The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot/Log January 2018


 * 21:16:16: Atvelonis: Let's start now. Jauffre, you have the floor.
 * 21:16:25: Blademaster Jauffre: Oh boy
 * 21:16:42: The Crusader of Truth: Don't worry, only I bite here
 * 21:17:08: Qahnaarin1997: Where's Bronkiin?
 * 21:17:16: The Crusader of Truth: Not here
 * 21:17:36: Atvelonis: Playing his ukulele on a mountain somewhere, probabaly
 * 21:17:47: RhodiumOdi: Is it a glitch or do Qahn and Crus have the same dashingly handsome profile pic
 * 21:17:49: Qahnaarin1997: We're missing Kora as well.
 * 21:18:00: Qahnaarin1997: We are uganda knuckles, Odi.
 * 21:18:39: The Crusader of Truth: Atv is our queen
 * 21:18:41: RhodiumOdi: Looks like one of those shite "I'd like to introduce you to my religion" memes
 * 21:18:44: The Crusader of Truth: he will show us de wei
 * 21:18:48: Qahnaarin1997: He has shown us de wei
 * 21:18:52: Qahnaarin1997: clok clok clok clok
 * 21:19:01: The Crusader of Truth: Imma message bron and kora
 * 21:19:13: Blademaster Jauffre: Well, I'm starting with my third point, connecting disambiguation and lore pages. I think that disambiguation pages should only exist if there's not really a lot of lore to something. A lore page could have the same thing as disambiguations, such as each game-specific article in a see also heading, kind of like at the Imperial Legion page, but at the same time cover the lore, instead of seperating lore and disambig pages.
 * 21:19:16: Blademaster Jauffre: If that makes sense?
 * 21:19:16: Qahnaarin1997: Not a proper moot until they're here.
 * 21:19:18: Rozty: uganda knuckles is still strong for a day or two
 * 21:20:03: Atvelonis: We sort of do that right now, but not for everything
 * 21:20:07: Qahnaarin1997: Jauffre, do you mean separating lore pages from in-game and not in-game?
 * 21:20:17: The Lusty Dovahkiin: In my opinion, we should keep the disambig pages, but put a "see also" on lore pages too
 * 21:20:18: Rozty: wouldn't be a bit harder to locate the rest of the pages then?
 * 21:20:26: Atvelonis: For instance on many of Vincentius' pages we have a "By game" section which acts as the disambiguation
 * 21:20:32: Atvelonis: And the rest of the article has general lore info
 * 21:20:35: The Lusty Dovahkiin: oh yes, by game, not see also
 * 21:20:45: Rozty: i don't know if many would be willing to scroll far down for a mention of what they are looking for
 * 21:20:52: Rozty: some of our lore pages are huge
 * 21:20:52: Blademaster Jauffre: That's what I meant
 * 21:20:54: The Crusader of Truth: Can I throw in a two cents on this?
 * 21:20:55: Atvelonis: Although currently they're at the bottom of the page. I would prefer having them at the top for easy access
 * 21:21:00: Atvelonis: like a disambig
 * 21:21:06: The Crusader of Truth: That was my two cents, damn
 * 21:21:32: The Lusty Dovahkiin: let's leave the disambigs
 * 21:21:33: Atvelonis: An example of what we're talking about: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Stonefalls
 * 21:21:34: Scootybum: I always wondered why disambig pages existed, as you can locate the game-specific ones in the search bar anyway. They're kind of useless IMO
 * 21:21:34: The Crusader of Truth: It's extremely annoying to get to them, especially on mobile
 * 21:21:34: Qahnaarin1997: I don't think that's a good idea. If the information is relavant and reliable, it should be included to the page, even if it's not an in-game thing
 * 21:21:40: The Lusty Dovahkiin: and ALSO add "by game" on lore pages
 * 21:21:42: The Lusty Dovahkiin: why not both?
 * 21:22:07: Atvelonis: I think it would be best to add lore information to the ones that would benefit from such information
 * 21:22:08: The Lusty Dovahkiin: Scooty, disambigs exist because some pages link to a general name of something, not a game specific article
 * 21:22:26: The Crusader of Truth: That and it makes navigation easier
 * 21:22:29: The Lusty Dovahkiin: sometimes you have to link to Ashlands, but there are Ashlands both in ESO and Morrowind, and you just want to link to Ashlands in general
 * 21:22:34: Atvelonis: For instance lore-disambig location pages would have info on all of its appearances
 * 21:22:38: RhodiumOdi: I'm not an Edior, but speaking as someone who uses the Wiki all the time, the disambig pages are handy to have to find your way around
 * 21:22:45: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ^
 * 21:22:48: The Crusader of Truth: ^
 * 21:22:52: The Lusty Dovahkiin: hello
 * 21:22:53: Atvelonis: hi nekyn
 * 21:22:53: RhodiumOdi: Mmm yes I'm not an edior indeed
 * 21:22:55: Nekyn Alb: Hello
 * 21:22:58: Qahnaarin1997: o/
 * 21:22:59: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 21:23:01: Nekyn Alb: Moot still on?
 * 21:23:04: Atvelonis: Just started
 * 21:23:07: The Crusader of Truth: Just started
 * 21:23:07: The Crusader of Truth: oof
 * 21:23:10: Rozty: yeah, they are a lot more handy than looking for the page you want inside a wall of text
 * 21:23:16: Nekyn Alb: Ugandan copycat
 * 21:23:25: The Crusader of Truth: He is my queen
 * 21:23:28: Rozty: mayve if we do put it on top then it could work
 * 21:23:32: Rozty: maybe*
 * 21:23:33: Blademaster Jauffre: Well, we could move the by game pages to the top
 * 21:23:38: Atvelonis: So I think since we've been doing the lore-disambigs kind of unofficially, we could standardize their usage among applicable pages with the by game links at the top, rather than hidden all the way at the bottom
 * 21:23:46: Atvelonis: Right under the lead
 * 21:23:47: The Crusader of Truth: I agree
 * 21:24:03: Nekyn Alb: We talking about disambigs being lore pages instead of (Lore)?
 * 21:24:08: The Lusty Dovahkiin: I say let's have both disambigs and by game, that;s all I have to say here
 * 21:24:08: The Crusader of Truth: I can use AWB to find the pages like that, should be pretty easy
 * 21:24:17: The Crusader of Truth: No, we've been getting rid of (lore)
 * 21:24:22: Qahnaarin1997: Why not do a format setting. Keep both sources on the article but divide them under different headings?
 * 21:24:37: Atvelonis: Yes Lusty, I think for some things you can't really have a lore disambig as there's not enough info
 * 21:24:40: Atvelonis: Or it's unrelated
 * 21:24:44: The Crusader of Truth: @Qah wot
 * 21:24:50: Atvelonis: For example a disambig for 2 NPCs with the same name: completely unrelated
 * 21:24:58: Atvelonis: So that would remain a regular disambig, I think
 * 21:25:01: The Crusader of Truth: We're doing lore info on disambigs atm m8
 * 21:25:28: Nekyn Alb: that's kinda what I said lol
 * 21:25:30: Qahnaarin1997: Then I am lost, I thought it was more to organize info
 * 21:25:42: RhodiumOdi: Atv, say the one for Umbra, that'd stay, that what you mean?
 * 21:25:46: The Lusty Dovahkiin: anyway, we CAN'T get rid of disambigs whatever we decide
 * 21:25:46: The Crusader of Truth: That's why we're saying put the disambig links at the top
 * 21:25:50: The Crusader of Truth: ^
 * 21:26:03: The Lusty Dovahkiin: that'd be nice too
 * 21:26:03: Atvelonis: Yes I agree Lusty
 * 21:26:05: The Lusty Dovahkiin: hello
 * 21:26:10: Atvelonis: hi
 * 21:26:16: The Crusader of Truth: Unnecessarily necessary statement
 * 21:26:18: Scootybum: Hey
 * 21:26:19: Rozty: so the top of a lore page would be exaclty like a disambig?
 * 21:26:28: The Crusader of Truth: ^
 * 21:26:31: The Crusader of Truth: Yes
 * 21:26:32: Blademaster Jauffre: I'm not proposing a complete removal
 * 21:26:35: Blademaster Jauffre: What Rozty said
 * 21:26:39: Scootybum: Sounds good ^^^
 * 21:26:46: Atvelonis: I don't really have an issue with that
 * 21:26:51: The Crusader of Truth: Which tbh we should have been doing
 * 21:26:51: Atvelonis: Best of both worlds
 * 21:27:01: Rozty: sounds good
 * 21:27:20: The Crusader of Truth: Put it to a vote?
 * 21:27:27: Qahnaarin1997: (+)
 * 21:27:29: Atvelonis: So we can vote now: use a "By Game" section at the top of lore pages so they function also as disambigs
 * 21:27:31: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:27:34: The Crusader of Truth: If no one has anything else to say, (+)
 * 21:27:37: Atvelonis: (+) to vote btw
 * 21:27:37: Rozty: (+)
 * 21:27:39: Amulet of Kings: (+)
 * 21:27:40: Blademaster Jauffre: Can I vote?
 * 21:27:42: Nekyn Alb: http://de.elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Vampir like this, yeah?
 * 21:27:43: The Lusty Dovahkiin: {+}
 * 21:27:43: Atvelonis: yes
 * 21:27:44: The Crusader of Truth: oc
 * 21:27:44: Scootybum: (+)
 * 21:27:47: Blademaster Jauffre: (+)
 * 21:27:48: The Lusty Dovahkiin: (+)
 * 21:27:49: The Cat Master: (+)
 * 21:27:50: The Lusty Dovahkiin: lol
 * 21:27:53: Prophecy of the Urine: (+)
 * 21:27:54: Nekyn Alb: because then (+)
 * 21:27:55: The Crusader of Truth: (+) = (+) lol
 * 21:27:57: Qahnaarin1997: It passed
 * 21:28:06: Atvelonis: 11-0-0
 * 21:28:07: RhodiumOdi: (+)
 * 21:28:09: Atvelonis: 12-0-0
 * 21:28:13: The Lusty Dovahkiin: lol Crus I know, I failed
 * 21:28:18: The Crusader of Truth: RIP
 * 21:28:20: Blademaster Jauffre: Yes, Nekyn, like that
 * 21:28:22: The Lusty Dovahkiin: {+} ftw
 * 21:28:24: The Crusader of Truth: "We'll get them next time"
 * 21:28:47: Qahnaarin1997: RIP Soap
 * 21:28:51: The Crusader of Truth: Any more votes ?
 * 21:29:02: RhodiumOdi: Unless anyone is hiding 12 people, next topic?
 * 21:29:12: The Crusader of Truth: ^
 * 21:29:15: Rozty: yup
 * 21:29:16: The Lusty Dovahkiin: I have them in my basement
 * 21:29:17: Scootybum: Yep
 * 21:29:19: The Lusty Dovahkiin: but ok
 * 21:29:20: The Crusader of Truth: I hide 12 people all the time
 * 21:29:21: Qahnaarin1997: My vote is worth 13 people.
 * 21:29:32: The Crusader of Truth: I carry the vote of the uganda people
 * 21:29:36: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ^
 * 21:29:37: Qahnaarin1997: No
 * 21:29:39: Qahnaarin1997: Atvel does
 * 21:29:42: Qahnaarin1997: he is de queen
 * 21:29:43: Atvelonis: clok clok
 * 21:29:43: The Lusty Dovahkiin: he is the queen
 * 21:29:48: Qahnaarin1997: clok clok clok clok
 * 21:29:50: Scootybum: Do small children count as people? If so, I hide them.
 * 21:29:52: The Lusty Dovahkiin: okay next topic, before Uganda overtakes this server
 * 21:29:54: Atvelonis: @Jauffre: you can move onto your next topic now
 * 21:29:54: The Crusader of Truth: Atv has all 41.49 million uganda votes
 * 21:30:12: RhodiumOdi: Atvel first Woodcutters then the Atv cult now this?
 * 21:30:22: Atvelonis: Woodcutter's Axe cult lives on
 * 21:30:23: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 21:30:29: Qahnaarin1997: We ave already taken over
 * 21:30:36: Qahnaarin1997: TES is now Uganda.
 * 21:30:48: Scootybum: The Uganda Scrolls
 * 21:30:51: Scootybum: TUS
 * 21:30:54: Qahnaarin1997: clok clok clok clok
 * 21:30:59: The Lusty Dovahkiin: oh no
 * 21:31:01: Rozty: clok clok clok clok
 * 21:31:03: The Crusader of Truth: The staff is led by a Lizard men empire who worship axes
 * 21:31:05: The Crusader of Truth: i mean
 * 21:31:05: The Crusader of Truth: wot
 * 21:31:10: Scootybum: clok clok clok
 * 21:31:15: The Crusader of Truth: clok clok clok clok
 * 21:31:16: Blademaster Jauffre: All right, so my next thing is a small change to the good article check-list for a character page.
 * 21:31:20: The Lusty Dovahkiin: well do you mean Akaviri Potentates
 * 21:31:26: Blademaster Jauffre: like, special characters like Balgruuf and the like
 * 21:31:37: Atvelonis: Which list?
 * 21:31:40: The Lusty Dovahkiin: and what change
 * 21:31:47: Blademaster Jauffre: That's what I'm getting at
 * 21:31:58: The Crusader of Truth: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Wiki:GAC
 * 21:32:05: Atvelonis: that's actually outdated
 * 21:32:05: Blademaster Jauffre: Thank you Crus
 * 21:32:09: Atvelonis: correct list is http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Wiki:Featured_Article_Nominations
 * 21:32:13: Atvelonis: We merged them some time ago
 * 21:32:15: The Crusader of Truth: oof
 * 21:32:22: Atvelonis: GA is the pool of pages from which we get FA
 * 21:32:30: Atvelonis: (FA is supposed to be once a month)
 * 21:32:39: The Crusader of Truth: /supposed/
 * 21:32:49: Blademaster Jauffre: Wait, are good and featured articles the same thing?
 * 21:32:54: Atvelonis: No not really
 * 21:32:58: Atvelonis: Kind of
 * 21:33:13: The Crusader of Truth: It's kinda like the circle thing
 * 21:33:15: The Crusader of Truth: half done
 * 21:33:18: Rozty: i remember reading that a while ago
 * 21:33:18: Atvelonis: The requirements for them are the same; the difference is that FA is just chosen once per month.
 * 21:33:25: The Crusader of Truth: oof broken link
 * 21:33:25: Atvelonis: CA is basically a GA that is too short
 * 21:33:31: Rozty: why are they seperated?
 * 21:33:37: Rozty: oh
 * 21:33:59: Qahnaarin1997: Crus
 * 21:34:03: Qahnaarin1997: Check discord
 * 21:34:09: The Lusty Dovahkiin: brb
 * 21:34:18: The Crusader of Truth: seen it
 * 21:34:45: Atvelonis: o/
 * 21:34:56: Blademaster Jauffre: Okay, so what I'm proposing is having a seperate requirement for character pages. In order to get featured/good, to require their (unique) dialogue on the page, because in the past I've seen some disputes because of references to the dialogue of an NPC whose dialogue was not on the wiki
 * 21:35:05: Blademaster Jauffre: ello Kora
 * 21:35:08: Kora Stormblade: o.
 * 21:35:08: DreamSoulshine: Are you still meming here?
 * 21:35:10: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 21:35:12: Atvelonis: Moot
 * 21:35:17: Scootybum: alloo m8
 * 21:35:27: Qahnaarin1997: We're just missing Shockstorm... I mean Bronkiin.
 * 21:35:32: Nekyn Alb: Hello
 * 21:35:33: Qahnaarin1997: Woops
 * 21:35:48: Atvelonis: That makes sense
 * 21:36:00: Atvelonis: Currently the requirement is just "…character articles - include relevant dialogue that does not fit on other pages, such as quest pages."
 * 21:36:22: Kora Stormblade: Yea I can agree to have that dialogue requirement
 * 21:36:23: Atvelonis: So you're saying it should be ALL dialogue, not just a few select quotes like it is on some pages?
 * 21:36:28: Atvelonis: I like that
 * 21:36:31: Blademaster Jauffre: All, yeah
 * 21:36:36: Rozty: yeah
 * 21:36:48: Rozty: i have noticed the issue with referncing dialgue as well
 * 21:36:54: Rozty: dialogue*
 * 21:36:58: Blademaster Jauffre: I mean, if it's to be good/featured, it should include as much of the person as possible, right?
 * 21:37:04: Kora Stormblade: I do notice some pages which reference a character's dialogue yet doesnt have the dialogue itself anywhere on it, so that was a good mention
 * 21:37:08: Rozty: it should definitely be a requirement
 * 21:37:12: Atvelonis: Yeah, certainly. I think this will help a lot
 * 21:37:18: Scootybum: Yee
 * 21:37:37: Atvelonis: Vote? "Require that GA/FA character articles have all dialogue on them"
 * 21:37:39: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:37:44: Kora Stormblade: (+)
 * 21:37:46: Blademaster Jauffre: (+)
 * 21:37:46: Kora Stormblade: wb cat o.
 * 21:37:53: Prophecy of the Urine: (+)
 * 21:37:56: Kora Stormblade: also sorry I was late here lmao I was baking things
 * 21:37:57: Atvelonis: 4-0-0
 * 21:37:59: Nekyn Alb: (=)
 * 21:38:02: Atvelonis: 4-1-0
 * 21:38:05: Rozty: (+)
 * 21:38:12: The Lusty Dovahkiin: back
 * 21:38:13: RhodiumOdi: (=)
 * 21:38:15: Kora Stormblade: wb
 * 21:38:18: Atvelonis: 5-2-0
 * 21:38:18: Kora Stormblade: 5-2-0
 * 21:38:19: The Lusty Dovahkiin: and
 * 21:38:20: Kora Stormblade: agh
 * 21:38:22: The Lusty Dovahkiin: (+)
 * 21:38:26: Atvelonis: 6-2-0
 * 21:38:28: The Lusty Dovahkiin: just in time to vote lol
 * 21:38:30: The Cat Master: (+)
 * 21:38:32: Kora Stormblade: do you know what youre voting on though?>
 * 21:38:35: Scootybum: (+)
 * 21:38:35: Atvelonis: 7-2-0
 * 21:38:38: Atvelonis: 8-2-0
 * 21:38:42: The Lusty Dovahkiin: yes, I scrolled up, dialogue in FA
 * 21:38:47: Kora Stormblade: alright (y)
 * 21:38:53: Amulet of Kings: (+)
 * 21:39:03: Atvelonis: 9-2-0
 * 21:39:16: Kora Stormblade: crus have you voted?
 * 21:39:42: Kora Stormblade: rip
 * 21:40:26: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ripperino
 * 21:40:51: Kora Stormblade: You think thats all the votes or should we wait a few more mins atv?
 * 21:41:05: Atvelonis: Doesn't really change the outcome either way, this definitely passes
 * 21:41:38: Kora Stormblade: Yea thats true
 * 21:42:13: Atvelonis: @Jauffre: you had a third topic as well, no? So we can go ahead with that
 * 21:42:19: The Crusader of Truth: one sec
 * 21:42:30: The Crusader of Truth: (+)
 * 21:42:33: Blademaster Jauffre: Yes
 * 21:42:43: Kora Stormblade: ayy there we go crus
 * 21:42:45: Atvelonis: 10-2-0 then
 * 21:43:02: The Crusader of Truth: Actually (-)
 * 21:43:08: The Crusader of Truth: Because it's hard to get all dialogue
 * 21:43:08: The Lusty Dovahkiin: lol
 * 21:43:13: Atvelonis: But for GA?
 * 21:43:13: DreamSoulshine: Break the system
 * 21:43:14: The Crusader of Truth: So 8-3-0
 * 21:43:21: Atvelonis: 9-2-1
 * 21:43:26: The Crusader of Truth: o
 * 21:43:27: Rozty: don't be lazy smh
 * 21:43:27: Nekyn Alb: lol
 * 21:43:27: Atvelonis: positive-neutral-negative
 * 21:43:31: The Lusty Dovahkiin: s u r p r i s e
 * 21:43:52: The Crusader of Truth: I am out of my element
 * 21:44:00: The Crusader of Truth: We must destroy democracy
 * 21:44:07: The Crusader of Truth: We need our queen back
 * 21:44:26: Atvelonis: clok clok
 * 21:45:05: The Crusader of Truth: ow fuck
 * 21:45:09: Scootybum: clok clok clok clok clok
 * 21:45:09: The Crusader of Truth: two inch glass in foot
 * 21:45:11: The Crusader of Truth: brb
 * 21:45:17: The Lusty Dovahkiin: oh hell no
 * 21:45:20: The Lusty Dovahkiin: dude
 * 21:45:22: Blademaster Jauffre: So, this one is not really like, very important, but I still think it's in place. Right now we're puting all the OOG items under the same out-of-game category. While it is true that all of them are out-of-game, I think it's a bit weird for some works, like say Why were the Dwemer Considered a Great House? to be on the same category as both TES Novels, because the latter two are licensed and directly part of the franchise, while the other is indirectly.
 * 21:45:27: The Lusty Dovahkiin: put some pressure on that, Crus
 * 21:45:32: KINMUNE: Hello there, Emperor Jarjarkine!
 * 21:45:35: Atvelonis: hi jarjar
 * 21:45:35: The Lusty Dovahkiin: hey
 * 21:45:43: Emperor Jarjarkine: Heyaa
 * 21:45:49: Blademaster Jauffre: bonjour
 * 21:46:08: Scootybum: Buenos Dias
 * 21:46:09: Atvelonis: Are you talking about the category or the template? Or the license at the bottom of the OOG pages?
 * 21:46:11: The Lusty Dovahkiin: The novels should not be OOG, tbh, they are 100% part of the franchise, even if they are not games
 * 21:46:11: Qahnaarin1997: i gtg
 * 21:46:13: Rozty: the novels are in the oog category?
 * 21:46:20: Atvelonis: I mean
 * 21:46:20: Amulet of Kings: *Días
 * 21:46:22: Atvelonis: Out-of-game
 * 21:46:23: Atvelonis: Not in a game
 * 21:46:25: Kora Stormblade: So basically asking for a difference between oog things belonging to bethesda and oog ones which dont?
 * 21:46:28: Blademaster Jauffre: Template
 * 21:46:28: Atvelonis: Pretty straightforward
 * 21:46:34: Blademaster Jauffre: Yes, exactly like that Kora
 * 21:46:39: Atvelonis: hmm
 * 21:46:41: Scootybum: Are the novels canon?
 * 21:46:44: Atvelonis: Yes
 * 21:46:51: Scootybum: k
 * 21:46:58: Scootybum: Hola
 * 21:47:01: Rozty: usually the things in the oog are not really official content unlike the novels tho
 * 21:47:02: Amulet of Kings: I hope so, I've been working on them
 * 21:47:10: Kora Stormblade: I mean I can kind of see how its useful, although we have to be careful not to overcategorize etc, that, and I do feel like the sources if they are owned by bethesda will say so on the source itself
 * 21:47:12: Atvelonis: I don't think it would be helpful to further fragment the ==References== section
 * 21:47:20: RhodiumOdi: Rip all of Amulet's work
 * 21:47:29: Atvelonis: I wouldn't mind more accurate licensing templates
 * 21:47:37: DreamSoulshine: Maybe OOG should be renamed out-of-canon or something, imho
 * 21:47:43: Scootybum: OOC
 * 21:47:55: The Lusty Dovahkiin: novels are 100% canon, so imo we should not have them with non-canon sources
 * 21:47:57: Kora Stormblade: canon is a very debatable topic, so I dont think that would fly well
 * 21:47:58: Atvelonis: Subjective. Bethesda doesn't comment on enough things for us to make a distinction for everything being canonical or not
 * 21:47:59: Rozty: that is more like overly original content
 * 21:48:02: Rozty: lol
 * 21:48:26: Kora Stormblade: Yea, but theyre all out-of-game, which is what the tag is
 * 21:48:32: The Lusty Dovahkiin: Kora, but canon is for sure the games and the books. We can debate all the rest, but the certain border is books+games versus everything else
 * 21:48:57: Kora Stormblade: Yea but is it worth debating all the rest?
 * 21:49:00: The Lusty Dovahkiin: Nope
 * 21:49:11: Kora Stormblade: That and I find it would be confusing for new users who might not grasp the concept
 * 21:49:11: The Crusader of Truth: Ugh fuck what did I miss
 * 21:49:19: Kora Stormblade: out of game is pretty straight forward in itself
 * 21:49:22: Atvelonis: I think in-game and out-of-game are very simple. yes
 * 21:49:27: The Lusty Dovahkiin: that's why for example on the pl.elderscrolls we make a difference canon=(books+games) and not-canon=all the rest
 * 21:49:32: Atvelonis: Making it more complicated would be possible? But not practical
 * 21:49:33: The Lusty Dovahkiin: we have to put the line somewhere
 * 21:49:38: Kora Stormblade: Yea Im with atv here
 * 21:49:39: Rozty: it would be confusing for some that don't know the novels are official
 * 21:49:59: Atvelonis: I think for the purposes of using the reference tags with or just, what we have now is ok
 * 21:50:11: The Lusty Dovahkiin: I;m with adv since OOG is okay, what we have now is ok
 * 21:50:36: The Lusty Dovahkiin: let's vote?
 * 21:50:51: The Crusader of Truth: Wait on that
 * 21:50:55: Rozty: but doesn't it give the impression that the novels are not tied with bethsda?
 * 21:50:57: The Crusader of Truth: Does jauf have anything to say back?
 * 21:50:57: DreamSoulshine: Some thing that happened in-game are not canon. There was a mission in Mor to kill that staff-maker from DB, yet he is alive.
 * 21:51:00: Atvelonis: Not really
 * 21:51:05: Atvelonis: OOG doesn't mean not tied to Beth
 * 21:51:13: Atvelonis: Just means it's not actually in a game
 * 21:51:23: Kora Stormblade: ^^
 * 21:51:29: The Lusty Dovahkiin: Rozty is right, it can give others this impression, but that's not what OOG means
 * 21:51:29: Rozty: are there more oog that are tied to bethesda?
 * 21:51:37: Atvelonis: Loremaster's Archive
 * 21:51:39: Amulet of Kings: I haven't added the OOG template to any novel reference
 * 21:51:42: Atvelonis: Every strategy guide
 * 21:51:44: Kora Stormblade: And if they were curious about whether or not it /is/ tied, they can check the source itself
 * 21:51:44: Rozty: my issue is with the impression people may have rather than the actual meaning
 * 21:51:45: The Crusader of Truth: Manuals
 * 21:51:57: Atvelonis: But out-of-game just means not part of a game
 * 21:52:01: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ^
 * 21:52:03: Atvelonis: It doesn't mean possibly-not-canonical
 * 21:52:09: Atvelonis: They just happen to sort of go together sometimes
 * 21:52:24: Blademaster Jauffre: But that could be confusing for new members
 * 21:52:29: Amulet of Kings: And Cyrus comic
 * 21:52:35: Rozty: maybe there should be a distinction there then?
 * 21:52:35: The Crusader of Truth: Solution: Destroy all references
 * 21:52:39: Atvelonis: I think separating based on canon is more confusing
 * 21:52:40: The Crusader of Truth: Problem solved B)
 * 21:52:42: The Lusty Dovahkiin: Wait a sec
 * 21:52:44: Rozty: because it could confuse people
 * 21:52:49: Atvelonis: In-game, out-of-game. Easy
 * 21:52:49: The Lusty Dovahkiin: let's put info in the template
 * 21:53:00: Kora Stormblade: I would agree, especially if certain bits come up to where the canonicity of it is debatable
 * 21:53:02: The Lusty Dovahkiin: that out of game does not refer to canonical/not canonical
 * 21:53:03: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ?
 * 21:53:06: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Template:OOG
 * 21:53:07: Nekyn Alb: The Loremaster's Archive and so on is also OOG. It is not useful to put every OOG source in there, it was mainly made for MK-texts and so on
 * 21:53:15: The Lusty Dovahkiin: putting this in a template would solve the problemo
 * 21:53:20: Atvelonis: "The following are out-of-game references. They are not found in any in-game books, but can still be considered part of The Elder Scrolls lore and are included for completeness."
 * 21:53:26: Atvelonis: That's what the template says now
 * 21:53:28: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ah
 * 21:53:31: Atvelonis: It hasn't really been a problem in the past
 * 21:53:32: Kora Stormblade: Yea I dont think it needs changing
 * 21:53:40: The Lusty Dovahkiin: then let's leave it be
 * 21:53:49: The Crusader of Truth: Considered can include debated canon as well as canon so I say that stays
 * 21:54:15: The Lusty Dovahkiin: same
 * 21:54:53: The Crusader of Truth: I like how I just went from having a 2 inch deep cut to eating chicken to talking about ideas on an elder scrolls website
 * 21:54:55: The Crusader of Truth: what is my life
 * 21:55:21: Atvelonis: So to vote: "Should we change the OOG template to sorting by "canonicity" rather than out-of-gameness."
 * 21:55:23: Atvelonis: my vote is (=)
 * 21:55:25: Atvelonis: oops
 * 21:55:26: Atvelonis: (-)
 * 21:55:27: The Crusader of Truth: oof off topic Im a bad mod sorry
 * 21:55:33: The Cat Master: (-)
 * 21:55:37: The Crusader of Truth: (-)
 * 21:55:39: Amulet of Kings: (-)
 * 21:55:44: Atvelonis: 0-0-4
 * 21:55:46: Nekyn Alb: (+)
 * 21:55:49: The Lusty Dovahkiin: (-)
 * 21:55:52: Atvelonis: 1-0-5
 * 21:55:55: Blademaster Jauffre: (+)
 * 21:55:55: Rozty: (=)
 * 21:55:57: Kora Stormblade: (-)
 * 21:55:57: Atvelonis: 2-1-5
 * 21:56:01: Atvelonis: 2-1-6
 * 21:56:01: The Crusader of Truth: [[Amulet of Kings

Atvelonis Away

Blademaster Jauffre

DreamSoulshine

KINMUNE

Kora Stormblade

Nathan4200 Away

Nekyn Alb

Rozty Away

Scootybum Away

The Cat Master

The Lusty Dovahkiin

Vuh Away | ]] (article_namespace == 14 & lcase(added_lines) rlike "\[\[kategoria:.+\]\]") in AbuseFilter (article_namespace == 14 & lcase(added_lines) rlike "\[\[category:.+\]\]") >but no one realizes you're a problem
 * 21:56:03: Kora Stormblade: woah
 * 21:56:04: The Crusader of Truth: up
 * 21:56:05: Atvelonis: crus pls
 * 21:56:06: The Crusader of Truth: uh
 * 21:56:07: The Crusader of Truth: sorry
 * 21:56:08: The Crusader of Truth: my bad
 * 21:56:10: Nekyn Alb: ban
 * 21:56:11: The Crusader of Truth: wont happen again
 * 21:56:17: Kora Stormblade: lmao nekyn xd
 * 21:56:23: Atvelonis: (banhammer)
 * 21:56:26: Atvelonis: no
 * 21:56:27: Atvelonis: (hammer)
 * 21:56:27: The Crusader of Truth: hammer
 * 21:56:30: Kora Stormblade: there we go
 * 21:56:34: Kora Stormblade: u finna get it son
 * 21:56:35: The Crusader of Truth: Do I need to kick myself
 * 21:56:42: Nekyn Alb: Yes
 * 21:56:43: Kora Stormblade: oh god not this again
 * 21:56:48: Rozty: with a hammer yes
 * 21:56:52: The Lusty Dovahkiin: okay
 * 21:56:56: The Lusty Dovahkiin: let's ban everyone here
 * 21:57:01: The Lusty Dovahkiin: no need for moots anymore
 * 21:57:04: The Crusader of Truth: No
 * 21:57:05: The Lusty Dovahkiin: all problems SOLVED
 * 21:57:10: The Crusader of Truth: Okay back to the vote guys lol
 * 21:57:18: Atvelonis: are there any other votes?
 * 21:57:28: Vuh: (+)
 * 21:57:40: Atvelonis: 3-1-6
 * 21:57:46: Vuh: sorting by canon > sorting by game
 * 21:57:48: Amulet of Kings: Does Vuh count?
 * 21:57:55: Atvelonis: anyone can vote
 * 21:58:15: The Crusader of Truth: inb4 18 discussions users join chat and all vote
 * 21:58:16: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ban Vuh
 * 21:58:20: The Lusty Dovahkiin: lel
 * 21:58:36: Nekyn Alb: Something like UO (unofficial) seems like it would make much more sense
 * 21:58:45: Rozty: yeah
 * 21:58:48: Atvelonis: Problem is that unofficial is so subjective
 * 21:58:53: Kora Stormblade: ^^
 * 21:58:55: Atvelonis: And we need to appease both sides of the canon wars
 * 21:58:56: Amulet of Kings: Oh, I thought it was a bot
 * 21:58:58: Nekyn Alb: because who cares if it's from the books, website or game
 * 21:58:59: Blademaster Jauffre: UL, un liscensed
 * 21:59:05: Atvelonis: User:VuBot is the bot
 * 21:59:08: Atvelonis: hi lorvaul
 * 21:59:14: The Beartooth: Hey atv
 * 21:59:15: Atvelonis: well if there are no more votes then I have a topic
 * 21:59:16: The Lusty Dovahkiin: well
 * 21:59:18: The Lusty Dovahkiin: no
 * 21:59:25: The Lusty Dovahkiin: canon is not subjective
 * 21:59:28: Kora Stormblade: uh
 * 21:59:29: The Lusty Dovahkiin: canon is books and games
 * 21:59:33: Nekyn Alb: The source doesn't come from an official side, not really subjective. The canonicity is subjective
 * 21:59:34: The Lusty Dovahkiin: the rest is subjective
 * 21:59:36: The Lusty Dovahkiin: but okay
 * 21:59:39: The Beartooth: Did I miss the moot
 * 21:59:40: The Beartooth: ?
 * 21:59:42: The Lusty Dovahkiin: eh
 * 21:59:43: Kora Stormblade: Its happening now
 * 21:59:43: Amulet of Kings: No
 * 21:59:46: The Lusty Dovahkiin: no, it;s still here
 * 21:59:47: The Crusader of Truth: youre in it
 * 21:59:49: The Beartooth: OK
 * 21:59:52: The Lusty Dovahkiin: lyl
 * 21:59:59: Nekyn Alb: UL would work as well btw
 * 22:00:08: The Lusty Dovahkiin: yes
 * 22:00:21: The Crusader of Truth: Comment: Who would even do all of the work?
 * 22:00:27: Kora Stormblade: ^
 * 22:00:29: The Crusader of Truth: Thats a shit ton to change
 * 22:00:29: Rozty: probs you
 * 22:00:30: Nekyn Alb: AWB
 * 22:00:30: Kora Stormblade: you would lmao
 * 22:00:33: Kora Stormblade: jk
 * 22:00:34: The Crusader of Truth: Thats why Im voting no
 * 22:00:47: Atvelonis: well it didn't pass so there's no use arguing over it now
 * 22:00:53: The Lusty Dovahkiin: I would
 * 22:00:54: The Lusty Dovahkiin: kek
 * 22:00:59: Nekyn Alb: Make a list with all pages with OOG template and do the replacement bit
 * 22:01:01: Atvelonis: I have two topics actually
 * 22:01:05: Atvelonis: Both quick
 * 22:01:06: The Lusty Dovahkiin: *listens*
 * 22:01:37: The Crusader of Truth: Ban Atv before he gives us topics
 * 22:01:37: The Lusty Dovahkiin: bye felicia
 * 22:01:38: Atvelonis: So a few moots ago we decided that anons suck and shouldn't be allowed to edit category pages, because all they ever do is add random stuff to them
 * 22:01:49: Kora Stormblade: lmao what a way to put it
 * 22:01:58: Rozty: seems fine
 * 22:02:09: The Cat Master: 😂
 * 22:02:11: Atvelonis: Yeah I'm more or less indifferent to that. My topic is about the implementation
 * 22:02:27: Atvelonis: Our solution to this at the time was to lock all category pages so that only autoconfirmed users or above would edit
 * 22:02:38: The Beartooth: Destroy the anons
 * 22:02:43: Atvelonis: We didn't get very far, though, because we have many thousands of categories and only four admins
 * 22:02:53: Atvelonis: I think a much more elegant solution to this would just be to set up an abusefilter
 * 22:02:57: The Lusty Dovahkiin: Get more admins
 * 22:02:58: The Lusty Dovahkiin: make me admin
 * 22:03:07: Atvelonis: edit more nerd
 * 22:03:08: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter
 * 22:03:08: The Lusty Dovahkiin: but seriously, I agree with an abusefilter
 * 22:03:10: The Beartooth: Make the anons admins
 * 22:03:14: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ^^^^^
 * 22:03:28: The Crusader of Truth: Make me admin then damnit (kappa)
 * 22:03:36: The Lusty Dovahkiin: make everyone admin
 * 22:03:43: The Beartooth: The anons need a purpose in life
 * 22:03:48: Kora Stormblade: I basically only support this mainly because the outcome will as far as I believe still be the same, it would prevent so many random category additions and we wouldnt have any slide by us
 * 22:03:51: Atvelonis: With an abusefilter, if we ever wanted to remove/revise/whatever this policy, all we would have to do is disable it. Whereas with the categories, we would have to go and unlock 5000 pages
 * 22:03:56: Atvelonis: Or more
 * 22:03:57: Rozty: if everyone is an admin then no one is
 * 22:04:07: The Lusty Dovahkiin: I agree 100% with Atv
 * 22:04:09: Vuh: !("autoconfirmed" in user_groups) &
 * 22:04:13: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ^
 * 22:04:14: The Crusader of Truth: I mean
 * 22:04:24: The Lusty Dovahkiin: what do you mean
 * 22:04:30: Rozty: i do agree with the abuse filter btw
 * 22:04:33: The Crusader of Truth: I did already give a solution for easily locking/unlocking everything
 * 22:04:34: Vuh: !("autoconfirmed" in user_groups) &
 * 22:04:36: The Crusader of Truth: but this is better
 * 22:04:37: Atvelonis: NS14 is actegory?
 * 22:04:40: Vuh: kategoria is in polish ^^"
 * 22:04:41: Atvelonis: *category
 * 22:04:54: The Lusty Dovahkiin: actegory
 * 22:04:54: The Lusty Dovahkiin: yes
 * 22:04:56: Atvelonis: I only know ns:0. Can never remember the others
 * 22:05:21: Atvelonis: We can use that one Vuh, sure
 * 22:05:27: The Crusader of Truth: When anons vandalize the actegorys
 * 22:05:41: Atvelonis: stop bullying me
 * 22:05:49: The Crusader of Truth: no
 * 22:05:51: Atvelonis: do you want the (hammer)???
 * 22:05:55: The Crusader of Truth: Yes
 * 22:06:21: Kora Stormblade: *meme machine broke*
 * 22:06:22: The Lusty Dovahkiin: make him admin and then ban him
 * 22:06:29: The Crusader of Truth: Im sitting here with blood on my leg I havent cleaned because I wanted to see the moot
 * 22:06:29: Atvelonis: Anyway to vote: "Implement the anon category limitation through an abusefilter, rather than by locking all of the categories on the wiki."
 * 22:06:32: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 22:06:35: The Crusader of Truth: It would be healthier to ban me
 * 22:06:36: The Lusty Dovahkiin: (+)
 * 22:06:39: The Crusader of Truth: (+)
 * 22:06:40: Rozty: (+)
 * 22:06:41: Atvelonis: 4-0-0
 * 22:06:44: Blademaster Jauffre: (+)
 * 22:06:50: Vuh: (=)
 * 22:06:51: The Cat Master: (+)
 * 22:06:56: Atvelonis: 6-1-0
 * 22:07:03: Amulet of Kings: (+)
 * 22:07:07: Atvelonis: 7-1-0
 * 22:07:26: The Crusader of Truth: Lets try dis again hopefully I wont spam
 * 22:07:33: The Crusader of Truth:  y'all folks vote
 * 22:07:36: The Crusader of Truth: ay
 * 22:08:36: Atvelonis: There are 15 people in this chat, and only 1 is a bot, and only one is probably dead. Why no votes?
 * 22:08:41: Kora Stormblade: (+)
 * 22:08:44: Kora Stormblade: srry lol
 * 22:08:44: KINMUNE: Hello there, Bronkiin!
 * 22:08:46: Kora Stormblade: o.
 * 22:08:49: Atvelonis: my dude
 * 22:08:52: Atvelonis: 8-1-0
 * 22:08:52: Bronkiin: :O
 * 22:08:56: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 22:09:03: Bronkiin: How would an abuse filter work?
 * 22:09:12: Bronkiin: If you haven't already covered that
 * 22:09:15: The Crusader of Truth: Anon edits, abuse filter gives a message saying no
 * 22:09:16: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter
 * 22:09:19: Atvelonis: quick script
 * 22:09:32: Atvelonis: Just set it up like the other filters on there
 * 22:09:37: Atvelonis: Very simple
 * 22:09:46: The Crusader of Truth: We would also get a log seeing how many anons try to edit them
 * 22:09:55: Bronkiin: Nice (Y) (+)
 * 22:09:58: The Lusty Dovahkiin: a tool to stalk anons
 * 22:10:00: Atvelonis: 9-1-0
 * 22:10:05: The Crusader of Truth: Pretty much yeah
 * 22:10:09: The Crusader of Truth: Comment rite quick
 * 22:10:14: The Crusader of Truth: We do need to make sure it works right
 * 22:10:15: The Crusader of Truth: I mean
 * 22:10:17: The Lusty Dovahkiin: a tool to stalk anons and say no to them*
 * 22:10:18: The Crusader of Truth: Im sure it will
 * 22:10:19: The Crusader of Truth: /but/
 * 22:10:21: Atvelonis: I love abuse filters tbh. My dream is to one day get a bot smart enough that it can revert vandalism automatically with no significant number of false positives
 * 22:10:22: The Crusader of Truth: still
 * 22:10:35: The Lusty Dovahkiin: Atv, just message Vuh
 * 22:10:45: The Crusader of Truth: After all, a broken abuse filter is the reason Im on this wiki, not Terraria wiki
 * 22:10:52: Atvelonis: vuh gib bot pls
 * 22:10:53: The Crusader of Truth: So abuse filters breaking are very bad
 * 22:11:00: Atvelonis: Well I was thinking of something crazy like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ClueBot_NG
 * 22:11:22: Atvelonis: Which uses a neural network. Very fancy. Would be super hard to make I'm sure
 * 22:11:58: The Crusader of Truth: >when you use yourself as an example of why abuse filters are bad, because they brought you to everyone
 * 22:11:59: The Crusader of Truth: RIP
 * 22:12:04: Vuh: Emmm, no. Neural network can be easy implemented via Python
 * 22:12:12: Amulet of Kings: Atv, we know you are a bot
 * 22:12:33: Atvelonis: I'll pay you 5 schmeckles if you make us a bot that can revert all of our vandalism automatically
 * 22:12:51: Atvelonis: anyway that's not the point
 * 22:12:57: Atvelonis: We can talk about bots later
 * 22:13:00: Kora Stormblade: holy fucc schmeckles? yes please
 * 22:13:09: Vuh: but but VSTF lose their job ;-;
 * 22:13:11: The Beartooth: Can I have some schmeckes
 * 22:13:13: The Beartooth: ?
 * 22:13:56: The Crusader of Truth: @Vuh but didnt like half the VSTF resign anyway
 * 22:14:17: The Crusader of Truth: @Amulet http://prntscr.com/hx00na We already have a bot tho ;(
 * 22:15:02: Atvelonis: Actually nevermind, I don't have a second topic
 * 22:15:32: KINMUNE: Hello there, Krotomo!
 * 22:15:38: Atvelonis: greetings
 * 22:15:39: The Beartooth: O/
 * 22:15:41: Krotomo: what the boi
 * 22:15:46: The Crusader of Truth: @Cat Master dont you have a topic
 * 22:15:47: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 22:16:14: Rozty: it should be the last topic right?
 * 22:16:34: The Crusader of Truth: Atv this guy has come to claim his crat rights, go ahead and give them to him (kappa)
 * 22:16:45: Amulet of Kings: Some guy added a topic 5 mins prior to the moot
 * 22:16:57: The Crusader of Truth: Wonder who that was
 * 22:17:22: Atvelonis: Go ahead Amulet
 * 22:18:26: Rozty: yeah the mystery
 * 22:18:47: The Cat Master: I have one, but it's not super important and can wait
 * 22:18:59: Atvelonis: Alright you can go after Amulet then.
 * 22:19:10: Amulet of Kings: I want to propose to create a new layout for TES novels. When you create a page you can choose various layouts for different games, but there aren't any for TES novels
 * 22:19:47: The Lusty Dovahkiin: Nice idea
 * 22:19:50: The Beartooth: Agree
 * 22:19:55: Rozty: yeah
 * 22:20:00: The Lusty Dovahkiin: I would implement it for the Cyrus comic too
 * 22:20:04: The Lusty Dovahkiin: both novels and the comic
 * 22:20:10: The Lusty Dovahkiin: one layout
 * 22:20:14: Rozty: ^
 * 22:20:20: Atvelonis: On http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Newarticletext?
 * 22:20:29: Rozty: i always forget about the comic
 * 22:20:56: The Crusader of Truth: Comment: Can I make a slightly related comment that I want to get rid of the ones that dont exist
 * 22:20:59: The Crusader of Truth: Like Arena Books
 * 22:21:00: Amulet of Kings: yes
 * 22:21:25: The Crusader of Truth: Because while it looks nice it's horrible
 * 22:21:31: The Lusty Dovahkiin: agreed
 * 22:21:48: Atvelonis: one thing at a time
 * 22:21:56: The Crusader of Truth: okie
 * 22:22:07: Atvelonis: I think some sort of preload template for the Novels would be good
 * 22:22:14: Atvelonis: one for characters, one for locations perhaps
 * 22:22:19: Atvelonis: Do we need more, Amulet?
 * 22:22:25: Amulet of Kings: Not really
 * 22:22:29: Rozty: what kind of pages do the novels have?
 * 22:22:32: The Crusader of Truth: We dont have more, just one for each book right
 * 22:22:35: The Crusader of Truth: Character pages
 * 22:22:40: Amulet of Kings: Toel
 * 22:22:49: The Crusader of Truth: We dont have a locations that Im aware of
 * 22:22:58: Amulet of Kings: Umbriel
 * 22:23:09: Amulet of Kings: Sathil
 * 22:23:21: Rozty: i didn'e even know there was an infobox
 * 22:23:27: Rozty: didn't*
 * 22:23:39: The Crusader of Truth: "toel's last words"
 * 22:23:43: The Crusader of Truth: no fuck that spoiled it
 * 22:23:54: The Crusader of Truth: oof
 * 22:24:03: The Crusader of Truth: And yeah, I created the infoboxes about a year ago or so
 * 22:24:13: Rozty: maybe it needs a bit changing then lol
 * 22:24:29: The Crusader of Truth: I /was/ going to do what Amulet is doing but my attention span is about as long as a 2 inch stick
 * 22:24:46: The Crusader of Truth: The infobox itself is actually fine
 * 22:24:49: Atvelonis: I still need to finish my summaries for all the strategy guides. But they keep making more, and I keep getting sidetracked
 * 22:24:52: The Crusader of Truth: Just, presets
 * 22:24:58: Atvelonis: I'm getting off-topic. Preloads, good, yes?
 * 22:24:58: Atvelonis: Vote
 * 22:24:59: Atvelonis: ?
 * 22:25:00: Rozty: was talking about the quote
 * 22:25:08: The Crusader of Truth: o
 * 22:25:10: Rozty: and yes
 * 22:25:16: The Lusty Dovahkiin: (+)
 * 22:25:19: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 22:25:21: The Crusader of Truth: (+)
 * 22:25:23: Blademaster Jauffre: (+)
 * 22:25:23: Amulet of Kings: (+)
 * 22:25:24: Rozty: (+)
 * 22:25:27: Atvelonis: 6-0-0
 * 22:25:36: Amulet of Kings: I'll change the quote then
 * 22:25:42: The Cat Master: (+)
 * 22:25:46: Atvelonis: 7-0-0
 * 22:25:47: Atvelonis: Crus, do your mass ping
 * 22:25:55: The Crusader of Truth: yes sir
 * 22:26:07: The Crusader of Truth: Come my children
 * 22:26:44: Nekyn Alb: (+)
 * 22:26:49: Atvelonis: 8-0-0
 * 22:26:51: Kora Stormblade: Whats the vote on?
 * 22:27:12: The Beartooth: Yeah whats the vote about?
 * 22:27:13: Bronkiin: (+)
 * 22:27:24: The Crusader of Truth: Infernal city / Souls presets
 * 22:27:24: Kora Stormblade: Ah nvm
 * 22:27:28: The Crusader of Truth: In the Mediawiki creation
 * 22:27:29: Atvelonis: 9-0-0
 * 22:27:31: Kora Stormblade: (+)
 * 22:27:33: The Beartooth: (Plus)
 * 22:27:34: Atvelonis: 10-0-0
 * 22:27:42: The Crusader of Truth: (]+)
 * 22:27:43: Atvelonis: It's (+) to vote, lorvaul
 * 22:27:44: The Crusader of Truth: oof
 * 22:27:47: The Crusader of Truth: ([]]+)
 * 22:27:48: The Beartooth: Ah shite
 * 22:27:51: The Crusader of Truth: o o f
 * 22:27:53: The Lusty Dovahkiin: lel
 * 22:28:07: Atvelonis: Any remaining votes? Count stands at 10-0-0 right now
 * 22:28:09: The Crusader of Truth: Ill handle making the moot log btw
 * 22:28:16: The Crusader of Truth: Gotta get rid of my mistakes
 * 22:28:29: Rozty: no altering the facts
 * 22:28:36: The Crusader of Truth: (kappa)
 * 22:28:55: The Beartooth: Crus, getting rid of your mistakes would be getting rid of your existence
 * 22:29:01: The Beartooth: XD
 * 22:29:05: The Crusader of Truth: that was the joke damnit
 * 22:29:08: Atvelonis: Are you going to place a vote beartooth?
 * 22:29:16: The Beartooth: (+)
 * 22:29:17: Atvelonis: Or anyone else
 * 22:29:20: Atvelonis: 11-0-0
 * 22:29:27: Atvelonis: If that's all then Cat has a topic
 * 22:29:46: The Crusader of Truth: /me summons The Cat Master
 * 22:29:57: Rozty: wrong spell
 * 22:30:12: The Crusader of Truth: /me asks The Cat Master to talk
 * 22:30:13: The Crusader of Truth: better?
 * 22:30:42: Rozty: didn't have anyone leave from the chat so probably yeah
 * 22:30:55: The Beartooth: Your a wizard, Crus!
 * 22:31:15: The Crusader of Truth: *you're
 * 22:31:23: The Crusader of Truth: I'm going to go tend to my toe before I bleed out, brb
 * 22:31:31: The Beartooth: Fuck off grammanazi
 * 22:31:35: The Beartooth: Lol
 * 22:32:07: The Beartooth: Ý
 * 22:32:20: The Beartooth: Sorry pressed enter again my bad
 * 22:32:36: Atvelonis: @Crus I made a shortcut TES:CIRCLE
 * 22:32:48: Atvelonis: Actually the same length as the real thing but you know, consistency
 * 22:33:39: The Cat Master: My computer is acting up . We can get to mine next month
 * 22:34:27: Rozty: rip
 * 22:34:31: Amulet of Kings: c'est tout
 * 22:34:46: Atvelonis: Alright
 * 22:34:47: Rozty: hon hon hon
 * 22:34:50: The Lusty Dovahkiin: hello
 * 22:34:55: Atvelonis: hi luxy
 * 22:34:56: Rozty: that is the french laugh right?
 * 22:35:03: Atvelonis: Does anyone else have a topic?
 * 22:35:04: Luxy Dragoon: Hey
 * 22:35:08: Rozty: nope
 * 22:35:10: Atvelonis: Crus?
 * 22:36:37: The Beartooth: Crus is dead
 * 22:36:47: The Lusty Dovahkiin: I'd go to patch up his leg
 * 22:36:49: The Lusty Dovahkiin: eh
 * 22:36:52: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/d/p/3100000000000109823
 * 22:36:54: Atvelonis: 175 upvotes
 * 22:36:55: Atvelonis: how
 * 22:37:19: The Beartooth: Hehe I just took away my upvote so its now 174
 * 22:37:43: Atvelonis: Well, if there are no more topics, the moot is over.
 * 22:37:52: Amulet of Kings: There aren't so many active /d users, are there?
 * 22:37:59: The Lusty Dovahkiin: Thanks
 * 22:38:11: The Lusty Dovahkiin: and see you again on discord anytime and next moot sometime
 * 22:38:26: Rozty: don't think there are
 * 22:38:31: Atvelonis: @Amulet: I'm not sure how many active /d users there are. Probably not that many
 * 22:38:38: Rozty: suspicious
 * 22:38:39: Atvelonis: At least not 175 people active at the same time to upvote that
 * 22:38:55: Atvelonis: On the main wiki the stat is like 300 "active" users, meaning people who have edited in the past month
 * 22:39:00: Atvelonis: Special:Statistics
 * 22:39:01: The Beartooth: They were upvoting it since yesterday
 * 22:39:08: Atvelonis: 350 right now
 * 22:39:12: Blademaster Jauffre: I think there are 10~20 active discussion users at best
 * 22:39:16: Blademaster Jauffre: including myself
 * 22:39:31: Atvelonis: There are surely more commenters than that
 * 22:39:33: Atvelonis: And many more lurkers
 * 22:39:37: Atvelonis: But even so, not 175?
 * 22:39:39: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ^
 * 22:39:39: The Beartooth: Shh, Jauffre youre giving the hacking secret away
 * 22:39:51: Rozty: and i haven't even upvoted it
 * 22:39:52: Vuh: https://wikiapiary.com/w/index.php?title=Elder_Scrolls_Wiki_(en)
 * 22:40:14: Vuh: Active users growing
 * 22:40:28: The Crusader of Truth: Atv, are we still doing the moot
 * 22:40:32: The Crusader of Truth: Or did I miss the end of it
 * 22:40:42: Kora Stormblade: I think you missed it
 * 22:40:44: Rozty: that's a bit too steep
 * 22:40:55: Rozty: suspicious
 * 22:40:55: The Crusader of Truth: Fuck
 * 22:41:06: Atvelonis: Vuh I swear you literally have an answer to every one of our problems
 * 22:41:15: The Crusader of Truth: Because I do have that thing to mention
 * 22:41:20: Kora Stormblade: o h
 * 22:41:21: The Crusader of Truth: discuss
 * 22:41:53: Rozty: we are all still here so i think we can mention it?
 * 22:42:09: The Beartooth: Why does Vuh have a plus?
 * 22:42:15: The Crusader of Truth: @Atv Can I?
 * 22:42:17: Kora Stormblade: Theyre a helper
 * 22:42:21: The Beartooth: Ah
 * 22:42:21: Kora Stormblade: from wikia
 * 22:42:29: The Beartooth: Even more ah
 * 22:42:34: Atvelonis: What thing?
 * 22:42:54: The Crusader of Truth: Earlier when you said one thing at a time and I was discussing getting rid of the extra page creations
 * 22:43:03: The Crusader of Truth: Stuff like Arena: Books, that do not exist
 * 22:43:54: Testydragon: So, I assume the moot is still in session? Am I interrupting something?
 * 22:43:56: The Crusader of Truth: I need to put pressure on my toe because it's kinda bad btw so plz dont make this long
 * 22:43:58: The Crusader of Truth: Yes
 * 22:44:03: Testydragon: Sorry
 * 22:44:05: The Crusader of Truth: To the moot being in session that is
 * 22:44:08: The Crusader of Truth: No you're fine
 * 22:44:36: The Beartooth: (+)
 * 22:44:39: Kora Stormblade: Oh that makes sense
 * 22:44:43: The Crusader of Truth: No vote yet
 * 22:44:44: Kora Stormblade: We arent voting yet bear
 * 22:44:50: The Beartooth: Ah fuck
 * 22:44:56: The Crusader of Truth: But yeah there is literally no reason to have it except for it to look nice
 * 22:45:14: Kora Stormblade: So basically removing/deleting categories which are useless and not needed? I mean I dont see a reason why not
 * 22:45:21: The Beartooth: And decorate it with unicorn vampires
 * 22:45:22: The Crusader of Truth: No Kora
 * 22:45:24: The Lusty Dovahkiin: I agree
 * 22:45:28: The Crusader of Truth: W*Hruhu4ijfjrf
 * 22:45:28: Kora Stormblade: rip lol
 * 22:45:32: The Crusader of Truth: Use page creation
 * 22:45:39: The Crusader of Truth: Scroll to Arena
 * 22:45:54: Atvelonis: We should also make preloads for those
 * 22:45:59: The Crusader of Truth: Hint: There are no books in Arena
 * 22:46:04: The Lusty Dovahkiin: I agree with Crus
 * 22:46:12: The Crusader of Truth: There are 0 books in Arena
 * 22:46:16: The Crusader of Truth: No books = no pages
 * 22:46:21: Rozty: there aren't any?
 * 22:46:22: The Crusader of Truth: Why have a preset for something that doesnt exist?
 * 22:46:26: The Crusader of Truth: No
 * 22:46:29: Rozty: no texts or anyhthing?
 * 22:46:33: The Crusader of Truth: Nodda
 * 22:46:37: Amulet of Kings: Nope
 * 22:46:37: The Crusader of Truth: None that I've heard of
 * 22:46:55: Rozty: then it should be removed yeah
 * 22:47:00: Atvelonis: nah it looks n ice
 * 22:47:03: Atvelonis: *nice
 * 22:47:04: The Crusader of Truth: Like, if there were maybe 30 books I could see an argument
 * 22:47:12: The Crusader of Truth: But that is just useless and slightly misleading
 * 22:47:13: Rozty: it's not like many will see it
 * 22:47:22: The Crusader of Truth: I spent a year thinking we were missing Arena books
 * 22:47:24: Rozty: only if you want to create a page
 * 22:47:26: Kora Stormblade: I do agree with crus on that yea, I can see where he's coming from
 * 22:47:52: Atvelonis: um excuse me sweetie, Codex Scientia
 * 22:48:01: Atvelonis: "Arena book"
 * 22:48:06: The Crusader of Truth: That is not ingame
 * 22:48:18: Rozty: is it tho?
 * 22:48:19: The Lusty Dovahkiin: xD
 * 22:48:22: Kora Stormblade: damnn
 * 22:48:25: Kora Stormblade: double whammied
 * 22:48:27: The Crusader of Truth: We don't file stuff like the Daggerfall manual as Daggerfall books
 * 22:48:29: The Lusty Dovahkiin: From what I know, there are no books in arena so wtfff
 * 22:48:33: Atvelonis: I know it was just a meme
 * 22:48:37: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ah lol
 * 22:48:41: The Crusader of Truth: So I say we remove it
 * 22:48:46: Atvelonis: Indifferent
 * 22:48:48: Atvelonis: Go ahead
 * 22:48:52: The Crusader of Truth: Vote?
 * 22:49:03: The Crusader of Truth: Okay
 * 22:49:10: The Beartooth: (_
 * 22:49:11: Rozty: ye
 * 22:49:12: Kora Stormblade: that was a good meme tho 8/8 (pinch)
 * 22:49:17: The Beartooth: (-)
 * 22:49:27: Rozty: (+)
 * 22:49:29: The Crusader of Truth: Bear tf you werent even here
 * 22:49:35: The Crusader of Truth: Anyway
 * 22:49:36: The Crusader of Truth: (+)
 * 22:49:47: Kora Stormblade: (+)
 * 22:49:51: The Beartooth: Yeah I was. About the Arena books.
 * 22:49:52: The Crusader of Truth: Vote: For removing the page creation for books in Arena, since there are none
 * 22:49:58: Atvelonis: (=)
 * 22:50:01: Atvelonis: 3-1-1
 * 22:50:18: The Crusader of Truth: Why oppose, then?
 * 22:50:23: Rozty: everyone else is ded
 * 22:50:25: Amulet of Kings: (+)
 * 22:50:28: Atvelonis: 4-1-1
 * 22:50:29: Amulet of Kings: Not me
 * 22:50:29: Rozty: they don't get to vote
 * 22:50:39: Atvelonis: I found a listing of Arena on Ebay some time ago that had the Codex in it
 * 22:50:51: The Crusader of Truth:  yall come out
 * 22:50:52: Atvelonis: But it didn't have the colored cover so idk if it was the full thing
 * 22:50:53: The Lusty Dovahkiin: (+)
 * 22:50:55: The Beartooth: I am sure there are Arena books
 * 22:50:57: Atvelonis: 5-1-1
 * 22:51:03: The Crusader of Truth: There are no Arena books
 * 22:51:12: The Beartooth: Somewhere there is
 * 22:51:14: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Arena:_Books
 * 22:51:16: Atvelonis: zilch
 * 22:51:19: The Crusader of Truth: Oof
 * 22:51:20: Amulet of Kings: If there are it can always be implemented again
 * 22:51:26: Rozty: so empty
 * 22:51:31: The Beartooth: Over the rainbow there are Arena books
 * 22:51:33: Atvelonis: "This category currently contains no pages or media."
 * 22:51:36: The Crusader of Truth: My there's 8000 books in Arena
 * 22:51:40: The Crusader of Truth: My bad, forget this
 * 22:51:43: The Lusty Dovahkiin: *sad music playing*
 * 22:51:44: Rozty: what
 * 22:51:46: The Crusader of Truth: (sarcasm)
 * 22:51:51: Rozty: u little
 * 22:51:56: The Crusader of Truth: (kappa)
 * 22:52:14: Qahnaarin1997: You know what's really empty, Rozty?
 * 22:52:15: Atvelonis: Okay moot over for real now