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  • I hated Miraak.  The entire time I saw him or heard him always pissed me off.  As he is this super powerful Dragonborn like me, but he underestimates me at every damn turn.  Making him seem like nothing more then a bully.

    If I was called by The Divines to hunt and kill Alduin.  Why does he act like I'm nothing, if yet he knows that I was called by the Gods themselves to slay a powerful beast?

    His he truely arrogant?  Or is he scared of me?

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    • A bit of both along with a small amount of respect. 

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    • Because he is Miraak, and Miraak is LEGION.

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    • GildaTheGriffin wrote:
      I hated Miraak.  The entire time I saw him or heard him always pissed me off.  As he is this super powerful Dragonborn like me, but he underestimates me at every damn turn.  Making him seem like nothing more then a bully.

      If I was called by The Divines to hunt and kill Alduin.  Why does he act like I'm nothing, if yet he knows that I was called by the Gods themselves to slay a powerful beast?

      His he truely arrogant?  Or is he scared of me?

      He is Arrogant. not until the actual battle is he a bit scared.

      Though to be honest, he could have easily killed Alduin.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      GildaTheGriffin wrote:
      I hated Miraak.  The entire time I saw him or heard him always pissed me off.  As he is this super powerful Dragonborn like me, but he underestimates me at every damn turn.  Making him seem like nothing more then a bully.

      If I was called by The Divines to hunt and kill Alduin.  Why does he act like I'm nothing, if yet he knows that I was called by the Gods themselves to slay a powerful beast?

      His he truely arrogant?  Or is he scared of me?

      He is Arrogant. not until the actual battle is he a bit scared.

      Though to be honest, he could have easily killed Alduin.

      I have to disagree with you on that. In order to kill Alduin, you need the Dragonrend shout. And clearly Miraak doesn't have that. So no, Miraak could not have killed Alduin. 

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    • 24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      GildaTheGriffin wrote:
      I hated Miraak.  The entire time I saw him or heard him always pissed me off.  As he is this super powerful Dragonborn like me, but he underestimates me at every damn turn.  Making him seem like nothing more then a bully.

      If I was called by The Divines to hunt and kill Alduin.  Why does he act like I'm nothing, if yet he knows that I was called by the Gods themselves to slay a powerful beast?

      His he truely arrogant?  Or is he scared of me?

      He is Arrogant. not until the actual battle is he a bit scared.

      Though to be honest, he could have easily killed Alduin.

      I have to disagree with you on that. In order to kill Alduin, you need the Dragonrend shout. And clearly Miraak doesn't have that. So no, Miraak could not have killed Alduin. 

      What makes you think he doesn't?

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    • 24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      GildaTheGriffin wrote:
      I hated Miraak.  The entire time I saw him or heard him always pissed me off.  As he is this super powerful Dragonborn like me, but he underestimates me at every damn turn.  Making him seem like nothing more then a bully.

      If I was called by The Divines to hunt and kill Alduin.  Why does he act like I'm nothing, if yet he knows that I was called by the Gods themselves to slay a powerful beast?

      His he truely arrogant?  Or is he scared of me?

      He is Arrogant. not until the actual battle is he a bit scared.

      Though to be honest, he could have easily killed Alduin.

      I have to disagree with you on that. In order to kill Alduin, you need the Dragonrend shout. And clearly Miraak doesn't have that. So no, Miraak could not have killed Alduin. 

      I defeated him the first time without using it, the second time I used it the first time, just so the heroes could stop standing there, and I beat him there too.

      Magic attacks are really helpful against dragons, and Miraak is an extremely powerful magic wielder.

      plus, he was asked by the heroes of old to help them defeat Alduin, if he chose to fight alduin they would have taught Dragonrend to him.

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    • Pickleseller wrote:
      24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      GildaTheGriffin wrote:
      I hated Miraak.  The entire time I saw him or heard him always pissed me off.  As he is this super powerful Dragonborn like me, but he underestimates me at every damn turn.  Making him seem like nothing more then a bully.

      If I was called by The Divines to hunt and kill Alduin.  Why does he act like I'm nothing, if yet he knows that I was called by the Gods themselves to slay a powerful beast?

      His he truely arrogant?  Or is he scared of me?

      He is Arrogant. not until the actual battle is he a bit scared.

      Though to be honest, he could have easily killed Alduin.

      I have to disagree with you on that. In order to kill Alduin, you need the Dragonrend shout. And clearly Miraak doesn't have that. So no, Miraak could not have killed Alduin. 
      What makes you think he doesn't?

      Hakon and the others were the only ones who knew it in that time. By then, Miraak was in Apocrypha. They only used it once and that was when they were fighting Alduin and now that they died, there is no way to learn it besides using an Elder Scroll which is how the Dragonborn learned it. Miraak was in Apocrypha so he didn't have an Elder Scroll.

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    • 24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pickleseller wrote:
      24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      GildaTheGriffin wrote:
      I hated Miraak.  The entire time I saw him or heard him always pissed me off.  As he is this super powerful Dragonborn like me, but he underestimates me at every damn turn.  Making him seem like nothing more then a bully.

      If I was called by The Divines to hunt and kill Alduin.  Why does he act like I'm nothing, if yet he knows that I was called by the Gods themselves to slay a powerful beast?

      His he truely arrogant?  Or is he scared of me?

      He is Arrogant. not until the actual battle is he a bit scared.

      Though to be honest, he could have easily killed Alduin.

      I have to disagree with you on that. In order to kill Alduin, you need the Dragonrend shout. And clearly Miraak doesn't have that. So no, Miraak could not have killed Alduin. 
      What makes you think he doesn't?
      Hakon and the others were the only ones who knew it in that time. By then, Miraak was in Apocrypha. They only used it once and that was when they were fighting Alduin and now that they died, there is no way to learn it besides using an Elder Scroll which is how the Dragonborn learned it. Miraak was in Apocrypha so he didn't have an Elder Scroll.

      He's in the realm of all knowledge. He doesn't need an Elder Scroll.

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    • Pickleseller wrote:
      24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pickleseller wrote:
      24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      GildaTheGriffin wrote:
      I hated Miraak.  The entire time I saw him or heard him always pissed me off.  As he is this super powerful Dragonborn like me, but he underestimates me at every damn turn.  Making him seem like nothing more then a bully.

      If I was called by The Divines to hunt and kill Alduin.  Why does he act like I'm nothing, if yet he knows that I was called by the Gods themselves to slay a powerful beast?

      His he truely arrogant?  Or is he scared of me?

      He is Arrogant. not until the actual battle is he a bit scared.

      Though to be honest, he could have easily killed Alduin.

      I have to disagree with you on that. In order to kill Alduin, you need the Dragonrend shout. And clearly Miraak doesn't have that. So no, Miraak could not have killed Alduin. 
      What makes you think he doesn't?
      Hakon and the others were the only ones who knew it in that time. By then, Miraak was in Apocrypha. They only used it once and that was when they were fighting Alduin and now that they died, there is no way to learn it besides using an Elder Scroll which is how the Dragonborn learned it. Miraak was in Apocrypha so he didn't have an Elder Scroll.
      He's in the realm of all knowledge. He doesn't need an Elder Scroll.

      Dragonrend was created only by those three people. Miraak wasn't there when they defeated Alduin. Hermaeus Mora only taught him one shout and that was Bend Will, which was created by Herma-Mora. 

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    • Miraak has a shout to instantly kill a dragon, making dragonrend a little redundant. I doubt it would work on Alduin but it may have damaged him. Also, I feel like under his servitude to Hermaous Mora, he learned a plethora of shouts, Dragonrend included. 

      Lastly, Miraak comments saying he could have defeated Alduin way back when he roamed Nirn if the Dragonborn has already slain Alduin before he first encounters Miraak. He's arrogant and cocky with good reason to be, he's extremely powerful.

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    • Miraak could of used Bend Will on Alduin and then killed him. Sorry if posting on a thread that has been dead for two days is frowned upon, btw.

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    • 142.162.210.11 wrote:
      Miraak could of used Bend Will on Alduin and then killed him. Sorry if posting on a thread that has been dead for two days is frowned upon, btw.

      I'm pretty sure a Dragon god such as Alduin could easily resist Bend Will.

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    • 24.44.141.89 wrote:
      142.162.210.11 wrote:
      Miraak could of used Bend Will on Alduin and then killed him. Sorry if posting on a thread that has been dead for two days is frowned upon, btw.
      I'm pretty sure a Dragon god such as Alduin could easily resist Bend Will.

      well, he resisted MY bend will, so he can probably resist his, but still, if Miraak chose to kill Alduin back then he would have.

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    • Miraak is just a cunty Dragonborn and thats it. I mean when he said 'So the first Dragonborn meets the last' when you battle him was kinda annoying.

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    • 94.5.176.79 wrote:
      Miraak is just a cunty Dragonborn and thats it. I mean when he said 'So the first Dragonborn meets the last' when you battle him was kinda annoying.

      How is that annoying?

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    • 24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pickleseller wrote:
      24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pickleseller wrote:
      24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      GildaTheGriffin wrote:
      I hated Miraak.  The entire time I saw him or heard him always pissed me off.  As he is this super powerful Dragonborn like me, but he underestimates me at every damn turn.  Making him seem like nothing more then a bully.

      If I was called by The Divines to hunt and kill Alduin.  Why does he act like I'm nothing, if yet he knows that I was called by the Gods themselves to slay a powerful beast?

      His he truely arrogant?  Or is he scared of me?

      He is Arrogant. not until the actual battle is he a bit scared.

      Though to be honest, he could have easily killed Alduin.

      I have to disagree with you on that. In order to kill Alduin, you need the Dragonrend shout. And clearly Miraak doesn't have that. So no, Miraak could not have killed Alduin. 
      What makes you think he doesn't?
      Hakon and the others were the only ones who knew it in that time. By then, Miraak was in Apocrypha. They only used it once and that was when they were fighting Alduin and now that they died, there is no way to learn it besides using an Elder Scroll which is how the Dragonborn learned it. Miraak was in Apocrypha so he didn't have an Elder Scroll.
      He's in the realm of all knowledge. He doesn't need an Elder Scroll.
      Dragonrend was created only by those three people. Miraak wasn't there when they defeated Alduin. Hermaeus Mora only taught him one shout and that was Bend Will, which was created by Herma-Mora. 

      I was under the impression the Dragonrend shout was created from the suffering of all humans.

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    • I, personally, like Miraak. Just sayin'.

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      I, personally, like Miraak. Just sayin'.

      I totally agree I think he's more badass than Alduin.

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    • Not so much badass, more of a.... super powerful Sheldon. I can relate to Miraak more than anyone in Tamriel, too bad Hermaeus Mora killed him.

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    • Come to think of it,now that you said it,Miraak does sound a bit like Sheldon.But whatever,i like him the most because in the end,he's the only one who can throw up a decent thu'um duel.

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    • So true. I was level 41 before fighting Alduin (procrastination FTW!) and went to Sovngarde and was like:

      'Hey, Torryg. Hey, Ysgramor! Hey.... Ulfric....'

      And then came the battle against Alduin:

      Alduin: 'ROAR! I will devour your soul, mortal!

      Me: 'Sithis help me...'   *uses Nightingale blade* 

      It's super effective!

      One short fight later....

      Alduin: 'Noooooo!'

      Me: 'Noooooo!'

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      So true. I was level 41 before fighting Alduin (procrastination FTW!) and went to Sovngarde and was like:

      'Hey, Torryg. Hey, Ysgramor! Hey.... Ulfric....'

      And then came the battle against Alduin:

      Alduin: 'ROAR! I will devour your soul, mortal!

      Me: 'Sithis help me...'   *uses Nightingale blade* 

      It's super effective!

      One short fight later....

      Alduin: 'Noooooo!'

      Me: 'Noooooo!'

      xD I'm level 31 and I haven't even started the main quest!

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    • T.T How... whut? You haven't talked to Balgruuf.

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    • Three Dog:"Noooooo"

      Larry King: "Nooooo"

      Me: "Nooooooo"

      India: "Noooooo"

      Darth Vader: "Noooooo"

      He may have been a disapointment in the final battle,but i still think he's awesome,you know,because of graphics n' sh1t.His voice is way cool,also.

      Off topic,but

      Does anybody thought the Dragons could really speak?You know,the Yol in their Fire Breath attack is almost indistiguable from a normal wild roar.I'm saying this because the Legendary Dragons and Revered Dragons speak the three worded Drain Vitality shout perfectly.I would expect more from a creature that relies on speech to pwn people.

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    • Well, it wouldn't sound cool if they just yelled "Fire Sun Inferno!", would it?

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    • I didn't mean that,they shout Drain Vitality perfectly as you can her them says "La Haas" in their awesome voice actor.I meant they could speak the dragon language,not just roar like wild beasts.

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    • Well we know they can speak English. Y'know, Paarthurnax. On the subject of Miraak, I honestly think that's kind of the point. At this point in the game, you feel invincible, because you pretty much are. And then Miraak comes along and smashes that assumption. He has the same credentials you do. That's the whole idea of his character; to make you think about your own abilities.

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    • 99.251.99.122 wrote:
      Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      So true. I was level 41 before fighting Alduin (procrastination FTW!) and went to Sovngarde and was like:

      'Hey, Torryg. Hey, Ysgramor! Hey.... Ulfric....'

      And then came the battle against Alduin:

      Alduin: 'ROAR! I will devour your soul, mortal!

      Me: 'Sithis help me...'   *uses Nightingale blade* 

      It's super effective!

      One short fight later....

      Alduin: 'Noooooo!'

      Me: 'Noooooo!'

      xD I'm level 31 and I haven't even started the main quest!

      Yes, you have. You have at least completed the first main quest, Unbound, and started the second one.

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    • Lonebosmer41 wrote:
      Miraak has a shout to instantly kill a dragon, making dragonrend a little redundant. I doubt it would work on Alduin but it may have damaged him. Also, I feel like under his servitude to Hermaous Mora, he learned a plethora of shouts, Dragonrend included. 

      Lastly, Miraak comments saying he could have defeated Alduin way back when he roamed Nirn if the Dragonborn has already slain Alduin before he first encounters Miraak. He's arrogant and cocky with good reason to be, he's extremely powerful.

      Rome was extremely powerful, but the Romans were cocky and thought they no longer needed to develop, which lead to their downfall. There's never a good reason to be arrogant and cocky.

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    • Miraak is awesome. to bad he has to die...

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    • Why can't I help him to take over Solstheim and with him kill Alduin?

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    • 80.222.115.184 wrote:
      Why can't I help him to take over Solstheim and with him kill Alduin?

      because he needs to kill you and absorb your soul so he can escape Apocrypha.

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    • ... I'm not sure he *looks at page* oh would you look at that... Carry on!

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    • Dragonrend or not, I seriously doubt that Miraak was powerful enough to kill Alduin. The Last Dragonborn was a hero from a prophecy, sent by the gods to kill Alduin the World-Eater, whereas Miraak was just the first of several talented individuals. He was insanely powerful, yes, but stronger than the ancient Nord God of Destruction? I doubt it.

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    • DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Dragonrend or not, I seriously doubt that Miraak was powerful enough to kill Alduin. The Last Dragonborn was a hero from a prophecy, sent by the gods to kill Alduin the World-Eater, whereas Miraak was just the first of several talented individuals. He was insanely powerful, yes, but stronger than the ancient Nord God of Destruction? I doubt it.

      Let me put it like this; Miraak was in a fight that lasted multiple days; the combatants were both so powerful that the a chunk of skyrim BROKE OFF; The best the Dragonborn could do is knock a giant off a cliff.

      Also the 'Prophecy' wasn't written down until the Akaviri invaders came to Tamriel, that was much later than Miraak's time; had Miraak fought Alduin, he would have won and the prophecy would have never been created.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Dragonrend or not, I seriously doubt that Miraak was powerful enough to kill Alduin. The Last Dragonborn was a hero from a prophecy, sent by the gods to kill Alduin the World-Eater, whereas Miraak was just the first of several talented individuals. He was insanely powerful, yes, but stronger than the ancient Nord God of Destruction? I doubt it.
      Let me put it like this; Miraak was in a fight that lasted multiple days; the combatants were both so powerful that the a chunk of skyrim BROKE OFF; The best the Dragonborn could do is knock a giant off a cliff.

      Also the 'Prophecy' wasn't written down until the Akaviri invaders came to Tamriel, that was much later than Miraak's time; had Miraak fought Alduin, he would have won and the prophecy would have never been created.

      The Prophecy was foretold in the Elder Scrolls. The Akaviri didn't make them.

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    • I'm pretty sure Miraak has every reason to act like that.

      1. The Dragon Aspect word walls actually have his name on them, and they glorify him. He himself said he made the damn shout.

      2. His "Insta-kill dragon" shout is just amazing.

      3. Look at his robes, his robes are amazing, give em a lick, they taste like Hermaeus-Mora goop-piss stuff.

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    • Pickleseller wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Dragonrend or not, I seriously doubt that Miraak was powerful enough to kill Alduin. The Last Dragonborn was a hero from a prophecy, sent by the gods to kill Alduin the World-Eater, whereas Miraak was just the first of several talented individuals. He was insanely powerful, yes, but stronger than the ancient Nord God of Destruction? I doubt it.
      Let me put it like this; Miraak was in a fight that lasted multiple days; the combatants were both so powerful that the a chunk of skyrim BROKE OFF; The best the Dragonborn could do is knock a giant off a cliff.

      Also the 'Prophecy' wasn't written down until the Akaviri invaders came to Tamriel, that was much later than Miraak's time; had Miraak fought Alduin, he would have won and the prophecy would have never been created.

      The Prophecy was foretold in the Elder Scrolls. The Akaviri didn't make them.

      Everyone sees different things from the Eldesr Scrolls, and don't forget that it was through an Elder Scroll that moved Alduin out of time; had it not been for this intervention Miraak probably would have fought Alduin if he attempted to ruin Miraaks kingdom.

      And stop saying that just because it was prophecized that the LDB was destined to kill Alduin; the name LAST DRAGONBORN was meant to signify that time was a blurr after this point, so there was no possible dragonborn that could be seen after him, and the reason for this is because he had the possibility of failure, meaning that if he did fall Alduin would have been able to absorb the souls in Sorvngarde and would have been unstoppable.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Dragonrend or not, I seriously doubt that Miraak was powerful enough to kill Alduin. The Last Dragonborn was a hero from a prophecy, sent by the gods to kill Alduin the World-Eater, whereas Miraak was just the first of several talented individuals. He was insanely powerful, yes, but stronger than the ancient Nord God of Destruction? I doubt it.
      Let me put it like this; Miraak was in a fight that lasted multiple days; the combatants were both so powerful that the a chunk of skyrim BROKE OFF; The best the Dragonborn could do is knock a giant off a cliff.

      Also the 'Prophecy' wasn't written down until the Akaviri invaders came to Tamriel, that was much later than Miraak's time; had Miraak fought Alduin, he would have won and the prophecy would have never been created.


      If we follow that logic, the Last Dragonborn would not have been able to defeat Miraak, which he clearly did. So if the Dragonborn is weaker than Miraak, how come he beat him fair and square in combat?

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    • DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Dragonrend or not, I seriously doubt that Miraak was powerful enough to kill Alduin. The Last Dragonborn was a hero from a prophecy, sent by the gods to kill Alduin the World-Eater, whereas Miraak was just the first of several talented individuals. He was insanely powerful, yes, but stronger than the ancient Nord God of Destruction? I doubt it.
      Let me put it like this; Miraak was in a fight that lasted multiple days; the combatants were both so powerful that the a chunk of skyrim BROKE OFF; The best the Dragonborn could do is knock a giant off a cliff.

      Also the 'Prophecy' wasn't written down until the Akaviri invaders came to Tamriel, that was much later than Miraak's time; had Miraak fought Alduin, he would have won and the prophecy would have never been created.


      If we follow that logic, the Last Dragonborn would not have been able to defeat Miraak, which he clearly did. So if the Dragonborn is weaker than Miraak, how come he beat him fair and square in combat?

      every time I fought him[even with my max spell resistance Breton] I died dozens of times, it was pure luck that I finally killed him.

      and the battle that I did finally kill him in lasted four hours and tons of potions; that's right, my battle with him lasted about the same as the legendary battle that created an island.

      I'm not saying that The LDB is weak, just that Miraak was extremely powerfull, more than enough to defeat Alduin; Alduin is just a strong dragon, and not even the strongest of them.

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    • And I killed him with ease at level 36. That proves nothing. The only thing we have is his inflated ego telling us that he could have killed Alduin and that is most certainly not a reliable source. If other characters would have agreed upon this statement, then maybe, yes, then it would be some form of validation but as it stands, Miraak is just very full of himself and thus not very reliable when it comes to the truth.

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    • Alduin is a god. A rather weak god, but he's still a god.

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    • You are basing off gameplay again.In gameplay,a bandit needs 10 slashes to be killed.In lore,the sword tranverses his flesh,separing it and killing him.Alduin is the nordic God of Destruction.

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    • 'ALDUIN' [The Dragon] Is NOT the same as Alduin the GOD, Alduin the God is Akatosh, Alduin the Dragon is just a Dragon that can destroy the world.

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    • I'm sorry,but what i just read had no sense whatsoever in my head.Please,explain why Alduin isn't Alduin.

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    • Miraak was a much better antagonist then Alduin and Harkon. Just saying.

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    • Yeah .89.I know.Why don't you make a account?

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    • Yah i see this alot, why are there so many reoccurring wiki contributors. Why not just make an account?

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    • 89. is different.He has shown his grasp of lore in other threads,as much as the "worships Meridia" lady.They have to make accounts.

      Others such as .210 and .32,well.

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    • Sky Above,Voice Within wrote:
      89. is different.He has shown his grasp of lore in other threads,as much as the "worships Meridia" lady.They have to make accounts.

      Others such as .210 and .32,well.

      They don't have to make accounts. Some of us just choose not to because we have no real want to be an official part of this wiki. I just like being "official". Also, sincerely wish I could side with Miraak, I like someone that can believe in themselves. And he doesn't like Alduin. We were fighting for the same cause, but that he had to get though me if he wanted to get at the Dragons and take the world for himself. To be truthful, we all know we want to rule Cyrodiil.

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    • Sky Above,Voice Within wrote:
      I'm sorry,but what i just read had no sense whatsoever in my head.Please,explain why Alduin isn't Alduin.

      To put it simple:

      There are two beings with the name of Alduin, one is Akatosh, whose Nordic name is Alduin; The other is the Dragon Alduin.

      Akatosh is known as Alduin in the ancient nordic religioun because the ancient nords believed the gods to have Animal Avatars; The Animal Avatar of Akatosh was a dragon, so as the dragons where his avatar, the strongest of the dragons[Alduin] became known as Alduin, and he forced himself unto the Ancient Nords to be recognized as the God known as Alduin, who was actually Akatosh with a nordic name.

      Akatosh(god) = Alduin(god)

      Alduin(dragon) =\= Akatosh/Alduin(god)

      They share the name because the dragon forced the ancient nords to believe he was a god, when infact he was just a creation of the god who he claimed to be.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      There are two beings with the name of Alduin, one is Akatosh, whose Nordic name is Alduin; The other is the Dragon Alduin.

      Thats.... not really true.

      The Alduin we met in Skyrim is Alduin the god, and Alduin the dragon. All versions of a god exist, from Tosh Raka, to Auri-El, to Akatosh, to Alduin, and they are all THE time dragon, yet are all separate individual entities.

      Each is each others father, and each others son. Shor son of Shor, Ald son of Ald. Mirror brothers, created by mortal's various beliefs.

      http://www.imperial-library.info/content/shor-son-shor-full

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    • 24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pickleseller wrote:
      24.44.141.89 wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      GildaTheGriffin wrote:
      I hated Miraak.  The entire time I saw him or heard him always pissed me off.  As he is this super powerful Dragonborn like me, but he underestimates me at every !@#$%^&* turn.  Making him seem like nothing more then a bully.

      If I was called by The Divines to hunt and kill Alduin.  Why does he act like I'm nothing, if yet he knows that I was called by the Gods themselves to slay a powerful beast?

      His he truely arrogant?  Or is he scared of me?

      He is Arrogant. not until the actual battle is he a bit scared.

      Though to be honest, he could have easily killed Alduin.

      I have to disagree with you on that. In order to kill Alduin, you need the Dragonrend shout. And clearly Miraak doesn't have that. So no, Miraak could not have killed Alduin. 
      What makes you think he doesn't?
      Hakon and the others were the only ones who knew it in that time. By then, Miraak was in Apocrypha. They only used it once and that was when they were fighting Alduin and now that they died, there is no way to learn it besides using an Elder Scroll which is how the Dragonborn learned it. Miraak was in Apocrypha so he didn't have an Elder Scroll.


      No he wasn't. Hakon and the others wanted to use him to kill Alduin, so yeah, he wasn't there during that time, so Hakon and others might have telled it to him, before he said no.

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    • SajuukKhar wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      There are two beings with the name of Alduin, one is Akatosh, whose Nordic name is Alduin; The other is the Dragon Alduin.
      Thats.... not really true.

      The Alduin we met in Skyrim is Alduin the god, and Alduin the dragon. All versions of a god exist, from Tosh Raka, to Auri-El, to Akatosh, to Alduin, and they are all THE time dragon, yet are all separate individual entities.

      Each is each others father, and each others son. Shor son of Shor, Ald son of Ald. Mirror brothers, created by mortal's various beliefs.

      http://www.imperial-library.info/content/shor-son-shor-full

      That doesn't mean that Alduin the Dragon and Alduin the God are the same being; it just means that there is a god who is Akatosh, Aurie-El that has the name.

      if one where to be named Shor does that mean he is the same as The God that is Lorkhan?

      He claimed to be a god, and was percieved to be that god; but he is not that god.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      He claimed to be a god, and was percieved to be that god; but he is not that god.

      Proof? There is literally nothing in the game that even hints that the Alduin we fight is not Alduin the god.

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    • SajuukKhar wrote:
      Proof? There is literally nothing in the game that even hints...

      Sounds familiar.

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    • AzuraKnight wrote:
      Sounds familiar.

      Nice troll attempt.

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    • I do not "troll".

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      'ALDUIN' [The Dragon] Is NOT the same as Alduin the GOD, Alduin the God is Akatosh, Alduin the Dragon is just a Dragon that can destroy the world.

      Alduin is the first born of Akatosh

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    • Alduin is a god all the same. Stop arguing.

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    • We're only arguing because your WRONG!!

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    • Erm.... so you're going to take what a Nord who can't spell correctly says over what could quite possibly be true?

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    • It's canon

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    • And? There's a book that says they're one and the same as well. And as a bonus, it's well written.

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    • You know,  I want an option for Miraak to be good and become a potential canon spouse for the female Dragonborn.

      Bethesda made a mistake when they kill him off the storyline, Miraak is the First Dragonborn! all that good characteristics gone to waste. Should have use him wisely.

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      And? There's a book that says they're one and the same as well. And as a bonus, it's well written.

      Not to mention that Alduin not being Akatosh changes nothing since Akatosh isn't Auri-El, Auriel, Tosh Raka, Alkosh, or any of the other time dragons, yet they are all still THE time dragon god.

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    • Are you saying that they don't exist in TES?

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      Are you saying that they don't exist in TES?

      No?

      I am saying they are all seperate beings yet also all the time dragon at the same time.

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    • Aye. That I can agree to.

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    • DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Dragonrend or not, I seriously doubt that Miraak was powerful enough to kill Alduin. The Last Dragonborn was a hero from a prophecy, sent by the gods to kill Alduin the World-Eater, whereas Miraak was just the first of several talented individuals. He was insanely powerful, yes, but stronger than the ancient Nord God of Destruction? I doubt it.
      Let me put it like this; Miraak was in a fight that lasted multiple days; the combatants were both so powerful that the a chunk of skyrim BROKE OFF; The best the Dragonborn could do is knock a giant off a cliff.

      Also the 'Prophecy' wasn't written down until the Akaviri invaders came to Tamriel, that was much later than Miraak's time; had Miraak fought Alduin, he would have won and the prophecy would have never been created.


      If we follow that logic, the Last Dragonborn would not have been able to defeat Miraak, which he clearly did. So if the Dragonborn is weaker than Miraak, how come he beat him fair and square in combat?

      Novice Difficulty?

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    • what do you think miirak been alone for so long how wouldnt he not become a duchebag

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    • I thought i sent you to keep him company

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    • you never would for miraak isnt good enough for he is a duchbag of gods and also weak

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    • Pureslayer12 wrote:
      you never would for miraak isnt good enough for he is a duchbag of gods and also weak


      *douchebag

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    • 55 dvahkiins and 5 dovahbloods in my realm Miraak join me

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    • Knight Of The Dovahkiin wrote:
      DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Dragonrend or not, I seriously doubt that Miraak was powerful enough to kill Alduin. The Last Dragonborn was a hero from a prophecy, sent by the gods to kill Alduin the World-Eater, whereas Miraak was just the first of several talented individuals. He was insanely powerful, yes, but stronger than the ancient Nord God of Destruction? I doubt it.
      Let me put it like this; Miraak was in a fight that lasted multiple days; the combatants were both so powerful that the a chunk of skyrim BROKE OFF; The best the Dragonborn could do is knock a giant off a cliff.

      Also the 'Prophecy' wasn't written down until the Akaviri invaders came to Tamriel, that was much later than Miraak's time; had Miraak fought Alduin, he would have won and the prophecy would have never been created.


      If we follow that logic, the Last Dragonborn would not have been able to defeat Miraak, which he clearly did. So if the Dragonborn is weaker than Miraak, how come he beat him fair and square in combat?
      Novice Difficulty?

      Were it not for the intervention of a Daedric Prince of Fate, I honestly beileve that Miraak, would have proven himself to be alot stronger than the Last Dragonborn. Mora has shared the knowledge he needed to defeat miraak and become an obident little servent of the Daedric prince. So the logic still applies to the fact that Miraak is stronger than Alduin, as well as the Last Dragonborn.

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    • MemoryOfBreaker wrote:
      Knight Of The Dovahkiin wrote:
      DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      Dragonrend or not, I seriously doubt that Miraak was powerful enough to kill Alduin. The Last Dragonborn was a hero from a prophecy, sent by the gods to kill Alduin the World-Eater, whereas Miraak was just the first of several talented individuals. He was insanely powerful, yes, but stronger than the ancient Nord God of Destruction? I doubt it.
      Let me put it like this; Miraak was in a fight that lasted multiple days; the combatants were both so powerful that the a chunk of skyrim BROKE OFF; The best the Dragonborn could do is knock a giant off a cliff.

      Also the 'Prophecy' wasn't written down until the Akaviri invaders came to Tamriel, that was much later than Miraak's time; had Miraak fought Alduin, he would have won and the prophecy would have never been created.


      If we follow that logic, the Last Dragonborn would not have been able to defeat Miraak, which he clearly did. So if the Dragonborn is weaker than Miraak, how come he beat him fair and square in combat?
      Novice Difficulty?
      Were it not for the intervention of a Daedric Prince of Fate, I honestly beileve that Miraak, would have proven himself to be alot stronger than the Last Dragonborn. Mora has shared the knowledge he needed to defeat miraak and become an obident little servent of the Daedric prince. So the logic still applies to the fact that Miraak is stronger than Alduin, as well as the Last Dragonborn.


      No, Miraak is weaker than the Last Dragonborn - considerably weaker, in fact. Miraak lost the fight despite using four dragons to restore himself and when he was about to receive the finishing blow, Mora killed him.

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    • No, Miraak is weaker than the Last Dragonborn - considerably weaker, in fact. Miraak lost the fight despite using four dragons to restore himself and when he was about to receive the finishing blow, Mora killed him.

      Mora killing him actually means something don't you think? I mean, the idea that Miraak was able to resist Herma-Mora. In fact...Herma-Mora was the reason why Miraak Lost. Miraak was trying to keep himself in standing between fighting the Dragonborn and resist Mora in everyway possible for him to avoid him. Miraak bent the minds of seekers, and Lurkers, as well as Dragons to keep himself guarded at all times.

      Miraak was technically fighting off a Daedric prince in addition to the Dragonborn who took control of a dragon to keep the other dragons at bay. Miraak has more knowledge more power he learned from Herma-Mora and knew very well that if he used too much, Mora would grab him in an instant.

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    • Hey, c'mon guys. There is no real lore to compare the power of the LDB and Miraak, considering That gameplay wise his easiness is subjective to your dovahkiin's power (I had to restart the fight 4 times because Miraak died too quickly and glitched up, ON LEGENDARY). So, are you now saying Miraak is more powerful than the LDB? Even if the LBD pwned him in 5 seconds and killed his three dragons before he could absorb them? Gameplay doesn't equate lore, so those of you who kill him too fast, Miraak isn't weak lorewise and he isn't powerful lorewise either if he pwned your face. I'd say he is equivalent to the LDB in terms of power, in fact.

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    • 218.186.252.191 wrote:
      Hey, c'mon guys. There is no real lore to compare the power of the LDB and Miraak,

      Yes there is, considering the fact both of them were created to kill a god.

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    • wth am miraak and i seek vengeance1111

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      218.186.252.191 wrote:
      Hey, c'mon guys. There is no real lore to compare the power of the LDB and Miraak,
      Yes there is, considering the fact both of them were created to kill a god.

      Actually, I believe the LDB was blessed by Akatosh for this purpose, but not Miraak. Miraak just happened to be the first of the Tongues, meaning that he was meant to lead a rebellion against the Dragons. It's possible Miraak's purpose in life was to overthrow the Dovah rulers and end up a ruler (or at least someone well-respected), but became corrupted by Mora at some point.

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      218.186.252.191 wrote:
      Hey, c'mon guys. There is no real lore to compare the power of the LDB and Miraak,
      Yes there is, considering the fact both of them were created to kill a god.
      Actually, I believe the LDB was blessed by Akatosh for this purpose, but not Miraak. Miraak just happened to be the first of the Tongues, meaning that he was meant to lead a rebellion against the Dragons. It's possible Miraak's purpose in life was to overthrow the Dovah rulers and end up a ruler (or at least someone well-respected), but became corrupted by Mora at some point.

      Miraak was in fact a dragonborn. Don't forget that humans didn't know the Thu'um until Paarthurnax's intervention.

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    • GildaTheGriffin wrote:
      I hated Miraak.  The entire time I saw him or heard him always pissed me off.  As he is this super powerful Dragonborn like me, but he underestimates me at every damn turn.  Making him seem like nothing more then a bully.

      If I was called by The Divines to hunt and kill Alduin.  Why does he act like I'm nothing, if yet he knows that I was called by the Gods themselves to slay a powerful beast?

      His he truely arrogant?  Or is he scared of me?

      Well, if you think about it, you would see why he hates you.

      Say you're Miraak. You're the first person to ever gain the ability to perma-kill a dragon.

      Thousands of years later, you wake up. It's time to spread your reign of terror across Solsteim, even Tamriel! Oh wait... he can't because there's a guy in Whiterun who's pimp-slapping Dragons left and right. See my point here?

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    • Such great ego on this thread

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    • Drakwind wrote: A bit of both along with a small amount of respect. 

      He actually shows at the end of the fight he cares about you because he warns you about Hermaous Mora, and that he will betray you too, poor Miraak, he did that to make you unsure of yourself, so he has the upperhand from you being nervous I would guess.

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote:

      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      218.186.252.191 wrote:
      Hey, c'mon guys. There is no real lore to compare the power of the LDB and Miraak,
      Yes there is, considering the fact both of them were created to kill a god.

      Actually, I believe the LDB was blessed by Akatosh for this purpose, but not Miraak. Miraak just happened to be the first of the Tongues, meaning that he was meant to lead a rebellion against the Dragons. It's possible Miraak's purpose in life was to overthrow the Dovah rulers and end up a ruler (or at least someone well-respected), but became corrupted by Mora at some point.

      I personally think he was killed by the dragons, and Mora saw more in him, so he promised him to keep him alive in Apocrypha so he can come again later on, nope, Mora lied and killed him like Sigmus...

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    • MemoryOfBreaker wrote:

      No, Miraak is weaker than the Last Dragonborn - considerably weaker, in fact. Miraak lost the fight despite using four dragons to restore himself and when he was about to receive the finishing blow, Mora killed him.

      Mora killing him actually means something don't you think? I mean, the idea that Miraak was able to resist Herma-Mora. In fact...Herma-Mora was the reason why Miraak Lost. Miraak was trying to keep himself in standing between fighting the Dragonborn and resist Mora in everyway possible for him to avoid him. Miraak bent the minds of seekers, and Lurkers, as well as Dragons to keep himself guarded at all times.

      Miraak was technically fighting off a Daedric prince in addition to the Dragonborn who took control of a dragon to keep the other dragons at bay. Miraak has more knowledge more power he learned from Herma-Mora and knew very well that if he used too much, Mora would grab him in an instant.

      I am confused about Skyrim now, I say that Daedra can't really kill their champions, because either they are too lazy to do it themselves or they cant at all! That is why you are sent to kill them instead, and well, I agree, Mora is a cheating big ugly demon, and I wish that the fight was harder, but Miraak was strong in himself to resist staying in Apocrypha forever.

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    • TastyGamingWithRibz wrote:

      Drakwind wrote: A bit of both along with a small amount of respect. 

      He actually shows at the end of the fight he cares about you because he warns you about Hermaous Mora, and that he will betray you too, poor Miraak, he did that to make you unsure of yourself, so he has the upperhand from you being nervous I would guess.


      That's... not why he says that.

      Miraak's saying all that to convince LDB not to kill him, not be because he cares about the guy.

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    • Sure.... May she be rewarded as I was then, she kicked my sorry hide left and right in the form of a guy and I begged for mercy, ok seems legit enough, but I personally feel as if he was warning you, because well, look what Hermy did to him at the end, a tentacle straight through the heart, look at Septiumus, killed, and you, well, your next on that list, hehe, champion, your gonna die to the tentacles of a deadra.

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    • I am confused about Skyrim now, I say that Daedra can't really kill their champions, because either they are too lazy to do it themselves or they cant at all! That is why you are sent to kill them instead, and well, I agree, Mora is a cheating big ugly demon, and I wish that the fight was harder, but Miraak was strong in himself to resist staying in Apocrypha forever.

      I don't there's anything there mentioning that the daedras can't kill their champions. Rather Miraak was the one who betrayed Mora in the first place. this does not change the fact Mora probably tricked him at some point, which is the cause of his rebellion actions towards his master, but Mora never lied to Miraak in any possible way. Whether or not he foresaw his actions is unclear. but Mora didn't seem to mind what Miraak was doing in the first place. He simply deemed him useless after he was defeated by the LDB.

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    • In theory, he should be stronger than the LDB Thu'um wise. But, the LDB can use something known as a WEAPON and kill him with that. The Thu'um is no match for a bit of metal stabbed into his brain.

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    • He has Mora's sword and magicka.......

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    • I always figured Miraak as more of an investment piece than a Champion for Mora. Mora is all about knowledge, fate and can look through time, so maybe he kept Miraak alive as a kind of learning excersise for the Last Dragonborn. Maybe to prove a point, or to see if all mortals fall the same way when given power. He gives Miraak everything he needs to start a rebelion against the dragons, and when that falls through he saves the champion for later experiments. Maybe to lure a new champion to himself. The Princes aren't known for killing off their own champions, instead having mortals do that for them. By asking a mortal to kill someone for them it makes the person think they have a daedric prince in their debt, and it makes them want more. All of the little things the daedra asks for pile up, and then before you know it the Last Dragonborn has the same powers Miraak does, and Mora is sat there with a new champion and a new test subject to poke with a stick. It's like having a maid in your mansion that steals your stuff and you both know she does it. So then you go to the police and they get rid of her for you. And you offer the police a place working at your mansion for double the pay at their old job. And they become your new maid. And then you have to call the police again, because this new one has started stealing your stuff. 

      The Last Dragonborn gets to see another Dragonborn, one who was a Priest during the peak of Dragon dominion over the world. Practically a legend, and Mora is still able to maneuver this guy into a trap; the same way the Black Books lure people in, Mora used Miraak's own arrogance to drag him into Apogrypha. He give's Miraak all these ideas and this knowledge and Miraak runs with it. He effectively plants the idea of rebelion into an already narcissistic man and knows how it will end up. It sets up the idea that you can have the biggest set of balls in Tamriel, but Mora will be the one who gave them to you. And he can take them away just as easilly. Killing Miraak to give his knowledge to the LDB kind of proves that. You can only have what he gives you. He manipulates you into wrangling the Skaal knowledge out of Storn, and all for power. The same power that got Miraak locked up and Septimus Signus dead and dusted. After all the other daedric quests, you know that Miraak is going to die, and probably horribly. But the LDB still ends up giving Mora the new knowledge he lacks in exchange for old knowledge he has given to numerous other champions. 

      But somehow, Mora still manages to turn you into his pet. You do everything he says, and kill everyone he tells you to. You get him his knowledge, and sell your soul to him. And yet Miraak and Alduin are considered to be the main antagonists just because they want to destroy/control the world. 

      Maybe Miraak's fate his Mora's punishment for abandoning the Dragonborn's apparent destiny of killing Alduin. Or maybe none of the mortal realm matters to him, and he just gets his kicks out of seducing Dargonborns and giving other deities, gods, aedra and princes the middle finger when he steals their chosen ones. Maybe he just wants to win the divine betting pool and have the most chips when the world ends. 

      Either way, or any way really, I still kind of wish you could recruit Miraak and start a Dragonborn tag team.  

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    • I did XD I recruited him in my "Quadjit, the Mage, The Battle-maidens, and Miraak didn't have a name until I noticed he liked to drink, thus his nickname is the Drunk" Yea, pretty owerful league if you ask me, wipe Legendary Dragons off or their feet in a matter of seconds.

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    • Miraak is love.

      Miraak is LIFE.

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    • You did not just no!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GODS NO! GODS NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

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    • TastyGamingWithRibz wrote:
      You did not just no!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GODS NO! GODS NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

      Big Lol

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    • My life is a lie

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    • TastyGamingWithRibz wrote:
      My life is a lie

      Mine too

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    • My lie is a lie.

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    • All of ours is a big fat lie! We are dead already!

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    • TastyGamingWithRibz wrote:
      All of ours is a big fat lie! We are dead already!

      Oe are we all daedra, and only our physical forms are false?

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    • Good point........ I dunno

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    • my mothers maiden name is Murack... Murack=Miraak... kinda found that amusing. I for one loved his attitude. although he was quite easy sometimes, some of my characters died in like three seconds, others almost one shotted him.

      MIRAAK IS MY GRANDPA!!!

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      'ALDUIN' [The Dragon] Is NOT the same as Alduin the GOD, Alduin the God is Akatosh, Alduin the Dragon is just a Dragon that can destroy the world.

      Sorry, but no. Alduin the dragon is the earthly embodiment of Alduin the god. Alduin the god is a creation of Akatosh. So, as both Parthurnaax and Alduin imply/say, Akatosh is their 'father'.

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    • FriendlyCannibal wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      'ALDUIN' [The Dragon] Is NOT the same as Alduin the GOD, Alduin the God is Akatosh, Alduin the Dragon is just a Dragon that can destroy the world.
      Sorry, but no. Alduin the dragon is the earthly embodiment of Alduin the god. Alduin the god is a creation of Akatosh. So, as both Parthurnaax and Alduin imply/say, Akatosh is their 'father'.

      Tsk tsk tsk, thread necromancy is frowned upon.

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    • Wow, this thread went on for a long time. May I jump in ?

      Paarthurnax and all the other Dragons left ( sniff ! ) refer to him as their Fallen god , in that final scene atop the Throat of the World when they are mourning him. I personally felt sad for their loss, although destroying him was necessary, which Paarthurnax understands. I feel that Dragons ought to be considered smart enough to know the difference between a god and not a god. If they considered him a god, then I'll agree with that.

      The history of Tamriel is full of mortal beings becoming gods by various means, like that Dunmer Tribune that attained godhood, Nerevar, and Talos. ( Helloooooo !!! ) Alduin is repeatedly referred to as the Firstborn of Akatosh throughout the game. Sounds like some kind of god to me.

      Now, as to MIRAAK. Got a little ahead of himself there, didn't he ? Having those poor Solstheimers slaving away involuntarily to try to build him a temple ? Pretentious, to say the least. I'm personally glad that the Last Dragonborn gets to put him in his place. Too bad it takes the involvement of that wretched, creepy Hermaus Mora. Btw, cudos to the voice actors for them, and Paarthurnax. Fabulous job making them come across as awesome, arrogant, creepy, or annoying as hell.

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    • Let's be honest, striking a deal with any Daedra is bad business, especially with Herma-Mora.

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    • 181.226.178.11 wrote:
      Let's be honest, striking a deal with any Daedra is bad business, especially with Herma-Mora.

      Azura was perty kewl.

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    • I tried to make Miraak my follower and it took me an HOUR to load my Bend Will

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    • Lab Coat Billy wrote: And? There's a book that says they're one and the same as well. And as a bonus, it's well written.

      Written by an imperial from the first era

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    • Miraak said that Hakon and his companions wanted Miraak to learn Dragonrend, but he wanted to carve his own fate and ignore Alduin. Miraak mocks you for following the destiny of the Dragonborn because in his eyes, doing what you were meant to do is a sign of resignation, or, weak. Not true at all.

      Honestly, Miraak was probably a jerk from the beginning because he actually respected us.

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    • Miraak should have taken you seriously from the start, seeing as you'd just passed the greybeards training and already could resist bend will like it was nothing. But he also has a right to be cocky, he was stuck in Apocrypha for thousands of years.

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    • miraak is a better boss fight than alduin and the vampire lord.

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    • Definitely a better boss fight, but a royal pain in the tushy.

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    • A FANDOM user
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