User blog comment:Spritydove/Deeper Thought into the Civil War/@comment-5135631-20120707164515/@comment-5135631-20120714174224

@Cool Fool I fully respect your opinions and you in general, and would agree to the stuff you said if I didn't think that going with the Stormcloaks is the best option in the long run and if I didn't think Ulfric was such a hero. That is something I have explained a few posts down, if you look you might find it.

Obviously a few of Ulfric's supporters will be openly racist, but so far I've only noticed two in Windhelm who are genuinally racist and one in Falkreath (originally an Imperial hold at the start of the game) who is xenephobic and another in Riften who is xenephobic. However, apart from those people, the most racist thing I've heard uttered by a Stormcloak soldier (not a guard, because Nordic guards of Neutral, Stormcloak or Imperial allegiance will comment on the player's race, sometimes perhaps in a derogatory manner.) is "I don't want some snobby/snotty Elf telling me what gods I can and can't worship." I don't need to tell you that is not racism, and is in fact an accurate and justified comment/reason for joining the Rebellion in my view. Correct me if I haven't named other xenephobes/racists.

The two racists should be punished and made to apologise, and the two Xenephobes should read a book and be less ignorant alongside apolgising.

I'm not blind to Ulfric's flaws, but while he does turn a blind eye to the Dunmer, I think it is a form of poetic, unregulated justice for all the awful things Dunmer have put other races through. Since most Dunmer are inherintly xenephobic and haughty, it is arguably better than doing nothing at all in punishment. Also, their cheap housing and narrow streets have most likely always been like that, since we know for a fact that the Grey Quarter has always existed, only it used to be called the Snow Quarter. One of the reasons the Dunmer live in more squalor than the otther races of the town is because they got their last. Also, the Argonians being kept outside the town seems bad, but could be put down to an immigration cap by Ulfric and also due to the current state in Morrowind (the Dunmer and Argonians are at war/were at war and there has always been hatred between the two races, so letting both in could cause trouble.)

While Ulfric's own city has flaws in some ways, we mustn't forget that in Riften and other Stormcloak controlled settlements at the start of the game that Dunmer and Argonians and other races seem to have adapted to Skyrim life and get on with the rest of the populace. Sorli the Builder, the Stormcloak answer to the Jarl of Morthal, even has an Argonian housecarl, so this proves that not all, in fact, not even the majority of Stormcloaks are racist or xenephobic, but they simply are less likely to receive foreigners with open arms.

As for the Thalmor mention, I can't fully discern what you are trying to say, but about the future of Skyrim in military terms under Stormcloak leadership, go a few posts down, to the post and subsequent debate "Just look at this everyone, this is why you should all join the Stormcloaks" with a link just after it. Go down a fair few comments on that post, and you will come to the part about me explaining Skyrim's multiple defences in the event of Aldmeri Invasion. It is kind of split over two long comments by myself, but it details what I am confident would happen in this event and why said things would happen. If what you were trying to say differs from this interpretation, please tell me.

More on Ulfric and race relations, how many Dunmer and Argonians actively complain about his rule? Most of the Grey Quarter, and a couple of Argonians at the docks out of the four there, but we know the Dunmer are guests in Windhelm and are not doing anything to help with the war effort. If they want to be citizens of Windhelm, they should pull their weight like everybody else and quit complaining, maybe then they would be afforded more respect. The Dunmer can't asked to be treated fairly and then ask for autonomy from the city's struggle. That's a paradox. That's an impasse. As for the Argonians, well, that's unfortunate, but as I said a few paragraphs up in this comment, there's a reason this happens. Also, in the climate after the great war and the influx of certain Mer who would happily see all Nords burn, do you not think the Stormcloaks have a reason to be fairly mistrusting of foreigners, especially Elves?

However, you are right in pointing out that Ulfric could order his Steward, Jorleif, to inform him more about current events in the city regarding refugess and immigrants and perhaps introduce effective measures to combat problems that couldn't be seen as the result of things Dunmer and Argonians have already done themselves.

Generally you and I seem to have some similar beliefs on the war and Ulfric, at least as I can tell from your recent comment; we both agree that Ulfric probably has the best claim to the throne, though the means were rather grey, and we both agree that problems in Windhelm often involve foreigners, rightly or wrongly. Where our opinions differ is while I believe Ulfric would make the best High King and the means justify the end, because this is something that has been started and he can't turn back now (or at least that's part of it), you think that the conditions for foreign races in Windhelm, namely Argonians and Dunmer, is too gross and unfortunate to be ignored, to the point that it would make you turn to the Empire. Whereas before the Empire ruled over all types of races, it is now genuinely humans (Mede Empire) against Elves (Aldmeri Dominion, the Khajiit aren't really as involved in the actual fighting). Therefore, I believe it is correct to say that the Stormcloaks are right in caring more about their own kind than foreigners. On how bad their treatment is, however, is a matter for debate and in my case I believe things will get better as things go on in the event of a Stormcloak victory, as you have recognised.

Also, a side note about your comment on Hammerfell: the Empire wasn't racist in removing Hammerfell from their rule, and it was necessary, but as the Empire did this to Hammerfell they should not be at all suprised when Nords begin to view the Empire as traitors to their own interests as well. What I mean is that the Empire cannot view Skyrim as their province any more, or the Stormcloaks as traitors, because they (the Stormcloaks) have rebelled against the White-Gold Concordat and should they take the entire nation in canon, that would mean that they have fully invalidated their involvement in the treaty and thus should be fully renounced as an Imperial province, especially because in my eyes once the Empire gave way to the Thalmor, they rightly saved themselves, but in doing so they gave up and claim they had to Skyrim as almost every Nord worships Talos. In short, Hammerfell rebelled against Concordat = no longer Imperial province. The same should be true in Skyrim because at least half of the Nords are doing the exact same thing, only they are objecting to a different term of the treaty, and do not say that "because not all Nords are rebelling, the Empire still has a claim to Skyrim" or anything along those lines because there would have been people in Hammerfell who objected to restarting the war with the Thalmor at the time.