Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-95.94.124.138-20130922100323/@comment-70.34.133.250-20140415210220

Dovahsebrom wrote:

OK, but then why does your quoted part say "all valliant NORDS can enter...". NORDS. Why say that race specifically and singularly? If your theory were correct, then it would read "all valliant WARRIORS can enter...", or something of the like. Why does it say Nords specifically though? Because it's their afterlife, that's why. Because it is Nordic belief. Nords as a race, are known to have a mind-set, a belief that when they die, if they are valiant enough, they will go to a firmament (in which is Sovngarde). Have you ever wondered why there are variants of existing gods (Lorkhan --> Shor)? We know they are actual gods (everything about them is true), and we know they are somehow the same god (Shor = Sheor? = Shezarr?). So how do these gods, who are derivatives of the same god, remain so seperate from each other; how can they be almost opposites?

The reason is because belief is very powerful in TES. The Nordic religion, is just like religions made in real life, they are made up by people. What I mean by this is that the Nordic religion isn't based around the Nordic Gods, the Nordic Gods were created from the Nordic religion. Shor is the result of Nords formulating their own ideals on what Lorkhan, their tutelary deity, should be. Sovngarde, like Shor, is the result of Nords believing "this is how heaven should be".

So let me ask you this? If what created Sovngarde was Nordic belief, then what is stopping another person from another race from believing the same thing? The reason why it is always said that Sovngarde is the firmament for Nords is because it was formulated from the belief of Nords.

LOL Fair? Since when is life, or afterlife for that matter, fair? Where is THAT rule written? In fact, in the ES 'verse, there's many an "unfair" divine entity, no? Either way, yes, it sure is fair if he goes to the Breton afterlife. Besides, if you truly live a Nordic lifestyle, and worship their gods, then you ARE a Nord basically anyway. That said, we actually don't know about the EW's lifestyle in that capacity. Maybe he talks about Sovngarde because that's all he ever hears about because he's in Skyrim. He could simply be completely ignorant to religions in general. 'LOL Fair? Since when is life, or afterlife for that matter, fair?'

In the manner that a good Christian goes to heaven.

Saying only Nords go to Sovngarde is like saying only White people are allowed into heaven

goes to the Breton afterlife.

There is no known Breton afterlife, they are recycled through the Dream-sleeve to make into new souls. Sovngarde is atypical.

Besides, if you truly live a Nordic lifestyle, and worship their gods, then you ARE a Nord basically anyway.

Exactly my point.

That said, we actually don't know about the EW's lifestyle in that capacity

EW?

Well I only meant the DB is prophecised to kill Alduin. I didn't mean IT says he has to kill him in Sonvgarde, but that's how it sounds. My bad. No, that part you learn elsewhere. Not in the prophecy, and you're wrong about Alduin being able to be killed outside of Sovngarde. Alduin himself says, "I cannot be killed here by you you or anyone" after his FISRT defeat on the Throat of the World, in Nirn. I know I toolk his health to zero there, and he didn't die lol. In Skyrim he's either in Nirn, or in Sovngarde recharging the battery there. That's what he does. He can't be killed in Nirn by anyone, so the only other option here is Sovngarde. So Sovngarde IS the only place he can be killed. It's a simple deduction based on all the info we have on the sunject. If you still think not, then where else CAN he be killed that we KNOW of? In terms of the DB returning upon his death, well he SAVED the place from Alduin. That just may warrant an exception to the rule. Permaybehaps I'm thinkin' lol. Espcecially since he's already been there anyway. They owe ya big time, but I believe I already made that point earlier though. Do you know what Alduin says in Sovngarde

"Zu'u unslaad! zu'u nis oblaan!"  ("I am immortal, I cannot die!")

...And then he died

Alduin saying he cannot be killed is based out of his own arrogance. There's a reason why he flees from you at the Throat of the World. Your first & second points go hand-in-hand, so I'll answer those together. If "exactly your point" is the same as mine: If you live a total Nordic lifestyle/worship their gods, then you ARE a Nord, then that still means only Nords get in. As such, I'm not sure why you even disagree with that it's the NORDIC heaven specifically. In terms of your Christian comparison, this ain't Christianity, and nobody actually knows who does/doesn't get into heaven cause nobody's lived to tell us the tale. You're making assumptions about a place you literally know nothing about. I don't either mind you, but I'm not the one that went there with my point. I don't presume to know who does/doesn't get in & why/why not. It's unwise to do so. We're talking about TES 'verse here anyway, and many divine beings in the lore are most certainly UNfair. Is it FAIR what Azura did to ALL the Chimer people because of the actions of three asshats? No, it isn't. Case & point.

Bretons souls are recycled. So in other words, Breton souls are REBORN. They don't go to ANY heaven. So how can they end up in Sovngarde then? I already said a couple posts ago that different cultures have different afterlife beliefs, and that's why they don't all go to Sovngarde. You just made the case & point for me with that one. Thanks lol! :)

If Alduin is speaking out of arrogance there in your quote, and he CAN be killed in Nirn, then why were you unable to do so on top of the Throat of the World like I already pointed out?