User blog comment:Pelinal Whitestrake/About Aka, Lorkhan and broken Windows/@comment-11345660-20140209010228/@comment-13446185-20140216184354

Before you complain about me dragging on this argument, the reason why I'm still arguing with you is because you seem to have trouble understanding my points.

'and you say that because they are, this dissproves that theory. Your argument for that honestly makes no sense. You are basically just saying you're right, and I'm wrong.'

That is not what I'm saying, I'm saying that since their is evidence of other gods that follow this type of relation than their is evidence that Tsun and Zenithar also follow this varried relation.

'How is asking exactly why they seperated from themselves not an important question? It's the most important question there is, and it is relevant to our argument because it's the CAUSE of this whole thing you're going on about! How can that not be important.'

I've already explained this; because of the fact that we already know that they have split themselves up (What this argument is about), we don't really need to know why they did so. Sure it would be interesting to know but it isn't that important to the argument.

You don't "Know" it happened, you "believe" it happened.

No, the monomyth makes a pretty good point that yes, it did happen.

I know I want us to drop it, but going back to Tsun and Zenithar, what do you see in a reflection of a mirror when you look into it?

You're forgetting the point of this argument. Tsun wasn't born from self-reflection he was born from mortal belief. Self-reflection is just proof that the Aedra have the ability to split up and by extension the mortals (who as a whole are basically the Aedra) can split up the gods through their belief.

But also to just inform you a little bit, self-reflection doesn't make a perfect clone, it makes a sub-gradient; such as Anu making Anuiel, and Anuiel making Auriel.

in that Sithis passage you have, how do you get physically breaking into shards with just the phrase "seperate from each other."

That wasn't my point at all with that passage (if you didn't notice I bolded the words jealously and vanity), my point was that the "Aedra" were considered rather vain supporting my theory that the Aedra liked to self-reflect with their aspects merely because they were self-centered.

'And I noticed something with that passage in the monomyth. "And the men dragged his body away." I thought that the remnants of Lorkhan's body was Nirn itself. How do men drag away an entire planet?'

It's more of just a myth/legend thing, my point of bringing that up was to prove that Lorkhan and Shor (as the Nordic Lorkhan is Shor) were considered the same thing (even though they are partially seperate) and that this fight happened at the beginning of time.

Basically what I'm saying here is that Shor may or may not have actually even existed at this time and may have just been a mistaken memory of the Dawn Era that Lorkhan (who the Nords now morphed into Shor) fought Akatosh (who the Nords used to consider Alduin).

Before you think this is heavy assumption I'll have you know that mistaken memories of the Dawn Era are in fact very true; the biggest example of which being the entire continent of Aldmeris in which was actually just a broken Altmeri memory of the ancient united continent of Tamriel.

'I thought Time began when Akatosh was born. Who is to say "normal time" began with the ending of the convention.'

Yes time began when Akatosh was born, but this was non-linear time (a giant Dragonbreak). Normal recordable and less incomprehensible time began after the convention and the "death" of Lorkhan.

"Lorkhan was condemned by the Gods to exile in the mortal realms, and his heart was torn out and cast from the Tower. Where it landed, a Volcano formed. With Magic (in the Mythic Sense) gone, the Cosmos stabilized. Elven history, finally linear, began (ME2500)."

-Before the Ages of Man

'You're missing the point when I say we need more information on Sheor. Your description is not very accurate anyway. Different cultures in the Elder Scrolls universe all have their own version of Lorkhan and they either villify him or glorify him.'

Exactly, a villified version of Lorkhan will definitely be different than a glorified version. Sheor is a purposefully evil god most likely made by the Direnni to scare Bretons away from worshiping their own (or another's) positive version of Lorkhan.

'Just because one culture views him as a god of strife does not make prove you right. Same god, different names, and differing views about him.'

And just because One culture views you as a god of commerce doesn't mean that another can't view him as a god of trials.

'I realize the Monomyth is probably one of the more credible sources in the Elder Scrolls world, but it is still no different than any other book that provides its views on the pantheons on Nirn. It can't be proven, and therefore should be used for evidence, not actual proof. I take it lightly.'

But then what do you consider proof?

'Mortals are the proof. Sure. Have you ever heard of the word "descendant?" Let's run down the list of quotes here. '

Exactly, they are descended fom the gods by aspects creating sub-gradient after sub-gradient, eventually they became weak enough for Lorkhan's limitations to end up killing them and when parts of a god start to die; so too did the god.

I can see where you would get the idea the Aedra created aspects of themselves, but the idea could be metaphorical just as literal.

How? How can that be seen as metaphorical at all? It almost directly states that they broke themselves into aspects, there is nothing metaphorical about it.

A reflection of yourself can be seen as an offspring exhibiting the behavior it inherited from the parent.

The Aedra were following the example of Anu-Anuiel-Auriel, their was no reproduction involved. The Aedra can only create by taking from themselves.

eventually killing the ones who were immortal and Anuic from the start,

Not necessarily, the Eight still seem to be alive.

'I just can't buy the fact that mortals could hold power over their ancestors just by believing in different stuff. How would you explain this?'

Mortals aren't ancestors in a way that we would be ancestors to our parents. Their souls are tiny pieces of the gods that made them. A single mortal is insignificant to a god, but when you take a large group of mortals (such as entire races), the tiny pieces in a sense come togethor and split new gods from the gods they are pieces of.

It may also have connection to the fact that the realm of mortals is more Padomaic than Anuic.

What would you say Argonians are from though?

Very little is known about Argonian creation but they supposedly were birthed from the Hist somehow.