Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-8248675-20130606043855/@comment-13446185-20140425032042

Harold Burned-Mane wrote:

Dovahsebrom wrote: Hjatli Early-Beard, Talos Stormcrown, and Tiber Septim are all different people. They are all the same person. Hjalti. The Oversouls thing is a mixture of Hjalti with another one of the Shezarrine to create said Oversoul. Even so, those oversouls are all theories. All that is know is that Hjalti's soul is a part of them. If Zurin's and Wulfarth's souls are a part of Tiber and Talos ,respectively, is not confirmed.

Also there are many references to Tiber and Zurin being two separate people. Like in Tiber's conquests in Morrowind and even the Mantella thing. The only way that could be possible is if Zurin gave his soul to Hjalti, turning him into Tiber, but remained alive in his own body. Wulfarth shows up in Tiber's conquests after Talos is crowed Emperor, meaning he could have separated from Hjalti to let Zurin's soul into him. That would also explain why Tiber couldn't use the Thu'um(apart from the slit throat), because Talos's thu'um could be attributed to Wulfarth's soul.

Either way this part of TES lore is extremely confusing. This whole mantling thing is a mess and becomes even more convoluted when you add Oversouls into the mix. It sort of makes sense but at the same time it doesn't, that is what the whole Oversouls thing is like. If Zurin's and Wulfarth's souls are a part of Tiber and Talos ,respectively, is not confirmed.

Depends on what you mean by confirmed, do you accept MK's lore?

if so read this;

"The second to see the Brass God was the Enantiomorph. You may know them individually as Zurin Arctus and Talos. The Oversoul was known to the world as Tiber Septim They gave birth to their Mantella"

-Skeleton Man

Now that I think about it, this quote mentions Talos. Meaning that Tiber Septim may actually be a mixture of Zurin Arctus and Talos Stormcrown, instead of Hjalti (I may have to do some more editing).

Though the Enantiomorph would be unbalanced if it was Hjalti-Wulfharth so it was probably just referring to Hjalti.

The whole Wulfharth Hjlati Zurin mixture has definitely been confirmed though. The mantella is in a sense the Heart of Talos (similar to the Heart of Lorkhan), it was made from Arctus, Hjalti, and Wulfharth. Take note of the fact that Talos is never mentioned as a god until the Underking was reuinted with the mantella and ascended.

Also Talos incarnated himself as a man named Wulf in Morrowind.

Wulf... Wulfharth.

To much to be a coincidence.

'Also there are many references to Tiber and Zurin being two separate people. Like in Tiber's conquests in Morrowind and even the Mantella thing.'

They are two seperate people.

Think of Vivec, there is two of him, the mortal and the god; Vehk and Vivec.

The same is applied to the Talos Oversoul just a bit more complicated

1. Wulfharth L 2. Hjalti O 3. Ysmir R 4. Talos K 5. Arctus H 6. Septim A N

Note how they are all listed as seperate entities.

They are comprised of each other yet seperate. It is similar to the whole aspects concept with gods (Shor = Shezarr = Sheorr = Lorkhan, but they are all seperate)

Wulfarth shows up in Tiber's conquests after Talos is crowed Emperor, meaning he could have separated from Hjalti to let Zurin's soul into him

Wulfharth shows up before then, he comes to Hjalti at the battle of Old Hroldan.