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  • I know what you are thinking, but honestly hear me out. No one really seems to know what happens to the hero of each game, in fact it's all a bit of a mystery, small hints are made by characters but nothing is set in stone. For example all the heroes of each game are inherently of a Male gender, now this coupled with the fact that in each game you start out as some form of “Prisoner” (Such as the metaphorical prisoner of a dungeon etc, etc) and if the Hero wasn't actually of a “Mortal” race more just a being brought into the world by the Nine to fight against a darkness, this can work with the coupling of Uriel Septim VII's strong affiliation with the Nine and so Uriel sees the Nine bringing this Hero into the realm.

    Now back to the part of being a prisoner, as a prisoner you aren't born into the world with a family, you are a nobody who is not connected to anyone thus this allows the Nine to create a being who cannot be targeted through means of family, or loved ones. (I understand that in Skyrim you can have a wife/husband etc but that is purely a player decision and so it doesn't actually mean anything towards the lore) This means that even if anyone else is targeted by the enemies of the Nine/Hero they will not stray from their path of completing what the Nine had set out for them.

    Now a lot of people suggest that Sheogorath may be the Hero of Kvatch, this is only suggested because he mentions a lot of what the Hero saw during the main quest line of Oblivion, but I kind of disagree with this statement, this is mainly due to the fact that he is the Daedric Prince of Madness. And as a Daedric Prince he has probably seen quite a lot of happenings in the mortal realm.

    Anyway, have a nice discussion about it, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

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    • Interesting matter, really. You should read the topics on Lorkhan and the Shezarrines.

      There says that the heroes may be representations of Lorkhan himself on Nirn, which is the only way he can manifest in the mortal plane. That's why they are not bound by many aspects of the world, and usually end up being more powerful than the rest of mortals.

      So I think there is definitely a connection between them, but it doesn't seem logical for them to be the same person, given that they all must be alive at the same time. Check out the 3º Era timeline, you'll see that the gap of time between Arena and Oblivion is about 40 years. (And between Morrowind & Oblivion just 6). The only one set further in time is the dovahkiin, 200 years later. Anyway, a nice topic for a deeper research :D

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    • in dawnguard you can talk about your family with serana, you can sort of choose what was your relationship with your family, if you miss them, hate them or simply don't care.

      also in morrowind within the prophecy, there is a line that says "A prisoner born on a certain day to uncertain parents".

      I think that every hero have or had a family, that what make them ordinary at the beginning, before turning into great heroes, maybe some sort of blood lineage that your hero doesn't know and was long lost, even too his family.

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    • Then maybe one might be able to argue that the same person is in both the games (Morrowind/Oblivion) No one really knows where the Hero had gone, and so it maybe possible, also 40 years is more than enough time for someone to de-manifest themself to repair any wounds suffered during the story.

      Also having family, is more of weird topic, they could possible be apart of a blood lineage but that's a whole different scenario. As stated before that could purely be based upon a player's decsions, and not actually impact any form of the main storyline.

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    • In Morrowind you became the Naravarine...a demi-god.  You became an equal to Vivec.  The reason so much of it is always shrouded in a bit of mystery (outside of major details) is because we all play as somebody different.  The Hero of Kvatch took on the form of Sheogorath for at least the durration of the era - possibly more, it's still yet to be seen if we stopped the cycle of the Grey March.  We've yet to see what will happen ultimately with the Dragonborn, there's been nothing that will truly immortalize us, yet (outside of becoming a Vampire and simply surviving). 

      All-in-all not a horrible thought process, however.  I think if we take in the idea that each hero is the embodiment of Lorkhan, we can deduce that maybe each hero isn't the same physical person.  Possession isnt the word I really want to use, but the hero of each great event could be working with the spirit of Lorkhan - making them all of the same, but not literally the same.

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    • So maybe not the same person, but definitely some form of an embodiment of either a god or something of equal power. It makes some form of sense really. I think me using "Person" was too far of a broad retrospective. Maybe the last DLC for Skyrim may be the Dragonborn becoming something of an immortal but we will see. Some people have claimed it could be the Dragonborn taking on the Aldmeri Dominon but I can't see this linking into the timeline really, especially due to the fact that I can't see the Dragonborn taking onto political matters. But we will see.

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    • The Dragonborn's political affiliation is up to the person playing the game at the time.  So unless there's a DLC where you get to choose sides, I don't think so.  Maybe if it's the Blades needing your help along with whoever you sided with in the civil war to fight the Aldmeri?  I don't know, just throwing out idead on that one.  At any rate, I definitely see where you're coming from on the idea of them each becoming the avatar of an Aedra or something to that affect.

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    • There's about a 96.7% chance that little to none of the plot of Shivering Isles even happened. We're dealing with the Daedric Prince of Madness here, we probably never even left Cyrodill.

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    • Very Inception-esque of you, Flamedude22, haha!

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    • Actually quite true, it was probably all a dream... Whoa mannnn deeeeep.

      Anywho being an avatar of an Aedra is also a possiblity, to be fair though-I think it's safe to say that the Hero of each game may have some sort of extra form of power, albeit in different possible scenarios.

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    • My personal preferred belief is that the heroes are blessed by the Divines to exact whatever challenge is needed to be overcome in each major conflict.  That's why we must always jump through hoops to get things done (be infeted by Corprus and survive, learn from the Greybeards, all that stuff).  Ordinary people in extraordinary cirumstances that must overcome tasks and challenges and must face great evil.  The little man rising above it all, kind of story.

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    • You're just laying in Imperial City having a Sheogorath (and a maybe just a little Skooma) induced seizure, as Martin Septim panics. You're Avatar of the Aedra, the Divine's mortal hand on Mundz, theory, makes perfect sense.

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    • Flamedude22 wrote:
      You're just laying in Imperial City having a Sheogorath (and a maybe just a little Skooma) induced seizure, as Martin Septim panics. You're Avatar of the Aedra, the Divine's mortal hand on Mundz, makes perfect sense.

      I have the funniest picture in my head of Martin running in circles crying out for help as the member of the Blades that you meet in the bar there in the city kneels over your body screaming "Not again!"  All while you lay there twitching slightly with the biggest smile on your face and the citizens all run and guards have no idea what to do. 

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    • So I've been doing a little bit of reasearch and come to this small conclusion as a possibility, only a possibility.

      So the Nerevar could either be an embodiment of Zenithar in the sense that it is about bringing peace etc. The Hero of Kvatch could be an embodiment of Stendarr, maybe in the sense that he shows mercy to many people throughout his journey. And finally the Dragonborn could be an embodiment of Trinimac, being a great and powerful warrior and strength.

      Either way it is a very interesting thought-especially when you consider that you may possibly be playing as an Aedra, although it clearly suggests that the Hero isn't immortal, dying may possibly be a common thing for a player.

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    • Talos?

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    • By lore the Aedra can be killed, if I remember my readings correctly.  They have the power to create, but can be killed.  The Deadra only have the power to change things, and can only be banished to return later.  So to play as an actuall Aedra would be a bit dangerous for the continuation of the Aedra themselves. 

      I could be misquoating something here, I'm not 100% sure and will have to re-research some things to kind of double-check myself.  That being said, I'm feeling about 70% confident in what I just said.

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    • So as stated maybe you don't play as the "Aedra" themselves but give a being some of the powers that they would originally possess, that being said not one of the heroes seem to show the power that would originally be bestowed upon them. However I think this may link into something.

      In Morrowind you can't exactly go on a rampage and kill everything but you are seemed to be quite wise, that being said in Skyrim you are played to being quite a strong character who can kill most things. I think this may be a strong point to back up other points. The Hero of Kvatch on the other hand seems to be a mix of both, he is there to protect and serve Martin, so you have a mixture of both.


      Flamedude22 wrote:
      Talos?

      Okay fair enough so maybe Dragonborn is Ysmir and the Hero of Kvatch is Trinimac.

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    • I don't belive Aedra die of old age though. The hero's probably either have the souls of Aedra, or are a spawned into existence by Aedra, all the hero's still may share a soul. Reincarnated from hero to hero. Think about how absurdly unlikely that in real life you'd be the chosen one for EVERYTHING!!? Unless "The game was rigged from the start." by the Divines themselves. 

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    • Flamedude22 wrote:
      I don't belive Aedra die of old age though. The hero's probably either have the souls of Aedra, or are a spawned into existence by Aedra, all the hero's still may share a soul. Reincarnated from hero to hero. Think about how absurdly unlikely that in real life you'd be the chosen one for EVERYTHING!!? Unless "The game was rigged from the start." by the Divines themselves. 


      I like the reference to the whole thing being rigged by the Aedra.  Imagine if the whole storyline from game to game was ultimately leading to a huge, existence shattering war between the Aedra and the Deadra?  The Aedra are trying to prep Nirn for something huge by putting in place these different things.  They put the Naravarine Incarnate in place as a demi-god, they bring about events and whisper ideas and create circumstances for the Hero of Kvatch to become the new Sheogorath - giving them a Deadra on the inside, albeit an unpredictable one.  Although that could be good, a randomly acting Deadra could do anything!  Then you have the Dragonborn, stopping Alduin and bringing about gods only know what else down the road with any new DLC.  The Dragonborn being the strongest voice of the Dovah, and stopping the return of the first Dragonborn ... the first Dragonpriest, even ... could have huge effects down the road. 

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    • And all the Daedric Princes hold him as their individual champions. Alduin was Aedra-Spawn himself, Dragonborn was sent slay his first-born brother.. Who knows what the purpose of this is? Who knows if Alduin was created to do something different?

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    • A lot of random events that have potential to tie together.  Alduin was Aedra-spawn, but he kind of went mad.  And all the Deadra don't inheiently claim the heroes as their champion (that's something you do as a choice, it's not part of the main quest).  Traditionally, based on the conversations you have with NPCs and the way the books read in-game, only events that happen as part of the main quest and the DLC main quests become hard cannon.  Everything else is left open.

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    • Are Aedra actualy capable of taking physical form on Mundz?

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    • Like I said, I would have to do a little re-reading and re-researching to make sure, but I think so...I'll go digging for it later.  I watch the forums while things process at work, I do all my digging and reading at home, lol.

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    • Mundz.... I've been saying Mundz.. Mundus!

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    • The hero is or corrosponds to a demi god in power and status.   The gods could certainly cause a demi god to be reborn or recreated repeatedly.  You certainly don't seem to have any history prior to being a prisoner!

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    • first of all no they can't one reason is from arena to skyrim in time is about 2,000+ years secondly people say that sheogorath is the hero of kavatch because if you played the shivering isles DLC for oblivion you sorta turn into sheogorath.

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    • For a bit time I was thinking that the player is just an incarnete of the last player, going all the way back to Arena. And in the last game, the remember everything that happened in their previous lives and defeat the enemy threat or whatever. Just an idea, and that whole idea about taking down the Thalmor, I've had another idea that the Imperials and Stormcloaks truced and toke them down. Win-Win situation right?

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    • 69.178.97.186 wrote:
      first of all no they can't one reason is from arena to skyrim in time is about 2,000+ years secondly people say that sheogorath is the hero of kavatch because if you played the shivering isles DLC for oblivion you sorta turn into sheogorath.

      umm...actually its only about 200 years or so.

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    • What if you ARE Lorkhan, and you're re-incarated/resurrected/re-whatever at the begining of each game?

      I mean, he was a God, and how could a God, a real one, not a fake God like those Tribunals from Morrowind, really die?

      Food for thought.

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    • What if! The aedra have gone back in time to stop a cataclysmic event from happening. So they already know what happened and so know what needs to be done to stop it. For example whenever the Hero suffers a grave injury/disease in the story line (Like in Morrowind) The aedra know that this is something that must be done.

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    • Oakusify wrote:
      What if! The aedra have gone back in time to stop a cataclysmic event from happening. So they already know what happened and so know what needs to be done to stop it. For example whenever the Hero suffers a grave injury/disease in the story line (Like in Morrowind) The aedra know that this is something that must be done.

      There should really be an Aedri/Etd'a being who returns into Mundus from the whole he left through when following Magnus and change fatal events that happened (Extinction of dwemer/snow elves/chimer/ayleids).

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    • i think that you may possibly be a human manifestation of akatosh as he is the overall main divine

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    • I've liked Au-riel as a better name. Sounds more ancient.

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    • Ok I thought that the Hero from Arena and the hero from Daggerfall was the same guy. Because it is the same Emperor and the beginning talks about how after saving his life you became his right hand man in the shadows and such. But the Naravarine is someone else completely, well at least physically speaking. Now it isn't possible that the person is the aspect of Lorkhan because Lorkhan is the god that is traditionally supportive of Man and in game you can be an race.

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    • Yes but Epzo that is purely down to player decision not necessarily how the story actually pans out. For example, in trailers the Dovahkiin is depicted as a Male Nord. So really the "Can be any race" is only bound to what the player wants and not actually the whole lore situation. 

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    • I don't know much, but I think it isn't the same at all.

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    • Oakusify wrote: Yes but Epzo that is purely down to player decision not necessarily how the story actually pans out. For example, in trailers the Dovahkiin is depicted as a Male Nord. So really the "Can be any race" is only bound to what the player wants and not actually the whole lore situation. 

      That is why the player character couldn't be the aspect of Lorkhan because the player character can be any species; if Bethesda were to say "he is an aspect of Lorkhan" then that singles out the other species. Therefore it would be lore breaking to make the player character the aspect of Lorkhan.

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    • If the Nerevarines an aspect, why would he destroy the heart? Nine Divines wanted to finish Lorkhan for good?

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    • Epzo wrote:

      Oakusify wrote: Yes but Epzo that is purely down to player decision not necessarily how the story actually pans out. For example, in trailers the Dovahkiin is depicted as a Male Nord. So really the "Can be any race" is only bound to what the player wants and not actually the whole lore situation. 

      That is why the player character couldn't be the aspect of Lorkhan because the player character can be any species; if Bethesda were to say "he is an aspect of Lorkhan" then that singles out the other species. Therefore it would be lore breaking to make the player character the aspect of Lorkhan.


      Yay logic! Go, Epzo, go!

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    • The Rim of the Sky wrote:
      If the Nerevarines an aspect, why would he destroy the heart? Nine Divines wanted to finish Lorkhan for good?

      Less about destroying Lorkhan and more about not destroying the world.  I think it's a matter of the greater good in most things.

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    • It could be that they are all shezarrine, but this seems unlikely, you know for a fact that the Nerevarine is alive at the same time as the Hero of Kvatch when you overhear guards talk about how the Nerevarine journeyed to akavir during the events of oblivion (which is a little funny, I would think the nerevarine would come back after finding out morrowind was under attack) which assumes either the Nerevarine dies in Akavir (unlikely considering his power) or just doesn't care to come back. (Plothole?)  if nerevar was a shezarr then the nerevarine by definition is as well, in the lore specific shezarrines are mentioned: pelinal whitestrake, hjalti early beard, ysmir, Wulfharth, all incarnations of the underking. however neither the nerevarine or nerevar are on this list, furthermore, most shezarrines who are actually noted by lore are of the race of man. I'm not sure if its impossible for shezzarine to be mer, but I would imagine lorkhan would favor man to represent his actions. my conclusion then is that   nerevar (nor his incarnation) are in fact an embodiment/emissary/champion of lorkhan.

      as for the hero of kvatch becoming sheogorath (or at least gaining the title of Daedric prince of madness) it never really made much sense then that you see the original sheogorath in Skyrim and not the hero of kvatch. so did the real sheogorath just come back at some point in the 200 years and kick the hero of kvatch off his isles? or perhaps thats why he was on "vacation" in the first place, because the hero of kvatch is still there running things until the dovahkiin convinces sheogorath to return home?

      some of these mysteries could be results of dragon breaks (I feel that is how bethesda may officially deal with the Empire V Stormcloak war in future games if they don't do something more final with a DLC) however it is definitely impossible for them to litterally be the same person as we know nerevarine and the hero of kvatch were alive at the same time. time is more maleable to the spirits and aetherius however, so the thought of 2 people sharing the same (extremely heroic) soul at the same time is not completely out of the question, though evidence points against it...

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    • Battlemageftw wrote:
      It could be that they are all shezarrine, but this seems unlikely, you know for a fact that the Nerevarine is alive at the same time as the Hero of Kvatch when you overhear guards talk about how the Nerevarine journeyed to akavir...

      The last person dies and their life force is then transmitted into another person (be it already alive or being born) could be that the Hero of Kvatch said to Sheogorath the he wanted to quit and finally be over with his life, just a guess though.

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    • I was very interested in the idea of both the Aedra incarnation and the blood lineage theories. What if they were combined? The hero from Morrowind was "touched" or "blessed" by Aedra and this manifested itself somehow, biologically speaking. Then, the "hero gene" would have been passed down from hero to hero over the hundreds of years that the games cover. This would somewhat satisfy the Aedra/Divine intervention theory, while allowing heroes to be alive and possibly active at the same time.

      I also like the idea that the Aedra know about an extinction level event and are moving pieces around the board to ready the different races. I'd be interested to see how the White-Gold Concordant would play into that theory. They had to hate each other to really understand one another? Paralleling the Avengers movie plot? Alduin was sent forward because the warriors of that age weren't ready? Interesting to think about anyway.

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    • I suppose its not impossible for The hero of Kvatch to be the Nerevarines Son/brother/nephew/whatever and thus get a bloodline thing going (and assuming it would continue to the Dovahkiin), but that also seems unlikely, a very creative idea though.

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    • Boats... They say Nerevarine went to Akavir, he may have set off shortly before the events of Oblivion on a boat. A bad storm could of hit tearing the boat apart (I don't care how good of a fighter you are, good luck surviving that.) he could of died, right as the Hero of Kvatch spontainiusly came into existance, and the residents of Tamriel would be none the wiser.

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    • 69.178.97.186 wrote:
      first of all no they can't one reason is from arena to skyrim in time is about 2,000+ years secondly people say that sheogorath is the hero of kavatch because if you played the shivering isles DLC for oblivion you sorta turn into sheogorath.

      Somebody should of read a bit of the thread before commenting based just on the question in the title. And if it was 2,000+ years it still could be an elf.

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    • Battlemageftw wrote:

      as for the hero of kvatch becoming sheogorath (or at least gaining the title of Daedric prince of madness) it never really made much sense then that you see the original sheogorath in Skyrim and not the hero of kvatch. so did the real sheogorath just come back at some point in the 200 years and kick the hero of kvatch off his isles? or perhaps thats why he was on "vacation" in the first place, because the hero of kvatch is still there running things until the dovahkiin convinces sheogorath to return home?

      Much of Shivering Isles could have been a Sheogorath induced hallucination.

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    • As oakusify said nothing is set in stone these are all just theories untill proven. I believe it to be a little more than a coincidence that in every game that the player starts out as a prisoner. That ends up saving the entire province in every game, correct me if I'm wrong about Arena and Daggerfall I never played those. There is a possibility that the player is a creation of the Aedra with the same soul as the charictor you play as in Oblivion and so far back to the first game. Maybe the creations job is to stop cataclysmic events that Demora have caused to transpire to bring down the Aedra. This thread seems to heavily favor the player as Lorkhan and I cant dispute that only Betheda can. Maybe I'm right, but odds are I'm completely wrong.

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    • Impact605 wrote:
      As oakusify said nothing is set in stone these are all just theories untill proven. I believe it to be a little more than a coincidence that in every game that the player starts out as a prisoner. That ends up saving the entire province in every game, correct me if I'm wrong about Arena and Daggerfall I never played those. 

      For Arena, yes, you are infact a prisoner but if I'm not having Deja vu, let me tell you, its a prisoner in the Imperial Prisons. As for Daggerfall, unfortunetly no. Emperor invites you to his palace and sends you on a mission. Your boat crashes into a cave and you start from scratch from there on out.

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    • Thank you because I always feel left out of the loop on that when people start talking about Arena and Daggerfall I only write down what I heard about them.

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    • Go to the official Elder Scrolls Website (say you're 18) and there are free download links for the both of them. They were made in 1994 and 1996 so they might suck. 

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    • The Rim of the Sky wrote:
      Go to the official Elder Scrolls Website (say you're 18) and there are free download links for the both of them. They were made in 1994 and 1996 so they might suck. 

      Well I'm over 18 so that won't be hard, are they compatable with windows 8?

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    • Windows 7 I'm sure of, XP I guess, Vista probably, 8 I don't really know. 

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    • The Rim of the Sky wrote: Go to the official Elder Scrolls Website (say you're 18) and there are free download links for the both of them. They were made in 1994 and 1996 so they might suck. 

      Just because a game is old, doesn't mean it sucks. There are many old games that blow modern ones out of the water. I would take Finest Hour over any new call of duty game, ever. Sorry for being off topic, I had to get that out.

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    • Cpt. Nemo wrote:

      The Rim of the Sky wrote: Go to the official Elder Scrolls Website (say you're 18) and there are free download links for the both of them. They were made in 1994 and 1996 so they might suck. 

      Just because a game is old, doesn't mean it sucks. There are many old games that blow modern ones out of the water. I would take Finest Hour over any new call of duty game, ever. Sorry for being off topic, I had to get that out.

      I said that they might suck, not that they do. I've played them, I was just telling the person in advance that they might think that. They are good games, its not the graphics really, just the bugs and the way to get out.

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    • The Rim of the Sky wrote:

      Impact605 wrote:
      As oakusify said nothing is set in stone these are all just theories untill proven. I believe it to be a little more than a coincidence that in every game that the player starts out as a prisoner. That ends up saving the entire province in every game, correct me if I'm wrong about Arena and Daggerfall I never played those. 
      For Arena, yes, you are infact a prisoner but if I'm not having Deja vu, let me tell you, its a prisoner in the Imperial Prisons. As for Daggerfall, unfortunetly no. Emperor invites you to his palace and sends you on a mission. Your boat crashes into a cave and you start from scratch from there on out.

      Also I'm not crazy when I say this but I'm pretty sure the Hero from Arena is the Hero from Daggerfall. Because at the end of Arena you become his right hand man. And in Daggerfall the Emperor says that you have served him well as his right hand after saving him. So we know those two are connected. As for the rest it's really just speculation. I believe they are different people. But that's just me.

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    • All the heroes could be Shezzarines even at the same time, because perhaps Lorkhan seems like a spirit of heroic endevors and due to his essence being bound to Nirn, he might actually be in fragments.

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    • Cpt. Nemo wrote:

      The Rim of the Sky wrote: Go to the official Elder Scrolls Website (say you're 18) and there are free download links for the both of them. They were made in 1994 and 1996 so they might suck. 

      Just because a game is old, doesn't mean it sucks. There are many old games that blow modern ones out of the water. I would take Finest Hour over any new call of duty game, ever. Sorry for being off topic, I had to get that out.

      Finest hour was alright. But the original Call of Duty is so awesome, I still play it. Just so you know I agree with you old games rock. GoldenEye FTW!!!

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    • GoldenEye FTW!!!

      why didn't every shooter game keep a strafing button?

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    • Alright, guys. I know it's my fault, but let's get back on topic.

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    • Should we?

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    • I don't buy into the "Hero Gene Theory" due to a lack of time for children between Morrowind and Oblivion, and the fact that each hero can be of a wildly different race. (Who would do an Orc, right?)

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    • Yes we should. Anyways, I don't think they are the same person. Just that simple. None of them could be the aspects of Lorkhan nor Wulfharth because they would never be reincarnated as Elves. They are all very different Heros. If they were the same, then all the champions would have had Dragon Shouts. And be of Dragon blood. Also being of Dragon blood doesn't make the player character the reincarnation of Talos because there is Mirrak, and possibly other Dragonborns in history using them.

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    • Maybe when the last hero dies, a new person is struck by lightning and becomes the new hero.

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    • But not all the Heros are dead or at least we don't know the fates of them. They could all still be alive or maybe just the Naravarine. No one actually knows. I understand all the theories about characters recurring in the storyline (Lorkahn's aspects and/or champions being the same person under different titles over the whole timeline) but I don't think the player characters are related. Not enough similarities and completely different achievements in life. Sure they were all prisoners but what's a better way to start an adult character from scratch. It literally starts you from nothing, and that makes sense to want the player to work for everything they get.

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    • Not the Hero of Daggerfall

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    • What about the Unknown Champion and Hero of Daggerfell?

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    • Epzo wrote:
      What about the Unknown Champion and Hero of Daggerfell?

      Eternal Champion?

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    • Yes the Eternal Champion. Sorry my mind went south on me. Anyways they are the same person. And isn't the ending of Daggerfell all endings except the one where the Imperial City gets destroyed?

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    • If you are using Miraaks existence to state that they cannot be related to Talos, remember that miraak was the FIRST dragonborn. All others, Talos included, could be his descendent. 

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    • Wouldn't that be a turn of events, Miraak being a descendant of the Dovahkiin you play!

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    • ... A descendant? Would'nt it be the other way around? Miraak is the elder one :p

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    • Miraak couldn't be related to the Dragonborn other than by their shared Dragonblood. As for the current Dragonborn and Talos/Lorkhan/Shor, there is more that relates them other than by their Dragonblood (specific events in Sovngarde for instance).

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    • Msuth93 wrote: If you are using Miraaks existence to state that they cannot be related to Talos, remember that miraak was the FIRST dragonborn. All others, Talos included, could be his descendent. 

      He is the first Dragonborn but not the first with Dragonblood. I don't think he is the ancestor of anyone, he has been in the plane of Oblivion too long.

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    • Also off the topic of Dragonborn, the description of TES Morrowind does state that the hero is a reincarnate, not just someone who arises to the title of Nevarine. Not sure if this was already said

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    • Msuth93 wrote: Also off the topic of Dragonborn, the description of TES Morrowind does state that the hero is a reincarnate, not just someone who arises to the title of Nevarine. Not sure if this was already said

      The Nerevarine is the reincarnation of the Chimer King Indoril Nerevar. Hint hint why your character is called NEREVARine. And Nerevar is most defiantly not an aspect of Lorkhan. Read about Battle of Red Mountain and then you might understand.

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    • All heros are the same person just reincarnated! In the game where you weren't a prisoner that was the person from the game before that just the story carrying on. Akatosh created all heros in a prison or as a prisoner. Fact.

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    • 75.110.129.28 wrote: All heros are the same person just reincarnated! In the game where you weren't a prisoner that was the person from the game before that just the story carrying on. Akatosh created all heros in a prison or as a prisoner. Fact.

      No it isn't fact. You have no actual proof. The Eternal Champion was made a prisoner by Jagar Tharn, we know that his name is in fact Talin and was originally the Head of the Imperial Guard to the true Emperor. He was then freed, and saved the Emperor. He served the Emperor for more than 40 years. Then comes Morrowind where the player character finds out that they are the Nerevarine. The reincarnation of Nerevar. Basically making him a demi-god. Then comes the Hero of Kvatch hi was a nameless hero who may or may not have become the new Prince of Madness. And that brings us to our news guy, a nameless hero who happens to have Dragonblood in his vains. Basically making him a Demi-god. The only thing they all have in common is that they were prisoners. Which from a gameplay stand point is a pretty good place to start for an RPG because your character literally begans as the lowest of the low with nothing to his/her name. It has nothing to do with reincarnation.

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    • Maybe the Nerevarine, hero of Daggerfall, Eternal Champion, Hero of Kvatch and the Dovakiin are all dragonborn and their eternal soul went from one mortal body to another and, as there isnt any dragons in other game than in skyrim, it can be possible.

      As anybody with Corprus, the Nerevarine would be alive in Skyrim? The dragonblood makes the Dovahkiin immortal?

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    • I feel like no one listens to me sometimes. The Nerevarine is the reincarnation of Nerevar. Who was not a Dragonborn. If your character was a Dragonborn Bethesda would have recognized it somehow. In all their games. I just don't see the connection between the player characters and each other. I mean I suppose it is possible but it isn't fact, yet. Who knows maybe they will tell us maybe they won't ever tell us.

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    • I believe the prisoner thing has become partly a joke bethween the game creators and the players. When I played Skyrim for the first time I just laughed when Hadvar called me "prisoner". It made me feel like home.

      I know many people feel passionate about TES lore and the risk of over-interpretation is imminent.

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    • The funny thing is that these hero's could be spontainously created the moment you start playing as them, and the minds of the mortals warped to think that you were there from the get go. Don't you think it was a little strange that you had been on this long carriage ride, then as soon as your almost to the end of the road, (and you just started playing) Raolf asks you who you are? He's had at least an hour, probably more to ask you this stuff, why would he start then?

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    • Maybe you were unconcious?

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    • You probably fell asleep from the boring scenary.


      It's a stretch, but I prefer to think the hero in all the games is the same guy. Human. Imperial. Maybe Harrald Hairy Breeks. Why? Because I start each game with cheat codes. Max stats and skills and play at level 1 for the whole adventure.


      Sure, there are problems with the hypothesis. Especially involving Morrowind. But they aren't insurmountable.   Harrald Hairy Breeks was immortal. He could have survived all of the challenges that were required to fulfill the nerevarine prophecy. Heck, it makes more sense to me given the opening. The emperor knew about the prophecy from the elder scrolls and sent his immortal sidekick from the first two games off on another adventure to screw up another prophecy.


      That's basically your MO. You go someplace and screw up other people's plans and prophecies. It's a comedy of errors, really.


      The only flaw I see in this plan is that in game 4 you meet up with the Emperor and he doesn't know you. I like to think Patrick Stewart was senile at that point. See? It all makes sense.

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    • Problem, the Hero of Daggerfell/The Eternal Champion DIED at the end of Daggerfell. The Nerevarine is the reincarnation of Nerevar who wasn't an Imperial. The Nerevine could be any race this is true, but he is a new person. Every character is a new person in my opinion, whether they have been divinely created or helped to be in that position is still up for discussion.

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    • Skyrim sort of ties all the previous games together. Alduin's wall shows how the events of the past games were prophesised by the Akaviri, each ultimately being an omen of the end times, when Alduin would return to devour the world. 

      It is postulated that Alduin is Akatosh, although Alduin himself says he is the "First born of Akatosh".

      We could speculate that the heroes of each game are different incarnations of the same being, born purely to fullfil the next part of the prophesy. Or we can take it that each hero is an individual, chosen by the nine for the same purpose.

      The fact that all of the heroes begin as unnamed prisoners doesn't really add credibility to either argument. On the one hand, it is a consistent, recurring theme in the games which hints at a link of some kind... on the other hand, it is nothing more than a tradition of the Elder Scrolls games.

      Being a prisoner at the beginning, in effect creates a blank canvas for the player... You have an undefined criminal past and you are cut loose. This is what gives you the freedom of choice... do you become good, or evil. In effect it is a rebirth. To give a detailed back story would undermine the idea of free choice. For example, if the character's back story was that of a sefless hero, who was nothing but good. It would be a major jolt for him/her to suddenly decide to become a member of the Dark Brotherhood.

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    • I don't believe the Heros are directly related except for the Eternal Champion and the Hero of Daggerfall. Indirectly however is another question, and it is possible that one or some or all te Gods help push the Hero in the right direction or create one. I have explained my case already, yet it seems no one reads it because I have to keep explaining te same thing over and over again.

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    • You Guys Have Great Ideas But What About the Nerevanie Going To Akavir?

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    • We have talked about it and well, he could be alive and he could not. There really isn't anyway to know right now.

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    • And yet we have a blank canvas to create our heroes, so perhaps Bethesda looks to use that canvas as well to connect them together with our own immaginations.  They are our champions, have the nine's will kept such a being flowing through time without it's awareness?  Or by the whim of our thoughts absolutely no connection at all?  The path is ours to decide just as the whole game is.

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    • Well said. That is a good point, maybe there is only a connection if we want there to be. But thinking on that again, some of the endings of the Heros are kind of permanent.

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    • Why can't they all just be different people that have risen to the occasion? I mean aside from the Arena/Daggerfall Player Character, who is more than likely the same person.

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    • That's what I have been arguing but a lot of these people seem to be conspiracy theorist. Hanging on to rumors and threads. There is no solid evidence that they are related.

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    • I highly doubt it, i believe that each of the heroes was a prominent figure in each timeline of each respective series of TES, and they died like all mortals do, they were not some immortal being who can change his physical form into any race capable of erasing his/her memories when he wants to take on a new adventure. They are all different beings, individual beings, heroes of their time. If they were a descendant of the hero of daggerfall, of kvatch, the eternal champion, or the reincarnation of talos or the son of a god, we would never know.

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    • 180.194.30.143 wrote: I highly doubt it, i believe that each of the heroes was a prominent figure in each timeline of each respective series of TES, and they died like all mortals do, they were not some immortal being who can change his physical form into any race capable of erasing his/her memories when he wants to take on a new adventure. They are all different beings, individual beings, heroes of their time. If they were a descendant of the hero of daggerfall, of kvatch, the eternal champion, or the reincarnation of talos or the son of a god, we would never know.

      First I should remind you that all the Heros except the Dragonborn where alive in the Third Era and are separated by no more than 100 years I believe. Second the Eternal Champion and the Hero of Daggerfell are one and the same. Third I agree with you, they are not related.

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    • I find it to be inprobable that any of the heros are connected in any way shape or form as players do not always complete the main quest and could be evil, the sheogorath you meet in skyrim has to be oblivions hero as the god of order would exist instead, if the shivering isles had never been completed by the player and thus never killed him and he would have taken sheogorath's place and order would rule the era instead.

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    • 220.239.224.83 wrote: I find it to be inprobable that any of the heros are connected in any way shape or form as players do not always complete the main quest and could be evil, the sheogorath you meet in skyrim has to be oblivions hero as the god of order would exist instead, if the shivering isles had never been completed by the player and thus never killed him and he would have taken sheogorath's place and order would rule the era instead.

      What I think you failed to realize about Shivering Isles is that the Greymarch happens at the end of EVERY Era not just the Third Era, so you're wrong. There still would be a Sheogorath because his OTHER personality is the Daedric Prince of Order. This Greymarch has happened at least twice before. In addition no one is sure that Shivering Isles happened. You were after all under the influence of the Mad Prince.

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    • OR: We are reading to much into this and should accept that the Heroes are just ordinary people who rise to the occasion.

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    • Why do people insist on saying SI isn't cannon, or that the CoC isn't Sheo. It's been confirmed by the devs at a comic con, and really outside of "but my CoC wasn't a white guy!" there's never been a proof he isn't. Jyggalag says he'll grow into it, the devs confirmed it, Sheo more or less confirms it. It's been confirmed, we all know our choices don't matter in the lore, get over it.


      But back on topic, yeah, I've always thought the heroes were some sort of aspect of Shezar since most are related to the Elder Scrolls and pretty much saved the empire if not the world. If Pelinal was sent by the gods, why wouldn't the CoC be  who stopped a dremora invasion.?

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    • The only one that can be cannon is Arena's and daggerfall's. 

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    • To put it bluntly, no I don't think they are the same heroes in all the games. After all Nerevarine is a reincarnation of Nerevar, one of the tribunal-gods and it is said somewhere that after the story of Morrowind Nerevarine travels to Akavir. The Hero of Kvatch and the Dragonborn can't also be the same hero, because there's this huge thing in the way like umm.... 200years between their lives. So they probably aren't the same hero, nor the same Divine,Aedra,Daedra whatever-you-want-them-to-be. But there is the possibility that they are reincarnations of the Divines just not the same one.

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    • Shadow of the Wastes wrote:
      To put it bluntly, no I don't think they are the same heroes in all the games. After all Nerevarine is a reincarnation of Nerevar, one of the tribunal-gods and it is said somewhere that after the story of Morrowind Nerevarine travels to Akavir. The Hero of Kvatch and the Dragonborn can't also be the same hero, because there's this huge thing in the way like umm.... 200years between their lives. So they probably aren't the same hero, nor the same Divine,Aedra,Daedra whatever-you-want-them-to-be. But there is the possibility that they are reincarnations of the Divines just not the same one.

      Agreed. What about if they keep the hero's soul to make it be born again,but in another body,with a fresh,new mind (sounds kinda crazy)

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    • I always had the idea that they had that Fable thing going on where all the heroes are related to one another in some way. Be it sibling, ancestor, etc. Of course, there is also the fact that they might in fact be the Avatars of the Aedra. Stendarr would be good for the Hero of Kvatch considering the heavy emphasis on stopping Daedra. Akatosh would probably be it for the Dragonborn. In truth, the game may be hinting at some 10th (or 9th again depending on if you're an elf lover) Divine, which would be you, and these guys are ordinary people that the 10th (9th) Divine picked out in dodgeball selection and pitted them up against the world while assisting them with your power >.> Makes sense, if you want to break the 4th wall entirely, which Bethesda has shown they have no problem doing.

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    • 76.183.71.107 wrote:
      And yet we have a blank canvas to create our heroes, so perhaps Bethesda looks to use that canvas as well to connect them together with our own immaginations.  They are our champions, have the nine's will kept such a being flowing through time without it's awareness?  Or by the whim of our thoughts absolutely no connection at all?  The path is ours to decide just as the whole game is.

      Here is the thing, I suppose. I agree with him. Why? This is a ROLE PLAYING GAME. So you can put your characters past as whatever you like, they give you this blank slate, this blank past, for immersion effect. You ARE your hero. So if you wanted the Hero of Kvatch to be Dragon Born and not have it mentioned, It's your guy, He's dragonborn! If you want him to become the actual prince of Madness instead of it being a prank, then 200 years later get bored and hand the title off to a chicken in a Sheogorath Robot suit? Go for it! It's whatever your imagination comes up with. If it isn't clearly defined, it's up to you. Such as why you are in jail! I was in jail in all games for making love to the Emperors Wife and Daughter whilst playing a rock guitar solo on the lute, doing all of this on the desicrated corpse of Mara.

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    • 8.2.215.2 wrote:

      Here is the thing, I suppose. I agree with him. Why? This is a ROLE PLAYING GAME. So you can put your characters past as whatever you like, they give you this blank slate, this blank past, for immersion effect. You ARE your...

      That was amazing. QwQ

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    • Maybe the Heroes of the previous games were some kind of ancestors to the Dragonborn. 

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    • Arena and Daggerfall seem to be connected, but for the others probably not. When the Nerevarine disappears to Akavir, if he is still alive then he wouldn't be the same person as in Oblivion. However, it IS possible that they are all created spontaneously by the Nine when they are needed and are all of the same creation. The theory of this being a massive setup to stop something from happening that hasn't yet happened is an interesting one tho.

      As Nerevarine is a reincarnation, and also has contracted Corprus (I believe making them have the possibility of living for thousands of years), it would be interesting to either see them return from Akavir and meet the Dragonborn in Skyrim, OR to have them be part of TES VI whenever it happens. If TES VI was done on Summerset Isles then there could be a massive mer war in which the Nerevarine is part of either as turning back into his Chimer form and leading an Akavirian army against the nords and imperials, and possibly the Altmer, or even playable. If he's playable, then it could be that you are captured returning to Tamriel and taken prisoner (classis TES), and along the way lose your memory of what happened, but then discover you are Nerevarine returned from Akavir. That would allow you to recover some 'important knowledge' from the other continent to use in the mer war.

      By this time, the mer would be taking over the Empire as the Imperials are falling and the Nords don't do much about stuff, so taking on the Aldmeri Dominion to wipe out the Altmer would restore peace to the land. Finally, it seems that although you save each province you play in, they are all anti-Aldmeri Dominion, so I guess you'd have to wipe out the Altmer.

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    • if there not the same people then there is still another Septim out there somewhere because to be Dovahkiin you must be of the Septim blood line so Martin Septim is not the last.

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    • Not related at all but:

      Jyggalag!

      The Daedric lord of Order!

      ...Or biscuits...

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    • 65.191.57.207, the Septim line is a different kind of Dovakiin, they do not actually have dragon blood (except for Tiber Septim).

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    • StormKhajiit wrote:
      65.191.57.207, the Septim line is a different kind of Dovakiin, they do not actually have dragon blood (except for Tiber Septim).


      i think they are entirely not a Dovahkiin, they just have septim blood

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    • There have been more dragon born then the septim line. Alessia was infused with the essence of akatosh, her soul was fused with the amulet of kings. Reman was a dragonborn, though there may a claim of lineage from alessia. There is no mention of a lineage from Reman to Tiber septim, whether you go with the imperial version of his rise or the arcturian heresy.

      On the point of Aedra manifesting themselves, there are the examples of Pelinial Whitestrike and Morihaus both of whom were agents of either the eight aedra or shor/lorkhan. So I think a case could be made for Aedric intervention.

      People have mentioned time between characters as being an issue, yet Akatosh is the master of time itself. There are events were time is broken by him in warps, so I dont think the gaps of time between each hero is necessarily a problem.

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    • Almost everyone here has spelled Nerevarine wrong;.

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    • WARNING: Spoilers! don't look down, unless you beat the games

      Okay, so, lets look at it this way, the hero of arena was given a one year cool shapeshiffting power by one of the nine divines for his efforts to save the emporor and send his imposter to oblivion using the staff of chaos,

      second game...well, who gives a crap about the second game.

      spin offs, he goes on quests using his shape shiffting powers to change his identity, from kicking the crap outta merhumes dagon, to looking for a girl. He also, in morrowind, done...SOMTHING, and in the add-ons he did stuff people can really give a crap about, and in the elderscrols OBLIVION he kicks the crap outta merhumes dagon AGAIN, becomes sheogorath, AND watches ureil septem get killed, AND saves the world AND takes a trip to skyrim. There, he turns into a nord, gets captured, and in the procces, learns he's dragonborn, slays evil dragon, becomes a werewolf, and gets married to a companion's guild member, becomes the harbringer, and decides to take a crap and prays that by the time another crisis comes up, he has leveled up so much, his strengh is at TALOS level. duh duh DUUUUUUUHHHHH!! to be contninued.

      in a nut shell, your character goes on a series of amazing adventures, anlong with being forced to lug around a 20 weight elder scroll, and killing dragons, and eventually becoming sheogorath, he waits for a cross over between the fallout universe, and the elderscrolls universe.

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    • Battlemageftw wrote:
      It could be that they are all shezarrine, but this seems unlikely, you know for a fact that the Nerevarine is alive at the same time as the Hero of Kvatch when you overhear guards talk about how the Nerevarine journeyed to akavir during the events of oblivion (which is a little funny, I would think the nerevarine would come back after finding out morrowind was under attack) which assumes either the Nerevarine dies in Akavir (unlikely considering his power) or just doesn't care to come back. (Plothole?)  if nerevar was a shezarr then the nerevarine by definition is as well, in the lore specific shezarrines are mentioned: pelinal whitestrake, hjalti early beard, ysmir, Wulfharth, all incarnations of the underking. however neither the nerevarine or nerevar are on this list, furthermore, most shezarrines who are actually noted by lore are of the race of man. I'm not sure if its impossible for shezzarine to be mer, but I would imagine lorkhan would favor man to represent his actions. my conclusion then is that   nerevar (nor his incarnation) are in fact an embodiment/emissary/champion of lorkhan.

      as for the hero of kvatch becoming sheogorath (or at least gaining the title of Daedric prince of madness) it never really made much sense then that you see the original sheogorath in Skyrim and not the hero of kvatch. so did the real sheogorath just come back at some point in the 200 years and kick the hero of kvatch off his isles? or perhaps thats why he was on "vacation" in the first place, because the hero of kvatch is still there running things until the dovahkiin convinces sheogorath to return home?

      some of these mysteries could be results of dragon breaks (I feel that is how bethesda may officially deal with the Empire V Stormcloak war in future games if they don't do something more final with a DLC) however it is definitely impossible for them to litterally be the same person as we know nerevarine and the hero of kvatch were alive at the same time. time is more maleable to the spirits and aetherius however, so the thought of 2 people sharing the same (extremely heroic) soul at the same time is not completely out of the question, though evidence points against it...

      If you watch a video on youtube the person who does Sheogorath's voice HAS stated that the Hero of Kavatch/Champion of Cyrodiil had become Sheogorath through the power of the Wabaajak. (sorry for any Mistakes) Talos is said to have mantled Lorkan but that is murky.(I would like to point out he did become a god because if he didn't you would not have been able to finish Oblivion as in the main story it requires you to gather the blood of a divine) If you go by lore the Nerevarine is most likely a Dark Elf, Dragonborn Nord, Hero of Kavtch Imperial. (Never played Arena or Daggerfall would like to though. But these are the default characters of the three games Morrowind Oblivion and Skyrim. These are the races that are depicted as you just start the game) So unless it is divine intervention than there is little to no chance of any of these hero's being related.

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    • 68.93.104.57 wrote:
      Battlemageftw wrote:
      It could be that they are all shezarrine, but this seems unlikely, you know for a fact that the Nerevarine is alive at the same time as the Hero of Kvatch when you overhear guards talk about how the Nerevarine journeyed to akavir during the events of oblivion (which is a little funny, I would think the nerevarine would come back after finding out morrowind was under attack) which assumes either the Nerevarine dies in Akavir (unlikely considering his power) or just doesn't care to come back. (Plothole?)  if nerevar was a shezarr then the nerevarine by definition is as well, in the lore specific shezarrines are mentioned: pelinal whitestrake, hjalti early beard, ysmir, Wulfharth, all incarnations of the underking. however neither the nerevarine or nerevar are on this list, furthermore, most shezarrines who are actually noted by lore are of the race of man. I'm not sure if its impossible for shezzarine to be mer, but I would imagine lorkhan would favor man to represent his actions. my conclusion then is that   nerevar (nor his incarnation) are in fact an embodiment/emissary/champion of lorkhan.

      as for the hero of kvatch becoming sheogorath (or at least gaining the title of Daedric prince of madness) it never really made much sense then that you see the original sheogorath in Skyrim and not the hero of kvatch. so did the real sheogorath just come back at some point in the 200 years and kick the hero of kvatch off his isles? or perhaps thats why he was on "vacation" in the first place, because the hero of kvatch is still there running things until the dovahkiin convinces sheogorath to return home?

      some of these mysteries could be results of dragon breaks (I feel that is how bethesda may officially deal with the Empire V Stormcloak war in future games if they don't do something more final with a DLC) however it is definitely impossible for them to litterally be the same person as we know nerevarine and the hero of kvatch were alive at the same time. time is more maleable to the spirits and aetherius however, so the thought of 2 people sharing the same (extremely heroic) soul at the same time is not completely out of the question, though evidence points against it...

      If you watch a video on youtube the person who does Sheogorath's voice HAS stated that the Hero of Kavatch/Champion of Cyrodiil had become Sheogorath through the power of the Wabaajak. (sorry for any Mistakes) Talos is said to have mantled Lorkan but that is murky.(I would like to point out he did become a god because if he didn't you would not have been able to finish Oblivion as in the main story it requires you to gather the blood of a divine) If you go by lore the Nerevarine is most likely a Dark Elf, Dragonborn Nord, Hero of Kavtch Imperial. (Never played Arena or Daggerfall would like to though. But these are the default characters of the three games Morrowind Oblivion and Skyrim. These are the races that are depicted as you just start the game) So unless it is divine intervention than there is little to no chance of any of these hero's being related.

      Here is the Video.

      MAGFest X - Wes Johnson Q&A

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    • Cpt. Nemo wrote:
      I don't buy into the "Hero Gene Theory" due to a lack of time for children between Morrowind and Oblivion, and the fact that each hero can be of a wildly different race. (Who would do an Orc, right?)


      The Grey Prince's dad, Lord Lovidicus did, love is blind, and all that.

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    • I believe that each game although being interconnected is singular in that, each 'Prisoner' are total unique, even thoug hstated as male the species is not associated with each hero, an example is the Nerevarine, most like he was a Dunmer and the default setting of the Dragonborn was Nord its also possible the Hero of Kvatch is an Imperial. Taking this into acount it's unlikely Direct bloodlines are involved, it is more like that they are total unconnected and choosen only because of raw coincidence, or through some universal design

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    • I never actually played the game, but in Oblivion doesn't the Hero of kvatch turn into the new sheogorath?

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    • Yes, in the add-on Shivering Isles, but not in the base game.

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    • DarthOrc wrote:
      Ye, in the add-on Shivering Isles, but not in the base game.

      Well, sheogorath is in Skyrim. So that means Dovahkiin and him are the same people.

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    • Dylanisthebest123 wrote:
      DarthOrc wrote:
      Ye, in the add-on Shivering Isles, but not in the base game.
      Well, sheogorath is in Skyrim. So that means Dovahkiin and him are the same people.


      How?

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    • Im of a mind that the whole shivering isles episode may have been a manipulation by the mad god. Yet im not sure how the dragonborn meeting Sheogorath makes them both the same people, that would seem to make the opposite true.

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    • NOT the same people*

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    • In Shivering Isles it is revealed that Sheogorath was once the god of order and was by the other Daedra turned into the thing that he hated most,a god of Madness,one day a year Sheogorath returns to his ancient form,the Hero of Kvatch interferes removing the curse from Sheogorah, bringing the god of order back and becoming himself the god of madness

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    • If they are not the same person, then they most likely be of the same bloodline. Think about it, in all the ES games I have played (Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim) I prefer to be an Imperial with similar features. I'm sure I'm not the only one who does this.

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    • Each character in the games is whoever you want it to be, you can make up your own lore for them and the entire series if you want to (e.g. Mehrunes Dagon is actually a Rhinoc in disguise) but when someone in-game contradicts that it may ruin your immersion a little.

      The way I make up my lore is that I take everything that Bethesda gives me and I work around it, filling in the gaps. Bethesda doesn't go into too much detail with the main characters because if they did there would be nothing left to the players imagination. But at the same time if they said nothing they would have to keep the games in places where there is no chance that the heroes would be mentioned which for some (Hero of Kvatch, Neveranie) this is impossible.

      They managed to do it quite well with the Hero of Kvatch by setting Skyrim 200 years later, this gave them a tonne of material and made it so that the Oblivion Crisis is now history so not many people are going to be walking around saying "Gee its a good thing that Khajiit/Nord/Redguard/Orc/Vampire/Women/Man/Arch-Mage/Daedric Prince Hero saved us all from the daedra with his/her Magic/Axe/Sword/Bow/Fists/Singing. Get what I mean?

      I create my characters in a way that means they fit in nicely with what Bethesda has given me but at the same time I get to fully flesh them out. For example I think the idea that the Neveraine saved Vvardenfell and became Arch-Mage and became head of the fighters guild and became head of the houses, etc. is ridiculous. How could, or why would, one person do all this? So I make up my own lore that every faction is a different character. 

      For example. In Oblivion I have a seperate character as Arch-Mage, another for the Dark Brotherhood, and another for thieves guild and so on. In essence my player characters are simply heroes. They are different people each game and they get thier own cool destiny but they remain realistic. My Main Quest character in Oblivion for example goes like this(in a nutshell): Becomes hero of Kvatch, stops the oblivion crisis, then revives the Knights of the Nine and after that goes into Sheogoraths realm hoping to prevent any further people from exiting the portal insane and instead stops the graymarch and becomes the Daedric Prince himself, The End, finito, thats his destiny and he does no more. Meanwhile a different character becomes Arch-Mage and defeats Manimarco and Buys Frostcrag spire, while at the same time someone else becomes the Dark Brotherhood listener and becomes a vampire etc. etc. 

      This means I have all the quests and events that happen in that game completed but not with one super-god type hero that can do everything, it also means I can create cool interactions with them, for example if my Dark Brotherhood character becomes a vampire he then does not age, so what stops him from being listener during the events of Skyrim? Simple, he is defeated and killed by one of my other characters.

      So in summary I don't believe that every protagonist is the same person becasue I create different ones every time, ones that fit in the lore given to me by Bethesda (so my game remains immersive) but at the same time I have lots of fun creating all these different heros (or villains) and thinking of how they would interact with each other.

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    • Flamedude22 wrote:
      There's about a 96.7% chance that little to none of the plot of Shivering Isles even happened. We're dealing with the Daedric Prince of Madness here, we probably never even left Cyrodill.

      No, I personally disagree with this, partly though. The guard outside the entrance says that you disppear, and you can even witness the effects of the Shivering Isles when you return to Cyrodiil. So unless you play through the Shivering Isles and return to Tamriel only to have the rest of the game seen as a dream, then it all happened. The last part of my objection is that Sheogorath told the Hero of Kvatch that he would only have to rule until he returns. (Then there is the fact that if you go to the Shivering Isle and put on clothes native to it, then go back to Tamriel, you would technically be running around naked.....ughhh....)

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    • Koocookloc wrote:
      Flamedude22 wrote:
      There's about a 96.7% chance that little to none of the plot of Shivering Isles even happened. We're dealing with the Daedric Prince of Madness here, we probably never even left Cyrodill.

      No, I personally disagree with this, partly though. The guard outside the entrance says that you disppear, and you can even witness the effects of the Shivering Isles when you return to Cyrodiil. So unless you play through the Shivering Isles and return to Tamriel only to have the rest of the game seen as a dream, then it all happened. The last part of my objection is that Sheogorath told the Hero of Kvatch that he would only have to rule until he returns. (Then there is the fact that if you go to the Shivering Isle and put on clothes native to it, then go back to Tamriel, you would technically be running around naked.....ughhh....)

      Look, I have to believe it happened, but I have to give the guy some credit, it is the Daedric prince of madness after all...

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    • I feel that all heroes are part of some sort of Divine Legacy. Think of it. Each one did something remarkable despite the fact all started out as low lifes. I think that the Nine wipe the memories, destroy the links, and put the hero in these situations. I feel that they are all kin, which would explain why each one has it's power- they inherited it from the hero/heroine in Arena. So is the Dragonborn a decendent of Sheogorath, the Hero of Kvatch? Possibly. ;)

      Also, doesn't Sheogorath spiritually or physically fuse with the Hero of Kvatch? If so, that means our Dragonborn may also be Daedric royalty.

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    • 207.144.95.44 wrote:
      I feel that all heroes are part of some sort of Divine Legacy. Think of it. Each one did something remarkable despite the fact all started out as low lifes. I think that the Nine wipe the memories, destroy the links, and put the hero in these situations. I feel that they are all kin, which would explain why each one has it's power- they inherited it from the hero/heroine in Arena. So is the Dragonborn a decendent of Sheogorath, the Hero of Kvatch? Possibly. ;)

      Also, doesn't Sheogorath spiritually or physically fuse with the Hero of Kvatch? If so, that means our Dragonborn may also be Daedric royalty.

      Interesting, But the Sheogorath fusing thing has to be impossible, after all you do meet him in Skyrim and Oblivion......

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    • @King of Skyrim

      I have three possibible theories for this. 1; A sibling to the Hero could have kept the liniage of the Arena hero going, meaning it would eventually lead up to the Dragonborn. 2; The Hero had a child before his/her quest began. This would obviously continue the timeline. 3; After the Hero became Sheogorath, they could have had their child and left it to mortal parents to raise. Also, it could be the same person in Skyrim. Daedric Lords do live a long time, don't they? 

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    • (View for III IV & V)

      It has to be pointed out that due to the Nerevarines connection to Azura, and with the Nine being essentially imperial Deities, and the daedric princes attempts to manipulate the protaginists, aswell as the likelyhood that they all engaged in one 'immoral' acts or another it's highly unlikely that any of the heroes are avatars for the Nine.

      It's possible they're all the same person, since the Nerevarine becomes immortal, and Dunmer have long lives anyway (assuming Nerevar is incarnated as a Dunmer) however that would mean that the Dovahkiin meet him/herself as Sheogorath.

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    • Neloth be alive in Dragonborn...he wasn't in Morrowind ;) so the canon isn't always strong.

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    • 86.24.196.33 wrote:
      (View for III IV & V)

      It has to be pointed out that due to the Nerevarines connection to Azura, and with the Nine being essentially imperial Deities, and the daedric princes attempts to manipulate the protaginists, aswell as the likelyhood that they all engaged in one 'immoral' acts or another it's highly unlikely that any of the heroes are avatars for the Nine.

      It's possible they're all the same person, since the Nerevarine becomes immortal, and Dunmer have long lives anyway (assuming Nerevar is incarnated as a Dunmer) however that would mean that the Dovahkiin meet him/herself as Sheogorath.

      In Oblivion, if you do the Shivering Isles questline then go to Sheagorath's shrine to do his Daedric quest, Haskill says how sad it is you've taken to worshipping yourself.

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    • I myself played Morrowind and Oblivion as if the hero was the same person, because they are in a relatively short time span between the two games. I then picture the Dovahkiin as a descendant of the Hero. 

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    • how long is the time gap between morrowind and oblivion in the gameplay? (sorry if my english is so bad)

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    • i'm not sure but i think it's 30-something years.

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    • In the idle chatter of oblivion you can overhear peopel talking about the Nerevarine leaving Tamriel to go to Akavir

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    • Rukathesoldier wrote:
      i'm not sure but i think it's 30-something years.

      30 years?

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    • He is just who you want to be. Is for this that bethesda not give us nothing about the past of the your hero. He can be the same nord in all games with the same name you choose that. You can create with yor imagination the same story with all the heros of all games. Or you can choose to be a complet defferen character in all games other name other races and other gender and construct what you want about tha past of it. Is a game and is suposse to have all the scenarios that you want.

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    • He is just who you want to be nothing less nothing more is just a game people !!

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    • This entire conversation is a bit of a mind-f*ck

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    • I think they are members of a faction possibly created and blessed by the Aedra and Daedra to become members of other factions and to control events to explain why you can join a bunch of factions and your mission is as depends based on the game and you use the factions and guilds as resources

      Perhaps this faction is the blades but im not sure because i dont know if they played a major role in the games before Morrowind

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    • dont know if someone already said this because i didn't read ALL of them but i think the dragon born dosen't fight and live like all other soldirs because he has a incredible sense for adventuree...aaaaaaaaaaaand i just dropped my controller and shouted mark of death on cicero...

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    • Don't worry about it.. Cicero's a stupid bastard anyways.

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    • I like to think that all the heros of each game are related(This would be true for those like me, I'm ALWAYS an Argonian, I've tried to something else like a Imperial, but I would die from the stupidest things. though strangly I was better as a Dunmer, but best as an Argonian. it's kind of creepy. 0_o). I mean, it makes a little sense dosn't it? A family line of heros. The fact that your always a prisoner in the beging of the games? Cowincidint? I think not( Sorry I can't spell XD ).

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    • BryanNK wrote:
      how long is the time gap between morrowind and oblivion in the gameplay? (sorry if my english is so bad)


      A few decades, as Uriel the VII is alive and ruling in both. I can't find an exact date for either, sadly.

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    • Ambiesusi wrote:
      BryanNK wrote:
      how long is the time gap between morrowind and oblivion in the gameplay? (sorry if my english is so bad)

      A few decades, as Uriel the VII is alive and ruling in both. I can't find an exact date for either, sadly.

      i just looked it up. it's 6 years.

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    • Rukathesoldier wrote:
      Ambiesusi wrote:
      BryanNK wrote:
      how long is the time gap between morrowind and oblivion in the gameplay? (sorry if my english is so bad)

      A few decades, as Uriel the VII is alive and ruling in both. I can't find an exact date for either, sadly.
      i just looked it up. it's 6 years.

      What really? Dang. I need to learn how to count...

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    • Ambiesusi wrote:
      Rukathesoldier wrote:
      Ambiesusi wrote:
      BryanNK wrote:
      how long is the time gap between morrowind and oblivion in the gameplay? (sorry if my english is so bad)

      A few decades, as Uriel the VII is alive and ruling in both. I can't find an exact date for either, sadly.
      i just looked it up. it's 6 years.
      What really? Dang. I need to learn how to count...

      How about, Arena to Morrowind?

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    • The Hero of Daggerfall was technically killed thanks to the Warp of the West, so the heroes of each game being the same person or descendants of each other is not possible.

      The only heroes to have had a "divine" nature of birth mentioned were the Nerevarine and the Dragonborn. But since the Nerevarine was the immortal reincarnation of Indoril Nerevar (who could still potentially be alive) and the Dragonborn was a dragon's soul in a mortal shell, they definitely were not the same person. It also rules out the Nerevarine being a dragonborn since they were the reincarnation of a mortal, not a dragon.

      The only lineage if ANY that I could think of that the Dragonborn would descend from, would be that of Saint Alessia's bloodline, probably as an off-shoot before Tiber Septim was born. But there was no proof of even this being the case.

      The fact is, there's no evidence of any of the heroes being related. Whether by blood or by divine intervention. And in reality, evidence seems to suggest the vary opposite of those notions, if not outright disproving some. So unless something comes up in-universe or by word of god (or in your fan-fic's universe), it stands that the heroes are unrelated.

      /thread

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    • He's dead?

      Damn that just ruined my day...

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    • Frankly, I would love to see all three heroes just meet up somewhere beyond the boundaries of time, and just have a conversation with each other and discuss what they've done to save the world.

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    • Robotic35 wrote:
      Frankly, I would love to see all three heroes just meet up somewhere beyond the boundaries of time, and just have a conversation with each other and discuss what they've done to save the world.

      Yeah that would be pretty awesome.

      "I saved Nirn during the Oblivion Crisis"!

      "Oh yeah? I saved the Emporer from Jager Tharn"!

      "Bitch please, I saved Morrowind from Dagoth Ur"!

      "STFU, I saved Daggerfall"!

      "None of you bitches have anything on me, I went to Sovngard and back for gods sakes"!

      That would be epic...

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    • Robotic35 wrote:
      Frankly, I would love to see all three heroes just meet up somewhere beyond the boundaries of time, and just have a conversation with each other and discuss what they've done to save the world.

      Where are you getting three from?...

      King of Skyrim wrote:

      Yeah that would be pretty awesome.

      "I saved Nirn during the Oblivion Crisis"!

      "Oh yeah? I saved the Emporer from Jager Tharn"!

      "Bitch please, I saved Morrowind from Dagoth Ur"!

      "STFU, I saved Daggerfall"!

      "None of you bitches have anything on me, I went to Sovngard and back for gods sakes"!

      That would be epic...

      "Pfft, I became the Daedric Prince of Madness and have my OWN plane of Oblivion."

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    • Graviscalar wrote:
      Robotic35 wrote:
      Frankly, I would love to see all three heroes just meet up somewhere beyond the boundaries of time, and just have a conversation with each other and discuss what they've done to save the world.
      Where are you getting three from?...


      King of Skyrim wrote:

      Yeah that would be pretty awesome.

      "I saved Nirn during the Oblivion Crisis"!

      "Oh yeah? I saved the Emporer from Jager Tharn"!

      "Bitch please, I saved Morrowind from Dagoth Ur"!

      "STFU, I saved Daggerfall"!

      "None of you bitches have anything on me, I went to Sovngard and back for gods sakes"!

      That would be epic...

      "Pfft, I became the Daedric Prince of Madness and have my OWN plane of Oblivion."

      "Bitch please, I kill dragons as a hobby"! LOL

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    • Graviscalar wrote:
      Robotic35 wrote:
      Frankly, I would love to see all three heroes just meet up somewhere beyond the boundaries of time, and just have a conversation with each other and discuss what they've done to save the world.
      Where are you getting three from?...


      In Morrowind there was the Nerevarine from prophecy, then the Hero of Kvatch, and then the Dragonborn and heck, there's probably even more heroes from games before Morrowind.

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    • Robotic35 wrote:
      Graviscalar wrote:
      Robotic35 wrote:
      Frankly, I would love to see all three heroes just meet up somewhere beyond the boundaries of time, and just have a conversation with each other and discuss what they've done to save the world.
      Where are you getting three from?...

      In Morrowind there was the Nerevarine from prophecy, then the Hero of Kvatch, and then the Dragonborn and heck, there's probably even more heroes from games before Morrowind.


      There is. Ever heard of The Elder Scrolls 1 Arena and The Elder Scrolls 2 Daggerfall?

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    • Yeah, though I don't know what the heroes from those games were referred to as.

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    • 71.59.136.100 wrote:
      Robotic35 wrote:
      Graviscalar wrote:
      Robotic35 wrote:
      Frankly, I would love to see all three heroes just meet up somewhere beyond the boundaries of time, and just have a conversation with each other and discuss what they've done to save the world.
      Where are you getting three from?...

      In Morrowind there was the Nerevarine from prophecy, then the Hero of Kvatch, and then the Dragonborn and heck, there's probably even more heroes from games before Morrowind.

      There is. Ever heard of The Elder Scrolls 1 Arena and The Elder Scrolls 2 Daggerfall?

      Shh, those are just figments of our imagination...

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    • 192.111.69.177 wrote:
      Yeah, though I don't know what the heroes from those games were referred to as.

      The other game's heroes are -

      Arena - The Eternal Champion. Daggerfall - The Agent. Battlespire - The Apprentice Shadowkey - the Soul of Conflict. Stormhold - The Master Tunnel Rat.

      The hero of Dawnstar didn't get a title neither did Cyrus the hero of Redguard.

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    • AzuraKnight wrote:
      192.111.69.177 wrote:
      Yeah, though I don't know what the heroes from those games were referred to as.
      The other game's heroes are -

      Arena - The Eternal Champion. Daggerfall - The Agent. Battlespire - The Apprentice Shadowkey - the Soul of Conflict. Stormhold - The Master Tunnel Rat.

      The hero of Dawnstar didn't get a title neither did Cyrus the hero of Redguard.

      I thought it was "The Hero of Daggerfall" I don't remember "The Agent"

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    • How are they the same if you get the option to choose if they are either female or male?

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    • XRainbowniumx wrote:
      How are they the same if you get the option to choose if they are either female or male?

      Loki Lauffeyson turned into a woman once...

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    • Battlemageftw wrote:
      It could be that they are all shezarrine, but this seems unlikely, you know for a fact that the Nerevarine is alive at the same time as the Hero of Kvatch when you overhear guards talk about how the Nerevarine journeyed to akavir during the events of oblivion (which is a little funny, I would think the nerevarine would come back after finding out morrowind was under attack) which assumes either the Nerevarine dies in Akavir (unlikely considering his power) or just doesn't care to come back. (Plothole?)  if nerevar was a shezarr then the nerevarine by definition is as well, in the lore specific shezarrines are mentioned: pelinal whitestrake, hjalti early beard, ysmir, Wulfharth, all incarnations of the underking. however neither the nerevarine or nerevar are on this list, furthermore, most shezarrines who are actually noted by lore are of the race of man. I'm not sure if its impossible for shezzarine to be mer, but I would imagine lorkhan would favor man to represent his actions. my conclusion then is that   nerevar (nor his incarnation) are in fact an embodiment/emissary/champion of lorkhan.

      as for the hero of kvatch becoming sheogorath (or at least gaining the title of Daedric prince of madness) it never really made much sense then that you see the original sheogorath in Skyrim and not the hero of kvatch. so did the real sheogorath just come back at some point in the 200 years and kick the hero of kvatch off his isles? or perhaps thats why he was on "vacation" in the first place, because the hero of kvatch is still there running things until the dovahkiin convinces sheogorath to return home?

      some of these mysteries could be results of dragon breaks (I feel that is how bethesda may officially deal with the Empire V Stormcloak war in future games if they don't do something more final with a DLC) however it is definitely impossible for them to litterally be the same person as we know nerevarine and the hero of kvatch were alive at the same time. time is more maleable to the spirits and aetherius however, so the thought of 2 people sharing the same (extremely heroic) soul at the same time is not completely out of the question, though evidence points against it...

      would like to say that when a deadra dies on the mortal plane their spirit travels to thir original plane ant their bodys reform so when the hero of kavach dies on the mortal plane his spirit travels to the shivering isles and reforms in to have the same apperance as the old sheogorath

      p.s. sorry about grammer just got a prothstetic hand and learning to type with it.

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    • 69.178.97.186 wrote:
      first of all no they can't one reason is from arena to skyrim in time is about 2,000+ years secondly people say that sheogorath is the hero of kavatch because if you played the shivering isles DLC for oblivion you sorta turn into sheogorath.

      its not 2,000 years lol its 240 years

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    • Sporkonafork wrote:
      69.178.97.186 wrote:
      first of all no they can't one reason is from arena to skyrim in time is about 2,000+ years secondly people say that sheogorath is the hero of kavatch because if you played the shivering isles DLC for oblivion you sorta turn into sheogorath.
      its not 2,000 years lol its 240 years

      I'm supporting this, as ESO will be the earliest-set game in the franchise.  It is almost 1,000 years (about 950, actually) before the events of Skyrim.  This makes the logic very, very flawed.  An era is not 1,000 years each, or any number of years for that matter.  An era is marked at the beginning and end of major events in history.  For example, the Fourth Era begins, quite literally, when you finish the Oblivion Crisis (the end of the main quest of TES: IV).

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    • The Heroes can't all be the same, as many of them represent different (and sometimes opposing) interests. For example Nerevar was a champion of the good Daedra, Azura specifically, and I highly doubt Azura's Moon and Star would act against her interests (and against all the other sane Daedra) by freeing Jygalagg from the curse which the Daedra bound him by.

      The most likely answer is that these heroes are just independent champions for a particular diety or pantheon alliance. The main reason for this is that many of the main events or sponsors for each champion might not go well with each other (e.g. Nerevar severing the Heart of Lorkhan from the dimension might not be in Shor's best interest theoretically, and thus not in the Dovahkiin's best interest).

      One last proof is that Hero of Kvatch was incapable of actually wearing the Amulet of Kings (without it slipping of instantly), as it can only be worn by a Dragonborn or one of the Dragonblood, proving the Hero of Kvatch and future Sheogorath was neither.

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    • the charchters can not be the same person they live years apart can be any race gender and have any affilation they want plus the hero of kavatch became a god himself.

      if he was adra or some other king of god then why do no deadric lords sense comment or react to you as anything other than mortal and let you become there champion surly a adra would not bend to the wills of evil??

      the dragonborn mentions his family are faraway so he ha/has a family

      it is possable they embody the same "spirit" (maybe the same spirit that guided talos) or the same blessing of the devines but the player is a diffrent person/body/soul

      I prefer to think of elder scrolls as a game of what ifs... what if the hero of kvatch served the lord of madness.... what if the dragonborn was a vimpire lord

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    • The Mighty Steve wrote:

      the dragonborn mentions his family are faraway so he ha/has a family

      You can choose if they are far away; you had two options in No One Escapes Cidhna Mine and after the Dawnguard DLC Questline is done Serena asks too.

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    • This is rich...

      You guys should really go to uesp.net


      Arena and daggerfall heroes are the same person.

      However, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim heroes are different persons.

      Do you think the emperor (or any other person in the empire) wouldn't recognize the hero of arena/daggerfall in morrowind???? Also in Oblivion you can clearly hear people talking about the Nerevarine, and that he is in Akavir. Skyrim's hero would be HUNDREDS of years old if he was the nerevarine too by the way...

      Skyrim's Sheogorath is the same person as the hero of Kvatch/Bruma, since in the Shivering isles the hero became the first mortal to become a daedric prince, and the old sheogorath became the daedric prince of order (became his former self again)

      End of disscussion.

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    • 201.232.97.77 wrote:

      Skyrim's Sheogorath is the same person as the hero of Kvatch/Bruma, since in the Shivering isles the hero became the first mortal to become a daedric prince, and the old sheogorath became the daedric prince of order (became his former self again)

      True, if the Sheogorath in Skyrim is actually the Hero of Kvatch then that makes this discussion not even possible. The Dragonborn and the Hero of Kvatch are heroes, two different ones. So yeah, they are all different.

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    • 201.232.97.77 wrote:
      Arena and daggerfall heroes are the same person.

      Really? I am not so sure about that...

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    • King of Skyrim wrote:
      201.232.97.77 wrote:
      Arena and daggerfall heroes are the same person.
      Really? I am not so sure about that...

      I think someone forgot to tell them that speculations aren't facts.

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    • I didnt read any of this so Ill just put my two cents in. Oblivion happened 200 years before Skyrim took place. So how could the charcter be that old if they are mortal?

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    • P.S ive only played Skyrim. just really got into the series so If im missing something. ill own up to it. Im not that informed on everything. yet.

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    • Heavy use of Magica (in the right ways) can prolong general life-expectancy.  Mer can live for a couple centuries anyway.  Also, the hero from Oblivion isn't mortal, he/she became Sheogorath.

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    • The hero of Morrowind is immortal, so is Kvatch, Dragonborn and the other heroes arent mortal though, so they of course cant be the same person

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    • 108.64.128.25 wrote:
      The hero of Morrowind is immortal, so is Kvatch, Dragonborn and the other heroes arent mortal though, so they of course cant be the same person


      As we have played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, the Hero is the same: Us.;-)

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    • DarthOrc wrote:
      108.64.128.25 wrote:
      The hero of Morrowind is immortal, so is Kvatch, Dragonborn and the other heroes arent mortal though, so they of course cant be the same person

      As we have played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, the Hero is the same: Us.;-)

      Nice smart-assery there!

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    • PsijicThief wrote:
      DarthOrc wrote:
      108.64.128.25 wrote:
      The hero of Morrowind is immortal, so is Kvatch, Dragonborn and the other heroes arent mortal though, so they of course cant be the same person

      As we have played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, the Hero is the same: Us.;-)
      Nice smart-assery there!


      Thank you, thank you very much.....;-D

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    • If you actually play the games and read and listen to everything in them you find out what happens to all the heros

      Hero Of Kvatch - becomes Sheogorath

      Nerevarine - travels to Akavir and is never seen again

      Hero of Daggerfall - Dies in current timeline but lives on in a different timeline

      Eternal Champion - returned home after the events

      Last dragonborn - fate is undecided

      the fact that the player always starts out as a prisoner means little, just like the sweetroll jokes that have been going on in the series. should we assume the sweetroll is some mystical being? NO. you people need to stop coming up with these wierd ideas until you have played every game, and read all the books and talked to everyone in the game. this stuff that they use because they do.

      Second, the Nerevine is not immortal, he was resurrected. that means he was simply brought back to life as the Undead dragon priest are brought back to life as well.... and guess what... my sword killed them too. OH YEA, you can be killed in the game too.... which means he is not immortal.

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    • XtremeVoidNinja wrote:

      Second, the Nerevine is not immortal, he was resurrected. that means he was simply brought back to life as the Undead dragon priest are brought back to life as well.... and guess what... my sword killed them too. OH YEA, you can be killed in the game too.... which means he is not immortal.

      To clerify, I think it was meant as immortal as in not dying from natural cuases.

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    • Yeah the Nerevarine isn't necessarily immortal but becuse of the corpus he won't be killed by age or disease.

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    • yea i agree with you AzuraKnight. but those before us keep acting like Nerevine is immortal and cant die.

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    • XtremeVoidNinja wrote:
      yea i agree with you AzuraKnight. but those before us keep acting like Nerevine is immortal and cant die.

      So, there is a good chance he is alive during the events of Skyrim?

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    • Unlikely due to tehe time gap and the area he visited. he was last seen undertaking a journey to Akavir, a place not hospitable to men. though it is still up for grabs. the only two heros who have a fraction (and i mean a fraction like a splinter size fraction) of existing during the Dragon crisis is the Nerevine and Hero of Daggerfell since the Hero of Daggerfell survived in another timeline but which one we dont know, and the Nerevine cant die of old age so if he has survived in Akavir or managed to make it back then yes, these two might be existing when the dragonborn is around.

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    • my thought is that u are an imortal time traviling agent of the divines give specifc times and events to go back and stop in an atempt to stop said events from chaining together and causing an end to all things imortal and mortal. any way just thought id say that cause if ur imortal and can time travle there could be multipe versions of u through out time.

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    • 162.39.191.25 wrote:
      my thought is that u are an imortal time traviling agent of the divines give specifc times and events to go back and stop in an atempt to stop said events from chaining together and causing an end to all things imortal and mortal. any way just thought id say that cause if ur imortal and can time travle there could be multipe versions of u through out time.

      So now you're Gordon Freeman?

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    • Graviscalar wrote:
      162.39.191.25 wrote:
      my thought is that u are an imortal time traviling agent of the divines give specifc times and events to go back and stop in an atempt to stop said events from chaining together and causing an end to all things imortal and mortal. any way just thought id say that cause if ur imortal and can time travle there could be multipe versions of u through out time.
      So now you're Gordon Freeman?

      half-scrolls 3 confirmed.

      dr.gordon freeman ventures through tamriel in his quest to stop the combine and the thalmor from taking over the universe and becoming gods.

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    • yes. we are all time travels. why travel when the Divines can send you to different Eras. I think we all need to cut back on the movies and games -_-

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    • Or stop trying to put the TARDIS in Mundus, lol.

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    • OH FOR THE LOVE OF OBLIVION! Leave Mundus outta my SHADOW REALM!

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    • in morrowind he's saint nerevar reincarnate, in redguard its just a black guy and in oblivion your only special cause the emperor has a dream about you. 

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    • They're all different people

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    • thank you Fetidmixture,  I have been telling them this for days. even posted the different characters and their infomation. But noooooooooooooooooooooooooo, some people where just used as a soccer ball too much as a child to put it together.

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    • XtremeVoidNinja wrote:
      thank you Fetidmixture,  I have been telling them this for days. even posted the different characters and their infomation. But noooooooooooooooooooooooooo, some people where just used as a soccer ball too much as a child to put it together.


      Ikr? Didn't we pretty much establish this already?

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    • Oakusify wrote:
      I know what you are thinking, but honestly hear me out. No one really seems to know what happens to the hero of each game, in fact it's all a bit of a mystery, small hints are made by characters but nothing is set in stone...

      Interesting,i was thinking the same,amybe the dragonborn and the champion of cyradil are a being sent by any god to save mundus.Maybe its like youre the god`s emisary,the one that takes action into saving people and afterwards you dissapear.

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    • 187.146.147.114 wrote:
      in dawnguard you can talk about your family with serana, you can sort of choose what was your relationship with your family, if you miss them, hate them or simply don't care.

      also in morrowind within the prophecy, there is a line that says "A prisoner born on a certain day to uncertain parents".

      I think that every hero have or had a family, that what make them ordinary at the beginning, before turning into great heroes, maybe some sort of blood lineage that your hero doesn't know and was long lost, even too his family.

      I would think that that would not neccesarily be true. I came up with this whole wacky daedric origin for my person... I think taht the persons true origin is really up to the player himself.

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    • Amirthesavior wrote:

      Interesting,i was thinking the same,amybe the dragonborn and the champion of cyradil are a being sent by any god to save mundus.Maybe its like youre the god`s emisary,the one that takes action into saving people and afterwards you dissapear.

      Except the Champion of Cyrodiil became the Daedric Prince of Madness.

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    • I know my second character will be in the next game, Dark elf + Harkon's Blood = Immortal Dark Elf.

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    • I'll just pretend Hydra-Hok had a son, a small diddy little lizard, i'll call him, Hydra-Hok ll don't let the familly die out!

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    • i thought that each game was in a diffrent era and each era was like 1000 years apart from each other

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    • XToxic VenomX wrote:
      i thought that each game was in a diffrent era and each era was like 1000 years apart from each other


      Oblivion is about 20 years after Morrowind, Skyrim is only 200 years after Oblivion (an elf can live longer than that).

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    • Can't elves technically live forever? Obviously accidents, murders, illnesses would be able to kill them, but aren't they essantially immortal?

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    • Incarnate Sable wrote:
      Can't elves technically live forever? Obviously accidents, murders, illnesses would be able to kill them, but aren't they essantially immortal?


      No, it seems that most (if not all) elves (minus the the the Tribunal) in the Elder Scrolls Universe are just as mortal as other races (with the exception that elves have longer lifespans) unlike in LOTR (unless an elf contracts vamprism).

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    • Draconi Nascentum Imperatore wrote:
      Incarnate Sable wrote:
      Can't elves technically live forever? Obviously accidents, murders, illnesses would be able to kill them, but aren't they essantially immortal?

      No, it seems that most (if not all) elves (minus the the the Tribunal) in the Elder Scrolls Universe are just as mortal as other races (with the exception that elves have longer lifespans) unlike in LOTR (unless an elf contracts vamprism).

      High elves were once immortal, but Lorkhan took their immense life energies to create humanity, and maybe a few other species of elves too.

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    • Hydra-Hok wrote:
      Draconi Nascentum Imperatore wrote:
      Incarnate Sable wrote:
      Can't elves technically live forever? Obviously accidents, murders, illnesses would be able to kill them, but aren't they essantially immortal?

      No, it seems that most (if not all) elves (minus the the the Tribunal) in the Elder Scrolls Universe are just as mortal as other races (with the exception that elves have longer lifespans) unlike in LOTR (unless an elf contracts vamprism).
      High elves were once immortal, but Lorkhan took their immense life energies to create humanity, and maybe a few other species of elves too.

      not true: High Elves believe that Lorkhan did this, but it is never confirmed because elves considered themselves descendants of the Aedra but Lorkhan stole their immortal status. All which is unconfirmed

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    • Im just going with the currently only known explantion. In these situations there is no right or rong, just like in real religion.

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    • This is one of the stupidest conspiracy theories I've read, here is why this is impossible:

      If they were all the same person they would be known to almost every person in Tamriel and maybe even in other continents for their incredible feats, and I doubt some guard would arrest the Hero of Kvatch/Daggerfall, the Eternal Champion, a demi-god and a Dragonborn over and over again.

      Also the Hero of Daggerfall died because of Akatosh, the Eternal Champion was a mortal who died of age probably (Elves rarely live more than 200 years), the protagonist in Morrowind was never seen after Akavir, The Hero of Kvatch was turned into Sheograth and the Dragonborn has a mysterious fate.

      One last argument against this is the skills of those champions. I mean don't you think someone who has faced the dangers of Jagar Tharn, Dagoth Ur and Mehrunes Dagon would be able to finish off anyone who tries to battle him easily? Then how come you start out defenseless in Skyrim without even knowing how to fight people or even knowing more than one spell.

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    • what if your always a child of one of the 9 and a deadra in each game, example the dragon born is Akatosh's child with a weaker deadra, and the Nerevarine is Azura's and one of the weaker divinse?

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    • 68.191.211.119 wrote:
      what if your always a child of one of the 9 and a deadra in each game, example the dragon born is Akatosh's child with a weaker deadra, and the Nerevarine is Azura's and one of the weaker divinse?

      What if... And I know this going to sound crazy guys (but bear with me), what if the player characters were born as regular mortals (Dragonborn excluded) to regular mortal parents?

      Crazy, right?

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    • guys...

      dragonborn: blessed by akatosh

      nerevarine: reincaration

      eternal champion: badass

      hero of daggerfall: friend of the emperor

      hero of kvatch: i don't fuggin know

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    • Ok so have you guys thought that considering in arena you cause a time paradox at the end of the game the fact that in morrowind you destroy lorkhans heart could have been affected and all players then became an aspect of Lorkhan Like the aspects of hircine in morrowind

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    • no. the time paradox was in daggerfall.

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    • 94.249.104.116 wrote:
      This is one of the stupidest conspiracy theories I've read, here is why this is impossible:

      If they were all the same person they would be known to almost every person in Tamriel and maybe even in other continents for their incredible feats, and I doubt some guard would arrest the Hero of Kvatch/Daggerfall, the Eternal Champion, a demi-god and a Dragonborn over and over again.

      The guards know the Dragonborn is the Listener and don't do anything. At the same time, they arrest the Dragonborn for petty crimes knowing he is the Harbinger.

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    • what happens with the heroes in the elder scroll series is like what happens with the heroes in the legend of zelda series..in times of great need and perilous situations in which the world is about to end heroes shall always rise to save the world.they dont have to be superhuman or demi gods.they could be normal people with a hero's heart that get involved into these events by chance and are courageous enough to overcome darkness.

      On the other hand who says that you have to follow the lore word by word.For example i want my skyrim hero to actually be the nerevarine that was sent on an expedition to the mysterious island of akavir and found some life-prolonging herb or was afflicted by vampirism and went there to find a cure or because the nerevarine was also the dragonborn and didnt know he was blessed with long life like saint alessia.besides in the lost prophecy the nerevarine is also referred to as dragon-born ;) so why not make your own story by mixing lore facts rather than follow them like canon

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    • I dont know who to trust anymore....

      But its not really important so long as that there are good at killing, and bad at dying.

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    • 178.59.1.202 wrote:
      what happens with the heroes in the elder scroll series is like what happens with the heroes in the legend of zelda series..in times of great need and perilous situations in which the world is about to end heroes shall always rise to save the world.they dont have to be superhuman or demi gods.they could be normal people with a hero's heart that get involved into these events by chance and are courageous enough to overcome darkness.

      On the other hand who says that you have to follow the lore word by word.For example i want my skyrim hero to actually be the nerevarine that was sent on an expedition to the mysterious island of akavir and found some life-prolonging herb or was afflicted by vampirism and went there to find a cure or because the nerevarine was also the dragonborn and didnt know he was blessed with long life like saint alessia.besides in the lost prophecy the nerevarine is also referred to as dragon-born ;) so why not make your own story by mixing lore facts rather than follow them like canon

      I think the discussion is about canon though.

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    • Who else is confused.

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    • ... is this conversation still a thing? wasn't this resolved a month ago?

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    • apparently not

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    • What if the Dragonborn is descended from the Septim bloodline?


      Also, I think I read somewhere that the hero in Daggerfall and Oblivion are the same, can't remember where though O.o

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    • Sorry but no and no.

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    • 31.51.122.107 wrote:
      What if the Dragonborn is descended from the Septim bloodline?


      HAHAHA, no.

      31.51.122.107 wrote:
      Also, I think I read somewhere that the hero in Daggerfall and Oblivion are the same, can't remember where though O.o


      You're thinking Arena and Daggerfall, and that's just speculation.

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    • what about that douchbag jyggalad, didnt he make the player the new sheogorath?

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    • 66.30.96.40 wrote:
      what about that douchbag jyggalad, didnt he make the player the new sheogorath?

      no, Sheogorath made the hero of K'vatch into Sheogorath, but yes, the last hero is sheogorath... at least all signs point to it.

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    • I know people may have suggested that the hero of each game (except maybe elder scrolls.travels regulars and a few others) is a descendant of the other hero but the gods made it to where those descendants are put into the right places at the right times and gives them powers to fulfil the gods bidding. My long description describes what I think.

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    • 97.113.28.1 wrote:
      I know people may have suggested that the hero of each game (except maybe elder scrolls.travels regulars and a few others) is a descendant of the other hero but the gods made it to where those descendants are put into the right places at the right times and gives them powers to fulfil the gods bidding. My long description describes what I think.

      ... what?

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    • What if the heroes are actually aspects of Sithis? Think about it from the moment you start the games to the end, you become a walking death machine. I wouldn't think that if the divines blessed a mortal with the ability to slay anything in his path if the divines are all about peace and life. Also Sithis seemes to have no problem with the hero being of men or mer, unlike Lorkhan. In Oblivion and Skyrim if you were to join the Dark Brotherhood you are the one that becomes the listener, and the night mother always seems to favor you over any of the other members. She even states in Oblivion that from the moment of your birth your fate was written in the void (i may be paraphrasing). Meaning that you may infact be a child of Sithis sent to stop these world ending events because if there is no world, there is no death to feed Sithis.

      No what if the player doesn't become a member of the Dark Brotherhood? how can he/she be a aspect of Sithis? well think about all the death that happens at the hand of the Heroes. I would think that the deaths would still enter the void for Sithis weather they know it or not. The hero also slaughters half the population of the province your in and nobody bats an eye (save for breaking the law) and the hero just moves on with no emotional repercussion and in fact becomes stonger for it. I know in from at least in Morrowind (can't speak for the first two games as i have not played them) the Dark Brotherhood trys to kill you in some random attacks, but what if that is the Night Mothers way of getting your attention, calling you home in a sense.

      So in my conclusion I believe that at least from the Hero of Kavatch to the Dragonborn you may in fact be a literal child of Sithis that was put on Nirn to with the willpower and ability i.e. dragonblood to save the world so that more death happens to feed Sithis.

      I know i may sound like a death worshiping psyco but as i was reading this thread and seeing the logical conclusions that others have come to I haven't seen a theory as to this point. I guess Gravitate to this is becuase I find that the Dark Brotherhood has the best storylines in the games.

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    • The Skyrim hero is a chosen of Akatosh otherwise they couldn't be a Dragonborn. The hero from Morrowind (the Nerevarine) is the reincarnation of a Chimer champion and a chosen of Azura.

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    • Or maybe our characters are just normal people who become heros.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      66.30.96.40 wrote:
      what about that douchbag jyggalad, didnt he make the player the new sheogorath?
      no, Sheogorath made the hero of K'vatch into Sheogorath, but yes, the last hero is sheogorath... at least all signs point to it.


      actually after you free Jygglag from his curse he rewards you by crowning yu the new prince of madness.

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    • 72.200.26.195 wrote:
      What if the heroes are actually aspects of Sithis? Think about it from the moment you start the games to the end, you become a walking death machine. I wouldn't think that if the divines blessed a mortal with the ability to slay anything in his path if the divines are all about peace and life. Also Sithis seemes to have no problem with the hero being of men or mer, unlike Lorkhan. In Oblivion and Skyrim if you were to join the Dark Brotherhood you are the one that becomes the listener, and the night mother always seems to favor you over any of the other members. She even states in Oblivion that from the moment of your birth your fate was written in the void (i may be paraphrasing). Meaning that you may infact be a child of Sithis sent to stop these world ending events because if there is no world, there is no death to feed Sithis.

      No what if the player doesn't become a member of the Dark Brotherhood? how can he/she be a aspect of Sithis? well think about all the death that happens at the hand of the Heroes. I would think that the deaths would still enter the void for Sithis weather they know it or not. The hero also slaughters half the population of the province your in and nobody bats an eye (save for breaking the law) and the hero just moves on with no emotional repercussion and in fact becomes stonger for it. I know in from at least in Morrowind (can't speak for the first two games as i have not played them) the Dark Brotherhood trys to kill you in some random attacks, but what if that is the Night Mothers way of getting your attention, calling you home in a sense.

      So in my conclusion I believe that at least from the Hero of Kavatch to the Dragonborn you may in fact be a literal child of Sithis that was put on Nirn to with the willpower and ability i.e. dragonblood to save the world so that more death happens to feed Sithis.

      I know i may sound like a death worshiping psyco but as i was reading this thread and seeing the logical conclusions that others have come to I haven't seen a theory as to this point. I guess Gravitate to this is becuase I find that the Dark Brotherhood has the best storylines in the games.

      i know every part you used to come up with your theory. the reason why your character is different than NPCs is because if they made every one level up the same it would take you 10 years of playing skyrim just to max out a skill. every faction makes a comment about you the will of some daedric prince or aedra. dont look to much into it

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    • in my opinion the events are interconected.

      for example the start of of oblivion coincides with the nerevarine leaving for akavir and nothing is heard from the nerevarine since so it could be the same spirit taking on different forms because the nerevarine could dissapear and then reapear in the imperial prison under a different guise.

      another example is the hero of kvatch and the last dragonborn.

      after the 200 years between oblivion and skyrim the hero of kvatch could take the form of a random peasant and attempt to cross the border illeagaly with the intention of getting caught and being brought to helgen to enact whatever prophecy has been layed out for that particular soul.

      my other theory is that all the events are just hallucinations experienced by talin from eating the mushrooms growing from the walls of his cell and none of it realy happened.  

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    • 86.169.94.105 wrote:
      my other theory is that all the events are just hallucinations experienced by talin from eating the mushrooms growing from the walls of his cell and none of it realy happened.  

      If we go with that theory, we can just say that Sheogorath just got bored and made all of Nirn hallucinate and think stuff was happening. When actually, nothing was. Or, all of the hallucinations happened in 1 second, and Nirn just stops, and time stops

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    • Ok, I think they are not the same person. I really rather doubt it. I'm going on a hunch, but come on, I don't think so. 

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    • would be nice to think they're all the same characters but i'm not really sure. 

      I do like that theory that hero of kvatch or dragon born might be the child of sithis, idk why but it just sounds cool. 

      XtremeVoidNinja wrote:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i know every part you used to come up with your theory. the reason why your character is different than NPCs is because if they made every one level up the same it would take you 10 years of playing skyrim just to max out a skill. every faction makes a comment about you the will of some daedric prince or aedra. dont look to much into it

      And what's wrong with taking 10 years to max out a skill? it would prolong the game imo :P

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    • Flamedude22 wrote:
      I don't belive Aedra die of old age though. The hero's probably either have the souls of Aedra, or are a spawned into existence by Aedra, all the hero's still may share a soul. Reincarnated from hero to hero. Think about how absurdly unlikely that in real life you'd be the chosen one for EVERYTHING!!? Unless "The game was rigged from the start." by the Divines themselves. 

      Good reference to another Bethesda game. (Fallout: New Vegas)  "The game was rigged from the start." -Benny

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    • I believe the Eternal Champion & the Hero of Daggerfall are the same person. I don’t think the Hero of Kavtch turned into Sheogorath. In RPGs like The Elder scrolls things are left wide open regarding Player Characters so you can have what ever happen. Only thing you can’t control about their history is what is stated in game flat out. Such as the Neverine going to Akivar. So if you want the first two heroes to be the same guy they are if you don’t they aren’t. If you want your Oblivion hero to turn into Sheo he does if you don’t he doesn’t (the voice actor saying it doesn’t count as canon) If you want all the heroes to be related they are if not they aren’t. Simple as that when it comes to an RPG. So if you think they are all the same guy. When you play they are the same guy.

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    • also keep in mind shivering isles came out a year or so after oblivion, we could always say that the dlc doesn't truly count for the main lore part when the game first released. It's mainly a side main quest for extra adventure. 

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    • Kreetin Jeebie wrote:
      I believe the Eternal Champion & the Hero of Daggerfall are the same person. I don’t think the Hero of Kavtch turned into Sheogorath. In RPGs like The Elder scrolls things are left wide open regarding Player Characters so you can have what ever happen. Only thing you can’t control about their history is what is stated in game flat out. Such as the Neverine going to Akivar. So if you want the first two heroes to be the same guy they are if you don’t they aren’t. If you want your Oblivion hero to turn into Sheo he does if you don’t he doesn’t (the voice actor saying it doesn’t count as canon) If you want all the heroes to be related they are if not they aren’t. Simple as that when it comes to an RPG. So if you think they are all the same guy. When you play they are the same guy.


      Yes, in head-canon that is all true; But we're talking about hard-canon.

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    • I believe the Hero of Kvatch and Sheogorath are one and the same. Other than that, they're all different.

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    • In RPGs if they dont come out & say it's not Hard Canon & up to us to decide

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    • Kreetin Jeebie wrote:
      In RPGs if they dont come out & say it's not Hard Canon & up to us to decide

      yes, but that doesn't make the head-canon true, especially when it's not possible. many people use the lack of hard-canon to use their own head-canon as a fact, even when their head-canon distorts lore and hard-canon. like the whole 'my dragonborn is a septim' that so many people are fond of.

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    • yeah only way would happen is if Martin met up with a few ladies in his more free Spirited youth he was telling the Hero Of Kavach about.

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    • The thing about shivering isles i mention is the fact that the dlc came out after the core game. In retrospect it should be assumed that that the dlc isn't really canon to the events of the base game. Because what if people didn't play shivering isles? you can't just say yea hero of kvatch became the new sheogorath not to mention the fact there was a choice factor in freeing sheogorath from his madness cycle. So when you start to think about it it's about as similar to the civil war questline too many choices and variables to really assume if it's even canon. Not to mention the fact bethesda never usually chooses sides on things like this. It's left open to us, as the gamers to make our own story which includes whether he was the new sheogorath or not. 

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    • Only people that beleave Hero of Kvatch became Sheogorath & that it is canon are the ones that beleave what the guy who did the Voice of Sheogorath said. I for my self beleave if it was Canon the makers not the voice actor would have said it. I know your not saying you beleave he did. Plus im pretty sure the DLCs are concidered Canon but maybe not

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    • What i'm merely saying there was choices in shivering isles whether to free the sheogorath from his constant madness and become the new sheogorath(prince of madness) or let the cycle continue. It's no different as I said to civil war where you get to choose which side you want to fight for. The issue i brought up is not everyone got the dlc and like typical bethesda fashion they put in alot of easter eggs. The line sheogorath said doesn't really prove he is the champion he's a daedra(also prince of madness) he likely knows the events that took place and he just mentioned it as more of a easter egg by bethesda to fans who played the dlc. There's literally no factual proof it's actual canon to lore, but players can believe it's he's the hero. That's fine i'm just saying there's variables that doesn't necessarily prove it's canon. Bethesda doesn't really have follow through quests that has multiple choices in future games. I guarantee you TES6 they won't pick a side who won in the civil war for the reasons i just laid out. They'll likely use the season unending as the canon quest with whatever the main quest ends up being. Despite what the wiki states i want to bring up something someone said(not sure if it was here or the bethesda forums) "what if the shivering isles never really happened? what if it was all a dream i mean he is the prince of madness, anything is possible" It's an interesting theory and one which makes sense. :P

      Edit: At least I'm pretty sure there is a choice to not become the prince of madness, if i'm incorrect then half of my point is totally inaccurate which I apologize in advance. But still i don't believe it canon though. 

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    • I'm not Debateing what your saying other then im pretty sure the DLCs are canon. But you are right they will more than likley just make referinces to it. I dont think they can do like they did with Daggerfall where they let you pick the ending then make it that every choice happened. I agree with you about what you said about sheogorath

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    • Two words: "Eternal Champion".

      If all possible outcomes of Arena have actually happened (though in different dimensions or variants of reality, or what have you), there is nothing to say that the same person is not in fact being reincarnated as the hero of each game. It would also explain why certain motifs will be repeated each time the character is "born" - a.k.a. starting off as a prisoner, possibly being the champion of all the Daedric princes (except for Dagon in Oblivion, naturally), and finally emerging victorious from a world-changing battle. We could argue that the hero of the games is in fact one immortal aspect sent into Mundus whenever divine intervention is necessary, thereby incarnating the aforementioned aspect into physical form (which explains why the character can be of any race or sex), so as to accomplish the task seemingly as a mortal, thereby creating a mythic figure in the process.

      This theory however provides further possibilities; for instance, what if all the Dragonborn were the same aspect, incarnated at different times? If so, were all player characters in all the games also Dragonborn, but only the hero in Skyrim was the one who actually managed to fully take advantage of that gift (as there were no dragons in the former games and the Greybeards therefore had no reason to instruct them).

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    • it may have been possible for the eternal champion and hero of daggerfall to be the same, but by default the Nerevarine was a dummer, champion of cyrodil was imperial and dragonborn was nord, this is by default and in the skyrim addon dragonborn Nelos mentions your character been to young to remember the Nerevarine, while I have my doubts that the champion of cyrodil is sheogorath as in someways you'd expect a book in skyrim on the oblivion crisis to mention that the champion entered a unique oblivion gate one day and never returned, or something like that, I think that the champion of cyrodil joined the nights of the nine and was in time forgotten about, sheogorath created a new form and closed his gate, the Neravavine as mentioned in oblivion left on an exibition to Akavir and never returned, this could mean that all of the characters are still alive maybe by powerful magics or vamperism or even deadric protection, but I don't think they're the same.

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    • i don't see why they would choose to become a vampire though?

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    • Power eternal life, or the simple fear that they might be needed again oneday though in truth I don't really think any became vimpires (Dragonborn aside due to the vimpire lord), but Morvath or something like that was a vampire hunter until he was beaten and infected by a vimpire then he became just like them, the Champion could have decided to help the count of skingrad and become a vampire. at the end of the day Bethesda makes it so the thought of cannon is entirely yours, if you believe they are the same person reborn then that's your free will to think that as while no proof is there to confirm it there is also no proof to deny it, for me I like to think they could all be alive or preserved somehow awaiting a time (last ender scrolls game bassed in Tamriel)  where they will be called upon again lead by a new hero against a new great evil, some stuff like that we all know it's more than possible for Bethesda to come up with something like even a return of the dwemer and they threaten all of tamriel, nice way to end the tamriel series before finally starting in Akavir or something.

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    • i doubt we'll see the dwemer again, we don't even know what they looked like. People say dwarves but i've found no images to them unless they were in dagger fall or arena

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    • We saw the Dwemer with Corpus in Morrowind, and some Dwarvern Ghosts, not sure which game.

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    • darn, probably should try searching for images of them then. I've always been curious and i never played morrowind :P

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    • it was a good game, but after reading the lord of souls then replaying the dawnguard addon it made me think with all the creulties the dwemer inflicted on others especially the snow elves could it be possible that the fringe grye on umbriel and where it landed could have been the same location as to where the dwemer disapeared too, if they used the deadric city and copied it's power which is more than possible with the dwemer, could it also be possible they're building an invasion army to turn tamriel in to giant ass testing ground? they was evidently cruel and uncaring towards others then with that mage whom the dragonborn helped copy the experiment potentially arriving it could be they took it as a sign of war and killed him and started builting an army, you got to admit and army of the automatrons would be devestating, and if they built floating cities to capture the people in towns and cities for their experiments it would make a pretty gruesome but brilliant game.

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    • Wait what mage did the dragon born helped copy the experiment? Is this from dragonborn dlc?

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    • StealthBlade98 wrote:
      Wait what mage did the dragon born helped copy the experiment? Is this from dragonborn dlc?

      Arniel Gane, from the College of Winterhold.

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    • Ah right, completely forgot about arniel. xD

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    • an anoying quest if you ask me and a worthless reward but for morrowind fans a few nice reminders I'm sure,

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    • No. Maybe each character was destined by the gods, but No. The Agent who is likely The Eternal Champion is dead. The Nerevarine is gone to Akavir and he's immortal. The Hero of Kvatch is Sheogorath, and the Dragonborn was chosen by Akatosh.

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    • Hunter who are you saying no to, heres the truth, nothing is fact when it comes to the characters in this game, it is left entirely to the player, if I was to assume all the characters are now dead or Vampires or immortals or whatever, unless you have been working for Bethesda ever since the elder scrolls started you can't say with 100% acuracy that this is the fate of the characters, though in most ways I agree with you, also why are you commenting on a dead post?

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    • personally i don't believe hero of Kvatch is sheogorath because I don't think the shivering isles is truly canon. It's an expansion sure but unlike dragonborn(dlc) it doesn't really continue or follow the events of the story.

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    • how did Dragonborn continue the story?

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    • I also put "or follow the events" in this case Shivering isles has nothing to do with him being the hero or oblivion gates or what not. Where as dragonborn dlc is specific about you fighting the first dragon born to stop him from wrecking havok on the world of nirn with his power. He is a huge part of the skyrim and the dlc requires you to complete the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller quest before you start the actual dragonborn dlc main quest. Thus you can say it's heavily influenced based of the main campaign of skyrim. There's also unique dialog between you and Miraak with how many dragons you defeated or if you defeated Alduin at all. So yea i see it more of a canon story than shivering isles. I see shivering isles in the same way as Dawnguard, while SI did add a HUGE location with different areas like dragon born, it really isn't influenced by the main story events. Dawnguard is only partially influenced since you need the dragon elder scroll which you can totally get by doing the Hermaeus Mora daedric quest, you don't even need to start skyrim's MQ so it's not really influenced all to much. 

      But this is my POV really, since whatever happens to our characters is really up to us as there's no definite proof by lore(from bethesda) that Hero of Kvatch is sheogorath as that would undermine the whole RP aspect of it. It's left open for us to intepret the fate of our players. 

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    • I too dont agree the hero of Kvatch became Sheogorath because unless its said out right that he is (in game) it is up to the player & no voice actors dont count as conferming anything.

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    • considering the fact that Jyggalag isn't mentioned at all in Skyrim, it is possible SI is just an expansion to the game and not the story it is also possible that the Champion was defeated by Jyggalag and he returned to been Sheogorath again, but this is entirely POV that's what makes the game great, it's like Dragonborns fate is unknown did he become Hermeaous' pet or his greatest rival Dawnguard and Knights of nine are very similiar in structure, ancient evil returning threatning everthing, hero joins a group, and works against the returning evil, (or in DG joins the evil side but that's extra choice) no cannon really aside from this, Knights of nine end up returning 200 years later Dawnguard order is restored though both the fates are unknown.

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    • That's what I was thinking, none of the games hints about the previous hero/main characters and since we're on dlc's i just don't see events in dlc being canon(unless it's heavily ties with MQ) in the way as the regular launch game. 

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    • Stealth I'm curious, the champion of cyrodil, do you think they went into shivering isle and failed, or just that it didn't happen at all? I think in a strange way, that the champion did enter but failed to stop Jyggalag but wasn't killed, and Sheogorath turned the champion into Dervenin, it just seems like a waste of effort for Bethesda to go through all that effort for a large expansion, just for it to be ignored in the next game

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    • Well Dervenin has been typically a bosmer character in TES and since TES:O is more towards an imperial, like skyrim is with nords, i'm going to say SI didn't happen at all. I think to avoid the whole went into SI and failed to stop jyggalag and don't think he was turned into Dervenin. I merely see the SI as a what if adventure for our character but isn't tied to lore unless we want it to for our characters. Same could be said for any dlc's really seeing how they never elaborate on our characters in the next game which makes sense considering we RP our characters and it leaves stuff like that out. 

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    • It's very, very likely that the CoC, or a version of the CoC, became Sheogorath through mantling. If you think about it, the whole story of the CoC is full of madness:

      First we have the main quest, which is basicly what Pelinal Whitestrake (the probably craziest cyborg-terminator dude on Nirn) and Alessia did in the first Era. The CoC has Pelinals role, while Martin has Alessias role. Then we have Knights of the Nine in which the CoC directly mantles Pelinal. And then, we have the pinnacle of Madness: Shivering Isles, where the CoC mantles Madness in it's purest form. Sheogorath.

      I don't see how TESO suddenly has something to do with the CoC, Stealth.

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    • before any of the dlc that was it, TESO was about CoC. Vanilla game is all about the the hero saving cyrodill so i fail to see how it doesn't connect. 

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    • I'm starting to think bethesda has some sort of "thing" for prisioners considering the amount of games in which you start out as one.

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    • jeez you guys are so deep you are in friggin' China.

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    • The heroes of each game exist in different times of the Third and Fourth Eras. Their reasons as to why they are prisoners is left up to the player if they want to take the time to think of it.

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    • Diogogaspar45 wrote:
      I'm starting to think bethesda has some sort of "thing" for prisioners considering the amount of games in which you start out as one.

      I think the reason for that is so we can role-play and create our own character. If they didn't have us as a prisoner or some kind we'd know his past and it would really lessen our role-play abilities. Since we're prisoners we can assume our characters were this and that and make our own past, present and future with them. I think it's a neat idea though i think at this point is more of a fan service or something where we just expect it now? Not sure of the word i'm missing here but it's something like that. :P

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    • a mere fact that Nerevarine is resistant do disease tells it all

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    • yea i think the word i was trying to remember before was tradition or running gag lol

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    • Well it's simple Hero of Kvatch is now Sheogorath yea the character may look diffrent but being a god and all he probably wanted to look familar and yes DLC's are Cannon otherwise the games wouldn't make indirect refrences to it. Now The Eternail Champion however is problamatic since the whole time thing ,and The Nerevarine is easy went to Akavir and is either dead or still living somewhere

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    • There's no factual evidence to suggest the dlc's are canon, and i refuse to believe that they are. They are what if events that extends the game. Also SI can be looked as a crazy event that probably didn't happen seeing how Sheogorath is a crazy dude, he probably made it all up. 

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    • StealthBlade98 wrote:
      There's no factual evidence to suggest the dlc's are canon, and i refuse to believe that they are. They are what if events that extends the game. Also SI can be looked as a crazy event that probably didn't happen seeing how Sheogorath is a crazy dude, he probably made it all up. 

      There's less factual evidence that it's not.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      StealthBlade98 wrote:
      There's no factual evidence to suggest the dlc's are canon, and i refuse to believe that they are. They are what if events that extends the game. Also SI can be looked as a crazy event that probably didn't happen seeing how Sheogorath is a crazy dude, he probably made it all up. 
      There's less factual evidence that it's not.

      Considering none of the games mentions the previous hero or his fate leaves it very much open as it is with our individal characters. think about it, if the hero's actually had a story and fate bethesda would have included it as a easter egg, just because sheogorath in skyrim mentions events from oblivion that doesn't mean he's hero of kvatch. He's a daedra they know alot of things, if not all things over the eras. And like I said, Sheogorath is the daedra prince of madness, he could have made SI all up for the same of our enjoyment and his. 

      And continuing my previous point if the hero did have a set path that means we can't really role play and make up random backrounds of his past and his future. It's also partially why bethesda always starts the next game with us in prison or shackles, outside of a running gag at this point originally it was supposed to eliminate a "who he/she" was and it always ends up with us being held captive by mistake. Trust me the game hints a bunch of stuff already and bethesda never mentions it in their games. SI or most DLC are what if events because I bet you this, if TES:VI releases it'll either not mention the dragonborn at all or if it did it wont mention "the Last dovah; half dragonborn, half vampire lord and Haermaeus Mora Servant..etc". There's a standard amongst all games that never truly mentions the fate of the character and we, as players, end up thinking this happened or that happened. It makes for an interesting role play with our characters we made and developed. 

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