Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-27007772-20140611204941/@comment-24999978-20140719195203

JillKill87 wrote: ^ personally i didnt care if they were in a weakened state, but i agree when i played a nord it was impossible to see my character join the Legion. Tullius sounded so uncaring and showed very little concern for the Nords i remember him telling his second in command "whats with you nords and your damn honor" and "your damn nordic traditions" and the sound of his voice actor (which i believe was done on purpose) was very "another day, another dollar" type personality.

as i said before we got into a talk about the ES lore of gods (thanks guys that was very informative! but should we move that whole conversation so we dont get off track if someone tries to talk about it again?)

I think the Empire in ES will fall, maybe in the next game or 2, the creators seem to have made it in the 4th era exactly the same as Rome before its fall. Generals who have put down so many rebellions, it really is "another day another dollar" for them, corrupt politicians, weak, barely effective leadrship, bad economy, many peoples leaving the empire (i think its what like just the Bretons, Orcs and Imperials, half the nords now?), losing to other rising powers, and a weak military.

I think people who bash the stormcloaks as "ignorant and racist and stupid" for not staying with the Empire might just be nostalgic seeing as this is the last breathe of the Empire Talos created and they want to see it continue and just refuse to except all empires will eventually fall and new ones will take their place. Look at the Redguards, they did fine and they left the Empire, Morrowind is rebuilding but for the moment things seem like it will go back to normal for them and the Argonians...well they never were technically part of the Empire so its still going along smoothly for them.

Personally I dont think the Dominion ruling Tamriel would be bad, only difference would be the Elves and Khajiit would be in charge instead of the Imperials, only thing that needs to go on their side is the Thalmor imo Initially, yes, Tullius may seem a little cold, but that is hardly an uncommon trait for a man of his position. His role, really, is, first and foremost, to put down the Rebellion, which may be why he appears to have such an unrelenting character. You must remember, too, as a Cyrodiil, some of these odd Nordic traditions must be a bit confusing at first. At the end of the Civil War quest line for the Empire, Tullius says "No, I suspect Skyrim to be my home for many years. Can't say I'll ever get used to the damn cold, or understand these Nords... but I've come to respect them. The harshness of Skyrim has a way of carving a man down to his true self." You see, character progression is often a feature of stories, and the development of Tullius' character is evident. A character cannot do so if they are perfect, and I think Tullius display much more progression than Ulfric does (I've played through both sides of the Civil War quest line, so you know, and Ulfric still appears to be as hard headed as ever).

Comparing events in TES to the real world never works out. Every culture is a mixture of original ideas and influences from a multitude of cultures. It would be rather ignorant of the history of Cyrodiil and the Empire to simply put them down as 'Romans'. Rather than comparing the unique history and context of Tamriel to real life, try looking at it through a Tamrielic lense. Tamriel has always been destined to be united under an Empire, and has fared much better when they have done so. First you had Alessia, blessed and favoured by both the Time and Space God, succeeded by Reman, who also had connections to the Divine (although both of those two figures had deeper, creepier connections to the Aedra and other deities). Finally, we all know of Talos' role in reuniting the continent for a Third time, with the intent to 'make all things right' (his words, not mine). Many concepts have metaphysical connotations in the Aurbis, and the Empire is more than just an Empire, particularly to Talos himself. Of course, the Empire has to fall at some point, but even that would just be a metaphor for the rising influence of the Anuicly aligned Elves and their attempts to progress their own ideology, in confrontation to Talos'.

The Stormcloaks are not criticised for being ignorant, racist and stupid for the sole reason of opposing the Empire. Ignorant and stupid? Yes, but the racism is far more because of their views towards and treatment of other races, rather than the Empire. Again, people do not support the Empire simply for a nostalgia thrill, but because of its metaphysical important in the battle against the Thalmor which is much more than a simple, petty war for territorial gain, but an ideological, spiritual and even divine battle over the course of the universe, one in which the Empire is integral. The Stormcloaks, on the other hand, out of all of the factions, are the only mundane and, really, on the scale of things, insignifcant (excluding their disruption to the greater powers, that is) faction.

Yeah, I suppose a Dominion dominated Tamriel might be favourable, if you don't mind the Thalmor unravelling Creation to return to a primordial, Dawn state of divinity (which, to be fair, you might). In all seriousness, though, the Dominion has probably been far better than the Empire was for Elsweyr, who likely did not understand the needs of the Khajiit nearly as much. Despite their attempts to incorporate Elsweyr into the fold, the Dominion seems to have treated the Khajiit better, and viewed them much higher than the Empire did.