Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-25343239-20150319182007/@comment-26893431-20180309194822

Holy Galactic Emperor wrote: 101.100.176.95 wrote: Magic is an advantage not an overwhelming advantage. If it was that overwhelming, they wouldn't have lost an entire Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil or withdraw from Hammerfell before the point where continuing the war against Redguards was pointless.

Defensively the Summerset Isles/Alinor is impregnable unless they can somehow get another Numidium or equivalent. If the Aldmeri Dominion are equivalent to modern army/Stormtroopers with Lightsaber wielding Force users, then the Empire's army are just a little to twice as strong as a Dark Age army. By your logic the Empire will also be obliterated and there is no point in this argument because either ways they lose.

The people in Tamriel live in a world where Magic is very real. They have at least some knowledge about it. Hammerfell's culture shares similarities with Skyrim and they still managed to hold their own against Aldmeri Dominion for 5 years. Even if they have been weakened in terms of numbers, by your logic it shouldn't have been the case because with magic they should have an overwhelming advantage, the Thalmor shouldn't have to make a tactical retreat from Hammerfell.

The outcome of the skirmishes in game cannot be used as a gauge because I have seen either sides lose to the other. Although Imperials lose the most often to both Thalmor and Stormcloaks, I don't believe that is the case in Lore perspective

The Thalmor army lost in Hammerfell for the same reason the Imperials did: the desert. As for Cyrodiil, the Empire mixes soldiers with battlemages, which means that they can somewhat compete with the Thalmor on terms of magic. In fact, in the time between the Great War and the Dragon Crisis, Imperial magic organizations such as the Synod and the College of Whispers have been stockpiling magic artifacts and exploring previously-banned schools of magic such as conjuration and necromancy, which means that come the next war, they'll be able to compete with the Thalmor. They wouldn't be doing that if magic wasn't a massive advantage in war that they need to compete with the Thalmor on.

The Empire also uses magic-users in battle, so the Thalmor actually have to compete with the Imperials in terms of magic. Heck, Imperial Battlemages are a thing with the Imperials, so the Imperial armies are the equivalent of Jedi fighting alongside Clone Troopers in the Old Republic days. Of course, said army would struggle against an army of lightsaber-wielding, lightning-chucking Stormtroopers, but it wouldn't be the hopeless cause that the Stormcloaks would have. The Stormcloaks would be the equivalent of Wookiees: strong enough on their own, especially in melee, but not a full match for a proper army like the Confederacy, the Republic, or the Empire.

Hammerfell doesn't have a suspicion of magic like Skyrim does. In a complete 180 compared to their dragon-worshiping, magic-using ancestors, the Nords of Skyrim have turned their back on magic. You'd be lucky to find one, maybe two mages, in an entire hold, whereareas the average Thalmor battle squad has at least one mage or magic-using shocktroops. We've never heard of Hammerfell shunning mages or magic, unlike Skyrim, where magic has gone into such disrepair that, outside the College, there's more mages among the bandits than there are in the holds working for the official governments.

Also, again, the Redguards have the advantage of the desert climate: both the Thalmor and Imperial armies struggle to maintain themselves there, whereareas the Redguards have the home field advantage. Skyrim has no such advantages, only snowy mountains and green grass fields. Perfect for large armies to march around in. Real-life armies such as the First Crusade suffered from thirst and exhaustion in desert environments that they weren't familiar with, and the same came true for the Imperial and Thalmor armies that struggled in Hammerfell. The same can't be said for lands with snow and grass, where the Teutonic Knights had little problem subjugating pagan Lithuania, unlike their spiritual comrades who struggled on the way to Jerusalem. So no shit, the Thalmor made a tactical retreat from Hammerfell, because the climate and the ease of ambushes there made it easy for the native Redguards to cut them to pieces.

The outcome of skirmishes can be used as a gauge because it's a foretaste of things to come. And lore-wise, it'd be worse, since a Thalmor soldier shooting flames at a Stormcloak soldier would melt his armor and set him on fire. Even if the Stormcloaks wore plate mail, which they don't, they'd get cooked alive inside those armor suits. And their equipment is basic iron and steel weapons, wooden shields, and chain mail shirts that don't even cover the whole body. Compared against the Thalmor, who wear flexible plate mail from head to toe, or malachite glass armor from head to toe, while shooting flames and using either Elven weapons or conjured swords, the Stormcloaks might as well be firing spitballs at them. It's actually thanks to in-game mechanics that the Stormcloaks even stand a chance. From a realistic perspective, or a lore-wise view, they'd get screwed real hard in a war against the Thalmor. bumps in

I have to point out that the Redguards do shun magic. Destruction and Restoration are the only schools they somewhat accept. Conjuration, Alteration, and Illusion are outright despised.