Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-209.7.3.188-20160303204000/@comment-28693219-20160313020303

Blademaster Jauffre wrote: Ashley Kirshbaum wrote: 1 is downright ridiculous. alduin would have returned regardless of the civil war

2 things like that just happen in war. civilian casualties are impossible to avoid altogether.

3 true

4 a stormcloak supporter could argue that the imperials caused this by turning their backs on skyrim

5 the racism mostly stays after ulfric's gone.

6 true

7 true, and the main reason i support the empire

8 the white-gold concordat can be blamed for this

your assumption that ulfric is a thalmor agent is just as ridiculous as the claims made by stormcloak supporters that the empire is a puppet of the thalmor. there is nothing in the thalmor dossier that suggests that he is an agent, it only states that what he is doing is good for the thalmor. both sides in the civil war recognise that the thalmor are the true enemy. 1. Did you not hear of the prophecy? Of the Skyrim trailer? Both show clear indications that the Civil War caused Alduins return.

2. Had the Stormcloaks not started a fight you wouldn't have been on that cart. Had Ulfric just asked, all of this might have been avoided.

4. They didn't ask for independence, Ulfric straight up killed Torygg, they are to blame, entirely.

5. Most people think like Ulfric did -Brunwulf Free-Winter True, Windhelm might remain the same, but for different reasons than before.

8. Well, I can agree on that, but once again, if Ulfric had just asked for independence, it could have been avoided.

But only after the Markarth Incident did he start behaving uncooperative, only after the Thalmor had him imprisoned, there was also no record of any Thalmor in Skyrim prior to the Markarth Incident. Add that up with an Imperial Victory harming their overall position in Skyrim, it all adds up. Actually, Torygg agreed to a duel with Ulfric, Because, In the old war way, Shouting is how someone would challenge another to a duel,  Ulfric Stabbed Torygg after Shouting him to the ground, and Torygg was a weak leader, He didn't fight for freedom to follow his belief.