Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-27007772-20140611204941/@comment-26356342-20150617181949

''* Put your parts in bold, faster to identify ur points. ''Right off the bat, you ask me to bold, when you can't be bothered to do it yourself, as you seem to jumb back and fourth with bold and colors, however in an attempt to get this through to you one last time, I'll bold my response. '' * Stop right there. Would he go with Hadvar? Even knowing that (Hadvar) could have gone and told General Tullius and said this persons not on the list. (notice just this one thing, would permentally scare someone.)  Stockholm syndrome. Tsk tsk. (but honeslty would u have gone with Hadvar?) ''HE who? there isnt a single Dragonborn that is canon. If you honestly believe ONLY a male Nord is THE Dragonborn, I have thousands of fans who would disagree. Furthermore, YES! Why wouldn't you go with the one guy who stuck his neck out for you by standing up to a superior officer? He also tells you he will get you out of it alive. No part of that is Stockholm syndrome.  ''* Um- Ancano, Estormo, Captain Valmir, Agent Lorcalin ( for ELISIF horn quest), j'datharr, Gissur (IF u didn't kill him. He's a spy so u have to kill him or he follows you in the flagon lol), Shavari, The thalmore in the Sewers oh and the thalmore everywhere else. (Theres a reason why the player got wuuthrad) cough denial. ''"The LDB is given the option to completely eradicate the Dark Brotherhood." I will admit fault on my wording. There ARE a few Thalmor you have to kill such as Ancano. What I was referring to however, was your point on the Thalmor send agents after you for killing Thalmor, THAT only happens when you kill the ones wandering Skyrim, and any marked unessential. If you're just killing Thalmor as you see them.. well yeah they're going to come after you just like with anyone else.  ''* U can't fully destroy them, because of beths bias of not killing ki.ds and u can't kill cicero (he's essentail and still alive) And lastly The night mother is still alive...many other situation where the player could meet her. (plus everyone in the guild seems to 'die 'either way, only a couple or so survive. The only person thats was really needed is the ldb.) ''What you just said there? That's a waste of time...Try either making a point, or countering mine. Your point (originally) was that you believe the Dragonborn joins the Darkbrotherhood and is responsible for the Emperor's Death. MY point, was that the Dragonborn is given the option to destroy the Dark Brotherhood. I even went on to say, that altho, in the future (such as the next game) recorded history will most likely still say the Dark Brotherhood is eventually responsible for the emperor's death, there isn't a way for bethesda to officially state the the Dragonborn is the one who killed the emperor. Maybe read my response next time. '' * The repeated hints that are layed out (Wuuthrad, killing hundreds of elfs), the ck, beths Bias and the game making more sense on the terms of a canon nord. Arcadia calls the player a nord even when not a nord. The fact that he has to kill all these elfs. Lastly Beth said that the war quest isn't finished, but if it was finished the in game data shows that they are planning on recking the corpse of the empire.''  What are you talking about here? what is your point? So wait... your point that the game code bugging out IScanon, when Arcadia refers to your character as a Nord... AND in the same point, try and say because the game code isnt finished, but if it WAS finished, THAT is somehow ALSO canon? WTF are you even talking about? and please take your own advise, lets see some links here that state they had planned to wreck the Empire. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Sigh- Do u remember how the guards state and mention  <span mce_style="font-size: 10pt;" style="font-size:10pt;"><span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">My god... it's like you dont even read my points... congrats, you can quote the guards... my point wasn't "nobody will know it was the dragonborn" my point was; "You are given a choice, and unless theres a Dragonbreak, the next game is going to have to address the decisions made" for example, choosing to either join the Dark Brotherhood, or to destroy them. For anyone playing a morally good character, to suddenly have history write their character was an assassin would cause huge problems within the fanbase. What you seem to be arguing is that You have this idea of how YOU think the Dragonborn should be, based on personal bias...and argueing points as if thats the RIGHT way to play. There is no specific race, or gender, or class, it's up to the player. SO I will again ask you stop acting as if YOUR dragonborn is the RIGHT one, and make some real points. ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Wow the treason, i am so (not) surprised <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">What is this supposed to mean? it's not a point being made, and its not a counter to an argument.... We are not discussing MY Dragonborn and YOUR dragonborn, we are discussing the reasons between choosing sides in the civil war. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* um-bro- once you kill the Emp the empire is in a storm of decal. As i stated before about the chaos going on in cyrodill. They can't even handel themselves and the Thalmore down there. Plus at that point Ulfric hasn't seen the Ldb take down armies of bandits or thalmore before. He may have gotten word but brushed it off. (u keep forgetting the wars breaking out in cyrodill, bandits running about, thalmore and such) bloody place is in ruin. Theres nothing at that moment that can save them. ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">YOU DON'T HAVE TO KILL THE EMPEROR, IT'S AN OPTION! THERE ARE PLAYERS OUT THERE WHO DID CHOOSE TO KILL THE DB INSTEAD OF JOIN THEM AND NEVER WERE PRESENTED WITH THE QUEST TO KILL THE EMPEROR! <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Link me that dial for him. Also the long run doesn't exist if humans are all wiped out. Secondly Even Tiber septim told the Neveraine that the empire was about to die when he dies. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Wulf and http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Wulf ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">I copied the dialog, but if you really want a link, sure... http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ulfric_Stormcloak#Notes Second note.. Ulfric's dialog about not wanting to be responsible for the Emperor's cousin's AND his dialog saying he doesnt want the Emperor dead in Skyrim, as it would cause problems. I may not agree with Ulfric, but he's smart enough to know the emperor's death would cause problems for Skyrim. Now to your point about Wulf, I said it once I'll say it again, Wulf never says it's time for the Empire to be abolished, he says it's time for a change. Change can mean a lot of things, and it's too vague to count as a point that Talos himself is somehow saying the empire needs to go. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* The empire can't controll there own capital and their own curroption. Their army is dead and trying to spread themselves out throughout the lands just like the Dominion. They are both in a weak state. The stormcloaks are just getting started and already can hold off the legion govn for the "rest of the game." ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Evidence please. There is no mention that their army is currently spread thin, there is only mention that they are rebuilding during this time of "peace". There is 1 legion in Skyrim, and as of the start of the Game, they already won. Ulfric was captured, and about to be executed. It is only because of Alduin's attack he survived, and subsequently his rebellion survived. The Stormcloaks are just getting started but they're only 1 half (if that) of skyrim, while the Legion forces have ALL of Cyrodiil, the 1 legion that's been holding off the rebellion, and the soldiers in High Rock. Not counting the (very few) elite troops that were left in Hammerfell. Theres no way the stormcloaks could win a civil war and still have the numbers to challenge anyone, least of all the Dominion, who still has forces in the Isles, Valenwood, and Elswyr. And before you say they will join with either Hammerfell or Morrowind, I suggest doing research first, because Hammerfell had lands taken from them by the Nords, theres no way they're going to join a fight with them, unless absolutely necessary. Here is a link where you can read about in the 3rd Era when Skyrim invaded; http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Hammerfell ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">~What exactly is the point you're making about the other races? The Dark elves have an argonian problem, and dealing with the red mountain issue, it's keeping them from the great war, I dont see how this is relevant to anything I said... You and Phantasys both mention a great debt to be paid, where is it this debt is being mentioned that High Rock has to pay? <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Do u know the dark elves are targeted by the thalmore and just just as much as the nords/imperials that are being wiped out. Back on the home land obviouly there are rebillion in morrowind (and this goes for the rest of Tamrial) against the empire and the thalmore. By the way that Dept is the Dept of being 100% invovled with the Thalmore and the empire, there just as tramped  of country as Cyrodill and also added on to that they are divided because all ther castles and "rulers"  read the lore on high rock's people. ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Do YOU know, the dark elves have little to do with what's going on? The argonians broke off from the empire to war with Morrowind... who was devastated by the Oblivion Crisis, and the eruption of the Red Mountain. Neither the Argonian's or the Dunmer are going to be getting involved with the Second Great War. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* "NEVER anything about a debt or bribes." <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* link your sources. By the way thats impossible. but still link your sources. ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">My point WAS that there was no information... YOUR point was saying there were huge debts High Rock had to pay, and I asked for evidence. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Bosmer getting killed? what? they're working with the Dominion, and So are the Khajit! what is the point of this statement?! -  <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* so no rebellions exist then huh? ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">I didn't say there wree no rebellions, I asked what you're talking about and how it relates to your overall point (which has yet to be made) MY point was that the Thalmor already had sympathizers in Valenwood, and drove out the Legion that was there, it's done and over with, Valenwood is an ally to the dominion now. It's funny that you'll stick up for Valenwood tho, when they so willingly allied with the Thalmor, and yet the Empire, known to be in a cold war with the dominion somehow doesnt get the same respect. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* How many years has it been- 20 plus and still the land is in ruin and ravaged. ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Yes, it has been a while, That's what War does to a land... soldiers need to be replaced, supplies secured, there's a lot that needs to be done and after the Great War and a saced capitol, they're going to need time to recover, it doesnt happen over night. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Sigh- If they kept going they would have been helped by the "Divines" or be destroyed because of there curroption. The test to see if they would break and they did. So there punishment was a slow painful death. Don't belive me read Runil alduin was flying about in cyrodill he describes how alduin and the last dbh seems/if not the same while the great war was going on. ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">See here? this is where you totally lost me... you truly think.. the Empire should have just said "Who cares if the soldiers can't fight, I have faith in the gods!" and just keep going? Faith doesnt win wars, soldiers do, and all the Imperial soldiers were too tired to fight, they lost a lot of people, their city was saced... theres so many reasons why continueing the fight would have been a bad idea and you ignore them all and just say "faith in the gods, or die". You have successfully lost whatever respect I had for this discussion, as you seemed to have succumbed to blind delusions. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* The dragonborn if we are doing the (jesus parl) was killed by the empire and also he was a rebel. He went to sovngard (deaths bed and came back) and guess what if its that empire your picking up then u just pointed out how curropted they are. (Also he shouldn't have the option because the bounty from Elenwen and General Tullius would be over his head, they did repeativly see him. The dbh was supposed to go to the block with the rest of the stormcloaks) ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">There's so much wrong here it might honestly be giving me physical pain. The Dragonborn was never killed by the empire...he never DIED and went to Sovngard, (it's even mentioned a living person shouldnt BE there) and I never mentioned corruption. You also keep mentioning this bounty that SHOULD have been placed.. well guess what? There wasnt one, and just because YOU FEEL there should have been one, doesnt mean the lore needs to reflect that. On top of that, your name was never ON that list, AND ON TOP OF THAT! said list would have been lost of destroyed when the Dragon attacked. come up with some real points and keep you "should have"s to yourself. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Don't overlook it. Alduin was eating the soliders that died in the war. It's why the db had to go to sovngard. By the way the player didn't need to do that reduntant talk he did/could have end the war before and that peace talk was useless so. '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">(lol alduin ate torygg) '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">This still doesn't have anything to do with the CIVIL WAR, or the decision on which side to take. Also, Torygg was never eaten, you can speak with him while you're there... ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* ~I Like that this part starts with a condescending "did you really write that" followed by a vast misunderstanding of how a military hierarchy works. Tullius is 1 of the many generals... he is not THE Empire. Ulfric is referring to "the head" of the Empire occupant forces in Skyrim. '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Yeah i might of sounded like that but for some odd reason thats the REAL govn of the millitary (was almost like that too) '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Research it. ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">I honestly don't even know what you're saying here... Your point was that somehow killing Tullius that means the Empire is DONE, while I was reminding you Tullius is 1 general among several... him dying only removes the occupation forces, it doesn't represent the entire Imperial Army... maybe YOU should research. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Read that over- oh and here ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Damn Tullius. He's pocketed men in the Rift. It's dangerous having Imperials skulking around on the southern border of Eastmarch." <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">"Hjaalmarch isn't much, but it's a good start. I'll make a name for myself here, then maybe work my way up to someplace like Riften."  '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">She will be replaced for this yarl in Morthal. But the game isn't fin so stuff like this doesn't happen. '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Sorli_the_Builder '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ulfric_Stormcloak'<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">oh yeah Ulfric knows. And please read over anyone reading that can identify thats denial. She works with Elenwen thats all that need to be said. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Read that over- <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Again...no idea what you're talking about or the point you're trying to make. Let's do this tho, and take your first quote; "Damn Tullius. He's pocketed men in the Rift. It's dangerous having Imperials skulking around on the southern border of Eastmarch." ''This is said by the extremely Bias Ulfric, so right out of the gate you can't take it at face value. Of course he doesnt want Imperials on his southern border, this doesnt prove the Empire is Corrupt. Should I just take some of Tullius's Quotes on Ulfirc and use them against you? No! Do you know why I don't? Because I KNOW Tullius has a bias, and it's outright stupid to try and use anything he says to try and convince someone to join the legion who is already a stormcloak supporter. Your second Quote; "''"Hjaalmarch isn't much, but it's a good start. I'll make a name for myself here, then maybe work my way up to someplace like Riften." ''Said by Sorli, appointed by the Stormcloaks, on that same page you provided, here are some things that undermine your point.  <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">*As Jarl of Hjaalmarch, Sorli evidently isn't any more popular than Idgrod Ravencrone. The citizenry, while divided on the new regime, are at best indifferent, or at worst, hostile to their new jarl. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">*Despite being a jarl appointed by the Stormcloaks, Sorli worships the Eight Divines, rather than the Nine Divines. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">She's not exactly a prime example to be using on just "how bad" the Empire is. I'll go ahead and leave this topic with a quote of my own from your same page made by Jorgen; "The world's going mad, and our Jarl doesn't care. She's only in it for herself. If she's the best Ulfric has to offer, maybe we might've been better off with the Imperials." ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* sigh- I know what it is, and thanks for double explaining that people were beening taking...you even gave an example. Oh and u also stated that it was before  the tower  was even captured. You see the thalmore already won that captial. ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">This is once again confusing at best... My point was you seem to misunderstand the timeline of events.. I stated the timeline of events to better assist YOU so that next time you don't sound so much like you have NO IDEA what's going on. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">*<Your Response> Below this was ranting ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* It's friggin illegal to kill anyone!! Are you serious?! Start up Skyrim for me right now, fast travel to say... Riverwood... Find the first person, and kill them... Then tell me what happens. ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">This is not ranting, this is what's called a counter argument. Your original point was that killing Thalmor was illegal, as if this was some sort of new law. Killing anyone is illegal... <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* (stop cracking under pressure) If the player kills a thalmore around a stormcloak it isn't illegal. The player would be lucky to even get a proper hit in. But if u even touch a thalmore agent wrong around the imperials BOUNTY. They are puppets. ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">What pressure is that exactly? I've asked you countless times now for evidence you have yet to bring. Killing anyone in front of anyone will get you a bounty. Get a proper hit in? really? Did you play Skyrim or did you just watch someone else play for 15 minutes? <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* "hate them" Who hates them? Plus my point was they were (Sheo was clearly a thieve/criminal because his map showed all places unlike the db. His logic for being arrest was clear he actually commit a crime/crimes) ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Ok first, what I said " that somehow gives you an excuse to hate them" THEM in this context (had you actually read the post) was the Empire, and clearly YOU hate the Empire. The rest of what you said there about sheo and maps, is damn near unintelligible, I have no idea what you're talking about. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* "It's the dumbest, and simplist argument made... and We've always been prisoners...it's not new..its just how elderscrolls games start." <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Do you speak for Db who was locked up for no reason by the empire? Or are u into that. Also wasn't the point of the start of the game to show the current situation and state of the empire? <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">I don't even know where to start here... "Do you speak for Db who was locked up for no reason by the empire?''" First, here you've been trying to speak for the Dragonborn by saying they are a nord, a male, join the stormcloaks, and killed the emperor. In no way, did I said I speak for him. However I will go back to the point I made where I said the DB was crossing the border, and we are not told WHY, given that the DB has no family in skyrim and seemingly no knowledge of customs, one could say they are not from Skyrim, and if they weren't from Skyrim why did they NEED to cross the border? My point was it's ambiguous. WE DONT KNOW IF THEY REALLY ARE INNOCENT! some people have written backstories for their DB where they were cold blooded murders from Cyrodiil. The game lets YOU decide if they were innocent for YOUR OWN backstory. The "Or are u into that." was not only moronic, it's uncalled for and unwarranted. The point of the start of the game wasnt to show the state of the Empire, it was to introduce you to the fact there is a civil war going on in Skyrim. ALL previous heroes in the Elderscrolls games have started as prisoners, but this is the first time anyone has made a fuss over it because they're too stupid to come up with a better argument against the Empire, other than "they were going to behead me!" The Hero of Kvatch, would have died had the mythic dawn not tried to murder the Emperor. Yet no one was saying "death to imperials for locking me up" but when Skyrim arrives every idiot who cant see past the first 10 seconds of the game are the first to yell "death to the empire they tried to kill me!" It's the dumbest argument you can make and I would have assumed you were better then that. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">*<My point>~No I don't know how many people die per day "bro" could you be a friend and provide me with the solid evidence and statistics that show deaths per day in Skyrim? Also nice job skipping my point... <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Reduntant but if u insist. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Did you actually type that? This number comes from the fact that the empire and the Dominions soliders "collateral damage" plus the over killing of Talos worshippers, plus the thalmore/Imperial killing innocent people for fun. (remember those war stories of ra.pe and killing farmers for not having their way with the farmers childern or wife. THOSE ADD UP.  <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">1000's dead because of this.  <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">You claim to provide evidence and yet all I see is your assumptions. Your claim was "how many people die per day in skyrim" and your answer is a mixture of rumors and (again) a vast misunderstanding of the timeline of events. congrats. Also Where the evidence of the rape? are you just saying "in general" rape is just what happens during war? EVIDENCE! SOURCE! LORE! lets see it! <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Um thats war, there are ambush for the leaders whent hey leave there holds. Did u actually type that again. Do get encounters in your game where there are battels everyday. look http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Angeline's_Aromatics <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Angelins daughter or when ralof and the player had to take out a carriage ambush style. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Beyond this u were pointlessly ranting (nice try though) (anyone reading ur  post can see that) ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Is this really your response? First, my point was asking for evidence (which you failed at again unsurprisingly) of ambushes in which innocent lives are lost. and your repsonse is just "that's war man!" bravo. Did YOU get encounters? because where there was one, innocent people were never involved, it was clearly imperial soldiers fighting stormcloaks in an open field. Again, you can call my counter arugments "pointless ranting" as a means of not responding, but everyone can see you're avoid my questions and giving non-answers. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Do u mean Pelagia, that imperial. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">"I had my years of war and fighting. Senseless, all of it. All I want now is a rake and a patch of good soil." '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Punishment from the "Divines' it happens everyday. notice how he said Senseless and he's human. He set himself up. You have to keep fighting evil if ur human. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Can I seriously get a map to find your point?  <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* "You misunderstood my point... -_-; I was saying."how about you read that over again and then read my post about it again. to much repeating going on. By the way my point also about the Yarls not being killed is that the game isn't finished. That Shouldn't happen in war. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">NO how about YOU reread it, because that's why I said YOU misunderstood my point. Furthermore, This is starting to bug me, it's "Jarl" not "Yarl" and "Thalmor" not "Thalmore" on top of the slue of other spelling errors I'm starting to see why you may not have been getting the correct information together. '''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* To anyone reading this- Did Hadvar have to option to tell general Tullius about a person not on the list. Did he follow CURROPT ORDERS from a next Soldier and follow through with it. Now whats the differenece between this person and Maven who would send people to kill the db for simple matter of talking incorrectly. '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">You clearly know nothing about the military... '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">*Bug- he is supposed to be arrest if the imperials get the capital. It's just like Elenwen even if the db gets solitude. '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Bug or not, that's what's presented. '''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">*o.o what are you even talking about? evidence please... actual evidence not this nonsense you keep making up. '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Maybe its because u...never mind here; '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">hen asked if he's worried for his family because of the war and dragons, he'll explain: "Of course. Every night I pray that we don't get a visit from a dragon, or that two armies don't show up to fight over the bridge. You ask if I'm worried? I'm terrified, if you want to truth of it. But I have to stay strong for my wife and children." When you ask about mean people passing through, he'll rant: "Both the Imperials and Stormcloaks have sent riders this way, scouting the bridge and the lands nearby. They stayed at the inn, but didn't pay. They said soldiers don't need to pay because they're risking their lives to protect us. And that's not all. They took a heap of our lumber, and one tried to have his way with my daughter. They think they can do whatever they want." <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Azzada_Lylvieve - IMPERIALS BY THE WAY''. '''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">I Will congradulate you as this is a rare time you provide evidence HOWEVER he never says if it's Imperials or Stormcloaks, and in fact makes a point to mention they are both at fault here, so it doesn't prove anything, YOU just interpreted it as being against the imperials. '''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">*Do YOU even know what you're trying to say anymore? <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">*Do u? I mean i am pointing out points ur just ranting notice that? properly not. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Morrowind Dark Elfs are HATED by the thalmore they are on the run just like the nords plus they are avoiding home because of the Argoinions and the red mountain ash. But back home they would obviouly have people that hate the thalmore because the thalmore hate them. '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Again, claim I'm ranting all you want, it just shows you have no idea what to say other than "you're ranting!" I'm discussing your points with counter arguments, thats how a dialog works. I fear someone might read your post and mistake you for someone who actually knows what they're talking about. '''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* "Cicero is talking about the initial attack involved in the first great war! Again do more research... you need to get the timeline of events situated in your head better because you're mixing too much of it together." '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Cicero '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">He will then elaborate on why he took the long trip from Cyrodiil to Skyrim. "The Night Mother's crypt in Bravil was... desecrated. The Imperial Province is ravaged by strife. Nowhere there is safe, at present. So Cicero brought our Lady to her new home. get to reading that again <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Did you read the article you linked? the "Stirfe" he's talking about is the AFTERMATH of the great war. and the reason he took the long trip was because the Thalmor were the ones who desecrated the night mother's crypt, DURING the great war! get your timeline and your facts together.  <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* "~So then... what you're really saying is." '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* ( At this point after the war -the only thing that can be done is think on a battle plan, u should know that...guess not) ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Think on a battle plan is what the Empire is doing... Thats where you hear all the talk about the cold war, and gearing up to face the Thalmor... YOUR point was that the Empire is in a Civil War with the Thalmor, which is inaccurate. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">*DIE in that war... '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">*(Already dead) <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Yeah, totally'' dead... Except even Ulfric knows he can't win a fight in a full scale invasion with the Empire... which would lead anyone to believe they are not dead. but you keep thinking that. '''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* "for an alliance based on nothing but your own whim" (he can) '''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">He who? The Dragonborn? Tell me how that works, HOW doe she win an alliance, and bare in mind it's already been discussed why that wouldn't be possible so i suggest you read up on that. '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* "to "purge" the non existant occupation of Thalmor in Hammerfell"  '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Spys and sell outs u do know they exist right. there are always quest for such things in war. '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Kematu ''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">The whole point of this quest was the idea either side could have been lying... nice try tho. '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">also; http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Second_Treaty_of_Stros_M%27Kai <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">" The conditions of the treaty compelled the Dominion to withdraw all of its military forces from Hammerfell." <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);"> <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* "Elsweyr and Valenwood are WILLING allies to the Thalmor This is what makes up the Dominion." <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Logic states; Malborn and OBVIOULY there are cat folk that hate the thalmore. (They would have little rebellions going on or even large ones) <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Remember when Delphine state that Malborn had PLENTY of Reasons to hate the Thalmore. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">Stop Ranting and get some point before posting. '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">I'll start with this since you just ignore everything. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aldmeri_Dominion<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">"''' a Thalmor-backed coup overthrew Valenwood's government, routing Imperial forces and their Bosmer supporters. Alinor and Valenwood then proclaimed a union, and the Aldmeri Dominion was reborn." <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">"Under Thalmor influence, Elsweyr split into the kingdoms ofAnequina and Pelletine in 4E 115, and subsequently become client states of the Dominion." '''<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">It's right there plain as day, the dominion has an alliance with Valenwood and Elsweyr. It's too late to change that. The alliance is what MAKES the Dominion what it is. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">and, stop ranting? it's funny you think ranting is when someone is proving you wrong.... sheesh... I made my points BEFORE you were involved with the conversation, maybe go read those and try and prove me wrong. You started out with a bias opinion of the empire, that lead to you making claims such as "the dragonborn kills the emperor" and passing it as fact. ALL I've been doing is asking for the proof of your claims. So far the only real proof you've brought is the one farmer mentioning rape, but not mentioning who attempted it. SO I applaud you for at least providing that info however... <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* You have yet to explain how an independent Skyrim defends it's borders should they come under invasion. If the Empire is as weak as you say, and Ulfric already said he couldn't handle an all out invasion, HOW does he fight off the Dominion? '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Where is a  source  saying the Dragonborn is a Jesus allegory '<span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Where is the  source  saying people die in the thousands daily? <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Where is the  source  saying there are repeated raids happening daily? <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Where is it stated by Bethesda, the Dragonborn has to choose Ralof? <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">* Where is the  source  on the  Empire  specifically "Overkilling" the Talos worshipers? <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">These are just some of the wild claims you've made that you have yet to provide evidence for other than your own opnion. As I originally stated, you're not making pro-stormcloak arguments you just making anti-empire ones. it's not the same. <span mce_style="color: #ffffff;" style="color:rgb(255,255,255);">The ironic part of it all, is that even tho you support the stormcloaks you still recognize that the Empire will still need to be involved in the fighting, while at the same time saying they'll just die. It doesn't make sense. If the Empire is as weak as you say it is, why is it The Thalmor don't want the Empire to win the civil war? "'''<span mce_style="font-size: 10pt;" style="font-size:10pt;">Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim." '''If the Thalmor are working with the Empire, why would an imperial victory in skyrim be a hindrance to them? Furthermore, "<span mce_style="font-size: 10pt;" style="font-size:10pt;">A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even  indirect aid to the Stormcloaks<span mce_style="font-size: 10pt;" style="font-size:10pt;"> must be carefully managed. <span mce_style="font-size: 10pt;" style="font-size:10pt;">" The Thalmor are USING the Stormcloaks! We all may not like the current state of the Empire, and it may not be the Septim dynasty anymore, but a unified Empire, with Skyrim, and High Rock all working together is the best chance we have for stopping the eradication of Men. The Stormcloaks are a prideful, nord-only group of ex  <span mce_style="font-size: 13.3333330154419px;" style="font-size:13.3333330154419px;">legionaries, farmers, and whoever else is willing to yell "for the nords". It's a small group being fended off by a single legion. At least with the Empire in charge, there are Jarls who promote tolerance, trade can flourish, work can be done to build up forces to end the dominion. <span mce_style="font-size: 10pt;" style="font-size:10pt;">  '''