Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-62.255.98.169-20130504143516/@comment-66.183.230.147-20140324091853

While I agree with the general concept of the above post, I'd have to disagree with the concept that the Dwemer couldn't both be "free thinking" relative to the other races of Tamriel and also have slaves.

Both the Greeks and Republic Era Romans were generally considered to be "free thinking" to a degree that would not be matched again until the Age of Enlightenment, and influenced many aspects of Western civilization long after their respective civilizations had fallen from glory. Both civilizations were more than happy to embrace slavery. Really, most western societies were fine with slavery until the Industrial Revolution, when it became cheaper to pay large, unskilled, temporary workforces than to continually support slaves in a rapidly-changing economy.

It could certainly be argued that the Dwemer wouldn't take slaves based on the fact that their economy would likely not have benefitted from it (given that they were obviously quite prosperous at the time of their disappearance, which corresponds with their involvement with the Snow Elves), and because the complete lack of any areas in Dwemer cities I've been able to find that appear to be dedicated to some kind of agriculture would seem to indicated that food was likely something they didn't have in abundance. This would also seem to mean that even if Snow Elves became Falmer because they were forced to eat poisonous mushrooms by the Dwarves, that particular bit of cruelty could arguably have been out of necessity more than spite.

Now, having read a year's worth of posts, here's some massive thread necromancy:

In terms of Falmar becoming Snow Elves, it would seem very, very unlikely. As stated many times above, the lack of visual senses is a huge detriment. While they are obviously capable marksmen, this can be chocked down to some kind of sonar ability that has been developed in response to their living conditions, not to mention the simple need to make them a realistic threat. Besides that, it would seem that any kind of large scale industry is pretty much impossible (how do you mine successfully when you can't tell what sort of ore you're digging up, or farm on a large scale when your sense are limited to at most a few hundred yards above ground?), as with any written language or advanced mathematics. While their current level of technology can support small enclaves here and there, it's not sufficient to support actual cities, and it is likely about as far as their biology will allow them to advance. While they could benefit greatly from slaves, slave lifespans would be pretty short, and having too many could easily result in disaster should a revolt occure. The Falmar seem to be incapable of evolving past their blindness, too: It is REMARKABLY well lit in most of the caves they live in, and it would seem they could eat the Charus rather than having to live off blindness inducing mushrooms now. They seem to have gotten to the point of specialization that does not easily allow a return to anything close to their original state. Barring divine intervention, they are stuck where they are for the foreseeable future, and have been for a long, long time.

In terms of taking Skyrim or Tamriel, once again, unlikely because of the eyes. Again, it's one thing to aim a bow while inside an environment that they have evolved to specialize in, it's another thing to construct a catapult without being able to see, and then manage to aim it with any accuracy at something hundreds of yards away, without math, through the din of battle. While the concept of mining into cities is a good one, the Falmar don't seem to be capable of it, given the lack of ability to calculate where tunnels will come out, the lack of ability to forge tools to work the stone, etc.

I think it's possible that they do have the numbers for it. While they are only mentioned in Skyrim lore, and are not likely capable of mining, Tamriel is FULL of cave systems, and it seems quite plausible that some of them span great lengths of the continent - this is the case with a few caves in the real world. While their lifestyle may be incapable of supporting large numbers in one area, given how much more cavernous the Eldar Scrolls universe is than reality, it's very likely that the subterranean landscape is something of a continent of it's own, and there is plenty of space. It's quite possible that there are hundreds of thousands of Falmar living, moving, and settling in natural cave systems all across the world, not to mention in the deeper corners of the dusty ruins that seem to be littered all over Tamriel.

In terms of VS Nords. One on one, in a cave, it's likely your average Falmer would beat your average Nord. Falmer are not really that great of an evolutionary design, likely because of the evolution's forced nature. Blindness is a huge hindrance in any environment, and subterranean living is conductive to small stature. Even in their own element, it's pretty arguable that the Falmer are not really apex predators, and rely mostly on being more intelligent than other underground creatures to survive. Speaking in strict evolutionary terms, a Charus is a far better design - they are well suited to move through tunnels, naturally armoured and armed, and have decent eyesight as well as other senses. The major advantage a Falmar would have over a Nord, even in his own environment, would lay more with the Nord being completely out of his element than any physical ability. In addition to this, while your average Nord may have to deal with the cold and reasonably hard surface life, it's likely your average barkeep or orphanage owner has not had a whole lot of combat or even survival experience. In contrast to this, even the Falmar's version of a shepherd will have spent it's whole life having to survive and eke out an existence as a flawed creature in a very dangerous and unforgiving environment. Nothing pleasant lives underground in Tamriel, and being a bit smarter only goes so far.

Above ground, with trained warriors, the Nord would win. It's generally accepted than even the slowest human is at least a bit smarter than a smart Falmar, and intelligence is pretty unimportant when someone is within smelling distance and trying to club your skull in. Nords are bigger, can see, and have a far better level of technology. One on one, especially in broad daylight, the big guy with the steel battle axe will usually beat the little blind dude with a shirt on. This also contributes to why they would win any conflict on a large scale. While the Falmar could do reasonably well in nighttime raids on cities like Markarth, the humans of Skyrim could simply collapse any entrance tunnels. Any actual surface actions would be limited to being in the field rather than sieges, and while farms and the countryside would suffer until all the cave entrances could be found, any surface camps or shallow bases could easily be dealt with during the daytime.

Magic evens this out somewhat, but both sides would realistically have equal access to it. There may be hundreds of thousands of Falmar underneath the ground, but there is certainly hundreds of thousands of humans above ground. While the factions in Skyrim are at odds right now, it seems likely that everyone can agree a screwed up home is better than one full of monsters, and I suspect neighbouring provinces would be quick to lend support lest the issue spread to their borders. This would mean a lot of well armed, well trained warriors taking on a horde of what amounts to blind goblins. Something that has never, ever worked out well for the horde in the history of fiction!

Even if the humans were pushed from Skyrim, it seems unlikely the Falmer would really know what to do with their new homes. Given that there are giant f***ing cats, and dragons, and trolls, etc., all of which are excellent surface apex predators running around everywhere, it seems unlikely any settlement attempts would meet with much success, and everyone would have to return underground, or remain safely walled into cities, where they would likely continue to stagnate or be wiped out whenever the humans came back.

There we go, my theoretical book on Falmar ability and evolution.