Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-13417807-20130726204600/@comment-9062114-20130910021341

Pickleseller wrote: Zippertrain85 wrote: Pickleseller wrote: You don't realize how naive you are, Zipper. About everything. The Stormcloaks aren't the best hope. You act like Ulfric is a golden saint. You want to know what he did? He betrayed the Empire twice! Once during the Great War, when he gave up information that he thought was important to the capture of the Imperial City. And when he started the war.

He also massacred a group of peaceful natives just so he could worship Talos. And the Nords weren't there first. After the Dwemer disappeared, the Reachmen moved into the abandoned cities and caves. Then they got taken over. During the Great War, they took over again. They retook their own lands. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" came and reretook land that the Forsworn worked for. Ulfric, using a power that was considered sacred and not to be used brashly, shouted them all to bits, not sparing even the children, and took the Reach, just so he could worship his precious little god.

But that didn't stop there. Oh no, using the same power that was not to be used at leisure, except for the Dragonborn, he killed a king who would have done what he asked. He was innocent. He did not need to die. Oh please. He didn't give up any information intentionally, they used minds tricks on him to indirectly reveal information. He did NOT start the war, the Empire did. They were attacking the Stormcloaks long before Ulfric killed Torygg. Yes, I do think Ulfric is a great man, he's fighting against the oppression of the Dominion and the Empire!

Peaceful? Ha! They were anything but. The Reachmen would kidnap innocent people and sactifice them to their gods. The Reachmen were given a chance to convert and live in normal society, many did. Nice job distorting lore though. Ulfric has never claimed the Thu'um to be "sacred". It was a gift from Kyne to be used in combat. You actually believe The Bear of Markarth. That is book is classic Imperial Propaganda. If Ulfric really was like this why doesn't he kill any Imperial citizens or Jarls? Or why doesn't anyone in Cidnha Mine talk about him if he supposedly did all of these terrible things to the Reachmen?

Everyone knew Ulfric wanted to succeed, if Torygg had any interest in doing it he would've already done it. Why would the Empire fight a non-existant enemy? The Stormcloaks were founded by Ulfric (Oh, and please tell me were it says they were peaceful protesters. I have evidence countering this and you have none supporting it, as of yet) who were instigating a rebellion. And he's not as against the Dominion as you might think. You might be tired of hearing this, but the Thalmor Dossier reveals that he supplied information to the Dominion about the Empire before the Markarth Incident.

It was their religion. You see that word: religion. He drove out a religious group of people so he could worship his own god in a different religion. I'm not distorting lore. From a loading screen it says: " The Nords first conquered Markarth from the native people of  the Reach  thousands of years ago." The Dwemer built it, the Dwemer disappeared, the Reachmen colonized it, the Nords invaded, the Reachmen retook their lands, and Ulfric reconquered. Ulfric does say that it is sacred. You can speak with him before you speak with the Greybeards, but after Dragon Rising. He says it shouldn't be used lightly, but that's exactly what he did, in the Battle of Solitude, the Battle of Windhelm, killing Torryg, and driving out the Reachmen. He doesn't kill the Jarls for political reasons. If he doesn't kill them, there will be blind fools like you who actually think he's a caring person and follow is word without question.

Why couldn't the one of those traitor Jarls bring it up? You know, the ones who think that without support from the Empire, Skyrim would be a better place. Are you saying they're don't support Ulfric? Yes, they were peaceful, if you have evidence disproving this I'll gladly see it. As long it's not a wiki article. Because that's not evidence. One Stormcloak soldier says how they were attacked by the Empire before 4 e 201 I heard. That's my proof. I am tired of hearing about the Dossier. Because people consistantly take what it says out of context. I have proof Elenwen did mind tricks on Ulfric, at the High Hrothgar meeting she purposely tries to anger him which he then says "no, not this time", implying that she did that to him to get info.

It was a violent relgion! Worshipping Talos is not. There is a large difference? You're telling me that driving out a group of violent extremists was a bad thing? So what? Were not talking about what happened thousands of years ago. Anyway, that was Tiber Septim, he conquered all of Tamriel. Fighting Torygg was a big occasion. It might've meant Skyrim's freedom. Gameplay does NOT equal lore. Why not kill them and just hid it? Nothing stopping him from doing that. If he truly was a corrupt dictator he could just use propaganda to hide or jusfiy it. The only blind fool here is you.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here.