Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-8248675-20130606043855/@comment-13446185-20140427231708

That hasn't been confirmed. Also the Underking couldn't have interacted with Wulfarth or Zurin because they didn't exist anymore after the Underking Oversoul was created. What hasn't been confirmed?

Yes, I'm just saying that hypothetically, the Underking could have met Zurin and Wulfharth.

Not really. Talos has mantled Lorkhan but the two are pretty different. Talos is the God of War and Governance. He is the God Hero of Mankind. Lorkhan is considered a hero by the Nords because of Shor but other than that the two are very different. Talos and Lorkhan are actually very similar. War and Governance are merely what the Nine Divines Church associate with Talos.

Talos and Lorkhan are both the patron gods of man. Talos also took up Lorkhan's role in Mundus, which is fortifying the wheel of Convention. In C0DA Talos even morphs into Lorkhan.

Its not fanon. When they introduced Miraak, retconning Alessia as the First Dragonborn, Bethesda explained that despite Alessia being considered a Dragonborn she was not the same kind of Dragonborn as others like the LD, Talos and Miraak. Look at [Dragonborn (Lore)#Trivia|this]. It is however a MK statement, so take it with a grain of salt. Ah here it is

Stay good.

''Alessia didn't have the power to absorb dragon souls. Hers was a much more nuanced power: to dream of liberty and give it a name and on her deathbed make Covenant with the Aka-Tusk.''

Perhaps if you had read her histories of the Dragon War, this would be more clear.

I'd honestly rather not believe this, as all it does is heavily contradict established TES lore. If TIL didn't think it important to include in the Library, I don't either.

But I will say that it doesn't necessarily prove that the emperors aren't true dragonborns.

They could have learned the thu'um from the Greybeards. They wouldn't even have to train for years to learn since if they were true dragonborns they could have learned the thu'um from the Greybeards super easily. By absorbing the Greybeards's knowledge on the words of power like the LD did in High Hrothgar. Yes, but they didn't. None of them went to the Greybeards.

I know, but the other Septims are descendants of Tiber/Talos. They were dragonblooded but if they were true dragonborns the couldn't learned the thu'um or been called to the Greybeards. It didn't have to be all the Septims but for non of them to be called there? For none of them to learn the thu'um? That is highly unlikely. It's sort of a paradoxical situation in my opinion. Without other Dragons, the emperors were unable to learn the Thu'um, and without the Thu'um, the Greybeards would not call them.

There was also the Ysmir Pelinal. Though was he before or after Wulfarth? I know the original Pelinal was born before Wulfarth but the Ysmir Pelinal was never given a date. Also that quote doesn't state that Wulfarth was the first Ysmir, it just states that he adopted and was adopted by the Nords as Ysmir. Which means that he adopts the title/name Ysmir, meaning that it already existed before him. Which could mean that the Pelinal Ysmir was the first or that there must have been one before Wulfarth. Pelinal-Ysmir was before Wulfharth, but the specifics on this are very iffy, he is only briefly mentioned in Before the Ages of Man

However, that's not my point, my point is that Wulfharth was the first Ysmir to be worshiped as a god.

''Wulfharth adopts and is adopted by the Nords then. Ysmir the Grey Wind''

Wulfharth was adopted into the Nordic Pantheon, but the Nords forgot who Ysir truly was do to his heavy connections to Lorkhan.

But if Wulfarth was an incarnation of Pelinal then why would Wulfarth's name be there instead of Pelinal. But I guess that would be nitpicking. Because this is confusing stuff.

So you really believe that all the Septims were individually blessed by Akatosh? The Septims were blessed as a whole. He blessed Hjalti and his descendants. Just like he did to Alessia and her descendants in the deal he made with her about Amulet of Kings. They were all blessed either way. Also I don't consider Hjalti a dragonborn.

Note how the Storm, Wulfarth, stopped the arrows but it was Hjalti that shouted the gates apart. It wasn't the Storm, it was Hjalti. He shouted down the walls of Old Hrol'dan, and his men poured in. Note the "he" and "his". That isn't Wulfarth pretending to be Hjalti, that really is Hjalti. When he combined with Wulfarth to become able to use the Thu'um. It was Talos.

Ysmir is Wulfarth. He does know the Thu'um but Hjalti/Talos also learned it from him when they talked in that night. He cannot use it without Wulfarth though, since that knowledge comes from him being part of the oversoul. Exactly Hjalti cannot use the Thu'um. It was Talos and Ysmir who knew it.

Its not questionable. He has dragonblood, his grandson had dragonblood, his brother had dragonblood, his niece had dragonblood. It wasn't because of Wulfarth since he wasn't a part of the Tiber Oversoul, it was Hjalti. They weren't necessarily Hjatli's children you know. They are believed to be the children of Tiber Septim.

Also as I've said many times, Dragonblood isn't hereditary.

So what you are basically saying that you are right and the Wiki and the UESP are wrong?

I am noting the between. Are you? Are you noting the penumbra? Are you noting the mention of the combination of Anu and Padomay being Aurbis? this picture shows, in the left corner, what that sentence means. The very book you point to as evidence shows in the Aurbis section that it is Anu and Padomay that make up Aurbis. And two sites disagree with you. Sithis is the birthed Soul of Padomay while Anuiel is the birthed soul of Anu. It was Sithis and Anuiel that created the things in Aurbis. Though I'm pretty sure that the Daedra were created by Padomay while the Aedra were created by both Padomay and Anu. While Sithis remains in the Void, or is the Void. Anuiel most likely remains in Aetherius, or could be Aetherius. They can't be Aurbis if they are present in Aurbis. But Anu and Padomay aren't in Aurbis, they are Aurbis.

So what you are basically saying that you are right and the Wiki and the UESP are wrong?

The Aurbis is Anuiel/Sithis

''Thus was born Sithis, who was the sum of all the limitations Anuiel would utilize to ponder himself. Anuiel, who was the soul of all things, therefore became many things, and this interplay was and is the Aurbis''

-The Monomyth

''As the process of subcreation continued, both Anu and Padhome awakened. For to see your antithesis is to finally awaken. Each gave birth to their souls, Auriel and Sithis, and these souls regarded the Aurbis each in their own part''

Vehk's Teachings (nevermind the Auriel, I'm pretty sure that was a typo on MK's part as putting Auriel in that position makes no sense, he probably means Anuiel)

I think I see where the problem is here with this argument,

I accidentally said this;

''They reflect the Enantiomorph made by Anuiel and Sithis, which resulted with the creation of something new (the Aurbis). ''

Replace Anuiel and Sithis with Anu and Padomay. The "something new" is Anuiel-Sithis (Aurbis).

Sorry my bad.

Let me show you what I mean


 * Anu                                         Padomay                                                                    Talos                                         Arctus

Soul of Anu (Anuiel)        Soul of Padomay (Sithis)                                                     Soul                                           Soul


 * Aurbis                                                                                                                    Tiber Septim
 * (Anuiel-Sithis)                                                                                                            (Talos-Arctus)

After writing basically three essays (the second one I actually had to write twice because I accidentally pressed the quote button on a comment after finish it, so four essays) in one day, I'm starting to feel like we should stop this argument.

Especially seeing as you seem to now agree with me on my original point.

Hjatli Early-Beard, Talos Stormcrown, and Tiber Septim are all different people.