Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-10197675-20130806142227/@comment-69.246.226.115-20140418133430

1. Please go research adamantium some more before commenting about how it is somehow not equatable to Mithril. Yes the word Adamantium is a contruct of english words. But that's because Marval characters speak english. Mithril is elvish because the characters that created it speak Elvish. Either way both break immersion to the same extent.

2. Your comment "have you ever even played TES" is inflammatory and pointless. The fact remains that Dwemer machina have been in many games, please directly point to which game you're trying to use as a reference that somehow Dwemer constructs don't belong in lore. I have personally completed every game besides Battlespire, Redguard, the mobile games, and TES:O which I'm currently playing.

3. Do tell me more about how Dragonshouts have existed in lore for EVERY SINGLE GAME. Please show me screenshots, direct in-game references, and even out of game lore compilations predating Daggerfall. Please follow this with an essay about how much more validity the prior nonsense has over claims that Dwemer machina have existed forever.

4. You've clearly either missed the point of my arguments are you are merely trying to "start a riot" you argue semantics. You make inflammatory remarks. Dragons have always existed and it bothers mod makers? Dragons did indeed exist. But they were dead. Wyrms are mentioned outright for scaring off Dwarves in Arena. How the modders feel is entirely irrelevant to lore. If something is dead and gone. Popping it back into existence with the excuse TIME TRAVELING! is just as non-sensical as anything else in this series. None of it adds up linearly and that is because guess what?

5. They are video-games. Doom does have a storyline. Street Fighter has a storyline. Both have lore. Fact is those games tend to stick to their own lore more faithfully. Here's another good example for you people apparently incapable of rational thought. The Legend of Zelda series has a very detailed system of lore. Similarly it contains a "Dragon break". The end of one of the games results in three different time lines. Why did this happen? Because it is a video game. The goal of a game developer is to make a compelling video game. Mechanics and plot cruxes are chosen for being interesting and compelling not for fitting into some arbitrary lore book that only a bunch of core fans are worried about. You can try ramble on as much as you'd like trying to defend this game's storyline as if it is somehow equatable to a book series but it is NOT. Even LotR has inconsistencies between the Hobbit and the trilogy. These are usually forgotten or entirely ignored because Tolkein went through great efforts later to tidy up loose ends even writing an entirely fake history book. But here is the primary point on which they differ. The only way a book can bring in revenue is through a compelling story. When we're talking novels. You can bring up maps in the front of books, chapter header illustrations but literally none of that matters because the MAIN AUDIENCE for a book is concerned with words. Words that form together to create stories. Stories which only maintain believability as stated earlier if the suspension of disbelief is maintained. TES is a video game. The PRIMARY AUDIENCE for VIDEO GAMES are worried about GAMEPLAY. It doesn't matter that this game has an interesting story. It doesn't matter that we care about the lore or like the lore. The lore and story is secondary to gameplay. How many games have been developed by the people responding to my posts? And I don't mean indie games. I don't mean how many of you have written lore. I mean how many of you have worked on the production team of a AAA title. The boardroom discussions are about gameplay mechanics. Compelling concepts. Graphics. The question "BUT DOES IT FIT INTO LORE?!" Is never brought up. Not once. It's the team's job to make it fit one way or another. If they don't make it fit well enough that the game doesn't sell well as a result of such changes then people lose jobs rofl.

It's very sweet the way you folks try to romanticize game development but it's not 1994 anymore, and this game isn't a novel. A novel may be a product just the same as a game. And Arena may be leaps and bounds away from the original Doom even. But the concepts stay the same. Novels push sales through story. Games push sales through gameplay. People didn't enjoy Arena BECAUSE of the lore. They enjoyed Arena because of the ability to EXPLORE the lore. The details are not important, only your ability to explore them is important. And in a series where the second game ever produced has an ending where "everything that could have happened, did happen" please don't expect lore to take the front seat in development because it doesn't. Sure the next game being developed will probably get developed off the crux of the Thalmor invasion, but that doesn't mean people are going to sit around in a the boardroom asking "But that doesn't make sense! There was a book in Daggerfall that said X!" or "Arena never mentioned any of Y. You can't possibly put that in game!"