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  • Apparently, it is confirmed that the Hero took Sheogorath's mantle. However, Jyggalag's quote once you defeat him says that he is not sure if the Hero is still a mortal or a Daedric Prince.

    Is it possible that the Hero took the mantle, but after defeating Jyg, left the Shivering Isles and resumed life as a mortal, hence rejecting becoming Sheogorath? Would Haskill then become Sheogorath?

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    • Well then who is it that we meet in Pelagius' mind in Skyrim?

      If it's neither Jyggalag nor the Hero, then who?

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    • Purrington wrote: Well then who is it that we meet in Pelagius' mind in Skyrim?

      If it's neither Jyggalag nor the Hero, then who?

      Haskill?

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    • Never mind. He's a Breton.

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    • Is it possible that the Hero could've given to someone else who wanted it?

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    • Well it's certainly possible but nothing of the sort is shown to have happened.

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    • Argh. I just don't like that we HAVE to be Sheogorath.

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    • Fair enough I suppose...

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    • Think of it more as a title, or a status. It doesn't necessarily mean the Hero will shapeshift into a gibbering old man once they become The Madgod.

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    • Then what was the gibbering old man we met in Skyrim . . .

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    • That was, uh...

      Purrington has left the chat

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    • '(
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    • @CatholicPrincess15 Here's how I see it:

      If the player completed the questline of the Shivering Isles, then there is a good chance that the Hero of Kvatch is Sheogorath.  If the player chose not to enter into Sheogorath's service, then someone else did, and that person became the new Sheogorath.  Sheogorath himself in the DLC says he was waiting for someone to be his champion, but that it wasn't necessarily the Hero of Kvatch.

      So the Champion of Sheogorath most likely always becomes Sheogorath, but the Champion of Sheogorath may or may not be the same person as the Hero of Kvatch.  So there are two different destinies which may or may not have been fulfilled by the same person.

      The only snag is what happens if the Hero of Kvatch starts the questline but doesn't complete it.  It's strongly implied that the Sheogorath in Skyrim is an entirely new person, so my guess is that either the player abandons her or his duties during one of the early missions and someone else ends up doing the dirty work instead, or if the Greymarch is nearing its end the Hero of Kvatch is destined to defeat Jyggalag even if the player procrastinates.  I wouldn't imagine that this is hard-and-fast, but rather that regardless of implications the outcome is meant to be left to your imagination.

      I think the whole storyline of The Shivering Isles DLC was a reflection about the nature of free will versus determinism.  The player defies Dyus's pessimistically deterministic predictions and is victorious over Jyggalag, but the path of becoming Sheogorath comes across as just as inevitable and unalterable as the path of the Greymarch seemed at first.  Given the themes, the creators probably meant to challenge the player's preconceived notions but ultimately to let her or him decide for her or him -self whether destiny or will is stronger and how exactly the story resolves itself in the end.

      If it makes you feel any better, if the Hero of Kvatch did indeed become Sheogorath he also seems to be relatively happy.  It's a subtle difference given that both Sheogoraths have the same quirks, obsess over cheese, are pretty much identical personality-wise, etc., but the old Sheogorath seemed to have a self-pitying streak and had a reputation for torturing mortals for sadistic pleasure, even though he had clearly gained empathy for his followers over the milennia.  He also seemed to struggle with doubts and Jyggalag-like thoughts of determinism.  In contrast, the new Sheogorath, who again may be either just the Champion of Sheogorath or the Champion of Sheogorath and the Hero of Kvatch, seems to have more self-love and be much more comfortable with himself, and he demonstrates a higher degree of empathy (probably due to having been a mortal) for example towards Pelagius; Sheogorath strongly hints that the whole reason he was spending time with Pelagius (beyond having fun) was to try to bring his spirit back to sanity (or at least keep him company), which is why he co-opts the Dragonborn's help and agrees to leave Pelagius's mind once he's become sane.  And even if he hadn't made any such plans, Sheogorath's willingness to give sanity rather than just madness seems very different from the old Sheogorath.

      So it might be said that the new Sheogorath has maintained and progressed the character development of the old one towards finding meaning, and he probably also has an at minimum stronger if not absolute belief in the power of choice given his triumph over Jyggalag.  In short, Sheogorath has evolved from a cursed being whoses primary purpose was harmful and self-destructive into a mindful god whose reason for being is expressive and self-creative, which should improve life in the Aurbis in the long run.

      I hope my comments were able to make you feel a little better. :)

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    • No, it is mentioned in Skyrim.

      "You are far too hard on yourself, my dear, sweet, homicidally insane Pelagius. What would the people do without you? Dance? Sing? Smile? [laughter] Grow old? You are the best Septim that has ever ruled. Well, except for that Martin fellow, but he turned into a Dragon god, and that's hardly sporting. You know, I was there for that whole sordid affair. Marvelous time! Butterflies, blood, a Fox, a severed head... Oh, and the cheese! To die for."

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    • The issue of whether the Hero of Kvatch is now actually Sheogorath depends on whether the Compact of Coldharbour, which prohibits Sheogorath from directly appearing on Nirn, still applied after Sotha Sil's death in Elder Scrolls III.

      If the Compact still binds, then the Hero of Kvatch could not have returned to Cyrodiil to finish quests etc.

      If the Compact died with Sotha Sil, then I prefer to believe in the alluded to daedric apotheosis.

      ---The Word Merchant of Julianos

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    • As far as I am concerned, all of Oblivion including DLCs were canon therefore the Hero became Sheogorath

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    • And as far as I'm concerned, since akatosh is literally dialga with wings, then the hero can be the sheogorath and then not be the sheogorath in 2 seperate timelines. Ya know, if a ripple in space time happens after the shivering isles. Oh, and we can't forget that races exist.


      but hey, thats just a theory...

      a crappy elder scrolls theory.

      Thanks for skimming over it!

      and if we do become the madgod, as one most likely said before,

      we don't become a gibbering old man who likes cheese immediatly after we become the madgod.

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    • Ok but in the DLC or anypoint after is it ever mentioned that a Dragon break occured after you take the mantal. So it is most likely that, we are indeed, Sheogorath.

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    • You could make it so some other adventurer became Sheogorath. Also on the page about the HoK, it states "Another theory contends that Sheogorath's many Tamrielic disciples informed him of the events." I firmly believe that he was either informed he was watching Tamriel over the events of Oblivion. That way, your character doesn't have to become Sheo.

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    • I would say that the Hero of Kvatch is almost confirmed to be Sheogorath. Jyggalag aka the original Sheogorath, returned to the realms of Oblivion to regain his strength and become his own distinguished being again. The player COC then mantled the Madgod and became Sheogorath. But he definitely is. Bethesda would not include all the hints/related events to the Hero of Kvatch if they weren’t the same being because it’s not necessary to the storyline. Now I kind of like to believe that when we meet our previous character in Skyrim, he appears to people with the persona of the original Sheogorath because that’s what people have come to expect. Maybe he did keep his sanity and it’s an act for the mortals of Nirn. Either that or (what I believe really happened) is he really did fuse into becoming mad because by mantling Sheogorath he in turn became Sheogorath save for his past and own personal beliefs/memories that he was able to retain. Taking on that kind of power, becoming a god, must change the person into that whom they chose to mantle. And when people say that a mortal cannot become a daedra/daedric prince, just remember that when the other 15 Daedric Princes turned Jyggalag into Sheogorath, they created inadvertently another being, equal in power to the original being they turned who was the most powerful of the daedric princes and when Jyggalag separated with Sheogorath as we mantled him, two wholly separate but equally powerful beings were created and since Sheogorath was a daedra, so to became the COC. 

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    • Then again, you never know. while it isn't specifically mentioned if a dragon break happened or not, it coulda happened.



      Then again again.... I got nothing.

      Just think of it this way: If the hero of kvatch became sheogorath, he/she would still want people to know who they are and what deeds they done, so they could easily stay the way they are. Also think of it this way: Sheogorath is one of the funniest and silliest characters in the elder scrolls series, so maybe they became a cool jester and stuff! Maybe his sillyness help saved more crisies? criseses? hmm. Anyways, if we did become sheogorath, we wouldn't be evil - we would be a silly god that sometimes helps the new heros of the ES games!

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    • Richteray wrote: Then again, you never know. while it isn't specifically mentioned if a dragon break happened or not, it coulda happened.



      Then again again.... I got nothing.

      Just think of it this way: If the hero of kvatch became sheogorath, he/she would still want people to know who they are and what deeds they done, so they could easily stay the way they are. Also think of it this way: Sheogorath is one of the funniest and silliest characters in the elder scrolls series, so maybe they became a cool jester and stuff! Maybe his sillyness help saved more crisies? criseses? hmm. Anyways, if we did become sheogorath, we wouldn't be evil - we would be a silly god that sometimes helps the new heros of the ES games!

      That makes me feel more comfortable.

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    • After some discussion with a few friends, I've come to the possibility that the answer of whether or not the Hero of Kvatch is Sheogorath is a contradiction. The answer in my mind is that the Hero of Kvatch IS Sheogorath, while at the same time, the Hero of Kvatch ISN'T Sheogorath. As maddening as this self-contradicting answer is, it completely matches what we expect from the Daedric Lord of Madness himself.

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    • NokiaTouchscreen
      NokiaTouchscreen removed this reply because:
      04:44, July 10, 2019
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    • Sure, it's possible.

      People who discuss video games online have a hard time understanding that "canon" is a concept that only a small group of super-nerdy fans care about. They think "canon" actually matters, or that writers should pay attention to "canon", etc., lots of silly ideas they'll probably get over some day.

      "Canon" has no relevance to how stories are written or told as far as the vast majority of people are concerned, unless you're talking about the Bible.

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    • A FANDOM user
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