The Elder Scrolls Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive 3

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Info from other sites
Are we allowed to directly take info from other sites, even if it's noted from which site? Some of the race articles (particularly the ancient races) are directly quoted from either Wikipedia or UESP. Obviously, if we have permission, then it's okay. UESP doesn't have a policy that I know of, and Wikipedia is under a different license or something. I think summarizing it in our own terms would be okay, and then making a note of where the info is from is okay, but not directly copying word-for-word (e.g. Aedra). Thoughts? -- TheSpectator 13:48, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * After some discussion here and reading Wikipedia's policy on copyright and verbatim copying, I think it's alright. -- TheSpectator 14:22, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * UESP has a proposed a copyright policy similar to yours, and in fact, it's also a creative commons license. We're planning to put the content of our site under the Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 Canada License. At this point, UESP is still copyrighted by David Humphrey (the webmaster of UESP), and you will need permission from him before hosting any content on this site. If Daveh agrees to the proposed policy, then all you will need to do is give attribution to the UESPWiki and make it known that the derivative work is under the Attribution-ShareAlike license. --Aristeo 12:41, 2 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Ahh okay, I'll look into that. However, I noticed that the some of the information is on both UESP and Wikipedia, such as the Aedra articles, so where did the info originate? (In contrast, I noticed that the Dwemer article originated at Wikipedia). I tend to believe most of the info is originally from UESP, seeing as UESP is the source for most Elder Scrolls info. -- TheSpectator 22:16, 2 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I looked into the Aedra article you pointed out to me, and it was a violation of the verbatim copying policy of Wikipedia, and has been tagged for deletion. If you know of any others, please let me know. --Aristeo 11:17, 4 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Hmm, I guess I misread the verbatim policy at Wikipedia. Is their license compatible with Creative Commons? -- TheSpectator 12:04, 4 July 2006 (CDT)


 * If you use any of their content as a derivative work, you have to make a note that the content is licensed under their license. This would mean that the content would be under both the by-nc-sa and GFDL license, with favor towards the GFDL. From my understanding, verbatim copies have to be read-only and unaltered, and derivative works have to link back to the proper article. --Aristeo 20:09, 4 July 2006 (CDT)


 * The way I understand it is that you can't modify something and then claim it the same way you would as if copied verbatim. Once an article is modified new rules apply that can be found here. So really all you need to do on your UESP Aedra page is link back to the Wikipedia article and you should be good to go. If UESP has any copyright policy then it should appear in the footer found on all wiki pages (thus appearing in every page). As it is right now there technically is no copyright as doesn't appear anywhere on the site, though as you mentioned you do have a proposal for a Creative Commons (there's a note about that below). Also if you do put everything under a general copyright (or really any copyright other than GFDL) then "unless noted otherwise" should be added. On Wikipedia copied articles a small link (in addition to the link to the wikipedia article) saying something like "content licensed under GFDL" with GFDL linking to a page on your site carrying the text:
 * "Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant Sections, with no Front-Cover Texts, and with no Back-Cover Texts."


 * I'm no lawyer but I believe that covers all the bases and we here at Obliviowiki should probably start doing that as well. Also the license you selected, Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 Canada License only applies in Canada. I'd suggest going for Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License which is international. I hope I don't sound like a nit-pick or a know it all but with stuff like this I'm really worried that I'll be misconstrued. --dpotts 16:04, 5 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Ah, okay. Heh, I know little about legal stuff. For our website, it's mainly most of the race articles that have been copied verbatim, so they need to be tagged. Should we make an info box at the top/bottom of the page to state that it's from Wikipedia/UESP? -- TheSpectator 19:12, 5 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I doubt it really matters, just so long as we express that the article is GFDL and not our normal Creative Commons copyright if it's from Wikipedia since it could be edited at any time. If UESP adopts a Creative Commons copyright then all we really need is a link back to the article on their site. There might be a little action necessary depending on the terms of their copyright.


 * Since most of our stuff seems to be UESP, then probably just a link an the top will do for now. However if they adopt a share-alike CC copyright with different stipulations then ours, those articles need to be under that license. --dpotts 19:54, 5 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Right now, all we're asking for is a link back to the UESP article. --Aristeo 23:01, 5 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Last time I checked, they do that already. I briefly checked the race articles and the one's that are taken verbatim from either Wikipedia or UESP, and have some note or link to the source, are: Sload, Tsaesci, Dwemer, Aedra, Falmer, Chimer, Maormer, and Breton (if I missed any, let me know).


 * I also noticed that most of the main race articles, namely Imperial, Redguard, Argonian, Bosmer, Orsimer, Dunmer, Nord, and Altmer, are taken mostly off of the official race codex from the main Elder Scrolls site. I don't think that's a problem, since a link is noted at the bottom and is pretty widespread. If these things still remain an issue, I can certainly summarize the Pocket Guide that came with the Collector's Edition for each race (when I have time). -- TheSpectator 00:36, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

IRC
I was wondering, does Obliviowiki have an IRC channel? If not has there ever been one, or does no one want one? --dpotts 14:22, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I went ahead and set up an unofficial channel on irc.chatspike.net at #obliviowiki.I'm not that great with IRC commands yet but I thought it could be a useful tool. If any Admins or people with knowledge of IRC would like to be Opped just let me know on my Talk page. --dpotts 22:26, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Awesome, I'll probably be on most often, but let's see how many people get on it first. -- TheSpectator 00:17, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * True, we probably don't have need of a full time chat room. Perhaps we could follow UESP's lead and do scheduled meeetings? Someting along the lines of every other week maybe? --dpotts 23:30, 21 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Hmm, sounds like a good idea. Can we get anyone else's support on this? -- TheSpectator 16:22, 22 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Yes, nice idea. If someone organizes meetups, I'll try to log on. Not exactly sure where you all are, but I'm GMT +1 hour (CET). -- Patito 16:59, 22 June 2006 (CDT)

I've been thinking a lot about this trying to come up with a solution. I really believe we could all benefit from having a place to carry out informal conversations but an IRC channel has it's limitations. For one thing we'd all have to be online at the same time no matter what timezone we lived in. Also IRC is far from the easiest format to figure out and requires software and there are no records of conversations for people that aren't online at the time..

Bearing all this in mind I've come up with a suggestion, Google Groups. Google Groups allow:
 * multiple moderators
 * spam protection on all posted email addresses
 * Optional email alerts, including an option for a once a day summary or an alert for every post
 * The ability to pick your own group nickname no matter what your main account is, allowing us to keep our wiki nicknames
 * Messages can be viewed through an atom feed. (I'm sure we could also use Feedburner to convert it to RSS if needed)

I'll admit that I jumped the gun on creating an IRC channel so I'll wait and see if anyone's interested in this before taking any action. Also keep in mind that this would probably mean having a google account. --dpotts 11:25, 5 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Sounds like a great idea; let's do it. -- TheSpectator 19:16, 5 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Group setup at http://groups.google.com/group/obliviowiki --dpotts 20:03, 5 July 2006 (CDT)

Stubs
After a recent impressive stub marking spree, I thought about something. Both the Thieves Guild article and Mages Guild article have plenty of content in my opinion. They are both marked as stubs, and I agree that they deserve to be even better, but relatively speaking they're not really stubs, are they? In these two guild articles and in simular ones, I think we should mark invidual sections with a small "This section should be expanded, please help write about it" note, or something to that effect, instead of marking the whole thing as a stub. What do you others think? -- Patito 09:13, 1 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Agreed. I briefly made Template:Expand-s for a message to expand sections (you can change the wording if you like). -- TheSpectator 10:11, 1 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Great, thanks. I was thinking about this and came up with an idea or two. Instead of a brightly colored box, perhaps a one-line italicized text stating that that section has merely been started, and that "you" can help by expanding it (this would be linked to edit button on that article section, assuming it's got one) - as so. What do you think? I don't know anything about templates, but I pieced this together as best I could. Perhaps:


 * [[Image:Obliviowiki16tsd7vf.png|35px]]  This section is a stub. You can help by [ adding to it] .


 * The image could be replaced, and other text added, but I think it would be great if the section stub markers could be kept brief so as to not interupt the flow of the text. --Patito 07:08, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I agree, as it goes better with the flow. I uploaded just the oblivion letter pic and here's a slightly modified version:


 * [[Image:OblivionSmall.png|25px]]  This section is a stub. You can help by [ adding to it] .


 * -- TheSpectator 13:06, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * That looks very good. Unless someone else objects, I'd like to use that. Did I do something odd, btw? I'm using the Firefox browser, and on just this community portal page, all surrounding links have been decreased in size, and the OblivioWiki image shifted to the side slightly. If you remove the whole section stub code from the page, everything returns to normal sizes, though. Anyone else getting that? --Patito 04:39, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Hmm, I'm getting it too, though only on this page. -- TheSpectator 10:31, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Yep I'm getting it too, in both Firefox 2.0 beta 1 and IE 7 beta 2. --dpotts 14:16, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Okay, made a section stub template. See Template:sect-stub. -- TheSpectator 18:54, 21 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Aha, silly me. I know why the links and obliviowiki image are altered if you include the section stub code as is now. The  tag isn't closed. A   needs to be included at the end, after  , of course. To be on the safe side, someone else better correct that on the actual template page so I don't mess something else up. And perhaps remove the &ndsp; there, since the regular stub template doesn't have that. --Patito 05:00, 22 July 2006 (CDT)

Oblivion.ini and other setting/configuration articles
Should there be a separate page that links to the articles regarding the Console, Oblivion.ini, configuration settings, and other things like that? -- TheSpectator 00:48, 2 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Is there a way to measure traffic to individual pages? Which one is most searched for, and linked to, etc. Whichever way makes it the easiest for someone who is new to the site to find what they're looking for is how it should be done, however that is. --Patito 07:13, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * There are special pages that show some of that stuff. The page Special:Wantedpages in particular has a list of articles that haven't been made yet sorted by the number of pages that link to them. --dpotts 13:42, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I was thinking we should put a link on the main page for something like "Configuration and settings" or some other name that covers, or has links to, the console commands, the Oblivion.ini article, perhaps optimizing graphics for different PCs (low-end, mid, high, etc), how to clear the xbox 360 cache, or other technical type things. Or we could call it the "Technical" article. -- TheSpectator 22:59, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

Spell Merchant table
I made a spell merchant table for Borissean. Currently, spells are listed in alphabetical order (as it is in the game). Do you prefer to have it organized by school of magic? Also, should we wikilink to the effects of the spells, as is currently done right now?

In addition, any preferred colors (than the current light green)? I like the coloring (and the icons) of the Calindil page, though it's organized by school of magic and not fully in a table format. I intend to put similar spell icons once most or all of the spell merchants are listed. -- TheSpectator 22:16, 2 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Personally, I love the look of the table on the Calindil page. That color is great. I find it much easier and quicker to go by school of magic. --Patito 07:18, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Alright. I followed the Calindil page, and incorporated the coloring and the spell pics into Borissean's test page. We don't have all the pics for the spells, so I'll start uploading the rest. -- TheSpectator 13:06, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

NPCs or Bestiary?
Should Marauders, Pirates, Bandits, and other enemy NPCs be considered "bestiary" or "NPCs"? I'm asking for categorization purposes. And should we leave them on the Bestiary page (if we go with NPC)?


 * NPCs are non-player characters, and thus, it might be a better idea to keep them separate. However, it may be advisable to put the two categories (NPC and Bestiary) into a single category. (Enemies?) Marauders, Piratess, and Bandits should stay in NPCs under an Enemy (?) tab. As for this, "And should we leave them on the Bestiary page (if we go with NPC)?", I do not understand the question. --Dragon of the Imperial 18:43, 16 July 2006 (CDT)


 * We could put those enemy NPCs under "Enemy NPCs". As for "And should we leave them on the Bestiary page (if we go with NPC)," I meant that right now, those enemy NPCs are in the Bestiary page. Since we've decided that they are NPCs andd should be separate, should we still have them listed under in the Bestiary page? -- TheSpectator 23:09, 16 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I like NPCs and Enemies, even though that could leave some confusion on some NPCS. Like some of the NPCs turn out to be enemies as you do quests and such, but then that would also be a spoiler, I guess I just awnsered my own question. I say NPCs and Enemies--Serg 23:19, 16 July 2006 (CDT)

Letter to Bethesda on putting OblivioWiki as one of their Links on the main Elder Scrolls page
I've sent a letter to Bethesda on the possibility of placing OblivioWiki as one of their Oblivion fansites on the main Elder Scrolls page. I think we are large enough in content to be listed there. However, I did ask what requirements they may have for websites that wish to be placed there. I'll let you all know if there are any replies. -- TheSpectator 16:59, 12 July 2006 (CDT)


 * The links been put up. You can find it at http://www.elderscrolls.com/links/links_fans.htm. --dpotts 19:31, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * That is awesome. After two weeks of no reply e-mail, I figured they weren't interested. But I guess I was wrong. I don't know how many people look at the list of fan sites there, but it'll definitely increase traffic here, especially in the future (e.g. expansions, Elder Scrolls V, etc). -- TheSpectator 19:51, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * That is really great! --DragonWR12LB 02:55, 28 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, it's how I found this place, so there you go. --Jsparks 15:51, 11 August 2006 (CDT)

Enchanted weapons and armor
One of my new projects is to complete (or do as much as I can of) the enchanted weapons page. The thing, there are different kinds of enchanted weapons/items, so we could link to each article from the enchanted weapons page: However, I need some input from you guys:
 * Daedric artifacts – Own special page already
 * Unique items – Such as Akaviri Sunderblade, Monkeypants, or other unique items that can be bought or found
 * Leveled items – Weapons and armor such as Chillrend that have different stats depending on your level
 * Dremora weapons – Just created for the dremora (though it looks daedric) weapons that the Dremora drop, such as the "Burden of Guilt," "Burden of Secrecy," etc.
 * There are items with suffixes, which is what you already see on the enchanted weapon page.
 * 1) What we should call the page with the suffixes ("Suffixed weapons"?)?
 * 2) In relation to the suffixed weapons, do we need a separate article for each suffixed weapon? Using the example I put on that page: For example, if you find a "Mace of Excess," it is an ebony mace (Stats: 1500, 39 , 22 ) that simply has the "Burden 50 pts for 30 secs on Strike" enchantment attached. The original base stats are not affected by the enchantment. If an enchantment does additional damage (e.g. adds fire damage), the damage is simply added to the base stats (not including the opponent's resistances). So, in my opinion, I don't think we need a separate page for each. I added this example at the top of the table to explain.

Armor, on the other hand, doesn't follow a suffix-type pattern, although it does follow a similar pattern when enchantments are the same. Though that is for another day ;).

If anyone has a better idea of organizing enchanted weapons, feel free to suggest it. -- TheSpectator 23:57, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

Article Pictures
I was just thinking of another way the wiki could get better and all that, and I realized that many of the articles don't have pictures in them. Well, come to think of it, most of them do, but the ones that don't are really made less interesting because of it. I think that each article, big or small, should have minimum one picture in it, if only to spruce up the look of the pages. And if not each article, then at least the important ones, like each quest, or something. Talking about this intoduces the question of how to track the articles without pictures. I was thinking of something like the "Stub" notices, or the "cleanup" or "expand" titles on the top of each page. Haha, i'd try to make one, but i'm definitely not that good. Yet. Anyway, just my two cents. Peace --Jsparks 13:24, 15 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Highly agreed. Pictures make everything more appealing. -- TheSpectator 13:52, 15 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Well here I am replying to my own inquiry. I do have a question however; how do you make a template akin to the "stub" or "Cleanup" ones? I could do one for pictures if I knew how. If there's a section on it (a guideline or preset template or something), just let me know. Otherwise, I guess someone with a little more know-how could. Thanks. --Jsparks 14:09, 15 August 2006 (CDT)


 * To create templates, start an article with "Template:", such as Template:Example. What kind of template were you planning to make for pictures? -- TheSpectator 17:17, 15 August 2006 (CDT)

Technical Page
Another important aspect of oblivion is just how much hardware power you need to run it (xbox360 users excluded). I think there could also be a Technical Page under the Game Mechanics box on the main page. This could encompass "technical issues", as stated on the Task List, as well as minimum/reccommended system requirements, config file settings for optimal performance, other performance tweaking, technical details about the engines during in-game action, and other bits. even a tech support place where peolpe could post hardware issues or something. The uesp (unofficial elder scrolls pages) have a fairly brief section dedicated to this, and i think obliviowiki could have a just as good, if not better section. What do other people think? And if it seems like a plausible idea, how would we go about doing that? Peace - Jsparks 14:35, 15 August 2006 (CDT)


 * We certainly could create a technical page, which would fit under the "Game Mechanics" section of the main page. The Bugs page covers a lot of bugs, and some of their fixes, so we could link or incorporate those into the technical page. Feel free to get it started. -- TheSpectator 17:17, 15 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Done and done. The page has been started. Do you have any suggestions? Also, About copyright stuff, most of it will be pulled off uesp. Is there anything I need to know? I tried to read the discussion on it, but got confused. Jsparks 14:01, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

More stuff for new ..."adders?''
We have a section for stubs, we have a section for dead-end pages, we have a section for cleanup pages. I think another good "section", per se, (especially for new users looking for fresh add-ing goodness) would be a section of pages that have red links. Is there any way to track this? I think that way, New users could try starting from scratch on a topic of their choice from a list of topics, all of which they know won't be taken already. Just another couple of my cents. Peace Jsparks 14:04, 18 August 2006 (CDT)


 * There are the Wanted Pages. However, the user pages and the $1 page aren't articles for editing, heh. -- TheSpectator 14:46, 18 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Very cool. I didn't actually realize there was a section for this! Im happy. I guess there's only one last thing to say...my work here is done. ;) Jsparks 15:47, 18 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Now that we have the latest version of MediaWiki (1.7.1), the Wanted Pages no longer show the user pages, so we could certainly put a link to it on the Main Page, which could possibly influence people to work on them. What do you guys think? -- theSpectator talk 23:58, 27 August 2006 (CDT)


 * That would be a good idea I think, not just for new people, but for everyone. Maybe a section should be devoted for Wanted Pages on the how to help page. I think there should also be a short description of what the wanted pages list is, such as "This page automatically lists articles that have links but don't exist yet. You can help by creating them." Hellhound43 08:08, 28 August 2006 (CDT)