User blog comment:Zippertrain85/Why the Stormcloaks are right part 2/@comment-9156240-20130604214324/@comment-9156240-20130605011952


 * One


 * Sorry if I misunderstood. The way you worded that sentence made it seem like you wanted evidence of Brunwulf being a veteran.


 * I don't think I would consider this a stable argument point. You must remember that this is a game. There are certain things Bethesda can't do with the A.I. Just because Brunwulf becomes Jarl the next day doesn't mean that he is a spy. I'm sure that in real life, it would take time for a new Jarl to be appointed, but seeing as how Bethesda doesn't have the time and resources to make this the most politically realistic game of all time, that's why Brunwulf becomes Jarl so soon. ALSO, simply because Maven "supports" the Empire (in quotations because I would like to see you show some evidence here) does not mean she is a spy! It also doesn't mean that she answers to the Empire or the Thalmor. She becomes Jarl of Riften because she knows her shit. If she even just pretends to support the Empire, she'll be placed on that throne. And anyways, she's already bascially the Jarl of Riften from the start. She's certainly more influential and powerful.


 * If Ulfric's resources and men are stretched too thin, then why waste more men to save the Nords? If he can sacrifice that many people to save the village, he can easily sacrifice a fraction of those soldiers helping out some minority refugees held captive by bandits or whatnot. And anyhow, it's not just on the large scale of life or death. How hard would it be for him to leave his castle, bring some food to the Dunmer, and go back inside. Or even leave his castle and tell Rolff Stone-Fist to cut it out with the harassing of the Dunmer citizens and the Argonians? BETTER YET! How hard would it be for him to allow Argonians and Kajiit inside the city? Would that be sacrificing soldiers? No. Would that keep those people safe so that they aren't endangered later on and require soldiers/guards to come help them? Yep. And come to think of it, you and I haven't considered one thing: Ulfric before the rebellion. He would still be racist. Leading the rebellion wouldn't magically make him mistreat/ignore Kajiit and Argonians. Brunwulf's example could have been from pre-war.


 * Two


 * Actually, yes, it does work that way. You see, Bethesda Game Studios wrote everything that is in the game, and they put everything there for a reason. Therefore, unless directly stated by creators outside of game or characters in-game, character dialogue is valid evidence. The word of the developers is the word of god, and the characters are speaking the word of the developers. Just because it doesn't seem to make sense to you that does not mean it's false.


 * Just because a certain hold is controlled by Stormcloaks or just because a certain hold hasn't a picked a side yet doesn't mean that Talos worship is legal. It isn't officially legal anywhere in Skyrim (A safer word would be permitted or allowed or even tolerated). Even if the shrine does not have a blessing, it does not mean it should be there. The Thalmor are "working" to remove all Talos worship and acknowledgement. Leaving a large room dedicated only to Talos means leaving a large room that acknowledges Talos. If they're really trying to destroy all of man by stopping Talos worship, leaving that effigy there would hinder their progress.


 * Three


 * Once again, you are putting civilians and extremists together by saying Snow Elves. Just saying so that you know for future debates/arguments. Something to consider.


 * Four


 * High King does not require being a militarist. That's what people like General Tullius are for. He does not have to know that at all. What even defines being a good king? What defines a bad king? How can you use the statement that he "doesn't seem like a very good king" unless you set boundaries and define what that means? Even then, that is your personal opinion and proves very little. In my opinion, a good ruler is someone who protects their people (no matter what race *cough cough* Ulfric *cough cough*), and doesn't needlessly put them in danger without a plan. Surrendering to the Thalmor was the only way to keep people from needlessly dying. I would have preferred it if Torygg stayed with the Thamor/Empire until he actually had a plan and then go through with it. So to me, he does sound like a good king. Starting an argument with someone without fully understanding the topic or having strong evidence at your side the whole time is being unprepared, and while losing an argument has benign consequences, losing a war permanently has very significant consequences.


 * Six (I know I skipped 5. Nothing to debate/argue there)


 * You must understand that being a leader doesn't necessarily entail being a soldier. Yes, it's a nice perk in times of war, but do you think Elisif the Fair is a master at the Art of War? No. That is why she has General Tullius by her side. And even so, it is said by multiple NPCs that Tullius is the one doing all the real work.

Here's one way to see where I'm coming from: Legate Rikke is to Galmar as Tullius is to Ulfric.

But the whole point of this... well... point, I guess, was that simply because Ulfric goes on field trips from time to time doesn't automatically make him a good leader.


 * Did you even read what I wrote? Strategically speaking it was a death sentence to surrender. I said that they would have more of a chance to survive if they tried to confuse the Imperials and give themselves just enough time to escape. And it only worked out because a motherfucking dragon came from the past and started destroying the city before he got his head chopped off. Do you think he had any possible way to predict that? Unless he read an Elder Scroll on the Throat of the World and foresaw Alduin's coming, then calculated the location of the Dragonborn at the time, and the altitude from which Alduin would descen- To cut it short, no, he couldn't.


 * This has got to be your weakest point yet. Just because innocent civilians are being attacked by a dragon in another hold, Ulfric (a soldier himself) and his trained soldiers can't help save them? No. That's not right at all. If Ulfric is a Jarl and has a hold to run, why is he going around with his Stormcloaks and putting himself in danger all the time? He clearly almost died anyways. This point and your last one are clashing with each other.