Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-26213507-20150715194939/@comment-26801133-20150822225656

Shigeru Thalmor Slayer wrote: If I have to do a logical analysis of this case, I'd say Alduin interrupted Ulfric's execution because he needs Nords souls to fuel his power and the civil war would provide him those souls. That's why the Dragonborn enforced a ceasefire between the Empire and the Stormcloaks at High Hrothgar until Alduin is defeated. That is a very interesting way to look at it. It never crossed my mind. But I really, really doubt it. After all, Alduin was stuck in the stream of time and just resurfaced. I don't really think he even knows whats going on, or even less who Ulfric Stormcloak is. Him crashing Helgen was probably just a very lucky coincidence. Or who knows? Alduin is the uniquest dragon of them all, so he might have forseen the Civil War? Still, highly unlikely. Also, to correct you, the Dragonborn made temporary peace with the two sides because the Jarl of Whiterun wouldn't have agreed to use Dragonsreach as a trap otherwise. He was worried that one side could take advantage of the possible destruction of the city to claim it for themselves.

Ottoman Hold wrote: True, but you forgot the element of surprise. For Solitude, The Thalmor can place their ships behind the embassy until nightfall, then sneak where the Katariah was. Then they can sneak into the city during the night. It may or may not work, but for The Dominion, it would be a surprise attack. The boats can go to Windhelm by parking in the tundra to the north for a while while a squad sneaks into the city from the back at night. While they take out the sentries, the boats can park in the docks and begin the barrage. A little bit of a tangent, but I felt like putting that in.

Assuming they could move through completely undetected. If there are signs of a Thalmor force near your city, the Jarl would have his/her troops on highest alert. Maybe pull troops from the nearby fort as reinforcements. Thing is that, a ship full of Thalmor would not still not last agaisnt the Stormcloak army in either city. Not for long, at least. It will be pretty much a guaranteed suicide mission. I'm not sure how the Thalmor soldiers will feel about that...

I would disagree. I will bring up the point that if Ulfric had begun with The Dominion, The Empire would do what they did with Hammerfell, and there would be a peaceful secession. Unless the Thalmor bend the rules with the WGC and tell The Empire to attack the now free Stormcloaks, I don't think The Empire would take out a potential ally (remember, this is if there was a peaceful succession, not really what happened). Once they had seceded, there would be no more shackles.

But that's just the thing! They don't want to let go of Skyrim. They want those resources, as well as their military support. The Empire left Hammerfell because it was a part of WGC. But they have no reason to let go of Skyrim. Especially not because of  Ulfric. The Empire could care less about him. If Ulfric would try to amass an army against the Dominion, he would have been declared a traitor and the Empire would have put a stop to it for their own interests. Pretty much just like in the rebellion against the Empire. The way I see it, a bloody conflict could not have been avoided not matter what they did. The Imperial's selfish interests prevents all forms of a peaceful seceding.

Diinfothur wrote: But they're still traitors and I said almost everyone....

An Empire supporter calling others traitors? Oh, ain't that rich. The Empire sure has room to talk, since they show such a "fine example of loyalty", don't they? Banning Talos, which pretty much gave the finger to all Nords(and even non-Nords) who fought and died in the Great War. Totally not treason on their part. Or abandoning Black Marsh, Morrowind and Hammerfell, which they promised protection and support? Yep, that's totally not backstabbing. Yes, people can argue that they had their reasons for doing so. But betrayal is still betrayal, no matter on how you look at it. That is why I don't see the Stormcloaks as traitors. You can't call someone a traitor for betraying someone else who betrayed him first.

But ok, let's just say that the Stormcloaks are indeed traitors. But what does that mean? Nothing. Not all treasons are bad. Think of the rebellious Restless League, led by Cyrus, during the the Stros M'Kai Uprising. When the island's provisional governor was killed, the rebels were able to negotiate a peace treaty more favorable to Hammerfell. But they were also traitors to the Empire too. So really, calling the Stormcloaks traitors is a pretty toothless insult in this case.