Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-24999589-20140604181541/@comment-13446185-20140628193241

174.49.250.27 wrote: Hjalti is in fact Tiber Septim, and Zurin Arctus was killed before the death of Tiber Septim, and Wulf was simply a representation of him on the planes of Nirn, much like with Zenithar and Mara. While that does technically make Wulf Talos, Wulf was created by Talos to be his vessel on Nirn. Though Wulf could in fact be the chosen spirit of a man Tiber Septim once betrayed, if you buy into The Arcturian Heresy. Tiber Septim is the two-headed King, when Talos Stormcrown met Zurin Arctus (both of them Shezarrines) they recreated the Enantiomorph and created a new being, Tiber Septim. (if you don't know what that means, think of the creation of Aurbis. Anu and Padomay birthed their own souls, Anuiel and Sithis, which morphed togethor to form a new entity, the Aurbis.)

The problem with that is The Underking, the Undead form of either Zurin Arctus, Ysmir Wulfharth, or the combined souls of both. Zurin Arctus is not in fact a part of Talos, since his soul was trapped in his body due to the Mentella being lost and sent into another plane of existance. Because of that, Zurin's soul could not possibly be both alive on Nirn as the Underking-until the destruction of the Mantella-and then Talos at the same time. The Underking is another example of something new. The one we see in Daggerfall was created through a way similar to how Tiber Septim was created, this time with Zurin and Wulfharth. I also hope you realize that Talos didn't actually become a god until after the Warp in the West (when the Mantella was reunited with the Underking).

On a side note, some things imply that Tiber Septim may have actually been part of the Underking also, he could have very well been proto-talos. As for Ysmir, the Arcturian Heresy stated that he was the Underking all along, and while Zurin was Tiber's loyal battlemage, Ysmir constantly urged Tiber Septim to go to war with Morrowind, but he refused. Ysmir was then betrayed by Tiber Septim, who removed his soul and placed it in the Mantella, so again, even if Wulfharth and Wulf are one and the same, it is unlikely that they became Talos along with Tiber Septim, as they were alive many generations afterwards until the Mantella was destroyed. As I said, Talos wasn't a god until the Warp. Although the idea that Ysmir and Tiber Septim were the same person comes from the records that Ysmir worked in his name while he was alive, in order to make him seem like a more concerned ruler as he governed over the people. Although it is unlikely they were both the same person. I have not seen referenced to Zurin or Ysmir ever becoming a part of Talos, Wulf may have come from him, but was not somehow fused with other men to become one god. The only way I could see someone thinking of that, was the idea of Wulf being his astral projection, and Wulf and Zurin both being debated to be the Underking. Wulfharth plays into the Talos Oversoul through Talos the mortal, who is the something new fromed from the Wulfharth-Hjalti Enantiomorph, haven't you ever wondered why they say Talos is from Atmora? Wulfharth is why.

Also as I said before, Wulfharth is part of the Underking. Meanwhile, as for his ancestry, it is blatantly stated many times in Skyrim that he is in fact a Nord, and came from either Atmora or the small island kingdom of Alcaire, though neither contradict his ancestry of being Nord. His name was originally Hjalti Early-Beard, but during a battle where he used the Thu'um to bring a stormcloud that followed him wherever he went, he became known as Talos, or "Storm Crown" by the more indigenous Nords. The stormcloud was Wulfharth my friend... This is when Talos the mortal was born.

Also coming from Atmora would make you an Atmoran, not a Nord. It was only later on he became known as Tiber Septim, a mantle he took on once he had the Imperials under his control, and wanted to seem more Imperial-after all, he was the Emperor-and with that, things were set in motion. Talos possibly may have become a god due to his interaction with Lorkhan's Heart, or maybe simply from being the Dragonborn of Prophecy, as there was only one single Dragonborn meant to exist. Though, there were multiples in the lineage, Talos himself was the only one meant to use The Voice, or Thu'um. Others may have learned themselves, but he was the only one who could absorb Dragon Souls. So much wrong here.

As I've already said Tiber Septim is the Two-Headed King, he was formed when Talos and Zurin joined to create a new entity known as Tiber Septim.

Talos never once interacted with the Heart of Lorkhan, where you're getting that info, I have no idea. He was a Shezarrine though, they all were.

Wulfharth was a dragonborn also. Although the events of the Dragonborn DLC may bring this into question, much like in Morrwind, your character is the reincarnation of the Chimer hero, it is thought that since there is only one true Dragonborn, perhaps the Dragonborn you play may even be Talos' Avatar on Nirn. There is not only one true Dragonborn!

However I do believe that the Dovahkiin is Talos incarnate. Even if he wasn't a Nord-which he is-you can see Imperials plain as day in Sovngarde, All the people you see in Sovngarde are Nords...