Talk:Ebony Blade (Skyrim)/Archive 1

Giving Your Follower The Ebony Blade
I gave this blade to Lydia to use... She's not gonna stab me in the back, right? I mean I'll play through and I'll say something if she goes berserk.

not unless you leave her at the alter... --Gwyllgi (talk) 07:52, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Possible merge with other entry
This page was nominated for a merger with the older ebony blade entry and that might be reasonable. One issue that has popped up on many pages is conflicting information between games. If a page is cleanly divided between versions then merging the pages seems fine. Too often it seems that is instead leading to conflicting information so having a " (Skyrim)" page comes out the more functional solution. It seems like something the appropriate seniority/authority/community should come to a consensus on. Irrelevant Label (talk) 18:29, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think this page is rich enough, and the differences between the two versions distinct enough, that it merits its own page. Tyrasis (talk) 10:22, December 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * I thoughly agree with Tyrasis, if you were to merge the two pages, then there would be confusion between which stats should apply to the weapon. Esparc (talk) 07:56, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

"It doesn't work on X"
Not every kill produces a response from Mephala. Do not start listing things like "this character does not work because it didn't work for me" when not only is it possible that it simply wasn't a kill that produced a response but there are other variables present, i.e. your radiant story, that might/can/will be effecting it. Given the set relationshiprank cheat it is very likely a simple matter of that actor value which can vary from player to player for each NPC. Final verdict on mechanics like this will probably have to wait on the creation kit. Irrelevant Label (talk) 21:51, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

in my game ive killed my wife my followers and even bums on the street after helping them in quests i hear no voice nor see any improving to my wepon idk if its a bug or what but its really geting on my nerves

___

Does the sword only upgrade if you actually hear the voice? I've been killing beggars I've gifted coins to, mercenaries, those sorts of people... but it hasn't done anything for the sword for ages. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but it is making things very difficult. Not only that but every time I DO find someone I can use it on, and do the Dead Thrall trick, my character killcam-decapitates them within a few attempts and they can't be raised any more. >_<; ~ SotiCoto (talk) 10:37, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

_____

-Okay, couple of answers (perhaps):


 * 1) For The Ebony Blade to upgrade you must one-hit-kill your "frenenmy" (that is to say your NPC target).  They must still have a friendly Disposition, striking them will cause the NPC's disposition to drop.  If done at higher levels, such as 81 it is pretty hard to one-hit leveled NPCs such as Silus Vesuius.  One suggestion is to fortify One-Handed, as even though the E.B. is wielded with two hands it takes bonuses from One-Handed attacks.


 * 2) Mephala's voice only sounds telling the player the blade has improved on every-other hit.  So if you kill Hern (after having sold Hert firewood) and he is your 3rd kill, no voice will sound.  I'm going to post the quotes from the leveling up process, hopefully this will help realize where you are in the process.
 * 3) Just a suggestion:  But I always start The Dark Brotherhood Questline and play until Contract: Kill Narfi.  As long as you have done: The Straw that Broke, Narfi will have a posotive disposition, and thus count as a kill.  Then use the Dead Thrall exploit to kill him 10 times, and voila'!
 * -Hope this helps, I'll try to get around to putting this on the main page, too. RandyPeterson (talk) 00:29, February 14, 2013 (UTC)



Unable to get Ebony Blade if siding with Stormcloaks...
(Minor Spoiler Alert Below)

From what I can tell, if you start the Civil War quests early and side with Ulfric. Then take Whiterun, I don't think it's entirely possible to obtain the Daedric Artifact, considering you'll have to ask Jarl Balgruuf the Greater about his troublesome son in the first place. If it is possible in any way to obtain it, then someone please let me know.

The Jarl is sent to the basement of the Blue Palace, just talk to him there.MatthiasMiles (talk) 06:20, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

If the Jarl is located in the Blue Palace after the Battle of Whiterun, he may not let the story go further. The only way to receive the Whispering door key after this is to level up your pickpocketing (if you have not already) and take it from him.

Whenever you ask Jarl Balgruuf about his son and you sided with the Stormcloaks, Nelkir can be located in the basement of Dragon's reach. Enter Dragon'sReach, ender door to left side, down down the steps. I will update his location to the Character page: Nelkir

Weapon Racks/Plaques
Not sure about other systems, but while placing the Ebony Blade on a weapon rack or plaque doesn't work right, and the Ebony Blade falls as described, the problem does not seem to persist and greatswords placed afterwards work fine. Maybe the weapon rack issue described here was fixed in the patch? (PS3 tested in Whiterun on all three types of weapon racks/plaques.)

I assume the reason the Ebony Blade falls in the first place is that it doesn't have the right attachment points to be mounted, which might indicate that the weapon was created early on and not updated later. (aka a beta version of the weapon) That might explain the perk mismatch, it may have been created and put in-game before the two-handed weapon path was ready and somehow never got updated.

108.88.172.196 10:08, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

You are not the only one, my Ebony Blade and Staff of Magnus keep falling of my weapon racks. Then i put the Ebony Blade in a weapon displaye case in Hjerim, and it havent disapered from there. My brother have problems with the Skull of Corruption, there keep falling of his weapon rack. Then he just let it stand on the ground, and there it lays fine :D.

Same for me (Breezehome, ). Tungstic (talk) 01:26, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

Follower turned hostile, any idea why?
When I struck ghorbash iron hands (which I gained as a follower through persuasion) with the ebony blade he turned hostile and a bounty of 40 was added. Killing him did not qu any dialogue by mifala either.. any ideas? And did the kill count towards upgrading the blade?

98.112.82.179I would turn hostile too if you struck me with a sword. The blade works on people who "trusts" you most likely since you accquired this follower through persuasion it doesnt count as a trusted follower.

82.119.233.2 16:21, December 15, 2013 (UTC) Actually no. All followers work, though as stated above on the talk page, the kill has to be one-hit, because hitting someone with the sword causes your target to be hostile, therefore erasing their friendly disposition towards you.

If you want to kill followers, try Sven/Faendal.

The Irony of Ebony?
"The Irony of Ebony" keeps getting removed and readded, so I just want to add my two cents as justification for keeping it off the main page.

1. As some editor stated in the history, it is "baseless speculation". It cites the Daedric prince Mephala's personality as the primary reason for the piece of writing, but no precedent, either in or out of game seem to support this theory. The Ebony Blade has been in at least three other Elder Scrolls games (Arena, Daggerfall, and Oblivion; absent in Morrowind, as far as I know), and it was a one-handed sword in all of those with no mismatch of stats, despite the fact that Mephala and his influence were present in all those games as well. For The Irony of Ebony to be true, Bethesda would be nullifying the Ebony Blade's three essentially-uniform appearances in the series and completely reimagining it. While that is a possibility, the flip-side is that from a stat point of view, a weapon using the two-handed perks skill vs the one-handed perks skill is only one variable. A dev entering the wrong value is much more believeable than 15+ years of lore reconstructed.

2. The speculation made is based on the Ebony Blade being unique, when, however, the Headsman's Axe suffers from this same mismatch. All the supposed lore regarding Mephala intentionally bringing about this mismatch then becomes a non-factor, since Mephala didn't create the Headsman's Axe, and it and the Ebony Blade are completely unrelated.

3. The speculation is making lore from the meta-game, not the actual game atmosphere. Stats are meta-game. Game lore dictates what an item's stats should be, not the other way around with stats dictating a backstory.

4. The only justification the author provides for keeping the section on the page is that Bethesda hasn't patched the issue yet. The burden of proof, however, dictates that justification is on the author. Because Bethesda has said nothing on the matter, there is no proof. The fact that Bethesda hasn't said anything AGAINST the premise is not proof.

5. The author himself states that the section is only speculation. Speculation belongs on talk pages, not on the main page. The main page is for info that is proven true. If Bethesda ever releases a document or game change that confirms speculation, then it is a candidate for addition to the page, but not until that time should it be added.

I have opted to remove "The Irony of Ebony" based on the above points. ZeroTorrent (talk) 04:19, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

It is not about speculation on the behavior of the item. It is an accurate and fitting flavor text/lore extrapolation and that it should not be taken as commentary on the "glitch" and is at best a form of speculation about the game mechanics is included as a disclaimer. It should stay on there, or perhaps be some kind of footnote on mephala's page. The bottom line that should count is that it does provide a contribution to lore understanding surrunding the item and it's master.

On an unrelated note, the workings of the perks are well known thanks to reverse engineering from the weapon template codes now yet that section keeps being edited to include new inaccuracies....sigh. Irrelevant Label (talk) 07:57, December 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * I do agree in contributing lore, but my issue was with the fact that the extrapolation given has little basis in the game. The logic behind it seems to be that "Mephala is the prince of deceit" coupled with "this sword doesn't seem to function normally" supposedly equals "Mephala did that on purpose to trick us." The problem here is that the author of that piece does not take into account any of a number of other things, including the weapon's other issues. It is not just a perk and skill mismatch, but includes nearly every value of the weapon. If it was only the perks switched up, then The Irony of Ebony might be an interesting insight into one possible theory, but that is not the case. The fact that other data values are swapped, plus the fact that there is at least one other weapon out there that suffers from the same bug means that it has nothing to do with anything from a lore perspective. Like I said above, The Irony of Ebony is a reverse-engineering of lore from an observed abnormality in the game, rather than something written based on previous lore or anything Bethesda has released. This makes the lore conditional based on its coding, which is never a good thing. It should be the opposite.


 * Also, you're right - I was erroneous in my statement about the perks. I was thinking of the defining SKILL that was only a single variable entry. It was merely a mistype on my part. I changed the word to "skill" to fit what I meant to say. ZeroTorrent (talk) 03:24, December 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * I say we keep it.O_O (talk) 17:43, January 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's both speculation and clutter, as well as slightly incoherint. Aside from that, it's far more likely that the wonky stat's were just an oversight on Bethesda's part, same with the Headsman's Axe. I vote we remove it.Mad Mike (talk) 23:31, January 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Removed it before seeing this discussion, and whoever put it in there don't re-add it.
 * It's clearly got nothing to do with the Lore, just some guys made-up backstory, which means it does not belong on the wiki. Also it's idiotic in and of itself. EOD. 75.164.145.245 22:49, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

How does the upgrading work?
So, do you kill one friend, and it's upgraded and that's it, or can you infinitely kill friends to upgrade it every time? Or is it somewhere in the middle that there's a number you need to get to before it's done upgrading?


 * As far as I know, it upgrades to a maximum of 10 times, gaining 2 damage with each kill. After that, it no longer gains in power. ZeroTorrent (talk) 03:26, December 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * It hits a limit at which it is fully upgraded and it's leech is for 30 points. Mephala says something to the effect of such when it happens. I don't recall exaclty but up to that point her comments will encourage continuing to empower the sword while the final one is more of a 'you've done it, keep up the good work, bye' message. Irrelevant Label (talk) 21:51, January 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Her final words are actually, "Now go forth, child. Continue your tiny subversions against the orders of trust and intimacy." (She's so deliciously nasty that I couldn't resist a screen shot.) 174.6.51.17 12:48, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Katana vs Nodachi
Wouldn't it be more approiate to call it a nodachi, not a katana?

It is my understanding that a katana, generally speaking, was a one handed sword, in size terms, compared to europeon swords, even if the grip was a two handed grip.

A tachi, was usually a little longer than a katana, and had a more pronounced curve. This would be like a hand and a half sword.

A Nodachi, was a two handed sword.

Is the above correct?

If so, then the ebony blade would be a nodachi, or maybe a tachi, but certainly not a katana. Jabberwockxeno (talk) 21:44, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

If your looking for something that resembles a Katana, locate the Dragonbane. It's pretty good when upgraded to legendary. U0nlyHateCuzUenvy (talk) 23:29, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Rewrote the characteristics section
Due to the nature of the WEAP data for the Ebony Blade, I rewrote the characteristics section for the Ebony Blade. The old section touched on only a small portion of the issue with the Blade's stats, and thus came to an incorrect conclusion that the Ebony Blade was a two-handed sword by all measures except for perks and damage enhancements. The opposite is true, however - the Ebony Blade is a one-handed sword in all regards except for its handedness.

I have rewritten the section to more accurately describe this strange issue. 96.28.195.153 04:37, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Fixed on 360
I saw a bit on the main page that the Ebony Blade was fixed on 360. Can anyone confirm this? I have the latest update for the PC version thus far, and it's still the same as the past couple patches. Seeing as how consoles supposedly get the updates later compared to PCs due to timely authentication processes with Sony and Microsoft, and the latest PC version still has the errors, this shouldn't be the case. I don't have the 360 version to check, so could someone confirm if this is true or not?

It is not fixed on 360. If PC doesn't get anything right now, consoles don't either. PC is Bethesda's main market and system so they tend to focus more on those players problems.

Skyrim sold many more copies on the consoles than PC. PC is not their main market, and has not been since Morrowind.

Background quote
I couldn't find the page on how to handle quotes or lore. Before I edited its structure a bit, the background section had the phrase "the legend says", followed by the description of the Blade from Daggerfall. I opted to lead the background section with the description, as it seems to fit better in that position, but it is out of place on the page, due to its straight-from-game writing style. I was hoping someone better knew about handling direct quotes from the game series. If not, I suggest a slight rewrite of that description to better fit on this page. ZeroTorrent (talk) 07:38, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Training?
So, if I understand correctly, it gleans almost all its data from the 1h template. Does it train 1h or 2h? If its own training does not help its performance, does that make it a purely late-game weapon (at which point much better alternatives are available)? 145.100.125.133 06:37, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * It both trains and uses the 2h skill. So, it will get stronger as you use it, since it will raise its associated level. But, if you don't also raise 1h, there won't be many perk benefits available to you. So yeah, it's probably best as a late-game weapon, or a hybrid build, at least as the current patch has it. ZeroTorrent (talk) 08:17, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * It uses 1h perks in damaging and stanima cost, including the critical ability with swords. However, it uses two-handed for the other things such as decapitation and sprinting power attack.

Ebony Blade characteristics and Stormbringer
I do wonder if the 1-hand/2-hand mix is less a mistake and more a direct a nod towards the 'Black Blade'/Stormbringer wielded by Elric of Melnibone? In the books it was always a 2 handed weapon but the enchantment allowed Elric to wield it one handed as well. The feeding on the souls of freinds is also a very Stormbringer characteristic so the use of friendly NPCs to charge it seems pretty consistent.

So, maybe not bugged, but the only way of mixing the characteristics of what was a very singular weapon?

Elric and the blade

Desktopcarl (talk) 17:39, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Improvements
Do you get updated about improvements out in the wild or do you have to go back to dragonsreach?

Armor Glitch while holding Ebony Blade
I seem to have uncovered another glitch (sort of) with it on 360. I'm currently standing in the middle of a large melee wearing full Daedric (note: Heavy) armour with the ebony blade drawn. Why am I posting at the same time? Because it's levelling up the Light Armor skill.

Might it be that in addition to levelling the 'wrong' weapon skill, it also levels the 'wrong' armor skill? I don't know how to check code to verify, but if someone that edits this thing is so inclined, try it out for yourself. It seems to work any time the weapon is equipped, whether it's sheathed or not. I don't think I need to describe what a boon this is to heavy/twohand builds once you're around level 55. I will HAPPILY sacrifice weapon efficiency for my near-invincibility leveling an unused skill.

173.230.27.122 11:45, January 16, 2012 (UTC)MattWood

Were you wearing the Amulet of Articulation by chance? It's classified as light armer despite being a necklace, and thus would have that effect. The Ebony Blade does not, because I'm using it to level Two Handed while wearing full Daedric Armor.75.241.183.91 17:32, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

killing people
Who that you kill can be counted twards upgrading the ebony blade? i have it, it does 20 damage, but i also dual wield chillrend & the nightingale blade, both of which do more than twice the amount of damage the ebony blade does.soi rly need to upgrade it... but is there a list someone can give me that is a list of ppl u can kill that upgrade the ebony blade? thanks,

-Ace Hollis (talk) 02:29, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Does the conjure familiar exploit still work on Patch1.9? (I've got the newest patch installed, ps3 version)Wenny0119 (talk) 09:05, May 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * It does not on the PC.  Grail Quest (talk) 12:17, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

The section on kill candidates needs to be verified. Entries like Brother Verulus do not work. Grail Quest (talk) 12:17, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Storm Shout and the Ebony Blade
I used Storm Shout in Whiterun while having the Ebony Blade equipped (and drawn, I think), wearing the Ebony Mail.

During the chaos that followed the blade levelled, Mephala spoke, and all that wonderful stuff. This might mean that kills via shout damage may count towards the blade kills (if they are friendly kills). Can anyone verify this?

174.0.11.23 11:28, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

Didn't do quest >>
It turns out i managed to find the ebony blade in a cave on the 360...i dont remeber which or where, but I know i didnt do the quest :/ is that normal or is it a glitch?

66.25.191.101 07:20, April 25, 2012 (UTC)Catherine

I've now fully improved the Ebony Blade (on the PC, by killing then resurrecting an entire orc stronghold), and from what I can tell, the bug is now fixed. At 91 skill, and no 2H perks, I believe it's damage is 52. For comparison, one of my 1H swords (albeit a "Legendary" one) has a damage of around 190, with full 1H perks and 100 skill. I'm pretty confident in saying that this would'nt be the case if the Ebony Blade was in fact modified by 1H perks. Also, I occasionally get a fear effect on low level npcs. I'm not sure if this is an effect added with whatever patch fixed the Ebony Blade or if it is another glitch. It does make sense lore-wise though, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional. And Shadowmere now becomes hostile whenever I draw a weapon. I only mention it here because it started immediately after I finished improving the Ebony Blade. Could be a coincidence/totally unrelated bug, though.

Stray Dogs charge the blade on 360.
subject line kinda says all.The Freak of Nature Twilitlink 15:23, May 12, 2012 (UTC)

Why is the reason that it is untemperable assumed to be justified by an in-game book when nothing else is?
I think that using the in-game book warning people not to take the Ebony Blade as a reason for it to be untemperable is not really viable, at least without confirmation from Bethesda. By that logic, Mehrunes Razor could easily be thought of as untemperable, as Mehrunes Dagon himself had to repair his artifact in front of the PC's eyes. Obviously that is not the case, as it tempers fine, as does every other Daedric artifact that should be temperable save the Masque of Clavicus Vile. I propose that the problem is more likely due to the already remarkable mess that I've heard the weapon's data is when viewed using the console. Besides, what most tempering in the game appears to be for weapons is sharpening using a grindstone. Regardless of what tempering involves in real life this has little to do with the forge or anvil that is often right next to the grindstone if you observe the in-game animations. By extension, it also has nothing to do with hinted at attempts to literally melt the blade. Other books in several Elder Scrolls games hint that Ebony is a challenging material to work with. If tempering was intentionally left out, then as you level up it would possibly be the first weapon artifact to become unviable as it's only advantage compared to a temperable weapon enchanted with absorb health would be that the effect is infinite. 75.241.187.16 07:39, June 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * The Ebony Blade isn't temperable, that's a fact... it just so happens that the lore supports that fact, I don't think it's ever been the goal of whoever edited the article to make it seems like it was the sole reason for it. Either way it doesn't matter, and it isn't worth a wall of text in the discussion section if you ask me, if you want to argue about this there are forums for that. 81.220.58.149 01:24, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

Should not be confused with Ebony Sword
This is stated at trivia section, but I think it should be on top of the page to provide clarification. Any ideas? Wenny0119 (talk) 21:49, May 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Makes sense to me. I've added it to the top of the page and removed the trivia part. — TombRaiser  SPEAK!  22:41, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Upgrading (smithing)
does it need Arcane Blacksmith to upgrade?Wenny0119 (talk) 07:04, May 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's enchanted, so I would assume yes. Everything enchanted needs that perk. You could test it and add it to the page.--LeDaea (talk) 07:28, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Daedric Quests
The Daedric quests do NOT work, at least on vanilla (that's what they called it with Morrowind, don't know about Skyrim). Both Silus and Verulus were no go's. I play on Xbox so I couldn't test with console commands or anything, but both priests should have been odd numbered kills, and I went back to kill a friend to test when it should have been an even number kill and sure enough no message either time. I know you said not to mention when individual kills don't work, but god forbid we talk about issues on a talk page, right? Even the other ES wiki does not list them.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ebony_Blade_Victims

98.127.85.179 04:17, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

Hunters on Solstheim won't charge blade
Can anyone confirm this bug report? Cubears (talk) 02:48, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Killing the hunters on Solstheim after helping them kill a netch may not charge the blade.

Anyone else notice that, using Vampire's Servant, you can resurrect friendly NPCs you've already killed, and kill them again, and it'll feed the Blade's power? 74.193.59.70 14:27, January 26, 2015 (UTC)

Sweep + Ebony Blade
It may be worth noting that the Ebony Blade benefits greatly from Sweep, as each target hit due to Sweep's effect procs Ebony Blade's on-hit effect.

98.239.231.134 06:32, March 22, 2015 (UTC)