Talk:Hero of Kvatch/Archive 2

This needs a HUGE cleanup, better account for player choice (eg: constantly refers to hero as He and states that the hero enters Kvatch and talks to Martin before closing the gate) and generaly be bettter written. Agent Tasmania 13:22, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

This needs some fixing: " It is uncertain whether the Champion ever played such a big role after the Oblivion Crisis as the Champion replaced Sheogorath after he defeated Jyggalag and became the new God of Madness. It seems that the champion did indeed grow into his station and by the Fourth Era has fully morphed into the new Sheogorath, just as Haskill and Jyggalag foretold."

We don't know at all that's what happens, and the conversation in Skyirm doesn't say this. It's likely something else happens. The Sheogorath in Skyrim mentions being around for hundreds of years. I think saying the Hero of Kvatch became Sheogorath as we see him now is a huge stretch. 24.70.42.140 23:05, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

''' I Played as a chick what is this? '''

Just pointing out that the current incarnation of sheogorath (as of TES 5) is a nordic male? Considering the plethora of races a PC can be and the male/female options of character creation, why would the hero of Kvatch *have* to be a white dude? What purpose would it serve for sheogorath to change gender/race for the sake of "looking the part."

The point I am trying to make is; This assumption that the TES 5 version of Sheogorath is the PC form TES 4. Considering the race and gender of the TES 5 Sheogorath that he is the same incarnation of Sheogorath as in TES 4 as the NPC? Every detail of the character model points to this and the fact that he has been "on holiday" possibly indicative of PC!Sheogorath being a placeholder rather than the "new" daedric prince? Even if this is fannon, so is this assumption of Hero of Kvatch= Sheogorath just as speculative?124.187.96.254 12:57, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

Although we can play as both gender of any races, I'm pretty much sure that Bethesda have their own canon. Close example is Dovahkiin. We can play Dovahkiin as bith gender of any races but most media picture him as Nord male. As far as I observed, Skyrim! Sheogorath have smaller build than usual Nord, which make him more similar to an male Imperial and male Imperial possibly the canon character for Oblivion. Maybe the next question why he look very similar to the old Sheogorath? The answer is pretty simple actually. Hero of Kvatch after he took the name of Sheogorath become manifested by the very daedric prince name he took, turning him into full prince of madness by the body, mind, soul and leaving most of his mortality behind.

Another strong proves that current Sheogorath is indeed Hero pf Kvatch, is that there are certain dialogs tell by Shoeogorath himself that he is present during the end of Oblivion Crisis, witnessed how Martin himself turned into Dragon of Akatosh.Shengar (talk) 12:06, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

The Whole Hero of Kvatch as New Sheogorath Things

Let me get straight to the point. Although, Hero of Kvatch status as a Daedric of Madness aka Sheogorath have yet to be proven by canon sources, the chances of that to be true is pretty high. First, New Sheogorath dare to said that Martin is equal to Pelagius the Mad. By logic, old Sheogorath is impossible to said such thing, he would choose Pelagius as greatest emperor right away. Second, New Sheogorath said that "I'm there all the time" the only person that was present in when Martin turned into Dragon of Akatosh, is only the Hero of Kavtch. Even Chancellor Ocato ask us where Martin was when he entered the Temple. Third, New Sheogorath confessed that he used to be like us in his "Day of Youth". Are you gonna said that Old Sheogorath ever travelling around Tamriel, doing quest and such? If you PLAY both Oblivion and Skyrim, and finished Sheogorath quest in Skyrim You should know right away that the Sheogorath whose talked to us is indeed Hero of Kvatch.

Please, don't get me started "I Played as chick/Orc" things. Do you believed that the Dovahkiin is female Argonian? It just part of the role playing where we can play freely as any races. Lore talking, we must that away and take different approach.Shengar (talk) 13:10, December 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * There are many holes in your theory. First, Daedric Princes have perceptions in Nirn that mortals do not out-rightly detect. This type of perception is almost god-like. The Princes would have known, also, that Martin smashed the Amulet of Kings, invoking Akatosh, because one of them was there. Mehrunes Dagon fought the invocation of Akatosh, lost, and was sent back to Oblivion. Likely his peers heard all about it, including Sheogorath. Thirdly, it is not stated when the events of the Shivering Isles took place. Just because a player of the expansion may chose to complete that questline before the Main Oblivion questline, does not mean that history unfolded that way. It is very possible that the Hero of Kvatch was already the Champion of Cyrodiil before ever becoming involved with Jygglag and Sheogorath. Lastly, Sheogorath has many loyal worshipers. It's possible someone simply told him the story. --— Deyvid Petteys  (bother \   stalk)  16:49, January 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * You've forgotten whom you are talking about. I don't think that it's an accident that the Daedric Prince involved here is Sheogorath, the most off the wall, eccentric, loony whim-indulger in the whole Daedric pantheon. Such a character might be a female Orc during the time of the Shivering Isles, but in the course of two hundred years.... who can tell what s/he might transform his/herself into just for sh*ts and giggles? We know for a fact that the Princes take gender distinctions lightly: "Despite the term "prince" generally meaning a male, Daedric Princes can manifest themselves as either gender... Although some Lords may assume the form of a female, they have no inherent gender, and are all referred to as Princes." I suspect they would be even less likely to find the human idea of "race" or "species" relevant to them. What Sheogorath manifests him/her/itself as at any given time depends entirely on Sheogorath's whim. I think Bethesda's writers planned it that way, so as to be able to accomodate the wide range of possible player choices for gender and race in Oblivion. Sheogorath's utter unpredictability makes it impossible for any contradition to develop in the story line here. Say what you like about some aspects of these games, the writing has always been first-rate, and I think the choice of Sheogorath here is another example of that care. Wunengzi (talk) 05:33, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Too detailed?
This whole page is basically a retelling of the story surrounding the main quest in Oblivion. It doesn't account for other stuff the Hero might have done, and is assumes that certain things were done in a specific way or order. Does all this even need to exist in the first place? It seems like a much shorter, bare-bones account of just the stuff that definitely happened in the quest (minus recounts of dialog, optional quests, and minute details on the way), plus an inclusion of the other significant quests ("may have killed Manninarco and become Archmage, may have purged Cheydinhal Sanctuary and become Listener, etc) would be sufficient. --LeDaea (talk) 05:49, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

A little confused with this piece of trivia
So, I was reading HoK's page and when I get to this piece, here's where my head scratches.

"Unlike the Nerevarine of Morrowind or the Last Dragonborn of Skyrim, the Hero is always depicted explicitly as male. His probable appearance in Skyrim supports this."

1. Considering Sheogorath himself admitted that Daedra are the embodiment of change, even looking at another Daedric Prince, Boethiah going from male in Oblivion to female in Skyrim, would it really matter if the Hero of Kvatch was male or female? They would have ended up taking the form of a crazy old man anyway.

2. Isn't saying "Unlike the Nerevarine of Morrowind or the Last Dragonborn of Skyrim, the Hero is always depicted explicitly as male" kind of contradictory to another piece of trivia found in Neloth's Dragonborn page where it states "He refers to the Nerevarine as a male, even though Nerevarine could have been male or female, much like the Hero of Kvatch or the Dragonborn"?

Just something that's puzzling me. That's all. A-91 (talk) 11:00, February 17, 2014 (UTC)A-91.

Crimes
What sort of crimes can the Hero be convicted of? The few videos I've watched don't go into detail and I don't see an article here about it. If there, can anyone please direct me to it?--Mike Gilbert 00:31, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Citation needed tag?
So what exactly needs to be cited on this article? That tag is pointless if it's not specified what exactly needs citation, especially a long article like this one.  DRAEVAN13 12:07, July 24, 2015 (UTC)