Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-9062114-20150428153757/@comment-4984687-20150510221710

Pelinal Whitestrake wrote: Undaril wrote: I agree, everyone treasts MK as if he is the father of all ES lore and was one of the original Devs. He only worked on Morrowind and a little but on Oblivion. A LOT of the lore was created in Daggerfall, it's not like it all started in Morrowind.

And I really hope Bethesda never includes any of his writings about Vehkships and mining robots. As for all the sex associated with Vivec, it seemed very unnecessary. As The Rim of the Sky said, MK just wrote whatever the hell he wanted just because of the fact that he could. Please, inform yourself before stating something like this. MK worked on Morrowind, Redguard, Oblivion's main quest, Knights of the Nine and his work still influences TES games. Barely anything was created in Daggerfall. While there was, indeed, far more original stuff in it than it was the case in TES I: Arena - Daggerfall was still merely a polished D&D game made into a PC game. The current lore, which is also featured within Skyrim, was created in Morrowind and Redugard. Kurt Kuhlmann and Michael Kirkbride created substantial parts of it, and that includes the Daedric Princes, the Aedra, pretty much anything about the Dunmer, the Tribunal, and so on; a quite hefty example would be the Daedric Princes, as Sheogorath wasn't even counted as one of them in Daggerfall and lived in Aetherius, more specifically the Mantellan Crux. Want prove? Sheogorath directly tells the player in Shivering Isles that he will mantle him - who made the Mantling concept along with all the other Walking Ways? Michael Kirkbride. The Commentaries on the Mysterium of Xarxes and pretty much anything involving the Amulet of Kings in Oblivion? Michael Kirkbride. Dragonborn people? Michael Kirkbride. Any modern lore in the TES series is atleast indirectly connected to MK and Kurt Kuhlmann, and there is no way to go around that, as even Bethesda still actively looks for their advice and takes what they write into the series.

You'd also probably be quite surprised at the amount of sexual, including same-sex and orgies, religious literature existing IRL. The Sermons are really nothing compared to some, for example, egyptian and asian mythological/religious texts. You've gone quite out of your way on defending MK. This is just what I was talking about, his fans agree with everything he writes, denounce everything he didn't write as crap, and say he basically created the series. Please educate yourself, Sheogorath was considered a Daedric prince in Daggerfall. In the summoning rituals, he actually had the likeliest chance of appearing since there was a 5% chance of him giving you his quest in the place of another Daedric Prince. He was just visiting Aetherius. Kirkbride ruined the Aedra, in Daggerfall there were books about them which gave evidence that they had actual power. In the later games, they just became figureheads, couldn't do shit since they had "sacrificed themselves". The races were improved after Daggerfall, I didn't see how anyone like pre-Redguard Khajiit and the Dunmer along with the other races were barely given a backstory prior. If you're going to bring up the sexual content in religious literature as a back-up, you should keep in mind this is a video game series, not a cult.

MK created some good things, but a lot of stupid things. The whole "Yokuda is the past, Atmora is the future, water is memory, Talos is 3 people, etc." are just some examples. I'm not even going to get started on how much damage C0DA did, this is a discussion on what lore we didn't like, not a discussion on whether we like or dislike Kirkbride, so I'll just stop this argument here.