Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-95.94.124.138-20130922100323/@comment-13446185-20140410212546

70.34.133.250 wrote: Dovahsebrom wrote: 70.34.133.250 wrote: BOSS SUKR wrote: Agreed, Sovangarde can't be for just Nords cuz thats racist it should be for those who have accomplished great deeds in life.

This is all from my opinion No. Sovngarge is DEFINED as the nordic afterlife in ES lore. I'm sure all the other races have their own afterlives, and also their own "halls" where they reside. Either way, it's descibes as Nordic specifically at every turn. In Morrowind/Oblivion, nobody's talkin' about going to Sovrngarde when they die that isn't a Nord. 'Nuff said. I've never once seen any sources that specifically say that only Nords are allowed into Sovngarde, only that "all valiant Nords can enter Sovngarde" (which does not mean that only Nords can go there).

The Dovahkiin seems to prove that other races can enter and be accepted into the Hall of Valor (before you say that the Dragonborn is only allowed in because of his prophecy I'll let you know that there is not even one source that implies this).

Obviously Nords do have a privilage when it comes to Sovngarde (as they only need to show prowess in battle), but there is nothing that says that other races who worship Nordic gods, lives a Nordic lifestyle, and is a great warrior can't go to Sovngarde (hence Bethesda having a Redguard wishing entrance into the plane).

The reason why Nords are allowed into Sovngarde (and possibly why Sovngarde actually exists) is because Sovngarde comes from their religion. This is why I find it hard to believe that Sovngarde is lmited to strictly Nords, as anyone can follow a religion. Eh...you should read the in-game book Sovngarde, a Reexamination. Also, on this very wiki, the Sovngarde page begins by calling it specifically the Nordic Afterlife. In the real world, different cultures/religions have different afterlife lore. Same thing here. You say you've never seen where it specifically says only Nords are allowed in? Well where, and this includes the end of Skyrim's mq, have you seen/heard of anyone besides nords dwelling there? Aside from your pc if you aren't a Nord, everyone there is a Nord when you go there. All you ever DO hear about is Nords in relation to Sovngarde. If anyone were allowed in, that simply would not be the case.

And yes, there IS a source that implies that the DB gets to go regardless of race because of the prophecy. The game. itself. The prophecy says the DB will destroy Alduin for good, but this can only be done in Sovngarde. He cannot be killed in Nirn. So the DB has to go to Sovngarde regardless of their race. If they don't, the prophecy cannot come to pass. That said, they're gonna let you choose any race to play with regardless of whether it makes sense or not. Sometimes in games "making sense" has to step aside for gameplay/functionality reasons.

And the Redguard that wants in? Yeah, he WANTS in, but GETTING in is another matter. In Dragon Age:Origins there is a dwarf that's wants to go to the Circle Tower where mages study. Dwarves cannot use magic in the DA 'verse, but she still wants to go. It's the same kind of thing. Makes the world feel more alive when you have a few folks acting out of the "norm" for that type of character instead of everyone of a given race behaving the same way. I mean I WANT to bang a Victoria's Secret Angel, but it ain't happenin' lol.

'Eh...you should read the in-game book Sovngarde, a Reexamination. Also, on this very wiki, the Sovngarde page begins by calling it specifically the Nordic Afterlife.'

I did actually, in fact I quoted it

"I've never once seen any sources that specifically say that only Nords are allowed into Sovngarde, only that "all valiant Nords can enter Sovngarde" (which does not mean that only Nords can go there) "

that italicized part comes from the book.

Also you shouldn't take a wiki pages word for anything, especially on uncited pages.

'In the real world, different cultures/religions have different afterlife lore. Same thing here.'

"And say there is a Breton hero of Skyrim who lived a Nordic lifestyle and worshipped Nordic gods. Would it be fair if he wasn't alowed entrance into Sovngarde when he died?"


 * ^culture                                     ^religion


 * culture + religion ≠ race

'You say you've never seen where it specifically says only Nords are allowed in? Well where, and this includes the end of Skyrim's mq, have you seen/heard of anyone besides nords dwelling there? Aside from your pc if you aren't a Nord, everyone there is a Nord when you go there. All you ever DO hear about is Nords in relation to Sovngarde. If anyone were allowed in, that simply would not be the case.'

Well if your going to pull out that scenario, let me ask you this.

When have you ever seen any non-Nord character (in-game and in lore) live a Nordic lifestyle and worship Nordic gods?

The prophecy says the DB will destroy Alduin for good, but this can only be done in Sovngarde.

Where does it ever say in the prophecy that Alduin could only be destroyed in Sovngarde?

Here is the actual prophecy:

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world

When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped

When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles

When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls

When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding

The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.

Also Alduin isn't only killable when in Sovngarde, the reason why the Dovahkiin needed to kill him there was because that he was basically hidng their and rebuilding his strength, this wuote basically sums it up.

"There he devours the souls of the heroic dead to feed his power. You must find his portal to Sovngarde before he returns, stronger than ever."

-Esbern

The Dovahkiin just needed to quickly kill Alduin before he could replenish himself.

Also take note that many people say the Dovahkiin will return to Sovngarde.

"I'll look for you, friend, when at last you return to Shor's hall. The honor will be ours when you rejoin the ranks of Sovngarde."

-Hakon One-Eye

"When you have completed your count of days, I may welcome you again, with glad friendship, and bid you join the blessed feasting."

-Tsun