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  • Though I personally believe he is a god because of three reasons from the Talos wiki page itself

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    • Also for all you Oblivion fans and those who actually want your dragon shouts to work well you prayed to a shrine of Talos. And guess what? It actually worked!! Wow!!!!!! I wonder why? Maybe gods are not the collective wishes and beliefs of enough people through their psyche!! Furthemore to gain the the gear in the Knights of the Nine, you needed to pray to Talos and it worked. Therefore with all these facts from this post and above Talos is a god. I don't care what high elf loving fanatic whants to argue with that but you can't just say 'Oh the Aldemeri must know what their saying, nevermind that every other race do not think them as highly as they themselves do. Nevermind that they are actually more vunerable to fire and ice in Oblivion that the othe "inferior" races, so that means being weaker to fire and ice is perfection.'

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    • Yes, but he is not as the nords say he is. He is an embodiment of Ysmir Wulfarth, Zurin Arctus, and Tiber Septim basically making a super Shezzarine.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Yes, but he is not as the nords say he is. He is an embodiment of Ysmir Wulfarth, Zurin Arctus, and Tiber Septim basically making a super Shezzarine.

      He's Hjalti Early-beard. I have no idea who Zurin is. 

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    • How is that difference to what the nords believe? Secondly how does that matter? As long as the Aldemeri are wrong than there is no problem to me.

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    • Pickleseller wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Yes, but he is not as the nords say he is. He is an embodiment of Ysmir Wulfarth, Zurin Arctus, and Tiber Septim basically making a super Shezzarine.
      He's Hjalti Early-beard. I have no idea who Zurin is. 


      Hjalti=Tiber Septim

      Zurin Arctus+Ysmir Wulfarth= Underking

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    • Jdarkdorsett wrote:
      How is that difference to what the nords believe? Secondly how does that matter? As long as the Aldemeri are wrong than there is no problem to me.

      It's different because the nords believe Talos is only Tiber Septim and he was made a god because he was a "good emperor".

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    • Good call, but at least the Aldemeri are wrong still.

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    • zurin artus was tiber septim's battlemage who became the underking he created the mantela that controlled numidium  

      TALOS IS A GOD. END OF CONVERSATION IT IS A FACT 

      J.M

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    • 2.100.91.168 wrote:
      zurin artus was tiber septim's battlemage who became the underking he created the mantela that controlled numidium  

      TALOS IS A GOD. END OF CONVERSATION IT IS A FACT 

      J.M

      Ysmir Wulfharth was the main part of the Underking.

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    • Nobody knows if Zurin or Wulfharth were the main part.All "evidence" comes from books and stuff.

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    • According to the Arcturian Heresy Ysmir was known as the Underking long before Arctus was part of him.

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    • According to a book.Yeah.Don't believe everything you read.

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    • Well what is the point for Bethesda to put in fake lore. The Arcturian Heresy gives a more believable explanation to almost everything Tiber Septim did.

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      According to a book.Yeah.Don't believe everything you read.

      What in Oblivion do you mean with that?Why would Bethesda put lore books in game if they aren't LORE BOOKS?

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Well what is the point for Bethesda to put in fake lore. The Arcturian Heresy gives a more believable explanation to almost everything Tiber Septim did.

      .............Just.....I don't see the point in not putting in fake lore.Many books in-game conflict with each other.

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Well what is the point for Bethesda to put in fake lore. The Arcturian Heresy gives a more believable explanation to almost everything Tiber Septim did.
      .............Just.....I don't see the point in not putting in fake lore.Many books in-game conflict with each other.

      My point is why would Bethesda give you fake information when the game itself is already fake? They could say that some chickens poop fire and we would be forced to believe them because they make the rules, so why would they put in fake rules? The whole point of the books in TES is to give information about things you normally would know nothing about from just playing the games.


      In a side note.

      The Arcturian Heresy was written by the Underking, basically proves it's suppose to be true.

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    • Beggar , Thief , Warrior and King are all lies.

      Hmm?Just because the Underking wrote it doesn't mean it's true.He is pretty much undead, his mind is most probably very different from before.

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    • Well I find it hard to believe that the Numidium could have been activated without the Underking.

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    • Hmm?The heart of Lorkhan was originally meant to power it, and it almost worked.

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    • They didn't have the heart though.

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    • The Dwarves did.And Tiber almost did, but I think Dagoth Ur drove him back.

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    • Pickleseller
      Pickleseller removed this reply because:
      Pointless
      15:19, August 11, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Oh, Talos is a god alright. But a fraud. He betrayed his allies and used their souls to power the Numidium, which ultimately made him mantle Lorkhan.

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    • Talos maybe a god,But he could've been an Elf the Aldemeri Dominion saying that Talos wasnt a god implies that Elves too cant reach Divineship.

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    • Auriel was an Elf, now a God.

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    • Make a new disscusion about the Falmer the one was Mother-F big

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    • Lord Hadron wrote:
      Auriel was an Elf, now a God.

      Auriel is the Aldmeri/Altmeri version of Akatosh.But all races have divine ancestry, except maybe the Argonians.This page .So all races can reach divinity, godly intervention or no.

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      Lord Hadron wrote:
      Auriel was an Elf, now a God.
      Auriel is the Aldmeri/Altmeri version of Akatosh.But all races have divine ancestry, except maybe the Argonians.This page .So all races can reach divinity, godly intervention or no.

      Was there ever a time where Akatosh was mortal and roamed the surface of Tamriel?

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    • JM i remember reading

      arkay was mortal and used to be a merchant

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    • J.M for those who played daggerfall or read warp in the west manamarco became a god and split himself in 2 a mortal version would lead order of the black wyrm and get killed in oblivion 

      not sure wat happened 2 god version also vivec almaxia and sotha sil became gods using the heart of the dead god lorhkan

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    • Lord Hadron wrote:
      Man of steak wrote:
      Lord Hadron wrote:
      Auriel was an Elf, now a God.
      Auriel is the Aldmeri/Altmeri version of Akatosh.But all races have divine ancestry, except maybe the Argonians.This page .So all races can reach divinity, godly intervention or no.
      Was there ever a time where Akatosh was mortal and roamed the surface of Tamriel?

      Not "mortal", but he did walk the surface of Tamriel in the Dawn and Mythic era's.

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    • I have a similar topic and indeed, I belive that Talos really is a devine since his blood needed to enter Mankar Camran's Paradise. I believe some people missunderstood me there. Weather or not, he mateled Shor and his incarnates, it's irrelevant. Talos became a one of the divines and Thalmor need to back off with their, he was human and he could not do so therefore. I am planing to make a blog on the reasons why Thalmor want to destroy Talos as a god from concience of everyone.

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    • @Legate Alexandros

      Talos is a Divine. But only because the power of the Numidium seeped into him when he roamed Tamriel with it. He DID mantle Lorkhan, because of the Brass Tower.

      Worship of Talos is obviously seen as heretical in the eyes of the Aldmeri Dominion. He didn't truely and honestly achieve divinity.

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    • Lord Hadron wrote:
      @Legate Alexandros

      Talos is a Divine. But only because the power of the Numidium seeped into him when he roamed Tamriel with it. He DID mantle Lorkhan, because of the Brass Tower.

      Worship of Talos is obviously seen as heretical in the eyes of the Aldmeri Dominion. He didn't truely and honestly achieve divinity.

      True but not fully true, the Numidium wasn't the only thing that made Talos a god, him and the Underking being a Shezarrine played a large role in his divinity. Also (don't quote me on this) I believe CHIM may have something to do with it.

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    • The short answer to the main question is that he is but he really, really, REALLY, shouldn't be.

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    • Rukathesoldier
      Rukathesoldier removed this reply because:
      /
      15:44, August 27, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Lord Hadron wrote:
      The Thalmor are right for hunting Talos worshippers. Worship is undoubtedly heretical.

      Not if Talos is actually a divine, and no, no body should be hunted unless they have malicious intentions.

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    • No one wants to worship an imposter.

      Assuming the position of High King if no one elected you, but you assumed the position by force. Those who worship a fraud, shall be put to the sword.

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    • It's not like he intended to be a god, it just happened, the fact that he was accepted into the Divines is proof he shouldn't be considered a fraud.

      If the Dovahkiin became a god after TES V would you really hate him for it.

      What you just said basically justifys the Crusades in our real life world.

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    • Crusades?

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    • Lord Hadron wrote:
      Crusades?

      You know the Crusades... religious wars between the Muslims and Christians.

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    • Right, I've heard of them. Don't have much depth into those matters, though.

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    • Lord Hadron wrote:
      Right, I've heard of them. Don't have much depth into those matters, though.

      forget I mentioned them, I don't want this turning into some thread amount the Crusades.

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    • Don't worry about that. It won't, seeing as I know little to nothing about the Crusades. 

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      It's not like he intended to be a god, it just happened, the fact that he was accepted into the Divines is proof he shouldn't be considered a fraud.

      If the Dovahkiin became a god after TES V would you really hate him for it.

      What you just said basically justifys the Crusades in our real life world.

      BUT he did intend to become a god. He went out of his way to insure that he became a god.

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    • I Like Bow Ties Bow Ties Are Cool wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      It's not like he intended to be a god, it just happened, the fact that he was accepted into the Divines is proof he shouldn't be considered a fraud.

      If the Dovahkiin became a god after TES V would you really hate him for it.

      What you just said basically justifys the Crusades in our real life world.

      BUT he did intend to become a god. He went out of his way to insure that he became a god.

      How did he intend on being a god, I've never seen anything that says this.

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    • He stayed with that giant golem at all times knowing that it would give him power and even though it was not sayed it is implied that he used The Heart to give himself the power of Lorkhan. 

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    • I Like Bow Ties Bow Ties Are Cool wrote:
      He stayed with that giant golem at all times knowing that it would give him power and even though it was not sayed it is implied that he used The Heart to give himself the power of Lorkhan. 

      He never actually became a god until the Warp in the West.

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    • Rukathesoldier
      Rukathesoldier removed this reply because:
      .
      15:44, August 27, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Why?

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    • Psh. Fraud. I will personally hunt down every talos worshipping fool in Skyrim. Long live the Aldmeri Dominion!

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    • AmateurIsMyGame wrote:
      Psh. Fraud. I will personally hunt down every talos worshipping fool in Skyrim. Long live the Aldmeri Dominion!

      Just stop...

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    • Wolf of Velka
      Wolf of Velka removed this reply because:
      Lolol
      20:46, September 11, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Wait, why was it deleted? I want to restore it, but I feel I shouldn't..

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    • AmateurIsMyGame wrote:
      Wait, why was it deleted? I want to restore it, but I feel I shouldn't..

      It was Ruka, the reason being "lol"

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    • Is it the Administrators deleting my comments, or can anyone?

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    • Anyone can.

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    • That's kind of stupid, if you have an asshole..They'll just delete it.

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    • hehehe

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    • Dovahsebrom
      Dovahsebrom removed this reply because:
      I'm basically an evil masterind
      20:07, August 27, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Troll-face.png

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    • Quit Trolling around! lol

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    • HOW DID YOU DO THAT?

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    • You just have to post the link, it also has to be a .png file.

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    • Why would you even want to post something like that? You would have the same success posting a Trololololololo song or something like that. Not that you should do this. Well it was started by the author of the thread, so I am guessing we can let it go, but it's not acceptable for other people to do!

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Why would you even want to post something like that? You would have the same success posting a Trololololololo song or something like that. Not that you should do this. Well it was started by the author of the thread, so I am guessing we can let it go, but it's not acceptable for other people to do!

      Relax it was a joke.

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    • Regardless of how he did it or what his original intentions were, the most bare bones answer is yes, Talos is a god. We know this because the player can recieve a blessing from him by praying at his altars or wearing an amulet that venerates him.

      Basically the Thalmor are just racist jerkoffs that don't like the idea of a human gaining that kind of power since that would put Man on the same level as Mer, and thus they hunt his worshipers to further belittle and degrade the races of Man.

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    • @98.28.88.47

      Thalmor hunt Talos worshippers because the Divines didn't make Talos a god, he forcefully became a god during the 'Warp in the West'.

      He's a god, but worship of Talos is conisdered heretical because of the way he achieved divinity.

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    • Yeah, but that doesn't really make him any less of a god for doing so, and besides, if I lived in Tamriel I'd rather worship him than say Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon.

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    • Just like how the Stormcloaks are heretics.

      They are the followers of Ulfric Stormcloak. He wanted to assume the position of High King, not by election, but by slaying Torygg.

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    • He did it by the oldest trick in the book, he used brute force, and in a way I can respect that.

      What makes a god in the end? Or a king, for that matter? Yes, there are things like a doctrine, followers, etc etc, but in the end there is only one answer as to what makes Talos a god, power.

      Talos became a god because he was powerful enough to surpass his mortal form and force his way into the Aedra's ranks, regardless of any protests that they put up, and Ulfric did the same thing.

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    • What makes a person a God? Is what he did that befits a God's traits. The Aedra that created Nirn, they're Gods. Power isn't what makes a God. 

      What you described probably befits a Daedric Lord, but not a God that governs a world and it's living beings. 

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    • Sure it does, you think they'd take Akatosh or the other divines seriously if they couldn't incinerate a city or close off the Oblivion gates? The main reason that mortals worship the Aedra and Daedra is because they're too powerful to ignore, their philosophies are really just secondary features in such cases.

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    • I'm not sure if their power is what earned them the respect of mortals.

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    • I'm not saying they're not powerful, that's just not the complete reason why they are worshipped and revered.

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    • Perhaps you're right, after all some gods and their spheres of influence would appeal to some people over others, but they still wouldn't be worshipped if they couldn't bless people or provide proof of their authority and strength as gods.

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    • Reguardless of all that even Auri-El was only a Demigod, and he tore out Lorkhan's Heart!

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    • Lord Hadron wrote:
      @98.28.88.47

      Thalmor hunt Talos worshippers because the Divines didn't make Talos a god, he forcefully became a god during the 'Warp in the West'.

      He's a god, but worship of Talos is conisdered heretical because of the way he achieved divinity.

      The diefication of Talos was an accident, and yet the gods still accept him. The only reason why the Thalmor hate Talos is the fact that he is basically the new Shor, a new god of man; and while he remains a god the elves will never reach there goals.

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      • Their
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    • I Like Bow Ties Bow Ties Are Cool wrote:
      *Their

      ಠ_ಠ

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    • best proof of Tiber Septim's divinity?


      wulf.

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    • "Either you die a idiot or you live long enough to become a Grammar Nazi."-Derpy Dragon

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    • What?

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    • Sky Above,Voice Within wrote:
      "Either you die a idiot or you live long enough to become a Grammar Nazi."-Derpy Dragon

      cheese buckets good day to you sir my yodeling is blue.

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    • Rukathesoldier wrote:
      Sky Above,Voice Within wrote:
      "Either you die a idiot or you live long enough to become a Grammar Nazi."-Derpy Dragon
      cheese buckets good day to you sir my yodeling is blue.

      Dafuq?

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    • Sky Above,Voice Within wrote:
      Rukathesoldier wrote:
      Sky Above,Voice Within wrote:
      "Either you die a idiot or you live long enough to become a Grammar Nazi."-Derpy Dragon
      cheese buckets good day to you sir my yodeling is blue.
      Dafuq?

      indeed the purple casing is setting in the engine. i say i must i mustard twice.

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    • Looks like Sheogorath's at it again.

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    • This seems like a jolly good affair! Would you like some tea, or perhaps some.. PUMPERNICKEL!?

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    • People, People are we going to spam the topic? This isn't about Sheogorath and his facination with CHEESE FOR EVERYONE! It's about weather Talos is a god or not. Well I guess that argument was resolved already. Only those Thalmor lovers (Who I hear are mostly Trolls) think otherwise about Talos' divinity. By the way, I should get on that blog I said I will write about this same question.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      People, People are we going to spam the topic? This isn't about Sheogorath and his facination with CHEESE FOR EVERYONE! It's about weather Talos is a god or not. Well I guess that argument was resolved already. Only those Thalmor lovers (Who I hear are mostly Trolls) think otherwise about Talos' divinity. By the way, I should get on that blog I said I will write about this same question.

      Keep your goals away from the Trolls.

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    • Hey. I genuinely like the Thalmor <3

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    • Well, it is not my personal believe that Trolls like everything about Thalmor. I think it was Pink Slim that brough it up somewhere. Said that only Trolls would be in awe of what Thalmor are. Are you sure you are not talking about Altmer? Because you have to be an Altmer to be a Thalmor, but you don't have to be a Thalmor to be an Altmer. Altmer are the High Elves, they are a race of proud mer. A bit snoby if you ask me, but not evil. Now the Thalmor is a radical group within the Aldmeri Dominion who sadly calls all the shots in there, ever since Oblivion Crisis. They are for the most part a bunch of liars, trying to make everyone believe that they were the ones that stoped the Oblivion Crisis. The baning of Talos is only the tip of iceberg in their shemes. They believe that destroying everything that was caused by creation would bring them back to divinity. So they want to destroy men, even from the memmories, so that there wouldn't even be a possibilty for them to exist. Then, they want to destroy Mondus, the mortal plane, where Nirn and all other planets of the universe located. They are like Nazis, but worst in that sense. So, do you really genuinely like the Thalmor, despised of all the evil things they are trying to do? Or you just confusing them with the rest of Altmer, who don't have to share their views with Thalmor? They want to get back to their divinity, but they are choosing the path of enlightenment, like Auriel. Thalmor just think that they have an easier way out, destroy everything that creation had made.

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    • Hmm. I suppose Altmer then. But, when it comes to videogames, I like the evil paths and people. I like Altmer a LOT more, though.  It all depends on what I'm roleplaying as well. Though, the Oblivion Crisis thing was a bit dickish..

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    • One thing is for certain though, the Thalmor are crazy bastards.

      On the topic of Talos though, I'm questioning exactly what his condition is asa god, unlike the other Aedra he didn't need to give up his immortality in order to help create Nirn, meaning that he probably didn't need to bind himself into the planet to survive, so that means that in terms of what he can do he might be more like a daedric prince than an Aedra.

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    • talos is a god end of story

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    • The thalmor don't care about talos worship. It's just to send Skyrim into anarchy so the next time they invade no reinforcements will come from the north.

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    • 212.205.225.206 wrote:
      The thalmor don't care about talos worship. It's just to send Skyrim into anarchy so the next time they invade no reinforcements will come from the north.

      That is true, but removing Talos is part of the Thalmor master plan.

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    • Look at it this way, ever since Talos became a divine, it was Talos basically = Shor

      At the same time as we know, Shor = Lorkhan

      Who is Lorkhan to Thalmor, besides being the defender of men? The god creator, or trickster who tricked other Aedra into helping him creating Mondus. The whole, sole reason for Thalmor to be traped in Mondus and specifically, on Nirn. They may be wrong in their believe, but they honestly think that they used to be E'hernofrey (sp?) that used to be in the god heads in Autherius, until Lorkhan tricked other Aedra into creating Mondus.

      So, removing Talos from Pantheon is personal for Thalmor, not just because Talos had subjugated Summerset Isles with Numidium long time ago, (And Thalmor appearantly like elephants, never forget) but also because they hate the idea of anyone taking the niech of hated Lorkhan in any shape or form. I think they were quite fine with Shor/Lorkhan being a missing god and they want to keep it that way. Plus, Talos might just be the only divine out there capable of defending mankind from Thalmor master plan. They might see their evil plan of destroying men and Mondus imposible, unless they will find a way to get rid of Talos.

      Anarchy within mankind from banning Talos worshiping, is a welcomed side effect to Thalmor. Saves them the trouble of exterminating every single man. Plant the seeds of Anarchy and just watch them kill each other. Why do you think it's in their best interest to keep civil war going? If men don't kill each other, they at least will weaken themselves, so it will be no problem at all for those High Born Thalmor to finish off the survivors.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Look at it this way, ever since Talos became a divine, it was Talos basically = Shor

      At the same time as we know, Shor = Lorkhan

      Who is Lorkhan to Thalmor, besides being the defender of men? The god creator, or trickster who tricked other Aedra into helping him creating Mondus. The whole, sole reason for Thalmor to be traped in Mondus and specifically, on Nirn. They may be wrong in their believe, but they honestly think that they used to be E'hernofrey (sp?) that used to be in the god heads in Autherius, until Lorkhan tricked other Aedra into creating Mondus.

      So, removing Talos from Pantheon is personal for Thalmor, not just because Talos had subjugated Summerset Isles with Numidium long time ago, (And Thalmor appearantly like elephants, never forget) but also because they hate the idea of anyone taking the niech of hated Lorkhan in any shape or form. I think they were quite fine with Shor/Lorkhan being a missing god and they want to keep it that way. Plus, Talos might just be the only divine out there capable of defending mankind from Thalmor master plan. They might see their evil plan of destroying men and Mondus imposible, unless they will find a way to get rid of Talos.

      Anarchy within mankind from banning Talos worshiping, is a welcomed side effect to Thalmor. Saves them the trouble of exterminating every single man. Plant the seeds of Anarchy and just watch them kill each other. Why do you think it's in their best interest to keep civil war going? If men don't kill each other, they at least will weaken themselves, so it will be no problem at all for those High Born Thalmor to finish off the survivors.

      To kill Man is to reach Heaven, from where we came before the Doom Drum's iniquity. When we accomplish this, we can escape the mockery and long shame of the Material Prison.

      To achieve this goal, we must:

      1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.

      2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.

      3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit.

      -Thalmor Master plan


      They want to kill Talos, not as revenge, but because he literally makes it so that all souls are bound to mundus, he is basically himself one of the towers.

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    • I believe I mentioned that too in the way. Amoung all other things, that makes them not like Talos, they want Talos gone mostly because he stands in the way of their master plan. Also, I do believe that they were quite happy that Shor is missing from the pantheon, as he wouldn't stand in the way of their master plan, but now they have Talos who is essentially new Shor, or Shor restored within the pantheon as Talos. Now once again, the missing god, the whole reason the Mondus was created in the first place, stands in their way of destroying Mondus and men.

      The saddest part, is that more then likely that theory of returning back to heaven if they achieve all that destruction is wrong. Was it Pink Slim that pointed out that Altmer are no more E'henofrey then men? The original E'henofrey, resided on Aldmeries and they were Aldmer. Summerset Isles, used to be a part of that continent, but it split up. The Altmer who live there are not the same Aldmer that lived on Aldmeris anymore, but they kept their culture. Men used to be just like Aldmer before, but they decided to travel and the further they got from Aldmeris, the less of Aldmer they had. Eventually, Aldmer did not recognized the original men as E'henofrey anymore. According to Pink Slim, none of the races of Tamriel in present time, really related to original E'henofrey. So, it doesn't seem that Thalmor's plan really going to restore their divinity, especially since chances are that they never had that devinity in the first place. They just have the bigger head then the average Altmer.

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    • Pretty much, yes. The Ehlnofey (or whatever they were called) are the only "creator race" other than the Hist and Khajit that survived Mundus' creation (if I remember it correctly) and eventually evolved into Men and Mer (likely the reason why they can interbreed and create Bretons), Auri-el and the other seven original Aedra supported the Mer (for whatever reason, probably because they were pretty or something.) while Lorkhan/Shor supported Men, and the Daedra just did whatever they were doing back then. After they killed Lorkhan, the Mer ascended to dominance over Nirn until Alessia's time, then slowly lost ground until finally falling under Tiber Septim who would later take up Lorkhan's mantle to become Talos, thus truly showing Man's rise to power. Perhaps this is cyclical, with Men and Mer exchanging positions of power and the balance is slowly turning in the Mers' favor?

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    • There were other divines besides Lorkhan/Shor that suported men. For example Kyne/Kynareth, who is considered mother of men, or at least of Atmorans/Nords. I am sure her handmaiden Mara was also on men's side. Not to mention brothers, Tsun and Sthun/Stenddar, first of whom gave his life to defend Shor. Also, one of the divines if I remember, did not even exist until creation, the god of seasons and burials Arkey. Although, he isn't the original divine of most of the Empire. I do belive he was amongs original gods of Bosmer pantheon, not sure if Nords always recognized him. The nine divines of the Empire, for the most part collection of divines from all over Tamriel, under different names, but they don't include every divine from all over Tamriel in the general Pantheon. If they did, they would revere Alessia and Remen from Cyrodil and Ysmir from Skyrim all over the Tamriel. But indeed, Akray often considers to me mortals' god, since he was born in the process of creation of the mortal plane, or Mondus.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      There were other divines besides Lorkhan/Shor that suported men. For example Kyne/Kynareth, who is considered mother of men, or at least of Atmorans/Nords. I am sure her handmaiden Mara was also on men's side. Not to mention brothers, Tsun and Sthun/Stenddar, first of whom gave his life to defend Shor. Also, one of the divines if I remember, did not even exist until creation, the god of seasons and burials Arkey. Although, he isn't the original divine of most of the Empire. I do belive he was amongs original gods of Bosmer pantheon, not sure if Nords always recognized him. The nine divines of the Empire, for the most part collection of divines from all over Tamriel, under different names, but they don't include every divine from all over Tamriel in the general Pantheon. If they did, they would revere Alessia and Remen from Cyrodil and Ysmir from Skyrim all over the Tamriel. But indeed, Akray often considers to me mortals' god, since he was born in the process of creation of the mortal plane, or Mondus.

      Ah, I'd forgotten those guys somehow, but the main champion of Men has usually been Shor/Lorkhan (and most recently Talos).

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    • Perhaps Talos is a god. Regardless, I believe he is not deserving of his divinity.

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    • Why not? He did manage to unite Tamriel and achieve a true empire.

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    • 98.28.88.47 wrote:
      Why not? He did manage to unite Tamriel and achieve a true empire.

      By being a megalomanical assh0l3.

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    • From all I heard and read about him, I have a negative view on him. I disagree with the Thalmor on whether he is or is not a god, but I feel he should be removed from the numbers of the Divines.

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    • Sky Above,Voice Within wrote:
      98.28.88.47 wrote:
      Why not? He did manage to unite Tamriel and achieve a true empire.
      By being a megalomanical assh0l3.

      I hate to be that guy but... So? It doesn't really matter what he was like, he managed to do something incredible that ultimately benefitted the people of Tamriel, there was nothing like the Septim empire in all of Nirn's history.

      @Aurora why should he be removed from the Divines? That's where he belongs now, among the gods of Man and Mer kind.

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    • That is like saying the Last Dragonborn will become a divine for what they did, but will they? I believe not, especially if they are a vampire.

      He should be removed from the Divines because he was never meant to be there in the first place.

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    • 98.28.88.47 wrote:
      Sky Above,Voice Within wrote:
      98.28.88.47 wrote:
      Why not? He did manage to unite Tamriel and achieve a true empire.
      By being a megalomanical assh0l3.
      I hate to be that guy but... So? It doesn't really matter what he was like, he managed to do something incredible that ultimately benefitted the people of Tamriel, there was nothing like the Septim empire in all of Nirn's history.

      @Aurora why should he be removed from the Divines? That's where he belongs now, among the gods of Man and Mer kind.

      ?....really?Okay then, i guess there's nothing wrong with killing a recently born baby if you know he's gonna do something nasty.I guess there's nothing wrong with burning a village if you know that village is going to start a plague.I guess the end justifies the means, then.

      .........

      Talos is a symbolical representation of Hjalti's ambition.It is still the Eight for me.

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    • I will bring you an example from our own history. Well Japanese to be exact. Oda Nobunaga, born from the chaos of Sengoku era Japan, when various  Feudal lords were fighting each other for control of the land and being a Shogun. In the end it was nothing but the chaos all around, for century or so. Nobunaga used whatever means necessary, to rise from a minor feudal lord to the mightiest military force in the land. His goal was to unite Japan under one sword and end the chaos that ravaged the land for so long. Yet, he is known in history as Demon King, for his rutheless treatment of those who opposed him.

      Hjalti Early Beard was just like Oda Nobunaga, born to the land ravaged by chaos of various factions fighting each other for control of Ruby throne. He just was destined to rise above all that chaos and finaly bring peace to the land. He was preaty much chosen by divines when the location of Amulet of Kings was revealed to him and when he became trully a Dragonborn. He might have used cruel measures to fight his enemies, but his enemies wouldn't hesitate to use same measures against his own people, Tamriel was in chaos for few centuries at least by then. However, when Talos united all of the provinces of Tamriel, it ensured a long lasting peace. Besides the war of Red diamond and disputes of Lariat family and Septims for succession, between Tiber Septim founding the Empire and Oblivion crisis, the Provinces were in relative peace for once. That seem to have been for the first time in ages.

      You may think he was cruel and a megalomaniac, but he wouldn't have suceded any other way, at least not likely. His greatest goal more then likely was not to rule the biggest Empire in history, but to bring long awaited peace to Tamriel. Even at the end of Redguard Adventures, you find out that Tiber Septim is not so bad and that he actually dissaproved of Richton's methods when he realised what his governor was doing on Stros M'Kai. I maybe wrong and you maybe right, but just like with Nobunaga, I don't see Tiber Septim as an evil jerk who only slaughered people and burned villages to rule the biggest empire. Whould you have approved then of what was happening during interregnum? When all three aliances tried to do all in their power to sabotage the other two, so that they would have a shot at ruby throne? Although I am not sure all three used similar methods, I haven't experienced the story of ESO from perspectives of all three aliances, but I have a feeling that Dagerfall Covenant and Aldmeri Dominion, were more ruthless in that war.

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    • Aurora Estrella wrote:
      That is like saying the Last Dragonborn will become a divine for what they did, but will they? I believe not, especially if they are a vampire.

      He should be removed from the Divines because he was never meant to be there in the first place.

      Yah so that way the Thalmors job can be easier right? Talos never ascended on purpose and it's not his fault that he is worshiped as a god. You think just because Talos conquered the world that he doesn't deserve to be a divine. Man needs Talos, especially during the events of Skyrim.

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    • Aurora Estrella wrote:
      That is like saying the Last Dragonborn will become a divine for what they did, but will they? I believe not, especially if they are a vampire.

      He should be removed from the Divines because he was never meant to be there in the first place.


      Neither should the other Eight then,since if it weren't for Lorkhan there wouldn't even be a Mundus or Nirn to begin with. They just bound themselves to Mundus to avoid dying.

      @Sky: Yeah, pretty much, it's not pretty by any means, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

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    • Even if Arcturian Heresy is right and Talos did kill his friend Cuhlecaine, he felt remorse, enough to try to commit suicide. Only, he was not even able to kill himself after he cut his throat. He understood then for certain, that he is meant for greater things. He still paid the price for murdering his friend, in the form of his t'hum. After his attempted suicide, he lost his Dragonborn ability to shout, so he was no different then the rest when he ascended the throne and it still didn't stop him from making the biggest empire in history.

      If Cuhlecaine succeded in his goal, would he be a better Emperor then Talos? Was he driven with the goal to end the chaos of interregnum? Or he was driven by territorial gains? Remember Cuhlecaine was King or Jarl of Falkreath and he also seemed to want to add Colovian Estates to his holdings as well. Talos was Hjalti before hand, more then likely a commoner, it seemed that he started as a soldier before he became the aclaimed General Talos. Meaning that he was more of a soldier and a commoner at heart, not a royalty like Cuhlecaine. He wouldn't be driven so much by teritorial gains as much as his friend, so it is wrong to claim that he was just a megalomaniac.

      Also, I did not post my last post, making comparisons to prove my point so that people would just ignore it. Other people write long posts around here too, but they do get responds to them. By the way, ignoring someone's valid point doesn't make your point right. You cannot say that Talos is not deserving to be a divine, because he was an a-hole in life, based on your own opinion. But I am afraid it is pointless to argue with certain people around here.

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    • Oh no we got it, it's just that we were focusing on other points at the time.

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    • Tiber Septim was never a megalomaniac, I don't know where it says that anywhere. Basically he wanted to bring peace to Tamriel by any means necessary.

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    • I quite agree with you, but I believe someone here views him as a jerk, a-hole, d-bag and megalomaniac, who cared only about teritorial gains with any means possible. I don't want to insult anyone, but it seems that people who say that are preaty narrow minded and view the issue only from one perspective. They probably have an initial look at Talos and already formed an opinion, that they don't want to change. However, to understand Talos, one must look deeper. I am not agreeing with Talos on everythig he did, but I believe he did deserved to be a divine, especially since other divines accepted him as one of them and a replacement for Shor. Sometimes, I belive that he became one and the same with Shor and by becoming a divine, he might even have brough Shor into the pantheon of divines of Empire again, just by a different name.

      At least he wasn't like Tribunal, who purposely used the heart of Lorkhan to become living gods. Sure, they might have though that people need gods that live among them, but why should they in particular have that power? Also, what they did, didn't make them gods in the eyes of other gods. In fact, because of their selfish action, entire race of Chimer was punished with being Dunmer for the rest of the ages. Even after Tribunal was no more, the curse have not lifted from Chimer and they are still Dunmer.

      Edit: In case you are wondering, what is that that I dissagree with Tiber Septim, is the way he treated Berinziah. Her child would have been just as much his heir as well, as his legitimate heir. Look where it got his line? Whoever were his sons, they have died before he did, leaving him with just one grandson, Pelagius. After Pelagius I was assassinated (I believe) there were no more direct heirs of Tiber Septim. His niece Kyntira I took over after Pelagius I was killed (?). If he would let Berenzhiah to keep their baby, perhaps he would have another heir that would continue his line. Speaking of which, one thing doesn't make sense to me. Tiber lived long enough to bury all of his sons, and yet they gave him just one grandson? That ofcourse providing that he only had just one son. But with Uriel Septim VII, it definetly doesn't make sense, he had three sons, all of them were in their 50's by the time them and their father were assassinated. How come there are no mention of their families? Royalties always make sure that they marry off their children early enough and Uriel VII, should have had tons of grandkids by then. In fact, there should have been so many of them that Mystic Dawn shouldn't have been able to murder all of them that easily. However, that is off topic, just the though I had recently.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      I quite agree with you, but I believe someone here views him as a jerk, a-hole, d-bag and megalomaniac, who cared only about teritorial gains with any means possible. I don't want to insult anyone, but it seems that people who say that are preaty narrow minded and view the issue only from one perspective. They probably have an initial look at Talos and already formed an opinion, that they don't want to change. However, to understand Talos, one must look deeper. I am not agreeing with Talos on everythig he did, but I believe he did deserved to be a divine, especially since other divines accepted him as one of them and a replacement for Shor. Sometimes, I belive that he became one and the same with Shor and by becoming a divine, he might even have brough Shor into the pantheon of divines of Empire again, just by a different name.

      At least he wasn't like Tribunal, who purposely used the heart of Lorkhan to become living gods. Sure, they might have though that people need gods that live among them, but why should they in particular have that power? Also, what they did, didn't make them gods in the eyes of other gods. In fact, because of their selfish action, entire race of Chimer was punished with being Dunmer for the rest of the ages. Even after Tribunal was no more, the curse have not lifted from Chimer and they are still Dunmer.

      Yah, not to mention the fact that they betrayed Wulfharth and Shor in order to obtain the Heart, the fact that they used it for there own selfish desires and inturn cursed the chimer adds insult to injury.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Legate Alexandros wrote:
      I quite agree with you, but I believe someone here views him as a jerk, a-hole, d-bag and megalomaniac, who cared only about teritorial gains with any means possible. I don't want to insult anyone, but it seems that people who say that are preaty narrow minded and view the issue only from one perspective. They probably have an initial look at Talos and already formed an opinion, that they don't want to change. However, to understand Talos, one must look deeper. I am not agreeing with Talos on everythig he did, but I believe he did deserved to be a divine, especially since other divines accepted him as one of them and a replacement for Shor. Sometimes, I belive that he became one and the same with Shor and by becoming a divine, he might even have brough Shor into the pantheon of divines of Empire again, just by a different name.

      At least he wasn't like Tribunal, who purposely used the heart of Lorkhan to become living gods. Sure, they might have though that people need gods that live among them, but why should they in particular have that power? Also, what they did, didn't make them gods in the eyes of other gods. In fact, because of their selfish action, entire race of Chimer was punished with being Dunmer for the rest of the ages. Even after Tribunal was no more, the curse have not lifted from Chimer and they are still Dunmer.

      Yah, not to mention the fact that they betrayed Wulfharth and Shor in order to obtain the Heart, the fact that they used it for there own selfish desires and inturn cursed the chimer adds insult to injury.


      It seems like most people just viewed the fact that he achieved peace through force as an evil act, and that nowadays if you do something like that you're a monster who should be brought down. What isn't often looked at is how things worked in the Dark Ages/Pax Romana era when communications systems and multiculturalism weren't nearly as developed as they are today, back in those days might made right, and if you didn't have the power to back up your ideals you were just a nameless peon.

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    • 98.28.88.47 wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Legate Alexandros wrote:
      I quite agree with you, but I believe someone here views him as a jerk, a-hole, d-bag and megalomaniac, who cared only about teritorial gains with any means possible. I don't want to insult anyone, but it seems that people who say that are preaty narrow minded and view the issue only from one perspective. They probably have an initial look at Talos and already formed an opinion, that they don't want to change. However, to understand Talos, one must look deeper. I am not agreeing with Talos on everythig he did, but I believe he did deserved to be a divine, especially since other divines accepted him as one of them and a replacement for Shor. Sometimes, I belive that he became one and the same with Shor and by becoming a divine, he might even have brough Shor into the pantheon of divines of Empire again, just by a different name.

      At least he wasn't like Tribunal, who purposely used the heart of Lorkhan to become living gods. Sure, they might have though that people need gods that live among them, but why should they in particular have that power? Also, what they did, didn't make them gods in the eyes of other gods. In fact, because of their selfish action, entire race of Chimer was punished with being Dunmer for the rest of the ages. Even after Tribunal was no more, the curse have not lifted from Chimer and they are still Dunmer.

      Yah, not to mention the fact that they betrayed Wulfharth and Shor in order to obtain the Heart, the fact that they used it for there own selfish desires and inturn cursed the chimer adds insult to injury.

      It seems like most people just viewed the fact that he achieved peace through force as an evil act, and that nowadays if you do something like that you're a monster who should be brought down. What isn't often looked at is how things worked in the Dark Ages/Pax Romana era when communications systems and multiculturalism weren't nearly as developed as they are today, back in those days might made right, and if you didn't have the power to back up your ideals you were just a nameless peon.

      He did what any other person in his power would have tried to do.

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    • This is the reason the High Elves make me mad in Skyrim. You as the hero of Kvatch(assuming you've played Oblivion) meet Talos. You meet and talk to him. He is a god. He has holy artifacts that you use. You need to pray at his shrines to get them. He is a god. All through the game the high elves keeps going on about him not being a true god because he's not one of the original aedra. But you as the player know they are wrong.


      Also the high elves take responability for ending the oblivion crisis too, so that pisses me off, and makes me hate them.

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    • Talos the human, might not have been original Aedra, but it quite posible that by manteling Shore/Lorkhan, he became one and the same with the missing god. Except when he ascended to Autherius, he was present in the image of a new divine, who essentially took the place of Lorkhan in the pantheon. Originaly, there was supposed to be 9 divines, but we all know what happened to Lorkhan. I also believe that Thalmor also cannot stand the idea that Lorkhan had been restored in any shape or form to the pantheon and it would make their job of destroying Mondus, all the harder. Again, I don't think all High Elves share Thalmor's views, especially those that you find living in Skyrim like ordinary citizens. Take for example Nireny, and the stable couple at Windhelm. They just trying to fit into the society and doing better job at it in Windhelm then Dunmer. Cannot realy judge Nurelian, he is jusk an old grumpy elf. The priest of Arkay in Falkreath was even fighting in Great War for Aldmeri Dominion, but he seems like he put that behind and became part of Skyrim's society as well. The tailor sisters at Solitude think a bit too much of the quality of their craft, but at least Terie is more customer friendly then her sister. It turns out that only Thalmor that walk around Skyrim, enforcing White Gold Concordum are really those radical, "Talos is not a god, destroy men and Mondus" kind of High Elves. Try not to generalize when you blame Thalmor, not all Altmer share their opinion. Believe me, I've been there, I even teased my wife when she made an Altmer as her first character, calling her a Thalmor and all. The background that I made for my own High Elf character actually makes him a former Thalmor. Although during great war, he only was in Alinor and only recently came to Skyrim with the rest of Thalmor. When he realized what they were doing to people in Skyrim, he left...and became a vampire to become a better wizard then he already was, as his goal is to master all schools of magic. However, enough of the character talk. As far as Pax Romana goes, the Septim Empire also made me think of that. After Roman Empire conquered all of those warring tribes in Euroupe, they establish a period of peace, their techonology ensured infrastructure that sometimes is still in use today in certain countries. Dark Ages can be an example of what had happened to Europe after Roman Empire fell and Roman knowledge was slowly forgoten in most of Europe. I shall go in more details of that later, if you would allow me to.

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    • 75.172.104.187 wrote:
      This is the reason the High Elves make me mad in Skyrim. You as the hero of Kvatch(assuming you've played Oblivion) meet Talos. You meet and talk to him. He is a god. He has holy artifacts that you use. You need to pray at his shrines to get them. He is a god. All through the game the high elves keeps going on about him not being a true god because he's not one of the original aedra. But you as the player know they are wrong.


      Also the high elves take responability for ending the oblivion crisis too, so that pisses me off, and makes me hate them.

      Altmer ≠ Thalmor

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    • Exactly, Altmer is a race of elves and Thalmor a radical group within Aldmeri Dominion. It's true that for the most part Thalor are Altmer themselves, but they do not speak for the views of enitire race. That what I tried saying too in my last post...among other things.

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    • Arkay once a human then becomes an aedra , if such things can happen why can't it happen again. Plus there are many proof of his godhood like Wulf , blessings comes from his shrines ,and also a blood of an aedra quest in Oblivion questline , you folks who don't believe his godhood are blind or deft ?

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    • talos is a divine however he does not deserve to be one

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    • Hbxn wrote:
      Arkay once a human then becomes an aedra , if such things can happen why can't it happen again. Plus there are many proof of his godhood like Wulf , blessings comes from his shrines ,and also a blood of an aedra quest in Oblivion questline , you folks who don't believe his godhood are blind or deft ?

      Arkay's story is just a legend.

      He is a god. He doesn't deserve to be one, though.

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    • Jdarkdorsett wrote:
      Also for all you Oblivion fans and those who actually want your dragon shouts to work well you prayed to a shrine of Talos. And guess what? It actually worked!! Wow!!!!!! I wonder why? Maybe gods are not the collective wishes and beliefs of enough people through their psyche!! Furthemore to gain the the gear in the Knights of the Nine, you needed to pray to Talos and it worked. Therefore with all these facts from this post and above Talos is a god. I don't care what high elf loving fanatic whants to argue with that but you can't just say 'Oh the Aldemeri must know what their saying, nevermind that every other race do not think them as highly as they themselves do. Nevermind that they are actually more vunerable to fire and ice in Oblivion that the othe "inferior" races, so that means being weaker to fire and ice is perfection.'

      The god Talos as we know him may not be what we think he is.  All Daedric Princes communicate with people of importance (i.e. the Dragonborn) to claim them as their Champion.  Yet we do not hear a peep from Talos throughout the entirety of Skyrim.  Pehaps Talos is just a sick joke by another Prince and they obliterated Tiber Septim's soul to maintain plausible deniability.  Either way, we can infer one of three things:

      A) Talos doesn't see Nim as fit for his attention.

      B) Talos is a captive to another Prince.

      C) Talos is just a prank played on the Nords by another Prince, most likely Sheogorath.

      Believe what you wish, but, logically, nothing on the mortal plane of existence can ascend to godhood, be it Altmer, Dunmer, Bosmer, Dwemer, Orsimer, Breton, Nord, Redguard, Khajiit, Imperial, or Argonian.  In any case, we must know the truth in case Sheogorath decides to tell the Nords "Gotcha!"

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    • 198.174.0.11 wrote:
      Jdarkdorsett wrote:
      Also for all you Oblivion fans and those who actually want your dragon shouts to work well you prayed to a shrine of Talos. And guess what? It actually worked!! Wow!!!!!! I wonder why? Maybe gods are not the collective wishes and beliefs of enough people through their psyche!! Furthemore to gain the the gear in the Knights of the Nine, you needed to pray to Talos and it worked. Therefore with all these facts from this post and above Talos is a god. I don't care what high elf loving fanatic whants to argue with that but you can't just say 'Oh the Aldemeri must know what their saying, nevermind that every other race do not think them as highly as they themselves do. Nevermind that they are actually more vunerable to fire and ice in Oblivion that the othe "inferior" races, so that means being weaker to fire and ice is perfection.'
      The god Talos as we know him may not be what we think he is.  All Daedric Princes communicate with people of importance (i.e. the Dragonborn) to claim them as their Champion.  Yet we do not hear a peep from Talos throughout the entirety of Skyrim.  Pehaps Talos is just a sick joke by another Prince and they obliterated Tiber Septim's soul to maintain plausible deniability.  Either way, we can infer one of three things:

      A) Talos doesn't see Nim as fit for his attention.

      B) Talos is a captive to another Prince.

      C) Talos is just a prank played on the Nords by another Prince, most likely Sheogorath.

      Believe what you wish, but, logically, nothing on the mortal plane of existence can ascend to godhood, be it Altmer, Dunmer, Bosmer, Dwemer, Orsimer, Breton, Nord, Redguard, Khajiit, Imperial, or Argonian.  In any case, we must know the truth in case Sheogorath decides to tell the Nords "Gotcha!"

      Do you ever see any of the other Aedra try to communicate with you in game... no? I guess that means that either all the Aedra have been captured by daedra or they are all dead right.

      You obviously know very little about the Aedra as they no longer have the power to manifest themselves on Nirn anymore.

      Talos is definately a divine, there is no questioning that.

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    • 198.174.0.11 wrote:
      Jdarkdorsett wrote:
      Also for all you Oblivion fans and those who actually want your dragon shouts to work well you prayed to a shrine of Talos. And guess what? It actually worked!! Wow!!!!!! I wonder why? Maybe gods are not the collective wishes and beliefs of enough people through their psyche!! Furthemore to gain the the gear in the Knights of the Nine, you needed to pray to Talos and it worked. Therefore with all these facts from this post and above Talos is a god. I don't care what high elf loving fanatic whants to argue with that but you can't just say 'Oh the Aldemeri must know what their saying, nevermind that every other race do not think them as highly as they themselves do. Nevermind that they are actually more vunerable to fire and ice in Oblivion that the othe "inferior" races, so that means being weaker to fire and ice is perfection.'
      The god Talos as we know him may not be what we think he is.  All Daedric Princes communicate with people of importance (i.e. the Dragonborn) to claim them as their Champion.  Yet we do not hear a peep from Talos throughout the entirety of Skyrim.  Pehaps Talos is just a sick joke by another Prince and they obliterated Tiber Septim's soul to maintain plausible deniability.  Either way, we can infer one of three things:

      A) Talos doesn't see Nim as fit for his attention.

      B) Talos is a captive to another Prince.

      C) Talos is just a prank played on the Nords by another Prince, most likely Sheogorath.

      Believe what you wish, but, logically, nothing on the mortal plane of existence can ascend to godhood, be it Altmer, Dunmer, Bosmer, Dwemer, Orsimer, Breton, Nord, Redguard, Khajiit, Imperial, or Argonian.  In any case, we must know the truth in case Sheogorath decides to tell the Nords "Gotcha!"

      Well if we believe what you said, that would mean that every divine are a prank or what's not. It's not just the Talos, it's every other divines, they don't belive that they should deal in mortal affairs directly, that is why none of the divines had been down to Mondus ever since the defeat of Lorkhan. Deadric Princes on the other hand, always interfear with affairs of mortals, they even claim Tamriel and Nirn to be a part of their realms of Oblivion, even though they didn't lift a finger to create Mondus. It was the work of Aedra and now Daedric princes lay claims to their creation. So your point that Talos is just something created by Deadric Princes to confuse men, just because he doesn't interract with player directly is invalid, since that would be the same for another eight. As far as I know, Akatosh is the only one to come back to Tamriel after defeat of Lorkhan and that wasn't even his true form, but an avatar of his; Martin Septim turned fiery dragon. Talos isn't different from any other divines in that sence.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      198.174.0.11 wrote:
      Jdarkdorsett wrote:
      Also for all you Oblivion fans and those who actually want your dragon shouts to work well you prayed to a shrine of Talos. And guess what? It actually worked!! Wow!!!!!! I wonder why? Maybe gods are not the collective wishes and beliefs of enough people through their psyche!! Furthemore to gain the the gear in the Knights of the Nine, you needed to pray to Talos and it worked. Therefore with all these facts from this post and above Talos is a god. I don't care what high elf loving fanatic whants to argue with that but you can't just say 'Oh the Aldemeri must know what their saying, nevermind that every other race do not think them as highly as they themselves do. Nevermind that they are actually more vunerable to fire and ice in Oblivion that the othe "inferior" races, so that means being weaker to fire and ice is perfection.'
      The god Talos as we know him may not be what we think he is.  All Daedric Princes communicate with people of importance (i.e. the Dragonborn) to claim them as their Champion.  Yet we do not hear a peep from Talos throughout the entirety of Skyrim.  Pehaps Talos is just a sick joke by another Prince and they obliterated Tiber Septim's soul to maintain plausible deniability.  Either way, we can infer one of three things:

      A) Talos doesn't see Nim as fit for his attention.

      B) Talos is a captive to another Prince.

      C) Talos is just a prank played on the Nords by another Prince, most likely Sheogorath.

      Believe what you wish, but, logically, nothing on the mortal plane of existence can ascend to godhood, be it Altmer, Dunmer, Bosmer, Dwemer, Orsimer, Breton, Nord, Redguard, Khajiit, Imperial, or Argonian.  In any case, we must know the truth in case Sheogorath decides to tell the Nords "Gotcha!"

      Well if we believe what you said, that would mean that every divine are a prank or what's not. It's not just the Talos, it's every other divines, they don't belive that they should deal in mortal affairs directly, that is why none of the divines had been down to Mondus ever since the defeat of Lorkhan. Deadric Princes on the other hand, always interfear with affairs of mortals, they even claim Tamriel and Nirn to be a part of their realms of Oblivion, even though they didn't lift a finger to create Mondus. It was the work of Aedra and now Daedric princes lay claims to their creation. So your point that Talos is just something created by Deadric Princes to confuse men, just because he doesn't interract with player directly is invalid, since that would be the same for another eight. As far as I know, Akatosh is the only one to come back to Tamriel after defeat of Lorkhan and that wasn't even his true form, but an avatar of his; Martin Septim turned fiery dragon. Talos isn't different from any other divines in that sence.


      Talos is an Aedra!?

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    • 198.174.0.11 wrote:
      Legate Alexandros wrote:
      198.174.0.11 wrote:
      Jdarkdorsett wrote:
      Also for all you Oblivion fans and those who actually want your dragon shouts to work well you prayed to a shrine of Talos. And guess what? It actually worked!! Wow!!!!!! I wonder why? Maybe gods are not the collective wishes and beliefs of enough people through their psyche!! Furthemore to gain the the gear in the Knights of the Nine, you needed to pray to Talos and it worked. Therefore with all these facts from this post and above Talos is a god. I don't care what high elf loving fanatic whants to argue with that but you can't just say 'Oh the Aldemeri must know what their saying, nevermind that every other race do not think them as highly as they themselves do. Nevermind that they are actually more vunerable to fire and ice in Oblivion that the othe "inferior" races, so that means being weaker to fire and ice is perfection.'
      The god Talos as we know him may not be what we think he is.  All Daedric Princes communicate with people of importance (i.e. the Dragonborn) to claim them as their Champion.  Yet we do not hear a peep from Talos throughout the entirety of Skyrim.  Pehaps Talos is just a sick joke by another Prince and they obliterated Tiber Septim's soul to maintain plausible deniability.  Either way, we can infer one of three things:
      A) Talos doesn't see Nim as fit for his attention.

      B) Talos is a captive to another Prince.

      C) Talos is just a prank played on the Nords by another Prince, most likely Sheogorath.

      Believe what you wish, but, logically, nothing on the mortal plane of existence can ascend to godhood, be it Altmer, Dunmer, Bosmer, Dwemer, Orsimer, Breton, Nord, Redguard, Khajiit, Imperial, or Argonian.  In any case, we must know the truth in case Sheogorath decides to tell the Nords "Gotcha!"

      Well if we believe what you said, that would mean that every divine are a prank or what's not. It's not just the Talos, it's every other divines, they don't belive that they should deal in mortal affairs directly, that is why none of the divines had been down to Mondus ever since the defeat of Lorkhan. Deadric Princes on the other hand, always interfear with affairs of mortals, they even claim Tamriel and Nirn to be a part of their realms of Oblivion, even though they didn't lift a finger to create Mondus. It was the work of Aedra and now Daedric princes lay claims to their creation. So your point that Talos is just something created by Deadric Princes to confuse men, just because he doesn't interract with player directly is invalid, since that would be the same for another eight. As far as I know, Akatosh is the only one to come back to Tamriel after defeat of Lorkhan and that wasn't even his true form, but an avatar of his; Martin Septim turned fiery dragon. Talos isn't different from any other divines in that sence.

      Talos is an Aedra!?

      Technically yes.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      198.174.0.11 wrote:
      Legate Alexandros wrote:
      198.174.0.11 wrote:
      Jdarkdorsett wrote:
      Also for all you Oblivion fans and those who actually want your dragon shouts to work well you prayed to a shrine of Talos. And guess what? It actually worked!! Wow!!!!!! I wonder why? Maybe gods are not the collective wishes and beliefs of enough people through their psyche!! Furthemore to gain the the gear in the Knights of the Nine, you needed to pray to Talos and it worked. Therefore with all these facts from this post and above Talos is a god. I don't care what high elf loving fanatic whants to argue with that but you can't just say 'Oh the Aldemeri must know what their saying, nevermind that every other race do not think them as highly as they themselves do. Nevermind that they are actually more vunerable to fire and ice in Oblivion that the othe "inferior" races, so that means being weaker to fire and ice is perfection.'
      The god Talos as we know him may not be what we think he is.  All Daedric Princes communicate with people of importance (i.e. the Dragonborn) to claim them as their Champion.  Yet we do not hear a peep from Talos throughout the entirety of Skyrim.  Pehaps Talos is just a sick joke by another Prince and they obliterated Tiber Septim's soul to maintain plausible deniability.  Either way, we can infer one of three things:
      A) Talos doesn't see Nim as fit for his attention.

      B) Talos is a captive to another Prince.

      C) Talos is just a prank played on the Nords by another Prince, most likely Sheogorath.

      Believe what you wish, but, logically, nothing on the mortal plane of existence can ascend to godhood, be it Altmer, Dunmer, Bosmer, Dwemer, Orsimer, Breton, Nord, Redguard, Khajiit, Imperial, or Argonian.  In any case, we must know the truth in case Sheogorath decides to tell the Nords "Gotcha!"

      Well if we believe what you said, that would mean that every divine are a prank or what's not. It's not just the Talos, it's every other divines, they don't belive that they should deal in mortal affairs directly, that is why none of the divines had been down to Mondus ever since the defeat of Lorkhan. Deadric Princes on the other hand, always interfear with affairs of mortals, they even claim Tamriel and Nirn to be a part of their realms of Oblivion, even though they didn't lift a finger to create Mondus. It was the work of Aedra and now Daedric princes lay claims to their creation. So your point that Talos is just something created by Deadric Princes to confuse men, just because he doesn't interract with player directly is invalid, since that would be the same for another eight. As far as I know, Akatosh is the only one to come back to Tamriel after defeat of Lorkhan and that wasn't even his true form, but an avatar of his; Martin Septim turned fiery dragon. Talos isn't different from any other divines in that sence.

      Talos is an Aedra!?
      Technically yes.

      I thought he was a Daedra.  My bad.

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    • Pickleseller wrote:
      Hbxn wrote:
      Arkay once a human then becomes an aedra , if such things can happen why can't it happen again. Plus there are many proof of his godhood like Wulf , blessings comes from his shrines ,and also a blood of an aedra quest in Oblivion questline , you folks who don't believe his godhood are blind or deft ?
      Arkay's story is just a legend.

      He is a god. He doesn't deserve to be one, though.

      dragons , unicorns , gauldur amulet , brush of true paint , headless horseman , werewolves  they're all onced believed to be legends , but it turns out i've found them all..... .And how'd you know if Arkays story doesn't exist , i know you're just makin this up to make me don't believe the godhood of the fictional character ,Talos.

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    • Are Aedra and Divines the same thing?

      Aren't Aedra the Gods that took part in the creation of Nirn? E.g. Auri-El, Lorkhan

      Are the Divines the same thing?

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    • Lord Hadron wrote:
      Are Aedra and Divines the same thing?

      Aren't Aedra the Gods that took part in the creation of Nirn? E.g. Auri-El, Lorkhan

      Are the Divines the same thing?

      Your right actually, just looked it up. Talos is not an Aedra but he is definately a divine.

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    • LORD HADRoN :

      1.Yes , except talos which status as an Aedra haven't been perfectly revealed

      2.Yes , but Lorkhan turns out to betrays his aedra comrades and then his fellow aedra took his heart thus removes his powers (amount of powers that're taken aren't yet known) and shor becomes a fallen god , but still he's still being respected by the nords as the creator of men

      3.What'd you mean?

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    • Lord Hadron wrote:

      Aren't Aedra the Gods that took part in the creation of Nirn? E.g. Auri-El, Lorkhan

      Aedra are the spirits who gave parts of themselves to the creation of Mundus.

      Lorkhan is not an Aedra, as he gave nothing, he is not bound to the mortal plane like the others.

      Talos is not an Aedra either, as he gave nothing of himself to the creation of Mundus, and is thus not bound to it either.


      Aedra: Spirits who partook in the creation of Mundus and died after giving  themselves to it. 8 of the Aedra became the divines, many became the mortal races, and many more became the laws of reality, the earthbones.

      Daedra: The spirits who chose not to take part in creation, they retain their full power because they gave none of themselves up.

      Magne-Ge: The Spirits who fled creation along with Magnus and now live in Atherius.

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    • Talos is no god, he was an emperor. Uriel Septim was a great emperor, but did he become a god? Talos was and is still, a man. He did not take part in Nirn's creation. No man, no matter how important, can become a god. The Thalmor have my support.

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    • 67.242.90.204 wrote:
      Talos is no god, he was an emperor. Uriel Septim was a great emperor, but did he become a god? Talos was and is still, a man. He did not take part in Nirn's creation. No man, no matter how important, can become a god. The Thalmor have my support.

      Do I have to explain this shit to another person ಠ_ಠ


      Alright when Tiber Septim was emperor he had two advisors, Wulfharth, and  Zurin Arctus. Tiber and Arctus realized that the only way to power the Numidium required part of Shor's soul. Knowing that Wulfharth was a Shezarrine ( http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shezarrine ) Tiber ordered Zurin to attach Wulfharth's soul to a soul gem known as the mantella to power the Numidium. Tiber and Arctus led Wulfharth into a trap capturing his soul and killing Wulfharth who killed Arctus just before dying. Wulfharth being a demigod (or god not sure) was still able to revive Zurin Arctus's body and use it as a lich, this made a new being known as the Underking who had the minds of both individuals.

      Now Tiber Septim has the Numidium and is using it to conqueror Tamriel, unknowingly the power of Shor's soul had been seeping into him through the device (this may have made him a Shezarrine or he could have been a Shezarrine the whole time, though it definately made him more powerful). Also at this time Tiber became one of the few people in existence to ever use CHIM ( http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:CHIM )  (which may have also had something to do with his diefication).

      Long after Tiber died, the Underking seeked out Wulfharth's soul that was still stuck in the mantella. The Hero of Daggerfall gave him the soul during the Warp in the West which gave Arctus and Wulharth the ability to die. When this happened though, their souls mixed with Tiber Septim's soul creating a super Shezarrine oversoul. This soul was so identical to Shor himself that the trio were able to mantle Shor on the divine pantheon.


      I'm not even going to explain why the Thalmor is basically an elf Nazi party. You can easily find that out yourself.

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    • What I really wonder is how many of those people who are denying that Talos is god, really know the lore. Or they are doing that just to Troll around.

      Also, being or not a god to certain group, doesn't have to mean that they were or not involved in creation.

      Look ad Dunmer, they belive in true Tribunal. Azura, Boethia, and Mephala; none of those three took part in creation. The reason why thy called Daedra is because they are not the ancestors of mortals. Some of them consider Tamriel part of their Oblivion realm, even though they done nothing to create Nirn. Yet many prefer to worship Daedra as their gods, rather then Aedra.

      I am not saying that those who worship tribunal are stupid an all, although in my opinion only Azura is worthy of worship. She of the three actually cares about her followers, also she might not have taken part in creating Nirn, but if I am not mistaken she have created Kjajit. Not to mention she cursed Chimer, by turning them into Dunmer, only because three selfish Chimer had decided that they will get godhood and will make entire race turn away from the true tribunal.

      And I am also tired of explaining how exactly Talos had become the god, but do read what Dovahesbrom said, unless you are too closeminded and fixed only on your opinion and spreading Thalmor Propaganda. If everyone would share your opinion, Nirn would be doomed indeed.

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    • SajuukKhar wrote:
      Lord Hadron wrote:

      Aren't Aedra the Gods that took part in the creation of Nirn? E.g. Auri-El, Lorkhan

      Aedra are the spirits who gave parts of themselves to the creation of Mundus.

      Lorkhan is not an Aedra, as he gave nothing, he is not bound to the mortal plane like the others.

      Talos is not an Aedra either, as he gave nothing of himself to the creation of Mundus, and is thus not bound to it either.


      Aedra: Spirits who partook in the creation of Mundus and died after giving  themselves to it. 8 of the Aedra became the divines, many became the mortal races, and many more became the laws of reality, the earthbones.

      Daedra: The spirits who chose not to take part in creation, they retain their full power because they gave none of themselves up.

      Magne-Ge: The Spirits who fled creation along with Magnus and now live in Atherius.

      Well I am not sure if causing the process of creation process to begin with, is not giving anything to creation. But one thing for certain, Lorkhan/Shor was the brother of Auri-el/Akatosh. Some even belive that they are one and the same and that Akatosh killed himself as Auri-el and shot his own heart out somehow. I personaly, believe that Akatosh and Shor were brothers. Also, I am not sure if Shor have anything to do with creation of mortal men, but I do know that he was a husband of Kyne, who is considered to be the mother of Nords/Atmorans, and perhaps even all the original races of men.

      Those facts might mean that he was in fact the Aedra, just like everyone else who created Nirn. Even if those 8 or 7 Aedra did took place in creation of Nirn and he did not, they didn't like what they created. Lorkhan/Shor on the other hand did like the Nirn and did all he could to protect it from Aedra who didn't like the fact that he made them create that.

      I don't know haw many of you here are men, but don't you see? Shor is the greatest champion of men, the original Aedra who mer belive took place in creation, didn't really cared much about men. I belive they finally dealt with existance of men, when Stenddar/Sthun had ransomed them. But appearantly now Thalmor think that they are obsticle in their achivement of divinity, but before they can take care of their men problem, they have to get rid of a new champion of men in Autherius, Talos.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Those facts might mean that he was in fact the Aedra,

      No, it means he was an et'ada who had his hands in the creation of Mundus.

      Just as Molag Bal and Hircine, both borthers to the Aedra, as all spirits are related, created Vampires and Lycanthropes, does not make them Aedra.

      It just makes them spirits who created stuff in Mundus, but not Mundus itself.

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    • What would you say to the statement from Lorkhan's wiki article?

      Lorkhan is one of the divine Aedra, and the one most directly responsible for the existence of Nirn.

      According to legend, Lorkhan died long ago, giving his life to create Nirn. As such, he has not had much direct influence over events of the Third Era, though he was indirectly responsible for at least three major near-disasters in the last decades of the Third Era, and his remains are connected to the disappearance of the Dwemer.

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    • Shor is once the mightiest of the gods but then  he's scuffled by his fellow friends (because a bad reason of course) , wow i guess Jyggalag's havin a symphaty for him.....

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    • Indeed, especially since Jygolag, even though is a Deadric Prince, considered Anuic, meaning that he is a lot like Aedara. Just like Miridia, Azura and Nocturnal. Malacath was actually Aedra once, the very Aedra that said to actually defeated Lorkhan/Shor, when he was Trinimac. The diference between Anuic and Padomaic beings (besides the obvious), is that Anuic capable of both good and evil as they were made of the mixture of Anu's and Padomay's blood, while those that were made only of Padomay's blood are only capable of evil. That's raises the question though, are all Deadric Princes were made just by Padomay, or somehow, they got those that would be considered same as Aedra in their rank? (Meaning that they were made with both the blood of Anu and Padomay)

      Furthermor, all mortals call those that were involved in their creation Aedra, their ancestors. Seemingly how most if not all Aedra were Anuic, it is perhaps safe to say that Anuic beingns were responsible for creating Mondus and all that dwells in it. That would also explain the Khajit's belief that Lady Azura made them, since she quite likely the same as Aedra since she's Anuic, she just happened to be somehow a Deadric Prince, even though she is not Padomaic.

      Finally, the statement that Molag Bal, Clavicus Vile and Hircine made vampires and men beasts, but cannot be considered creators for that creation. This doesn't quite solves the problem of Lorkhan/Shor being involved in creation or not. You see, those three hadn't really, exactly created anything. Those three, just meddled in someone else's creation, which is not the same as creating. Aedra, already created all that lives on Nirn, but Molag Bal, Clavicus Vile and Hircine wanted a part of that too. So they tempted some with promise of power, the few who for any reason were not happy with the way they are, or just happened to be a devote folowers of one of the Daedric Princes. In the end, those vere changed by those Princes into something vile and unnatuaral like vampires and men beasts. So you cannot really call that creating anything, if anything it is using someone else's creation to make what you want out of it. Aedra should be suing those three for copy rights. Oh and in case you don't know, Clavicus Vile is responsible for giving vampirism in Cyrodil, while Molag Bal seems to be responsible for vampirism in Skyrim. I have no idea though, why in Skyrim the desease called Sanguine Vampirism. I don't think Lord of Deboshiry and Sin have anything to do with Skyrim vampires. Except maybe because they were all drunk when they were TURNED. I make an epheses on TURNED, because that what it was not made. Deadric Princes responsible for Vampirism and Lycanthropy were never creators, so you should not compare that to those who really were involved in creation of living things on Nirn and Mondus!

      I hope I made myself clear, please do take your time to read and understand, not dissmiss it because it doesn't agree with your views. Everyone entitled to their opinion, but they also entitled to giving a valid reason why they feel this way and that cannot be ignored. 

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    • Oh and here's something I found on Google, might be a little light hearted, but I couldn't resist including this here.

      [image removed]

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    • Is Jyggalag actually an evil Daedra?

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    • Lord Hadron wrote:
      Is Jyggalag actually an evil Daedra?

      He follows a very strict form of order, sort of like an ultra control freak. So yes I would say he is technically evil.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      What would you say to the statement from Lorkhan's wiki article?

      That it is very poorly written and wrong, much like a large number of articles on this wiki.

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    • What is your version then? Besides, I haven't noticed that article as being marked as incomplete and there is a lot more to it then just that. If you belive you know the truths, why not edit the article, so that everyone whould know the truth. Although I am not sure those who actually know the lore would agree with you. Not everything you edit stays that way.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      What is your version then?

      The version used by UESP and The Imperial Library.

      Lorkhan as a spirit, the son of Sithis, who convinced OTHER spirits, the Aedra, to give up pats of themselves to create the mortal realm, after which, they killed Lokrhan, and flung his heart to Mundus.

      Aedra is an Aldmeri word meaning "our ancestors" it refers to those who gave themselves to creation, Lokhan did not, he is not an Aedra, he is not counted as an Ancestor by the Aldmeri or their splinter races.

      Lorkhan is just a spirit, an et'ada, as he did not give himself up to creation, and thus is not an Aedra, he didn't chose to not partispiate in creation, thus he is not a Daedra, and he did not flee from creation, thus is not a Mange-Ge.

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    • Is that the only and true version? You have to remember that each race views it differently and it would seem to me that this version that used by UESP and The Imperial Library is from Altmer point of view, where Lorkhan is a trickster that had to be killed. They probably also mention the views of men and other mers on Lorkhan/Shor.

      Come to think of it, how do we really know if Altmer or men right in their view of Lorkhan. For men Shor was a great hero who gave his life for existance of men. To most mer Lorkhan was a trickster who made them create what they didn't want, so they killed him. Dunmer view Lorkhan a little different from other mer, they believe that their mortality is a test of their endurance that was given to them by Lorkhan. How do we know who's outlook is right? Or Imperial Library actually says that that one and the only truths.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Is that the only and true version? You have to remember that each race views it differently and it would seem to me that this version that used by UESP and The Imperial Library is from Altmer point of view, where Lorkhan is a trickster that had to be killed. They probably also mention the views of men and other mers on Lorkhan/Shor.

      No, this is both the Man and Mer views.

      The religions of both Men and Mer state Lorkhan got the Aedra togeather, made Mundus, and then died.

      The Mer believe he was killed as punishment for tricking the Aedra, and Men believe he died so that Mundus could exist without the direct presence of the divines, and to show them how to not fail as finding ascension. Men believe the Aedra knew what would happen to them, and were cool with it.

      Him being a trickster or not, or why his heart was removed, changes nothing about if he did or didn't gave part of himself to creation, which he didn't, which would define if he was an Aedra or not.

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    • It was said that after Shor make the aedras pissed , Auri-el / Akatosh selected the forces of mer to fight along his side against Shor's army of men , the men looses and their leaders heart was taken off , so the reign of the elves began until it was ended when talos the dragonborn rises with the guidance of the avatar of shor a.k.a. wulfharth and the intelect of zurin arctus his battlemage.Now the aldmeri dominion which has been destroyed by the emperor rises once more after the last line of tiber septim , martin septim past. the aldmeri dominions objective is nothing more but to dominate tamriel once more.

      so i suggest that the last dragonborn started the qonquest to become the emperor to stop this aldmeri mess and i'm sure it's way fuckin better than enjoying building house and having fake kids on hearthfire or sightseeing skyrims (which have been watched thousands of times) beautiful mountains.

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    • Yet Almalexia, Vivec, and Sotha Sil were able to turn themselves into living gods after touching heart of Lorkhan. Or have they just made them into divine spirits by doing so? Oh and the fact that Lorkhan/Shor was the son of Sithis/Padomay, doesn't necessary makes him a Daedra by the way. Technically all of the Aedra were children of Sithis as well as All Maker, Daedra on the other hand are children of Sithis alone. Seemingly how usually, Lorkhan is descrbed as brother of Auriel, we can assume that he was not a Daedra made only by Sithis.

      I am still trying to located the Lorkhan article in Imperial Library, but here is Talos article that I found there that definetly puts Talos as one of the divines. By the way, if you haven't noticed this topic changed from "Is Talos a god?" into "Is Shor/Lorkhan a god?" which is not too diferent. A little off topic, but recently I've apreached Heimskr in Whiterun and asked him to tell me about Talos and he clearly belives that Talos was in life a Nord with immense strengh. That contradicts most people views on Talos really being Breton. However, he did become Ysmir and before him Wulfhearth was Ysmir and Wulfhearth of Atmora was practically a Nord. Atmorans were the same people as Nords, they just came from Atmora. After Ysgramor, for about 12 generations of High Kings, the new lands in Mereth or Tamriel were still considered part of Atmora. High King Harald, the 13th King of Ysgramor Dynasty officially declared Skyrim an independent Kingdom from Atmora. The people who lived in Skyrim became known as Nords, even though for the most part there probably were Atmorans within their mist still. In time there were no people born in Atmora left in Skyrim. But enough with that.

      http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nine-divines-talos

      Here's that article from Imperial Library I was talking about.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote: Yet Almalexia, Vivec, and Sotha Sil were able to turn themselves into living gods after touching heart of Lorkhan. Or have they just made them into divine spirits by doing so?

      You can be a god and not be an Aedra, and you can be a divine without being an Aedra.

      Oh and the fact that Lorkhan/Shor was the son of Sithis/Padomay, doesn't necessary makes him a Daedra by the way. Technically all of the Aedra were children of Sithis as well as All Maker, Daedra on the other hand are children of Sithis alone.

      That is incorrect. The only spirits that are children of a specific higher being are Akatosh and Lorkhan, all other spirits forms from the interplay of Anuiel and Sithis, and are the children of both. The deadra are not only Sithis's children, they are merely the spirits who sided with Sithis, and the forces of change. Just as the Aedra are not only Anu's children, they are merely the spirits who side with Anu, and the forces of stasis.

      Seemingly how usually, Lorkhan is descrbed as brother of Auriel, we can assume that he was not a Daedra made only by Sithis.

      I think you meant Lorkhan is the brother of Akatosh. Also, Akatosh IS Lorkhan, Anuiel is Sithis, and Anu is Padhome. So, Lorkhan was made by Sithis and Anuiel, but since they are the same thing, he only has one parent, Sithis who is Anuiel.

      I am still trying to located the Lorkhan article in Imperial Library, but here is Talos article that I found there that definetly puts Talos as one of the divines.

      You can be a god, and a divine, without being an Aedra. That Imperial Library article really doesn't prove anything.

      A little off topic, but recently I've apreached Heimskr in Whiterun and asked him to tell me about Talos and he clearly belives that Talos was in life a Nord with immense strengh. That contradicts most people views on Talos really being Breton.

      That's because of Imperial propaganda and historical revisionism by The Septim Empire. Much in the same way that the "all men are from Atmora" bit is a lie by The Septim Empire.

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    • I though you said that Imperial Library sources to be trusted? Also, isn't Akatosh the same as Auri-el, Auriel and Alkosh? Isn't in the begining it was only Anu/All Maker and Padomay/Sithis in the begining place? Then Padomay started the interplay that resulted in creation of everything, but Mondus? I guess it's a bit confusing, just when I though I got the original creation right and creation of Mondus.

      Okey so we get that you can be a god without being Aedra, but does that mean that certain gods like Arkey and Talos don't deserve to be up in Autherius with other divines who are in fact the Aedra? Some people here take Thalmor side of the argument and believe that Talos have no buisiness being a devine, Aedra or not, being Shor's replacement or not.

      Maybe Shor/Lorkhan not an Aedra (our ancestor) but I don't think he's a Daedra either (not our ancestor). The way I see it, he invisioned a great world where creations of other divines would live. So he orchestrated the creation of Mondus, by convincing other divines into using their power to create it. He thought that Mondus was beutiful, other divines who actually did the creation didn't think so. They killed him just for having them create Mondus and the other god along with him, that we know as Tsun. He might not have used his own divinity to create Mondus, but if he didn't decide to convince other divines to make Mondus, there wouldn't be Nirn, Tamriel or Elder Scrolls. I think he had suffered enough and he deserves a bit more credit. Besides, he wasn't unlike his father Sithis, who also didn't exactly create anything, but he caused the conflict that resulted in creation of spirit realm. Yet I belive there are a lot more of those that reveare Sithis for the fact that he caused creation of Autherius and Void, not for the fact that he actually created it himself. Although according to you, it's irrelavant since it seems that your sourses state that Sithis and Anuel, Anu and Padomay were not brothers but one and the same thing, just conflicting parts of each other. Just like Akatosh and Lorkhan, according to the same reasoning one and the same, even though one technically kills the other.

      Anyways I found something on Shor in Imperial Library, and excert from Nordic Mythology, not sure if it proves Shor being an Aedra, probably not. However, it does seem to mention that Nords of old had a little different outlook on Shor from their Imperial cousins and way different from mer, naturaly.

      Shor - God of Creation, War and Glorious Death

      The Nords treat Shor as a true god, not the watered down Shezarr of Imperial religious fashion, nor the Elven insult Lorkhan. King of the Nordic Gods and husband of Kyne, it was Shor who was the primary instigator behind the construction of Nirn. Some of the Aldmeri Gods, led by Trinimac and Auri-el, were outraged that they had given up so much of their power in the creation of Nirn that they loosed their fury at Shor, starting the War of Manifest Metaphors. Shor was slain and Trinimac tore out his heart, casting it into the sea where the Red Mountain grew around it. Shor's existence continued however, though seperated from his divine spark he influenced and helped the evolution of human civilization. He has also been sung back into the world at certain points in history, such as at the Battle at Red Mountain, where he led a vast army in a failed attempt to reclaim his Heart from the Chimer and Dwemer. Shor's abode is the great Hall of Valor, in the Aetheric realm of Sovngarde. All Nords who prove themselves in battle or die a glorious death are welcome to Shor's Hall in the afterlife.

      Also, not all men are from Atmora, but I find it more credible that original men of Tamriel came from Atmora. Atmorans if you will evolved into Nord, even though I belive they are one and the same. Nords later branched into Bretons and Imperials, those had become original men of Tamriel. At the same time on Yokuda, there were Yokudans or what we call Redguards and in Akavir there were Akaviri or Tsaethi(sp?). The way I see it, men lived on three continents before, however Tamriel was inhabited by Mer. People from Atmora seemed to have been the first men to venture to Tamriel. Sometime later, Redguards came from destroyed Yokuda. Akaviri people were the last to try to come to Tamriel, but that didn't work out. Also, it is hard to say if Akavir people were really men, or reptilian hybrids. As it seems, that race went extinct, or we just don't know anything about them. They are often described as snake people and judging from Akaviri Potentates, they seemed to have a longer life span then other men. Ofcourse, I might not even know what I am talking about here, but I still respect you, even though it seems that you are being a bit hypocritical about sources best to use.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      The way I see it, he invisioned a great world where creations of other divines would live. So he orchestrated the creation of Mondus, by convincing other divines into using their power to create it. He thought that Mondus was beutiful, other divines who actually did the creation didn't think so. They killed him just for having them create Mondus and the other god along with him, that we know as Tsun.

      According to Vivec, Lorkhan was the first being ever to use CHIM. The reason why Lorkhan came up with the idea to build Mundus was because Mundus was supposed to be the "Tower at the hub of the Wheel" which would allow all the other gods to understand CHIM.

      Obviously he failed.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote: I though you said that Imperial Library sources to be trusted?

      Yes it is, and as I pointed out Aedra =/= Divine =/= God. So the article is still correct.

      Also, isn't Akatosh the same as Auri-el, Auriel and Alkosh?

      Both yes and no, all of them are the time dragon, but each of them are different parts of the time dragon as molded by different mortal groups.

      Isn't in the begining it was only Anu/All Maker and Padomay/Sithis in the begining place? Then Padomay started the interplay that resulted in creation of everything, but Mondus?

      Yes, that is correct. Originally there was only Anu/Anuiel and Padomay/Sithis. Then Padomay messed with Anu, creating Atherius, Oblivion, and all the spirits, excpet the first two, Akatosh and Lorkhan, who were created by Anuiel and Sithis specifically, and individually.

      Okey so we get that you can be a god without being Aedra, but does that mean that certain gods like Arkey and Talos don't deserve to be up in Autherius with other divines who are in fact the Aedra? Some people here take Thalmor side of the argument and believe that Talos have no buisiness being a devine, Aedra or not, being Shor's replacement or not.

      Arkay is not like Talos, the story of Arkay being a mortal are myth. Arkay is an original founding spirit like the other Aedra. As for if Talos is "deserving", the only thing that makes one deserving of being a god is if people want to worship you as such.

      Maybe Shor/Lorkhan not an Aedra (our ancestor) but I don't think he's a Daedra either (not our ancestor).

      You would be correct. Lorkhan is neither a Daedra, or an Aedra, he is simply an et'ada, an original spirit.

      Also, not all men are from Atmora, but I find it more credible that original men of Tamriel came from Atmora

      According to Kurt Kuhlmann, one the lead designers of the TES games, the Nedic humans, those who would later interbreed with the Altmer of high rock to form the Bretons, and those who would later interbreed with the Nords to form the Imperials, were not from Atmora at all, they were native to Tamriel.

      On the origin of Nedes

      The usual Imperial arrogance. The hoary old "Out of Atmora" theory has been widely discredited (no reputable archaeologist would publicly support it these days), but the Imperial Geographers continue to beat the drum of the Nordic Fatherland in the best tradition of the Septim Empire. They seem to think that the imprimature of officialdom gives their outdated scholarship added weight -- which, unfortunately, it appears to in the eyes of the ever-gullible public which continues to snap up the latest Pocket Guides along with the rest of their Imperial Certified pablum. (HA)


      Dovahsebrom wrote: According to Vivec, Lorkhan was the first being ever to use CHIM. The reason why Lorkhan came up with the idea to build Mundus was because Mundus was supposed to be the "Tower at the hub of the Wheel" which would allow all the other gods to understand CHIM. Obviously he failed.

      Vehk's Teaching

      That helps little. What examples of the Psijic Endeavor exist today?

      The world you stand on is said to be the first attempt at chim. It is also admittedly the most famous. That it was choreographed by Lorkhan and ultimately failed is well-documented, but whether or not this failure was intentional is still disputed.

      Wait. Why would anyone want to purposely fail the process of CHIM?

      And this is the most-reached destination of all that embark upon this road. Why would Lorkhan and his (unwitting?) agents sabotage their experiments with the Tower? Why would he crumble that which he esteems?

      Perhaps he failed so you might know how not to.


      Also, Lorkhan wasn't the first being to use CHIM, he was the first to find out about it. He never actually obtained it himself, as he died to show other how to not fail to obtain it.

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    • Or all other gods turned out to be ignorant, stubborn heads who just didn't want to understand it and were all like, "Why did you make us do that, why?" Then they ripped out his heart and we know the rest. Although, I believe, Auriel held a council before hand, to decide what they will do with Lorkhan. Apperantly, masterminding creation of Mondus was an offense punishable by death within gods.

      So what do you think, did Lorkhan had the right idea and suffered for it unjustly? Or was he a trickster, who had no business making other divines to make Mondus and had to die by their hands for that?

      Personaly I do like the idea of Last Dragonborn becoming an Emperor, or a High King. I never minded the idea of feeling like a ruler. However, I know that many here stirckly against that as it would ruin a good character of Dragonborn and would also create conflicts in the next TES, since it would be awkward to put a mention of a new Dragonborn Emperor, who founded yet another Dragonborn Dynasty, and yet no one can agree on what race he or she was. It easier to do with ofsprings of such Dragonborn as they would be, whatever race their mother was for the most part.

      Although, I was thinking lately, all Olaf One Eyed had to do is to capture a Dragon to become new High King and end the war of succession. Our last Dragonborn, not only captures a Dragon, he or she kills scores of that while basically, another war of succession is going on. Don't you think it would give him or her the right to claim the crown of High King of Skyrim and thus stop the pointless civil war?

      Also, they needed to add a third option of not siding with any of two warring factions and still be able to end civil war. All they had to do, have the peace treaty at the throat of the World be lasting. However, nither sides get to gain any city, Skyrim just would be split in East and West. West would be under control of Imperials and Elisif, East under Stormcloaks and Ulfric. I am guessing Jarl Balgruf would have to become the leader of independent Hold of Whiterun then, to act like a buffer zone and a neutral party.

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    • Actually you can at least get both sides to sign a cease fire until after the dragon crisis is over.

      More to the point though, I think that Lorkhan's problem was that he didn't predict the other Aedras' reactions to losing a bunch of their power and got killed because of it. A bit anti climactic, but even gods can screw up. (he kind of struck me as a leap before you look type.)

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    • That's because of Imperial propaganda and historical revisionism by The Septim Empire. Much in the same way that the "all men are from Atmora" bit is a lie by The Septim Empire.

      how can you tell if it's a lie ?, my dear friend....

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:

      A little off topic, but recently I've apreached Heimskr in Whiterun and asked him to tell me about Talos and he clearly belives that Talos was in life a Nord with immense strengh. That contradicts most people views on Talos really being Breton.

      This is Barenziah's description of Tiber.

      He was only of middle height, half a head shorter than tall Symmachus, although he was well knit of figure and lithe in movement. He had a winning smile, bright, indeed piercing, blue eyes, and a full head of stark white hair above a lined and weathered face.


      His white (probably used to be blond) hair and blue eyes hints at Nordic ancestry, while his shorter height can point towards a different ancestry.

      Tiber Septim is most likely Nord-Breton.

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    • Indeed, that text that you brough up, could have been written as a biased source of information. Have you ever read the in game book called "Talos Mistake" where the author presents all of the reasons why Talos is not a god? That book clearly written as a biased text, where the author takes Thalmor's side of the Argument. He agrees that Talos was the great hero of emensed ability, but that alone doesn't make him a god, as no man can rise to godhood.

      According to the Thalmor, only mer have the ability to follow Auriel's example of returning back to Autherius, not the men or beasts. However, if I understand it right, Auriel's example was that anyone can return to Autherius, if they achieve a high degree of enlighenment. I don't think it means that only mer have that ability. Besides Thalmor needing to get rid of Talos to commense their plan of destrying Mondus, they also cannot stand that anyone worships a god that used to be a man. They probably believe that men and beasts are too inferior to them to achive godhood, that is why they exclude a possibiltiy of anyone but mer to become gods or any other divine beingns.

      My point is here, even if that text was writtent by lore writers, and is in Imperial Library, so was the "Talos Mistake". However, the goal of those texts was to show the view of one particular person, which may or may not mean that it's how it really happened. We already established that Talos really is a god, regardless of how he achived that and as long as people want to worship him, he deserves to be a god. So, in that case "Talos Mistake" is a false statement, influenced by Thalmor Propaganda in the game, which was written by no doubt, lore writers of Elder Scrolls. Just like that the information in that text from Imperial Library could be influenced by someone's belief within the game and it could be the actual truth. 

      Final point is that we may never know, until we find more proof to that. Like mention of any Nedic ruins that predates Sarthal, which is as of now the oldest city of men in Tamriel. Ofcourse that one is all but ruins, but Windhelm on the other hand, is the oldest inhabited city in Tamriel, or at least can quite possibly be. We need more lore information on Nedes and facts of weather they left any archeological evidences that that person claims to be the common knowledge in that text.

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    • Legate Alexandros wrote:
      Indeed, that text that you brough up, could have been written as a biased source of information. Have you ever read the in game book called "Talos Mistake" where the author presents all of the reasons why Talos is not a god? That book clearly written as a biased text, where the author takes Thalmor's side of the Argument. He agrees that Talos was the great hero of emensed ability, but that alone doesn't make him a god, as no man can rise to godhood.

      I don't know if you are refering to my comment but I hope you realize that that excerpt comes from one of Barenziah's biography's "The Real Barenziah".

      What sort of bias (especially in a biography) would feel like they need to change how Tiber Septim looks? It's not like the book is trying to slander him by calling him ugly or something, and it is a much more believable description than "a Nord with immense strength", which is most likely based off some Cult of Personality.

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    • No, I certainly wasn't talking about your insert. I am sorry, when I was typing that, you post wasn't there. I was talking about previous postings and it was refering to the lore writers' text that hint that first humans in Tamriel, might not have come from Atmora, but always lived there as Nedes, who there interbred with Altmer to make Bretons and with Nords to make Imperials. I just brough up the example of how the information you find in texts within games, can be deliberately biased like "Talos Mistake". I was in no means refering to "Biography of Berenziah" and "The Real Berenziah."

      I quite agree with you, even though I haven't read any of those books entirely, I've seen that part mentioned. It quite suports my impression of Talos being half Nord and half Breton. In fact, more then likely his father came to Alcaire and married a Breton woman, possibly from Lariat family (Lariats claim to be distant cousins of Septims). When they had children, his father obviously named one by a Nord name Hjalti, I cannot say if his brother Agnorith was named with Nordic name as well, it sure sounds like. Early-Beard could have been their Nordic clan name, just as much as it could have been Hjalti's Nordic nickname. Most obviously he came to the land of his ancestors at some point. That makes a lot of sense, don't you agree?

      Also, to answer the statement about how you can mannage cease fire treaty to deal with Dragon crisis. I am well aware of that, but I was talking more about taking it to the next level. Can you imagine that Civil War resolves peacefuly, that after having each their own part of Skyrim, they would realize that Talmor are the real enemy and would put their diferences aside to come up with the way to stop Thalmor tyrany over entire empire? Then it maybe hard, but perhaps even Elisif and Ulfric can reconsoliate and maybe in time Skyrim would be reunited, under two rules, co-ruling a greater Skyrim instead of East Skyrim and West Skyrim. Perhaps they could even have Tetrarchy with Jarl Balgruf being on the ruling council of entire Skyrim. It would be too much to ask to have Elisif and Ulfric all of the sudden find feelings for each other and getting married, but who knows? (I know it would not be quite the same as Kenshin and Tomoe from Samurai X trust and betrayal.) However in that way, Skyrim would still be part of the Empire, Thalmor put in their place, Talos officially worshiped again whithin the Empire! Everyone would be happy like that...except for the Thalmor, but who cares about them? lol

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    • Talos Earlybeard... not exactly the kind of name that could strike terror into the hearts of his enemies, I can definitely see why he preffered Talos Storm Crowned or Tiber Septim lol.

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    • Well he was Hjalti Earlybeard, before he was named Talos. Talos, was the name that Nords had given him, after his victory at old Hroldan. Not only he used his Thum then, he also had a storm cloud over his head. Later, he was proclaimed Talos the Storm Crowned, formerly by Greybeards. I agree, that it is a better name then Hjalti Earlybeard, but it wasn't the one he bestowed upon himself. The one that he did though, was Tiber Septim as he was an Emperor then. Imperial sounding name, sounded fiting for an Emperor of Tamriel. It also seems like he took an Imerial wife to, since officialy his descendents are Imperials (Seems like even his brother took one too, since techinicaly Tiber Septim's descendants, beside Pelagius I, are his brother's descendants). Also, he wasn't quite the same Talos the Storm Crowned when he became Emperor Tiber Septim, since he couldn't even shout then anymore, a wound to the throat would do that to you, no matter who you are. (Regardless if that was an assassin who did that, or he himself.)

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    • Yeah, though it's pretty odd that when he ascended he became Talos again instead of the name that the Imperials knew him as, maybe he liked that one better?

      On a side note, I think it was a suicide attempt, but I wouldn't bet on it.

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    • I am not even sure if he chose the name when he was ascending. It would seem that if the Divines did give him the names when they accepted him as one of their own, they decided to call him Talos. That, or the people of Tamriel agreed that Talos as a name, speaks for his godhood. He did become one with Ysmir and Wulfhearth of Atmora and Wulhearth of Atmora was Talos before him as well as Dragon of the North, Ysmir. Or it could all be a bit more complicated then that.

      There is no way of knowing what happened in that tent, that night, before King Cuhlecaine took Imperial crown. The oficial statement mentions the assassin from High Rock who killed the king and attempted to assassinated General Talos. Would make sense, since Cuhlecaine did wrong High Rock, with his campaign against Bretons at Sancar Tor. However, even the Arcturian Heresy sounds credible. Talos truly believed that he was destined to become Emperor, since he found the Amulet of Kings however, he knew that Cuhlecaine wouldn't let him take the crown. (Although who knows, if he would have explained to him a situation like a friend, maybe King of Falkreath would understand. I am sure he wasn't anything like Sidgier). There is a possibilty that Talos finally decided to do the unthinkable, but when he saw his friend's body laying before him, he felt such remorse, that he tried ending his own life. However, it would seem that Divines had other plans for Talos, so he survived and decided to create the best Empire Tamriel had ever seen (conquering even Summerset Isles, that until then were never in the Empire before, well not in human Empire at least.) He also brought fourth the time of peace. At least his own reign was marked by peace. His descendants turned a bit too power hungry (War of Red Diamond and some struggles that followed it), but overall the third era would seem to be quite peaceful.

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    • It would seem that if the Divines did give him the names when they accepted him as one of their own, they decided to call him Talos.

      The divines have no decisions in the matter, the reason why Talos is worshipped is because mortals chose to worship him.

      He did become one with Ysmir and Wulfhearth of Atmora and Wulhearth of Atmora was Talos before him as well as Dragon of the North, Ysmir. Or it could all be a bit more complicated then that.

      Ysmir is Wulfharth, Tiber became one with Wulfharth and Zurin Arctus; and yes, it is more complicated then that.

      There is no way of knowing what happened in that tent, that night

      It was actually the Imperial Palace where Cuhlecain was assassinated.

      Talos truly believed that he was destined to become Emperor, since he found the Amulet of Kings

      Actually he was destined before then. The Greybeards gave him the prophecy that he would be the one who reunites Tamriel and becomes the new Emperor.

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    • he is a god, if we look back to oblivion crisis, remember how dagon enter nirn? by the blood of a divine and i belive he uses martin septims (descendant o tiber septim or talos) blood or something and it worked so its true, he is the ninth divine, thats what i knoiw

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    • Talos might be a god... But he's not aedra

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    • Talos achieved CHIM by learning from Vivec and used it to destroy the jungles of Cyrodiil. There is some eve dance in the game about this including hemskir's speech.

      Talos used the Mantella to power the Numidium, which was a gift to him from Vivec. He than used it to conquer Valenwood and the Sumerset isles (and caused about 20 time paradoxes in the process). I guess the mantilla is a giant soul gem, so by imprisoning so many souls into it to power the Numidium he unwillingly became like Lorkhan (who bound the souls of the gods to the mortal plain) and mantled him.

      Zurich Aractus was Talos's battle Mage who became jealous of Talos and attacked him on the bridge of the Numidium during the siege of Alinor. But Talos killed him. I don't know who Wulfhearth is.

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    • No one knows of wlfhearth of Atmora, the Ash King, the Under King? Really? He was the ancient king from Atmora and avatar of Shor, who was brought back by him few times. He the one who rvealed to Hjalti, that he was dragonborn, before the battle of old Hroldan and taught him t'hum then. He was his eyes and ears on battle field when he was conqering Tamriel, but since he cannot appear to be in two places as one, Wulfheart worked behind the scenes. Yes, it suggests that Wulfhearth, was such a part of Talos, that they looked alike. Then he got angry with Tiber Septim, for not wanting to crush Dunmer, and left him. However, Tiber realized that he needs the avatar of Shor, to power Mantela, so he lured him back, with a promise of destroying elves of Morrowind. Instead, he trapped his powerful soul in Mantella. But that's where the different story of Zurin Arctus takes place, that before Wulfheart was trapped in the mantella, he killed Arctus. To explain what happened, the official records say, that battle mage turned on Tiber Septim and killed a valiant guard, who was trying to defend Emperor, before he was killed and his soul was trapped in the soul gem. Like that, the name of Wulfheart was replaced by Arctus and prety much forgotten. I think he was mean to be in the story, that pile of ash, that was left of Arctus. I think it also have something to do, with not wanting to stain the name of ancient, Atmoran king, with treason. Arcturian Herressy, might provide some answers, but not everyone will believe it, of course. 

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    • I think that talos isn't a god PER SAY, as there is some evidence of his divinity, but also evidence against it, (working of evidence just from skyrim, as is the only TES game i've played). His shrine doesn't confer a blessing, but stil cures diseases and removes other blessing, and his amulet confers a boon. Also you do not see him among the heroes of Sovengard, but as the conqueror of Tamriel you think he would be there. So in my opinion he is some sort of Demigod.

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    • 69.35.201.185 wrote:
      I think that talos isn't a god PER SAY, as there is some evidence of his divinity, but also evidence against it, (working of evidence just from skyrim, as is the only TES game i've played). His shrine doesn't confer a blessing, but stil cures diseases and removes other blessing, and his amulet confers a boon. Also you do not see him among the heroes of Sovengard, but as the conqueror of Tamriel you think he would be there. So in my opinion he is some sort of Demigod.

      Actually his shrine does give a blessing, it makes one's shout recharge time decrease for a while.
      It doesn't show the effect in the status menu due to a bug in the game.

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    • To whoever said that the Thalmor hunt Talos worshippers because he didn't acheive it in the right way, that is wrong.  The Thalmor hunt them because they want to do that whole thing with ending the world and all that stuff

      JustThalmorThings

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    • I beleive that Talos is a god, but I don't beleive he is an Aedra, his power represents more the power of a Dedra. Also, about the Altmeri Dominion being a group of horrible people that only want to end the world, this is not the case. As you see in ESO, the queen who was in charge at the time that game took place actually hated the racists that believed that Altmer are the best race, and that Bosmer and Kajit should be forced to leave the Summerset Isles. The Thalmor are more like those racists than the old Dominion, which I personally loved a lot. The racist Altmer were also the ones who took all of the credit for stopping the Oblivion Crisis. The old Dominion also saved the Kajit from certain death when they brought back the two moons (I forgot  the names of the moons) for no reason but to help the Kajit from certain extinction. If you want a group of racists, then look at the Bretons, who continuosly had the Redgaurds help them sack and murder the Orcs of Orsinium in High Rock.

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    • Disco Pickles wrote:
      I beleive that Talos is a god, but I don't beleive he is an Aedra, his power represents more the power of a Dedra. Also, about the Altmeri Dominion being a group of horrible people that only want to end the world, this is not the case. As you see in ESO, the queen who was in charge at the time that game took place actually hated the racists that believed that Altmer are the best race, and that Bosmer and Kajit should be forced to leave the Summerset Isles. The Thalmor are more like those racists than the old Dominion, which I personally loved a lot. The racist Altmer were also the ones who took all of the credit for stopping the Oblivion Crisis. The old Dominion also saved the Kajit from certain death when they brought back the two moons (I forgot  the names of the moons) for no reason but to help the Kajit from certain extinction. If you want a group of racists, then look at the Bretons, who continuosly had the Redgaurds help them sack and murder the Orcs of Orsinium in High Rock.

      Talos is a Man-God, who apotheosized by achieving CHIM and mantling Lorkhan. He cannot be an Aedroth or a Daedroth, as those were roles that only apply to the et'Ada: the Original Spirits that resulted from the interplay between Anu and Padomay. That said, the Aldmeri Dominion of the 4th Era is not the Aldmeri Dominion of the 2nd, nor are they even remotely related; further, the Thalmor do not seek to rule the world, nor do their Leadership actually believe in the nonsense about Elven Supremacy. The average Dominion Foot Soldier may believe in the Nazi-esque ideology that the Thalmor Leadership have crafted, but this is not what drives their actions, and is unrelated to their ultimate goals. The Thalmor of the 4th Era Aldmeri Dominion do not simply seek to destroy the world, they seek the unmaking of Mundus: a return to the nonlinear Time of the Dawn Era, which they believe will allow them to revert back to Divine Spirits (Ada). This involves removing Talos' influence from the world, as Talos acts in place of the Heart of Lorkhan: he is a Tower unto himself, and alongside Ada-Mantia he fortifies the Wheel of Convention and stabilizes Creation. They believe that as long as Man exists, Talos will continue to fortify the Wheel: whether they believe he depends on their worship for his divinity (which is false), or whether they believe their worship is his Stone (which may be true) is unknown.

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    • Ottoman Hold
      Ottoman Hold removed this reply because:
      Thread resurrection just for a post that is spam and pretty off topic. Too many caps.
      22:59, December 7, 2016
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    • 64.134.242.65 wrote:
      Disco Pickles wrote:
      I beleive that Talos is a god, but I don't beleive he is an Aedra, his power represents more the power of a Dedra. Also, about the Altmeri Dominion being a group of horrible people that only want to end the world, this is not the case. As you see in ESO, the queen who was in charge at the time that game took place actually hated the racists that believed that Altmer are the best race, and that Bosmer and Kajit should be forced to leave the Summerset Isles. The Thalmor are more like those racists than the old Dominion, which I personally loved a lot. The racist Altmer were also the ones who took all of the credit for stopping the Oblivion Crisis. The old Dominion also saved the Kajit from certain death when they brought back the two moons (I forgot  the names of the moons) for no reason but to help the Kajit from certain extinction. If you want a group of racists, then look at the Bretons, who continuosly had the Redgaurds help them sack and murder the Orcs of Orsinium in High Rock.
      Talos is a Man-God, who apotheosized by achieving CHIM and mantling Lorkhan. He cannot be an Aedroth or a Daedroth, as those were roles that only apply to the et'Ada: the Original Spirits that resulted from the interplay between Anu and Padomay. That said, the Aldmeri Dominion of the 4th Era is not the Aldmeri Dominion of the 2nd, nor are they even remotely related; further, the Thalmor do not seek to rule the world, nor do their Leadership actually believe in the nonsense about Elven Supremacy. The average Dominion Foot Soldier may believe in the Nazi-esque ideology that the Thalmor Leadership have crafted, but this is not what drives their actions, and is unrelated to their ultimate goals. The Thalmor of the 4th Era Aldmeri Dominion do not simply seek to destroy the world, they seek the unmaking of Mundus: a return to the nonlinear Time of the Dawn Era, which they believe will allow them to revert back to Divine Spirits (Ada). This involves removing Talos' influence from the world, as Talos acts in place of the Heart of Lorkhan: he is a Tower unto himself, and alongside Ada-Mantia he fortifies the Wheel of Convention and stabilizes Creation. They believe that as long as Man exists, Talos will continue to fortify the Wheel: whether they believe he depends on their worship for his divinity (which is false), or whether they believe their worship is his Stone (which may be true) is unknown.

      All of which is only true if Bethesda decide to accept everything Kirkbride writes as canon. They very well may not, and there is no evidence by which you can ultimately say that they do. The fact that they obviously accept some of his writings as canon is not sufficient to serve as proof that they accept all he writes as canon.

      And ultimately, Bethesda are the arbiters of what is and is not the actual lore of the franchise. Anything that is not expressly implemented as canon by them is, ultimately, head-canon at best. Fan-fiction, in other words. Even if it is written by someone who was formerly responsible for handling lore officially.

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    • The Divines are Planets within Mundus, Each Planet Shares the name of a Divine, Talos is just supposed to signify the dropping of Pluto as a planet. Seriously you can find a mapping of the space within Mundus and see the Planets Surrounding Nirn, The only all creating Force in the elder scrolls Aetherius, so id say the devines are just the peoples understanding of the planets, when the real "God" is Aetherius

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    • 99.240.22.168 wrote:

      The Divines are Planets within Mundus, Each Planet Shares the name of a Divine, Talos is just supposed to signify the dropping of Pluto as a planet. Seriously you can find a mapping of the space within Mundus and see the Planets Surrounding Nirn, The only all creating Force in the elder scrolls Aetherius, so id say the devines are just the peoples understanding of the planets, when the real "God" is Aetherius

      Very Much the Truth!! Preach Brother! lol

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    • Sorry if this has been said, there are 186 replies and I havent read every single one. But the books in the Elder Scrolls series are supposed to be exactly the same as the books in the real world - not necessarily true, just the opinion of the one that wrote it. Books disagree with each other in Tamriel, books sometimes spout absolute nonsense that is obviously false. Books are just as unreliabile as lore devices as books in real life can be unreliable to history. 


      So yes it may be that a book says something is true, but that doesn't mean that it is actually true. 

      That isnt to say that all books in Tamriel are false, it's just that you have to take a lot of them with a grain of salt.


      Despite this, I personally think Talos is a god. He is my favorite god, and my favorite blessing comes from his shrines. Oddly enough however I side with the Imperials on every playthrough. I hate the Thalmor and I think Talos should be a god, but I also see the importance of keeping Skyrim as a part of the Empire. If I was emperor, I would be licking my wounds and planning the day when the Aldmeri Dominion is overthrown, but go along with it until that day arrives. 

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    • Yoshiman421 wrote:
      Sorry if this has been said, there are 186 replies and I havent read every single one. But the books in the Elder Scrolls series are supposed to be exactly the same as the books in the real world - not necessarily true, just the opinion of the one that wrote it. Books disagree with each other in Tamriel, books sometimes spout absolute nonsense that is obviously false. Books are just as unreliabile as lore devices as books in real life can be unreliable to history. 


      So yes it may be that a book says something is true, but that doesn't mean that it is actually true. 

      That isnt to say that all books in Tamriel are false, it's just that you have to take a lot of them with a grain of salt.


      Despite this, I personally think Talos is a god. He is my favorite god, and my favorite blessing comes from his shrines. Oddly enough however I side with the Imperials on every playthrough. I hate the Thalmor and I think Talos should be a god, but I also see the importance of keeping Skyrim as a part of the Empire. If I was emperor, I would be licking my wounds and planning the day when the Aldmeri Dominion is overthrown, but go along with it until that day arrives. 

      Those are all very good points that I think a lot of us (including myself) forget at times. At the end of the day, you just have to decide for yourself which books, if any, are telling the truth.

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    • While I agree he is a God (talking to him in Morrowind is pretty irrefutable), the "you can pray at his shrines in Skyrim and get a blessing, he must be a God!" argument isn't not necessarily true. In Morrowind, you can pray at the shrines of various Saints and get blessings, despite them not being Gods. You can also enchant various items to get the same blessings as those shrines, so... shrine blessings don't always mean divinity. Only that there's magic involved.

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    • Enda Kenny wrote:
      Beggar , Thief , Warrior and King are all lies.

      Hmm?Just because the Underking wrote it doesn't mean it's true.He is pretty much undead, his mind is most probably very different from before.

      I'm pretty sure they say its fiction in one of the books.

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    • Enda Kenny wrote:
      Lord Hadron wrote:
      Auriel was an Elf, now a God.
      Auriel is the Aldmeri/Altmeri version of Akatosh.But all races have divine ancestry, except maybe the Argonians.This page .So all races can reach divinity, godly intervention or no.

      No Auriel is Anui-el, who is Anu. Aldmeri Dominion didn't like the fact that a Human, what they believed to be a lesser race, could achieve divinity and they, as Elves, could not. Aldemeri are just the much bigger Stormcloaks of Elves. Also Elves believe they are descendents of Akatosh, but most humans believe they are the creations of the original 8 divines. Tiber Septim is Talos who is a Divine. As proven by the Paradise quest in which you need the blood of a GOD to open the portal to paradies, also as stated by OP, You do not find him in Sovengarde as you would if he were mortal.

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    • Jdarkdorsett wrote:
      How is that difference to what the nords believe? Secondly how does that matter? As long as the Aldemeri are wrong than there is no problem to me.

      My man here hates the dominion. thumbs up

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    • Lord Hadron wrote:
      @Legate Alexandros

      Talos is a Divine. But only because the power of the Numidium seeped into him when he roamed Tamriel with it. He DID mantle Lorkhan, because of the Brass Tower.

      Worship of Talos is obviously seen as heretical in the eyes of the Aldmeri Dominion. He didn't truely and honestly achieve divinity.

      not true  akatosh kynerath and stendar rose him to godhood themselves when they did the dragonbreak known as the warp in the west 

      ​​​

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    • is Talos a god short answer is no ;) in role yes because you beliving in that :P (he dont have own planet he dont have anything related to godhood to fit his universal scene :) ) maybe he is siting somewhere in magnus realm under some apple tree.. and playing only with one "power" called CHIM maybe not even that. spirit is strong only because of belif and can influence more mortal world :)  even Manimarco is much more godly then TALOS he become planet ;) ... in metaphysical sense or role every soul is anuic in nature (ego,animus) and lorkhanic becuase of mortal body lorkhan is space so he is related to mortality ( celestial body, mortal body ) so basicly everyone can be that called god ;) not just talos but not godhead ... godhead is real god he is a dreamer all others are just posers :) even anu and podamay are posers of real godhead... once wise old elf say when we ask him are you a god he answer "not even remotely" : Sotha Sil

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    • so does that mean any mortal can become a god if follwing the steps of tiber septim? ok then

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    • 45.18.82.37 wrote:
      so does that mean any mortal can become a god if follwing the steps of tiber septim? ok then

      yep that is purpose of Lorkhan ;) teach others that they live in dream . 

      and following one of the six walking ways or all at once. ​​​

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    • reminds me of a video in my reccomended feed on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ZkAvm_lQQ&t=0s

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    • He probably is a god for one reason; because of the heritage of races of man and mer. 

      Seeing as how the Ehlnofey(Origins of both man and mer) come from being birthed on a world that came from the union of Nir and Anu.(If the the Anuad is to be believed)

      By default that would make them true offsprings of the two of them and not like the Aedra and Deadra.(who were born from Anu and Padomay's blood)

      So whatever the men and mer think, they are both the same in a way and their heritage may be the reason why they can ascend. 

      I will say that if the Thalmor weren't so hell bent on being the "Dominant" race of Tamriel and worked with their far distance cousins the men, then maybe they could return to the old days before Nirn. Division will only cause strife and without men (the other half of their race) they will never be whole again.

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    • A FANDOM user
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