User blog comment:LeDaea/On Attribute removal from Skyrim/@comment-58.69.27.93-20130409100139/@comment-7371906-20130413205721

"The new system attempts to remove the bother, because it was a bother, not to patronize n00bz. My original point was that Skyrim isn't being dumbed down".

What bother spending less than four seconds on picking two attributes when the level statistic screen appears that its explaining at the lower right panel of its interface?... Ok I don't think this is a problem with Noobs its a problem with the degree of basic human common sense I mean the leveling system is easy well for me at least and I only played like what six RPG's in my life. In-game Skyrim is not being dubbed down at all the Dungeons have been given more detail and purpose the landscape has much more variety than its predecessor and the voices have much more variety but statistically the new system has been extremely simplified that most gameplay styles no longer need to exist because if you placed perks on a specific tree you can max the tree out fill it in and all gameplay styles associated into that tree are aromatically Inserted into one character making replaying a character with the same class with a different play style pointless.

"First, Strength was just an example. I can't really talk about something in concept without using concrete examples. All Skills are affected by an Attribute, and my point is that it's arbitrary. Another example: why does a high Willpower improve Alteration, while Intelligence improves Mysticism? Why not the other way around? Why make the distinction"?

Willpower improves Alteration because it is the ability to alter your own or your targets body it is the magic of altering the physical world with the power of your own will by forcing it to change it isn't governed by Intelligence because it would imply that you only know how it changes. Mysticism is governed by Intelligence because it is least understood by the magical community so more or less your increased knowledge in further understanding its fundamentals increases its efficiency more or less the reason for their governing attributes are due to their concept in the lore of the in-game Universe.

"“class” is not a real thing"

In role-playing games the class system is method of arbitrating the capabilities of different game characters a character class aggregates several abilities and aptitudes that your character has, Classes may be considered to represent archetypes, or specific preselected gameplay styles that the player may choose for his character the system that The Elder Scrolls have is not a traditional system of class as it allows you to be able to alter your specializations to your choosing or to adapt to your game style but it is no doubt still their the class you pick in the new system is now base on the perks that you would place in the trees that you pick or the game play style that you made for your specific character.

"Again, I think the difference is small. All of the secondary stats derived from Attributes exist somewhere".

Yeah like clothes and armor instead of the freedom of altering these attributes your self you are forced to rely on the clothes you wear, what blessing you get, the enchantment of your trinket or amulet, or that one perk that has the efficiency of the robe you get at the tutorial hm this is starting to sound like how Word of Warcraft deals with their attributes.

Second, if the difference is so small, why is it important to even have Attributes that affect Skills in the first place?

It isn't my concern Is how these attributes affect you the player in game and how the removal of these attributes dampen or reduce game play styles because on how the new system works and how its sole reliance on Perks and its lack of attributes creates more inconsistencies in game than the amount of inconsistencies it had in the old system. So the incontinence's in the last game was how statistics confused people and not actually affect gameplay in any way except for three attributes ok well in the new system my magicka regenerates at the same rate at the start of the game regardless of being level 55 being a master in over five magical schools all because I am a Nightblade or a SpellSword style character and desire to wear heavy or light armor to protect myself unless I wear these robes that look horrendous on a melee or archer type character and offer no damage resistance making anyone using a high level two handed weapon one shot me, no matter how many times I run or how many times I jump I always run at the same speed or jump at the same height and for some reason being good at sneaking means I can roll in one direction.

"What is the difference between Spellsword A with high Str and low Will, and Spellsword B with high Will and low Str"?

Well the difference is that Spellsword A has a higher Combat proficiency than his Spellsword B counterpart and his low Will implies that he would need his Intelligence to be greater and his endurance to be decent to be able to cast spells other wise he would only be a warrior so ok now in-game this means his weapon of choice would most likely be a heavy weapon like a claymore War-hammer or a war-axe and would be a offensive type play style he relies on the strength of his core melee attacks and has spells as a buff or a support to take out low health enemies to save stamina, to heal, to boast his attack and defense, or to conjure weapons. Spellsword B's low strength would imply a lack in combat proficiency than his Spellsword A counterpart and would need a high endurance stat and a decent intelligence to be able to defend himself in combat but his high will power would imply that he wants spells to be more reliable and to cast them more often implying that he would be a more defensive type character his lack of proficiency in fighting would mean that his probable weapons would be one handed axe sword or a club and a shield for defense he would prefer reflecting spells, shielding spells and absorption spells, he would also prefer to summon creatures to aid him as well.

"You could decide your fighting style in Oblivion, too, but the characters would be even MORE similar to each other, with the only difference being efficiency, since Attributes only have an effect on simple number calculations".

Um no the characters in Oblivion would be vastly more different than Skyrim due to your core Main Specializations that you pick for your class and even then depending on your playstyle the attributes you would progress can alter what your character is efficient in opposed to another character which is proficient in another set of attributes. In Skyrim the proficiency would be based on the perks in the skills that you incorporate to them the problem with this is that you can take these perks and consume the entire tree and fill it up making you not only take the perks in your respective play style it would also take up the perks in another making you as proficient in another playstyle that you didn't pick even more now so with the Legendary skills you can max out the skills you don't need and place them into the sub type proficiency of your respective class and consume all the other gameplay styles of said class especially noticeable for jack of all trades characters and the fact on how attributes don't exist outside of enchantments and well one perk all characters of the same class will be the same because since being proficient in one handed would also make you proficient all swords, axes, daggers, and maces and would also leave you enough perks to be able to fill up the two handed tree entirely and four magic trees making it pointless to play another character unless he would have another playstyle or class entirely making the replay value of Skyrim significantly less than the one of Oblivion due to being able to consume all sub types in your class.

"This goes back to my earlier point. This is not how “endurance” works in the real world. A bodybuilder may be able to withstand a lot of force, but not have the stamina to run a marathon".

I humbly disagree it does because endurance correlates not only your stamina but also your general health. Endurance is related to Sufferance, Stamina, Resilience, Continuity. Sufferance is the capacity to endure pain this would correlate on your health on how long you can stay conscious or alive. Stamina is the strength to resist or withstand illness, fatigue, or hardship which obviously correlates more on how much Stamina you would have. Resilience is the capability of a strained body to recover its size and shape after deformation caused especially by compressive stress this would correlate to your heath regeneration stat that was removed as a component from Endurance in the past games. Continuity which corresponds to your duration or the amount of stamina that you would have so in my quote the ability of an organism to exert itself and remain active for a long period of time, as well as its ability to resist, withstand, recover from, and have immunity to trauma, wounds, or fatigue most of these correlate to what endurance is in the real world and your quote A bodybuilder may be able to withstand a lot of force but this is due to his strength and his muscle mass his strength is the factor that you are talking about here not his endurance which requires training of a different style based on health and stamina.

"This is actually a lot less than most of the things that I wanted to point out but if I did this would be twice as long and wiki wont post it for me so yeah... consider this an abridged version".