Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-209.7.3.188-20160303204000/@comment-30011802-20161103022946

"Ulfric & the Stormcloaks are racist".

Probably the most common argument against the Stormcloaks. But what if I told you this argument was actually wrong? Well, let's go over it shall we? Let's start with the Gray Quarter, most people think that Ulfric forces all of Windhelm's Dunmer to live in the slum known as the Gray Quarter. But with some research you would realize this to be quite untrue. The Dunmer are not forced to live anywhere. The live in nanny for the Cruel-Seas, and the owner of the Hlaalu farm do not. If Ulfric truly wanted to segregate them why do two Dunmer not live there? Consider this, the Dunmer probably moved to Windhelm right after the eruption of the Red Mountain or the Argonian invasion. Both of witch happened before Ulfric was Jarl. So they must've lived in the Gray Quarter before Ulfric was in power. For whatever reason it must've fallen apart and became what it is today. You might be thinking, "Why doesn't Ulfric fix it?" He's in the middle of a war, it's a rebellion fighting an Empire, it's not going to be easy. Another reason is if they did ruin it on their own, it's not Ulfric's responsibility to fix it. If they destroyed it on their own, why would the Jarl have to spend tax payers dollers to fix something that's not even city property? The next is the Argonians, I actually don't think they are completely forbidden from entering the city. It's never said they can't go in at all? It's just said they can't live in it. Maybe they can't live in it because their is no room. Do you know four empty houses in Windhelm they could move into? Also, Shahvee bought an amulet of Zenithar. Where would she have gotten that from? Inside the city perhaps? Finallly, the Khajiit Caravans aren't allowed in any cities, Stormcloak or Imperial. So you can't just blame the Stormcloaks for that.

"Ulfric just wants to be High King".

This is actually a baseless assumption for the most part. Because nothing in the game shows this. He actually has shown to be the opposite. Just the way I have seen him acting towards Galmar has shown that to me. You could give the argument that he's faking it, but why? Galmar is his second in command, I don't think he would have to hide much from him. I feel that this is a very weak argument with little to no basis in reality.

"Ulfric cheated in his duel with Torygg because he used the Thu'um to murder Torygg".

What people fail to realize is that it doesn't matter how Ulfric won the duel. It was supposed to show that if the High King couldn't protect himself, how was he supposed to protect Skyrim? Ulfric, a Jarl could do that better then Troygg, a High King. Which shows that Ulfric deserved the position more then Torygg. If someone is trying to hurt Skyrim, they aren't going to try and be fair. They're going to try and destroy it. You as High King should be able to protect it from that.

"The Stormcloaks don't stand a chance against the Dominion".

First of all, the Nords have been fighting Elves for years. Why would the Dominion be any different? Most would say, "the whole Empire couldn't beat them, how would only the Nords do it?". Actually, though the Empire was wounded, the Dominion was also very weakened. Their main general was killed and every soldier in Cyordiil. That was one of the largest armies ever assmbled in Elven history. And since Elves reproduce slower, they would probably have a much harder time recovering. Hammerfell alone was able to beat them, and they were just as hurt as Cyordiil from the Great War, they also had a civil war between the Crowns and the Forbears before that. So Hammerfell was not in a good position and yet they still beat the Dominion. Why can't Skyrim? Also, they could make an allaince with Hammerfell and the two of them could work together. Also, the Stormcloaks offered High Rock an allaince, they didn't instantly reject them which shows that they might be thinking about it. These three nations would put up one hell of a fight for the Dominion.

"The Thalmor Dossier says that Ulfric is a pawn of the Thalmor, so if the Stormcloaks win you're helping the Thalmor".

Not entirely true. The reason the Thalmor would consider him an asset is because he might help start a war in Skyrim. That's what the Thalmor want, a long drawn bloody war. They actually say in the Dossier "A Stormcloak victory is to be avoided". If the war is ended quickly the Thalmor won't get the benefit because little lives and resources will have been lost.

"In the Bear of Markarth in said that Ulfric tourted innocent people and killed anyone who didn't help him".

The Bear of Markarth is pure propaganda. The author is an Imperial scholar as well as a Forsworn sympathizer. If Ulfric truly killed tortued and killed all of those innocents that were on the other side, why doesn't he kill any Jarls or citizens that support the Empire? He actully does out of his way to spear them. Also, if Ulfric truly killed everyone who didn't help him, why isn't he doing that with the Stormcloaks? It would actually go against what they say in game. Galmar says that the Stormcloaks only accept people good, honest, warriors, who actually want to join. Another thing is why doesn't anyone in Cidnha Mine talk about Ulfric? If he did all of these bad things, I'm pretty sure they would have some bad things to say about him, right? But nope, they say nothing about him.

"In Sovngarde Ulfric admits his cause was wrong".

No, he actually doesn't. He's upset the war started at the time it did because since so many soldiers were dying a lot more souls were in Sovngarde for Alduin to eat. So he's upset about that, nothing about him being wrong.

Overall, I feel the Empire was wrong for signing the White-Gold Concordat. They could've beaten the Dominion if they just kept fighting (for the reasons I explained). And I've heard all of these arguments against the Stormcloaks freqently and I just wanted to give my two cents about it.