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  • Hi all, Atvelonis here. As you are all likely aware, TESWiki currently hosts two methods of live communication. One of these, the Chat, is an official branch of the wiki, meaning that, as a chat function, our chat moderators are required to oversee its smooth operation. Unofficially, we also operate a public Discord server; although staff roles in the server more or less map onto roles on the wiki (e.g. I am an administrator here, and also one on there), the staff are actually under no obligation to spend any time in the server, and punishments on the server have no bearing on one's status on the wiki (and vice versa).

    Today, I would like to formally propose that we make the Discord server an official part of the wiki, like the Chat. Although the Chat has its uses, they are decidedly limited in comparison to Discord's significantly more vast array of features; text formatting, image embedding, bot functionality, multiple channels, direct messaging, role customization, user tagging, and much more. The Chat is also relatively buggy, has terrible mobile support, and does not permanently store message histories, none of which are issues on Discord. As a means of communicating more efficiently outside of talk pages, Discord is a much better way to do it than the Chat.

    So why have I held off for so long with this proposal? There are a couple main reasons:

    1. If we made the server official, we would naturally have to link it somewhere on the wiki, which would increase activity and require more intense moderation. I did not want to force the moderators to deal with that.
    2. I am personally somewhat nostalgically attached to the Chat and would not like to see it removed.

    But I have already brought this up to our chat moderators, RenzXVI and The Beautiful Princess Ashley, and they are both open to the idea of moderating the Discord server in an official capacity. There is also no reason that we have to remove the Chat even after making Discord official. If nostalgia takes hold and we would like to get together in there for old times' sake, we still may.

    My plan is to use a dev script called DiscordIntegrator to link to the server on the wiki's right rail, and perhaps also on the main page. We could also link to it on Discussions and in other places as we see fit. The Chat rules and all other wiki policies would be applied to the Discord server, and blocks on the wiki would correspond to bans from the Discord server (but Discord bans would not necessarily result in wiki blocks). I would not like to implement a policy of mandatory user verification, but simply continue with our current system of optional verification. In the future, we could hold moots in a special channel only available to verified users, which could be locked between meetings and messages saved as an eternally searchable archive.

    What are your thoughts on this? Do you have any questions or concerns in regard to this plan? Is there anything about it that you'd like to see changed? I would like to have a discussion on the matter now so that we can smooth out any ambiguities, and then we can hold a vote to formally decide whether or not we would like to go forward with this. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 21:03, November 23, 2019 (UTC)

    Voting-support Support
     
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    • I'm kind of in between. What's nice about the chat is that you don't need to make a seperate (Discord) account to communicate. But on the other hand, Discord is far superior in terms of communication than chat, especially when it comes to tracing back conversations from a couple days ago (or longer).

      I'm not active on chat, but am active on Discord, so I don't know if chat is generally active... but if it isn't, having an active Discord could make chat even less active.

      But aside from that, I generally think it's a good idea.

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    • Chat is about as dead as it can get, so I'm not really worried about emphasizing Discord more. That was definitely another reservation I had in 2016 or whenever it was that the server was created, but at this point I think it's not a huge issue.

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    • If the Discord server becomes official, it will most likely result in an influx of new people. I think it would be better to create a separate channel for automatic greetings to new arrivals, so that the #general would not be cluttered. I also think that #technical-editing should be limited to "Verified members", to keep it editors-focused (although, frequent visitors from other wikis will have to be granted a role to type there).

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    • Some sort of #new-members channel would be good. It also wouldn't hurt to have a dedicated channel for #verification for the same reason you gave.

      I'd rather keep #technical-editing open to anyone who wants to give editing a shot. I think that one of the values of the channel could be to get people who have never edited before into it, and a big part of that is just making it possible for them to interact there to begin with. With proper moderation, which we will have, I think that it won't get too off-topic.

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    • I came here to pretty much say what TCM already said. Maybe we can have a very low bar, like ten edits or something first for #TE? It's the channel I pay the most attention to and flooding concerns me.

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    • Keep in mind that Discord is an amazing tool to involve new editors and help them start, or even attract them to editing in the first place. Non-editors should have access to technical editing or at least have an editing help/support channel.

      What about keeping Moot archives at the wiki? I would still do that, since Discord messages can be deleted.

      Edit: I support the idea of making the Discord server official. I, as part of administration, also can look at it and moderate if needed, for example if chat mods are not there.

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    • Stygies VIII wrote:
      What about keeping Moot archives at the wiki?

      Voting-support Support
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    • i'm all for it, even if it does hurt the old chat. after all, there's no reason why we should keep pretending that anyone actually uses the old chat anymore

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    • I'd certainly like to continue documenting the moot archives on the wiki. It'd be necessary for us to have an on-site record of policy decisions.

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    • So... what about this new Advisor program? Can we punt newbies from /d to Discord?

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    • I haven't actually signed us up for the advisor program yet, but yes, I can't imagine it would be especially difficult to attract Discord users from Discussions. In the same way that we created a self-propagating culture around reading the rules on /d simply by linking to and speaking highly of them constantly, we could fairly easily integrate the Discord server into the user culture on /d by linking it in strategic places, such as in the rules and in welcome messages. Users will begin to do so on their own after a while.

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    • I have have no problem going to discord. It seems to be the prevailing trend on many other wikis anyway.

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    • Support for adding Discord more prominently, think it will help get new editors too

      Also I would like to see more channels (at least one for ESO) - easier to keep track of stuff, and there are things ingame (group dungeons, Craglorn stuff, etc) that require more than one person to complete that we are missing content/dialogue from on the wiki

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    • Would you be interested in multiple editing channels, or do you mean for such channels to be focused on the games themselves? Or both? I'm hesitant to make too many, but I agree that at least having an ESO channel wouldn't hurt!

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    • I don't think we need per game discussion channels, but I would support per game editing channels as needed (e.g., Arena doesn't need one, ESO definitely does, others somewhere in the middle).

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    • This is all useful feedback. Since it seems that we are all at least in agreement about the Discord server becoming official, I'm going to move this thread into the voting phase. I think that for now, it would be best to wait and see what adjustments to channels/roles are necessary based on the level of activity and behavior of users that we begin to see on the server; we don't want to solve a problem that doesn't exist!

      So we are now voting on the following proposal: To make the TESWiki Discord server an official branch of the wiki, requiring chat moderators to moderate it, and enforcing wiki blocks on the server (non-retroactively, unless it becomes an issue). Changes to channel and role structures to be left to the discretion of the moderators after the server goes public.

      Voting-support Support
      I think that the Discord server is a valuable means of communicating editorial projects, and making it official will draw in more users to help with the encyclopedia.
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    • Voting-support Support
      — I agree with everything except I believe moots on chat were great because anyone can walk in on it and participate.

      There could just be a moot channel that is only accesible for moots so literally everything in there are moot topics so the channel itself serves as its own moot log. People attending the next moot will even be able to easily access the previous moot, possibly even continue a topic if one was not officially resolved for whatever reason.

      We could also have a moot role made to allow access to the channel, so it's easy to give/take someone's access to it if needed, new users who appear on discord at the time of the moot can be verified and/or be given access to the moot channel if necessary.

      Edit: This would allow people on the server who aren't members of the wiki yet to join in. There would be more of those in the long run, might be a way to get them to start editing.

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    • Voting-support Support
      It will be helpful.

      On the moot role: I don't think that it is needed - the role is not too different from verified users.

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    • @Clayman: I proposed that while taking in mind the discord members who might not be in the wiki yet, people who were just sent an invite to the server, we'd get even more of those the more members there are on the server.

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    • RenzXVI wrote:
      ... discord members who might not be in the wiki yet, people who were just sent an invite to the server...

      Isn't that anyone who is not a verified user?

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    • Yes, someone who just somehow got onto the server by invite. Maybe they just got dragged there by wiki people or they are from some other wiki. Point is they can have some good input for the moot but they don't have a wiki account yet.

      The Moot channel could be viewable for everyone but only people with the right role can post. If so, they can reply through general or be allowed in prior to making a wiki account.

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    • RenzXVI wrote:
      Yes, someone who just somehow got onto the server by invite. Maybe they just got dragged there by wiki people ...

      That's the point of "Verified Users". I can't see why a role that is an opposite of the existing one is needed.

      RenzXVI wrote:
      ...or they are from some other wiki.

      The role for members of other wikis is okay though.

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    • Voting-support Support
      Using the Discord server will hopefully both increase activity on the Wiki and make it easier for the community, especially newer members. Codifying the existing Chat rules sounds apt and not difficult. Holding Moots on the server with a dedicated channel also seems like it would be generally more convenient, so long as there is still archive permanency for each session on the Wiki itself. Having only Verified Users on a dedicated Moot channel or #technical-editing may be necessary but if it doesn't prove to be a problem, I don't see the need. It sounds good all in all.
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    • Voting-support Support
      no objections.
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    • Voting-support Support
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    • Voting-support Support
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    • Voting-support Support
      This sounds good, more convenient.
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    • Voting-support Support
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    • Voting-support Support
      for reasons I specified above. It will help new users and is a better means of communication than Special:Chat.
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    • Atvelonis wrote: Would you be interested in multiple editing channels, or do you mean for such channels to be focused on the games themselves? Or both? I'm hesitant to make too many, but I agree that at least having an ESO channel wouldn't hurt!

      Sorry, thought I responded earlier. Basically would like a channel to help find groups (ie to get content we're missing), could be another if people want to discuss editing/formatting - there's lots of things like templates we could add to display more and better content, but we haven't really discussed any of it to my knowledge

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    • A FANDOM user
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