Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-1600847-20161103125247/@comment-30011802-20161108182655

''' The Stormcloaks are not wasting Skyrim's resources! '''

Well first let me say that I’ll be the first to admit this is mostly an argument of perspective. Mostly.

However there are a few key points, and some interesting dialogue in the files that I know people are mostly not aware of.

First lets start with perspective. I’ll be reiterating some previous arguments but it’s necessary.

From the Imperial perspective, Ulfric is causing this war by revolting, and they’re keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim by fighting Ulfric and preventing Talos worship.

I’m going to stop there for a minute because all of this is wrong and a matter of pure denial whether you support the Imperials or not.

Ulfric did not start this war. Ulfric knew that the Imperials would react the way they did, yes, but that does not make him the starter of this war. Torygg accepted his duel, he allowed Ulfric, a Jarl to challenge him directly. Even if this duel is against Imperial law, the King of Skyrim allowed it anyway.

Skyrim law allows the Jarls to challenge the king or queen of Skyrim to a duel, and if the King is slain, a moot is called and then a new king or queen is decided. This law may be in contradiction with Imperial law, but it was never officially declared illegal. You might think that Empire law automatically overrules Skyrim law, but consider that in the Empire, slavery is illegal, and yet the Dunmer of Morrowind were allowed to continue the practice regardless. That shows that province law is only stomped on when inconvenient to the Empire, and allowing the Jarls of Skyrim to decide for themselves who would be King was completely out of the question.

That is what the Empire did. They did not come to make Ulfric answer for the death of Torygg, or they’d address the duel and call it illegal. They don’t even call it a duel, they call it outright murder. They don’t even acknowledge the existence of the duel, though the Solitude court does.

Why? Because if they did, they’d have to bring up the fact that they are impeding on Skyrim law and that by Skyrim law, what Ulfric did was legal. And that the Imperials are overruling Skyrim law because it is inconvenient to have a King that dislikes the Empire and wishes them to secede.

And if they did secede, the Thalmor would be removed from Skyrim altogether, and anyone that’s read my previous entries know that logistically, the Thalmor cannot invade Skyrim anyway, so the Empire do not in fact keep the Empire out, they are in fact the sole reason the Thalmor are there in the first place.

So lets be clear on that from the get go. Ulfric is not the one who pushed things to war, that was a decision made by the Empire because they want to hold onto their power. Why, because they’re more concerned about themselves, meaning Cyrodiil than the betterment of the entire Empire. Bethesda made that clear when they retconned Chancellor Ocato’s words, that the Empire went to protect their provinces during the Oblivion Crisis. It is either a retcon or a bold faced lie, which we learned ourselves in the Dragonborn DLC:

 The Dragonborn- “ Why do the Dunmer hate the Empire?”

 Adril Arano- “During the Oblivion Crisis, gates to the plane of Oblivion opened all over Morrowind. The Empire pulled most of its forces out of Morrowind to deal with the gates in their own homeland, leaving us virtually defenseless. We had no standing army at the time, just uncoordinated pockets of resistance.”

 The Dragonborn- “ How did the Dunmer survive this at all?”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;"> Adril Arano- “House Redoran took charge and was slowly able to build an army. It took years, but it became a force to be reckoned with. When the Argonians invaded years later, House Redoran’s army was able to prevent them from sweeping across all of Morrowind. It would be fair to say that House Redoran literally saved the Dunmer people from destruction.”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Moving on, the Empire not only is too selfish to protect anyone but themselves, but also are not the benevolent caretakers of Nords or anybody. They only want to preserve Cyrodiil’s power, and they will sacrifice and bleed dry everyone else to do so.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">They showed that when they abandoned Hammerfell to the Thalmor when they refused the White Gold Concordat, even when legion soldiers refused to abandon them before during the war despite their orders to leave them to protect Cyrodiil, and they did so again when they couldn’t even be bothered to send soldiers to do their own dirty work.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">And yes I know they say they can’t because they’re watching their southern border, so their answer instead is to run Skyrim’s economy and resources into the ground to protect their own interests, at the cost of Nord lives and money with little or no sacrifices of their own? They literally sent one of their men to go to Skyrim and demand Elisif use her hold’s resources to start a war with Ulfric and interrupt the moot. Here’s the proof:

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000a9392

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000367f7

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Conversation 1:

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Erikur: “I’ve heard the Empire plans to levy a tax on our trading ships. Falk, you’ve got to do something about this.”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Falk: “General Tullius needs more money for the war effort. We need the funds to arm and provision more troops.”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Erikur: “Then let’s increase the taxes on the farms and merchants. We can’t afford to lose the loyalty of the ship captains.”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Falk: “We know full well about your investment in shipping ventures, Erikur. I’ve also heard troubling rumors about dealings between you and the crew of that pirate ship, the Red Wave. Thankfully, Jarl Elisif cares far less about your lost profits than she does about winning the war!”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Erikur: “The Jarl would be wise to remember that it is her thanes - and my profits - that are paying for this war.”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Conversation 2:

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Elisif: “As you know, Solitude’s coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. Thane Erikur, you have a strong head for business. What do you suggest?”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Erikur: “This is an unfortunate but unavoidable ebb in revenue. But as long as we continue to support the Empire, our sacrifices will be well rewarded.”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Bryling: “Listen to you, speaking of sacrifice. You’ve never gone hungry a day in your life, Erikur!”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Elisif: “And what would my impetuous Thane Bryling suggest, instead?”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Bryling: “Simple. Let the Empire fight its own war, with its own funds, and without hijacking our supplies and soldiers. Let Haafingar rebuild.”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Erikur: “My lady… Surely you’re not that naive. Such foolishness would only leave us defenseless. The rebels would storm the palace in an afternoon.”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Bryling: “The Stormcloaks only rebel because the Empire uses Skyrim as its personal larder. The more they take, the more support the rebels gain!”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">Elisif: “That is quite enough. Perhaps I will raise these issues when I have an audience with General Tullius.”

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">I posted about this earlier here:

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">http://colonelkillabee.tumblr.com/post/143548990670/here-we-go-again

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">After a good friend of mine named Tdroid found this dialogue and shared it with me. Wish we were aware of this years ago but there it is.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">The Empire can’t even be bothered to fight their own battles, instead they use the resources and people of the Bank of Skyrim for their war mongering. If they really wanted to do what was best for the greater good and to defeat the elves, they’d have let the moot take its course, and unite with an independent Skyrim if Ulfric won, having an ally against the elves with full resources and a full army free of the casualties of a civil war because the Empire couldn’t let go of their source of free silver and bodies to protect themselves.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,"LucidaGrande",sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;">So who’s really wasting resources here? Who’s really serving the Thalmor’s wishes? Probably the guys that gave them a fucking Embassy in Skyrim, and hint, it wasn’t Ulfric.