User blog comment:Zippertrain85/Why the Stormcloaks are right part 2/@comment-9156240-20130604214324/@comment-7371906-20130605160013

Okay this is going to be long. "groan"


 * "Ulfric is racist."


 * "If you want proof on Brunwulf fighting in the Great War, you might as well be asking for proof on whether or not anything actually happened pre-game. How do you know the Great War ever even happened? You don't. You rely on in-game dialogue and the in-game books. In reality, you have no idea whether any of that actually happened or if, in fact, everyone in Skyrim is lying to your face. The "proof" you're looking for comes from his mouth and from what other characters say about him. You could also take note that he is the only Jarl without a housecarl and is always wearing armor. He also takes part in fights if the Dragonborn is being attacked. These things could be examples of military experience".


 * Why would Burnwulf being a soldier in the Great War be important in anyway in the context of the Ulfrics racism exactly? Taking part in a random fight in the middle in the street for someone you barely know isn't a show of military experience in anyway considering he is actually considerately weak in battle and instead trying use his military claims to get him out of trouble he just starts futilely hacking away with a Iron dagger against a fully armored Windhelm guard but anyway Burnwulf is not a spy considering there would be no evidence to actually prove whether or not he has any involvement with the legion anymore but there is a spy and it is most likely from the Dunmer due to evidence located inside the second floor of the New Gnisis Cornerclub.


 * The whole "Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is a lousy excuse to let people die. That phrase should only ever be used if the consequences are dire and there is no possible way to save everyone. It is very possible for Ulfric to save a Nordic village and save a Khajiit caravan. That sort of mentality isn't appropriate for the sort of situation you set up.


 * Wasn't that the mentality of the Empire when they handed away Hammerfell to the Thalmor causing them to continue fighting no dubt costing lives of many more people, disbanding the Blades and allow them to assassinate the remaining members, and agreeing to allow Talos worship punishable by death after they signed the White-Gold Concordatafter the Great War basically legalizing Thalmor murder of anyone they might well please regardless to the fact that agreeing to this treaty would put not only many people to unjust death but destroy any military advantage by allowing tour enemy to enter your lands to gain knowledge on terrain and military facilities and causing military strife to weaken the Empire from the inside and if the situation was so dire then how did a province that never took breaks even lost the southern portion of their land during the start of Great War held their own for more than a decade against the Thalmor while the only province that was only majorly affected by the war was Cyrodiil and Hammerfell and no one helps the Khajiit caravans they cant enter any hold in any part of the province even in Imperial controlled ones they even state this themselves Ulfric isn't doing anything considerately vile. he wont help the Dunmer because they wont contribute anything to the war or to the hold in general he isn't singling out any race in his hold considering that there are three Dunmer with jobs and own property within the hold such as Idesa Sadri a Live-in nanny for Clan Cruel-Sea, Luaffyn a bard working in the Candlehearth Hall, Belyn Hlaalu who owns a farm outside of Windhelm. Imperials surprisingly regardless of the war are able to live in Windhelm without prejiduce such as Adonato Leotelli Drama writer, Orthus Endario office manager of the East Empire Company, Quintus Navale assistant of Nurelion in the The White Phial, and Viola Giordano a woman that used to be married to a Imperial Legion captain. Not to mention there are surprisingly  four Altmer living in the city such as Ulundil who owns the stable in Windhelm, Arivanya his wife, Nurelion the owner of The White Phial, and Niranye a merchant in Windhelm that only recently arrived in Windhelm and was able to Buy property and gain the trust of the citizens of Windhelm she even states in her dialogue that she was treated unfairly at first but worked her way up to being a normal working class citizen something that the Dunmer failed to do after a good century and she came directly from the Summerset isle and more Brunwulf Free-Winter isn't the only person living in Windhelm people I swear this person's dialogue has been used so many times in debates that they dont even take in account of the other people residing in Windhelm also before anyone brings up the segregation of the Argonians in the dock's this is most likely due to the Dunmer being refuges of the Red Year they were attacked by the Argonians and forced to flee to Windhelm to seek refuge and also if you played Morrowind the Nords of Skyrim are saints compared to what they do to the Argonians, Khajiit, and even to some human races they even outright stated by a person in one of their cities in game that every out lander should get their throat slit by any Dunmer in their right mind or something like that there was even a quest involving two Khajiit slaves and two Dunmer slavers one of the slavers ask to find a way to make one of their slaves to stop complaining well you find out that both Khajiits were force feed bottles of Skooma (With the Bottle) to the point where one of the two Khajiit's stomach was ruptured and was likely dieing from internal bleeding their only complaint was he would stop complaining and the only illegal thing they did was drug smuggling since slavery was culturally tied in their society. you think the conditions of the Dunmer are bad most of the Slaves are forced to work and live in plantations also some werent even given clothes some walked around in cages naked at least the Dunmer get their own homes.


 * The Thalmor still don't really enforce the Talos worship ban. There are Talos shrines scattered all over Skyrim that are still intact. There is an entire building in Markarth dedicated to Talos, a huge shrine in Whiterun, and a small shrine in Riften. If the Thalmor were really that serious, they would have these shrines taken down or blocked off from the public. This evidence makes Ulfric's cause seem baseless.


 * They do its evidenced here most are just hidden or out of their jurisdiction and the Shrine in Solitude has been taken down. The reason why they dont take down the shrine in Stormcloak controlled lands is because they dont have jurisdictions there ant they actually attack you in sight if you have the Amulet of Talos on without of any sort of trial at all they just attempt to cut you down where you stand also the temple in Markarth isn't taken down is mainly because the  agent or leader sent there is not very motivated to do anything he just lazes around using his diplomatic power to his advantage to do what ever he wants he states it in his dialog somewhat


 * "Skyrim belongs to the Snow Elves."


 * No not really they came in the same way the Nord's came in only much earlier the Falmer most likely descend            ed the same way every other Mer race they most likely descended from the Aldmer which came from Aldmeris. The Aldmer left the province and entered mainland Tamriel to settel into the land so yeah they aren't really the natives either they have as much claim to the land as much as the Nords do also their degeneration is self inflicted again as stated by Knight-Paladin Gelebor they had a choice they could have just denied it go to some other Mer controlled province mass an army and take back their land but for some reason their most likely their own pride prevented them from leaving their land to regroup for no reason and the war with the Nords spanned for many years stated once again by Knight-Paladin Gelebor at any point couldn't they just stop and ask for peace and apologize for the mindless slaughter of Nedic Men, Women, and children well I guess not and what person in their right mind would let anyone live with them if they tried to slaughter his entire species all out of paranoia or selfish power really.


 * "Uhm... I believe the word you're looking for is secede and not succeed. "Torygg would have seceded if Ulfric had asked him to."


 * It is said in-game that Torygg repsected Ulfric. Torygg- being a successor and not exactly the most experienced king or militarist, was probably unsure of what to do. The reason he didn't secede beforehand is likely because he was uncertain how to or whether to. If Ulfric had asked him to, provided sufficient evidence on why it was a good idea to do so, and told Torygg any plans he had on doing so without having millions slaughtered, Torygg would have had little reason not to secede.


 * The result would have been the same either way if Torygg secedes the Empire would just mount a war that would just take Skyrim back to their territory the only problem is Torygg was selected by the empire to be a puppet leader do we even know if he would be able to lead a defense against the Empire he hasn't been in any sort of conflict so it is unlikely he is very combat experienced and if he would mount a resistance he might just surrender to avoid any damage then the same out come would happen he would get killed by someone else who wants to continue and even more people might die considering all of Skyrim is involved if he secedes and also if he was faced with an opponent that he know that he couldn't win why didn't he just say no its not like he has to lose anymore respect considering that he agreed to the concordat making most Nords lose any confidence in him anyway and when asked by Sayma she says he wasn't really a very popular high king in the first place he had nothing to lose when he would say no but everything when he accepted.


 * "Ulfric acted childish at the meeting at High Hrothgar."


 * Yes this claim would have nothing to do with anything involved in the context of the topic but it allows us to look at his psychology which describes him as a brash and very direct person without compromise, because I had someone said to me that Ulfric is fooling everyone and he only wants to be high king well his actions here would contradict that statement by the very core of his personality alone and at the end of the Civil war he sated that he would let the Moot instead of just taking it himself doesn't support his claim at all in anyway.


 * "Ulfric is a bad leader because he got captured at the beginning of the game."


 * Yes he did by an ambush but in the context in the circumstances of his capture Tullius is good in planning ambushes and tracking his enemies while Ulfric is Better at large scale assaults considering that he is able to take an entire city in the other side of Skyrim during the Makath incident and well at least you can say that the Empire has a really well trained generals but awful Emperors and very late reaction time which which is hampered extremely by their complete lack of any advantage against their enemy by allowing them to go around and mindlessly kill their citizens but any way irrelevant to the topic at hand. Ulfric does surrender but for the sake for his men meaning he actually cares about the well being of his men thinking that they would be spared if he would be executed instead but of course the empire being "the paragons of a competent government" instead of having a trial of war crimes against Ulfric to point out any atrocities that they want to cite against him while having him gagged under the notion of having him gagged to prevent him from using his Thu'um so he wouldn't testify in the safety of a imperial controlled castle walls with many guards to restrain him they which would have all gone to the Empires advantage greatly opted to instead have a execution without trial most likely making him a martyr and an example to his men as an example of corrupt political justice in the Empire making the Stormcloaks hate the Empire even more and having his second in command Galmar Stone-Fist who really hates the Empire with every fiber of his being even more so than Ulfric in charge leading the war. Tullius on the other hand surrender to save his own skin twice and for some reason joins in after Legate Rikke refuses to surrender and surrenders again if he really cares about his couldn't he surrender before the mass slaughter of his troops that happened outside the Castle Dour and he just chooses to just leave behind his troops in Helgen out in the open and where was he in the assault of Whiterun isn't his job to be in charge of that sort of thing also throughout the Quest line he repeatedly states that he doesn't really care for Nord culture and only starts to care once the quest line is done also Ulfric was in he field way more than Tullius he led the Makarth incident, went to challenge Torygg, had to be on the field to be captured by that ambush, and the siege of Solitude. Tullius has been in the capture of Ulfric, and the Siege of Windhelm and spends most of his time in the Castle Dour...so yeah