The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot/Log December 2017


 * 21:19:03: Atvelonis: Okay so we should get started now
 * 21:19:15: The cheese lord of nirn: i concur
 * 21:19:40: The Supreme Argonian: ooh
 * 21:19:52: The Supreme Argonian: ok if I have time ill give my presentation thing
 * 21:19:57: Kora Stormblade: Cheese please stop and actually be serious here
 * 21:20:01: The Supreme Argonian: although itll probably get rejected
 * 21:20:07: The Supreme Argonian: yeah Cheese
 * 21:20:22: Aramithius: First topic?
 * 21:20:40: Nekyn Alb: (-)
 * 21:20:43: Atvelonis: So currently, we have a relatively stringent set of requirements for uploading images to the wiki
 * 21:20:44: The Crusader of Truth: template
 * 21:20:51: Atvelonis: These vary per article type and game
 * 21:21:12: Atvelonis: To mark images that do not meet these requirements, we typically add the template http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Template%3AImagequality to the file with a reason and game
 * 21:21:24: Atvelonis: This categorizes the file under (or subcat)
 * 21:21:48: Atvelonis: However, we also use http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Template:ImageImprove on the article itself, above the infobox
 * 21:22:16: Atvelonis: I'd like to suggest that we stop doing the latter because it's quite redundant and sees rather little usage
 * 21:22:31: Nekyn Alb: (+-)
 * 21:22:57: Aramithius: What's the functional difference between the two?
 * 21:23:00: The Crusader of Truth: Is it okay that I add that its slightly annoying to have to remove both
 * 21:23:08: Atvelonis: does not add a category
 * 21:23:14: Atvelonis: So it's less useful anyway
 * 21:23:21: Atvelonis: I think we should just stick to
 * 21:23:51: Nekyn Alb: I'm not sure, users might be less likely to upload new pictures
 * 21:23:55: Aramithius: So why did both ever happen? I'd guess there was a reason at some time
 * 21:24:13: Atvelonis: @Nekyn: the problem is that that type of person would not be familiar with our image uploading policies (TES:SEE), so their upload would also have to be tagged as low-quality
 * 21:24:27: Atvelonis: Which doesn't really help anything
 * 21:24:55: Atvelonis: If they're familiar enough with the wiki to be going through, though, I'd be reasonably confident that they know what they're supposed to upload
 * 21:25:09: Nekyn Alb: Add the policy in the template then
 * 21:25:15: Atvelonis: lol
 * 21:25:32: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: that would defeat the purpose of a template
 * 21:25:49: Atvelonis: The issue is that a new user wouldn't click on the policy anyway
 * 21:26:05: Atvelonis: We have this issue on /d constantly: people are linked the guidelines multiple times but never read them!
 * 21:26:16: The Crusader of Truth: like me
 * 21:26:45: Nekyn Alb: People who would edit are probably not the usual /d-kid
 * 21:26:47: Atvelonis: Ultimately I just feel that using two templates to mark images as low-quality is a waste of time: that's double the amount of work we need to do when tagging images, and doesn't really lead to a large number of high-quality files uploaded that I've seen
 * 21:27:02: Atvelonis: Well yes but the people who don't know what that category is don't know the policy
 * 21:27:21: Atvelonis: Even linking that cat/policy wouldn't do anything. They wouldn't read the policy. It has a very minimal gain for a lot of extra work on our end
 * 21:27:26: KINMUNE: Hello there, RhodiumOdi!
 * 21:27:27: Atvelonis: hi odi
 * 21:27:36: RhodiumOdi: Hey
 * 21:27:36: RenzXVI: I am late, cooking fried rice took longer than I thought.
 * 21:28:26: Atvelonis: I could remove all instances of with my bot so it wouldn't be much work to stop using it
 * 21:28:31: Atvelonis: Would take like 20 minutes
 * 21:28:38: Atvelonis: Probably less
 * 21:28:48: The cheese lord of nirn: question. if you do away with this and it becomes popular again, will it become in effect again?
 * 21:29:06: Atvelonis: Why would it become popular again? We would probably delete the template
 * 21:29:19: The cheese lord of nirn: ok
 * 21:29:19: The Crusader of Truth: Atv, are you sure that AWB can handle removing it?
 * 21:29:40: Atvelonis: I mean if a bunch of people complain that it was useful later on, I suppose we could re-add them but I think that's unlikely
 * 21:29:41: The Crusader of Truth: It does have a variable in it, I havent figured out how to add variables yet
 * 21:29:59: The Supreme Argonian: @Atv I left you a message on your talk page. If you think I should present it let me know on here, or you can present it yourself if you want to edit it quite significantly
 * 21:30:08: Atvelonis: @Crus: I can do it semi-automatically
 * 21:30:13: Atvelonis: Which is slightly annoying
 * 21:30:16: Atvelonis: But not so bad
 * 21:30:22: The Crusader of Truth: Eh, thats true
 * 21:30:30: Aramithius: I still don't get why there are two templates when one seems to do the job fine. Why was there two in the first place?
 * 21:30:36: The Crusader of Truth: I suppose I probably could help out too if its a lot
 * 21:30:53: Kora Stormblade: Maybe one for specific images themselves and one for them on articles idk
 * 21:31:10: Atvelonis: Yeah the idea is that one is on articles, and one is on the file itself
 * 21:31:13: Atvelonis: I think it's rather useless
 * 21:31:22: Atvelonis: The message gets across just fine with one
 * 21:31:29: Aramithius: Ah, ok. Understood.
 * 21:31:58: The Lusty Dovahkiin: back
 * 21:32:24: The Crusader of Truth: Ready to put it to a vote?
 * 21:32:28: The Crusader of Truth: Wb
 * 21:32:46: The Lusty Dovahkiin: ty
 * 21:32:55: Atvelonis: Sure. The premise of this vote is to remove all instances of on articles and simply rely on  on files for the purposes of low-quality image categorization.
 * 21:32:58: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:33:07: The cheese lord of nirn: (+)
 * 21:33:08: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: (+)
 * 21:33:09: Aramithius: (+)
 * 21:33:11: The Crusader of Truth: (+)
 * 21:33:12: The Supreme Argonian: eh it makes no sense to me anyway (=)
 * 21:33:16: The Lusty Dovahkiin:
 * 21:33:19: Atvelonis: 5-1-0
 * 21:33:19: The Lusty Dovahkiin: heck
 * 21:33:21: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: lol I was gonna as that Crus xD
 * 21:33:25: Atvelonis: (+) to support, lusty
 * 21:33:26: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 21:33:26: The Lusty Dovahkiin: I failed
 * 21:33:34: The Crusader of Truth: @Lusty Dovahkiin (+)
 * 21:33:36: The Cat Master: (=)
 * 21:33:45: Atvelonis: 6-2-0
 * 21:33:53: Atvelonis: or 7-2-0 with lusty's vote
 * 21:34:02: RhodiumOdi: (=)
 * 21:34:03: Atvelonis: hey qahn
 * 21:34:05: Atvelonis: 7-3-0
 * 21:34:10: RenzXVI: Replace with send nudes. (kidding).
 * 21:34:18: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: xD
 * 21:34:22: Nekyn Alb: (-)
 * 21:34:29: Atvelonis: 7-3-1
 * 21:34:30: Kora Stormblade: (-)
 * 21:34:37: Atvelonis: 7-3-2
 * 21:35:25: Atvelonis: Any other votes?
 * 21:35:36: RhodiumOdi: That's everyone here but Nathan
 * 21:35:42: Nekyn Alb: (-)
 * 21:35:46: RenzXVI: Nathan is a myth.
 * 21:35:51: RenzXVI: Nekyn voted twice.
 * 21:35:55: The Supreme Argonian: does anyone who doesn't vote get labelled as neutral?
 * 21:35:59: Nekyn Alb: I got haxx
 * 21:35:59: Atvelonis: No they just aren't counted
 * 21:36:02: The Supreme Argonian: okay
 * 21:36:13: Atvelonis: So if that's everyone, we can move onto the next topic
 * 21:36:18: RhodiumOdi: ChrisJThomas 2.0
 * 21:37:28: The Supreme Argonian: what?
 * 21:37:38: Nekyn Alb: This user is not available in your country.
 * 21:37:42: Atvelonis: There was a guy who stayed in the chat 24/7
 * 21:37:46: Atvelonis: For like six straight months
 * 21:37:50: The Supreme Argonian: how
 * 21:38:06: The Supreme Argonian: as in he kept it open 24/7
 * 21:38:06: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: oh yeh that guy
 * 21:38:10: Nekyn Alb: I kick everyone who stays in chat without leaving for 2 days lol
 * 21:38:14: The Supreme Argonian: oh
 * 21:38:14: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: nobody knows
 * 21:38:22: Qahnaarin1997: His internet is god-tier
 * 21:38:30: The Supreme Argonian: is the chat usually quite active?
 * 21:38:32: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: I think he died
 * 21:38:37: RenzXVI: Chat broke several times, he's still here.
 * 21:38:37: Qahnaarin1997: No
 * 21:38:38: The Supreme Argonian: I usually use KiK or Discord
 * 21:38:40: The Supreme Argonian: ih
 * 21:38:41: Nekyn Alb: Sitting right in the NASA HQ just to take up chat space
 * 21:38:43: The Supreme Argonian: oh*
 * 21:38:52: RhodiumOdi: Um... Next topic?
 * 21:38:55: The Supreme Argonian: what's the next topic?
 * 21:39:08: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: didn't you have one
 * 21:39:09: Nekyn Alb: Should dead chatusers get kicked
 * 21:39:09: Qahnaarin1997: Atvel, can I kcik Nathan?
 * 21:39:13: Qahnaarin1997: Please
 * 21:39:23: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: oh that's a topic?
 * 21:39:35: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: (+)
 * 21:39:35: The Crusader of Truth: Hes a UESP spy
 * 21:39:36: Atvelonis: no need to kick him
 * 21:39:51: The Supreme Argonian: Just out of curiosity: why is sockpuppetry considered to be so terrible?
 * 21:40:01: Atvelonis: Because people use it all the time to evade blocks
 * 21:40:07: The Crusader of Truth: It gets scary when its 3 am and me him and kinmune are in here
 * 21:40:09: Qahnaarin1997: It's a way to avoid a ban/block
 * 21:40:11: RenzXVI: WHat's the point in banning if sockpuppets are allowed?
 * 21:40:14: The Supreme Argonian: like, it's stupid and all, but everyone acts like it's some major transgression
 * 21:40:14: Atvelonis: This is why the only people who are allowed to use sockpuppet accounts are admins, for bots or whatever
 * 21:40:20: The Supreme Argonian: Oh
 * 21:40:28: Qahnaarin1997: Or Bronkiin
 * 21:40:33: The Supreme Argonian: But still, everyone makes such a big deal of it
 * 21:40:43: Qahnaarin1997: Because everyone knows Shockstorm = Bronkiin
 * 21:40:46: Atvelonis: Haha
 * 21:40:52: Atvelonis: Someone get Jauffre in here :P
 * 21:40:52: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: xD
 * 21:40:58: Qahnaarin1997: Lol
 * 21:41:08: The Supreme Argonian: anyway what's next topic?
 * 21:41:09: RhodiumOdi: Qahn = Sajuuk
 * 21:41:12: Qahnaarin1997: Damn
 * 21:41:15: Qahnaarin1997: I'm found out
 * 21:41:16: Atvelonis: @Supreme: as Renz said, allowing unfettered sockpuppet usage undermines the purpose of blocking users
 * 21:41:21: Qahnaarin1997: *Cheese its*
 * 21:41:23: The Supreme Argonian: true
 * 21:41:31: Atvelonis: Some wikis, like Fallout, technically allow you to use socks as long as you declare them
 * 21:41:36: The Supreme Argonian: ah
 * 21:41:47: Qahnaarin1997: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6JHaBVySTA
 * 21:41:50: KINMUNE: Zoidberg Woop Woop Woop!
 * 21:41:53: Atvelonis: As for the next topic, I don't have any others.
 * 21:42:02: The Supreme Argonian: I left mine on your talk
 * 21:42:10: RenzXVI: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Atvelonis?diff=2522386&oldid=2521041
 * 21:42:12: Qahnaarin1997: Woop woop woop! (V) (V)
 * 21:42:12: The Crusader of Truth: I have more of a question really if nobody else does
 * 21:42:15: The Supreme Argonian: wasn't sure whether it should be presented
 * 21:42:16: Atvelonis: Supreme, your topic isn't something we have the ability to implement, unless you mean you want every user to create an actual thread for that
 * 21:42:29: The Supreme Argonian: not so much the last bit
 * 21:42:38: RhodiumOdi: Hahaha Qahn
 * 21:42:39: The Crusader of Truth: Actually nevermind
 * 21:42:53: RenzXVI: The Supreme Argonian's request is a Wikia feature. :p
 * 21:42:57: The Supreme Argonian: But the base idea of substituting the talk page for the mobile users?
 * 21:42:59: The Supreme Argonian: Not really
 * 21:43:11: The Supreme Argonian: but it has OPTIONAL elements of that
 * 21:43:13: Atvelonis: It would be possible for us to allow users to create a thread of their own for anyone to message them on. Theoretically
 * 21:43:18: Atvelonis: That would not require anything from Wikia
 * 21:43:20: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: talk pages on /d sounds retarded
 * 21:43:23: Qahnaarin1997: I have a topic
 * 21:43:25: Qahnaarin1997: Actually
 * 21:43:25: The Supreme Argonian: cheers
 * 21:43:26: Atvelonis: If that's what you want to suggest, you can suggest that
 * 21:43:32: Atvelonis: We have the power to do it
 * 21:43:37: The Supreme Argonian: can I just paste what I sent you?
 * 21:43:42: The Supreme Argonian: For the sake of being quick
 * 21:43:48: Qahnaarin1997: By the power of castle Grayskull, Atvel?
 * 21:43:57: Atvelonis: Better if you paraphrase to leave out the Wikia bits
 * 21:44:16: Atvelonis: Because we're not in charge of what they implement
 * 21:44:35: The Supreme Argonian: A lot of users now use the app, and unfortunately, app users don't have the same abilities as PC users. Now, Wikia is slowly making it better, but private communication is still hard for app users. My idea is to allow each user to create their own 'talk thread' on the /d. Let's use Cheese Lord as an example. He would make a thread called "Cheese Lord's Talk Thread" or whatever, and on there, anybody could ask Cheese a question, talk to him about something TES-related, etc. The bit that would require support from Wikia is merely an optional thing, but would make it better in my opinion.
 * 21:44:41: RhodiumOdi: Must make the "Wikia V Wiki" post that reminds me
 * 21:44:41: The Supreme Argonian: There ya go
 * 21:44:52: The Supreme Argonian: you probably should
 * 21:45:01: The Supreme Argonian: and maybe include FANDOM
 * 21:45:03: The cheese lord of nirn: ...
 * 21:45:12: The Supreme Argonian: full capitals, of course...
 * 21:45:13: Qahnaarin1997: Why not use the /d users Tak page?
 * 21:45:17: Kora Stormblade: ^
 * 21:45:19: Aramithius: That would be really awkward to implement
 * 21:45:24: Qahnaarin1997: Practically the same concept.
 * 21:45:27: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: also people don't have admin or moderator rights on their own talk pages, user pages like other pages can be edited by anyone
 * 21:45:34: The Supreme Argonian: because on mobile it's hard to use talkpages. or forums. or edit. or anything really
 * 21:45:43: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: limiting it would be against TOU
 * 21:45:43: Qahnaarin1997: No it's not
 * 21:45:49: The cheese lord of nirn: i can use the talk page fine oin my mobile
 * 21:45:53: The Supreme Argonian: eh
 * 21:46:01: The Supreme Argonian: oh well
 * 21:46:09: Kora Stormblade: Everything will be harder on mobile, lol
 * 21:46:14: Qahnaarin1997: It is no where near editing difficult lol
 * 21:46:16: The Supreme Argonian: yall can vote negative then
 * 21:46:17: Kora Stormblade: That and you would have a lot of random threads everywhere
 * 21:46:18: The Supreme Argonian: idrc
 * 21:46:21: The Supreme Argonian: true
 * 21:46:29: Kora Stormblade: I mean I dont think its an actual topic to vote on
 * 21:46:32: The Supreme Argonian: oh
 * 21:46:38: The Supreme Argonian: well
 * 21:46:41: The Supreme Argonian: I sure feel stupid
 * 21:46:46: The Supreme Argonian: meh
 * 21:46:53: RhodiumOdi: Sounds hellish to moderate, and seems like it could go sideways very fast.
 * 21:46:57: Kora Stormblade: ^
 * 21:47:06: Atvelonis: You shouldn't feel stupid. A significant number of moot topics never pass
 * 21:47:12: RenzXVI: :p
 * 21:47:15: Atvelonis: Including many of mine and other staff members
 * 21:47:21: The Supreme Argonian: yeah, that was always gonna be the problem, which is why I had the whole Wikia thing, but obviously that's out of your control
 * 21:47:22: Qahnaarin1997: The platform we have for that is using a Talk page, and it works fine on PC and mobile imo. No need to put in extra work and manpower moderating it when we have a system that is established and moderated by patrollers
 * 21:47:24: The Lusty Dovahkiin: don't feel stupid, you wanted to improve something
 * 21:47:33: The Supreme Argonian: ok
 * 21:47:35: Aramithius: Would it be worth proposing as allowing for a user's own chat thread on the /d?
 * 21:47:46: Qahnaarin1997: No
 * 21:47:46: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: yeh use the mobile version of the wiki on browser
 * 21:48:11: The Supreme Argonian: I guess
 * 21:48:13: The Supreme Argonian: oh well
 * 21:48:15: The Supreme Argonian: never mind
 * 21:48:17: Qahnaarin1997: Aram, a talk page would serve the same as a personal thread
 * 21:48:26: Qahnaarin1997: That is basically what it is, in a sense.
 * 21:48:32: RenzXVI: Wikia really did a lot of dumbs things with the /d. They focused all their effort on making /d mobile friendly but none of the other parts of the wiki are.
 * 21:48:41: The Supreme Argonian: At the very least I know how the moot works now
 * 21:48:45: The Supreme Argonian: yeah
 * 21:49:00: Qahnaarin1997: Renz, they're trying to go more child friendly imo, just not youtube levels of bullshit yet
 * 21:49:08: The Supreme Argonian: They should've just made Forums mobile friendly
 * 21:49:08: RenzXVI: And yet, /d still doesn't even have the most basic text formatting which all primitive forums I've seen have.
 * 21:49:11: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: the whole /d is a dumb thing
 * 21:49:16: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: death to the infidels!
 * 21:49:19: Atvelonis: I agree Supreme, but that would have apparently been too much work
 * 21:49:20: Aramithius: I was studying how we put it in terms of a proposal to view on.
 * 21:49:27: RhodiumOdi: Yeah Renz, like releasing it 2 years before it's actually fucking usable
 * 21:49:30: Qahnaarin1997: Making it so anyone with a smartphone which is basically everyone that can access it is recipe for disaster.
 * 21:50:09: The Supreme Argonian: The Forums feel like less of a community, but more relaxed
 * 21:50:18: Qahnaarin1997: Or Atvel, FANDOM just wants to fuck us over as my avatar suggests.
 * 21:50:20: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: but a recipe for monayyy
 * 21:50:22: RenzXVI: Because the forums is an actual forum.
 * 21:50:28: RenzXVI: /d isn't a forum anymore.
 * 21:50:41: RenzXVI: /d is like a chat/forum hybrid.
 * 21:50:41: Qahnaarin1997: It's a TES tumblr
 * 21:50:44: The Supreme Argonian: why do they use FANDOM
 * 21:50:48: The Supreme Argonian: it's ridiculous
 * 21:50:50: Atvelonis: Rebranding thing they did last year
 * 21:50:53: Atvelonis: horrible name
 * 21:50:56: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: yeh
 * 21:50:57: The Supreme Argonian: it sounds like something a year 2 would come up with
 * 21:51:00: Atvelonis: "Corporate-friendly"
 * 21:51:16: RhodiumOdi: It's not like text formatting is this impossible task or anything, even Amino has it
 * 21:51:17: Atvelonis: I told them many times it was stupid, even on Council before it went live... as did everyone else
 * 21:51:17: Qahnaarin1997: You mean "Child-friendly"
 * 21:51:17: RenzXVI: First, it was Fandom, then it was FANDOM, then it was FANDOM but in Cyan color.
 * 21:51:24: RenzXVI: Next all wikis look like FInelia's wiki.
 * 21:51:24: The Supreme Argonian: at the very least just call it Fandom
 * 21:51:28: The Supreme Argonian: not FANDOM
 * 21:51:29: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: xD
 * 21:51:31: Qahnaarin1997: Lmfao Renz
 * 21:51:43: Atvelonis: It went from WikiCities -> Wikia -> Fandom powered by Wikia -> Fandom -> FANDOM
 * 21:51:46: Qahnaarin1997: Atvel
 * 21:51:49: Atvelonis: I don't know why they ever capitalized it
 * 21:51:50: Atvelonis: Really stupid
 * 21:51:52: Qahnaarin1997: We need a cactus emote
 * 21:51:57: Atvelonis: ugh
 * 21:52:01: Atvelonis: fine
 * 21:52:02: Qahnaarin1997: It's too long overdue
 * 21:52:05: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: that would be amazing <3 _ <3 all of wikia just how I like it
 * 21:52:05: Aramithius: Can we get back on topic? Or is the moot actually over?
 * 21:52:05: The Supreme Argonian: I still see FANDOM powered by Wikia
 * 21:52:09: Qahnaarin1997: Thank you bb
 * 21:52:11: The Supreme Argonian: Oh
 * 21:52:14: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: I think it's over
 * 21:52:22: RhodiumOdi: Fairly sure it's ded
 * 21:52:24: Atvelonis: Does anyone have any other topics/suggestions/anything?
 * 21:52:27: Atvelonis: Crusader, you had something?
 * 21:52:27: The Supreme Argonian: Do people stay on even after the moot is over?
 * 21:52:29: The Supreme Argonian: Um
 * 21:52:30: Atvelonis: I stay on
 * 21:52:38: High Goddess Venus-Afrodite-Finelia: well this is a chat
 * 21:52:39: The Supreme Argonian: I might think of something
 * 21:52:45: Qahnaarin1997: I'm a mod, so I typically stay in chat
 * 21:52:55: The Supreme Argonian: a rebellion against Wikia?
 * 21:53:01: The Supreme Argonian: make them change the name from FANDOM
 * 21:53:05: Qahnaarin1997: You're in my house sonny jim
 * 21:53:09: The Supreme Argonian: ooh
 * 21:53:19: Aramithius: Ok, in which case I'm off.
 * 21:53:24: The Crusader of Truth: Nah Atv
 * 21:53:24: The Supreme Argonian: good pie!
 * 21:53:24: Atvelonis: @The Crusader of Truth
 * 21:53:27: Atvelonis: oh
 * 21:53:30: Atvelonis: Alright then
 * 21:53:32: The Supreme Argonian: (Little Britain reference)
 * 21:53:40: Aramithius: Evening all
 * 21:53:41: Atvelonis: If we have no other topics, moot over. Though of course you're all welcome to stay