The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot/Log 2015 October 17


 * 20:00:06: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, time for the moot, before Sajuuk starts I have one fast thing to say if we are all ok with that.
 * 20:00:14: Bluesonic1: Oh maybe he'll be on then but yeah, sleep editing is a big possibility lol
 * 20:00:18: SuperSajuuk: eh, Atv can start first ;)
 * 20:00:23: SuperSajuuk: editor's privilege ;)
 * 20:00:30: Cheatcodechamp: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Wiki%3AMoot
 * 20:00:40: Atvelonis: We should probably wait a couple of minutes for latecomers
 * 20:00:42: KINMUNE: Hello there, Bronkiin!
 * 20:00:45: Atvelonis: hey bronkiin
 * 20:00:48: KINMUNE: Hello there, ShawnCognitionCP!
 * 20:00:49: Atvelonis: hey shawn
 * 20:00:51: SuperSajuuk: yo Bron, Shawn :3
 * 20:00:53: Cheatcodechamp: Some small changes have been made, please make sure you understand the changes
 * 20:00:55: G0LD3NF1RE: Sup Shawn
 * 20:00:56: Bronkiin: Hey. CCC?
 * 20:00:56: ShawnCognitionCP: Hello.
 * 20:00:59: ShawnCognitionCP: Only stopping in.
 * 20:01:05: Bluesonic1: Hey Bron and Shawn!
 * 20:01:10: Bronkiin: I thought you couldn't make it?
 * 20:01:19: SuperSajuuk: XDXD
 * 20:01:35: Cheatcodechamp: While we give a few minute to wait, take this time to read the moot rules if you are not versed in them, and vote on the featured image and quote.
 * 20:02:02: Cheatcodechamp: my thing only lasted three hours, turns out I can make it.
 * 20:02:09: Bronkiin: Are we voting on the quotes now?
 * 20:02:15: Bronkiin: and images?
 * 20:02:23: Cheatcodechamp: No, that is near the end and we have the pages for them now
 * 20:02:31: Bronkiin: Ok.
 * 20:02:43: G0LD3NF1RE: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Wiki:FeaturedImages#Nominations
 * 20:02:48: Bronkiin: One of the nominations is concept art, I thought it was only in-game uploads?
 * 20:02:48: G0LD3NF1RE: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Wiki:Quote_of_the_Week
 * 20:02:59: SuperSajuuk: concept art should be featured imo
 * 20:03:00: Cheatcodechamp: What item?
 * 20:03:03: Atvelonis: Should be screenshots only
 * 20:03:16: Bronkiin: I do like the quote btw. And yeh, screenshots.
 * 20:03:38: Cheatcodechamp: Atve, you can start when ready, lets not hold up to much for those who are late.
 * 20:04:07: Atvelonis: Ok, sure
 * 20:04:09: G0LD3NF1RE: Soo, everyone can't vote on those pages at the same time though?
 * 20:04:14: G0LD3NF1RE: Since it will cancel everyone elses?
 * 20:04:17: Bluesonic1: I nominated concept art after realising how much there was that was going unnoticed :P
 * 20:04:32: Flightmare: well if you're a source ninja you can post at the same time
 * 20:04:32: SuperSajuuk: @Blue: (Y) concept art is awesome to showcase imo :3
 * 20:04:41: Flightmare: you just have to take the diffs into account
 * 20:04:46: Flightmare: but it can't hurt much
 * 20:04:49: Bronkiin: But you could just pluck any concept art from the web
 * 20:05:06: Atvelonis: We can discuss that later
 * 20:05:11: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:05:12: Bluesonic1: I took it from the wiki's concept art category though...
 * 20:05:15: G0LD3NF1RE: Featured image should be a image made/taken by a user from THIS wiki IMO
 * 20:05:16: Bluesonic1: Ok
 * 20:05:25: Bronkiin: Atv. we ready?
 * 20:05:30: Atvelonis: Yep.
 * 20:06:03: Pie1997: WTF did I just watch
 * 20:06:06: Atvelonis: So a few months ago it was decided that all votes should have a 2/3 majority in order to pass. This extends to staff applications, votes here, MOTM/FA/GA votes, etc.
 * 20:06:18: Pie1997: Oops
 * 20:07:29: Atvelonis: This also extends to positions such as sysop and crat
 * 20:08:01: Bronkiin: ...
 * 20:08:14: Atvelonis: The people in said positions, however, are among the most prevalent in the community, and are essentially its face.
 * 20:08:42: ShawnCognitionCP: I thought the Moot was held later in the day.
 * 20:08:51: ~*LilithRayn*~: Shawn, Time moved
 * 20:09:13: ~*LilithRayn*~: It was a whole thing.
 * 20:09:17: Atvelonis: I wanted to ask you guys if you thought that the bar for positions such as administrator—a job which includes the tasks of many types of staff—and crat should be raised, and by how much.
 * 20:09:39: Atvelonis: My reasoning for this is that no one wants to have an administrator that 1/3 of the community hates
 * 20:09:44: Atvelonis: That just doesn't make sense
 * 20:09:47: Bronkiin: What is the optimal number of admins/crats
 * 20:10:05: Bronkiin: It should vary depending on how much the wiki needs new staff
 * 20:10:06: G0LD3NF1RE: I guess more the better, as long as all of them are good
 * 20:10:08: SuperSajuuk: generally it should not really matter how many have sysop. Though there should almost certainly be no more than 2-3 crats.
 * 20:10:10: Atvelonis: Well, I wasn't intending for this to be a way to make becoming one harder,
 * 20:10:28: SuperSajuuk: the crat flag doesn't actually do anything except manipulate user rights (eg granting/revoking sysop)
 * 20:10:29: Atvelonis: Rather a way to ensure that there are no contentious, barely-passing votes
 * 20:10:38: SuperSajuuk: so it doesn't really need a huge number of people to have, or its purpose becomes null
 * 20:10:39: Cheatcodechamp: It should be majority, but and we also need to look at the reasons why. trust is a major issue, but there are times people give no reason or we all know its a stupid reason to oppose.
 * 20:10:59: Atvelonis: I'm neutral on the topic I just wanted to see what you guys thought
 * 20:11:03: SuperSajuuk: personally, I think that all outcomes of any rights granting should be based on reasons.
 * 20:11:08: Atvelonis: Ik sajuuk
 * 20:11:08: Bronkiin: It should get harder to nominate an admin the more there are.
 * 20:11:30: Bronkiin: So 80% consensus if we have loads.
 * 20:11:30: ShawnCognitionCP: Not really.
 * 20:11:37: ShawnCognitionCP: We should just not be idiotic voters.
 * 20:11:39: KINMUNE: Hello there, Gaming Foxy!
 * 20:11:39: Atvelonis: hey gaming
 * 20:11:41: Flightmare: I don't really think choosing sysops is about voting as much as it is about finding the right arguments
 * 20:11:50: SuperSajuuk: @Flightmare: Agreed 100%
 * 20:11:57: ShawnCognitionCP: Which is pathetic.
 * 20:11:59: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 20:12:03: Flightmare: indeed
 * 20:12:03: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:12:08: Gaming Foxy: that is a cut out of Obi Wan scream
 * 20:12:11: ShawnCognitionCP: Honestly, fuck our whole democratic layout, as far as this goes.
 * 20:12:18: Cheatcodechamp: It should be at least two-thirds, but its not often the community has objected to a admin application.
 * 20:12:19: ShawnCognitionCP: Admins should be chosen, by other admins, based on ability.
 * 20:12:20: SuperSajuuk: the current system of putting people into positions isn't really the greasts
 * 20:12:22: Atvelonis: Keep it civil shawn
 * 20:12:22: ShawnCognitionCP: A vote is useless.
 * 20:12:23: Atvelonis: eh
 * 20:12:24: SuperSajuuk: *greatest
 * 20:12:29: ShawnCognitionCP: it doesn't matter what the average user thinks.
 * 20:12:40: ShawnCognitionCP: The average user doesn't even know how to see whom would be a good admin.
 * 20:12:46: SuperSajuuk: since people can apply themselves to have user rights, a forum board could be set up where users can apply
 * 20:12:57: SuperSajuuk: forums are a better threaded way to organise a discussion
 * 20:12:59: AdmiralRegis: That's quite true actually.
 * 20:13:02: Atvelonis: I kinda like the community choosing who the administrators are. If we get rid of the whole application process for administrators then won't it be like last year?
 * 20:13:08: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:13:11: ShawnCognitionCP: Switching to applications that administrators review, is far superior than a public vote.
 * 20:13:12: Atvelonis: "Corrupt admins," as a lot of you have put it
 * 20:13:18: SuperSajuuk: talkpages are just useless for trying to have reasoned discussion and end up becoming votes.
 * 20:13:18: Atvelonis: Ah
 * 20:13:19: ShawnCognitionCP: No.
 * 20:13:23: ShawnCognitionCP: That was caused -because- of the votes.
 * 20:13:27: ShawnCognitionCP: Same with bad chat mods.
 * 20:13:32: ShawnCognitionCP: People vote for whom they like.
 * 20:13:41: SuperSajuuk: votes are irrelevant
 * 20:13:46: AdmiralRegis: Isn't that how our country works as well Shawn?
 * 20:13:54: ShawnCognitionCP: Our country isn't a pure democracy.
 * 20:13:54: G0LD3NF1RE: A big part of being a mod is being respected by the rest of the community though
 * 20:13:55: SuperSajuuk: it's sort of why I was so supportive for removing votes
 * 20:13:59: SuperSajuuk: @Gold
 * 20:13:59: G0LD3NF1RE: So the being "liked" is a factor
 * 20:14:01: ShawnCognitionCP: It's a representative democracy.
 * 20:14:07: SuperSajuuk: respect isn't gained just by having a user flag
 * 20:14:17: G0LD3NF1RE: But you should ofc not vote people just because of the fact that you like em
 * 20:14:18: ShawnCognitionCP: It's not exactly a public vote, but rather a symbolic vote.
 * 20:14:22: Flightmare: I don't think voting is the way to go for this topic
 * 20:14:23: G0LD3NF1RE: Lol what Sajuuk
 * 20:14:26: ShawnCognitionCP: Shouldn't, but people do.
 * 20:14:27: G0LD3NF1RE: You misinterpreted me
 * 20:14:30: SuperSajuuk: for example, just because Flightmare is a sysop, doesn't mean that I should just auto-respect him :P
 * 20:14:31: SuperSajuuk: oh :P
 * 20:14:40: SuperSajuuk: but ofc, I always respect flightmare, because he's just awesome =P
 * 20:14:42: AdmiralRegis: I vote for someone if I know they done a lot and like them.
 * 20:15:00: SuperSajuuk: the thing is, there are times when a user does a lot of stuff "behind the scenes" that a lot of people won't understand fully
 * 20:15:06: G0LD3NF1RE: Im saying that a big factor to being a mod is being liked by the community, not that people should be chosen just because of the fact that they are liked. But that it's a big plus if they are :)
 * 20:15:18: ShawnCognitionCP: Reputation. Not friendships.
 * 20:15:19: SuperSajuuk: for example, coding and templates is not something the vast majority of users will understandg
 * 20:15:22: ShawnCognitionCP: People talk off site.
 * 20:15:22: RenzXVI: Maybe "voters" are supposed to just list pros and cons then staff review them?
 * 20:15:28: SuperSajuuk: imo
 * 20:15:37: ShawnCognitionCP: "Hey, we're friends."
 * 20:15:40: ShawnCognitionCP: I agree with Renz.
 * 20:15:44: SuperSajuuk: it should just be "I plan to make X a Y, discuss below why you think I should or should not do this"
 * 20:15:51: KINMUNE: Hello there, Atvelonis!
 * 20:15:51: SuperSajuuk: then, highlight the thread and see what happens
 * 20:15:53: ShawnCognitionCP: That's essentially a representative vote.
 * 20:15:54: Atvelonis: lag
 * 20:15:56: Atvelonis: sorry
 * 20:16:06: ~*LilithRayn*~: This might be a stupid question...but, is there a way to "blind vote?" Like, look over a review and stats of a nomination without knowing who it is then vote by that?
 * 20:16:09: G0LD3NF1RE: Well, Shawn, we already have the aruguement has to be made in the vote rule
 * 20:16:11: AdmiralRegis: Well being a Mod or Admin is a huge responsibility if anything.
 * 20:16:11: Flightmare: It would be nice if the support votes would actually link to diff pages :)
 * 20:16:15: SuperSajuuk: @Lilith: No.
 * 20:16:18: Bronkiin: Blind vote would be terrible
 * 20:16:23: SuperSajuuk: everything is visible on wiki's and I agree
 * 20:16:27: ShawnCognitionCP: Users say what they think with a vote, and admins use that vote to make a choice.
 * 20:16:28: SuperSajuuk: why can't we just get rid of votes
 * 20:16:28: Atvelonis: We're such a small community that that's impossible
 * 20:16:36: Flightmare: "User X proved he can handle situation Y as you can see on page Z"
 * 20:16:49: SuperSajuuk: they're important, but don't explain anything
 * 20:16:58: SuperSajuuk: all it does is increases a tally counter but doesn't make it clear cut
 * 20:17:02: Atvelonis: Shawn, it's just a way to quickly tally if it's supported or opposed. Obviously, the result is mostly based off of the reasoning.
 * 20:17:04: SuperSajuuk: To use an example that happened for me
 * 20:17:12: SuperSajuuk: I got majority support on another wiki for sysop
 * 20:17:12: Atvelonis: The votes are just there to explain exactly what your stance is
 * 20:17:17: Atvelonis: Because that can be unclear
 * 20:17:19: SuperSajuuk: but I got denied because of a couple of opposes
 * 20:17:28: RenzXVI: I still think people should just state pros and cons then staff makes the review and decision.
 * 20:17:31: SuperSajuuk: I think it was like 20 supports, 2 oppose or something
 * 20:17:33: ShawnCognitionCP: Anyways, I have to go now.
 * 20:17:37: Atvelonis: alright, bye shawn
 * 20:17:38: ShawnCognitionCP: You all have a splendid day.
 * 20:17:41: AdmiralRegis: See ya Shawn
 * 20:17:42: ~*LilithRayn*~: Bye Shawn o.
 * 20:17:44: G0LD3NF1RE: If a totally useless user wanted to become crat and got all supports, then he still wouldn't be made crat.
 * 20:17:47: Bluesonic1: What Renz said
 * 20:17:47: Flightmare: o.
 * 20:17:51: Bluesonic1: and bye Shawn!
 * 20:17:52: SuperSajuuk: personally, if we are granting rights to something, it should be based on discussion
 * 20:18:04: Bronkiin: Those who tend to vote are active enough on the wiki to know their stuff.
 * 20:18:12: SuperSajuuk: imo, things like rollback and patroller are not really something that should be done via a discussion. those rights are essentially basic things that are hardly abusable
 * 20:18:20: Bluesonic1: @Bronkiin: Not always
 * 20:18:24: SuperSajuuk: but things like sysop are abusable and they should have to go through a discussion to get the rights
 * 20:18:28: Bronkiin: Not always, but a majority.
 * 20:18:40: Bronkiin: Which is why Atv percentage suggestion works.
 * 20:18:46: SuperSajuuk: though I post support/oppose, I don't actually "like" using the voting templates
 * 20:19:07: Cheatcodechamp: Some times it shouldn't be up to discussion. Some editors should not be staff, at least that the time of application, and there are some people it dosn't matter how much we talk about it, people dont trust them.
 * 20:19:36: SuperSajuuk: staff isn't really the right word imo. everyone is essentially a "janitor"
 * 20:19:43: Bluesonic1: As well as this though, I still think the current admins should have the say as to whether the application passes or not
 * 20:19:49: SuperSajuuk: some users just happen to have extra tools to do more "janitorial" work than others
 * 20:19:50: Atvelonis: That's not relevant Sajuuk
 * 20:19:58: Atvelonis: We aren't discussing terminology
 * 20:20:07: SuperSajuuk: I'm not discussing terminology
 * 20:20:13: Bronkiin: I think the current system works. Voting is important, but common sense can still prevail.
 * 20:20:16: SuperSajuuk: just trying to give examples to explain my reasoning
 * 20:20:35: AdmiralRegis: So is there anyone we could for right now for a higher position?
 * 20:20:42: AdmiralRegis: vote*
 * 20:20:53: Bronkiin: Not atm.
 * 20:20:55: RenzXVI: no
 * 20:21:15: AdmiralRegis: When was the last time we could?
 * 20:21:16: SuperSajuuk: like for example. I would prefer more people got things like rollback in an easier manner (just rollback on its own to quickly revert vandalism, not rollback+custodian flags) since it's a bit of a loopy system
 * 20:21:22: Atvelonis: On chat or in general?
 * 20:21:29: Atvelonis: On chat, we don't vote for new staff, regis
 * 20:21:34: AdmiralRegis: In general.
 * 20:21:36: AdmiralRegis: Never chat.
 * 20:21:41: Atvelonis: Oh, anytime then
 * 20:21:45: Bluesonic1: @Sajuuk: No way, way too many people don't understand how it works
 * 20:21:49: Atvelonis: There are a lot of people who qualify for positions
 * 20:21:52: Cheatcodechamp: As of now we have no planed application.
 * 20:21:55: Atvelonis: But we shouldn't just promote anyone
 * 20:21:56: AdmiralRegis: I know that
 * 20:22:00: Flightmare: I'd like to see more yellow
 * 20:22:07: SuperSajuuk: @Bluesonic1: rollback is just a variant of undo.
 * 20:22:17: SuperSajuuk: if you can understand undo, you can obviously understand rollback
 * 20:22:17: Atvelonis: We're getting offtopic, let's talk about this later
 * 20:22:22: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:22:26: G0LD3NF1RE: I'd like to see more forum mods
 * 20:22:29: G0LD3NF1RE: And news team
 * 20:22:35: G0LD3NF1RE: Especially news team
 * 20:22:37: Cheatcodechamp: Until then lets focus on Atves point about voting
 * 20:22:39: Starkiller131: Rollback is bad ass Xd
 * 20:22:42: SuperSajuuk: @Gold: heh. forum mods is basically all done by Azura.
 * 20:22:43: SuperSajuuk: anyway
 * 20:22:50: SuperSajuuk: I can discuss that some other time outside of moot lol
 * 20:22:51: G0LD3NF1RE: Indeed :P
 * 20:23:07: AdmiralRegis: Alright. So lets start over.
 * 20:23:14: Bronkiin: So, do we make the required percentage of votes higher or not?
 * 20:23:15: Cheatcodechamp: Atve, was there any main point we should look at, vote on, anything?
 * 20:23:25: Atvelonis: So, what do we think about the percentages? They wouldn't be the backbone of the vote, just a precaution, sort of
 * 20:23:28: Flightmare: I'm neutral on raising the voting bar, I think the system itself needs changing.
 * 20:23:34: SuperSajuuk: I am with Flightmare on this.
 * 20:23:39: ~*LilithRayn*~: Agreed
 * 20:23:39: Atvelonis: We can talk about that
 * 20:23:43: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:23:47: Flightmare: Yes schedule for next week :P
 * 20:23:53: SuperSajuuk: the whole problem can be solved by changing how the system works. but that should be in a ct or next moot
 * 20:23:56: Bronkiin: We can raise the percentage, but common sense should prevail.
 * 20:23:57: RenzXVI: I think what I said earlier is what we need.
 * 20:24:06: Atvelonis: Let's talk about that next week or something
 * 20:24:10: SuperSajuuk: agree
 * 20:24:15: Atvelonis: So we're in agreement that it's ok how it is?
 * 20:24:24: Atvelonis: Ish?
 * 20:24:26: Bluesonic1: Yup
 * 20:24:29: Atvelonis: And that we'll discuss more later?
 * 20:24:29: Bronkiin: Yep.
 * 20:24:33: G0LD3NF1RE: Ok as for now atleast
 * 20:24:35: SuperSajuuk: yeah. keeping it current way is fine, it needs a lot more discussions.
 * 20:24:36: Flightmare: ok
 * 20:24:36: AdmiralRegis: Sure.
 * 20:24:48: SuperSajuuk: as it's basically a problem of the system in theory.
 * 20:24:50: Atvelonis: Alright. Moving on now.
 * 20:24:55: Atvelonis: Who's going next?
 * 20:25:01: SuperSajuuk: me, I guess? :P
 * 20:25:07: SuperSajuuk: unless anyone else has topics of interest?
 * 20:25:08: Cheatcodechamp: Sajuuk, you have a ton of items, lets get them done
 * 20:25:12: Flightmare: Perks!
 * 20:25:14: SuperSajuuk: I won't get through them all today
 * 20:25:21: SuperSajuuk: just wanted to dump them all down somewhere lol
 * 20:25:22: SuperSajuuk: anyway
 * 20:25:22: SuperSajuuk: yes
 * 20:25:26: SuperSajuuk: the skyrim perk pages
 * 20:25:30: Cheatcodechamp: Then why did you list them on the agenda for today?
 * 20:25:36: Cheatcodechamp: anyway, perks
 * 20:25:40: SuperSajuuk: I came across this:
 * 20:26:00: AdmiralRegis: What about them?
 * 20:26:03: SuperSajuuk: for some reason, there are a couple of redirects under that, a few actual articles, but the vast majority of perks don't have even a page or redirect
 * 20:26:22: Bronkiin: You suggesting kill the category? or fix it?
 * 20:26:37: SuperSajuuk: My opinion is that we should have a page for each and every one of the perks in base Skyrim, because they can be used for discussing the perk in detail, who it benefits (character type) and what it would lead to
 * 20:26:57: SuperSajuuk: atm, the only way to find a perk is if you know the skill tree and then searching the skill tree page to find a single row in a table
 * 20:27:03: Bronkiin: I see where you're coming from.
 * 20:27:08: Atvelonis: The character type thing gets a little offtopic from what we usually discuss on articles but the idea in general isn't bad
 * 20:27:09: Bluesonic1: I thought that was already the case?
 * 20:27:09: SuperSajuuk: which is bad imo, the information is essentially non-existent
 * 20:27:27: SuperSajuuk: @Blue: it's the fact the info is a bit minimalistic. it could be expanded
 * 20:27:37: Bronkiin: There are some without there own pages too,.
 * 20:27:54: Bronkiin: *their
 * 20:27:57: SuperSajuuk: @Atv: true, but some perks benefit certain character types than others, so it would be good, even if a trivia point, which character type a perk benefits
 * 20:28:06: ~*LilithRayn*~: I would find that very helpful ^_^
 * 20:28:08: Atvelonis: Vague character types, perhaps
 * 20:28:12: SuperSajuuk: for example, a mage is hardly about to use sneak perks.
 * 20:28:28: Bronkiin: I think it's a worthy project.
 * 20:28:28: SuperSajuuk: in terms of lore, because people can just mix and match their characters however they wish
 * 20:28:30: Atvelonis: e.g., "This perk would most benefit characters who prefer to use magic in combat"
 * 20:28:36: SuperSajuuk: yeah, that kind of thing
 * 20:28:47: Atvelonis: Alright, as long as we keep that relatively vague
 * 20:28:49: SuperSajuuk: just vaguely explaining that the perk is good for mages, but not a thief
 * 20:28:58: SuperSajuuk: yeah, I don't want it overdescribed lol
 * 20:29:06: SuperSajuuk: but yeah, I think pages for all perks would be a good idea (Y)
 * 20:29:06: Atvelonis: Alright that's reasonable actually
 * 20:29:12: Bronkiin: Vote?
 * 20:29:13: SuperSajuuk: we have a perks infobox apparently, should be used =P
 * 20:29:24: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, all in favor of expanding our perk articles?
 * 20:29:26: AdmiralRegis: I have an idea for that.
 * 20:29:29: G0LD3NF1RE: (support)
 * 20:29:29: Cheatcodechamp: Hold vote
 * 20:29:32: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 20:29:36: Cheatcodechamp: Admiral?
 * 20:29:44: Bluesonic1: (Neutral) I'm just not entirely convinced it's necessary
 * 20:29:49: Starkiller131: (Support)
 * 20:30:15: Cheatcodechamp: 3-1-0
 * 20:30:15: Bronkiin: (Support)
 * 20:30:20: Cheatcodechamp: 4-1-0
 * 20:30:23: I am Noir: (+)
 * 20:30:25: ~*LilithRayn*~: (support)
 * 20:30:27: Flightmare: (support) We have pages for nearly every individual topic
 * 20:30:29: SuperSajuuk: I'm not gonna vote on my own topic lol
 * 20:30:36: Cheatcodechamp: 7-1-0
 * 20:30:38: SuperSajuuk: but it would be a bit obvious that I support it :P
 * 20:30:49: Cheatcodechamp: Anybody else?
 * 20:31:08: Bronkiin: Admiral?
 * 20:31:10: AdmiralRegis: If we want to expand perks. We want pages for all pages, I suggest we have a clickable picture for each Perk Tree and such. Also I vote Up.
 * 20:31:23: Cheatcodechamp: Ok then, I will add that to the tasklisk.
 * 20:31:25: SuperSajuuk: an image map would be a nice thing to add actually.
 * 20:31:27: Cheatcodechamp: 8-1-0
 * 20:31:35: SuperSajuuk: I think it should be possible to pull it off with the imagemap code or something
 * 20:31:37: Bronkiin: @admiral, type support in brackets.
 * 20:31:40: AdmiralRegis: Heres an example
 * 20:31:46: Cheatcodechamp: the HP wiki has something like that, it looks cool but rather complex
 * 20:31:47: G0LD3NF1RE: Good idea Regis (y)
 * 20:31:49: Atvelonis: (y)
 * 20:31:52: Atvelonis: (+) that is
 * 20:31:54: AdmiralRegis: support my bad
 * 20:31:59: AdmiralRegis: [support]
 * 20:32:04: G0LD3NF1RE: ( support )
 * 20:32:12: AdmiralRegis: (support)
 * 20:32:18: Bronkiin: Yeah!
 * 20:32:21: Bronkiin: Right.
 * 20:32:22: AdmiralRegis: I been away from Wiki community for alwhile lol
 * 20:32:24: SuperSajuuk: rather complex yeah, but it's a great thing imo. another wiki does it, great for interactivity. we apparently have those maps on the bottom of some articles for skyrim (though I'm not sure if it does work now)
 * 20:32:26: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, besides the 3 already, all in favor of this idea?
 * 20:32:29: AdmiralRegis: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Planets
 * 20:32:36: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 20:32:38: AdmiralRegis: Not like this but you get the idea
 * 20:32:39: Atvelonis: I like it
 * 20:33:01: Cheatcodechamp: Admiral? do you have the skills to set something like that up?
 * 20:33:14: Flightmare: I know how to make an image map
 * 20:33:17: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 20:33:26: Flightmare: in a dark past :)
 * 20:33:27: Bronkiin: (+)
 * 20:33:28: Flightmare: I like the map idea
 * 20:33:29: SuperSajuuk: it's on Wikia or something =P
 * 20:33:36: AdmiralRegis: Its on all Wikias
 * 20:33:41: ~*LilithRayn*~: This is going to be awesome..lol
 * 20:33:44: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:33:44: SuperSajuuk: (+) for image maps for the skill tree to link to the perk pages
 * 20:33:44: Atvelonis: What are the votes now?
 * 20:33:46: Flightmare: TES had one to
 * 20:33:47: AdmiralRegis: You can see GTA Wikia. They have maps
 * 20:33:48: Flightmare: o
 * 20:33:51: SuperSajuuk: for the image map Atv
 * 20:33:58: Atvelonis: No who voted
 * 20:34:00: Bronkiin: 5-0-0
 * 20:34:13: Cheatcodechamp: 4-0 then, Flight seems to be able to do it so Ill let him have fun with that and leave it alone.
 * 20:34:15: AdmiralRegis: http://gta.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Maps
 * 20:34:20: Cheatcodechamp: *5-0
 * 20:34:21: SuperSajuuk: that special:maps sucks :P
 * 20:34:25: Flightmare: No, other kind of maps :)
 * 20:34:26: AdmiralRegis: Yes Interactive maps
 * 20:34:28: Atvelonis: 5-0? I count 4
 * 20:34:29: Starkiller131: God's phones suck Xd
 * 20:34:29: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, next item
 * 20:34:29: Atvelonis: wait
 * 20:34:37: Atvelonis: oh yeah 5
 * 20:34:39: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:34:40: SuperSajuuk: anyway, if that's all done... ?
 * 20:34:41: AdmiralRegis: Also another type
 * 20:34:47: Flightmare: and you simply give it coordinates and url's
 * 20:34:57: Atvelonis: So, 8-1-0 for the perks and 5-0-0 for the image map for perks
 * 20:35:03: Bronkiin: Yep
 * 20:35:06: Atvelonis: Alright, we can figure out the details later
 * 20:35:09: ~*LilithRayn*~: I also support the maps, sorry
 * 20:35:12: Cheatcodechamp: Please stay on subject, whats next? SS you doing another item or you done?
 * 20:35:15: SuperSajuuk: i can make a ct or sandbox page or something
 * 20:35:18: Atvelonis: 6-0-0 for the image map
 * 20:35:20: SuperSajuuk: okay, next item
 * 20:35:25: SuperSajuuk: motm requirements
 * 20:35:31: SuperSajuuk: currently it says you need 500 mainspace edits
 * 20:35:41: SuperSajuuk: this means that only people who actually edit mainspace can get it
 * 20:36:06: SuperSajuuk: from the recent nomination for Kora Stormblade, it feels as if the wiki is grasping to find more members who are mainspace editors
 * 20:36:10: Flightmare: I"ve seen this topic before
 * 20:36:24: Bronkiin: Hear him out.
 * 20:36:32: SuperSajuuk: therefore, I'm proposing the requirement gets changed so that people in other namespaces get a chance
 * 20:36:40: SuperSajuuk: eg, forums and blogs.
 * 20:37:00: AdmiralRegis: That is my job on most Wiki's
 * 20:37:02: Bronkiin: 500 edits in forums or blogs or something else as opposed to just namespace
 * 20:37:03: SuperSajuuk: though the blogs are somewhat a dead in the water aspect of the site, forums are pretty active
 * 20:37:15: SuperSajuuk: yeah, 500 edits in any one namespace, excluding talkpages.
 * 20:37:18: Bronkiin: Technically Azura doesnt qualify for MOTM!
 * 20:37:31: Bronkiin: I agree.
 * 20:37:32: SuperSajuuk: talkpages don't count as real contributions, unless it's seriously improving the pages in question imo
 * 20:37:46: Bluesonic1: Hmm yeah I think MOTM should be allowed to be more general, for example being able to be given to a good chat or forum mod (who is likely to have a low mainspace edit count due to the nature of their role). At the same time, Jarjar's awards idea can be expanded to reward users from the mainspace editing
 * 20:37:53: SuperSajuuk: unless the motm coverage gets expanded, there is virtually no way no more people can be selected.
 * 20:38:13: SuperSajuuk: we really need to reward those who don't just exclusively make edits in the mainspace imo.
 * 20:38:18: Atvelonis: How about a minimum of 500 edits in your respective namespace?
 * 20:38:21: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:38:23: SuperSajuuk: yeah that works
 * 20:38:25: G0LD3NF1RE: Yep
 * 20:38:30: SuperSajuuk: and then it can just be whatever namespace that might be
 * 20:38:31: Bluesonic1: This still leaves out chat mods though
 * 20:38:35: AdmiralRegis: Nice.
 * 20:38:40: SuperSajuuk: chat should be included in that, to a degree.
 * 20:38:50: Bronkiin: How do you include chat mods?
 * 20:38:54: RenzXVI: And regular people who edit across multiple types of namespace?
 * 20:39:01: Atvelonis: 500 hours in chat?
 * 20:39:02: Flightmare: 10k lines in KINMUNE?
 * 20:39:02: Cheatcodechamp: Our mods more or less edit, its rare to not have a mod edit something.
 * 20:39:03: Atvelonis: lolno
 * 20:39:09: Bluesonic1: Perhaps the edit count can be lower if nominating someone for a chat based award?
 * 20:39:09: Starkiller131: If they edit . Assume Xd
 * 20:39:28: Bronkiin: But, we would have to follow the limit if we were to change it.
 * 20:39:29: KINMUNE: Hello there, Dark brotherhood killed my child!
 * 20:39:37: Bronkiin: Otherwise no point in making any change!
 * 20:39:43: Atvelonis: 90 consecutive days (give or take) of being on chat?
 * 20:39:44: SuperSajuuk: @CCC: it's true, but the chat mods are generally there to mod chat.when i became chat mod, I barely had the required edits, but got the rights anyway
 * 20:39:46: Bluesonic1: You can set an exception
 * 20:39:52: Dark brotherhood killed my child: Hey guys, me again, need help again :D
 * 20:40:04: G0LD3NF1RE: Welcome back Dark brotherhood killed my child, we are having a moot at the moment, so please PM me your question while they continue.
 * 20:40:06: G0LD3NF1RE: Or Atve
 * 20:40:10: AdmiralRegis: I don't think I can stay in chat 90 days 24/7
 * 20:40:12: Starkiller131: I was Sajuuk Xd
 * 20:40:15: Atvelonis: Not 24/7
 * 20:40:19: Atvelonis: But come on every day
 * 20:40:19: SuperSajuuk: nah, let's not count time in chat
 * 20:40:22: AdmiralRegis: Easy
 * 20:40:22: Atvelonis: Ok ok
 * 20:40:23: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, back to point
 * 20:40:26: Bronkiin: Vote?
 * 20:40:30: AdmiralRegis: Darn...
 * 20:40:32: Atvelonis: Wait
 * 20:40:36: Bronkiin: Waiting
 * 20:40:41: Cheatcodechamp: All in favor of adapting the rule to 500 positive edits that benefit the wiki?
 * 20:40:42: G0LD3NF1RE: But i think chat mod MOTM should be more focused on helpfulness in chat, rather than how much time they spend here.
 * 20:40:43: Bluesonic1: So then what do people think of my compromise for chat based votes?
 * 20:40:45: Atvelonis: We still need to figure out something about chat
 * 20:40:46: G0LD3NF1RE: But it's hard to measure
 * 20:40:50: Atvelonis: wait wait
 * 20:40:55: Bronkiin: waiting
 * 20:40:56: Cheatcodechamp: sorry
 * 20:41:05: ~*LilithRayn*~: (support)
 * 20:41:10: AdmiralRegis: 500 seems like a decent amount. But
 * 20:41:13: SuperSajuuk: I think Gold's idea works. Being helpful in chat could include helping chat mods to spot violations
 * 20:41:24: Cheatcodechamp: You can't measure it, its not logged like everything else.
 * 20:41:24: SuperSajuuk: @Admiral: It's actually very easy to get 500 edits in forums xD
 * 20:41:31: AdmiralRegis: Agreed with SS.
 * 20:41:35: Bluesonic1: What CCC said
 * 20:41:36: G0LD3NF1RE: Yeah, that's the problem CCC
 * 20:41:37: SuperSajuuk: though as CCC said, the problem is that, without kinmune, chat is not logged
 * 20:41:45: AdmiralRegis: Thats what I was about to bring up SS
 * 20:41:48: SuperSajuuk: so there is no way to actually "see" what happened
 * 20:41:55: Bronkiin: I think we can just use reason when it comes to chat mods.
 * 20:42:01: SuperSajuuk: if Kinmune can continue its daily logging of chat, I would be down with chat being included
 * 20:42:05: ~*LilithRayn*~: Picking someone from chat that way would end up having to be based on everyone's opinion.
 * 20:42:08: AdmiralRegis: You know you can see what people edit right?
 * 20:42:14: Bronkiin: We don't need to quantify it if they're obviously really good.
 * 20:42:24: SuperSajuuk: if needed, we can re-discuss how to reward for those chat-only users
 * 20:42:29: Atvelonis: I suppose chat is a different matter
 * 20:42:36: SuperSajuuk: I just really don't want to see another Kora Stormblade-like nomination for motm xD
 * 20:42:46: Atvelonis: How about for chat users we just stick with their merit rather than edit count
 * 20:42:50: Atvelonis: or whatever count
 * 20:42:50: SuperSajuuk: and then end up being voted by users who don't even edit xD
 * 20:42:52: SuperSajuuk: yeah, I agree
 * 20:42:55: Bronkiin: @Atv yes, yes
 * 20:42:56: SuperSajuuk: rather than edit count, just merit
 * 20:42:57: ~*LilithRayn*~: I agree.
 * 20:42:57: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, all in favor if it becoming "500 positive edits to the wiki"
 * 20:42:59: G0LD3NF1RE: Suppose that's the easiest way
 * 20:43:04: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 20:43:13: Bluesonic1: Wait
 * 20:43:15: AdmiralRegis: (support)
 * 20:43:15: RenzXVI: Good edits.
 * 20:43:17: Bronkiin: @CCC, in their respective namespace
 * 20:43:20: Starkiller131: (Support)
 * 20:43:26: Bluesonic1: This still brings up an issue that SS has highlighted in the past
 * 20:43:29: SuperSajuuk: basically, an edit that improves the wiki. god dammit xD
 * 20:43:30: Cheatcodechamp: No RP, no Talk page, no personal profile
 * 20:43:34: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:43:43: SuperSajuuk: well RP is pretty much something that should be closed down and moved 100% to the sandbox lol
 * 20:43:49: Bronkiin: Wait.
 * 20:43:52: Bluesonic1: Even if the edit is in the mainspace, is it deemed "worthy"
 * 20:43:52: Starkiller131: True Xd
 * 20:43:53: AdmiralRegis: That means I have much to do to improve this Wiki.
 * 20:43:57: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 20:43:59: Bronkiin: It should be 500 edits in one namespace
 * 20:44:03: Bronkiin: Not accross the wiki
 * 20:44:05: Cheatcodechamp: different matter sajuuk.
 * 20:44:06: Atvelonis: If it wasn't reverted, it is worthy
 * 20:44:07: Atvelonis: Basically
 * 20:44:16: Bluesonic1: I use Kora Stormblade's example
 * 20:44:20: RenzXVI: But what about people who are helpful all around?
 * 20:44:24: Cheatcodechamp: 6-0
 * 20:44:27: AdmiralRegis: It be better across. Not in 1.
 * 20:44:37: Starkiller131: Agreed
 * 20:44:37: Bronkiin: We need to reclarify the question.
 * 20:44:40: Bluesonic1: Not sure if she reached 500 or not, but even if she did it was highlighted that the edits were mostly minor, despite being in the mainspace
 * 20:44:46: Bluesonic1: So we still have the same problem
 * 20:44:52: Bronkiin: SS said 500 in a particular area.
 * 20:44:52: Starkiller131: All edits count imo
 * 20:44:55: Bronkiin: Not accross the wiki
 * 20:45:00: Bluesonic1: An edit count cap isn't going to solve this
 * 20:45:03: Bronkiin: Otherwise that lowers the qualification
 * 20:45:06: Bronkiin: It's not a cap.
 * 20:45:08: SuperSajuuk: hmmm
 * 20:45:12: Bluesonic1: Bronkiin
 * 20:45:19: Bronkiin: Yep
 * 20:45:22: AdmiralRegis: This is very difficult.
 * 20:45:27: Bronkiin: ...
 * 20:45:30: SuperSajuuk: it should be 500 positive edits to the wiki in one namespace (rather than 500 edits in just mainspace or 500 edits across the whole wiki).
 * 20:45:33: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:45:35: Bluesonic1: Even if all the edits were in the mainspace, as it already happened, people still pointed out that the edits were trivial
 * 20:45:36: SuperSajuuk: maybe a ct for this one?
 * 20:45:37: RenzXVI: Special:Editcount/Kora Stormblade
 * 20:45:43: SuperSajuuk: it's a difficult one to sort out in moot
 * 20:45:47: SuperSajuuk: and there's apparently only 15 mins left :/
 * 20:45:48: Bronkiin: No, I reckon we can do it here.
 * 20:45:52: Bronkiin: We're almost done.
 * 20:45:54: Atvelonis: an edit is an edit, no matter how small
 * 20:45:56: Bronkiin: On this vote
 * 20:45:58: Atvelonis: 500 in a particular namespace
 * 20:46:01: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:46:08: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:46:09: SuperSajuuk: I think if we go with 500 in one namespace, we can take it from there
 * 20:46:16: Bronkiin: Vote?
 * 20:46:16: SuperSajuuk: @CCC: oh, right =P
 * 20:46:21: Bronkiin: (+)
 * 20:46:24: SuperSajuuk: if needed, we can rediscuss if problems arise :3
 * 20:46:30: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 20:46:35: AdmiralRegis: We can re-discuss this
 * 20:46:42: Bronkiin: Thanks.
 * 20:46:48: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 20:46:52: Atvelonis: 3-0-0
 * 20:46:52: ~*LilithRayn*~: (support)
 * 20:46:57: G0LD3NF1RE: (support)
 * 20:46:58: Bluesonic1: Are we then voting this to go through, or simply that it will be a prelim to a bigger discussion later?
 * 20:47:07: Bronkiin: That it will go through
 * 20:47:08: Atvelonis: for this to go through
 * 20:47:10: Atvelonis: 5-0-0
 * 20:47:13: AdmiralRegis: I believe for a bigger go though
 * 20:47:18: AdmiralRegis: rough
 * 20:47:22: Starkiller131: (Support)
 * 20:47:25: AdmiralRegis: (support)
 * 20:47:28: Bluesonic1: (Neutral) It's a good start but it doesn't really solve the issue
 * 20:47:32: Atvelonis: 7-1-0
 * 20:47:39: SuperSajuuk: okay, back.
 * 20:47:43: Bronkiin: Any more votes?
 * 20:47:47: AdmiralRegis: Thats why we will re0discuss next time.
 * 20:47:48: Atvelonis: Anyone else?
 * 20:47:50: Cheatcodechamp: If it dosn't solve anything then why are we going for it.
 * 20:48:00: Atvelonis: It makes it a little better
 * 20:48:03: Atvelonis: It's a start
 * 20:48:03: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:48:07: Atvelonis: better than nothing at all
 * 20:48:08: Bluesonic1: @Admiral: They said the vote was for this to go through, not rediscuss later
 * 20:48:09: AdmiralRegis: Because Brokiin keeps wanting us to vote lol
 * 20:48:10: G0LD3NF1RE: Progressive improvement
 * 20:48:17: SuperSajuuk: what Gold said
 * 20:48:20: SuperSajuuk: we start small
 * 20:48:23: SuperSajuuk: then improve it over time
 * 20:48:28: SuperSajuuk: rather than making a huge change all at once
 * 20:48:30: Atvelonis: So what's your vote saj?
 * 20:48:31: SuperSajuuk: baby steps imo ;)
 * 20:48:33: Bluesonic1: Yeah, so small we still have the same issues anyway...
 * 20:48:33: ~*LilithRayn*~: It should help narrow down what else needs to be fixed as well. ^_^
 * 20:48:38: SuperSajuuk: (+) ofc ;)
 * 20:48:39: Atvelonis: 8-1-0
 * 20:48:50: AdmiralRegis: @Bluesonic1 Pfft... Well if it doesn't work we have no choice to talk about it more
 * 20:48:57: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 20:49:13: SuperSajuuk: things can be rediscussed again and again if they need be. Just don't want to hog up the moot with just this xD
 * 20:49:18: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:49:24: AdmiralRegis: Alright we're done with that?
 * 20:49:27: Bluesonic1: Then why vote on passing it??
 * 20:49:33: Bronkiin: But this small changes passes, by the looks of it.
 * 20:49:50: Atvelonis: Yes. The vote passes 8-1-0. We WILL discuss it more later.
 * 20:49:56: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 20:49:59: SuperSajuuk: okay, next topic then ?
 * 20:50:05: AdmiralRegis: Yes please.
 * 20:50:16: SuperSajuuk: okay, I added this as a last minute item (as in, 2 or so hours before moot)
 * 20:50:33: SuperSajuuk: I have sometimes gone onto pages on the wiki where the map image has been drawn on
 * 20:50:52: SuperSajuuk: for example, text being added next to map icons to state the name of the town or city
 * 20:50:57: Atvelonis: Can you provide some examples?
 * 20:51:01: Atvelonis: Of images?
 * 20:51:03: Bluesonic1: (example Windhelm)
 * 20:51:22: SuperSajuuk: these images are actually illegal and not fair use. fair use only applies when you don't edit it
 * 20:51:32: Bluesonic1: Oops I meant to link to the skyrim one, sorry :P
 * 20:51:38: SuperSajuuk: if you start editing the picture, it becomes fanart and therefore, fair use has no bearing
 * 20:51:50: Atvelonis: can you give me a link to that law
 * 20:51:59: Bluesonic1: Fair use can still apply to fan art
 * 20:52:01: SuperSajuuk: well fair use is a huge document lol
 * 20:52:09: AdmiralRegis: Well
 * 20:52:10: SuperSajuuk: @Blue: depends on how much is edited.
 * 20:52:10: Atvelonis: I know fair use obviously but I can ctrl+f that part
 * 20:52:21: SuperSajuuk: generally, my opinion is that picture should be clean and free of any kind of edits
 * 20:52:23: Cheatcodechamp: So what are you suggesting we do.
 * 20:52:30: Bronkiin: Weed them out?
 * 20:52:31: Bluesonic1: No, us using fair use :P you're thinking of the artist I think
 * 20:52:40: AdmiralRegis: So your saying you want the image as it was SS?
 * 20:52:44: KINMUNE: Hello there, Macdog5150!
 * 20:52:46: AdmiralRegis: I understand that.
 * 20:52:47: SuperSajuuk: we do the same for character images (aka 600x1000, no mods anything), so the same should apply equally to all images
 * 20:52:56: Bronkiin: Understood
 * 20:53:03: AdmiralRegis: Alright.
 * 20:53:04: SuperSajuuk: for example, if I were to upload a picture where the font was different, it would be deleted because it's modded text
 * 20:53:12: Bronkiin: I think consistency is a good idea
 * 20:53:16: SuperSajuuk: adding text to the page isn't any different, since you have "modded" the image
 * 20:53:18: Bluesonic1: It's not an edited screenshot, it's a full art piece, so the copyright is held by the artist and we have fair use on it
 * 20:53:28: Atvelonis: I guess
 * 20:53:33: Bluesonic1: Thaaaat aside, I agree that I prefer in-game map shots over this stuff
 * 20:53:36: SuperSajuuk: well, no. because the labels in the lost knife map I linked were added on
 * 20:53:43: Bluesonic1: Oh
 * 20:53:45: AdmiralRegis: I work at a Wiki where we get official images from the company of the game ourselves.
 * 20:53:50: Bluesonic1: Windhelm one is different
 * 20:53:50: Bronkiin: Ok
 * 20:53:57: Starkiller131: I gtg
 * 20:54:00: AdmiralRegis: The Map you say on Lost Knife Cave indeed may be so.
 * 20:54:01: SuperSajuuk: compare the text of the label for where the cursor is over the cave, to all the other text on the image
 * 20:54:11: ~*LilithRayn*~: o. Bye star
 * 20:54:19: Bluesonic1: Yeah the lost knife cave one should definitely go
 * 20:54:19: Atvelonis: bye star
 * 20:54:24: AdmiralRegis: Are you saying this should be cleaned up and replaced?
 * 20:54:27: Bluesonic1: It also looks extremely unprofessional
 * 20:54:31: Atvelonis: Yeah I suppose
 * 20:54:37: AdmiralRegis: I reall yhate that font on there as well.
 * 20:54:38: SuperSajuuk: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/File:Fort_amol_map.jpg < this is what all the maps should be like
 * 20:54:40: Bronkiin: So what's the motion?
 * 20:54:49: Atvelonis: why is that so misty
 * 20:54:50: Atvelonis: wat
 * 20:54:52: Cheatcodechamp: If the image breaks our policy, why are we talking about it. If its wrong fix it.
 * 20:54:52: SuperSajuuk: just a crop of the map area with the in-game cursor over the icon of interest
 * 20:54:56: Bluesonic1: ^
 * 20:55:04: SuperSajuuk: @CCC: simply because it's never been noticed
 * 20:55:05: AdmiralRegis: Very minmal
 * 20:55:14: SuperSajuuk: I don't think the policy goes into detail about it
 * 20:55:17: SuperSajuuk: if it does, I never noticed it.
 * 20:55:23: Bluesonic1: What about Windhelm's case?
 * 20:55:24: AdmiralRegis: I agree. Not may people would see this SS.
 * 20:55:25: Atvelonis: I haven't seen anything about this in our policy
 * 20:55:30: Bluesonic1: Windhelm (Skyrim)
 * 20:55:33: Bluesonic1: grrr
 * 20:55:36: AdmiralRegis: I'll check
 * 20:55:46: SuperSajuuk: it's worse because it's so random and hard to find pages with images like the lost knife example
 * 20:55:51: Atvelonis: that's in the game guide blue
 * 20:55:54: Flightmare: https://tldrlegal.com/license/fair-license
 * 20:55:55: Atvelonis: the official game guide
 * 20:55:56: Atvelonis: iirc
 * 20:56:00: AdmiralRegis: Thats offical
 * 20:56:01: SuperSajuuk: I come across them extremely randomly.
 * 20:56:11: Bronkiin: So what are we discussing?
 * 20:56:11: Bluesonic1: I meant for consistency Atvel :P
 * 20:56:28: AdmiralRegis: Alright then SS whats your idea again then?
 * 20:56:32: Bronkiin: Whether to remove them, if the policy needs changing?
 * 20:56:37: Bluesonic1: The others apart from inconsistency, may or may not break fair use type thing
 * 20:56:42: Atvelonis: That one can stay blue I think
 * 20:56:43: Flightmare: How dit that game guide picture survive?
 * 20:56:45: SuperSajuuk: @Bronkiin: Lost Knife Cave (Skyrim) < see the map image on this page. it should be replaced with an image without all the text
 * 20:56:49: Atvelonis: I've no idea
 * 20:56:52: SuperSajuuk: like in the fort amol example
 * 20:56:53: Flightmare: It should have been deleted years ago
 * 20:56:57: Atvelonis: Why flight?
 * 20:57:04: Flightmare: It is copyrighted
 * 20:57:14: Flightmare: And there was a claim too
 * 20:57:21: SuperSajuuk: oh god... O_o
 * 20:57:23: Bluesonic1: o__0
 * 20:57:27: ~*LilithRayn*~: 0.0
 * 20:57:27: AdmiralRegis: And we aren't allowed to use it?
 * 20:57:28: SuperSajuuk: if it's copyrighted, it needs to go and be replaced
 * 20:57:36: Atvelonis: ffs
 * 20:57:37: Flightmare: Yeah we originally planned
 * 20:57:40: AdmiralRegis: Flight
 * 20:57:46: Flightmare: someone would draw custom ones
 * 20:57:54: Bronkiin: Is there something we can vote on here or are we just pointing out an issue?
 * 20:57:59: AdmiralRegis: What if its copyrighted but allowed by Bethsda for Wiki use?
 * 20:58:16: SuperSajuuk: @Bron: we can vote on getting rid of the bad images for good and creating consistency across the wiki
 * 20:58:20: Atvelonis: I'm still a little unclear on why we're allowed to use images from games but not from guides
 * 20:58:30: Flightmare: I think the game guide was written by a 3rd party
 * 20:58:30: Atvelonis: Aren't they both covered by fair use?
 * 20:58:34: Atvelonis: ooooh
 * 20:58:38: Atvelonis: lemme check
 * 20:58:40: Atvelonis: I have it
 * 20:58:50: AdmiralRegis: But weren't they sponsored to write the game as many are?
 * 20:58:52: Bluesonic1: It should still fall under fair use for us though?
 * 20:58:58: AdmiralRegis: Yes.
 * 20:59:05: SuperSajuuk: the 3rd party may have an agreement on the images though
 * 20:59:08: Atvelonis: It says bethesda on the cover
 * 20:59:09: Cheatcodechamp: If it is something that needs to be done we do not need to vote. upload a new version to fix it.
 * 20:59:12: Atvelonis: Says "Prima" too
 * 20:59:13: AdmiralRegis: We aren't directly stealing the picture.
 * 20:59:17: Atvelonis: Which I guess is the company?
 * 20:59:21: Flightmare: Yeah this is not voting material
 * 20:59:22: Bronkiin: @CCC: I agree
 * 20:59:23: SuperSajuuk: Prima would be the company iirc
 * 20:59:30: AdmiralRegis: Prima writes many guides for games.
 * 20:59:35: SuperSajuuk: I just wanted to bring it up at the moot to get widest opinion =P
 * 20:59:44: SuperSajuuk: though I cannot help in that regard for reasons some already know lol
 * 20:59:46: Bluesonic1: Just replace it lol
 * 21:00:00: AdmiralRegis: But easy replacement if needed.
 * 21:00:14: SuperSajuuk: it's easy enough to do it quickly
 * 21:00:15: AdmiralRegis: Take picture and replace it with new one that suits rules.
 * 21:00:15: Cheatcodechamp: If this is not voting material then talking about it takes time from issues we can vote on. We now how to handle this already.
 * 21:00:22: Atvelonis: ok
 * 21:00:23: Atvelonis: okok
 * 21:00:37: Atvelonis: We'll handle that then as soon as possible.
 * 21:00:39: Flightmare: Yes all save it to your desktop while you can, lets proceed to next topic :)
 * 21:00:45: Bronkiin: ^
 * 21:00:47: SuperSajuuk: just one last topic and I'll be done
 * 21:00:50: SuperSajuuk: Wikipedia
 * 21:00:51: SuperSajuuk: ^ this
 * 21:00:55: Atvelonis: Wait we didn't vote?
 * 21:01:05: Atvelonis: not the copyright
 * 21:01:07: Atvelonis: oh
 * 21:01:08: AdmiralRegis: Which one?
 * 21:01:09: Atvelonis: yeah
 * 21:01:11: Atvelonis: nvm
 * 21:01:24: RenzXVI: I like it.
 * 21:01:24: SuperSajuuk: it states absolutely nothing that people don't already know
 * 21:01:25: Bluesonic1: Yeah it really is lol
 * 21:01:33: AdmiralRegis: Just for laughs
 * 21:01:34: Atvelonis: I dunno I think it's important enough
 * 21:01:37: G0LD3NF1RE: It doesn't hurt the wiki in any way
 * 21:01:45: Bronkiin: So the question is Do we removes the Wikipedia page? Ok, I think it's uneccessary
 * 21:01:48: Atvelonis: no, sajuuk
 * 21:01:48: SuperSajuuk: the problem is
 * 21:01:50: Atvelonis: not everyone knows that
 * 21:01:50: AdmiralRegis: It helps us reference with things inside the game.
 * 21:02:01: G0LD3NF1RE: I see no point in removing it, as wikipedia was a big part for Wikia, and Wikia is a huge part for us.
 * 21:02:07: Flightmare: Yes should be moved
 * 21:02:09: Atvelonis: I like having some sort of testament to our parent wiki
 * 21:02:11: Bronkiin: Put it in Atv's sandbox
 * 21:02:14: KINMUNE: Hello there, Reva Rio!
 * 21:02:15: Atvelonis: But having it in the mainspace is a little off
 * 21:02:19: Atvelonis: if you want, sure?
 * 21:02:21: Bronkiin: The Wiki's wiki is where it belongs
 * 21:02:22: Atvelonis: hey reva
 * 21:02:25: Cheatcodechamp: Dosnt matter if people "know it" or not, if its something that we need to have.
 * 21:02:26: Reva Rio: guys what did i miss?
 * 21:02:27: SuperSajuuk: but every wiki on Wikia was a parent to Wikipedia lol
 * 21:02:36: AdmiralRegis: Very true.
 * 21:02:36: Cheatcodechamp: Not everybody knows our origin or history.
 * 21:02:39: Flightmare: I think the page can stay, just move it to Project:
 * 21:02:50: Atvelonis: we talked about voting percentages for sysops/crats and some problems with copyrighted images reva
 * 21:02:51: AdmiralRegis: Just move it. No need to remove it.
 * 21:02:53: Bronkiin: Move it to Atv's sandbox. Wikis wiki
 * 21:02:58: Cheatcodechamp: Its fine where it is. If anything it needs to be expanded
 * 21:02:59: Bluesonic1: @Reva Rio: In a moot right now
 * 21:03:03: SuperSajuuk: CCC: with what?
 * 21:03:05: Atvelonis: and MOTm
 * 21:03:05: G0LD3NF1RE: Removing it would be silly imo, moving it is alright by me
 * 21:03:06: Atvelonis: *MOTM
 * 21:03:19: Atvelonis: Move it where though?
 * 21:03:20: SuperSajuuk: what exactly can be said that isn't unique to every other wiki on Wikia?
 * 21:03:21: Bronkiin: I think it should be moved.
 * 21:03:23: Flightmare: Project
 * 21:03:28: Bronkiin: @Atv: The Wiki's wiki
 * 21:03:29: Atvelonis: To "The Elder Scrolls Wiki" namespace?
 * 21:03:31: Reva Rio: @bluesonic yes i am aware
 * 21:03:32: Flightmare: Yes
 * 21:03:35: Flightmare: that is project :)
 * 21:03:49: ~*LilithRayn*~: Sajuuk, what is it that you want to do?
 * 21:03:52: SuperSajuuk: if it gets moved, then it needs to say more than just the obvious
 * 21:04:06: Atvelonis: That's a different topic
 * 21:04:10: Atvelonis: Let's stay on topic here
 * 21:04:12: Bronkiin: Move/Change/delete the wikipedia page, Rayn
 * 21:04:17: SuperSajuuk: I would say it's related Atv.
 * 21:04:17: G0LD3NF1RE: You can update it with more good info if you have any Sajuuk :D
 * 21:04:33: Atvelonis: Do we want to move it to the Project namespace (like TES:Administrators, TES:Moot, etc.) or to the wikis wiki
 * 21:04:36: G0LD3NF1RE: Then i guess it has to stay obvious
 * 21:04:41: Bronkiin: Wiki's wiki.
 * 21:04:45: SuperSajuuk: then there is no real point in the page lol
 * 21:04:48: Cheatcodechamp: Then lets start with what you said first. All in favor of deleting the article?
 * 21:04:55: Atvelonis: (-) I like it
 * 21:04:56: SuperSajuuk: I don't mind if this is opposed lol
 * 21:04:58: G0LD3NF1RE: (oppose)
 * 21:05:00: ~*LilithRayn*~: (negative)
 * 21:05:05: AdmiralRegis: (oppose)
 * 21:05:06: Atvelonis: ( - ) lilith
 * 21:05:06: ~*LilithRayn*~: oops lol
 * 21:05:06: Bronkiin: Neutral
 * 21:05:11: AdmiralRegis: ( oppose )
 * 21:05:12: ~*LilithRayn*~: (-)
 * 21:05:19: I am Noir: (=)
 * 21:05:21: Flightmare: (Neutral)
 * 21:05:23: Bronkiin: (Neutral)
 * 21:05:24: Starkiller131: Oppose)
 * 21:05:27: SuperSajuuk: lol, mostly all neutrals and opposes
 * 21:05:29: Bronkiin: ^Lol
 * 21:05:30: Starkiller131: Damn iti
 * 21:05:33: ~*LilithRayn*~: ^_-
 * 21:05:38: Atvelonis: 0-4-4
 * 21:05:51: Bronkiin: Vote on moving it?
 * 21:05:57: SuperSajuuk: I don't think that's a majority in this one. talkpage could be useful on it imo
 * 21:06:03: AdmiralRegis: 0-4-5 you mean?
 * 21:06:13: SuperSajuuk: it could be discussed further in the talkpage if need be I guess.
 * 21:06:21: Atvelonis: yes
 * 21:06:24: Atvelonis: 0-4-5
 * 21:06:27: Atvelonis: my bad
 * 21:06:29: Cheatcodechamp: So it stays
 * 21:06:31: AdmiralRegis: Np
 * 21:06:39: Atvelonis: It stays then
 * 21:06:39: Bronkiin: Vote on moving it?
 * 21:06:42: Bronkiin: Atv?
 * 21:06:44: AdmiralRegis: Always here for ya Atve.
 * 21:06:51: Atvelonis: So it stays on the wiki somewhere, but where?
 * 21:06:59: AdmiralRegis: Project?
 * 21:07:02: G0LD3NF1RE: Vote on being moved to Project?
 * 21:07:03: SuperSajuuk: at best, it could just be subsumed into Project:About
 * 21:07:04: Bluesonic1: Project:
 * 21:07:09: Flightmare: (Support)
 * 21:07:09: Bronkiin: Sorry, what is project?
 * 21:07:10: Atvelonis: I'd rather have it moved to its own project page
 * 21:07:10: SuperSajuuk: since it is "about" the wiki
 * 21:07:13: Atvelonis: TES
 * 21:07:15: Atvelonis: TES:A
 * 21:07:20: Cheatcodechamp: Project:Moot
 * 21:07:23: Atvelonis: TES, The Elder Scrolls Wiki, Project, same thing
 * 21:07:29: SuperSajuuk: @Bron: The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot
 * 21:07:33: Atvelonis: It's the prefix for policy pages and whatnot
 * 21:07:33: AdmiralRegis: Yes I agree
 * 21:07:39: SuperSajuuk: Project is just a special namespace for quick linking to there
 * 21:07:45: Atvelonis: So the vote is to move it to its own project page:
 * 21:07:48: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:07:49: Starkiller131: (Support)
 * 21:07:54: Atvelonis: 3-0-0
 * 21:07:59: SuperSajuuk: how do you do neutral?
 * 21:08:01: Cheatcodechamp: It shouldn't just be merged. Our history is important and having its own page is the better option
 * 21:08:03: RenzXVI: =
 * 21:08:03: Bronkiin: (Neutral)
 * 21:08:07: ~*LilithRayn*~: (neutral)
 * 21:08:07: Bluesonic1: ( Neutral )
 * 21:08:09: G0LD3NF1RE: (=)
 * 21:08:10: AdmiralRegis: lol
 * 21:08:11: Bluesonic1: To Sajuuk
 * 21:08:16: Bluesonic1: My vote is still support :P
 * 21:08:18: Atvelonis: 6-3-1 then?
 * 21:08:19: Bronkiin: I don't really understand where it's going.
 * 21:08:21: SuperSajuuk: (=) Because it doesn't really explain anything
 * 21:08:26: Atvelonis: It's going to have a prefix before it bron
 * 21:08:28: SuperSajuuk: @CCC: you are misunderstanding the point.
 * 21:08:39: Bronkiin: Oh Ok
 * 21:08:40: SuperSajuuk: literally all the big wiki's on Wikia were created for just the same reason.
 * 21:08:42: Atvelonis: It'll be The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Wikipedia rather than just Wikipedia
 * 21:08:58: Atvelonis: Are you changing your vote then bron?
 * 21:09:03: AdmiralRegis: It be nice to have it in its own little area.
 * 21:09:07: Bronkiin: I'll keep it as it is.
 * 21:09:15: Bronkiin: I think the Wiki's history is a better place for it
 * 21:09:22: Cheatcodechamp: I get that sajuuk, I have no misunderstandings. Just because all the wiki's have it changes nothing
 * 21:09:26: Atvelonis: 6-4-0
 * 21:09:40: Cheatcodechamp: Next item
 * 21:09:45: Bronkiin: So it passes?
 * 21:09:47: Atvelonis: Yeah
 * 21:09:50: SuperSajuuk: @CCC: I'm not saying it does, I'm just saying that this wiki being created as an offspring to wikipedia isn't new or unique
 * 21:09:50: SuperSajuuk: anyway
 * 21:09:54: AdmiralRegis: Also, also thing for SS just because not all Wikis have Wikipedia as page doesn't change that fact that we have it.
 * 21:09:54: Bronkiin: Shall I go btw?
 * 21:10:01: Starkiller131: Thank God Xdg
 * 21:10:02: Atvelonis: Does sajuuk have any other topics?
 * 21:10:02: AdmiralRegis: also another thing*
 * 21:10:12: SuperSajuuk: I have two other topics, but I will take a break and let others discuss
 * 21:10:19: SuperSajuuk: my remaining topics are minor and not important
 * 21:10:28: SuperSajuuk: and they can wait
 * 21:10:34: G0LD3NF1RE: So do we proceed with Atve, Bro, or me then?
 * 21:10:39: SuperSajuuk: I believe Bronkiin and Gold have things to discuss
 * 21:10:41: AdmiralRegis: We have Bron and Gold left.
 * 21:10:43: SuperSajuuk: Atv did his one lol
 * 21:10:46: Atvelonis: Bronkiin you want to go?
 * 21:10:48: G0LD3NF1RE: Right
 * 21:10:54: Bronkiin: Go on then, you've talked me into it.
 * 21:10:58: SuperSajuuk: xD
 * 21:11:01: SuperSajuuk: sorry ;)
 * 21:11:22: Bronkiin: OK, I think the Featured Image and/or Quote should feature on the mainpage.
 * 21:11:29: Bronkiin: It's a good way to showcase them.
 * 21:11:36: Bronkiin: Particularly the image.
 * 21:11:48: Reva Rio: seems pretty common sense to me
 * 21:11:48: Bluesonic1: Wasn't this discussed in past moot already?
 * 21:11:49: Atvelonis: Where on the main page?
 * 21:11:51: G0LD3NF1RE: We used to have Feature images on the main page looong ago if i remember correct
 * 21:11:56: AdmiralRegis: This is a funny topic.
 * 21:11:59: Atvelonis: Under news?
 * 21:12:01: Bronkiin: I did ask before adding to the list.
 * 21:12:14: Bronkiin: It might be worth rediscussing.
 * 21:12:25: SuperSajuuk: I agree. could be on the side part of the page
 * 21:12:27: Atvelonis: I dunno I like the idea
 * 21:12:33: SuperSajuuk: the side panel is way too cluttered imo
 * 21:12:38: ~*LilithRayn*~: I like it too..It makes sense.
 * 21:12:41: Atvelonis: There's some blank space under news, we could put it there
 * 21:12:46: AdmiralRegis: Ageed SS
 * 21:12:46: G0LD3NF1RE: There seems to be room for atleast the featured picture under news
 * 21:12:53: G0LD3NF1RE: So i say go for it :>
 * 21:12:54: Reva Rio: second
 * 21:12:54: Bluesonic1: I remember Rim was the one who originally brought it up- he also brought up the cluttered issue
 * 21:12:57: AdmiralRegis: Heres an idea if we like to upvote this
 * 21:13:01: Bluesonic1: Wasn't it on your talk page CCC?
 * 21:13:11: AdmiralRegis: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Wiki
 * 21:13:12: SuperSajuuk: instead of the side imo
 * 21:13:24: Bluesonic1: (Just saying this because the idea was all fleshed out and written so people don't need to come up with new stuff)
 * 21:13:33: Bronkiin: @Admiral, not that large, lol
 * 21:13:37: SuperSajuuk: there is way too many tabs in general in the main page though imo
 * 21:13:40: AdmiralRegis: I know.
 * 21:13:49: Bronkiin: I think there's room.
 * 21:13:49: AdmiralRegis: I'm saying where.
 * 21:13:51: SuperSajuuk: (not related, but related in the sense of clutter)
 * 21:13:56: Cheatcodechamp: We discussed it, but our issue is we have little space, if we know where we can put it without crowding it that would change things
 * 21:13:57: Bronkiin: And images are a good way of breaking up text and pages.
 * 21:14:11: AdmiralRegis: One image can be 1k words
 * 21:14:11: SuperSajuuk: imo, the issue is that too much stuff is hidden under a tab
 * 21:14:20: Atvelonis: We have enough space
 * 21:14:23: Atvelonis: Put it below news
 * 21:14:24: SuperSajuuk: the affiliates bit could be better in a table at the very bottom of the page
 * 21:14:25: Bronkiin: ^^
 * 21:14:28: SuperSajuuk: (imo at least)
 * 21:14:40: Bluesonic1: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Cheatcodechamp#Regarding_the_Main_Page
 * 21:14:48: Atvelonis: That has its own tab, it's fine it's fine sajuuk
 * 21:14:51: Atvelonis: That's offtopic anyway
 * 21:14:54: G0LD3NF1RE: I think adding something under "News" would be a improvement to clutter no matter what we put there. Since it looks kinda ugly with the side boxes being so far down in comparisin to "News"
 * 21:14:56: SuperSajuuk: imo, featured pic should be top right (though that wikia ad is annoying)
 * 21:15:05: Cheatcodechamp: Rim really wants me to hurry and get that done...
 * 21:15:17: SuperSajuuk: @Flightmare
 * 21:15:20: Atvelonis: I agree with gold
 * 21:15:27: Reva Rio: can i make a suggestion?
 * 21:15:30: Atvelonis: sure
 * 21:15:33: Cheatcodechamp: syre
 * 21:15:34: Atvelonis: about this topic?
 * 21:15:45: Reva Rio: no a different one
 * 21:15:53: AdmiralRegis: Then wait after this topic.
 * 21:16:01: Reva Rio: ok
 * 21:16:01: Flightmare: Yes below news would work out
 * 21:16:02: G0LD3NF1RE: Maybe wait until we have figured out this problem Rio? :P
 * 21:16:06: Atvelonis: You can go next then reva
 * 21:16:09: Bronkiin: @Flight, yes
 * 21:16:11: Flightmare: my first thought would be increasing the news length though :P
 * 21:16:19: Flightmare: Thought about that before
 * 21:16:23: Atvelonis: There's most certainly enough space for it
 * 21:16:30: AdmiralRegis: You should also refer to FFWiki for News
 * 21:16:32: Atvelonis: But I don't think we need *that* much news
 * 21:16:36: Bronkiin: There's loads of room beneath news.
 * 21:16:36: AdmiralRegis: They have one as well.
 * 21:16:42: SuperSajuuk: there's too many blog feeds =P
 * 21:16:43: Flightmare: Though I think the tabs will be backfiring at us
 * 21:16:48: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 21:16:49: Flightmare: there are too many of them
 * 21:16:51: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 21:16:53: Bronkiin: I think we just stick the image below news, and update it each week
 * 21:16:53: SuperSajuuk: my thoughts exactly
 * 21:16:57: Atvelonis: There's definitely enough room for the quote and image of the week down there
 * 21:17:01: SuperSajuuk: some of the stuff that is "tabbed" don't need to be imo
 * 21:17:01: Bronkiin: ^
 * 21:17:04: Atvelonis: Yeah ik
 * 21:17:13: Atvelonis: We can talk about that at a different moot
 * 21:17:17: SuperSajuuk: agree
 * 21:17:23: G0LD3NF1RE: So we vote?
 * 21:17:23: Bronkiin: Ok, so featured quote and image below news?
 * 21:17:27: SuperSajuuk: i could try to make a sandbox mainpage to discuss at next moot if needed
 * 21:17:43: SuperSajuuk: anyway... voting?
 * 21:17:46: ~*LilithRayn*~: (support)
 * 21:17:49: Reva Rio: @bronk yeah
 * 21:17:50: Atvelonis: Vote to add the featured quote and image below the news section on the main page
 * 21:17:52: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:17:54: SuperSajuuk: (+)
 * 21:17:56: G0LD3NF1RE: (support)
 * 21:17:57: Flightmare: (+)
 * 21:17:59: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 21:17:59: Reva Rio: +
 * 21:18:00: AdmiralRegis: Gonna plsu this
 * 21:18:00: Bronkiin: (+)
 * 21:18:01: Atvelonis: ( + ) to vote reva
 * 21:18:02: Starkiller131: (Support)
 * 21:18:06: Bluesonic1: If it goes under the news, it'll get pushed down by larger tabs anyway?
 * 21:18:13: Flightmare: it will
 * 21:18:17: AdmiralRegis: 10-0-10
 * 21:18:19: Reva Rio: (+)
 * 21:18:21: AdmiralRegis: 10-0-0\
 * 21:18:35: Atvelonis: There aren't larger tabs
 * 21:18:36: Flightmare: I'll let the bot do the counting next week
 * 21:18:42: SuperSajuuk: XD
 * 21:18:43: Flightmare: you can't count for shit :P
 * 21:18:45: AdmiralRegis: Lol
 * 21:18:52: Starkiller131: Xd
 * 21:18:55: AdmiralRegis: My hands are buttery
 * 21:18:56: Bronkiin: How many?
 * 21:18:56: Bluesonic1: Interviews is
 * 21:19:07: Atvelonis: 9-0-0
 * 21:19:24: Atvelonis: Barely
 * 21:19:30: Atvelonis: It's about the same length blue
 * 21:19:32: Bluesonic1: (Neutral) I think this is being rushed, and as someone who takes design seriously, I don't think it should be squished in somewhere on the page "just cuz"
 * 21:19:38: Atvelonis: 9-1-0
 * 21:19:54: Bronkiin: Next?
 * 21:19:55: AdmiralRegis: I take design seriously.
 * 21:20:01: Cheatcodechamp: I agree with blue, rushed decisions are no better then bad ones.
 * 21:20:02: SuperSajuuk: Comment: I'll try to sandbox a main page which we can discuss at next moot, might help with the FQ/FI stuff.
 * 21:20:08: AdmiralRegis: But sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
 * 21:20:11: Atvelonis: So is your vote neutral CCC?
 * 21:20:22: Bluesonic1: @Admiral: Then you're not serious on design
 * 21:20:34: Bronkiin: CCC?
 * 21:20:36: Cheatcodechamp: Im more opposed, why are we agreeing to something that we feel is flawed
 * 21:20:37: Atvelonis: offtopic blue
 * 21:20:38: Flightmare: You'd probably have to go red
 * 21:20:48: Bronkiin: We don't feel its flawed?
 * 21:20:51: Bluesonic1: What CCC said actually
 * 21:21:04: Atvelonis: So 9-0-2 then blue, CCC?
 * 21:21:08: Atvelonis: You guys are opposing?
 * 21:21:09: Atvelonis: Be clear
 * 21:21:09: Bronkiin: 9 don't think its flawed.
 * 21:21:14: AdmiralRegis: @Bluesnoic1 I'm just joking. Excuse me my jokes.
 * 21:21:23: Bluesonic1: Nah I'm still neutral because I think it should be done, I just don't agree with the how
 * 21:21:29: Atvelonis: 9-1-1 then
 * 21:21:32: Atvelonis: Right CCC?
 * 21:21:32: Cheatcodechamp: Yeah, the design is flawed.
 * 21:21:43: Atvelonis: CCC are you opposing or staying neutral?
 * 21:21:46: Bluesonic1: That's the thing
 * 21:21:50: Cheatcodechamp: Oppose
 * 21:22:02: Atvelonis: Alright. So it's 9-1-1 for the image/quote topic.
 * 21:22:03: AdmiralRegis: So we can vote on doing it. But we can discuss on where we put it later on.
 * 21:22:09: Bluesonic1: In several of the topics today, we've rushed through voting support on things we may or may "discuss later"
 * 21:22:12: Atvelonis: Under news, we just voted that
 * 21:22:20: Bronkiin: We have voted for under news.
 * 21:22:20: Bluesonic1: Sajuuk suggested doing a mock up in his sandbox
 * 21:22:21: Atvelonis: We just voted for it to be under the news section
 * 21:22:29: Bronkiin: 9 want it under news.
 * 21:22:41: Bronkiin: Shall we move on?
 * 21:22:47: AdmiralRegis: Alright we shall do it. But if it feels wrong we may talk about it.
 * 21:22:54: KINMUNE: Hello there, Farts-in-jar the argonian!
 * 21:22:54: Atvelonis: Sure. It seems clear enough. Reva?
 * 21:22:57: Atvelonis: hey argonian
 * 21:23:02: Reva Rio: Ok, so im pretty new, but i feel like it was super easy to sign up for this. People could just come in here and totally mess up a lot of stuff. Should we make it harder for people to get in?
 * 21:23:03: SuperSajuuk: I think Bronkiin's topic is done? just Gold left, before my last two topics.
 * 21:23:07: AdmiralRegis: Hello guys
 * 21:23:09: G0LD3NF1RE: Rio is before me
 * 21:23:17: Atvelonis: Sign up for what?
 * 21:23:20: RenzXVI: What?
 * 21:23:20: Atvelonis: The wiki or the moot?
 * 21:23:23: ~*LilithRayn*~: The moot?
 * 21:23:24: Bluesonic1: Totally agree with Reva actually
 * 21:23:26: Reva Rio: the wiki
 * 21:23:29: AdmiralRegis: Too late Gold?
 * 21:23:30: Atvelonis: Oh
 * 21:23:33: Atvelonis: The wiki, no, no
 * 21:23:37: Atvelonis: We have patrollers for a reason
 * 21:23:41: RenzXVI: ^
 * 21:23:46: G0LD3NF1RE: Pretty much
 * 21:23:52: Reva Rio: ah ok. thats it
 * 21:23:53: Atvelonis: Patrollers revert vandalism, it's their job, stopping people from editing would decrease productivity
 * 21:23:54: SuperSajuuk: it's supposed to be easy to sign up, that's the point of a wiki.
 * 21:23:59: AdmiralRegis: Vandals will always show up.
 * 21:24:04: Bronkiin: Ok Gold?
 * 21:24:07: Starkiller131: kek Xd
 * 21:24:12: SuperSajuuk: it's an open community project. @Admiral: vandals hardly show up here
 * 21:24:14: Bluesonic1: Oh I thought this was in reference to wiki workings like votings and moots?
 * 21:24:23: G0LD3NF1RE: My topic then?
 * 21:24:26: Bronkiin: Yep
 * 21:24:35: G0LD3NF1RE: What Atvelonis?
 * 21:24:41: AdmiralRegis: Not the Moot SS lol
 * 21:24:46: Atvelonis: Blue is confused?
 * 21:24:48: AdmiralRegis: Talking about the wiki?
 * 21:24:54: Bluesonic1: I'm fine, it was a misunderstanding :P
 * 21:25:02: G0LD3NF1RE: Okay, speaking of mainpage, my topic is that we should discuss a new poll topic and maybe update the whole poll feature to be changed more frequently, since the last one is from 7 months ago.
 * 21:25:08: Atvelonis: Yes
 * 21:25:10: Bronkiin: Agreed.
 * 21:25:12: SuperSajuuk: yes x 1000
 * 21:25:18: Bronkiin: The question is the question.
 * 21:25:20: AdmiralRegis: @SS Haha. Please just Regis.
 * 21:25:21: SuperSajuuk: we sort of discussed this earlier, but we can do it properly.
 * 21:25:23: G0LD3NF1RE: My suggestion is "What are you most interested about in the upcoming eso DLC"
 * 21:25:32: Starkiller131: Yes, actually . especially Xd
 * 21:25:34: G0LD3NF1RE: Just a better title
 * 21:25:37: Bronkiin: I don't think that works.
 * 21:25:39: SuperSajuuk: here's a better question
 * 21:25:39: Bluesonic1: Agreed with and actually this was brought up in a previous moot already and voted in support actually...
 * 21:25:48: Reva Rio: What is eso?
 * 21:25:52: Atvelonis: How about "Are you getting ESO's new DLC?"
 * 21:25:53: G0LD3NF1RE: Elder Scrolls Online
 * 21:25:56: Reva Rio: oh never mind im dumb
 * 21:26:00: SuperSajuuk: "What are you most interested about in Orsinium, the upcoming DLC content for ?"
 * 21:26:02: Bronkiin: @Atv that's better
 * 21:26:05: AdmiralRegis: Gold if you want a better name
 * 21:26:06: SuperSajuuk: does this question work ?
 * 21:26:08: G0LD3NF1RE: Atvelonis, that would only leave a few options thouhg
 * 21:26:10: G0LD3NF1RE: though*
 * 21:26:18: Bronkiin: Most people won't even have ESO.
 * 21:26:20: Atvelonis: We can't have that many options
 * 21:26:21: RenzXVI: The Elder Scrolls Online, Reva Rio.
 * 21:26:26: Bronkiin: Fewer will even be getting it.
 * 21:26:29: Atvelonis: And yeah, not many people even have ESO in the first place
 * 21:26:30: Bluesonic1: Guys
 * 21:26:31: ~*LilithRayn*~: (I can't vote on this topic, so I'm just sitting back. ^_^)
 * 21:26:34: G0LD3NF1RE: No, but voting on getting a DLC is like the lamest poll
 * 21:26:35: SuperSajuuk: @Atv: we could select 5 fixed options, and a "I don't know option" or something
 * 21:26:42: Bronkiin: ^
 * 21:26:42: Atvelonis: And that came out in, what, August?
 * 21:26:45: AdmiralRegis: (Name of Game) (Update Version) - Some type of name that lure viewers in
 * 21:26:55: Atvelonis: Similar options to the question we have now
 * 21:27:03: Atvelonis: Similar, not exactly the same necessarily
 * 21:27:14: Bronkiin: The question can be anything. It shouldn't be about Orsinium.
 * 21:27:24: Bronkiin: Necessarily
 * 21:27:29: SuperSajuuk: if it's just a similarly worded question, it'll probably get missed. I think the poll gets missed easily because it's so far down the page.
 * 21:27:29: Atvelonis: Right now it should
 * 21:27:31: G0LD3NF1RE: What is your favorite TES antagonist! :P
 * 21:27:32: SuperSajuuk: at least, imo
 * 21:27:38: Bluesonic1: Guys
 * 21:27:46: Bluesonic1: we've gone way off the deep end
 * 21:27:50: Bronkiin: @Gold, something like that.
 * 21:27:53: Atvelonis: It's not the focus of it sak
 * 21:27:54: RenzXVI: ?
 * 21:27:54: Atvelonis: *saj
 * 21:27:59: SuperSajuuk: I know.
 * 21:28:05: G0LD3NF1RE: Bronkiin, it was sort of a joke :P
 * 21:28:11: G0LD3NF1RE: THat poll has been used here so many times
 * 21:28:17: Bronkiin: But i still like it ;)
 * 21:28:31: Bronkiin: I said something similar, obviously not the same
 * 21:28:41: RenzXVI: I have no idea what's happening now.
 * 21:28:47: ~*LilithRayn*~: Where can I see what y'all are talking about?
 * 21:28:47: Atvelonis: we're voting on polls renz
 * 21:28:51: Atvelonis: What should the next poll be
 * 21:28:52: SuperSajuuk: the main page one that is
 * 21:28:53: Atvelonis: On the Main Page
 * 21:29:01: AdmiralRegis: We need someone to think of better polls?
 * 21:29:02: G0LD3NF1RE: I'm still leaning forward to Orsinuim, maybe it isn't that interesting to users who don't play (Like me) but it's pretty up to date with current TES affairs.
 * 21:29:03: ~*LilithRayn*~: Thank you.
 * 21:29:13: SuperSajuuk: I think the first thing we should do is go back to the obvious: who is your favourite TES protagnoist?
 * 21:29:13: G0LD3NF1RE: I feel like the poll needs to be atleast a bit up to date
 * 21:29:18: SuperSajuuk: *protagonist
 * 21:29:20: Bronkiin: We should nominate questions like featured articles. Lol
 * 21:29:22: AdmiralRegis: I'll brv
 * 21:29:24: AdmiralRegis: brb
 * 21:29:26: SuperSajuuk: agree with Gold.
 * 21:29:32: SuperSajuuk: it is updated way too infrequently
 * 21:29:39: Atvelonis: We should update it once a month
 * 21:29:51: Reva Rio: seems fair
 * 21:30:01: Bronkiin: "What are you playing to satiate your Elder Scrolls fix"
 * 21:30:05: Cheatcodechamp: I almost question if we need a poll, its left alone far to ling between changes
 * 21:30:05: Bronkiin: And list the games.
 * 21:30:14: SuperSajuuk: @CCC: Polls are useful
 * 21:30:23: SuperSajuuk: if only to increase interactivity on the page
 * 21:30:24: Bronkiin: @CCC, we are discussing to have it more frequently too
 * 21:30:32: ~*LilithRayn*~: Well if it's updated every month, wouldn't that fix your issue, CCC?
 * 21:30:36: Cheatcodechamp: This one, and the last one where never updated for months, and the one before that was at least a year
 * 21:30:38: Atvelonis: Can we all agree to have a new one once per month?
 * 21:30:40: KINMUNE: Hello there, Kora Stormblade!
 * 21:30:43: Atvelonis: Let's do this step by step
 * 21:30:45: Atvelonis: hey kora
 * 21:30:45: SuperSajuuk: just a new poll in general needs to be done.
 * 21:30:46: Cheatcodechamp: If we are not using it, do we really need it?
 * 21:30:52: KINMUNE: Hello there, ShineCrazy!
 * 21:30:55: Atvelonis: hey shine
 * 21:30:57: Bluesonic1: This was of course before the tasklist existed
 * 21:30:58: Bronkiin: @Atv yes.
 * 21:30:59: Atvelonis: Once per month?
 * 21:31:02: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:31:03: Bluesonic1: So things just slide
 * 21:31:03: Bronkiin: (+)
 * 21:31:06: SuperSajuuk: (+)
 * 21:31:08: G0LD3NF1RE: (Support)
 * 21:31:11: Kora Stormblade: what are we voting on?
 * 21:31:11: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 21:31:15: I am Noir: (=)
 * 21:31:17: ~*LilithRayn*~: (=)
 * 21:31:20: Bronkiin: Poll once a month
 * 21:31:24: Bluesonic1: (Oppose) For exactly Kora's comment
 * 21:31:26: SuperSajuuk: on the front page
 * 21:31:35: Kora Stormblade: Well sorry..
 * 21:31:36: Atvelonis: we're voting on how often a poll should be changed on the front page
 * 21:31:37: G0LD3NF1RE: People are using the poll, it's just that it gets updated to rarely that it is hardly ever used... Cause everyone HAS already used it :P
 * 21:31:42: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 21:31:46: Bronkiin: ^
 * 21:31:52: Atvelonis: it's not directed toward you kora she's saying she's lost, we all are somewhat
 * 21:31:58: Bluesonic1: Yes
 * 21:32:00: SuperSajuuk: 2404 people voted on the poll currently there
 * 21:32:01: Kora Stormblade: Ah okay
 * 21:32:03: Bronkiin: No I'm following
 * 21:32:05: SuperSajuuk: obviously users "use" it
 * 21:32:05: Atvelonis: but this vote is to decide how often a poll should be changed
 * 21:32:10: RenzXVI: We are voting on if the poll should be updated once a month.
 * 21:32:11: Bluesonic1: We're rushing half baked ideas here that most are lost on
 * 21:32:13: SuperSajuuk: changing it more frequently helps.
 * 21:32:13: Atvelonis: Once per month, yes, neutral, or no?
 * 21:32:14: Bluesonic1: This isn't right
 * 21:32:20: Atvelonis: We're not done
 * 21:32:22: Bronkiin: Looks like 4-2-1
 * 21:32:23: Atvelonis: We'll do a few votes on this
 * 21:32:35: Atvelonis: 5-2-1 bron
 * 21:32:36: Cheatcodechamp:
 * 21:32:40: Atvelonis: For how often it is
 * 21:32:42: Cheatcodechamp: (-)
 * 21:32:50: Atvelonis: 6-2-3
 * 21:32:52: Bronkiin: Good maths Atv xD
 * 21:32:55: ~*LilithRayn*~: lol
 * 21:33:01: Atvelonis: hmm
 * 21:33:04: Atvelonis: Stalemate
 * 21:33:09: Flightmare: Once a month is not enough :)
 * 21:33:10: SuperSajuuk: ct imo
 * 21:33:15: Atvelonis: No, I think it's perfect
 * 21:33:20: Atvelonis: no saj this is good
 * 21:33:28: ShineCrazy: hellou
 * 21:33:28: ~*LilithRayn*~: I think every other week would get more activity.
 * 21:33:30: G0LD3NF1RE: Flightmare, if you take the time to update it, we might be able to do it more? :P
 * 21:33:32: ~*LilithRayn*~: Hello Shine
 * 21:33:33: Atvelonis: It coincides with MOTM and all that
 * 21:33:38: Atvelonis: It will work well
 * 21:33:39: G0LD3NF1RE: But ya
 * 21:33:41: G0LD3NF1RE: I like 1 month
 * 21:33:46: G0LD3NF1RE: I think it's a nice timeframe
 * 21:33:48: G0LD3NF1RE: For people to vote
 * 21:33:51: Reva Rio: yeah. there is so much other things that are probably higher priority.
 * 21:34:05: Bronkiin: What percentage do we need?
 * 21:34:08: Atvelonis: 2/3
 * 21:34:14: SuperSajuuk: a more frequent update of the poll would mean that more people should be able to edit it imo.
 * 21:34:15: Atvelonis: ~66.6%
 * 21:34:19: Atvelonis: Give or take
 * 21:34:20: Bronkiin: Ok.
 * 21:34:20: Cheatcodechamp: Its never used to begin with, its left to the admins to update, and we forget it because we have other items to do. The poll is nice, but only if put to use.
 * 21:34:21: SuperSajuuk: at least, in my oinion
 * 21:34:26: Atvelonis: CCC
 * 21:34:30: Atvelonis: it got 2400 votes
 * 21:34:32: SuperSajuuk: CCC. the whole point of this discussion is so it does get used
 * 21:34:35: Atvelonis: That's definitely being used
 * 21:34:41: SuperSajuuk: just because nobody bothers to update it doesn't mean it is not used.
 * 21:34:44: Flightmare: Open up poll suggestion thread on forum
 * 21:34:48: Flightmare: let everyone come up with something
 * 21:34:50: Atvelonis: Sure, sure
 * 21:34:51: Bronkiin: Not quite.
 * 21:34:52: Atvelonis: That works
 * 21:34:52: ~*LilithRayn*~: Can we vote on a few different options on how often to update it?
 * 21:34:55: Flightmare: pick a topic every 1 or 2 weeks?
 * 21:34:56: Bronkiin: We should nominate questions.
 * 21:34:58: Atvelonis: But right now we're voting on how often
 * 21:35:02: Atvelonis: I like once per month
 * 21:35:06: Bronkiin: Like featured article and image and motm
 * 21:35:09: Reva Rio: same
 * 21:35:12: G0LD3NF1RE: I also lean towards once per month
 * 21:35:23: Atvelonis: 6-2-3 is split 50/50, we need more people to vote
 * 21:35:34: G0LD3NF1RE: Just a fun one :D
 * 21:35:40: Reva Rio: exactly
 * 21:35:42: SuperSajuuk: poll is there simply to give interactivity to the homepage
 * 21:35:48: Atvelonis: We won't forget about it if it's once per month
 * 21:35:49: ~*LilithRayn*~: I would like to see it done more often. ^_^ But that's just my opinion.
 * 21:35:50: Cheatcodechamp: 2400 votes compared to how many views? The poll is how old and that is all we have?  It will get seen less as we add more to our front.
 * 21:35:59: Atvelonis: Because we can do it at the same time as MOTM
 * 21:36:00: Atvelonis: omg
 * 21:36:01: Atvelonis: CCC
 * 21:36:05: SuperSajuuk: you want people to come to the wiki and be instantly able to do something.
 * 21:36:11: G0LD3NF1RE: What negative impact will it do to try?
 * 21:36:13: SuperSajuuk: the whole reason the poll is never updated is because nobody bothers to notice it
 * 21:36:14: Atvelonis: It encourages interaction
 * 21:36:16: Reva Rio: yaaas
 * 21:36:18: Atvelonis: removing it would be lame
 * 21:36:20: SuperSajuuk: what Atv said
 * 21:36:21: Bronkiin: ^
 * 21:36:23: Kora Stormblade: yeah
 * 21:36:23: Atvelonis: It gives people something to look at
 * 21:36:36: SuperSajuuk: look, I'm gonna point something out. just about all the largest wikis' on wikia have a poll on their homepage
 * 21:36:37: Kora Stormblade: hey Star o/
 * 21:36:40: Bronkiin: We should remove it because we've been to lazy to update it
 * 21:36:47: Bronkiin: *shouldn't lol
 * 21:36:48: SuperSajuuk: they're ALL updated regularly on all those other wiki's
 * 21:36:52: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 21:36:55: Atvelonis: We've just been lazy
 * 21:36:59: Bronkiin: ^
 * 21:37:06: SuperSajuuk: it would be easier to update if the code wasn't locked in the main page source lol
 * 21:37:11: SuperSajuuk: aka, a separate template lol
 * 21:37:14: Flightmare: Templating it
 * 21:37:16: Atvelonis: if we update it more, people will see that we're active and on top of this stuff so they'll be more likely to join our community
 * 21:37:18: Atvelonis: Sure, later
 * 21:37:20: Atvelonis: later
 * 21:37:20: SuperSajuuk: that at least autoconfirmed users can edit
 * 21:37:21: Atvelonis: But now
 * 21:37:25: Bluesonic1: In regards to templating it
 * 21:37:26: Atvelonis: we have to vote on how often
 * 21:37:29: Atvelonis: It's still 6-2-3
 * 21:37:32: Atvelonis: No, not yet
 * 21:37:47: G0LD3NF1RE: Who hasn't voted?
 * 21:37:49: Atvelonis: Or neutrals, vote
 * 21:37:57: RenzXVI: Kora and Star might not have voted?
 * 21:38:03: Kora Stormblade: hm?
 * 21:38:10: G0LD3NF1RE: KINMUNE, we need you now more than ever
 * 21:38:12: G0LD3NF1RE: :P
 * 21:38:15: ~*LilithRayn*~: I assumed there would be more options on how often to update it, so I was waiting.
 * 21:38:20: ~*LilithRayn*~: lol Gold
 * 21:38:26: SuperSajuuk: can I propose some options?
 * 21:38:32: Atvelonis: no
 * 21:38:33: Atvelonis: wait
 * 21:38:34: Bronkiin: No, that would complicate things
 * 21:38:37: SuperSajuuk: xD
 * 21:38:37: Atvelonis: Stop
 * 21:38:41: Atvelonis: Re-vote, this is silly
 * 21:38:44: Starkiller131: Xd
 * 21:38:46: Bronkiin: ^^
 * 21:38:46: ~*LilithRayn*~: lol
 * 21:38:48: G0LD3NF1RE: (support)
 * 21:38:50: Reva Rio: (+)
 * 21:38:50: Atvelonis: Do we want to update the poll once per month instead of being lazy
 * 21:38:53: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:38:56: AdmiralRegis: what didi miss
 * 21:38:58: Starkiller131: (Support)
 * 21:39:00: Atvelonis: omg
 * 21:39:01: Bronkiin: (+)
 * 21:39:07: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 21:39:13: SuperSajuuk: (=) thinking it over, once a month would be too long. but not opposing.
 * 21:39:19: G0LD3NF1RE: 6-1-0
 * 21:39:22: AdmiralRegis: What are voting on?
 * 21:39:24: Flightmare: (-)
 * 21:39:25: ~*LilithRayn*~: (=)
 * 21:39:29: SuperSajuuk: simply because I want the poll updated far more.
 * 21:39:36: Atvelonis: voting on how often a poll on the main page would be
 * 21:39:37: G0LD3NF1RE: 6-2-1
 * 21:39:45: Atvelonis: We are saying once per month, 6 in favor of that
 * 21:39:49: Atvelonis: How often it would be updated that is
 * 21:39:53: ShineCrazy: (=), share supersajuuks opinion
 * 21:39:56: Atvelonis: Right now it hasn't been updated in 7 months
 * 21:40:02: AdmiralRegis: Once a month is what most Wiki's do.
 * 21:40:03: G0LD3NF1RE: 6-3-1
 * 21:40:05: Atvelonis: Yes
 * 21:40:06: Cheatcodechamp: (-) Im sorry to be the buzz kill
 * 21:40:06: Atvelonis: So vote
 * 21:40:10: G0LD3NF1RE: 6-3-2
 * 21:40:18: Bronkiin: Its down to you admiral
 * 21:40:23: Atvelonis: 6-3-2
 * 21:40:24: AdmiralRegis: Hmm...
 * 21:40:37: AdmiralRegis: I (support)
 * 21:40:37: Atvelonis: Do you like a once per month change?
 * 21:40:39: Atvelonis: Ok
 * 21:40:42: G0LD3NF1RE: 7-3-2
 * 21:40:42: Atvelonis: 7-2-3
 * 21:40:45: G0LD3NF1RE: Ayy
 * 21:40:46: Atvelonis: wait
 * 21:40:52: Bronkiin: 7-3-2
 * 21:40:56: AdmiralRegis: Flight is right.
 * 21:41:02: AdmiralRegis: We need our bot back.
 * 21:41:06: Atvelonis: 7-3-2 yeah
 * 21:41:06: SuperSajuuk: xD
 * 21:41:08: RenzXVI: What?
 * 21:41:11: ~*LilithRayn*~: lol
 * 21:41:12: Bronkiin: It passes then?
 * 21:41:19: Flightmare: Oh I thought I was right about that other thing :)
 * 21:41:19: Atvelonis: Yes
 * 21:41:21: AdmiralRegis: Uh nothing. Exterminate.
 * 21:41:23: G0LD3NF1RE: Hurray \o/
 * 21:41:27: ~*LilithRayn*~: lmao
 * 21:41:31: Bronkiin: Wow that was close!
 * 21:41:36: Bronkiin: Any other topics?
 * 21:41:38: SuperSajuuk: is that all other topics done? if so, I have two minor topics to discuss.
 * 21:41:48: Atvelonis: Wait no
 * 21:41:52: Atvelonis: We're not done talking about the poll
 * 21:42:01: Atvelonis: That was just to vote on how often it would be changed
 * 21:42:01: SuperSajuuk: okay then lol
 * 21:42:02: AdmiralRegis: Alright what eles?
 * 21:42:08: Atvelonis: Now we have to vote on HOW it will be changed
 * 21:42:13: Atvelonis: By what process
 * 21:42:17: Bronkiin: Ok.
 * 21:42:18: G0LD3NF1RE: Should poll topic be decided by forum or here?
 * 21:42:26: Atvelonis: Forum
 * 21:42:28: Bronkiin: We should nominate then vote.
 * 21:42:29: G0LD3NF1RE: Alright
 * 21:42:29: RenzXVI: I think forum/
 * 21:42:32: AdmiralRegis: Good idea.
 * 21:42:32: ~*LilithRayn*~: A forum would allow more people to be involved in it.
 * 21:42:33: SuperSajuuk: a template that only ac users can edit imo.
 * 21:42:36: Bronkiin: Or forum.
 * 21:42:39: Atvelonis: that's next saj
 * 21:42:50: SuperSajuuk: I'm not sure a thread would work. it'll become pointless and outrageous questions will be asked.
 * 21:42:51: AdmiralRegis: Brb
 * 21:42:55: Atvelonis: Hmm
 * 21:42:56: G0LD3NF1RE: I would gladly change the poll
 * 21:42:58: G0LD3NF1RE: But i can't :P
 * 21:42:58: SuperSajuuk: bringing it up in the moot would be better
 * 21:43:07: SuperSajuuk: but it should be possible for any autoconfirmed user to edit the poll
 * 21:43:10: SuperSajuuk: at least, imo
 * 21:43:13: ~*LilithRayn*~: What if we have a forum, that we choose a topic from in the moot?
 * 21:43:17: Atvelonis: hmm
 * 21:43:17: Reva Rio: you've got to know coding right?
 * 21:43:21: Atvelonis: not really
 * 21:43:26: SuperSajuuk: polls are easy to add
 * 21:43:29: Bronkiin: Rayn, not a bad idea.
 * 21:43:31: Atvelonis: That's different though, talk about that later
 * 21:43:41: ~*LilithRayn*~: Thank you, Bronkiin.
 * 21:43:46: SuperSajuuk: if we have a thread, it will just look a bit spammy :/
 * 21:43:50: Atvelonis: Rayn's idea could work
 * 21:43:51: SuperSajuuk: the community should be able to work it out themselves
 * 21:43:52: Reva Rio: bruh i could do it then
 * 21:43:57: Atvelonis: the thread...
 * 21:43:59: Atvelonis: is...
 * 21:44:01: Atvelonis: the community...
 * 21:44:06: Atvelonis: It's the forum sajuuk
 * 21:44:09: Atvelonis: Community
 * 21:44:12: SuperSajuuk: I know what the thread is lol
 * 21:44:16: G0LD3NF1RE: So Atve, you don't have time to do the poll change?
 * 21:44:24: Atvelonis: What?
 * 21:44:25: Atvelonis: No
 * 21:44:29: SuperSajuuk: but I just have a concern that the thread will become pointless in time.
 * 21:44:42: Atvelonis: no we're voting about the way we CHOOSE new polls
 * 21:44:46: Atvelonis: How do we want to choose new polls?
 * 21:44:49: Bronkiin: I don't think we should be doing a poll to choose polls
 * 21:44:50: Atvelonis: I like rayn's idea
 * 21:44:53: G0LD3NF1RE: Forum
 * 21:44:53: Bronkiin: ^
 * 21:44:59: SuperSajuuk: what Bronkiin said
 * 21:45:00: Atvelonis: Make a forum post.
 * 21:45:02: Bronkiin: Sorry, Rayn's idea.
 * 21:45:02: KINMUNE: Hello there, CallMeChaos!
 * 21:45:06: Atvelonis: Choose from those suggestions
 * 21:45:08: Atvelonis: hey chaos
 * 21:45:10: RenzXVI: ~*LilithRayn*~ is good.
 * 21:45:14: SuperSajuuk: a poll to discuss the next poll question. I don't agree with that option.
 * 21:45:18: Atvelonis: And vote on a few of those suggestions in the moot
 * 21:45:21: Atvelonis: It's not a poll
 * 21:45:23: Atvelonis: it's a thread
 * 21:45:23: Flightmare: We could make it the Wild West for 1 month and see how it goes
 * 21:45:25: Atvelonis: Open-ended
 * 21:45:32: Atvelonis: We can *try* it at least?
 * 21:45:34: Flightmare: as pilot project
 * 21:45:35: Bronkiin: A thread is too similar.
 * 21:45:37: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 21:45:39: Atvelonis: gah
 * 21:45:40: Atvelonis: ok
 * 21:45:47: SuperSajuuk: a thread is just a poll, just not the traditional sense lol
 * 21:45:51: Atvelonis: What alternative(s) do you offer?
 * 21:45:59: Atvelonis: It's more open-ended than that saj
 * 21:46:04: Bronkiin: Rayn? Repeat your idea.
 * 21:46:04: SuperSajuuk: a template that any autoconfirmed user can edit.
 * 21:46:09: Bluesonic1: Dafuq SS, that flies in the face of stuff you've said in the past...
 * 21:46:12: Atvelonis: no, no
 * 21:46:15: ~*LilithRayn*~: ^_^ I think getting ideas together from a forum then voting here would be good.
 * 21:46:21: SuperSajuuk: just adding a comment saying "Don't change this poll until two weeks pass"
 * 21:46:22: Atvelonis: if you edit a poll it gets reset
 * 21:46:22: Bluesonic1: You can't do the template thing
 * 21:46:24: Atvelonis: no
 * 21:46:27: Atvelonis: sajuuk
 * 21:46:36: Atvelonis: not everyone will listen to that
 * 21:46:42: Kora Stormblade: ^
 * 21:46:43: SuperSajuuk: actually, you'd be surprised...
 * 21:46:50: SuperSajuuk: and you'd be surprised how often users DON'T edit templates. ;)
 * 21:46:50: Bronkiin: Its not worth risking
 * 21:46:52: Atvelonis: that's like saying "don't change who the MOTM is until next month ok we're just trusting you"
 * 21:46:53: Bluesonic1: Sajuuk, this was already voted on in a past CT
 * 21:46:56: Atvelonis: It's silly sajuuk
 * 21:46:56: CallMeChaos: I have played so many hours of Skyrim its not even funny but I just started up a new game, going for an Argonian Paladin build and I can't get Hearthfire to activate properly and the Jarl wont give me the quests.
 * 21:47:00: Atvelonis: Just causes issues
 * 21:47:02: SuperSajuuk: @Blue: that ct was wrong then :)
 * 21:47:05: Atvelonis: @Chaos: Talk to me in pm
 * 21:47:09: Atvelonis: We're having a meeting
 * 21:47:11: SuperSajuuk: a ct is not "binding"
 * 21:47:11: Atvelonis: omg
 * 21:47:14: Atvelonis: yes it is
 * 21:47:16: Atvelonis: it's policy
 * 21:47:19: Bluesonic1: ^
 * 21:47:26: Bluesonic1: To say that Sajuuk
 * 21:47:30: SuperSajuuk: a policy to lock templates. that is utterly stupid. imo
 * 21:47:32: Cheatcodechamp: If its unlocked, any edit will reset the poll, it should be locked to protect it. Besides, we already agreed in a past moot front page templates get locked.
 * 21:47:33: Bluesonic1: Is to call this whole moot bull then
 * 21:47:37: SuperSajuuk: nothing should be locked on policy
 * 21:47:39: Bluesonic1: Not to lock templates
 * 21:47:44: Bluesonic1: if anyone cared to listen
 * 21:47:44: SuperSajuuk: in fact, wikia does not allow you to lock things on a policy.
 * 21:47:55: Atvelonis: we're getting extremely offtopiuc
 * 21:48:03: Bronkiin: Ok.
 * 21:48:08: Bronkiin: Here's what I think:
 * 21:48:21: Bronkiin: We should decide on the question in the Moot, like we do with featured image.
 * 21:48:30: Reva Rio: second
 * 21:48:42: Bronkiin: That will mean there is no poll on the poll, but it can still be discussed.
 * 21:48:49: Bluesonic1: Yes to that
 * 21:48:52: Reva Rio: its seems simpler that way
 * 21:49:09: G0LD3NF1RE: Fine to me
 * 21:49:09: Cheatcodechamp: All in favor of Brokiin's idea of handling the poll the way we handle featured items?
 * 21:49:16: G0LD3NF1RE: (support)
 * 21:49:25: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:49:27: ShineCrazy: (=)
 * 21:49:29: ~*LilithRayn*~: (support)
 * 21:49:31: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 21:49:50: Atvelonis: 6-2-0
 * 21:49:59: G0LD3NF1RE: Now we decide on a topic?
 * 21:50:00: Bronkiin: Shall I vote? Oh, go on then. (+)
 * 21:50:04: Atvelonis: 7-2-0
 * 21:50:23: Atvelonis: Anyone else?
 * 21:50:25: Flightmare: (=)
 * 21:50:34: G0LD3NF1RE: 7-3-0
 * 21:50:44: Flightmare: I don't see much difference in where it is decided, as long as it gets decided :)
 * 21:50:52: G0LD3NF1RE: :)
 * 21:50:54: ~*LilithRayn*~: ^_^
 * 21:50:57: Cheatcodechamp: Motion passed, what will we argue next?
 * 21:51:01: ~*LilithRayn*~: lol
 * 21:51:04: Bluesonic1: XD
 * 21:51:07: G0LD3NF1RE: Topic for the poll i guessed
 * 21:51:08: ~*LilithRayn*~: Topic?
 * 21:51:21: Atvelonis: Ok, someone suggest a topic
 * 21:51:22: Atvelonis: Orsinium
 * 21:51:34: ShineCrazy: What were previous topics? So we don't get the same twice
 * 21:51:34: G0LD3NF1RE: I still stand by "Orsinium" or favorite Antagonist
 * 21:51:37: Bronkiin: Do we intend to set up the poll now?
 * 21:51:39: Cheatcodechamp: I say to save time and keep peace, we handle that on that page we just said we should handle votes on
 * 21:51:45: Atvelonis: There have been a ton shine, I can't list them off the top of my head
 * 21:51:48: Atvelonis: Yes
 * 21:51:56: Bronkiin: Ok.
 * 21:51:59: ShineCrazy: Hm I see
 * 21:52:01: Atvelonis: What CCC?
 * 21:52:15: Flightmare: Just keep in mind the history of polls :)
 * 21:52:16: SuperSajuuk: poll should be about orsinium imo
 * 21:52:27: ~*LilithRayn*~: (are there more topics after this one?)
 * 21:52:29: SuperSajuuk: this is why a template would be far better, page history lol
 * 21:52:31: SuperSajuuk: but eh
 * 21:52:38: ShineCrazy: what exactly did you have in mind saj?
 * 21:53:08: Atvelonis: a template
 * 21:53:14: Atvelonis: or something
 * 21:53:15: Bronkiin: ^We've discussed this.
 * 21:53:16: Atvelonis: With the code on that template
 * 21:53:23: Bronkiin: We're onto the question, surely?
 * 21:53:28: Flightmare: Template:Portal/Component/Poll
 * 21:53:28: SuperSajuuk: is the common poll area, but it's done and dusted for that
 * 21:53:37: SuperSajuuk: ...
 * 21:53:38: SuperSajuuk: wtf
 * 21:53:41: Flightmare: Please read the history ;)
 * 21:53:43: SuperSajuuk: there's already a fucking template poll
 * 21:53:46: Cheatcodechamp: We just said we would handle it like featured images and quotes, we have pages for those now, have for weeks. Lets vote for it there and save ourselves the time instead of arguing over this for another 20 minutes.
 * 21:53:46: SuperSajuuk: what the hell?
 * 21:53:53: Cheatcodechamp: Langues
 * 21:53:53: ~*LilithRayn*~: I have to run guys. Will everything be posted after y'all are done?
 * 21:53:59: Bronkiin: ^Yes
 * 21:54:01: Cheatcodechamp: In the weekly update
 * 21:54:05: Atvelonis: yeah it will be in the update lilith
 * 21:54:08: Bronkiin: Ok question.
 * 21:54:10: Atvelonis: wait?
 * 21:54:11: SuperSajuuk: @CCC: I'm just expousing my shock lol.
 * 21:54:12: G0LD3NF1RE: See Ya Lil
 * 21:54:12: SuperSajuuk: anyway
 * 21:54:15: ~*LilithRayn*~: Ok, thanks. I'll see y'all later. Good luck
 * 21:54:20: SuperSajuuk: I'll just vote on whatever question you guys decide
 * 21:54:21: SuperSajuuk: lol
 * 21:54:33: Atvelonis: how about we just put in that poll into the mainpage and put the actual poll there, but vote on it here?
 * 21:54:33: Bronkiin: It should be Orsinium based, but open to those who don't have ESO
 * 21:54:35: Atvelonis: So vote here
 * 21:54:42: Atvelonis: But it goes there, which goes on the main page
 * 21:54:43: Atvelonis: Simpler
 * 21:54:46: Flightmare: Don't use the template I linked
 * 21:54:48: Flightmare: it is crap
 * 21:54:51: SuperSajuuk: xD
 * 21:54:54: Atvelonis: Ok, so it goes on some other template
 * 21:54:56: Flightmare: but I simply wanted to show you the history of polls
 * 21:54:58: Flightmare: we had over the years
 * 21:55:01: Atvelonis: But that's not important
 * 21:55:09: Bronkiin: Topic?
 * 21:55:14: G0LD3NF1RE: Orsinium is the next ESO DLC, what area do you hope for in the next ESO DLC" ?
 * 21:55:18: Atvelonis: ehhh
 * 21:55:24: SuperSajuuk: too long.
 * 21:55:25: SuperSajuuk: suggestion:
 * 21:55:32: G0LD3NF1RE: Well, you can re-word it
 * 21:55:34: Bronkiin: It should involve Orsinium, but be open to those without ESO.
 * 21:55:34: G0LD3NF1RE: To be shorter
 * 21:55:39: Atvelonis: How about just "Are you getting The Elder Scrolls Online's newest DLC, Orsinium?"
 * 21:55:39: SuperSajuuk: "What are you looking forward to most in Orsinium, the next ESO DLC?"
 * 21:55:43: Atvelonis: Ehh
 * 21:55:48: Flightmare: Same length?
 * 21:55:52: G0LD3NF1RE: lol
 * 21:55:53: Atvelonis: That doesn't have a wide enough audience
 * 21:55:56: Reva Rio: what aspect of ESO is your favorite?
 * 21:55:57: Bronkiin: Atv's is better, but not quite there.
 * 21:56:07: RenzXVI: Cant contribute much to this topic, I will be cooking noodles.
 * 21:56:12: SuperSajuuk: Atv's question is too generic. it's just yes, no or idk. lol
 * 21:56:13: G0LD3NF1RE: I think "yes or no" polls are pretty boring
 * 21:56:15: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 21:56:19: Atvelonis: Yeah they are
 * 21:56:26: SuperSajuuk: it is a pointless waste of time, let's just not bother with a yes/no style poll lol
 * 21:56:30: KINMUNE: Hello there, MisterSir!
 * 21:56:32: SuperSajuuk: something better imo
 * 21:56:32: Atvelonis: hey mistersir
 * 21:56:35: Reva Rio: hello Sir
 * 21:56:36: MisterSir: Hi
 * 21:56:44: SuperSajuuk: hey Surr. :P
 * 21:56:44: ShineCrazy: hello
 * 21:56:48: Reva Rio: what about mine though?
 * 21:56:51: Bronkiin: No.
 * 21:56:57: Bronkiin: Because it's too narrow an audience
 * 21:56:58: Bluesonic1: Just a question; are there other more important topics left to discuss or are we just onto the poll question and featured quote + image before closing up the moot?
 * 21:56:58: Reva Rio: ok
 * 21:57:00: Atvelonis: We want it to be about Orsinium though?
 * 21:57:02: Atvelonis: Right?
 * 21:57:03: G0LD3NF1RE: "Are you looking forward to Orsinium, if so which aspect excites you most"
 * 21:57:07: SuperSajuuk: @Blue: I've got two minor points
 * 21:57:13: SuperSajuuk: I'll just focus on one of them
 * 21:57:22: Bluesonic1: The discuss that and choose a topic on the page as was voted on!!
 * 21:57:36: G0LD3NF1RE: That would be a plus Atve
 * 21:57:39: SuperSajuuk: actually, i could just do both of them at once.
 * 21:57:52: SuperSajuuk: @Atv: yes, it should be about orsinium. nothing else.
 * 21:58:01: Atvelonis: For this time at least
 * 21:58:06: G0LD3NF1RE: Yep
 * 21:58:25: Bronkiin: I don't think enough play ESO for an Orsinium question to be relevant
 * 21:58:36: ShineCrazy: I think so, too
 * 21:58:38: Bronkiin: We can tie it in to Orsinium
 * 21:58:47: Bronkiin: But not necessarily the DLC>
 * 21:58:49: SuperSajuuk: ^ true, but we should at least "pretend" to be watching the latest stuff xD
 * 21:58:55: Bluesonic1: Guys we juuuust voted on this, what are you doing?
 * 21:58:58: Atvelonis: "Are you enjoying ESO's DLCs, such as Orsinium?"
 * 21:59:00: Cheatcodechamp: We just said we would handle this like we do the other items, we handle those on their project pages, arguing about it here only lengthens the moot needlessly. Sajuuk still has items he wants to talk about, and arguing on this issue is getting us nowhere
 * 21:59:01: Atvelonis: No we didn't?
 * 21:59:07: Atvelonis: What about that
 * 21:59:13: Bluesonic1: What CCC said
 * 21:59:17: G0LD3NF1RE: Atve, that's also a "Yes or no" :P
 * 21:59:23: Atvelonis: how would we do that though ccc
 * 21:59:23: Bluesonic1: If you really must discuss the poll topic
 * 21:59:30: Bronkiin: And that's an even narrower audience.
 * 21:59:31: Atvelonis: I'm getting lost
 * 21:59:33: Bluesonic1: Do it at the end of the moot like the picture & quote stuff
 * 21:59:38: Bronkiin: ^
 * 21:59:40: Atvelonis: Ok?
 * 21:59:41: Cheatcodechamp: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Wiki:FeaturedImages
 * 21:59:42: Atvelonis: fine fine
 * 21:59:43: Bronkiin: Yes good idea.
 * 21:59:49: Cheatcodechamp: Nominations
 * 21:59:53: Atvelonis: So The Elder Scrolls Wiki:FeaturedPoll
 * 21:59:53: Bronkiin: Think of questions until we get there btw
 * 22:00:03: Bluesonic1: Sajuuk has other stuff to discuss and I have shit to do, can we get on with the actual moot as we voted on?
 * 22:00:16: Bronkiin: That is part of the Moot, calm down lol
 * 22:00:17: SuperSajuuk: if CCC's thing will take a short time, do his thing first.
 * 22:00:24: Bronkiin: But yeh, featured image
 * 22:00:40: Bluesonic1: @Bronkiin: We literally just voted on how to handle this, and what are people doing? Not handling it as voted
 * 22:00:54: Bronkiin: We voted to discuss it in the moot.
 * 22:00:58: Atvelonis: hmm
 * 22:00:58: Bronkiin: And we were.
 * 22:01:04: Bronkiin: And will. But now featured image,
 * 22:01:11: Atvelonis: wait...
 * 22:01:15: Bluesonic1: We voted to discuss it in moot LIKE feature image and quote. Those things get discussed at the end of the moot'
 * 22:01:21: SuperSajuuk: Castle Volkihar's image imo
 * 22:01:28: G0LD3NF1RE: Did Sajuuk want to present his last two things, or do we wait til next moot?
 * 22:01:28: Atvelonis: shouldn't we be nominating pictures in advance?
 * 22:01:29: Bluesonic1: People still have other topics to cover
 * 22:01:35: Atvelonis: this is for last week?
 * 22:01:36: Atvelonis: or wait
 * 22:01:37: Atvelonis: no
 * 22:01:37: SuperSajuuk: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/File:Dawnguard-castle.jpg < this one
 * 22:01:38: Atvelonis: wait
 * 22:01:45: Atvelonis: sajuuk you have to nominate it on the page
 * 22:01:50: SuperSajuuk: oh right lol
 * 22:01:50: SuperSajuuk: okay
 * 22:01:53: Starkiller131: Xd
 * 22:01:54: SuperSajuuk: my topics are minimal
 * 22:01:58: Bluesonic1: Also, we're not up to that bit of the moot anyway
 * 22:02:01: Cheatcodechamp: We already have three images, I voted on one o them
 * 22:02:09: Cheatcodechamp: Sajuuks next point?
 * 22:02:09: SuperSajuuk: first one
 * 22:02:25: SuperSajuuk: I would like to propose a CT on possibly cleaning up and loosening chat policy
 * 22:02:33: SuperSajuuk: I have already mentioned this previously in the chat
 * 22:02:35: Bronkiin: Wow that's not minor.
 * 22:02:45: Atvelonis: that is not minor at all sajuuk?
 * 22:02:45: SuperSajuuk: let me finish ;)
 * 22:02:48: G0LD3NF1RE: Examples of changes you want to make?
 * 22:03:14: SuperSajuuk: the chat policy is essentially a legacy of Jimeee, which was all about making almost every little minor thing a violation and kick worthy.
 * 22:03:21: SuperSajuuk: I am not going to waste the moot's time to discuss it all
 * 22:03:30: SuperSajuuk: my proposal is: should we make a ct to discuss the chat policy?
 * 22:03:35: Cheatcodechamp: You are calling for a CT, that is not minor, you bringing it here means you want us to talk about it. A CT is not minor.
 * 22:03:39: Atvelonis: what's wrong with it currently?
 * 22:03:39: Bluesonic1: This is definitely not minor, and I think it should be brought up as a CT
 * 22:03:42: SuperSajuuk: Blue
 * 22:03:44: SuperSajuuk: the point was
 * 22:03:49: SuperSajuuk: this was not to be discussed in the moot
 * 22:03:50: Bronkiin: ^
 * 22:03:51: Atvelonis: why should we bring it up in a CT at all sajuuk?
 * 22:03:51: SuperSajuuk: read the agenda
 * 22:03:58: SuperSajuuk: I clearly said that this was a vote to bring it to ct
 * 22:04:00: Atvelonis: is there any real reason? you have to explain why
 * 22:04:02: Cheatcodechamp: I think the policy is fine, the fact that some people are not blocked for life says this isnt Jimeee legacy
 * 22:04:02: SuperSajuuk: I wanted to see whether people agreed
 * 22:04:14: G0LD3NF1RE: I want some examples of what is wrong with the policy and what examples of changes you want made before agreeing
 * 22:04:17: Atvelonis: in fact sajuuk if you want to start a CT, just start it
 * 22:04:21: Bluesonic1: ^
 * 22:04:22: Atvelonis: don't go through the moot first
 * 22:04:22: AdmiralRegis: Alright what just happened Im back
 * 22:04:23: SuperSajuuk: I wanted to bring it up in moot first
 * 22:04:25: Atvelonis: that doesn't make sense
 * 22:04:25: Bronkiin: I'm not familiar enough with the policy.
 * 22:04:27: SuperSajuuk: before just making a ct
 * 22:04:35: SuperSajuuk: but guys seriously
 * 22:04:57: SuperSajuuk: you didn't even let me finish my proposal, which should have resulted in the interrupters being kicked >_>
 * 22:05:04: Bronkiin: Ok, we'll CT?
 * 22:05:04: Atvelonis: No, that's not how CTs work bron, you just start it
 * 22:05:05: SuperSajuuk: anyway, I'll make a ct.
 * 22:05:07: Atvelonis: This is too lengthy
 * 22:05:08: Atvelonis: ok
 * 22:05:09: Atvelonis: do that
 * 22:05:14: SuperSajuuk: the point was just to say I was going to make a ct
 * 22:05:16: SuperSajuuk: anyway
 * 22:05:18: SuperSajuuk: last topic
 * 22:05:26: SuperSajuuk: earlier we discussed to open the motm to more people
 * 22:05:46: SuperSajuuk: I am thinking that maybe motm should go on hiatus at some point if people are struggling to find people to nominate.
 * 22:05:51: SuperSajuuk: not like, instantly
 * 22:06:06: SuperSajuuk: but like, writing it somewhere that if users are struggling to find a user worthy of the award, the motm will not be done that month
 * 22:06:10: Bronkiin: Understood.
 * 22:06:13: Atvelonis: we aren't finding it hard to nominate people? I'm planning on nominating azura later
 * 22:06:18: Atvelonis: in general... sure?
 * 22:06:22: Atvelonis: that's common sense really
 * 22:06:26: SuperSajuuk: I think the nomination of Kora is an indication of that ;)
 * 22:06:29: Atvelonis: if we can't nominate anyone... don't do it
 * 22:06:31: Bluesonic1: Yeah a general message wouldn't hurt
 * 22:06:33: Kora Stormblade: Hm?
 * 22:06:48: SuperSajuuk: Sorry Kora, but it's true :/
 * 22:06:52: Bluesonic1: ....
 * 22:06:58: SuperSajuuk: I don't mean to insult you.
 * 22:07:04: Kora Stormblade: Okay
 * 22:07:10: Bronkiin: @Atv, I agree
 * 22:07:21: SuperSajuuk: motm is meant really for "noteworthy" editors. not just any random person who just happens to be nice and makes edits.
 * 22:07:47: Bronkiin: Where do we want to go with this, guys? A vote or...
 * 22:07:47: SuperSajuuk: (and that's not insulting anyone for editing the wiki, but if we just started giving motm to every random user who just edited, it would be a waste of time)
 * 22:08:05: Kora Stormblade: Lets move onto something else please
 * 22:08:12: Bluesonic1: I think in the case of Kora's nomination, it was simply done by someone who may not have understood what MOTM nominations require
 * 22:08:14: AdmiralRegis: You know MOTM isn't too special.
 * 22:08:29: Bluesonic1: Hence why you wanted to put the edit cap?
 * 22:08:35: Atvelonis: what?
 * 22:08:38: Atvelonis: hey noir
 * 22:08:40: AdmiralRegis: Given someone we wfeel have done alot for the month and such then we can give it to them.
 * 22:08:40: Atvelonis: I'm lost
 * 22:08:41: G0LD3NF1RE: Sup Noi
 * 22:08:43: G0LD3NF1RE: Noir
 * 22:08:51: SuperSajuuk: @Blue I didn't propose edit cap, but I proposed opening it to more users
 * 22:09:07: I am Noir: Pings didn't make noise. :/
 * 22:09:10: Bluesonic1: Opening it to more users while trying to restrict it as well
 * 22:09:19: Bronkiin: Yes/
 * 22:09:23: Bronkiin: It does make sense.
 * 22:09:24: Bluesonic1: This is why I made the previous comment about the so called "fix" not working
 * 22:09:31: Bronkiin: But this isn;t the time to discuss it.
 * 22:09:41: SuperSajuuk: back to proposal
 * 22:10:03: SuperSajuuk: vote to add a general message of "don't nominate users if there is nobody doing something that is noteworthy" ?
 * 22:10:20: SuperSajuuk: or something like that
 * 22:10:26: Flightmare: I really should be going now. o/ PS check User:Flightmare/sandbox/imagemap
 * 22:10:29: Bronkiin: Ok I agree.
 * 22:10:29: I am Noir: o/
 * 22:10:30: RenzXVI: That's too broad.
 * 22:10:32: G0LD3NF1RE: See Ya Flighty
 * 22:10:35: Bluesonic1: Too subjective
 * 22:10:42: RenzXVI: ^
 * 22:10:46: Bronkiin: If you want, we can make it more specific.
 * 22:10:47: Atvelonis: ok bye flight
 * 22:10:51: SuperSajuuk: bai Flightmare :3
 * 22:10:52: Bluesonic1: Bye Flight!
 * 22:10:54: Bronkiin: As to who can make nominations.
 * 22:10:56: G0LD3NF1RE: Awesome map he made
 * 22:10:58: AdmiralRegis: Come on Flight I wanted to do that.
 * 22:10:59: Atvelonis: that's really, really subjective though saj
 * 22:11:04: SuperSajuuk: @Atv: I know
 * 22:11:12: SuperSajuuk: that's why I said "something like that2
 * 22:11:17: SuperSajuuk: it's up to you guys what you want it to say.
 * 22:11:27: Bluesonic1: Ok instead of rushing this half assed, let's decide on the phrase now?
 * 22:11:34: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 22:11:37: Bronkiin: That's what he's suggesting.
 * 22:11:45: Bluesonic1: Yes and I agree with it
 * 22:12:13: Bronkiin: Only staff can nominate?
 * 22:12:19: Bronkiin: Something like that.
 * 22:12:38: Atvelonis: Do we want only staff to be able to nominate?
 * 22:12:47: Bluesonic1: Wait
 * 22:12:47: SuperSajuuk: (-) no. anyone should be able to nominate
 * 22:12:48: Bronkiin: It's just a suggestion to get us going.
 * 22:12:53: I am Noir: I would be okay with it.
 * 22:13:04: I am Noir: (+)
 * 22:13:05: SuperSajuuk: I would prefer that something be added just asking users to at least check contributions before nominating a user.
 * 22:13:07: Bluesonic1: We're currently voting on a phrase to add similar to "if there's no one to vote, don't just nominate anyone"
 * 22:13:12: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 22:13:12: G0LD3NF1RE: I have no problem with only staff being able, im sure others do though
 * 22:13:19: Bluesonic1: Who can nominate is a different topic
 * 22:13:23: Bronkiin: I have no problem.
 * 22:13:39: Bronkiin: It has the same effect, Blue.
 * 22:13:43: Starkiller131: Staff only.. really?
 * 22:13:44: SuperSajuuk: let's avoid making the staff having to do like... everything lol. this is what happened before, nobody could do much, it just ended up being sysops doing everything.
 * 22:13:59: Bronkiin: It was only to get us going, it isn't a proposal.
 * 22:14:01: Bluesonic1: No it doesn't...
 * 22:14:08: Bluesonic1: Guys
 * 22:14:09: Bronkiin: Someone else come up with something
 * 22:14:10: G0LD3NF1RE: It's the same topic Bluesonic1, if only staff are able to nominate, then there wont be any mistakes in nominating
 * 22:14:16: Bronkiin: ^
 * 22:14:23: Bluesonic1: That wasn't what the topic was though?
 * 22:14:27: Bronkiin: omg.
 * 22:14:28: G0LD3NF1RE: It was
 * 22:14:32: Bronkiin: ^
 * 22:14:38: G0LD3NF1RE: Cause we needed a phrase to stop people from doing so
 * 22:14:41: Bluesonic1: The topic was simply if there is no one to nominate, don't nominate
 * 22:14:52: Bronkiin: To stop people from making mistakes!
 * 22:14:52: SuperSajuuk: afaik, the topic was about just adding a notice of "don't nominate random users if there are no users to nominate for this award"£
 * 22:14:56: Bluesonic1: After they nominate and make mistakes, is a different story
 * 22:14:57: RenzXVI: We could make it more elaborate though?
 * 22:15:08: SuperSajuuk: maybe it's just the motm guidelines aren't clear enough.
 * 22:15:13: Bronkiin: ^
 * 22:15:16: RenzXVI: The nominee could be interviewed by madman first before voting?
 * 22:15:23: Bronkiin: Too much effort.
 * 22:15:25: SuperSajuuk: Madman is hardly around.
 * 22:15:27: G0LD3NF1RE: Too much effort
 * 22:15:27: Atvelonis: That would take a long time
 * 22:15:27: G0LD3NF1RE: Yea
 * 22:15:34: Atvelonis: It'd be too difficult
 * 22:15:35: RenzXVI: I thought so. XD
 * 22:15:41: SuperSajuuk: let's just not try to push stuff onto people who may not even be here lol
 * 22:15:52: Bluesonic1: Perhaps MOTM guidelines could be reviewed
 * 22:15:55: SuperSajuuk: ^
 * 22:15:57: Bronkiin: ^
 * 22:16:00: SuperSajuuk: ct for that possibly though.
 * 22:16:04: Bluesonic1: Yeah
 * 22:16:09: Bronkiin: Something like that.
 * 22:16:20: Bronkiin: But it does need looking at. Definitely
 * 22:16:20: Atvelonis: Ok, so if we want to review the guidelines, make a CT
 * 22:16:23: SuperSajuuk: vote for ct on discussing motm guidelines then?
 * 22:16:37: Bronkiin: Atv?
 * 22:16:50: G0LD3NF1RE: Just make a CT without a vote?
 * 22:17:04: SuperSajuuk: I know we don't need to vote on making a ct
 * 22:17:05: Bluesonic1: What Gold and Atvel said
 * 22:17:12: SuperSajuuk: but it just makes it a bit more "formal" :P
 * 22:17:15: Bronkiin: I had to get a vote before I started my CT
 * 22:17:17: Bronkiin: ..?
 * 22:17:18: Atvelonis: doesn't need to be sajuuk
 * 22:17:22: Atvelonis: that's not necessary
 * 22:17:31: G0LD3NF1RE: Then you did something silly Bro :P
 * 22:17:34: Atvelonis: ok if we want to start CTs we don't need to vote
 * 22:17:38: SuperSajuuk: personally, that way it would show the wiki that the moot wants to hear more opinions
 * 22:17:39: Bluesonic1: ^
 * 22:17:44: Bluesonic1: wait
 * 22:17:50: Bluesonic1: My thing was to Atvels comment
 * 22:17:53: Bluesonic1: Damn lag
 * 22:17:59: SuperSajuuk: even if it is a formality, it does no real harm lol
 * 22:18:01: Bronkiin: Ok. Move on.
 * 22:18:04: SuperSajuuk: even if it looks pointless lol
 * 22:18:05: Atvelonis: It takes time
 * 22:18:08: Bluesonic1: It takes up time Sajuuk
 * 22:18:08: Atvelonis: It's been two and a half hours
 * 22:18:11: Atvelonis: This is a long moot
 * 22:18:13: G0LD3NF1RE: Too long
 * 22:18:14: SuperSajuuk: 2 hours 20 mins ;)
 * 22:18:16: Atvelonis: 1-2 hours is the normal length
 * 22:18:20: Atvelonis: 2 at absolute most
 * 22:18:24: Atvelonis: This is too long, far too long
 * 22:18:33: SuperSajuuk: which, to me, is a benefit?
 * 22:18:35: I am Noir: ^
 * 22:18:35: SuperSajuuk: I guess it's my fault
 * 22:18:38: SuperSajuuk: too many topics to discuss imo
 * 22:18:39: Bronkiin: Let's just finish this.
 * 22:18:43: SuperSajuuk: which I'll take the rap for lol
 * 22:18:46: Bronkiin: Featured images.
 * 22:18:51: Bluesonic1: Bronkiin
 * 22:18:59: Bronkiin: ...
 * 22:19:04: Bluesonic1: Does anyone else have any other topics they wish to discuss?
 * 22:19:13: G0LD3NF1RE: I think that was all
 * 22:19:16: SuperSajuuk: the agenda says no
 * 22:19:18: Bronkiin: It was all.
 * 22:19:19: Atvelonis: TES:FeaturedImages remember to vote here
 * 22:19:20: SuperSajuuk: most of the moot was just me lol
 * 22:19:20: SuperSajuuk: xD
 * 22:19:27: Starkiller131: Xd
 * 22:19:28: Atvelonis: TES:Quote of the Week and here
 * 22:19:37: Bluesonic1: Ok, then by all means, move on to image, quote and poll. Just wanted to make sure :)
 * 22:19:38: SuperSajuuk: those should be added to weekly update thread ;)
 * 22:19:51: Bronkiin: I like CCC's quote.
 * 22:20:17: Cheatcodechamp: I think my quote it the only one right?
 * 22:20:25: Bronkiin: There's another.
 * 22:20:35: Bronkiin: Halund Greycloak or whatever.
 * 22:20:42: Bronkiin: Yeh, there's 2
 * 22:20:44: Atvelonis: ok tbh I think it makes no sense to vote for quote and image there
 * 22:20:48: Atvelonis: it's too lengthy
 * 22:20:49: G0LD3NF1RE: Hmm, i liked prophets mind.. But not alot of stuff in it, it kinda focuses on the nothingness. But that might just be the games fault for all i know :P
 * 22:20:54: G0LD3NF1RE: Like your other pic though Bronkiin! ^^
 * 22:21:03: Atvelonis: we only start voting late, too
 * 22:21:08: Atvelonis: ugh
 * 22:21:19: Cheatcodechamp: How about this, I have a few hours before I do the update, people have then to vote, Ill add the winners
 * 22:21:28: Atvelonis: Ok, ok, that works then
 * 22:21:38: Cheatcodechamp: This is been a long moot, most of us have other things.
 * 22:21:40: Atvelonis: Everyone vote on those
 * 22:21:40: G0LD3NF1RE: Niceee CCC
 * 22:21:41: Bronkiin: Ok, what do we do about the Concept Art nomination?
 * 22:21:44: Atvelonis: TES:Quote of the Week
 * 22:21:44: SuperSajuuk: sorry about long moot
 * 22:21:47: SuperSajuuk: it's my fault ;)
 * 22:21:49: Atvelonis: TES:Featured Image
 * 22:21:55: SuperSajuuk: I had a LOT to discuss at this first earlier moot
 * 22:21:58: Atvelonis: I say no concept art, it should be screenshots
 * 22:21:59: Cheatcodechamp: Unless we change policy, no concept art.
 * 22:22:05: Bronkiin: No concept art, agreed.
 * 22:22:15: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, all in favor of ending the moot
 * 22:22:17: Atvelonis: aye
 * 22:22:23: Bluesonic1: (Thanks Sajuuk XD)
 * 22:22:24: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 22:22:24: SuperSajuuk: "discuss concept art..." XD
 * 22:22:28: Bronkiin: (+) (+)
 * 22:22:31: SuperSajuuk: and yes, I'm fine with ending moot.
 * 22:22:32: Bronkiin: (+)
 * 22:22:35: SuperSajuuk: why vote on that lol
 * 22:22:37: Bluesonic1: (support)
 * 22:22:38: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, moots over, get lost, see you all later