I've always been confused by why pretty much anyone would like or support the Thalmor, or at least try to justify their actions. So to anyone who thinks this way: why do you like the Thalmor?
I've always been confused by why pretty much anyone would like or support the Thalmor, or at least try to justify their actions. So to anyone who thinks this way: why do you like the Thalmor?
Pupdude wrote:
Azura didn't care for the Dragon Crisis or the Oblivion Crisis.
Probably a good reason for each. Pretty sure Azura knew the power of Mehrunes Dagon and feared retribution if she sided with the mortals. As for the Return of Alduin, beats me, she might have been more concerned about her star being defiled, which makes sense, because that might have threatened her power. In other words, she might have had more pressing concerns, which is a valid reason in my eyes. To be fair, she's probably more concerned about Morrowind in particular than the entirety of Tamriel, considering she's worshipped there.
Nope. Dagon isn't even the top dog among the Daedra. If he moved against Azura, the other Daedric princes wouldn't just sit on their ass. Also, once I got Azura's Star purified, why doesn't she help us out against the Dragon Crisis? Once I put her infected followers to rest, why didn't she help us out against Mehrunes Dagon? At least Meridia took an active role during the Planemeld in ESO.
Those aren't valid reasons. Daedric princes like Azura are more powerful than Aedric gods and yet you complain about the latter doing less while giving the former a pass, even though the latter aren't only massively weakened by their creation of Nirn, but are also busy keeping the Daedra out. So yes, I was right-you're putting Daedric princes like Azura on a pedestal while complaining too much about the Aedric gods who are already busy with a lot of things.
Also, as you said, Azura was the main worship focus of the Dark Elves, which probably explains why the Aedra didn't intervene with Dagoth Ur. Heck, the Aedra took the sides of the humans against the Ayleids because the latter were Daedra-worshipers. The Dark Elves worship the likes of Azura, Vivec, and Almalexia. Why would the Aedra help them?
Pupdude wrote:
Azura didn't care for the Dragon Crisis or the Oblivion Crisis.
Nope. Dagon isn't even the top dog among the Daedra. If he moved against Azura, the other Daedric princes wouldn't just sit on their ass. Also, once I got Azura's Star purified, why doesn't she help us out against the Dragon Crisis? Once I put her infected followers to rest, why didn't she help us out against Mehrunes Dagon? At least Meridia took an active role during the Planemeld in ESO.
Those aren't valid reasons. Daedric princes like Azura are more powerful than Aedric gods and yet you complain about the latter doing less while giving the former a pass, even though the latter aren't only massively weakened by their creation of Nirn, but are also busy keeping the Daedra out. So yes, I was right-you're putting Daedric princes like Azura on a pedestal while complaining too much about the Aedric gods who are already busy with a lot of things.
Also, as you said, Azura was the main worship focus of the Dark Elves, which probably explains why the Aedra didn't intervene with Dagoth Ur. Heck, the Aedra took the sides of the humans against the Ayleids because the latter were Daedra-worshipers. The Dark Elves worship the likes of Azura, Vivec, and Almalexia. Why would the Aedra help them?
Look, I was just saying that Azura MIGHT be an exception. I never said I was certain of it. So, yeah, the only exception to the rule of the Et'Ada sucking is Sheogorath, for memetic reasons only. In reality, Sheogorath is extremely unpredictable, and quite honestly very graphic about his death threats (and, let's be honest, that makes him even cooler).
And isn't this debate similar to the whole reason behind the entire thread? The Aldmeri Dominion and Thalmor think putting Talos on a pedestal labeled "The Ninth Divine" is wrong, whereas the Empire thinks the Aldmeri/Thalmor need to chill. Quite frankly, all sides suck, and need to get over it.
So, my side in Great War II would be the side of Progress, and here's my terms for a treaty:
Each race become their own government (Khajiit have the Elsweyr Confederacy, Imperials have the Imperial Empire, Skyrim becomes the Nordic Monarchy or Nordic Council, Altmer have the Aldmeri Dominion, etc.)
Skyrim gains Bruma and the surrounding areas, up to the Great Forest
Hammerfell gain Chorrol and most of the Colovian Highlands, up to the Great Forest
Morrowind gains Cheydinhal and the surrounding areas, up to the imaginary line that completes the circle the Great Forest would make
Black Marsh gains Bruma and the surrounding areas, up to where the Upper Niben River meets the Niben Bay
Elsweyr gains Leyawiin, the surrounding areas, and the areas directly north of current-day Elsweyr, up to the Great Forest
Valenwood gains the area to their north, up to the Great Forest
Cyrodiil loses the Imperial City, the Great Forest, and the areas and cities mentioned above; Their capital becomes Kvatch, having been reconstructed after the Oblivion Crisis, and their remaining non-capital cities are Skingrad and Anvil
The United Empires of Tamriel (UET) is formed (Think UN)
The Imperial City is renamed to Heartland City, and the it and the surrounding area is referred to as the Heartlands
The Heartlands become a neutral ground under the rule of a local government elected by the UET
The UET meet in Heartland City
The Aldmeri Dominion and Imperial Empire suck it up and stops trying to enforce their world views on other people; This applies to all other empires, too
Pupdude wrote:
Pupdude wrote:
Azura didn't care for the Dragon Crisis or the Oblivion Crisis.
Nope. Dagon isn't even the top dog among the Daedra. If he moved against Azura, the other Daedric princes wouldn't just sit on their ass. Also, once I got Azura's Star purified, why doesn't she help us out against the Dragon Crisis? Once I put her infected followers to rest, why didn't she help us out against Mehrunes Dagon? At least Meridia took an active role during the Planemeld in ESO.
Those aren't valid reasons. Daedric princes like Azura are more powerful than Aedric gods and yet you complain about the latter doing less while giving the former a pass, even though the latter aren't only massively weakened by their creation of Nirn, but are also busy keeping the Daedra out. So yes, I was right-you're putting Daedric princes like Azura on a pedestal while complaining too much about the Aedric gods who are already busy with a lot of things.
Also, as you said, Azura was the main worship focus of the Dark Elves, which probably explains why the Aedra didn't intervene with Dagoth Ur. Heck, the Aedra took the sides of the humans against the Ayleids because the latter were Daedra-worshipers. The Dark Elves worship the likes of Azura, Vivec, and Almalexia. Why would the Aedra help them?
Look, I was just saying that Azura MIGHT be an exception. I never said I was certain of it. So, yeah, the only exception to the rule of the Et'Ada sucking is Sheogorath, for memetic reasons only. In reality, Sheogorath is extremely unpredictable, and quite honestly very graphic about his death threats (and, let's be honest, that makes him even cooler).
And isn't this debate similar to the whole reason behind the entire thread? The Aldmeri Dominion and Thalmor think putting Talos on a pedestal labeled "The Ninth Divine" is wrong, whereas the Empire thinks the Aldmeri/Thalmor need to chill. Quite frankly, all sides suck, and need to get over it.
So, my side in Great War II would be the side of Progress, and here's my terms for a treaty:
Each race become their own government (Khajiit have the Elsweyr Confederacy, Imperials have the Imperial Empire, Skyrim becomes the Nordic Monarchy or Nordic Council, Altmer have the Aldmeri Dominion, etc.)
Skyrim gains Bruma and the surrounding areas, up to the Great Forest
Hammerfell gain Chorrol and most of the Colovian Highlands, up to the Great Forest
Morrowind gains Cheydinhal and the surrounding areas, up to the imaginary line that completes the circle the Great Forest would make
Black Marsh gains Bruma and the surrounding areas, up to where the Upper Niben River meets the Niben Bay
Elsweyr gains Leyawiin, the surrounding areas, and the areas directly north of current-day Elsweyr, up to the Great Forest
Valenwood gains the area to their north, up to the Great Forest
Cyrodiil loses the Imperial City, the Great Forest, and the areas and cities mentioned above; Their capital becomes Kvatch, having been reconstructed after the Oblivion Crisis, and their remaining non-capital cities are Skingrad and Anvil
The United Empires of Tamriel (UET) is formed (Think UN)
The Imperial City is renamed to Heartland City, and the it and the surrounding area is referred to as the Heartlands
The Heartlands become a neutral ground under the rule of a local government elected by the UET
The UET meet in Heartland City
The Aldmeri Dominion and Imperial Empire suck it up and stops trying to enforce their world views on other people; This applies to all other empires, too
Bullshit. The Third Aldmeri Dominion betrays the founding principles of the First Aldmeri Dominion. It has got to go, and a more tolerant Altmer family should be placed in as the royal family.
As for the Empire, since there's no more Septim Dynasty, make it like the Holy Roman Empire. Kings and nobles from the Summerset Isles, Skyrim, Cyrodiil, Morrowind, Valenwood, Black Marsh, High Rock, Hammerfell, and Elsweyr would all gather together, and from amongst themselves, they'll vote to select a new Emperor/Empress to rule Tamriel.
Bullshit. The Third Aldmeri Dominion betrays the founding principles of the First Aldmeri Dominion. It has got to go, and a more tolerant Altmer family should be placed in as the royal family.
As for the Empire, since there's no more Septim Dynasty, make it like the Holy Roman Empire. Kings and nobles from the Summerset Isles, Skyrim, Cyrodiil, Morrowind, Valenwood, Black Marsh, High Rock, Hammerfell, and Elsweyr would all gather together, and from amongst themselves, they'll vote to select a new Emperor/Empress to rule Tamriel.
Now, now, some take offense to those statements. I say that a UN-esque setup would be far more effective than a continent-wide Empire. Though, having read through several chapters of Recipes For Disaster, I'd dare say a civilian uprising would be more effective.
For reference as to how far in I am, there are 626 pages in the PDF. I am on page 183.
Pupdude wrote:
Bullshit. The Third Aldmeri Dominion betrays the founding principles of the First Aldmeri Dominion. It has got to go, and a more tolerant Altmer family should be placed in as the royal family.
As for the Empire, since there's no more Septim Dynasty, make it like the Holy Roman Empire. Kings and nobles from the Summerset Isles, Skyrim, Cyrodiil, Morrowind, Valenwood, Black Marsh, High Rock, Hammerfell, and Elsweyr would all gather together, and from amongst themselves, they'll vote to select a new Emperor/Empress to rule Tamriel.
Now, now, some take offense to those statements. I say that a UN-esque setup would be far more effective than a continent-wide Empire. Though, having read through several chapters of Recipes For Disaster, I'd dare say a civilian uprising would be more effective.
For reference as to how far in I am, there are 626 pages in the PDF. I am on page 183.
But a continent-wide elective monarchy IS the closest thing they can get to a UN-style government. Either they do that, or they create something along the lines of the Concert of Europe.
Pupdude wrote:
Bullshit. The Third Aldmeri Dominion betrays the founding principles of the First Aldmeri Dominion. It has got to go, and a more tolerant Altmer family should be placed in as the royal family.
As for the Empire, since there's no more Septim Dynasty, make it like the Holy Roman Empire. Kings and nobles from the Summerset Isles, Skyrim, Cyrodiil, Morrowind, Valenwood, Black Marsh, High Rock, Hammerfell, and Elsweyr would all gather together, and from amongst themselves, they'll vote to select a new Emperor/Empress to rule Tamriel.
For reference as to how far in I am, there are 626 pages in the PDF. I am on page 183.
But a continent-wide elective monarchy IS the closest thing they can get to a UN-style government. Either they do that, or they create something along the lines of the Concert of Europe.
The UN is not a government, it's an organization.
I can tell you're a troll.
HambleBee wrote: Then is this truly the end of the Elder Scrolls series? Please someone answer me! :)
I'll try to help you with my meager understanding of lore. Okay, so do you know anything about Landfall? It takes place in the 5th Era. Numindium returns, and kills all the Thalmor. The Neverarine and Vivec repopulate Nirn.
Landfall isn't canon, but could very well be.
Pupdude wrote: The UN is not a government, it's an organization.
It's an organization trying to become a government. The end result of what the UN wants is for all the nations to act under its banners all in cooperation.
There will be a reckoning.
The Nords left Atmora for Tamriel. Before them, the Elves had abandoned Aldmeris for Tamriel. The Redguards destroyed Yokuda so they could make their journey. All Men and Mer know Tamriel is the nexus of creation, where the Last War will happen, where the Gods unmade Lorkhan and left their Adamantine Tower of secrets. Who knows what the Akaviri think of Tamriel, but ask yourself: why have they tried to invade it three times or more?
-Mysterious Akavir
The book "Mysterious Akavir" is an incredibly, and ironically, mysterious one, one without a known author or source. It specifies, in little detail, the four primary races and "nations" of Akavir, the continent to the East of Tamriel, those being the Tsaesci, vampiric, possibly parasitic snake organisms who apparently consumed the men of the mainland of Akavir, the Ka Po' Tun, before this being just Po' Tun, whose emperor has apparently ascended to become a dragon, the Tang Mo, a race of monkeys who live on a large island chain and are arguably the weakest of the four, and the Kamal, a race of warriors quite similar to the Nords who invaded Tamriel during the Second Era. It also mentions something called The Last War, which will take place on the continent we know as Tamriel.
According to the book, Tamriel is the Nexus of Creation, where the Gods destroyed Lorkhan, the Aedroth responsible for the creation of Nirn it self, and where the gods placed the Adamantine Tower "of secrets".
If we think about this, this makes sense-Most important events in Nirnithic history took place on the continent-The gods placed every known great tower on Tamriel, suggesting that they focused their efforts on the continent, The Knahaten Flu spread across Tamriel, culling, shall we say, the "unprepared" races from the flock, many men have attempted to unite this continent, some have almost achieved this-This has never been recorded on any other continent-and every great event has reached its climax in Tamriel.
The Heart of Lorkhan was tossed into Red Mountain by Auriel (Auriel is Akatosh, Akatosh is Auriel) in an act of anger for the dramatic loss of power of the Aedra caused by the creation of Nirn. Since then, the gods, for reasons unknown, have nurtured Nirn, caring to it like a parent to a child, incredibly unusual for somebody who wishes to destroy a world to regain their power.
Historically, the gods have always favoured the Men over the Mer, and seem to have had no major interactions with the Beastkin. Alessia, a Nede, was blessed by Akatosh to be Dragonborn and overthrew the Ayleids. Akatosh blessed the Amulet of Kings, historically worn by Dragonborn emperors of the Empires of Man, and thus also Martin Septim in order to defeat Mehrunes Dagon, whose goals were suspiciously similar to that of the Third Aldmeri Dominion-to destroy Nirn.
Alduin's Wall, supposedly based off on an Elder Scroll, fortells...
When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world (Arena)
When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped (Daggerfall)
When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles (Morrowind)
When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls (Oblivion)
When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding (Skyrim)
The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.
This tells us that the White-Gold Tower no longer functions. The Eldensap likely was razed by the Third Aldmeri Dominion. The Orichchalium Tower was destroyed by the Yokudans while testing some new sword magics. The Numidium was destroyed during the climax of Daggerfall. The Crystal Tower was quite obviously destroyed, most likely by some sort of Daedric Invasion, possibly Mehrunes Dagon, Molag Bal, or, if unlikely, Sheogorath. The Grahkt-Tower was most likely destroyed, either by it just simply dying or Aldmeri intervention. Red Mountain was destroyed by the Nerevarine, and the Snow Tower is mostly likely defunct. This leaves us with the Adamantine Tower, and possibly the choice of the setting for the next Elder Scrolls game-High Rock, or at least the Illiac Bay region. (Let's just say that it isn't going to be Black Marsh or Elsweyr.)
In summary...
One tower remains.
It is in possesion of the Bretons, the race furthest away from the Summerset Isles if we perhaps exclude Morrowind.
The Third Aldmeri Dominion's primary goal is to destroy Nirn by permamently ceasing the activity of the towers.
The Direnni, despite being High Elves themselves, probably despise the Thalmor and their ideals.
Man will most likely prevail in this conflict, saving Nirn from destruction brought on by its own people.
The Third Aldmeri Dominion will fall. It is inevitable.
(Frankly, all I hope is that we can wrap up the whole Thalmor shenanigans quickly and move on from this dark page of Nirnithic history after the Elder Scrolls VI. How does it sound having an incredibly isolated island similar to Britain feature in the Elder Scrolls VI, and or VII?)
I thank you for reading this text.