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  • As we all know, Titus Mede is assasinated if one joins the Dark Brotherhood questline in Skyrim. But does the game give any references as to whom replaces him? 

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    • no

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    • Does he have any heirs?

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    • I don't know...

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    • nothing on the wiki.

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    • Looks like the Mede Dynasty is FUBAR.....(Fucked Up Beyond All Repair).......

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    • There is very little information there is on Mede Dynasty. The current Emperor is actually Titus Mede II. All we know is the first Emperor of this dynasty was Titus Mede I and his only son and heir was involved in the story of Infernal City. Theoretically, that Prince became Emperor afterwards, but who else were Emperors between him and Titus Mede II, isn't explained to us. There was obviously way too long between those two, but there is absolutelely no information of who was imidiate predecessos of Titus Mede II. Moreover, there is no mention of who is his heir or heirs if any. His only family apperantly that are known, is Vittoria Vici and she have to die in the process too. Mede Dynasty, probably among the most mysterious one in Elder Scrolls and since they are not Dragonborn Emperors, they don't even count as 4th human Empire.

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    • Maybe he doesn't have an heir opening a nice spot for the Dragonborn :D

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    • what happens if you kill the emperor before the imperial legion questline because when you swear the legion oath you swar on the emperor, it might give you the name of the heir

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    • No they just say "the emperor" instead of "emperor titus mede the second"

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    • What Nait said, but that exactly how I was planning to have the next dlc progressing. A lot of thing within the story, suggested of Dragonborn association with Talos. Even the ghost at old Hroldan belived that you were Hialti, which was the name of Talos in the youth. Now lets look at the events prior to Tiber Septim becoming an Emperor. Last Ramen Emperor was assassinated, or died after all of his heirs were assassinated by Morag Tang! Interregnum time! Sounds like that councilor guy who orders assassination wants to be the potentate himself, I'm talking about the one in 4th era. However you can kill him to as the last request of Emperor Titus Mede II.

      To make long story short, your character gains enough popularity to be proclaimed the new Dragonborn Emperor/Empress, Blades are reformed as their bodyguards (and no to killing Parthunax!). Next, you expell Thalmor from every province Empire still holds. Possibly make an alliance with Morrowind and Hammerfell, and if they are willing, Blackmarsh and Elsewyer. Finally, you lead your forces on to Summerset Isles and Aldmeri Dominion. You sack Crystal Tower (if it is rebuilt by then) and then you force them to sighn "Crystal Tower Concordant" which tell the elves to stay out of human religion (let them worship Talos if they want to.), or equally they would be forced to denounce one of their devines like Auriel or Magnus. Since I am sure they won't denounce any of their devines, they would be forced to let the Empire to reinstate Talos as a devine. Then both nations can work on better coexsisting together. Everyone happy...but Thalmor :D

      Sorry if it was longer then I expected. The point is, your character is a new Emperor/Empress, Empire possibly reunited, Thalmor put in their place!

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      What Nait said, but that exactly how I was planning to have the next dlc progressing. A lot of thing within the story, suggested of Dragonborn association with Talos. Even the ghost at old Hroldan belived that you were Hialti, which...

      no offense, but personally I don't like it. I don't like the thought of the dragonborn becoming emperor, and doing to the thalmor what they did to the empire isn't going to make you a good guy.

      If I made a DLC/Mod quest line, I'd make Balgruuf become the Emperor, I mean either way he sides with the empire, if the stormcloaks win they kick him out and he leaves with the empire, if the empire wins he becomes a leader figure. plus if the stormcloaks win and he becomes emperor then they might actually try to come to some agreement with a nord that knows how they feel. and he me it seemd like he may have been leaning towards the stormcloaks, until Galmar and Ulfric decided that his stance was too defensive.

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    • Well it doesn't have to be doing the same thing, I'm sure that it would be enough to make Thalmor to let humans worship whatever they want. Dragonborn doesn't have to be Emperor for that though I guess, he can become General who could deliver humans to better ages. Thalmor could be given an ultimatum, to leave humans alone, or suffer the consecuences. Depended on how good your persuation is, it could even be resolve without a conflict with Dominion. Although now that I look at this, it might be a little too complicated for one Dlc, or Skyrim as a whole. In anycase...

      Long live the Emperor, long live the Empire! Skyrim belongs to the Nords...and all other races too! :D Play nice everyone I mean Sorry, I felt like ending it with this, hopefully you got the idea and wouldn't take it the wrong way.

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    • The Dragonborn becoming Emperor makes sense. You know, I noticed that Old Hroldon mistook you for Tiber Septim/Hialti/Talos, but I didn't put the pieces together until now... 

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    • Perhaps all true Dragonborns have the same aura about them, perhaps because they can reincarnate? Reincarnation wouldn't make sense, not just because of the Imperial bloodline, but also because Mirak never died, and yet there were Dragonborns like him after him. However, indeed it takes a true Dragonborn to start a new Empire. We don't know what kind of Dragonborns St. Alesia and Ramen were, but we do know Tiber Septim was trully a Dragonborn. Providing that, we can assume that each other founders of Empires were Dragonborns in the same sense as Tiber Septim. That would give Dragonborn in Skyrim much of legitimate claim for Ruby Throne. Although who knows, it might not be possible without amulet of kings. Although I think Dragonborn would have a better claim then a Dynasty of Colovian Warmongers, which Mede really are. What would you say? Oh and if you remember what Greybeards said, you would know that Dragonborn was also proclaimed Ysmir, Dragon of the North, and they said something about storm crown finding the right wearer. I am not sure if being Ysmir would give you any better claim on Imperial crown, or even the high king crown. But isn't that who used to rule the very first Empire? The one who descended from Atmorans I believe, forged their own Empire at one time, but they lost it and were reduced only to Skyrim. Correct me if I am not getting something right.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Perhaps all true Dragonborns have the same aura about them, perhaps because they can reincarnate? Reincarnation wouldn't make sense, not just because of the Imperial bloodline, but also because Mirak never died...

      I believe Ysmir is a nickname type thing that means dragon of the north and has been given to many dragonborn accepted by the greybeards.

      and wasn't Stormcrown the last name Hjalti Early-beard took as his true nord name before he took on the name Tiber Septim?

      Upon inspection Talos is the ancient nordic word for Stormcrown, which he earned after learning how to shout during a storm before a big battle; what the nords didn't realize is that he was being taught by a different Ysmir.

      also, apparently the Greybeards also prophesized that he would become emperor of a united tamriel, which didn't happen to the player dragonborn, so it's probably safe to assume that he wont become emperor.

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    • To the extent of my knowledge, only three figures have recieved the title Ysmir: The Dragon of the North. The first was Wulharth of Atmora, last human to come from Atmora, recieved a piece of Shor/Lorkhan's spirit, and the one with a booming Thu'um. Wulfharth would recieve the title from Skyrim itself after saving it from Alduin's ghost by summoning Shor's ghost or something and turning all the nords back to their proper ages away from six years old. Wulfharth would then "die" , but would later bring himself back when Hjalti Early Beard was about to become General Talos. Talos (as a man) would recieve the name Ysmir from the nords (despite Wulfharth still technically kicking)  and would go on to be aided by the first Ysmir in conquring Tamriel. The last Ysmir I remember is the Dragonborn of Skyrim.

      Now as for the relation of the title Ysmir to Talos as a god. The ceremony in which you recieve the title Ysmir references "stormcrown". Another word in the lore for "stormcrown" is Talos, hence why he got the name since a giant thundercloud followed above his head as he leveled Old Hroldan with the Thu'um. Since Talos is technically Shor/Lorkhan we also see another relation mentioned in the ceremony as Shor and his wife Kyne/Kynereth is also invoked.

      Lastly if I might point out, Talos the diety is an amalgam of Tiber Septim, Wulfharth of Atmora, and Zurin Arctus. Okay, now that we've mentioned Tiber Septim and Wulharth of Atmora as forming thirds of Talos, we definitely find a solid link between the title/name Ysmir and Talos/Shor/Lorkhan.

      Now on what might be in store for the Dragonborn after defeating Alduin, Arngeir mentions there being more to their destiny other than Alduin but that it'll  reveal itself in time.

      So either I and those who are thinking similar to me are on to something, or we're just giving Bethesda too much credit.

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    • Draconi Nascentum Imperatore wrote:
      To the extent of my knowledge, only three figures have recieved the title Ysmir: The Dragon of the North.

      the chant the greybeards say to the dragonborn to proclaim he's a true dragonborn is

      "Lingrah krosis saraan Strundu'ul, voth nid balaan klov praan nau. Naal Thu'umu, mu ofan nii nu, Dovahkiin, naal suleyk do Kaan, naal suleyk do Shor, ahrk naal suleyk do Atmorasewuth. Meyz nu Ysmir, Dovahsebrom. Dahmaan daar rok."

      This translates roughly to

      "Long has the Storm Crown languished with no worthy brow to sit upon. By our breath we bestow it now to you in the name of Kyne, in the name of Shor, and in the name of Atmora of old. You are Ysmir now, the Dragon of the North. Hearken to it."

      which means that they have said the same words to all dragonborn who have come to them, sp any and all dragonborn who have are also Ysmir, though we only know of Tiber Septim, and the player.

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    • Both Greybeards and Parthunax state there is more to come for Dragonborn, something grand. Weather it is an alusion to restoring Dragonborn bloodline onto the Imperial throne, it is debatable. Also, if Tiber Septim, Wulfhearth of Atmora and Zurin Arctus are all pieces of Talos as a Diety; how can we explain Zurin Arctus also being an Under King? If I remember correctly, Under King appeared after Tiber Septim didn't heed his warning about Numidium and ever since, Under King had cursed Tiber Septim. Although appearantly it was the Under King who had been trying to stop King of Worms all this time. Can they all be parts of each other, if Under King against Tiber Septim?

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Both Greybeards and Parthunax state there is more to come for Dragonborn, something grand. Weather it is an alusion to restoring Dragonborn bloodline onto the Imperial throne, it is debatable. Also, if Tiber Septim...

      some people just hate themselves.

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    • I can name 3 possibilities for the next Emperor, or Empress:

      1 - Alexia Vici, Vittoria's mother, also related to the Emperor (I think). She was present at the wedding.

      2 - The descendants of Andorak Septim (who by rights should've taken the Ruby Throne immediately after the Oblivion Crisis) who are supposedly still ruling in Shornhelm in the Fourth Era.

      3 - Amaund Motierre, he seemed confident he would become the next Emperor if the assassination was successful. But you have an option to kill him.

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    • The Underking wasn't really Zurin Arctus, it was Wulfharth of Atmora. Wulfharth was turned into the Underking when Tiber Septim had Zurin Arctrus and some guards trap Wulfharth in order to suck out the divine part (Lorkhan's part) of his soul so that the Numidium could be powered. In this event Wulharth managed to Thu'um the guards to death and Zurin Arctus to ash before he dissapeared. Tiber Septim would soon after stroll in, collect the Mantella soul gem and then accuse Zurin Arctus of betraying him in another assassination plot despite referring to the ash pile Zurin Arctus had become as a heroic guard. Perhaps Tiber Septim publicly reffered to Wulfhath (while the Underking) as Zurin Arctus because no one would like the idea of the Nordic diety Ysmir (the first one) becoming undead.

      There's the possibility that the Vici's were related to Titus Mede II through his mother (assuming she wasn't the empire's monarch, if so then related to the father). Andorak Septim , his father  and even his heirs, were all able to wear the Amulet of Kings (I'm making an educated guess here since I think it was Uriel Septim IV who was Andorak's father) so the Mythic Dawn could have offed them to as a precaution to prevent the Dragonfire's relighting, so I'm unfamiliar with any post-oblivion refferences to that branch of the Septims surviving. As for Motierre it seems to me that he'd have become potentate seeing as how Titus' death could create an Interregnum allowing Motierre (if a powerful figure on the Elder Council) to become potentate like Ocato and that ancient Akaviri potentate.

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    • I support idea of Dragonborn,as first ones were Dragonborns...But also of Balgruuf,they are both good for it...Dragonborn could be General,good idea,too...

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    • 78.28.71.34 wrote:
      I support idea of Dragonborn,as first ones were Dragonborns...But also of Balgruuf,they are both good for it...Dragonborn could be General,good idea,too...

      I doubt our Dragonborn will end up an Emperor. Bethesda like magically making player characters disappear or morph into something more workable without rendering player decisions in prevous games void (the Nerevarine went to Akavir and was never heard from again, the Hero of Kvatch become Sheogorath, all of the preceding game characters just faded into obscurity immediately), so why would that change now?

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    • Bethesda could just make a child or descendent of the player the Emperor and write, "and so blank, a descendent of the Dragonborn who defeated Alduin during the Dragon crisis hero of Skyrim went and secured the Ruby Throne for themself".

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    • well that's assuming the next game is also set a couple hundred years after this one.

      also their would have to be an ancestral line that would practically force the dragonborn into a canon marriage.

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    • Not really, no one's ever heard of Alessia ancsetry, or Reman Cyrodil's or Tiber Septim's. They all just claimed a link to being Dragonborn or Dragonblood and that was that.

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    • I think they should just keep it to one era like with the 4 first games... Or skyrim could at least be 4th era year 10 or something... instead of doing a 200 year skip...

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    • Skyrim actually begins durning the 17th of Last Seed (sometime during Tamrielic Fall) during the 201st year of the Fourth Era. So its been acouple of centuries since the Oblivion crisis.

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    • that's waht's bad... just just continue on like from arena to dagggerfal to morrowind to oblivion

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    • It might be so that in game lore, there is one main character that appears twice as main character. Some say that Eternal Champion and Hero of Daggerfall, could as well be one and the same character. In the begining of Elder Scrolls II, Uriel Septim VII refers to your character as an old and loyal friend, and the best person for this kind of job. Might that mean that the main character was supposed to have been the same person? Oh have anyone noticed how different Uriel Septim VII looked like troughout series. In Arena he was with the beard (not sure if it was gray haired), in Daggerfall he was practically bald, finaly next time we saw him in  Oblivion, he had long gray-white hair, with no beard. I am not sure if people really change in that kind of order. 

      I was wrong who really is the Under King, but the point is, how can they be all parts of each other, if one cannot stand one of them? They are forced to make Talos together anyways?

      Also, is there any sourse that tells in detail the lineage of Titus Mede II? Or any mention of descendants of Septim line in 4th era? Where exactly is that place that Septims still rule?

      As much as Eder Scrolls supposed to make sense in these kind of things, they sometimes don't appearantly.

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    • Draconi Nascentum Imperatore wrote:
      Not really, no one's ever heard of Alessia ancsetry, or Reman Cyrodil's or Tiber Septim's. They all just claimed a link to being Dragonborn or Dragonblood and that was that.

      what I meant with "ancestral line" was that, as the emperor, The Dragonborn would be recorded in history, his race, his gender(I'm using his even though the DB can be Female) his wife, his children, his entire life, especially if he's the start of a new line of Dragonborn Emperors, everything about his life after he becomes emperor would be recorded.

      if you don't see a problem with having everything about a playable character recorded as fact and proven to have happened, well then, you're not really an Elder Scrolls fan.

      and if you find that offensive then good.

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    • Obviously the Dragonborn's story and actions would become a vague legend by the next game, yet what I was arguing was that the Dragonborn could remain a vague figure while another figure (who happens to descend, distantly from said figure) takes the throne. While its' true that each player determines what occurs during the events of each game and its' dlc's, any event that occur to the figures after the game is beyond the gamer's control, (i.e. Bethesda decided that after the events of Morrowind and it's dlc's the Nerevarine embarked upon a trip to Akavir and has yet to return, I bet you that most players didn't plan that out the  Nerevrine's future to be that way prior to Oblivion's release). For example, the Dragonborn could just decide to live away in seclusion after the events in Skyrim and it's dlc's and whaterver the hero does after the game is up to Bethesda (offspring could be produced or not in order to carry on the Dragonblood after the game, a marriage wouldn't have to be documented). 

      What I meant, by my arguement is that they could create a lore character who claimed descent from the Skyrim Dragonborn (I even think Reman Cyrodil originally claimed relation to Alessia despite a more than a few centuries between them. I never ,meant that the Dragonborn themself could be canonically made Emperor what I wrote was that a child or descedent of the Dragonborn could become emperor. Now I admit that a child of the Dragonborn taking taking over the Ruby Throne (not by inheritance obviously, but by intrigue or the Talosian way) but the idea that some random contender to be Emperor a a century or more after the events of Skyrim claiming to be descended from the Dragonborn isn't really far fetched. I mean the Caesar and Augustus claimed descent from Romulus the founder of Rome, and in turn Venus through Aeneas. Even today if someone in Asia claimed descent from Genghis Khan it could be believed.

      It's established canon that Reman Cyrodil claimed descent from St. Alessia, a dragonborn (although a special one) and the first empress. Whether Reman Cyrodil's claim was propaganda is irrelevant, the point is he said ,"The first empress and Akatosh's prophet was my ancestor, therfore I should be emperor". This is the example I'm offerering, a future throne contender claiming the player in Skyrim was an ancestor (they don't have to be specific and say he or she, just say the Dragonborn was an ancestor). If you really don't belive that the lore contains an example of an founding Emperor claiming descent from a heroic figure then search up a few wikis on the Elder Scrolls since you're so confident, if

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    • Draconi Nascentum Imperatore wrote:
      Obviously the Dragonborn's story and actions would become a vague legend by the next game, yet what I was arguing was that the Dragonborn could remain a vague figure while another figure...

      you are correct, the choices that are made after the game do not interfere with what you do durring the game, but as I said, if the Dragonborn HIMSELF becomes emperor everything from that point on would be recorded, like who they married and what race they are, and some people might have a problem with who the Dragonborn marries(and to an extent what race he is)

      But if as your option states, in the future a descendant, or someone who claimes to descend from the dragonborn has a chance of becoming emperor, as long as they don't reveal certain details of the Dragonborns life.

      But as I said, the Dragonborn will NEVER become Emperor, and if he does I'll eat my copy of skyrim.  not even joking, I will litterally boil my disk, pour some marinara on it, and salt to taste.

      Also almost everyone is descended from ghengis khan.

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    • Pink Slim
      Pink Slim removed this reply because:
      Quoted instead of edited.
      02:08, June 20, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • I do think the Skyrim Dragonborn could take the throne after Meade's death but it would be canonically unlikely due to as mentioned above by many people that Bethesda makes the playable characters go away and I do believe that the a offspring of dragonborn taking the throne is possible but still unlikelly since there is no canon of what the the dragonborn's race is and that would effect the offspring. So maybe the new emperor/emperiss will be wearing a cloak to hide thier race to keap it open to the player's choices in the game.

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    • How long has it been since Talos had become emperor and then died? Yet, everybody knows of him and many of his actions have been recorded. First, the Dragonborn has done unimaginable things, of course his actions are going to be recorded! They're not just going to fade into history!

      Second, unlike other heroic emperors, the Dragonborn is a player character that, like all player characters, was created with a blank slate and was meant to have his/her own backstory/motives/goals as I'm sure we've all applied to our own Dragonborns. Which is why some descendent claiming his ancestor was the Dovahkiin simply won't work. The Dovahkiin is generally considered a Nord, but what if somebody chose to make him a Khajiit? The descendant emperor would have to be a khajiit.

      Third, what if my Dragonborn didn't plan on becoming emperor, but only wanted Skyrim freed? Another person's Dragonborn could've been some sort of thief-assassin that became Listener of the Dark Brotherhood. It wouldn't make sense for Bethesda to tie the Dragonborn down by making him or a descendent emperor.

      Finally, I think the Nerevarine traveling to Akavir was a good way to explain why he was away from Tamriel, without making everyone else's view of him void. Who knows, he could be vacationing in Akavir, or slaughtering the snake people living there.

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    • MassiveScrolls wrote:

      Which is why some descendent claiming his ancestor was the Dovahkiin simply won't work.

      It could work, but only if it's so far down the line that it wouldn't be too out of the question that the descendant of the dragonborn is from a completely different race.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:

      MassiveScrolls wrote:

      Which is why some descendent claiming his ancestor was the Dovahkiin simply won't work.

      It could work, but only if it's so far down the line that it wouldn't be too out of the question that the descendant of the dragonborn is from a completely different race.

      Yeah, but how far will we have to go? I think it'd have to be more than just 200 years, and if we missed a new emperor being crowned and a Great War starting and ending within the span of 200 years, think of how much we're going to miss if the next game skips ahead 500 years? Honestly, I think Bethesda could be more creative than just make the next TES game be about the descendent emperor of the Dragonborn.

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    • MassiveScrolls wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:

      MassiveScrolls wrote:

      Which is why some descendent claiming his ancestor was the Dovahkiin simply won't work.

      It could work, but only if it's so far down the line that it wouldn't be too out of the question that the descendant of the dragonborn is from a completely different race.
      Yeah, but how far will we have to go? I think it'd have to be more than just 200 years, and if we missed a new emperor being crowned and a Great War starting and ending within the span of 200 years, think of how much we're going to miss if the next game skips ahead 500 years? Honestly, I think Bethesda could be more creative than just make the next TES game be about the descendent emperor of the Dragonborn.

      Didn't say it would happen, just that it would be possible, if they do infact do ANOTHER century+ skip I'll be rather disapointed.

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    • I guess it does make sense that Dragonborn cannot become Emperor in the game. The closest to a ruler or king Dragonborn can be, is becoming a leader of Valkhir clan. At least the character can be recognized as a local nobility in each hold. Wishing for Dragonborn to take Ruby Throne during a dlc would be too much. Being comander of forces that wage war against Thalmor and reclaim Imperial status in Tamriel, is more likely. Perhaps in the next game they would add to the lore that Dragonborn did become the Emperor, but who knows.

      Oh and to remind you, it is to this day in 4 era is debatable which race Tiber Septim really way. Some sources say he came from High Rock kingdom of Alcairn, some say that he actually was one of the last Atmorans to come to Tamriel from Atmora. I am sure Helmir (sp? the annoying priest of Talos in Whiterun) would say that Talos was a true Nord. While some would claim that he was really an Imperial. The point is, it is obscure what really was the race of Talos in life. Some claim that statues from Oblivion suggest that he looks like Breton. But does he look like Breton in statues of Skyrim?

      Lastly, it is true that there is no cannon as you can choose whichever race. However, the default choice is always the one that comes from Province the action is taking place in. From what I know, in Morrowind they have a Dunmer as a defoult, in Oblivion they had an Imperial and ofcourse in Skyrim they have a Nord as the original choise. Tht ofcourse, until player changes any setting. Might that be considered as a cannon? Also, I believe that in some later references, after Morrowind, you can find suggestions that Nerevarine was a Dunmer. They mention it on wiki, that somewhere, maybe in Oblivion you can find such a reference. Also, in Dragonborn Dlc, Neloth Telvani, clearly states that Nerevarine was a male. However, can we take those references seriously? They do say that everything that Neloth says should be taken with a grain of salt. However, probably regarding other things. Ok, I'm saying way too much on this topic right now, and I think I might be loosing even myself here.

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    • about Talos... true. I had a rebuttal, but when I reread it to proof for errors it sounded rather irrelevant.

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    • the dragonborn can't be emperor because then they would have to give him a real official name and gender and thus basicly all player created dragonborns are...i just forgot where i was going with that. eh. i'm sure you guys can figure it out.

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    • One thing for sure, they could have done a better job at laying down Mede Dynasty. Between Titus Mede I and Titus Mede II, there is only one other Empror (technicaly, the heir of Titus I). Other then that, no explanation. For all we know Motier will succed at becoming a Potentate, or maybe it would be recorded that he had died. Perhaps next we know Thalmor will recreate their Dominion over men. But nothing would be as scary as Ulfric Stormcloak becoming a High King and laying a claim on an empty Imperial throne as well. I guess the events after Skyrim would be up to Besedha to decide. Remember also, if you have chosen to destroy Dark Brotherhood, Mede would rule Tamriel for many years to come probably...we just need to know who's the heir.

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    • The default dragonborn can be a blond nord "Emperor Prisoner I"

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    • If a dragon dynasty needs to be in the throne so the oblivion gates are closed... doesnt that means the gates are going to open again? Well, if the dovahkiin becames the new dynasty after the "history" of the game, it will make sense.

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    • 85.87.179.48 wrote:
      If a dragon dynasty needs to be in the throne so the oblivion gates are closed... doesnt that means the gates are going to open again? Well, if the dovahkiin becames the new dynasty after the "history" of the game, it will make sense.

      after the Oblivion crisis the Oblivion Gates were closed permenantly.

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    • What Pink Slim said. If there still was the threat of Oblivion gates opening, they would have done so long time ago, since Mede Dynasty do not have Dragonblood whatsoever. Unlike Septims, their first Emperor, definetly was not a Dragonborn. Now that I think of it, there is no need for a Dragonborn Emperor anymore, unless there is a way to recreate the Amulet of Kings. Which I think isn't possible.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      One thing for sure, they could have done a better job at laying down Mede Dynasty. Between Titus Mede I and Titus Mede II, there is only one other Empror (technicaly, the heir of Titus I). Other then that, no explanation. For all we know Motier will succed at becoming a Potentate, or maybe it would be recorded that he had died. Perhaps next we know Thalmor will recreate their Dominion over men. But nothing would be as scary as Ulfric Stormcloak becoming a High King and laying a claim on an empty Imperial throne as well. I guess the events after Skyrim would be up to Besedha to decide. Remember also, if you have chosen to destroy Dark Brotherhood, Mede would rule Tamriel for many years to come probably...we just need to know who's the heir.

      Usually all the events surrounding a faction always happen, its' just that the player character isn't mentioned in the events. Most likely all the possibilities that occured during the DB questline will occur, due to the fact that the Hero of Kvatch had the option for killing Lucien Lachance when first approached (you would even recieve a jounal entry for that). In Skyrim the purging of the sanctuary that occured in Oblivion was referenced along with the DB infiltrator who kept his mother's head like in Friday the 13th. Cicero's jounal's and random dialogue from Lachance's ghost confirm this.

      The way Bethesda laid out the Mede Dynasty seemed a bit empty to me as well, I mean there could have been some books detailing the Dominion's rise and the Empire's response, while at the same time throwing a few Imperial Monarch's names around. As for the way the Skyrim Civil War will be recorded lorewise, it's one of two options, either the developers alienate half the players choices by declaring one side the winner or pull another Dragonbreak (the Dragonbreak option being more likely in my opinion).

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    • I would think Dragonbreak could be in order, it just this time arround there would be too many contradicting outcomes. Like how would even Dragonbreak achive a fact that Elisif ended up Hight Queen, at the same time as Ulfric is High King? Sure they could be married in that outcome, but not likely. The point of it would be that each one of them is in power at the same time. With Dark Brotherhood and Emperor's death, it may be easier. I mean I could see the out come when even though Dark Brotherhood got destroyed, Titus Mede II was slained nevertheless. I am sure there are even more contradictions, but the only other one I can think of is having Balgruf and Vignar to be Jarls of Whiterun at the same time as well. They would have to use a heck of creativity to pull out Dragonbreak again.

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    • OHGOD, a Dragonbreak is gonna cleave Skyrim into two countries isn't it? you can even see where it can split. and if it does they'll still be connected to Highrock.

      what other actual choice options can actually change the future?

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    • The Dragonbreak could just see the establishment of a dual monarchy system during Elisif and Ulfric's rule (I don't mean like Austria-Hungary, more like Ancient Sparta) were there are two monarchs with equal power (rather than one during war anther in peace). As for the individual jarls, I don't think that Bethesda would care to much to specify what happend to the individual holds (I think that for Daggerfall Bethesda just mentioned the main powers while being more abstract about the fates of those lower in the hierarchy.

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    • The only Hold I'd think is of importance is whiterun.

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    • Why would Whiterun's fate really be mentioned in any real detail? I doubt Bethesda would mention who the jarl was, only the event of Odavhing's capture, which doesn't really require the jarl's name to be mentioned. Just, "the Jarl of Whiterun entered into an agreement with the Dragonborn".

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    • both sides of the war were focused almost entierly on winning over Whiterun to their side, and when after the battle of whiterun whoever won was pretty much the victor of the war.

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    • I see where you are going with Austo-Hungary. Even though Hungary recieved status of kingdom inside Empire, Emperor Franz Joseph II was crowned king of Hungary himself. So one person became Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary all at the same time. There was a time in Russia, when after a hostle takeover, both sides were forced to come to an agreement. Since both heirs (half brothers) were not of age yet, or one of them didn't have a government mind. They decided, that Tsar Peter I and his half borther Ivan V, will be rulling jointly. However, their older sister (Half sister of Peter), will be a regent and will be advising both boys until they are ready to rule themselves. When Peter I got older, he avanged the death of his family relatives at the time of hustle take over. He ended Sofia's regency and forced her to become a nun in monestery. Appearantly, back in Russia, when royalty wished to get rid of an unwanted woman. Instead of execution, they forced them to become a nun, as that would sighn off all of the earthly possessions and claims. Technically, Peter the Great and Ivan V had ruled together even longer. With time though, Ivan's health was starting to fail as he was frail all along and with time Peter the Great became the sole Tsar of Russia. Ivan V, died shortly before Peter's great victories in Northern War. His daugher Anna would rule Russia for 10 years later, after a short sucession of Peter I's wife Chaterine I (only 2 years of reighn), and his grandson Peter II (about 3 years if I am not mistaken). Appearntly both monarchs burned themself out with alchohol and partying. In case of Peter II, he was a teenager of 12 or so, striken by some serious illness during those times. It was 1730, they though his young organizm would beat the illness that takes most adults, but alas he died. In anycase, that enough of Russian history here, I think I have long as made my point on dual monarchy.

      Although on more Tamrielic Empire note, to compare it to Roman Empire. There was a time of Tetrarchy in there, when there were Three, or even four Emperors who ruled over different regions. Towards the end, it came down to just two, Constantine and Mexentian. For those who know what Istabul used to be called, have the idea of the outcome of that strugle.

      Who knows, perhaps Tamrielic Empire wouldn't be in such truouble, if there would be more then one Emperor ruling over the Continent, preferably natives of the regions. Then again, at one point they all could get to each other's throats and kill each other to have just one soul Emperor.

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    • The decision to divide Rome into a tetrarchy ranks with having barbarians fight for Rome as one of the worst decisions the Roman Empire ever made. As for bringing up the Tetrarchy Legate Alexandros, you just gave me an idea, perhaps it couldn't work for the Empire as a whole, but perhaps a Skyrim under the Empire could work with these governmental mechanics with both Ulfric and Elisif in charge.

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    • I also though of something else, if Empire to survive with Emperor, they need a higher council of sorts. The ruler of each province, within the Empire would be part of that council, which would act as ultimate legislature. Emperor would be meeting with High Kings, or whoever they call their leaders and together they would decide policies. I don't know how they choose a King or High King in High Rock, but in Skyrim moot of Jarls chooses the new High King if there are no heir to claim the throne. You could say that at least in Skyrim, it's more or less a  popular vote. It may be assumed then, that rulers of provinces can act like representatives to represent the issues within their lands before Emperor or Empress. The authority of higher council, might as well override the autority of elder council.

      Or they can have something like Peter the Great made in Russia after crowning himself an Emperor. He found Senate and Synode. Senate was for civil maters, while Synode was for religious. He himself made himself a head of both and presided over both. Before Peter the Great, it was Patriarh of Moscow who was the head of Russian Ortodox church, but after Peter the Great, Patriarhat was reestablished in 1917, after the first Revolution. In anyways, thechinically Emperor was supposed to preside over those two bodies, but if he couldn't the portrait of the monarch was enough. Although later, in 1905 Nicholas II went on compromise and founded Duma, the first true Parliament in Russia. The first constitution was writen then too and the first steps to Constitutional monarchy were taken. However, that project didn't work out so well. My opinion, is that Russia was still too young for those kind of changes. If Alexander II wasn't killed before he could give Russia constitution that he had drafted in 1881, perhaps Revolution wouldn't have happen. Between then and 1917, there might have been enough time for the idea of Constitutional monarchy to work right.

      Perhaps Empire of Tamriel could use a form of Constitutional monarchy, where each province represented on the council by their leaders. Ofcourse, by the time of Titus Mede, those provinces are just Cyrodil, Skyrim and High Rock. Time will tell if Hammerfell would want to rejoine the Empire, but it seems that both Hammerfell and Morrowind are self sufficient and couldn't be happier without the Empire. If it was proven that they need Empire to survive, that would be a different story.

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    • I think all the high ranking generals (i.e. General Tulius), the counts of Cyrodil, and the monarchs of each imperial province are already on the Elder Council, the de facto legislature. I'm not sure if  any important priests or the vassals of each ruler also have seats or not. As for a college of priests that seems like a good idea, I mean Ancient Rome had an organized system of priests with their own specialties (augury, harucpice, soothsaying, etc.) so that should fit in with the Empire. Except that in the Elder Scrolls they could show more organization within each divine's priestly order with all of them culminating with the High Priests of each Divine forming a college beneath the Emperor, a sort of Pontifex Maximus.

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    • Could somebody please explain the political arrangements and anecdotes a little more concisely, please? There's a little bit of tangentiality and I overall had trouble understanding the points Legate and Draconi made. Thanks.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • If they are already on the elder council, which means that each province represented. What is the thing with Stormcloaks? Possibly because High King is handpicked by the Empire for a long time. However, does the statement of Dengier of Stunh is really true? That Emperor too far away to know of issues of Skyrim? I am sure that all the provincial representetives of elder council have all the oportunities in the world to pressent their province's issues for discussion. However, it could be just like an old Russian saying. "It's too high to reach a God and too far to reach a Tsar." Even if Russian people belived that Tsar trully cared about his people, they belived that there always was too many formalities to actually meet him. Or the fact that he surrounded by bad people, who won't let him know of people's suffering.

      I am sorry Wikia contributor, as far as I go, I often present examples from Russian or world history, which may or may not directly related to discussion. I forget sometimes that my knowledge is not a common knowledge. I am Russian, living in USA, who happened to be a historian in spirit (I would be by trade, if I was able to get my Bachelor's degree from college). So basically I am a self proclaimed historian that likes to share his knowledge. I cannot say for the other person, but I have the feeling, it's a similar to my case. I am sorry for any missunderstandings, or inconviniences.

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    • No, that's okay. I think I can figure it out. I have a bit of a turn towards history and culture studies myself. ;P

      - WorshipsMeridia

      P.S. You can call me by my signature. That's part of why I created it, and it's so much better than plain "Wikia Contributor", isn't it?

      -WM

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    • Im just gonna say this. But it was largely suggested that Amaund would be the Emperor. However in real life. Emperors normally have successors that go out in the hundreds,I highly doubt the Emperor didnt have any brothers,sisters,(more) cousins,uncles,nieces,nephews. Also its not canon you kill the Emperor,they is an option to destroy the dark brotherhood.

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    • 65.94.90.231 wrote:
      Im just gonna say this. But it was largely suggested that Amaund would be the Emperor. However in real life. Emperors normally have successors that go out in the hundreds,I highly doubt the Emperor didnt have any brothers..

      It's not cannon that YOU kill the emperor, but the way things usually play out, the emperor's death at the hands of an assassin is inevitable. and I'm pretty sure that Titus Mede II is either an only child, or is the last of his siblings.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      65.94.90.231 wrote:
      Im just gonna say this. But it was largely suggested that Amaund would be the Emperor. However in real life. Emperors normally have successors that go out in the hundreds,I highly doubt the Emperor didnt have any brothers...
      It's not cannon that YOU kill the emperor, but the way things usually play out, the emperor's death at the hands of an assassin is inevitable. and I'm pretty sure that Titus Mede II is either an only child, or is the last of his siblings.

      No...Dude no.

      I said there was a OPTION TO DESTROY THE DARK BROTHERHOOD.

      Who would assassinate the Emperor if there is no one to kill him???

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    • 65.94.90.231 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      65.94.90.231 wrote:
      Im just gonna say this. But it was largely suggested that Amaund would be the Emperor. However in real life. Emperors normally have successors that go out in the hundreds,I highly doubt the Emperor didnt have...
      It's not cannon that YOU kill the emperor, but the way things usually play out, the emperor's death at the hands of an assassin is inevitable. and I'm pretty sure that Titus Mede II is either an only child, or is the last of siblings.
      No...Dude no.

      I said there was a OPTION TO DESTROY THE DARK BROTHERHOOD...

      The Dark Brotherhood aren't the only assassins, when ammaund finds out that the dark brotherhood is destroyed he'll find someone else to do it. just because the DBH is destroyed(which it wasn't completely destroyed seeing as neither Cicero nor Babbete are killed) doesn't mean that Titus Mede survives.

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    • Who knows weather two assassins will be able to organize a new brotherhood? However, there is always Morag Tang. Those used to be "legal" assassins used by Empire in Morrowind. However, would they really operate outside Morrowind, let alone accept contract from the member of Elder Council? Besides, I don't think Morag Tang are Imperial Assassins anymore. Seems like ever since Empire left, they can be found in anyone's employ in Morrowind. Although, perhaps they are working for those who support the Empire. Severin aka Ulen supported house Hlalu, which in term supported Empire. They have employed Morag Tang, twice to take control of Solstheim. So there might be a chance that Morag Tang will work for a member of Elder Council.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      65.94.90.231 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      65.94.90.231 wrote:
      Im just gonna say this. But it was largely suggested that Amaund would be the Emperor. However in real life. Emperors normally have successors that go out in the hundreds,I highly doubt the Emperor didnt have any...
      It's not cannon that YOU kill the emperor, but the way things usually play out, the emperor's death at the hands of an assassin is inevitable. and I'm pretty sure that Titus Mede II is either an only child, or is the last of his siblings.
      No...Dude no.

      I said there was a OPTION TO DESTROY THE DARK BROTHERHOOD...

      The Dark Brotherhood aren't the only assassins, when ammaund finds out that the dark brotherhood is destroyed he'll find someone else to do it. just because the DBH is destroyed(which it wasn't completely destroyed seeing...

      If you think Cicero would kill the Emperor,I pray for you.

      How would a madman get past high secruity like the Pentius Ocatlus?

      And the reason Babette didnt die was because Betheseda was scared to see kids die.

      She was removed because children are invincable.

      And when Amaund thought the DBH was destroyed,did he hire anyone else?

      Was there any mention?

      No.

      Dont call made up stuff canon.

      Its just not right.

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    • 65.94.90.231 wrote:

      If you think Cicero would kill the Emperor,I pray for you...

      1. Cicero is a more skilled assassin than my character when I killed the emperor.

      2. Babette surviving means more than just "oh, we can't kill kids."

      3. why should there be any mention of Amaund searching for different assassins, there was no mention of him searching for assassins before you joined the DBH, he's not searching for the Dragonborn, he's searching for an assassin. 

      like you said, Don't call made up stuff canon, as we've seen before, when there are options like this, usually both happen. So The Emperor's death IS almost inevitable.


      GET DUNKED!!!

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      65.94.90.231 wrote:

      If you think Cicero would kill the Emperor,I pray for you....

      1. Cicero is a more skilled assassin than my character when I killed the emperor...

      1.Cicero,sure he is a skilled Assassin,Im not doubting that.

      Its just he wont be able to kill the emperor.

      2. Destroy the dark brotherhood.

      Is Babette EVER seen again?

      Is she EVER head again?

      NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPEEE. (chuck testa)

      3.You cleary read my paragraph wrong.

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    • Cicero could get past security like that with trickery. He could pretend that he wants to be court jester. If you read his diary, he mentioned that he pretended to be an adoring fan of Grand Champion of the Arena, before he slit his troat in the forest. He might be acting like he's a mad man, but he's a cold blooded killer that tiny Imperial. (seriously, he's smaller even then a Breton in the game.) It is hard to say if Amaund Mottier was or was not looking for another assassin. The only thing that you can say with certainty, is that Amaund if afraid. He acts like he thinks you think he's responsible for massacar of Dark Brotherhood. I would say that if he was not looking for any other assassins, it was because he though that surviving members of Brotherhood will be after him.

      As far as Babette concerned, it could be the fact that she cannot be killed because she's a child. However, more likely she was out feeding at the moment. Speaking of which, it is possible, after Dark Brotherhood questline to be finish, to meet her out in the world. All of the sudden you hear a dying grunt of random person (like bantit) and a child exclaiming "Ah, a dead body!" Upon closer examination, you meet Babette over a dead body, claiming that she was out for a snack and not to tell Nazir about that.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Cicero could get past security like that with trickery. He could pretend that he wants to be court jester. If you read his diary, he mentioned that he pretended to be an adoring fan of Grand Champion of the Arena, before he slit his troat in the forest. He might be acting like he's a mad man, but he's a cold blooded killer that tiny Imperial. (seriously, he's smaller even then a Breton in the game.) It is hard to say if Amaund Mottier was or was not looking for another assassin. The only thing that you can say with certainty, is that Amaund if afraid. He acts like he thinks you think he's responsible for massacar of Dark Brotherhood. I would say that if he was not looking for any other assassins, it was because he though that surviving members of Brotherhood will be after him.

      PLEASE!!!PLEAAAAAAAAAASEEEEEEE!

      Dont tell me you actually think thats the same thing.

      Being a fan and following a winner of the arena is FAAAAAAAAAARRR

      different then getting past the Emperors highly trained secruity.

      PS Cicero would have a hard time doing that all by himself.

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    • 65.94.90.231 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      65.94.90.231 wrote:

      If you think Cicero would kill the Emperor,I pray for you.

      How would a madman get past high secruity like the Pentius Ocatlus?

      And the reason Babette didnt die was because Betheseda was scared to see kids die.

      She was removed because children are invincable.

      And when Amaund thought the DBH was destroyed,did he hire anyone else?

      Was there any mention?

      No.

      Dont call made up stuff canon.

      Its just not right.

      1. Cicero is a more skilled assassin than my character when I killed the emperor.

      2. Babette surviving means more than just "oh, we can't kill kids."

      3. why should there be any mention of Amaund searching for different assassins, there was no mention of him searching for assassins before you joined the DBH, he's not searching for the Dragonborn, he's searching for an assassin. 

      like you said, Don't call made up stuff canon, as we've seen before, when there are options like this, usually both happen. So The Emperor's death IS almost inevitable.


      GET DUNKED!!!

      1.Cicero,sure he is a skilled Assassin,Im not doubting that.

      Its just he wont be able to kill the emperor.

      2. Destroy the dark brotherhood.

      Is Babette EVER seen again?

      Is she EVER head again?

      NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPEEE. (chuck testa)

      3.You cleary read my paragraph wrong.

      1. you have literally no evidence on your #1 so it's irrelevant.

      2. Is Babette ever seen again? Does it matter? she survived, of course she's gonna be in hiding.

      3. what was there to read wrong besides personal bias?

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      65.94.90.231 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      65.94.90.231 wrote:

      If you think Cicero would kill the Emperor,I pray for you.

      How would a madman get past high secruity like the Pentius Ocatlus?

      And the reason Babette didnt die was because Betheseda was scared to see kids die.

      She was removed because children are invincable.

      And when Amaund thought the DBH was destroyed,did he hire anyone else?

      Was there any mention?

      No.

      Dont call made up stuff canon.

      Its just not right.

      1. Cicero is a more skilled assassin than my character when I killed the emperor.

      2. Babette surviving means more than just "oh, we can't kill kids."

      3. why should there be any mention of Amaund searching for different assassins, there was no mention of him searching for assassins before you joined the DBH, he's not searching for the Dragonborn, he's searching for an assassin. 

      like you said, Don't call made up stuff canon, as we've seen before, when there are options like this, usually both happen. So The Emperor's death IS almost inevitable.


      GET DUNKED!!!

      1.Cicero,sure he is a skilled Assassin,Im not doubting that.

      Its just he wont be able to kill the emperor.

      2. Destroy the dark brotherhood.

      Is Babette EVER seen again?

      Is she EVER head again?

      NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPEEE. (chuck testa)

      3.You cleary read my paragraph wrong.

      1. you have literally no evidence on your #1 so it's irrelevant.

      2. Is Babette ever seen again? Does it matter? she survived, of course she's gonna be in hiding.

      3. what was there to read wrong besides personal bias?

      dude.Its over.

      Also.

      2. You just proven yourself wrong.

      You said something about Babette being alive meaning that the Dark brotherhood wasnt destroyed.

      If shes in hiding,I really wouldnt clal her an asssassin anymore.

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    • Maybe it would be more challenging for Cicero to gain trust of the Security and Emperor, but mad people like that, who also could be funny, often found themselves entertaining rulers. Also, they often had the freedom of speach that no one else had. I mean everyone took them for a fool, so they said whatever was on their crazy mind. Most of the time they spoke truth like that. It would seem that people in Skyrim have little sense of humor, since there wasn't a merry man in those parts for 100 of years, but that doesn't mean that Oculatus and Emperor doesn't have a sense of humor. Unless they would recieve a tip off to look out for jester who will be a masquerading assassin. Although who knows, they might not let a funny, mad man into Emperor's tower to be present at his dinner, even if he could entartain his majesty. By the way, that same security should have a better job at knowing who is Gourmant, before just blindly waiting for whoever have a writ of passage. I mean they could either find out what the chef looks like, before Dark Brotherhood got to Antone (speaking of which, I killed him so good in his quorters, that no one in Markarth even knew the difference, I wasn't even in trouble with guards.) Also, I am sure whoever gave the chef the writ would have known who he was. Was it that hard to tell the guard at the tower, listen the Gourmant is an Orc, do not let anyone trough who is not an Orc, even if they have the writ. Although that could have all been a part of Oculatus' plan to get you, after all, the Emperor was a decoy, seems like they decided to let you 'slip' trough to get you later, after you poison or kill fake Emperor and get a set of 'fake' Imperial robes. (More then likely they were not fake, but you got the sarcasm point.)

      As far as Babette goes, if you did not choose to be a member of Dark Brotherhood, you wouldn't even know she existed. A madman, who is transporting the corpse of his mother, could have been anyone. The fact that farmer couple is dead if you fail to convince them to help Cicero, doesn't mean he's responsible. Unless of course you know exactly who he is and his promises to kill them were not empty treats.

      Also, suppose that you did joined the Dark Brotherhood and assassinated Emperor Titus Mede II. That doesn't mean that Amound Motiere will claim the throne eventually. If you play as honorable assassin and let a poor, old, connered man to speak his last words, you may choose to do his last will. I believe it would be the only honorable thing to do, if after you claim your payment you tell Amaund, that there is something an old honorable man wanted you to do. Then you can give him a traitor's death he deserves right there. That might be included in the next Elder Scrolls lore. Emperor Titus Mede was murdered by what seemed like Dark Brotherhood, when investigators found the one who ordred the murder, he was already dead. Councelor Amaund Motiere, was hoping that he would claim ruby throne when he would assassinate Emperor with Dark Brotherhood, he didn't count on the same brotherhood to back stab him. No one in their right mind should try contacting Dark Brotherhood, at the end it can hurt them too! Or something along those lines I am sure.

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    • The Dovahkiin is the only one with a legitament claim to Cyrodiil.

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    • True in a way, though if the Dovahkin did take it the Empire would then truely become the fourth empire as only a Dovahkin can forge a succesor empire. The "Meade Empire" is just the legal continuation of the Septim Empire (just as much as the Potentate before the Stormcrown Interregnum was).

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    • That what I always say, Dragonborn have more right to ruby throne then Titus Mede. But Pink here claimes that that will just ruin the story. Not to mention few problems of describing the Dragonborn Emperor after Titus Mede. Although the developers might just use a default for Dovahkin, the Nord model. Just like in Oblivion it was an Imperial and in Morrowind it was Dunmer. It was basically suggested by Greybeards, that our Dovahkin is continuing the legacy of Talos himself. Just like Talos, he or she was found a Dragonborn at the time of important battle, then they were summoned by Greybeards, just like Talos was. Finally, they bestowed the same title on Dragonborn, like on Talos; Yismir-Dragon of the North. (Speaking of which, originaly Yismir was an ancient Nordic devine, who in term used to be Wulfheart of Atmora and was associated with fox. Technically, Wulfheart was the first mortal man to be made a devine and appearantly they also though of him as Avatar of Shor) Also, the time of strife during civil war, is similar, if on a smaler scale to the strife during stormcrown interregnum. Also, did Mede family had any right to crown themselves as Emperors? Shouldn't they have been Potentates instead? Or not being a Dragonborn doesn't matter in the Empire anymore and anyone who wants may contest the ruby throne?

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    • Wait, I need to amend my previous statement to also include those of the Dragonblood as well. So technically a far enough removed descendent of the Dovahkin could claim the Ruby Throne on the basis of their ancestor being the Dragonborn.

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    • The way I see it, the first of every dynasty always was Dovakin, like Tiber Septim. St. Alesia was blessed by Akatosh and that blessing helped her to free people from Aylieds and to find the first human Empire. The fact that she was considered the first Dragonborn before Mirak, suggests that she was a Dragonborn in more then just blood, but also in soul. I don't think there is much information about Dragonborn abilities of Ramen Cyrodil, but the fact that Akaviri Dragonguard proclaimed him the Dragonborn that they were looking for for so long, suggest that he was also full Dragonborn.

      From this we can conclude that all of the three dynasties were founded by true Dragonborns. Their descendants were considered Dragonborns by blood. However, weather they had the same abilities as their forefathers/mothers, still remains debatable. However, that doesn't make them any less suitable for the ruby throne. From this point of view, it's Mede family that have less legal claims then those who still have Dragonblood, or Dragonborn themselves.

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    • The Dragonborn can't become Emperor, that's just silly. What if he/she is an elf? Or a Khajiit? Or *gasp*... a-an Argonian!?!

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    • Well, first time for everything, lol and did I saying anything about Dragonborn hero of Skyrim? I don't think so. It certainly will not be our Dragonborn, but perhaps down the line there will be another who will go down in history as starter of the fourth Empire. And don't say that Skyrim's Dragonborn is the last! Yes the prophecy says something about the Last Dragonborn, but it can also mean the newest one since Tiber Septim. Even Greybeards agree that there might be more revealed. It is rare for two Dragonborn to appear at a time, but there is certainly a possibility later in history of Tamriel. Oh and Mirak doesn't count, he never actually physically got to Tamriel during Dragonborn. There was two Dragonborns at a time, but the second one wasn't in Tamriel, or Nirn for that matter.

      Also, surely there are still Dragonbloods out there, the indirect descendents of any three dynasties, especially the Septims. After the death of Titus Mede II, I am sure they would have their chance to lay a claim on ruby throne. If it will not be the Dragonborn or Dragonborn, it surely may be Dragonbloods that could save Tamriel by claiming ruby throne.

      Finally, it is quite possible that in the next Elder Scrolls, developers will come up with the lore of the Dragonborn to be definetly a Nord as such was the default. I mean, sure we have the freedom to choose the race and gender, but if you listen to Neloth Telvani, you can get an impression that Nerevarine was definetly a male and possibly a Dunmer as well. So, they might, or may not come up with something, that sugests that the Dragonborn was a Nord who saved Tamriel from the World Eater. Now, weather they will make him start the fourth Empire in the next Elder Scrolls, that is unkown and still opened to discussion. Perhaps the next one will be taking place on a different continent, and there would be not much information about what exactly happen in Tamriel after the events of Skyrim. Maybe in the next one, Atmora will melt enough to be livable again. We can only speculate, none of this is certain. From all we know, there will be no fourth Empire, since there seems to be no need for a Dragonborn Emperor. Maybe they will be just fine living as different kingdoms, it's just Aldmeri Dominion that needs to calm down and stop being such megalomaniacs! They also need to get a new leadership there, Thalmor want nothing but to destroy men and Mondus. If you ask me, Auriel needs to put Thalmor in time out and make them worship Talos as punishment, lol.

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    • @Legate Alexandros

      My comment was (mostly) intended to provide humor, which I think you got. You bring up a lot of interesting speculation about future Dragonborn/blood and possible directions for the Empire. You should apply to Bethesda in and become a brainstormer.

      Personally, I think Bethesda is determined to let the Empire continue its decaying slide and be non-existant by the time we see ESVI. I mean, look at it's state in Skyrim: an Empire that once controlled all of Tamriel has been reduced to two provinces (Skyrim and High Rock) and one of those is engaged in civil war. The Imperial Legion is a shell of its former self. The Emperor is completely unremarkable and murdered by the Dark Brotherhood. Basically, the Empire is in trouble. Does it really matter if the Mede line continues, or who the next Emperor is? Will they be able to bring the Empire back to its lost glory?

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    • No, I think we might be able to see the fall of the Empire in Elder Scrolls VI at least. Even still if the Dovahkin managed to alter fate through their defeat of the World-Eater (as the events of Skyrim offer an excellent opportunity to create a paradoxical Dragon Break, perhaps allowing more Dragonborn after "The Last Dragonborn). Well, if Bethesda does decide to Dragonbreak it, then all I can say is that the ultimate history of events that happened might be a bit strange.

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    • For once all together it's three provinces as Cyrodil should be included, even if it's Imperial province. Second, Titus Mede II did retake Imperial City and significant just for that. He was in command of releif force and devised the strategy to take back the capital. When I play as part of Legion in Skyrim, I like to believe that the White Gold Concordum was to bide time to rebuild the army that was lost in Great War. People like Ulfric cannot seem to see that, Empire will not allow outlawing of Talos forever. They like the Dominion to think that they accepted the terms, but then, once they strong enough, they will attack Dominion, gaining the element of surprise. Before Thalmor would know it, Empire would be in Alinor, probably helped by all those Altmer that hate Thalmor by now. Thus, the Crystal Concordum will be signed and Aldmeri Dominon might seize to exist. Oh, and if they will have Empire fall, I wonder if it would be anything like the fall of Rome at the hands of Vandals. Just immagine, Imperial City gets pillaged by swarms of Skyrim's Barbarians. Well, Nords not exactly the same kind of Barbarians, but they are the closest one to that, that they have in Elder Scrolls. And I have hard time finding job as it is, what makes you so sure that Besedha will even look at my application?

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    • Draconi Nascentum Imperatore wrote:
      No, I think we might be able to see the fall of the Empire in Elder Scrolls VI at least. Even still if the Dovahkin managed to alter fate through their defeat of the World-Eater (as the events of Skyrim offer an excellent opportunity to create a paradoxical Dragon Break, perhaps allowing more Dragonborn after "The Last Dragonborn). Well, if Bethesda does decide to Dragonbreak it, then all I can say is that the ultimate history of events that happened might be a bit strange.

      Do they?Alduin will return, no matter what.Also, a dragonbreak is rarer then 2 dragonborns shaking hands as well as being in the same era.

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    • Indeed, technically speaking, there wouldn't even be Mirak, if he wouldn't take off into Apocriptha like a coward. It is not like two Dragonborns shook hands then anyways. If I am not mistaken, Mirak was planing to take over the body of our Dragonborn and use it like a vessel to get back to Mondus. Also, who knows how long the 4th era will last? I belive usually Emperor decides when to end one and start the other, or there need to be some turning point event, like Oblivion Crysis and end of Septim dynasty. Perhaps the defeat of World Eater, Alduin himself, who the ancient Nords used to consider as the chief god, will fit under the end of the era event. However, in that case the 4th era would be the shortest era in history. Usually they are at least a thousand or so years long. Also, who knows how long our Dragonborn will live after Skyrim? Perhaps those darn, Thalmor Assassins will finally catch on to him or her.

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    • Only if they poison the Dragonborn, (unless they got developed a special perk or have an effect which lowers poison's effectiveness against them). lol

      Besides, without a Dragonbreak, Bethesda's going to have to take a side on who won the Skyrim Civil War, or come up with some outcome the player couldn't do (like the Empire and Stormcloaks partitioned Skyrim or made Skyrim a special province and had Ulfric and Elisif as dual monarchs).

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    • Well, there is no current heir to the throne. The Empire has to initiate a democratic rule to uphold the Empire from crumbling. That's my theory. The Empire establishes a democratic rule, rather than a monarchy. 

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    • Titus may have a heir we just don't know about...

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    • Nait Nelthar wrote:
      Titus may have a heir we just don't know about...

      plus he had(s) either an uncle or aunt, one of the parents of Vittoria Vici, who can be considered in line; although seeing as the last name is Vici it would be assumed that the aunt Alexia Vici is the relative, and she has a rough tendency to get killed by Veezara in the ensuing madness after Vitorria's death.

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    • So even if he doesn't have a son or daughter I guess his relatives are next in line...

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    • What about the guy Vitoria Vici married to? Technically they still got married, as he lives in her house afterwards by himself. He might not have Vici last name, but he would be considered a relative of Titus Mede II and in the absence of any other heirs, he would be the most likely candidate. Don't forget, that Mede is a very obscure dynasty in terms of explanation by Besedtha. All we know about this Dynasty, unlike Alesian, Ramen and Septim Dynastties; are the names of first, second and last Emperors so far. Whatever happened to at least 50 Emperors that could have been ruling in that almost 200 years period between first two Emperors and our favorite Titus Mede II? If they so obscure on that, there is a possiblity that Titus Mede II did had heirs that are unmentioned. Perhaps it going to be like Martin Septim all over again. Titus II, told someone that he have an illigitimate son somewhere and some exmember of Pontius Oculatus knows where he is.

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    • Hey, perhaps Titus Meade II had another cousin we don't know about and Motierre favored him over Titus. After all Titus being assassinated by the DB to ensure a policy change seems to echo the assassination of Pelagius I (as he was often confused during his rule and Kynetirah I was more competent).

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    • Titus Mede seems to be a pretty good ruler though.

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    • 72.224.36.209 wrote:
      Titus Mede seems to be a pretty good ruler though.

      to Cyrodiil yes, to the whole of the empire, I'd say he was about a 4/10

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    • Everyone only remember the part when he signed White Gold Concordum, whithin the Empire. Most people forget that he was the one who led the relief force that took Imperial City back from Aldmeri Dominion. Stormcloaks and I'm sure few others think that he betrayed his people. I am sure it pains him greatly to watch how worship of Talos is being outlawed by the Thalmor, but he needs to bide time. Great War ravadge Imperial Military might greatly, they need time to rebuild it, so they can strike back at Thalmor when they least expect it. Even General Talius belive that they soon go to war with Thalmor again.

      Oh and are you talking about Pelagius the Mad? Wasn't he Pelagius III, who was married to an Altmer princess Katariah? He was not assassinated, he was proven incompetent to rule at the point when he began to bite people comming to White Gold Tower. He was sent to mental Asalym in Bettany I belive and his wife Katariah took over. She was preaty good Empress, but unpopular since she was a mer. Oh and some believe that Pelagius's madness was given to him by Potema the Wolf Queen, towards the end of the war of Red Dimond. Some say that right before the end of Battle of Solitude, Pelagius was visited by an old woman who gave him a neckless. That neckless happened to be cursed with madness, and an old woman happened to be Potema in another form. Although those maybe just rummors. I believe I got the right Pelagius in here and he was married to Katariah if I am not mistaken.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Everyone only remember the part when he signed White Gold Concordum, whithin the Empire. Most people forget that he was the one who led the relief force that took Imperial City back from Aldmeri Dominion. Stormcloaks and I'm sure few others think that he betrayed his people. I am sure it pains him greatly to watch how worship of Talos is being outlawed by the Thalmor, but he needs to bide time. Great War ravadge Imperial Military might greatly, they need time to rebuild it, so they can strike back at Thalmor when they least expect it. Even General Talius belive that they soon go to war with Thalmor again.

      I'm not saying he was a bad leader to Cyordiil, he was a great leader to Cyrodiil, but for the entire empire, he was a good leader until the WGC, he sold a large portion of a country to his enemies for a short-term peace, he gave up the worship of one of the most popular gods(who is representative of humanity), and he sent troops to wage war on a group of people who wanted to split away from the empire.

      If I were a leader of an Imperial Province, I would not be afraid to assume that it is a possibility that The Emperor would sell my country as well, if the Thalmor threatened to attack Cyrodiil once more. 

      and another thing to note is that there is a possibility that the empire wants to send their troops from Skyrim(after they quell this rebellion) to Morrowind, to force them back under the imperial boot, I believe either to force them into their army and/or to appease to the Argonians so they can ask them for aid when the Aldmeri Dominion attacks them again.

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    • Cyrodil is the center of Empire of men, if Cyrodil will fall to the elves, there will be no more Empire. How can we tell if he enjoys those sacrafices himself? I am sure if Imperial Legion was strong enough, he wouldn't stand for those insults, he would march on Aldmeri Dominion. I maybe wrong and taking the Imperial side here, but the way I see, leaders of Stormcloak rebelion, too stuborn to see the big picture here. They would rather break away from Empire to keep their dignity, then wait for the right time and get back at Aldmeri Dominion for insulting men like that. I am sorry if my opinion isn't popular. Perhaps I see it in a wrong way, and there was no need for White Gold Concordum, that after Imperial City was taken back, the Legion was still stong enough to defeat the elves. But it seems unlikely to me, the way I see it, instead of playing blame games, Ulfric should have talked to the Imperial authorities about how better to get back at Aldmeri Dominion. That rebelion, whouldn't bring reinstating Talos to the entire Empire quicker, if anything, it would hinder that cause. Then again, Nords were never good with politics. The way I see it, they need united Empire more then ever, by giving Hammerfell to Aldmeri Dominion, they probably were counting on them spliting from AD and carving a bloody swipe trough them. That probably weakened Aldmeri Dominon some, that is also the reason why Thalmor would be interested in keeping Civil War in Skyrim going on as well, they know that Redguards had weakened them, now they are trying to weaken the Empire. Thalmor also no fools, an they know that eventually the Empire will try to get back what they lost in Great War. Empire needs to be united (that includes the lands that were lost in great war) and worship of Talos needs to be reinstated, but they need to do it smartly, they already tried to go head on with that (terms of White Gold Concordum and disbandment of Blades was demanded on 30th of Frostfall, before the Great War started, Emperor refused them then) and then only led Empire to being owned by Aldmeri Dominion in Great War. If Empire ever to get back Hammerfell and reinstate the worship of Talos, they need to play it cool. It would seem that some hot headed Nords, want to ruin that and hinder the effort. Also, none of them might know that, but we do Thalmor are worst enemies then any of them think, so instead of fighting civil wars, they need to band together and show Thalmor their rightful place (near toilet, lol).

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      What Nait said, but that exactly how I was planning to have the next dlc progressing. A lot of thing within the story, suggested of Dragonborn association with Talos. Even the ghost at old Hroldan belived that you were Hialti, which was the name of Talos in the youth. Now lets look at the events prior to Tiber Septim becoming an Emperor. Last Ramen Emperor was assassinated, or died after all of his heirs were assassinated by Morag Tang! Interregnum time! Sounds like that councilor guy who orders assassination wants to be the potentate himself, I'm talking about the one in 4th era. However you can kill him to as the last request of Emperor Titus Mede II.

      To make long story short, your character gains enough popularity to be proclaimed the new Dragonborn Emperor/Empress, Blades are reformed as their bodyguards (and no to killing Parthunax!). Next, you expell Thalmor from every province Empire still holds. Possibly make an alliance with Morrowind and Hammerfell, and if they are willing, Blackmarsh and Elsewyer. Finally, you lead your forces on to Summerset Isles and Aldmeri Dominion. You sack Crystal Tower (if it is rebuilt by then) and then you force them to sighn "Crystal Tower Concordant" which tell the elves to stay out of human religion (let them worship Talos if they want to.), or equally they would be forced to denounce one of their devines like Auriel or Magnus. Since I am sure they won't denounce any of their devines, they would be forced to let the Empire to reinstate Talos as a devine. Then both nations can work on better coexsisting together. Everyone happy...but Thalmor :D

      Sorry if it was longer then I expected. The point is, your character is a new Emperor/Empress, Empire possibly reunited, Thalmor put in their place!

      Auriel is the Altmer version of Akotosh, to deny Auriel would mean to deny Akotosh himself.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Cyrodil is the center of Empire of men, if Cyrodil will fall to the elves, there will be no more Empire. How can we tell if he enjoys those sacrafices himself? I am sure if Imperial Legion was strong enough, he wouldn't stand for those insults, he would march on Aldmeri Dominion. I maybe wrong and taking the Imperial side here, but the way I see, leaders of Stormcloak rebelion, too stuborn to see the big picture here. They would rather break away from Empire to keep their dignity, then wait for the right time and get back at Aldmeri Dominion for insulting men like that. I am sorry if my opinion isn't popular. Perhaps I see it in a wrong way, and there was no need for White Gold Concordum, that after Imperial City was taken back, the Legion was still stong enough to defeat the elves. But it seems unlikely to me, the way I see it, instead of playing blame games, Ulfric should have talked to the Imperial authorities about how better to get back at Aldmeri Dominion. That rebelion, whouldn't bring reinstating Talos to the entire Empire quicker, if anything, it would hinder that cause. Then again, Nords were never good with politics. The way I see it, they need united Empire more then ever, by giving Hammerfell to Aldmeri Dominion, they probably were counting on them spliting from AD and carving a bloody swipe trough them. That probably weakened Aldmeri Dominon some, that is also the reason why Thalmor would be interested in keeping Civil War in Skyrim going on as well, they know that Redguards had weakened them, now they are trying to weaken the Empire. Thalmor also no fools, an they know that eventually the Empire will try to get back what they lost in Great War. Empire needs to be united (that includes the lands that were lost in great war) and worship of Talos needs to be reinstated, but they need to do it smartly, they already tried to go head on with that (terms of White Gold Concordum and disbandment of Blades was demanded on 30th of Frostfall, before the Great War started, Emperor refused them then) and then only led Empire to being owned by Aldmeri Dominion in Great War. If Empire ever to get back Hammerfell and reinstate the worship of Talos, they need to play it cool. It would seem that some hot headed Nords, want to ruin that and hinder the effort. Also, none of them might know that, but we do Thalmor are worst enemies then any of them think, so instead of fighting civil wars, they need to band together and show Thalmor their rightful place (near toilet, lol).
      oh I agree that a unified empire would be better, but the way things ended at the WGC they could have secretly planned with the rulers of hammerfell, and skyrim about the inevitable future war, there didn't need to be a civil war in skyrim, Hammerfell didn't need to split from the empire, but instead there was no communication with anyone, and things ended up like this. and if this was all a part of the Empire's plan then I say that makes them even worse.
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    • Nothing says they didn't make a plan............

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    • The Mede Dynasty are betrayers,and I am happy that they died off! All previous Empires had Emperors with the Dragon blood,But the Mede Dynasty did not. The Nords serve the of the dragon blood,The Medes don't have dragon blood,therefore they have no right to be emperors.

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    • Pink Slim wrote: and if this was all a part of the Empire's plan then I say that makes them even worse.


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    • Spottedstar02 wrote:
      The Mede Dynasty are betrayers,and I am happy that they died off! All previous Empires had Emperors with the Dragon blood,But the Mede Dynasty did not. The Nords serve the of the dragon blood,The Medes don't have dragon blood,therefore they have no right to be emperors.

      What?After the Amulet of Kings was destroyed, they didn't need dragon blood.It is not required anymore."Nords serve the of the Dragon Blood"What in Oblivion does that mean?The Mede's have every right.A beggar has the right to become Emperor.

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    • Spottedstar02 wrote:
      The Mede Dynasty are betrayers,and I am happy that they died off! All previous Empires had Emperors with the Dragon blood,But the Mede Dynasty did not. The Nords serve the of the dragon blood,The Medes don't have dragon blood,therefore they have no right to be emperors.


      The Medes probably stopped a second interregnum by usurping the empire.

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    • I agree that Mede Dynasty have less claim to Ruby Throne then someone with Dragon blood as in Royal Blood of Dragonborn Emperors. Also, Mede Dynasty takes roots in anything but royalty, unless Colovian Warmongers considered royalty. However, Emperor Titus Mede II, cannot be held responsible for sins of his fore fathers, who claimed Ruby Throne some 200 years earlier, as a result of interegnum strugle. In the way, that was quite like Stormcrown Interregnum, the only problem was that the winner of the Throne, was not a Dragonborn. I am not sure if destruction of Amulet of Kings truly means that there will be no more Dragonborn Emperors and if they are trully needed now that Oblivion gates are shut. I cannot even say if Martin Septim Sacrafice did closed the Oblivion Gates foreever. I just don't think that Titus Mede II should be judged by the way that his ancestors took the throne. Also, I don't think it was part of the plan to have Hammerfell split up from Empire, they just had to let Thalmor have part of Hammerfell for peace treaty. Also, I am not quite certain weather that was intended to be temporary even by Thalmor. I don't think they give the details of how exactly Hammerfell split from Empire, was there an uprising similar to Skyrim? Did Empire let Hammerfell split up? I do know that they did not let Thalmor have entire Hammerfell, only the areas that they occupied during war. Redguards didn't like that curse of events, Hammerfell split up from Empire and Redguards kicked Thalmor out of Hammerfell. Did Emprire intended it to go like that? That I cannot say. However, it doesn't seem that they want Skyrim to follow the same road Hammerfell did. Besides, I don't think Thalmor took it lightly when Hammerfell decalred independence and kicked Thalmor out of Hammerfell. They might be blaming Empire for allowing that to happen and it probably endangered the peace between Empire and Aldmeri Dominion greatly. More then likely Thalmor putting great degree of pressure on Titus Mede II, to keep Skyrim witin the Empire. I am sure it is in Thalmor's best interest to keep human provinces from worshiping Talos as long as they can. With Skyrim independant, it would be only Cyrodil and High Rock for Thalmor to control religion in. However, at the same time, Thalmor wants Empire to grow weaker. It is quite possible, that Thalmor interested in the stalemate for as long as possible between Legion and Stormcloaks. They don't want Skyrim to split up from Empire, but they also want Legion to suffer losses to weaken Imperial military. In other words Thalmor are playing pupeteers with both Empire and Stormcloaks during the rebelion. Now does Empire realize that? That is hard to say. From the way I can tell, Ulfric definetly doesn't seem to realize that by keeping rebelion going, he playing into Thalmor's hand. If I were Ulfric and General Talius, I would come up to a secret agreement to do something about Thalmor. Unfortunately that may not be possible, since Ulfric did murder High King. Weather or not it was the best thing to do, it was still a murder no matter how you look at it. Empire cannot over look that. Yes Nordic tradition state tha Jarls can challenge each other and even kill one another, but it would seem to be outdated. Ulfric didn't need to kill Toryg to prove his point, just fight him into submission to show that Toryg was weak and give everyone something to think about. Appearantly it seemed that Toryg himself wanted to have Skyrim to be independant, if Ulfric just talked to him and asked Toryg to declare independance instead of challenging him, who knows? Although it also seem that Ulfric didn't do it just to show Toryg's weakness and how Skyrim needs to be independant, more then likely he just wanted title of High King for himself. That is also open to debate, but I am talking far too much and far too long here, so I should stop for now and I meant no dissrespect to anyone here.

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    • The Last Dragonborn should be Emperor

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    • He has no true claim either.He is not related to the Septims.He is a different type of Dragonborn.

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    • As Legate Alexcandros said, Titus Mede II is a fine Emperor, he had to firm that treaty, and no leader would continue a war whit half of its army death and the other half very weakened for the war, and also he probably had heirs, he is old, so he surely had a wife, or maybe he has a brother or a nephew to take the throne, and Titus Mede I wasnt that bad,

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    • Shouldn't Miraak technically be Emperor?

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      He has no true claim either.He is not related to the Septims.He is a different type of Dragonborn.

      How is the Dragonborn in Skyrim a different Dragonborn than say, Tiber Septim or Reman Cyrodil? Neither of them had any claim to the throne other than being Dragonborn. It can also be said that the main reason they were entitled to the throne was that both had the power of the Thu'm and armies at their back to crush anyone who'd dispute their taking the Throne. Tiber Septim even started out in a lower position than Reman Cyrodil (I think Cyrodil was a member of the Nobility) even somewhat comparable to that of the Skyrim Dragonborn (as an adventurer who went into the service of Cuhlecain of Falkreath eventually). So realistically, if the Skyrim Dragonborn were determined to take the Throne (in a power vacuum especially) they could realistically do it, considering that you either end up as the left hand of High King Ulfric or a the favored legate of General Tulius and Legate Rikke (not to mention High Queen Elisif would be indebted to your efforts to secure her throne).

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    • Spottedstar02 wrote:
      The Last Dragonborn should be Emperor

      GOD NO!!! Never, I don't want my characters ruined by becoming emperor, and I wouldn't want the world ruined by being led by my characters.

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      He has no true claim either.He is not related to the Septims.He is a different type of Dragonborn.

      You don't have to be a Septim to start a Dragonborn Dynasty. Was Tiber Septim related to Ramen Cyrodil? Was Ramen related to St. Alesia? More then likely NOT! What is uniting those three founders of three Dynasties, that ruled Tamriel for three eras? The fact that they were all Dragonborns! If we assume that the other two founders were like Talos, ie a Shouting, Dragon Soul absorbing Dragonborn, we can easily assume that to start a Dragonborn Dynasty, all you need to be is a Dragonborn like them. Whould their descendants be able to shout naturally and absorb dragon souls? That part is debatable, since there is no real way to prove or disprove that. So indeed, you don't need to be related to Septim, Ramen or Alesian Dynasty to find a new Dragonborn Dynasty on Ruby Throne, you just have to be a Dragonborn! That ofcourse if Tamriel still trully needs a Dragonborn to rule them still, ever since Martin Septim turned himself into a statue of a Dragon after defeating Merunes Dagon. Who knows, maybe that statue was supposed to symbolize a memorial to all Dragonborn rulers of Tamriel as there will be no need of them anymore, perhaps it says that Dragonborn Emperors outlived their purpose. But who the heck knows what game developers were trying to show when they made Boromir to turn into huge, stone Dragon. I say quite killing Boromir already, he already died in too many movies, lol That was a bit of topic, but I am sure all of you know that I began by talking about Martin Septim, who just happened to be voiced by the same guy that plays Boromir and Eddard Stark, speaking of which, at least in Lord of the Rings he died with a sword in his hand like true Nord, in Games of Thrones, they didn't let him. I guess Boromir will be going to Sovenguarde after Lord of the Rings, but enough with my jokes already, lol

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Man of steak wrote:
      He has no true claim either.He is not related to the Septims.He is a different type of Dragonborn.
      You don't have to be a Septim to start a Dragonborn Dynasty. Was Tiber Septim related to Ramen Cyrodil? Was Ramen related to St. Alesia? More then likely NOT! What is uniting those three founders of three Dynasties, that ruled Tamriel for three eras? The fact that they were all Dragonborns! If we assume that the other two founders were like Talos, ie a Shouting, Dragon Soul absorbing Dragonborn, we can easily assume that to start a Dragonborn Dynasty, all you need to be is a Dragonborn like them. Whould their descendants be able to shout naturally and absorb dragon souls? That part is debatable, since there is no real way to prove or disprove that. So indeed, you don't need to be related to Septim, Ramen or Alesian Dynasty to find a new Dragonborn Dynasty on Ruby Throne, you just have to be a Dragonborn! That ofcourse if Tamriel still trully needs a Dragonborn to rule them still, ever since Martin Septim turned himself into a statue of a Dragon after defeating Merunes Dagon. Who knows, maybe that statue was supposed to symbolize a memorial to all Dragonborn rulers of Tamriel as there will be no need of them anymore, perhaps it says that Dragonborn Emperors outlived their purpose. But who the heck knows what game developers were trying to show when they made Boromir to turn into huge, stone Dragon. I say quite killing Boromir already, he already died in too many movies, lol That was a bit of topic, but I am sure all of you know that I began by talking about Martin Septim, who just happened to be voiced by the same guy that plays Boromir and Eddard Stark, speaking of which, at least in Lord of the Rings he died with a sword in his hand like true Nord, in Games of Thrones, they didn't let him. I guess Boromir will be going to Sovenguarde after Lord of the Rings, but enough with my jokes already, lol

      Don't forget that he was also Alec Trevelyan(006) in Goldeneye, and he died by falling off the antenna of a giant satelite dish, then being crushed by falling debri after surviving the fall.

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    • Who's to say the Dovahkiin isn't related to Tiber Septim anyways

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    • Indeed, Pjic Thief mentioned that before, I really cannot remember that character clear enough to know that he was that guy as well. It been so long since I watched Goldeneye. Although in Golden Eye he was a bad guy I belive, so it's alright. We like him when he plays good guys, oh and 006 definetly won't got to Sovengarde, lol. I am not sure they would even accept him in Oblivion realms.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Who's to say the Dovahkiin isn't related to Tiber Septim anyways

      Lore, That's who.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Who's to say the Dovahkiin isn't related to Tiber Septim anyways
      Lore, That's who.

      Were does it say that in the lore?

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Who's to say the Dovahkiin isn't related to Tiber Septim anyways
      Lore, That's who.
      Were does it say that in the lore?

      It says that martin Septim was the last heir to Tiber Septim himself, the last heir to carry the dragonblood; too many people assume that just because he's dragonborn he's related to the Septims, why don't they go beyond that, what if he's related to Reman? see, now that's a better question, and one that doesn't have legends and prophecies written about it.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Who's to say the Dovahkiin isn't related to Tiber Septim anyways
      Lore, That's who.
      Were does it say that in the lore?
      It says that martin Septim was the last heir to Tiber Septim himself, the last heir to carry the dragonblood; too many people assume that just because he's dragonborn he's related to the Septims, why don't they go beyond that, what if he's related to Reman? see, now that's a better question, and one that doesn't have legends and prophecies written about it.

      Or maybe Wulfarth!

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    • MassiveScrolls wrote: The Dovahkiin is generally considered a Nord, but what if somebody chose to make him a Khajiit? The descendant emperor would have to be a khajiit.

      No, the Emperor wouldn't. On Nirn, offspring, for the most part, are the race of the mother. There is nothing in TES lore that says a Khajiit or Argonian can't mate with the other races.

      If the player Dragonborn is female, then the story would be that she had a son who fathered the heir.

      Either way, the new Emperor could be any race, just like the Dragonborn in Skyrim

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    • I meant the Dragonborn has no claim because nobody has a "true" claim anymore.Also, he is the last Dragonborn, meaning both Dragonblood emporers and "true" Dragonborn will never again occur.The dragonblood is dead once the Last Dragonborn dies.

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    • Dragonblood passes on through offspring.

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    • There are two different kinds of Dragonborn.The Last Dragonborns blood does not pass down.

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    • Were does it say there blood doesn't pass down?

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    • Because the Dovahkiin has the soul and completely different blood?

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    • I haven't seen anything that says the Dovahkiin can't pass down dragonblood. Where did you get that information?

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    • The last dragonborn has dragon blood... His/Her son/daughter will have dragonblood too... Just ask Ole' Paarthurnax

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    • There are two different kinds.Dragonborn (Can't pass down, absorb dragon souls.) and dragonblood (Can pass down, can't absorb souls.)Tiber Septim was a mixture of both.

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    • Nait Nelthar wrote:
      The last dragonborn has dragon blood... His/Her son/daughter will have dragonblood too... Just ask Ole' Paarthurnax

      Yes, but a different kind of Dragonblood.

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    • Listen to Greybreards, or someone does state that most of the time, there is only one Dragonborn per era. By Dragonborn it means with Dragon soul. The only reason Mirak met with Last Dragonborn, was because Miraak was an efing coward and hid in the deadric realm since the first era. Technically, Last Dragonborn's offsprings whould be considered as Dragonborns too, but not in the same sense. His/her bloodline would pass down, but not the soul. Just like with Dragonborn Imperial Dynasties. The founders of three Dynasties had Dragon souls and were true Dragonborns, their ofsprings were Dragonborns too, sinc they could wear amulet of kings, but not in the same way their fore fathers were. I know there is no real way to prove or disprove weather Emperor Pelagius III the Mad could shout like Tiber Septim, but chances are he couldn't, but he still was a Dragonborn by blood. Actually, not even Tiber Septim could shout later in life, not since an assassin, or him himself tried killing him by sliting his troat. Ever since Jarl of Falkreath was killed, Tiber Septim could not shout, but that didn't stop him from becoming an Emperor and conquering all of Tamriel and making Nafalar/Nafaliargus his mercenary. Oh and if you listen to Greybeards our Dragonborn isn't the Last Last, they say that the main character is the last one to reveal themselves, but they do not know if there would be more. However, I do believe that if not Greybeards, it states somewhere on wiki that it almost imposible to have two true Dragonborns, with soul and blood of Dragon to meet. Usually it's one Dovakin per era. But Dovahsebrom strikes me as a skeptic and I am not sure anything can convince him/her otherwise, but we will try.

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    • Alessia did not have the soul, only the blood.

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    • Well, that cannot be proven exactly, since it was too far in the past. However, if we take in mind the fact that both Ramen and Talos had Dragon soul, and they both were founders of separate Dragonborn Dynasties, we could assume that perhaps Alessia was just like them. It seems that they like to follow similar scenarios with Dynasties, at least Dragonborn. Remember how Ramen Dynasty ended? All of the heirs were killed off by Morag Tang and then the last Ramen Emperor died or was killed as well, thus began Akaviri Potentate. How did Septim Dynasty was ended? All heirs were killed and then granpa Uriel was by Mystic Dawn. The only thing they didn't take in mind, that he took precaution and had an iligitimate son. In anycase, the fact weather or not Alessia was Dovahkin, is still opened for discusion. It hard to prove or disprove that claim, just as it hard to prove or disprove weather or not offsprings of Dovahkin could shout.

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      • Mythic Dawn.Also, on the Alessia page it says 

      "Akatosh came down and blessed her with the Dragonblood."

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    • Okey, so maybe the first Imperial Dynasty wasn't found by Dovahkin. However, if you look at it deeper. The Aylieds were all powerful, they worship devines and they had help from deadra. Do you think having Drgonblood would be enough to turn things around for men or Cyrodil? Yes, they closed the oblivion gates with Dragonblood, but the way I understand it, they defeated Aylieds in a short time after that. Might that mean that Alessia had an unsaid shouting ability? Although then again, not all the Aylieds were against men, I guess some joined their cause and afterwards, in the begining they were equal part of the society of Alessian Empire.

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    • Actually, Ayleids hated the Divines.That is why they were called "wild elves".They got their Empire from Daedra worship.And Alessia was given the blood on her deathbed.Pelinial Whitestrake, the Demi-God was the secret to succes.

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    • what the hell does Alessia possibly not being dovahkiin, have to do with The Last Dragonborn being unable to have dragonblood/soul children?

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    • We are trying to compare how founders of Dragonborn Dynasties were Dovahkin, but their children were Dragonblood. However, that theory doesn't seem to add up in case of Alessia, who acording to some only had Dragonblood, not soul. Even though, before we knew and hated Miraak, she was considered the first Dragonborn. Oh and don't some say that Pelinial Whitestrake was also incarnation of Wulfhearth of Atmora aka Yismir the Dragon of the North and Avatar of Shor and who taugh Talos how to shout in one night? Anyways, by looking at the cosistancy of founders of each Dynasty and how most of them were Dovahkin, if not most of them. And how their descendents had Dragonblood, but not the soul. We can use the same principle to say that children of our Dovahkin, may have Dragonblood in them, but they would not have his Dragon soul. Did that make sence?

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    • And their children would still have Dragonblood.Soul or not, the blood should go down.However, I think that the blood can be passed down only by others who don't have the soul.I.E Talos was both, therefore passed down blood.Reman was both, therefore passed down both.They got the Blood from either distant relation or blessing, and the soul is always a blessing.

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      Actually, Ayleids hated the Divines.That is why they were called "wild elves".They got their Empire from Daedra worship.And Alessia was given the blood on her deathbed.Pelinial Whitestrake, the Demi-God was the secret to succes.

      I am a follower of Shody Cast's Elder Scrolls Lore series. The last episode they had was about Aylieds. I am sure that they mentioned that those cunning Aylids, tried to harness both the powers of Autherius and the Void. They worshiped elven gods and deadric princes. Their civilization might not have been as sophisticated as Dwemer, but it was still far superior to most other civilization. The first Empire of men was build on what Aylieds left, don't forget that they also build White Gold Tower, that was actually meant to intake the energy from Autherius, as it was giving away the energy from Nirn. Would someone 'wild' be able to achieve such thing? Besides, they became "wild elves" after they were defeated by men. Those who remained, retreated into the wielderness, away from everyone else. That is why they called them wild elves ever since, after men took over, they were not the same advence elves as they once were, since they didn't had a chance to live in the cities they have built anymore. Even those Aylieds that were included into society of men for a while, later became exciled as well. It would seem that their fate was similar to Falmer, except that they do not harbor hatred to everyone else like Falmer, since they were not blinded and betrayed by those they though allies.

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    • When I said Divines I meant Human gods.I was a bit blunt with my statement.

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    • Well ofcourse! I should have been more clear to what I meant as Divines sorry about that. Ofcourse, no selfrespecting mer would worship human gods, I mean they got such wonderful gods to look up to, such as Auriel, Magnus, Trinimac etc. Who cares if Auriel is Akatosh in human pantheon. Those mer probably would say that their Auriel is so much more superior to Akatosh. I am not even talking about those deadra worshiping Dunmer who think that they so much better then anyone else, that they are above worshiping mer gods, instead they will worship deadric princes Azura, Mephala and Boethia. Out of those three, in my opinion Azura is the only one worth worshiping to, since she's one of the few deadric princes that is not entirely evil. Mephala is a backstaber, Boethia is a ploter. However, to Dunmer they are different. Then ofcourse, they were also cursed by Azura for accepting false Tribunal as true Tribunal. So yes, by worshiping devines, I meant that the Aylieds worshiped elven gods. I don't know about people in Cyrodil, but Nords had their own gods to worship to and originaly they were Alduin the Dragon, Kyne the Hawk, Shor the Serpent, Tsun the Whale, Stunh the Bear, Yismir the Fox, Mara the Wolf, Jinahl the Owl, and Dibella the Moth. I believe that devines of the Empire, was in a way collection of divines worshiped in every part of it, included under different names. But anyways, this is not the topic of devines and I am sure I made myself clear by now that in no way I meant to say that Aylieds worshiped the same devines that men did, as well as worshiping deadra. I hope we got that clear, I appologise for not specifying it earlier.

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    • None. I doubt the Imperials want to live under another corrupt empire. They hardly care about the people of the Empire: how to strengthen or encourage the army. Eventually they will fall, the Empire already lost territories to the Aldmeri Dominion in the Great War and will cause the scarcity of gold to be used in the coins. Prices will increase leading to inflation. So Imperials and Cyrodiilians have to stop using coins and will turn to barter system, they have to pay taxes with foods.

      Political instability will come, just like the Roman Empire, After Emperor Trajan's death in 117 AD, Hadrian took his place. He realized that Rome was no longer in the position to continue their expansion.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      The only reason Mirak met with Last Dragonborn, was because Miraak was an efing coward and hid in the deadric realm since the first era.

      No, Miraak went to Apocrypha to become more powerful. The reason why he didn't leave until 4E 201 is because Herma Mora wasn't letting him leave, he was basically a captive forced to being the champion of Herma Mora for eternity. The reason the events in the Dragonborn DLC happens is because he finaly gained the power to manipulate the inhabitants and return to Nirn.

      Also Miraak dates before the first era.

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    • Miraak was not champion.More like servant.If he was Champion, then how come the Protaganist can become the Champion?

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      Miraak was not champion.More like servant.If he was Champion, then how come the Protaganist can become the Champion?

      True, but I find it hard to believe that Hermaeus Mora wouldn't make Miraak his champion. Maybe you have to be within the mortal plane to be a champion.

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    • Miraak might have been Champion for some time, but not anymore.

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    • I think Bethesda is going to pull something like, "Dragonborn went to Apochrypha to kill Miraak, never returned." It seems like them to do that.

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    • We all know what Hemeus Mora doing to his champions who outlived their usefulness. Poor Septimus was just turned to ash. If you journey to Apocryptha after you already a Chmpion of Hemeus Mora and defeat Miraak. Right before Hemeus Mora kills Miraak he says that he got a new Dragonborn Champion now. Or something along those lines. And also we know that Last Dragonborn did make it out of Apacryptha, but who knows, Old Herma Mora might as well get him/her later in life, when he or she will outlive their usefulness.

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    • Actually, Hermaeus Mora is technically another nemesis to the Dovahkiin, as stated by the wiki.

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    • ......No.The wiki can't always be trusted.Why would Herma tell you the words of power?He isn't a nemesis, more a like mutual friend.

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    • Wouldn't mutual friend be someone more like Delphine is to Malborn?

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    • More like Malborn to Delphine.Malborn gives stuff bout Thalmor, he gets revenge.Dragonborn gives knowledge, he gets words of power.

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    • But Hermaeus Mora is a Daedra, and like all Daedra, he cannot be fully trusted. Albeit I am a devotee to many Daedra, and Hermaeus Mora is one of my favorite, you cannot trust him fully.

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    • Apparently you can.If you can't trust him, why does he give you the words of power every time?Even so, you can't trust Aedra fully either.

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    • I never said you can fully trust a Divine. And he exchanges words of power for knowledge, as well as the life/soul of a Skaal shaman.

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    • The life/soul was the knowledge.

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      Actually, Hermaeus Mora is technically another nemesis to the Dovahkiin, as stated by the wiki.

      To the Dovahkiin yes, but to Herma-Mora you are nothing but a tool to be used how he sees fit, so yeah, you might hate him, and even plot to abandon him, but like Miraak, you are still his Champion, whether you like it or not.

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    • My point being, you trade the life of a Skaal shaman for the power of the Thu'um.

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    • In order to kill a person who is trying to enslave the world.A good deal.

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    • He unwittingly tricks you into killing an innocent, one that aids you, no less. Although I get that you had to do it to save the world, it doesn't make him a "friend" of any kind, maybe besides a malevolent one.

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    • Tricks you?How?And Storn says himself that his sacrifice is for the better good.

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    • You aren't aware that he is going to kill Storn, and even if it does benefit the world for the better, it doesn't make him a good guy.

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    • He never said he wouldn't kill Storn.The knowledge of the Skaal lies within their soul.Storn had to die.It doesn't make him a bad guy either.Daedra aren't evil.

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    • Daedra aren't good either, and I never called him a bad guy. And I do get what you're saying. I'm just saying he's not a good guy, that's for sure.

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    • Technically, in his eyes and other Daedra's eyes, he is good.Depends on race.Because of how morally high above you he is.

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    • When you put it that way.... I suppose you're right.

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    • For all we know Herma Mora secretly let Miraak defy him so that he could use him as leverage on Storn to gain the hidden knowledge of the Skaal.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      For all we know Herma Mora secretly let Miraak defy him so that he could use him as leverage on Storn to gain the hidden knowledge of the Skaal.


      And this is relevant to who's going to be the next Emperor?

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    • DarthOrc wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      For all we know Herma Mora secretly let Miraak defy him so that he could use him as leverage on Storn to gain the hidden knowledge of the Skaal.

      And this is relevant to who's going to be the next Emperor?

      The conversation changed a bit buddy

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      DarthOrc wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      For all we know Herma Mora secretly let Miraak defy him so that he could use him as leverage on Storn to gain the hidden knowledge of the Skaal.

      And this is relevant to who's going to be the next Emperor?
      The conversation changed a bit buddy


      Maybe its time go start a new thread on the topic at hand and let this thread get back to its original topic.

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    • DarthOrc wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      DarthOrc wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      For all we know Herma Mora secretly let Miraak defy him so that he could use him as leverage on Storn to gain the hidden knowledge of the Skaal.

      And this is relevant to who's going to be the next Emperor?
      The conversation changed a bit buddy

      Maybe its time go start a new thread on the topic at hand and let this thread get back to its original topic.


      probably a good idea but I think this topic might end soon anyways

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    • The off-topic conversation of Miraak started with me saying he should technically be in line for the Emperor, by the way.

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    • What about The Last Dragonborn. I just had a thought. It could be possible that Martim had a illegitimate son. And that illegitimate child could very well be a ancestor, if not a grandfather, to The Last Dragonborn. And as The Last Dragonborn is really what his name suggests and if we take some level of notice in my recent theory, then in conclusion, well, put it this way:


      THE SEPTIM BLOODLINE HAS NOT ENDED!

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    • no.

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    • Excuse me, but what makes you disagree?

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    • Martin was A. A priest.2. You would think he would tell his greatest friend (The Hero of Kvatch.) of such a child.3.All evidence points away from that.4.Anyone could claim to be Martin Septims Heir.

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    • Well, The Last Dragonborn could be a descendant of Martin, no other family could have been Dragonborn other than The Septims themselves. If what you said is indeed true, then our character would just be like The Hero Of Kvatch, or the Eternal Champion, no special attributes, no powerful abilities, nothing, he would just be like any other character, normal.

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    • No.Martin had the Dragonblood passed on by his predeccesors.Dovahkiin is a blessing from Akatosh himself.Tiber Septim was not related to Reman III, he became Dovahkiin.

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    • Tiber Septim (a.k.a Talos) did have the power of the Thu'um, as he was summoned by the Greybeards who named him Dovahkiin, as stated on the tablets on High Hrothgar.

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    • Maybe one of the septims had a bastard son?

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    • Probably not beyond them.

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    • Talos did had a natural ability to shout, if he was not taugh it by Yismir himself (Spirit of Wulfhearth of Atmora). However, when he became Emperor, he could shout anymore. His throat got too damaged, either by his own hand or at the hand of assassin. And no, Talos was not related to Ramen. I cannot remember for sure if Ramen Cyrodil was summoned by Greybeards, but he was definetly proclaimed by Dragonguard as Dragonborn. They said that their purpose to serve the Dragonborn, who they been serching for. Judging from what Delphine says to our Dragonborn after she tells him who the Blades are, it is evident that Ramen was trully a Dragonborn, like Talos and like our own Dragonborn. Now were the Imperial Dragonborns of two last Dynasties related to Alesia? No, was Alesia a true Dragonborn like other two founders of Dynasties? That sort of still debatable. I mean, until we knew of Miraak, she was considered the first Dragonborn. Can it mean that she was Dragonborn in general, or was she the Dragonborn? I believe, since there is such a consistency of the Dragonborns founding other two Dynasties, there is a big possibility that whe would be one too. However, some people here would dissagree with me.

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    • Reman was proclaimed Dovahkiin by the Akaviri after he shouted at them in the Pale Pass.

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    • I just read that part in the article, it is not easy to find information on Remen on wiki. Indeed that proves that Remen was indeed Dovahkin. Now we can certainly say that two out of three founders of Dragonborn Dynasties, were in fact Dovahkin. Does Alessia breaks such consistancy, or was she in fact the Dovahkin like other two?

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    • It's not known, but it states that she was blessed with the Dragon Blood, but never says soul.However, it is still up to spectulation until Bethesda gives an answer.

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    • So many things need to be answered by Bethesda!

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    • The Dovahkin in Skyrim has both the Blood and Soul of a Dragon as did Tiber Septim before him. Now did the rest of Septim dynasty have the Blood of a Dragon, well the Blades thought they did. So under the assumption that blood is inherited, yes all the Septim had the Blood of a Dragon in them. 

      Now did they have the Soul of a Dragon? To this I propose That in Skyrim when you first start out, the players character only has the Blood not the soul. In this theory, Those with the Blood of a Dragon only gain the Soul of a Dragon after first absorbing (killing your first Dragon) it. 

      Dragon Souls are immortal; so rather then when you devour the soul after it apparent Death, you are absorbing it's soul not destroying it. In earlier post a lot of people where saying the Dragonborn Destroys the Soul. So I wanted to clerify in this theory it's absorbing it not destroying it.

      Next, is the Last Dragonborn related to the Septim dynasty? Possibly, yes Martin Septim was the last Septim but blood lines can out live the names associated with them. I'm sure over the centuries the Septims produced a number of bastards that not even they know about. Now it's also possible this is a new gift of Dragon's blood from Akatosh to a different family, but I don't see that as the only possibility. As for all the onther races the Dragonborn can be in Skyrim, out breeding from the Septim bastards could explain that or even why they were not reconized as Septims in the first place as a result of mix race relationships. 

      Now can the Dragonborn by Emperor? If they want to be, I see no reason why the Dragonborn can not take the throne after the next great war with the Thalmor

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    • If the Dragonborn is a descendant of Martin, there was no need to break the amulet.

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    • ^ So wrong.

      Martin had to bring the amulet TO become the aspect of akatosh, He couldn't simply lit the dragonfires because Dagon was THERE! He had to use it.

      How many people have only played skyrim?

      Too many.

      I played four of dah games!

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    • I played most of Oblivions main story.I'm not wrong.If he had a heir, there was no need to break the amulet.And why not use a damn banish spell on him?

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    • Because Daedric Lords are too powerful to be killed in battle. They could resist a sword to the throat, a banish spell would not do much. Plus, it could be possible that Martin DID sire a child, it could also be possible, that he did so withhout knowing.

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    • Greenerseyes wrote:
      The Dovahkin in Skyrim has both the Blood and Soul of a Dragon as did Tiber Septim before him. Now did the rest of Septim dynasty have the Blood of a Dragon, well the Blades thought they did. So under the assumption that blood is inherited, yes all the Septim had the Blood of a Dragon in them. 

      Now did they have the Soul of a Dragon? To this I propose That in Skyrim when you first start out, the players character only has the Blood not the soul. In this theory, Those with the Blood of a Dragon only gain the Soul of a Dragon after first absorbing (killing your first Dragon) it. 

      Dragon Souls are immortal; so rather then when you devour the soul after it apparent Death, you are absorbing it's soul not destroying it. In earlier post a lot of people where saying the Dragonborn Destroys the Soul. So I wanted to clerify in this theory it's absorbing it not destroying it.

      Next, is the Last Dragonborn related to the Septim dynasty? Possibly, yes Martin Septim was the last Septim but blood lines can out live the names associated with them. I'm sure over the centuries the Septims produced a number of bastards that not even they know about. Now it's also possible this is a new gift of Dragon's blood from Akatosh to a different family, but I don't see that as the only possibility. As for all the onther races the Dragonborn can be in Skyrim, out breeding from the Septim bastards could explain that or even why they were not reconized as Septims in the first place as a result of mix race relationships. 

      Now can the Dragonborn by Emperor? If they want to be, I see no reason why the Dragonborn can not take the throne after the next great war with the Thalmor


      Just what I was thinking.

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    • Wouldn't Miraak technically be the Emperor, seeing as he is older than the Last Dragonborn?

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      Wouldn't Miraak technically be the Emperor, seeing as he is older than the Last Dragonborn?

      In canon, he is dead now, so....................

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    • True. I meant as a given if the Last Dragonborn had not defeated him at the summit of Apocrypha, wouldn't he technically be Emperor?

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    • Well, he existed before the Amulet of Kings, I think.So maybe, maybe not.

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    • Actually, I don't think having another heir would help not to break the amulet, if you remember correctly they were going to relight the dragonfires with it, to keep Dagon from comming into Tamriel. However, by the time that they got on their way to Temple of One, Dagon already walked out of the Oblivion gate. They had no choice after that, the relighting of Dragonfires would only work if Mehrun Dagon was still inside Oblivion. Martin sort of had a last minute idea either on the way to Temple of One, or inside it. I am not even sure he knew it would work, but lucky for Tamriel, his sacrafice was not in vane and an Avatar of Akatosh had banished Mehrun Dagon back into Oblivion. I don't think having another heir would had prevented the need to break the amulet of kings at that point.

      Oh and I am not saying that Miraak should have a claim for the throne, but being dead doesn't stop someone from that claim. Remember what Falks Firebeard said, if Potema was to be resurected, she would be the only existing member of Septim line and she would have a legitimate claim to Imperial throne. Even though in cannon she is dead.

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    • The Reman Empire and Saint Alessia's Empire were the precedent to the Septim dynasty, with the Mede Empire following afterward. It's possible that the Last Dragonborn and/or Miraak could found a new dynasty.

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    • Actually, I'm pretty sure the Dragonfires work as a long lasting, continent wide banish spell.

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    • Actually, the Dragonfires are now irrelevant to Tamriel's destruction following the events of the Oblivion Crisis.

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    • I know, but if Martin lit the fires I'm pretty sure it would have banished all Daedra and oblivion gates."Oh, but how come some gates are still open?"Gameplay purposes.Missing out on Sigil Stones is a big thing.

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    • But when Mehrunes Dagon entered Mundus, the Dragonfires became null, it would've trapped Dagon and the other Daedra in Nirn.

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    • No, it banishes Daedra aswell.I called it a continent wide banish spell when I first spoke about it.

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    • People, read my last post. I already reminded you in it, that by the time Martin and Hero of Kvatch decided to come out of Imperial Palace, it was too late to relight the Dragon fires. The giant, four armed, red freak was already walking the Tamriel by then. The fires would only work if he would still be in Oblivion. So Martin had to come up with a backup plan and you tell me if it was a good or bad plan.

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    • False. The Dragonfires would close the Oblivion Gates. This does not banish the Daedra outright. They would be trapped in Mundus, only leaving at will or when killed. And we know they would not have left if Martin did not defeat Mehrunes Dagon.

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    • I read your post.Why do think I commented about Dragonfires in the first place?Why are we even talking about this shit?

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    • At least you did, but someone said that they were sure Martin did light the Dragonfires. I think it all started when someone decided that if there was another heir to the Septim Dynasty at that time, there would be no need to break the Amulet of Kings. I say, the only way they could avoided breaking that thing, is if the red freak would stay in his realm of Oblivion longer. So the way everything turned out, it wouldn't mater if granpa Uriel had another illigitimate child, or ever if Martin himself had a child. There was no other way, heir or no heir. Not that it would prove that there was an heir to the Septim line. Oh and Dragonfires wouldn't be quite considered banishing spell. Banishing spell supposed to return them all back to Oblivion, Dragonfires would just make sure they have no way back on in. People could have dealt with Daedra that would be traped on Nirn, but not Dagon. I am guessing by turning into the Avatar of Akatosh, Martin had automatically closed any remaining gates and had the power to defeat the lord of destruction. Any other deadric struglers would have been cut down by the Legion, without any way to retreat or get reinforcements, they were an easy picking.

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    • I said it was possible that the Amulet didn't have to be broken, but it was just a theory that I seen elsewhere.But it didn't start with that, someone else started the Oblivion Crisis of this thread.(See what I did there?)

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    • Hold on a moment, now that I remember, this discussion supposed to be who will be Emperor after Titus II. I get the part that some people hope to bring back Septim line, but I am preaty sure their chance had been gone, ever since Colovian Warmonger claimed the throne and was crowned Titus Mede I. So let's try to get back on topic here and close the Oblivion Gates for now. Unless you belive this is going no where and this discussion had exusted itself long time ago. Oh and to remind you, someone already brought up desintegration of Empire and turning Provinces into free Kingdoms/Republics. Any other suggestions?

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Hold on a moment, now that I remember, this discussion supposed to be who will be Emperor after Titus II. I get the part that some people hope to bring back Septim line, but I am preaty sure their chance had been gone, ever since Colovian Warmonger claimed the throne and was crowned Titus Mede I. So let's try to get back on topic here and close the Oblivion Gates for now. Unless you belive this is going no where and this discussion had exusted itself long time ago. Oh and to remind you, someone already brought up desintegration of Empire and turning Provinces into free Kingdoms/Republics. Any other suggestions?

      Yeah, here's a suggestion:

      A new Dragonblood line.

      Next best thing to the Septim line.

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      Actually, the Dragonfires are now irrelevant to Tamriel's destruction following the events of the Oblivion Crisis.

      That's no reason to not hold on to the tradition and especially not when there is someone with Dragonblood who would make a legitimate Emperor.

      Ie the Dragonborn.

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    • 80.216.220.93 wrote:
      Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      Actually, the Dragonfires are now irrelevant to Tamriel's destruction following the events of the Oblivion Crisis.
      That's no reason to not hold on to the tradition and especially not when there is someone with Dragonblood who would make a legitimate Emperor.

      Ie the Dragonborn.

      what about having an emperor who is intelligent, compassionate, courageous, but NOT The Last Dragonborn.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      80.216.220.93 wrote:
      Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      Actually, the Dragonfires are now irrelevant to Tamriel's destruction following the events of the Oblivion Crisis.
      That's no reason to not hold on to the tradition and especially not when there is someone with Dragonblood who would make a legitimate Emperor.
      Ie the Dragonborn.
      what about having an emperor who is intelligent, compassionate, courageous, but NOT The Last Dragonborn.

      IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      80.216.220.93 wrote:
      Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      Actually, the Dragonfires are now irrelevant to Tamriel's destruction following the events of the Oblivion Crisis.
      That's no reason to not hold on to the tradition and especially not when there is someone with Dragonblood who would make a legitimate Emperor.
      Ie the Dragonborn.
      what about having an emperor who is intelligent, compassionate, courageous, but NOT The Last Dragonborn.

      You know of any?


      Why do they need to be called Emperor?

      Those kinds of leaders could be Stewards, like in Gondor.

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    • 80.216.220.93 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      80.216.220.93 wrote:
      Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      Actually, the Dragonfires are now irrelevant to Tamriel's destruction following the events of the Oblivion Crisis.
      That's no reason to not hold on to the tradition and especially not when there is someone with Dragonblood who would make a legitimate Emperor.
      Ie the Dragonborn.
      what about having an emperor who is intelligent, compassionate, courageous, but NOT The Last Dragonborn.
      You know of any?


      Why do they need to be called Emperor?

      Those kinds of leaders could be Stewards, like in Gondor.

      ...

      You had to say Gondor didn't you? did you read or watch it? he was totally insane.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      80.216.220.93 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      80.216.220.93 wrote:
      Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      Actually, the Dragonfires are now irrelevant to Tamriel's destruction following the events of the Oblivion Crisis.
      That's no reason to not hold on to the tradition and especially not when there is someone with Dragonblood who would make a legitimate Emperor.
      Ie the Dragonborn.
      what about having an emperor who is intelligent, compassionate, courageous, but NOT The Last Dragonborn.
      You know of any?


      Why do they need to be called Emperor?

      Those kinds of leaders could be Stewards, like in Gondor.

      ...

      You had to say Gondor didn't you? did you read or watch it? he was totally insane.

      Well, yeah...

      Non-Dragonblood leaders still don't have to be called Emperor.

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    • Guys do anyone get the thing "Last Dragonborn" The dragonsborn children won't posses the dragonborn power so lets say the dragonborn lives up to 100 years, And lets say he is twenty now, He'd have a eighty year rule (Minus the squabbles with the civil war and second great war) His children wouldn't have the dragonblood thus ends the *Whatever* line, Plus this would break elder scrolls tradition. The emperor would be well known they'd know his first and second name because hes a emperor..

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    • EmperorJohnson wrote:
      Guys do anyone get the thing "Last Dragonborn" The dragonsborn children won't posses the dragonborn power so lets say the dragonborn lives up to 100 years, And lets say he is twenty now, He'd have a eighty year rule (Minus the squabbles with the civil war and second great war) His children wouldn't have the dragonblood thus ends the *Whatever* line, Plus this would break elder scrolls tradition. The emperor would be well known they'd know his first and second name because hes a emperor..

      All with Dragonblood aren't Dragonborn but all Dragonborn have Dragonblood.

      The children would still have their parent's blood which would be more than enough to create a new line/dynasty of at least in the general populace eyes dragonblood Emperors.

      Sure it'd be kind of dishonest but it'd be a heck of alot better and stable then the random family of colovian warlords currently in power.

      Of course they wouldn't be able to absorb dragonsouls, besides there wouldn't be a need for them to.

      Alduin's gone.

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    • Alduin will return.The world must end to begin a new one.

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      Alduin will return.The world must end to begin a new one.

      All in due time.

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    • Alduin... he is the World Eater, firstborn son of Akatosh and destroyer of worlds.He is the most ancient and powerful of all the dov, so powerful that time itself could not defeat him. Instead, one mortal, blessed by the same god Akatosh, was destined to defeat him, with the help of the old and wise Paarthurnax. 

                                                          Retrospectively, Akatosh just turned his back on Alduin.

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    • Why didn't Akatosh just go up to Alduin and say

      "Yo dude, just stop"

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    • Hence the Dragonborn.

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    • You forget, that devines hardly ever involve directly in the affairs of mortals. Usually they choose a champion to save their own kind. The fight with Degan may or may not be an instance of Devine Intervention there, as it was mostly Martin, who turned himself ito Avatar of Akatosh. Although, it could have been truly Akatosh, intervening himself for the first time...well if you don't count when Auriel and Trinimac killed the god of mortals and he shot his heart with his bow all the way to Padomaic Ocean.

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    • Still I mean why would Akatosh have put Alduin on Mundus if he didn't want him to destroy the world, literally Alduin's only job. Does Alduin get to decide when he wants to destroy everything?

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    • akatosh didn't want the world to end just yet. he needed alduin to be defeated so he could take his soul and save it for later...

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    • Yes but why was Alduin there in the first place, shouldn't Akatosh have waited till he actually wanted the world to end before sending Alduin to Mundus.

      Now that I think of it, why the heck did Alduin enslave the mortals and create a dragon cult, his only job was to crush them all. Is it possible Akatosh did want to destroy the world but then decided that he would rather punish Alduin for not doing his job.

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    • Alduin was supposed to wait for the time to destroy world. Sooner or later the world would have to end, Akatosh the only one who can decide it. His first born son Alduin was supposed to fulfil that purpose when the time came. However, in the first place, Alduin said screw all that, I will pretend that I am father and have foolish man worship me as the chief god. Then after his "worshipers" used elder scroll on him, he came back pissed. He decided, now you really made me mad, this world is getting destroyed, weather father likes it or not. So his father sent Dragonborn to deal with Alduin and put him back to his place. After that incident, Akatosh probably took Alduin home to put him in time out, until the time comes for the world to be destroyed. Then Akatosh would unleash Alduin on that world.

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    • Why would Alduin have free will to travel to mundus, I feel like Akatosh would try to keep someone like Alduin on a tight leash.

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    • Responding to the original question, yes, there is an implied successor to Titus Mede II, but only if you leave Amaund Motierre alive. After having his amulet appraised, when you tell Astrid that the amulet was specifically made for a member of the Elder Council, she makes a remark about him trying to move up in the world, or something to that effect, which implies he takes Mede's place as emperor should he be left alive. If you chose to kill Motierre (as I did), there are no further implications as to who the emperor might be.

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    • Well, High Councilor, even if Motierre was such on the elder council, can only be regent in place of Emperor, in case of said death without any heirs. However, only for as long as they cannot find a replacement...or until someone within nine provinces, assembles an army and takes ove Imperial city, crowning themselves Emperor. I mean that had happened before. For once Titus Mede II ancestor did that and Talos' friend Cuhlecaine, with Talos' help almost got the crown, but was murdered just before that. Weather it was by Talos or not, doesn't matter. Besides, High Councilors are known to be assassinated too, if they interfere with someone else's ambitions. Like High Councilor Ocato, was Assassinated by Thalmor because he was trying to show them all for who they really are. Plus, Ocato was probably the only person alive back then, who could tell the world that Talmor did not end Oblivon Crysis. Perhaps hero of Kvatch could testify too, but he's too busy being a Mad God right now.

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    • Rumors of players becoming emperor in ES:O. I don't know if it's true, but it was in an announcement on the site.

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    • ESO takes place before Skyrim... and I really hope they don't add that in.

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    • Ah, sorry for that.

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    • Heimskr wrote:
      Ah, sorry for that.

      No problem

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ESO takes place before Skyrim... and I really hope they don't add that in.

      it's already been confirmed, but the "emperor" is only incharge durring the game, they will definitely lose their crown to someone else, and it'll just be said that the crown was passed so often that it wasn't even known who any of the "emperors" were.

      at least they better.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ESO takes place before Skyrim... and I really hope they don't add that in.
      it's already been confirmed, but the "emperor" is only incharge durring the game, they will definitely lose their crown to someone else, and it'll just be said that the crown was passed so often that it wasn't even known who any of the "emperors" were.

      at least they better.

      Yah but what is the point of these alliances to even want Cyrodiil if it is some random soldier who becomes the emperor?

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ESO takes place before Skyrim... and I really hope they don't add that in.
      it's already been confirmed, but the "emperor" is only incharge durring the game, they will definitely lose their crown to someone else, and it'll just be said that the crown was passed so often that it wasn't even known who any of the "emperors" were.

      at least they better.

      Yah but what is the point of these alliances to even want Cyrodiil if it is some random soldier who becomes the emperor?

      It's not a random soldier, it's whoever has the most... something. Points? kills? Something; we'll just have to wait and see.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ESO takes place before Skyrim... and I really hope they don't add that in.
      it's already been confirmed, but the "emperor" is only incharge durring the game, they will definitely lose their crown to someone else, and it'll just be said that the crown was passed so often that it wasn't even known who any of the "emperors" were.

      at least they better.

      Yah but what is the point of these alliances to even want Cyrodiil if it is some random soldier who becomes the emperor?
      It's not a random soldier, it's whoever has the most... something. Points? kills? Something; we'll just have to wait and see.

      It still makes no sense, thats like saying Ulfric Stormcloak declared civil war to make Galmar the king of Skyrim.

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    • They have said one has to fight to keep the crown, it's probably a version of CTF.

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    • As far as I understand, all one needs to do in ESO, is to take over three keeps and hold them to become an Emperor and they said something about if you are an Emperor, you get to be the bigest kid on the block, with the bigest dungeon all to yourself. However, they also say that it gets harder to take keeps over after the first one. They also mentioned different campaign servers and that each one of them would have their own Emperor. Also, if someone else takes those three keeps, the crown will be passed.

      Oh and I am sure that if that was the case in Skyrim's civil war, it would be the Dragonborn that Ulfric would crown King of Skyrim, since Dragonborn did all the field work and made the victory possible. From what I know, if you side with Stormcloacks, eventually Ulfric will trust you more then Galmar will trust you. They even mention that Ulfric will make even a Dunmer a thanes of Eastmarch, if you play as Dunmer. However, Ganmar would still show that he doesn't trusts you completely even if Ulfric does. So, it is really hard to say if Ulfric really that prejudice to anyone who's not a Nord. However, Brunwulf Free-Winter will call an Argonian, Lizard and a Khajit, Cat; if you play as such. Talk about being two-faced. But that isn't the discusion for this topic, I appologise.

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    • Like I said before the players should never become emperor.

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    • The most likely scenario to me is that there will be a Dragonbreak and they will somehow stitch all the possible outcomes together (maybe Ulfric and Elisif, poor thing, end up married, that would be the simplest solution).  Titus Mede II may not be killed by the Dark Brotherhood, but an assassin probably will get him later.  Since we don't know what's going on in Cyrodiil while all this is happening, possibly Titus II has one or more successors, but this business with Amaund ties into a coup staged by the Elder Council and the successors are assassinated round about the same time as Titus II.  The Elder Council takes over, with or without Amaund.  He seems sort of incompetent anyway, so I think he's probably being manipulated by someone else.  An interregnum ensues, during which the second war with the Thalmor happens.  Some sort of Emperor emerges out of the ashes of the second great war and the Empire recovers lost ground by the time the next game comes around.

      I really don't think that Bethesda wants to get rid of the Empire, so I doubt they're going to let it fall completely.  I would LOVE to see our Dragonborn take the throne after the second great war and start another line of Dragonblood Emperors, but it does seem like it would be too difficult to reconcile the different character choices enough to write a stable history around that, even with a Dragonbreak.  I think the most likely scenario is that the Dragonborn will beat back the Thalmor to give the next Empire a fighting chance and to restore Talos worship, possibly die as part of some final glorious battle thing, and be subsumed into the Talos complex.

      I just hope that the next non MMO Elder Scrolls game that comes out relatively soon, because I really want to know how they're going to solve all these paradoxes.

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    • Dragon Breaks make it so Bethesda can basically get away with anything. I wouldn't doubt them putting one after Skyrim.

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    • 97.67.246.168 wrote:
      The most likely scenario to me is that there will be a Dragonbreak and they will somehow stitch all the possible outcomes together (maybe Ulfric and Elisif, poor thing, end up married, that would be the simplest solution).  Titus Mede II may not be killed by the Dark Brotherhood, but an assassin probably will get him later.  Since we don't know what's going on in Cyrodiil while all this is happening, possibly Titus II has one or more successors, but this business with Amaund ties into a coup staged by the Elder Council and the successors are assassinated round about the same time as Titus II.  The Elder Council takes over, with or without Amaund.  He seems sort of incompetent anyway, so I think he's probably being manipulated by someone else.  An interregnum ensues, during which the second war with the Thalmor happens.  Some sort of Emperor emerges out of the ashes of the second great war and the Empire recovers lost ground by the time the next game comes around.

      I really don't think that Bethesda wants to get rid of the Empire, so I doubt they're going to let it fall completely.  I would LOVE to see our Dragonborn take the throne after the second great war and start another line of Dragonblood Emperors, but it does seem like it would be too difficult to reconcile the different character choices enough to write a stable history around that, even with a Dragonbreak.  I think the most likely scenario is that the Dragonborn will beat back the Thalmor to give the next Empire a fighting chance and to restore Talos worship, possibly die as part of some final glorious battle thing, and be subsumed into the Talos complex.

      I just hope that the next non MMO Elder Scrolls game that comes out relatively soon, because I really want to know how they're going to solve all these paradoxes.

      But they already got rid of it with the death of Martin.

      The empire in Skyrim is not nor will it ever be the Empire of days past.

      That Empire is dead and buried until cuch a time as a new Dragonblood line arises.

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    • 80.216.214.210 wrote:
      97.67.246.168 wrote:
      The most likely scenario to me is that there will be a Dragonbreak and they will somehow stitch all the possible outcomes together (maybe Ulfric and Elisif, poor thing, end up married, that would be the simplest solution).  Titus Mede II may not be killed by the Dark Brotherhood, but an assassin probably will get him later.  Since we don't know what's going on in Cyrodiil while all this is happening, possibly Titus II has one or more successors, but this business with Amaund ties into a coup staged by the Elder Council and the successors are assassinated round about the same time as Titus II.  The Elder Council takes over, with or without Amaund.  He seems sort of incompetent anyway, so I think he's probably being manipulated by someone else.  An interregnum ensues, during which the second war with the Thalmor happens.  Some sort of Emperor emerges out of the ashes of the second great war and the Empire recovers lost ground by the time the next game comes around.

      I really don't think that Bethesda wants to get rid of the Empire, so I doubt they're going to let it fall completely.  I would LOVE to see our Dragonborn take the throne after the second great war and start another line of Dragonblood Emperors, but it does seem like it would be too difficult to reconcile the different character choices enough to write a stable history around that, even with a Dragonbreak.  I think the most likely scenario is that the Dragonborn will beat back the Thalmor to give the next Empire a fighting chance and to restore Talos worship, possibly die as part of some final glorious battle thing, and be subsumed into the Talos complex.

      I just hope that the next non MMO Elder Scrolls game that comes out relatively soon, because I really want to know how they're going to solve all these paradoxes.

      But they already got rid of it with the death of Martin.

      The empire in Skyrim is not nor will it ever be the Empire of days past.

      That Empire is dead and buried until cuch a time as a new Dragonblood line arises.

      Ummm... what the heck are you trying to say; there is no empire of Skyrim and there is another Dragonborn, It's called the Dovahkiin, duhh.

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    • Ysgramor Dynasty did create the very first Empire of men, they controled not only Skyrim, but parts of High Rock, a big portion of Cyrodil and much of Morrowind too. Right up until King Borgias wore the Jagged Crown for the last time. After that, that Empire dwindled much, until only Skyrim remained. 

      If I remember correct, Skyrim joined first Empire of Cyrodil, the one created by Alessia willingly. Above all, Nords respected warriors, in that case, warriors who won their freedom. It wasn't until later that Skyrim got dissilusioned with the first Empire and split. Then Akaviri Potentate took over the second Empire and Remen Empire fell apart. Skyrim staid with the third Empire though, all the way through Oblivion Crysis and the rise of Mede Dynasty. Now, in the fourth era and after White Gold Concordum, they decided it was enough.

      By the way, if you look at the list of Dynasties and Empires, first it's Ysgramor Dynasty that began in Merithic era. However, they call it the First Nordic Empire, or the First Empire of Nords. A mistake, or an inmplemention that there will be a second Empire of Nords? Oh yeah and the list is for Empires of men ofcourse.

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    • I'm not sure if this is directed towards me but I already know all of this.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      80.216.214.210 wrote:
      97.67.246.168 wrote:
      The most likely scenario to me is that there will be a Dragonbreak and they will somehow stitch all the possible outcomes together (maybe Ulfric and Elisif, poor thing, end up married, that would be the simplest solution).  Titus Mede II may not be killed by the Dark Brotherhood, but an assassin probably will get him later.  Since we don't know what's going on in Cyrodiil while all this is happening, possibly Titus II has one or more successors, but this business with Amaund ties into a coup staged by the Elder Council and the successors are assassinated round about the same time as Titus II.  The Elder Council takes over, with or without Amaund.  He seems sort of incompetent anyway, so I think he's probably being manipulated by someone else.  An interregnum ensues, during which the second war with the Thalmor happens.  Some sort of Emperor emerges out of the ashes of the second great war and the Empire recovers lost ground by the time the next game comes around.

      I really don't think that Bethesda wants to get rid of the Empire, so I doubt they're going to let it fall completely.  I would LOVE to see our Dragonborn take the throne after the second great war and start another line of Dragonblood Emperors, but it does seem like it would be too difficult to reconcile the different character choices enough to write a stable history around that, even with a Dragonbreak.  I think the most likely scenario is that the Dragonborn will beat back the Thalmor to give the next Empire a fighting chance and to restore Talos worship, possibly die as part of some final glorious battle thing, and be subsumed into the Talos complex.

      I just hope that the next non MMO Elder Scrolls game that comes out relatively soon, because I really want to know how they're going to solve all these paradoxes.

      But they already got rid of it with the death of Martin.

      The empire in Skyrim is not nor will it ever be the Empire of days past.

      That Empire is dead and buried until cuch a time as a new Dragonblood line arises.

      Ummm... what the heck are you trying to say; there is no empire of Skyrim and there is another Dragonborn, It's called the Dovahkiin, duhh.

      I'm saying that the real Empire ie the Septim Empire is gone, that the empire that exists when Skyrim takes place is not the same as the Empires of the older games, get it?

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    • 80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      80.216.214.210 wrote:
      97.67.246.168 wrote:
      The most likely scenario to me is that there will be a Dragonbreak and they will somehow stitch all the possible outcomes together (maybe Ulfric and Elisif, poor thing, end up married, that would be the simplest solution).  Titus Mede II may not be killed by the Dark Brotherhood, but an assassin probably will get him later.  Since we don't know what's going on in Cyrodiil while all this is happening, possibly Titus II has one or more successors, but this business with Amaund ties into a coup staged by the Elder Council and the successors are assassinated round about the same time as Titus II.  The Elder Council takes over, with or without Amaund.  He seems sort of incompetent anyway, so I think he's probably being manipulated by someone else.  An interregnum ensues, during which the second war with the Thalmor happens.  Some sort of Emperor emerges out of the ashes of the second great war and the Empire recovers lost ground by the time the next game comes around.

      I really don't think that Bethesda wants to get rid of the Empire, so I doubt they're going to let it fall completely.  I would LOVE to see our Dragonborn take the throne after the second great war and start another line of Dragonblood Emperors, but it does seem like it would be too difficult to reconcile the different character choices enough to write a stable history around that, even with a Dragonbreak.  I think the most likely scenario is that the Dragonborn will beat back the Thalmor to give the next Empire a fighting chance and to restore Talos worship, possibly die as part of some final glorious battle thing, and be subsumed into the Talos complex.

      I just hope that the next non MMO Elder Scrolls game that comes out relatively soon, because I really want to know how they're going to solve all these paradoxes.

      But they already got rid of it with the death of Martin.

      The empire in Skyrim is not nor will it ever be the Empire of days past.

      That Empire is dead and buried until cuch a time as a new Dragonblood line arises.

      Ummm... what the heck are you trying to say; there is no empire of Skyrim and there is another Dragonborn, It's called the Dovahkiin, duhh.
      I'm saying that the real Empire ie the Septim Empire is gone, that the empire that exists when Skyrim takes place is not the same as the Empires of the older games, get it?

      Technically your right but your also wrong. It's not just like a Dynasty dies and a new empire starts. It may be known as the Mede empire now but they still hold the de jure empire of Tamriel. This is obvious as the Medes still use the banners that the Septims had for there soldiers.


      No offense but you need to make your points alot clearer.

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    • The current empire still heavily follows the traditions and rules of the Septim Empire (Just going by what the Wikia says on the current Empire, don't punch me.), so much so that it is basically the same thing, just with a different leader who liked the Milky Way's Earth's Roman Empire. Titus Mede is maaaggicc.

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    • VAULTEER wrote:
      The current empire still heavily follows the traditions and rules of the Septim Empire (Just going by what the Wikia says on the current Empire, don't punch me.), so much so that it is basically the same thing, just with a different leader who liked the Milky Way's Earth's Roman Empire. Titus Mede is maaaggicc.

      I'm pretty sure the previous Empires didn't bend over backwards to please elves, unlike the present empire.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      Technically your right but your also wrong. It's not just like a Dynasty dies and a new empire starts. It may be known as the Mede empire now but they still hold the de jure empire of Tamriel. This is obvious as the Medes still use the banners that the Septims had for there soldiers.


      No offense but you need to make your points alot clearer.

      Well that is how it should have been, there is no point in having a Septim/Dragonblood Empire without a Dragonblood Emperor.


      Seemed crystal clear to me.

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    • 80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:

      Technically your right but your also wrong. It's not just like a Dynasty dies and a new empire starts. It may be known as the Mede empire now but they still hold the de jure empire of Tamriel. This is obvious as the Medes still use the banners that the Septims had for there soldiers.


      No offense but you need to make your points alot clearer.

      Well that is how it should have been, there is no point in having a Septim/Dragonblood Empire without a Dragonblood Emperor.


      Seemed crystal clear to me.

      That is how what should have been, are you saying that the empire of Tamriel should have died with the Septims? Because if that's the case you are sadly mistaken.


      Explanations always seem clear to the person who made them.

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    • If the Empire died, what of Cyrodiil and High Rock? What of them? We're not trying to appease the elves, we're trying to keep them from killing us all.

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      If the Empire died, what of Cyrodiil and High Rock? What of them? We're not trying to appease the elves, we're trying to keep them from killing us all.

      Exactly, if the empire died then the only power in Tamriel would be the Aldmeri Dominion, and I guess Blackmarsh.

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    • Black Marsh isn't exactly a power. More of a..... seperate community, I suppose. This leaves Tamriel open to another Akaviri invasion, this one probably succesful.

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      Black Marsh isn't exactly a power. More of a..... seperate community, I suppose. This leaves Tamriel open to another Akaviri invasion, this one probably succesful.

      I feel like a fully united Blackmarsh could be considered a power.

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    • By Sithis, sure they could. But.... eh. They don't seem intent on slaying anyone. I doubt even the hypothetical Akaviri invasion could defeat Black Marsh.

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      By Sithis, sure they could. But.... eh. They don't seem intent on slaying anyone. I doubt even the hypothetical Akaviri invasion could defeat Black Marsh.

      I don't think anything can beat Blackmarsh.

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    • Black Marsh beats everything. Take THAT, Ryain!

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    • hehehehe

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:

      Technically your right but your also wrong. It's not just like a Dynasty dies and a new empire starts. It may be known as the Mede empire now but they still hold the de jure empire of Tamriel. This is obvious as the Medes still use the banners that the Septims had for there soldiers.


      No offense but you need to make your points alot clearer.

      Well that is how it should have been, there is no point in having a Septim/Dragonblood Empire without a Dragonblood Emperor.


      Seemed crystal clear to me.

      That is how what should have been, are you saying that the empire of Tamriel should have died with the Septims? Because if that's the case you are sadly mistaken.


      Explanations always seem clear to the person who made them.

      That's exactly what I meant, with the caveat that Dovahkiin or some descendant down the line might make a new Dragonblood line.


      Yes, I guess they do.

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      If the Empire died, what of Cyrodiil and High Rock? What of them? We're not trying to appease the elves, we're trying to keep them from killing us all.

      What do you mean?

      Of course they still exist.

      Sure aren't doing a very good job on that, the elves are killing as they please and the Imperials are doing nothing to curtail it.

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    • 80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      If the Empire died, what of Cyrodiil and High Rock? What of them? We're not trying to appease the elves, we're trying to keep them from killing us all.
      What do you mean?

      Of course they still exist.

      Sure aren't doing a very good job on that, the elves are killing as they please and the Imperials are doing nothing to curtail it.

      What he is saying is that if the empire died it would send Tamriel into another Interregnum leaving all provinces to fend for themselves except the Aldmeri Dominion which only gains power from this happening.

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    • 80.216.214.210 wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      The current empire still heavily follows the traditions and rules of the Septim Empire (Just going by what the Wikia says on the current Empire, don't punch me.), so much so that it is basically the same thing, just with a different leader who liked the Milky Way's Earth's Roman Empire. Titus Mede is maaaggicc.
      I'm pretty sure the previous Empires didn't bend over backwards to please elves, unlike the present empire.

      They had no choice, they saved all of Mankind by doing what they did. A united Empire that encompasses more territiores than that of their enemy, was brought to it's knees by the enemy. If they fell, the teritories would be left to fend for themselves, or at least the majority. A few may team up, but they would have still fallen. The Empire was painted in bad light in Skyrim, a corrupt Captain wanting to get the show on the road made everyone get a sick stomach over them. Everyone judged them based on one person. You could say they are the unsung heros of the current games. I mean, even Ulfric said he was causing more harm than good when talked to in Sovngarde. Fighting the very thing that saved his homeland from an elven invasion...and inevitable defeat.

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    • VAULTEER wrote:
      80.216.214.210 wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      The current empire still heavily follows the traditions and rules of the Septim Empire (Just going by what the Wikia says on the current Empire, don't punch me.), so much so that it is basically the same thing, just with a different leader who liked the Milky Way's Earth's Roman Empire. Titus Mede is maaaggicc.
      I'm pretty sure the previous Empires didn't bend over backwards to please elves, unlike the present empire.
      They had no choice, they saved all of Mankind by doing what they did. A united Empire that encompasses more territiores than that of their enemy, was brought to it's knees by the enemy. If they fell, the teritories would be left to fend for themselves, or at least the majority. A few may team up, but they would have still fallen. The Empire was painted in bad light in Skyrim, a corrupt Captain wanting to get the show on the road made everyone get a sick stomach over them. Everyone judged them based on one person. You could say they are the unsung heros of the current games. I mean, even Ulfric said he was causing more harm than good when talked to in Sovngarde. Fighting the very thing that saved his homeland from an elven invasion...and inevitable defeat.

      They had every choice and they chosed elven bondage.

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    • Every choice?Elaborate please?

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      If the Empire died, what of Cyrodiil and High Rock? What of them? We're not trying to appease the elves, we're trying to keep them from killing us all.
      What do you mean?

      Of course they still exist.

      Sure aren't doing a very good job on that, the elves are killing as they please and the Imperials are doing nothing to curtail it.

      What he is saying is that if the empire died it would send Tamriel into another Interregnum leaving all provinces to fend for themselves except the Aldmeri Dominion which only gains power from this happening.

      But an empire did arise to challenge the AD, it's just not the old/real one sadly.

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    • 80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      If the Empire died, what of Cyrodiil and High Rock? What of them? We're not trying to appease the elves, we're trying to keep them from killing us all.
      What do you mean?

      Of course they still exist.

      Sure aren't doing a very good job on that, the elves are killing as they please and the Imperials are doing nothing to curtail it.

      What he is saying is that if the empire died it would send Tamriel into another Interregnum leaving all provinces to fend for themselves except the Aldmeri Dominion which only gains power from this happening.
      But an empire did arise to challenge the AD, it's just not the old/real one sadly.

      It's a weaker version of the old one but still the same empire. I don't see why you hate Titus Mede II so much, he was actually a pretty good emperor.

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    • Sky Above,Voice Within wrote:
      Every choice?Elaborate please?

      They could have simply ignored the AD for the time being, it's not like the AD had anything to attack with.

      They could have hunkered down and gone on the defensive.

      Could have taken out a Brotherhood contract on the Dominions generals etc...

      Sky's the limit but they chose servitude and now all of Tamriel is paying the price.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      If the Empire died, what of Cyrodiil and High Rock? What of them? We're not trying to appease the elves, we're trying to keep them from killing us all.
      What do you mean?

      Of course they still exist.

      Sure aren't doing a very good job on that, the elves are killing as they please and the Imperials are doing nothing to curtail it.

      What he is saying is that if the empire died it would send Tamriel into another Interregnum leaving all provinces to fend for themselves except the Aldmeri Dominion which only gains power from this happening.
      But an empire did arise to challenge the AD, it's just not the old/real one sadly.
      It's a weaker version of the old one but still the same empire. I don't see why you hate Titus Mede II so much, he was actually a pretty good emperor.

      So it has a Dragonblood Emperor?

      The Mede's are a family of Colovian warlords whose claim to power was threathening to torch the Capital until the Council surrended the throne to them.

      My beef/hate with him is that he is an illegitimate ruler.

      If he called himself steward or custodian I'd have no proble with him in fact.

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    • It's only weaker because of Blackmarsh and Elswyr leaving. They didn't put forth as many soldiers as the other teritories, but did provide superb economic help.

      The Empire is still what it was designed to do - bring together a vast continent of different peoples with different ideals. It may not have the noble Emperors of Old, but remember that a lot of them were, indeed mad themselves. TES Emperors have never been perfect (Except in old wives' tales regarding Tiber Septim, but he did commit some atrocities.) and they never will be. At least Titus isn't Pelagius the Mad.

      He did what he had to do to preserve the Empire, and along with it the freedom of all Men, who Mer believe to have stolen their godhood, as they believe only they were descendants of Lorkhan, while they were the Aedra. In reality all are descendants of Aedra.

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    • 80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      80.216.214.210 wrote:
      Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      If the Empire died, what of Cyrodiil and High Rock? What of them? We're not trying to appease the elves, we're trying to keep them from killing us all.
      What do you mean?

      Of course they still exist.

      Sure aren't doing a very good job on that, the elves are killing as they please and the Imperials are doing nothing to curtail it.

      What he is saying is that if the empire died it would send Tamriel into another Interregnum leaving all provinces to fend for themselves except the Aldmeri Dominion which only gains power from this happening.
      But an empire did arise to challenge the AD, it's just not the old/real one sadly.
      It's a weaker version of the old one but still the same empire. I don't see why you hate Titus Mede II so much, he was actually a pretty good emperor.
      So it has a Dragonblood Emperor?

      The Mede's are a family of Colovian warlords whose claim to power was threathening to torch the Capital until the Council surrended the throne to them.

      My beef/hate with him is that he is an illegitimate ruler.

      If he called himself steward or custodian I'd have no proble with him in fact.

      Illegitimate ruler or second interregnum, your call. No ruler would usurp a throne just to name themselves steward or regent, had the Medes done so none of the provinces would take him seriously and probably split apart.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      Illegitimate ruler or second interregnum, your call. No ruler would usurp a throne just to name themselves steward or regent, had the Medes done so none of the provinces would take him seriously and probably split apart.

      True enough.

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    • VAULTEER wrote:
      It's only weaker because of Blackmarsh and Elswyr leaving. They didn't put forth as many soldiers as the other teritories, but did provide superb economic help.

      The Empire is still what it was designed to do - bring together a vast continent of different peoples with different ideals. It may not have the noble Emperors of Old, but remember that a lot of them were, indeed mad themselves. TES Emperors have never been perfect (Except in old wives' tales regarding Tiber Septim, but he did commit