User blog comment:Snow X Arrow/What side in the Civil War did you choose?/@comment-5247090-20120708095635

Original Post: http://www.crackingace.com/imperials-or-stormcloaks-skyrim/

One of the biggest debates among gamers recently is the question:

Who should I join? The Empire or the Stormcloaks?

It’s a difficult question. Which shows some amount of genius on Bethesdas part.  Rather than going for the old ‘fight for good or evil’ route that’s become staple for RPGs nowadays, they’ve given us a more realistic conflict where both sides have seemingly equally good reason for going to war. It’s difficult to choose a side because it’s easy to sympathise with both and just as easy to take a dislike to either.

The player character, the Dragonborn, is in between both factions and there comes a point where you decide to choose who to take up arms with. The thing is, neither side seem to have a particularly over riding argument that makes them the obvious choice.

So here, I intend to outline the various reasons you may or may not join either and hopefully help you make up your mind.

Before starting though, I should suggest that as the game is an RPG, you should take note of what your individul character would rather do. If you have been following Atreyu’s Diary, you may know that it took quite a bit of soul searching for him to come to his decision based on his own experiences.

(If you want to skip ahead, he makes his decision at the bottom of this part.)

Your character may have been through things differently so might have a different outlook. You might be playing as a dark elf and automatically decide that the Empire represents your people. Or you may be playing as a Nord, who will be loyal to the Stormcloaks.

On the other hand you might just be after the best equipment, which isn’t really in the spirit of the thing. In which case I believe choose Empire if you want armour, or Stormcloaks for better weapons.

If you’re still not decided, then read on…

BEWARE SPOILERS! =Septim Empire=

Pros
Unity  Strength comes from unity. Infighting weakens any group. If Skyrim could come to a peaceful settlement it could be for the best of all. Unfortunately, this war can only end with blood. In which case, if the Empire is victorious, it would make Skyrim a part of it for good. The unity of a number of nations is ideal for peace and necessary in case of further threats, such as that of the Thalmor.

Lineage of the Dragonborn It is merely speculation and not known for certain, but because the Dragonborn is dragonborn and sometimes referred to as Ysmir, there is a possibility that he/she is of the Septim bloodline and rightful heir of the throne. Should the Empire unite, he/she may find themself as Emperor/Empress.

Chosen Jarls The Jarls are the people chosen by each faction to lead and represent each of the nine Holds of Skyrim. The Jarls should also represent the ideals of their faction. Generally, they are chosen from high standing members of the local community who support them. The choices made are a good reflection of the faction as a whole.

<u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Balgruuf the Greater The Jarl of Whiterun is probably the first Jarl you will encounter. He begins the game as neutral, sympathising with both factions in the war, though when it comes to it he sides with the Empire. His loyalty is to his people and he would rather stay out of the affairs of Skyrim if they are damaging. He is fair minded, though tough, and a respectable leader.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Elisif the Fair  The Jarl of Solitude is the widow of High King Torygg. Some say this alone grants her the right to be High Queen in his place, but the law of the land is that a moot should be held to vote in a replacement. She is a kind hearted woman, with great concern for all the people of Skyrim.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Idgrod Ravencrone An older woman is the Jarl of Morthal. She welcomes a wizard into the community despite the distrust he stirs among its people. With some magical abilities herself, she knows he can be trusted.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Brunwulf Free-Winter Despite all the intolerance towards elves among citizens under Stormcloak leadership, Brunwulf stands up for their rights. He is made Jarl of Windhelm if Ulfric is removed.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Kraldar A good nobleman who believes in rebuilding Winterhold and good relations with the college.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Brina Merilis She becomes the Jarl of Dawnstar under Imperial control. A renowned leader, she is known for her tactical skills and though stern, she can be kind.

Cons
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Septim Dynasty After the death of Martin Septim, the end of the Oblivion Crisis, and the beginning of the Fourth Era, the Septim bloodline no longer rules the Empire. The Septims were themselves a symbol of heroism and honesty. An ideal family to rally behind and rule an Empire. After Martin Septim died, Titus Mede became the new Emperor, succeeded by Titus Mede II by the time of Skyrims setting. The change in the line of succession weakened the Empire, and Mede II was the man responsible for making the agreement with the Thalmor.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">The Thalmor  The Thalmor are the ruling class of the Aldmeri Dominion. They are elven supremacists who seek to end the Empire once and for all and put themselves in its place. Throughout the Fourth Era they have been scheming throughout Tamriel and conquering slowly. It is clear that they intend to do the same in Skyrim. After claiming credit for ending the Oblivion Crisis, over the years they seized control of Summerset Isle from the Empire, overthrew Valenwood and took Elsweyr. Due to other disasters and various infighting, the only loyal countries under Imperial rule at this stage were Cyrodiil, High Rock, Hammerfell and Skyrim. Finally the Dominion attacked Hammerfell and Cyrodiil. Though the Empire managed to fend off the Aldmeri in Cyrodiil, home of the Imperials, there was more to come. The Great War was not one that the Empire could win outright, especially with the growing Aldmeri strength. In desperation the agreement known as the White-Gold Concordat was drawn up. A declaration of peace between the Empire and the Thalmor. This agreement weighed heavily in favour of the Thalmor and left much of the remaining Empire sour. Hammerfell renounced Imperial rule outright, when Emperor Mede offers their lands to the Thalmor as part of the Concordat. They felt betrayed and had no desire to be ruled by the Thalmor. War between thier nation and the Dominion continued until they finally drove them out. Some years later Ulfric Stormcloak begins the rebellion against the Empire in Skyrim based on their agreement with the Thalmor to ban worship of Talos. During the course of Skyrim, you can encounter Thalmor who have captured citizens and torture them for a number of reasons.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">A Greatly Weakened Empire Due to the ongoing conflicts with the Thalmor, the Empire was spread thin with far fewer colonies than there had been in the height of it’s power. Cyrodiil, their home of course was theirs, and now their only foreign land was that of High Rock. Though Skyrim is in the balance, it is in a state of Civil War, and power could tilt either way. In Cyrodiil and Skyrim, the influence of the Thalmor is great. The Thalmor even see the Empire as puppets under their command. The Empire suffered from a poor leader and a lack of strength. They were unable to or at least unwilling to fend off the Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion. They had defeated them in Cyrodiil, but the Emperor had decided to agree to the White-Gold Concordat rather than fight any more. The difference can be seen by Hammerfells continued effort. In the end Hammerfell were victorious without the Empire. Skyrim could well do the same.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Betrayal of Ideals  Part of the White-Gold Condordat was the ban of Talos worship. They believed that a man could not be a Divine and that worshipping him was an insult to the rest of them. The Emperor agreed to this and allows the Thalmor to enforce it in the colonies. Though the Empire itself may not actively enforce this law, and many of its people oppose it, they have allowed the law to be written. The reason that this is particularly bad form on the part of the Empire is that Talos is the divine name given to Tiber Septim, the founder of the original Empire. In disallowing his worship, they betray what they stand for.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">The White-Gold Concordat Little is known about the entire contents of the agreement but what is known is as follows: <p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Essentially, each condition further weakened the Empire and stirred dissent among its people which led to more conflict. The Thalmor could use this to their advantage to divide and conquer.
 * A ban on Talos worship
 * Thalmor right to freely travel through Imperial provinces and enforce the ban.
 * Handing over a large portion of southern Hammerfell to the Aldmeri Dominion.
 * Dispanding the Blades.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Executions  The death penalty may be normal in Tamriel, but the Empire have acted particularly questionably in some cases. Players of course begin the game about to be put on the chopping block at Ulfric Stormcloaks side. Players do not know whether or not they have been captured as Stormcloak soldiers or not, their history up until that point is their own. However, they are informed by the Imperial Officer on duty Hadvar, that their name is not on the execution list. He is willing to let you go believing it to be a mistake, but his commanding officer orders him to go through with it. Essentially, you are put to death for being in the wrong place at the wrong time with no proof that you had done anything. For many players, this reason alone is enough to send them to the Stormcloaks.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Later on arrival at Solitude, you witness a man being executed for the crime of opening a door. After Ulfric had killed High King Torygg, he made his escape. The guard on duty at the city door, Roggvir, opened the gates and let him leave, unaware of what had happened or who Ulfric was. For this he was branded a traitor, blamed with allowing the civil war to begin and sentenced to death. At the execution Roggvir speaks and attempts to remind the crowd of the Nord way. Ulfric had challenged Torygg in single combat and won honourably. This gave him the right to leave unharmed.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Forsworn  The Forsworn are a band of rebels who overthrew Markarth during the Great War between the Empire and the Dominion. The Empire, powerless to do anything against this, allowed Ulfric Stormcloak to take back the city in return for letting them continue to worship Talos. Ulfric was successful, but because of the agreement with the Thalmor, the Jarl was forced to banish Ulfric and his men from the city if they wished to continue their worship. Since then, the Empire has allowed the Forsworn to grow in strength once more and suffer attacks against the innocent regularly.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">General Tullius  Tullius is a symbol of an outsider enforcing his will on the locals. He has been sent from Cyrodiil as a representative of the Empire to restore order. He does not understand the Nord way, neither does he care for their traditions. On a personal note, he is the one that orders your execution alongside Ulfric at Helgen.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">The Silver-Bloods Markarth is rife with corruption. Corruption which is governed by the Silver-Blood family. Residing in Markarth after Ulfric was forced to leave may suggest loyalty to the Empire or at least indifference. Thongvor is the only Silver-Blood whose affiliation is known for sure. He is supportive of the Stormcloaks mainly because they fought against the Forsworn. Jarl Igmund ignores his pleas despite his being a member of the richest family in his city. This may suggest that Thongvor is not particularly close to his brother Thonar, who is in control of the corruption. The city guard are paid off by Thonar to keep his secrets and deal with anyone who may threaten them. Considering Thonars dealings with the Forsworn, it is difficult to believe that he is supportive of the Stormcloaks whether or not his brother is. It is unclear if he is loyal to the Empire either, but as Markarth is a great Imperial city, he should not be allowed to get away with the things that he does.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Chosen Jarls <u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Igmund Igmund was the Jarl of Markarth who forced Ulfric to leave his city when the Thalmor threatened war against them for allowing Talos worship. He allowed the Stormcloaks to be used to serve a purpose and betrayed them when he was threatened himself. He also gives little notice to the threat of dragons, believing his city safely protected by mountains.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Siddgeir The Jarl of Falkreath abuses his position and delegates any work to his Thanes and Steward. Meanwhile he enjoys his undeserved and ill-gotten power and mead.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Maven Black-Briar She becomes Jarl of Riften under Imperial Rule. She is the height of corruption and abuse of power. She manipulates all around her and uses her wealth to destroy anyone who gets in her way. All of Riftens corruption, even under Stormcloak rule was somehow connected to her. =Stormcloaks=

Pros
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Execution of the Dragonborn As mentioned earlier, the Imperials mercilessly meant to kill the player character with no good cause. Enough to put a bitter taste in anyones mouth.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Honour and Patriotism The Stormcloaks represent the Nords who are proud to be Nords. Part of their fight is in response to being ruled by the wicked Thalmor and the corrupt and weak Empire. They would prefer independence and are willing to die for it.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Opposition to the Thalmor and the Forsworn If the Empire are still in opposition to the Thalmor or the Forsworn, they keep their secret well. The Stormcloaks however shout proudly that they have no care for the invaders or those that threaten their way of life. Their war is their intent to remove the Elven oppressors from their home and live their lives the way that they wish. The Redguards of Hammerfell were successful, the Nords of Skyrim could be too.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Ulfric Stormcloak  If anyone knows the evils of the Thalmor, it is him. During the Great War he fought for the Empire but was captured as a prisoner of war. Elenwen of the Thalmor interrogated him and led him to believe that he had given them information that they required to attack the White Gold Tower in Cyrodiil. They allowed him to escape, possibly knowing he would stir trouble against them and cause conflict within the already weak Empire. Ulfric may have been manipulated in this way, but the Thalmor were counting on his sense of honour. Hearing him speak with his second-in-command you learn that he cares for the people of Skyrim and their families. He would rather the war end without bloodshed, but as a warrior he realises it is necessary.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Though many believe Ulfric to have murdered the High King Torygg, the truth is that he faced him honourably in a traditional Nord duel. A word with Torygg would prove this, but of course he is dead.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">The Companions The Companions are renowned as honour bound heroes of Skyrim. They are called upon when citizens need aid and answer calls with pride. They may have a dark secret, but it does not hurt their honour. One of their elders, Vignar Grey-Mane is strongly in support of the Stormcloaks, and the rest lean towards them too.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Lineage of the Dragonborn As mentioned before, it is possible that the Dragonborn is Tiber Septims true heir. Though, whether or not the Dragonborn fights for the Empire, he/she might still be able to claim the throne. Fighting for the Empire may bring the promotion from within, but fighting against the Empire could be a way to overthrow them and take control, thereby taking the title of Emperor/Empress by force and in the meantime restoring the Septim bloodline.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Chosen Jarls <u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Laila Law-Giver The Jarl of Riften believes that Ulfric is purely out for his own power, but is supportive of his other goals. She wants what is best for her people, and though mistaken she believes that she has the Thieves Guild under control. Perhaps, to a point, their weakened state may be something to do with her.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Korir The Jarl of Winterhold rules over what is left of the city after The Great Collapse. He disapproves and is distrusting of the College, but is determined to do what is best for his hold. He wishes to return things to the way they were before the Collapse.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Thongvor Silver-Blood An arrogant man, but determined to rid the Reach of the Forsworn. He does not seem to be involved in the corruption spread by his brother.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Derngeir of Stuhn Deposed from his original position of Jarl of Falkreath and replaced by his nephew when he sided with the Stormcloaks and attempted to out Imperial spies from his city; acting as a good leader should. Imperial corruption was what robbed him of his power.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Sorli the Builder An honest hard-working woman who earns her place as Jarl of Morthal. She even has an Argonian housecarl, dispelling the myth that all Stormcloaks are racist.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;"><u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Vignar Grey-Mane A hero of the Companions becomes Jarl of Whiterun under Stormcloak control. Honour, wisdom, strength, valour and integrity are his values.

Cons
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Racism  The Stormcloaks may be considered racist for some of their views and their patriotism. Elves are confined to the poor area of Windhelm under Ulfrics rule, and Khajit caravans are not allowed to enter the cities. Though it may be true that this is intolerant, it should not be forgotten that they have good reason to be this way. The Nords distrust the elves who to them are representative of the Aldmeri. They distrust the Khajit caravans rightly because they are known to indulge in some cloak and dagger methods. Yet they still allow the Khajit to trade unhindered and though they are segregated, elves and argonians are allowed living space in the cities. You will even find some mer who have proven themselves trustworthy and are welcomed by the local populace. Though the Stormcloaks may speak of a Skyrim for the Nords, there are no problems with any other human race in residence. They have no intention of wiping out these other races, they would just prefer to keep them in check while the country is at war. What is seen as racism, is for the most part patriotism and pride in their people. Much of the rest is caution. This of course does not account for everyone, but this really should not be counted amongst the cons.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Ulfrics Power Lust It has been said that Ulfric Stormcloak is simply seeking to place himself in the throne of the High King of Skyrim. This may or may not be true. Whether or not it is, the people who follow him will not be gaining any such power and are truly fighting for their way of life.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">The Forsworn Despite all the talk of the evils of the Forsworn, it should be noted that they are in fact the indigenous Breton race of Skyrim and are merely fighting for their own place in their homeland.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Ulfrics War Crimes Ulfric has been accused of using some ruthless methods while attempting to free the Reach of the Forsworn. It has been said that he interrogated and killed Nords who did not fight at his side or help him in his struggle against the Breton clan. These accusations were made by an Imperial scholar however and could be propaganda to be used against him. It may have been true that Ulfric killed Nords in his campaign, but perhaps they had been assisting the Forsworn. It is unclear what exactly happened, and quite possible that Ulfric made some errors in judgement.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">Chosen Jarls <u style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:initialinitial;background-repeat:initialinitial;">Skald the Elder The Jarl of Dawnstar does little to help his people while they suffer with nightmares despite a mage being present who is able to solve the problem. =In Conclusion= <p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">It would seem that the Empire is on its way out. It has been weakened by years of war. Of course the ideal would be that the provinces of Tamriel were united, but perhaps the Empire is no longer the way to keep it so. The Empire seems to now be a symbol of oppression to its people. Its weakness forces it to resort to corruption so that it may stay in power. The best chance for peace and possibly a defence against the Aldmeri Dominion would be to allow countries such as Skyrim their independence, yet remain peaceful allies.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">The Stormcloaks are following the lead of the Redguards of Hammerfell and fighting the oppressors. The Empire needs to realise who the real enemy are instead of clinging on to the little influence they have left.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">I would suggest that the answer to the question:

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">‘Who should I join, the Empire or Stormcloaks?’

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">…is clear now. The Stormcloak rebellion.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:24px;">(I take no credit of this but i do support the Stormcloaks!)