The Elder Scrolls Wiki:Moot/Log 2016 January 02


 * 21:01:54: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, Moot time
 * 21:02:02: Cheatcodechamp: Who has topics?
 * 21:02:09: Bronkiin: Flight, JJ
 * 21:02:13: Bronkiin: Pinging
 * 21:02:15: Ottoman Hold: atv has something about modifications
 * 21:02:33: Cheatcodechamp: !mods
 * 21:02:52: Cheatcodechamp: Atve? You are the only one active of the three, you have topics to discuss?
 * 21:03:02: Atvelonis: Uhh sure, hold on
 * 21:03:12: Flightmare: I have no topic
 * 21:03:12: Cheatcodechamp: Ok
 * 21:03:45: Atvelonis: So my topic today deals with the modification pages that we for some reason still have
 * 21:03:48: Emperor Jarjarkine: alloo
 * 21:03:50: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Modification_(Oblivion)
 * 21:03:54: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Modification_(Skyrim)
 * 21:04:10: Atvelonis: Now, the official parts of these pages is fine, but it's the unofficial mods part that worries me
 * 21:04:30: Atvelonis: Normally we don't allow fan-made modded content of any sort, but for some reason we still have this
 * 21:04:40: Bronkiin: I'd vote for removing...
 * 21:04:45: Atvelonis: I think we should remove the fanon on these articles
 * 21:04:49: Cheatcodechamp: Those should be moved over to our Mod wiki sibling unless we have good reason to keep them
 * 21:04:55: Bronkiin: ^
 * 21:05:00: Atvelonis: Ok, vote to remove them?
 * 21:05:03: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:05:13: KINMUNE: Hello there, The Rim of the Sky!
 * 21:05:14: Flightmare: (+)
 * 21:05:21: Bronkiin: (+)
 * 21:05:21: Ottoman Hold: {support)
 * 21:05:29: Cheatcodechamp: Some of the links are brokin as well
 * 21:05:31: Ottoman Hold: Rim, we're voting to remove the mods pages
 * 21:05:32: Cheatcodechamp: (+)
 * 21:05:46: Flightmare: 'outsourcing'
 * 21:05:47: Emperor Jarjarkine: I support it too
 * 21:05:54: The Rim of the Sky: Just the third-party links?
 * 21:05:58: The Rim of the Sky: Or the entire page?
 * 21:06:05: Cheatcodechamp: i will message an admin about it, they may have the content already, but if not it wont hurt
 * 21:06:13: Bronkiin: Third party/
 * 21:06:31: Flightmare: i.e. remove the entire body of the Unofficial Mods section
 * 21:06:33: Flightmare: but keep the header
 * 21:06:34: The Rim of the Sky: I had a plan to make a page for all the approved paid mods Bethesda and Valve had
 * 21:06:39: Flightmare: and simply have a link to tes mods
 * 21:06:40: Atvelonis: You can do that, rim
 * 21:06:40: Ottoman Hold: sorry, (support)
 * 21:06:45: Shockstorm: (+)
 * 21:06:47: Atvelonis: If they're official, we keep them
 * 21:06:50: The Rim of the Sky: So if it's just un-endorsed third-party mods
 * 21:07:08: Cheatcodechamp: Whats the tally?
 * 21:07:15: Atvelonis: 7-0-0 I think
 * 21:08:22: Bronkiin: We should vote on Rim's soon too.
 * 21:08:27: Ottoman Hold: yeah
 * 21:08:37: Bronkiin: If that even needs a vote, tbh
 * 21:08:37: Ottoman Hold: 7-0-0
 * 21:09:00: Atvelonis: Do we want to vote for Rim's thing?
 * 21:09:07: Atvelonis: Add official mods to that page
 * 21:09:12: Bronkiin: hmm
 * 21:09:20: Atvelonis: Official
 * 21:09:21: Bronkiin: Well they did cease to be official pretty quickly.
 * 21:09:27: Atvelonis: idk
 * 21:09:37: Bronkiin: I think it's a nice idea though.
 * 21:09:43: The Rim of the Sky: Just for archiving
 * 21:09:45: Bronkiin: Just making sure the drawbacks are out there.
 * 21:09:55: The Rim of the Sky: Would be nice to have a page of the once availible mods
 * 21:10:04: Bronkiin: I agree.
 * 21:10:06: The Rim of the Sky: We wouldn't make seperate pages for each
 * 21:10:26: The Rim of the Sky: Maybe just put them in a table and have links to their pages on the TES mods wiki
 * 21:11:11: Cheatcodechamp: But if we don't do mods, we should be careful how far involved we get with them. If we want to work with our sibling wiki thats one thing, but hosting it ourselves is another.  Official content is our business.
 * 21:11:38: Bronkiin: He's talking about the once semi-official mods.
 * 21:11:47: Bronkiin: They're the ones we'd have.
 * 21:11:59: Atvelonis: If they're official... sure, but if they're fan-made, then no, we aren't hosting them
 * 21:12:14: The Rim of the Sky: The paid mods were just endorsed and approved by Bethesda and Valve
 * 21:12:17: The Rim of the Sky: They're not canon
 * 21:12:19: The Rim of the Sky: But
 * 21:12:26: The Rim of the Sky: They're similar to the "Fall of the Space Core" mod
 * 21:12:35: The Rim of the Sky: Which is a mod that Valve made
 * 21:12:54: Bronkiin: I'm inclined to go for listing the official mods.
 * 21:13:08: Bronkiin: Because they are related directly to Bethesda and TES.
 * 21:13:25: Bronkiin: It's worth documenting imo.
 * 21:13:46: Ottoman Hold: Honestly, the wiki is for information, not mods, so I don't think we should have many, if any at all
 * 21:13:59: Atvelonis: Put at the top of the page for the official mods
 * 21:14:04: Bronkiin: But... it is information.
 * 21:14:05: Atvelonis: Mention that they are official mods, but not canon
 * 21:14:08: Cheatcodechamp: If they are official, then yes, but we need to keep an eye out to prevent us crossing the line, and it wouldn't hurt to have links sending them to the mods wiki if they want more into.
 * 21:14:22: Bronkiin: There's now way we can cross the line.
 * 21:14:28: Bronkiin: It is a definitive list.
 * 21:14:54: Bronkiin: If we 'crossed a line', we'd be adding false information.
 * 21:15:23: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, so lets vote on it then?
 * 21:15:32: Bronkiin: (+)
 * 21:15:37: Ottoman Hold: What are we voting on? Having official mods?
 * 21:15:41: Atvelonis: (+) Listing OFFICIAL mods only, no unofficial ones
 * 21:15:41: Bronkiin: ...
 * 21:15:43: Atvelonis: on 1 page
 * 21:15:53: Ottoman Hold: I'm torn
 * 21:15:58: Ottoman Hold: (neutral)
 * 21:16:00: Cheatcodechamp: 2-1-0
 * 21:16:11: Bronkiin: Rim? dx
 * 21:16:13: Shockstorm: (+)
 * 21:16:38: Flightmare: (+)
 * 21:16:44: Cheatcodechamp: 4-1-0
 * 21:17:52: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, if that is all the votes, motion passed
 * 21:18:04: Bronkiin: I think we can assume Rim supports lol
 * 21:18:07: Cheatcodechamp: New subjects?
 * 21:18:21: Ottoman Hold: I think Atv is up next
 * 21:18:25: Cheatcodechamp: Atve?
 * 21:18:32: Atvelonis: Yeah I have one more thing
 * 21:18:46: XDragon..Spawnx: Hey CCC did you see my last PM
 * 21:18:47: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, talk while I write the moot summary
 * 21:18:56: Atvelonis: So on a lot of incomplete articles we have been using http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Template%3AExpand
 * 21:19:07: Atvelonis: There are a LOT of problems with using this template
 * 21:19:13: Atvelonis: For example, it looks awful
 * 21:19:23: Bronkiin: ^
 * 21:19:31: Bronkiin: Agree with that, lol
 * 21:19:32: Ottoman Hold: And repetative
 * 21:19:36: Ottoman Hold: continue
 * 21:19:53: Atvelonis: It used to add the category "Stub," but it's since been changed to be a *little* more specific, Skyrim: Stubs. Still, it's redundant
 * 21:19:59: Bronkiin: OH has given you permission to continue, lol
 * 21:20:10: Atvelonis: We already have a perfectly good template to represent a lack of information
 * 21:20:14: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Template%3AStub
 * 21:20:31: Atvelonis: This template looks a LOT nicer and is very specific with its categories
 * 21:20:50: Atvelonis: Articles that use Expand also use Stub, which I think is kind of pointless
 * 21:20:58: Atvelonis: It just adds a broader category and looks ugly
 * 21:21:21: Atvelonis: So I think we ought to stop using, since works far better
 * 21:21:45: Bronkiin: We'd need to make it very clear we were doing this, just so people know.
 * 21:21:48: Shockstorm: also we can use in certain sections if a list looks complete but actually isnt
 * 21:22:02: Bronkiin: Yeh, missing is a different thing really.
 * 21:22:03: Shockstorm: ie faction lists of members
 * 21:22:09: Bronkiin: Oh
 * 21:22:21: Bronkiin: Hmm hadn't thought of that.
 * 21:22:34: Shockstorm: because there's some cases where that's necessary
 * 21:23:30: Ottoman Hold: On here is the four templates we have, that I know of for this http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/User:Ottoman_Hold/Sandbox1
 * 21:23:45: Atvelonis: is used for general stubbiness
 * 21:23:53: Atvelonis: is used if there is a LOT of info missing
 * 21:23:57: Bronkiin: Yeh
 * 21:24:02: Bronkiin: That's overused I think.
 * 21:24:05: Atvelonis: is used for small amounts (usually) of data missing
 * 21:24:25: Atvelonis: Well, a lot of our articles are just a name and some headers
 * 21:24:26: Bronkiin: So the suggestion is scrap expand?
 * 21:24:28: Atvelonis: Yes
 * 21:24:31: Bronkiin: I can go with that.
 * 21:24:39: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, seems simple enough
 * 21:24:50: Bronkiin: And we'd simply empty the incomplete articles category?
 * 21:25:21: Bronkiin: By removing the cat. from the original page?
 * 21:25:23: Cheatcodechamp: Did I leave the chat?
 * 21:25:27: Bronkiin: Yep.
 * 21:25:31: Cheatcodechamp: Ok then
 * 21:25:44: Cheatcodechamp: or we still talking?
 * 21:25:44: Atvelonis: It's used for slightly different purposes
 * 21:25:51: Bronkiin: Wait a sec
 * 21:26:00: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, sorry.
 * 21:26:12: Bronkiin: Oh does, expand not add a category/
 * 21:26:12: Bronkiin: ?
 * 21:26:29: Bronkiin: I can't see it if it does...
 * 21:27:31: Shockstorm: expand adds Stub, or Game: Stub
 * 21:27:40: Atvelonis: What shock said
 * 21:27:42: Shockstorm: but not specific stubs like game: char
 * 21:27:51: Atvelonis: does a much better job of it
 * 21:28:09: Bronkiin: And I assume stub adds stub
 * 21:28:41: Ottoman Hold: also, I have seen articles with the template on it four or five times
 * 21:29:13: Bronkiin: I'm just wondering how to locate expand templates so I can remove them.
 * 21:29:25: Cheatcodechamp: Stub seems to be the better template, and this one is rather unneeded.
 * 21:29:30: Flightmare: Special:WhatLinksHere
 * 21:29:34: Atvelonis: Whatlinkshere, bron
 * 21:29:36: Atvelonis: Yeah
 * 21:29:39: Bronkiin: Yay! Thanks FLight
 * 21:29:44: Atvelonis: So vote to remove from articles
 * 21:29:46: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:29:48: Flightmare: and more specific Special:WhatLinksHere/Expand
 * 21:29:52: Bronkiin: (+) bye bbye
 * 21:29:53: Flightmare: (+)
 * 21:30:02: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere&target=Template%3AExpand&namespace=
 * 21:30:07: Flightmare: oops
 * 21:30:10: Ottoman Hold: Yes (support) (support) fully
 * 21:30:16: Flightmare: Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Expand
 * 21:30:17: Flightmare: my bad
 * 21:30:24: Shockstorm: (+)
 * 21:30:38: Atvelonis: 5-0-0 so far
 * 21:30:48: Atvelonis: CCC? Jarjar? Rim?
 * 21:31:11: Cheatcodechamp: (+)
 * 21:32:04: Cheatcodechamp: Anybody else?
 * 21:33:15: Cheatcodechamp: Then it seems we pass
 * 21:33:19: Atvelonis: 6-0-0, yeah
 * 21:33:27: Cheatcodechamp: Emperor Jarjarkine?
 * 21:33:29: Atvelonis: Alright, does anyone else have any topics they'd like to discuss?
 * 21:33:48: Emperor Jarjarkine: Yeah
 * 21:33:49: Bronkiin: I think I'm fine.
 * 21:33:51: Emperor Jarjarkine: Nothing to add this week
 * 21:34:01: Cheatcodechamp: Anybody else?
 * 21:34:05: Ottoman Hold: Mine was already discussed, so I'm good
 * 21:34:18: Emperor Jarjarkine: also, i'm updating nav templates, thx to flight
 * 21:34:26: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, then We should discuss what some goals may be for the next year
 * 21:34:41: Bronkiin: We need to be faar more editing based.
 * 21:34:46: Cheatcodechamp: Not official moot talk I guess, but lets hear what we all want to see this coming year.
 * 21:34:49: Bronkiin: But that's less of a goal than an attitude.
 * 21:35:01: Ottoman Hold: Online expansion
 * 21:35:07: Bronkiin: Ongoing.
 * 21:35:07: Cheatcodechamp: I agree, last year was more talk and policy then editing, something that we are supposed to be all about
 * 21:35:30: Cheatcodechamp: ESO needs more players, I started it a while back, but I dont own the game.
 * 21:35:35: Shockstorm: maybe make more connections with other language versions of this wiki
 * 21:35:36: The Rim of the Sky: I'm planning on starting a project of adding every building in Orsinium
 * 21:35:40: Cheatcodechamp: We need to get ESO players to spend some time here.
 * 21:35:42: Bronkiin: Maybe we make it a rule that you need to be editing to vote on policy.
 * 21:35:54: Bronkiin: Yeh, ESO interest's a problem.
 * 21:35:57: Atvelonis: I talked about some stuff I want us to be doing next year
 * 21:35:57: Atvelonis: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Atvelonis/New_Year;_New_Goals
 * 21:35:58: Shockstorm: would make sense
 * 21:36:07: Atvelonis: I like that idea, bron
 * 21:36:07: Cheatcodechamp: @Shock, We have some connection, but more would not hurt. We should help them as much as possible,
 * 21:36:20: Ottoman Hold: I might be able to start, but slow at first since I don't have the most time right now
 * 21:36:28: Bronkiin: Most people who only vote on policy, but don't edit, are trouble.
 * 21:36:33: Bronkiin: Wulf, Saj, BS etc.
 * 21:36:38: The Rim of the Sky: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline
 * 21:36:54: The Rim of the Sky: Highest listed wiki on the sidebar
 * 21:37:27: Flightmare: Good point
 * 21:37:31: Cheatcodechamp: It is wrong to have people who vote on matters that dont effect them, we shouldnt let others effect us any more then they need to.
 * 21:37:31: Flightmare: our portal pages are awful
 * 21:38:01: Flightmare: The reddit pages link to The_Elder_Scrolls_Wiki/Portal/Online which I never liked
 * 21:38:09: Atvelonis: Make it more like the Skyrim one
 * 21:38:31: Atvelonis: Want me to unlock them shock?
 * 21:38:37: Shockstorm: yeah
 * 21:38:47: Shockstorm: to autoconfirmed users
 * 21:39:04: Flightmare: They can be expanded, as they are no longer size-restricted
 * 21:39:18: Flightmare: all portals look like this because we had size constraints
 * 21:39:38: Flightmare: there could be more useful information in there, or simply change the lay-out
 * 21:39:43: Flightmare: it doesn't matter anymore
 * 21:39:53: Atvelonis: Oh, actually, I do have another topic
 * 21:40:02: Bronkiin: Yeh, we're discovering new topics now xd
 * 21:40:03: Atvelonis: Tim wanted to talk about this but wasn't able to show up this time
 * 21:40:23: Cheatcodechamp: Then lets talk about it
 * 21:40:40: Ottoman Hold: ...
 * 21:41:00: Atvelonis: So we do have a lot of really good articles that can't quite get to GA because they're too short
 * 21:41:29: Atvelonis: The solution to this would be to add what is called "Comprehensive articles"
 * 21:41:52: Atvelonis: Wookieepedia does this actually, that's where Tim got the idea from
 * 21:41:52: Atvelonis: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Comprehensive_articles
 * 21:42:14: Bronkiin: I like that idea.
 * 21:42:19: The Rim of the Sky: Something like Mantella would fit in that category, right?
 * 21:42:32: Bronkiin: Having a little badge saying it's comrehensive makes it look nicer to readers too.
 * 21:42:43: Atvelonis: Yes, exactly rim
 * 21:42:49: Atvelonis: I agree bron
 * 21:43:01: Atvelonis: It would pretty much be like GA but for shorter articles
 * 21:43:21: Bronkiin: What reasons would there be to oppose?
 * 21:43:29: Bronkiin: In theory.
 * 21:43:36: Cheatcodechamp: Would they be treated like GA? I mean, are we talking about them being potential featured articles?
 * 21:43:53: Atvelonis: No, they would be stuck at CA unless they become a lot bigger
 * 21:43:55: Atvelonis: Which is unlikely
 * 21:44:04: Atvelonis: They are basically GA that are too short to be GA
 * 21:44:08: Atvelonis: Or FA, subsequently
 * 21:44:26: Atvelonis: They're also a notice to let readers know what they're reading is fully fleshed out and accurate and all
 * 21:44:33: Atvelonis: Which could be useful like bron said
 * 21:44:46: Cheatcodechamp: Then I see no problem with it
 * 21:44:56: The Rim of the Sky: I'll give my personal explanation
 * 21:45:03: Bronkiin: Yep.
 * 21:45:11: Cheatcodechamp: We have the two articles we just denied for GA, we could look at those being tagged for this.
 * 21:45:18: Ottoman Hold: aka GA rejects
 * 21:45:24: The Rim of the Sky: Comprehensive articles are pages that have all the info and sources available
 * 21:45:29: The Rim of the Sky: But they are fairly short
 * 21:45:36: The Rim of the Sky: And while it would be nice for them to be bigger
 * 21:45:51: The Rim of the Sky: We do not have any further sources that could expand them
 * 21:46:12: The Rim of the Sky: And as of the present they are as good as they can currently get
 * 21:46:24: The Rim of the Sky: Like Lyg
 * 21:46:28: The Rim of the Sky: It's fairly short
 * 21:46:49: The Rim of the Sky: But it has all the info about the continent we have from the sources
 * 21:47:12: Ottoman Hold: gotcha, articles that are pretty much as large as they can get but are too short for GA
 * 21:47:49: Cheatcodechamp: It seems like something worth doing.
 * 21:48:01: Cheatcodechamp: Any matters we need to flesh out before voting?
 * 21:48:06: Bronkiin: Hmm
 * 21:48:10: Atvelonis: I don't think so?
 * 21:48:20: Atvelonis: (+)
 * 21:48:24: Bronkiin: I mean, no one votes for GA
 * 21:48:26: Cheatcodechamp: (+)
 * 21:48:33: Atvelonis: We can figure that out after
 * 21:48:34: Cheatcodechamp: They should, we have nominations
 * 21:48:34: Bronkiin: Well (+) I do support.
 * 21:48:39: Atvelonis: 3-0-0
 * 21:49:21: Cheatcodechamp: Anybody else?
 * 21:49:30: Atvelonis: Jarjar? Flight? Otto? Shock? Rim?
 * 21:49:30: Bronkiin: Rim?
 * 21:49:52: Shockstorm: (+)
 * 21:49:56: Atvelonis: 4-0-0
 * 21:50:14: Atvelonis: Guys, set pings, seriously
 * 21:50:16: Atvelonis: Ugh
 * 21:50:20: Atvelonis: !mods
 * 21:50:54: The Rim of the Sky: (+)
 * 21:50:59: Flightmare: (+)
 * 21:51:30: Ottoman Hold: whoops, (support)
 * 21:51:41: KINMUNE: Hello there, Mrs.Smiley!
 * 21:51:44: Atvelonis: 7-0-0
 * 21:51:46: Atvelonis: Anyone else?
 * 21:51:46: Atvelonis: hey
 * 21:51:52: Ottoman Hold: Hi Smiley
 * 21:51:56: Mrs.Smiley: Hi
 * 21:52:28: Mrs.Smiley: How is everyone? And happy new year
 * 21:52:45: Ottoman Hold: thanks, we're doing the moot right now
 * 21:53:01: Bronkiin: I won't raise this as a topic, but I think the idea of only those who edit can vote on policy should be fleshed out/considered.
 * 21:53:22: Bronkiin: You know, will it extent to CTs etc...?
 * 21:53:31: Bronkiin: Considerations like that.
 * 21:53:34: Atvelonis: Make it a CT
 * 21:53:41: Bronkiin: But that's the thing
 * 21:53:49: Bronkiin: that's where all those who don't edit vote xd
 * 21:53:55: Bronkiin: Like Shawn, Wulf, BS
 * 21:54:08: Ottoman Hold: People like that sometimes make good points
 * 21:54:12: Ottoman Hold: ...sometimes...
 * 21:54:29: Mrs.Smiley: what is the moot regarding, if I may ask?
 * 21:54:29: Bronkiin: I'll talk it over with Atv over the course of the week.
 * 21:54:38: Cheatcodechamp: It is an issue, countrys dont let non citizens vote, should we allow passive members or guest decide our fate?
 * 21:54:44: Bronkiin: Generally wiki stuffs, smiley.
 * 21:54:49: Bronkiin: I do agree CCC.
 * 21:54:57: Cheatcodechamp: A Moot is a weekly meeting, we are talking voting policy right now
 * 21:55:25: Ottoman Hold: For instance, Smiley would be exempt from the moot, if what you say is true
 * 21:55:28: Bronkiin: It strikes me, looking back over our history, that a lot of disputes were caused by those with no interest in actually editing.
 * 21:55:31: Atvelonis: Well, no
 * 21:55:33: Bronkiin: THey wouldn't be exempt.
 * 21:55:35: Atvelonis: The moot is different I think
 * 21:55:38: Bronkiin: They could participate.
 * 21:55:44: Bronkiin: They can comment.
 * 21:55:46: Bronkiin: Just not vote.
 * 21:55:48: Mrs.Smiley: i suppose it should be dependent on the seriousness of the matter needing a vote. if it is a minor issue, have an open "vote" and use it as a decision basis.
 * 21:55:50: Cheatcodechamp: Here in moot the policy is people can vote, but guest have never voted, they have all said when asked that they dont feel it is right to vote when they are not active members
 * 21:56:10: Bronkiin: Yep.
 * 21:56:20: Ottoman Hold: It's more of an honor system thing
 * 21:56:24: Bronkiin: Hmm
 * 21:56:26: Bronkiin: kinda
 * 21:56:36: Ottoman Hold: People who drag themselves into a pointless dispute show their chartacter
 * 21:56:48: Bronkiin: But we have no means of excluding them atm.
 * 21:56:55: Bronkiin: I think the principle is a good one.
 * 21:56:59: Ottoman Hold: Especially people who show up for no reason, like the people you mentioned, true
 * 21:57:10: Bronkiin: Exactly, CCC
 * 21:57:22: Bronkiin: I'll make sure most admins agree with it before I put it out.
 * 21:57:23: Mrs.Smiley: i do have a question though, and cannot find an answer anywhere
 * 21:57:41: Ottoman Hold: It's too loose of an idea, I think someone needs to make a policy about it and present it next time
 * 21:57:50: Atvelonis: Go ahead smiley, we can help you out
 * 21:58:05: Bronkiin: Ottoman... that's exactly what's been said.
 * 21:58:09: Bronkiin: At least three times.
 * 21:58:23: Bronkiin: It's also been said that it won't be presented here, it'll be a CT...
 * 21:58:28: Bronkiin: lol, are you following?
 * 21:58:37: Ottoman Hold: Yes I am
 * 21:59:15: Ottoman Hold: All I am saying is tread costly, for a CT about it, with the wrong words, will create a flame war
 * 21:59:25: Ottoman Hold: meant carefully
 * 21:59:41: Bronkiin: Well, that wasn't what you said, but oh well.
 * 21:59:46: Atvelonis: Well, on the topic of major decisions
 * 21:59:48: Atvelonis: hey ralvz
 * 22:00:02: Atvelonis: What are we going to do about FA/GA/CA votes?
 * 22:00:11: Atvelonis: They get like... 4 votes at most
 * 22:00:21: Mrs.Smiley: ty, what would cause a character to have magicka damage, staminadamage, and carry weight damage without being diseased, cursed, ect... i have already been to the temple, cured diseases, whole nine yards, gotten naked, quit, reloaded, went to a previous save...
 * 22:00:24: Bronkiin: It will have to be admin choice or something.
 * 22:00:37: Bronkiin: hmm
 * 22:00:38: Atvelonis: tbh I think that would be more efficient bron
 * 22:00:42: Bronkiin: Yeh.
 * 22:00:47: Atvelonis: Community doesn't really seem to care?
 * 22:00:48: Bronkiin: Maybe extend it to patrollers.
 * 22:00:49: Atvelonis: I dunno
 * 22:00:54: Ottoman Hold: All the people who tend to vote on those are active users, for the most part
 * 22:00:59: Cheatcodechamp: He is right, if we said it wrong, it would come off as saying we want to limit who voters to chosen people, that is not the full intention, but some will take it as a hostile intention.
 * 22:01:03: Atvelonis: @Smiley: that's odd
 * 22:01:21: Atvelonis: Do you have any mods installed?
 * 22:01:22: Cheatcodechamp: More then not Otto, but CT't become larger matters, remember the last one?
 * 22:01:27: Bronkiin: I'm aware CCC, for like the fourth time now, I'll formulate it over the course of the week.
 * 22:01:39: Cheatcodechamp: Im not trying to repeat, I am sorry :P
 * 22:01:41: Mrs.Smiley: i thought so too. i managed a temp fix, but i don't want it to happen again, character is at a lvl 42
 * 22:01:41: Bronkiin: I'll also make sure all the admins are in agreement with it first.
 * 22:01:48: Bronkiin: kk CCC :D
 * 22:02:05: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, lets come back to this in a week then? make sure we have it right
 * 22:02:13: Bronkiin: I won't raise it at the moot.
 * 22:02:19: Atvelonis: Are you on PC?
 * 22:02:21: Bronkiin: I'll talk to you all individually.
 * 22:02:22: Mrs.Smiley: yes
 * 22:02:45: Atvelonis: ok, now this might only apply to spells but it's worth a shot, try typing in player.dispelallspells to the console
 * 22:03:03: Mrs.Smiley: i tried that also, lol, didn't have anything to dispel
 * 22:03:21: Bronkiin: Anyway, GA's etc...
 * 22:03:43: Atvelonis: @Smiley: no idea then... maybe make a forum post about it? Azura knows his stuff
 * 22:03:45: Atvelonis: Special:Forum
 * 22:03:48: Atvelonis: Skyrim board
 * 22:03:52: Mrs.Smiley: alright thank you!
 * 22:03:58: Bronkiin: Yeh, if in doubt, ask Azura, lol
 * 22:04:02: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, so that is a matter we cannot solve with the moot then, do we have anything else to discuss?
 * 22:04:13: Bronkiin: GA votes, CCC
 * 22:04:13: Atvelonis: I don't think so
 * 22:04:15: Atvelonis: Oh
 * 22:04:15: Bronkiin: ...
 * 22:04:16: Atvelonis: Yeah
 * 22:04:21: Atvelonis: duh
 * 22:04:23: Bronkiin: You raised it Atv, xd
 * 22:04:24: Atvelonis: hey camlorn
 * 22:04:29: Atvelonis: I got distracted lol
 * 22:04:33: Ottoman Hold: and Featured picture and quote, I think
 * 22:04:39: Atvelonis: Yeah... that too, otto
 * 22:04:44: Atvelonis: No one seems to vote on those
 * 22:04:56: Bronkiin: We used to always cover them in the Moot.
 * 22:04:57: Atvelonis: doesn't hurt to make nominations, but I'm thinking that the staff should just pick one privately
 * 22:05:10: Bronkiin: I mean FQ and Image
 * 22:05:15: Bronkiin: And I agree Atv.
 * 22:05:46: Bronkiin: We're talking about showcasing our most professional articles. The staff are the best people to sort that out.
 * 22:06:50: Atvelonis: Even then though, I have a feeling it would just be me and tim
 * 22:06:58: Atvelonis: We're the only ones who seem to make nominations at all
 * 22:07:15: Bronkiin: Rim does occasionally.
 * 22:07:19: Atvelonis: That's true
 * 22:07:36: Bronkiin: Maybe it could be a Moot thing? Like we do with maintenance occassionally.
 * 22:07:58: Bronkiin: Voting in moot can work well with these things, because you have everyone already in one place/
 * 22:08:12: Atvelonis: Perhaps
 * 22:08:43: Bronkiin: Any thoughts, CCC?
 * 22:09:38: Cheatcodechamp: I dont want the moot to be the main doing of all deeds, the reason we have the pages is partly so people can nominate them.
 * 22:09:58: Cheatcodechamp: It also gives us more wiggle room to handle other items.
 * 22:10:03: Bronkiin: Ok
 * 22:10:12: Bronkiin: that lends more to Atv's proposal then.
 * 22:10:13: Bronkiin: Maybe
 * 22:10:22: Ottoman Hold: I gotta go, sorry to leave in the middle
 * 22:10:53: Bronkiin: But tbh only staff nominate anyway soo... xd
 * 22:11:55: Ottoman Hold: your proposal is to limit voting to only staff for GAs, right?
 * 22:12:21: Atvelonis: CA/GA/FA, but yes
 * 22:12:28: Bronkiin: Yeh, all three.
 * 22:12:32: Atvelonis: Oh I need to add CA to TES:HUH?
 * 22:12:32: Bronkiin: Well I say limit
 * 22:12:33: Bronkiin: like
 * 22:12:40: Bronkiin: its only them anyway.
 * 22:13:04: Ottoman Hold: I would have to disagree, this would disclude people like Shock, who have done a lot for the wiki but aren't staff
 * 22:13:09: Bronkiin: It would be a case of handpicking articles instead of the limited pseudo-democracy we have now.
 * 22:13:18: Bronkiin: But Shock doesn't vote anyway.
 * 22:13:21: Shockstorm: haha
 * 22:13:40: Shockstorm: I just forget about those things
 * 22:13:44: Ottoman Hold: i've seen him vote once or twice, and anyway it' not all staff, just mostly currently
 * 22:14:00: Atvelonis: The only reason ANYONE remembers them is because I bug them on chat to vote
 * 22:14:13: Bronkiin: It would cease to be a democratic process basically, because it is ineffective as it is.
 * 22:14:17: Ottoman Hold: The wikly update reminds me, sometimes
 * 22:14:21: Atvelonis: Someone makes the nomination... then no one votes
 * 22:14:26: Bronkiin: Yep.
 * 22:14:31: Cheatcodechamp: I cant say I am a fan of limiting the vote to staff, if nobody votes its on them, but limits to staff only can be seen, and probably is, the wrong move.
 * 22:14:33: Bronkiin: Most only have like two votes atm, lol
 * 22:14:40: Bronkiin: It would cease to be a vote.
 * 22:14:44: The Rim of the Sky: cya guys
 * 22:14:47: Ottoman Hold: No need for a limit
 * 22:14:51: Atvelonis: bye rim
 * 22:15:01: Atvelonis: The problem is that no one votes on them
 * 22:15:03: Bronkiin: It isn't a limit, it's just a change in how they're chosen.
 * 22:15:14: Bronkiin: It makes it the choice of the admins.
 * 22:15:16: Atvelonis: The problem is also that it isn't even subjective
 * 22:15:22: Bronkiin: ^^^
 * 22:15:22: Atvelonis: It's just looking at the rules
 * 22:15:26: Bronkiin: Exactly.
 * 22:15:38: Bronkiin: It doesn't need a vote to see if something is a GA.
 * 22:16:04: Bronkiin: Or FA etc...
 * 22:16:14: Bronkiin: It needs experienced members who know what a GA is.
 * 22:16:24: Bronkiin: A vote isn't necessary, just a discussion and a choice.
 * 22:16:36: Cheatcodechamp: Nobody may vote now, but down the road things can change. I just dont want to see us having the same problems we have had in the past.
 * 22:16:49: Cheatcodechamp: Im just saying we need to be careful.
 * 22:16:55: Bronkiin: We do, I agree.
 * 22:17:03: Bronkiin: But this isn't something worth voting on.
 * 22:17:10: Bronkiin: This isn't some right for us wikians.
 * 22:18:09: Atvelonis: hey kora
 * 22:18:17: Ottoman Hold: I out, but I'm personally against this, not by that much tho
 * 22:18:22: Kora Stormblade: laptop lost all internet connection lol
 * 22:18:25: Kora Stormblade: is moot over?
 * 22:18:30: Bronkiin: Nope.
 * 22:18:32: Bronkiin: Almost.
 * 22:18:33: Ottoman Hold: I'll go with your opinions, I gues
 * 22:18:34: Kora Stormblade: Oh yay :P
 * 22:18:42: Atvelonis: I feel the same way as bron
 * 22:18:48: Atvelonis: It's just so sloooooow, these votes
 * 22:18:52: Kora Stormblade: Bron what did I miss?
 * 22:18:56: Bronkiin: Not much.
 * 22:18:58: Kora Stormblade: Ah ok
 * 22:19:00: Kora Stormblade: good :P
 * 22:19:05: Atvelonis: and I can only nominate like 2 articles a month because any more and people wouldn't even bother voting, just ignore it
 * 22:19:08: Bronkiin: This is on whether it's worth having a vote for GA etc..
 * 22:19:19: Kora Stormblade: hmm
 * 22:19:26: Bronkiin: Having this pseudo-democracy slows down progress.
 * 22:19:36: Kora Stormblade: xD
 * 22:19:37: Bronkiin: They're not voicing an opinion by voting.
 * 22:19:41: Bronkiin: They're stating a fact.
 * 22:19:46: Kora Stormblade: bah
 * 22:19:48: Bronkiin: Either that it is or is not worthy.
 * 22:20:04: Bronkiin: Atv!!! xd
 * 22:20:20: Kora Stormblade: *brings out the fish crumbs*
 * 22:20:25: Kora Stormblade: He better come back for these
 * 22:20:41: Bronkiin: Maybe save it for next weeks Moot. I'm not sure there are enough people for a proper vote atm, CCC.
 * 22:20:46: Kora Stormblade: YUS
 * 22:20:48: Kora Stormblade: It worked!
 * 22:20:50: Bronkiin: Yaa
 * 22:21:02: Kora Stormblade: (dance)
 * 22:21:17: Kora Stormblade: yea I agree with bron on that one
 * 22:21:36: Bronkiin: Voting on a GA though is like voting on whether an article is a stub.
 * 22:21:42: Cheatcodechamp: I must admit I am distracted at this time.
 * 22:21:45: Bronkiin: Or whether an image is high or low quality.
 * 22:21:49: Bronkiin: Well, Ok.
 * 22:22:02: Cheatcodechamp: So how are we proceeding?
 * 22:22:11: Cheatcodechamp: Do we want to resume this next week?
 * 22:22:19: Bronkiin: I think so.
 * 22:22:21: Atvelonis: Sure
 * 22:22:26: Atvelonis: We'll think it over
 * 22:22:29: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, all in favor of ending this weeks moot?
 * 22:22:31: Bronkiin: We simply don't have enough contribute atm.
 * 22:22:47: Kora Stormblade: aye
 * 22:23:03: Bronkiin: *contributing, I mean
 * 22:23:07: Bronkiin: To the discussion.
 * 22:23:14: Bronkiin: It's basically me and Atv ranting xd
 * 22:23:17: Bronkiin: So yeh, I vote to end.
 * 22:23:26: Cheatcodechamp: Ok, this weeks ranting is over