Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-95.94.124.138-20130922100323/@comment-70.34.133.250-20140415172700

Dovahsebrom wrote:

'Eh...you should read the in-game book Sovngarde, a Reexamination. Also, on this very wiki, the Sovngarde page begins by calling it specifically the Nordic Afterlife.'

I did actually, in fact I quoted it

"I've never once seen any sources that specifically say that only Nords are allowed into Sovngarde, only that "all valiant Nords can enter Sovngarde" (which does not mean that only Nords can go there) "

that italicized part comes from the book.

Also you shouldn't take a wiki pages word for anything, especially on uncited pages.

'In the real world, different cultures/religions have different afterlife lore. Same thing here.'

"And say there is a Breton hero of Skyrim who lived a Nordic lifestyle and worshipped Nordic gods. Would it be fair if he wasn't alowed entrance into Sovngarde when he died?"


 * ^culture                                     ^religion


 * culture + religion ≠ race

'You say you've never seen where it specifically says only Nords are allowed in? Well where, and this includes the end of Skyrim's mq, have you seen/heard of anyone besides nords dwelling there? Aside from your pc if you aren't a Nord, everyone there is a Nord when you go there. All you ever DO hear about is Nords in relation to Sovngarde. If anyone were allowed in, that simply would not be the case.'

Well if your going to pull out that scenario, let me ask you this.

When have you ever seen any non-Nord character (in-game and in lore) live a Nordic lifestyle and worship Nordic gods?

The prophecy says the DB will destroy Alduin for good, but this can only be done in Sovngarde.

Where does it ever say in the prophecy that Alduin could only be destroyed in Sovngarde?

Here is the actual prophecy:

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world

When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped

When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles

When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls

When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding

The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.

Also Alduin isn't only killable when in Sovngarde, the reason why the Dovahkiin needed to kill him there was because that he was basically hidng their and rebuilding his strength, this wuote basically sums it up.

"There he devours the souls of the heroic dead to feed his power. You must find his portal to Sovngarde before he returns, stronger than ever."

-Esbern

The Dovahkiin just needed to quickly kill Alduin before he could replenish himself.

Also take note that many people say the Dovahkiin will return to Sovngarde.

"I'll look for you, friend, when at last you return to Shor's hall. The honor will be ours when you rejoin the ranks of Sovngarde."

-Hakon One-Eye

"When you have completed your count of days, I may welcome you again, with glad friendship, and bid you join the blessed feasting."

-Tsun

I did actually, in fact I quoted it

"I've never once seen any sources that specifically say that only Nords are allowed into Sovngarde, only that "all valiant Nords can enter Sovngarde" (which does not mean that only Nords can go there) "

OK, but then why does your quoted part say "all valliant NORDS can enter...". NORDS. Why say that race specifically and singularly? If your theory were correct, then it would read "all valliant WARRIORS can enter...", or something of the like. Why does it say Nords specifically though? Because it's their afterlife, that's why.

"And say there is a Breton hero of Skyrim who lived a Nordic lifestyle and worshipped Nordic gods. Would it be fair if he wasn't alowed entrance into Sovngarde when he died?"

LOL Fair? Since when is life, or afterlife for that matter, fair? Where is THAT rule written? In fact, in the ES  'verse, there's many an "unfair" divine entity, no? Either way, yes, it sure is fair if he goes to the Breton afterlife. Besides, if you truly live a Nordic lifestyle, and worship their gods, then you ARE a Nord basically anyway. That said, we actually don't know about the EW's lifestyle in that capacity. Maybe he talks about Sovngarde because that's all he ever hears about because he's in Skyrim. He could simply be completely ignorant to religions in general.

The prophecy says the DB will destroy Alduin for good, but this can only be done in Sovngarde.

Where does it ever say in the prophecy that Alduin could only be destroyed in Sovngarde?

Here is the actual prophecy:

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world

When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped

When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles

When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls

When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding

The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.

Also Alduin isn't only killable when in Sovngarde, the reason why the Dovahkiin needed to kill him there was because that he was basically hidng their and rebuilding his strength, this wuote basically sums it up.

"There he devours the souls of the heroic dead to feed his power. You must find his portal to Sovngarde before he returns, stronger than ever."

-Esbern

The Dovahkiin just needed to quickly kill Alduin before he could replenish himself.

Also take note that many people say the Dovahkiin will return to Sovngarde.

"I'll look for you, friend, when at last you return to Shor's hall. The honor will be ours when you rejoin the ranks of Sovngarde."

-Hakon One-Eye

"When you have completed your count of days, I may welcome you again, with glad friendship, and bid you join the blessed feasting."

-Tsun 4 days ago Well I only meant the DB is prophecised to kill Alduin. I didn't mean IT says he has to kill him in Sonvgarde, but that's how it sounds. My bad. No, that part you learn elsewhere. Not in the prophecy, and you're wrong about Alduin being able to be killed outside of Sovngarde. Alduin himself says, "I cannot be killed here by you you or anyone" after his FISRT defeat on the Throat of the World, in Nirn. I know I toolk his health to zero there, and he didn't die lol. In Skyrim he's either in Nirn, or in Sovngarde recharging the battery there. That's what he does. He can't be killed in Nirn by anyone, so the only other option here is Sovngarde. So Sovngarde IS the only place he can be killed. It's a simple deduction based on all the info we have on the sunject. If you still think not, then where else CAN he be killed that we KNOW of? In terms of the DB returning upon his death, well he SAVED the place from Alduin. That just may warrant an exception to the rule. Permaybehaps I'm thinkin' lol. Espcecially since he's already been there anyway. They owe ya big time, but I believe I already made that point earlier though.