Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-38878477-20191022070020

I don't understand why the Dwemer failed, I mean I do and I don't. I mean, there are too answers, to believe by like an ego or something, or to really simply that the whole argument that you aren't real because your body isn't or your world isn't is ridiculous. Humans have figured this one out in real life and a race of philosophers almost certainly realized the whole what if this is all not real thing on their own and figured out the answer in advanced, I mean that's natural for a logical set. This is a whole race, not a just a group of philosophers, so they would have figured out the answer.

In fact, I just wouldn't buy the don't exist argument and not of ignorance, but of realization that argument is ridiculous and a belief and an incorrect interpretation, even if I heard the argument, I myself would be instantly skeptical and would likely have enough to to figure out the answer as I would be in a state of just knowing I exist and the argument is nonsence.

You don't need a body to be real. I would know right away that that type of logic is crap. And find little reason why a race of logical people wouldn't automatically have defenses against bad logic and see bad logic instantly mixed in with the facts of CHIM.

It's ridiculous actually. It's like they are all straw Vulcans.

As a natural logical person, I instantly didn't fail as was learning about CHIM before I was exposed to the answers and the loosing move, because I instantly red flagged the logic about being real and would have realized that everything I saw did not equal this bad logic and it was just an argument for those who aren't great at logic make all the time. People always make bad arguments like the CHIM argument, and people practiced in logic automatically break it down and often have a rebuttal before it's the person is done talking, because that is just life, and I instantly flagged it as a bad argument. I don't think a race like this would have been unprepared. It's Actually kind of absurd beyond belief as I, basically by being logical would have been in a limbo where I would have been able to solve it as I would be in a non zero sum (even if not finished yet) state as I knew for a fact that what I would have seen didn't equal the zero sum part, so I instantly like by instinct was in a state where I would have had time to have thought "I think therefore I am".

Because to zero sum you have to realize you don't exist BECAUSE your body doesn't exist and your world is simulated. For someone logical this is instantly absurd and instantly generates red flags without having to know things. I doubt very, very highly that the dwemer weren't always rebutting bad logic- I mean they scoffed at the Daedra, come on, this bad logic was probably the number one thing the Daedra could not succeed with with the Dwemer and tried many times and always had a logical response back that is the defining characteristic of their race.

So them failing CHIM? It's like saying humans failed the human test because they didn't do something human or couldn't figure out how to do something natural and automatic to humans like lie, or talk. It is very silly. The only way that CHIM could have killed the Dwemer is by them being a straw logic race and having no experience or skill with logic and no understanding of any of it or experience with bad logic clue of philosophy. I hate to break it (actually kind of the opposite, rather), but logical people like me basically accidentally just create philosophy and figure it out or invent it before we are taught it exists. They wouldn't need to be taught philosophy, because people like me do it before we are exposed to it, and it's a whole race, and I'm talking about children automatically inventing philosophy naturally as a result of being abnormally logical- on their own, and in a relative vacuum.

Like a race of democrats. That's what they'd have to be: a race that isn't actually logical.

So a whole crap load of them likely achieved CHIM if this what happened, because failing would be next to impossible for them, as it was basically for me. I like as easily as flinching basically survive before I knew the answer, so a whole a race of people like me would to.

ANd thing is, unlike ego heads, people with mental goals would not get simmered by CHIM. No no no. Because achieving CHIM has absolutely no bearind on swaping out an energy blast beam with chickens so massing in ammount that they create and push out a draggon ball z energy blast thing of chickens., because that is exactly what people do BECAUSE it's not real. I'm sorry, but the Dwemer would likely become full time modders or be absorbed in getting even better. So I'm sorry but what would happen, is like the whole whole race would jog down to the entity dude who helps those achieve states beyond CHIM and get to work like immediately as whole race with a singular goal, or a person would troll the fricken hell out of tamrel to the point it needs new foundations, because that is what people like the Dwemer would do.

I mean, they probably have a chance to get past CHIM, because they didn't do it with ego, and the next state past CHIM is probably even harder than having such arrogants that just believe the problem away that people like vivec and talos would have no chance in oblivion, and like me, they would probably realize that before even thinking about the other enetity (because that is what I did). So they Probably were able to get to work on surpassing CHIM, and the reason they would be interested in that is because, while stripping a daedra down to naked or to just name is great, it's comand prompt, and not codding, and someone like me wouldn't be happy with just command prompt and crap like that, I would want to be able to script, and then program. So since they are a race of people like me, there a good chance that they would actually come back after beyond CHIM with all sorts of coding. In fact, since the Gods hate the results of nrin so much, that is probably what they are working on since they were architects... makaing Nirm not lame.

So yeah, the Dwemer probably made a beeline straight to the entity helping achieve states beyond CHIM and immediately got to work, likely already having ideas about the next set of requirements and working on that before they even got there. In fact, they would likely be working of the third state, as I'm sure egolessness or logic, or knowing, not just believing is a requirement for CHIM+. The only issue is getting an entire race somewhere that can basically spam whatever they need for free, they won't starve and whole mob of dwemer who could make daedric princes nakid would likely be able to thin out to a man and find the next objective.

In fact, the dwemer likely could have easily achieved the second state not long after disappearing, or atleast figured out how.

I know that if I could make something shoot out a redicoulous amount of like chickens, then a whole army would be consumed by an exploding sphear of chickens, because it is trollish and therefore something that shalt be done as shuredly as a ten comandment told directly to moses from god.

The probelm with CHIM is it doesn't surpress and wouldn't people liek me. See I don't care if reality isn't real, if I can think, then I am going to think. If it's not real, fine, okay, so? I am thinking, so logic check yourself. If I'm not real and your telling me i'm not, you think I'm not real, and I am thinking f=something indipendant of you, I don't just think the whole CHIM argument is crap and beleive I'm real, I, unlike Talos or vivic KNOW I am real. There problem is they loose interest in conquering the world because it isn't real, but a thinker doesn't give a crap. If I had a goal to conqur the world, it not not being real doesn't really matter, if my mind needs to develope by conquring the world, it doesn't matter if I am a person in a machine, I am clearly thinking and therefore I am going to continue to think and self improve. People like me, and who are logical, don't need bodies or  real world to be happy. It makes no difference, the second I can think, the only thing that matters is that can do that. NO physical body never stopped thw dwemer from their logic, so it's not going to stop them from their logic. People who logical and philisophical can do that crap in a completely fake world and without their body. You put me in a world that isn't real, and you give me self growth issues and mental tasks, especially learning, or even becoming level 9000++, it not being a real world, unlike talos, or vivic means nothing to people like me. In fact, it would only make people like that more active, because now they don't have to eat and stuff. So it would not make the dwemer lazy, but a single minded race with a sole objective.  