The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot/Log April 2018

These are some of the oldest templates on the wiki and are mostly holdovers from before we knew better. I think so yeah 2) It doesn't hurt to make sure the community knows what's going on for shits and giggles and see if they have any input for it wHaT dO i TyPe
 * 20:11:05: Atvelonis: I'll start us off
 * 20:11:11: The Great Laggi: k
 * 20:11:21: Atvelonis: So my proposal for today is very minor. If you look at the templates and, you'll notice that they each happen to have the variable "gender."
 * 20:11:50: The Crusader of Truth: I'm happy that I already know where this is going.
 * 20:11:57: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 20:12:04: Flightmare: We're writing history.
 * 20:12:06: The Supreme Argonian: Non-binary Daedra
 * 20:12:18: Atvelonis: I'd like to suggest that we remove this variable from both templates. I think this gives readers the false impression that these entities do have genders - this is false. Both Aedra and Daedra are genderless, and only choose to manifest as specific genders to mortals (even then it's not always clear-cut (Hermaeus Mora is a giant blob of spaghetti, for instance). Having the variable there is useless. Readers can tell how we perceive them from the pronouns used in the article or the article image.
 * 20:12:20: The Great Laggi: THIS IS IMPORTANT PEOPLE
 * 20:12:24: The Crusader of Truth: Caps plz
 * 20:12:29: KINMUNE: Hello there, Amulet of Kings!
 * 20:12:31: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 20:12:32: Atvelonis: Hi
 * 20:12:40: The Supreme Argonian: o/
 * 20:12:40: Amulet of Kings: o/
 * 20:12:40: RhodiumOdi: O/
 * 20:12:41: The Great Laggi: i know
 * 20:12:47: RhodiumOdi: Henlo fren
 * 20:12:55: The Great Laggi: o/
 * 20:13:02: The Supreme Argonian: We could put like "gender appearance" or something idk
 * 20:13:06: Atvelonis: Right now we sometimes write "Genderless - manifests as female" or something. Even that I think isn't necessary given the article image.
 * 20:13:16: The Supreme Argonian: Ah
 * 20:13:17: Amulet of Kings: What is the topic?
 * 20:13:19: Atvelonis: If they have a gender-specific form that they manifest in, you can tell visually
 * 20:13:19: The Great Laggi: true
 * 20:13:22: The Crusader of Truth: It would be better to simply remove it, as they have no official gender
 * 20:13:31: Atvelonis: Removing gender variable from aedra/daedra infoboxes @amulet
 * 20:13:33: The Crusader of Truth: Genders in deity and daedric prince temps.
 * 20:13:37: The Crusader of Truth: o h
 * 20:13:37: The Great Laggi: i approve
 * 20:13:44: The Great Laggi: (+)
 * 20:13:44: The Supreme Argonian: Do we vote?
 * 20:13:51: The Supreme Argonian: Yet
 * 20:14:01: The Crusader of Truth: I don't think anyone has any complaints
 * 20:14:04: The Crusader of Truth: It's fairly clear cut
 * 20:14:14: Atvelonis: Vote: "Remove the "gender" variable from the and  infoboxes, as they are not relevant to these entities."
 * 20:14:15: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 20:14:16: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 20:14:17: RhodiumOdi: I think removing it is fine assuming we make it clear why it’s not there. Like, mention in Trivia that Daedra and Andra don’t have genders.
 * 20:14:22: The Great Laggi: (+)
 * 20:14:23: Flightmare: (+)
 * 20:14:24: Atvelonis: 3-0-0
 * 20:14:26: The Supreme Argonian: (+)
 * 20:14:34: The Crusader of Truth: @Everyone  Vote
 * 20:14:35: The Cat Master: (+)
 * 20:14:38: Cörey: (+)
 * 20:14:38: The Crusader of Truth: (+)
 * 20:14:40: Atvelonis: 7-0-0
 * 20:14:46: The Great Laggi: Ok
 * 20:14:48: The Supreme Argonian: It's not Discord Crus
 * 20:14:59: The Crusader of Truth: No, but I pinged everyone who has pings on
 * 20:15:10: RhodiumOdi: (+)
 * 20:15:13: The Supreme Argonian: n o t m e
 * 20:15:15: Atvelonis: 8-0-0
 * 20:15:18: Atvelonis: Turn pings on then
 * 20:15:22: The Great Laggi: the desision has been made
 * 20:15:22: The Supreme Argonian: They are
 * 20:15:28: Amulet of Kings: (-), not that it will make a difference
 * 20:15:34: The Supreme Argonian: Why?
 * 20:15:39: Atvelonis: 8-0-1
 * 20:15:49: Atvelonis: Any other votes?
 * 20:16:08: The Crusader of Truth:  Vote heathens (kappa)
 * 20:16:15: The Crusader of Truth: (plz)
 * 20:16:16: The Supreme Argonian: Why did heathens ping me
 * 20:16:24: The Great Laggi: i think khajit has something to say
 * 20:16:25: The Supreme Argonian: How did you k n o w
 * 20:16:51: The Crusader of Truth: They were here earlier
 * 20:16:51: The Great Laggi: she just needs to know what we are talking about
 * 20:16:57: The Great Laggi: oh
 * 20:17:03: The Supreme Argonian: Is (>) a thing
 * 20:17:04: The Supreme Argonian: Ah
 * 20:17:20: RhodiumOdi: Atv, we good?
 * 20:17:34: The Great Laggi: has the decision been made?
 * 20:17:35: The Crusader of Truth: Atvelonis:
 * 20:17:47: Atvelonis: Yes
 * 20:17:51: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 20:17:58: Atvelonis: So moving on: Crusader's "discussion topic"
 * 20:18:01: Atvelonis: Whatever that means :)
 * 20:18:08: The Great Laggi: (kappa)
 * 20:18:09: The Supreme Argonian: This should be good
 * 20:18:23: The Great Laggi: definitley
 * 20:18:24: The Supreme Argonian: (pacman)
 * 20:18:25: The Crusader of Truth: (kappa)
 * 20:18:29: The Crusader of Truth: ban discussions k thx bye
 * 20:18:30: RhodiumOdi: “Kissing- Is it gay?”
 * 20:18:34: The Crusader of Truth: Yes
 * 20:18:35: The Crusader of Truth: Okay
 * 20:18:38: The Crusader of Truth: Serious face
 * 20:18:39: The Supreme Argonian: 100%
 * 20:18:54: The Supreme Argonian: Can I have the /d instead
 * 20:19:09: RhodiumOdi: No it’s Amulets’
 * 20:19:16: Amulet of Kings: Only mine
 * 20:19:17: The Crusader of Truth: Okay so, probably only like 2 people here know this but I've been trying to work on a template that automatically does ingredients for Morrowind
 * 20:19:28: The Supreme Argonian: It'll always been yours as far as I'm concerned Odi lmao
 * 20:19:43: The Great Laggi: go on
 * 20:19:55: The Crusader of Truth: (Doesn't go on, leaves and never comes back)
 * 20:20:02: The Great Laggi: lol
 * 20:20:09: The Great Laggi: :D
 * 20:20:10: The Crusader of Truth: The template would require more templates on each of the effects pages (Waterwalking etc)
 * 20:20:24: The Crusader of Truth: I mostly just wanted to discuss it for two quick things
 * 20:20:49: The Crusader of Truth: 1) This would be a decent amount of work
 * 20:21:06: Atvelonis: Context: on Morrowind ingredient pages there are these tables that list the effects https://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Anther#Alchemical_effects
 * 20:21:20: The Crusader of Truth: While I'm mentioning it, a huge amount of credit goes to User:Moviesign for helping put the thing together
 * 20:21:30: The Great Laggi: yay
 * 20:21:37: Atvelonis: (Crusader's template would centralize this to some extent)
 * 20:22:03: The Crusader of Truth: The templates would take the effect pages' data and the infoboxes and create more data
 * 20:22:10: KINMUNE: Hello there, TinyClayMan!
 * 20:22:17: TinyClayMan: Greetings everyone
 * 20:22:20: The Crusader of Truth: Note that this /needs/ the effect templates to work, which would be added too
 * 20:22:21: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 20:22:23: The Great Laggi: o/
 * 20:22:25: The Supreme Argonian: /o
 * 20:22:28: Atvelonis: o/
 * 20:22:39: The Supreme Argonian: Of course mine had to be the different one
 * 20:22:55: The Supreme Argonian: o\
 * 20:23:01: RhodiumOdi: How long have you been working on this ?
 * 20:23:01: The Supreme Argonian: Y e s
 * 20:23:19: The Crusader of Truth: A few days before my internet went out last week, and then again starting yesterday
 * 20:23:31: The Crusader of Truth: So like 4 working days but like 2 weeks time total
 * 20:23:31: TinyClayMan: Is there any expert on TESO? Does neutral/friendly npcs' health vary with lvl?
 * 20:23:50: Atvelonis: It's apparently constant
 * 20:23:52: The Supreme Argonian: So basically you want to add a template to every effects page
 * 20:23:58: TinyClayMan: Okay, thanks
 * 20:24:02: The Crusader of Truth: Morrowind effects pages
 * 20:24:04: The Supreme Argonian: Which has something or other to do with ingredients
 * 20:24:04: Stygies VIII: ohhhhh heck I forgot to look here
 * 20:24:06: The Supreme Argonian: Yeah
 * 20:24:07: Stygies VIII: um hello
 * 20:24:09: The Great Laggi: (Kirby)
 * 20:24:12: The Supreme Argonian: o\
 * 20:24:14: KINMUNE: Hello there, Bronkiin!
 * 20:24:15: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 20:24:17: The Supreme Argonian: o\
 * 20:24:17: Stygies VIII: hey
 * 20:24:20: The Great Laggi: (kirby)
 * 20:24:22: Bronkiin: yo
 * 20:24:26: RhodiumOdi: o/
 * 20:24:28: The Great Laggi: o/
 * 20:24:30: The Crusader of Truth: Again, it doesn't hurt to keep you guys in on this because y'all might have ways to make it better
 * 20:24:34: Atvelonis: @Crusader: How exactly does the template draw the table data?
 * 20:24:36: Atvelonis: hi bron
 * 20:24:46: The Crusader of Truth: The data will be put into a template on the effects page
 * 20:24:54: The Crusader of Truth: (More dont worry)
 * 20:24:59: Atvelonis: Effects (Morrowind)?
 * 20:25:10: The Crusader of Truth: No, individual effects such as Water Walking (Morrowind)
 * 20:25:25: The Crusader of Truth: From there, the ingredients page will have a template that will call two things
 * 20:25:42: The Crusader of Truth: 1) The effects listed in the infobo
 * 20:25:43: The Crusader of Truth: x
 * 20:26:04: The Supreme Argonian: I'm confused sorry
 * 20:26:06: The Crusader of Truth: 2) Taking those effects listed, the information on the effects page
 * 20:26:19: The Great Laggi: (Kirby) (kirby) (kirby) (kirby) (kirby) (kirby) (kirby) (kirby) (kirby) (kirby)
 * 20:26:26: The Crusader of Truth: It's a very confusing concept to grasp until you mostly get it, so that's okay
 * 20:26:34: The Great Laggi: and the rest did not work
 * 20:26:38: The Crusader of Truth: Please stop spamming Kirbys, Laggi
 * 20:26:47: The Great Laggi: >:(
 * 20:26:49: Flightmare: There's a maximum of 5 per post.
 * 20:26:50: The Supreme Argonian: Templates are those box things right? Like or whatever it is for a stub
 * 20:26:52: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 20:26:57: The Crusader of Truth: Yes
 * 20:27:11: The Great Laggi: i just like kirby
 * 20:27:12: The Crusader of Truth: In the simplest way I can put it
 * 20:27:16: The Great Laggi: :p
 * 20:27:22: The Supreme Argonian: So you want to add one of those to every Morrowind effects page? What will it do?
 * 20:27:23: The Crusader of Truth: It's a template going on a page to allow another template to work
 * 20:27:28: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 20:27:29: The Supreme Argonian: Uhh okay
 * 20:27:53: The Supreme Argonian: How will that template allow the ones on the effecs pages to work?
 * 20:27:58: The Great Laggi: it acts like a key of sorts to unlock another template
 * 20:27:59: The Great Laggi: ?
 * 20:28:07: The Crusader of Truth: Sort of
 * 20:28:25: The Great Laggi: i got it kinda accurate
 * 20:28:27: The Great Laggi: yay
 * 20:28:33: The Crusader of Truth: It takes the effects pages, and connects to everything sort of like a web
 * 20:28:49: The Great Laggi: ah
 * 20:28:50: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 20:28:53: The Crusader of Truth: Taking the data from the page, and loading the data required from another
 * 20:29:02: The Supreme Argonian: If you've got the time could you explain it on my talkpage? If I can understand it properly I'll try to help
 * 20:29:17: The Supreme Argonian: o/
 * 20:29:33: Atvelonis: I think I see
 * 20:29:40: The Great Laggi: i
 * 20:29:43: The Great Laggi: oh
 * 20:29:49: The Great Laggi: he left
 * 20:29:51: Amulet of Kings: Whops
 * 20:29:56: The Crusader of Truth: Everyone down with it, or see any problems with it? (not voting m8s)
 * 20:29:58: The Supreme Argonian: o/
 * 20:30:07: Atvelonis: So on https://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Anther for instance you can see the four "Alchemical effects" in the infobox
 * 20:30:07: The Great Laggi: i am good with it
 * 20:30:24: The Great Laggi: seems like it would help out a lot
 * 20:30:26: Atvelonis: So this template would draw that infobox data, and then place it in the table under the "Alchemical effects" section
 * 20:30:27: The Supreme Argonian: I don't understand it tbh so I'll stay neutral
 * 20:30:36: The Supreme Argonian: Will it just be a case of adding templates to pages?
 * 20:30:39: The Beautiful Princess Ashley: (-) idk what we're talking about, but i oppose
 * 20:30:41: The Crusader of Truth: Yes
 * 20:30:41: The Supreme Argonian: Because that I can do
 * 20:30:45: Atvelonis: And then the compatible ingredients are listed under that
 * 20:30:51: The Crusader of Truth: And I just said not voting y'all shush
 * 20:30:51: The Supreme Argonian: Ohhhh
 * 20:30:57: The Great Laggi: (+)
 * 20:31:09: The Supreme Argonian: So it's a template that has all the ingredients shown?
 * 20:31:09: The Crusader of Truth: Yes, and it draws information from the effects pages too
 * 20:31:13: Amulet of Kings: But where does the template get the info from?
 * 20:31:21: Atvelonis: That's what I'm not clear on
 * 20:31:21: The Crusader of Truth: Other templates
 * 20:31:29: Atvelonis: How does it get the list of compatible ingredients?
 * 20:31:32: The Supreme Argonian: Wait how does it know which ingredients are for what effect
 * 20:31:33: The Supreme Argonian: Yeah
 * 20:31:33: Atvelonis: To list underneath the 4 big ones
 * 20:31:45: Atvelonis: *effects
 * 20:31:49: The Crusader of Truth: One second
 * 20:31:57: The Crusader of Truth: I completely forgot we have a working example
 * 20:32:05: The Crusader of Truth: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/User:Moviesign/Sandbox
 * 20:32:08: The Supreme Argonian: (clap)
 * 20:32:21: The Supreme Argonian: (very slow clap)
 * 20:32:40: The Crusader of Truth: Thank you for the clapping
 * 20:32:47: The Great Laggi: yay
 * 20:32:59: The Great Laggi: (actual clapping)
 * 20:33:00: Atvelonis: I still don't get where it draws the list of other ingredients from
 * 20:33:32: The Supreme Argonian: Oh no
 * 20:33:46: The Supreme Argonian: Wait what
 * 20:33:46: The Supreme Argonian: ^
 * 20:33:49: The Supreme Argonian: Now it works
 * 20:34:12: The Crusader of Truth: One second
 * 20:34:36: The Crusader of Truth: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/User:Moviesign/IngredientsTable
 * 20:34:49: Atvelonis: I see vaguely on Moviesign's sandbox how they connect - the GetIngredients page and the GetIngredientsList page
 * 20:35:00: Atvelonis: But there seems to be a script involved or something
 * 20:35:03: The Supreme Argonian: Just tell me what to type and I'm happy
 * 20:35:22: The Great Laggi: That crusader is the best
 * 20:35:22: The Crusader of Truth: DPL, which draws the info from the infobox
 * 20:35:30: The Great Laggi: type that
 * 20:35:34: The Crusader of Truth: And from other templates.
 * 20:35:38: Atvelonis: But
 * 20:35:42: Atvelonis: uhh
 * 20:36:07: The Supreme Argonian: If Atv can't grasp this I don't have the slimmest hope rip
 * 20:36:08: Atvelonis: Where are the ingredients lists stored?
 * 20:36:20: The Crusader of Truth: The effects pages
 * 20:36:28: The Crusader of Truth: That's why it has to be on the effects pages
 * 20:36:37: Atvelonis: So it's gathering the data from all the effects pages at once?
 * 20:36:40: Atvelonis: The DPL?
 * 20:36:49: The Supreme Argonian: What's DPL?
 * 20:36:49: The Great Laggi: that is impressive
 * 20:36:58: Atvelonis: DynamicPageList
 * 20:37:11: The Supreme Argonian: (confused)
 * 20:37:31: The Crusader of Truth: Each effect is gathered from the table
 * 20:37:33: The Crusader of Truth: So like
 * 20:37:36: KINMUNE: Hello there, Starkiller131!
 * 20:37:37: The Crusader of Truth: Water walking
 * 20:37:45: The Supreme Argonian: o/
 * 20:37:51: Amulet of Kings: o/
 * 20:37:51: The Crusader of Truth: Red rose has water walking, and the infobox says that
 * 20:38:02: The Beautiful Princess Ashley: i have no idea what's going on, so i'll just abstain from this one
 * 20:38:10: The Crusader of Truth: The template says "Okay, this has water walking. I'll go to that page, and grab that data, and show it here too."
 * 20:38:18: Starkiller131: Oh moot, that explains a lot.
 * 20:38:23: Starkiller131: XD
 * 20:38:25: The Crusader of Truth: Then it'll move on to the next effect.
 * 20:38:28: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 20:38:32: The Supreme Argonian: I'm still confused af
 * 20:38:38: The Great Laggi: o/
 * 20:38:38: Starkiller131: Consensus cat master
 * 20:38:40: Atvelonis: Ohhhhhh
 * 20:38:42: Atvelonis: I get it
 * 20:38:45: The Supreme Argonian: I feel really stupid rn lmao
 * 20:38:48: Atvelonis: I was mixing up my terms
 * 20:38:53: The Crusader of Truth: Can I simply ragequit and cry in a corner
 * 20:38:54: Amulet of Kings: But do you need to give him all the effects first?
 * 20:38:59: Starkiller131: Consensus atvelonis
 * 20:39:00: The Crusader of Truth: Yes
 * 20:39:01: Atvelonis: Ok so uh
 * 20:39:13: Atvelonis: The template first looks at the infobox, and sees what effects an ingredient has
 * 20:39:14: The Crusader of Truth: Without all the effects, the list on the ingredients page doesnt work
 * 20:39:27: The Great Laggi: a dud
 * 20:39:27: Amulet of Kings: I understand it now
 * 20:39:28: Atvelonis: It uses this and puts those 4 effects as the headers in a table
 * 20:39:42: Atvelonis: And then it goes onto those pages, and looks at their individual ingredient lists
 * 20:39:52: Atvelonis: i.e. for each effect, which ingredients can be used to make that effect happen
 * 20:39:55: Atvelonis: And then adds those to a table
 * 20:39:57: Atvelonis: I like it
 * 20:40:00: The Crusader of Truth: Y E S
 * 20:40:02: The Great Laggi: me too
 * 20:40:03: Atvelonis: We just need to align it vertically
 * 20:40:06: Atvelonis: The final table
 * 20:40:20: The Crusader of Truth: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/User:Moviesign/Sandbox
 * 20:40:25: The Crusader of Truth: Table at the bottom?
 * 20:40:28: Atvelonis: Yeah
 * 20:40:30: The Supreme Argonian: So does each ingredient have 4 effects? I haven't played much of Morrowind
 * 20:40:32: The Crusader of Truth: I thought it looked good to me :/
 * 20:40:41: Atvelonis: They should start at the same point vertically
 * 20:40:44: The Great Laggi: it is good
 * 20:40:48: The Crusader of Truth: No, not all ingredients have 4 effects
 * 20:40:48: Atvelonis: Instead of being centered vertically
 * 20:40:58: The Crusader of Truth: But the differences (one has 3, for example) are accounted for.
 * 20:41:26: The Crusader of Truth: Oh I gotcha Atv I was thinking something /way/ different and was lost
 * 20:41:31: The Supreme Argonian: It's very complicated but I think I'm just about grasping it
 * 20:41:32: The Great Laggi: lol
 * 20:41:41: Atvelonis: |valign="top"|
 * 20:41:43: The Supreme Argonian: So can someone tell me exactly what to type please lol
 * 20:41:53: The Crusader of Truth: I mean
 * 20:42:13: The Supreme Argonian: Is it just what's on that Moviestar page
 * 20:42:17: The Crusader of Truth: I'd like to point out to you guys it took me an hour to grasp this concept too (although the convo was way slower)
 * 20:42:18: The Crusader of Truth: So
 * 20:42:25: The Supreme Argonian: Moviesign*
 * 20:42:35: The Crusader of Truth: It's not like you guys are super slow and I'm a genius or anything. It is an extremely insane concept
 * 20:42:37: The Great Laggi: it took me a minute
 * 20:42:46: Atvelonis: Curious: on https://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Anther the table there has an asterisk for ingredients that have "Multiple effects in common"
 * 20:42:58: Atvelonis: Will this template keep that data as well? Or no?
 * 20:43:14: Atvelonis: It's not necessary to readers' understanding, just curious
 * 20:43:31: The Crusader of Truth: I don't believe there is a way to.
 * 20:43:46: The Crusader of Truth: I can ask, however. I also didn't have any clue any of this existed before, so it could be possible.
 * 20:44:07: The Great Laggi: my reaction to this:
 * 20:44:11: The Great Laggi: FUTURE
 * 20:44:17: The Supreme Argonian: Someone just tell me what to type please
 * 20:44:17: The Great Laggi: FUTURE
 * 20:44:24: The Beautiful Princess Ashley: caps
 * 20:44:28: The Supreme Argonian: Stop s p a m m i n g
 * 20:44:29: The Great Laggi: repeat 5 times
 * 20:44:54: The Crusader of Truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk7IDVzLiQo
 * 20:44:56: KINMUNE: Future! (Spongebob)
 * 20:45:01: The Supreme Argonian: pLeAsE
 * 20:45:02: The Great Laggi: yeah
 * 20:45:12: The Beautiful Princess Ashley: don't spam
 * 20:45:21: The Supreme Argonian: Me?
 * 20:45:22: Atvelonis: I was also wondering if there were some way to use to make this work but I don't think there is
 * 20:45:30: The Crusader of Truth: @Argonian I'd rather have someone more experienced with templates working on this
 * 20:45:32: Atvelonis: e.g. https://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Daggers_(Skyrim)?action=edit and https://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons_(Skyrim)?action=edit
 * 20:45:35: The Supreme Argonian: Rip
 * 20:45:48: The Great Laggi: i was actually thinking
 * 20:45:57: The Supreme Argonian: So I'm guessing it's not just –
 * 20:46:05: The Great Laggi: maybe we can use this for other pages
 * 20:46:16: The Supreme Argonian: Okie I gtg bye
 * 20:46:18: Amulet of Kings: That is for including them on articles
 * 20:46:19: The Crusader of Truth: @Atv why would you want onlyinclude?
 * 20:46:21: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 20:46:35: The Supreme Argonian: Actually I'll just go AFK
 * 20:46:54: Atvelonis: Look at the pages I linked, the content on Daggers (Skyrim) within is transcluded on Weapons (Skyrim)
 * 20:47:08: Atvelonis: https://i.gyazo.com/f3c2261a544ff62ec20c86a4c2b352b5.png
 * 20:47:21: Atvelonis: So the same tables appear on both but the data is stored on Daggers (Skyrim)
 * 20:47:22: The Crusader of Truth: Oh I didn't think about the second page, I thought you intended them separate
 * 20:47:27: The Crusader of Truth: My bad :D
 * 20:47:45: Atvelonis: I think this wouldn't work because you can only do it once per page (?)
 * 20:47:45: Flightmare: Includes won't get this done afaik. DPL is quite strong. This wiki makes really good use of it: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker
 * 20:47:56: Amulet of Kings: @The Supreme Argonian this is a template page: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Stub?action=edit
 * 20:48:14: The Crusader of Truth: There's a very simple way to do this much more efficiently. e.g. Flightmare's link
 * 20:48:14: Flightmare: DPL is heavily cached though, otherwise it would be really slow.
 * 20:48:34: Flightmare: The second best alternative would be with Lua.
 * 20:48:42: The Crusader of Truth: Fallout also uses a system to share data, but I don't remember what
 * 20:48:46: Flightmare: But I'm not sure how good Lua is in fetching actual content.
 * 20:48:50: Amulet of Kings: Does that mean loading times would increase?
 * 20:48:58: The Great Laggi: :O
 * 20:49:06: The Great Laggi: i hope not
 * 20:49:08: Flightmare: Yes they would. But with good caching rules it won't be bad.
 * 20:49:27: Flightmare: The caches do need to be refreshed every once in a while though.
 * 20:49:30: Flightmare: And that takes time.
 * 20:49:43: The Great Laggi: oh
 * 20:50:02: The Great Laggi: *starts internally screaming in agony*
 * 20:50:04: The Crusader of Truth: I would guess it would add maybe .1-.2 of a second at most?
 * 20:50:06: Atvelonis: I think this is worth whatever negligible performance hit we get because it basically halves the number of ingredient lists we have to maintain
 * 20:50:14: The Crusader of Truth: ^
 * 20:50:30: The Crusader of Truth: There's also other extremely practical uses for this
 * 20:50:34: The Crusader of Truth: Characters pages
 * 20:50:41: The Great Laggi: *internal screaming intensifies*
 * 20:50:50: Flightmare: The performance hit with DPL is a lot bigger I'm affraid. But as long as you use a strong cache there isn't any issue.
 * 20:51:03: The Crusader of Truth: oof
 * 20:51:07: Flightmare: Just keep in mind the cache needs to be kicked every now and then
 * 20:51:08: The Great Laggi: ded
 * 20:51:11: Flightmare: by a user or script.
 * 20:51:40: The Crusader of Truth: I've mentioned it in Discord, but if we do character pages like this, all the data would be synced, which basically cuts hours off of work, and allows us to only have to change one variable whereas people forget to update both
 * 20:51:46: Flightmare: At least after some changes. Though Morrowind isn't likely to receive any balance patches anytime soon.
 * 20:51:53: The Crusader of Truth: I do have one question though for you Flightmare
 * 20:52:19: The Crusader of Truth: Is there a way to get DPL to call all of the infoboxes in a category at one time?
 * 20:52:36: The Crusader of Truth: Like, for example
 * 20:52:37: The Crusader of Truth: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/User:The_Crusader_of_Truth/Skyrim
 * 20:52:40: Flightmare: I've tried this before to make auto-updated list of all weapon overview pages. But I failed.
 * 20:52:43: Flightmare: My DPL sucks.
 * 20:52:50: Flightmare: Though the GW2 example shows it is possible.
 * 20:53:05: Flightmare: That being said they might user a newer version of the DPL plugin.
 * 20:53:05: The Crusader of Truth: If it's possible, I'll look into it then.
 * 20:53:12: Atvelonis: How would we script the cache kicking?
 * 20:53:31: The Crusader of Truth: Wikia should do it automatically, correct?
 * 20:53:33: Flightmare: Have some timed HTTP user agent (e.g. browser) load the page
 * 20:53:36: Flightmare: every day
 * 20:53:38: Flightmare: and then close it.
 * 20:53:59: Flightmare: Usually it is some user that invokes the cache reset
 * 20:54:11: Atvelonis: Could KINMUNE do it?
 * 20:55:11: Flightmare: Probably
 * 20:55:14: Flightmare: But the cache isn't our issue now.
 * 20:55:22: Flightmare: btw GW2 has DPL3.0, we use 2.3
 * 20:55:48: The Crusader of Truth: Yee that is true
 * 20:55:56: Flightmare: They're different plugins too.
 * 20:56:01: The Great Laggi: then what would the main issue be
 * 20:56:04: The Crusader of Truth: Is there a way to get Wikia to update this wiki to update to 3.0 via S:C or would they not allow that?
 * 20:56:24: The Crusader of Truth: It would smarter for us to update this stuff /before/ we rely on it for anything, after all
 * 20:56:25: Flightmare: No, plugins have extremely low priority.
 * 20:56:33: Flightmare: I've requested updates many times before.
 * 20:57:00: The Crusader of Truth: Would it have to be site wide for them to update it?
 * 20:57:07: The Crusader of Truth: I figured they could simply do it on this wiki
 * 20:57:14: Flightmare: It'd be site-wide.
 * 20:57:23: The Crusader of Truth: Heck, I see why that's a no then
 * 20:57:41: The Crusader of Truth: Alright so basically
 * 20:57:51: Flightmare: Wikis run in clusters, so it's multiple per server.
 * 20:57:52: The Great Laggi: yes or no
 * 20:58:29: The Crusader of Truth: I guess I keep looking to see what I can do about getting a synced DPL Morrowind ingredient table running, and we go from there with KINMUNE refreshing the cache?
 * 20:58:45: The Crusader of Truth: Afterwards, we can look into seeing the same syncing process for character pages?
 * 20:59:19: The Crusader of Truth: That's basically my plan if anyone doesn't have any better ideas
 * 20:59:31: Flightmare: Refreshing the cache won't be needed very often.
 * 20:59:48: Flightmare: It's better to just refresh it after any use has made a number of changes.
 * 20:59:48: The Crusader of Truth: Yea, once the data gets added it should mostly be good
 * 21:00:13: Atvelonis: Ok great
 * 21:00:17: The Crusader of Truth: To make sure I have it right, simply opening and null editing the page should force the server to reload the cache right?
 * 21:00:20: KINMUNE: Hello there, Emperor Jarjarkine!
 * 21:00:23: Atvelonis: Heya Jarjar
 * 21:00:24: The Crusader of Truth: o/
 * 21:00:28: The Great Laggi: o/
 * 21:00:29: The Beautiful Princess Ashley: hi
 * 21:00:32: Atvelonis: We're just finishing up the moot :P
 * 21:00:41: Emperor Jarjarkine: Heya daamn so many peeps
 * 21:00:45: Emperor Jarjarkine: *peoples !
 * 21:02:06: The Great Laggi: a bit of awkward silence later
 * 21:02:42: Emperor Jarjarkine: Afk
 * 21:03:21: Atvelonis: Well that was all we had planned
 * 21:03:29: Atvelonis: Are there any other last-minute topics?
 * 21:03:37: Atvelonis: Crus do your @everyone witchcraft
 * 21:03:54: The Crusader of Truth: Ska-doosh
 * 21:04:17: The Beautiful Princess Ashley: i want to propose promoting me to admin and permabanning all other staff
 * 21:04:22: The Crusader of Truth: (+)
 * 21:04:23: Flightmare: (+)
 * 21:04:25: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:04:28: The Great Laggi: (+)
 * 21:04:44: The Crusader of Truth: /me resigns the second before the vote is complete
 * 21:04:48: Atvelonis: lol
 * 21:04:57: The Great Laggi: hahaha
 * 21:05:03: Flightmare: I'll go ahead and close the wiki.
 * 21:05:12: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 21:05:16: Atvelonis: So if there are no more topics, the moot is over
 * 21:05:23: Amulet of Kings: Aren't we going to vote on Crus' topic?
 * 21:05:30: The Crusader of Truth: Now, for the more important vote that we do every month, can I be admin (kappa)
 * 21:05:32: Atvelonis: Well it was more of a discussion topic since he was already planning on it
 * 21:05:40: Amulet of Kings: Ok
 * 21:05:40: The Crusader of Truth: ^
 * 21:05:42: Atvelonis: Just getting the word out
 * 21:05:43: The Great Laggi: wow lo
 * 21:05:47: The Great Laggi: l
 * 21:06:00: The Crusader of Truth: I'd rather keep everyone informed since it's a semi big thing
 * 21:06:10: The Great Laggi: yeah
 * 21:06:14: The Crusader of Truth: Bigger than a lot that we've had planned in a while
 * 21:06:27: Amulet of Kings: a semi big bang
 * 21:06:47: The Crusader of Truth: Not to mention the stuff that might end up springing off of it, this could be big news
 * 21:06:47: The Great Laggi: a semi explosion
 * 21:07:09: The Great Laggi: true
 * 21:07:17: The Crusader of Truth: @Atv Want me to do the update right?
 * 21:07:20: The Great Laggi: this could change
 * 21:07:26: The Great Laggi: everything
 * 21:07:27: The Crusader of Truth: And of course, I got the moot logs @8
 * 21:07:33: Atvelonis: Yeah
 * 21:07:40: Atvelonis: I'll bot the stuff
 * 21:07:51: The Crusader of Truth: Darn I was gonna call that too
 * 21:07:57: The Crusader of Truth: It was your topic tho so fair
 * 21:08:19: The Great Laggi: we are done here?
 * 21:08:21: The Crusader of Truth: I'll get to work on the update at 7ish, until then, more bot stuff and crusader kings
 * 21:08:22: The Crusader of Truth: Yes