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  • Okay, bare with me because this is small and I still haven't pieced together how she was able to do it but here goes:

    Is is possible that Azura has the Dwemer locked up in Moonshadow?

    So, Azura was a big player in the War of the First Council. She was practically Nerevar's top advisor in the whole matter; she confirmed the Dwemer were going to use the Heart of Lorkhan, she was the one he and the Tribunal swore an oath to about using the tools on the heart, she created the Nerevarine Prophecy and she cursed the Chimer and turned them into the Dunmer.

    Nerevar was a big worshipper of Azura if he consulted on every matter with her, and after his death I do see her allowing him to live out his spirit life in Moonshadow, kind of like Sovngarde where Nordic heroes go after they die. But then she made the Neverarine Prophecy, and sent him back to Tamriel to be reborn when the time was right.

    Moonshadow could be where all of Azura's biggest worshippers go, like Nerevar, as a prize for their devotion but it could be also where she keeps the people who have angered her. Her wrath is known to be swift and painful if brought about, like when she cursed the Chimer to punish Sotha Sil for his words against her right after she created the Nerevarine Prophecy to punish the Tribunal for breaking their oath to her and Nerevar.

    The Dwemer don't need to have a happy life in Moonshadow. Like Azura's wrath, Moonshadow may be able to turn dangerous and deadly for the people who have wronged the Daedric Prince. She takes them to her realm of Oblivion, after they die or even before that, and punishes them for their misdeeds against her before they can find redemption, or maybe they can never redeem themselves in her eyes.

    Azura could have timed it perfectly or even enchanted the tools briefly so when they hit the heart all of the race were transported into Moonshadow. Maybe when the Tribunal died (or vanished in Vivec's case but Azura could have easily just kidnapped him) she took them to Moonshadow to punish them personally.

    This could also explain why Yagrum Bagarn is the only Dwemer left on Tamriel. He wasn't even in Nirn at the time, but in another undescribed outer realm, maybe a realm of Oblivion, and if so Azura could not take him from there because he became 'property' of whoever's realm he was in and her reach cannot stretch to another Daedra's pocket of Oblivion without permission or starting an all out war with that Prince. Thus he was safe and evaded Azura's eye.

    And, if Azura could just take the entire Dwemer race to be punished, she could easily take Vivec during the commotion of the Oblivion Crisis which could explain where he went. Azura took him and the souls of Almalexia and Sotha Sil for wronging her, just like when Molag Bal tortured Mannimarco for trying to plot against him.

    We don't even know what goes on in Moonshadow like we do with other Oblivion realms, all we know is what it looks like to people who have visited; a giant beautiful garden that can make mortals half blind. We don't even know the half of it.

    Now it's just a theory and I'm not saying it's canon, but it's just an idea of mine I recently thought of.

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    • This is quite interesting

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    • To be honest, I think if she were torturing the Tribunal, she'd be easier on Almalexia because she was the least willing to use the tools and was only persuaded by talk of being able to better help the Chimer. As well as being the wife of her champion.

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    • @GamerSophie

      Did Azura really make the Nerevarine prophesy?  My understanding is that she just acknowledged it and the prophesy was an unintended by-product of the Tribunal's actions.  If you have a source that says otherwise I'd love to her it, honestly, because maybe I'm missing a reference.

      I don't think Azura is all that wrathful honestly.  The "worst" she did to the Chimer was change their appearance, which arguably made them more beautiful (Tiber Septim certainly "approved" of Barenziah's looks) and was more symbolic than anything else.  More of an ironic punishment since mortals tend to dislike change, even neutral and good ones.  Yes, it's possible to anger Azura, and she's not a perfect person, but she seems largely motivated by wanting to be loved by others and creating beauty, rather than manipulating mortals like most Princes.

      To quote Invocation of Azura:

      'Azura is the only Daedra Princess I have ever worshipped who seems to care about her followers. Molag Bal wanted my mind, Boethiah wanted my arms, and Nocturnal perhaps my curiosity. Azura wants all of that, and our love above all. Not our abject slavering, but our honest and genuine caring in all its forms. It is important to her that our emotions be engaged in her worship. And our love must also be directed inward. If we love her and hate ourselves, she feels our pain. I will, for all time, have no other mistress.'

      Sure, Azura is going to let you know if she's mad, and she didn't stand by while the Tribunal seized power for themselves, but she doesn't sound like the type to engage in perpetuating extreme suffering like torturing a people like the Dwemer.  Ultimately, even if her methodology can be inscrutable and round-about, as far as her alien values can be discerned she seems to want to do right by mortals, because she wants their love and to understand their pain.

      Edit: I agree that there is more to Moonshadow than meets the eye, though.  Mankar Camoran mentioned there being Ten Moonshadows and that they have a connection to Mephala in addition to Azura.  There is definitely some complicated history there.  If I had to guess, I imagine that parts of Moonshadow can be quite dangerous (A) because Azura is motivated by the creation of beauty and she may create things that are beautiful for their own sake in which case being dangerous may be inherent to their beauty (think of nature in our world) and (B) because Mephala and her creations may hang around Moonshadow too.

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    • @Webspidrman

      Azura is undisputably the one to create the Neverarine prophecy. She told the Tribunal when they took power from the Heart that Nerevar would come back to punish them. I and many others would count that as a prophecy.

      By personally I don't mean she's physically there doing it, nor do I mean torture like physical torture with whips and knives, but mentally. Not allowing them to leave a room or even a building just by taking away all the doors or not allowing them to see the outside just by taking all the windows. Lying to them is also another form of torture, and so is toying with them by using Nerevar. Pretending to allow them to see him only to find out it was a figment of Azura and he wasn't there after all. Keeping them from each other is another.

      I don't think Azura is out of the realm of possibility towards mental torture (Ayem could probably withstand it though, being driven crazy herself but still).

      And the Dwemer? Well they don't worship Daedric Princes so that's their own form of torture.

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    • @GamerSophie

      Wait, what are you talking about?  When did Azura trap anyone in a building?

      Azura told the Tribunal what would happen, but I interpret that as a warning and honestly one that probably saved Vivec's life since Vivec decided to embrace the Nerevarine rather than fight against Nerervar again.

      Edit: I assume reincarnation is a pretty common occurrence for mer at least since most don't believe in the afterlives of other races.  They believe they are trapped in Oblivion, which they consider Mundus to be a part of, so their souls just get recycled.

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    • I was giving examples that could constitute as mental torture. I'm not saying Azura trapped anyone a building; literally if you read what I said it's obvious I was giving examples. Also Azura is all about prophecy. It's like her thing, she's associated with it. Her 'warning' as you call it is literally called The Nerevarine Prophecy.

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    • GamerSophie wrote:
      I was giving examples that could constitute as mental torture. I'm not saying Azura trapped anyone a building; literally if you read what I said it's obvious I was giving examples.

      Sorry! ;^_^  I was not trying to offend.

      GamerSophie wrote:
      Also Azura is all about prophecy. It's like her thing, she's associated with it. Her 'warning' as you call it is literally called The Nerevarine Prophecy.

      It is her thing; what I meant to say is that it's not that I don't think it's a prophesy but that Azura telling the Tribunal the prophesy was a warning that allowed them to prepare, as opposed to just not telling them the prophesy and letting the prophesy play out without them knowing.

      As for the origin of the Nerevarine Prophesy, honestly I think the prophesy comes from the Elder Scrolls or whencever or however the Scrolls get their information. Azura, being a goddess, may also have access to this sort of prophetic information.

      To me, the Tribunal's fall seems mostly to be their own fault. Even in E.S.O.'s time period their flaws have already become apparent. Also, the Tribunal's power starts diminishing as a natural consequence of having to be powered by the Heart of Lorkhan, and they eventually become powerless to stop Dagoth Ur (except maybe Vivec, but he becomes apathetic). By the time the Nerevarine shows up, it's almost as if she or he is less making stuff happen then being there to prevent things from getting worse (for example, Almalexia killing people in madness, Dagoth Ur taking over, or any number of other bad things).

      In your opinion, do you think Azura had influence over Dagoth Ur, or was the reason he came to be?

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    • Sheogorath mentions the Numidium and the Staff of Chaos in ESO. Does that mean every Daedric Prince has such foresight but Azura uses it more then the others so it's her 'thing'? (In Skyrim, she talked to her worshipper with the use of prophecies).

      Dagoth Ur was loyal to Nerevar (before the Heart made him crazy or something) so yes, through Nerevar she influenced him a lot. 

      Preventing things from getting worse, definitely. That was Nerevar's job as Horator; uniting the Dunmer clans and making sure nothing happened that made anything worse for them. The War with the Dwemer was out of his hands so he had to fight to save his people because if he didn't he would have made everything worse for everyone.

      There is a theory some people believe that Almalexia was not driven mad by her separation from the Heart, but by Boethiah or Mephala's influence. It's possible; at the end of the day they lost an entire race of worshippers because of the Tribunal. I would be pissed if I was them.

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    • @GamerSophie

      I have no idea whence Azura gets her prophetic abilities from.  Sheogorath is also the same entity as Jyggalag in E.S.O., so maybe he still has some of Jyggalag's insight, but maybe you're right and all the Daedric Princes have an uncanny ability to predict the future, at least in comparison to mortals.

      There's also the theory that Azura is in charge of rotating Oblivion and all its constellatiions and mantaining the buffer between Oblivion and Aetherius, so that would support your theory that Azura actually makes the prophesy because of this relation to the constellations, but I'm personally still not convinced.

      Sotha Sil has something to say about Almalexia in E.S.O.; he says that she "believes her own lies" and that it's going to end badly for her.

      My personal theory about Almalexia's madness is that she wanted to mantle Boethiah without having Boethiah's personality influence her choices in ways she didn't want, so she created multiple personalities inside herself that she could call to the surface as she needed.  This kind of divine schizophrenia was something she could only do because she was a goddess; once she lost her divine power, all the aspects of Boethiah that she was suppressing were forced into her conscious personality, drastically affecting her mental state and ability to reason.  That's why she betrays the Tribunal and tries to kill the Nerevarine, because she doesn't have conscious control over Boethiah's aspect of betrayal and rebellion anymore.

      I also think that Almalexia was suppressing her guilt about killing Nerevar very hard.  In a psychotic kind of way, killing Nerevar again may have been her attempt to try to banish the guilt from her mind, because while the Nerevarine was alive she was in too much conflict with herself, especially because of all of the above.

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    • Vivec said that Almalexia started becoming sick after the events of Morrowind because of the loss of her powers.

      Also, I thought Vived and Dagoth Ur killed Nerevar?

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    • @CatholicPrincess15

      I agree that Almalexia losing her powers is totally what made her crazy.  I was just trying to explain the mechanics of why it happened.

      Either Nerevar died in combat with either Dumac Dwarfking or Voryn Dagoth, or it was a conspiracy of the Tribunal that killed Nerevar; if the Tribunal did kill Nerevar, the Ashlanders' account has all three Tribunes taking part in Nerevar's murder.

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    • Webspidrman wrote: @CatholicPrincess15

      I agree that Almalexia losing her powers is totally what made her crazy.  I was just trying to explain the mechanics of why it happened.

      Either Nerevar died in combat with either Dumac Dwarfking or Voryn Dagoth, or it was a conspiracy of the Tribunal that killed Nerevar; if the Tribunal did kill Nerevar, the Ashlanders' account has all three Tribunes taking part in Nerevar's murder.

      Didn't Vivec admit to killing him?

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    • Yup, but Vivec didn't have to be the only one to do it.

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    • So it had to have been the Tribunal, right?

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    • They thought by killing Nerevar they would save him from Azura's influence, which they thought began to control him because of how much he was using her for guidance.

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    • So they thought they were helping?

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    • Yes, that's what they believed they were doing. Of course to everyone else it counts as murder.

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    • A FANDOM user
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