Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-209.7.3.188-20160303204000/@comment-28589830-20160309233057

Blademaster Jauffre wrote: I side with the Empire, for a few simple facts and a logical assumption.

Facts: The Stormcloaks (     are the/have)

1.-Caused Alduin's return.

'"They're already here. The Elder Scrolls told of their return. Their defeat was merely a delay, to a time after Oblivion opened. When the Sons of Skyrim would spill their own blood. -Skyrim Trailer

When the Snow Tower lies sundered kingless, bleeding' -Alduin's Wall

2.- Caused you to be send to the chopping block.

Weren't you on that cart with the Stormcloaks''? Well if Hadvar vouches for you that must mean you're all right.'' -Imperial Soldier

Don't let those Stormcloaks get away! -Imperial Captain

3.- Caused the Forsworn to be aggresive again.

'' the Forsworn Kingdom was quite peaceful for those 2 years they were in power. '' -The Bear of Markarth

Seeing at the fact that they are no longer peaceful that shows that the Stormcloaks, with retaking the Reach, made them aggresive again.

4.- Cause of families being torn apart

I'm pretty sure everyone knows the story of that Snow-Shod guy in Riften, about how his daughter was a Battle Maiden and got killed by the Imperials. Same thing with the owner of Angeline's auromatics whose daughter left to join the Legion, but got killed. Seeing as the Stormcloaks started the war, they caused this.

5.- Cause of racism in Windhelm

Did you know it was Ulfrics decree that forbade us from living within the city walls? -Scouts-Many-Marshes

''I'm a dark elf and I live in Windhelm, so yes, I live in the Gray Quarter. You must be new around here, or you'd know they don't let my kind live outside that slum.'' -Aval Atheron

6.- Only protect the Nords

I'll get that quote from Brunwulf. But yeah we all know what Brunwulf said, something along the lines of Ulfric being the first to sound the Horn if a Nord village is attacked, but when it's a Khajiiti caravan etc there's not even a peep. This is even proven by the dead Khajiit caravan at Steamcrag Camp.

7.- Cause of a loss of men and resources for the next Great War

This one should be obvious. By starting the civil war, both men and resources have to be spilled in battle, as well as money for upkeep. This is also what drove Skyrims coffers empty. These resources that are/have been wasted in the Civil War could have been used for training and equiping of soldiers for the next Great War.

8.- Cause of friends becoming enemies

Clan ray-Mane and clan Battle-Born, used to be friends, then the war started. Now they are enemies. As I already said, seeing  as the Stormcloaks started the war, they are to blame for this.

Assumption:

The Stormcloaks gave the Thalmor an excuse to come to Skyrim, prior to the Markarth Incident there was no record of the Thalmor having a foothold in Skyrim.

''Forsworn had taken over Markarth, and Ulfric and his men drove them out. Empire promised they'd be free to worship Talos afterwards. Pity no one told the elves, whole group of those Thalmor came and the demanded Ulfrics arrest.'' -Cedran

The so-called Markarth Incident   was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim  -Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak

These two quotes lead me to believe the Thalmor weren't in Skyrim, which makes sense. Here's why: Ulfric was a Thalmor agent prior to the Markarth Incident, they had direct contact. So they probably talked about Ulfric demanding Talos worship so that the Thalmor could come to Skyrim. The Thalmor had Ulfric imprisoned, which resulted in him becoming uncooperative to direct contact.

Does my assumption make sense? 1 is downright ridiculous. alduin would have returned regardless of the civil war

2 things like that just happen in war. civilian casualties are impossible to avoid altogether.

3 true

4 a stormcloak supporter could argue that the imperials caused this by turning their backs on skyrim

5 the racism mostly stays after ulfric's gone.

6 true

7 true, and the main reason i support the empire

8 the white-gold concordat can be blamed for this

your assumption that ulfric is a thalmor agent is just as ridiculous as the claims made by stormcloak supporters that the empire is a puppet of the thalmor. there is nothing in the thalmor dossier that suggests that he is an agent, it only states that what he is doing is good for the thalmor. both sides in the civil war recognist that the thalmor are the true enemy.