Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-13417807-20130726204600/@comment-10207438-20140213205549

Pink Slim wrote:

81.80.208.198 wrote: He's a guy who walked into the Blue Palace to challenge and murder the High King with dragon shouting (talk about a fair duel) in front of everyone. Challenge yes, Torryg knew Ulfric had the power of the Thu'um and he still accepted, to call it a murder is bigoted ignorance.

81.80.208.198 wrote: Then he started raising an army to carry out massacres against Imperial civilians everywhere His army was created twenty five years prior to the start of the game, the reason? so he could do what the Empire refused and retake the land stolen by the reachmen, these reachmen committed massacres and removed their territory from Skyrim, which would also remove them from The Empire.

81.80.208.198 wrote: in the name of "Talos" It was the Imperial Jarl of The Reach that gave Ulfric and his men Free Worship of Talos, they then arrested them for accepting it and called his liberation of The Reach a massacre, even though most atrocities were committed around ten years before the game started, which was well past the time that control of The Reach was given back to the Markarth and Imperial governments.

When you're arrested for having permission to follow your beliefs, and then others who also follow your beliefs are kidnapped, tortured, and killed, you're not fighting for your beliefs, you're fighting to rid yourselves of the monsters who call themselves a government that wants to protect you and people like you.

81.80.208.198 wrote: when all he really cares about is power. The reason he wants power is so he can remove the empire from power, the reason he wants to remove the empire from power is because they force the people of Skyrim to allow the Thalmor into their country, the Thalmor are also given free reign to kidnap, torture, and kill anyone who they suspect to be a worshiper of Talos (you know, the god who the were given permission to worship until the Thalmor found out about it)

The AD had the war lost, all the Empire needed do was send reinforcements to Hammerfell and they would have killed off the last soldiers the AD had available, they could have taken a slow and easy approach from that point to choke the AD. Instead what did the Empire do? they quit, not only quit, but even forced the AD to become the winners. they gave them permission to kill anyone they wanted to, they gave away half a country, and they even let them take forts to install troops.

This is not a government you want to trust your people to, this is why Ulfric wants power, to free his people from the empire who is letting the thalmor poison them.

81.80.208.198 wrote: Not to mention his total lack of consideration towards Skyrim immigrants such the Argonians slaving away on the docks of Windhelm. The Argonians work for Torbjorn, not Ulfric, they are admitted Thieves and Drug addicts, they are poor and have no home, so they live in the assemblage provided to them by their employer.

Ulfric has no ties to this, they are mistreated by their employer, just because he's a nord who sympathizes with the Stormcloaks does not mean that Ulfric has ties to the way he treats his employees.

81.80.208.198 wrote: He's clearly a sociopath who will stop at nothing to get what he wants, and should be stopped by all means necessary. What he wants is for the empire to do its job and protect its people instead of letting the enemy kill them in their sleep. stopping him is not going to solve a thing, when the real goal is to stop his real enemies, whom the empire knows is trying to kill the empire, yet does nothing to stop them, even giving them permission to kill people who they consider a threat. My post.

213.245.12.205 wrote: I notice you didn't quote the part where I said Ulfric kill the High King in an UNFAIR duel by using the power of dragon shouting ;) as you should have noticed, but didn't, my FIRST part did infact respond to that, " Torryg knew Ulfric had the power of the Thu'um and he still accepted"

He had two options, accept or decline, he knew that if he accepted he would die, yet he still did. if you're going to call Ulfric a murderer you should call Torryg a suicidal idiot.

213.245.12.205 wrote: Also no he's clearly more interested in power than in the well-being of the people, even the Nord people.

This "retaking our country" is just bullcrap propaganda so that he can sit his pretentious bottom on the High Throne, nothing else. bullcrap? kid, Ulfric's been fighting for the people of Skyrim since the Markarth Incident, twenty five years before the start of the game, the empire has been hounding him ever since, the war officially started after Ulfric killed Torryg... ONE year before the start of the game.

what I've said is in-game facts, all you've done is say "PROOPAGONDALA!!!" where are your facts? where is your evidence? I can support my facts, all you're doing is saying "nooo, das proopagondala, ufrilc is evul "

And here's something to chew on, if all he wants is power, then why the fuck would he choose to so openly oppose the two largest forces in all of tamriel? he wants power right? so why the hell would he fight against the empire and the thalmor if all he wants is to gain power? How the hell is making the worst enemies going to make him more powerful?

213.245.12.205 wrote: Oh please, all of this happens in HIS city. In no other hold of Skyrim is there such open displays of racism than in Windhelm, where the dark elves literally live in a ghetto and are beat verbally and sometimes physically assaulted in the streets. Not to mention the disturbed child being left alone to summon the Dark Brotherhood in his house without anyone doing anything about it, and last but not least, the infamous Butcher serial killer. Even in the corrupt Riften people have a better quality of life.

He either doesn't care about any of what his happening, or he's such an incompetent Jarl that he's unable to maintain order in his streets and make his citizens behave in a civilized way. No open displays of racism, you mean other than Markarth right? the most racist city in skyrim, hell the people there basically forced the reachmen into slavery, sure many of the Reachmen became Forsworn, but hey, at least they're not as racist as Windhelm, where they have a possibly self sufficiant dunmer government that loudly protests against everything the local government does yet wants them to clean up their streets when they are severely undermanned.

As for living in a ghetto, as I said above, there is evidence that The Grey Quarter is a self sufficiant government within the city of Windhelm, so Ulfric doesn't rule over them and he doesn't clean up their messes unless he has reason to, and the way the dunmer treat the nords it's not likely to convince Ulfric that they'd be a good investment to his war, when he could instead use his money and power to fund his soldiers that are outnumbered, and out geared. OH, and they're not forced to live in the Grey Quarter, Altmer(who are the bulk of the Aldmeri Dominion, and therefore the enemy of the Stormcloaks) who live within Windhelm are treated fairly because of the way they fit within the city, they don't argue with the Nords, they cooperate, they live happily with the nords who argue with their dunmeri cousins and trying to kill their thalmor brothers and sisters, why? because they also disagree with the Thalmor, and unlike the Dunmer, they're helping the people of windhelm by supplying goods and services to help them in their goals of ridding the thalmor.

Now as to the verbally and sometimes physically part. Verbally, yeah, where have you been were there's no friction between Dunmer and Nords? you ever played Morrowind? that's the most racist game in the series, and guess who's the biggest source, the fucking dunmer; thousands of years of friction between the Dunmer and Nords and you think they're going to shrug off everything just  because they live in the same city. Physically, where are you getting this from, the drunk who challenges you to a bar brawl no matter what race you are? that sure does prove your point doesn't it?(if you couldn't tell that was sarcasm) there is no evidence as to physical violence ever taking place between the Dunmer of the Grey Quarter and the Nords of Windhelm.

now the dark brotherhood thing, it's the dark brotherhood, do you really think a guard is just going to go into a house where there might be highly trained assassins? there's a reason the darkbrotherhood is successful and hidden, getting caught by guards isn't one of them.

Really? you're going to use the butcher as an argument? really? I mean there's a serial killer that hasn't been seen commiting his murders in windhelm, so you blame Ulfric. There's a murder taking place in Markarth as soon as you walk in and the guards ignore the fact that he's a forsworn sympathizer, yet you're not blaming Igmund for that, how about the werewolf in Falkreathe? the insane wizard under the Honningbrew meadery? the pirates in solitude? the vampires in morthal? the thieve's guild, Skooma smugglers, Maven Black-Briar in riften? The Thalmor in Skyrim? you can't blame Ulfric because the guards in windhelm are undermanned, especially when he's fighting a war.

Do you pay attention in history classes? a country in the middle of a war isn't going to be crime free, especially when all the people who want to protect their people are dying far away from the major cities.