21:30:42: The Crusader of Truth: etc
 * 21:30:45: Blademaster Jauffre: What about quest rewards?
 * 21:30:48: Nekyn Alb: The different styles could also appear on the page of the crafting style, so users can see what they look like
 * 21:30:54: Rozty: what about acquisition?
 * 21:31:07: Blademaster Jauffre: ^^+1 on that idea Nek
 * 21:31:10: Atvelonis: Just have a column for that in the table?
 * 21:31:11: Nekyn Alb: There is equipment with descriptions btw
 * 21:31:12: The Crusader of Truth: Quest rewards aren't extremely unique though, they're all usually named from what I know
 * 21:31:21: Rozty: that would be different for unique weapons and players would want to knowthat
 * 21:31:29: Nekyn Alb: Quest rewards sometimes have unique descriptions
 * 21:31:42: The Crusader of Truth: Descriptions on the table is fine
 * 21:31:55: The Crusader of Truth: Kinda what we do for stolen items
 * 21:31:59: Amulet of Kings: They are many times a reskin though
 * 21:32:03: Rozty: how much columns would the list have? perhaps nmot everything will fit
 * 21:32:04: Nekyn Alb: "This dagger was woven from a tree and is bullshit but it has a hilt." that's the usual length I think
 * 21:32:14: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Stolen_Items/A
 * 21:32:24: Atvelonis: We could replace Region with Acquisition
 * 21:32:27: Atvelonis: It could easily fit
 * 21:32:55: The Crusader of Truth: "This weapon was forged from the blood of my enemies and can fly on Mondays"
 * 21:33:02: Rozty: there's also damage for the weapons
 * 21:33:25: The Crusader of Truth: Column as narrow as gold for damage
 * 21:33:29: Rozty: i guess it should be fine
 * 21:33:32: Atvelonis: Yeah it can fit
 * 21:33:39: Blademaster Jauffre: Damage can be noted down easily by going making a column for minimum and maximum damage
 * 21:33:39: Atvelonis: Just a single number, or at most a small range
 * 21:33:49: Blademaster Jauffre: *by making
 * 21:34:25: Nekyn Alb: 1-17
 * 21:34:31: Amulet of Kings: So, which is the latest proposal?
 * 21:34:39: Rozty: then i guess we are fine with this?
 * 21:34:59: The Crusader of Truth: Tabled data with the extremely noteworthy items with their own pages, from what I'm aware
 * 21:35:12: Blademaster Jauffre: That seems to be it, yeah
 * 21:35:15: Rozty: yeah
 * 21:35:18: The Cat Master: Yes
 * 21:35:22: Atvelonis: Vote?
 * 21:35:22: Aramithius: (+)
 * 21:35:25: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:35:26: Atvelonis: 2-0-0
 * 21:35:28: Blademaster Jauffre: (+)
 * 21:35:28: Rozty: (+)
 * 21:35:29: The Crusader of Truth: (+)
 * 21:35:29: Nekyn Alb: (+)
 * 21:35:33: The Cat Master: (+)
 * 21:35:40: Atvelonis: 7-0-0
 * 21:35:41: Amulet of Kings: (+)
 * 21:35:51: The Supreme Argonian: (How do you do it again lmao)
 * 21:35:56: The Crusader of Truth: http://prntscr.com/i9qbxy Slug and Slag voting together, what beauty
 * 21:35:58: Blademaster Jauffre: (
 * 21:35:59: Blademaster Jauffre: +
 * 21:36:00: The Crusader of Truth: (+)
 * 21:36:01: Blademaster Jauffre: )
 * 21:36:04: The Supreme Argonian: (+)
 * 21:36:11: Nekyn Alb: ayyy
 * 21:36:15: Atvelonis: 9-0-0
 * 21:36:22: The Crusader of Truth: Imma ping everyone kill me later
 * 21:36:29: The Crusader of Truth: @Everyone vote
 * 21:36:39: Rozty: i liked it better when you were not upside down vurs
 * 21:36:40: Atvelonis: @The Cat Master: I assume you would be interested in handling much of this, considering you have experience with Stolen Items and Furnishings (Online)?
 * 21:36:43: Rozty: crus*
 * 21:36:50: The Supreme Argonian: My pings still don't work :(
 * 21:37:01: The Supreme Argonian: It shows in red
 * 21:37:04: The Supreme Argonian: But no ping
 * 21:37:05: Amulet of Kings: But now it looks like yin and yang
 * 21:37:12: The Crusader of Truth: I could do !mods too but most of the mods are here soo
 * 21:37:21: The Crusader of Truth: And yes we are yin and yang (Y)
 * 21:37:24: The Cat Master: Yeah, i'll go ahead and start later in the he week
 * 21:37:29: KINMUNE: Hello there, The Great Laggi!
 * 21:37:30: Atvelonis: Ok great
 * 21:37:31: Atvelonis: Hi laggi
 * 21:37:32: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 21:37:35: Nekyn Alb: yin and yang but cancerous
 * 21:37:37: Nekyn Alb: Hi
 * 21:37:40: The Great Laggi: Hi
 * 21:37:50: Blademaster Jauffre: Next topic?
 * 21:37:59: Atvelonis: @DreamSoulshine
 * 21:38:07: Atvelonis: He has something about
 * 21:38:19: The Supreme Argonian: What's that?
 * 21:38:21: Atvelonis: Weird Wikia magic stuff that I don't really understand
 * 21:38:21: The Crusader of Truth: Oshit I didn't even notice Dream was here lmao
 * 21:38:23: Blademaster Jauffre:
 * 21:38:38: Atvelonis: It's some sort of function - not my area of expertise
 * 21:38:39: The Crusader of Truth: is a magic word, kinda sorta
 * 21:38:40: The Cat Master: I need to go. Bye
 * 21:38:43: Atvelonis: By C@
 * 21:38:44: Blademaster Jauffre: Cya
 * 21:38:44: The Crusader of Truth: o.
 * 21:38:53: Aramithius: Bye
 * 21:38:56: The Crusader of Truth: You use it to make commands
 * 21:39:03: The Great Laggi: So is this the moot or am I too early
 * 21:39:08: The Crusader of Truth: Like, hey, stupid computer, I put this in and you do this
 * 21:39:10: Aramithius: This is the moot
 * 21:39:12: The Supreme Argonian: You missed the first topic
 * 21:39:13: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 21:39:14: The Crusader of Truth: It's currently the moot yee
 * 21:39:32: The Great Laggi: good, then I didn’t miss much
 * 21:39:33: Aramithius: @DreamSoulshine, your topic next, I believe
 * 21:39:46: Blademaster Jauffre: There are only 3 topics @The Great Laggi
 * 21:39:57: The Great Laggi: oh
 * 21:39:58: The Crusader of Truth: If Dream is AFK I can do my topic to kill some time
 * 21:39:59: Atvelonis: More can be added if anyone decides they want to suggest something during the moot though
 * 21:40:03: The Crusader of Truth: Otherwise Dream has the floor
 * 21:40:09: Atvelonis: I think he's AFK. Go ahead and do yours Crus
 * 21:40:16: The Crusader of Truth: Okie
 * 21:40:43: The Crusader of Truth: (typing dont kill plz)
 * 21:40:50: The Supreme Argonian: This should be good...
 * 21:41:11: The Great Laggi: definitely
 * 21:42:46: The Crusader of Truth: So basically we have three templates for Characters in Skyrim, SkyrimCharacters (for characters), SkyrimCreatures (For creatures, duh), and then we have SkyrimEnemies, which is somehow put into both of them at the same time, and is mostly based on if the character is hostile or not. Which creates a couple of problems, if no one guessed. For one, a lot of our categories for skyrim NPCs are missing because of it, and for two, it also causes problems with inconsistencies across our articles. Some creatures dont have standard creature data and vise versa for characters
 * 21:42:49: Rozty: i was gone for a bit, what's the story so far?
 * 21:43:05: The Crusader of Truth: My proposal is to remove them, and to replace them with their respective templates they should have had to start with
 * 21:43:10: The Great Laggi: i see
 * 21:43:30: Atvelonis: This would also apply to the other games, I assume?
 * 21:43:34: Atvelonis: And what about section headings?
 * 21:43:34: Aramithius: So do we need to basically remove SkyrimEnemies entirely?
 * 21:43:38: Blademaster Jauffre: SkyrimEnemies seems irrelevant
 * 21:43:43: The Great Laggi: true
 * 21:43:46: Blademaster Jauffre: It's either a creature or a character
 * 21:43:52: The Crusader of Truth: Yes, this would also apply to other games. And yes, that's what I'm saying. @Atv Section headings?
 * 21:43:53: Blademaster Jauffre: and if they're hostile or not is explained in the article itself
 * 21:43:57: The Crusader of Truth: This is the infobox?
 * 21:44:12: The Supreme Argonian: And put everything in that category into SkyrimCharacters and SkyrimCreatures?
 * 21:44:18: Atvelonis: On many pages (particularly ESO) you have ==Characters==, then ==Creatures==, then ==Enemies==
 * 21:44:23: Aramithius: Do we have a "Hostile?" Yes/No tag we could put into infobox on both templates
 * 21:44:27: Aramithius: ?
 * 21:44:29: Atvelonis: Would we just scrap this heading and move the stuff in it to its surrounding headings?
 * 21:44:37: The Crusader of Truth: yes
 * 21:44:37: Atvelonis: I do like that "hostile" tag though
 * 21:44:41: The Great Laggi: i think we should remove skyrimenemies
 * 21:44:44: The Supreme Argonian: Actually that's a good idea Aramithius
 * 21:44:45: Atvelonis: Are you saying yes to me or aramithius?
 * 21:44:49: The Crusader of Truth: You
 * 21:44:57: Rozty: this actually brings to mind something i wanted to discuss and forgot to add to the moot topics, there's a similar issuw with morrowind categories, in that there are bandits and smugglers, both very arbitary
 * 21:45:12: The Crusader of Truth: Although at the very least, if there's a disagreement about it, the proposal is for /Skyrim/ enemies, moreso other games like ESO
 * 21:45:15: Rozty: if it doesn't fit here we can talk about it later though
 * 21:45:17: Amulet of Kings: Don't some characters become hostile after completing a certain quest?
 * 21:45:26: The Great Laggi: i think
 * 21:45:31: The Crusader of Truth: Yes, which creates more issues
 * 21:45:45: The Supreme Argonian: Couldn't that also go in the infobox?
 * 21:45:46: The Crusader of Truth: Who's to say they're hostile on the page if they're only hostile at a later point?
 * 21:45:58: The Crusader of Truth: It shouldn't go in the infobox
 * 21:46:02: Atvelonis: Why?
 * 21:46:05: Aramithius: Unless we make the tag of "hostile at gamestart"
 * 21:46:09: The Great Laggi: like if you join Harkon, the dawn guard members will be hostile
 * 21:46:12: Atvelonis: Infobox parameter: Hostile: Yes/No
 * 21:46:14: The Crusader of Truth: @Atv Me or Argonian?
 * 21:46:16: Amulet of Kings: Maybe something like: Neutral - Hostile after X quets
 * 21:46:16: Atvelonis: You
 * 21:46:24: The Crusader of Truth: Who would do the work?
 * 21:46:31: Amulet of Kings: The same thing happens to essential characters
 * 21:46:51: Aramithius: How is it treated with essential characters who change to nonessential?
 * 21:46:51: The Crusader of Truth: And would we do hostile to start with or after they turn hostile?
 * 21:46:57: The Crusader of Truth: It's still somewhat opinion based
 * 21:47:01: Atvelonis: No it's not
 * 21:47:04: The Great Laggi: if I had the time maybe I could, idk how to change categories tho
 * 21:47:08: Atvelonis: Just say "Passive until..."
 * 21:47:13: Atvelonis: Similar to what we do for Essential
 * 21:47:13: The Crusader of Truth: Fair enough
 * 21:47:23: Rozty: we could also just include whether one is hostile or not in the page itself, outside of the infobox
 * 21:47:23: The Crusader of Truth: Again though, who'd do the work?
 * 21:47:32: Atvelonis: I don't know
 * 21:47:39: The Great Laggi: depends on time
 * 21:47:43: Atvelonis: I think this is a separate issue
 * 21:47:48: Atvelonis: ish
 * 21:47:56: The Crusader of Truth: Should we create another infobox variable for something we don't have the manpower to do?
 * 21:47:58: The Supreme Argonian: If I learned to use infoboxes I suppose I could do a bit
 * 21:47:58: Atvelonis: It's connected, but deciding the specifics of that can be done another time
 * 21:48:05: Amulet of Kings: @Aramithius http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Elenwen_(Skyrim)
 * 21:48:17: Atvelonis: For the time being I think we need to focus on removing the "Enemies" distinction
 * 21:48:24: The Crusader of Truth: I think for now we can just worry with the template itself, yeah
 * 21:48:34: The Great Laggi: that is priority one
 * 21:48:45: The Crusader of Truth: But this raises this question, should we vote only for Skyrim or ESO too?
 * 21:48:48: The Supreme Argonian: But then how will people know whether they're hostile or not up until it's sorted?
 * 21:48:52: Atvelonis: All games
 * 21:48:56: Blademaster Jauffre: All games, yea
 * 21:48:56: Aramithius: OK, so what's the proposal exactly? Purge Skyrimenemies and leave the other 2 categories alone?
 * 21:49:09: Atvelonis: Purge SkyrimEnemies, OblivionEnemies, OnlineEnemies, etc.
 * 21:49:18: Atvelonis: And change section headings to reflect this
 * 21:49:18: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 21:49:19: Aramithius: OK
 * 21:49:29: Rozty: yeah
 * 21:49:32: The Supreme Argonian: Gottcha
 * 21:49:35: Atvelonis: Some of this can be botted
 * 21:49:44: The Great Laggi: have we reached an agreement?
 * 21:49:55: Aramithius: I think we've talked all we can. Votes?
 * 21:50:08: The Crusader of Truth: I think so yeah
 * 21:50:10: Atvelonis: Actually OblivionEnemies doesn't exist
 * 21:50:10: Amulet of Kings: (+)
 * 21:50:12: Blademaster Jauffre: (+)
 * 21:50:13: Atvelonis: But Skyrim and ESO do
 * 21:50:15: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:50:16: Aramithius: (+)
 * 21:50:19: Atvelonis: 4-0-0
 * 21:50:24: The Crusader of Truth: As nominator, (+)
 * 21:50:31: The Great Laggi: ✅
 * 21:50:37: Atvelonis: (+) to vote laggi
 * 21:50:38: The Supreme Argonian: I don't think this can work without having a plan to deal with the tagging or whatever
 * 21:50:42: Atvelonis: Tagging?
 * 21:50:46: The Great Laggi: oh
 * 21:50:51: The Supreme Argonian: As "hostile"
 * 21:50:58: Rozty: (+)
 * 21:50:58: The Great Laggi: so (+)
 * 21:51:00: Atvelonis: We can work that out separately
 * 21:51:02: Atvelonis: 7-0-0
 * 21:51:09: The Crusader of Truth: For now I can just include it in the article
 * 21:51:09: The Great Laggi: got it
 * 21:51:13: The Supreme Argonian: We do this and then until you get some plan they'll be nothing about being hostile
 * 21:51:24: Atvelonis: I mean
 * 21:51:25: The Crusader of Truth: /This character is hostile upon seeing the Dragonborn/
 * 21:51:30: The Supreme Argonian: I think it needs to be more thought through
 * 21:51:32: Atvelonis: The presence of SkyrimEnemies doesn't really get across that info
 * 21:51:36: The Crusader of Truth: ^
 * 21:51:39: Atvelonis: Only to powerusers
 * 21:51:39: The Crusader of Truth: That's true too
 * 21:51:43: Atvelonis: Who know what the template is for
 * 21:51:46: The Supreme Argonian: Still
 * 21:51:56: The Supreme Argonian: I just generally think it needs to be included
 * 21:52:11: Atvelonis: Hostility is important to note imo, yes
 * 21:52:14: The Supreme Argonian: And that needs to be considered
 * 21:52:25: The Crusader of Truth: The alternative is keeping a template with less information than characters, which is more damaging than just removing the hostility that only users who edit know about
 * 21:52:34: Amulet of Kings: We'll leave that for the ingenuous users that join next month's moot :P
 * 21:52:36: Aramithius: That's a separate issue, I think. Shell we discuss that as next item, as we've lost whoever was proposing the next item
 * 21:52:37: The Supreme Argonian: I'd agree but I think it's a bit rash still
 * 21:52:47: The Supreme Argonian: (+)
 * 21:52:50: Atvelonis: 8-0-0
 * 21:53:11: The Supreme Argonian: No point voting against. But it does need sorting.
 * 21:53:19: The Crusader of Truth: @Everyone  Vote
 * 21:53:33: Qahnaarin1997: No u
 * 21:53:39: The Crusader of Truth: Probably should be pinging everyone earlier than I am
 * 21:53:56: The Supreme Argonian: Once you've figured out how it's going to be done, someone tell me and I'll see what I can do about helping, even just a bit
 * 21:53:58: Rozty: it's kinda late now
 * 21:54:16: The Crusader of Truth: Yee you're right
 * 21:54:30: The Crusader of Truth: Okay, well, I think we do have an agreement though
 * 21:54:33: Blademaster Jauffre: Yea
 * 21:54:40: The Great Laggi: Yep
 * 21:54:45: The Crusader of Truth: @Dream are you still AFK?
 * 21:54:52: Aramithius: Not online
 * 21:54:56: The Great Laggi: any more topics
 * 21:54:58: The Supreme Argonian: Dream left ages ago lmao
 * 21:55:00: Blademaster Jauffre: Anyone have other topics?
 * 21:55:00: The Crusader of Truth: If not, I think you had a topic Amulet?
 * 21:55:17: The Crusader of Truth: I think one of the mods had a topic
 * 21:55:20: The Crusader of Truth: !mods
 * 21:55:22: Atvelonis: Crus you said at the sign-up that you would present for Dream
 * 21:55:26: The Crusader of Truth: Yee
 * 21:55:39: Amulet of Kings: I don't
 * 21:55:55: Qahnaarin1997: That was one hell of a ping noise delay lol
 * 21:55:59: The Crusader of Truth: But since Dream is here, even if he's AFK, I wanna give him a chance. Because honestly I don't 100% know what I'm talking about and presentation is gold
 * 21:56:07: Qahnaarin1997: 2 minutes lol
 * 21:56:09: The Supreme Argonian: Why won't my bloody pings workkkk
 * 21:56:09: Atvelonis: True. We can always wait
 * 21:56:33: The Supreme Argonian: Someone try pinging me please
 * 21:56:37: The Crusader of Truth: I could have swore someone had a topic tho
 * 21:56:42: Aramithius: @The Supreme Argonian
 * 21:56:58: The Supreme Argonian: It shows in red, because it's one of my ping phrases
 * 21:57:02: The Supreme Argonian: But no ping...
 * 21:57:10: The Crusader of Truth: Actually couldn't we just do the whole infobox enemy thing
 * 21:57:13: The Crusader of Truth: I mean, we're all here
 * 21:57:13: Nekyn Alb: TSA, did you switch out of the chat tab and back already?
 * 21:57:16: The Crusader of Truth: And we have nothing else
 * 21:57:23: Blademaster Jauffre: Can someone ping me when the topic gets started? Cuz I'm gathering dialogue from Dragonborn
 * 21:57:26: Rozty: dream isn't here tho
 * 21:57:45: Amulet of Kings: I'll do Jauffre
 * 21:57:49: Blademaster Jauffre: Thanks
 * 21:57:55: Atvelonis: Ok
 * 21:58:02: The Great Laggi: new topic?
 * 21:59:24: Aramithius: Infobox enemy thing? I think it would be a "Hostile" box, with something like "No", "Yes" or whatever "if" conditions ta given NPC has for turning hostile
 * 21:59:45: Atvelonis: Aggressive/unaggressive maybe?
 * 21:59:49: Atvelonis: How is it described in the CK?
 * 21:59:53: The Great Laggi: yea I think that would be helpful
 * 21:59:54: The Crusader of Truth: How would we decide that data? Hostility in the CK is way more annoying to get
 * 22:00:04: Aramithius: It's a "hostility" value
 * 22:00:04: Atvelonis: ...the data would be decided via the CK
 * 22:00:07: Atvelonis: Even if it's annoying to find
 * 22:00:11: Atvelonis: Still important to readers tbh
 * 22:00:14: Rozty: isn't it based on a variable?
 * 22:00:14: Aramithius: It's a numbers figure
 * 22:00:35: The Crusader of Truth: I'm assuming I would have to do the work or?
 * 22:00:38: Aramithius: Which I don't know how to translate into "will attack"/"won't attack"
 * 22:00:51: Atvelonis: I'm not sure who will do the work. I could bot some of it
 * 22:00:58: The Crusader of Truth: If I remember right it's some number over 60 for base hostility
 * 22:00:59: The Great Laggi: i am not to good at editing so I cant
 * 22:01:04: Rozty: i guess the safe solution is to just test it in the game
 * 22:01:16: The Crusader of Truth: That would take literally forever, though
 * 22:01:30: Atvelonis: It's important data
 * 22:01:43: The Crusader of Truth: I don't know about you, but I'd rather not spawn 1200 characters just to see their hostility. We need to use the CK
 * 22:01:49: The Great Laggi: and someone has to collect it
 * 22:01:54: Rozty: yeah, but at least we can be sure that numbers over 90 are hostile on sight tho
 * 22:01:55: Aramithius: Only some NPCs change, though. A small fraction. And no creatures. Creatures are either hostile or not
 * 22:02:05: Atvelonis: "Disposition base"?
 * 22:02:06: Atvelonis: @Crus
 * 22:02:09: The Great Laggi: hey little random thing
 * 22:02:10: Atvelonis: Is that what it is?
 * 22:02:11: Amulet of Kings: Lazy Bethesda, edit the wiki yourself
 * 22:02:21: The Crusader of Truth: Uh I don't know
 * 22:02:21: Aramithius: Disposition and Hostility are different things
 * 22:02:28: Rozty: ^
 * 22:02:35: The Crusader of Truth: Imma open the CK and look honestly
 * 22:02:36: The Crusader of Truth: One sec
 * 22:02:44: Aramithius: In Morrowind, 0 disposition doesn't make people attack you. You have to do more taunts for that
 * 22:02:52: The Crusader of Truth: I agree we need the data but it's //how// that I'm worried about
 * 22:02:59: Atvelonis: I found it
 * 22:03:04: Rozty: there's a fight variable in the cs
 * 22:03:05: Atvelonis: https://i.gyazo.com/e285abdb8428c66420020cda57788e6d.png
 * 22:03:12: Atvelonis: Under "AI Data"
 * 22:03:13: The Great Laggi: i think we should add totals for homestead materials for only one homestead, and also the iron ingot total for materials too
 * 22:03:17: Atvelonis: It's just a dropdown tab
 * 22:03:27: Atvelonis: Unaggressive, Aggressive, Very Aggressive, Frenzied
 * 22:03:34: The Crusader of Truth: @Laggi can you hold that thought until we get done with this topic?
 * 22:03:39: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 22:03:39: Atvelonis: Just double click on the NPC's name and click AI Data
 * 22:03:42: Atvelonis: Not that hard
 * 22:03:58: The Crusader of Truth: And who's going to add this data?
 * 22:04:04: Aramithius: That seems consistent enough. Do we need to worry about situational changes?
 * 22:04:09: Atvelonis: I don't know, but we need it
 * 22:04:13: Atvelonis: I can add some of it
 * 22:04:28: The Crusader of Truth: Fair but it'll probably never get done if no one plans on doing it
 * 22:04:41: Atvelonis: It's not like we can just ignore this. Knowing whether a character is hostile or not is pretty big for readers
 * 22:04:54: Aramithius: Did the CK come with Legendary Edition Skyrim?
 * 22:04:55: The Crusader of Truth: Yeah true
 * 22:05:01: The Crusader of Truth: No, Aram
 * 22:05:12: The Crusader of Truth: You get it off of Steam
 * 22:05:13: Atvelonis: You download it somewhere
 * 22:05:14: Atvelonis: Yeah
 * 22:05:15: Atvelonis: Tools
 * 22:05:17: Atvelonis: or something
 * 22:05:19: Aramithius: Right, will look now
 * 22:05:20: The Crusader of Truth: Or nexus has it too I think
 * 22:05:31: The Crusader of Truth: But Steam is the better option for this
 * 22:05:36: Atvelonis: I think you may be able to download it off disc from the Anthology
 * 22:05:41: Atvelonis: At least for the MW/OB CS
 * 22:05:44: Aramithius: I have the CS for Morrowind
 * 22:06:13: Atvelonis: We need to do this for all NPCs which is the problem
 * 22:06:21: Atvelonis: ESO is really the problem
 * 22:06:26: Aramithius: Ah
 * 22:06:37: The Great Laggi: i would help but I can’t because I only have console
 * 22:06:41: The Crusader of Truth: ESO is always the problem lmao
 * 22:06:47: Rozty: eso has better things to worry about before that
 * 22:07:00: The Great Laggi: it is always eso
 * 22:07:01: Atvelonis: Still needs the info
 * 22:07:05: Rozty: eso is out for consoles too tho
 * 22:07:25: The Great Laggi: i don’t have the money
 * 22:07:32: The Great Laggi: :p
 * 22:07:47: The Crusader of Truth: @Atv, Does Agro radius effect the ordeal?
 * 22:07:58: Atvelonis: I don't really know what that is
 * 22:08:08: Atvelonis: Radius in which they become aggerssive?
 * 22:08:09: Rozty: is that fpr eso?
 * 22:08:09: The Crusader of Truth: I mean, if I set attack to 100 on the radius, would aggressive even matter?
 * 22:08:10: Atvelonis: *aggressive?
 * 22:08:18: Rozty: because normally it shouldn't
 * 22:08:24: The Crusader of Truth: No Skyrim
 * 22:08:25: Atvelonis: I don't understand
 * 22:08:31: Atvelonis: If you're editing stuff in the CK then everything goes out the windoiw
 * 22:08:36: Atvelonis: 99.99% of players are not doing that
 * 22:08:40: Atvelonis: This is why we record data
 * 22:08:50: The Crusader of Truth: http://prntscr.com/i9qr9r
 * 22:08:57: Rozty: i think there may be some cases of npc getting aggressive after a specific distance from the player
 * 22:09:14: The Crusader of Truth: That's what I'm trying to ask yeah
 * 22:09:22: Atvelonis: I think that's not quite as important. People aren't measuring
 * 22:09:26: Aramithius: Isn't that simply an awareness radius, rather than actively tweaking the hostility?
 * 22:09:45: The Crusader of Truth: But wouldn't they be hostile?
 * 22:09:53: The Supreme Argonian: Is this for Skyrim or ESO?
 * 22:09:56: Atvelonis: Skyrim
 * 22:09:58: The Crusader of Truth: Just, when you get closer?
 * 22:09:58: Atvelonis: ESO has no Creation Kit
 * 22:10:13: The Great Laggi: Wish 360 had
 * 22:10:17: The Supreme Argonian: So you mean like the bandit who's on watch at Embershard Mine?
 * 22:10:30: Amulet of Kings: It can be datamined
 * 22:10:30: The Supreme Argonian: He's like "I'm warning you, back off"
 * 22:10:42: Aramithius: Ah, I forgot that...
 * 22:10:42: Rozty: isn't there a dude outside the cave in my time of need that will get agressive only if you get too clode?
 * 22:10:45: The Supreme Argonian: And if you stay put or get closer he attacks
 * 22:10:48: Rozty: close*
 * 22:11:11: The Great Laggi: or if you stay for a set amount of time
 * 22:11:16: The Supreme Argonian: So are we deciding whether the character is always hostile or only hostile when approached/enough time has passed?
 * 22:11:19: Atvelonis: That part is interesting but not really notable enough for the infobox I think. At the end of the day they are still an aggressive NPC
 * 22:11:20: Amulet of Kings: There are lots of variable, shouting also makes the guards nervous
 * 22:11:26: Amulet of Kings: variables*
 * 22:11:28: Atvelonis: This variable would JUST be the dropdown
 * 22:11:37: Atvelonis: Unaggressive/Aggressive/Very Aggressive/Frenzied
 * 22:11:39: Atvelonis: Which is very simple
 * 22:11:44: Rozty: i don't think shouting plays a part in this
 * 22:12:02: The Supreme Argonian: Shit we forgot to ping Blademaster Jauffre
 * 22:12:06: The Supreme Argonian: There
 * 22:12:09: Rozty: oops
 * 22:12:10: The Crusader of Truth: So if a bandit is nonaggressive, but attacks you if you get close, that would be saying they're non aggressive
 * 22:12:17: The Crusader of Truth: I don't think that's right
 * 22:12:23: The Great Laggi: unless it is dragon rend And the two dragons at skuldafn
 * 22:12:23: Amulet of Kings: Is this a new topic?
 * 22:12:23: Atvelonis: I don't think so
 * 22:12:26: The Supreme Argonian: I'd say they're always agressive
 * 22:12:27: Aramithius: Depends on what the CK says
 * 22:12:29: Atvelonis: I'm pretty sure that's not how it's defined Crus
 * 22:12:32: Rozty: that would be agressive right?
 * 22:12:32: Blademaster Jauffre: What?
 * 22:12:48: The Supreme Argonian: You wanted to be pinged once we started the topic
 * 22:12:53: The Supreme Argonian: So there you go
 * 22:12:54: The Supreme Argonian: Ping
 * 22:13:00: Blademaster Jauffre: Ah great
 * 22:13:04: Blademaster Jauffre: what's the topic>?
 * 22:13:05: The Crusader of Truth: But if they're set to just aggressive, then wouldn't they attack on sight?
 * 22:13:05: Atvelonis: Yeah it's not
 * 22:13:07: Amulet of Kings: I tought we were still dicussing the second topic
 * 22:13:08: Aramithius: So do we go with an entry stating what the CK says a given creature/NPC's thing is on the dropdown?
 * 22:13:17: Aramithius: Regardless of distance etc
 * 22:13:41: Atvelonis: Yes because I don't think the distance is quite as important
 * 22:13:49: Atvelonis: I'm not seeing any bandits where it's even activated, weirdly
 * 22:13:56: Rozty: yeah maybve it isn't
 * 22:14:00: The Supreme Argonian: I think it's whether a character is aggressive when they attack you or always (like bandits who tell you to "back off") Blademaster Jauffre
 * 22:14:14: The Supreme Argonian: I could be wrong though
 * 22:14:26: The Crusader of Truth: But they're still aggressive if you get closer?
 * 22:14:34: Aramithius: OK, so is it worth adding to the template and filling in by whoever when they have the time? I now have the CK downloaded, so I can wade in when I have some time
 * 22:14:55: Rozty: i think just having it be aggressive or not would be fine, for anything more we can just explain it in the article
 * 22:15:17: Atvelonis: Crus I'm not 100% sure that's what that is
 * 22:15:28: Atvelonis: I'm looking at a whole bunch of bandits right now and none of them have that box checked
 * 22:15:31: Atvelonis: It's all just 0
 * 22:15:38: The Crusader of Truth: Hmm
 * 22:15:45: Aramithius: Try the ones at Valheim Towers
 * 22:15:50: Aramithius: Ones at bridges and stuff
 * 22:16:00: The Crusader of Truth: It's hard to target specific locations like that
 * 22:16:03: Rozty: or swindler's den
 * 22:16:08: Rozty: oh
 * 22:16:18: Aramithius: Ah, ok. Shows you how much I know about the CK...
 * 22:16:25: The Crusader of Truth: They're all named "Bandit" after all
 * 22:16:37: The Crusader of Truth: At least, I don't know any data that'll help with that
 * 22:16:38: Atvelonis: Valtheim are listed as Unaggressive
 * 22:16:39: Atvelonis: I found them
 * 22:16:47: Atvelonis: It's the default aggression for the NPC
 * 22:16:53: Atvelonis: They become aggressive with dialogue
 * 22:17:08: Atvelonis: So in that case we would write "Unaggressive until they are refused payment" or something in the infobox
 * 22:17:12: Atvelonis: Or whatever it is
 * 22:17:22: Aramithius: Ah, ok. Forgot they had a toll
 * 22:17:24: Aramithius: Bad example
 * 22:17:31: The Crusader of Truth: I'm fairly sure a trigger goes off if you walk by down the road?
 * 22:17:40: The Crusader of Truth: (Unrelated to the debate at this point though)
 * 22:17:57: Atvelonis: idk
 * 22:18:24: Aramithius: ok, so shall we bring it to a vote based on the default aggression, with any additional complications noted alongside at the discretion of the editor?
 * 22:18:57: The Crusader of Truth: I'm still not sure if the issue with distance is answered, or if there's an issue at all with it
 * 22:19:06: Atvelonis: Distance I think appears not to be super relevant. It's hard to say
 * 22:19:12: Atvelonis: "Bear" has it checked
 * 22:19:44: Atvelonis: I don't see other NPCs with it for some reason
 * 22:20:03: The Crusader of Truth: Maybe it's a creature only thing? The mysteries of Bugthesda we'll never know
 * 22:20:25: Rozty: that's weird i definitely remember some that would be affected by distance
 * 22:20:40: Atvelonis: I don't know. Perhaps it's just a default thing not described there
 * 22:20:44: KINMUNE: Hello there, Poisoned apples!
 * 22:20:46: Aramithius: OK, do we vote on this now?
 * 22:20:47: Atvelonis: We'll figure it out at some point
 * 22:20:48: Atvelonis: Hi
 * 22:20:48: Atvelonis: Yes
 * 22:20:51: Aramithius: Evening, Apples!
 * 22:20:51: The Crusader of Truth: Okay, well, I guess by now we shouldn't worry about it and wait for a case of it to come up
 * 22:20:53: Rozty: but even then, i guess it's not that important
 * 22:20:54: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 22:20:56: The Supreme Argonian: Hey Apples
 * 22:21:02: Poisoned apples: I'm late?
 * 22:21:05: The Great Laggi: hell
 * 22:21:06: The Crusader of Truth: yes
 * 22:21:07: The Supreme Argonian: Congrats on Discussions MoTM
 * 22:21:07: Rozty: hay
 * 22:21:08: The Great Laggi: o
 * 22:21:09: The Supreme Argonian: Yes lmao
 * 22:21:10: Rozty: and yes
 * 22:21:11: The Crusader of Truth: Hour and 20 late
 * 22:21:12: Aramithius: Anyway, vote!
 * 22:21:14: The Great Laggi: lol
 * 22:21:26: Atvelonis: So the topic is to add an "aggression" parameter to infoboxes and insert the default info in the dropdown, "Unaggressive" or "Aggressive" or "Very Aggressive" or "Frenzied"
 * 22:21:26: The Great Laggi: (+)
 * 22:21:26: The Crusader of Truth: Don't vote until someone says exactly what we're voting on
 * 22:21:28: Rozty: vote for what?
 * 22:21:31: The Supreme Argonian: What exactly are we voting on?
 * 22:21:34: The Crusader of Truth: Which Atv just got
 * 22:21:36: Rozty: have we sorted it out ?
 * 22:21:36: Amulet of Kings: Wait, does this vote complement the previous one?
 * 22:21:37: Aramithius: @everyone vote
 * 22:21:40: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 22:21:42: Aramithius: Yes
 * 22:21:44: The Great Laggi: (+)
 * 22:21:45: Aramithius: (+)
 * 22:21:47: Atvelonis: 2-4-0-0
 * 22:21:49: Atvelonis: oops
 * 22:21:50: Atvelonis: 4-0-0
 * 22:21:52: The Supreme Argonian: What about radius and all?
 * 22:21:55: The Supreme Argonian: And warnings
 * 22:22:02: Rozty: (=0
 * 22:22:05: Rozty: (=)
 * 22:22:06: Atvelonis: Ignored for now because it seems not to apply to NPCs as far as we can tell
 * 22:22:07: Atvelonis: It's weird
 * 22:22:10: The Supreme Argonian: (+)
 * 22:22:11: The Crusader of Truth: That doesn't ping everyone Aram, i got dis
 * 22:22:11: Blademaster Jauffre: What are we voting on?
 * 22:22:13: Atvelonis: 5-1-0
 * 22:22:15: The Crusader of Truth: (+)
 * 22:22:15: The Supreme Argonian: Huh, that's strange
 * 22:22:16: Atvelonis: So the topic is to add an "aggression" parameter to infoboxes and insert the default info in the dropdown, "Unaggressive" or "Aggressive" or "Very Aggressive" or "Frenzied"
 * 22:22:20: Atvelonis: @Jauffre
 * 22:22:26: Atvelonis: 6-1-0
 * 22:22:29: The Crusader of Truth: @everyone vote
 * 22:22:34: Blademaster Jauffre: (+)
 * 22:22:37: Poisoned apples: (=)
 * 22:22:42: Amulet of Kings: (+)
 * 22:22:46: Atvelonis: 8-2-0
 * 22:22:48: The Great Laggi: (+)
 * 22:22:51: Atvelonis: 9-2-0
 * 22:23:12: Rozty: i think there should be something else to determine, this seems too vague
 * 22:23:55: Blademaster Jauffre: Wait, what's the difference between Aggresive, Very Aggresive, and Frenzied?
 * 22:23:58: Rozty: what would be the difference between aggressive and very aggresive?
 * 22:24:12: The Supreme Argonian: I think Aggressive is like the bandit at Embershard
 * 22:24:13: Aramithius: Those three are apparently settings in the CK
 * 22:24:31: Rozty: shouldn't we have just two options, aggressive and not?
 * 22:24:32: Atvelonis: Those are just the settings in the CK
 * 22:24:39: The Great Laggi: frenzied are when people are hit with frenzy
 * 22:24:42: Rozty: oh
 * 22:24:53: Atvelonis: It's an unambiguous distinction taken directly from those files
 * 22:25:07: Rozty: still, it should be modified a bit, we can't just have that
 * 22:25:23: The Crusader of Truth: What would you have in its place?
 * 22:25:30: Atvelonis: I mean, the aggro thing seems not to apply to these NPCs
 * 22:25:37: Blademaster Jauffre: Can't we just do Agressive: Yes/No?
 * 22:25:42: Blademaster Jauffre: Like we do with essential status?
 * 22:25:43: Rozty: something more concrete
 * 22:25:45: Amulet of Kings: Guards stop being aggresive if you draw your weapon
 * 22:25:50: Rozty: like jauffre said
 * 22:26:10: Atvelonis: That's not what we do with Essential
 * 22:26:17: Amulet of Kings: Maybe guards are only "Agressive" because of that
 * 22:26:19: Atvelonis: It's Yes, No, and Always
 * 22:26:21: Rozty: but that's not their default state, so it shouldn't be there right?
 * 22:26:23: The Crusader of Truth: Question: I thought we voted?
 * 22:26:26: Atvelonis: We did vote
 * 22:26:27: Atvelonis: lol
 * 22:26:34: The Crusader of Truth: oof
 * 22:26:39: Atvelonis: So too late for that one
 * 22:26:44: Rozty: oof
 * 22:26:44: Blademaster Jauffre: Oh well
 * 22:27:02: Rozty: next time
 * 22:27:03: Aramithius: Next topic?
 * 22:27:10: Rozty: yeah
 * 22:27:14: The Crusader of Truth: I still feel like the distance thing will end up being an issue but what we decided works ig
 * 22:27:15: Amulet of Kings: @Blademaster Jauffre New topic
 * 22:27:19: Amulet of Kings: Just in case
 * 22:27:36: The Crusader of Truth: Assuming I'm next, give me one minute
 * 22:27:48: The Great Laggi: me too
 * 22:27:52: Blademaster Jauffre: #MeToo
 * 22:27:55: Blademaster Jauffre: nah jk
 * 22:27:57: Blademaster Jauffre: I have no topics
 * 22:28:01: The Supreme Argonian: Oof
 * 22:28:02: The Crusader of Truth: Actually Laggi you can go
 * 22:28:04: Aramithius: I need to be off. Sleep etc, as I'll be staying up to silly o'clock tomorrow evening for Super Bowl
 * 22:28:04: Rozty: i haven't even checked the moot topics, i came here unprepared
 * 22:28:07: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 22:28:12: Atvelonis: goodnight
 * 22:28:15: Aramithius: Have fun all
 * 22:28:16: The Supreme Argonian: Jauffre can I follow you on Instagram
 * 22:28:20: Rozty: goodnight
 * 22:28:25: Blademaster Jauffre: Do you even know my instagram?
 * 22:28:30: The Supreme Argonian: Do you post lore stuff
 * 22:28:33: The Supreme Argonian: I do
 * 22:28:39: The Crusader of Truth: Since I'm presenting for Dream it's fine
 * 22:28:44: The Supreme Argonian: I requested to follow ages ago
 * 22:29:00: Rozty: why do you need permission to follow someone is the real question
 * 22:29:06: Blademaster Jauffre: Stalkers
 * 22:29:08: The Supreme Argonian: Private acc
 * 22:29:14: Blademaster Jauffre: I don't post lore on my IG tho
 * 22:29:17: The Crusader of Truth: Stay on the moot, please
 * 22:29:24: The Supreme Argonian: Don't tell them I'm actually 88
 * 22:29:28: The Crusader of Truth: @Laggi you have the floor
 * 22:29:29: The Supreme Argonian: Oh
 * 22:29:33: The Supreme Argonian: Oof Ryan's here
 * 22:29:34: The Great Laggi: i think we should add a material list for the homestead so it includes the total needed materials he hfhor a homesread and the total iron ingots needed
 * 22:29:35: The Supreme Argonian: You're late
 * 22:29:38: Rozty: i'm just waiting on lagi
 * 22:29:39: Rozty: oh
 * 22:29:40: The Supreme Argonian: Huh
 * 22:29:42: The Beartooth: Wot going on?
 * 22:29:45: The Supreme Argonian: Moot
 * 22:29:53: The Beartooth: But its Sunday
 * 22:29:54: Atvelonis: We have that
 * 22:29:56: Atvelonis: All Totals
 * 22:30:00: Atvelonis: @Lagi
 * 22:30:00: Blademaster Jauffre: If you want to continue about IG, message me on my TP @The Supreme Argonian
 * 22:30:02: The Great Laggi: ITS HERMAEUS MORA
 * 22:30:08: Rozty: the homestead on eso or skyrim?
 * 22:30:13: The Crusader of Truth: Caps plz
 * 22:30:15: Blademaster Jauffre: ESO I think
 * 22:30:18: Rozty: because i think that's already a thing in skyrim
 * 22:30:18: The Supreme Argonian: He doesn't have ESO he said
 * 22:30:19: Atvelonis: Skyrim
 * 22:30:24: Atvelonis: You don't build houses in ESO
 * 22:30:26: Atvelonis: Just buy them
 * 22:30:31: The Great Laggi: also my bad when i type fast my keyboa
 * 22:30:36: The Great Laggi: rd lags
 * 22:30:43: Herma-Mora's Champion: Whats going on? Did the moot begin already or its about to?
 * 22:30:47: Blademaster Jauffre: Skyrim's isn't called Homestead, but Hearthfire
 * 22:30:50: The Crusader of Truth: The moot started
 * 22:30:52: Rozty: right, no eso
 * 22:30:53: The Crusader of Truth: 1 hour and 30 minutes ago
 * 22:30:54: The Supreme Argonian: It began an hour and a half ago
 * 22:31:01: The Supreme Argonian: It's a long one
 * 22:31:03: Herma-Mora's Champion: Ah fuck
 * 22:31:11: Amulet of Kings: @The Beartooth Only not her
 * 22:31:19: Rozty: there are homesteads in skyrim though
 * 22:31:19: Amulet of Kings: *Not here
 * 22:31:24: Atvelonis: I'm not sure this topic is one we have to vote on as we already have a page that Laggi is requesting
 * 22:31:30: The Great Laggi: i mean the materials to build ONE homestead
 * 22:31:34: Rozty: so there's confusion to be had there
 * 22:31:38: The Beartooth: Damn. I thought today was Sunday. Its actually Satirday I checked my calendar
 * 22:31:44: Blademaster Jauffre: Satirday
 * 22:31:48: The Supreme Argonian: As in total materials and gold?
 * 22:31:48: Blademaster Jauffre: The day of satire
 * 22:31:53: The Supreme Argonian: Aye
 * 22:31:53: The Beartooth: Indeed
 * 22:32:00: The Supreme Argonian: Pretty sure we already have that
 * 22:32:02: The Supreme Argonian: Gimme a sec
 * 22:32:09: Atvelonis: All Totals
 * 22:32:11: Atvelonis: I linked it earlier
 * 22:32:15: The Beartooth: Oof
 * 22:32:18: The Supreme Argonian: Oh okay
 * 22:32:18: Rozty: the materials on the page are for one of them though
 * 22:32:38: Atvelonis: I think they're all the same
 * 22:32:42: Herma-Mora's Champion: What are we talking 'bout? I'm awfully late
 * 22:32:47: Blademaster Jauffre: Homestead?
 * 22:32:47: The Beartooth: Sex
 * 22:32:50: The Great Laggi: Oh, my bad
 * 22:32:53: Atvelonis: e.g. storage room in Lakeview is the same as Windstad
 * 22:32:54: Rozty: yeah, perhaps the different rooms vary
 * 22:32:58: Atvelonis: materials wise
 * 22:33:04: The Beartooth: Yeah they are
 * 22:33:06: The Supreme Argonian: Right now it's adding total materials and gold to homestead pages
 * 22:33:07: Rozty: but it should already be a thing too
 * 22:33:18: The Supreme Argonian: I don't see the harm in adding it
 * 22:33:28: The Beartooth: Agreed
 * 22:33:32: Rozty: it's already there argonian
 * 22:33:34: The Great Laggi: maybe a thing to show how much iron you need
 * 22:33:38: The Supreme Argonian: It's unnecessary but it saves lazy users some clicking
 * 22:33:53: The Beartooth: Lazy Users Have Rights
 * 22:33:55: Atvelonis: Iron is shown clearly in the tables on that page
 * 22:33:56: The Supreme Argonian: From*
 * 22:34:08: Atvelonis: There's not much else we can do to facilitate that. It's pretty clear
 * 22:34:24: The Supreme Argonian: Okay, next topic I guess?
 * 22:34:34: The Great Laggi: Error on my
 * 22:34:36: The Supreme Argonian: Crus you're presenting for Dream right?
 * 22:34:41: The Great Laggi: part
 * 22:35:00: The Great Laggi: ugh its lagging again
 * 22:35:05: Rozty: the page name is weird tho
 * 22:35:16: The Supreme Argonian: That's true
 * 22:35:17: The Beartooth: Qhats it. Called
 * 22:35:26: The Beartooth: *whats it called
 * 22:35:29: Atvelonis: All Totals
 * 22:35:33: Atvelonis: I have linked it like 3 times
 * 22:35:34: Rozty: who would type that, is it linke in the homestead page?
 * 22:35:39: The Supreme Argonian: Maybe something like "Hearthfire Homestead Totals"
 * 22:35:39: The Beartooth: Yeah that weird
 * 22:35:41: Rozty: linked*
 * 22:35:45: Atvelonis: It is linked there
 * 22:35:49: The Great Laggi: my bad, you can continue on another topic if needed
 * 22:36:06: Rozty: oh, then there's no issue
 * 22:36:27: The Supreme Argonian: Well that's that I suppose
 * 22:36:34: The Great Laggi: 😓 whoops
 * 22:36:48: The Supreme Argonian: @Crus are you presenting for Dream?
 * 22:37:16: The Beartooth: Crus dead
 * 22:37:21: The Crusader of Truth: Yes but one second because I'd feel really bad if I messed this up
 * 22:37:37: The Supreme Argonian: Lmao
 * 22:37:54: The Beartooth: One second was up a 10 seconds ago
 * 22:38:03: The Great Laggi: i already did and I Amy a little embarrassed
 * 22:38:07: The Crusader of Truth: 1 year because I'd feel really bad if I messed this up
 * 22:38:12: The Great Laggi: *am
 * 22:38:29: The Beartooth: Dont rush we have all year
 * 22:38:40: The Crusader of Truth: Yes don't worry I won't
 * 22:38:43: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 22:38:52: The Beartooth: Hey Star
 * 22:39:00: The Great Laggi: it is only February
 * 22:39:09: The Beartooth: No its March
 * 22:39:21: The Crusader of Truth: January was a really long year it's okay (Y)
 * 22:39:24: The Crusader of Truth: Okay I think I got this
 * 22:39:31: Starkiller131: All these people, and only one of them is my alt
 * 22:39:35: The Crusader of Truth: (typing...)
 * 22:39:46: The Great Laggi: i bielieve in you
 * 22:39:52: The Beartooth: Be gone
 * 22:40:14: The Great Laggi: DANGNABBIT BAD SPELLING!
 * 22:40:17: The Crusader of Truth: caps
 * 22:40:21: The Crusader of Truth: again plz
 * 22:40:26: The Great Laggi: oops
 * 22:40:34: Starkiller131: Atv is corrupt, he wouldn't let me vandalism ;(
 * 22:40:43: The Crusader of Truth: *vandalize
 * 22:40:44: The Beartooth: *vandalise
 * 22:40:54: The Beartooth: Zeds are for yanks
 * 22:40:55: The Crusader of Truth: *vandalize
 * 22:41:03: The Crusader of Truth: And we're all yank so
 * 22:41:04: Amulet of Kings: *vandalixe
 * 22:41:04: Starkiller131: Dang it, I was trying to correct it
 * 22:41:11: Starkiller131: No I'm not
 * 22:41:12: The Great Laggi: why would you vandalize
 * 22:41:38: The Beartooth: He is a Clinton supporter
 * 22:41:47: Starkiller131: Because getting the cops called on me is my goal
 * 22:41:48: The Great Laggi: oh
 * 22:41:56: The Crusader of Truth: Okay y'all bring it to a close I'm almost done typing
 * 22:42:01: Starkiller131: XD
 * 22:42:03: Starkiller131: No
 * 22:42:11: The Great Laggi: dude
 * 22:42:17: The Beartooth: I got no close
 * 22:42:27: Starkiller131: Fgh have you patrolled today?
 * 22:42:32: The Great Laggi: he is almost done
 * 22:42:38: The Crusader of Truth: Did yesterday and today
 * 22:42:39: The Crusader of Truth: Now:
 * 22:42:40: The Crusader of Truth: Alright so basically what Dream wanted to propose is that we used for the LegendsCards template, instead of using the plain . The reason for this is to increase loading speed so that Legends pages load faster, and to make formatting shorter and easier. He wanted to do this for Type and Subtype, since  at the very least Type has only 4 variables
 * 22:43:01: The Crusader of Truth: Amulet of Kings Atvelonis Away Blademaster Jauffre Herma-Mora's Champion Away KINMUNE Nathan4200 Away Nekyn Alb Away Poisoned apples Qahnaarin1997 Away RenzXVI Rozty Away Starkiller131 The Beartooth The Great Laggi Zoder @everyone
 * 22:43:03: Atvelonis: You're going to have to describe what that means
 * 22:43:03: The Crusader of Truth: oof
 * 22:43:05: The Crusader of Truth: uh
 * 22:43:09: The Crusader of Truth: sorry for name spam
 * 22:43:09: Starkiller131: Spam, oh wait I lost my powers
 * 22:43:11: Atvelonis: I don't know what does
 * 22:43:18: The Beartooth: English plesse?
 * 22:43:20: Starkiller131: Atv!!!
 * 22:43:23: The Crusader of Truth: Invoke ... invokes the template to do something
 * 22:43:30: Atvelonis: Ok
 * 22:43:30: Starkiller131: You're corrupt
 * 22:43:30: The Beartooth: Crus stop spamming
 * 22:43:34: The Crusader of Truth: Invoke = to make to do something
 * 22:43:39: Atvelonis: I know the definition
 * 22:43:45: Starkiller131: So is fgh
 * 22:43:46: The Beartooth: I was being sarcastic
 * 22:43:47: Atvelonis: What does it actually do?
 * 22:43:49: The Crusader of Truth: So basically kind of like, but makes it faster
 * 22:43:51: KINMUNE: Hello there, Bronkiin!
 * 22:43:52: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 22:43:53: Atvelonis: hi bron
 * 22:43:54: Nekyn Alb: Hi
 * 22:43:55: Bronkiin: \o yo
 * 22:43:56: The Crusader of Truth: At least, to my understanding
 * 22:43:57: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 22:43:58: Atvelonis: How does it make it faster, I should ask?
 * 22:44:03: Rozty: i have no idea what does
 * 22:44:03: The Beartooth: O/
 * 22:44:06: Bronkiin: Is this a moot? XD
 * 22:44:12: Rozty: yee
 * 22:44:13: The Beartooth: No its an orgy
 * 22:44:18: Bronkiin: Even better
 * 22:44:20: The Crusader of Truth: Problem with me presenting someone else's topic: I don't know
 * 22:44:26: Rozty: oof
 * 22:44:28: Starkiller131: Dgh
 * 22:44:32: Starkiller131: Fgh
 * 22:44:35: Atvelonis: I think it might be better for Dream to present it then
 * 22:44:40: The Crusader of Truth: Yes
 * 22:44:40: Rozty: what would the template be used for?
 * 22:44:44: The Beartooth: Summon him
 * 22:44:45: The Crusader of Truth: LegendsCards
 * 22:44:48: Atvelonis: For now let's skip this
 * 22:44:54: The Crusader of Truth: oof
 * 22:45:02: The Beartooth: Rejected
 * 22:45:04: Starkiller131: Oh this is a moot
 * 22:45:05: Rozty: what exactly in legends cards i meant but nevermind
 * 22:45:07: The Crusader of Truth: Dream probably won't ever be able to present it but okay
 * 22:45:19: The Crusader of Truth: Dream's in a bad timezone for the moot
 * 22:45:21: Rozty: rip proposal
 * 22:45:23: Starkiller131: I literally just realized that XD
 * 22:45:23: The Beartooth: Dream is dreaming
 * 22:45:25: The Great Laggi: i can’t be the only kinda tired one
 * 22:45:29: Starkiller131: I'm out
 * 22:45:34: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 22:45:38: Rozty: like, just lose sleep, it's easy to do
 * 22:45:43: Atvelonis: He can present it as a CT then
 * 22:45:44: The Crusader of Truth: @Laggi I got 16 hours of sleep last night, soo
 * 22:45:52: The Beartooth: Noice m8
 * 22:45:55: Atvelonis: Anyway, do we have any other topics?
 * 22:45:57: The Beartooth: I got 7
 * 22:46:01: Blademaster Jauffre: Doesn't look like it
 * 22:46:04: The Crusader of Truth: Okie, I'll tell him that if he doesn't see the reply himself
 * 22:46:04: The Great Laggi: oh lucky
 * 22:46:09: The Crusader of Truth: And no, doesn't seem like it
 * 22:46:20: Bronkiin: Ah Dylan hello
 * 22:46:24: The Beartooth: No other topics
 * 22:46:27: Bronkiin: Is this what your, 10th alt?
 * 22:46:30: The Great Laggi: cool
 * 22:46:30: The Crusader of Truth: btw no one clear out moot topics, (I'm pointing at you Atv)
 * 22:46:39: The Beartooth: Ooo
 * 22:46:45: Atvelonis: You can clear it out when you've made the summary then
 * 22:46:53: The Crusader of Truth: It makes it easier to archive the moot topics too
 * 22:46:56: The Supreme Argonian: Hello Bronkiin
 * 22:47:02: The Supreme Argonian: How do you know my name?
 * 22:47:09: The Crusader of Truth: Thank ye m8 :D
 * 22:47:12: Amulet of Kings: Is it over then?
 * 22:47:17: Bronkiin: Because you've had about three accounts before? XD
 * 22:47:19: The Beartooth: O_o
 * 22:47:20: The Crusader of Truth: Yes, the moot is now over
 * 22:47:21: Rozty: yup
 * 22:47:23: Bronkiin: And it says on your profile tbf
 * 22:47:27: The Beartooth: Finito
 * 22:47:27: The Supreme Argonian: Oh lol
 * 22:47:37: Amulet of Kings: o/
 * 22:47:46: Rozty: bye
 * 22:47:48: The Supreme Argonian: Ryan how dareth thee accuseth me of being a sockpuppet
 * 22:47:49: Atvelonis: If there are no other topics, then, by the power vested in me by Jimbo Wales, I declare this moot over.
 * 22:47:50: The Crusader of Truth: You may now all dance and prance and skedaddle and skidoodle