Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-209.7.3.188-20160303204000/@comment-993964-20161023152907

Sports72Xtrm wrote: The Beautiful Princess Ashley wrote: Sports72Xtrm wrote: The Beautiful Princess Ashley wrote: the talos ban will be gone when the next great war starts (even if the empire "doesn't have the balls" to declare war, the thalmor do).

ulfric is only in it for himself. if he was doing what he does for the good of skyrim, he would have just asked torygg to secede, and maybe take up military action if torygg refused.

Titus Mede II is also a war hero. the military expertise of skyrim's jarls does not matter, as they will most likely not be on the front line. also, how does killing someone prove that ulfric is a good leader?

i also suggest that you read the thalmor dossier on ulfric stormcloak I have read the dossier on Ulfric Stormcloak and the Thalmor fear a total Stormcloak victory just as they don't desire a swift end to their rebellion. Ask yourself, how does the Thalmor profit from having a rallying figure thrust into prominence with anti-Dominion sentiment? It doesn't. Ulrific only remains an asset to the Thalmor so long as his challenge is contested, if he solidifies a Stormcloak victory, then he becomes an actual thorn in their side. As martyr, he becomes an asset even in death. Those who supported him will want vengeance and to others, it will show that the Empire will kill anyone who doesn't support the Dominion's peace will be killed or abandoned by the Empire crushing the morale for any resistance to the Thalmor. Anyone who knows Ulfric knows he is not some agent of the Dominion who wants the downfall of man and those that demonize him are misguided out of an unfounded fear that he is some unwitting pawn even if they have no rational evidence of what intrigue the Dominion wants.

Titus Mede II is no war hero. He sold half of the Redguards' province for his peace and led to them leaving the Empire, and half of Skyrim resent him for letting the Thalmor arrest and persecute the Nords unchecked, even persecuting the fervent Talos believers. To many in Skyrim he is a coward who appeased the enemy, selling out his subjects to ensure he could live another day. The Mede dynasty is stained as a symbol of the Empire's cowardice and corruption. When the Thalmor actually chooses to declare war, the Medes' will be so resented that they will never be able to lead a unified defense against the elves which is what the Dominion is counting on. To half of Tamriel, the Mede Empire are Uncle Toms.

Ulfric is a great leader because he represents a symbol of defiance against the corruption of the Empire and the Dominion, that is slowly whittling away at his people. Half of Skyrim desires him to be High King. Just because he doesn't represent a humble yes man soldier or the trope of the reluctant leader doesn't make him corrupt and his experience as a leader of a movement and a proven general is more than I can say for the Résumé of any of the yes men jarls the Empire appoints. Since the Empire has condoned the Thalmor to roam Skyrim unchecked, what's to stop the Thalmor from garrisoning an army at a Skyrim City and weak jarls who don't know a thing about military strategy easily intimidated into subservience? Military strategy is important to every leader, its naive not to think so, especially in a politically war torn climate. Markath was taken over by Reachmen bandits, that's what could happen only with elves and it was Ulric who handled it. He sees what the weak leadership of the Empire has done to his people, and technically, he's the best chance for Skyrim to not be annihilated by the Thalmor. Torygg needed to be challanged because he became a symbol of the complacent jarls who turn a blind eye to the Empire's cowardice and the Thalmor manipulating Skyrim politics unchecked. And as High King, Torygg shouldn't have to be provoked or asked to succeed. If he cannot come to the conclusion that the Empire is hurting his people, he is unworthy of his office and the fact that Ulfric killed him in a fair duel proves him a weak warrior unable to defend his people. the thalmor only fear a stormcloak victory because the rebellion draggig on would cost the empire more soldiers than a victory for either side. the thalmor don't profit from having someone who hates them in charge, but they do profit from the empire being chopped up in smaller pieces that are un likely to work together in a future war. i do not believe ulfric was directly working for the dominion at any point, but he is definitely useful to them.

the medes led a decent unified defense during the 1st war, fighting the thalmor to a standstill at the imperial city. they only lost so badly in the beginning because they were taken by surprise. the next great war will not come by surprise. i agree that he never should have signed the white-gold concordat, but what's done is done, and the empire still is the biggest threat to the dominion.

the thalmor can't just do whatever they want in skyrim, they can only enforce the white-gold concordat. that does not allow them to bring armies into skyrim's territory, and the empire will intervene should the thalmor attempt this. markarth could only be taken over by the reachmen (who aren't bandits, they're freedom fighters) bc the empire didn't have troops to spare for defense, needing them all for the war. the stormcloaks have a weaker military than the empire, so no, ulfric is not the best way to not get annihilated by the empire. killing someone in a duel only proves you're physically stronger, not that you're a better leader. The Thalmor already roam Skyrim. Their inquisitions already abduct people and torture them for information. Tell me, how do you feel about the Thorald Gray-Mane incident. Do you think its right for your neighbor to aid in kidnapping you holding you prisoner to a hostile foreign embassy, not even to be trialed by you own countrymen or even the Empire that allegedly governs you? That's like doing "pretty much what they like" to me and the Imps gave them an excuse to do it. They torture, kill, kidnapp, all in the name of enforcing the Accords and if the Imps don't let them do it, they'll say they're breaking the Talos Ban agreement by not enforcing it and threaten war.

And there are Talos worshipers in Skyrim, the Thalmor already have their excuse to invade and could spin it so that the Empire is in the wrong. You say that the Empire is stronger than the Stormcloaks. I would disagree with you since the Stormcloaks could drive the Legions from the region, though for the sake of your player agency, I'll indulge your assertion but state that only a united Empire would have been stronger than the Stormcloaks alone which it is not. Skyrim is politically divided. The Imperials are assassinating each other as evidence of Titus' potential assassination, and the Empire lacks strong leadership. The Imperials have propped up the Thalmor so that they could dictate the terms to politically weaken them in this region, and the Thalmor also now has allies in the Reachmen and other native anarchists in Skyrim. Whether we think the Stormcloak rebellion was a good idea or not is irrelevant, my question to you is do you really believe that the Empire would defend Skyrim or hand it over to the Thalmor because it's politically inconvenient? If you say they would, I would argue that they did not defend their Hammerfall province and disavowed the Imperial Legions stationed there, what's to stop them from having the same thing done to Skyrim? The Stormcloak rebellion no doubt taxed the Empire, and it's a politically problematic province with its tenacious Talos worshipers (which is against the accords) will either force the Empire to enforce the Talos ban and fan the flames of more rebellion and thus tax the Cyrodillians even more or sever ties with Skyrim as they did Hammerfall just to save themselves the headache and let the Thalmor fight to have more influence in the region. I fear that Skyrim will fight alone as the Redguards did because the Empire is politically corrupt, especially with the possible recent assassination of Titus Mede in the Dark Brotherhood storyline, and thus would also be too politically divided or weak even in Cyrodil to defend Skyrim. You say the next Thalmor invasion won't take the Empire by surprise? They already did, by dictating the terms via using the Accords that favored them and the Stormcloak rebellion to weaken the Empire. I don't know about you, but I feel less of a fool following Ulfric, whether he fights for vanity or not, at least he will fight the threats to Skyrim just to save face. The Legionaire general in an Imperial victory may be disavowed and be forced to unite an independent Skyrim out of survival.