Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-27007772-20140611204941/@comment-26356342-20150508033344

116.68.123.248 wrote: College Mage: Ferris wrote: Pink Slim wrote: College Mage: Ferris wrote: So wait, for the Stormcloak supporters, you side with Ulfric because the empire isn't lead by a Septim and believe that Skyrim on its own can beat the Thalmor? They couldnt beat the empire in their own civil war, and the Empire only just barely lost to the Thalmor. Transitive property suggestes Skyrim by itself, weakened by a civil war couldnt hold its own. I don't say the stormcloaks on their own can beat the thalmor, but unlike the empire they actually have a chance of receiving aid from hammerfell or morrowind. Plus if the stormcloaks win it will likely force highrock to leave cyrodill, seeing as they're surrounded by countries that would likely impede their trade with the only other members of the empire; so no I don't don't think they would be alone.

First of all the empire win the war against the Aldmeri Dominion, the emperor just decided to quit instead of finishing them off. Secondly, most soldiers in skyrim are from skyrim, so it stands to reason that many of them, and their offspring, would join the new nord army instead of joining the legion.

The last thing to note is that skyrim didn't even have to fight the thalmor, they just have to wait, cyrodill would be stupid to Let their enemies march through the heart if the empire, so unless the AD waskyrim start a war with anyone other than skyrim they will have to sail around, and seeing as they will likely have allies in hammerfell it's likely they'll hear news of an Aldmeri fleet sailing to skyrim, giving them time to prepare while that sail around highrock. And, if the fleet they send is large enough, hammerfell and cyrodill can attack the rest of the Aldmeri territories.

The only ways skyrim would lose against the AD are if cyrodill just let's the AD army through, or they prepare long enough to attack everyone, though cyrodill (and potentially highrock) will be the only countries that wouldn't also be preparing for the upcoming war. Well Hammerfell isnt known for helping anyone other than themselves for the most part.. but that aside, Skyrim wouldnt let any of the Alik'r within city limites, i doubt they'd be open to the idea of working them them. The same could be said of Morrowind, they dont have the best relations, and I don't imagine that it would improve with Ulfric in charge. Ulfric isnt going to ask Morrowind for aid, not saying he himself is racist like everyone else tends to, but he doesn't strike me as the type to strategically call to them for help... and if the Thalmor get to morrowind first, theres absolutely no way (even with Hammerfell's help) to win in a war fighting at multiple fronts like that. High Rock is still with the Empire isnt it? (honestly can't remember) So they couldnt ask them for aid either, they'd be pretty much alone in that fight.

The only reason Hammerfell isnt still part of the Empire is because the Empire was essentially trying to do damage control, they signed a treaty and Hammerfell refused to listen to the terms, so rather than upset the "relative peace" they just had to say "screw it, they're not with the empire anymore!" Once the Empire gets back up and ready to fight, who's to say they wouldnt ask Hammerfell for help? (I doubt Hammerfell would help, having been scourned.. but perhaps if the right terms are presented to them they could be persuaded).

At least with Skyrim still part of the Empire, the Thalmor have to spread out over larger territories. Weakened as they are now, they can't maintain control over THAT much territory, annexing Skyrim makes it easier for them to invade. United we stand! Divided we fall!

You have probably one of the best points I've read tho, Skyrim only having to essentially sit and wait. Provided something (like rebuilding their numbers) keeps them busy... but With the white-gold concordant, Cyrodill is obligated to let them invide using Cyrodill as a jumping off point. They can't say "no" that's a breach of the treaty. They arent sending any aid to Hammerfell after it declared independance, why wouldn't they allow the AD to use their border to attack Skyrim? As a side note, Skyrim needs supply lines to stay open, as the land isnt the best for farming and such. An independant Skyrim could face an embargo on all trade with the Empire entirely.

Cyrodill has no reason to come to the aid of Skyrim if it's not part of the Empire, and Hammerfell has no reason to lose men defending a land they're hardly even allowed into. Hammerfell may warn Skyrim, but they wont send ships to intercept. Skyrim on its own has the Cyrodil border, High Rock, and the Northern border (tho admittedly with all the ship wrecks the nothern border might be fine) to defend. If the AD got Morrowind involved, theres absolutely no way they could defend themselves. At least General Tulius mentiones preparing to fight the AD again, which could also mean the other generals know that's the next step, but can't openly discuss it.

To me, it all points to "Side with the Empire", more men, more supplies, more strategic advantages. Stormcloak or Empire, we all hate the Thalmor, lets just fight them together. For the love of Talos do you seriously believe that the Thalmor would try to land an invasion force via the sea of ghosts? Are you that stupid? Or what, the Empire would just sit back and allow an entire thalmor army to pass through Cyrodiil? And would the Thalmor even try that? To send an army through Cyrodiil would be foolish to say the least.. What if the Empire turned on them? Then their Army would be caught between the Nords on the north and the Imperial legions in the south, It would be the Battle of the Red Ring all over again..

The empire obviously had greater losses during the Great War but the Dominion had huge losses too, and men breed much faster than altmer. The Dominion is probably in no shape to start a new war just 30 years after the old one. Asking if I'm stupid nearly invalidates your whole argument, I'd suggest you skip that part next time. Furthermore, I even suggested that route wouldnt be the best and that it COULD be fine. But to defend my own point, why wouldnt they attack using the sea of ghosts? We saw a group of them in Solstheim, it's not unheard of for them to use the route most (such as yourself) would assume would be the safest from invasion. Assuming that point left unguarded would be totally ok I'd be forced to ask if you yourself were the stupid one. That route would also give them direct acess to Windhelm which if Ulfric is in charge, would be his seat of power.

Why wouldnt the Empire allow the dominion to march through Cryodill? They signed a peace treaty, they allowed justicars into skyrim, The Empire in its current state isnt strong enough to defend itself, and with an independant Skyrim, what reason do they have to protect them? If the nords fought for themselves and their independence, That breaks all ties to the empire according to the WGC.The empire needs that peace so they can eventally build a counter offensive. If the nords spent all this time killing legionaires driving them out, then surely they can defend themselves when the AD come knocking. On top of all that an independant Skyrim would just brag to the Dominion they're back to worshipping Talos openly, and if you subscribe to the idea the Thalmor are trying to eradicate the towers, and stamp out men, where do you think they'll turn their attentions to? After a civil war, they would be far too weak to defend themselves alone, since no one is coming to their rescue. It's this type of short sighted thinking that got Skyrim into this Civil war to begin with.