Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-1600847-20161103125247/@comment-26893431-20161108194001

Terawolf119 wrote: ''' The Stormcloaks are not wasting Skyrim's resources! '''

From the Imperial perspective, Ulfric is causing this war by revolting, and they’re keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim by fighting Ulfric and preventing Talos worship.

Ulfric did not start this war. Ulfric knew that the Imperials would react the way they did, yes, but that does not make him the starter of this war. Torygg accepted his duel, he allowed Ulfric, a Jarl to challenge him directly. Even if this duel is against Imperial law, the King of Skyrim allowed it anyway.

Skyrim law allows the Jarls to challenge the king or queen of Skyrim to a duel, and if the King is slain, a moot is called and then a new king or queen is decided. This law may be in contradiction with Imperial law, but it was never officially declared illegal. You might think that Empire law automatically overrules Skyrim law, but consider that in the Empire, slavery is illegal, and yet the Dunmer of Morrowind were allowed to continue the practice regardless. That shows that province law is only stomped on when inconvenient to the Empire, and allowing the Jarls of Skyrim to decide for themselves who would be King was completely out of the question.

That is what the Empire did. They did not come to make Ulfric answer for the death of Torygg, or they’d address the duel and call it illegal. They don’t even call it a duel, they call it outright murder. They don’t even acknowledge the existence of the duel, though the Solitude court does.

Why? Because if they did, they’d have to bring up the fact that they are impeding on Skyrim law and that by Skyrim law, what Ulfric did was legal. And that the Imperials are overruling Skyrim law because it is inconvenient to have a King that dislikes the Empire and wishes them to secede.

And if they did secede, the Thalmor would be removed from Skyrim altogether, and anyone that’s read my previous entries know that logistically, the Thalmor cannot invade Skyrim anyway, so the Empire do not in fact keep the Empire out, they are in fact the sole reason the Thalmor are there in the first place.

So lets be clear on that from the get go. Ulfric is not the one who pushed things to war, that was a decision made by the Empire because they want to hold onto their power. Why, because they’re more concerned about themselves, meaning Cyrodiil than the betterment of the entire Empire. Bethesda made that clear when they retconned Chancellor Ocato’s words, that the Empire went to protect their provinces during the Oblivion Crisis. It is either a retcon or a bold faced lie, which we learned ourselves in the Dragonborn DLC:

The Dragonborn- “ Why do the Dunmer hate the Empire?”

Adril Arano- “During the Oblivion Crisis, gates to the plane of Oblivion opened all over Morrowind. The Empire pulled most of its forces out of Morrowind to deal with the gates in their own homeland, leaving us virtually defenseless. We had no standing army at the time, just uncoordinated pockets of resistance.”

The Dragonborn- “ How did the Dunmer survive this at all?”

Adril Arano- “House Redoran took charge and was slowly able to build an army. It took years, but it became a force to be reckoned with. When the Argonians invaded years later, House Redoran’s army was able to prevent them from sweeping across all of Morrowind. It would be fair to say that House Redoran literally saved the Dunmer people from destruction.”

Moving on, the Empire not only is too selfish to protect anyone but themselves, but also are not the benevolent caretakers of Nords or anybody. They only want to preserve Cyrodiil’s power, and they will sacrifice and bleed dry everyone else to do so.

They showed that when they abandoned Hammerfell to the Thalmor when they refused the White Gold Concordat, even when legion soldiers refused to abandon them before during the war despite their orders to leave them to protect Cyrodiil, and they did so again when they couldn’t even be bothered to send soldiers to do their own dirty work.

And yes I know they say they can’t because they’re watching their southern border, so their answer instead is to run Skyrim’s economy and resources into the ground to protect their own interests, at the cost of Nord lives and money with little or no sacrifices of their own? They literally sent one of their men to go to Skyrim and demand Elisif use her hold’s resources to start a war with Ulfric and interrupt the moot. Here’s the proof:

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000a9392

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000367f7

Conversation 1:

Erikur: “I’ve heard the Empire plans to levy a tax on our trading ships. Falk, you’ve got to do something about this.”

Falk: “General Tullius needs more money for the war effort. We need the funds to arm and provision more troops.”

Erikur: “Then let’s increase the taxes on the farms and merchants. We can’t afford to lose the loyalty of the ship captains.”

Falk: “We know full well about your investment in shipping ventures, Erikur. I’ve also heard troubling rumors about dealings between you and the crew of that pirate ship, the Red Wave. Thankfully, Jarl Elisif cares far less about your lost profits than she does about winning the war!”

Erikur: “The Jarl would be wise to remember that it is her thanes - and my profits - that are paying for this war.”

Conversation 2:

Elisif: “As you know, Solitude’s coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. Thane Erikur, you have a strong head for business. What do you suggest?”

Erikur: “This is an unfortunate but unavoidable ebb in revenue. But as long as we continue to support the Empire, our sacrifices will be well rewarded.”

Bryling: “Listen to you, speaking of sacrifice. You’ve never gone hungry a day in your life, Erikur!”

Elisif: “And what would my impetuous Thane Bryling suggest, instead?”

Bryling: “Simple. Let the Empire fight its own war, with its own funds, and without hijacking our supplies and soldiers. Let Haafingar rebuild.”

Erikur: “My lady… Surely you’re not that naive. Such foolishness would only leave us defenseless. The rebels would storm the palace in an afternoon.”

Bryling: “The Stormcloaks only rebel because the Empire uses Skyrim as its personal larder. The more they take, the more support the rebels gain!”

Elisif: “That is quite enough. Perhaps I will raise these issues when I have an audience with General Tullius.”

I posted about this earlier here:

http://colonelkillabee.tumblr.com/post/143548990670/here-we-go-again

After a good friend of mine named Tdroid found this dialogue and shared it with me. Wish we were aware of this years ago but there it is.

The Empire can’t even be bothered to fight their own battles, instead they use the resources and people of the Bank of Skyrim for their war mongering. If they really wanted to do what was best for the greater good and to defeat the elves, they’d have let the moot take its course, and unite with an independent Skyrim if Ulfric won, having an ally against the elves with full resources and a full army free of the casualties of a civil war because the Empire couldn’t let go of their source of free silver and bodies to protect themselves.

So who’s really wasting resources here? Who’s really serving the Thalmor’s wishes? Probably the guys that gave them a fucking Embassy in Skyrim, and hint, it wasn’t Ulfric.

First of all, Ulfric did start the Civil War, aside from that, the Empire never once claimed they keep the Thalmor out. Don't believe me? Talk to Vulwulf Snow-Shod or read the quotes from Imperial Soldiers.

The Civil War was already ongoing a few years prior to Torygg's death. Aside from that, Ulfric cheated in the duel, so murder regardless.

Comparing Skyrim to Morrowind is irrelevant. Morrowind got conqeured through treaty, Skyrim through conquest. The Jarls have always decided who was High King, at least, after some point in the First Era.

It was murder, a challenge or not doesn't matter. If I challenge you to a game of cards and kill you, everyone will call me a murderer but will you hear people say 'they don't call it a challenge'? No! Why? Because it's not their problem that it was a challenge, what matters is that it's murder.

Why do you think it's called the old Nord way and not just the Nord way? Because it's not practiced anymore, at least, not in general. The fact that Torygg accepted shows his honor. Also, the King of Hammerfell seceded, so why would he not be picked by the Empire, but the one in Skyrim would be?

Yes the Dominion can invade Skyrim, the bloody sea for the millionth time.

Ulfric already started the war years prior to Torygg's death. House Redoran, your source of anti-Empire propaganda since the Second bloody Era. Adril Arano is without a doubt spreading lies to make people hate the Empire. Ocato has no reason to lie and his words are confirmed by a Count who hates Ocato. Said Count (Count of Bravil) states that 'Ocato and the Elder Council are too concerned with the other provinces, leaving the Cyrodiil to fend for itself.' Ah, but of course, the biased Stormcloak would rather take the Redoran propaganda over the truth.

Prove it, you have nothing to prove it, like most Stormcloaks.

I do hope you realise that the Imperial City was a bit more important than Hammerfell. Ever heard of The Culling? Not to forget, if the Dominion kept pushing in Cyrodiil the results would be much worse.

The Civil War is which is making Skyrim lose its resources, not the Empire. Also, plans not is. Also, Haafingar supports the Empire, so it's only logical they back them with resources. When you support one side in a war you contribute. I was long aware of your 'economy' quotes.

Skyrim is an Imperial Province, they have the right to make use of its troops and resources. And it's not the Empire that's keeping your precious Moot from meeting, it's Ulfric, but that's another fact you choose to ignore.

No, probably the guy that drew them to Skyrim, aka, Ulfric.