Board Thread:Skyrim/@comment-11344160-20160205154012/@comment-26693897-20160205165756

Frozenhero1 wrote: I've noticed an overwhelming sentiment within these forums that the Empire is the way of the future. I disagree.

But the Stormcloaks are racists! No they're not. They're nationalists. There are racists in Windhelm, two by my count, but neither of them seem to be Stormcloaks. Ulfric brought a bunch of Dunmer refugees into his city rather than turn them away. Maybe the Grey Quarter is a slum, but what is Ulfric supposed to do - give them all nice houses and a bunch of gold? As for the Argonians and Kah-jeet, I'm not sure I'd be eager to let walking/talking cats and lizards into my home either (especially the Kah-jeet, who have proven themselves time and time again to be criminals, drug addicts, and thieves). Ulfric is VERY nacionalistic but his followers are all racists (exept Ralof and Solaf). Galmar and his brother are the worst kind. As for the Dark Elves, they are refugees and I agree refugees shouldnt demand, but don't you think the guards and by extension the Jarl could do a bit more about the drunk who rounds up Stormcloak supporters and physically bullies the Dark Elves? The same guy who walks up and down the Gray Quarter threatening violence? At least with Brunwulf he starts a dialog with them to find out what their needs are. And you spoke like a true Stormcloak when you said you don't want "cats and lizard" in your city. "Skyrim belongs to the Nords” sounds pretty catchy, patriotic and sense-of-belonging enough, cool if you are a Nord, but it also means "Skyrim belongs to nobody else".

But Ulfric is a Thalmor agent! No he's not. The Thalmor consider him an 'asset' (and an unwilling one to boot), but that same document everyone references also states that the Thalmor are against either side prevailing in the Rebellion. They understand that if the Stormcloaks secure a quick victory it would be that much more difficult for the Dominion. Skyrim and Cyrodill, without Civil War, regardless of the 'victor', is a stronger Skyrim and Cyrodill, even seperate. I want to get the line from the Thalmor Dossier - Ulfric Stormcloak "A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed." The Thalmor are USING the Stormcloaks! This is very clear in the line "Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim". If the Empire are working for the Thalmor, why would an Imperial victory in Skyrim be a hindrance to them? I do not think that Ulfric is a Thalmor agent, but, rather, that he is a tool in their dissolution of mankind. Ulfric is distracting and shrinking the Empire. Although he is not directly working for the Thalmor, he is ultimately becoming a useful playing piece in their conquest. Ulfric is pretty much handing the Empire on a silver platter to the Thalmor.

If Skyrim rebels it weakens the Empire! So? I've got news for you - the 'Empire' is over. They've lost most of their provinces and the whole thing is crumbling. Skyrim is perfectly capable of standing on its own. What people seem to miss is that Skyrim gaining independence doesn't automatically make them enemies with Cyrodill. They can still be friends, trade, and even fight against the Dominion together. Kind of like America and England. Losing Skyrim splits the imperial forces, cuts supply lines and all around makes everyone more vulnerable. If Cyrodiil falls because of lack of resources and men, that puts the Dominion right at Skyrim's front door, with nothing but ex-legionaries and civilians who took up the sword to defend her. On top of all that an independant Skyrim would just brag to the Dominion they're back to worshipping Talos openly, and if you subscribe to the idea the Thalmor are trying to destroy the towers and eradicate men, where do you think they'll turn their attentions to? After the civil war, they would be far too weak to defend themselves alone, since no one is coming to their rescue. It's this type of short sighted thinking that got Skyrim into this civil war to begin with. Also why would the Empire forge an alliance with Skyrim to fight against the Dominion if they lose it in the civil war? They just lost an entire legion to a bunch of pro-Nords barbarians yelling about how they want to kill imperials dogs, the wounds would be too fresh to even think of an alliance.

But Ulfric is an egomaniac! Yeah, probably. But at least he's got a spine. Looking around at the other Jarls, I don't see much in the way of effective leadership. Most of them are complete tools or puppets, with the one exception being Balgruuf in Whiterun, but he's a little indecisive and wishy-washy. If Elisif was made High Queen she would be dancing on the strings of the Imperials, who are (understandably) going to serve their own interests at the expense of Skyrim. She has shown that she cares for the people, but has also demonstrated absolutely no backbone when it comes to her bureaucracy. If Ulfric got a spine, he would fight against the Thalmor. But no, it's totally the Empire who's the disgusting ones here. If you finished the civil war to both Imperials and Stormcloaks, honestly go to each hold capitol city, and speak to each Jarl. Listen to how they now speak of Skyrim. All the Stormcloak Jarls speak of is just anti-Empire, pro-Nord, racist towards all elves or just this short sighted bitterness. Almost all of the Imperial appointed Jarls talk about rebuilding, making Skyrim great, amending past mistakes, and preparing to fight the Thalmor. The only thing I agree here is Elisif doesn't deserve to be High Queen, but Ulfric doesn't deserve to be High King either.

If Skyrim become independent, they'll have a whole host of problems. They'll need to come up with things like their own currency, which will cause temporary economic havoc. They'll need to fill the vacuum created by the absence of the East Empire trading company. They'll need to form a cohesive military. And, ultimately, they'll have to figure out how to deal with the Aldmeri Dominion. But they can do all of these things. The Nords have done it before. Hell, the Nords invented the Empire. They can do it again. Skyrim has been a major part of the Empire for centuries. It's not as if being independent would mean the economy will transition smoothly. A lot of the business owners are imperial aligned. A lot of rules changes, taxes change, anyone trading with Skyrim would no longer be trading with the Empire, it'd be trading with a foreign power, which is fine for places like Morrowind where the Empire was a foreign power, but if they were already trading with Skyrim and suddenly the taxes change, get raised, or imperial protection disappears, land owners change, there are tons we can't even speculate on. The bottom line is Skyrim's entire economy is based within the Empire, and if they leave there’s a huge period of confusion followed by taxes and new contracts. And Skyrim isn’t rich with tons of resources that make it self sustaining while it's transitioning to independence. As for the military, you're discounting the fact Ulfric himself says the Stormcloaks cannot fight the entire Empire in an open invasion. Should you attempt to attack Solitude while the Dark Brotherhood quest "Bound Unitl Death" is active, you're met with this direct quote from Ulfric: "We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now." If he admits he couldn't face a full invasion from the Empire, what real chance does he have against the Dominion (who I might also add, includes forces from Summerset Isle, Valenwood and Elsweyr)?