Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-26213507-20150715194939/@comment-26356342-20150925192420

Bronkiin wrote: The question of who is more accepting is irrelevant if being so still leaves racial tensions so entrenched.

There were only racial tensions because the Nords were left to govern themselves, and until recently with very little Imperial interference. The Imperial Jarls tend to be more open-minded and want to change the way the Nords see the other races, its pretty progressive. We see it with Brunwulf trying to bridge the gap between the nords, the dunmer and argonians. We see it with Kraldar, who is more open to magic and sees it as a useful tool. With leaders like these in charge they can help the rest of their respective Holds come around to being more open minded, and not make outlanders feel unwelcome.

You ask "what good does making enemies based solely on race do?". Wait a minute, who is making enemies based on race? While I've heard it argued that there are racial elements to the Stormcloak uprising, I've never heard it argued that the rebellion was launched on racial grounds.

This was a poor choice of words on my part, I apologize. I guess what I mean is more, losing potential troops, and possibly allies. We see with the way others speak about the Stormcloaks they're being viewed more and more as being a Nord only faction, which leaves out all the Orcs living in Skyrim, all the bretons within the Reach, all the Dunmer Refugees and the rest of the non-nord population who have only ever lived in Skyrim. It just seems (to me) like they're shooting themselves in the foot by acting this way, and losing any sort of potential ally before its even brought up. I get that to them it's more symbolic and such, and they only want people dedicated to "the cause" but if Ulfric were to just do something like offer full citizenship benefits, plus living wages to any and all refugees willing to fight, it would not only help restore relations with the Dunmer, but also solve the gray quarter problem, and bolster your army's numbers. They don't want to fight now as it stands because it seems like they only care about nords, but if you were to tell them "we will feed and house your family properly if you fight for us" you've given them something to fight for.

Equally, I hardly think that their attitude to outsiders is costing them men, simply because how many outsiders actually are there in Skyrim who care enough about the conflict to join either side? I would say theres plenty of non-nords living within Skyrim. Like i had mentioned above, all the Orcs and Bretons, etc etc, The Stormcloaks dont even try to appeal to any of them so we don't really know if they'd be willing to fight. Seems to me tho, anyone would be willing to fight for the freedom of their homeland. it's a noble goal and purpose. Ulfric could become blood kin (personally) in order to speak with the Orc Elders to work out some sort of deal, where they exchange larger portions of land for men. then they'd have Orc Berserkers with their Nords. Each missed opportunity like this costs them. And down the road, it could cause tensions to grow. I know I'd feel a little on edge if a bunch of Nords with a pro Nord agenda suddenly gained independence.

Ulfric is no fool and will not spurn the opportunity to side with Hammerfell, and possibly, in the future, with the Empire in a Second Great War. I'm honestly not sure why people still think Hammerfell with join the Stormcloaks. We have no reason to believe they're even interested in an invasion south. They seem to mostly just care about their own lands, and part of that would be not allowing Nords who are known to try and take their lands, in to help them. Especially when they don't need help. On top of that The Redguards are just as distrustful as the Nords are. What do they offer to forge an alliance? cuz it can't just be mutual hatred of the Dominion, its going to take more then that. I could see the Empire accepting help from Skyrim, but I do not see Skyrim offering the help to begin with. The whole point of their rebellion was to prove they were stronger than the Empire, and how they didn't need the Empire. How do they go from killing scores of legionaries to helping them?

Skyrim will field a larger army if the WGC is not in place than if it were. Economically, an independent Skyrim would be better off as currently its resources are being drained to rebuild a decimated Empire. How does the WGC effect the number of people fighting for Skyrim? It wasnt stopping anyone from fighting or joining either side. And you believe that Skyrim losing its entire Economy is somehow better then the current economy that had Trade and commerce flowing during a rebuilding effort? The Empire isn't leeching the resources, no one is gifting anything. Balgruuf himself will say how SKyrim needs trade with the Empire, not the other way around. Skyrim and High Rock both prospered during the great war, theres no huge debts they're left with paying for, if anything with the state of Cyrodiil they have guaranteed trade with the south for a long while, while everything is getting rebuilt. The EETC will take full advantage of Skyrim while it tries to transition, with losing the Empire as its base economy. They've proven they will charge whatever they want simply because they can, and Skyrim in its current state and after losing its economy isnt in a position to turn them down. They will NEED trade to flow once they lose the Empire. I'm not suggesting the EETC would cease all trade, they could if they (the Empire) wanted to use that as a war tactic but its more likely they'll raise the price on everything, and THAT will bleed Skyrim.