Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-25343239-20150319182007/@comment-260563-20180323012818

"A weakened Aldmeri Army that lost half of its forces in Cyrodiil was forced to retreat from Hammerfell but also resulted in Southern Hammerfell being destroyed."

And what does destroying Hammerfell do for the Dominion, exactly? Did they loot its wealth? Did they gain anything permanent? Nope.

"There's nothing weak about being able to differentiate reality from fantasy. If anything trying to use reality as an absolute ruler/gauge to measure a fictional world is truly 'weak'"

The Elder Scrolls universe is still bound by realistic rules despite being a world of gods, demons, and magic. Otherwise, Ulfric Stormcloak would have won control of Skyrim easily since he's fighting on behalf of one of the Nine Divines and he already has a power most people don't even know. Instead, the "weak and dying Empire" managed to catch him easily, and if it hadn't been for a HERALD OF THE APOCALYPSE coming in to wreak some havoc, Ulfric would have lost his head, and the Thalmor's hard work in fanning the flames against the Empire in Skyrim would have died rather easily. And considering that Ulfric attacks Whiterun anyways, the Empire will get Whiterun's soldiers on its side, and according to Balgruuf's brother, who is a seasoned warrior, they'll have enough manpower to sweep the Stormcloaks clean.

"I stated already, everything you cough up are just excuses to justify the Empire's gradual loss of control over its Provinces. First it was Summerset Isles, Morrowind and Black Marsh, then Valenwood and Elsweyr by the end of Great War, Hammerfell..."

That was due to the chaos of the Oblivion Crisis, nothing more. If they weren't hammered by a near-infinite army of demons from another dimension, the Empire would have retained control of those provinces without much problems.

"I stated already, the Aldmeri Dominion/Thalmor did not win every single fight. All those things you talked about that are in the Elder Scrolls world, they are just fights. The overall war, is still leaning in favor of the Thalmor."

In favor of the Thalmor? They lost the majority of their armies in Cyrodiil. They lost more men when they lost Hammerfell, their only military gain in the war that gave them no economic or martial advantage.

"It is indisputable fact that Empire is fighting a civil war in one of its Provinces: Skyrim. Just facts, no arguable points: AKA anything disputable are excluded."

You mean that rebellion the Thalmor worked so hard to create? It did nothing to distract the majority of the Legion's forces, only getting them to recruit more soldiers in Skyrim to do their fighting for them. And that rebellion would have been reduced to nothing if it hadn't been for Alduin saving Ulfric. And fool that he is, Ulfric attacks Whiterun anyways, giving the Empire enough manpower to sweep the Stormcloaks clean without sending forces from Cyrodiil or High Rock to stamp it out. And with Imperial coin and fast human reproductive patterns, the Skyrim under the Empire will recover quickly. Nothing helps countries recover faster than splashing cash all over the place, which the Empire has in spades.

NOTHING is working in favor for the Thalmor aside from the Talos worship ban, which is violated in an almost regular basis by Imperials. Which will obviously get thrown away when the next war starts, anyways.

"It is an indisputable fact that the Empire is losing control of its Provinces over the years after the events of TES IV: Oblivion and its control was continuing to slip as well. To give an unbiased conclusion to AD vs Empire. One have to look at indisputable facts.

It is indisputable that officially, Summerset Isles, Morrowind, Black Marsh, Valenwood and Elsweyr are not part of the Empire anymore."

Again, the Oblivion Crisis. If it wasn't for that, they'd still be ruling Tamriel.

"Hence Empire after Civil War will either be left with 2 Provinces: Cyrodill and High Rock at fighting strength. And possibly a weakened Skyrim. (2 to 2.5 provinces)

Vs AD which is currently = 3 Provinces based on the fact there are nothing concrete to show otherwise!"

Once again, I have already addressed this:

"Just because the Empire owns only 2.5 provinces, doesn't mean its losing. What do the Dominion get from their 4 provinces? Oh, wait, it's down to 3, because a bunch of Redguard yahoos kicked them out. Well, from Valenwood, they're getting jack shit, because as the lore states, they're constantly purging the local populace because they deem the Bosmer racially unfit:

"The Thalmor seem to view the Wood Elves as racially inferior, as it is mentioned that they carry out regular purges."

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Bosmer#Fourth_Era

And considering that the Khajiit constantly leave their lands to go abroad with trading caravans that constantly get shit upon by the lands they visit, it's safe to say that Dominion-controlled Elsweyr isn't a good source of wealth or manpower either. Especially when a good number of its people would rather go to foreign lands where they are hated just to make a buck.

So that leaves us with the Altmer Elves of the Summerset Isles. Who, according to Elder Scrolls lore, do not breed as fast as the humans, and nothing in the lore suggests that the Thalmor reversed that trend. The Altmer lost most of their armies in the war trying to keep Cyrodiil from the Empire. They lost more men in Hammerfell, which eventually led to Hammerfell getting free of them. The thing is, they did give us enough lore on the Altmer elves AND the Dominion. And what lore we got indicated that while the Dominion was able to gain short-term advantages, it was at the cost of long-term sustainability, and as Elder Scrolls lore dictates that men are more populous and breed more often than elves, that means that the races of man can afford to take losses and recover, while the elves can't.

The thing is, you're not judging the Thalmor fairly. You're judging them based on first impressions, which is a very mistaken approach. You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day, it's still a pig. And the way that the Thalmor are acting, with them not giving aid to Khajiit traders, with them slaughtering Bosmeri peoples of Valenwood, it's as Roose Bolton tells his son Ramsay back in Game of Thrones: 'If you acquire a reputation as a mad dog, you will be treated as a mad dog. Taken out back and slaughtered for pig feed.'

While the Empire still has allies in Skyrim and High Rock, and its economy and populace in Cyrodiil is still healthy, the Dominion's main province of the Summerset Isles has, according to Elder Scrolls lore, slow birth rates, and lost most of its army in the last war, and they couldn't even hold on to a forsaken desert filled with guerrillas. While at the same time, they're genociding people on one province, and not caring about the other, to the point where many of the Khajiit would rather get spat upon and jeered at in foreign lands while trading goods rather than stay home and be the Thalmor's pet cats."

Name me ONE REAL ADVANTAGE that the Thalmor have. A real one, not an imagined "Oh, they won the last war and are riding pretty!" thing, because that's what's called PROPAGANDA. Most of what you state are either things that have nothing to do with the Great War, or things that are just plain propaganda. NOTHING is working in favor for the Thalmor. The religious agreement they made with the Empire is regularly violated. They couldn't get Hammerfell through war, so they got it through a treaty, but then they couldn't hold it anyways. That small uprising in Skyrim, started by barbarian renegades? Even without the Dragonborn, Ulfric's attack on Whiterun will ensure that the Imperials have numerical superiority there, not to mention monetary superiority with the wealth of Whiterun, Solitude, and Markarth, which means they will win. And any damage done by the war can be fixed financially thanks to the Empire's coin and trade, as well as the humans' fast birth rate, something which caused the Snow Elves to fear the Nords in the first place.

"Aldmeri Dominion has not won all battles, but still winning overall as the war is leaning in its favor.

I am just respecting your interpretation and opinions by not trying to argue it is wrong like you are rudely attempting to disrespect mine. I am just saying you are using points + self-interpretations to fill the points.

I am merely interpreting through indisputable facts. I did not disregard battle of Red ring and the Aldmeri Dominion's retreat from Hammerfell, they belong under the category of 'AD didn't win every single fight'"

The AD didn't win ANY fight at all. They used subterfuge to gain Valenwood and Elsweyr, and they're doing poorly with both-genociding the people of one and not helping the other, to the point where the Khajiit would rather sign on with trade caravans and get jeered and spat at by foreigners rather than stay home. So technically, the AD still has one province for warfare, considering Elsweyr is poor, and Valenwood's people are getting massacred. They only have Altmer soldiers, many of whom died in the last war, where all the fair fights with the humans, from Cyrodiil to Hammerfell, ended with decisive human victories. Three human provinces fight under the Empire, with plenty of coin and manpower to raise new armies and train/equip them for war, while the Thalmor, being racists, only have soldiers from the Summerset Isles as their military. Last I checked, three vs. one isn't a fair fight, it's a massacre.