Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-27007772-20140611204941/@comment-25513154-20150613030448

''' Now, with dialoge from Sybille Stentor, We can start to see the Duel/Murder of High King Torygg was unnecisarry, and Ulfric was more into taking the throne than succeeding from the Empire. She states that Torygg, if asked by Ulfric, may have stood up against the Empire. Skyrim could have succeeded peacefuly, like Hammerfell did long ago. Instead, with the killing of Torygg, war sparked. The civil war began. '''

As stated how could he keep a kingdom if he can't defend it. Ever think the Thalmore would go easy on him when they are trying to taking over Nirn. I think not.

''' Second topic. The white-gold treaty. The Empire was beaten into submission by the Thalmor, and in this fight fought Ulfric. The white-gold tower fell, and a treaty was signed. There was two choices. '''

'''A. Be eradicated and replaced. This would have affected all proveninces terribly, and change every event from that point on. Everyone would be under the forceful rule of the Thalmor'''

'''B. Sign the treaty. Though the Empire would have to adopt some Thalmor/Aldmeri Diminion laws, they would stay intact. While this also affects everyone, it would be far, far less so.'''

The second choice was the obvious answer.

The second choice was the test from akatosh. "A parallel to this would be GOD likes to test his people, push them to the edge and then save them to test there mental and physical power" the same goes for the empire. Yet why would Akatosh save a broken, curropted, power hungry, Spiritually and physically dead empire that refuse to works with obey him.

The Domionion was that test. Remember the imperials are humans, because of that they are connected to shor and because of that they are force to be battle ready at all times. (just like the real GOD parallel says we have to be ready for battle at all times) The Empire's tower wasn't and they let that fall because of there sloppy actions. They then went ahead and spat in the face of akatosh by signing a treaty that he sent his "son" Timber septim to fight against so that this empire can be build on. The second choice is the result of lack of faith and trust in ones self and the ones that provide.

General Tullius is a perfect example. The fool doesn't even think Sovngard is real. You know what that means, he doesn't think Shor is real even though shor has a place in...sigh you get the point. They were bound to be beating to death.

'''Third topic: Talos worship. Talos is used by Ulfric and the Stormcloaks as a recruitment tool. It is very likely that they hardly care about it in the first place. Talos, being an entiamorph of three people (Tiber Septim, a Cyrodillic hero. Zurin Arctus, the first battlemage. Wulfried, the high king at the time), they have a 1/3 reason to care for him. Though it is not known if Talos is aware he was these three, or if he has his memories, it still stands. They use Talos the same was America used the idea of being bombed in the mid 40's.'''

'''Thats a bad guess. Talos (Jesus '''parallel- only the dragonborn-son of Akatosh) after he was left was placed there as a test for humans to identify someone trying to destroy Nirn liturally. If you try to take him out of the picture you just spat at akatoshs face because thats him in human form. The reason why Ulfric survived and actually saved the Db behind at helgen with Ralof is because the Stormcloaks are generally Hearted people. Notice right after helgen the stormcloaks could handle the empire with almost its full broken force. (They are already dead at that point thalmore repeated b.u.m rushing was the final blow that killed them) The rest of the mentioned heros were shors children or magnus possesed. Thats still "god heads" And wasn't Tiber one out of the three that survived the longest on nirn.

"Forth topic: Tullius and Ulfric. Tullius is subject to much hate, at the game presses you from very early on to join the Stormcloaks (Thanks, intro), but he never really messes up. If you do play the Imperial quest line, Tullius shows a string of good judgement and well focused mindsets. After you win the war, he says he suspects the Empire will go to war with the Thalmor soon, showing he in fact does not agree with everything the Thalmor pretain too. Legatte Rikke, who is a sort of house carl to Tullius, is a Talos worshiper herself, which shocks Tullius, but he never once tries to change the fact. Rikke and Ulfric most likely served together in the great war, as after Ulfric's death, she says "Ulfric my old friend, what have you done".

Talk and no action, along side a dead empire equalls zero movement. You see that moment of curroption that was over looked is the same reason the empire died, they kept over looking those moments that slowly build up and cause the current events in TESV. The player shouldn't have even gotten the option to side with the empire, they should have a bounty placed on there head even though they haven't done anything. What you should have said was Hadvar could have easily told Tullius about the person on the list. (That action showed that they were no different from Thalmore.) Guess what, other situations like what the dragonborn was in happens every other day in the current empire. You do realize those ADD UP to thousands murdered right? Alongside that with the thalmore murders. Hundreds of thousands of peps dead.

"If you played the Stormcloak questline, with his dying breath Tullius concedes Ulfric and the Stormcloaks had a point regarding the decadence of the Empire and the uncertain future Skyrim faces, but with his last words he claims the Imperials are not the villians and warns Ulfric that the war ultimately benefited the Thalmor the most."

Thats were your wrong again, He clearly stated in a confused state;

Tullius:  "We aren't the bad guys you know."

Ulfric:  "Maybe not, but you certainly aren't the good guys." Tullius:  "'Perhaps you're right. But then what does that make you?"'' Ulfric:  "You just said it yourself." Galmar:  "It makes us right."'''

The guy is crazy (not you lol) Tullius.

'''Many times trough speaking with a variety of NPC's, Ulfric is shown to be a man of greed. Killing Torygg for the throne was the first step. This is a man who would do anything for personal benifit."'''

Um could you get those lines for me? because if its people of the empire they all seem to be full of themself an lacking the full picture. The only person i ever heard say he was greedy was Dengeir and he was just messing around making a point.

Fifth and final topic:The future.

<p style="line-height:26px;">'''With the Empire: Skyrim will stay part of the Empire. A war with the Thalmor will most likely be waged. With the size of the Empire, and if enough time has passed, power, they have a chance to defeat the Thalmor. This will bring an end to the ban on Talos worship, the adopted Thalmor laws, and the unethical ways some thigns were done. The entire coninent of Tamriel will be affected, most likely negitivily at first, but later possitivily. If you take MK lore into the Bethesda lore (Most do not, but a very small few do) this is the end of Landfall, with it being avoided.'''

<p style="line-height:26px;">Wrong, people are being KILLED off by the thousands with the thalmore everywhere. You don't think staying quite kills, hmm? These murders and the thalmore raiding and turtoring both by the empire and the Domionion would agro people, wouldn't they? Less soilders, less commoners, nobles, and in general HUMANS. Yeah the humans the Thalmore want to get out of the way to reck Nirn.

<p style="line-height:26px;">"With the Stormcloaks: Skyrim will no longer be part of the Empire. You now have a weak Empire and a weak Stormcloak rebellion. The Thalmor/Aldmeri Diminion will war with them, defeating the weakened Empire with ease. Though, unlike the Empire, the Stormcloaks have more of a chance to make allies, the Thalmor is large enough to defeat the singe-provenince rebellion. If you follow MK lore with your Bethesda lore, this is the begining of Landfall, with it not avoided."

<p style="line-height:26px;">The Empire is dead, liturally have you read about how all other towers are dead or are out of existance. The only remaining ONE is Snow throat.

<p style="line-height:26px;">Have you also read about the repeat wars and raids in cyrodill, they are recked down there (these ahppen almost everyday). The place is in rubles. The last places are holding it's own are skryim, hammerfell and the Argoinans Home land.

<p style="line-height:26px;">"Conclusion: The Empire is the better choice. It will benifit everyone better, and every reason you have to dislike them would be gone after the defeat of the Thalmor/Aldmeri Dimionion. Skyrim, the Empire, and even the independant bottom half of Hammerfell. 

<p style="line-height:26px;">Tullius is the simpler choice of the two main faction members, and less corrupt than Ulfric in every way.

<p style="line-height:26px;margin-bottom:0px!important;">Out of the two factions, only the Empire could defeat the Thalmor/Aldmeri Diminion."

<p style="line-height:26px;margin-bottom:0px!important;">um no. Like i said they are no different than the Elves. The empire is cursed with evil and weakness by their own fault.

<p style="line-height:26px;margin-bottom:0px!important;">All that needs to happen is cyrodill gets their own rebellion going strong, hammerfell needs to get themselves thoughter and alongside that skyrim needs to start preparing to join up partys. Remember the elves are still weak ,they are planning and still recovering. They are spread out and can be cut off from each nation future weaking them. I have to say the empire did go down fighting, they did enough to get the other nations time to get there stuff thoughter.

<p style="line-height:26px;margin-bottom:0px!important;">By the way no matter what the Creation kit ,the darkbrotherhood, the repeated bounty on the ldb head for killing all these thalmore (named or unamed), the empire wanting to cut off his head for no reason and him escaping helgen gives him more than enough reasons to fully leave the empire sides. Saying other wise would be complete denial.