Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-27007772-20140611204941/@comment-10207438-20150508042938

College Mage: Ferris wrote:

Well Hammerfell isnt known for helping anyone other than themselves for the most part.. but that aside, Skyrim wouldnt let any of the Alik'r within city limites, i doubt they'd be open to the idea of working them them. The same could be said of Morrowind, they dont have the best relations, and I don't imagine that it would improve with Ulfric in charge. Ulfric isnt going to ask Morrowind for aid, not saying he himself is racist like everyone else tends to, but he doesn't strike me as the type to strategically call to them for help... and if the Thalmor get to morrowind first, theres absolutely no way (even with Hammerfell's help) to win in a war fighting at multiple fronts like that. High Rock is still with the Empire isnt it? (honestly can't remember) So they couldnt ask them for aid either, they'd be pretty much alone in that fight.

The only reason Hammerfell isnt still part of the Empire is because the Empire was essentially trying to do damage control, they signed a treaty and Hammerfell refused to listen to the terms, so rather than upset the "relative peace" they just had to say "screw it, they're not with the empire anymore!" Once the Empire gets back up and ready to fight, who's to say they wouldnt ask Hammerfell for help? (I doubt Hammerfell would help, having been scourned.. but perhaps if the right terms are presented to them they could be persuaded).

At least with Skyrim still part of the Empire, the Thalmor have to spread out over larger territories. Weakened as they are now, they can't maintain control over THAT much territory, annexing Skyrim makes it easier for them to invade. United we stand! Divided we fall!

You have probably one of the best points I've read tho, Skyrim only having to essentially sit and wait. Provided something (like rebuilding their numbers) keeps them busy... but With the white-gold concordant, Cyrodill is obligated to let them invide using Cyrodill as a jumping off point. They can't say "no" that's a breach of the treaty. They arent sending any aid to Hammerfell after it declared independance, why wouldn't they allow the AD to use their border to attack Skyrim? As a side note, Skyrim needs supply lines to stay open, as the land isnt the best for farming and such. An independant Skyrim could face an embargo on all trade with the Empire entirely.

Cyrodill has no reason to come to the aid of Skyrim if it's not part of the Empire, and Hammerfell has no reason to lose men defending a land they're hardly even allowed into. Hammerfell may warn Skyrim, but they wont send ships to intercept. Skyrim on its own has the Cyrodil border, High Rock, and the Northern border (tho admittedly with all the ship wrecks the nothern border might be fine) to defend. If the AD got Morrowind involved, theres absolutely no way they could defend themselves. At least General Tulius mentiones preparing to fight the AD again, which could also mean the other generals know that's the next step, but can't openly discuss it.

To me, it all points to "Side with the Empire", more men, more supplies, more strategic advantages. Stormcloak or Empire, we all hate the Thalmor, lets just fight them together. The alik'r are permitted within cities, just not those alik'r in that particular city, seeing as they had caused enough trouble for one of their members to get himself arrested.

The relations between skyrim and morrowind address actually pretty great compared to their history; also, unlike you I do believe their relations will improve, including the relations with the Dunmer within skyrim(once the civil war is ended it will cause most of the diverted war funds to help rebuild skyrim)

Morrowind will most likely not join with the altmer, but even if they did they wouldn't have the numbers to fight a war so close to home, doing so would pretty much invite the argonians to attack them.

While highrock is a part of the empire they would be cut off from the rest of the empire (cyrodiil) and it would be unlikely that skyrim or hammerfell would permit them to trade with cyrodill freely, it would be in their best interest to leave cyrodill to themselves and trade with their neighbors.

Yeah if the right terms are presented hammerfell would rejoin the empire, but hell, if the right terms are presented hammerfell could just as easily join the Aldmeri Dominion, you can't say with "if things go perfectly" when it comes to something as unlikely as hammerfell rejoining the empire.

The thalmor annexing skyrim? There's no reason to assume they could. If you mean preventing skyrim from seceding then yes they have more territory to oversee, but that would also stop them from crippling skyrim from within, yes it could allow them to increase pressure on the remaining members of the empire, but that would only increase chances for them to revolt against the Dominion.

As for permitting an army through cyrodill, I don't think you have the right idea of what a peace treaty is, in no way would it be a part of a peace treaty for one country to just permit their enemies to march an army right through them, that would just be stupid, and as said above it would be extremely easy for cyrodill to attack then from the rear and beginning the next great war in earnest. Plus I haven't read anything that says the white gold concordat prevents the empire from refusing demands from the Dominion, you're going to have to bring proof for something as books a statement as that.

As for the embargo, I said it before and I'll say it again, skyrim can just as easily place an embargo on highrock and cyrodill, unlike the empire though skyrim can still trade with hammerfell and morrowind, and they can set up a blockade with the help of hammerfell to prevent highrock and cyrodill to trade by land. Doing so would likely give highrock good enough reason to leave the empire and negotiate trade with hammerfell and skyrim.

Don't see it as coming to aid skyrim, see it as taking the opportunity to take out the real threat, if the Aldmeri Dominion is busy fighting skyrim they will leave themselves wide open for an attack on their border territories. And Ulfric, Galmar, Stormcloak officers, and even Stormcloak foot soldiers openly talk about the fact that they're planning to fight the Aldmeri Dominion once skyrim is stabilized.

You're going with the worst case scenario against an independent skyrim, where the empire pretty much joins the Aldmeri Dominion in destroying skyrim, somehow convincing morrowind to join them, and hammerfell just watching as their only potential ally is destroyed. If that's the case you're trying to make I would still choose it, better to die fighting the Dominion than be a part of an empire that would join them in destroying your ex-members who left you because of the potential that the empire would end up exactly the way you say they will.