Board Thread:Other TES Titles/@comment-67.171.74.199-20140717215229/@comment-9601450-20140928191025

67.171.74.199 wrote: Okay, you're both wrong. And right. To a point.

Magnus is an Et'Ada and he doesn't mess around with Nirn. Lorkhan was an Et'ada, but he is also DEAD. And no, Lorkhan did not create the Daedra. All creation stories that we see in Tamriel point towards Sithis/Padomay and probably Anu having to do with it; the Contributor is right about that part, the popular story is that the Daedra came from the blood of Padomay and the Aedra the blood of Anu in their cosmic struggle.

The Aedra are perfectly capable of influencing Nirn. They have been shown to work through avatars (Daggerfall, Oblivion), shrines and amulets (Skyrim, Oblivion) and the granting of powers and artifacts (Chim el-Adabal and Saint Alessia, Dragonborns, and Kynareth's interaction with the first purely mortal Thu'um users). In common religious belief of the people of Tamriel, it is also thought that the Aedra cause some things to happen that appear perfectly normal and could happen without godly help, while the Daedra tend to work more in what would generally be called "miracles" by a worshipper, which are clearly supernaturarl in origin.

Sithis/Padomay did not create Lorkhan in order to damage the Et'Ada. Lorkhan decided to make Nirn, and sacrifice the power and lives of many of the Et'Ada in the process, all by himself, and indeed you don't see anything of Anu or Padomay in the creation myths after Lorkhan, the Aedra, and the Daedra are born. To be honest, the intersection of the terms Aedric and Anuic, and the terms Daedric and Padomaic, is fascinating, because at their roots they mean very different things but they have come to be synonyms.

Technically a Daedra (or Daedroth, technically, but I use Daedra to avoid confusion) is simply one of the original beings who didn't come to live on Nirn and become one of the ancestors of the elves. But that would technically also extend to the Eight known original Aedra, who remained near Nirn but never colonized it, and the Et'Ada who remain in Aetherius.

Padomaic beings, however, are all the beings who came from Padomay at the beginning - and in practice, all of the Padomaic beings we encounter are Daedra. It can be argued that Meridia and Jyggalag are Anuic beings, but they are most certainly Daedra in the literal sense, as they remain in a godlike state and did not colonize Nirn, and they are clearly not Aedra, who are considered the benevolents gods and operate in very different ways to the Daedra. Both Meridia and Jyggalag reside in Oblivion, and show traits that distinguish them from both the Et'Ada and the Aedra; they are both called Daedric Princes. Let Daedra be Daedra, then, as they seem to be.

And no, the Daedra - or, to be more precise, original beings of Padomaic origin - were not created to oppose the Aedra, not on purpouse. They were, by all accounts, by-products who happened to be sapient and fall into a pattern.

Also, no, Aedra were not from the parts of Sithis/Padomay and Anu that combined, but parts of them did combine, Runes, no doubt about it. That is what we call Lorkhan, who by all accounts comes from both Padomay and Anu, unlike the Daedra (Padomaic) and Aedra (Anuic) who are one or the other. This is why Lorkhan is the trickster and the Prometheus.

And yes, Sheogorath is the cursed version of Jyggalag and not the other way around. You were right about that, Runes.

Magnus's influence certainly does affect Nirn, though that might not be an intentional move on Magnus's part. His energy from the sun causes magicka to exist, and his Staff and Eye are powerful artifacts that affect Nirn.

And finally, the core issue at hand: that it would be better for the game if the helping hand in the game was not a Daedra, since that would ruin the game's scope.

May I direct you to a pretty little title called Morrowind? Where the guiding force of the game is Azura, a Daedric Prince, who ensured the existence of the protagonist in the first place? The game that so many people like to the degree where they will put down any and all later games in favor of their favorite?

Sorry to get snippy, there. I just wanted to put in my two cents.

Hank.j.Wimbleton, if you don't think murdering people and selling your soul and becoming a vampire and trapping people's consciousness in gems is evil enough, I worry for you. Also, I don't understand why there needed to be that many ellipses (...s) in your post there.

The possibility of enslaving or enthralling people is actually a very good idea for evil characters - a thrall spell for vampires, perhaps. I was already considering the possibility of a lore-friendly way to make anybody your follower - bribe them, persuade them, or threaten them, given a rather high Speech skill - and the option where you threaten/force somebody into becoming your follower sounds very like what you suggested. I had the idea originally due to my attempts to flesh out bandits, but it could work just as well for an evil overlord.

And Wikia Contributor who believes there should be no doubt or debate about Byzantine armor...why? Is it because it's historical-inspired? Because let me tell you about how historically-inspired this series is.

First of all, the Dunmer appear to be made out of the Japanese and Jewish peoples, with added ash and slavery for flavor (There could be a questline for underground slave trade in Morrowind - an opportunity for the slavery Hank mentioned? With an option for characters to dismantle or ignore the underground trade as well). Second of all, the Akaviri are so clearly Japanese imports it hurts. Third of all, the Nords and Bretons are not only based off of, but literally named after historical European cultural groups. And fourth of all, the Empire is literally pretty much Rome. I'm not even kidding on this one, everything about it screams Rome.

I am not saying that we add Byzantine armor like "har dee har, here is Byzantine armor, and we will call it that and it will have no explanation and har dee har who cares about lore-friendliness". More like, "here is some armor that we based off of Byzantine armor designs, which we will assign a name and history in world-lore". I mean, who could pass up this armor? It's really, really cool-looking, isn't it? I think it looks sort of Khajiiti. If we gave the Khajiit Byzantine-inspired armor - or, better yet, only one group of the Khajiit, since they aren't a cultural monolith - I can't help but feel it would be a little better.

Or this. Isn't this lovely? I can just see a Khajiit wearing this in my mind's eye.

Ah well.

- WorshipsMeridia Indeed, but of all the games, they made the most contact in Morrowind. They took avatars like Jon Hawker, Ama Nin,and my fave, Wulf.

Don't forget to add cannabalism to the "EVIL EVIL list" :)

Ah, I think it would be appropriate if the southern clans had the Byzantine theme, As Byzantine armor is derived heavily from roman armor, and the southern clans were assimilated the most by Imperial influences. Also perhaps Imperial soldiers around the Elsweyr region use a modified version of it?

When I have the time,  I'll post some concepts for them in the items thread.