User talk:ZhugeQuanqiang/Archive 1



Welcome, !

Hello, welcome to the Elder Scrolls Wiki! We're building a collaborative source of information for, and we need your help! We saw you making some changes to our articles and thank you for it. We hope you choose to further this project, and we hope to see you around in the future. If you choose to stay, here are some links to help you out:

Editing policies
 * Policies and guidelines
 * Style guide
 * Media policies

Help out
 * Getting started
 * Pages needing attention
 * Image requests

User policies
 * User signatures
 * User images

FAQ
 * Help directory
 * Editing help

I hope you enjoy editing here! If you have any questions, see the help pages or ask one of our administrators.


 * --Timeoin (talk) 10:26, March 3, 2017 (UTC)

Get off my Lawn Bladeamateur Jauffre
"No offense, do you even know to respect the thread owner's wish to talk solely about the topic whether was Ulfric brainwashed into killing Torygg or you are simply too obsessed with talking down to me because my opinion differs from yours?

Nepos the Nose is a forsworn and his statement was clearly referring to people belonging to his side: Forsworn. Last I checked, Ulfric's militia was there to liberate Markarth of Forsworn rule and return it to the Nords: Empire's allies for the longest time... which the Imperial Scholar was implying they were planning to betray their longest time ally by recognizing the Forsworn's conquest of Markarth out of convenience.

Seeing how none of the Forsworns or people of Markarth had never even said anything about massacre or even bear resentment to Ulfric your accusation of Ulfric is null as there is a statement: Innocent until proven otherwise. Nepos the Nose did not say anything about non-Forsworns.

Don't talk about genocide? Not even the Imperial supporters and those who dislike Ulfric? I find it unlikely seeing you jump at the opportunity to try and talk my heads off about Ulfric being guilty of committing genocide.

To be honest, your picture of Ulfric is hilariously similar to a one-dimensional badly written villain while Bethesda is clearly trying to write Ulfric as a controversial character and not like what you're trying to impose "Rawr I am so selfish and evil I don't care about anyone except myself, all Nords can die for me while I act like a hypocrite to get them to support me because about 40% of the Nords (Europeans) are so stupid they'll gladly die like idiots for me, the me who has absolutely zero redeeming attribute"

Despite your first line being irony in itself, since you also continued with the argument, I'll continue here.

1. Yes, and? That doesn't invalidate the book now does it? Anybody who didn't lift a sword in Ulfric's name -- aka, Forsworn sympathizers -- were killed. And Ulfric might have tried so, yes, but the Empire never gave permission, not to forget that it isn't a betrayal to recognise an independent Kingdom. If it were, the Empire also betrayed its people when they recognised Orsinium as its own land.

2. And? That doesn't invalidate my point, those who weren't with the Forsworn sided against them, and of course they don't talk about it -- does the LDB ever ask about it? Nope. Nepos the Nose, Braig and the Bear of Markarth all agree that there were massacres, so they did happen, Ulfric's to blame.

3. I do hope you also realise that none of the people of Markarth mention Forsworn being thrown into Cidna mine and that none of them mention Madanach until after you help him escape Markarth. Just because they don't talk about it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

4. If Ulfric cared for his people, why did he kill Torygg instead of asking for independence? Why did he back the Thalmor? Why did he invade neutral Whiterun? Why does he send the bulk of his guard to fight in a war, while there's a murderer in his streets? Why is he racist? Ulfric's after power and after power only. I have tons of evidence, you just dismiss it because you're an Ulfric fanboy. Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 13:20, March 10, 2017 (UTC)

'''Blah Blah Blah.... don't come and stink up my talk page. Shoo Shoo.... ha what a joke. You are the one who came and talk about the Markarth incident, trying to inflict your personal opinions upon others forcing me to agree with you because for you, it seems like if others is not with you, they are against you and must be dealt with as much prejudice as Ulfric Stormcloaks would. You have become the very same bias tyrant as Ulfric Stormcloak'''

1. Ha! What a joke, Yes it invalidates your point and book. What he says does not automatically validates those who weren't Forsworns. He only mentioned his people. Briag only confirms it was the Jarl, not Ulfric Stormcloak who committed the atrocities.

2. Yes. Very big yes. Innocent until proven other wise. That is part of the intention of keeping ambiguity which you are trying to change into a stupid one dimensional villain.

3. Actually there are implication all over the place. While there is no such indication from the people of Markarth and the Jarl himself that Ulfric had performed genocide on His City. The far more highly likeliihood of why the Jarl did not say anything is in fact he was the one who committed the militant executions.

4. I believe the whole idea of the topic was to talk about a specific subject: Whether Ulfric was brainwashed by the Thalmor into killing Torygg and starting the Civil War. My piece for that topic was that while there is a chance for it to happen, but due to insufficient information to confirms, I held by opinion as one is innocent until proven otherwise. Those pathetic pieces of opinions you provide are simply insufficient.

Just because I do not agree with your opinions overly full of fanatical hatred for a fictional character in the Elder Scrolls does not mean I am an Ulfric fanboy as I disilike him a great deal for reasons than yours. As I do have a life and a serious lacking interests in wasting my time talking about something as small and trivial as Ulfric Stormcloak ZhugeQuanqiang (talk) 18:06, March 10, 2017 (UTC) ZhugeQuanqiang (talk) 17:57, March 10, 2017 (UTC)

Because the Markarth Incident directly proves that Ulfric wasn't "brainwashed", as you think. And I seriously suggest looking up the definition of "bias", I hate Ulfric because of what he is, that's not bias, since I base my opinion on the facts.

1. Just because Istlod continued it doesn't mean Ulfric didn't do it. Nepos isn't invalidated by any means. And those who weren't with the Forsworn probably don't like talking about how they had to massacre the native population of Markarth. Think logically for once, if you survived WW2, and someone went up and made up a conversation with you, do you start to say, out of nowhere "yeah and my comrads died during WW2"? No you don't. If you don't ask, you can't expect people to speak about it.

2. And it is proven otherwise -- by Nepos the Nose and the Bear of Markarth. Prove to me that Ulfric didn't start doing it the moment he took over the Reach -- as Nepos the Nose implies.

3. That's not likely at all, since Ulfric still had the right to demand the Legion which returned from the Great War, to accept the free Talos worship. Ulfric was the true ruler of the Reach at the time, not the Jarl.

4. No they are not. He isn't brainwashed, since he had direct and cooperative contact with the Thalmor prior to his imprisonment, then he became uncooperative and only after that did he kill Torygg.

For someone who doesn't want to "waste his time talking about Ulfric", you sure seem like a hypocrite for typing out all that nonsense on the forums and on this talkpage. Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 23:35, March 10, 2017 (UTC)

1. That is not what survivors of WWII behaved. They were pretty forecoming with what happened. Even the Japanese Soldiers as I have spoken to a former Japanese Soldier who survived WWII before. I've also spoken with elderly who survived WWII and the Japanese's atrocities. They sure as hell gave quite an enlightening details to what atrocities were done.

2. It is not proven otherwise. Nepos the Nose said "We" which by definition the Forsworn. Forsworns who didn't run were killed as they were the enemy in Ulfric and his Militia's eyes. There is no evidence just your wishful thinking that Ulfric murdered innocents for fun.

3: Ulfric demanded this and that. It was from the Bear of Markarth book. Nowhere in the game while I was in Markarth the people there had done anything.

"The Nords didn't care who was and who wasn't involved in the Forsworn Uprising. I had spoken to Madanach once, that was enough."

"But my little Aethra didn't want to see her papa leave her. She pleaded to the JARL to take her instead. And after they made me watch as her head rolled off the block, they threw me in here anyway, to dig up their silver."

Pretty sure he was directed at the JARL of Markarth who was Igmund. Who was implied to have left the execution of punishments to the Silverbloods seeing how they had so much power in Markarth. Then there is an issue you don't see, for the Bear of Markarth, written by an Imperial Scholar who was living in Imperial City during the events of the Markarth Incident and wrote it years after the events took place and was not there when it happened, probably wrote it for Imperial Propaganda against the Stormcloaks. Not a surprise but could've done better.

There is no solid evidence for either way. It is merely up there for interpretations for sake of ambiguity.

Actually, I am getting sick of this topic is entirely on you. It's your fault because I wasn't going to talk about '''MY OPINION about Ulfric Stormcloak's motives and whether he was responsible for the claims of massacred in Markarth and MY OPINION that I AM ENTITLED TO, was COMPLETELY DISRESPECTED BY YOU. ZhugeQuanqiang (talk) 00:02, March 11, 2017 (UTC)'''


 * Just ignore Jauffre. Responding to his rants will just feed his ego. The Cat Master (talk) 00:38, March 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, it's quite obvious after replying to the second comment from him. What amazed me the most is not his persistence or knowledge of the lore that is made readily available on the Internet nor his poor biased arguments that he strongly denies. But how he coincidentally exhibit almost every symptom of a psychological problem I read about in a psychology book.  ZhugeQuanqiang (talk) 02:56, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

1. Right, but did they tell you that while you just met them on the street, or did you actually ask them what WW2 was like? My bet is the second one, since nobody starts talking about a dark age without reason.

2. Except that those Forsworn are exactly the people who did get massacred, so it validates the Bear of Markarth. We = Forsworn, Forsworn got massacred, BOM says people got massacred, so, fact.

3. You don't promise something without reason. Add that up with the BOM being valid this far, there's no reason it's suddenly wrong here.

Mate, Imperial scholar refers to RACE, not the people they support, there are also books where the author is a "Nord scholar", the point is that they are scholars, nothing else. If he were to write Imperial propaganda, why does he speak good about the Forsworn -- who the Empire hates for the most part and vice-versa?

Then stop. Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 14:42, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

1. Wrong, he offers to tell people about the truth behind WWII.

2. Wrong, We Forsworn = Just forsworn. The innocents that Bear of Markarth mentioned? Nope. No one valids. Bear of Markarth = dubious at best.

3. Actually, it is free for interpretation, as you possess intense hatred that seemed to have stemmed from extreme prejudice feelings towards the fictional character Ulfric Stormcloak, you'll naturally interpret it in a way that justify your emotional imbalance you are desperately seeking to balance out instinctively. When asking Igmund directly, he did mentioned "they (Likely Him and Markarth authorities) promised Ulfric and his Militia free worship of Talos later forced by circumstances to turn on the same Milita that helped them. PS: He also said that the Forsworn's conquest was a little more than a chaotic uprising that removed Imperial influence from The Reach for 2 years.

Bear of Markarth's time lends its discredibility. The race or not is of no concern. The timing of its appearance and how it tries to convict Ulfric Stormcloak while falling short in concrete evidence is the evidence itself that Bethesda wished for Ulfric's actions in Markarth Incident left in ambiguity.

No you stop, or I will stop you here because of the most simple thing: "Get off my lawn or I vindicate you out"

I don't make a Wikia account so you can harass me over such a stupid and tiny affair such as Ulfric Stormcloak. This is the last warning or I will remove all your attempts to communicate with me and lodge a complaint to higher ranking Moderators. ZhugeQuanqiang (talk) 17:30, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

1. Even if he offers, you still need to ask him. And since we never ask the people of Markarth what exactly occured, we can't blame them for not talking about it.

2. "Every official who worked for the Forsworn was put to the sword, even after they had surrendered" -The Bear of Markarth So no, not wrong, as I said, Nepos confirms it.

3. You don't promise something that is banned without a good reason. If Ulfric didn't demand it, they wouldn't offer it, simply because of the risk that Ulfric might have been a law-abiding citizen. And so what if Igmund calls it that? Notice how Igmund wasn't there for the most part since he fled the city and went to Ulfric?

First of all, you can't say "the timing of its appearance", since we don't know the date on which the book was published. Secondly, seeing as its words are largely confirmed, and not contradicted by anything, it's safe to say that it's lore-friendly.

I suggest looking up the talkpage policy, this isn't your property, removing my replies is not allowed. You're able to archive them, but not remove. http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Wiki:Talkpage_policy

I'm not harrassing you, if you don't want to continue, I can respect that and will leave you be, but then you also need to stop adressing this topic. An argument goes both ways, and I'm not stopping until we both agree to end, I'm not speaking about an "I have the last word" end, but a mutual one.

All I'm trying to do is teach, nothing more. Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 19:00, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

1. We did, Igmund, Nepos and Briag were pretty much similar to how easily the elderly Japanese man told me about the Japanese war atrocities.

2. Nepos confirmed nothing about those who worked with the Forsworn. He used a very general term. He did not confirm if Ulfric had committed any war atrocities to the innocent populace of Markarth.

3. Demand or not, it was part of an agreement that Igmund said they had agreed to Ulfric in an alleged negotiation for his help in driving out the Forsworn.

First of all, the words are dubious at best. Bear of Markarth's time can be gauged, not only that, Bear of Markarth was deliberately written by Besthesda as a personal attack on a singular individual. Since it came out after the Markarth incident, also the author of the books Bear of Markarth and The "Madmen of the Reach" intentions are dubious as well. Since his books had a core focus on a hidden underlying message which is to create sympathy for the Forsworn. It was also as if encouraging the Empire to betray a portion of the land that belonged to a part of it to a group that views them and their ally as enemies does not bode well for him as well.

It is likely to be used by the Empire as propaganda in the lore to manipulate it's people's thinking into... similar to be yours. In fact, you fell for a simple thinking control any country will establish at a different level of degrees.

You are not tryingh to teach Blade Amateur Jauffre, you are harassing me because I have my own opinion that does not agrees with you. You have proven that you are unable to respect other's wishes by continuously refusing to respect my wish even after I stated specifically so that nothing you say will change my mind about the topic as the so called evidence is not suffice for me. Since you claimed you can respect other's wishes, prove it this time. Get the F**k off my talk page and stop trying to inflict your opinion on me. ZhugeQuanqiang (talk) 06:35, March 12, 2017 (UTC)