Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-71.61.178.23-20130722105712/@comment-9601450-20140406004534

71.61.177.24 wrote: Regarding the Artifact of Arkay: We could make that some kind of undead-smiting thing. An axe, perhaps. There's an underrepresentation of axes in Aedric work.

If you mean including Aetherius, as in going to it, I am going to say right now that that is such a bad idea. In-universe, I mean. One does not simply walk into Aetherius. From what I've heard, the last person to try it caused a massive, confusing spatio-temporal event roughly akin to the events in Doctor Who's "Big Bang Two" season finale. Which, although they seem safe enough in TES, make for a brainf*ck of lore and are probably not beneficial for the people alive at the exact moment the Break takes effect and becomes what was and will be.

However, simply getting visions of Aetherius don't sound horrible. I seem to recall that there was a quest - an optional part of the main quest - where you petition the Divines for their aid. Perhaps if you've favored the Daedra or have been impious, they wouldn't speak to you directly as you pray, but rather trigger a Dreamstride-like gameplay sequence the next time you rest in a sleepable object, as if they had been contemplating the idea of lending such a person their aid even in such dire straits before getting back to you with their eventual agreement. Said sequence would take place in Aetherius. Is there any actual indication of what a generic portion of Aetherius might look like? We know Sovngarde is in it, or at least it's very likely that it is, but I don't know if there's any information on it besides that and I wouldn't really know where to look. Something blue, perhaps? Given the nature of the material Aetherium.

Aaaahhh, player homes!

Any and all types for whatever playstyle one chooses, ideally. Fortresses, yes. Common-sized houses, shacks, manors and mansions, moving caravans, portable and non-portable camps, towers modeled after bandit towers, subterranean research centers or creepy cavernous dungeons, refurbished ruins on high peaks, apartments, treehouses, probably something akin to hobbit holes. I need hobbit-hole-esque player homes, by gum. I need billions of them. Maybe they'll show up in the deserts of Elsweyr - desert creatures are known to dig holes to live in for temperature regulation. Elsweyri hole-dwellings! With distinct differences between jungle, desert, and city architecture. The jungle dwellings strike me as something that would be like the movie Galadhrim dwellings. Why am I suddenly modelling Khajiiti architecture off of the Lord of the Rings? I am not sure whether this is good or bad. As to cities...well, for Torval, I imagine it rather the same way I tend to imagine Middle-Eastern palace complexes/pavilions - very luxurious, very old and new, feeling so steeped in culture you feel like you could cut the idyllic feeling in the air with a knife. The description I'm looking for, alas, lies in a book I don't remember the name or author of, writing on the Middle East. In fact, besides the "luxurious" aspect, this is the feel I want for Elsweyr in general - that is, the cities. But they ought to also have a homey, Skyrim-tavern feel to them. I'm waxing poetic about architectural flavor and vibe. I am getting way too invested in this project. I am so proud of myself in this moment.

Ahem, hem.

Anywho.

Diverse player homes. They will be present.

From the gameplay perspective, my kneejerk reaction to the suggestion that the BoJ take control of an entire province is no. It feels overpowered. But my reason and logic faculties are telling me that it's not that bad. And my storytelling section tells me that it would be a very good ending for the BoJ if they were given the rulership of the newly re-Empire-ated Summerset Isle, just for their lifetime, to keep an eye on things, and if after whatever quests went on went on, they simply settled down in that life and kept stuff in order.

However, for freedom's sake I think there ought to be an option to politely demur this offer, quite simply because some characters will not wish to spend their lives shackled to a station and a province that needs them.

So yes, it ought to be an option - but it'd be for the Summerset Isle, and refusable.

MindOfMadness, it's not precisely lorebreaking, but it's lorebending. You see, when you put something new in the lore, it bends under the weight and the believability count goes down. Adding a whole new faction and retconning much of what's happened lately as their fault...well, I feel like that's not something a fanmade game should really delve into. I don't feel comfortable with creating totally new lore from whole cloth.

Yes, spell crafting. I think we covered that a ways up. Basically, spellcrafting altars would be available to those who join the Synod or College of Whispers, or those who are skilled enough to get past the guild members guarding the altars. Effects and effect transmissions (i.e., stream spells along the lines of Flames, Sparks, Frostbite; AoE spells; ranged/bolt spells; spells cast on self; spells cast on another in the manner of Heal Other; spells like Candlelight, Clairvoyance, etc; these would be the categories I mean by effect transitions) would be choosable. Some effects would not be combineable - anything that does damage and healing to the same entity would be out, for instance. But some effects - invisibility and muffle, conjure [insert conjurable creature here] and heal self, drain magicka on others and equilibrium, heal other and rally - just go together like waffles and syrup. I imagine they would cost either the magicka of both original spells added together, the magicka of the spell with the most magicka, or for spells created with effects that do not occur in playable spells, a magicka amount calculated by the effect (finding its nearest equivalent's required magicka and using that) and the effect transmission (bolt spells are more advanced than stream spells; constant-cast spells like ward and clairvoyance naturally cost magicka per second rather than a total sum; etc). There ought to be a perk on the Enchanting skill tree that makes crafted spells cost less magicka. In fact, there ought to be an entire branch of the Enchanting tree for spellcrafting (and another for stave crafting and one for spell tome writing but I will not go down that path of discussion right now), which has a perk with multiple ranks that make spells you craft progressively stronger (that is, with each perk you get, spells crafted subsequently to the perk's acquisition will benefit from your greater knowledge and be stronger), perhaps the last one with a 5% detraction from magicka cost included; and then perhaps a series of perks that unlock higher levels (as in, Adept, Master, etc) of spell effects for use, and then the magicka cost reduction one - perhaps it would take off 35% or even 40% magicka cost. There probably ought to be crafting specializations, too - "Destruction Spellcrafter", which might branch off into "Fire Spellcrafter", "Frost Spellcrafter", and "Shock Spellcrafter"; "Conjuration Spellcrafter", which might branch off into "Necromantic Spellcrafter", "Atromantic Spellcrafter", and "Daedric Spellcaster"; "Illusion Spellcrafter", which could branch out into "Beastmaster Spellcrafter" (specializing in spells that affect animals and creatures) and "Manipulation Spellcrafter" (specializing in spells that affect people); etc. This would do nicely to add perks to the tree, as I seem to recall somebody saying at some point that the skill trees ought to have a lot more perks.

On the subject of increasing the number of perks.

And on perks in general, for that matter - I have a personal project in which I rearrange perks to make more sense, although I sadly cannot share the images, only a description of the organization.

Alchemy would of course have the cooking branch, which naturally would have the butchery branch. A ranked perk for getting more meat from animals and one for getting more meat from people would show up there. There would also be one for getting more alchemy ingredients from enemies that drop them because they are part of the enemy's body - because that stupid Green Thumb perk is getting fixed roight quick, so it only applies to plants.

Which means that for there to be parallel perks - the...let's call it Scavenger; the Scavenger perk, giving you more creature-based ingredients, and the Green Thumb perk, giving you more plant-based ingredients - it logically follows that there should then be two branches. Except then you get the actual alchemy bit, which has nothing to do with whether you pick plants or animals, and that also has two branches - potions and poisons. And then you have cooking, which would have branches for butchery and for generic cooking. That's 6 branches. And a lot of perks.

This is a good thing.

Then Smithing. Smithing would have parts for armor design, different metal crafting, probably some feature of specialization between heavy armor, light armor, or weapons, a branch for building a la Hearthfire, probably a separate section for jewelery, another for mining (involving a perk such as "Miner's Insight", which gives you extra ore when you mine, and "Jewel Miner", which gives you the possibility to find up to six gems in a precious ore vein and two in a common ore vein), probably one or two little perks for coin forgery, and possibly, in the hardcore mode, a whole branch for ferriers. Because you really, really either need ferrier services or ferrier skills if you are going to deal with a horse - but not every player is going to be ok with dealing with that hassle. So it should be in the hardcore version.

Lockpicking, Pickpocket, Sneak, and Speech really need a lot more perks even to measure up with other Skyrim trees. And naturally rearrangement, because many perks in various trees that have prerequisites do not logically follow from those prerequisites. Allure and Merchant do not make linear sense; you would not get Merchant from Allure. At all. It would do better to branch directly off of Haggling - or, better yet, for Haggling to not be the starting perk for the tree. I actually think Persuasion should be the first, and it could then branch off into two parts: the Convincing/Persuasion branch, Bribery (improved; bribery could also apply to witnesses to crimes, and improve the chances of passing the various Bribe checks that come up in-game) -> Allure and Intimidation (those being the two included subvarieties of persuading somebody, besides the comparatively easy bribery - it's easy to shove gold somebody's way, harder to put on a demeanor to influence their decisions without trying too hard or not hard enough to succeed; and the Mercantile branch, Haggling -> Merchant -> Investor -> Fence and Master Trader (because Fence is a specifically thief-oriented perk, and not everybody will want to take a thief perk when going up the Speech tree).

I am going to stop detailing perk trees before this post becomes long enough to serve as a spear.

To respond to Amperial (weba, by the way!! Glad to see you!), if you meant that Jyggalag should double-cross you at the end in an epic showdown...nahh. However, there should totally be an epic battle of sorts. Perhaps the Thalmor cannot fail to hear about this "Bringer of Order" (that needs to be a title given to the player at some point in the main questline), and percieve them as a serious threat, so they send a great big f*ck-all army - depending on your choices in the main quest, this might be reserve troops left over from your complete annihilation of their other armies - to destroy the last city you went to for the main quest (which would be a specific one, but I have not decided which) and find you. If you are in that city, then congrats, you are already at the epic battle. If not, you are summoned by one of those hard-working couriers of the realm, sent on horse for maximum speed to seek out the BoJ in the last direction they were known to set out as the battle began and it became plain that the number of Aldmeri troops was great big f*ck-all massive. So then the courier offers you his horse, you ride with all haste to the city, and then you are in the massive battle. And then everybody you recruited just kinda "YOOOO OUR DUDE(ETTE) IS HERE! LET'S HELP THEM KICK SOME THALMOR *SS!" So you get random Daedra such as Mazken, Aureals, Winged Twilights, Seekers, Dremora, etc. and even vampires and/or werewolves showing up, depending on what Daedric Princes, if any, you decided to recruit, and some Aedric smiteage going on if you completed the Aedric allegiance quest (I do not know how this would work, but still), and definitely some Knights of Order up in there (and Dyus attacking with a dagger and a Shock spell, bless him). And possibly Paarthy (who makes a comment about feeling the rush of combat for the first time in literally Ages after, as well as something along the lines of reluctantly breaking his vow of peace because the cause is so important), if you did that quest. And this is besides the city dwellers already fighting, and whatever followers you might have, and you can also send the courier to contact various factions to ask them to send aid, although they don't arrive until late in the battle when things are looking bleak, because every epic battle needs its Helm's Deep moment. So you might have a detachment of masked DB assassins, or MT assassins for that matter, randomly appearing, unnoticed in their approach, and backstabbing a whole row of Thalmor. Or a party of Thieves' Guild members, dressed in inconspicuous, normal-looking light armor and not telling anyone who they are or where they came from, wielding daggers, bows, or fists. Or members of whatever mercenary guild you choose, charging in guns blazing. Or a batch of mages who scare the crap out of everyone with sudden ranged spells. Or some Legion, Stormcloak (still a faction, although not politically or militarily active anymore; awaiting a chance to become so again), Aldmeri Rebel, Forsworn, Vigilant or Dawnguard, Mythic Dawn, etc. troops, or some combination of the above. You can contact up to three factions to help in the battle.

So basically there's a fierce, long, bloody battle, and there's a script for which NPCs of the city die and which ones are injured and whatnot, and how many of whatever allies you end up with die, and what they all say afterwards. And eventually Jyggalag steps forward himself and drops some knowledge on the one lone, defiant Thalmor survivor, who surrenders and is shown mercy, and can be seen hanging around Dyus's library as a hopeful acolyte of Jyggalag (and Dyus makes some humorous comments about this; for instance, something like "I'm almost inclined to let him in, but I don't trust him. Dreadfully destructive, the Thalmor; I'm quite frightened what he might do to the books!" I may or may not think that Anthony Head would make the perfect voice for Dyus, internal continuity be damned. Perhaps his nature was rejuvenated as Jyggalag grew in power, so he has a new voice.), and the battle is generally won. Humorous, serious, and other assorted dialogue lines will be heard, as mentioned. There will be signs of a Mazken and an Auriel expressing agreement, so the battle might well be recorded in the lore books of the next game as a miracle. Orcs from the nearest stronghold (it must be a city with a nearby stronghold) may pour in with battle cries if Malacath is recruited, and they will make some comments about how it was a good fight, and some may comment on how the smugly superior demeanor of the soldiers has been silenced. Paarthy's lines have been mentioned. Jyggalag will say something like "You have done well, my Chosen. Beyond even my expectations. That is no meaningless praise, either. I see what will be, and still you have surprised me, although that may be my lesser power reserves. Go forth now, with my final blessing. Live as you will, follow your destiny, and strive to preserve Order." Or something.

This post is now officially a spear of some sort. Ah well. Maybe it's a hunting spear, for hunting good ideas.

- WorshipsMeridia When we first started doing this I got an idea for at the final battle. Here it is.

Elenwen, (yes, she survived, I don't think we can say morphing, or horse catapulting, or whatever glitch way feindish players found to kill her can be considered canon. :D) is fighting enemies in the final battle, behind her, a Anceint looking Nord dressed in Iron armor raises himself to full hieght. Elenwen turns and screams right before the Nord's unrealenting force shout pounds her into the ground.

I'm guessing that everybody knows who the Nord is right?

Just an idea, nothing set in stone.