Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-71.58.163.238-20130703034923/@comment-71.61.177.24-20140327143735

Dovahsebrom wrote: 71.61.177.24 wrote: Dovahsebrom wrote: Actually there is no difference between Dragonblooded and Dragonborn;

"Because of this connection with the Emperors, however, the other significance of the Dragonborn has been obscured and largely forgotten by all but scholars and those of us dedicated to the service of the blessed Talos, Who Was Tiber Septim. Very few realize that being Dragonborn is not a simple matter of heredity - being the blessing of Akatosh Himself, it is beyond our understanding exactly how and why it is bestowed"

-The Book of the Dragonborn That doesn't have anything to do with the (very much existant, in case you were wondering) difference between Dragonborn and Septim Dragonborn (I refuse to call it "Dragonblooded" as there is no lore precedent for this title, but they are referred to as Dragonborn despite their obvious differences). Please try to actually cite sources that at least have something to do with your point. Non sequitir is not your friend. - WorshipsMeridia I'm referring to the fact that their is no evidence what so ever that there is a difference between the terms "Dragon blooded" and "Dragonborn", as the term "Dragon blooded" is often mistakenly used by people to refer to the heirs of "Dragonborns" (even though people of the Dragon blood are Dragonborns). If you don't f*cking believe me then read this quote from the same exact book.

" Those blessed by Akatosh with "the dragon blood" became known more simply as Dragonborn." (Abolutetely synonymous terms)

Now add that to the original quote

Very few realize that being Dragonborn is not a simple matter of heredity - being the blessing of Akatosh Himself, it is beyond our understanding exactly how and why it is bestowed"

The only difference between the Dovahkiin and the Septim rulers is that the Dovahkiin was much more powerful (which I believe is because he's probably a Shezarrine), knew the Thu'um, and actually absorbed other dragon's souls.

Now, with it firmly established that the true Dragonborn is being referred to, we can move to the non-hereditary bit. This essentially means that the Septim Dynasty was NOT made up of Dragonborns, because Dragonborn as a status of blessing is not hereditary. They may have been Septim Dragonborn, due to a link with the Amulet of Kings/descendance from Tiber/both, but they were definitely NOT full-blown, Shouts-and-Souls Dragonborn. 'This essentially means that the Septim Dynasty was NOT made up of Dragonborns, because Dragonborn as a status of blessing is not hereditary. '

And what exactly is your evidence that they aren't blessed by Akatosh just as any other dragonborn is?

They may have been Septim Dragonborn, due to a link with the Amulet of Kings/descendance from Tiber/both

Well seeing as the last non-dragonborn who tried to rekindle the dragonfires with the Amulet of Kings (Varen Aquilarios) broke the covenant in the process, I'd have to say that the whole "only a dragonborn can rekindle the Dragonfires" business is 100% true. It has also already been stated that heredity has nothing to do with the Dragonblood

but they were definitely NOT full-blown, Shouts-and-Souls Dragonborn.

Why exactly do you think that? Are you forgetting that the only reason why the Dovahkiin was discovered and actually able to shout was because he absorbed the soul/knowledge of Mirmulnir, a dragon, and that "There weren't any dragons then, idiot. They're just coming back now for the first time in... forever."... -facepalm-

See, the problem here is that you're assuming that the Septims were Dragonborns and using that as evidence.

" Those blessed by Akatosh with "the dragon blood" became known more simply as Dragonborn." (Abolutetely synonymous terms) BLESSED. BY. AKATOSH.

You see, here is where we enter the realm of "You just flat were not listening before." Dragonborns - proper Dragonborns - are blessed by Akatosh. It literally says, in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE, that this blessing is NOT hereditary - it is not passed down from parent to offspring. And yes, "Dragon Blood" is synonymous with being Dragonborn. Now do you see why I refused to use the term "Dragonblooded" for the Septim Emperors? BECAUSE MY ENTIRE ARGUMENT IS THAT IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THEM. I never called them Dragonblooded. Now, they are referred to as dragonblooded. But this is because they have the blood of Tiber Septim - not true Dragonblood of Akatosh.

Re-read my post carefully, examine my evidence, and please try not to come back with a flame post. Try for a well-thought-out, patient response that actually ackgnowledges that I said anything beyond "No the Spetimsss wernt Dragunborn tey wur dragonblood lol its so obvious look". I did actually post a wall of text including circumstantial evidence.

We don't NEED dragon-soul-absorption proof. We have proof right here. '''Dragonborn/Dragonblood status is not hereditary. 'Therefore, the Septim Dynasty cannot'' be Dragonborn, the lot of them, because Tiber's status wasn't passed on. Actually, I think eventually the line went on to people who weren't even descended from him! His nephew became Emperor, and following that I would bet good septims (see what I did there?) that not a single one of them was Dragonborn.

"Well seeing as the last non-dragonborn who tried to rekindle the dragonfires with the Amulet of Kings (Varen Aquilarios) broke the covenant in the process, I'd have to say that the whole "only a dragonborn can rekindle the Dragonfires" business is 100% true. It has also already been stated that heredity has nothing to do with the Dragonblood"

Okay, this is nearly incoherent.

Lemme parse it.

So first of all, Varen. Here is the entirety of what is on his page:

"Varen was the crowned Emperor before the events of The Elder Scrolls Online. Believing that only a Dragonborn can rightfully take the Ruby Throne, he formed the Five Companions to find the Amulet of Kings for a ritual to appease Akatosh. Unfortunately, he was tricked by Mannimarco, and the ritual actually weakened the boundaries between Nirn and Oblivion, allowing Molag Bal's followers to conjure the Dark Anchors."

"a ritual"

No mention of specifics. No reason to believe that he actually tried to light the Dragonfires. Hmm.

"tricked by Mannimarco"

Yep. Right there. The reason whatever Varen tried didn't work. Mannimarco sabotaged it.

So why are you blaming it on the fact that Varen wasn't Dragonborn again?

Also, OF COURSE the "only a Septim can light the Dragonfires" is true. It's visibly true. But that doesn't prove that they were Dragonborn. What Varen believed (or, rather, the wiki's word choice of what Varen believed, which could be iffy) essentially is based on ruler-worship - the practice of glorifying one's ruler or past rulers, especially by connecting them to their predecessors closely in media.

I have no idea why you mentioned that heredity had nothing to do with being Dragonborn. It's not at all relevant to the rest of the paragraph. However, by definition, as being Dragonborn is not hereditary, and the Septim ability to light the Dragonfires is hereditary, then the Septims either were not Dragonborn, or their ability to light the Dragonfires was not linked to it.

- WorshipsMeridia