Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-24.242.43.77-20130323013330/@comment-7153552-20130517172605

1) In every game you start out as a prisoner, and the choice of leaders wouldn't be between Tullius and Ulfric. They would "dethrone" Ulfric and put a new Jarl in place of him. Whoever wins (I say it that way because it's all about how you play the game) the war isn't inheirently part of cannon. The main quest is about the Dragonborn and his/her quest to defeat the World Eater, in the next installment the most you'll likely see about the war is that it was a time of civil unrest. I imagine you won't even read about a true winner - unless it's from a perspective of ech side writing their own books and them being out in the world to read. Chapter six of the Elder Scrolls will not be ultimately affected by the civil war, just in the way that Skyrim wasn't affected the events of Knights of the Nine, Shivering Isles, or any of the other side-quests and faction events of the game. ''As for your edit, Tullius isn't a leader of Skyrim, the choices are technically between the woman in Solitude (I forget her name at the moment) and Ulfric. So Tullius doesn't have to understand the Nords, he just has to win a civil war so the Empire can maintain order and the Jarl (or Jarlessa) can rule with the voice of the Empire in Skyrim.''

2)  While the faction itself will be cannon, the Dawnguard and the Vampire family from the DLC will not have a clear 'winner'.  The events of the Nine expansion can be construed as fact whether you played through it or not because it had a singular and linier outcome.  That being said, factions quests do not have that luxury because they sometimes alter courses of events for other factions or even major players in the main quest or overall setting of the game (i.e.: the Telvanni from the Mages Guild quest back in Morrowind or the death of Titus Medes in the Dark Brotherhood of Skyrim).  But yes, the reformation of the Dawnguard will most likely make an appearance in books and lore, but it may not be part of any faction.  A lot can happen between here and there, and they may be busy doing things in Skyrim.  As for the Vigilents, I still see them walking around in pairs even after completing the questline, so this must mean they are broken and not defeated. It was just their main hall you see getting destroyed, not the entire order.

3)  The Blades weren't the "protectors" of the Dragonborn.  They were dragon hunters, and worked with the Dragonborn.  What you're thinking of is their last gig as the protectors of the Emperor, who was of Dragonblood, but was not Dragonborn.  However, I do agree that they have a bigger role to play down the road.  The Blades have been in every game's main quest, so I hope that continues.  The order is one that intrigues me and I see much potential for great things in.

4)  I know I said it before, but it's a new point so I have to make it again.  The civil war is not cannon.  None of the events of any side-quests or faction quests cannot be considered solid lore for the major story of the next chapter.  That being said, the Septim Empire has been dead for a long time, ever since Martin sacrificed himself.  Titus the first was just the biggest and baddest vying for power and so he was able to gain control.  That being said, I don't disagree that the government will be going through some major changes here soon, I just don't think it'll be what everyone thinks.  If the games were what everyone wanted then nobody would end up playing them beause they'd already know what was happening.  Bethesda does a great job at not doing the norm and keeping everyone guessing.  Don't ruin that, folks.

5)  The Mages Guild has lost all credibility.  After the events of the Oblivion Crisis the people needed someone to blame.  They chose the Mages Guild because it seemed easy enough and logical since they dealt in magic and all that.  The Fighter's Guild had their run-in with the start-up guild (I can't think of their name, but in Oblivion they were using a Hist tree to gain strength and power).  Expect to see a lot of changes, but I don't know if we'll see the Mages Guild at all, they may be in the same boad the Dark Brotherhood was in for Skyrim.  Who knows?

6)  As for your final plea, making a game that will cater to the masses is what sells games.  If the game didn't have playability and replayability and potential for more turmoil in expacs then it wouldn't sell and they'd lose money on overhead alone.  They have to do a little catering from time to time.  However, Bethesda and Zenimax have never made a bad game.  They always deliver, and the numbers show it.  Would I like something darker and more tumultuous? Absolutley, I would.  Would I prefer something that challenges the borders of what gameplay can be to extremes that have never been seen before?  You bet your ass, I would.  The problem becomes that they can only push so far based on so many factors that it can't all happen at once for everyone in a single game.  Asking them to stop catering to the masses and to cater to you is selfish and foolish.  Unless you're willing to pay for overhead plus profit to buy the game from them and be other only person to have ever played it. Then you can do whatever you want, I suppose.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying any of this piss you off, or anyone else for that matter. I'm saying all of this as an objective gamer and game reviewer, I'm saying this as someone who games with people in the game development industry, I'm saying this as a true-blue Bethesda fan. I'm saying all of this as someone who has watched far too many games fall victim to the E-Sport mindset and the major publishers killing the spirit of what they were (e.g.: Halo, World of Warcraft, Fable). So understand, I want some of the same thigns you do, but I want more for Bethesda to keep up what they've been doing and staying true to who they are as a company. And if you want dark, check out their new horror-survival game coming out.