Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-27007772-20140611204941/@comment-29458028-20140625065329

King in the North wrote: Except, you may want to consider the fact that there was little reason to release an utterly unknown stranger found in the prescence of Ulfric Stormcloak. What would be one perhaps innocent life compared to potentially taking out a high ranking Stormcloak officer (after all, they had no way of knowing you were not). At least attempt to the scenario in a real life-setting, rather than attacking the actions of the Empire for little reason. Most people would almost have certainly have done the same in the situation. A high ranking stormcloak officer will not wear rags... If you are saying they thought he was a spy, what the heck is he spying on...

This argument I will not buy, simply because it is crazily ridiculous, unless you say the Dragonborn was spying on Cyrodiil, but why would you spy on there when there is no reinforcements coming into Skyrim and all of the enemy is in Skyrim?

King in the North wrote: You may also want to stop only focusing on the Empire, and take a look at Ulfric's actions during the event. He was not exactly said to be an exalted liberator, considering some claim that he massacred those who opposed him, and even those who did not side with him, upon victory. Besides, it was not the Empire who promised the free worship of Talos in the city, but rather the Jarl of Markarth. After Ulfric had taken the city, what choice did the Empire have? Ulfric hardly acted honourable in his occupation, and basically held the inhabitants of the city hostage in an effort to further his agenda. It is worth considering that the ban of Talos worship was not commonly enforced in Skyrim, thanks to reluctance on behalf of the Legion, and that it was Ulfric's actions which brought the attention of the Thalmor to Skyrim to enforce ban. If your information is from the "Bear of Markath" that is obvious propaganda. It is very one sided. Ulfric killed the Fosworn because they are Fosworn. In a real military campaign, POWs are a liability and they will want revenge eventually (if left alive, no matter how kind you are to them). It is because of human rights laws the bind the world to prevent warring states from butchering them. You must lack military tactics to talk about Massacre in such a way (I don't agree to genocide, but from a purely utilitarian and militaristic point of view, "take no prisoners" is the correct way to think)

Although Ulfric was (and still is) silly, the Imperial Jarl was equally at fault, because he hired Ulfric as a mercenary and promised payment (you can't hire mercs for free, its not fair to the mercs). Plus, banning Talos worship is needed for the Thalmor to achieve their goals eventually, so they will have to get down to it someday, it was probably because they were too busy with military campaigns to actually ban anything before Ulfric's actions.

King in the North wrote: In addition, once more actually looking realistically at the situation, an independent Skyrim would obviously fare worse against the Aldmeri Dominion, particularly considering that they would still likely be divided between allegiances and would have been shattered by the Civil War. Civil wars tend not to be inconsequential events, they usually take a great toll amongst the nation, and now the nation would bereft of the support of the Legions. This is a mystery that is unsolvable. Will Skyrim fare better or worse without the Empire's presence? Nobody knows, nobody can provide a legitimate argument for either side without it getting shot down. Even if the empire won, half of Skyrim is still behind the Stormcloaks. Religious war is not something that stops when you kill the leader, a well known fact (too many real life examples). So, its a deadlock if the empire wins, that's for sure, as fanatics will never go down, which helps the AD even more.

As such, both sides being equally crappy, its like a game of cloose your poison. I would have liked a third option to side with my own side, but that was impossible in Skyrim. Which was very sad :(