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  • The book "Notes on Racial Phylogeny" states that there have been reports of unions between beast races and humans/elves, yet without any documented offspring. Does anyone think it is possible, for example, for a Khajiit woman to be impregnated by a human?

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    • Bretons came about by the Aldmer experimenting with Elf and Human breeding. Khajiit's depending on the phase's of the moon's can be born as pure cat, if both moons are full the Khajiit will look identical to a tiger so that might not work to well.

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    • What about Ohmes/Ohmes-raht or Cathay, etc. any other more humanoid Khajiit breeds? Are these interfertile with other races? 

      I always thought that humanoid Khajiit breeds (and Argonians) are able to mate with humans or elves, with the offspring looking like both races, e.g. a Khajiit/Dunmer half-breed having the appearance of a Khajiit (if his mother is a Khajiit), yet lacking the tail as a result of interbreeding.

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    • I think its possible, but I'm quite certain that the result would be an unholy crime against nature that even Sheogorath himself would run in fear from it.

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    • I don't think the result would be this bad. Ohmes and Ohmes-raht look like Khajiit/Bosmer offsprings (though they are Khajiit). Maybe a half-breed would look like Ohmes, I mean, human-like but covered in short fur. But I don't really know about Argonians...

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    • Lol at least a Sload wasn't involved. Found this on the wiki page for Men -

      Drastically different culturally and physiologically from mer and beastfolk, humans are genetically capable of interbreeding with the former, while rumors of interbreeding with the latter exist, but are unproven.

      Most Men and Mer would find even the idea repulsive they see the Beastfolk as being only slightly above animals. If any mixed child was born it would be chased out of the village with torches and pitchfork's at the least.

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    • I believe the general consensus is that they can't. Argonians, at least, lay eggs, so the idea of the interbreeding with the other races is doubtful. 


      Then again, rule of thumb in Elder Scrolls is that the race of the mother determines the race of the child when crossbreeding occures. Thats why there aren't any half orcs or half elves(bretons being a specific case created over generations of deliberate crossbreeding, and are still technically men, not mer). 


      So while it's possible they occassionally produce viable offspring, it would be impossible to tell, really. A khajiit woman impregnated by a human would just have a khajiit offspring, and vice versa. I doubt mating between men/mer and beast races really occures enough to achieve verifiable cases. 

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    • I mean, well. I always said that if we came across an alien race that I would give it a try, as long as the parts are compatible. So hmm.

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    • Epzo wrote:
      I mean, well. I always said that if we came across an alien race that I would give it a try, as long as the parts are compatible. So hmm.


      Finger's crossed then for the aliens from Asobi ni iku yo!

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    • Maybe it is possible but it would be hard to tell, maybe a Khajiit+Dunmer could make a Khajiit with red eyes like the dunmer, grey fur (which isn't that unusual) and better at magic, or instead Dunmer with the pupils like slits, slightly larger canines etc.

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    • As far as the Mer half of the equation goes, they probably still look so poorly upon the beast races that it wouldn't happen.  It wasn't too long ago in the lore that the Dunmer had them for slaves.  And before somebody makes this arguement, slavery in Tamriel and Nirn and Mundus and all the other names and places associated with TES is far different than that of our real-world.  I don't think there would have been any slaver/slave relations going on.

      With that out of the way, while some may consider it impossible due to the birthing methods of some of these races (Argonians) keep in mind that magic and science aren't that far different in many cases.  Also, if it can happen for the Bretons, it can be done again elsewhere within lore - even if it hasn't been done, or mention, as of yet.  That's the beautiful thing about fantasy settings and mythral-based stories...anything is ultimately possible.

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    • AzuraKnight wrote:
      Epzo wrote:
      I mean, well. I always said that if we came across an alien race that I would give it a try, as long as the parts are compatible. So hmm.

      Finger's crossed then for the aliens from Asobi ni iku yo!

      Can I get a "Heck YEAH!" on that one?!

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    • Neko girls ftw.

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    • I doubt Argonians can breed with other races, though it might be possible for a Khajiit to.

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    • Jonesy95 wrote:
      I doubt Argonians can breed with other races, though it might be possible for a Khajiit to.


      Under the pretense that the mother determines the ultimate racial features of the child with TES cannon and lore, the only issue is if the "parts fit"...and that's something none of us truly know since Bethesda has seen fit to keep this a PG-rated game in that respect.

      edit:  Allow me to partially redact that statement by acknowledging the references to necrophilia on occassion, but they just that; references.

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    • Ok let me put it this way. Technically it is possible to have sexual relations with any race of Tamriel,and I don't want to be that guy who brings it up but there are people in our world who have "sex" with all kinds of animals. That being said, it would be possible to have "sex" with any race/species, but as far as breeding it probably can't happen for the races of Khajiit and Argonians. Unless you add the magic factor which really can change everything.

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    • PsijicThief wrote:
      Jonesy95 wrote:
      I doubt Argonians can breed with other races, though it might be possible for a Khajiit to.

      Under the pretense that the mother determines the ultimate racial features of the child with TES cannon and lore, the only issue is if the "parts fit"...and that's something none of us truly know since Bethesda has seen fit to keep this a PG-rated game in that respect.

      edit:  Allow me to partially redact that statement by acknowledging the references to necrophilia on occassion, but they just that; references.

      It makes sense that Bethesda would want to avoid the issue in the interest of rated content (i.e. sex). Since that is the case, we're unlikely to ever know the specifics.

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    • Men/mer, yes (son of Empress Katariah). Men/orc yes (Gray Prince). Mer/Orc possibly. Men/beastfolk, don't know. Mer/beastfolk, don't know.

      ~TESClaymore

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    • 124.180.113.160 wrote:
      Men/mer, yes (son of Empress Katariah). Men/orc yes (Gray Prince). Mer/Orc possibly. Men/beastfolk, don't know. Mer/beastfolk, don't know.

      ~TESClaymore


      I realize this might be a nit-picky kind of thing, but Orcs are Mer

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    • 124.180.113.160 wrote: Men/mer, yes (son of Empress Katariah). Men/orc yes (Gray Prince). Mer/Orc possibly. Men/beastfolk, don't know. Mer/beastfolk, don't know.

      ~TESClaymore

      Orcs real name Orsimer. Meaning: Pariah Folk. Mer being the main word in that.

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    • New information, I happened to sumble upon this while researching something else.  If you ever need info, check out this site, it's one of the best for lore and such out there.  The following is a direct quote from said web site:

      "Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals. On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another.

      Offspring of inter-racial matings have the racial appearance of the mother, but may occasionally share inherited characteristics and abilities of the father. Sloads, dragons, and other sentient races cannot mate with Men, Elves, or Beastmen, and are not considered 'human.' Exceptional accounts of matings between men and daedra do not fit smoothly into this scheme."

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    • PsijicThief wrote:
      As far as the Mer half of the equation goes, they probably still look so poorly upon the beast races that it wouldn't happen.  It wasn't too long ago in the lore that the Dunmer had them for slaves.  And before somebody makes this arguement, slavery in Tamriel and Nirn and Mundus and all the other names and places associated with TES is far different than that of our real-world.  I don't think there would have been any slaver/slave relations going on.

      How. Do. You. Know??? And anyways, i wouldn't put anything past the Thalmor.

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    • Well, first of all it's a generalization of the races, there are always exceptions to the rules.  Secondly, I can infer that opinion based on everything we know about the base characteristic of each race and their view on the other races around them.  It's basic sociology/behavioral psychology being used in a fake society with a deep and rich recorded history.

      It's all very simple, really . . . that's how I know.

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    • .....what? I don't really understand all of that--how does it apply?

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    • The question was posed IF the races can mate successfully between one another (Man, Beast and Mer).  After much debate we came to a few different possibilities, but no real conlcusions.  Today I practically tripped over the answer on accident, and posted it.  So now we know that they can.  One thing that has been mentioned persistently is the bit about the mother carrying the racial decision for the child.  Now, all of that is tangental to my point, but it's important to note for context.

      I made the point that regardless of whether or not they can, a secondary question would be a matter of WILL they mate.  I challenged that the races of Mer, especially the Dunmer, would not mate with the Beast races as they enslaved them.  In fact, all of the Mer races view Man and Beast as barely above sentient animals.  I was then asked, by you 71.61.178.23, how I could possibly know that.  To which I gave my response.  I will now, however, attempt to expound upon that.

      We know that the races of Mer generally despise Man and Beast, and more or less think of Man as Beast.  The Dunmer, specifically, had slaves of the Beast Races, and only didn't use Man because they were to weak and frail for hard labor in the harsh environments of Vvardenfell.  The ancient Mer enslaved Man in the First Era and before.  You mentioned that you wouldn't put anything past the Thalmor, in response to what I assume to be my comment about there being no potential for slave/slaver.  That can be derrived from the fact that Mer are usually so supremist and have such a large superiority complex that there's no way they would ever dilute their gene pool with such trash (in their mindset).  Added to even more by the fact they believe themselves to be decended directly from the gods.  So using basic sociology we know that their society is one of seclusion when it comes to mating.  They do not want "lesser" being in their genetic coding.  In turn, as we look at it with behavioral psychology, we can further understand the not just the actions or the reasons for their actions, but we can anticipate their future actions and presume more accurately the unrecorded actions of their past.  Using the same ideas we can figure out what all the races have and have not done with any number of facets of life.  We happen to be talking about breeding, so that's where I'm applying it. 

      That is how it applies.

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    • Well, I'm not saying that they would willingly breed with "inferior" stock, but I am saying that, being the repugnant *ssholes that they are, they probably wouldn't shirk from....er....a certain act which this forum will apparently censor the name of if I try to type it (as evidenced by the fact that it ate my previous (and quite lengthy) post). I believe that they would believe that members of other races (with the possible exception of the Bosmer) deserve such, erm, disgraceful and invasive treatment. Also, the Thalmor being the clever motherf*ckers that they are, they would probably use this particular act of Molag Bal's sphere to shame and debase those that they would like to weaken. From the twisted, sick, and utterly unacceptable point of view of the Thalmor, it makes sense. My main Skyrim character's hatred of the Thalmor comes from being the product of such an, er, union. (And I do mean HATRED. She kills every Thalmor that enters her sight, and she could barely keep her voice level during the "Diplomatic Immunity" Quest (or so I like to imagine; roleplaying!!))

      Also, I think that it deserves noticing that I used double parentheses twice in this post. XD

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    • I read a book in skyrim that said that Mer and Man could interbreed, but Beast Races are limited to their own kind. (Khajiit fur and tails, Argonian scales and tail and gills)

      I think the races of Men and Mer are more like the real life term race, but the Betmer are another species entirely.

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    • According to lore, taken from the best lore site I've found on the net (linked above) all the humanoid races can breed with each other.  It boils down to a matter of will they. 


      Now as for the wiki contributor who seems to think the Mer will molest the Beast races . . . NO!!  Why is it so hard to understand that these are not the races of Earth, Nirn has different rules.  As shown very simply by the fact that there are walking lizards!  There are exceptions, and it's great that you have a role play worked out to justify your thoughts and ideas, but it's not lore . . . it's not cannon.  It's basically fan-fic.  The Mer have a superiority complex like nothing you've ever seen before, and they aren't going to bring themselves down to the level of sleeping with animals, however sentient they might be.  The Mannish races are closing in on not being considered animals by most of the Mer, but they Altmer and the Dunmer are such strong-willed (hell, stubborn) groups that it will take another era before Man is seen anywhere near to being equal.  And everytime the young races of Man do something stupid and outlandishly racist it only solidifies the Mer's beliefs. 

      I understand that there are exceptions to every rule, and TES is no different.  Anytime I begin to speak about the races I always mention that I'm generalizing.  So there may have been one Altmer that screwed things up for your character's mother and it caused a natural predispostion for her to hate the Altmer (which is believable since all Mannish races are quick to judge the many based on the few) and so she taught you to do the same in your upbringing.  That, however, does make your character's ideas fact.  It also does not make your fan-fic, personally created backstory hard cannon.  This discussion in the Lore Section, I ask--nay, I plead, can we please keep it to the lore not to our personal hatreds that stem from a fake environment?

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    • ....sorry....and also, where did the "personal hatreds" comment come from? I don't hate the Thalmor, my character does. O__O

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    • It was implied to be your character's, as that's what we were discussing; your character's feelings that you created versus what is cannon within the Elder Scrolls universe.

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    • Good find from the savants Psijic, will definitely have to change what I have been saying on the chances of inter breeding between beastmen and other races.

      To back up your idea that breeding between Altmer in particular with Bosmer would be shunned I quote from the Monomyth

      "Some had already fallen, like the Chimer, who listened to tainted et'Ada, and others, like the Bosmer, had soiled Time's line by taking Mannish wives."

      The Bosmer were completely ostracized from their brothers, just look at how much they have evolved away from their kin in all aspects of their lives.

      Elves, particularly Altmer believe their lineage goes from Anu->Anuiel->Auriel->Aldmer->Atlmer. To break this line is to separate themselves from their divine heritage, which is an integral part of all aspects of Altmeri social and political life.

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    • Thank you, Banneram, great pull with the Monomyth.  The Dunmer are equally - is not in some cases more - prejudice towards the Mannish races.  The only reaons (I think I've said this a time or two above) they didn't use them for slavery originally was because they'd die in the harsh conditions of their land.  So in some ways they might have even been viewed as less than Beast to the Dunmer.

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    • yes the bretons thay are a mix betwene man and mer abominations!!!

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    • It seems that interbreeding is possible though not very common as Jagar Tharn was half- Breton (father) and half Dunmer (mother) and appeared to be Dunmer, Pelagius III was half Imperial (father) and half Altmeri (mother) and appeared to be Imperial, Pelagius'  and Katariah's son, Cassynder was half Dunmer due to his mother. I know that Jagar Tharn's physical appearance followed the guidelines of Racial Phylog. but Pelagius III definitely didn't and his son probably didn't either. Would this be due to a special Septim trait, or is Racial Phylog. more of a general guideline as to how mixed child would most likely appear.

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    • The child taking race from the mother is the rule, and like any rule there are exceptions.  Within TES those exceptions are almost always magical in nature.  Thus, I would think it safe to say, that the racial appearance of Pelagius and son would be attributed to the Septin blood, and moreover something to do with Akatosh.  It could just be that if the male genes are strong enough, under whatever pretense and reasoning that term means in Nirn, it can override the female half of the genetic code.  Either route seems just as likely as the other, in my opinion. And on a slightly related note, great point to bring to the discussion, Draconi.

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    • Pelagius III in game character was classified as a Breton in Skyrim. This may lend some credence to the Septim line actually being descended from a Breton Tiber Septim, as opposed to a Atmoran Tiber Septim. It would stand to reason that the Breton side of the Septim line would come out more when being intermingled with the Direnni genetic code. Perhaps Breton descendents genetic code is so mixed with Atlmeri code, that when they intermingle the general rule of favoring the mother is invalid, and you will always get a Breton child.

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    • The Septim line does seem to have quite a few elvish empresses and mistresses, so perhaps that could have brought the line to de facto Breton. Besides, Tiber Septim's original name was Hjalti-Early Beard as Wulfharth of Atmora mentions in "The Arcturian Heresy", so at the very least Tiber Septim's father had to be a Nord. Your point on elvish and Breton interbreeding is a very good one Banneram.

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    • True, when the natural order of things is messed with, as was the case when the Breton race was started, the normal rules don't always apply.  So perhaps there's something to explore there.

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    • I keep seeing people referencing the fact that the race is what the mother's race is, but what about Pelegius the Mad? Wasn't his mother an Altmer woman? Yet he is cleary more man than mer. 

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    • Murky Night wrote:
      I keep seeing people referencing the fact that the race is what the mother's race is, but what about Pelegius the Mad? Wasn't his mother an Altmer woman? Yet he is cleary more man than mer. 

      it's usually the mother, when dealing with magial people in a magical world it's hard to say that such genetic factors are always 100%

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    • And the thread went from interesting lore debate to a spiralling adolescent sexual fantasy fest . . . I'm out guys.  Unfollowed . . . sigh.

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    • Me too... although it was largely my fault

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    • Somebody please talk about lore with me, we have to fix this. The thread just isn't the same without Psijic.

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    • Perhaps with alot of magic and skill at it offspring from Bermer (beast races) and man and mer is possible.

      However, I was wondering about the possibility of half Aedric or half Daedric beings in the game, sort of like demigods from real life mythology. I mean Morihaus was supposedly Kynereth's son and Pelenial was Lorkahn's son. Arkay was kind of like Dionysus where he was born as a mortal with a divine parent and later apotheosized. There was a son of Azura how fought alongside Nerevar but I can't remember his name though. Even a union between a lower level Aedric or Daedric spirit and mortal would be pretty cool.

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    • That would be cool. Demigods have definately existed in Tamriel's history, hopefully they show up in the ESO. Wasn't there an Ayleid king who had a divine parent too? 

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    • Umaril the Unfeathered was one, which was why he was such a great challange to Pelenial Whitestrake during thier duel on top of White-Gold Tower. I wonder if Meridia might have been Umaril's divine parent considering she'd always back him and saved him from death when Pelenial defeated him.

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    • I thought that too, but St. Alessia's page confused me. Due to Meridia's influence, you'd expect her to be his divine parent but then I found this


      "Umaril, like Pelinal and Morihaus, was of divine bloodline, having an Ayleid mother and a divine father" 


      Leaving his divine parent a mystery! 

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    • Then again, Daedra aren't necessarily gendered. So his father could have very well been Meridia. 

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    • Don't forget that Meridia could have filled the mother role (much in the same way Aphrodite/Venus was the mother of the Trojan hero Aeneas) for Umaril and his father have been the previous Aylied king of the Rumare islands and White Gold Tower.

      On another point, despite one child of Azura's being acconted for as having hung out with Nerevar, Nerevar's title of "Moon and Star" seems to indicate some level of closeness to Azura (despite it already being known). Perhaps Nerevar was beloved by Azura or maybe even an adopted child (as that does sometimes happen in mythology i.e. Minerva/Athena and a child of Gaia) or an actual denigod, though I may just be overanalyzing here.

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    • I pretty sure that Faendal mentioned that him and Carlotta marrying would end his families bloodline.

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    • Wait, but I thought that the Bosmer were originally produced by Altmer taking human wives. Maybe, Man/Mer and possibly even Man/Beast and Mer/Beast can only produce offspring through a mage's or alchemist's assistence, something he might not be able to afford. We could also keep in mind the general rule that a cross racial child would have the mother's race (Racial Phylog.) so he could also be refering to the end of his family's bosmer continuity.

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    • Bretons are the Manmer, Bosmer are simply the wild offshoots of the Aldmer.

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    • Isdes Wyverntongue wrote:
      Bretons are the Manmer, Bosmer are simply the wild offshoots of the Aldmer.


      I was just referencing what someone else on this thread had mentioned about the Altmer's opinion on the bosmer, found in the book "The Monomyth". There are two stories having to do with with how the Bosmer came to be, one is that Hircine or was it Yiffre, turned them into what they are so that they could survive as hunters better in the rainforest. The second had to do with interbreeding.

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    • If I could throw in my own two cents on the origional topic: Every mer race in Tamriel seems to be decendents of the Aldmer. These are the Orcs, Dwarves, and the Snow, Wood, Dark, High, Sea, and Heartland High Elves. Then there are the races decended from the Atmorans: Nords and Imperials. The Bretons being hybrids of Atmoran and Aldmer decendents (which ones is a tad bit fuzzy). The Redguards are decended from something else it seems, but it would be a very small leap to see them as being compatible with the Atmorans. The Atmoran decendents can bread with eachother, the Aldmer decendents can bread with eachother, and there are many confirmed instances of the two groups interbreading. Now... as for the beast races... my own conjecture is the Argonians have to be thrown out. Reptile and Mamallian reproductive systems are so different that you don't even need to begin to consider their geans. The Khajiit however are interesting... they range from all-but indistinguishable from Bosmer to being cats and tigers. My intrest is in the former. The Wood Elves are known for their "wild hunt" where they exhibit lycanthropic tendencies. With that and the drastic changes from Aldmer (the High Elves consider themselves their direct decendents and so many believe that the two look very similar) to the Orcs to put things into perspective, my following theory doesn't seem too... insane. Consider the following: A group of Bosmer with religious connections to the moons live in the forrests of southern Elswyre. They make a pact with their gods simmilar to the ones made by the Orcs and the Dark Elves. This pact like the others brings about a great physical change causing a new race to be born from the exchange. If this were true then surely the Khajiit would be able to breed with their cousins, the other Aldmer decendents and by extension the decendents of the Atmorans and the Redguards. But this is conjecture and not fact.

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    • @68.70.45.238

      you should check out Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi on the whole Khajiit/Bosmer thing.

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    • Yes it is, the child takes the race of the mother, that is why the bretons have human form but elven blood.

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    • Dudes bretons are interesting enough but how the HELL did a goblin get created? My thoughts is an elf and an orc did some....stuff.

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    • If an Elf and an Orc did stuff you would simply get an Orsimer, or an Elf depending on the mothers race.

      Goblins are a beast race, where they come from is a source of debate the redgaurds explain them however they seem to come from outside the normal dimension.

      "They learn from the blades and together wield the force of the 5 swords to seal the rent in space time that the Goblins have made and from which springs their invasion. Hallin's companions avoided blinding by the magic swords by hurling the swords together into the void, and sealing forever the giant Goblins in the void between their world and ours."Notes for Redguard History

      After this event the goblins lose their size, and a significant amount of intellect.

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    • Oh ok thanks buddy!

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    • I swear I could read Banneram Lore Posts all day! Haha.

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    • I've always liked the Redguard's interpretation of the Nirn cosmos as their accounts seem to give an opinion you can't really get from the Humans, Betmer, or Mer. Like how Sep (Lorkhan/Shor) was supposedly created by Big Somthing, Pappa I think (Akatosh) from previous worlds destroyed by Alduin. I've also wondered about the Left-Handed Elves though. could they have been a seperate branch of the Maomer (as Yokuda as an archipelago), or even High Elves (as the Aylieds were supposedly high elves with a different culture; Umaril excepted considering his parentage).

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    • Banneram wrote:
      If an Elf and an Orc did stuff you would simply get an Orsimer, or an Elf depending on the mothers race.

      Goblins are a beast race, where they come from is a source of debate the redgaurds explain them however they seem to come from outside the normal dimension.

      "They learn from the blades and together wield the force of the 5 swords to seal the rent in space time that the Goblins have made and from which springs their invasion. Hallin's companions avoided blinding by the magic swords by hurling the swords together into the void, and sealing forever the giant Goblins in the void between their world and ours."Notes for Redguard History

      After this event the goblins lose their size, and a significant amount of intellect.

      Oh thanks! nice bit of lore to learn too :)


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    • I like these questions. We have proof of interbreeding between Altmer and Imperials making Pelagius the Mad. He in turn had a child with the dunmer Katariah making a little tribaby. Tiber Septim impregnated Barenziah but they aborted that child. As for beast races interbreeding I saw that argonians don't actually lay their eggs since they're Ovoviviparious, so I don't know if that means interbreeding would be possible or not but I'm sure Crassius Curio fantasizes about it. Like AzuraKnight said about the khajiit it depends on the cycle of moon they were born in so I'm sure it's possible maybe even for some of the more feline ones but doubtful for something like the Alfiq.

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    • PsijicThief wrote:
      And the thread went from interesting lore debate to a spiralling adolescent sexual fantasy fest . . . I'm out guys.  Unfollowed . . . sigh.


      lol i juts came here to see whats up and thean

      COMMMET REMOVED about 11 times.

      and for once i dont whant to know what these people wrote

      thatdudewiththegun-

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    • I don't think Khajit can breed with either man or mer, racial phylo says they have different biology and metabolism, if I am not wrong. The also have spiky XXXX as you will know.

      Argonian reproductive systems are probably not compatible with either man, mer or Khajit. Look up on how lizard/snake reproductive systems look like on Wikipedia.

      So, this marks the end of all your squick fantasies

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    • Sadly, no, in the book "Racial Phylogeny" sais that Mer/Men can't interbreed with Bestial races :<


      Too bad to my lil' Orsimer....

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    • The book simply says that claims of interbreeding between Daedra and Betmer (Khajit, Argonian, goblin, etc.), and mer and man has yet to be proven. As there are stories (probably legends or folklore) about it, but none has been corroborated. As for the orsimmer, they aren't a beast race (Betmer) they're a type of elf. Proof is present in the Grey Prince's existence.

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    • It is now obvious that Orcs and Man/Mer can have children, this is clear in Oblivion if you do the quest, Origin of the Gray Prince. You find out that Agronak gro-Malog is the son of an Orc and Imperial.

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    • The orsimmer not being considered mer fits with they're God Malacath being the patron of outcasts and being unaccepted by the other Daedra (whereas Meridia is). Orsimmer also means "pariah folk".

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    • But Orcs and Man/Mer can have children. This is basically confirmed in the Oblivion quest Origin of the Gray Prince

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    • TheDwemerSpy wrote:
      But Orcs and Man/Mer can have children. This is basically confirmed in the Oblivion quest Origin of the Gray Prince

      nobody is arguing against that, they're arguing for beastmen with man/mer; everyone knows man and mer can interbreed.

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    • Looking from the perspective of a geneticist, I think it's safe to assume that it's not possible for the man/mer to mate with beasts resulting in offspring.  Genetically, the two groups appear to be too far apart.  They would somehow have to be from the same species in order to produce offspring.  Similar to how ligers are produced.

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    • I'd look from the perspective of a guy that reads to much biology from wikipedia.

      I would say Argonians can ONLY mate with argonians, due to the massive differences between reptillian and mammalian biology. Just check out reptiles on wikipedia (and find out male argonians have dual pronged invertable reproductive organs).

      Khajit, this is more contentious, but assuming they have cat biology, their parts would be pretty incompatible with man/mer. Plus a male man/mer will not be able to impregnate a female khajit as their parts lack the needed barbs for the stimulation of ovulation in the female.

      I'd say the main reason why man and mer can reproduce is because their parts can fit together well enough and their reproductive cycles are similar. They probably share enough DNA too.

      This is not really confirmed, just a theory, feel free to contradict

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    • Sorry to Necro, but I came upon this form from google, wondering this very question. The results of this page were pretty inconclusive towards the end there, so I decided to do more research and I stumbled upon a book from the game daggerfall that could clear this up. I figured I'd do anyone else who was lead here from google, like me, a favor and place the answer here.

      I should warn you though what I'm posting is an in game Lore Book from the second game Daggerfall... it's pretty nsfw, so if you have issues with detailed and described sexual relations between dark elves and Khajitt I suggest you avoid clicking the link below. Since this is a book from a game in the ESO series it constitutes as Lore, even though the book was removed from the Morrowind and all future series to avoid jacking up the rating (NOT because it prescribed to false lore)

      http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Real_Barenziah,_Part_IV

      The sentence towards the very end "You ought to meet some nice elven boys, though. If you keep on keeping company with Khajiits and humans you'll find yourself pregnant soon." points out pretty clearly that a dark elf can produce offspring with both humans and Khajitt. Humans and Mer can interbreed. Mer and Khajitt can interbreed, it seems pretty likely human and Khajitt can interbreed as well.

      The only question left, is as to whether or not Argonians are capable of producing offspring with man and mer. The lusty argonian maid (you can google that one if you haven't already read it. I think I hit my quota for posting sketchy books in one post) is another book that at the very least suggests that the "relations" required for creating children are entirely possible between human and argonian... though it doesn't specify whether or not children will be reared from such a union. From what I've seen so far, though, there is NOTHING to indicate lore wise that such offspring is impossible. Any conjecture to the contrary is just that, one individuals opinion. We also do not have definitive proof, written in lore, that the argonians are equal in their ability of reproduction to the other of the beast race, the Khajitt. From what I've gathered from the first book I posted, the Lusty argonian maid, and Racial Phylogeny (Which was posted above)  I have strongly come to the OPINION that Argonians share this same capablity as the Khajitt (i mean c'mon, they are both come from the beastial races, and if cat humans and men and mer can have children, why not lizard humans?) and will continue to believe so until Bethesda has come out and released lore explicitly stating that such offspring is impossible.

      As to whether or not they will, is another story, but it seems in the past at least it has occured, and could just as easily happen again. It seems to be the exception rather than the rule though.

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    • Some (including the Khajiit themselves) Believe the Khajiit originated from a race of Mer that split into the Khajiit and the Bosmer; if this is true the Khajiit should theoretically be able to interbreed with the other races.

      However, The Argonians are known to have originated from regular lizards and reptiles that were exposed to The Hist; if you've read the Elderscrolls Novels [Infernal City and Lord of Souls] The Hist are known to be able to change the physical and biological properties of The Argonians, this could possibly include their [in/]ability to reproduce with the other races.

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    • Not to mention the Argonians are reptiles that lay eggs. Which means it is biologically impossible for them to interbreed with Mammals. Though in TESU there is magic, meaning you can probably make an abomination of nature like a reptile-mammal hybrid using some kind of magic. Though this has never been done before for all we know.

      It has been alluded in the Real Barenziah that Khajiits and Dunmer can interbreed, meaning they have to at least be able to interbreed with other Mer. If they can with Men is uncertain.

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    • Yes, because Agronak gro-Malog is the child of a orc and an Imperial, proving interfertility.

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    • Orcs are Elves. Not beasts

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    • Harold Burned-Mane wrote:

      It has been alluded in the Real Barenziah that Khajiits and Dunmer can interbreed, meaning they have to at least be able to interbreed with other Mer. If they can with Men is uncertain.

      Well, that's what I wanted to know actually. Thanks.

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    • Really folks, Argonian and Khajiit having children with men/mer is not confirmed and not disproven.  So essentially when it comes to Elder Scrolls lore the fact of the Betmer having children with men/mer is a possibility but that possibility may not even  be a possibility.  Simply, it not either confirmed or denied.  Also the Argonians are ovoviviparous and they do not lay eggs check the wiki.  

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    • Argonians are ovoviviparous which means the grow a egg inside them until it hatches, where they sort of give birth. But from what I've read from this thread is that when people talk about the Argonians, they seem to just be talking about a female Argonian but what would happen if it was a male Argonian with a female Man/Mer partner would it not just be the same, I mean lizards have you know what's aswell

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    • General rule of thumb with racial interbreeding in TES is that the child takes the race of the mother with some traits from the father. I assume it's the same with beast races, but I'm not sure many humans or elves would be having intercourse with giant lizards or cat men very often at all. Some Khajiit at least look almost human, and they are descended from Mer, so if anything it would be more likely than the Argonians, who used to be small tree-dwelling lizards.

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    • 210.50.137.94 wrote:
      Argonians are ovoviviparous which means the grow a egg inside them until it hatches, where they sort of give birth. But from what I've read from this thread is that when people talk about the Argonians, they seem to just be talking about a female Argonian but what would happen if it was a male Argonian with a female Man/Mer partner would it not just be the same, I mean lizards have you know what's aswell

      Actually in-game we see the female Argonians lay the eggs which the males then fertilize.

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    • A little off-topic but when I tried to go to this thread when it showed up in my notifications it took me to the Yugioh wiki. Does anyone have an explanation?

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    • Draevan13 wrote:
      210.50.137.94 wrote:
      Argonians are ovoviviparous which means the grow a egg inside them until it hatches, where they sort of give birth. But from what I've read from this thread is that when people talk about the Argonians, they seem to just be talking about a female Argonian but what would happen if it was a male Argonian with a female Man/Mer partner would it not just be the same, I mean lizards have you know what's aswell
      Actually in-game we see the female Argonians lay the eggs which the males then fertilize.

      Really? Which game?

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    • "Is interbreeding between beast races and men/mer possible?"

      I think species is the word you are looking since Argonians and Khajiit aren't a race of Mer/Men. So I think interbreeding between species would be a long shot but in the end it's a game, so whatever direction the developers want to take it is at their discretion. The game does seem to attract zoophiles (furries) so it wouldn't surprise me if their are mods out their to cater to that sort of deviancy.

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    • Rukathesoldier wrote:
      A little off-topic but when I tried to go to this thread when it showed up in my notifications it took me to the Yugioh wiki. Does anyone have an explanation?

      Its the heart of the cards calling to you Ruka, some other odd notification things are happening too have a look at the latest Weekend Update thread.

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    • Draevan13 wrote:

      210.50.137.94 wrote:
      Argonians are ovoviviparous which means the grow a egg inside them until it hatches, where they sort of give birth. But from what I've read from this thread is that when people talk about the Argonians, they seem to just be talking about a female Argonian but what would happen if it was a male Argonian with a female Man/Mer partner would it not just be the same, I mean lizards have you know what's aswell

      Actually in-game we see the female Argonians lay the eggs which the males then fertilize.

      I didn't know that, what game was it in, also I was just going of what I read from Wikipedia about ovoviviparous animals. But what about a male Argonian impregnating a female man/mer just end up having a man/mer with Mabye a few sharp teeth and Mabye a tail. Especially if the children didn't consume the hist sap.

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    • Rukathesoldier wrote:

      Really? Which game?

      ESO, in Shadowfen, you see clutches of unhatches eggs at the Hatching Pools.

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    • Draevan13 wrote:

      Rukathesoldier wrote:

      Really? Which game?

      ESO, in Shadowfen, you see clutches of unhatches eggs at the Hatching Pools.

      Oh I'm still waiting for it on Xbox one, k that makes sense but then wouldn't they just be normal reptiles not ovoviviparous.

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    • I really want to know because my character has a Nord/Altmer wife.

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    • The child predominantly takes the race of the mother read the book mention in the first post Notes on Racial Phylogeny, it also mentions how different the human and beastfolk are internally.

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    • ^

      Again, nothing is confirmed or denied regarding the topic of interbreeding between men/mer and the betmer (beast races).  Notes on Racial Phylogeny (as far as Elder Scrolls Lore is concerned) does not deny the possibility but does not confirm it either.  So as far as official Lore goes, it is unknown.  

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    • I don't think their going to say well for one to keep it ona pg-13 level and also its probably just easier to allow players to decide that for themselves with mods and such.

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    • It's not physically possible for Argonians to reproduce with Humans or Mer. The female Argonians lay eggs, which are then fertilized by the males. Like a human wouldn't be able to fertilize a chicken egg, other races in the TES world simply lack the parts necessary to lay or fertilize Argonian eggs. Humans/Mer with Khajiit and vice versa? Maybe, since they reproduce vivipariously. But Argonians with Humans or Mer is not possible. 

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    • Draevan13 wrote:
      It's not physically possible for Argonians to reproduce with Humans or Mer. The female Argonians lay eggs, which are then fertilized by the males. Like a human wouldn't be able to fertilize a chicken egg, other races in the TES world simply lack the parts necessary to lay or fertilize Argonian eggs. Humans/Mer with Khajiit and vice versa? Maybe, since they reproduce vivipariously. But Argonians with Humans or Mer is not possible. 

      With a magical breakthrough, it may be possible, though I highly doubt it would be just run of the mill accepted magic, it would definitely be near to or transsgressing what would be viewed as the bounds of ethical magical practice. Though I agree, no reproduction between the reptillian Argonians & the other mammalian races can occur through natural means.

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    • "But Argonians with Humans or Mer is not possible."

      Where in the entire series lore does it confirm this?  From what I could research on the wiki the only source in the lore that ever mentions reproduction in regards to the Betmer with a possible or impossible chance of interbreeding with either men or mer is the Racial Phylogeny book.  

      " Generally the offspring bear the racial traits of the mother, though some traces of the father's race may also be present. It is less clear whether the Argonians and Khajiit are interfertile with both humans and elves. Though there have been many reports throughout the Eras of children from these unions, as well as stories of unions with daedra, there have been no well documented offspring."

      This is from the Notes on Racial Phylogeny itself and from in-game lore it iterates to the reader that within the Elder Scroll's universe reproduction in-between the Betmer and men/mer is UNKNOWN. Which means the statement is not a fact and at the same time it is not denying the possibility of Betmer and men/mer reproduction.  Again, there is no confirmation from in-game lore or the developers on whether or not offspring from Betmer and men/mer is possible or impossible.  In accordance from what we know currently from in-game lore it is UNKNOWN.  The book does mention magical experimentation but that is not confirmed or denied either; it is merely a possibility or an impossbility with neither having a concrete basis in being fact.  

      If someone can actually find actual LORE information regarding whether or not Betmer and men/mer can reproduce please jump into the discussion.  But to my knowledge this entire topic is NOT confirmed OR denied by in-game lore or from the developers of the game series themselves.  

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    • It's simple logic. Human and Elven men have reproductive organs that are for fertilizing viviparious eggs. Argonians lay eggs, thus they are not viviparious eggs, thus Men and Mer couldn't fertilize them. Like I couldn't fertilize a chicken egg, the two are incompatible. 

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    • Draevan13 wrote:
      It's simple logic. Human and Elven men have reproductive organs that are for fertilizing viviparious eggs. Argonians lay eggs, thus they are not viviparious eggs, thus Men and Mer couldn't fertilize them. Like I couldn't fertilize a chicken egg, the two are incompatible. 

      I understand your point, but until such information is CONFIRMED or STATED to NOT be true by in-game lore and/or the developers your point is not canon or factual within the context of the series.  I could make an assumption but until I have lore or a confirmation from the developers backing or denying my statement it is not factual or canon at any point.  Essentially, it is just a theory and theories are merely ideas until proven or disproven.  Simply, we can all have our opinions regarding this topic but one thing that remains true is until interbreeding between Betmer and men/mer is confirmed or denied by in-game lore or developers of the series (BGS) the ACTUAL answer within the context of the Elder Scrolls Series is unknown.  You can still have you opinion/s but they are merely opinions and nothing more.  

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    • Also, you have to remember that the Argonians are are capable of physically changing, due to the Hist, which may or may or may not stem to reproduction, and ESO was before even Tiber Septim's reign. After all that time one would think that due to changing environments, the Argonians most likely went through many situations that required them to change. Internally Argonians could be almost entirely different in the Fourth Era than the times that ESO take place, at least internally. There changes obviously wouldn't be that external. Also, this may or may not be a thing at all to contribute, as it is unknown if changes to the Argonians body from this Hist or if it just lasts until the change is no longer needed. If you think about WHY the Hist would make them able to reproduce with other races, it would probably be due to the Argonians being nearly wiped off the face of Nirn. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but the Argonians at some point have probably been in some pretty hard places when it comes to survival of their race.

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    • Elves and Humans may mate.

      Orcs and Humans may mate. 

      http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Agronak_gro-Malog

      Born from a mother Orc and a father Imperial.

      It is less clear whether the Argonians and Khajiit are interfertile with both Humans and Elves. Though there have been many reports throughout the Eras of children from these unions, as well as stories of unions with daedra, there have been no well documented offspring. 

      I can think that Khajiit can mate with Humans and Elves considering they are reshaped Bosmers so they are Elves created by Azura(This of course if you consider the myth of creation by Azura true).

      Argonians on the other hand are created from the Hist and as such they possiblly don't share traits with other races making it impossible to breed with other races.

      On the other hand if you consider that Khajiit evolved from cats and Argonians from lizards then that would make it impossible for them to breed with other races.

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    • Is it possible that a Dunmer and a Nord could mate and have the child appear to be Nord? Hinting at a certain child in Whiterun, and yes I know there's another thread.

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    • The PsijicThief has a link to the site and full quotes that come out the game Morrowind in game texts, that state Beast, Mer, and Man all can interbreed.  It also in that states that Orcs are Betmeri.  If you go to the site you can do search for manish to find the link to the page, "Savants' Notes on Vvardenfall"

      http://tinyurl.com/qz4z4x3

      ```

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    • Orcs are mer not Betmer. 

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    • I think there are enough unholy abominations against nature in the ES universe...don't try and make more.

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    • Oh and there isn't half races, The son takes the apearence of the mother

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    • WrathOfHircine wrote:
      Oh and there isn't half races, The son takes the apearence of the mother


      Exactly! Bretons are technically a "half-race" but they're the result of profane, evil magicks.

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    • Actually there is half races. Both Lamia and Hagravens are cross-breeds. Of what, I'm not entirely sure, but they are definitely part human.

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    • From what we see in the quest Repentance Hagravens seem to be made, not a lot of information on Lamia though.

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    • I know this thread is old but I would like to point something out.

      We have no proof that DNA is a physical (and undiscovered) thing in Elder Scrolls. If there are stars that are really holes in reality and huge, fire-breathing lizards, I'd say its a good idea to throw most of what we know about our world out the window. It could very well be that a new race could pop up (most likely with Adrea or Deadra interference).

      So intil something comes up canon wise that proves it, we simply don't know.

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    • No, no, no, the stars in the Elder Scrolls are not huge, fire breathing lizards, they're holes ripped into the fabric of Mundus when many of the lesser Aedra fled after realizing that Lorkhan's plan to create a world was draining them of their power.

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    • The fire-breathing lizards comment was in reference to dragons :P lol

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    • Elves can most definitely interbreed with Man (see: Breton)

      I assume that human-like Khajiit could produce children with Man or Mer, but the Argonians are a whole nother story. Notes On Racial Phylogeny implies that the Argonians may have different reproductive systems than Man and Mer, thus it is unlikely that they can interbreed.

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    • 209.56.239.1 wrote:
      Elves can most definitely interbreed with Man (see: Breton)

      I assume that human-like Khajiit could produce children with Man or Mer, but the Argonians are a whole nother story. Notes On Racial Phylogeny implies that the Argonians may have different reproductive systems than Man and Mer, thus it is unlikely that they can interbreed.

      Sorry, Notes on Racial Phylogeny.

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    • PsijicThief wrote:
      As far as the Mer half of the equation goes, they probably still look so poorly upon the beast races that it wouldn't happen.  It wasn't too long ago in the lore that the Dunmer had them for slaves.  And before somebody makes this arguement, slavery in Tamriel and Nirn and Mundus and all the other names and places associated with TES is far different than that of our real-world.  I don't think there would have been any slaver/slave relations going on.

      Remember St. Alissia and why she began a rebellion? Now remember when the Breton race was created? 

      So, now, what did you said about slavery being different in Skyrim?

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    • Firstly, even ingame sources do not outrightly deny possiblity of men/mer having offspring with beast races

      Secondly, world of TES is rather refined and developed on deep levels and ingame literature is what it would be in our world - in-character expression of their subjective opinion based on their personal experiences, popular opinion in their society, their goals etc.

      This means, that ingame sources are not the truth in its latest instance and should not be trusted.

      Monomyth and arcturian heresy are both for example propaganda works of characters, who push their political agendas. Also character, who wrote book "Ancestors and Dunmer", which states that dunmer are seeing men as animals, may had been motivated to do so by other factors, than this being true.

      Overal, TES world contains a lot of things: polititians, racists, fanatics, perverts (remember necrophiliac dunmer from TES4 or the person, who had lust for ghostly women in TES5)... it would be logical to assume even, that majority of Tamriel's population are uneducated village louts, who have no idea where did men come from, where did mer come from or who killed Lorkhan and why.

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    • From what I've gathered here's how crossbreeding in Elder Scrolls works:

      Men and Mer = Fine, that's how we ended up with Bretons

      Khajiit and Men = Nope

      Khajiit and Mer: Male Khajiit and Female Bosmer since Bosmer are their closet relatives

      Argonian and Everyone Else = Nope

      And as a bonus, half vampire is a thing, Oblivion had the Grey Prince, a half-vampire orc, one of his parents being a vampire

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    • A FANDOM user
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