The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot/Log December 2018


 * 20:33:51: Atvelonis: ahhhhhhh
 * 20:33:56: Atvelonis: I'm here
 * 20:34:05: Masidillia: Finally :)
 * 20:34:07: The Great Laggi: ATV!
 * 20:34:12: DaBarkspawn:
 * 20:34:14: The-Nord-In-Rags: DADVE
 * 20:35:12: The Great Laggi: shall we begin?
 * 20:35:41: KINMUNE: Hello there, Pelinal Whitestrake!
 * 20:35:48: Atvelonis: o/
 * 20:35:51: The Great Laggi: hello
 * 20:35:51: Pelinal Whitestrake: Hello
 * 20:35:52: Atvelonis: Yes, let's begin
 * 20:35:55: KINMUNE: Hello there, TheKorraFanatic!
 * 20:36:00: DaBarkspawn: yes, please, would like to get back to editing
 * 20:36:06: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 20:36:10: Atvelonis: I forgot about the time change
 * 20:36:15: Atvelonis: Thought I still had half an hour :P
 * 20:36:18: Masidillia: silly goose
 * 20:36:39: Atvelonis: Anyway: we only have one officially scheduled topic for this week
 * 20:36:50: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: oh shit :o
 * 20:36:50: Atvelonis: DaBarkspawn's
 * 20:36:55: Atvelonis: You can go ahead when you're ready
 * 20:37:09: The Great Laggi: i like this time of year because my alarm is actually accurate
 * 20:37:24: The Great Laggi: it is normally one hour behind
 * 20:37:29: Atvelonis: (If anyone has other topics, or just random ideas/things they want to mention, also feel free to speak once this topic is over)
 * 20:37:36: DaBarkspawn: In Arena and Daggerfall, mer names are not used in games. The dwarves are not called dwemer, high elves, not altmer, etc. There are no uses of mer names in the manuals for either game.

So, I would like to propose for pages that are strictly for those games that the mer names are not used and changed from dwemer to dwarf, etc. as we go. https://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:1031167 Are they not selling plush guar/netches anymore? Time to remove unnecessary trivia points from Skyrim articles
 * 20:38:07: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 20:38:24: The Beautiful Princess Ashley: sounds reasonable
 * 20:38:38: KINMUNE: Hello there, TinyClayMan!
 * 20:38:41: TinyClayMan: Hello
 * 20:38:42: The Great Laggi: hello!
 * 20:38:52: Atvelonis: So Altmer -> High Elf, Dunmer -> Dark Elf, Bosmer -> Wood Elf?
 * 20:38:53: TinyClayMan: Am I not too late?
 * 20:38:57: Atvelonis: And Dwemer -> Dwarf
 * 20:39:00: Atvelonis: No we started late because I forgot
 * 20:39:01: DaBarkspawn: Atv: right
 * 20:39:05: Dwemer35: Hello
 * 20:39:07: Atvelonis: Any others?
 * 20:39:19: Atvelonis: Orsimer -> Orc? Not sure if we use Orsimer for AR/DF as it is
 * 20:39:25: The Great Laggi: this will be short lol
 * 20:39:34: Masidillia: I guess I have something
 * 20:39:50: Atvelonis: When were the -mer names implemented?
 * 20:39:56: Atvelonis: I'm curious if we should also apply this to Battlespire and Redguard
 * 20:39:57: DaBarkspawn: Yeah, orsimer needs to be Orc
 * 20:40:03: Atvelonis: & travels etc
 * 20:40:07: DaBarkspawn: Oh, good point
 * 20:40:17: DaBarkspawn: Yes, this applies to everything before Morrowind
 * 20:40:29: DaBarkspawn: which is where, AFAICT, they were first used.
 * 20:41:10: Atvelonis: Seems to have been non-mer in Battlespire
 * 20:41:10: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: all of those sound good
 * 20:41:16: Atvelonis: I'll check Redguard and Travels just to be safe
 * 20:41:21: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 20:42:37: Atvelonis: I think Shadowkey does not use -mer
 * 20:42:49: Atvelonis: 2004
 * 20:42:54: Atvelonis: Which is odd
 * 20:42:58: The Great Laggi: check just to be safe
 * 20:43:10: Atvelonis: Don't have the game, I'm just checking online where I can
 * 20:43:15: DaBarkspawn: Yeah, Morrowind was 2002
 * 20:43:29: Atvelonis: https://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Races_(Shadowkey)
 * 20:43:34: Atvelonis: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:Races
 * 20:44:25: Atvelonis: I don't think Dawnstar has races
 * 20:44:29: The Great Laggi: ok
 * 20:44:38: Atvelonis: Nor Stormhold
 * 20:44:48: Atvelonis: So for Shadowkey yes we can use High Elf etc. rather than Altmer
 * 20:44:49: DaBarkspawn: That's slightly MW influenced though, since the Khajiit look like cats and there are Argonians (Lizard Men in Arena)
 * 20:45:28: DaBarkspawn: (that == Shadowkey)
 * 20:45:41: The Beautiful Princess Ashley: aren't argonians called argonians in arena?
 * 20:45:52: DaBarkspawn: Lizard Men
 * 20:45:57: DaBarkspawn: Very D&D
 * 20:46:40: Atvelonis: So are you saying we should use Altmer for Shadowkey anyway?
 * 20:46:48: Atvelonis: Since Morrowind uses those terms
 * 20:46:52: DaBarkspawn: No
 * 20:47:05: Atvelonis: mmm
 * 20:47:05: DaBarkspawn: If the game doesn't, we shouldn't
 * 20:47:34: DaBarkspawn: I think Shadowkey is an aberration in the timeline
 * 20:47:49: Atvelonis: Yeah I would tend to agree
 * 20:47:53: Atvelonis: Travels in general
 * 20:47:59: DaBarkspawn: +1
 * 20:48:28: The Great Laggi: (+)
 * 20:48:52: Atvelonis: So to summarize: this proposal is to change the racial terminology for Mer in some of the older games (Arena, Daggerfall, Battlespire, Redguard, Shadowkey/Travels). Altmer -> High Elf, Dunmer -> Dark Elf, Bosmer -> Wood Elf, Orsimer -> Orc, Dwemer -> Dwarf.
 * 20:48:58: Atvelonis: Vote
 * 20:48:59: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 20:49:32: Poisoned apples: (+)
 * 20:49:38: DaBarkspawn: {+}
 * 20:49:46: Masidillia: (+)
 * 20:49:50: DaBarkspawn: ( + )
 * 20:50:03: The-Nord-In-Rags:
 * 20:50:06: DaBarkspawn: ty
 * 20:50:09: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 20:50:11: Atvelonis: It's not a template
 * 20:50:15: DaBarkspawn: (+)
 * 20:50:17: DaBarkspawn: thanks
 * 20:50:25: Atvelonis: (will only count votes that are done this way)
 * 20:50:26: Dwemer35: I agree only about the pre-Morrowind
 * 20:50:36: Atvelonis: 4-0-0
 * 20:50:41: The-Nord-In-Rags: (+)
 * 20:50:46: TinyClayMan: (+)
 * 20:51:11: Atvelonis: 6-0-0
 * 20:51:27: DaBarkspawn: By the way, here's an illustration from original D&D of a lizard man (1974) :
 * 20:52:16: Dwemer35: So I guess I'm neutral
 * 20:52:25: DaBarkspawn: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Zc_HCu9XmvE/T-pMhiYW4NI/AAAAAAAAAP8/X3RgeWb25So/s1600/trampier+-+lizardman.jpg
 * 20:52:25: Atvelonis: Neutral vote is (=)
 * 20:52:31: Dwemer35: (=)
 * 20:52:35: Atvelonis: 6-1-0
 * 20:53:18: Atvelonis: Helllooo lurkers please vote
 * 20:53:22: Super Skrub: (+)
 * 20:53:53: Atvelonis: @Finelia, slug man, Pelinal, Laggi, Korra
 * 20:54:33: Atvelonis: (will give a minute or two more and then we can move on)
 * 20:54:42: Nekyn Alb: Using the name the game uses?
 * 20:54:58: Atvelonis: Yes
 * 20:55:02: Nekyn Alb: (+)
 * 20:55:05: Atvelonis: 7-1-0
 * 20:55:30: TheKorraFanatic: (+)
 * 20:55:59: Atvelonis: 8-1-0
 * 20:56:20: Pelinal Whitestrake: (-)
 * 20:56:28: Atvelonis: 8-1-1
 * 20:56:42: Pelinal Whitestrake: I'd say the naming should be kept uniform across all relevant articles, even if it might not be logical in the sense of the specific game.
 * 20:57:06: KINMUNE: Hello there, Blademaster Jauffre!
 * 20:57:09: Pelinal Whitestrake: If naming is kept uniform, that way confusion can be minimized. In the end, the actual naming of the species in the game can/should be pointed out in the opening of the article.
 * 20:57:12: Atvelonis: Hi Jauffre
 * 20:57:17: Blademaster Jauffre: Is Moot still ongoing?
 * 20:57:20: The Great Laggi: Hi jauffre
 * 20:57:22: The Great Laggi: yes
 * 20:57:23: Atvelonis: Yes we are just finishing up with our first topic
 * 20:57:24: DaBarkspawn: hi
 * 20:57:27: Blademaster Jauffre: Gr8
 * 20:58:10: Atvelonis: This is the only scheduled topic - though I think Masidillia mentioned that he had something
 * 20:58:22: Masidillia: Yeah, I have something
 * 20:58:26: Blademaster Jauffre: I had something in the back of my mind, but can't recall what it was rn
 * 20:58:33: Atvelonis: You can go when you are ready
 * 20:59:03: Nekyn Alb: @Pelinal: It's easier to connect when you're actually playing that game atm and the name will link to the modern names anyway
 * 20:59:57: DaBarkspawn: good point
 * 21:00:12: Pelinal Whitestrake: I'm personally of the opinion that the most up-to-date lore is what matters, rather than what an individual game said in its time
 * 21:00:21: DaBarkspawn: ok
 * 21:00:31: Nekyn Alb: It matters in the context
 * 21:00:39: DaBarkspawn: I agree, Nekyn
 * 21:00:59: DaBarkspawn: I think using the game names has greater utility for the average reader.
 * 21:01:07: The-Nord-In-Rags: I also agree with Nekyn
 * 21:01:12: The Great Laggi: Yes
 * 21:01:17: Blademaster Jauffre: Agree
 * 21:01:44: Masidillia: So on the top of the screen, it has tabs for ESO, Skyrim, and Games. In the games tab there is an other tab, which has some of the mobile games such as ES travels and Legends. I think Blades should be added to the other category thing, because as the time of its release gets closer, more people are going to be wanting to get see information on it. Blades currently isn't on any of the tabs, so I think it should be added to the other part of the games tab.
 * 21:02:06: Masidillia: I probably didn't explain it well
 * 21:02:17: Atvelonis: Do you mean the wiki navigation?
 * 21:02:20: Blademaster Jauffre: Shouldn't Blades content be rather limited until we have confirmation on the options?
 * 21:02:26: Atvelonis: https://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation
 * 21:02:44: Atvelonis: I agree that it should be linked at least once
 * 21:02:55: Atvelonis: In the "Other" section of "Games" probably
 * 21:03:14: Masidillia: I didn't know what it was called, but what Atve is saying is what I meant
 * 21:03:58: Atvelonis: I also agree with Jauffre that we should not link to it elsewhere though, at least not until it is released
 * 21:04:05: Atvelonis: Since we know very little about it - even what we do know could change
 * 21:04:11: DaBarkspawn: Are we done with the first vote?
 * 21:04:31: Nekyn Alb: Yes
 * 21:04:36: DaBarkspawn: ty
 * 21:05:02: Masidillia: But it is likely that people will want the given information easily accessible instead of having to search it
 * 21:05:10: Atvelonis: Yes it passed 8-1-1 @dab
 * 21:05:36: DaBarkspawn: ty
 * 21:06:04: Atvelonis: @Mas: yes, but we mostly only link very big releases outside of the "Games" section
 * 21:06:25: Masidillia: Even in the "others" part?
 * 21:06:33: Atvelonis: No there is room there
 * 21:06:39: Atvelonis: There just isn't room for a first-level link to Blades
 * 21:06:42: Atvelonis: Since there is limited horizontal space we've reserved it for Skyrim and ESO
 * 21:08:10: Atvelonis: Are there any questions about this proposal or are we good to go?
 * 21:08:16: DaBarkspawn: Would the Skyrim space get bumped when the TES VI comes out?
 * 21:08:23: DaBarkspawn: (whenever that is...)
 * 21:08:25: Atvelonis: yeeeess maybe not sure
 * 21:08:31: DaBarkspawn: lol
 * 21:08:38: Atvelonis: I don't actually know how far to the right text is allowed
 * 21:08:53: Atvelonis: There is some whitespace to the right of "Discuss," so I assume we could squeeze in a link to TES VI... but idk
 * 21:09:02: Atvelonis: We'll cross that bridge when we get to it
 * 21:09:06: DaBarkspawn: kk
 * 21:09:14: Masidillia: That's not what I mean. On the Games part to the right of Skyrim and ESO, there's the main games in the series. At the bottom under Lore, there's other, that has Legends and Elder Scrolls travels. In that part of it, should be Blades.
 * 21:09:16: Nekyn Alb: You can't make another tab there
 * 21:09:22: DaBarkspawn: if you used alt-tags, it would be alt-right... ;)
 * 21:09:32: Nekyn Alb: unless you work around wikia's limitations
 * 21:09:35: Atvelonis: @Nekyn: no I know, but that content would be pushed to the right
 * 21:09:42: Atvelonis: @Masidillia: ok
 * 21:09:59: Masidillia: Did that make more sense? I'm bad at explaining stuff like that
 * 21:10:03: Atvelonis: No I understand
 * 21:10:06: Masidillia: Ok
 * 21:10:06: Nekyn Alb: I mean that you can't put it anywhere, the tabs you have are the max amount
 * 21:10:28: Atvelonis: We'll figure it out when it comes out
 * 21:10:32: Atvelonis: We've got like 4 years
 * 21:10:50: Atvelonis: To summarize, before we vote: this proposal would have us add a link to The Elder Scrolls: Blades in the "Other" section of the "Games" tab on MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation
 * 21:10:53: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:11:00: Nekyn Alb: (+)
 * 21:11:03: Dwemer35: (+)
 * 21:11:13: The-Nord-In-Rags: (+)
 * 21:11:21: Atvelonis: 4-0-0
 * 21:11:24: DaBarkspawn: (+)
 * 21:11:39: Poisoned apples: (+)
 * 21:11:54: Blademaster Jauffre:
 * 21:11:58: Blademaster Jauffre: feck''
 * 21:12:02: Blademaster Jauffre:
 * 21:12:04: Blademaster Jauffre: Feck
 * 21:12:08: Blademaster Jauffre: How do I vote lmaop
 * 21:12:12: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:12:16: Blademaster Jauffre: (+)
 * 21:12:18: Atvelonis: 7-0-0
 * 21:12:26: Atvelonis: Or (support) I think
 * 21:12:29: Atvelonis: I forget
 * 21:12:55: Blademaster Jauffre: As did I lol
 * 21:13:07: Atvelonis: @Finelia, Pelinal, TinyClayMan
 * 21:13:26: TinyClayMan: (=)
 * 21:14:08: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: oh shit I missed the vote
 * 21:14:27: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: (+)
 * 21:14:31: The Great Laggi: (+)
 * 21:14:35: Masidillia: Thanks
 * 21:14:57: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: I would also like to (+) the other one but probably too late
 * 21:15:01: Atvelonis: 9-1-0
 * 21:15:04: Atvelonis: Too late, sorry
 * 21:15:28: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: yeh well it passed anyway
 * 21:15:35: DaBarkspawn: AUUUUGH! WHERE YOU WHEN I NEEDED YOU??? :P
 * 21:15:59: Atvelonis: If there are no more votes then we can continue
 * 21:16:42: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: shit happening on Discord :P
 * 21:16:54: The Great Laggi: o my
 * 21:17:26: Blademaster Jauffre: Discord, here I come
 * 21:17:40: Blademaster Jauffre: You lied
 * 21:18:00: DaBarkspawn: (+)
 * 21:18:06: Atvelonis: Does anyone else have anything they would like to discuss?
 * 21:18:22: The Great Laggi: no
 * 21:18:23: Nekyn Alb: Yes
 * 21:18:38: Nekyn Alb: We should put a really big picture of Vivec on the main page
 * 21:18:45: Atvelonis: good idea
 * 21:18:47: Nekyn Alb: (+)
 * 21:18:53: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:18:56: Atvelonis: make it fan art too
 * 21:19:05: Atvelonis: closer to the people
 * 21:19:06: Atvelonis: they'll love it
 * 21:19:35: Nekyn Alb: rule34, I gotchu fam
 * 21:19:55: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: not this wiki's Discord xD
 * 21:19:58: Nekyn Alb: The Pomegranate Banquet
 * 21:20:10: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: (+)
 * 21:20:13: Atvelonis: Anyway, I do have something I would like to touch on quickly
 * 21:20:34: Atvelonis: I think most/all of you are aware that we are doing a raffle this month
 * 21:20:46: Atvelonis: I just wanted to make it clear that people can still enter mid-month, and their edits will be counted retroactively
 * 21:20:59: Atvelonis: i.e. if they edit on dec 1 but don't enter until dec 2 then their edits on dec 1 will still count
 * 21:21:02: Atvelonis: just to be nice
 * 21:21:43: Atvelonis: And not that I have to worry about this from anyone here, but remember that edits which are reverted or highly modified will not be counted
 * 21:21:51: DaBarkspawn: wfm
 * 21:22:46: Atvelonis: At the end of the month I will tally up the byte sizes of every user and use a similar methodology as last year to choose the winners
 * 21:22:57: Nekyn Alb: So I can modify every edit and make them lose? (kappa)
 * 21:23:01: Atvelonis: https://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:994161
 * 21:23:03: Atvelonis: lol
 * 21:23:08: Blademaster Jauffre: Lmao
 * 21:23:24: Atvelonis: "The total byte size of all edits made during the contest will be added up for each user. Then, every participant is assigned a unique range of numbers reflecting their total byte size: more bytes results in a larger range. Finally, a script is run to randomly select three winning values within the total range."
 * 21:23:51: Atvelonis: The way I did it last year was writing a spreadsheet that used the cumulative value of the edits per user
 * 21:24:07: Atvelonis: So the ranges I'm referring to were just the user's amount of bytes in the cumulative amount
 * 21:24:25: Atvelonis: And I can generate a random number within that range very easily
 * 21:24:44: DaBarkspawn: For images, is that really the byte count of the image?
 * 21:24:47: Atvelonis: no
 * 21:24:50: Atvelonis: arbitrary value
 * 21:25:04: Atvelonis: I figured that the file description was not really a worthy way to decide the quality of an image
 * 21:25:10: DaBarkspawn: kk
 * 21:25:37: DaBarkspawn: I only ask because then images would dwarf text edits, having a rather larger byte count.
 * 21:25:50: Blademaster Jauffre: Now that we're talking about images, there's something I'm curious about.
 * 21:25:56: DaBarkspawn: /me runs
 * 21:26:12: Blademaster Jauffre: Is there a specific reason why we don't have all the images of the Pocket Guides?
 * 21:26:30: Atvelonis: I chose that value because I decided last year that uploading an image took roughly the same amount of effort as writing a sentence of size 250 bytes
 * 21:26:40: Atvelonis: @Jauffre: yes, there are some legal issues with that unfortunately
 * 21:27:00: Atvelonis: I'm not totally clear on the details, but it's come up before
 * 21:27:08: Blademaster Jauffre: Ah, that's a pity.
 * 21:27:26: Atvelonis: Yes it's most unfortunate
 * 21:28:07: Atvelonis: Re contest: this year, I said that the 3 people with the most absolute number of bytes will get a prize of their choosing (from anywhere, as long as it's TES-related)
 * 21:28:50: TinyClayMan: Checked the Beth Store
 * 21:28:54: Nekyn Alb: I want Todd Howard
 * 21:28:59: DaBarkspawn: Is a new gaming computer "TES related" ;)
 * 21:29:09: Atvelonis: I forget exactly how much I budgeted for last year's winners but it was something like $50, $30, $15
 * 21:29:42: Atvelonis: @Dab: yes if you are using it to play TES, but I'm not quite wealthy enough to go around buying entire PCs for people lol
 * 21:30:03: Atvelonis: @Tiny: not sure, but I didn't see them. They might be available on amazon
 * 21:30:07: DaBarkspawn: yeah, j/k
 * 21:30:39: Atvelonis: I think this year I could go a bit higher. Perhaps $100, $50, $30. Though I don't want to get anyone's hopes up
 * 21:30:56: Masidillia: That's pretty nice
 * 21:31:34: Atvelonis: @Dab: a PC part would definitely be possible though
 * 21:32:06: Atvelonis: A custom CPU cooler like whatever that popular cooler master one is tends to be like $20-30
 * 21:32:20: Atvelonis: Motherboard can be more like $50-100
 * 21:32:21: Atvelonis: etc.
 * 21:33:11: Atvelonis: Since I am somewhat lazy I will probably not be done counting everything right by January 1st
 * 21:33:25: Atvelonis: If I can figure out how to write a script in Python to do it automatically, I will definitely do that
 * 21:34:10: Atvelonis: Would have to do a second run manually to check for reverted content but it would speed it up
 * 21:34:16: Atvelonis: @Dab: if you want to do that for me, feel free lmao
 * 21:34:28: Atvelonis: writing the script, that is
 * 21:35:04: Atvelonis: Those are all the clarifications I had... so I think we are done now
 * 21:35:11: Atvelonis: Any other topics before we close up shop?
 * 21:35:37: Nekyn Alb: I'll just upload the Vivec pic, yeah?
 * 21:35:40: DaBarkspawn: It depends... I'd need to see how the data is listed... is it just a spreadsheet?
 * 21:35:50: Dwemer35: Maybe we should wait for a few minutes in case Rozty comes around
 * 21:36:07: DaBarkspawn: Nekyn: be sure to use the one of him chopping bits off Molag Bal
 * 21:36:19: Nekyn Alb: Why yes of course
 * 21:36:25: Nekyn Alb: Are there any other relevant images?
 * 21:36:34: DaBarkspawn: None
 * 21:36:43: Nekyn Alb: Exactly!
 * 21:37:10: Atvelonis: @dab: I have to go to Special:Contributions for every user and check the byte sizes
 * 21:37:25: Atvelonis: You can go into Inspect Element and find what the elements that have all that stuff are called, I'd bet
 * 21:38:32: Atvelonis: it's an unordered list
 * 21:39:08: TinyClayMan: Atv, do negative bytes count?
 * 21:39:22: TinyClayMan: Do they lower the chances?
 * 21:39:32: DaBarkspawn: ugh, this html is nasty
 * 21:39:38: Atvelonis: WikiaSiteWrapper -> then this https://i.gyazo.com/85b6dff428641088c4b6f303a936bf0d.png
 * 21:39:48: Atvelonis: @Tiny: this year I am doing it based off absolute byte size
 * 21:39:52: Atvelonis: Last year I just ignored negative edits
 * 21:40:00: Atvelonis: But this year they will be added as if they are positive
 * 21:40:20: Atvelonis: Not perfect, since you can change a lot about an article and still have it end up be around the same size, but it's hard to do much else
 * 21:40:32: TinyClayMan: Ah
 * 21:41:37: Atvelonis: Well if there are no more topics then I think it's safe to end
 * 21:42:03: Atvelonis: By the power vested in me by Special:UserRights and Jimbo Wales, I hereby declare this moot complete!