User blog comment:LeDaea/On Attribute removal from Skyrim/@comment-58.69.27.93-20130409100139/@comment-3217145-20130409120413

Agreed that removal of derived stats like running speed and MP regen rate reduces character depth. Disagreed that "pure" classes are disadvantaged all that much. I play a pure Archer, with 100 Archery and Stealth, 30 One-handed, 40 Light Armor (since I rarely get hit), and no magic or Alchemy aptitude. I'm level 55 and probably won't get any higher, since I've leveled what I want to use as high as I want to level it. I have all the perks I need. I have no difficulty playing at higher difficulties using this build, even if my sneak attack misses and 3 thugs melee charge me. (Also, with the recent patch, I could just reset Archery or some other often-used skill to keep leveling up without having to grind things I don't want to.)

I also agree that it's not ideal to have to max everything to reach the highest level. However, you shouldn't have to reach that level anyway. Deciding how to distribute your limited perk points is part of the depth of Skyrim's system, which previous games didn't have. If you want to go scorched earth and pump everything to the max, the game gives you a reward for that (more perks). But if you want to just focus on a more limited set of stuff, the game is also acceptably balanced to be played with a more limited perk pool. I know it breaks my own immersion if my character is better than anyone at HALF THE THINGS IN THE WORLD, let alone all of the things.


 * "That is because the stat of agility does not correspond to the running speed that your character has it corresponds to the flexibility of your character, his bodily movement, his reflexes, and reaction time to attacks all does not really on the strength of your body but do you know what stat you really were talking about its speed."

Actually no, I was talking about exercise. I guess I chose bad examples (except for troll-bonking), but my point was that the old attribute system allowed you to just arbitrarily decide what you wanted to increase. Replace Agility with Charisma, and replace "mountain climbing" with "bear wrestling." It wouldn't make any sense if you killified some wolves, then suddenly your lips become fuller and your eyes brighter and you're more likeable, yet punching out bears has no effect on your Strength until you want it to. Attribute increases were related to how you played your character, but you could still just choose them (and this is more than most games do; I remember in DAO playing a mage and pumping Constitution for extra HP in preparation for becoming a Blood Mage, even though I never got hit and there was no logical in-universe reason for me to be getting super beefy). Using skills related to an attribute gave you a bonus to leveling it, but if you had a high potential bonus for a stat and didn't choose it, you were just farting it away. It didn't allow natural development based on the character's actions. It relied on these detailed numbers that your character shouldn't even know about, let alone have detailed control over.

Skyrim's system is just a different approach, trying to make the process a natural and logical progression. You get better at the stuff you do constantly. You don't miraculously get better at something because you thought, "I bet it would be more tactically efficient to increase my IQ than the levels of calcium in my bones."


 * "They have improved the game tremendously in-game but crippled the stat or class type gameplay."

I think this is exactly what they meant to do. They're trying to make it more immersive. What was Joan of Arc's "class?" What were Miyamoto Musashi's "stats?" These aren't real-world things. Stats are just a different flavor of limitation. Katanas are made to slice and stab efficiently, they don't run on strength; a big dumb guy can use a katana, but he'll do less damage than a smarter girl with some patience and proper control. No archer ever got better at staying perfectly still and aiming an arrow by doing parkour. A wiry fencer with masterful parrying and blocking skills will endure less of a beating than a weight lifter who can't sprint 100 meters. Skyrim's system isn't complete - you make a very good point about some of the things left out of it - but I disagree that it's necessarily "dumber." That's my real point here. It's just a different approach.


 * "This isn't the case of just the Elder scrolls series this is the case for most established RPG's this is just how these types of RPG's work and have worked for over nineteen years since the series began."

Saying that something's older doesn't make it better. I would question how well it really did "work" personally, given the examples I mentioned elsewhere on this page. Abandoning long-held beliefs and trying something new is the only way real progress gets made. Thesis and Antithesis. Hopefully the next TES game will combine Skyrim's intuitive leveling philosophy with previous games' derived stats to make characters more deep and unique. I want you to have fun. I want to have fun. Bethesda wants both of us to have fun (but be $60 poorer doing it). I believe this is their goal. I don't think it has anything to do with pandering to anyone.