Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-25343239-20150319182007/@comment-260563-20180320010648

Nobody won the war. The Empire didn't win. The Dominion didn't win. The Dominion only got two things out of the war: a province they couldn't hold, and a religious agreement that did nothing except rile up a bunch of Nords, which really didn't get most of the Legion to divert forces to Skyrim. Instead, the Legion just hired local Nords in Skyrim to fight Ulfric while the bulk of the Imperial forces remained with the border against the Dominion.

If I were a Thalmor general, that's not what I'd see as a victory. One meager military victory that got cancelled by guerrillas and a small uprising in the ass end of the Empire isn't a crushing advantage.

And humans, may I remind you, breed faster than elves. As long as they have coin and resources, they can raise future armies faster than the Thalmor do. The Thalmor elves can't raise armies as fast as the humans, and if they use the Khajiit and Wood Elves as cheap cannon fodder, those factions might withdraw from the Dominion. So again, the Empire can withstand having inconclusive draws when it comes to wars, while the Thalmor can't. The more men the Thalmor lose in these wars, the less powerful they are, and raising/breeding new Altmer armies is a mess because they don't breed as fast. Part of what got the Snow Elves scared of the humans in the first place is because the humans breed faster and have greater numbers.

Also, the Dominion barely has any support outside of their own base. Other High Elves are either ambivalent towards them, or actively hate them. Wood Elves like Malborn openly plot against them, while Khajiit traders dislike members of their own caravans who have ties to the Thalmor. This isn't ESO's Aldmeri Dominion, where the Thalmor not only have High Elves, but also Wood Elf Tree Thanes and Khajiit Chieftains as members. The Altmer are the only members of the Thalmor in the Fourth Era, and it's quite clear that they don't have much support outside of the Summerset Isles. Down to the point where they're slowly killing off Wood Elves for being racially inferior, and they had to trick the Khajiit into an alliance by convincing them that they returned the moon. What happens when that lie gets discovered, like all lies do? The Khajiit would tip over to the Empire and declare war on the Dominion, and with the balance of power between the Thalmor and the Empire already being razor-thin (hence the peace) that will end with the Empire winning against the Dominion.

If the Thalmor was as smart or badass as you claimed, they'd be ruling in Cyrodiil now, and the Empire would have been completely annihilated. The fact that they have to make peace with a "weak and dying empire" goes to show that the Dominion is also fragile. If they continued the war, then both the Empire and the Dominion would have collapsed. Both sides are injured giants licking their wounds.

And in the end, the Thalmor's pride will end up being their downfall, just the same as with the Stormcloaks, when they slowly run out of men while the Empire raises more fresh legions after every draw they get. Each draw will last what, 10-20 years? That's time enough for boys to grow into men and for the Empire to train new armies. Whereareas the Altmer Elves, never being numerous to begin with, will begin to have the mounting losses bear down on them. Just like with Robb Stark vs. Tywin Lannister, Robb was winning every battle but losing the logistics war. In the same vein, it doesn't matter how many victories the Thalmor win, because with each victory or defeat, the Thalmor lose manpower, and unlike the humans, elves can't replace lost soldiers as fast because they're not as fertile. They already have laws in the Summerset Isles that strictly govern the "purity" of their offspring, which means they won't be breeding like rabbits. And considering that their alliance with the Khajiit are based on lies, and their constant massacre of Valenwood Bosmeri leaves them with less people to draft from that province, then Imperial Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and High Rock will have more than enough manpower to sweep them clean. They'll only have two provinces to draw manpower on, and it'll be one if the Khajiit realize that they've been lied to. Against what, three provinces of the Empire's?

And once again, the magic gap between the two is being bridged rather quickly. All you people keep saying is that the Imperial magic organizations like the Synod and the College of Whispers are just politicians-but to politik, you have to have something valuable. You have to have something that the guys upstairs want. And both organizations do-the Synod has been gathering powerful magical items, while the College of Whispers has been training conjurers and necromancers. Far unlike Skyrim with its one mages' college and a single mage in each Jarl's court, the magic organizations of the Empire are obsessed with gaining greater power and influence in the Imperial court.........through gaining more power themselves, so they can be more useful for the Emperor and his minions.

If I were a Thalmor general, I wouldn't think that a fight against the Empire will be a curb-stomp battle. Rather, it'll be a war that's going to be long and nasty. Hence why, if I were a Thalmor general, I'd make doubly sure that the Stormcloaks win the war against the Empire. Perhaps send "pirates" and third party factions to supply the Nord rebels with enchanted items and weapons. That way, when they win, the Empire will be weakened, the Stormcloaks will be stretched thin, while we can sail a fleet up north to besiege the port cities of Windhelm and Solitude-Skyrim's most important cities.

I would also make several changes to the Dominion's policies as well, to ensure that it will win against the Empire:

1) Less stringent reproduction laws and codes, to help the Altmer speed up breeding soldiers for future wars.

2) Stop massacres in Valenwood, and offer Wood Elf Tree Thanes a place in the Thalmor organization. That way, we can instead draft their populace for war if the need arises.

3) Offer the protection of Thalmor soldiers for Khajiit caravans, and offer financial aid to Elsweyr, to ensure the loyalty of the cat-folk should they one day discover that the whole "restoring the moon" thing was a ruse. Also, as with the Wood Elves, offer Khajiit chieftains positions in the Thalmor organization, to get their people more involved in the Dominion armies.

4) Make official offers to Morrowind and Argonia for an alliance, and offer their leaders a spot on the Thalmor organization as well, so long as they remain allied with Alinor's interests and subject themselves to Alinor's power.

5) Make an official proclamation that the Dominion will not interfere in the lives of humans who do not resist its reign. No interference in personal freedoms, economy, or even religion. The Dominion reserves the right NOT to recognize Talos as a god, but it won't give a wet fart if humans or other races wish to worship him, in the similar way that the Dark Elves worship Azura and Boethiah. Which means that even Elf-hating Nords, even the Stormcloaks, will lose most of their drive to fight, and the more economic and pragmatic-minded humans will want peace with the Dominion instead.

6) Offer to make a permanent peace with the Empire if they vassalize themselves to the Dominion. Imperial Elder Council members, Nord Jarls, and Breton nobility can join the Thalmor organization so long as they vassalize themselves to the power of Alinor and the High Elves. That way, if the Empire declares war on the Dominion, the Dominion can claim to be the more civilized faction, having made a generous offer of peace that the Empire ignored. If the Empire accepts, then Tamriel will be united under the Dominion's rule, and we'll then focus on exploring Akavir instead.

But it's quite obvious that no Thalmor leader will accept these ideas, let alone support them. It's all "Elven Supremacy Uber Alles". In that case, they're basically smarter versions of Stormcloaks with aptitude for magic, but they're just as short-sighted and proud, qualities that can be used against you and can lead to your downfall.

The Altmer are smart, but they're not that smart. Their long-term plan of turning Ulfric into a sleeper agent was foiled by General Tullius-had it not been for Alduin giving the Thalmor a lucky break, the Skyrim Civil War that they worked so hard to arrange, what with them torturing Ulfric in mind and body as well as arranging for the ban on Talos worship in the peace treaty, would have all been for naught. Tullius would have had Ulfric's head, and the bloodshed that the Thalmor worked so hard to arrange would be for nothing. The Thalmor worked hard to get Hammerfell in the treaty, but that too was lost to them.

So, if it hadn't been for the Dragon Crisis weakening the Empire and Skyrim, the only permanent victory the Thalmor would have from the Great War would be the ban on Talos worship, which, if the civil war in Skyrim ended, will be something that a recovering Empire will not follow, especially if a bunch of Redguard yahoos managed to chase them out of Hammerfell. If I looked at that from the point of view of a Thalmor leader, that would hardly be equal to all the lives lost by the Dominion during the Great War. Their other plans, like securing a dragon mask from a tomb and using the Eye of Magnus against the world, were all foiled by some jackass who can yell in a magic language.

If it was mano-y-mano, with the Stormcloaks against the Dominion, then yes, the Dominion would crush them by the nuts. But with the Dominion massacring the people from one of their provinces, and with another province sated by a LIE, the Dominion itself is in rather shaky ground. The Thalmor forces can win a war against magic-hating Nords with Leeroy Jenkins attitudes. Against an Empire that has three provinces, though? Whose army outnumbers theirs, and whose magicians have been collecting magic artifacts and practicing necromancy and conjuration? At best, it will be a draw for the Dominion. At worst, it will slowly lead to the Dominion's loss. Imagine if the Imperials revealed to the Khajiit that they were lied to. Imagine if the Imperials invaded Valenwood, only to find many of the locals joining their cause. That would tip the scales over to the Empire's side.

And while the Dragonborn would be a minor nuisance for the Thalmor if they worked with the Stormcloaks, an Imperial Dragonborn, backed up by a massive army, is a threat. The Dominion is shaky enough as it is, and their balance of power with the Empire is also shaky. A freak who brings dragons to their side and can call down bad weather on a whim can change the tide and win the war for the Empire. Imagine the Dominion Fleet getting sunk by Storm Call. Imagine an Imperial Legion that can already match the Thalmor, pound for pound, getting dragons as reinforcements in a middle of a battle. It'll be like Aegon's Conquest all over again, except in this story, "Aegon", or shall we say, the Dragonborn, already starts off with a massive army, up against a fragile Dominion that has a smaller army with fair-weather friends as allies.

Even if the Dragonborn gets captured by the Dominion, it won't necessarily mean the end for the Empire. Take this situation, if you will: the Dragonborn has been captured by the Thalmor. How would the Empire or the Stormcloaks respond? The Stormcloaks would respond by sending an assault force to rescue the Dragonborn, which would be predictable to the elves and they'd just set up another trap so that the Dragonborn's would-be rescuers would wind up getting strung up on restraints and torture devices along with the person they're trying to rescue. The Empire? As per Tullius' tactics, they'd send in an infiltrator, probably an elf who hates the Thalmor like Legate Fasendil, disguise as the Altmer, undermine the defenses from within, rescue the Dragonborn, then signal for an attack so that when the elves are busy with looking for an escaped prisoner, they'd get caught with their pants down when the Imperials attack the place, giving the Dragonborn and their imperial rescuer time to escape.

And that, my friends, is why the Empire will win.