Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-1600847-20161103125247/@comment-993964-20161109182723

YinyangElementofduality wrote: It is also the job of leaders, their generals and bodyguards to predict and keep their leader from falling into a trap like this. When Ulfric killed Torygg and started the Civil war, it is his responsibility to ensure he doesn't fall into an ambush like this or assign a trustworthy bodyguard to see to it that this does not happen. Ulfric failed once. For one who shoulders the entirety of an army and faction intending to rule a country, that is an unforgivable mistake. This is what I meant.

As for your question: Can the Empire be trusted? I reply with questions: If I join the Stormcloaks or Imperials as the Dragonborn, can I be trusted?

Can Ulfric be trusted? Can the Stormcloak Soldier beside you be trusted? Be mindful of how you use that question. Seeing how hapless you use that question, you need to understand the true power of that question. One can destroy the Stormcloaks, the Empire and even the Aldmeri Dominion if the person knows what they're doing.

Ulfric and Tullius are not equal already in this aspect. I would have put Ulfric's assault ability aside but you'll probably say I am being biased.

Assault ability, Ulfric is much stronger than Tullius. Swordsmanship is unclear who is better but Ulfric has the ability to use the Thu'um. Which is a Tactical weapon that can be used as an assault

Should I explain the terms or? Screw this, I'll use as little terms as possible and put them as simplified as possible.

1.Assault = Direct combat ability. Equivalent to a foot soldier in a battalion formation charging at the enemy. Not much to say, Ulfric can use Thu'um as Assault when it is equivalent to Tactical in terms of devastation.

2.Tactical = Extremely potent combat ability that can hit enemies with allies in the vicinity. Typically causing massive damage the enemy and allowing allies to obliterate enemies. A regiment of Longbowmen, in Empire's case; Legion (5000) battlemages firing 5000 fireballs at the enemy or summoning 5000 atronachs to give allies unfair advantage. Fus Ro Dah a Platoon into the ground causing enemy formation to fall makes Thu'um a tactical weapon as well.

3.Strategic = The strongest, have the widest array, reach in its influence, not necessarily able to cause the biggest damage but true strength lies in this category's ability to hit or influence battles or wars outside battlefield range or outside your enemy forces' reach. Orb used by Naarifin to learn the Empire's movements during the Great War is a non direct damage strategic weapon. Eye of Magnus during Mages College is Strategic for obvious reasons.

4.In a War, commanders depending on rank and responsibilities are required to see on different level scale. Ulfric and Tullius are suppose to be seeing at Strategic, Tactical and Assault scale.

The result of which after Helgen was a dialogue between Ulfric and Galmar. Galmar said the Stormcloaks were getting massacred. Which means Ulfric's transition from strategic to tactical to Assault scale is inferior to Tullius that is why Ulfric's men were getting slaughtered.

Tullius and Ulfric are not equal. Tullius is obviously better by 1 step as he outwitted Ulfric twice in a row on this war.

I also put into account the Empire are not trying their best as most of their forces were busy watching the Aldmeri Dominion. Which means Tullius is not getting as much soldiers and resources as he can to the extend that he needs to draft soldiers and resources from Solitude and Imperial controlled Holds.

If Skyrim is an large Europe sized Country, I say give me additional 150 troops and the Stormcloaks are screwed within 1 month. 1. Ok so we both agree that Ulfric is physically more capable than Tullius to fight war.

2. Both the Stormcloaks and the Imperials seem to be on an even playing field as far as numbers and combat capabilities are concerned. Only difference is that the Stormcloaks seem to excel at guerrilla warfare and offense while the Imperials are rigid and excel at defense.

3. You keep using the Patience in War dialogue to justify your demonization of Ulfric's strategic capabilities, but if we analyze the dialogue: Ulfric: "Calm yourself, Galmar. Save it for the battlefield."

Galmar: "Our men are getting massacred out there. Damn Imperials."

Ulfric: "We can't march on Solitude. Not yet. One thing at a time."

Galmar: "We need to move faster. Keep them off balance."

Ulfric: "It's working, Galmar. Our patience has won us friends and allies. And our armies are systematically taking care of the rest." We discover that his plan is working to his advantage. He says that he's gaining allies and new recruits, Skyrim's populace is becoming commited to his cause. Politics is important in war as it is in peace, and a dismissal of it is what led to the pitfalls of the Empire fighting it's own citizens because the Thalmor are channeling their aggression on their own potential allies while whittling their own forces. The tradeoff is a few casualties true, but at least it's a strategic tradeoff to his advantage in the war.

Now contrast that to Tullius' strategy of sending legions of men to attack Winterhold, knowing that they can't survive or take the city. "I'm not sure why Tullius is wasting his time trying to take Winterhold from us. But if he wants to throw his men away, I'll gladly accept that gift." There is no tradeoff and Tullius is just sending men to their deaths. Is that the kind of strategy we can expect from the Empire?

4. Seems to me, an accurate assessment of Ulfric would be him fulfilling and exceeding Tullius in two of criteria while being the same in your third.