User blog comment:SajuukKhar/Lorkhanic Rambling/@comment-13446185-20131018021236/@comment-3573184-20131018101324

And I will have to disagree with you.

While the divine pantheon started off as the eight, only to become Nine when Talos ascended, the reason why it was called the eight divines is because Lorkhan was dead or missing, unlike the other gods which are considered "alive".

Lorkhan is never counted, in any pantheon, because of his missing nature. Even the Nords themselves considered their pantheon to be leaderless, despite Shor being the leader, because he is dead. However, even though he is dead, and not counted, he is still worshiped.

Also, Ysmir is, again, not a divine, even if you don't count Lorkhan, the book "the dragon war" clearly stated the totems are the DIVINES, which Ysmir is not one of.

Herma-Mora and Maloch are just as likely to be the fox as Ysmir is, if anything, they are more likely because they are actual gods, if not daedra.

Also, Alkosh is not subgradiant to Akatosh. Akatosh, Auri-El, Auriel, Alkosh, and Tosh Raka, are mirror brothers, equals.

The only one who can be considered subgradiant is Alduin. However, even that is a matter of doublespeak, as Shor son of Shor shows Shor is the son of Lorkhan who is the son of Shor, just as Aka is the son of Ald who is the son of aka.