Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-10197675-20130806142227/@comment-77.182.125.190-20131220203741

Ralok wrote:

89.245.235.64 wrote:

Ralok wrote:

89.245.235.64 wrote:

Ralok wrote:

89.245.238.71 wrote:

Ralok wrote: man you bring up the Thalmor and the Greybeards and that isnt even remotely what the hell I am even talking about. That stuff was created pre-redguard for gods sakes!

Stuff Kirkbride created during his time with the company, that was put into the games... is without a doubt canon, the stuff he created during the time he worked... that wasnt put into the game... is potentially canon.

Stuff he created after he left the company... not canon! Why? because he doesnt own the intellectual property of the elder scrolls and thus has no legal right to add to its canon... its fanon.

If Bethesda wants to throw in a reference to his fanon here and there that is there right... but until it is absolutely set in stone beyond a shadow of a doubt and stated explicitly that it is canon... then it isnt.

Did Bethesda ever say that his stuff isn't canon? No. And as long as they don't say that, his writings can be considered canon. Besides, everyone has their own headcanon. Maybe it isn't canon for you , but it certainly is canon for me and many other people who enjoy the nice and deep things MK adds to the TES lore. And fact is that we wouldn't be talking about Numidium if it weren't for MK's 'fan-fiction'. you dont have to say something is not canon when it is not published, distributed, or created by the holders of an intellectual property.

The holders of the property have to go out of their way to SAY its canon, not to say its not canon.

Your logic is completely OPPOSITE! MICHEAL KIRKBRIDE DOESNT OWN THE ELDER SCROLLS INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY! And what is headcanon and what is not is completely irrelevent to anything, because that is just fan fiction.

FAN FICTION IS IRRELEVANT TO WHAT IS CANON! You nor kirkbride nor anyone else gets to say what is, and isnt CANON the owners ofthe intellectual property get that final say.

Dont like it, eat a brick and get the heck away from the franchise. Because if you dont like the canon or the story, what the heck is even the point? Wow, I've never seen someone rage so hard when discussing if something is canon. Man, you are immature.

Allright, I'll explain it SLOW for you, so that you can understand it:

Bethesda didn't say anything about MKs lore and they never stated what exactly is canon. You know what this means? ''That MKs stuff can be considered canon if you want to have it in your headcanon and that Bethesda still uses what he writes. ''

The Elder Scrolls doesn't need narrow-minded fans like you who can't think outside of the box and want the same medievel stuff that's been around since the beginning of gaming history to be copied into every single game. You are wrong... it literally cannot be considered canon unless it is specifically stated it is canon.

You cant say something is canon in any sense when it was not produced, dstributed, or approved of by the owners of the elders scrolls franchise.

Which means, according to your logic, that all lore which was created by Bethesdas current writers can't be considered canon either. Because they didn't say what lore is canon.

As I already said three times, Bethesda never stated what is canon. And you aren't Bethesda. You don't know what the writers know and if Bethesda still consults MK from time to time.

That is what I have been trying to say!

'By the way why did Kirkbride leave Bethesda? Did he leave for his own reasons? Are we 100% sure he wasnt laid off because they found is writing unsatisfactory?'

Because honestly most of what he has written post-employment seems like the bitter retcons of a scorned fan.

MK left Bethesda because of his own reasons. He wasn't fired. Hell, Bethesda even hired him a second time during the creation of Knights of the Nine. And "unsatisfactory" ? Really? The stuff that MK and Kurt Kuhlmann (who also left Bethesda after Morrowind) created is the most unique lore in recent fantasy games. Please, ignore your obvious MK hate and be objective. It was an honest question about why he no longer works there dude, I dont hate hate Micheal Kirkbride exactly but its important to ahve context in this conversation.

and no, by my logic... anything that any current elder scrolls writer creates is canon, but if tehy leave the company... as in... NO LONGER WORKING THERE... and then they write something... then that something CANNOT be considered canon.

because they created it.... AFTER the time they were allowed to create something. Employees possess certain rights and abilities, when they are no longer employees they lose those rights and abilities.

You cant just go into the back room of Best Buy grab a box and start stocking the shelf after you quit your job and say "no its okay I used to work here"

According to my logic, ANYTHING THAT IS PRODUCED DISTRIBUTED AND APPROVED BY THE OWNERS OF THE ELDER SCROLLS IS CANON! Because taht is what canon is in its bare bones definition, something of legitimate creation.

they dont need to say that the stuff they created counts because it automatically counts. George lucas didnt have to say "star wars empire strikes back counts!" As far as I know, canon means that for example event X is in the official timeline of the story.

Heh, I really like MKs own description about canon:

Tamriel never belonged to Bethesda. It was the other way around.

As for canon, it's really all interactive fiction, and that should mean something to everyone. That said, I appreciate and understand the stamp of "official", but I think it will hurt more that it will help in the long run.

TES should be Open Source. It is for me.

IMO, he's right.