Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-27007772-20140611204941/@comment-26213507-20150409214739

Point A: I sincerely wanted a third option for the Civil War Questline. If there was a third option where no one dies and Skyrim becomes whole; that would be what I chose. Maybe Skyrim could join up with The Empire, Morrowind, and Hammerfell and create a united republic or something. Either way, there shouldn't be too much conflict, for the better of mankind. If there is a conflict, The Aldmeri Dominion wins.



Point B: Ulfric Stormcloak is a complete idiot. Before you immediately rebuke, here me out. Ulfric decides to enact the Markarth Incident, in which he went a little over the top. Let’s assume that this was an accident on his part. Either way, that in itself proved that Ulfric was not fit to lead more than a hold, because he might overreact, forcing the loss of many innocent lives. Ulfric might execute any supporters of The Empire when he is in power, showing his true colors once again. In addition, harm may come to those who chose not to fight for him. Galmar Stone-Fist is not too much different. He is similarly stubborn, but is a little better, and is probably not as rash. A setback is his racism, which is also evident with his brother as well. Galmar’s solution tends to be use force or else. That’s not a good pair to leave Skyrim with.



Point C: Timing: Ulfric thought that he had an advantage to strike out at the Empire while it was repairing: he had a motive: Talos was banned, and he had the support of the majority of Skyrim. Starting the war was a mistake. The Empire was forced to sign a treaty in order to save the remaining populace of mankind. Ulfric decides to use this as a weapon to get people to fight for him. It was a smart move against an enemy, except the Empire is not the enemy. Attacking the Empire at a time where they needed to gather forces against The Dominion, the common enemy, is such a stupid decision. The real threat had to be dealt with, then he should have fought for independence.



Point D: The truth. The truth is that Ulfric doesn't care about anything but himself. If he really cared for Skyrim, he would have not started the Markarth Incident or the Civil War, at least not at that moment, or the way that he decided to do them. I do not think that Ulfric is an undercover Thalmor agent, but, rather, that he is a tool in their dissolution of mankind. Ulfric is distracting and shrinking the Empire. Although he is not directly working for the Thalmor, he is ultimately becoming a useful playing piece in their conquest. Ulfric is pretty much handing the Empire on a silver platter to the Thalmor. Ulfric just wants power. He killed Torygg for no other reason. Yes, Torygg wasn’t the best high king, but killing him shows that Ulfric will stop at nothing to get what he wants. There were worse situations, though. There are corrupt Jarls on both sides, but many of them still care for Skyrim. Ulfric is a good war planner, but he is not a king. He is nothing more than a general who wants more. More power, more land, more everything.



Point E: The Empire and Skyrim. No matter what anyone says, an independent Skyrim at this point is a terrible idea. The Empire could not ultimately defeat the Dominion. They showed exceptional military might during the Battle of the Red Ring, but that was using surprise. The battle proved that The Empire was not ready to die out, at least not yet. That was with Skyrim and the Nords, before the Civil War. Because of the Civil War, both Nords and Imperials alike are being killed and for what? Because Talos was banned by the "Empire?" No. The Empire would not simply turn on one of if not the greatest emperor it ever had. The Empire and Titus Mede II are just playing the Thalmor until they can build up forces. Yes, Titus Mede dies, but the Empire lives on. I think that Mede was killed by more than just an ex Elder Council Member. I think the Stormcloaks and/or the Dominion were involved. Mede showed huge military skill during The Battle of the Red Ring, so taking him out would definately weaken the Empire. For Ulfric, that allowed him to ascend to high king easily. For the Dominion, that took out one of their greatest threats. Skyrim, on the other hand, is divided. There are both Stormcloaks and Imperial supporters who live there. Either outcome will result in the loss of many of the citizens, be it by war, executions, or some other way. An independent Skyrim will be weak and easy to take over by the Dominion, since there are lots of Thalmor agents already there. Ulfric Stormcloak though that he and his forces were invincible. Everyone watched as Hammerfell seceded from The Empire because of the White-Gold Concordat's terms. Ulfric Stormcloak saw this and thought "If they can do it, then why not us? Then why not me?" That is a bad ideology. Hammerfell won against The Dominion for one true reason: they knew. The Dominion didn't know about Hammerfell too much, since it belonged to The Empire. The Redguards knew the climate, the terrain, the layout, they had special fighting techniques, and so on. Skyrim is easier to fight in, since it was several easier climates, the harshest being freezing, which is easy to prepare for such as sending soldiers to prepare on the top of a high mountain. There is no possible way that Skyrim alone will hold against all the Dominion in a war.



Point F: The future. The Empire is weakened after the civil war, no matter what side is played. With the emperor who kept The Empire alive after a very tough war to fight now dead, and the empire currently leaderless, it weakens every day. General Tullius, if alive, might play an important role in the future, but chances are he will be dead in the storyline in the future, whether it be by the Stormcloaks or by the Dominion/other cause. As well, a new emperor will be put to the throne, be it hereditary, election, or simply a good leader. The Empire will have little time to act against the Dominion, since they will attack when the empire is weak, which is when the Civil War ends, or perhaps toward the end of it. If the Stormcloaks win, the Thalmor will seek to take over it, because of its strategic positioning. Ulfric will try to unite with Hammerfall and Morrowind in a final attempt. Hammerfall will be reluctant, due to its issues with the empire after the Great War. It might choose to remain apart, which will help no one, including itself. With Morrowind still in ruins after the Eruption of the Red Mountain and Skyrim weak after the Civil War, as well as inexperienced as being an independent state, will not last long. When Skyrim falls, the Dominion will have access to the back door of Cyrodiil, The Empire will have to fight. Either way, judging the current Empire, with almost no leaders left, and way less forces than what they had before, it will be a tough battle. Chances are that it will end in the Dominion's favor, and the last chance of defeating them will fall. The Dominion will take over Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and High Rock, and will oppress the citizens of the lands. Any remaining providences, be it Hammerfell, Morrowind, and/or any small states will easily be taken over due to the size of the Dominion. What will happen to the citizens? It is unknown. Many will be oppressed. The ban of Talos worship will become absolute. Some people may try to revolt, but it will be little use. Unless there is a full-scale revolt over all of Tamriel, it will be over. Will there be a revolt? Will the Nords come down from Atmora once again and take control? Will The Aldmeri Dominion spread farther than Tamriel? The questions will remained unanswered until the Elder Scrolls VI, which will most likely take place in Northern Tamriel.



Point G: Conclusion. Overall, a third choice would be better for the Civil War questline, since the Dominion wins either way. If I chose a side, I side with The Empire. I am not a person who blindly follows the Stormcloaks because The Empire brought me, a no-name person who was at the wrong place at the wrong time, to Helgen to get executed with the other Stormcloak officers, or because they fight for religious freedom against the wrong enemy. I will say that this forum is bringing up a lot of good points. I will urge everyone who just blindly follows a side to come up with a good reason themselves, and not like a side just because. And please, consider the facts and the Dominion when deciding. Know this: The Dominion wins either side you choose. Point A: I sincerely wanted a third option for the Civil War Questline. If there was a third option where no one dies and Skyrim becomes whole; that would be what I chose. Maybe Skyrim could join up with The Empire, Morrowind, and Hammerfell and create a united republic or something. Either way, there shouldn't be too much conflict, for the better of mankind. If there is a conflict, The Aldmeri Dominion wins.





Point B: Ulfric Stormcloak is a complete idiot. Before you immediately rebuke, here me out. Ulfric decides to enact the Markarth Incident, in which he went a little over the top. Let’s assume that this was an accident on his part. Either way, that in itself proved that Ulfric was not fit to lead more than a hold, because he might overreact, forcing the loss of many innocent lives. Ulfric might execute any supporters of The Empire when he is in power, showing his true colors once again. In addition, harm may come to those who chose not to fight for him. Galmar Stone-Fist is not too much different. He is similarly stubborn, but is a little better, and is probably not as rash. A setback is his racism, which is also evident with his brother as well. Galmar’s solution tends to be use force or else. That’s not a good pair to leave Skyrim with.

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<p class="MsoNormal">Point C: Timing: Ulfric thought that he had an advantage to strike out at the Empire while it was repairing: he had a motive: Talos was banned, and he had the support of the majority of Skyrim. Starting the war was a mistake. The Empire was forced to sign a treaty in order to save the remaining populace of mankind. Ulfric decides to use this as a weapon to get people to fight for him. It was a smart move against an enemy, except the Empire is not the enemy. Attacking the Empire at a time where they needed to gather forces against The Dominion, the common enemy, is such a stupid decision. The real threat had to be dealt with, then he should have fought for independence.

<p class="MsoNormal">

<p class="MsoNormal">Point D: The truth. The truth is that Ulfric doesn't care about anything but himself. If he really cared for Skyrim, he would have not started the Markarth Incident or the Civil War, at least not at that moment, or the way that he decided to do them. I do not think that Ulfric is an undercover Thalmor agent, but, rather, that he is a tool in their dissolution of mankind. Ulfric is distracting and shrinking the Empire. Although he is not directly working for the Thalmor, he is ultimately becoming a useful playing piece in their conquest. Ulfric is pretty much handing the Empire on a silver platter to the Thalmor. Ulfric just wants power. He killed Torygg for no other reason. Yes, Torygg wasn’t the best high king, but killing him shows that Ulfric will stop at nothing to get what he wants. There were worse situations, though. There are corrupt Jarls on both sides, but many of them still care for Skyrim. Ulfric is a good war planner, but he is not a king. He is nothing more than a general who wants more. More power, more land, more everything.

<p class="MsoNormal">

<p class="MsoNormal">Point E: The Empire and Skyrim. No matter what anyone says, an independent Skyrim at this point is a terrible idea. The Empire could not ultimately defeat the Dominion. They showed exceptional military might during the Battle of the Red Ring, but that was using surprise. The battle proved that The Empire was not ready to die out, at least not yet. That was with Skyrim and the Nords, before the Civil War. Because of the Civil War, both Nords and Imperials alike are being killed and for what? Because Talos was banned by the "Empire?" No. The Empire would not simply turn on one of if not the greatest emperor it ever had. The Empire and Titus Mede II are just playing the Thalmor until they can build up forces. Yes, Titus Mede dies, but the Empire lives on. I think that Mede was killed by more than just an ex Elder Council Member. I think the Stormcloaks and/or the Dominion were involved. Mede showed huge military skill during The Battle of the Red Ring, so taking him out would definately weaken the Empire. For Ulfric, that allowed him to ascend to high king easily. For the Dominion, that took out one of their greatest threats. Skyrim, on the other hand, is divided. There are both Stormcloaks and Imperial supporters who live there. Either outcome will result in the loss of many of the citizens, be it by war, executions, or some other way. An independent Skyrim will be weak and easy to take over by the Dominion, since there are lots of Thalmor agents already there. Ulfric Stormcloak though that he and his forces were invincible. Everyone watched as Hammerfell seceded from The Empire because of the White-Gold Concordat's terms. Ulfric Stormcloak saw this and thought "If they can do it, then why not us? Then why not me?" That is a bad ideology. Hammerfell won against The Dominion for one true reason: they knew. The Dominion didn't know about Hammerfell too much, since it belonged to The Empire. The Redguards knew the climate, the terrain, the layout, they had special fighting techniques, and so on. Skyrim is easier to fight in, since it was several easier climates, the harshest being freezing, which is easy to prepare for such as sending soldiers to prepare on the top of a high mountain. There is no possible way that Skyrim alone will hold against all the Dominion in a war.

<p class="MsoNormal">

<p class="MsoNormal">Point F: The future. The Empire is weakened after the civil war, no matter what side is played. With the emperor who kept The Empire alive after a very tough war to fight now dead, and the empire currently leaderless, it weakens every day. General Tullius, if alive, might play an important role in the future, but chances are he will be dead in the storyline in the future, whether it be by the Stormcloaks or by the Dominion/other cause. As well, a new emperor will be put to the throne, be it hereditary, election, or simply a good leader. The Empire will have little time to act against the Dominion, since they will attack when the empire is weak, which is when the Civil War ends, or perhaps toward the end of it. If the Stormcloaks win, the Thalmor will seek to take over it, because of its strategic positioning. Ulfric will try to unite with Hammerfall and Morrowind in a final attempt. Hammerfall will be reluctant, due to its issues with the empire after the Great War. It might choose to remain apart, which will help no one, including itself. With Morrowind still in ruins after the Eruption of the Red Mountain and Skyrim weak after the Civil War, as well as inexperienced as being an independent state, will not last long. When Skyrim falls, the Dominion will have access to the back door of Cyrodiil, The Empire will have to fight. Either way, judging the current Empire, with almost no leaders left, and way less forces than what they had before, it will be a tough battle. Chances are that it will end in the Dominion's favor, and the last chance of defeating them will fall. The Dominion will take over Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and High Rock, and will oppress the citizens of the lands. Any remaining providences, be it Hammerfell, Morrowind, and/or any small states will easily be taken over due to the size of the Dominion. What will happen to the citizens? It is unknown. Many will be oppressed. The ban of Talos worship will become absolute. Some people may try to revolt, but it will be little use. Unless there is a full-scale revolt over all of Tamriel, it will be over. Will there be a revolt? Will the Nords come down from Atmora once again and take control? Will The Aldmeri Dominion spread farther than Tamriel? The questions will remained unanswered until the Elder Scrolls VI, which will most likely take place in Northern Tamriel.

<p class="MsoNormal">

<p class="MsoNormal">Point G: Conclusion. Overall, a third choice would be better for the Civil War questline, since the Dominion wins either way. If I chose a side, I side with The Empire. I am not a person who blindly follows the Stormcloaks because The Empire brought me, a no-name person who was at the wrong place at the wrong time, to Helgen to get executed with the other Stormcloak officers, or because they fight for religious freedom against the wrong enemy. I will say that this forum is bringing up a lot of good points. I will urge everyone who just blindly follows a side to come up with a good reason themselves, and not like a side just because. And please, consider the facts and the Dominion when deciding. Know this: The Dominion wins either side you choose.