Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-27007772-20140611204941/@comment-24999978-20140723205108

JillKill87 wrote: "The Stormcloaks are not criticised for being ignorant, racist and stupid for the sole reason of opposing the Empire. Ignorant and stupid? Yes, but the racism is far more because of their views towards and treatment of other races, rather than the Empire. Again, people do not support the Empire simply for a nostalgia thrill, but because of its metaphysical important in the battle against the Thalmor which is much more than a simple, petty war for territorial gain, but an ideological, spiritual and even divine battle over the course of the universe, one in which the Empire is integral. The Stormcloaks, on the other hand, out of all of the factions, are the only mundane and, really, on the scale of things, insignifcant (excluding their disruption to the greater powers, that is) faction."

I dont see how the stormcloaks are "ignorant and stupid" just because they want to leave an empire that can no longer defend its land. thats like not wanting to be in a neighborhood overrun with crime with little assistance from law enforcement anymore. no point in staying there if its not helping be a good enviornment for you and your family.



"Comparing events in TES to the real world never works out. Every culture is a mixture of original ideas and influences from a multitude of cultures. It would be rather ignorant of the history of Cyrodiil and the Empire to simply put them down as 'Romans'."

but they are, all fictional empires are based on real life ones, Tamriel is no exception. you cannot deny the comparision the team is making between the Septim Empire and the Roman Empire towards its end, that is also ignorant to ignore.and Tamriel definitely doesnt need an Imperial run Empire in order to succeed. hammerfell realized this, christ Hammerfell beat back the Dominion by itself, Morrowind and black Marsh beat back an Akaviri invasion too proving an Empire is not needed all the time. strong independant nations working together in times of need seem like a better idea then being part of a corrupt and broken empire. Even a Nord Led Empire would not be bad, they lead the first human Empire and Talos (a Nord) founded the second Empire obviously they are great leaders. just a thought. with that said i do think its a bit of Nostalgia creeping in to some long time fans, they like the empire and dont want to see it dissolve or get replaced its a normal human mindset, to fear changes.



"Yeah, I suppose a Dominion dominated Tamriel might be favourable, if you don't mind the Thalmor unravelling Creation to return to a primordial, Dawn state of divinity (which, to be fair, you might)."

i dont disagree with that but my point was a DOminion NOT run by the Thalmore, but by say, a group of nobles or a king or queen.

"In all seriousness, though, the Dominion has probably been far better than the Empire was for Elsweyr, who likely did not understand the needs of the Khajiit nearly as much. Despite their attempts to incorporate Elsweyr into the fold, the Dominion seems to have treated the Khajiit better, and viewed them much higher than the Empire did."

true didnt even think of that, plus not to mention while they treated the beast people well, the Imperials did nothing to negotiate with the Dark Elves or even try to talk to them about how bad them enslaving Argonians and Khajit was. if they got a few points across tand the Dark Elves listened maybe Morrowind getting raided by pissed off Argonians woudlnt have happened

Apologies for the very delayed response, I have been incredibly busy lately.

To be honest, that was a half-joking statement. That said, it would be rather foolish that to deny that that the Empire does have positive qualities and benefits. Just compare the chaos of the Interegnum, for example, between the fall of the Potentate and the rise of Tiber Septim, to the Golden Age during the Third Empire. I suppose such a multi-national organisation would also be rather beneficial in terms of trade, allowing interprovincial trade to be carried out with further ease. The majority of ebony in Tamriel, for instance, is found in Morrowind, with some also found in Skyrim and areas between the Adamantine Tower and Red Mountain. The rest of Tamriel would have trade for this resource. Warring is quite common in times without an Empire, however, and trade would likely be intermittent, unreliable and variable. There other benefits, too, but it just sounds a bit like the whole 'What have the Romans ever done for us?'

No, the Third Empire is not based on the Roman Empire. There are some superficial commonalities, particularly in the Legion (their organisation, armour etc), but as I previously stated, no Tamrielic organisation or race is based on solely just one real life counterpart, and has original ideas thrown in. Just look through Cyrodiils history, particularly in the First and Second Eras. Did the Romans have an insane, time travelling quasi-cyborh with his man bull companion (who became the wife of Alessia) liberate them from an oppressiver race, or instigate a sort of space race with a rival faction, as Reman did with the Aldmeri Dominion (space in the Elder Scrolls is Oblivion, though). Again, yes, there are some recognisable similarities, but there is an incredible amount which sets apart the Empire from the Romans. The situation in Hammerfell is often referred to, for the wrong reasons, in my opinion. The Redguards boast some incredibly warriors, in terms of both individual skill (just look at Cyrus the Restless or the Sword Singers) and numbers (look at the military might of, say, Sentinel, one city state, in comparison to other militaries). The reason the Redguards were not able to expand much upon the initial, brutal success of the Ra'Gada warrior wave is because of the constant infighing between the Crowns and Forbears. During the Great War, however, the two factins fought alonside one enough. In addition, Hammerfell faced a largely shattered conventional, Dominion army after the Battle of the Red Ring, and the Dominion hardly had so many objectives in or use for Hammerfell as they had previously for Cyrodiil and, in particular, the White Gold Tower. The war was about much more than just territorial gain. Plus, the resistance formed around a core of Legion veterans, so it is not as if Hammerfell completely stood alone. As for Morrowind and Black Marsh, are you referring to the one in the Second Era? Cross continental invasions have never really fared well between Akavir and Tamriel, what with the Akaviri assault on High Rock in the First Era and the aformentioned invasion being beaten back, though I suppose one could say that the Second Akaviri Invasion was rather successful considering they found the Dragonborn, and with the failed Imperial expedition into Akavir. Really, the Empire has largely protected Tamriel for itself, and as I stated in my original comment, holds an important metaphysical place in the mythic, one which a loose band or coalition would not have. There is more to the situation than mere conventional, physical and mundane matters, as is expected of TES, I suppose. Finally, the Nords did have their own Empires, but they are not considered Tamrielic Empires. Rather, the First Empire was founded by Alessia, with the seconded founded by Reman. Tiber Septim forged the Third Empire of Man. The Nords are not really such great leaders, they were largely guided by the Colovians, they are just good soldiers to have for future expansions, a union of Colovia (and Nibenay) in addition the Nords has often boasted a military which has led to the rise of Empires. I would have thought the reason for those two nations in particular is because of the close ties Cyrodiil (particularly Colovia) and Skyrim has shared throughout most of their history, only really breaking down in the Fourth Era. Interestingly, Man aligns itself with the Padomaic ideology of change the most in TES, but people do want to see the Empire fall because they do not want to see humanity fall. I have reference the important role and position of the Empire in this capacity of protecting the championed human ideology and goals frequently.

That is a fair point.

To be fair to the Empire, as part of the incorporation of Morrowind into the Empire via the Armistice, it was illegal for the Empire to ban slavery in Morrowind. The practice was banned elsewhere in the Empire, and in Morrowind, the Empire is evidently opposed to slavery and does work to some entent to influence people into banning it, but they could not lawfully change the legal status of slavery in province. I do agree, though, that much suffering for both parties, Dunmer and Argonian, could have been averted if slavery had been disposed of before Helseth decided to.