Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-77.98.203.197-20130414002939/@comment-1470368-20140624131355

Datadragon Odahviing wrote: I never said the LDB becomes the emperor. When did I say that? :P

Tullius can say they are preparing for another great war, unless, of course, he died. Tullius will die, Ulfric will also die, both during the CW. Also, gathering troops from Skyrim would be virtually impossible and only High rock can provide soldiers (and again they might not). You think that can stop axe crazy elves and catmen with so little people? Also, hammerfell will definitely not help, seeing they must of course rebuild, plus the empire can't help them with that due to the fact they have to rebuild themselves. Morrowind has enough problems with Black marsh, who has issues with Morrowind, invalidating help from both. Skyrim is already screwed up and High Rock is cut off and a chunk of guys there will probably go for a power grab (that's what warlords do when an empire is in the instability strip). If you don't have a Tiber Septim, you going to solve this problems?

I never missed you point. Beth has breathed life by creating nice main quests, but now that everything is degenerating into I VS the big bad, cue the cliche. Plus Tiber's Empire is gone, Mede has taken over by force (a dynastic change, which means the Septim empire is dead) and is crap at managing it. I just ignored your point as I know that part is very subjective (so I concede on it as well)

When the Thalmor won, I meant the military victory, never the final goal. They can't even achieve their final goal without a military victory. If the game is to be reasonable, the state of things must be reasonable and so naturally, to be reasonable, the Empire must crumble. The Empire cannot be cloistered in plot armor for ever! I don't like the Stormcloaks, I hate the Empire, I detest the Dominion. If the Empire lives, massive immersion break. It will just not make sense, unless it went like this (don't read it then call me a troll, its made as direct as possible on purpose):

Book: Pheonix of the Empire

Author: (some random imperial)

Content: All praise the Empire, for it will be in the Eternity...(insert flattering text)... And then the 3rd AD was on the brink of victory, when Emperor (Brother of Titus Mede's name) revealed he was the illicit descendent of Martin Septim. He vas visited in a dream by Akatosh, who taught him the way to shout...(insert storm call, fire breath, bend will blah blah)... and he led the army to victory with Boethiah's sword Goldbrand, a blade of...(insert sword porn)...that allowed him to rout the entire AD single handedly, clad in...(insert glorifying golden armor description)...that made him beyond mortal. The AD crumbeled under such unparalleled might that they all died of fear...(insert massacre scene)... and the new emperor was known as the second divine crusader. Praise the Emperor, long live the Empire.

Dude, if that happened, while not impossible lorewise, I'd be severly dissapointed. I want to go out and hunt elves, not stop another cosmic terror from consuming Tamriel. You did not mention the LDB becoming Emperor. However, I mentioned it in general as being an impossibility.

It is actually a possibility for both Skyrim & Hammerfell to aid the Empire in the Second Great War. All that needs be? Skyrim is reunified (as soon as possible), and Hammerfell has reason again to fight against the Thalmor (which really means Hammerfell does not need to be reunified with the Empire, and yes it is going through its own rebuilding phase...it's no longer an Imperial Province, which would present a problem for them if the Dominion does decide to invade them again). Black Marsh is currently strongly independent, and the Dunmer of Morrowind are now located up in both the city of Blacklight & the island of Solstheim (in reality still making Morrowind available :D)

The Empire does not need someone like Tiber Septim (e.g. Dragonborn), but it does need a worthy warlord to take up the mantle (an example of which was Titus Mede I). The Amulet of Kings is shattered, so there is no other way to really determine a worthy ruler, other than gauging their tactical prowess as a response to this current chaotic Era.

The story is also not quite "degenerating" into what you say. The Empire vs Dominion thing is still part of a Side-story to Main Quests, and if it even does have involvement in a Main Quest again? Most likely will have little involvement when concerned with a much bigger existential threat to all of Nirn.

Septim Empire = Mede Empire (as in, it's still the Third Empire). Tiber Septim himself (as Wulf) already mentioned in his own way that new people would eventually take up the reins of his Empire. As subjective as this small point may be, the Empire is still very much the same one as Martin Septim died leaving it.

Actually, the Thalmor can achieve final victory without military prowess, as evidenced by Skyrim itself (we don't even know if the Snow Tower is still active). If the Thalmor travel through High Rock under the Concordat? There's a good chance they'll get to deactivate the Adamantine Tower as well.

Back to the point:  "Reasonable" does indeed depend on what exactly the plot for the next game will be, which means that it does not have to involve the fall of the Empire by the next game to be such. Still...it is doubtful that this conflict will make it as the most important quest-line of the next game.

It is likely that you'll still be able to kill Thalmor & foil their plans in that certain Province. As the Empire is now, it has been focusing on recovery for 25 years (interrupted in Skyrim by Ulfric's Rebellion later on)...so it can still be reasonable that the Empire hasn't fallen yet even after the Thalmor scored more victories.

I have said this before, but it is not 100% guaranteed to translate as what would officially happen:  "If the Empire does fall?  Then the Dominion has already won, as now nothing can stop them from achieving final victory."

^ As is quite likely, a new Elder Scrolls game's plot actually would not be 'reasonable' if the Empire fell & the Thalmor are stiil around. Then there would be no united force strong enough to stop them from accomplishing what remains of their goals.