Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-26213507-20150715194939/@comment-24075086-20150810221141

S&#039;Dalaar the Snowcat wrote: Shigeru Thalmor Slayer wrote: And tell me, would you accept as an Emperor someone who surrended to the enemy without fighting? I wouldn't. Read again the bold part of my post, please. If the Emperor had accepted the ultimatum, things would be worse. And where is stated that the Empire has become something of a leech of the other provinces? If so, the Empire would be gone a long time ago. And seceding Skyrim from the Empire will not help the Thalmor? Have you ever heard of that quote "Divide and Conquer"? Seceding Skyrim from the Empire would be exactly what the Thalmor want, that's why the banned the worship of Talos: to anger the Nords and fight against the Empire. Just as College Mage Ferris said, with the Empire out of Skyrim, all the Thalmor need to do is to invade an already weakened Cyrodiil and suddenly you have an army of elves and Khajiits knocking on your door. That is the price of your so desired freedom.

Side note: It's just me or the Nords don't have a way of forward-thinking? It seems that all that matters for them is the "here and now". They don't care about long-term consequences.

How would it been worse if he surrendered and prevented war? The outcome would have been the exact same, except the Imperial army would have been intact. Sure, people would question Titus' ability to rule, but it could have bought him time to prepare his defense better, as it would have taken some time before the treaty terms would be in full effect. As described, the Dominion didn’t have too much trouble breaching Cyrodiil's border and taking over city after city. The Empire's defense was too unprepared for war. Which is kind of weird, the Empire must had most of their troops in Cyrodiil since they no longer had Legions in the previous provinces.

That’s precisely the point! The Empire exists because of the other provinces. Without help from High Rock and Skyrim, the Empire would have fallen shortly after the war. The Legion doesn't even have enough resources on their own to quell the "the little" Stormcloak rebellion on their own and needs help from their allies in form of gold and additional men as soldiers.

Indeed. They angered the Nords(and they are rightfully angry) to wage war with the Empire. The Thalmor needed war, not necessarily division. That is why the war needed to end, with one side being victorious. But I'm glad you actually brought that up, since I hear that a lot from Empire supporters. Let me ask: why do people seem to think that Skyrim will be left to fend for themselves if the Stormcloaks take over? Do people really think Ulfric will just sit on his throne and roll his thumbs? After the civil war is over, the Stormcloaks mention that they will rebuild their armies and take it to the Dominion. If the Dominion sends their newly recovered army to attack the Empire, it will weaken the Dominions own defenses, perfect for the Stormcloak army to attack them. That is why I doubt the Dominion would launch an assault against the Empire, because it would leave them vulnerable for an attack from Skyrim(either Legionnaires or Stormcloaks) and maybe even Hammerfell.

When people say that the Stormcloaks live in the past and can't look forward, I can’t help but to crack up over the massive irony. Those who support the Empire often do so out of the belief that the Empire is still this powerful force that will restore peace and bring prosperity throughout Tamriel. Ever since the Septim dynasty ended, everything went downhill all the way to the Great War. The current Empire has crumbled, both their military and their leadership. The Stormcloaks realize that the Imperials are unfit to rule anyone except themselves and wants to move forward to what they see a "brighter future". Whether or not it really is a brighter future is anyone's guess. Considering how incompetently the Empire handled the previous provinces of Summerset Isles, Valenwood, Elsweyr, Morrowind and Black Marsh, I think Skyrim is better off handling their own politics.

''"To cling to something past its usefulness is unseemly, how much more so when that thing is you?" ''– Old Orc

That quote has nothing to do with the Civil War, but it perfectly describes how I feel about the current Empire.

I agree with you 100%. If the empire is allowed to survive this it'll set a precedent that a ruling power can do whatever they want to their people, betray them, kill them, and oppress them and it'll all turn out alright in the end! The way the empire has treated its provinces is disgusting and should in no way be tolerated!