The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot/Log January 2020

Atvelonis pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.Yesterday at 21:10 |subtype     = 22:23] GreyFox06: Rather than a wall of text. 22:45] GreyFox06: How? local rarityParameters = { ["common"] = " Common ", ["rare"] = " Rare ", ["epic"] = " Epic ", ["legendary"] = " Legendary ", ["unique legendary"] = " Unique legendary ", } 23:19] Rupuzioks: I guess not officially 23:25] Rozty Ur: yay lore who would this gentleman be 23:31] Atvelonis: That is me haha @Rozty Ur Most common name of the deity Overall description Cyrodillic Interpretation Nordic Interpretation etc https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/TES:Moot
 * [21:02] Atvelonis: @Verified members The January 2020 moot is scheduled for right now, 8:00 PM UTC. We have one topic prepared in advance by @Rupuzioks, but any verified members are allowed to participate in the moot if they are interested.
 * [21:03] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: i have prepared a topic too
 * [21:03] DaBarkspawn (they): \o/ Discord moot
 * [21:03] DaBarkspawn (they): stops trying to remember /d for "support"
 * [21:03] AramUrthius: Discord Moot will make things much easier
 * [21:04] Stygies VIII: Hello everyone. Just a reminder that we will still keep logs at the wiki. I will copy the text and make logs
 * [21:04] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: i have no idea how to vote support though
 * [21:04] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: or oppose
 * [21:04] AramUrthius: (+)
 * [21:04] DaBarkspawn (they): Huh.
 * [21:04] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: (+)
 * [21:04] DaBarkspawn (they): I can't react to things in this channel
 * [21:04] RhodiumOdi: (-)
 * [21:04] DaBarkspawn (they): :support:
 * [21:04] AramUrthius: :+:
 * [21:04] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: +
 * [21:04] AramUrthius: For the record, what are the keystrokes for that?
 * [21:05] DaBarkspawn (they): :+:
 * [21:05] AramUrthius: Cool#
 * [21:05] Rupuzioks: : support :
 * [21:05] Stygies VIII: @Atvelonis will tell you how to vote, I guess it is with reactions, perhaps.
 * [21:05] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: :+:
 * [21:05] DaBarkspawn (they): :support:
 * [21:05] Rupuzioks: or just use the emoji window
 * [21:05] Stygies VIII: Decide on one method, because otherwise we will have chaos
 * [21:05] Stygies VIII: Please
 * [21:06] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: :support:
 * [21:06] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: just copy-paste what dabarkspawn did
 * [21:06] AramUrthius: That's :support : without the spaces
 * [21:06] Rupuzioks: yes ^
 * [21:06] DaBarkspawn (they): or type-suggest :supp....
 * [21:06] Stygies VIII: Okay, so we have this settled
 * [21:06] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: :oppose:
 * [21:06] RhodiumOdi: :support:
 * [21:06] AramUrthius: We have :oppose and :neutral too
 * [21:06] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: oppose works too
 * [21:07] DaBarkspawn (they): :support:
 * [21:07] Stygies VIII: neat
 * [21:07] DaBarkspawn (they): :neutral:
 * [21:07] Stygies VIII: so who opens the moot
 * [21:07] DaBarkspawn (they): Fearless Leader
 * [21:07] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: one of the two people who prepared a topic, i guess
 * [21:07] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: that being me or rupuzioks
 * [21:08] Rupuzioks: well, Atvelonis said will participate only partly, so I guess it's me
 * [21:08] GreyFox06: 'Morning.
 * [21:08] Stygies VIII: yeah it is you
 * [21:08] Stygies VIII: hello Fox
 * [21:09] Atvelonis: Ok I am here
 * [21:09] Atvelonis: I am multitasking this and trivial pursuit
 * [21:09] Rupuzioks: Ok, I guess all of the members are in the list anyway, so we can officially open the moot, or still wait a bit for the stragglers?
 * [21:10] Atvelonis: It's been 10 minutes since I sent the ping, I think that is enough
 * [21:10] Rupuzioks: ok
 * [21:10] DaBarkspawn (they): I tried playing Trivial Pursuit, but I kept getting wedged
 * [21:11] Atvelonis: So to begin: the first topic that we have scheduled for today is by Rupuzioks: Discuss the new module and template format for the auto-categorization.
 * [21:11] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: i own a game of trivial pursuit, but it's very old, so especially the pop culture questions are impossible to answer
 * [21:11] Atvelonis: We have another from Ashley afterwards. But for now, Rupuzioks, you have the floor
 * [21:11] Rupuzioks: As might you already know, I am working on the updated module and template for Legends
 * [21:13] Rupuzioks: The goal is to auto-categorize all the categories and introduce some changes to the template itself, mostly to include some icons for the attack, power, cost, etc.
 * [21:13] Rupuzioks: I have an example how the new format looks already here https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/User:Rupuzioks/Sandbox4
 * [21:14] Rupuzioks: I want to discuss every infobox's variable, especially the class and faction one
 * [21:15] Rupuzioks: there was a suggestion to merge them, you can read the convo here https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Template_talk:LegendsCards
 * [21:15] DaBarkspawn (they): Is this scoped strictly to Legends?
 * [21:15] Rupuzioks: So, I guess I need the opinions from anyone, as I already posted mine there
 * [21:15] Stygies VIII: As far as I know, there are no "factions" in Legends, so I think they should have class only
 * [21:16] Stygies VIII: "There is, it was introduced with three-attribute cards in Houses of Morrowind and Alliance War (Legends) expansions. --Rupuzioks (talk) 09:56, December 22, 2019 (UTC) " - these are still classes
 * [21:16] Stygies VIII: tri-color classes
 * [21:16] Rupuzioks: in the game, yes, they are called houses or alliances, but in some official news they are referred as factions
 * [21:17] Atvelonis: Would there be a situation where a card would have a class and a faction? i.e. could we safely merge them, if one term is much more common than another?
 * [21:17] Stygies VIII: No
 * [21:17] Rupuzioks: yes, mainly they are for the tri-colored cards, but they are also referred to the unique game mechanic or keyword
 * [21:18] Stygies VIII: Wait
 * [21:18] Stygies VIII: Aren't factions like classes?
 * [21:18] Rupuzioks: or we just ignore them, and just categorize tri-colored cards to the categories?
 * [21:19] GreyFox06: There is no technical in-game difference between factions (tri-colours) and classes are there?
 * [21:19] Stygies VIII: I think not?
 * [21:19] Stygies VIII: You say that classes are dual colour, while factions are tri colour
 * [21:20] Stygies VIII: I mean Rupuzioks does say
 * [21:20] GreyFox06: One colour is just the attribute. Two colours is a class (archer, assassin, etc), three colours is a faction (Aldmeri Dominion, Guildsworn, etc).
 * [21:20] Rupuzioks: there could be the class with the faction's keyword though, that's what mainly confusing
 * [21:21] Rupuzioks: so if we ignore keywords, then sure it is same as classes
 * [21:21] GreyFox06: Does every faction have a unique keyword?
 * [21:21] Rupuzioks: yes
 * [21:21] Poisoned Apples: Not Dagoth?
 * [21:21] Rupuzioks: or at least unique game mechanic
 * [21:22] GreyFox06: I get each faction naturally has a reliance on a certain playstyle but I don't thing every faction has a specific keyword.
 * [21:22] GreyFox06: What is Empire of Cyrodiil?
 * [21:22] Rupuzioks: those two have specific mechanics
 * [21:22] GreyFox06: So they don't have a specific keyword?
 * [21:22] GreyFox06: *Or not all.
 * [21:23] Stygies VIII: "What is Empire of Cyrodiil?" A faction
 * [21:23] Stygies VIII: tri color
 * [21:23] GreyFox06: Agility, Willpower, and Endurance.
 * [21:23] GreyFox06: Tri-colour, yes.
 * [21:24] Rupuzioks: it has only unique mechanic Card feature – If you have at least one creature in each lane, affect the gameplay with a certain effect.
 * [21:25] Rupuzioks: so, I guess we all leaning to merge class and faction variables
 * [21:25] GreyFox06: It seems logical.
 * [21:25] Rupuzioks: and for faction, we only include tri-colored cards
 * [21:26] Rupuzioks: good, then this is clear now
 * [21:26] Atvelonis: Would we remove faction and move its contents into class?
 * [21:26] Atvelonis: Or come up with a new name?
 * [21:26] Rupuzioks: I think it is fine to merge into class variable
 * [21:27] Stygies VIII: same
 * [21:27] GreyFox06: I don't see a problem with that.
 * [21:27] Atvelonis: I also think that's appropriate
 * [21:27] Stygies VIII: do we vote on each of these, or do we make one big voting at the end?
 * [21:27] Rupuzioks: so next is set variable
 * [21:27] Atvelonis: Let's do a vote at the end of the topic
 * [21:27] Atvelonis: Go ahead Rup
 * [21:29] Rupuzioks: in this variable is everything is prepared for the auto-categorization, except for the Core parameter we create new category Legends: Core Cards
 * [21:29] Rupuzioks: and for the None – Legends: Non-Collectible Cards
 * [21:30] Rupuzioks: Legends: Unobtainable Cards and Legends: Tokens will be merged into Legends: Non-Collectible Cards
 * [21:30] Atvelonis: What is a token?
 * [21:30] Stygies VIII: I see no problem with the categories and the merge, I agree
 * [21:30] Rupuzioks: the issue here is what the unobtainable means
 * [21:30] TinyClayMUr: Ah
 * [21:30] TinyClayMUr: I'm late
 * [21:31] Stygies VIII: "unobtainable" = "can't have it in collection"
 * [21:31] TinyClayMUr: Brief summary anyone?
 * [21:31] Rupuzioks: is it unobtainable outside the game or just in general
 * [21:31] Stygies VIII: brb getting coffee
 * [21:31] Rupuzioks: because tokens you can get into your hand
 * [21:31] Atvelonis: @TinyClayMUr We are merging class and faction in LegendsCards under class
 * [21:31] Atvelonis: Discussing the set variable now
 * [21:31] Rupuzioks: but not in the collection
 * [21:31] Poisoned Apples: Isn't a token a creature card made by another creature card
 * [21:31] Rupuzioks: anything that is created by another card
 * [21:32] Rupuzioks: so I guess there is no need to split the categories
 * [21:32] GreyFox06: Created by another card that cannot be directly added to a deck via collection.
 * [21:32] Rupuzioks: either you can get into your collection or not
 * [21:32] GreyFox06: Why is it a token if it can be in your collection?
 * [21:32] Rupuzioks: this is more simple
 * [21:33] Rupuzioks: most of them cannot be in your collection
 * [21:34] GreyFox06: So Scamp is token because it can't be added via collection but can be played in game via another card.
 * [21:34] Rupuzioks: yes
 * [21:34] GreyFox06: But another card that gives a card that is otherwise avaliable via collection is not a token?
 * [21:34] Stygies VIII: back
 * [21:34] Rupuzioks: in the same time it is unobtainable card outside the gameplay
 * [21:35] GreyFox06: I understand.
 * [21:35] Rupuzioks: for now they are also categorized as a token
 * [21:35] Stygies VIII: @TinyClayMUr we are discussing this https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/User:Rupuzioks/Sandbox4
 * [21:36] Stygies VIII: it is Rupuziok's example
 * [21:36] Rupuzioks: this is my ready to publish test module https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Module:Test
 * [21:36] Rupuzioks: you can see the parameters for the collection
 * [21:37] Rupuzioks: so, is everything clear?
 * [21:37] Stygies VIII: yes
 * [21:37] GreyFox06: Seems so.
 * [21:38] Rupuzioks: while we discuss this, we can rename the variable too, from setto collection
 * [21:38] Stygies VIII: these are pretty much synonyms
 * [21:38] AramUrthius: That would need to be a separte thing to vote on, yes?
 * [21:38] Stygies VIII: also collection means whole collection
 * [21:38] Stygies VIII: set is a set from a DLC or something
 * [21:38] Stygies VIII: so I would keep it as set
 * [21:38] Rupuzioks: when you go to your profile screen, there is collection tab
 * [21:39] Atvelonis: Does the game use the term set?
 * [21:39] Stygies VIII: ah yes
 * [21:39] Stygies VIII: true
 * [21:39] Rupuzioks: it uses both
 * [21:40] Rupuzioks: but it is more reasonable to go with the one from the profile screen
 * [21:40] DaBarkspawn (they): technically a set contains only unique elements, whereas a collection can have duplicates, but I would not be surprised if Beth didn't honor that distinction in their usage.
 * [21:41] Rupuzioks: the collection indeed have duplicates
 * [21:41] Rupuzioks: you can have 3 standard cards each and legendary unique only one in the deck
 * [21:42] Rupuzioks: and the collection can hold more, unless you soul trap the excess
 * [21:43] DaBarkspawn (they): The mathematician in me says that collection is a better term, but I don't know anything about Legends terminology
 * [21:43] Atvelonis: I think that mathematical definitions are a little less important than what readers would consider an intuitive term - so we should focus on that
 * [21:43] Rupuzioks: "deckBuilder.tooltip.fullCollapse": "Deck/Collection View"
 * [21:43] Atvelonis: Whatever is more appropriate in the context of the game
 * [21:44] GreyFox06: To clarify: collections are groups of cards bundled together on a theme and sets are just categorised cards based on expansions?
 * [21:44] Rupuzioks: I think only in the awards and in game files set is used more
 * [21:44] Stygies VIII: In my "feel" both are intuitive
 * [21:45] Rozty Ur: Alright, I'm here as well, briefly skimmed through everything talked about so far, will come and go as I'm kinda on the move
 * [21:45] Rupuzioks: ok, on the profile you have the Collection tab, then you browse through different DLC tabs
 * [21:46] GreyFox06: They're specifically referred to as sets.
 * [21:46] Rupuzioks: so they are categorized by DLC
 * [21:46] Stygies VIII: and we categorize them like this at the wiki, yes?
 * [21:46] Rupuzioks: yes
 * [21:47] Rupuzioks: the debate is between set and collection to use as infobox variable, so it only matters for the editors
 * [21:47] DaBarkspawn (they): I think that mathematical definitions are a little less important than what readers would consider an intuitive term
 * [21:47] DaBarkspawn (they): That's why I caveated what I wrote
 * [21:47] Rozty Ur: Hold on, can we not use both so we have to merge the two?
 * [21:48] Stygies VIII: why
 * [21:48] Stygies VIII: it was meant as the same thing
 * [21:48] Rupuzioks: variable is set, showing for editors, Collection is the label showing to readers
 * [21:49] Rupuzioks: I just suggesting to use one term for both variable and the label
 * [21:49] Rozty Ur: Oh, that's it, OK. Then wouldn't it be better to use the term that appears in the label?
 * [21:49] GreyFox06: Looking in-game, the term 'set' is what's used in menus to refer to cards sorted by expansion.
 * [21:50] Rozty Ur: But they have used the term 'Collection' as well right?
 * [21:50] Rupuzioks: in the profile screen
 * [21:50] GreyFox06: Collection seems to just be the player's personal collection of cards they have to make decks out of.
 * [21:50] GreyFox06: Strictly looking at the in-game usage.
 * [21:51] Rupuzioks: in the end they are the same
 * [21:51] GreyFox06: But sets are categorised by expansion.
 * [21:51] GreyFox06: The player's collection is categorised by attribute and can be filtered by set(s).
 * [21:51] Rozty Ur: So right now in the infobox, the label collection shows the expansion, which the game menu that isn't in the player's profile labels as set?
 * [21:52] Rupuzioks: yes
 * [21:53] Rozty Ur: From what I'm understanding then it might be better to keep the variable as set, and change the label to match, since collection is the cards the player has?
 * [21:53] Rupuzioks: ok, we can do it backwards too
 * [21:53] Rupuzioks: the final goal is to use only one term
 * [21:53] Rupuzioks: whatever it is
 * [21:53] GreyFox06: I think changing the label to set is more appropriate given the in-game terminology.
 * [21:53] Rozty Ur: Ok, then we should do that
 * [21:54] Atvelonis: I thought the variable was already set in the infobox
 * [21:54] Rupuzioks: variable, yes, but not the label
 * [21:54] Rozty Ur: It is
 * [21:54] Atvelonis: Oh
 * [21:54] Atvelonis: Yes I see
 * [21:54] Atvelonis: wow that's extremely weird
 * [21:54] Rozty Ur: :kappa:
 * [21:55] Rupuzioks: module will use collection though, since set can be defined as a function in lua
 * [21:55] Atvelonis: That's not user-facing so not really important. Just leave a comment about it in the documentation
 * [21:55] Atvelonis: But yes if we want to go with set for both the variable and the label then we can do that
 * [21:55] Atvelonis: Objections?
 * [21:56] Rozty Ur: None
 * [21:56] Rupuzioks: I have a test template ready to move to the real template https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/User:Rupuzioks/Sandbox3 so I will make changes here first
 * [21:57] Rupuzioks: and you can see the preview here https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/User:Rupuzioks/Sandbox4
 * [21:57] Rupuzioks: ok, type and subtype is ok as it is
 * [21:58] Rupuzioks: next is cost
 * [21:58] Rupuzioks: the suggestion is to move it next to the attack and power variables
 * [21:58] Rupuzioks: and decide on the position in the infobox for all these 3 to be together
 * [21:59] Rupuzioks: now it is
 * cost        =
 * attributes  =
 * faction     =
 * class       =
 * attack      =
 * health      =
 * rarity      =
 * [22:00] Rupuzioks: in my preview it is moved below before attack
 * [22:00] Rupuzioks: also all of these now include icons next to them
 * [22:00] Rozty Ur: Huh wait, is attack, power and health different things?
 * [22:00] GreyFox06: Aren't attack and power the same?
 * [22:00] Rozty Ur: Actually, what is power
 * [22:00] Rupuzioks: oof
 * [22:01] GreyFox06: The game uses power I think.
 * [22:01] GreyFox06: Instead of "attack".
 * [22:01] Rupuzioks: it is power and health
 * [22:01] Rozty Ur: Lol OK, then we are still on the same page
 * [22:01] Rupuzioks: and again variable and label are different here
 * [22:02] GreyFox06: But the label is correct.
 * [22:02] Rupuzioks: yes
 * [22:02] Rozty Ur: Power should be the word used for both then
 * [22:02] GreyFox06: So the variable doesn't really matter.
 * [22:02] Rozty Ur: And I am in favour of having all three in the same line
 * [22:02] Stygies VIII: Players read power/health/cost when they discuss cards, so I think they should be anywhere in the infobox in that order
 * [22:02] Rupuzioks: I see, that's fine by me
 * [22:03] GreyFox06: Having the statistical numbers together just looks nicer.
 * [22:03] Rupuzioks: then now just the position is left
 * [22:03] Rupuzioks: is it ok where they are now?
 * [22:03] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: damn this topic is taking long
 * [22:03] Rupuzioks: in my example
 * [22:04] Rozty Ur: I'll support what stygies said since I have no clue what the players are saying about the game
 * [22:04] Stygies VIII: Wait, are you talking about them in a row, or?
 * [22:04] Rupuzioks: I'm assuming the position is ok then
 * [22:04] Rozty Ur: The order in the row
 * [22:04] Rupuzioks: no, where in the infobox
 * [22:04] Stygies VIII: Well, when a player says it is a 3/4/5 card, they mean it has 3 power, 4 health and 5 cost
 * [22:05] Stygies VIII: It's a card player slang
 * [22:05] Rupuzioks: in the row doesn't work that nicely
 * [22:05] Rozty Ur: If they are used verbalising the stats like that then they should appear *like that in the infobox, and for our convenience in the code as well
 * [22:05] Rozty Ur: Oof that's a shame
 * [22:05] Rupuzioks: because the icons are different height
 * [22:06] Rozty Ur: Then the next we can do is have them in that order vertically
 * [22:06] Rupuzioks: not all of them centered
 * [22:07] Stygies VIII: can we make them same height
 * [22:07] Rupuzioks: we can, but the power icon with that thin sword looks weird and very small compared to others
 * [22:08] Atvelonis: Send a picture
 * [22:08] Rupuzioks: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/File%3APower_icon_(Legends).png
 * [22:09] Atvelonis: No the infobox haha
 * [22:09] Atvelonis: Just so that we can visualize what the issue is
 * [22:09] Atvelonis: I'm not clear on the formatting
 * [22:10] Rupuzioks: edited my preview
 * [22:10] Rupuzioks: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/User:Rupuzioks/Sandbox4
 * [22:10] Rupuzioks: they are not centered vertically
 * [22:10] Atvelonis: January 2020 Moot Screenshot 1.png
 * [22:10] Atvelonis: Right
 * [22:10] Atvelonis: I remember that we were talking about this
 * [22:11] Atvelonis: I mean this isn't the end of the world
 * [22:12] Atvelonis: If players say power/health/cost then I think we should cater to that to avoid confusing them
 * [22:12] Atvelonis: The icons might be slightly misaligned but it doesn't look bad per se
 * [22:12] Rozty Ur: If we change our mind midway I shall remind you that we can also keep the order vertically :kappa:
 * [22:13] ElderChicken: I wouldn’t have actually noticed unless it was brought up tbh
 * [22:13] Rozty Ur: Horizontally
 * [22:13] Rozty Ur: I am not good English speaker
 * [22:13] Rupuzioks: ok, with the sword one being in front it doesn't look that bad
 * [22:13] Rupuzioks: just updated the preview
 * [22:13] Atvelonis: January 2020 Moot Screenshot 2.png
 * [22:14] Rozty Ur: Ooh that's nicer than I thought
 * [22:14] Rozty Ur: I don't mind it at all, I say we go for that one
 * [22:14] Rupuzioks: sure
 * [22:14] Rupuzioks: so the last thin is text variable linking
 * [22:15] Rupuzioks: I saw some of the new cards have a lot of links in the descriptions
 * [22:15] Stygies VIII: I support the latest preview
 * [22:15] Rozty Ur: When you say a lot, what number do you mean
 * [22:16] Rupuzioks: but that is very inconsistent and heavy on links
 * [22:16] AramUrthius: Right, I'll have to duck out. Food calls
 * [22:16] Atvelonis: Thanks for coming!
 * [22:16] DaBarkspawn (they): What is it saying?
 * [22:16] Rupuzioks: keywords, other card types and sometimes other mechanics are linked
 * [22:16] Rupuzioks: but most of them doesn't have all the links
 * [22:17] Rupuzioks: I'll try to find the example
 * [22:17] Rupuzioks: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Blades_Defender
 * [22:17] Rupuzioks: summon is linked, but not the lane
 * [22:18] Rupuzioks: and sometimes other words are linked but summon is left without the link
 * [22:18] Rozty Ur: Uhh
 * [22:19] Rozty Ur: I can't send screenshots on this channel
 * [22:19] GreyFox06: Being the creator of almost all of the JoO pages, I added links in descriptions based on some other precedent (since there was no clear policy) and it seemed helpful. Lanes weren't linked probably out of neglect.
 * [22:19] Rupuzioks: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Mankar_Camoran_(Legends)
 * [22:20] Rupuzioks: and here action word without the link
 * [22:20] Rozty Ur: But anyway, mobile layout is trash and imo since what the card does, meaning the description, should be discussed in the article anyway, we can keep the links there only
 * [22:20] GreyFox06: Again I would say self-admitted neglect given the 60-80 pages.
 * [22:20] Rozty Ur: Also rup, that last link is not working because discord skips the last parenthesis always
 * [22:21] Rupuzioks: yes, my suggestion is to leave the other card names, and other ones include in the strategy section
 * [22:21] Rupuzioks: it's working for me
 * [22:21] Atvelonis: Oops should be able to send files now
 * [22:21] GreyFox06: You mean add keyword links to strategy sections?
 * [22:21] Rupuzioks: yes, if there are any
 * [22:21] Stygies VIII: So, why not make this a bot task?
 * [22:22] Rozty Ur: That's what I was also imagining
 * [22:22] Rupuzioks: this will be a bot task
 * [22:22] Rozty Ur: Pity that these sections are rarely filled out
 * [22:22] Rupuzioks: since the new module will handle the categories
 * [22:22] GreyFox06: That seems fine, but my though when adding links to keywords in the infobox is that that's where most people look to first.
 * [22:22] Stygies VIII: then I think @Atvelonis could add this to his list and after I finish the current bot task I can do this with my PWB
 * [22:23] Stygies VIII: since I am a Legends player, I'll know what I am doing
 * [22:23] Atvelonis: Yes
 * [22:23] Rozty Ur: I've always been of the thought that linking even two different words as long as they are together can be very confusing
 * [22:23] Rupuzioks: well, for me these descriptions are like quotes, also in italics and are never linked
 * [22:23] Rupuzioks: they are quotes directly from the game
 * [22:23] Atvelonis: A description is a quote, which we don't normally link in
 * [22:24] GreyFox06: And the keywords by themselves have no explanation.
 * [22:24] Atvelonis: Unless the link is actually important for understanding
 * [22:24] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: aren't books also direct quotes from the games? they always have tons of links in them
 * [22:24] Rupuzioks: that's why strategy section exist to explain things there
 * [22:25] GreyFox06: People don't always want to look to walls of text, especially when there is an infobox for easy reference.
 * [22:25] GreyFox06: Quickly clicking a link can be preferable than reading through the strategy.
 * [22:25] Rozty Ur: Isn't it more chaotic to have 3 different links in a short text though?
 * [22:25] Atvelonis: The thinking is that we don't want to emphasize words that aren't important via a link. But if the words are important then it is ok to link them
 * [22:25] Atvelonis: Important to the meaning of the quote
 * [22:25] Atvelonis: i.e. not incidental
 * [22:26] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: btw can someone ping me when my topic comes up? i'm not going to look at this all the time
 * [22:26] Stygies VIII: okay
 * [22:26] Stygies VIII: well, mechanics are important in card games, so I think they should be linked
 * [22:26] Rozty Ur: Most descriptions would require a number of links normally, if they are to be included for every game mechanic, and I don't find that appealing at all
 * [22:27] Rupuzioks: ok, another suggestion, include all mechanics to other variable and link them there
 * [22:27] Rozty Ur: I'd react to Ashley's message but there aren't permissions for that either oof
 * [22:27] GreyFox06: Personally, I don't see it as unappealing, especially if it's easier for readers in navigating and quickly understanding information.
 * [22:27] Rupuzioks: it is rarely used anyway
 * [22:28] DaBarkspawn (they): Yeah, I mentioned the inabilty to react here earlier
 * [22:28] DaBarkspawn (they): :frowning:
 * [22:28] Rupuzioks: some of them are already explained there
 * [22:28] Rupuzioks: they are prompts when you hover over the card
 * [22:29] Atvelonis: Can react now
 * [22:29] Rozty Ur: I've always found multiple links used in a short phrase more confusing than helpful on the other hand. You can't tell how many words one link can contain and it always appears as one huge link if they are all one after the other. It can also be overwhelming if a number of them is seen all together imo
 * [22:30] Atvelonis: If the game bolds them I think it would be ok to link. It's trying to emphasize those terms
 * [22:30] Rupuzioks: RupuzioksToday at 11:27 PM ok, another suggestion, include all mechanics to other variable and link them there
 * [22:31] Rozty Ur: I can agree with that compromise
 * [22:31] GreyFox06: In-game context menus aren't helpful when your reading cards on the Wiki (not in-game) and don't know what "Consume" means and have to manually search for it. Doubly unhelpful given that most cards don't have completed strategy sections where they would be otherwise linked.
 * [22:31] Rupuzioks: waiting for other opinions
 * [22:31] Rozty Ur: My issue is mostly that card descriptions by their design would contain as many key terms as possible, making it weird to link all of them
 * [22:32] GreyFox06: Most cards don't often have a lot of keywords.
 * [22:32] Rozty Ur: Ah, I meant Atvelonis' suggestion BTW
 * [22:32] Atvelonis: So for Legends cards, link words that are in bold that have pages?
 * [22:33] Atvelonis: for descriptions
 * [22:33] Rozty Ur: Yeah, I have no problem with that
 * [22:33] GreyFox06: That works.
 * [22:34] Stygies VIII: sure
 * [22:34] Rozty Ur: Even if they don't often have keywords, I think it's better to have a straightforward guideline like that
 * [22:34] Rozty Ur: Since then you'd know exactly what to link at all times, it's not as arbitrary
 * [22:35] Rupuzioks: so how about other variable? we will remove the explanations from there then?
 * [22:35] Rupuzioks: some cards have the explanation there already
 * [22:35] Atvelonis: What is other?
 * [22:35] GreyFox06: I think we just use other for summon: bonus effects
 * [22:35] Rupuzioks: anything else that does not include in other variables
 * [22:35] Atvelonis: Can you give an example?
 * [22:36] Rupuzioks: it is used to show which month and year is monthly card reward
 * [22:36] Rupuzioks: all monthly cards have it
 * [22:36] Rupuzioks: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Monthly_Card
 * [22:37] Rupuzioks: I set up a DPL based on that
 * [22:37] Rupuzioks: they also contain buff names
 * [22:37] Rupuzioks: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Imbued_Argonian
 * [22:38] Rupuzioks: btw, this card has consume explanation
 * [22:39] Stygies VIII: is it the popup text that appears in game when you hover over the card?
 * [22:39] Rupuzioks: yes
 * [22:39] Stygies VIII: okay, then this might be useful
 * [22:39] Stygies VIII: cards in TESL have popups that further explain their mechanics
 * [22:39] Stygies VIII: you can check them out even mid-match
 * [22:39] Atvelonis: Ok that's good to include if it's unique per card
 * [22:40] Atvelonis: But it shouldn't be called other
 * [22:40] Rupuzioks: that's why I had another suggestion to link them there
 * [22:40] Atvelonis: other is a useless designation, it should be called mechanics or something
 * [22:40] Atvelonis: if that's what it is
 * [22:41] GreyFox06: Doesn't it become rather long-winded if mechanics are directly inserted into every infobox rather than linked?
 * [22:41] Rupuzioks: maybe effects
 * [22:41] Atvelonis: they are going to be linked, we've already decided that
 * [22:41] Atvelonis: are these explanations unique per card?
 * [22:41] Atvelonis: Or are they generic?
 * [22:42] GreyFox06: Every keyword is the same: every guard is the same guard, etc
 * [22:42] Atvelonis: so if you roll over the popup on card A, and you roll over the popup on card B, it's the same
 * [22:42] Atvelonis: Yes?
 * [22:42] Poisoned Apples: It's unique if the effect it gives is unique
 * [22:42] Rupuzioks: yes
 * [22:42] GreyFox06: For the same keyword, yes.
 * [22:42] Atvelonis: If so, that is not something to include in the infobox
 * [22:42] Rupuzioks: only buffs are unique
 * [22:42] Atvelonis: If the keyword is linked, then we shouldn't include the explanation of the keyword
 * [22:42] GreyFox06: Right.
 * [22:42] Rupuzioks: for every card
 * [22:43] GreyFox06: I'm fine with having explanations for unique bonus effects for cards that have them.
 * [22:43] Atvelonis: If they are unique yes
 * [22:43] Atvelonis: If they are not unique no
 * [22:43] Atvelonis: works for me
 * [22:43] Rupuzioks: ok, then it's clear here
 * [22:43] Atvelonis: Alright any objections?
 * [22:43] GreyFox06: None from me.
 * [22:44] Rupuzioks: second to last is to remove Legends: Prophecy Cards category
 * [22:44] Rupuzioks: other mechanics do not have their own categories too
 * [22:45] DaBarkspawn (they): Favor: I also need to step away for a bit and I'm mostly here for TBPA's topic, so please ping me, also
 * [22:45] GreyFox06: Would it be useful to have other keyword categories?
 * [22:45] Rupuzioks: if there is, then one card sometimes can have over 20 categories
 * [22:45] Stygies VIII: I don't think so
 * [22:45] Stygies VIII: unless we put cards together by DPL on keyword pages
 * [22:46] GreyFox06: I've never seen more than three keywords on a card.
 * [22:46] Rupuzioks: including other categories from other variables
 * [22:46] GreyFox06: So is there no use for categories for keywords?
 * [22:47] Rupuzioks: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Dagoth_Ur_(Legends)
 * [22:47] Rupuzioks: 6 keywords
 * [22:47] GreyFox06: There are a few outliers.
 * [22:47] Rupuzioks: +each attribute, type, subtype, set, class, etc.
 * [22:48] GreyFox06: But the vast majority of cards have one or two.
 * [22:48] Rupuzioks: ok, this card would have 18 categories then
 * [22:48] GreyFox06: But the question stands: is there are use for keyword categories. If not than we should get rid of it.
 * [22:48] Rupuzioks: even now it has 12
 * [22:49] Atvelonis: 12 is not that bad
 * [22:49] GreyFox06: What's the problem with lots of categories if they provide a use?
 * [22:49] GreyFox06: A useful use.
 * [22:49] Atvelonis: If the categories are useful then it is ok to have them
 * [22:49] Atvelonis: Excessive categories are more of a problem if it's like, 50
 * [22:50] GreyFox06: For DPL purposes, keyword categories may be useful.
 * [22:50] Rupuzioks: so we create categories for other keywords and mechanics?
 * [22:50] Stygies VIII: Okay
 * [22:50] Stygies VIII: one question
 * [22:50] Atvelonis: How are they entered into the infobox?
 * [22:50] GreyFox06: If they're general enough. Common keywords that are used by many different cards.
 * [22:50] Atvelonis: I don't know what a keyword is
 * [22:50] Stygies VIII: do you want all cards with a given keyword collected on a specific page, e.g. keyword page?
 * [22:50] Atvelonis: There's no variable for it
 * [22:50] GreyFox06: Guard, Prophecy, Lethal, etc are keywords.
 * [22:50] Stygies VIII: Guard, Lethal, etc
 * [22:51] Stygies VIII: words that mean effects
 * [22:51] Rupuzioks: they are now using DPL anyway, no issue there
 * [22:51] GreyFox06: Right.
 * [22:51] Stygies VIII: wait, so we don't need categories for keywords for DPL, yes?
 * [22:51] Stygies VIII: then I see no other use for them
 * [22:51] Rupuzioks: but not all of them are considered keywords
 * [22:51] Stygies VIII: I'd say we don;t add them if we don't need them
 * [22:51] GreyFox06: Are keywords sorted DPL already?
 * [22:51] Atvelonis: Well categories are useful for readers
 * [22:51] Atvelonis: Not just DPL
 * [22:52] Rupuzioks: yes they are sorted
 * [22:52] Atvelonis: How are they actually entered into the infobox though?
 * [22:52] Atvelonis: If we want to auto-categorize
 * [22:52] Stygies VIII: in the description
 * [22:52] GreyFox06: keywords are part of the description.
 * [22:52] GreyFox06: The bold type.
 * [22:52] Atvelonis: Yeah but that's not a way that we can use for autocategorization
 * [22:53] Rupuzioks: #replace: parser function
 * [22:53] GreyFox06: That's why I'm wondering how are they in DPL tables?
 * [22:53] Rupuzioks: the best here, module will not be helpful here
 * [22:53] Stygies VIII: magic
 * [22:53] Rupuzioks: or at least I don't know how
 * [22:53] Atvelonis: keywords variable
 * [22:54] Atvelonis: ?
 * [22:54] Atvelonis: or whatever idk
 * [22:54] Atvelonis: I just don't want to have to manually add all these
 * [22:54] GreyFox06: I don't think a new variable is necessary.
 * [22:54] GreyFox06: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Lethal
 * [22:54] Rupuzioks:
 * [22:54] GreyFox06: I assume other keywords have these?
 * [22:55] Atvelonis: So that would add the category properly?
 * [22:55] Rupuzioks: yes
 * [22:55] Atvelonis: Ok then I'm okay with that
 * [22:55] Rupuzioks: and if it is linked, use \[\[and \]\] syntax
 * [22:56] Rupuzioks: to find it
 * [22:56] Atvelonis: wut?
 * [22:56] Rupuzioks: module doesn't allow these symbols
 * [22:56] Atvelonis: Oh, in Lua
 * [22:56] Rupuzioks: but parser function does
 * [22:56] Atvelonis: Yes to escape
 * [22:56] Atvelonis: That's all back-end stuff
 * [22:56] Atvelonis: Can be figured out
 * [22:56] Rupuzioks: yes
 * [22:56] Atvelonis: But are we okay with this system?
 * [22:57] Rupuzioks: ok, so we create the categories then?
 * [22:57] Atvelonis: I think so
 * [22:57] GreyFox06: I think may as well, they can only help readers.
 * [22:58] Rupuzioks: ok, so the last thing is to merge unique variable into rarity
 * [22:58] Rozty Ur: I was not here for this last part, but I'm fine with whatever you decide
 * [22:58] Rupuzioks: unique cards are only Legendaries that have the gem at the top
 * [22:59] GreyFox06: Do we use "No" for non-uniques or just mark uniques as "Yes"?
 * [22:59] Rupuzioks:
 * [22:59] Rupuzioks: here is my code
 * [23:00] Rupuzioks: so we have other rarities and then Unique legendary
 * [23:00] Atvelonis: I don't know anything about Legends but I don't have an issue with that if Legends players don't
 * [23:01] Rupuzioks: any objections?
 * [23:02] Stygies VIII: okay
 * [23:02] Stygies VIII: I think it's fine
 * [23:02] Rupuzioks: so at last the summary, I need to gather everything
 * [23:02] Atvelonis: How about let's vote on them individually just for our own sanity
 * [23:02] Rozty Ur: This might take a while if you weren't taking notes :kappa:
 * [23:03] Rupuzioks: ok
 * [23:03] Atvelonis: I can scroll up and find them, one second
 * [23:03] Rozty Ur: I am a benevolent person, you can have my support votes for everything :kappa:
 * [23:03] Stygies VIII: count Rozty's votes as "yes" for all moots ever
 * [23:03] Rupuzioks: Merge faction into class and ignore the unique keywords and mechanics from them.
 * [23:04] Rupuzioks: :support:
 * [23:04] Rozty Ur: :surprised pikachu face:
 * [23:04] Rozty Ur: I did not consider the consequences
 * [23:04] Stygies VIII: :support:
 * [23:04] Atvelonis: So the first sub-topic that we're voting on is to remove the faction variable from LegendsCards and move its content to class.
 * [23:04] Rozty Ur: Also isn't it easier to react to a message directly?
 * [23:04] Stygies VIII: shhh Atv we are voting
 * [23:04] GreyFox06: :support:
 * [23:04] Atvelonis: :support:
 * [23:04] Atvelonis: tradition
 * [23:04] Rozty Ur: :support:
 * [23:04] DaBarkspawn (they): :neutral:
 * [23:05] Poisoned Apples: :support:
 * [23:05] Rupuzioks: "6-0-1"
 * [23:06] Atvelonis: 6-1-0 actually
 * [23:06] Atvelonis: support-neutral-oppose
 * [23:06] Atvelonis: Other votes?
 * [23:07] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: :support:
 * [23:07] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: Hi
 * [23:08] ElderChicken: :support:
 * [23:08] Rozty Ur: 8-1-0 then
 * [23:08] Rozty Ur: for the first one
 * [23:08] Atvelonis: Ok
 * [23:08] Rupuzioks: Create Legends: Core Cards for the Core parameter; merge Legends: Unobtainable Cards and Legends: Tokens into Legends: Non-Collectible Cards and change variable's label from Collection to Set
 * [23:08] Rozty Ur: your time is coming soon ashley
 * [23:09] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: :support: i don't understand what i'm supporting, but you seem like good folks
 * [23:09] Atvelonis: :support:
 * [23:09] GreyFox06: :support:
 * [23:09] Rozty Ur: :support:
 * [23:09] DaBarkspawn (they): :neutral:
 * [23:09] Poisoned Apples: :support:
 * [23:09] Rupuzioks: :support:
 * [23:09] Atvelonis: 6-1-0
 * [23:09] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: I concur
 * [23:09] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: :support:
 * [23:09] Atvelonis: 7-1-0
 * [23:09] Stygies VIII: :support:
 * [23:09] Atvelonis: 8-1-0
 * [23:09] DaBarkspawn (they): i don't understand what i'm supporting
 * [23:09] DaBarkspawn (they): Is more or less why I vote neutral
 * [23:10] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: it's not like my vote actually mattered. it would have passed anyway.
 * [23:10] Rozty Ur: i vote support because i have put my trust in you guys uwu :relieved:
 * [23:10] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: It’s the cards that you (as the player) can’t use
 * [23:11] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: that's all cards as i don't play legends
 * [23:11] Rozty Ur: that and this one thing was something i actually participated in the convo for
 * [23:11] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: No point have two separate lists for what are more or less the same things
 * [23:11] Rupuzioks: Have power, health and cost in a group horizontally and add icons next to them.
 * [23:11] Rozty Ur: :support:
 * [23:11] TinyClayMUr: (+)
 * [23:11] GreyFox06: :support:
 * [23:11] TinyClayMUr: :support:
 * [23:11] Rupuzioks: I suppose no need a reminder image
 * [23:11] Poisoned Apples: :support:
 * [23:11] Rozty Ur: old habits die hard
 * [23:11] Atvelonis: :support:
 * [23:11] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: :neutral:
 * [23:11] Stygies VIII: :support:
 * [23:11] Rupuzioks: :support:
 * [23:11] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: Is this for all games or just some?
 * [23:11] Atvelonis: 6-1-0
 * [23:11] Atvelonis: Legends
 * [23:11] Rupuzioks: Legends
 * [23:11] Stygies VIII: Legends
 * [23:11] GreyFox06: Just Legends.
 * [23:11] Stygies VIII: cccccombo
 * [23:11] Rozty Ur: this is all for Legends infobox
 * [23:12] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: :support:
 * [23:12] Atvelonis: 8-1-0
 * [23:13] Rupuzioks: In the description only use links on the bolded words if there is a page and not the page itself. Also create categories for each keyword and mechanic.
 * [23:13] Stygies VIII: :support:
 * [23:13] Atvelonis: :support:
 * [23:13] Poisoned Apples: :support:
 * [23:13] Rupuzioks: :support:
 * [23:13] GreyFox06: :support:
 * [23:13] Atvelonis: 5-0-0
 * [23:13] Rozty Ur: :support:
 * [23:13] TinyClayMUr: :support:
 * [23:14] TinyClayMUr: ahem
 * [23:14] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: :oppose: trollolol
 * [23:14] Rozty Ur: treason
 * [23:14] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: jk :support:
 * [23:14] Rozty Ur: you shall never be separate from the hive mind
 * [23:14] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: :support:
 * [23:14] Atvelonis: 9-0-0
 * [23:15] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: Perfect score
 * [23:15] DaBarkspawn (they): :neutral:
 * [23:15] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: Never mind
 * [23:15] DaBarkspawn (they): :smile:
 * [23:15] Atvelonis: 9-1-0
 * [23:16] Rupuzioks: other can only have buff explanations and other related information, while keywords' and mechanics' explanations will be removed if there is any. Also rename it to effects.
 * [23:16] Stygies VIII: :support:
 * [23:16] Atvelonis: :support:
 * [23:16] GreyFox06: :support:
 * [23:16] Rupuzioks: :support:
 * [23:16] TinyClayMUr: :support:
 * [23:16] Poisoned Apples: :support:
 * [23:16] Atvelonis: 6-0-0
 * [23:16] Rozty Ur: :neutral:
 * [23:16] Atvelonis: 6-1-0
 * [23:17] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: :neutral:
 * [23:17] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: Uncertain about that
 * [23:17] DaBarkspawn (they): :neutral:
 * [23:17] Atvelonis: 6-3-0
 * [23:17] Rozty Ur: with this we are done right?
 * [23:17] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: i still have a topic
 * [23:18] Rupuzioks: Merge uniqueinto rarity as a separate rarity named Unique legendary. Also add icons next to them.
 * [23:18] Rozty Ur: yee i meant for legends
 * [23:18] Rozty Ur: :support:
 * [23:18] Rupuzioks: this is the last summary
 * [23:18] Stygies VIII: :support:
 * [23:18] Poisoned Apples: :support:
 * [23:18] GreyFox06: :support:
 * [23:18] Atvelonis: :support:
 * [23:18] Atvelonis: 5-0-0
 * [23:18] Rupuzioks: :support:
 * [23:18] Atvelonis: 6-0-0
 * [23:18] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: :support:
 * [23:18] Stygies VIII: @The Beautiful Princess Ashley @DaBarkspawn (they) your topic is coming soon
 * [23:19] DaBarkspawn (they): One day my ship will come...
 * [23:19] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: dabarkspawn has something too?
 * [23:19] Atvelonis: 7-0-0
 * [23:19] DaBarkspawn (they): no, I just asked to be pinged
 * [23:19] DaBarkspawn (they): :neutral:
 * [23:19] Atvelonis: 7-1-0
 * [23:19] Rozty Ur: i think we are finally done
 * [23:19] Rozty Ur: with legends
 * [23:19] TinyClayMUr: :support:
 * [23:19] Mitochondria: (+)
 * [23:19] Rupuzioks: yes
 * [23:19] Atvelonis: vote via :support:
 * [23:19] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: :support: to being done with legends
 * [23:19] Atvelonis: 8-1-0 with tiny
 * [23:20] Atvelonis: 9-1-0 with ash
 * [23:20] DaBarkspawn (they): This is more like an Entmoot
 * [23:20] Mitochondria: :support:
 * [23:20] Atvelonis: 10-1-0
 * [23:20] ElderChicken: :support:
 * [23:20] Atvelonis: 11-1-0
 * [23:20] Rozty Ur: two hours for one topic, just like those eso ones tiny would bring up
 * [23:20] Rupuzioks: I will update module and template and let the bot to do the rest
 * [23:21] TinyClayMUr: ah, just like in good old times...
 * [23:21] Atvelonis: Add a link to the moot summary on my tasklist
 * [23:21] Rupuzioks: or if anyone is willing do some of them by hand as they encounter the pages
 * [23:21] Atvelonis: @The Beautiful Princess Ashley If we are done with this topic then go ahead with yours
 * [23:21] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: ok
 * [23:24] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: This better be good
 * [23:25] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: recently as i was editing our Kynareth article, it came to my attention that we have a separate article about Kyne, even though they're essentially the same deity. some alternate names for deities have their own articles like that, while others are redirects to the main deity's page. there doesn't seem to any systematic logic as to which ones get separate pages and which don't (for example, Magrus and Magnus have separate pages, whereas Lorkhaj redirects to Lorkhan). i would therefore like to propose that we devise some kind of standard for this; either treat all alternate names as separate, or try to combine all alternate versions of the same deity into a single article
 * [23:25] Atvelonis: Ooh this is complex
 * [23:25] Atvelonis: Uh
 * [23:25] Atvelonis: I think that is a CT topic
 * [23:26] Atvelonis: I don't think we can really decide this quickly
 * [23:26] Atvelonis: Takes research
 * [23:26] GreyFox06: Yay.
 * [23:26] Rozty Ur: wouldn't it also depend on how much we can really say about each deity?
 * [23:26] TinyClayMUr: We can include different interpretations of a single deity on one page
 * [23:26] Rozty Ur: that's also a thought i had
 * [23:26] DaBarkspawn (they): Just as a general note, I find it better to do as TCM suggests, puts info all in one place
 * [23:27] Atvelonis: I personally think that we should have separate aspects of deities on different pages
 * [23:27] Atvelonis: Lorkhan is not the same as Shor is not the same as Shezarr
 * [23:27] Atvelonis: Even though they are all "the same," they are not the same
 * [23:27] Rozty Ur: i get that
 * [23:27] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: they are viewed differently, but they are the same entity
 * [23:27] DaBarkspawn (they): but I am much more in favor of consistency: either all deities are one per page or all deities are one page per name
 * [23:27] Atvelonis: And honestly at a certain point since Shezarr is Akatosh then merging all of them is actively confusing
 * [23:28] DaBarkspawn (they): some one way and some another does not make me happy
 * [23:28] Rozty Ur: but for most do we know enough to justify a whole new page rather than a subsection in an article?
 * [23:28] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: Shezarr is shor, not akatosh
 * [23:28] Atvelonis: It's extremely complicated
 * [23:28] Stygies VIII: Ohhh I left for a sec and I see this
 * [23:28] GreyFox06: Debatable.
 * [23:28] DaBarkspawn (they): lol
 * [23:28] Stygies VIII: This will be simple usually, but rarely can be problematic
 * [23:28] Stygies VIII: Usually there is no doubt Kyne is Kynareth
 * [23:28] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: the time god and the missing god are clearly separate entities
 * [23:28] Stygies VIII: or Shor is Shezarr
 * [23:29] DaBarkspawn (they): Shor 'nough
 * [23:29] Mitochondria: Heh
 * [23:29] GreyFox06: If differing interpretations of the same deity are significant enough, and not just a name difference, a separate page may be justified.
 * [23:29] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: At the very minimum we should make it clearer what other names/identities/religions etc the deity have to make it easier for people
 * [23:29] GreyFox06: Especially if there are unique historical and anthropological implications with each interpretation.
 * [23:29] Atvelonis: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/f/p/3100000000000157008/r/3087807785176137556
 * [23:30] Rozty Ur: they are different, but at the same time they are not
 * [23:30] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: i'd prefer to have them on the same page except if there's reasonable doubt that they're the same. when i read up on Kynareth, i also want to know what the Nords think of her.
 * [23:30] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: Simple really
 * [23:30] DaBarkspawn (they): While I understand what @GreyFox06 means, I think that distinction is less important to the average reader who is trying to find something out
 * [23:30] ElderChicken: A whole page though? Seems like it would be easier to distinguish different interpretations on the same one
 * [23:30] GreyFox06: Pages can have sections dedicated to other culture's interpretations with its own main page.
 * [23:30] Rozty Ur: https://gyazo.com/a18f9a65687b5d4afbae6f2473c05391
 * [23:30] Stygies VIII: "At the very minimum we should make it clearer what other names/identities/religions etc the deity have to make it easier for people" I agree
 * [23:30] Stygies VIII: a template?
 * [23:31] Rozty Ur: :kappa:
 * [23:32] Rozty Ur: i think that we already make it clear that different interpretations exist in the pages of the main imperial deities
 * [23:32] Atvelonis: Okay so this topic is definitely much too complicated for a moot. But @The Beautiful Princess Ashley if you want to continue it then you can create a Forum topic and we can run a Consensus Track thread.
 * [23:32] Rozty Ur: in the lede, we always include "alternate names", whether a page for them exists separately or is a redirect to the main one
 * [23:33] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: It could be set out like this:
 * [23:33] DaBarkspawn (they): yes
 * [23:33] Atvelonis: I have to go soon - we're running past 2 hours now and should wrap things up
 * [23:33] Atvelonis: Can move this conversation to #elderscrolls as it is more lore than policy, and talk about the policy on the CT
 * [23:33] Rozty Ur: maybe have the best of both worlds and make it so both a section in the page of the main deity as well as a page for the other religion's interpretation exist?
 * [23:33] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: sure
 * [23:33] Rozty Ur: yeah
 * [23:33] DaBarkspawn (they): I think punting to a thread is a good idea
 * [23:33] ElderChicken: Seems like an idea to me
 * [23:34] DaBarkspawn (they): To @Rozty Ur
 * [23:34] Stygies VIII: I think linking to other names, but making this a CT is a good idea
 * [23:34] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: I guess discuss it more and if we have some kind of consensus put it in the next moot
 * [23:34] Atvelonis: CT overrides moot
 * [23:34] DaBarkspawn (they): en each section put Main article... for the reference
 * [23:34] Atvelonis: Moot is like a CT that is for small things
 * [23:34] Stygies VIII: Like, usually, there is no doubt about deities
 * [23:34] Stygies VIII: but it can be problematic
 * [23:34] Atvelonis: Once it's in CT the moot is meaningless :stuck_out_tongue:
 * [23:35] Mr_Riddle0h0h0h: Fair enough
 * [23:35] Stygies VIII: Ashley did good though, because it DOES need some kind of standard
 * [23:35] Rozty Ur: yeah, better to move it to CT
 * [23:35] Stygies VIII: it's a little messy
 * [23:35] The Beautiful Princess Ashley: so, once it's in a ct, the moot is essentially moot?
 * [23:35] Rozty Ur: standards are great
 * [23:35] Atvelonis: lol
 * [23:36] Atvelonis: Anyway. By the power vested in me by Todd Howard and Jimbo Wales, I hereby declare this moot to be complete! This channel will be locked until the next moot, which will take place on Saturday, February 1st at 8:00 PM UTC.