User talk:Busiao No Laughs/Archive 2

I do not welcome you here. What goes on in the Forums stays at the forum. Busiao No Laughs (talk) 10:42, July 16, 2017 (UTC)

I need to make a point that Jauffre the Blademaster, I find you exceedingly annoying to talk to and I'm sure you don't like to talk to me either. So stop talking to me. It'll do you and me more good.Busiao No Laughs (talk) 21:39, December 23, 2017 (UTC)

Dragonborn Emperor
Hey Busaio,

I wanted to stop by to ask you to please try not to be as aggressive with your thread messages, mainly Thread:250125. I'm not inclined to look to see how it started, nor does it matter. Both you and Jauffre should take the time to be more respectful towards each other, and have a friendly discussion rather than a hostile one. Making statements such as "Learn this little baby, boy, young man, man" does not help. Even with the messages Jauffre sent, it helps to try to keep a level head. You guys are more than welcome to continue the discussion, just please keep it more civil; if the problems continue, try to just avoid contacting each other. If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, please feel free to message me back. – The Crusader of Truth (talk – chat) 04:37, December 24, 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't want to continue the conversation with him. In fact, I don't mind continuing that discussion or any other discussions with anyone except him. The reason being through 2 encounters with him, I know for a fact that he will harass people excessively in order to force his vast knowledge of the Elder Scrolls story, plot and details together with his own interpretation upon other people and attempts to defile other peoples' rights to have their own opinions unless it is according to his opinion or is acceptable to him.


 * In short, he is trying to defile other people's rights to have an opinion, will attempt to use verbal insults to feel superior and make other people feel small. Personally I see this as a Jauffre's bullshit and I will have none of it. This is why I told him to leave me alone which he refuses to do so as expected. Busiao No Laughs (talk) 07:59, December 24, 2017 (UTC)

Ulfric Stormcloak
Since I don't want another edit war, nor a page lock, I'm going to point out my sources, and await your response.

So, let's start.

The Markarth Incident ended in 4E 176 with Ulfric Stormcloak being imprisoned. "Yes, from 4E 174-176, the Forsworn did in fact rule over the Reach as an independent kingdom from Skyrim. Yes, this was accomplished while the Empire was beset by Aldmeri Dominion forces and could not send the Legion to re-establish order. And yes, Ulfric Stormcloak did quell the rebellion without Imperial assistance." -The Bear of Markarth

"When the Empire lost the Reach during the Great War, we became desperate. We promised a group of Nord militia free worship in exchange for their help retaking the Hold. Then the Elves found out about it. We were forced to arrest all of them. Ulfric Stormcloak, their leader, used the whole thing as proof that the Empire had abandoned Skyrim. The Rebels called it "The Markarth Incident." It was the founding day for the Stormcloaks, and where this war really started." -Igmund

Now please, explain why on earth you keep stating the war broke out after Torygg died, while it was already ongoing years prior? Even if we were to say it didn't start at the Markarth Incident, there are two records of skirmishes between the Imperials and Stormcloaks years before 4E 201.

"I was wounded in a skirmish up near Windhelm. This was years ago, mind you. Now, maybe I don't pick up a blade in Ulfric's name no more, but I still hold with his ideals. Skyrim is Nord land, and we ought to rule it. We don't need no help from the Empire on that count." -Solaf

"Lilija joined the Stormcloaks many years ago, when the first of the skirmishes broke out across Skyrim." -Vulwulf Snow-Shod

Now please, provide evidence that the war started in 4E 201, because the only evidence we have no states it broke out earlier. The wiki is meant to state as many facts as possible, and what you wrote is unsourced, therefor, unable to be a fact. Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 20:40, January 10, 2018 (UTC)


 * Do you understand english, I do not welcome you here, get the hell out of... oh still stuck in the insignificant and stupid past? Bah I'll entertain you for a tiny bit.


 * Simple: The evidences are there, all over Solitude. You have once again deliberately choose to become blind to it. In some people's perspective the civil war may very well start after the Markarth Incident where Ulfric became disillusioned with the Empire.


 * If the Civil War had broke out before Torygg was killed, it will be hard to see someone like Sybille Stentor lowering her guard to the point where she says "We thought he was here to ask Torygg to declare independence"


 * Sybille Stentor also said "No" when you ask her if the War started when Istlod died?


 * Your statement from Snow-Shod family, none of them specify exact timing. But Vulwulf says when the first skirmishes broke out across Skyrim. Not the war.


 * Asgeir Snow-Shod says: It was my sister Lilija. We RECENTLY heard she'd been killed. Proves it wasn't going on for years. Its something recent.


 * Nura Snow-Shod, the mother narrows down the timing by stating "She died out there, only having tended to the wounded for a few months.


 * Ulfric founded the Stormcloak militia as a private army supposedly after Markarth Incident or around that time. That doesn't mean the civil war started then. I believe that line on Ulfric's portfolio is to talk about the Civil War and not his popularity. Do not mistaken the earlier preparations as actual fighting. Ulfric can start recruiting supporters into his private army 10, 20 years ago I don't care. The war only broke out after he committed treason by murdering his King.


 * Now get lost I do not welcome you here.Busiao No Laughs (talk) 22:06, January 10, 2018 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter if you don't welcome me here, you're editing articles without sources in contradiction with the sources we have. Either you put up a source supporting your claim or you leave it the way it was before.
 * There is no evidence, nowhere in Solitude, stating the war started after Torygg's death. The Moot met after the Skyrim civil war had already started, Ulfric made his intention of independence clear there, so of course they thought he was there to declare independence when he came to Solitude. Istlod also clearly died before the Markarth Incident took place.


 * When the first skirmishes between the Imperials and Stormcloaks broke out, battles between two factions; war.
 * Them recently hearing that she died does not mean that she didn't fight years prior... you know how many people only heard their loved ones died in WW2 years after the war had already ended? Many. Hundreds, thousands, that doesn't mean that the war was still ongoing after WW2 ended.
 * Nura died having tended to the wounded only a few months after joining the Stormcloaks years ago when the first skirmishes broke out. That's the lore we have on her.
 * The war broke out when his forces started fighting against Imperial forces.
 * Provide direct sources, it's literally part of the editing policy on the wiki.
 * Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 22:32, January 10, 2018 (UTC)


 * PS: It's Lilija who died not Nura


 * They did not say when the civil war broke out, they say she died a few months ago the fact that Ulfric can walk into Solitude and challenge Torygg to a duel is indication that they were not in state of war or it wouldn't have been so easy to meet with the supreme ruler of a country even if you are a Jarl. Not to mention if it's the King of two opposing factions meeting, they wouldn't have met in the manner described during Ulfric's visit to Solitude which ends with Torygg's death.


 * Whether Istlod died before or after Markarth Incident means very little because Moot m:ade Torygg the High King and Ulfric was still making lip service about declaring independence at that time.


 * Asgeir Snow-Shod states recently and you still insists years ago. My patience has worn off. If you have any self-respect. Bugger off.Busiao No Laughs (talk) 23:38, January 10, 2018 (UTC)


 * Do you mind not editing my comments? Thank you.


 * To continue. Vulwulf said Lilja joined the Stormcloaks many years ago when the first skirmishes broke out between the Legion and Stormcloaks. After she joined, she only aided the Stormcloaks for a few months before being killed, news of which only arrived years later; in 4E 201.


 * As for Ulfric; not quite. Ulfric was a Jarl, more than that, a greatly respected Jarl. The Civil War had also not yet fully escalated, a few minor skirmishes aside. Torygg respected Ulfric, Ulfric asked for an audience, so Torygg let Ulfric in, only to be killed. Torygg thought Ulfric would ask him to declare independence, which he might have done had Ulfric asked, which also explains why Ulfric was allowed into Solitude without a hitch.


 * Asgeir says news of her death only arrived recently, not that she died recently.
 * If you have any self-respect, stop vandalizing the wiki.
 * Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 23:47, January 10, 2018 (UTC)


 * This is not vandalism: please do not misconstrue it as such. Please work out your disagreement cordially on this page or on the article's talk page rather than immediately reverting each other's edits. —Atvelonis (talk) 00:29, January 11, 2018 (UTC)


 * Atvelonis, I am not misconstruing anything as vandalism. I am just outright telling people I don't welcome anyone here even if you are a moderator, more than 2 posts is pushing my limits. This guy Bladewhiny Jauffre is pushing beyond my limits.


 * Civil War had not fully escalated... Do you know what you're talking about? If they were in a state of war, respected or not, that is not how audience between two opposing factions in war works! There is so many things wrong with your thinking that I don't even want to start on helping you straight things out.


 * I did not change anything in your comments Bladewhiny Jauffre. I only pull your one paragraph up by 1 line because I don't see the reason why you need to hit enter twice for that paragraph.


 * Vandalising lol. Bladewhiny Jauffre, a 3 words that is as excessive as your words trying to hint that Ulfric is unpopular. If you are going to talk about the Civil War talk about it. People can form their own opinion and you should take your filthy hands off as much as possible and not attempt to rape them  and attempt to manipulate the directions of other people's opinion on the matter.


 * Vulwulf... Snow-Shods again?


 * Vulwulf said Lilija joined the Stormcloaks many years ago and she died shortly after the fighting began.


 * Asgeir says he got the news of his sister's death recently.


 * Nura says she died months after tending to the wounded.


 * Combining the information Vulwulf, Nura and Asgeir revealed.


 * Lilija joined the Stormcloaks many years ago and was killed shortly after the fighting starts, the family received the news recently. With exception that Lilija was a nurse/healer who was killed shortly after the skirmishes starts, no reliable information were given to state that the Civil War has been going on for years.


 * This is the last warning. If you have any self-respect. You will respect my wish to be left alone. Any further attempts to harass me will be treated as an attempt to deprive me of my Rights to have free will to do what I want which you don't have the right to do so.


 * You are also the one who constantly implying I am stupid, I am full of bullshit and tries to tell me what to do with implying I should go to the Fanfiction wiki which is attempting to deprive my right to do what I want.


 * Go away. Leave me alone, stop coming to harass me. Busiao No Laughs (talk) 01:27, January 11, 2018 (UTC)

(←) I was referring to Jauffre's comment: "If you have any self-respect, stop vandalizing the wiki," not anything you said. Regardless, talk pages exist purely so that users may be contacted about things that require their attention. In Jauffre's case, he intends to work out an agreement between the two of you. This is a standard practice on all wikis.

In my case, I am simply informing the two of you not to engage in an edit war on that article. Instead, you are required by policy to reach a conclusion about what content should be present on it via a consensus. Whether or not you "welcome" me is irrelevant in this situation: one of the duties of an administrator is to mediate disagreements such as this one.

If you wish to move the discussion to the article's talk page, I expect Jauffre to respect that, and thus to not make additional replies on this thread. Content disputes are more appropriate in that namespace anyway, where they can be quickly referenced by editors in the future. —Atvelonis (talk) 03:56, January 11, 2018 (UTC)

I think I did not convey my message properly Atvelonis. When you are performing your duty, what my personal preference is (In this case to be left alone) doesn't matter. I used seemingly a strong word such as "Even Moderators" is in event that even a Moderator comes and harass me the way Jauffre was doing, I will tell him to go away too.

In regards to the matter of the edit in Ulfric Stormcloak's page, always get a neutral party to be the judge or it will not end. You can be the neutral party and be the judge to put an end to Jauffre's loss of inner balance. You can see all his pieces above. I will summarize my point. A character's portfolio should be sololy information. Vague statements like "He only gained support after killing Torygg" is misleading and will lead to misguiding those new, unfamiliar with the lore. I have lack of better words to describe it other than: Manipulation of the direction the person's opinion is forming.

My point is that statement should either be completely omitted or it should be stated that there are various characters in the game such as Hadvar who says that he didn't have much support until he kills Torygg. But that statement is extremely silly because in certain aspect it implies Torygg was so unpopular and bad as a High King that a dude who didn't have enough support to start a Civil War got substantial support to rebel after killing the dude. I can guarantee 99% of those who believed and said those lines doesn't understand what they are talking about.

I can ask one simple question. So a large number of people hate Torygg so much that they will run to the defense and fight for the guy who kills him?

I will not elaborate on this, but this obsession Jauffre has and all those who has the same belief  can be summarized into a state of mind that is out of touch with their inner balance because they have become completely blind to the implications their words lead to. Busiao No Laughs (talk) 09:44, January 11, 2018 (UTC)

Since the old thread got closed due to it simply turning into another big argument (happened to me and bladdermaster jeff on another thread, though I dropped the convo before it got closed), I've decided to create my own little thread where hopefully we can get back to our less spiteful civil war discussion in peace. I'll leave you a link in case you wanted to join and pick up where we left of on the whole "Dragonborn as High King" thing.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:1002208

Thanks, I'll be off your page now.

LordOswin (talk) 06:24, January 30, 2018 (UTC)