Board Thread:Skyrim/@comment-12599067-20130928060857/@comment-13446185-20140206040900

Nazul Rostello wrote: Dovahsebrom wrote: Nazul Rostello wrote: Dovahsebrom wrote: 72.200.200.252 wrote: Since the Reachmen are decended from Nords the fact that the Nords were there before the Forsworn does not affect the Forsworn's status as native, since they could claim descent from the first Nord settlers and those that they interbred with. Over time this mixed race acquired its own unique culture and legitimate ruling structures and so they were in fact the invaded and wronged party. Also Talos was a vile vile man and Skyrim belongs to the Giants. Reachmen were born in the Western Reach meaning they are native to High Rock, not Skyrim. Also Reachmen weren't bred from the first Nordic settlers, they were born during the Skyrim Conquests; the Reachmen actually have very little Nordic blood in them and are much more descended from Altmer than even most Bretons. The Reachmen never in their lives established a rule over the Reach that could be considered anywhere near as legitimate as Skyrims ruling Kingdom (which the Reach belonged to). Considering Orsinium was founded by an Orc chieftain years after High Rock was established as a Bretonic Kingdom., it's safe to assume that the Reachmen also wanted their own city-state within the two kingdoms (The Reach & Western Reach), except they want to be independent and free from foreign influence. Orcs existed in High Rock long before Bretons did, in fact there is evidence orcs were in Tamriel before any other Mer. Yes. But Orsinium was created after High Rock became a kingdom. Before the Atmorans founded the First Nordic Empire (Skyrim), that snowy region was known as "Mereth", a land which was once inhabited by clans of the Dwemer and the Falmer. Solstheim was part of Skyrim before the High King gave it to the Dunmer.

It's not about who were there first, it's about independence. Much like Orcs, they likely are outcasts trying to be recognized. Come to think of it, perhaps there is a problem with the self-determination. Especially during the aftermath of the Skyrim Civil War, that the war is to determine whether or not Skyrim becomes an independent kingdom which is politically free of the Empire. Depends on the canon ending. (Which is also a key for Reachmen independence.) 'Yes. But Orsinium was created after High Rock became a kingdom.'

Well actually when Orsinium was created High Rock was just a bunch of city-states. Orsinium never would have risen to glory if it formed within a fully united High Rock. The reason Orsinium was attacked in the first place was not because the land was owned already but because the Orcs wanted to have full control of the Bjoulsae River.

Before the Atmorans founded the First Nordic Empire (Skyrim), that snowy region was known as "Mereth", a land which was once inhabited by clans of the Dwemer and the Falmer.

At first Skyrim was part of the Kingdom of Atmora. It wasn't till 1E 143 that Skyrim became its own independent Kingdom, by this time almost all Falmer were gone so there was no one to stop them. The Dwemer lived in scattered city-states across Skyrim, they held no actual Kingdom for the area.

Solstheim was part of Skyrim before the High King gave it to the Dunmer.

Yah, so what? If a king wants to relinquish his holdings and give them to someone else that is totally fine.

I think your not getting my point here, lets look at this another way;

Let's say you (the nords) have an apartment (the Reach), and then a roomate (the Reachmen) moves in and you share the apartment; but this roomate does not really do anything they are just sort of living there. The roomate then complains about not having his own apartment and then the roomate decides to take all your sh*t and kick you out of yours.

Would you just let your useless roomate do that?