Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-8248675-20130606043855/@comment-13446185-20140427200024

Because Tiber is the only one to ever having stated as having this ability. You yourself said that God Talos and General Talos couldn't do this. Neither could ALMSIVI or any of the others.

Aurbis and Aurbis UESP. So either you are wrong or these pages are wrong. Talos and ALMSIVI are not equals to beings like the Underking or Tiber Septim.

They are true gods, they don't live in the same level of existence as the Shezarrine Oversouls. This is why they don't do this.

Talos Stormcrown and Wulfharth would have been able to meet.

Yes and those phases, because they are as you said avatars or Lorkhan, act like Lorkhan. They have the similar characteristics as Lorkhan. The LD hasn't shown any of Lorkhan's characteristics. He has shown similar characteristics to Talos, who is basically Lorkhan.

And I will spimply point to Alessia. She was Dragonblooded but wasn't a true Dragonborn. She was blessed by Akatosh with the dragon blood and Bethesda themselves have stated that she wasn't a dragonborn. Explain that. Explain why only Tiber has even used the thu'um, why non of his descendants have ever used the voice? Why Tiber was the only one formally acknowledged as a Dragonborn by the Greybeards? Explain that. 'And I will spimply point to Alessia. She was Dragonblooded but wasn't a true Dragonborn. She was blessed by Akatosh with the dragon blood and Bethesda themselves have stated that she wasn't a dragonborn. Explain that.'

Just checked the entire TIL archive on Alessia, not one source says this^, it is fanon.

Explain why only Tiber has even used the thu'um, why non of his descendants have ever used the voice?

This one is obvious, you need only look at the Dovahkiin. He/she would have never been discovered if he/she hadn't killed a dragon, take note of the fact that the Dovahkiin was unable to shout until a dragon soul was absorbed. Talos Stormcrown on the other hand was part Wulfharth who already knew the Thu'um.

'Why Tiber was the only one formally acknowledged as a Dragonborn by the Greybeards? Explain that.'

[Talos], Because he used the Thu'um, the Greybeards saw this and called him to their mountain. The same thing happened to the Dovahkiin.

You really think that the Nords worshiped Ysmir despite there not being a Ysmir? No, there must have been a first that made the Nords start worshipping those Nordic Heroes that were granted the title Ysmir. He was named Ysmir because his real name was forgotten. Ysmir is a title, not a name. ''Wulfharth adopts and is adopted by the Nords then. Ysmir the Grey Wind, the Storm of Kyne. But through Lorkhan he lost his national identity.''

-The Arcturian Heresy

Wulfharth was the first Ysmir to be worshiped by the Nords. Though the Nords didn't even know they were worshiping him, as he lost his identity through Lorkhan.

''Ysmir (Dragon of the North): The Nordic aspect of Talos. He withstood the power of the Greybeards' voices long enough to hear their prophecy. Later, many Nords could not look on him without seeing a dragon.''

The second to ever be worshiped as Ysmir is Talos. Ysmir was the name the Nords gave him, it is both a name and a title.

Your point is? That is in the late Second Era, Atmora was gone by that time. That is likely a representation of General Talos, or God Talos. Its not a literal King of Atmora named Talos, since Atmora was a wasteland by that time. And even if it was what is your point? The Last Dragonborn was also given the Stormcrown, meaning he could also be called Talos. So what if some King of tamora was given that name as well. It doesn't make my point any less valid. First of all, the King of Atmora is supposed to be the Giant, hence "Talos farewells the King of Atmora".

Second of all, my point was that Talos wasn't just a title that the Greybeards made up. as the name existed with him in Atmora.

Then what Ysmir does that refer to? Hmm? The Pelinal Ysmir? Then why aren't the other Pelinal incarnations listed? As I've said, all Shezarrines are incarnations of Lorkhan. For this reason an early incarnation of Pelinal could very well have also been an early incarnation of Wulfharth.

Hjalti was Dragonborn because his brother also had dragonblood. Meaning one of their parents likely had Dragonblood. Unless Akatosh blessed them both individually, which is unlikely.

Wulfarth taught Hjalti the way of the voice. Likely in the same manner that the Greybeards taught the LD some words in High Hrogthgar. You know, show him the words then let him absorb the knowledge. I've read the I don't see where you claim that it implies the Hjalti couldn't use the Thu'um, quote please.

I am not denying that. I don't know why you keep brining it up.

It was a ghost that confused him, a ghost that was obviously not in his right mind. He still though that they were in the Second Era fighting the Reachmen. It is perfectly understandable that he could confuse two dragonborns. Also if you truly think that the LD is an avatar of Lorkhan then show some connection that he has with the dead god? The some of the other Shezarrines have obvious connections. Also like I said Martin wasn't a true dragonborn. He didn't have the soul of a dragon like the LD does.

'Hjalti was Dragonborn because his brother also had dragonblood. Meaning one of their parents likely had Dragonblood. Unless Akatosh blessed them both individually, which is unlikely.'

Do you even read the quotes I give you?

''Because of this connection with the Emperors, however, the other significance of the Dragonborn has been obscured and largely forgotten by all but scholars and those of us dedicated to the service of the blessed Talos, Who Was Tiber Septim. Very few realize that being Dragonborn is not a simple matter of heredity - being the blessing of Akatosh Himself''

'Wulfarth taught Hjalti the way of the voice. Likely in the same manner that the Greybeards taught the LD some words in High Hrogthgar. You know, show him the words then let him absorb the knowledge. I've read the I don't see where you claim that it implies the Hjalti couldn't use the Thu'um, quote please.'

''That night a storm came and visited Hjalti's camp. It spoke with him in his tent. At dawn, Hjalti went up to the gates, and the storm followed just above his head. Arrows could not penetrate the winds around him. He shouted down the walls of Old Hrol'dan, and his men poured in.''

-The Arcturian Heresy

The Storm was Wulfharth and he did all the work. I will explain this through other quotes.

''Hjalti uses them both. He needs Cuhlecain in the Colovian Estates, where foreigners are mistrusted. It is obvious why he needs Ysmir.''

-The Arcturian Heresy

He needs the Ysmirs because they actually know the Thu'um.

''This period of levelheaded statesmanship and diplomacy, this sudden silence, heretofore unknown in the roaring tales of Talosian conquest, are explained away later. (The assassination story is embroidered -- now it is popularly Talos' own throat that was cut.)''

-The Arcturian Heresy

The embroidered story is below

''There, the Witchman assassinated the Emperor, caught the Palace on fire, and slit the throat of General Talos. "But from the smoldering ruin he came, one hand to his neck and with Cuhlecain's Crown in the other. The legions wept at the sight. His Northern magic had saved him, but the voice that led them would be more silent from that night on.''

-Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition: Cyrodiil

The quote above this one is eplaining that this^ quote is a lie made to show why Hjalti could not shout after the Battle of Old Hroldan (the real reason being that Hjalti was never able to shout at all).

'It was a ghost that confused him, a ghost that was obviously not in his right mind. He still though that they were in the Second Era fighting the Reachmen. It is perfectly understandable that he could confuse two dragonborns.'

Possibly, but it definitely makes more sense that he would confuse the Dovahkiin for Hjalti do to him/her being a Shezarrine. Especially seeing that Hjalti's Dragonblood is questionable.

'Also if you truly think that the LD is an avatar of Lorkhan then show some connection that he has with the dead god? The some of the other Shezarrines have obvious connections. '

As I've said above, his connections to Talos.

'Also like I said Martin wasn't a true dragonborn. He didn't have the soul of a dragon like the LD does.'

Like I said many times, there is no difference between Dragonblood and Dragonborn. This is fanon.

Oh my friend, you are so wrong. Here is a quote from the Monomyth: "'Aurbis' is used to connote the imperceptible Penumbra, the Gray Center between the IS/IS NOT of Anu and Padomay. It contains the multitude realms of Aetherius and Oblivion, as well as other, less structured forms." Note "between". Also take note of the fact that the concept of IS/IS NOT isn't limited only to Anu/Padomay, it is merely based off of them. IS/IS NOT is reflected through the entire Enantiomorph.

Anuiel-Sithis = IS/IS NOT

Time God-Space God = IS/IS NOT

Auriel/Lorkhan = IS/IS NOT

etc.