The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot/Log 2015 October 24

Would anyone with facebook mind liking this page for me? https://www.facebook.com/EverythingElderScrolls?ref=hl brb
 * 20:04:15: Cheatcodechamp: To all presenters, please make sure you have a basic opening statment for your items
 * 20:04:27: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, when you are ready the floor is yours Atve
 * 20:04:54: Atvelonis: Ok, so most of you were present for last week's moot, and all of you who were are aware that it was fairly long and somewhat disorganized.
 * 20:05:06: Atvelonis: I credit this in part to the lack of limits to topics per presenter.
 * 20:05:07: Zippertrain85: I was not present.
 * 20:05:16: Zippertrain85: Can I have a brief overview of it?
 * 20:05:19: Atvelonis: Well, it lasted a very long time
 * 20:05:25: Timeoin: there are notes about it online
 * 20:05:31: Atvelonis: The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot/2015 October 17 zip
 * 20:05:36: ~*LilithRayn*~: I'm back. ^_^
 * 20:05:43: I am Noir: wb o/
 * 20:05:52: Timeoin: wb :)
 * 20:05:53: ~*LilithRayn*~: Tyvm. ^_^
 * 20:06:20: KINMUNE: Hello there, Dovahsebrom!
 * 20:06:24: ~*LilithRayn*~: o.
 * 20:06:26: Zippertrain85: Dovahsebroom!
 * 20:06:28: Bluesonic1: o/
 * 20:06:30: I am Noir: o/
 * 20:06:33: Dovahsebrom: hello
 * 20:06:35: Ottoman Hold: Hi Dovah
 * 20:09:10: G0LD3NF1RE: wb KINMUNE ^^
 * 20:09:12: Bronkiin: @Blue, agreed.
 * 20:09:22: Cheatcodechamp: It is hard to create a solid measurement, Im thinking a set number of topics, period unless we can create a clear measurement.
 * 20:09:36: Bronkiin: I think it should be a set number per person.
 * 20:09:39: Zippertrain85: I think Atv has a point.
 * 20:09:40: Bronkiin: So one, maybe two.
 * 20:09:52: RenzXVI: I'd say 2-3.
 * 20:09:55: G0LD3NF1RE: Then there needs to be a set number per person and per moot
 * 20:10:09: G0LD3NF1RE: If there suddently is like 10 people who wants to present
 * 20:10:11: Cheatcodechamp: I think two, maybe three would be good.
 * 20:10:21: Bluesonic1: ^
 * 20:10:24: ~*LilithRayn*~: I agree with 2.
 * 20:10:27: Bronkiin: 2
 * 20:10:38: Ottoman Hold: The problem with that is an urgent problem might be postponed until later
 * 20:10:47: Zippertrain85: Yes, Ottoman is righrt
 * 20:10:53: RenzXVI: Gold has a point. Maybe a set topic limit per mood then divide it upon people.
 * 20:10:56: Atvelonis: if it's really urgent they can do it in place of another
 * 20:10:56: Ottoman Hold: Although 2 sounds pretty good if a number is needed
 * 20:10:57: Zippertrain85: What if a serious issue gets pushed back for weeks.
 * 20:10:57: Timeoin: can I say something? :P
 * 20:11:02: Atvelonis: but I do see where you're coming from
 * 20:11:03: Atvelonis: ofc tim
 * 20:11:08: Bluesonic1: @Tim: No :P
 * 20:11:09: Timeoin: if its urgent/serious - use that as one of your 1/2 items
 * 20:11:16: ~*LilithRayn*~: ^
 * 20:11:16: Bronkiin: Yep
 * 20:11:17: G0LD3NF1RE: Yup
 * 20:11:27: Timeoin: and have the one concerning the page colour of the wiki as the following week's topic
 * 20:11:31: Ottoman Hold: Ideally, yeah
 * 20:11:33: G0LD3NF1RE: haha
 * 20:11:36: Zippertrain85: Should we have some "free" time in Moot.
 * 20:11:41: Zippertrain85: That people can discuss anything.
 * 20:11:48: Bronkiin: Depends on time
 * 20:11:49: Ottoman Hold: But if there are like four issues (sorry about the what ifs)
 * 20:11:55: G0LD3NF1RE: Maybe if we have leftover time?
 * 20:12:03: Bluesonic1: @Zip: Depends on time really, it's not always possible but we do try for it
 * 20:12:08: Zippertrain85: So, if something does come up and it's not given a specific spot. We can do it then.
 * 20:12:34: Zippertrain85: Maybe We can have the hour and half be about planned discussions.
 * 20:12:34: Timeoin: Moot's usually only an hour
 * 20:12:40: Zippertrain85: And the last thirty mins be free time.
 * 20:12:48: Timeoin: the last moot was the rarity
 * 20:12:51: Atvelonis: That's interesting zip
 * 20:12:55: Cheatcodechamp: one is preferred, but they have been pushing two.
 * 20:12:57: Zippertrain85: Or Forty-five for planned ones.
 * 20:13:02: Zippertrain85: And fifteen for free time.
 * 20:13:03: Bronkiin: I've been in two which have been 2hours+
 * 20:13:13: G0LD3NF1RE: If it hasn't gone 2 hours the moot usually end with everyone saying "Yeah we're done", if the moot is over in let's say 1:30 min then the moot leader usually asks "Anything more?" that can be used as free time if someone wish to speak about anything more
 * 20:13:15: Ottoman Hold: Uh oh, Web filter is acting up again, I might sign out accidentaly
 * 20:13:15: Bronkiin: Not ideal, lol
 * 20:13:17: Atvelonis: Well we should stay on track guys
 * 20:13:23: Atvelonis: The presenter idea
 * 20:13:24: Bronkiin: @Gold, agreed
 * 20:13:30: Ottoman Hold: That makes sense
 * 20:13:32: Atvelonis: 2 or 3 per person...? with some flexibility
 * 20:13:45: Bronkiin: 2 with flexibility imp
 * 20:13:48: Bronkiin: *imo
 * 20:13:57: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, so I think we should vote on the limit.
 * 20:14:03: Cheatcodechamp: Are you ok with that Atve?
 * 20:14:04: Bluesonic1: What Atvel said. Flexibility = size of topic and how many present that week
 * 20:14:08: Atvelonis: yes ccc
 * 20:14:08: Bluesonic1: ?
 * 20:14:09: Timeoin: (support)
 * 20:14:13: ~*LilithRayn*~: lol
 * 20:14:16: Atvelonis: Do we like 2 with some flexibility?
 * 20:14:17: Atvelonis: lol tim
 * 20:14:20: G0LD3NF1RE: (y)
 * 20:14:23: Timeoin: /me just woke up
 * 20:14:24: G0LD3NF1RE: (support)
 * 20:14:25: Zippertrain85: Two topics Atv?
 * 20:14:25: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 20:14:27: G0LD3NF1RE: Whoops
 * 20:14:27: ~*LilithRayn*~: (support)
 * 20:14:27: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, all in favor of a 2-3 topic max?
 * 20:14:30: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 20:14:33: Atvelonis: yes zip, 2-3 ish
 * 20:14:33: Bluesonic1: (+)
 * 20:14:35: Cheatcodechamp: Oh, we are voting already
 * 20:14:38: Zippertrain85:
 * 20:14:39: Ottoman Hold: (Support) with flex
 * 20:14:41: Bronkiin: (support)
 * 20:14:42: Zippertrain85: How do you do that?
 * 20:14:44: Atvelonis: ( + ) zip
 * 20:14:46: RenzXVI: ( + )
 * 20:14:46: G0LD3NF1RE:
 * 20:14:49: Zippertrain85: (+)
 * 20:15:06: Timeoin: (support)
 * 20:15:06: G0LD3NF1RE: You can also do (( Support )) if you so wish
 * 20:15:19: Atvelonis: 9-0-0?
 * 20:15:22: Kora Stormblade: ((support))
 * 20:15:25: Kora Stormblade: Oh dang it
 * 20:15:30: Kora Stormblade: You get the idea
 * 20:15:32: G0LD3NF1RE: Yep atve
 * 20:15:40: Atvelonis: 10-0-0 with kora
 * 20:15:44: Atvelonis: ( + ) kora
 * 20:15:45: G0LD3NF1RE: Yep
 * 20:15:51: Kora Stormblade: (+)
 * 20:15:53: Bronkiin: I think that might just have passed.
 * 20:15:55: Kora Stormblade: There it goes
 * 20:16:00: Atvelonis: Yeah that's good
 * 20:16:01: G0LD3NF1RE: wtf
 * 20:16:09: G0LD3NF1RE: (( Support )) works for me?
 * 20:16:17: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, it passes
 * 20:16:17: Bluesonic1: Both work yes
 * 20:16:19: Atvelonis: ((support))
 * 20:16:19: G0LD3NF1RE: Maybe you have to have capital letter?
 * 20:16:24: Cheatcodechamp: 10-0 correct?
 * 20:16:27: Zippertrain85: Yep.
 * 20:16:27: ~*LilithRayn*~: Yes
 * 20:16:27: Atvelonis: ((Support))
 * 20:16:29: Atvelonis: hmm
 * 20:16:30: Kora Stormblade: I used a lowercase by accident..yeah capital
 * 20:16:31: Atvelonis: yes ccc
 * 20:16:32: Kora Stormblade: wait what
 * 20:16:35: Zippertrain85: Just do one (
 * 20:16:41: G0LD3NF1RE: /me facepalms
 * 20:16:42: G0LD3NF1RE: Yep
 * 20:16:44: G0LD3NF1RE: lol
 * 20:16:45: Atvelonis: yeah
 * 20:16:46: Timeoin:
 * 20:16:47: ~*LilithRayn*~: So, that was topic 1
 * 20:16:48: Atvelonis: was confused lol gold
 * 20:16:48: Ottoman Hold: Yeah
 * 20:16:51: Timeoin:
 * 20:17:03: Cheatcodechamp: Ok Blue is next on the agenda. Blue, are you ready?
 * 20:17:10: Timeoin: Support
 * 20:17:13: Kora Stormblade: I think + is just easier xD
 * 20:17:17: G0LD3NF1RE: I have to leave early, sorry :/
 * 20:17:21: ~*LilithRayn*~: -focus-
 * 20:17:29: ~*LilithRayn*~: Awww Bye Gold. o.
 * 20:17:30: Atvelonis: bye gold o.
 * 20:17:34: Cheatcodechamp: BlueSonic1?
 * 20:17:35: Bluesonic1: Yep :) I think I got it mostly typed out, it's too early in the morning to know if it's understandable lol
 * 20:17:36: Kora Stormblade: Bye o/
 * 20:17:37: G0LD3NF1RE: See Ya
 * 20:17:38: Kora Stormblade: Hey Star
 * 20:17:42: Bluesonic1: Bye o/
 * 20:17:44: Atvelonis: wb star
 * 20:17:47: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, Blue has the floor
 * 20:17:53: Cheatcodechamp: When you are ready Blue
 * 20:17:54: Ottoman Hold: - one G0LD, + one Star?
 * 20:18:12: Bluesonic1: Well, put simply, the title is "Featured Image", not "Featured Screenshot". Concept art is a huge part of the game; it's essentially its foundation. Without it, we wouldn't have the games we have today really. And the wiki has a huge with so much art to show off, I just really think it's an under-utilized area that we're not taking advantage of to show off to editors and potential editors. The wiki is more than just a collection of screenshots we take- we've got official concept art too! :)
 * 20:18:15: Bluesonic1: Also just to mention, but the rule of only screenshots being featured was never actually voted on, it was just kinda there since it started :P
 * 20:18:44: Bronkiin: I think it should be about showing off images we've taken
 * 20:18:50: Bluesonic1: Discuss :)
 * 20:18:52: Zippertrain85: The thing is Blue
 * 20:18:54: Bronkiin: I do like screenshots.
 * 20:19:03: Zippertrain85: Would some of this art be considered fan-made?
 * 20:19:08: Timeoin: wow. noone likes this :P
 * 20:19:14: Atvelonis: I like concept art, but people should be rewarded for taking screenshots...
 * 20:19:16: Atvelonis: I dunno
 * 20:19:17: Zippertrain85: If we don't have fan-made content, why fan-made art?
 * 20:19:20: Ottoman Hold: It shouldn't be limited to screenshots only
 * 20:19:26: Bluesonic1: The wiki doesn't, and shouldn't have fan-made concept art
 * 20:19:29: RenzXVI: The complication is how you'd know who made it.
 * 20:19:30: Bluesonic1: It should all be official
 * 20:19:32: Ottoman Hold: but some concept art is over the top
 * 20:19:33: Zippertrain85: If it's official though, we can add it.
 * 20:19:38: Zippertrain85: I don't see why not.
 * 20:19:38: Timeoin: some of that is official stuff
 * 20:19:42: Timeoin: the in-game maps are
 * 20:19:51: Timeoin: for hammerfall, summerset, etc
 * 20:20:04: Timeoin: (I think they're duplicates of EXISTING ones, but they're proper)
 * 20:20:13: Ottoman Hold: I thinkit depends on the quality of the art
 * 20:20:15: Bronkiin: You could get any image from the web if we do concept art.
 * 20:20:19: Bluesonic1: Yeah I'm strictly talking about official stuff. Maybe because I'm an artist and I have a clear meaning of what concept art, but fan art is VERY different
 * 20:20:23: Bluesonic1: No
 * 20:20:27: Bluesonic1: It has to be official
 * 20:20:29: Zippertrain85: ^
 * 20:20:32: Cheatcodechamp: The point of the featured image was to show off images users added to the wiki, the concept are and Bethesda images show nothing special to our wiki. Every wiki has those images
 * 20:20:34: Bluesonic1: And the wiki already has plenty
 * 20:20:37: Timeoin: I agree. Concept art should be allowed :)
 * 20:20:40: RenzXVI: I'd agree if it's just official art.
 * 20:20:47: Timeoin: i.e. official
 * 20:20:49: Bronkiin: It's allowed, just not as featured image.
 * 20:20:53: Zippertrain85: ^
 * 20:20:55: Zippertrain85: Exactly.
 * 20:20:58: ~*LilithRayn*~: Is it possible to just create a new category for it?
 * 20:21:17: Timeoin: (I would also add that I am amenable to unofficial art being included if its been promoted by Bethesda/Zenimax)
 * 20:21:20: Ottoman Hold: A little over kill to make it itss own thing
 * 20:21:26: Cheatcodechamp: But its not special, UESP and ESOwiki have them, there is nothing unique to them.
 * 20:21:34: Bronkiin: Exactly/
 * 20:21:37: Timeoin: because that mean's they've unofficially endorsed it, (and as long as its categorised thats okay)
 * 20:21:45: Zippertrain85: Not everything we do here has to be like that CCC.
 * 20:21:48: Bronkiin: Screenshots we've added are unique to this wiki.
 * 20:21:49: Bluesonic1: Yeah but a lot of people don't even know it exists on the wiki(s)
 * 20:21:50: Zippertrain85: We are a TES Community after all.
 * 20:21:52: Bluesonic1: And that's a shame
 * 20:22:00: Bronkiin: Which is why we should showcase the,
 * 20:22:06: Ottoman Hold: Maybe if its only user made or something
 * 20:22:36: Bluesonic1: I'm very much against user-made art; we'd have to uphold certain standards and things might get messy
 * 20:22:41: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:22:53: Bronkiin: It should be in-game, user made.
 * 20:22:58: Cheatcodechamp: ^
 * 20:23:00: Bluesonic1: I'm also against giving concept art it's own "thing"; that's is indeed overkill
 * 20:23:06: Timeoin: not the first time we've negated people's "things"
 * 20:23:16: Timeoin: we had the videos thing after Skyrim came out
 * 20:23:26: Timeoin: people were (generally) okay with that policy
 * 20:23:27: RenzXVI: We could do what ~*LilithRayn*~ said, separate categories. Featured image should be something the user took themselves. Then the featured at is something we just vote on.
 * 20:23:37: RenzXVI: art*
 * 20:23:38: Timeoin: mainly because they couldnt stop edit-warring
 * 20:23:41: Bronkiin: Featured art as well as image?
 * 20:23:44: Bronkiin: Bit much.
 * 20:23:46: Bronkiin: imo
 * 20:23:47: Atvelonis: we have separate categories but we should have separate votes
 * 20:23:50: Atvelonis: it is a bit much
 * 20:23:59: Cheatcodechamp: Means more voting, and we have trouble getting people involved as it is.
 * 20:24:04: Bluesonic1: Yeah I agree it's a bit much too. They're both images after all :P
 * 20:24:08: ~*LilithRayn*~: I only asked about making it it's own thing because this has been brought up a couple of times and has had no solution. It just seemed to make sense.
 * 20:24:22: ~*LilithRayn*~: But they are different, or they'd be in the same category
 * 20:24:31: Bronkiin: I think we can get great images without offical art as well.
 * 20:24:34: Ottoman Hold: Maybe once every month, there's concept art instead of a screenshot
 * 20:24:48: ~*LilithRayn*~: ^ That's not a bad idea either
 * 20:24:56: Atvelonis: eh
 * 20:25:03: Bluesonic1: That's not a bad idea Ottoman
 * 20:25:18: Cheatcodechamp: Screenshots are what make this wiki unique, why should we show off other peoples work over something nobody else has?
 * 20:25:20: RenzXVI: I like it.
 * 20:25:24: Atvelonis: do you mean once per month we ONLY vote on concept art instead of screenshots?
 * 20:25:38: Bronkiin: I don't see the point in that, really.
 * 20:25:39: Bluesonic1: We should show off Bethesda's work because that's who the wiki is made for ;)
 * 20:25:42: Ottoman Hold: I dunno, but definately take it into account
 * 20:25:46: Ottoman Hold: Probably AT
 * 20:25:56: Atvelonis: well the wiki is really made for the people who play the games
 * 20:26:08: Atvelonis: bethesda just happens to have made them want to come here
 * 20:26:09: Bluesonic1: what the wiki is based on then*
 * 20:26:26: Dovahsebrom: If we were doing this for Bethesda I would expect some payment
 * 20:26:35: Bronkiin: Yeh, lol
 * 20:26:37: Zippertrain85: That would be complicated.
 * 20:26:38: Bluesonic1: Maybe the concept art doesn't have much value to you guys because it's an artist thing, but when I found that category I was mesmerized
 * 20:26:40: Timeoin: we aren't doing this for Bethesda lol
 * 20:26:51: Bronkiin: I think we keep it at screenshots.
 * 20:27:34: Cheatcodechamp: The wiki is also for the community, we all love the games, and put time and effort into this for free to help others. User screenshots are the work of our love for the wiki and the game, and I disagree with us pushing our hard work aside for something every wiki has.
 * 20:27:35: Ottoman Hold: I definitely consider some concept art, but not every single week really
 * 20:27:42: Bluesonic1: Because honestly, some of the concept art in there, is far more likely to catch people's eye than a lousy screenshot :P
 * 20:27:54: Bronkiin: Agree with CCC, there.
 * 20:28:01: Bronkiin: Lousy?
 * 20:28:06: Bronkiin: ... ;)
 * 20:28:07: RenzXVI: :p
 * 20:28:10: Cheatcodechamp: If anything Blue, The wikis FB should show off these images more, the screenshots are cool, but should we feature them along side gamers works
 * 20:28:27: Bluesonic1: ... That's not a bad compromise
 * 20:28:27: Zippertrain85: The Facebook?
 * 20:28:29: Ottoman Hold: So other wikis don't have screenshots?
 * 20:28:30: Zippertrain85: That could work.
 * 20:28:36: Timeoin: we have a fb now.
 * 20:28:39: Timeoin: Facebooks are cool
 * 20:28:43: Cheatcodechamp: https://www.facebook.com/The-Elder-Scrolls-Wiki-182650958515920/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel
 * 20:28:45: ~*LilithRayn*~: I need the Facebook link... lol
 * 20:28:47: ~*LilithRayn*~: Thanks
 * 20:28:52: Bronkiin: That's not bad. Concept art on facebook to showcase it.
 * 20:28:56: Bronkiin: Keep featured image as it is.
 * 20:29:01: Bronkiin: Good compromise.
 * 20:29:08: Bluesonic1: Maybe a weekly posting of concept art on facebook, and leave feature image for screenshots then?
 * 20:29:11: RenzXVI: I'd go with that.
 * 20:29:16: Ottoman Hold: That could work
 * 20:29:25: Zippertrain85: I don't have a facebook
 * 20:29:26: ~*LilithRayn*~: I just liked it..lol
 * 20:29:29: Zippertrain85: Sorry. :P
 * 20:29:30: Ottoman Hold: (if I had a facebook)
 * 20:29:30: Timeoin: hooray :)
 * 20:29:39: Cheatcodechamp: I know know who you are :)
 * 20:29:46: ~*LilithRayn*~: Who?
 * 20:29:49: Bronkiin: Oh.
 * 20:29:57: Ottoman Hold: Poor At and his connections :(
 * 20:29:58: Timeoin: he just messaged me
 * 20:29:58: Cheatcodechamp: When you like the page, I get told
 * 20:30:04: ~*LilithRayn*~: Oh, haha. ^_^
 * 20:30:13: Cheatcodechamp: I wont stalk, but back to topic
 * 20:30:20: ~*LilithRayn*~: Atvelonis has had problems all day.
 * 20:30:24: Bluesonic1: Might wait a bit to see if Atvel returns :P
 * 20:30:33: ~*LilithRayn*~: Have we reached a voting point?
 * 20:30:41: Timeoin: now, pretend we didnt say things about him
 * 20:30:43: Atvelonis: I have really really crap internet
 * 20:30:43: Zippertrain85: We voting for the Facebook thing?
 * 20:30:43: Timeoin: oh, wait
 * 20:30:44: ~*LilithRayn*~: lol
 * 20:30:46: Cheatcodechamp: So, are we ok with keeping things as is for the featured images, but showcasing the other stuff once a week on the FB?
 * 20:30:53: Zippertrain85: (+)
 * 20:30:54: ~*LilithRayn*~: (support)
 * 20:30:58: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 20:30:58: Bluesonic1: (+)
 * 20:30:59: Bronkiin: (+)
 * 20:31:03: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 20:31:04: Ottoman Hold: sure, (+)
 * 20:31:28: Cheatcodechamp: (+)
 * 20:31:34: Timeoin: (support)
 * 20:31:51: ~*LilithRayn*~: Moving smoothly today. lol
 * 20:32:02: Timeoin: @Lilith ... sorry :P
 * 20:32:04: Timeoin: I had to :)
 * 20:32:13: ~*LilithRayn*~: What? What did you do? T.T
 * 20:32:21: RenzXVI: He added you? XD
 * 20:32:24: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, 9-0 passed
 * 20:32:34: Timeoin: I added someone else :P
 * 20:32:37: Cheatcodechamp: Tim, your item is next. Are you ready?
 * 20:32:38: Zippertrain85: One other topic?
 * 20:32:39: Timeoin: eh, they're cool as well :D
 * 20:32:41: Zippertrain85: And then free time?
 * 20:32:45: Timeoin: yeah, im ready
 * 20:32:51: Cheatcodechamp: Tim has the floor.
 * 20:32:58: ~*LilithRayn*~: -Focus-
 * 20:33:04: Timeoin: my one was actually a request from Crusader
 * 20:33:28: KINMUNE: Hello there, Wulfharth!
 * 20:33:31: ~*LilithRayn*~: o.
 * 20:33:31: Atvelonis: hey wulf
 * 20:33:33: Timeoin: They wanted the idea of adding "" to the template for creating new pages discussed here
 * 20:33:34: Zippertrain85: Wul!
 * 20:33:37: Wulfharth: is this the moot?
 * 20:33:41: Ottoman Hold: (a little late) Hello
 * 20:33:41: Timeoin: yeah, Wulf :)
 * 20:34:10: ~*LilithRayn*~: Is that it, Tim?
 * 20:34:13: RenzXVI: I don't get it yet.
 * 20:34:17: Cheatcodechamp: What did we remove Pagename?
 * 20:34:18: Timeoin: but yeah, that was basically the idea - using as a default, instead of the manual typing out
 * 20:34:29: Timeoin: we used to use that, but we removed that a while ago
 * 20:34:30: Atvelonis: Eh, I don't think I like Crusader's idea. We got rid of using because it messed with some stuff.
 * 20:34:37: Timeoin: there are a few pros and cons with it
 * 20:34:43: Atvelonis: Like if you have Daedra Heart (Skyrim)
 * 20:34:47: Timeoin: ill explain for those that probably dont understand wtf im talking about :P
 * 20:34:48: Atvelonis: it writes the full thing out
 * 20:34:52: Timeoin: ^ That
 * 20:34:58: Bluesonic1: What Atvel said too
 * 20:35:01: Cheatcodechamp: It saves time, and only needs to be removed if the item has the brackets in their name
 * 20:35:07: Timeoin: the advantage is for (most) pages, it can make it easier to mass-add pages
 * 20:35:15: Timeoin: and we have a loooot of pages that need adding '
 * 20:35:22: Ottoman Hold: Oh, is it for individual pages?
 * 20:35:31: Timeoin: not going to lie, in the past, I've used pagename a lot as a shortcut
 * 20:35:46: Atvelonis: I have created over 3000 articles without using with no issue... it works just fine
 * 20:35:46: Timeoin: yeah, so, you know the templates that let you add new pages?
 * 20:36:00: Ottoman Hold: Maybe good to add for bots
 * 20:36:23: Bronkiin: We must have got rid of it for a reason?
 * 20:36:32: Timeoin: yeah,
 * 20:36:33: Cheatcodechamp: If you created a new article, it would start with a basic line. If we create a page for "John" the page code would say '''PAGENAME" is a character in Online.  We fix it up, keep the pagename, and the template makes it that it says john.  helps when people have long names.
 * 20:36:43: Timeoin: we got rid of it for the reasons Atve said
 * 20:36:50: Timeoin: for pages with in the name
 * 20:36:56: Atvelonis: eh ccc
 * 20:36:58: Timeoin: i.e. Riften (Skyrim)
 * 20:37:02: Cheatcodechamp: I have forgotten to add names, I didnt notice that it was removed.
 * 20:37:04: Timeoin: Riften [Skyrim]
 * 20:37:10: Atvelonis: it's not much of a help
 * 20:37:16: Ottoman Hold: You can just type it out then, right?
 * 20:37:18: Cheatcodechamp: so it just said "is a character in game"
 * 20:37:21: ~*LilithRayn*~: I am not voting on this topic.
 * 20:37:24: ~*LilithRayn*~: ^_^
 * 20:37:40: Zippertrain85: Honestly, I don't know much about this.
 * 20:37:45: ~*LilithRayn*~: ^
 * 20:38:02: Atvelonis: yeah
 * 20:38:06: Atvelonis: it's a template
 * 20:38:07: Ottoman Hold: You don't have to use it, right?
 * 20:38:15: Timeoin: no, the template would be in the template
 * 20:38:20: Atvelonis: I think it's really silly
 * 20:38:20: Bronkiin: Surely that might be longer than typing in the name?
 * 20:38:23: Timeoin: i.e. the one for OnlineCharacters ... that would be in there
 * 20:38:26: Cheatcodechamp: We used to have it in the "starting package" of article creation.
 * 20:38:38: Timeoin: so it would be useful in that sense
 * 20:38:42: Atvelonis: it causes the problems with any pages with brackets
 * 20:38:43: Ottoman Hold: So what is the disadvantages of adding it if you don't need to use it?
 * 20:38:46: Atvelonis: we have a LOT of pages with brackets
 * 20:38:51: Bluesonic1: I feel like even if we use the template on page that don't have the thing, what happens when the page eventually needs to be renamed to add a ? More work to edit the title of the article?
 * 20:38:53: Cheatcodechamp: saves a few momments, time is a values resource.
 * 20:38:53: Timeoin: it *can* save time, but creates problems with bracked pages
 * 20:38:58: RenzXVI: By my understanding, it used to be in the page by default when yu create a page.
 * 20:38:59: Atvelonis: ccc
 * 20:39:03: Atvelonis: if time is that big of an issue
 * 20:39:06: Timeoin: correct - thats why we removed it, blue :)
 * 20:39:08: Atvelonis: just don't write the name
 * 20:39:12: Atvelonis: i'll get to it
 * 20:39:14: Cheatcodechamp: if we have brackets, those pages cant use it, but others can.
 * 20:39:27: Atvelonis: that's silly
 * 20:39:35: Bluesonic1: @CCC: See what I said before about page renaming in future
 * 20:39:40: Cheatcodechamp: Now I am wasting other peoples time having to fix something that could already have been added.
 * 20:39:45: Bronkiin: I've not felt I've needed it when creating ESO character articles.
 * 20:39:53: RenzXVI: I don't think it's much of a significance to implement. It has cons.
 * 20:39:59: Bronkiin: ^
 * 20:40:13: Timeoin: Crusader asked me to bring it up, since they cant be here
 * 20:40:25: Ottoman Hold: I am still connfuse
 * 20:40:25: Atvelonis: god
 * 20:40:26: Atvelonis: damn
 * 20:40:27: Atvelonis: internet
 * 20:40:32: Timeoin: they do get that there are some negatives, but they thought it was at least worth mentioning, as there are (some) benefits :)
 * 20:40:40: Timeoin: so... the topic :)
 * 20:40:45: Bluesonic1: Yeah that's fair enough
 * 20:40:47: Ottoman Hold: What are the cons for implementing it but not using it on a page?
 * 20:41:05: Atvelonis: lack of consistency
 * 20:41:05: Timeoin: lol. who just posted ? ;)
 * 20:41:07: Cheatcodechamp: bracket pages cant use it.
 * 20:41:08: ~*LilithRayn*~: Me
 * 20:41:09: ~*LilithRayn*~: lol
 * 20:41:11: Timeoin: haha
 * 20:41:15: Wulfharth: All I can add to this is pleave avoid using the format "Whiterun (Skyrim) is a city in Skyrim" - specifically, using the barckets.
 * 20:41:18: Atvelonis: people will see that it's on those pages and start using it for everything
 * 20:41:28: Atvelonis: which is not what we want
 * 20:41:40: Bluesonic1: Yeah there's that too lol
 * 20:41:46: Ottoman Hold: I know bracket/ parentheses pages can't use it
 * 20:41:50: Wulfharth: And if it means not using PAGENAME, then its no big deal
 * 20:41:56: Atvelonis: people like Louise made literally hundreds of new pages with incorrect formatting
 * 20:41:57: Atvelonis: guys
 * 20:42:01: Ottoman Hold: But if it is implemented, you don't have to use it, right?
 * 20:42:07: Atvelonis: if time is THAT big of an issue, don't write the name
 * 20:42:10: Atvelonis: I'll write it later
 * 20:42:17: Bluesonic1: @Otto: To use it is to implement it lol
 * 20:42:27: Bluesonic1: The template already exists
 * 20:42:33: RenzXVI: I really think it's not a good idea.
 * 20:42:34: Atvelonis: really tho... it takes about three seconds to type ulfric stormcloak or whatever
 * 20:42:37: Atvelonis: I don't like the idea
 * 20:42:42: Wulfharth: PAGENAME is useful if this wiki used namespaces, which it doesnt
 * 20:42:43: Timeoin: /me wonders if Atve realises what he just volunteered for :D
 * 20:42:47: Cheatcodechamp: The template adds the name, and when it comes to the tons of articles we are missing, odds are most can use the template.
 * 20:42:51: Atvelonis: it's just plain lazy
 * 20:42:54: Ottoman Hold: Wait, it's already a template?
 * 20:42:56: Atvelonis: no other wikis do this
 * 20:43:01: Atvelonis: wikipedia doesn't
 * 20:43:01: Ottoman Hold: I thought you said it was ditched?
 * 20:43:07: Timeoin: /me fires up the spamcreate, since he's volunteered to do my work for me :D
 * 20:43:09: Bronkiin: I'd be inclined towards consistency.
 * 20:43:10: Cheatcodechamp: One mans lazy is another's smarter tool.
 * 20:43:11: Atvelonis: it is a template, we just don't use it
 * 20:43:15: Bluesonic1: It was ditched in the sense that we stopped using it Otto
 * 20:43:26: Wulfharth: Then delete
 * 20:43:30: Ottoman Hold: Ok then
 * 20:43:36: Cheatcodechamp: I think most of us have made our minds up on this.
 * 20:43:48: Atvelonis: Using for everything is as lazy as using images from UESP
 * 20:43:53: Timeoin: Anyways - we all ready to vote?
 * 20:43:57: Cheatcodechamp: All in favor of returning to the use of the pagename template?
 * 20:43:59: Atvelonis: nooooo
 * 20:44:00: Atvelonis: wait
 * 20:44:05: Cheatcodechamp: No vote
 * 20:44:05: Timeoin: Ill support, but I know how the vote will go ;)
 * 20:44:09: Wulfharth: I wouldn't say lazy - it has its uses. Just not for this wiki.
 * 20:44:33: Wulfharth: ok vote
 * 20:44:36: Cheatcodechamp: All in favor of returning to the use of the pagename template?
 * 20:44:42: RenzXVI: (-)
 * 20:44:43: Bluesonic1: Wait, Atvel asked to hold
 * 20:44:46: Atvelonis: no that's not what we're voting on
 * 20:44:47: Zippertrain85: (N)
 * 20:44:53: RenzXVI: What?
 * 20:44:54: Cheatcodechamp: What are we voting on then?
 * 20:44:54: Zippertrain85: (Neutral)
 * 20:45:05: Atvelonis: we're voting on whether to return to the use of it on non-bracketed articles
 * 20:45:05: Ottoman Hold: Halt the vote
 * 20:45:16: Ottoman Hold: Wait, what?
 * 20:45:18: Bronkiin: Same thing, surely?
 * 20:45:18: RenzXVI: There can be a choice?
 * 20:45:19: Atvelonis: also, can i just replace it when you've made the page?
 * 20:45:20: Wulfharth: ?
 * 20:45:36: Atvelonis: if we use it on Daedra Heart (Skyrim) or whatever it causes the issues
 * 20:45:38: RenzXVI: I thought it would be automatiic.
 * 20:45:51: Wulfharth: Does someone have the stats on how many pages PAGENAME appears on?
 * 20:45:59: Bronkiin: I would prefer consistency all round, personally.
 * 20:46:01: Atvelonis: it appears on none right now
 * 20:46:05: Wulfharth: because that is vital
 * 20:46:11: Wulfharth: None, so you are cool
 * 20:46:11: Timeoin: we removed it from most of them
 * 20:46:16: Cheatcodechamp: It would, but it can be added or removed. Im not for going though every article and adding it back. But it has use.
 * 20:46:16: Timeoin: we used to use it a lot
 * 20:46:17: Atvelonis: it's not a long time to type 1 name
 * 20:46:19: Wulfharth: no risk
 * 20:46:27: Zippertrain85: I think a vote is in order soon.
 * 20:46:29: Wulfharth: this is an easy choice really
 * 20:46:36: Cheatcodechamp: So, Atve, what are we calling the vote for exactly?
 * 20:46:36: Bronkiin: The original question covered it?
 * 20:46:39: Wulfharth: nuke the template to noobs cant use it
 * 20:46:52: Timeoin: we cant
 * 20:46:54: Wulfharth: and make policy to only use the actual text
 * 20:46:57: Bluesonic1: I don't think the template can actually be deleted
 * 20:46:57: Timeoin: we cant REMOVE it anyway
 * 20:47:04: Timeoin: and that's the policy atm
 * 20:47:07: Atvelonis: We're don't even know what we're voting on fully
 * 20:47:17: Bronkiin: If we vote against returning the templates, we also vote against returning it for no-bracket articles.
 * 20:47:17: Cheatcodechamp: It could be, but we would have to make sure it was not in use
 * 20:47:21: Bluesonic1: Yeah I think in terms of Wikia coding, it's classed as "magic word" or something, so we can't touch it
 * 20:47:24: Timeoin: Atv ... its going to get defeated anyways :P
 * 20:47:42: Timeoin: people seem to dislike the idea of it, which, I thought might happen :)
 * 20:47:44: Wulfharth: My point is dont use it anywhere - even on non bracketed pages because this will just cause confusion
 * 20:47:51: Timeoin: agreed
 * 20:47:51: RenzXVI: ^
 * 20:47:53: Wulfharth: especially with noobs
 * 20:47:57: Atvelonis: ^^^
 * 20:47:59: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, lets break it into smaller votes, whats the first part we need to vote on.
 * 20:48:11: Wulfharth: ok so lets vote on stooping usage of it
 * 20:48:20: Cheatcodechamp: It isnt used at all is it?
 * 20:48:22: Bronkiin: It already is stopped.
 * 20:48:28: Wulfharth: future use
 * 20:48:30: Atvelonis: If we vote no to reuse it then it's done
 * 20:48:38: Zippertrain85: Simple.
 * 20:48:40: Bronkiin: @Atv exact;y
 * 20:48:58: Atvelonis: Vote: Do we want to bring back the use of on articles?
 * 20:49:03: Wulfharth: NO
 * 20:49:04: Timeoin: (Support)
 * 20:49:05: Cheatcodechamp: (y)
 * 20:49:06: Bronkiin: (-)
 * 20:49:07: Atvelonis: (-)
 * 20:49:09: RenzXVI: (-)
 * 20:49:10: Timeoin: *only because I proposed in the first place
 * 20:49:11: Zippertrain85: (Neutral)
 * 20:49:13: Atvelonis: use ( - ) wulf
 * 20:49:16: Bluesonic1: (=) It has it's pros and cons
 * 20:49:17: Wulfharth: -
 * 20:49:20: Wulfharth: lol
 * 20:49:23: Atvelonis: tim you don't have to support it
 * 20:49:23: Wulfharth: (-)
 * 20:49:28: Timeoin: (I knew it wouldnt pass)
 * 20:49:28: Atvelonis: you can be neutral or oppose
 * 20:49:36: Timeoin: maybe I like being lazy :D
 * 20:49:38: Wulfharth: neutral is a non vote
 * 20:50:06: Ottoman Hold: Well, I say (neutral)
 * 20:50:11: Ottoman Hold: (sorry a little late)
 * 20:50:13: Cheatcodechamp: 2-3-4
 * 20:50:23: Wulfharth: so it a no?
 * 20:50:38: Zippertrain85: Seem as if.
 * 20:50:41: Zippertrain85: So, free time now?
 * 20:50:43: Wulfharth: admin?
 * 20:50:43: Timeoin: *creates a alt accounts to get the bill passed :P* ;)
 * 20:50:46: Cheatcodechamp: Its not a 2/3 majority though
 * 20:50:48: ~*LilithRayn*~: lol
 * 20:51:04: Bronkiin: So the vote doesn't pass.
 * 20:51:07: Cheatcodechamp: Atve? thoughts
 * 20:51:09: Timeoin: no, it doesnt
 * 20:51:15: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, free time
 * 20:51:17: Timeoin: and I thought it wouldnt :)
 * 20:51:20: Ottoman Hold: No change I guesss
 * 20:51:21: Timeoin: /me dances
 * 20:51:25: Wulfharth: 2 support and 4 oppose?
 * 20:51:31: Zippertrain85: I would like to bring something up, which is somewhat controversial
 * 20:51:32: ~*LilithRayn*~: Free time?! Can i ask all facebook users to do me a favor?
 * 20:51:36: Cheatcodechamp: Ill write it up, any people have stuffs?
 * 20:51:43: Bronkiin: Zip does, I think
 * 20:51:47: Atvelonis: ok
 * 20:51:47: Zippertrain85: But we should discuss it, and that's SuperSajuuk's banning.
 * 20:51:49: Wulfharth: thats a 100% disparity and usually classed as a clear consensus
 * 20:51:50: Timeoin: yeah, I have something else :P
 * 20:51:54: Zippertrain85: I've talked with Atv about this
 * 20:51:57: Cheatcodechamp: I think I know what he wants, but I guess we should talk about it
 * 20:51:59: Timeoin: user:Timeoin/Tasklist <-- just a reminder about that :)
 * 20:52:02: Zippertrain85: There's some evidence his block might be a mistake.
 * 20:52:11: Zippertrain85: And I think we should review that
 * 20:52:14: Wulfharth: 1 sec
 * 20:52:23: Wulfharth: a quick interuption...
 * 20:52:28: Wulfharth: if i may
 * 20:52:31: Zippertrain85: Sure.
 * 20:52:33: Wulfharth: On the moot page
 * 20:52:59: Wulfharth: can the person bringing up a topic to discus maybe write a wuick paragrapth to explain the issue.
 * 20:53:09: ~*LilithRayn*~: ^ I like that
 * 20:53:12: Wulfharth: I too me a second to get up to speed
 * 20:53:14: RenzXVI: I like that
 * 20:53:19: Atvelonis: not a bad idea
 * 20:53:20: Wulfharth: I didnt know what was being discussed
 * 20:53:27: Timeoin: Welcome, Noir :)
 * 20:53:30: ~*LilithRayn*~: o.
 * 20:53:31: Zippertrain85: So, I can do that with what I'm bringing up.
 * 20:53:33: Atvelonis: we do have something like that
 * 20:53:34: Wulfharth: and had to work it out and ask questions = wasting time
 * 20:53:40: Atvelonis: but it's shorter
 * 20:53:47: Wulfharth: this way we are all on the same page going in
 * 20:53:50: Atvelonis: so I do Atvelonis - moot stuff
 * 20:53:54: Atvelonis: but it's just a title
 * 20:54:00: Wulfharth: just an idea
 * 20:54:01: Atvelonis: I like your idea though wulf
 * 20:54:07: Atvelonis: do we want to vote on this?
 * 20:54:10: Bluesonic1: I quite like the idea too
 * 20:54:13: Zippertrain85: (+)
 * 20:54:14: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 20:54:17: ~*LilithRayn*~: (support)
 * 20:54:19: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 20:54:26: Timeoin: (support)
 * 20:54:35: Zippertrain85: So, if I may I can write up something for my discussion.
 * 20:54:40: Bluesonic1: (+)
 * 20:54:40: Bronkiin: (+)
 * 20:54:49: Ottoman Hold: Sorry, what was the idea again?
 * 20:54:59: I am Noir: (+)
 * 20:55:01: Atvelonis: 7-0-0
 * 20:55:01: Wulfharth: to wriute clearly what the moot topic is before hand
 * 20:55:02: Timeoin: whether or not to eat cake ;)
 * 20:55:03: Atvelonis: 8-0-0
 * 20:55:09: Bronkiin: We'll still have the free time segment though.
 * 20:55:15: Wulfharth: so new ppl like me dont waste ppls time
 * 20:55:17: Ottoman Hold: sure (+)
 * 20:55:20: Atvelonis: 9-0-0
 * 20:55:21: ~*LilithRayn*~: The cake is a lie
 * 20:55:28: Atvelonis: indeed it is
 * 20:55:40: Zippertrain85: User:SuperSajuuk has been banned from the TES Wiki for one month, the reason being that he used Alternate Accounts to bypass a chat ban put on him. However, there has been proof that has came up which might show his banning was a mistake.
 * 20:55:41: Timeoin: Wulf - you are allowed to have ideas, you know :)
 * 20:55:52: Atvelonis: hey time
 * 20:55:58: Bronkiin: @Zip, one year, I believe.
 * 20:56:00: Zippertrain85: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:SuperSajuuk
 * 20:56:00: TheKillTimeXD: Hey lol
 * 20:56:06: Zippertrain85: It got expanded to One Year.
 * 20:56:09: Wulfharth: Ok.
 * 20:56:10: Ottoman Hold: Time, you are late for an important date!
 * 20:56:14: Wulfharth: Can I start on this one.
 * 20:56:16: Wulfharth: ?
 * 20:56:18: TheKillTimeXD: Wut
 * 20:56:21: Bronkiin: Guys, on topic?
 * 20:56:22: Zippertrain85: On the page Saj's "alt" messaged him.
 * 20:56:23: Ottoman Hold: What is with Star?
 * 20:56:26: Atvelonis: Zipper, you and Shawn both admitted that he had a sockpuppet
 * 20:56:31: Timeoin: ^ this
 * 20:56:37: ShawnCognitionCP: What?
 * 20:56:37: Atvelonis: The night I banned him, you said that
 * 20:56:44: ShawnCognitionCP: That's the exact opposite of what I said.
 * 20:56:59: Zippertrain85: We were surprised he had one.
 * 20:57:07: ShawnCognitionCP: After that, I dropped out of the conversation.
 * 20:57:11: Zippertrain85: But that was BEFORE we saw the evidence against it.
 * 20:57:16: Ottoman Hold: Don't you get a warning before being banned?
 * 20:57:23: ShawnCognitionCP: Not in all cases, Ottoman.
 * 20:57:29: ~*LilithRayn*~: Are we discussing revoking the ban oor something else?
 * 20:57:37: ShawnCognitionCP: For instance, post snuff in main chat. You'll be gone immediately.
 * 20:57:39: Atvelonis: I remember one of you saying that sajuuk had that alt for a while
 * 20:57:42: Zippertrain85: I bring this up, so we can maybe talk about if this Ban against Sajuuk was valid.
 * 20:57:45: Wulfharth: ok so can I make a few observations?
 * 20:57:51: Atvelonis: yes wulf
 * 20:57:53: Wulfharth: Ok
 * 20:57:55: ShawnCognitionCP: Wasn't me, then.
 * 20:57:58: Zippertrain85: Go ahead Wulf.
 * 20:57:59: Wulfharth: so I did some looking into this
 * 20:58:02: Zippertrain85: Not me either.
 * 20:58:04: Zippertrain85: Atv
 * 20:58:06: Atvelonis: ???
 * 20:58:07: Wulfharth: ?
 * 20:58:09: Zippertrain85: Might've been someone else.
 * 20:58:15: Wulfharth: Who turn is it?
 * 20:58:17: Timeoin: one sec
 * 20:58:19: Atvelonis: I distinctly remember someone saying it
 * 20:58:19: Zippertrain85: Or maybe our words were misinterpreted
 * 20:58:23: Atvelonis: wulf talk
 * 20:58:24: Atvelonis: maybe
 * 20:58:25: Zippertrain85: Keep going Wulf, we're listening.
 * 20:58:25: Wulfharth: ...
 * 20:58:43: Wulfharth: Ok, so I was looking into the activity on community central
 * 20:58:52: Wulfharth: and the sock in question
 * 20:58:54: ShawnCognitionCP: Cringe.
 * 20:59:05: Wulfharth: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/A_Wkia_contributor
 * 20:59:27: Ottoman Hold: damn web filter :(
 * 20:59:29: Bronkiin: Yeh...
 * 20:59:29: Zippertrain85: Looks like he has activity on Naruto?
 * 20:59:32: Wulfharth: And the thing that jumped out to me was the similarity
 * 20:59:37: Zippertrain85: Why would Sajuuk use two accounts for the same Wiki?
 * 20:59:43: Atvelonis: why would anyone?
 * 20:59:46: Wulfharth: two main points
 * 20:59:46: Atvelonis: more influence
 * 20:59:47: ShawnCognitionCP: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:SuperSajuuk
 * 20:59:57: ShawnCognitionCP: A Wikia contriber left a massive message on his wall.
 * 21:00:13: Zippertrain85: Exactly.
 * 21:00:15: Wulfharth: First was Sajuuk admitted that he Kudos'd all this accounts posts on a forum topic
 * 21:00:36: ShawnCognitionCP: That's just because you and Spey are the new age rivals.
 * 21:00:37: Wulfharth: and second - the forum post was complaining about Admins, something Sajuuk does alot
 * 21:00:39: Atvelonis: guys, let wulf finish speaking
 * 21:00:47: Wulfharth: See here: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:188464
 * 21:01:04: Bronkiin: The contributer says the kudos is why he stalked Saj.
 * 21:01:13: Bronkiin: He was the only one, so he says.
 * 21:01:20: Wulfharth: I have a huge suspicion they are the same persone
 * 21:01:22: Bronkiin: So the guy looked up more about him.
 * 21:01:27: ShawnCognitionCP: Most times when he made that Admin forum posts, it was the result of a discussion with me, in PM.
 * 21:01:30: ShawnCognitionCP: Just saying.
 * 21:01:39: Zippertrain85: I mean, if WC is an editor on Naruto and so is Spey they must know each other.
 * 21:01:40: TheKillTimeXD: What are we talking about lol?
 * 21:01:45: Atvelonis: Well, their writing styles are pretty similar for sure
 * 21:01:50: Zippertrain85: So it isn't too unlikely he might've checked out his Wiki activity.
 * 21:01:52: Atvelonis: a controversial ban time
 * 21:01:55: ShawnCognitionCP: A Wikia contriber showed that he tried to contact Spey, on a wiki none of us use, thus ruling out the "for show" idea.
 * 21:01:57: TheKillTimeXD: Oh
 * 21:01:58: Wulfharth: Plus the style of writing here is very similar
 * 21:02:01: TheKillTimeXD: im out
 * 21:02:05: Wulfharth: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:SuperSajuuk
 * 21:02:07: Atvelonis: not necessarily shawn
 * 21:02:09: Zippertrain85: Well, again it's because they are both from Naruto.
 * 21:02:17: Atvelonis: I honestly wouldn't put it past Sajuuk to orchestrate that
 * 21:02:22: Zippertrain85: They call the site Administrators not Admins
 * 21:02:25: Zippertrain85: But "Sysops"
 * 21:02:35: ShawnCognitionCP: I'm taking everything said with a grain of salt, due to a lack of evidence.
 * 21:02:51: Zippertrain85: Yes.
 * 21:02:52: ShawnCognitionCP: Spey and Wulfharth don't get alone. I see no reason, without evidence, to accept one's talk on the other.
 * 21:02:53: Timeoin: there is evidence, just so you know
 * 21:02:59: Zippertrain85: It's not like either side has amazing evidence.
 * 21:03:01: Zippertrain85: Where Timeoin?
 * 21:03:02: KINMUNE: Hello there, Sapphire Lad!
 * 21:03:02: RenzXVI: No, I think the talk happened on another wiki coz he is banned from editing on this wiki.
 * 21:03:03: Sapphire Lad: yo yo yo yo
 * 21:03:03: I am Noir: o/
 * 21:03:04: ShawnCognitionCP: Show it, Tim.
 * 21:03:07: Timeoin: actually, there is
 * 21:03:14: Wulfharth: Like I said, Its just based on what I read and his own words
 * 21:03:17: ShawnCognitionCP: Anything short of a Checkuser, or proof, isn't evidence.
 * 21:03:21: Sapphire Lad: Shawn I asked a question yesterday but I had to go before you could answer
 * 21:03:22: Zippertrain85: Then please show us.
 * 21:03:26: Timeoin: Atve, you want this ?
 * 21:03:29: Atvelonis: sapphire do it in pm
 * 21:03:30: Atvelonis: hmm?
 * 21:03:35: ShawnCognitionCP: Tim, saying "there is", but not posting anything, doesn't make your debate stronger.
 * 21:03:37: Atvelonis: do I want what?
 * 21:03:43: Timeoin: you posted the ticket didnt you?
 * 21:03:51: Sapphire Lad: Oh dang
 * 21:03:51: Sapphire Lad: Sorry
 * 21:03:52: Zippertrain85: Tim
 * 21:03:53: Wulfharth: The second thing is trying to undermine Tim by going to Flightmare? Who does that?
 * 21:03:56: Sapphire Lad: Apologize
 * 21:03:58: Zippertrain85: Provide the evidence please.
 * 21:04:13: ShawnCognitionCP: That's not "undermining".
 * 21:04:16: Zippertrain85: We're willing to hear what you have to say.
 * 21:04:17: Sapphire Lad: Y'all want me to beat it for now or anything?
 * 21:04:17: ShawnCognitionCP: That's going to whom you know will respond.
 * 21:04:23: Timeoin: it wasn't me that put in the ticket to Wikia
 * 21:04:24: Bronkiin: He's allowed to ask for support, Wulf.
 * 21:04:29: ShawnCognitionCP: If I have an issue, i always go to CCC or Atvel.
 * 21:04:37: ShawnCognitionCP: Never Tim, or anyone else.
 * 21:04:42: Timeoin: and he
 * 21:04:43: Ottoman Hold: Lad, you can participate, although you are a little late
 * 21:04:48: Timeoin: he's got bad internet
 * 21:05:01: Timeoin: we put in a ticket to them to look into wheteher or not they were the same person
 * 21:05:08: Zippertrain85: Alright, since Tim is not providing the evidence let's go back and say neither side has concrete proof.
 * 21:05:10: Atvelonis: they wouldn't give anything
 * 21:05:11: Timeoin: they stated that yes, they are, 100% confirmed as the same person
 * 21:05:12: RenzXVI: IMO Sajuuk messaged a lot of people when he was banned, including me.
 * 21:05:18: Atvelonis: wait
 * 21:05:19: Atvelonis: yes
 * 21:05:22: ShawnCognitionCP: Clarify "ticket".
 * 21:05:25: Atvelonis: wrong checkuser
 * 21:05:31: ShawnCognitionCP: Checkuser?
 * 21:05:37: Atvelonis: ip
 * 21:05:39: Wulfharth: it find socks
 * 21:05:42: Zippertrain85: Wikia did that?
 * 21:05:56: ShawnCognitionCP: That's funny, because I'm very certain Spey uses a VPN, which would make a Checkluser worthless.
 * 21:05:59: ShawnCognitionCP: Checkuser*
 * 21:06:12: Zippertrain85: What is VPN?
 * 21:06:20: Bluesonic1: Isn't proxy use against Wikia's ToS? o__0
 * 21:06:20: Wulfharth: hides ur IP
 * 21:06:26: Wulfharth: Hmmmmm
 * 21:06:35: Wulfharth: someone check that
 * 21:06:36: ShawnCognitionCP: Anyone with respect for security has a VPN, Blue.
 * 21:06:40: Atvelonis: that's against the TOU isn't it? or ours
 * 21:06:42: ~*LilithRayn*~: I have a question...
 * 21:06:47: Sapphire Lad: Does it only hide IP for your PC?
 * 21:06:51: Ottoman Hold: Why does this go down when I am not on xd
 * 21:06:51: Timeoin: please ask, lilith
 * 21:06:54: ShawnCognitionCP: No, Sapphire.
 * 21:06:58: Sapphire Lad: Whole house?
 * 21:07:00: ShawnCognitionCP: Your computer uses another as a "slave" computer.
 * 21:07:11: ShawnCognitionCP: You're untraceable, and your location is hidden.
 * 21:07:18: Zippertrain85: Guys, Spey doesn't use VPN
 * 21:07:19: Sapphire Lad: Wow
 * 21:07:21: Atvelonis: "Open proxies – We do not allow editing from open proxies. When they are found, they are to be blocked indefinitely."
 * 21:07:23: ShawnCognitionCP: Any attempt to trace you, leads to the "slave/host" computer.
 * 21:07:25: Zippertrain85: I just confirmed it with him.
 * 21:07:26: ~*LilithRayn*~: If it is debatable that 100% of the issues were him, couldn't you just shorten the ban time?
 * 21:07:27: Atvelonis: if he uses VPN, that's a block
 * 21:07:34: Atvelonis: infinite
 * 21:07:36: Sapphire Lad: That's good protection
 * 21:07:37: ShawnCognitionCP: If he uses a VPN for use on this site, Atvel.
 * 21:07:42: Zippertrain85: He has never downloaded a VPN.
 * 21:08:01: ShawnCognitionCP: "Open proxies"
 * 21:08:02: ShawnCognitionCP: Hence
 * 21:08:03: ShawnCognitionCP: Don't use it here
 * 21:08:05: Wulfharth: We are arguing about possible socks - the biggest thing that stands out is the number of warning he had had for other stuff. Im surprised he was not banned already the way he acts
 * 21:08:13: Timeoin: ^
 * 21:08:16: RenzXVI: ^
 * 21:08:18: ~*LilithRayn*~: ^_^
 * 21:08:21: Wulfharth: he is a total prick
 * 21:08:24: Bronkiin: Wulf, doesn;t warrent a ban which might be unjust.
 * 21:08:26: Zippertrain85: Well, that is a different point Wul
 * 21:08:27: Wulfharth: sorry, but thats the truth
 * 21:08:28: ShawnCognitionCP: Again, Wulf, you and Spey have bias against each other.
 * 21:08:37: ShawnCognitionCP: Attacking a user whom isn't here, makes you a prick.
 * 21:08:42: Atvelonis: *who
 * 21:08:46: Wulfharth: ok, but I know he does the same
 * 21:08:46: ShawnCognitionCP: You aren't fixing anything.
 * 21:08:47: Atvelonis: guys let's keep it civil, ok
 * 21:08:52: Bluesonic1: Honestly, all of this is showing me that a lot of people are arguing over what ifs because the truth is, we're not Sajuuk. Saj contacted Flightmare on CC, this should be sorted between admins and Saj
 * 21:08:58: Timeoin: /me fights imperials :P
 * 21:09:01: Ottoman Hold: He's not a "prick" to me
 * 21:09:09: ShawnCognitionCP: Exactly, Bluesonic.
 * 21:09:10: Wulfharth: The thing is, who wants a person like that around, so who constantly complains
 * 21:09:13: Bronkiin: Saj doesn't think that's a fair fight.
 * 21:09:18: Bronkiin: Wulf, cut it out.
 * 21:09:21: ShawnCognitionCP: You're doing that right now, Wulf.
 * 21:09:25: Wulfharth: If you disagree with him he rages.
 * 21:09:26: Bluesonic1: Perhaps other admins who go on CC could also make a statement or something? But I don't think bringing this up here is a good idea
 * 21:09:32: I am Noir: o/
 * 21:09:37: ShawnCognitionCP: You're showing extreme immaturity.
 * 21:09:40: Wulfharth: yeah, but im not constant.
 * 21:09:40: Bluesonic1: Wulfharth keep it civil
 * 21:09:40: ShawnCognitionCP: Halt.
 * 21:09:46: Ottoman Hold: You and I have different experiences Wulf
 * 21:09:51: Wulfharth: sure
 * 21:09:52: ~*LilithRayn*~: Nobody is getting anywhere with this conversation. Y'all need to post the "proof" from both sides, with out debating through the middle of it, then have a civil discussion on what the best solution is based on that, with out opinions of the sitch getting in the way.
 * 21:10:01: Bluesonic1: ^
 * 21:10:03: Timeoin: wulf, yeah, keep it calm, please :(
 * 21:10:06: Ottoman Hold: ^
 * 21:10:11: Zippertrain85: The whole point of this discussion.
 * 21:10:13: Bronkiin: Zip's posted his proof.
 * 21:10:13: Zippertrain85: Is to decide
 * 21:10:15: Ottoman Hold: and ^^^^^^
 * 21:10:24: RenzXVI: WHat proof?
 * 21:10:25: Ottoman Hold: (lots of posts at once)
 * 21:10:25: Zippertrain85: Does Spey deserve his year long ban for this? Despite the lacking of evidence
 * 21:10:30: Zippertrain85: And contradictory proof.
 * 21:10:42: Zippertrain85: Let's just discuss that.
 * 21:10:44: Timeoin: wait, guys
 * 21:10:44: Bronkiin: I think a year is too long for something with as little proof.
 * 21:10:46: RenzXVI: As far as I know, there's no proof for anything.
 * 21:10:48: Timeoin: Waaaait
 * 21:10:48: Ottoman Hold: What's Spey's full username
 * 21:10:49: Timeoin: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:SuperSajuuk
 * 21:10:49: Bronkiin: Waiting.
 * 21:10:52: Wulfharth: well, my point is, he has been warned/banned in the past and he did it again, A longer block it totally warranted.
 * 21:10:53: Zippertrain85: No splitting hairs on what type of a user he was.
 * 21:10:56: Timeoin: Apparently wkia contacted wikia
 * 21:11:02: Timeoin: so, if it *is* a bogus block
 * 21:11:02: Wulfharth: And that not bias - thats wiki policy
 * 21:11:05: Timeoin: he will be unblocked
 * 21:11:10: Timeoin: So ... there's that
 * 21:11:12: Zippertrain85: Wikia doesn't always do that Tim.
 * 21:11:16: ShawnCognitionCP: I linked that earlier, Tim.
 * 21:11:19: Zippertrain85: They have a very hands off policy.
 * 21:11:25: ShawnCognitionCP: Also, wikia staff have two modes.
 * 21:11:27: ShawnCognitionCP: 1) Helpfull
 * 21:11:29: ShawnCognitionCP: 2) Useless
 * 21:11:34: Timeoin: and yes, 1 year is entirely justified
 * 21:11:35: Wulfharth: thats turw
 * 21:11:38: Wulfharth: true*
 * 21:11:43: Wulfharth: Yes tim
 * 21:11:43: Timeoin: most sockpuppet accounts get infinite bans
 * 21:11:51: ShawnCognitionCP: Yes.
 * 21:11:53: Ottoman Hold: An entire years is a little overkill for the primary tho
 * 21:11:53: Timeoin: so ... it is actually extremely lenient
 * 21:12:02: ShawnCognitionCP: We permaban every sockpuppet.
 * 21:12:02: Bluesonic1: Also wasn't the one year because of repeat offences?
 * 21:12:03: Timeoin: jigsaw got a year's ban
 * 21:12:03: Wulfharth: Even if it was not a sock - I see no probelm with a longer ban based on his past
 * 21:12:08: Sapphire Lad: Sockies
 * 21:12:08: ~*LilithRayn*~: Ok, so we need to decide if the ban time should be shortened, or stay the way it is. But if he has had issues before and been warned, I don't fully understand the issue given that he was wrong in certain aspects of this, correct?
 * 21:12:10: ShawnCognitionCP: Jigsaw's ban was unjust.
 * 21:12:15: ShawnCognitionCP: Terrible example.
 * 21:12:15: Atvelonis: sajuuk's been banned before
 * 21:12:20: Sapphire Lad: I thing I got a year for that offense
 * 21:12:28: SlayerOfTheBad: I'm back.
 * 21:12:28: ShawnCognitionCP: Deyvid banned Jigsaw for next to no reason, and it started 4 years of alts.
 * 21:12:29: Zippertrain85: Like the Kenny one.
 * 21:12:30: Ottoman Hold: Is the ban a month or a year for Sajuuk (im confused)
 * 21:12:34: Wulfharth: Year
 * 21:12:40: Timeoin: 1 year, ottoman
 * 21:12:42: Wulfharth: Based on past
 * 21:12:44: Zippertrain85: But some, like calling Ebs a bitch was more legitimate.
 * 21:12:47: Zippertrain85: You know?
 * 21:12:56: Wulfharth: Yeah, that one wow
 * 21:12:59: Bronkiin: Wulf, stop turning this into a personal opinion thing.
 * 21:13:01: Atvelonis: he's done stuff like that constantly and gotten away with it
 * 21:13:03: Ottoman Hold: He was doing good stuff before this issue, right?
 * 21:13:07: Atvelonis: because we're really, really lenient
 * 21:13:10: Wulfharth: That's a striaght up attack.
 * 21:13:17: Atvelonis: i have no problem with "edginess" or whatever
 * 21:13:22: Zippertrain85: And Spey did get a ban for that.
 * 21:13:23: Wulfharth: Edgelording
 * 21:13:25: ShawnCognitionCP: What's an "attack"?
 * 21:13:29: Atvelonis: but he has insulted a lot of people
 * 21:13:39: ~*LilithRayn*~: It sounds like the ban is warranted. They would do the same if I, or someone else, did that.
 * 21:13:42: Wulfharth: Ok, insult if thats too SJW for you
 * 21:13:50: Zippertrain85: So, this ban has less to do with the alts and more to do with Spey's overall attitude here?
 * 21:13:51: Bronkiin: I think what he said to Gold was criticism, not an insult.
 * 21:13:54: ShawnCognitionCP: And he's been insulted as well, Atvel.
 * 21:14:03: Atvelonis: that's not relevant
 * 21:14:04: ShawnCognitionCP: Remember the whole Spey/LTT thing?
 * 21:14:07: ShawnCognitionCP: No, it is.
 * 21:14:13: ShawnCognitionCP: Most of Spey's bad rep comes from rivalry.
 * 21:14:14: Zippertrain85: This is not about Spey's Chat Ban.
 * 21:14:20: Zippertrain85: This is about the one year WIKI ban.
 * 21:14:22: Atvelonis: it's still a bad rep
 * 21:14:22: Wulfharth: Correct me if im wrong, but does Sajuuk talk shit about other ppl in the main chat room?
 * 21:14:24: Atvelonis: yes
 * 21:14:35: ShawnCognitionCP: You mean what you're doing right now?
 * 21:14:39: Wulfharth: Yes
 * 21:14:49: Wulfharth: Shawn, does he do that?
 * 21:14:53: ~*LilithRayn*~: INo one is talking shit, Shawn.
 * 21:14:54: Bluesonic1: I wonder if this would be better handled as a CT where people can properly post and source their information rather than just bicker at one another?...
 * 21:15:00: ShawnCognitionCP: Very, very lightly.
 * 21:15:08: Ottoman Hold: CT for a ban?
 * 21:15:10: Atvelonis: lightly?
 * 21:15:11: Bronkiin: This is not quite bickering, Blue.
 * 21:15:13: ShawnCognitionCP: I've seen most users do it.
 * 21:15:16: Cheatcodechamp: He had a lot of rivals, he pissed a lot of people off. We cant ignore half the people who dont like him because they are "biased". At some point we need to ask why so many people have an issue with him.
 * 21:15:17: Bronkiin: Not yet anyway, lol
 * 21:15:20: Wulfharth: Most? cmon
 * 21:15:26: Atvelonis: also... it's not bias
 * 21:15:30: Atvelonis: naruto has issues with him too
 * 21:15:33: Wulfharth: Chat is kinda friendly
 * 21:15:39: Bronkiin: It doesn't matter what we think of him as a guy.
 * 21:15:40: Wulfharth: so it aint most
 * 21:15:48: SlayerOfTheBad: I doubt I have anything useful to say here since I've only been here for, what? 3, 4 days? So I'll be taking my leave. Bye.
 * 21:15:49: ~*LilithRayn*~: I have another question..
 * 21:15:59: Atvelonis: go ahead lilith
 * 21:16:07: Sapphire Lad: So we're electing a new High King?
 * 21:16:08: Sapphire Lad: jk
 * 21:16:09: Sapphire Lad: bad joke
 * 21:16:10: ~*LilithRayn*~: Is he useful to the wiki?
 * 21:16:10: Bluesonic1: Bye Slayer
 * 21:16:14: Bluesonic1: o/
 * 21:16:15: ShawnCognitionCP: Very, Rayn.
 * 21:16:17: Wulfharth: irrelevant
 * 21:16:18: SlayerOfTheBad: o/
 * 21:16:18: Cheatcodechamp: Debatable
 * 21:16:21: Kora Stormblade: Ha
 * 21:16:21: Wulfharth: totally irrelevant
 * 21:16:22: ~*LilithRayn*~: Just hear me out
 * 21:16:25: RenzXVI: I'd say debatable.
 * 21:16:29: Timeoin: for neutrality purposes, I will neglect to answer in the affirmative
 * 21:16:29: ShawnCognitionCP: Spey was involved in almost every single major consensus.
 * 21:16:30: Kora Stormblade: Three different answers in just a few seconds
 * 21:16:32: Wulfharth: he can be wiki-god
 * 21:16:34: Bluesonic1: Too subjective of a question
 * 21:16:40: Atvelonis: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:176120
 * 21:16:42: Wulfharth: break the rules - face the consequeces
 * 21:16:44: Zippertrain85: Should we make a CT about this?
 * 21:16:45: ~*LilithRayn*~: Should I rephrase?
 * 21:16:46: Atvelonis: other people have a problem with him too
 * 21:16:48: Timeoin: he wants my crown? he can have it ;)
 * 21:16:51: Zippertrain85: And not drag the Moot out?
 * 21:16:55: Atvelonis: he is... sort of good for the wiki?
 * 21:16:56: Kora Stormblade: ^
 * 21:17:00: Bluesonic1: @Zipper: Yes please :)
 * 21:17:02: Zippertrain85: This might be better as a Consensus
 * 21:17:03: Kora Stormblade: For Zips comment
 * 21:17:03: Atvelonis: he fixed a lot of links
 * 21:17:06: Bronkiin: he is definitely well intentioned.
 * 21:17:09: ShawnCognitionCP: It doesn't matter who, or how many people, have an issue with him.
 * 21:17:11: Bronkiin: I am convinced of that.
 * 21:17:14: Zippertrain85: Okay, I'm making it.
 * 21:17:16: RenzXVI: I thought we were doing this topic because there were no more topics?
 * 21:17:16: Atvelonis: also
 * 21:17:19: Atvelonis: if he left the wiki
 * 21:17:19: Wulfharth: From what I read, the old admins were useful to - and that didn't matter
 * 21:17:21: Atvelonis: why does he care?
 * 21:17:23: ShawnCognitionCP: Only thing that matters is how useful he was, and what extent he broke the rules.
 * 21:17:27: Ottoman Hold: It was an overreaction on both sides
 * 21:17:29: Bluesonic1: If a CT is made, actual evidence can be linked too and people can hear each side much easier
 * 21:17:31: Atvelonis: I'm genuinely curious... is he being a diva
 * 21:17:34: ShawnCognitionCP: The old admins abused power, thus were removed, Wulf.
 * 21:17:42: ~*LilithRayn*~: Ok, well the point I was getting to, if he is useful for the wiki, why not shorten the ban with a more dramatic warning for the next issue, is one should arise
 * 21:17:42: Bluesonic1: You want to give Saj a fair chance right?
 * 21:17:46: Cheatcodechamp: He was also toxic, people left because of the arguments in those CT's, even if good intentions where all he had, he created a lot of drama.
 * 21:17:58: ShawnCognitionCP: No, your point is entirely bias, and opinion related.
 * 21:18:02: Wulfharth: it point is its irrelevant if a user is usefull or not
 * 21:18:05: Bronkiin: Wulf's is/
 * 21:18:06: ShawnCognitionCP: You don't like Sajuuk. We understand that.
 * 21:18:08: ~*LilithRayn*~: Wulf,what is the point, because you are shooting down everything.
 * 21:18:16: Wulfharth: and you are his pal - I understand
 * 21:18:19: ShawnCognitionCP: You aren't giving a debate, you're making a statement.
 * 21:18:23: Ottoman Hold: That is completely relevent, Wulf
 * 21:18:27: ShawnCognitionCP: I have no bias towards friends.
 * 21:18:32: ShawnCognitionCP: In fact, I supported his initial ban.
 * 21:18:51: Wulfharth: He broke the rules - he paid for it
 * 21:18:55: Bronkiin: No.
 * 21:19:01: Bronkiin: We have evidence that he didn't
 * 21:19:02: ShawnCognitionCP: We don't know if he made the alt or not.
 * 21:19:05: ~*LilithRayn*~: /me face palm
 * 21:19:06: Timeoin: okay, can I make a suggestion?
 * 21:19:07: ShawnCognitionCP: Evidence is going both ways.
 * 21:19:10: Atvelonis: go ahead tim
 * 21:19:10: ShawnCognitionCP: Pay attention.
 * 21:19:20: Timeoin: If we're going to make a CT thread about whether to unban him or not
 * 21:19:21: ShawnCognitionCP: Without the sock, the ban would be much shorter
 * 21:19:26: ShawnCognitionCP: Which is WHAT we are talking about.
 * 21:19:28: Wulfharth: talking about is actions on this wiki
 * 21:19:29: Timeoin: lets take the example of his LAST ct thread
 * 21:19:29: Wulfharth: and chat
 * 21:19:31: ShawnCognitionCP: Hence this entire discussion.
 * 21:19:42: Timeoin: where he gave no examples as to what was proposed, then when people disagreed with him
 * 21:19:48: Timeoin: he renamed it "joke thread"
 * 21:19:54: Wulfharth: exactly
 * 21:20:04: ShawnCognitionCP: That's because of Wulf and Him having a small rivalry.
 * 21:20:08: Bronkiin: Agreed.
 * 21:20:09: Wulfharth: like a child - he could not handle my critisisms
 * 21:20:18: Bronkiin: It wasn't criticism/.
 * 21:20:19: Wulfharth: I was very civil
 * 21:20:22: ShawnCognitionCP: Wulf and Spey are both annoying when it comes to speaking to each other.
 * 21:20:28: Bronkiin: You called a well intentioned thread useless.
 * 21:20:34: Bronkiin: And a waste of everyone's time.
 * 21:20:37: Bronkiin: That wasn't civil.
 * 21:20:39: ShawnCognitionCP: You claimed you "shot down the whole premise", when you didn't even touch it.
 * 21:20:41: Ottoman Hold: Wulf, your not being civil righ now
 * 21:20:44: Timeoin: So bear in mind that I am inclined to take any attempts to unban him in that manner as a joke thread :P
 * 21:20:45: ShawnCognitionCP: That's just asserting yourself.
 * 21:20:48: Wulfharth: There was nothing proposed
 * 21:21:01: Atvelonis: he proposed nothing
 * 21:21:02: Cheatcodechamp: If it has no point, its kind of worthless. Why start a discussion when you have no fix to the problems you point out.
 * 21:21:03: Bronkiin: he asked for suggestions.
 * 21:21:05: Timeoin: (Since, I you know, was integral in getting the CT thing set up in the first place :D)
 * 21:21:11: Atvelonis: just said "changes"
 * 21:21:12: Bronkiin: And you shot him down.
 * 21:21:22: Bluesonic1: Why not move all this to a CT guys? :D
 * 21:21:23: Wulfharth: The point how he REACTED to our comments.
 * 21:21:30: Bronkiin: Which were personal.
 * 21:21:35: Atvelonis: you can't start a ct with no suggestions, that doesn't make sense, it just goes nowhere
 * 21:21:37: Ottoman Hold: Shall we move this to a CT (vote maybe)
 * 21:21:42: Wulfharth: "omg shut the thread everyone hates me2
 * 21:21:43: Bronkiin: So? It was a mistake.
 * 21:21:44: Ottoman Hold: true at
 * 21:21:50: ~*LilithRayn*~: >.< This is spiralling nowhere fast.
 * 21:21:51: Bronkiin: I felt Wulf's posts were personal.
 * 21:21:51: Atvelonis: he did that on his admin application too
 * 21:21:52: ShawnCognitionCP: Almost every policy consensus starts like that, Atvel.
 * 21:22:01: Timeoin: no it doesnt
 * 21:22:03: ~*LilithRayn*~: I have another question
 * 21:22:07: Atvelonis: go ahead lilith
 * 21:22:09: Ottoman Hold: ask
 * 21:22:09: Timeoin: you open a discussion threads to get ideas first
 * 21:22:19: Wulfharth: A CT is "Hey this specific point is what I'd like to talk about".
 * 21:22:19: Ottoman Hold: brb
 * 21:22:19: Timeoin: THEN go to CT when you have something concrete
 * 21:22:32: ~*LilithRayn*~: Is there a way to restrict his access to certain things so his ban time could be shortened but he could be on "probation"
 * 21:22:38: Atvelonis: I dunno lilith
 * 21:22:39: Bronkiin: So he posted it in the wrong place?
 * 21:22:40: Zippertrain85: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:880643
 * 21:22:43: Bronkiin: That was a mistake.
 * 21:22:45: ShawnCognitionCP: We put Max, Ketick, and Brandon on probation before.
 * 21:22:45: Zippertrain85: Discuss this here.
 * 21:22:47: Wulfharth: not "Give your suggestion, and only then I will give mine"
 * 21:22:48: Cheatcodechamp: Blue has said it twice, and Ill say it again. We are going nowhere with this.  If you guys want to start a CT about how wrong i was he was blocked go ahead, we are going nowhere with this.
 * 21:22:49: Bronkiin: I felt the response to it was harsh.
 * 21:23:01: Zippertrain85: The CT is made, everyone take it there.
 * 21:23:08: Bluesonic1: Thanks CCC :P And thanks Zipper!
 * 21:23:10: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, moving on.
 * 21:23:11: Wulfharth: since when are ban CT'd
 * 21:23:12: ~*LilithRayn*~: Tim, no message came through.
 * 21:23:14: Cheatcodechamp: Anything else?
 * 21:23:23: Wulfharth: its admin discretion end of the day
 * 21:23:28: Cheatcodechamp: Perhaps something less touchy, like war or politics.
 * 21:23:30: Wulfharth: Tim made the call.
 * 21:23:32: Kora Stormblade: ha
 * 21:23:33: Bluesonic1: Wulf, take it to the thread
 * 21:23:36: Wulfharth: ok
 * 21:23:41: Timeoin: oh lol
 * 21:23:53: Timeoin: on fb then :P
 * 21:23:57: ~*LilithRayn*~: Ok lol
 * 21:24:04: Zippertrain85: Again
 * 21:24:06: Zippertrain85: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:880643
 * 21:24:09: Zippertrain85: In case it was missed.
 * 21:24:24: Bluesonic1: Ok, does anyone else have any topics for the moot?
 * 21:24:31: RenzXVI: I'd post on that thread after I eat my chicken.
 * 21:24:37: ~*LilithRayn*~: Mine's not really moot related... lol
 * 21:24:44: Zippertrain85: brb
 * 21:24:45: RenzXVI: ~*LilithRayn*~ do it then.
 * 21:24:49: Atvelonis: well first does anyone have any more moot topics?
 * 21:24:53: Atvelonis: if not, then lilith, go ahead
 * 21:24:53: Cheatcodechamp: If you have someting to say go ahead
 * 21:25:05: ~*LilithRayn*~: It's insanely stupid. I will wait. lol
 * 21:25:25: Cheatcodechamp: I do have to say we have the featured image and quote articles. So those who have not voted please do so.  We have yet to get a image nomination.
 * 21:25:31: Timeoin: /me wants this to hurry up, I want to see Arya die already :P
 * 21:25:33: Timeoin: ;)
 * 21:25:42: Timeoin: plus, kids getting a tad rowdy :(
 * 21:25:48: RenzXVI: My chicken is waiting for me...
 * 21:25:56: Timeoin: Leeeeeeeroooooy :P
 * 21:25:58: RenzXVI: It's cold outside of my stomach.
 * 21:26:01: ~*LilithRayn*~: My kids movie is over..lol
 * 21:26:03: RenzXVI: It needs warmth.
 * 21:26:16: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, if we are done, are we ok with ending the moot?
 * 21:26:25: Atvelonis: wait
 * 21:26:27: Ottoman Hold: I guess so
 * 21:26:27: Bluesonic1: Didn't Lilith have something?
 * 21:26:29: Atvelonis: image and quote
 * 21:26:36: ~*LilithRayn*~: Blue, unrelated
 * 21:26:37: Atvelonis: TES:Featured Images
 * 21:26:42: Atvelonis: TES:Quote of the Week
 * 21:26:44: Bluesonic1: ok
 * 21:26:51: Atvelonis: TES:MOTMN
 * 21:26:52: Cheatcodechamp: We need a nomination, we have until I post the update tonight
 * 21:26:54: Atvelonis: member of the month
 * 21:26:58: Bronkiin: Oh, no nominations for Images.
 * 21:27:00: Bronkiin: Whoops.
 * 21:27:04: Atvelonis: someone nominate something
 * 21:27:09: Atvelonis: nominate a few things
 * 21:28:08: Bluesonic1: Hey Noir o/
 * 21:28:20: I am Noir: I have a few things.
 * 21:28:25: Ottoman Hold: Go on
 * 21:28:28: I am Noir: Can I nominate twice?
 * 21:28:37: Bronkiin: Yep.
 * 21:28:38: Ottoman Hold: I think so
 * 21:28:42: Bronkiin: I did last time.
 * 21:28:43: Bluesonic1: Yeah :)
 * 21:28:45: Atvelonis: sure, but give credit to the uploader
 * 21:29:09: Atvelonis: if it isn't you
 * 21:29:17: Atvelonis: even if it is you still write that you uploaded it
 * 21:29:26: I am Noir: I can nominate myself?
 * 21:29:27: Sapphire Lad: Is the moot over yet
 * 21:29:40: Atvelonis: for motm?
 * 21:29:40: Atvelonis: nbo
 * 21:29:42: Atvelonis: *no
 * 21:29:44: Sapphire Lad: Oh alright
 * 21:29:49: I am Noir: For the images.
 * 21:29:51: Atvelonis: but for images and quotes, you can nominate anything
 * 21:29:53: Atvelonis: yes
 * 21:30:00: I am Noir: Alright.
 * 21:30:04: Atvelonis: it's over sapphire, pretty much
 * 21:30:06: Ottoman Hold: we have time for motm
 * 21:30:09: I am Noir: I'll go get the images.
 * 21:30:14: Ottoman Hold: lets think about it
 * 21:30:14: RenzXVI: ~*LilithRayn*~ still hasn't said it.
 * 21:30:16: ~*LilithRayn*~: I have to go afk for a minute, so I am going to leave what I wanted to say here, no need for discussion or yes or no, just if y'all want.
 * 21:30:34: ShawnCognitionCP: Gotta love that advertising.
 * 21:30:42: KINMUNE: Hello there, Juoksupako!
 * 21:30:48: Cheatcodechamp: We can do a like for like with the wiki page
 * 21:30:50: I am Noir: o/
 * 21:30:51: Ottoman Hold: Hey J
 * 21:31:01: Atvelonis: hey o.
 * 21:31:09: Cheatcodechamp: And with that, are we done with the moot?
 * 21:31:21: Atvelonis: just about
 * 21:31:27: Bluesonic1: I think so?
 * 21:31:34: Bronkiin: I think so, CCC
 * 21:31:41: RenzXVI: Ok, i will eat my chicken now.
 * 21:31:47: I am Noir: Just realized my image has HUD in it.
 * 21:31:57: Bronkiin: Yeh, you don't want that, lol
 * 21:32:16: Ottoman Hold: Oh well Noir
 * 21:32:33: Cheatcodechamp: OK, we have no more topics, all in favor of ending the moot?
 * 21:32:36: Cheatcodechamp: (+)
 * 21:32:40: RenzXVI: (+)
 * 21:32:43: Bluesonic1: (+)
 * 21:32:45: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:32:56: KINMUNE: Hello there, AutoBlood!
 * 21:32:58: I am Noir: (+)
 * 21:32:59: Atvelonis: hey auto
 * 21:33:01: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, Moot is over