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  • Does anyone think that at some point in the series we may get some technological advancement. Sort of like Fable to Fable 2&3.

    It seems like as a civilization, the people of Tamriel are due for some leaps in that area. Especially with one great war that already happened, and lets face it, another one right around the bend. Nothing fuels technological advancement quite like world wars. 

    The most technologically advanced race in Tamriel ever was the Dwemer and they've been gone for a really long time. And with most of their tech still intact, you'd think someone would have reverse enginered some of it by now. 

    Or do you think having technology advance anymore would break the game. Thoughts?

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    • The problem is, that they don't really need advanced technology because they have magic. Guns would be totally useless because a mage could fire a Fireball from his hands. Hospitals would also be useless, because they have Healing spells, and so on.

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    • 89.245.234.144 wrote:
      The problem is, that they don't really need advanced technology because they have magic. Guns would be totally useless because a mage could fire a Fireball from his hands. Hospitals would also be useless, because they have Healing spells, and so on.

      I Disagree. I think magic should make the technology more advanced. It's the ultimate power source. They would just have to get creative. 


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    • What 89.245 said, i like it the way it is too and really wouldn't want much of a change (if you want tech in a TES like game theres always Fallout).

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    • AzuraKnight wrote:
      What 89.245 said, i like it the way it is too and really wouldn't want much of a change (if you want tech in a TES like game theres always Fallout).

      I'm not talking about wanting machine guns and computers. I'm talking natural technological progression that happens in society. They've been more or less civilized for thousands of years, and the Dwemer were the only people to ever even get to steam power? 


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    • The reason the Dwemer were able to make the technological advances they made is becuase of their lack of desire to use magic.  They made the jumps they did to replace the magics they didn't use, they're more logic and strength driven.  This is why we often call them Dwarves, not because of their stature, and not just because they lived underground, but because of what drove them as a race.

      That being said, there are those that do attempt to understand and recreate the Dwemer technology.  One could make the assumption, however, that you cannot make logical/technological advancements while making spiritual/magical advancements - at least within TES and it's universe.  This might explation the stagnation in a lore-friendly way.

      I'd like to make a personal note that I'm not a fan of advancing to guns within TES.  It would completely change the game-base and make certain things feel awkward.  One could consider Tamriel, perhaps all of Nirn, in a perpetual semi-dark age.  Or we could call it mythral-fantasy and be done with it.

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    • PsijicThief wrote:
      The reason the Dwemer were able to make the technological advances they made is becuase of their lack of desire to use magic.  They made the jumps they did to replace the magics they didn't use, they're more logic and strength driven.  This is why we often call them Dwarves, not because of their stature, and not just because they lived underground, but because of what drove them as a race.

      That being said, there are those that do attempt to understand and recreate the Dwemer technology.  One could make the assumption, however, that you cannot make logical/technological advancements while making spiritual/magical advancements - at least within TES and it's universe.  This might explation the stagnation in a lore-friendly way.

      I'd like to make a personal note that I'm not a fan of advancing to guns within TES.  It would completely change the game-base and make certain things feel awkward.  One could consider Tamriel, perhaps all of Nirn, in a perpetual semi-dark age.  Or we could call it mythral-fantasy and be done with it.

      All good points. Though the Nords distrust magic, you would think they would be working to find a way to live outside of it's influence. But I do see what you're saying. 

      If not technological advancements, then I suppose magical research and advancement is a lore friendly substitute, and makes quite a bit of sense. If that's the case then it would be nice to see some completely 100% new stuff involving magic when TES VI eventually rolls around. 

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    • Well, we got two-handed magic spells, and combining each hand to make a more powerful version of the single-handed spell.  Maybe we'll see certain spells mixable next?  I think drastic changes or advancements would turn people off.  Plus look at the stories from Fable into 2 and into 3, they got progessively shorter and, in my opinion, worse.  They spent way too much time on the advancements and minute details and left me wanting horribly for the main story lines.

      TES has a habbit of getting me lost in side-quests and forgetting that there's even a major story going on for a little bit.  I'll be walking along, fully intending to do some quest (we'll say get the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller) when I stumble upon some bandits.  Then I see their camp around the bend.  Next thing you know I'm digging in the mine up the hillside.  Then I'm following some deer trying to kill them because I need the leather for my crafting.  They lead me a ways off and now I'm at some dragon roost getting a word off the wall.  I notice a Nordic ruin on the next mountain so I head over there.  Then I find some vampires killing a traveller, so I kill everyone there and loot all the bodies.  I see an Orc Stronghold on the compass, so I need to get in there.  Next thing I know it's a two weeks later in the game and I still don't have the Horn.

      Make minor adjustments and advances all day, sure, just don't lose what makes the game great.

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    • War created engineering marvels in RL during the Medieval times, although most of it was to do with war. But beyond that nothing was ever really gained during the dark times, it was after the wars, during the Renaissance where tremendous non-military feats were performed. It was a mostly calm time, but only fueled the current state of the world. Rich get richer, poor get poorer, etc.

      Tamriel is still in those dark times where people fight for honour, victory, and general wealth instead of oil and "Freedom". They have everything they could need, people can make a fortune from one adventure, with no banks and police getting involved wondering where you found that pile of money. 

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    • It's like this in almost every fantasy world, the land stays deadlocked in medieval times forever. It's not due to the people of Nirn being unwilling to change, it's because Bethesda wants to make medieval fantasy games, not steampunk and magic like Dishonored or Thief.

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    • What Draevan13 said, to be sure.  The only reason I even brough up the reasoning behind stagnation was to point out a possible lore-based reason for those that really need/want it.

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    • See this last person is right.

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    • Which last person . . . you, or me?  Or Draevan, as our posts were but two minutes apart . . . you could have not seen mine before you posted.

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    • It's why the quote button was invented.

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    • Science & technology is new to Nirn. It is a fantastic idea but for some reason, in the world where magic existed it needed centuries of scientific research using what's left of the Dwemer ruins. Most of the Tamriel's races aren't interested in science makes it harder to implement.

      Calcelmo is the Leonardo da Vinci for now. Fast forward to the 8th Era and see how they are doing.

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    • Science and Technology aren't all that new, nor are they inherently inseparable.  Science is used in the making of Alchemical potions and researching of just about anything.  Heck, science could be said to be involved in reading the Elder Scrolls, if one chose to define it correctly (either the process for reading to the word science).  Technology, in this case, however, is the items.  And the Dwemer have been around for a long time.  They were recorded in the First Era, after all.  They vanised in the 1E700, granted that is out of 2960 years, but 700 is a long time.  And we have known about them for every second of their planar existence and ever since their vanishing. 

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    • Elder Scrolls is fine, there doesn't need to be some sort of explanation for everything. At it's heart, they're Video Games. If the world takes place in a Midieval Enviroment forever, that's fine. As long as it entertains us.

      That, and why would they need advanced technology when they have magic?

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    • Who the heck would want technology in TES in the first place.

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    • Half the modders on the Nexus.

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    • You talking about all those dwemer rifle mods

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    • A lot more than that, but those are the majority, yes.

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    • If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!

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    • PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!

      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

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    • VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      But do you agree that Bethesda should introduce new technology over the next few games? gunpowder aren't that advanced and agricultural machinery would be helpful to the hardworking farmers.

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    • TheGreenSabre wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      But do you agree that Bethesda should introduce new technology over the next few games? gunpowder aren't that advanced and agricultural machinery would be helpful to the hardworking farmers.

      NO NO NO, gunpowder weapons don't fit in at all with TES fantasy genre.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      But do you agree that Bethesda should introduce new technology over the next few games? gunpowder aren't that advanced and agricultural machinery would be helpful to the hardworking farmers.
      NO NO NO, gunpowder weapons don't fit in at all with TES fantasy genre.

      they could, possibly in the form of smoke bombs, or small explosives; Guns? HELL NO!!!

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      But do you agree that Bethesda should introduce new technology over the next few games? gunpowder aren't that advanced and agricultural machinery would be helpful to the hardworking farmers.
      NO NO NO, gunpowder weapons don't fit in at all with TES fantasy genre.
      they could, possibly in the form of smoke bombs, or small explosives; Guns? HELL NO!!!

      That would be fine but they could probably just make spells that do that also.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      But do you agree that Bethesda should introduce new technology over the next few games? gunpowder aren't that advanced and agricultural machinery would be helpful to the hardworking farmers.
      NO NO NO, gunpowder weapons don't fit in at all with TES fantasy genre.
      they could, possibly in the form of smoke bombs, or small explosives; Guns? HELL NO!!!
      That would be fine but they could probably just make spells that do that also.

      yes, but some people don't like spells, or RP as a non-spellcaster.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      But do you agree that Bethesda should introduce new technology over the next few games? gunpowder aren't that advanced and agricultural machinery would be helpful to the hardworking farmers.
      NO NO NO, gunpowder weapons don't fit in at all with TES fantasy genre.
      they could, possibly in the form of smoke bombs, or small explosives; Guns? HELL NO!!!
      That would be fine but they could probably just make spells that do that also.
      yes, but some people don't like spells, or RP as a non-spellcaster.

      true, true, technically they do already use explosives in TES V with the siege onagers.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      But do you agree that Bethesda should introduce new technology over the next few games? gunpowder aren't that advanced and agricultural machinery would be helpful to the hardworking farmers.
      NO NO NO, gunpowder weapons don't fit in at all with TES fantasy genre.
      they could, possibly in the form of smoke bombs, or small explosives; Guns? HELL NO!!!
      That would be fine but they could probably just make spells that do that also.
      yes, but some people don't like spells, or RP as a non-spellcaster.

      Well I agree that gunpowder weapons would a a big no.  If you want to see a good way that TES' magic can compliment technology, look no further than the Sload's airships. Avoid guns, and get creative, and they could do some really awesome stuff. 

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      But do you agree that Bethesda should introduce new technology over the next few games? gunpowder aren't that advanced and agricultural machinery would be helpful to the hardworking farmers.
      NO NO NO, gunpowder weapons don't fit in at all with TES fantasy genre.
      they could, possibly in the form of smoke bombs, or small explosives; Guns? HELL NO!!!
      That would be fine but they could probably just make spells that do that also.
      yes, but some people don't like spells, or RP as a non-spellcaster.
      Well I agree that gunpowder weapons would a a big no.  If you want to see a good way that TES' magic can compliment technology, look no further than the Sload's airships. Avoid guns, and get creative, and they could do some really awesome stuff. 

      Yah when you think about it some of the creations in TES are pretty freaking advanced.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      But do you agree that Bethesda should introduce new technology over the next few games? gunpowder aren't that advanced and agricultural machinery would be helpful to the hardworking farmers.
      NO NO NO, gunpowder weapons don't fit in at all with TES fantasy genre.
      they could, possibly in the form of smoke bombs, or small explosives; Guns? HELL NO!!!
      That would be fine but they could probably just make spells that do that also.
      yes, but some people don't like spells, or RP as a non-spellcaster.
      Well I agree that gunpowder weapons would a a big no.  If you want to see a good way that TES' magic can compliment technology, look no further than the Sload's airships. Avoid guns, and get creative, and they could do some really awesome stuff. 
      Yah when you think about it some of the creations in TES are pretty freaking advanced.

      Some of them, yeah. But it seems like we never actually see them, let alone interect with or use them.

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    • Smoke bombs.....maybe. Farming Equipment? Yes. TES may be locked in a state of perpetual war, but they must discover ploughs and sythes sooner or later. The small explosives can just be more AOE spells...

      Just no gasoline or gunpowder. Oil to run SPECIALISED macinery, such as a few attempts to reverse engineer Dwarven tech would be okay I suppose. Maybe someone tries to run a Grain crusher thingy using gears and thermal energy either by an oil-fueled furnace or mages. It would fit into the lore, and it would show some advancement in non-war science.

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    • VAULTEER wrote:
      Smoke bombs.....maybe. Farming Equipment? Yes. TES may be locked in a state of perpetual war, but they must discover ploughs and sythes sooner or later. The small explosives can just be more AOE spells...

      Just no gasoline or gunpowder. Oil to run SPECIALISED macinery, such as a few attempts to reverse engineer Dwarven tech would be okay I suppose. Maybe someone tries to run a Grain crusher thingy using gears and thermal energy either by an oil-fueled furnace or mages. It would fit into the lore, and it would show some advancement in non-war science.

      Well that's what I'm saying. Especially when it comes to reverse enginering the Dwemer tech. It's a hell of a lot easier to do that than to invent something from scratch, and it's all just sitting there, still almost perfectly functional. And the Dwemer tech is already all powered by either steam, geothermics, or magic, so it's all lore friendly.

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      Smoke bombs.....maybe. Farming Equipment? Yes. TES may be locked in a state of perpetual war, but they must discover ploughs and sythes sooner or later. The small explosives can just be more AOE spells...

      Just no gasoline or gunpowder. Oil to run SPECIALISED macinery, such as a few attempts to reverse engineer Dwarven tech would be okay I suppose. Maybe someone tries to run a Grain crusher thingy using gears and thermal energy either by an oil-fueled furnace or mages. It would fit into the lore, and it would show some advancement in non-war science.

      Well that's what I'm saying. Especially when it comes to reverse enginering the Dwemer tech. It's a hell of a lot easier to do that than to invent something from scratch, and it's all just sitting there, still almost perfectly functional. And the Dwemer tech is already all powered by either steam, geothermics, or magic, so it's all lore friendly.

      Isn't that what Calcelmo is doing.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      Smoke bombs.....maybe. Farming Equipment? Yes. TES may be locked in a state of perpetual war, but they must discover ploughs and sythes sooner or later. The small explosives can just be more AOE spells...

      Just no gasoline or gunpowder. Oil to run SPECIALISED macinery, such as a few attempts to reverse engineer Dwarven tech would be okay I suppose. Maybe someone tries to run a Grain crusher thingy using gears and thermal energy either by an oil-fueled furnace or mages. It would fit into the lore, and it would show some advancement in non-war science.

      Well that's what I'm saying. Especially when it comes to reverse enginering the Dwemer tech. It's a hell of a lot easier to do that than to invent something from scratch, and it's all just sitting there, still almost perfectly functional. And the Dwemer tech is already all powered by either steam, geothermics, or magic, so it's all lore friendly.
      Isn't that what Calcelmo is doing.

      I don't think so, he's just collecting and putting togethr lost parts of Dwemer history from what I understand. Filling in some blanks I guess.

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    • There is an absolute TON of interest to the Dwemer and their machinery in-game, you would think they would try to do something practical with it, even if it is a jury-rigged mess, it's a start to making Farming easier than picking. Imagine....an entire field of Wheat, instead of the large garden that most farms have. The population would grow nicely with more resources, which I want out of the future games. The population feels so small in Skyrim, and yet so much time has passed since the last Atmoran came.

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    • VAULTEER wrote:
      There is an absolute TON of interest to the Dwemer and their machinery in-game, you would think they would try to do something practical with it, even if it is a jury-rigged mess, it's a start to making Farming easier than picking. Imagine....an entire field of Wheat, instead of the large garden that most farms have. The population would grow nicely with more resources, which I want out of the future games. The population feels so small in Skyrim, and yet so much time has passed since the last Atmoran came.

      I KNOW!!! It seem's like everyone is hoarding Dwemer tech, and studying the Dwemer themselves, but no one seems to give a skeever's ass about the practical applications. And I think if the mer and men of Tamriel could make some progress in that area, then the Sload would make great antagonist's in TES VI. Maybe not the Sload as a whole, but maybe a group or faction of them trying to do something nafarious. They're arguably the most magically and technologically advanced race that's still in existance as far as we know, but they're almost never even brought up.

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    • Bethesda needs to pump take their time with Fallout 4 first. 

      THEN LET TES VI-X BE UPON US!!

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    • Well that is probably what there planning, I cannot wait for the next Fallout game.

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    • We already have crossbows, and why do we need guns when we have staves that shoot fire and lighting and such?

      And for all you people who want guns in TES, just remember: It will be centuries before they get to anything close to rapid fire weapons.

      Finally, from a lore point of view, the reason Tamriel is not as advanced as you want it to be, after the events of Oblivion and the Great War everyone is focusing on rebuilding. Morrowind was sacked by Argonians, Cyrodiil was sacked by the Dominion, the only cultures left that would actually focus on research are the High Elves (Who are already magically oriented) and the Bretons, and they're also magically oriented.

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    • Good point... but something that was faster and efficient for non-magic users would be nice.

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    • I'm going to say this before I unfollow this thread, because everyone seems to be talking in circles:  Guns break lore.  We already have things like scythes and ploughs - if you honestly think the single farmhand at one of the ranches did all the fields, then you're a little out of sync.  If you RP a non-magic user, than you need to get a follower that is a magic user.  It's not on Bethesda to give you an alternative to their current structure, they give you a fire spell at the front of the game.  You don't have to use it much, or at all for that matter, but it's always sitting there waiting on you.  Even all the Dwemer tech isn't as advanced as some of you are talking, the best we'll have from there is high-powered arrow/bolt launchers. 

      It's been said before, but I'll say it one last time, then I'm out - promise, lol:  If you want a different game, go play that game.  Guns will be in Fallout and Fable (if you don't mind replaying old games), but TES with guns is no longer TES.

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    • Hamsterlampglade wrote:
      Good point... but something that was faster and efficient for non-magic users would be nice.

      That's why the added crossbows with dawnguard! The dawnguard questline (not the vampire questline) is not magic centered, and you can get some wicked crossbows that are a nice substitute for a fire spell or staff.

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    • The world of Mundus is fine as it is. They already have gunpowder, but magick is more effective (Stros M'Kai has cannons along its wall IIRC), there's no need for medicine because magick, the Dwemer meshed tech and magic into their steamworks and automatons and they just got arrogant. You don't even need planes because you can just levitate, though not without breaking laws! The only thing the people of Tamriel would need as far as technology would be, say, faster ground transport. A talented mage could theoretically summon a gust of wind to speed a ship.

      Off topic but if you're interested in a world of magick, that also includes technology, there was a game created a few years ago called Arcanum, wherein the world was equivalent technologically to ours in the late 1800s. However, the increase in technology weakened magick, so in a factory clad city, a mage would be weakened, but in a college of magic, guns would misfire and automatons would break. So there's not only a balance of good/evil but magick/tech

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    • How come when I said "technological leaps" everyone starts foaming at the mouth saying, NO GUNSSSS!!!!!! Did I say guns? I don't want guns in TES, no one does. The phrase "It goes without saying" comes to mind. I just want some believable technological progression as the hundreds and hundreds of years that the series encompases go by.

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      How come when I said "technological leaps" everyone starts foaming at the mouth saying, NO GUNSSSS!!!!!! Did I say guns? I don't want guns in TES, no one does. The phrase "It goes without saying" comes to mind. I just want some believable technological progression as the hundreds and hundreds of years that the series encompases go by.

      Did you ever consider that forces that know they are in a godhead (like Tiber Septim and Vivec) have been using CHIM to keep the world at one technological level the entire time?

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    • Th3Antioch wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      How come when I said "technological leaps" everyone starts foaming at the mouth saying, NO GUNSSSS!!!!!! Did I say guns? I don't want guns in TES, no one does. The phrase "It goes without saying" comes to mind. I just want some believable technological progression as the hundreds and hundreds of years that the series encompases go by.
      Did you ever consider that forces that know they are in a godhead (like Tiber Septim and Vivec) have been using CHIM to keep the world at one technological level the entire time?

      O.O You're blowing my mind. 

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    • Th3Antioch wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      How come when I said "technological leaps" everyone starts foaming at the mouth saying, NO GUNSSSS!!!!!! Did I say guns? I don't want guns in TES, no one does. The phrase "It goes without saying" comes to mind. I just want some believable technological progression as the hundreds and hundreds of years that the series encompases go by.
      Did you ever consider that forces that know they are in a godhead (like Tiber Septim and Vivec) have been using CHIM to keep the world at one technological level the entire time?

      Wouldn't that be dangerous?

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    • Not really. There is also the possibility that the dreamer himself is keeping the world on that level. 

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    • Th3Antioch wrote:
      Not really. There is also the possibility that the dreamer himself is keeping the world on that level. 

      seeing as the "dreamer" is bethesda, the possibility is actually a provable fact[at this point]

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    • I guess that could be the explaination. But that sounds more like a cheap cop out so they have an excuse not to attempt it. 

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    • well it's not like they have a real reason to attempt it; it's their story and they wanna keep it somewhat concise

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      Th3Antioch wrote:
      Not really. There is also the possibility that the dreamer himself is keeping the world on that level. 
      seeing as the "dreamer" is bethesda, the possibility is actually a provable fact[at this point]

      That is true. When you think about it, if Bethesda is the dreamer and they make the lore, couldn't that mean that the dreamer is making people use CHIM?

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    • CHIM?

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    • I think the main reason we haven't seen it already is because implementing new technologies, while preserving lore, staying away from guns, making it feel like a natural progression, having provide interesting depth and complexity to the world and gameplay, all while avoiding a backlash from fans, would be a pretty difficult undertaking.  

      They don't want to put in the amount of time, energy, money, and creative thinking it would take to make it happen. Especially if long time fans of the series would just rage and condem it to oblivion, before even giving it a fair chance. (Didn't you mean: Elder Scrolls Online Announcement?). 

      Edit: To be fair, the ESO rage did go away for the most part.

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    • Hamsterlampglade wrote:
      CHIM?

      Have you read any of the works of Michael Kirkbride?

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    • Apparently not

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    • Hamsterlampglade wrote:
      Apparently not

      Michael Kirkbride used to be a writer for Bethseda. He wrote much of the lore (Including the Towers), and one of the ideas he proposed was that the entire elder scrolls universe was a dream (Or godhead), and that certain individuals in the game became aware of that. The realization that they weren't real normally would result in a zero sum (Ex: I exist, but I don't exist, 1 + -1 = 0), or them being erased from existance. Some people, Tiber Septim and Vivec for example, figured this out, but instead of allowing themselves to be erased, began to manipulate the world around them (the process called CHIM). The only hazard is that the more you CHIM, the more you understand the world around you isn't real, leading you closer to erasure (Kind of like in Inception, the more you change the dream world, the more the dream figures get mad at you).

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    • Now that makes sense thank you Ant1och

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    • But are his writings official cannon? 

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    • I know I left this thread a while back, but I always check back in on things to see if there's a post I need to remove or update or correct or needs special response or something.  The MK stuff is much like the realization of CHIM . . . actually at this point it's more akin to Shrodinger's Cat.  It can be both considered lore and not lore.  His works have never been confirmed in full by Bethesda, but neither have they been denounced.  It's all a matter of opinion and circumstance until such a time as we begin to see it in the canon as it unfolds.

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    • PsijicThief wrote:
      I know I left this thread a while back, but I always check back in on things to see if there's a post I need to remove or update or correct or needs special response or something.  The MK stuff is much like the realization of CHIM . . . actually at this point it's more akin to Shrodinger's Cat.  It can be both considered lore and not lore.  His works have never been confirmed in full by Bethesda, but neither have they been denounced.  It's all a matter of opinion and circumstance until such a time as we begin to see it in the canon as it unfolds.

      Thanks for clarifying

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:

      If you want to see a good way that TES' magic can compliment technology, look no further than the Sload's airships. Avoid guns, and get creative, and they could do some really awesome stuff.


      Indeed, no muskets. But yes to explosives, I can tolerate all the shiny boom-boom naval artillery for the Imperial Navy as long as it's lore friendly. And The Sloads; they can invent airships, building machines would be like baking cookies to them.

      If the Dwemer return into existence and Tamriel takes an Arcanum turn. Fighting a dragon from a blimp seems like a bad idea, but for some reason I want to do it.

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    • TheGreenSabre wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:

      If you want to see a good way that TES' magic can compliment technology, look no further than the Sload's airships. Avoid guns, and get creative, and they could do some really awesome stuff.


      Indeed, no muskets. But yes to explosives, I can tolerate all the shiny boom-boom naval artillery for the Imperial Navy as long as it's lore friendly. And The Sloads; they can invent airships, building machines would be like baking cookies to them.

      If the Dwemer return into existence and Tamriel takes an Arcanum turn. Fighting a dragon from a blimp seems like a bad idea, but for some reason I want to do it.

      I like the idea of the Sload as the bad guys for the next TES game. So much so in fact i started a thread about it here. If you wann get more into that.

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    • .**Gunpowder weaponry already exist in TES lore, there are shore batteries on Stros Mkai and I am fairly certain of a reference to portable muskets on Yokuda at one point. Several navies use cannons on their ships, yet there is one simple thing stagnating most technology.**(EDIT: I cannot for the life of me find the sources for this information, so for the moment disregard this first bit of information till I find it)** Necessity is the mother of invention, and magic has supplanted a lot of the roles that would require technological innovation.

      Now there has been great strides in the magical world since it has been first studied. Major research has gone to explore the realms of Oblivion, Aetherius, and the Void. See the Mannonauts, Sunbirds of Alinor, and the expeditions of the Reman Dynasty.

      When enchanting first began, people were using souls willy nilly and accidentally opened themselves up to extreme Daedric corruption. Look to the book Feyfolken for an example there.

      Scientific refinement is happening in the TES world, just not in the steam punk/electronic vein of thought. If ever a time came where this would begin to happen, I hope it is done extremely carefully. It is difficult to merge the two cohesively, the best example I know of has already been mention and that is Arcanum.

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    • Arcanum is and ok example. But I can't imagine TES' world being so... industrialized. Is there a way we can have the scientific advancement, sans industrial revolution? haha

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    • If they make TES industrial it will basically turn into the game Dishonored.

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    • Yeah well except more open worldy and less parkoury... Oh wait! PArkour could be a feature! *Gets Falcon Punched by forum*

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    • Hamsterlampglade wrote:
      Yeah well except more open worldy and less parkoury... Oh wait! PArkour could be a feature! *Gets Falcon Punched by forum*

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcLEZ1ZlFzQ

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    • I wouldn't complain if TES took some influence from Dishonored in it's stealth and sword play. Also let's just copy the finishing moves from that game directly into the next TES game, those finishing moves were awesome.

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      I wouldn't complain if TES took some influence from Dishonored in it's stealth and sword play. Also let's just copy the finishing moves from that game directly into the next TES game, those finishing moves were awesome.

      Gotta agree with that. Though stealth should follow a more Deus Ex route.

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    • Any studio that borrows too heavily from their separate IPs to make each one is a studio that has no creativity or drive.  Those studios usually make games in the realm of just okay and almost never win Game of the Year or top sales (exception being the Call of Duty franchise because the average FPSer doesn't know what makes a game really good and just follows the crowd).

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    • PsijicThief wrote:
      Any studio that borrows too heavily from their separate IPs to make each one is a studio that has no creativity or drive.  Those studios usually make games in the realm of just okay and almost never win Game of the Year or top sales (exception being the Call of Duty franchise because the average FPSer doesn't know what makes a game really good and just follows the crowd).

      Well they don't necessarily have to copy from other games. Deus Ex has a very good stealth system because it's realistic, does that mean they are copying real life? Yes, when it comes down to it almost all RPG try to make immerse you with some type of realism, some excel better than others in certain things. So what they could do is try to make a stealth system similar to or better than Deus Ex, by doing this they wouldn't be copying Deus Ex they would be copying real life.

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    • i am happy with elder scrolls. they dont need technology at all. besides we humans took almost 8000 years using copper and metal before the industrial revolution started...

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    • Deus Ex isn't their own IP . . . and real life isn't anyone's IP . . . this statement has almost nothing to do with my actual point, although I understand what you mean.  Neverwinter Online has, in my opinion, the best stealth system for a fantasyRPG (even if it is an MMO) out there.  ESO is borrowing slightly on the idea by making stealth cost Stamina, and in NW you have a stealth meter that drains.  Stealth is funny in games, everyone has this grand idea of how it's going to work when they make it and then it changes with mechanics and basic implimentation.  In-game stealth is rarely the same as in-developement stealth, lol.

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    • Deus ex stealth?You mean hide in fridges lol?I wanted a dwmer sentry gun that fire explosives bolts or fist weapon like steel claws or your feet lol

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    • now fist weapons, that is something I could get behind.

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    • Nothing wrong with the extendo-boxing glove, it's always a classic!

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    • PsijicThief wrote:
      Nothing wrong with the extendo-boxing glove, it's always a classic!

      Knock that mast right off Miraak's face. 

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    • PsijicThief wrote:
      Nothing wrong with the extendo-boxing glove, it's always a classic!

      We'll punch Alduin all the way into Fallout.

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    • Giant boxing glove? Dragon? Punching into the distance?  I feel a WoW reference coming on!

      "I'm gonna punch that dragon in the face!"

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    • I'm sure Mr. House will find a way to weaponize Alduin or make a profit from him.

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    • Th3Antioch wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      Nothing wrong with the extendo-boxing glove, it's always a classic!
      We'll punch Alduin all the way into Fallout.

      We'll punch Alduin all the way to Brink. Then no one will ever see him again.

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    • Banneram wrote:
      .**Gunpowder weaponry already exist in TES lore, there are shore batteries on Stros Mkai and I am fairly certain of a reference to portable muskets on Yokuda at one point. Several navies use cannons on their ships, yet there is one simple thing stagnating most technology.**(EDIT: I cannot for the life of me find the sources for this information, so for the moment disregard this first bit of information till I find it)** Necessity is the mother of invention, and magic has supplanted a lot of the roles that would require technological innovation.

      Now there has been great strides in the magical world since it has been first studied. Major research has gone to explore the realms of Oblivion, Aetherius, and the Void. See the Mannonauts, Sunbirds of Alinor, and the expeditions of the Reman Dynasty.

      When enchanting first began, people were using souls willy nilly and accidentally opened themselves up to extreme Daedric corruption. Look to the book Feyfolken for an example there.

      Scientific refinement is happening in the TES world, just not in the steam punk/electronic vein of thought. If ever a time came where this would begin to happen, I hope it is done extremely carefully. It is difficult to merge the two cohesively, the best example I know of has already been mention and that is Arcanum.

      Yeah, that one reference to gunpowder weaponry, Sentinel army apparently possessed cannons. Both the information about the siege of Craghold and the mention of cannons come from the book Jokes. It would be cool to see and Tamriel should remain in the medieval environment.

      The ancient firearms would have worked well with the Nords of Skyrim, because Nords against the use of magic. Warriors like the Redguards/Nords don't use magic and view mages as weaklings.

      I can certainly see Dwarven-ish, primitive steam-powered wooden machines made by Calcelmo, and probably more along the lines of a siege engine or a explosive catapult, À la Army Of Darkness movie.

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    • Now that I think about it, there is a quest in Skyrim where you help reopen the East Empire Company. Long story short, you assault this island and they use what is supposed to be cannon fire to destroy the island. It looks more like Alduin's fireball things but whatever. 

      It should be limited to cannons though. Let's just say the magic that binds Mundus together wouldn't allow an explosion in such a small metal area, like the barrel of a gun.

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    • VAULTEER wrote:
      Now that I think about it, there is a quest in Skyrim where you help reopen the East Empire Company. Long story short, you assault this island and they use what is supposed to be cannon fire to destroy the island. It looks more like Alduin's fireball things but whatever. 

      It should be limited to cannons though. Let's just say the magic that binds Mundus together wouldn't allow an explosion in such a small metal area, like the barrel of a gun.

      Thats a catapult.


      There was an airship in Morrowind, but we never got to see it flying of course. The guy who asks the Nerevar to visit Solstheim had it. To me it seems like technology is moving backwards...in Morrowind crossbows were common, yet they weren't in Cyrodil at all and only in the hands of the Dawnguard in Skyrim.


      Even the Dawnguard have to rediscover how to make Dwemer crossbows, which had been around for hundreds of years in Morrowind.

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    • How'd they use catapults on a ship floating on water? Wouldn't the ship rock so violently due to the force of the launch? And how would it fit on to the boat? Pretty sure the ones at the Siege of Windhelm were longer than the ship was wide.

      Not to mention I didn't see any.

      And there were no islands nearby.

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    • There should be a storyline where the Redguards smuggling the gunpowders and cannons into Skyrim. That be cool and funny to see.

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    • VAULTEER wrote:
      How'd they use catapults on a ship floating on water? Wouldn't the ship rock so violently due to the force of the launch? And how would it fit on to the boat? Pretty sure the ones at the Siege of Windhelm were longer than the ship was wide.

      Not to mention I didn't see any.

      And there were no islands nearby.

      In real life, before cannons, catapults and bastilas were common place on the deck of a ship. especially in large battles and/or sieges.

      Not many people know, but the bottom of a ship where it tapers to a point, the last 3 to 10 feet of that (depending on the size of the ship) was filled with solid lead all along the length of the ship to stabilize it.. Otherwise no ship would be stable no matter what weapons they had on board. So it wouldn't be a problem. In reality cannons were more challenging to have on  ships in their early days because of the amount of force exerted on the recoil. 

      So yeah those were probably small catapults and/or bastilas.

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    • Also this thread has spiraled way off topic somehow haha. 

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    • You can download the tech mod on Steam/Nexus you know, don't have to wait until Bethesda introduce it in the next game. Add technology into your game.

      I have tried a musket, auto crossbow, steampunk home mod, seems nice. Need a robot follower though.

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    • I'd be perfectly happy if TES VI was only a little bit better with graphics, if that meant we can have cities that are actually the size of cities, and actual full scale battles. 

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      I'd be perfectly happy if TES VI was only a little bit better with graphics, if that meant we can have cities that are actually the size of cities, and actual full scale battles. 

      No freaking way that's happening, maybe in ten years.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      I'd be perfectly happy if TES VI was only a little bit better with graphics, if that meant we can have cities that are actually the size of cities, and actual full scale battles. 
      No freaking way that's happening, maybe in ten years.

      It could happen. If any developer these days could show some damn restraint when it comes to graphics. 

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      I'd be perfectly happy if TES VI was only a little bit better with graphics, if that meant we can have cities that are actually the size of cities, and actual full scale battles. 
      No freaking way that's happening, maybe in ten years.
      It could happen. If any developer these days could show some damn restraint when it comes to graphics. 

      A real city could end up being around the size of ingame Skyrim, imagine trying to make cities that large, not only would consoles and computers need to be able to play them without exploding, but they would also have to make large amounts of 3d models and interior cells that would just end up taking way too long and costing way too much.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      I'd be perfectly happy if TES VI was only a little bit better with graphics, if that meant we can have cities that are actually the size of cities, and actual full scale battles. 
      No freaking way that's happening, maybe in ten years.
      It could happen. If any developer these days could show some damn restraint when it comes to graphics. 
      A real city could end up being around the size of ingame Skyrim, imagine trying to make cities that large, not only would consoles and computers need to be able to play them without exploding, but they would also have to make large amounts of 3d models and interior cells that would just end up taking way too long and costing way too much.

      I mispoke. I meant feel more like real cities, because as they are now, they barely feel like villages. More npcs and more buildings. I  don't need or want every single one to have dialogue. Just to make them feel more populated. The cities in Skyrim were very underwhelming. Especially Winterhold. I know, I know, The Great Colapse destroyed a good portion of it, and a lot of people left. There were 4 buildings though (not including the college). Four. Four isn't even a village, it's not even half a village. Dawnstar and Falkreath are almost as bad. Skyrim just fealt like there was only about 30 people living in the entire Province. There's actually more NPCs than that, I know, but that's what it felt like.

      So I vote they show some restraint with the graphics upgrades, and give us a better all around game instead.

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      I'd be perfectly happy if TES VI was only a little bit better with graphics, if that meant we can have cities that are actually the size of cities, and actual full scale battles. 
      No freaking way that's happening, maybe in ten years.
      It could happen. If any developer these days could show some damn restraint when it comes to graphics. 
      A real city could end up being around the size of ingame Skyrim, imagine trying to make cities that large, not only would consoles and computers need to be able to play them without exploding, but they would also have to make large amounts of 3d models and interior cells that would just end up taking way too long and costing way too much.
      I mispoke. I meant feel more like real cities, because as they are now, they barely feel like villages. More npcs and more buildings. I  don't need or want every single one to have dialogue. Just to make them feel more populated. The cities in Skyrim were very underwhelming. Especially Winterhold. I know, I know, The Great Colapse destroyed a good portion of it, and a lot of people left. There were 4 buildings though (not including the college). Four. Four isn't even a village, it's not even half a village. Dawnstar and Falkreath are almost as bad. Skyrim just fealt like there was only about 30 people living in the entire Province. There's actually more NPCs than that, I know, but that's what it felt like.

      So I vote they show some restraint with the graphics upgrades, and give us a better all around game instead.

      Ohhhh, then yes I completely agree with you. Winterhold was especially a let down. I'm pretty sure Winterhold was supposed to be the biggest city in Skyrim, not only did they make it tiny (even for a destroyed city) but they gave it no... pizzazz. The city looked exactly like every other village in Skyrim rather than the individualized look of Windhelm or Solitude, basically saying that when the city was large it was just a big village (unless the entire city was destroyed), and no walls... really Bethesda.  ಠ_ಠ

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    • the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.

      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).

        Loading editor
    • Not complaining about the direction the conversation has taken or anything, because the converation is still very interesting. But what the hell happened to this thread? lol. It seems to have taken a drastic turn at some pont.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).

      Yeah a magical wall would require a very high, completely consistant output of magicka. Not really possible. If there was a wall, it probably crumbled due to disrepair after everyone left. That's how I would explain it anyways. Stone and mortar walls in those kinds of constantly extreme weather conditions require a lot of upkeep. It would only take about 35-50 years for them to collapse. If there were even walls in the first place.

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    • I think before the great collapse, Winterhold wouldn't have needed walls because there were so many mages there to protect the city.

      And with the question of graphics, I'd be fine if Bethesda kept the graphics at Skyrim's level or just a little bit better, if only the cities had more people, and were slightly bigger (Like the cities in Oblivion). I can say that I know 90-97 percent of the people in Whiterun and what their role is. I can't say that about the residents of the Imperial City or Bruma in Oblivion, just to give an example.

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    • Th3Antioch wrote:
      I think before the great collapse, Winterhold wouldn't have needed walls because there were so many mages there to protect the city.


      ZakMarcus wrote:Stone and mortar walls in those kinds of constantly extreme weather conditions require a lot of upkeep. It would only take about 35-50 years for them to collapse 

      I find it hard to believe that the greatest city in Skyrim wouldn't have a wall just because it had a few mages, plus in TES: Arena it is shown having a wall.

      Regarding how long the walls would stay up you must take into account the fact that the walls of the ancient Nordic cities, for example Bromjunaar, still have there walls almost 100% intact most of these areas have been abandoned for around 4500 years. My guess is that these walls have some type of magic keeping them so intact, but if that is the case wouldn't the Winterhold walls still be there as it contains most of Skyrim's mages.

      Lets pretend the walls did collapse, wouldn't there still be rubble were they fell, or wouldn't the city tried to have salvage the pieces to create new things.

      The most believable answer to why Winterhold is walless (created a new word) is that Bethesda ran out of time, or they were being lazy.

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    • I thought most of Arena was randomized though.

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    • Th3Antioch wrote:
      I thought most of Arena was randomized though.

      I'm pretty sure the main dungeons and cities are hand built.

        Loading editor
    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Th3Antioch wrote:
      I thought most of Arena was randomized though.
      I'm pretty sure the main dungeons and cities are hand built.

      Correct.

        Loading editor
    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).

      Magics only temporary and wouldn't last long, see how long you can maintain your ward before being eaten by a dragon, or shouted by one those annoying Deathlords.

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    • TheGreenSabre wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).
      Magics only temporary and wouldn't last long, see how long you can maintain your ward before being eaten by a dragon, or shouted by one those annoying Deathlords.

      TheGreenSabre, AzuraKnight, and PsijicThief, my 3 favorite people in the forums for posts like this :D

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).
      Magics only temporary and wouldn't last long, see how long you can maintain your ward before being eaten by a dragon, or shouted by one those annoying Deathlords.
      TheGreenSabre, AzuraKnight, and PsijicThief, my 3 favorite people in the forums for posts like this :D

      ... I don't understand what you mean.

      And @ TheGreenSabre, Nightcaller Temple, Erundr was able to create a wall that lasted multiple magic walls, both before and after leaving the order(though the first one[in the dreamstride] was created with a soul gem) so a lasting magical barrier is not out of the question.

      And they may have also been conjured to look like regular stone walls, so that may be why they looked like that in Arena.

      Your move.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).
      Magics only temporary and wouldn't last long, see how long you can maintain your ward before being eaten by a dragon, or shouted by one those annoying Deathlords.
      TheGreenSabre, AzuraKnight, and PsijicThief, my 3 favorite people in the forums for posts like this :D
      ... I don't understand what you mean.

      And @ TheGreenSabre, Nightcaller Temple, Erundr was able to create a wall that lasted multiple magic walls, both before and after leaving the order(though the first one[in the dreamstride] was created with a soul gem) so a lasting magical barrier is not out of the question.

      And they may have also been conjured to look like regular stone walls, so that may be why they looked like that in Arena.

      Your move.

      Hmmmm... if what you say is true what if Shaldor did build the city with a spell, that might make him the most powerful mage ever.

        Loading editor
    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).
      Magics only temporary and wouldn't last long, see how long you can maintain your ward before being eaten by a dragon, or shouted by one those annoying Deathlords.
      TheGreenSabre, AzuraKnight, and PsijicThief, my 3 favorite people in the forums for posts like this :D
      ... I don't understand what you mean.

      And @ TheGreenSabre, Nightcaller Temple, Erundr was able to create a wall that lasted multiple magic walls, both before and after leaving the order(though the first one[in the dreamstride] was created with a soul gem) so a lasting magical barrier is not out of the question.

      And they may have also been conjured to look like regular stone walls, so that may be why they looked like that in Arena.

      Your move.

      Hmmmm... if what you say is true what if Shaldor did build the city with a spell, that might make him the most powerful mage ever.

      Can you imagine the size of the soul gems (you'd need many) that you would need to suround and entire city? Not to mention how often they'd need replacing. So you'd either be killing about 15 animals or 5 people almost daily, and that's a pretty low estimate. Not to mention the supply of soul gems needed. Now if it was a barrier they put up only when it was needed, it would be more believable. But then the defense would rely entirely by the defenders response time in activating it, a small squad could just enter the city a few days before the main attacking force arrives, and break or remove one of the soul gems, because all it would take is one soft spot. They could probably take out multiple soul gems as well sense you would need the probably about every 10 to 15 feet or so. A physical wall, maybe enhanced with magic, is just so much more practicle, and a lot less can go wrong. 

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    • I think if done right it wouldn't ruin the game, the universe, or the concept, it would just make it more indepth.. The only problem is they wouldn't do it right.

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    • VAULTEER wrote:
      War created engineering marvels in RL during the Medieval times, although most of it was to do with war. But beyond that nothing was ever really gained during the dark times, it was after the wars, during the Renaissance where tremendous non-military feats were performed. It was a mostly calm time, but only fueled the current state of the world. Rich get richer, poor get poorer, etc.

      Tamriel is still in those dark times where people fight for honour, victory, and general wealth instead of oil and "Freedom". They have everything they could need, people can make a fortune from one adventure, with no banks and police getting involved wondering where you found that pile of money. 

      The Renaissance was anything but peaceful. There were many wars, both in Europe and elsewhere. They were what fueled the changes in shipbuilding that allowed the "Age of Exploration" and greatly improved artillery and firearms.

      The last decades of the Renassiance also saw the start of the European colonial expansion and the associated wars.

        Loading editor
    • The best results would be a Medieval/Old West, not the ever-poorly-thought-out Medieval/High Tech.

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      How'd they use catapults on a ship floating on water? Wouldn't the ship rock so violently due to the force of the launch? And how would it fit on to the boat? Pretty sure the ones at the Siege of Windhelm were longer than the ship was wide.

      Not to mention I didn't see any.

      And there were no islands nearby.

      In real life, before cannons, catapults and bastilas were common place on the deck of a ship. especially in large battles and/or sieges.

      Not many people know, but the bottom of a ship where it tapers to a point, the last 3 to 10 feet of that (depending on the size of the ship) was filled with solid lead all along the length of the ship to stabilize it.. Otherwise no ship would be stable no matter what weapons they had on board. So it wouldn't be a problem. In reality cannons were more challenging to have on  ships in their early days because of the amount of force exerted on the recoil. 

      So yeah those were probably small catapults and/or bastilas.

      Yeah, ships used ballast during the age of sail, but nobody ponied up for tons of expensive lead; they used stones. The Spanish used to sail empty ships to Florida (which they owned), ballasted with large rocks which they dumped next to the dock when they took on their cargo of indigo, tobacco, or whatever.

      The rocks piled up at St. Augustine, Florida turned out to have a few with rubies in them. There was a brief ruby rush and some tried to trace the rocks to their orign, with no luck.

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).
      Magics only temporary and wouldn't last long, see how long you can maintain your ward before being eaten by a dragon, or shouted by one those annoying Deathlords.
      TheGreenSabre, AzuraKnight, and PsijicThief, my 3 favorite people in the forums for posts like this :D
      ... I don't understand what you mean.

      And @ TheGreenSabre, Nightcaller Temple, Erundr was able to create a wall that lasted multiple magic walls, both before and after leaving the order(though the first one[in the dreamstride] was created with a soul gem) so a lasting magical barrier is not out of the question.

      And they may have also been conjured to look like regular stone walls, so that may be why they looked like that in Arena.

      Your move.

      Hmmmm... if what you say is true what if Shaldor did build the city with a spell, that might make him the most powerful mage ever.
      Can you imagine the size of the soul gems (you'd need many) that you would need to suround and entire city? Not to mention how often they'd need replacing. So you'd either be killing about 15 animals or 5 people almost daily, and that's a pretty low estimate. Not to mention the supply of soul gems needed. Now if it was a barrier they put up only when it was needed, it would be more believable. But then the defense would rely entirely by the defenders response time in activating it, a small squad could just enter the city a few days before the main attacking force arrives, and break or remove one of the soul gems, because all it would take is one soft spot. They could probably take out multiple soul gems as well sense you would need the probably about every 10 to 15 feet or so. A physical wall, maybe enhanced with magic, is just so much more practicle, and a lot less can go wrong. 


      Plus wouldn't something like this be recorded somewhere, I mean a city surounded by a wall made completely of magic, that seems like something that would be well known. Also even if Shalidor had the power to conjure a wall around the city how many other mages after him would actually know how to keep it up.

        Loading editor
    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).
      Magics only temporary and wouldn't last long, see how long you can maintain your ward before being eaten by a dragon, or shouted by one those annoying Deathlords.
      TheGreenSabre, AzuraKnight, and PsijicThief, my 3 favorite people in the forums for posts like this :D
      ... I don't understand what you mean.

      And @ TheGreenSabre, Nightcaller Temple, Erundr was able to create a wall that lasted multiple magic walls, both before and after leaving the order(though the first one[in the dreamstride] was created with a soul gem) so a lasting magical barrier is not out of the question.

      And they may have also been conjured to look like regular stone walls, so that may be why they looked like that in Arena.

      Your move.

      Hmmmm... if what you say is true what if Shaldor did build the city with a spell, that might make him the most powerful mage ever.
      Can you imagine the size of the soul gems (you'd need many) that you would need to suround and entire city? Not to mention how often they'd need replacing. So you'd either be killing about 15 animals or 5 people almost daily, and that's a pretty low estimate. Not to mention the supply of soul gems needed. Now if it was a barrier they put up only when it was needed, it would be more believable. But then the defense would rely entirely by the defenders response time in activating it, a small squad could just enter the city a few days before the main attacking force arrives, and break or remove one of the soul gems, because all it would take is one soft spot. They could probably take out multiple soul gems as well sense you would need the probably about every 10 to 15 feet or so. A physical wall, maybe enhanced with magic, is just so much more practicle, and a lot less can go wrong. 

      Plus wouldn't something like this be recorded somewhere, I mean a city surounded by a wall made completely of magic, that seems like something that would be well known. Also even if Shalidor had the power to conjure a wall around the city how many other mages after him would actually know how to keep it up.

      Pretty much exactly what youjust said. You're smart, you can stay. haha.

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).
      Magics only temporary and wouldn't last long, see how long you can maintain your ward before being eaten by a dragon, or shouted by one those annoying Deathlords.
      TheGreenSabre, AzuraKnight, and PsijicThief, my 3 favorite people in the forums for posts like this :D
      ... I don't understand what you mean.

      And @ TheGreenSabre, Nightcaller Temple, Erundr was able to create a wall that lasted multiple magic walls, both before and after leaving the order(though the first one[in the dreamstride] was created with a soul gem) so a lasting magical barrier is not out of the question.

      And they may have also been conjured to look like regular stone walls, so that may be why they looked like that in Arena.

      Your move.

      Hmmmm... if what you say is true what if Shaldor did build the city with a spell, that might make him the most powerful mage ever.
      Can you imagine the size of the soul gems (you'd need many) that you would need to suround and entire city? Not to mention how often they'd need replacing. So you'd either be killing about 15 animals or 5 people almost daily, and that's a pretty low estimate. Not to mention the supply of soul gems needed. Now if it was a barrier they put up only when it was needed, it would be more believable. But then the defense would rely entirely by the defenders response time in activating it, a small squad could just enter the city a few days before the main attacking force arrives, and break or remove one of the soul gems, because all it would take is one soft spot. They could probably take out multiple soul gems as well sense you would need the probably about every 10 to 15 feet or so. A physical wall, maybe enhanced with magic, is just so much more practicle, and a lot less can go wrong. 

      Plus wouldn't something like this be recorded somewhere, I mean a city surounded by a wall made completely of magic, that seems like something that would be well known. Also even if Shalidor had the power to conjure a wall around the city how many other mages after him would actually know how to keep it up.
      Pretty much exactly what youjust said. You're smart, you can stay. haha.

      Not exactly sure what you mean.

        Loading editor
    • It was a joke haha.

        Loading editor
    • DarthOrc wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      War created engineering marvels in RL during the Medieval times, although most of it was to do with war. But beyond that nothing was ever really gained during the dark times, it was after the wars, during the Renaissance where tremendous non-military feats were performed. It was a mostly calm time, but only fueled the current state of the world. Rich get richer, poor get poorer, etc.

      Tamriel is still in those dark times where people fight for honour, victory, and general wealth instead of oil and "Freedom". They have everything they could need, people can make a fortune from one adventure, with no banks and police getting involved wondering where you found that pile of money. 

      The Renaissance was anything but peaceful. There were many wars, both in Europe and elsewhere. They were what fueled the changes in shipbuilding that allowed the "Age of Exploration" and greatly improved artillery and firearms.

      The last decades of the Renassiance also saw the start of the European colonial expansion and the associated wars.

      Wars bring about technology changes by showing a need in the field. Tanks were talked about before the war, as a kind of moving fortress. But the war made industry creat a way to make them work. Airplanes had military uses before WWI. The first ones were used as scouts, watching enemy movements or finding enemy positions. The first attempts to put machine-guns on aircraft tended to shoot the propellers off the hostile aircraft, Not good at 1000 feet, or at any altitude. So they developed a way to make the weapon's fire in sync with the propellers.

      Since the age of industrialization, there has been so much new technology in every war. Tanks, submarines, artillery, airplanes saw their introduction. Many of these things already existed, but research and development were greatly increased. In WWII, radio communications, flight technology, missile technology, refrigeration, nuclear/atomic all saw their international premiere as a commercial technology shortly after. The Cold War technology included everything regarding the "space age", including further advancement of radios, introduction of computers, satellite communications, et cetera.

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:

      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).
      Magics only temporary and wouldn't last long, see how long you can maintain your ward before being eaten by a dragon, or shouted by one those annoying Deathlords.
      TheGreenSabre, AzuraKnight, and PsijicThief, my 3 favorite people in the forums for posts like this :D
      ... I don't understand what you mean.

      And @ TheGreenSabre, Nightcaller Temple, Erundr was able to create a wall that lasted multiple magic walls, both before and after leaving the order(though the first one[in the dreamstride] was created with a soul gem) so a lasting magical barrier is not out of the question.

      And they may have also been conjured to look like regular stone walls, so that may be why they looked like that in Arena.

      Your move.

      Hmmmm... if what you say is true what if Shaldor did build the city with a spell, that might make him the most powerful mage ever.

      Can you imagine the size of the soul gems (you'd need many) that you would need to suround and entire city? Not to mention how often they'd need replacing. So you'd either be killing about 15 animals or 5 people almost daily, and that's a pretty low estimate. Not to mention the supply of soul gems needed. Now if it was a barrier they put up only when it was needed, it would be more believable. But then the defense would rely entirely by the defenders response time in activating it, a small squad could just enter the city a few days before the main attacking force arrives, and break or remove one of the soul gems, because all it would take is one soft spot. They could probably take out multiple soul gems as well sense you would need the probably about every 10 to 15 feet or so. A physical wall, maybe enhanced with magic, is just so much more practicle, and a lot less can go wrong. 

      I can see that lad, giant soul gams be like generators for the magical barriers, but for a short time before you need to recharge it again with souls. Dwemer use similiar stuff, but without magic for the power/electrity.

        Loading editor
    • TheGreenSabre wrote:

      ZakMarcus wrote:

      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).
      Magics only temporary and wouldn't last long, see how long you can maintain your ward before being eaten by a dragon, or shouted by one those annoying Deathlords.
      TheGreenSabre, AzuraKnight, and PsijicThief, my 3 favorite people in the forums for posts like this :D
      ... I don't understand what you mean.

      And @ TheGreenSabre, Nightcaller Temple, Erundr was able to create a wall that lasted multiple magic walls, both before and after leaving the order(though the first one[in the dreamstride] was created with a soul gem) so a lasting magical barrier is not out of the question.

      And they may have also been conjured to look like regular stone walls, so that may be why they looked like that in Arena.

      Your move.

      Hmmmm... if what you say is true what if Shaldor did build the city with a spell, that might make him the most powerful mage ever.
      Can you imagine the size of the soul gems (you'd need many) that you would need to suround and entire city? Not to mention how often they'd need replacing. So you'd either be killing about 15 animals or 5 people almost daily, and that's a pretty low estimate. Not to mention the supply of soul gems needed. Now if it was a barrier they put up only when it was needed, it would be more believable. But then the defense would rely entirely by the defenders response time in activating it, a small squad could just enter the city a few days before the main attacking force arrives, and break or remove one of the soul gems, because all it would take is one soft spot. They could probably take out multiple soul gems as well sense you would need the probably about every 10 to 15 feet or so. A physical wall, maybe enhanced with magic, is just so much more practicle, and a lot less can go wrong. 
      I can see that lad, giant soul gams be like generators for the magical barriers, but for a short time before you need to recharge it again with souls. Dwemer use similiar stuff, but without magic for the power/electrity.

      Well, yeah, but also all it would take is a few guys to push the soul gem/gems out of alignment. It's just to easy to sabatoge. Physical walls enhanced with magic is as far as I see it going.

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      There is an absolute TON of interest to the Dwemer and their machinery in-game, you would think they would try to do something practical with it, even if it is a jury-rigged mess, it's a start to making Farming easier than picking. Imagine....an entire field of Wheat, instead of the large garden that most farms have. The population would grow nicely with more resources, which I want out of the future games. The population feels so small in Skyrim, and yet so much time has passed since the last Atmoran came.
      I KNOW!!! It seem's like everyone is hoarding Dwemer tech, and studying the Dwemer themselves, but no one seems to give a skeever's ass about the practical applications. And I think if the mer and men of Tamriel could make some progress in that area, then the Sload would make great antagonist's in TES VI. Maybe not the Sload as a whole, but maybe a group or faction of them trying to do something nafarious. They're arguably the most magically and technologically advanced race that's still in existance as far as we know, but they're almost never even brought up.


      Of course, playable Sload would also be interesting.

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      TheGreenSabre wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).
      Magics only temporary and wouldn't last long, see how long you can maintain your ward before being eaten by a dragon, or shouted by one those annoying Deathlords.
      TheGreenSabre, AzuraKnight, and PsijicThief, my 3 favorite people in the forums for posts like this :D
      ... I don't understand what you mean.

      And @ TheGreenSabre, Nightcaller Temple, Erundr was able to create a wall that lasted multiple magic walls, both before and after leaving the order(though the first one[in the dreamstride] was created with a soul gem) so a lasting magical barrier is not out of the question.

      And they may have also been conjured to look like regular stone walls, so that may be why they looked like that in Arena.

      Your move.

      Hmmmm... if what you say is true what if Shaldor did build the city with a spell, that might make him the most powerful mage ever.
      Can you imagine the size of the soul gems (you'd need many) that you would need to suround and entire city? Not to mention how often they'd need replacing. So you'd either be killing about 15 animals or 5 people almost daily, and that's a pretty low estimate. Not to mention the supply of soul gems needed. Now if it was a barrier they put up only when it was needed, it would be more believable. But then the defense would rely entirely by the defenders response time in activating it, a small squad could just enter the city a few days before the main attacking force arrives, and break or remove one of the soul gems, because all it would take is one soft spot. They could probably take out multiple soul gems as well sense you would need the probably about every 10 to 15 feet or so. A physical wall, maybe enhanced with magic, is just so much more practicle, and a lot less can go wrong. 

      Azura's star, anyone?

        Loading editor
    • Dagrkhaz wrote: Azura's star, anyone?

      Yes, that probably would be strong enough to work for a permenantly stable shield(even if it's moved a bit[it would probably take an earthquake to move it enough to put out the shield])

      But there is no way we would have not heard about that.

        Loading editor
    • Pink Slim wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote: Azura's star, anyone?
      Yes, that probably would be strong enough to work for a permenantly stable shield(even if it's moved a bit[it would probably take an earthquake to move it enough to put out the shield])

      But there is no way we would have not heard about that.

      Yeah, we'd know about that. But also if I'm not mistaken, the Great Collapse happened in between Oblivion and Skyrim (200 years). Which means Winterhold was intact during the events of Oblivion, in which you could obtain Azura's Star. So there goes that theory.

      Edit: "The Great Collapse was a geological event that devastated Winterhold. In 4E 122."  Taken from The Great Collapse wiki page.

      So yeah it's a good bit of time after oblivion, meaning while Winterhold was still intact, the Hero of Kvatch had the star. It couldn't have been there

        Loading editor
    • Dagrkhaz wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      There is an absolute TON of interest to the Dwemer and their machinery in-game, you would think they would try to do something practical with it, even if it is a jury-rigged mess, it's a start to making Farming easier than picking. Imagine....an entire field of Wheat, instead of the large garden that most farms have. The population would grow nicely with more resources, which I want out of the future games. The population feels so small in Skyrim, and yet so much time has passed since the last Atmoran came.
      I KNOW!!! It seem's like everyone is hoarding Dwemer tech, and studying the Dwemer themselves, but no one seems to give a skeever's ass about the practical applications. And I think if the mer and men of Tamriel could make some progress in that area, then the Sload would make great antagonist's in TES VI. Maybe not the Sload as a whole, but maybe a group or faction of them trying to do something nafarious. They're arguably the most magically and technologically advanced race that's still in existance as far as we know, but they're almost never even brought up.

      Of course, playable Sload would also be interesting.

      Yeah but it wouldn't happen, Sload have a hard time moving around on land. Movement and travel in game would be a big problem.

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      There is an absolute TON of interest to the Dwemer and their machinery in-game, you would think they would try to do something practical with it, even if it is a jury-rigged mess, it's a start to making Farming easier than picking. Imagine....an entire field of Wheat, instead of the large garden that most farms have. The population would grow nicely with more resources, which I want out of the future games. The population feels so small in Skyrim, and yet so much time has passed since the last Atmoran came.
      I KNOW!!! It seem's like everyone is hoarding Dwemer tech, and studying the Dwemer themselves, but no one seems to give a skeever's ass about the practical applications. And I think if the mer and men of Tamriel could make some progress in that area, then the Sload would make great antagonist's in TES VI. Maybe not the Sload as a whole, but maybe a group or faction of them trying to do something nafarious. They're arguably the most magically and technologically advanced race that's still in existance as far as we know, but they're almost never even brought up.

      Of course, playable Sload would also be interesting.
      Yeah but it wouldn't happen, Sload have a hard time moving around on land. Movement and travel in game would be a big problem.

      True, but it would still be interesting.

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote: Azura's star, anyone?
      Yes, that probably would be strong enough to work for a permenantly stable shield(even if it's moved a bit[it would probably take an earthquake to move it enough to put out the shield])

      But there is no way we would have not heard about that.

      Yeah, we'd know about that. But also if I'm not mistaken, the Great Collapse happened in between Oblivion and Skyrim (200 years). Which means Winterhold was intact during the events of Oblivion, in which you could obtain Azura's Star. So there goes that theory.

      Edit: "The Great Collapse was a geological event that devastated Winterhold. In 4E 122."  Taken from The Great Collapse wiki page.

      So yeah it's a good bit of time after oblivion, meaning while Winterhold was still intact, the Hero of Kvatch had the star. It couldn't have been there


      Well, Winterhold was founded during the First Era, while the Star wasn't obtainable until Daggerfall, which took place in the Third Era, leaving ample time for it to sustain a magical wall around the city. Of course, it would probably have been stolen somehow, leading the city defenseless against the cause of the great collapse.

        Loading editor
    • Dagrkhaz wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote: Azura's star, anyone?
      Yes, that probably would be strong enough to work for a permenantly stable shield(even if it's moved a bit[it would probably take an earthquake to move it enough to put out the shield])

      But there is no way we would have not heard about that.

      Yeah, we'd know about that. But also if I'm not mistaken, the Great Collapse happened in between Oblivion and Skyrim (200 years). Which means Winterhold was intact during the events of Oblivion, in which you could obtain Azura's Star. So there goes that theory.

      Edit: "The Great Collapse was a geological event that devastated Winterhold. In 4E 122."  Taken from The Great Collapse wiki page.

      So yeah it's a good bit of time after oblivion, meaning while Winterhold was still intact, the Hero of Kvatch had the star. It couldn't have been there


      Well, Winterhold was founded during the First Era, while the Star wasn't obtainable until Daggerfall, which took place in the Third Era, leaving ample time for it to sustain a magical wall around the city. Of course, it would probably have been stolen somehow, leading the city defenseless against the cause of the great collapse.

      I just think we would know about something like a magical shield around Winterhold. There isn't anything about that on here, and not even on the Imperial Library .

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote: Azura's star, anyone?
      Yes, that probably would be strong enough to work for a permenantly stable shield(even if it's moved a bit[it would probably take an earthquake to move it enough to put out the shield])

      But there is no way we would have not heard about that.

      Yeah, we'd know about that. But also if I'm not mistaken, the Great Collapse happened in between Oblivion and Skyrim (200 years). Which means Winterhold was intact during the events of Oblivion, in which you could obtain Azura's Star. So there goes that theory.

      Edit: "The Great Collapse was a geological event that devastated Winterhold. In 4E 122."  Taken from The Great Collapse wiki page.

      So yeah it's a good bit of time after oblivion, meaning while Winterhold was still intact, the Hero of Kvatch had the star. It couldn't have been there


      Well, Winterhold was founded during the First Era, while the Star wasn't obtainable until Daggerfall, which took place in the Third Era, leaving ample time for it to sustain a magical wall around the city. Of course, it would probably have been stolen somehow, leading the city defenseless against the cause of the great collapse.
      I just think we would know about something like a magical shield around Winterhold. There isn't anything about that on here, and not even on the Imperial Library .

      Exactly a magical wall seems like a detail that wouldn't be left out of the lore. The culprit of Winterhold not having a wall is Bethesda's laziness in the matter.

        Loading editor
    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote: Azura's star, anyone?
      Yes, that probably would be strong enough to work for a permenantly stable shield(even if it's moved a bit[it would probably take an earthquake to move it enough to put out the shield])

      But there is no way we would have not heard about that.

      Yeah, we'd know about that. But also if I'm not mistaken, the Great Collapse happened in between Oblivion and Skyrim (200 years). Which means Winterhold was intact during the events of Oblivion, in which you could obtain Azura's Star. So there goes that theory.

      Edit: "The Great Collapse was a geological event that devastated Winterhold. In 4E 122."  Taken from The Great Collapse wiki page.

      So yeah it's a good bit of time after oblivion, meaning while Winterhold was still intact, the Hero of Kvatch had the star. It couldn't have been there


      Well, Winterhold was founded during the First Era, while the Star wasn't obtainable until Daggerfall, which took place in the Third Era, leaving ample time for it to sustain a magical wall around the city. Of course, it would probably have been stolen somehow, leading the city defenseless against the cause of the great collapse.
      I just think we would know about something like a magical shield around Winterhold. There isn't anything about that on here, and not even on the Imperial Library .
      Exactly a magical wall seems like a detail that wouldn't be left out of the lore. The culprit of Winterhold not having a wall is Bethesda's laziness in the matter.

      Well it's not so much lazyness as much as they upped the graphics a whole lot, at the cost of being able to have more structures and characters rendered at any given time. Not worth it in my opinion.

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote: Azura's star, anyone?
      Yes, that probably would be strong enough to work for a permenantly stable shield(even if it's moved a bit[it would probably take an earthquake to move it enough to put out the shield])

      But there is no way we would have not heard about that.

      Yeah, we'd know about that. But also if I'm not mistaken, the Great Collapse happened in between Oblivion and Skyrim (200 years). Which means Winterhold was intact during the events of Oblivion, in which you could obtain Azura's Star. So there goes that theory.

      Edit: "The Great Collapse was a geological event that devastated Winterhold. In 4E 122."  Taken from The Great Collapse wiki page.

      So yeah it's a good bit of time after oblivion, meaning while Winterhold was still intact, the Hero of Kvatch had the star. It couldn't have been there


      Well, Winterhold was founded during the First Era, while the Star wasn't obtainable until Daggerfall, which took place in the Third Era, leaving ample time for it to sustain a magical wall around the city. Of course, it would probably have been stolen somehow, leading the city defenseless against the cause of the great collapse.
      I just think we would know about something like a magical shield around Winterhold. There isn't anything about that on here, and not even on the Imperial Library .
      Exactly a magical wall seems like a detail that wouldn't be left out of the lore. The culprit of Winterhold not having a wall is Bethesda's laziness in the matter.
      Well it's not so much lazyness as much as they upped the graphics a whole lot, at the cost of being able to have more structures and characters rendered at any given time. Not worth it in my opinion.

      They could have just made the city it's own interior like the other large cities, that cuts down almost all of the heavy rendering.

        Loading editor
    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote: Azura's star, anyone?
      Yes, that probably would be strong enough to work for a permenantly stable shield(even if it's moved a bit[it would probably take an earthquake to move it enough to put out the shield])

      But there is no way we would have not heard about that.

      Yeah, we'd know about that. But also if I'm not mistaken, the Great Collapse happened in between Oblivion and Skyrim (200 years). Which means Winterhold was intact during the events of Oblivion, in which you could obtain Azura's Star. So there goes that theory.

      Edit: "The Great Collapse was a geological event that devastated Winterhold. In 4E 122."  Taken from The Great Collapse wiki page.

      So yeah it's a good bit of time after oblivion, meaning while Winterhold was still intact, the Hero of Kvatch had the star. It couldn't have been there


      Well, Winterhold was founded during the First Era, while the Star wasn't obtainable until Daggerfall, which took place in the Third Era, leaving ample time for it to sustain a magical wall around the city. Of course, it would probably have been stolen somehow, leading the city defenseless against the cause of the great collapse.
      I just think we would know about something like a magical shield around Winterhold. There isn't anything about that on here, and not even on the Imperial Library .
      Exactly a magical wall seems like a detail that wouldn't be left out of the lore. The culprit of Winterhold not having a wall is Bethesda's laziness in the matter.
      Well it's not so much lazyness as much as they upped the graphics a whole lot, at the cost of being able to have more structures and characters rendered at any given time. Not worth it in my opinion.
      They could have just made the city it's own interior like the other large cities, that cuts down almost all of the heavy rendering.

      But even the walled cities that are their own worldspace aren't very big. Large villages more like. 

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      Dagrkhaz wrote: Azura's star, anyone?
      Yes, that probably would be strong enough to work for a permenantly stable shield(even if it's moved a bit[it would probably take an earthquake to move it enough to put out the shield])

      But there is no way we would have not heard about that.

      Yeah, we'd know about that. But also if I'm not mistaken, the Great Collapse happened in between Oblivion and Skyrim (200 years). Which means Winterhold was intact during the events of Oblivion, in which you could obtain Azura's Star. So there goes that theory.

      Edit: "The Great Collapse was a geological event that devastated Winterhold. In 4E 122."  Taken from The Great Collapse wiki page.

      So yeah it's a good bit of time after oblivion, meaning while Winterhold was still intact, the Hero of Kvatch had the star. It couldn't have been there


      Well, Winterhold was founded during the First Era, while the Star wasn't obtainable until Daggerfall, which took place in the Third Era, leaving ample time for it to sustain a magical wall around the city. Of course, it would probably have been stolen somehow, leading the city defenseless against the cause of the great collapse.
      I just think we would know about something like a magical shield around Winterhold. There isn't anything about that on here, and not even on the Imperial Library .
      Exactly a magical wall seems like a detail that wouldn't be left out of the lore. The culprit of Winterhold not having a wall is Bethesda's laziness in the matter.
      Well it's not so much lazyness as much as they upped the graphics a whole lot, at the cost of being able to have more structures and characters rendered at any given time. Not worth it in my opinion.
      They could have just made the city it's own interior like the other large cities, that cuts down almost all of the heavy rendering.
      But even the walled cities that are their own worldspace aren't very big. Large villages more like.

      I see them almost as large castles, the most annoying part is that places like Winterhold are like 3 buildings... WTF Bethesda

        Loading editor
    • Well, because you can cast a fireball in TES universe, no-one would feel the need to build a contraption that essentially does the same, but all of Skyrims weaponry is exactly the same as Oblivion (apart from crossbows - IF you have the DLC). But since there was heavy armor in Oblivion one would expect to see the development of armor-piercing conventional weaponry in Skyrim. I do hope the next TES has spears, pikes and halberds..

        Loading editor
    • 77.172.125.107 wrote:
      Well, because you can cast a fireball in TES universe, no-one would feel the need to build a contraption that essentially does the same, but all of Skyrims weaponry is exactly the same as Oblivion (apart from crossbows - IF you have the DLC). But since there was heavy armor in Oblivion one would expect to see the development of armor-piercing conventional weaponry in Skyrim. I do hope the next TES has spears, pikes and halberds..

      there were crossbows in Morrowind.

        Loading editor
    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      77.172.125.107 wrote:
      Well, because you can cast a fireball in TES universe, no-one would feel the need to build a contraption that essentially does the same, but all of Skyrims weaponry is exactly the same as Oblivion (apart from crossbows - IF you have the DLC). But since there was heavy armor in Oblivion one would expect to see the development of armor-piercing conventional weaponry in Skyrim. I do hope the next TES has spears, pikes and halberds..
      there were crossbows in Morrowind.

      Halberds, spears, and pikes aren't suppose to be armor piercing, thats the job of blunt weapons such as mauls, hammers, and maces. Halberds, spears, and pikes were made for vanguards and anti-cavalry.

        Loading editor
    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      77.172.125.107 wrote:
      Well, because you can cast a fireball in TES universe, no-one would feel the need to build a contraption that essentially does the same, but all of Skyrims weaponry is exactly the same as Oblivion (apart from crossbows - IF you have the DLC). But since there was heavy armor in Oblivion one would expect to see the development of armor-piercing conventional weaponry in Skyrim. I do hope the next TES has spears, pikes and halberds..
      there were crossbows in Morrowind.
      Halberds, spears, and pikes aren't suppose to be armor piercing, thats the job of blunt weapons such as mauls, hammers, and maces. Halberds, spears, and pikes were made for vanguards and anti-cavalry.

      Yeah, spears in TES VI maybe, if they're done right. But Halberds and Pikes are mean't to be used together by a group of people/soldiers, you being the lone adventurer would have no practical use for a Pike or a Halberd. It's more likely to get you killed than to actually help 

        Loading editor
    • 'Although primarily a military weapon, the pike could be surprisingly effective in single combat and a number of 16th-century sources explain how it was to be used in a dueling situation' These weapons came in a wide range of adaptations designed to damage plate armors. But you are are right that battle formations were usually used to enhance their effectiveness, something i'd like to see in TES, as opposed to the hopelessly chaotic Empire vs Stormcloak battles.

        Loading editor
    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      77.172.125.107 wrote:
      Well, because you can cast a fireball in TES universe, no-one would feel the need to build a contraption that essentially does the same, but all of Skyrims weaponry is exactly the same as Oblivion (apart from crossbows - IF you have the DLC). But since there was heavy armor in Oblivion one would expect to see the development of armor-piercing conventional weaponry in Skyrim. I do hope the next TES has spears, pikes and halberds..
      there were crossbows in Morrowind.
      Halberds, spears, and pikes aren't suppose to be armor piercing, thats the job of blunt weapons such as mauls, hammers, and maces. Halberds, spears, and pikes were made for vanguards and anti-cavalry.

      The Mongols used silk armors and light weapons, silk is a very tough fibre. If arrows are shot from a far distance, they will not easily penetrate the silk. Even if an arrow penetrates their flesh, the silk may hold, so that the arrow can be drawn out from the wound by pulling the silk around. This would also prevent poison from entering the bloodstream. Outside the normal clothes, the warrior carried a protective shield of light yet effective leather armor, which was impregnated with a lacquer-like substance in order to make it more impervious to penetration by European/Afghan/Chinese arrows and swords, and also to protect it against humid weather.

      In addition to the light weaponry described above, after the advent of Chingis they built up a light artillery equipped with javelin-throwers and catapults of different types, which might be disassembled and loaded on pack horses or on a two-wheeled wagon. These advanced weapons were the inventions of Chinese engineers who were enlisted in Chingis Khan's service. Somewhat later, during and after the campaign against Chorasmia, the Mongols acquired ballistae, which were like extremely large crossbows that could shoot large big arrows over more than 320 meters with considerable precision, with devastating effect on a battlefield. Also, the Mongol army used trebuchet-like catapults that could hurl heavy rocks with great impact against a city wall or a fortress.

      And a wise leader. That's how they conquered Eurasia.

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    • Nazul Rostello wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      77.172.125.107 wrote:
      Well, because you can cast a fireball in TES universe, no-one would feel the need to build a contraption that essentially does the same, but all of Skyrims weaponry is exactly the same as Oblivion (apart from crossbows - IF you have the DLC). But since there was heavy armor in Oblivion one would expect to see the development of armor-piercing conventional weaponry in Skyrim. I do hope the next TES has spears, pikes and halberds..
      there were crossbows in Morrowind.
      Halberds, spears, and pikes aren't suppose to be armor piercing, thats the job of blunt weapons such as mauls, hammers, and maces. Halberds, spears, and pikes were made for vanguards and anti-cavalry.
      The Mongols used silk armors and light weapons, silk is a very tough fibre. If arrows are shot from a far distance, they will not easily penetrate the silk. Even if an arrow penetrates their flesh, the silk may hold, so that the arrow can be drawn out from the wound by pulling the silk around. This would also prevent poison from entering the bloodstream. Outside the normal clothes, the warrior carried a protective shield of light yet effective leather armor, which was impregnated with a lacquer-like substance in order to make it more impervious to penetration by European/Afghan/Chinese arrows and swords, and also to protect it against humid weather.

      In addition to the light weaponry described above, after the advent of Chingis they built up a light artillery equipped with javelin-throwers and catapults of different types, which might be disassembled and loaded on pack horses or on a two-wheeled wagon. These advanced weapons were the inventions of Chinese engineers who were enlisted in Chingis Khan's service. Somewhat later, during and after the campaign against Chorasmia, the Mongols acquired ballistae, which were like extremely large crossbows that could shoot large big arrows over more than 320 meters with considerable precision, with devastating effect on a battlefield. Also, the Mongol army used trebuchet-like catapults that could hurl heavy rocks with great impact against a city wall or a fortress.

      And a wise leader. That's how they conquered Eurasia.

      Also if I remember correctly, Mongols had specially designed saddles that actually made them more acurate while shooting a bow while on horseback, as well as the fact that the Mongol composite bow was even more superior than the English longbow.

      Though Ballistas and Trebutchets were common in medieval Europe.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Nazul Rostello wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      77.172.125.107 wrote:
      Well, because you can cast a fireball in TES universe, no-one would feel the need to build a contraption that essentially does the same, but all of Skyrims weaponry is exactly the same as Oblivion (apart from crossbows - IF you have the DLC). But since there was heavy armor in Oblivion one would expect to see the development of armor-piercing conventional weaponry in Skyrim. I do hope the next TES has spears, pikes and halberds..
      there were crossbows in Morrowind.
      Halberds, spears, and pikes aren't suppose to be armor piercing, thats the job of blunt weapons such as mauls, hammers, and maces. Halberds, spears, and pikes were made for vanguards and anti-cavalry.
      The Mongols used silk armors and light weapons, silk is a very tough fibre. If arrows are shot from a far distance, they will not easily penetrate the silk. Even if an arrow penetrates their flesh, the silk may hold, so that the arrow can be drawn out from the wound by pulling the silk around. This would also prevent poison from entering the bloodstream. Outside the normal clothes, the warrior carried a protective shield of light yet effective leather armor, which was impregnated with a lacquer-like substance in order to make it more impervious to penetration by European/Afghan/Chinese arrows and swords, and also to protect it against humid weather.

      In addition to the light weaponry described above, after the advent of Chingis they built up a light artillery equipped with javelin-throwers and catapults of different types, which might be disassembled and loaded on pack horses or on a two-wheeled wagon. These advanced weapons were the inventions of Chinese engineers who were enlisted in Chingis Khan's service. Somewhat later, during and after the campaign against Chorasmia, the Mongols acquired ballistae, which were like extremely large crossbows that could shoot large big arrows over more than 320 meters with considerable precision, with devastating effect on a battlefield. Also, the Mongol army used trebuchet-like catapults that could hurl heavy rocks with great impact against a city wall or a fortress.

      And a wise leader. That's how they conquered Eurasia.

      Also if I remember correctly, Mongols had specially designed saddles that actually made them more acurate while shooting a bow while on horseback, as well as the fact that the Mongol composite bow was even more superior than the English longbow.

      Though Ballistas and Trebutchets were common in medieval Europe.

      BUT There is a lot more that needs to be fixed or tweaked in the TES series, a lot of which I would prioritize way above pikes halberds and spears.

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Nazul Rostello wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      77.172.125.107 wrote:
      Well, because you can cast a fireball in TES universe, no-one would feel the need to build a contraption that essentially does the same, but all of Skyrims weaponry is exactly the same as Oblivion (apart from crossbows - IF you have the DLC). But since there was heavy armor in Oblivion one would expect to see the development of armor-piercing conventional weaponry in Skyrim. I do hope the next TES has spears, pikes and halberds..
      there were crossbows in Morrowind.
      Halberds, spears, and pikes aren't suppose to be armor piercing, thats the job of blunt weapons such as mauls, hammers, and maces. Halberds, spears, and pikes were made for vanguards and anti-cavalry.
      The Mongols used silk armors and light weapons, silk is a very tough fibre. If arrows are shot from a far distance, they will not easily penetrate the silk. Even if an arrow penetrates their flesh, the silk may hold, so that the arrow can be drawn out from the wound by pulling the silk around. This would also prevent poison from entering the bloodstream. Outside the normal clothes, the warrior carried a protective shield of light yet effective leather armor, which was impregnated with a lacquer-like substance in order to make it more impervious to penetration by European/Afghan/Chinese arrows and swords, and also to protect it against humid weather.

      In addition to the light weaponry described above, after the advent of Chingis they built up a light artillery equipped with javelin-throwers and catapults of different types, which might be disassembled and loaded on pack horses or on a two-wheeled wagon. These advanced weapons were the inventions of Chinese engineers who were enlisted in Chingis Khan's service. Somewhat later, during and after the campaign against Chorasmia, the Mongols acquired ballistae, which were like extremely large crossbows that could shoot large big arrows over more than 320 meters with considerable precision, with devastating effect on a battlefield. Also, the Mongol army used trebuchet-like catapults that could hurl heavy rocks with great impact against a city wall or a fortress.

      And a wise leader. That's how they conquered Eurasia.

      Also if I remember correctly, Mongols had specially designed saddles that actually made them more acurate while shooting a bow while on horseback, as well as the fact that the Mongol composite bow was even more superior than the English longbow.

      Though Ballistas and Trebutchets were common in medieval Europe.

      BUT There is a lot more that needs to be fixed or tweaked in the TES series, a lot of which I would prioritize way above pikes halberds and spears.

      Such as... CITIES

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    • Could TES IV take place throughout Tamriel? Not like ZeniMax did it but like... Having full control of where you go and what you would see? And maybe Parkour being a thing... Like climbing walls and trees

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    • Hamsterlampglade wrote:
      Could TES IV take place throughout Tamriel? Not like ZeniMax did it but like... Having full control of where you go and what you would see? And maybe Parkour being a thing... Like climbing walls and trees

      Take a look at the scope of the world that Dragon Age Inquisition is going to have. On top of how gorgeous the game looks. I have high hopes for this console generation. Seriously read this article. If BioWare can do it, so can BGS

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      Nazul Rostello wrote:

      The Mongols used silk armors and light weapons, silk is a very tough fibre. If arrows are shot from a far distance, they will not easily penetrate the silk. Even if an arrow penetrates their flesh, the silk may hold, so that the arrow can be drawn out from the wound by pulling the silk around. This would also prevent poison from entering the bloodstream. Outside the normal clothes, the warrior carried a protective shield of light yet effective leather armor, which was impregnated with a lacquer-like substance in order to make it more impervious to penetration by European/Afghan/Chinese arrows and swords, and also to protect it against humid weather.

      In addition to the light weaponry described above, after the advent of Chingis they built up a light artillery equipped with javelin-throwers and catapults of different types, which might be disassembled and loaded on pack horses or on a two-wheeled wagon. These advanced weapons were the inventions of Chinese engineers who were enlisted in Chingis Khan's service. Somewhat later, during and after the campaign against Chorasmia, the Mongols acquired ballistae, which were like extremely large crossbows that could shoot large big arrows over more than 320 meters with considerable precision, with devastating effect on a battlefield. Also, the Mongol army used trebuchet-like catapults that could hurl heavy rocks with great impact against a city wall or a fortress.

      And a wise leader. That's how they conquered Eurasia.

      Also if I remember correctly, Mongols had specially designed saddles that actually made them more acurate while shooting a bow while on horseback, as well as the fact that the Mongol composite bow was even more superior than the English longbow.

      Though Ballistas and Trebutchets were common in medieval Europe.

      Yes. special saddles that look like seats, making it easier and accurate for the archer.

      In my opinion, the composite bow is a horseback's bow, designed to maximize the initial velocity of the arrow rather than for power. Mongols use considerably lighter arrows than warbows, which works with the speed of the bow at the expense of the power it transfers when it finally hits. The English longbow is a six-foot long warbow intended to be used from a stationary, standing position and designed for power. It shoots much heavier arrows designed to transfer maximum energy to the target.

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    • Hamsterlampglade wrote: Could TES IV take place throughout Tamriel? Not like ZeniMax did it but like... Having full control of where you go and what you would see? And maybe Parkour being a thing... Like climbing walls and trees

      Grand Theft Auto: Tamriel?

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    • Hamsterlampglade wrote:
      Could TES IV take place throughout Tamriel? Not like ZeniMax did it but like... Having full control of where you go and what you would see? And maybe Parkour being a thing... Like climbing walls and trees

      so kinda like daggerfall? 

      they should really remake arena and daggerfall. better graphics, controls, voice acting, etc.

      same storyline and such though.

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    • NO! I'm saying different storylines and full ability to traverse... Maybe a skeleton based battle system with dismemberment

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    • Hamsterlampglade wrote:
      NO! I'm saying different storylines and full ability to traverse... Maybe a skeleton based battle system with dismemberment

      A full Tamriel would take too long to do, unless you want repetitive quests, cities, and NPCs.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Hamsterlampglade wrote:
      NO! I'm saying different storylines and full ability to traverse... Maybe a skeleton based battle system with dismemberment
      A full Tamriel would take too long to do, unless you want repetitive quests, cities, and NPCs.

      Not really, unless the entire continent is one worldspace, which would be insane. They could do it up how it's gonna be in DA Inquisition. Large open worldspaces for each country/province and/or region. "Seamless" is great, but not at the cost of everything else, which I think was part of the problem with Skyrim, that and they upped the graphics by sacrificing the amount of buildings and NPCs can be rendered at once. 

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Hamsterlampglade wrote:
      NO! I'm saying different storylines and full ability to traverse... Maybe a skeleton based battle system with dismemberment
      A full Tamriel would take too long to do, unless you want repetitive quests, cities, and NPCs.

      If Elder Scrolls ends up creating a game in each province the could thread them together.

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Hamsterlampglade wrote:
      NO! I'm saying different storylines and full ability to traverse... Maybe a skeleton based battle system with dismemberment
      A full Tamriel would take too long to do, unless you want repetitive quests, cities, and NPCs.
      Not really, unless the entire continent is one worldspace, which would be insane. They could do it up how it's gonna be in DA Inquisition. Large open worldspaces for each country/province and/or region. "Seamless" is great, but not at the cost of everything else, which I think was part of the problem with Skyrim, that and they upped the graphics by sacrificing the amount of buildings and NPCs can be rendered at once. 

      My point is that each city will need it's own unique architecture, each province would need it's own unique flora, creatures, and dungeon types. Then in each of these provinces your going to want interesting NPCs, with unique dialogue, and unrepetitive voice acting (which Skyrim alone was failing at). Then your going to want unrepetitive quests that aren't boring.

      It has nothing to do with how computers and consoles are able to play it, it is the fact that creating all these things would take a very large amount of time and money.

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    • T_T If you just simply put a loading zone in between each province that isn't breaking i.e. Carriage to Cyrodiil from Skyrim Camel from Hammerfell to... Province near Hammerfell

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    • For the location if they can't do all of tamriel please do valenwood or hammerfell.

      And yes they should improve the technology.In morrowind there is crossbows,tes:skyrim is more than 200 years later the should have repeater crossbows by now,especially if you count the dwemer having crossbow centuries before morrowwind.They should also have spears one handed and two handed.

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    • You should know that if you research TES enough you can find examples of high tech outside the Dwemer, and more advanced. Sunbirds are Altmer starships, and made out of the sun (quite literally, they even got sun cannons), the Imperial Mananauts are astronauts, and the Septim Empire had Warspores (starships) and Battlespires (space stations), and even a colony on Masser. Reman I tried to colonize Secunda using a Mothship (a starship shaped literally like a gigantic moth). Keep in mind that they traverse Oblivion in TES space travel, not outer space as we know it. They can reach even Aetherius if they try enough.

      Pelinal is also a cyborg from the future and he had a laser hand. There are more examples, but I will keep them out cause , you know, people may come here shouting at me saying that this isn't canon... research well enough you know, 3rd Pocket Guide, the BATTLESPIRE game...

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    • If they added in guns or tech advancement elder scrolls wouldnt be the same

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    • 81.103.152.214 wrote:
      If they added in guns or tech advancement elder scrolls wouldnt be the same

      If they did we aren't gonna see it anytime soon. Just wait for it!!

      Know love to avoid Landfall.


      I ARE ALL WE.

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    • 88.18.12.161 wrote:
      You should know that if you research TES enough you can find examples of high tech outside the Dwemer, and more advanced. Sunbirds are Altmer starships, and made out of the sun (quite literally, they even got sun cannons), the Imperial Mananauts are astronauts, and the Septim Empire had Warspores (starships) and Battlespires (space stations), and even a colony on Masser. Reman I tried to colonize Secunda using a Mothship (a starship shaped literally like a gigantic moth). Keep in mind that they traverse Oblivion in TES space travel, not outer space as we know it. They can reach even Aetherius if they try enough.

      Pelinal is also a cyborg from the future and he had a laser hand. There are more examples, but I will keep them out cause , you know, people may come here shouting at me saying that this isn't canon... research well enough you know, 3rd Pocket Guide, the BATTLESPIRE game...

      Correction, there was only one battlespire. Also I would like to see where you got this info, I'm guessing Kirkbride stuff?

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      88.18.12.161 wrote:
      You should know that if you research TES enough you can find examples of high tech outside the Dwemer, and more advanced. Sunbirds are Altmer starships, and made out of the sun (quite literally, they even got sun cannons), the Imperial Mananauts are astronauts, and the Septim Empire had Warspores (starships) and Battlespires (space stations), and even a colony on Masser. Reman I tried to colonize Secunda using a Mothship (a starship shaped literally like a gigantic moth). Keep in mind that they traverse Oblivion in TES space travel, not outer space as we know it. They can reach even Aetherius if they try enough.

      Pelinal is also a cyborg from the future and he had a laser hand. There are more examples, but I will keep them out cause , you know, people may come here shouting at me saying that this isn't canon... research well enough you know, 3rd Pocket Guide, the BATTLESPIRE game...

      Correction, there was only one battlespire. Also I would like to see where you got this info, I'm guessing Kirkbride stuff?

      Sword meetings, Song of Pelinal, Battlespire, 3rd Pocket Guide... you know.

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    • Still, there were more than one Battlespire. You didn't see them, but that is another thing and Hjaalti used them regularly. They are still space stations, well, void stations technically

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    • I smell fecal matter.

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    • i detect with my nostrils bovine fecal matter.

      (i smell bullshit)

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    • 88.18.12.161 wrote:
      Still, there were more than one Battlespire. You didn't see them, but that is another thing and Hjaalti used them regularly. They are still space stations, well, void stations technically

      If there was more than one Battlespire why was it such a big deal when "the" Battlespire got destroyed?

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      88.18.12.161 wrote:
      Still, there were more than one Battlespire. You didn't see them, but that is another thing and Hjaalti used them regularly. They are still space stations, well, void stations technically
      If there was more than one Battlespire why was it such a big deal when "the" Battlespire got destroyed?


      For all we know, it was the last one left.

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    • Dagrkhaz wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      88.18.12.161 wrote:
      Still, there were more than one Battlespire. You didn't see them, but that is another thing and Hjaalti used them regularly. They are still space stations, well, void stations technically
      If there was more than one Battlespire why was it such a big deal when "the" Battlespire got destroyed?

      For all we know, it was the last one left.

      I'm pretty damn sure the Battlespire was one of a kind.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      Dagrkhaz wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      88.18.12.161 wrote:
      Still, there were more than one Battlespire. You didn't see them, but that is another thing and Hjaalti used them regularly. They are still space stations, well, void stations technically
      If there was more than one Battlespire why was it such a big deal when "the" Battlespire got destroyed?

      For all we know, it was the last one left.

      I'm pretty damn sure the Battlespire was one of a kind.

      The point stands. The Empire had a space station. Pelinal was a cyborg. The Altmer have starships. Now come and say Tamriel is technologically stagnant because you don't see this magi-tech in-game.

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    • 50.33.213.167 wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      Now that I think about it, there is a quest in Skyrim where you help reopen the East Empire Company. Long story short, you assault this island and they use what is supposed to be cannon fire to destroy the island. It looks more like Alduin's fireball things but whatever. 

      It should be limited to cannons though. Let's just say the magic that binds Mundus together wouldn't allow an explosion in such a small metal area, like the barrel of a gun.

      Thats a catapult.


      There was an airship in Morrowind, but we never got to see it flying of course. The guy who asks the Nerevar to visit Solstheim had it. To me it seems like technology is moving backwards...in Morrowind crossbows were common, yet they weren't in Cyrodil at all and only in the hands of the Dawnguard in Skyrim.


      Even the Dawnguard have to rediscover how to make Dwemer crossbows, which had been around for hundreds of years in Morrowind.

      Wow, now that I think about it, it kind of does seem like technology is moving backwards in TES.

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    • ...if technology is moving backwards is TES...

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    • soon enough we'll be fighting using only rocks for physical weapns and fire for magic, and not fire magic, but jsut plain fire.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      soon enough we'll be fighting using only rocks for physical weapns and fire for magic, and not fire magic, but jsut plain fire.

      Sounds fun!

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    • Why don't the Nords use mammoths like the Carthaginians and others used elephants?

      Why aren't there covered wagons/stage coaches?

      Why aren't there canoes?

      Why aren't there spears/halberds/pikes?

      Because the Dreamer hasn't dreamt them, that's why.

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    • but there were spears...

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    • Rukathesoldier wrote:
      but there were spears...

      In fact, the removal of spears hint at the increasing of current thinking capacity and bettering of practical arnaments, because a real spear is completely impractical for TES questing - try handling a 2 meter pole in a narrow corridor. In fact, most 2 handed weapons already seem like shortened, widened variants of their real life counterpart, better suited for CQC than horseback fighting (which battleaxes and warhammers were good for). Also, the one handed swords are more like broadswords than plain longswords, which give better slashing capability, another development for CQC (and street/alley fighting). Seeing that our protagonist is stuck with CQC most of the time, Beth just removed all the impractical weapons as it saved time and was lore friendly (using a spear or 2 hand weapon in a cave is infact very unfriendly to lore and physics - my 2 hand stuff clips through cave walls all the time.)

      If the weapons and armor unbreaking is taken at face value, also we can assume that smithing and enchanting techniques have improved, or we have nanite enhanced self repairing stuff

      Although technology does seem to be sliding backwards or not moving, which is pretty sad - imagine what could have been produced if the people contined researching what the dwemer left behind - Aetherium weapons and armor, already imbued with powerful effects and still enchantable, Numidium II and many more. Also, if they could warp soul gems to the power of the heart of lorkhan and stuff, imagine the weapons we (players) can make...

      Also, anyone wants a self powered carraige with a gatling (6 in a circle) array of fireball staves on top, mounted in a turret?

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    • I do wish we could have made real weapons out of the aetherium instead of a crappy staff/shield and the circlet. imagine an aetherium warhammer, bow, sword, just damn.

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    • This is the ideaology of a humble passerby.

      I believe that the time period the planet of Nirn is in is currently, in accordance with out own time like, akin to the High Middle Ages or somewhere around that area.

      With the Great War, and a future battle between the Storkcloak Army and the Aldmeri Dominion, there is bound to be intercontinental war to occur. With strife comes advancement, and as the nords of Skyrim seem to be the 'good guys', my septims are put on the Stormcloaks to come out on top.

      Now, why might this aid in technological advancement?

      Well, Skyrim's Nords are already paranoid of magic users and their craft as it is. I do not believe their armies will be utilizing magic for warfare at all against the Empire or the Elves. The enemy will be using magic however. So, the Nords, who do not like magic usage, wish to defeat magic using empires and dominions. They turn to the Dawnguard, who's usage of Dwemer Technology could have increased with the usage of the Dwemer Crossbows, found by the Dragonborn in the Dawnguard questline. With the plans the Dawnguard have, as well as readings and studies from Calcelmo, the Markarth Dwemer afficionado, they could potentially achieve technology of a Steam level with several years time- even less if the war is demanding, and they need weapons fast.

      Now, with this advancement in mind, the Stormcloaks begin to utilize these steam powered mechanisms to create mechanics to aide them on the field of battle. Nordic Centurions, Sphere Guardians, and so on. The Aldmeri won't stand a chance.

      With the age of peace that follows this war, the Nords wish to use their newfound Dwemer technology for other uses. As such, they begin to introduce the dwemer style of living into the homes of Skyrim, such as steam-powered lights, and possibly in-door plumbing.

      With recent trading caravan attacks due to the war increasing sale prices dramatically, there came a debate to come up with a new system of transport for goods. Transport that would not only be protective, but will get the goods from place to place was fast as a caravan. Armored Caravans are a no go, as horses can only pull so much cargo and people. Boats are good, but steam powered boats might be too risky for the time being, what with pirates about. They needed a quicker transport that boats anyway.

      So, comes about the train system. A renaissance of travel appears, just like the old Oblivion mod, Dwemer Subways. 

      With this advancement, steam technology is becoming much more efficient. Whether or not it will advance as quickly afterwards into the realm of computational devices is probably debateable, as there are no signs of Ben Franklin yet. But, keep your eyes peeled. There might be an electromaniac genius out there in Tamriel somewhere. ^^

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    • Trains can be robbed quite easily. Pick a good spot, tear up or block some track, and wait for the train. (They figured that out in the "Old West" very shortly after they were introduced.)

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    • It technically isn't stagnant, it's just moving at an incredibly slow pace.

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    • There does seem to be 'advanced' technology in Tamriel.

      The Dwemer robots and machines are of course quite advanced for their time.

      Then there is that soul-consuming machine in the TES Novels. I think it's Lord of Souls.

      Tamriel's technology seems to be relatively advanced, but not in the same way like our Real World technology. The Dreamsleeve can, apparently, be used as somekind of Internet. The User needs to be in constant meditation to use it. They can also send "Memospores", Dreamsleeve E-Mails, basicly, to other people who use it. It's not artifical, but it's still some kind of technology they use.

      KINMUNE is a sentient robot out of the 16th (or 9th, I don't know for sure) Era that traveled back in time.

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    • i would like to see my dovagkiin stabing people with hidden blades.


      now that i think about it some should make a ac:revelations+skyrim hybrid.

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    • TES is a medieval-based High Fantasy universe. Technology does not advance in such universes. Take Star Wars, for example. It is a futuristic High Fantasy universe. In the thousands of years before, during and after the Old Republic, technology barely advances. For all intents and purposes, there basically always was and always will be starships and lasers and interstellar travel and that's it. We have to make some logical consessions for the sake of the integrity of the universe.

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    • VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      I couldn't agree more, on all of this, firstly, Skyrim should NEVER advance technologically, if TES did then it'd give it a whole new feel, that personally, would ruin the game. Secondly, yeah the cities feel dull, I remember the glory of entering the Imperial City in Oblivion, it was fantastic, and how I thought Solitude would be just as glorious - What a let down, well I do mod it for that reason, but mods are no excuse.

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    • Why aren't there generic npcs called farmer or townsfolk or something to make cities in the game feel more populated,why does the dragonborn know everyones name?!

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    • Let's not start a discussion on game engine limitations, that isn't the topic here.

      Quotebg
      "Morrowind was straight up sci-fi fantasy. I thought that was obvious. :)"
      Michael Kirkbride

      TES isn't exactly technologically stagnant, things are discovered over time. But it's clearly taken a different path than us. Why would they need gunpowder or steam engine if magic is much more proficient at doing all the tasks?

      We've got dream-net, cyborgs, mechs, robots, space ships and space stations... and laser-guns.

      It's just not real life tech, it's magi-tech.

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    • Ikabite wrote:. Why would they need gunpowder or steam engine if magic is much more proficient at doing all the tasks?

      We've got dream-net, cyborgs, mechs, robots, space ships and space stations... and laser-guns.

      It's just not real life tech, it's magi-tech.

      Arthur C. Clarke wrote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." (Clarke's Third Law)

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      I'd be perfectly happy if TES VI was only a little bit better with graphics, if that meant we can have cities that are actually the size of cities, and actual full scale battles. 

      Now you are talking my language! Maybe your vision is a little premature gien the amount of data involved, but I have a huge issue with games foucusing so many resources on cosmetics and sacrificing the gameplay fo it. Skyrim is a perfect example. I have played every major TES game since Daggerfall and felt gutted and backstabbed when I discoered how puny the cities were compared to the other games. WAY too watered down from everything to character stats to magic to, well everything. Lets get back to the old school, hardcore RPG setup of old instead of appeasing ten year olds and casual gamers. Real RPG gamers want in depth systems, not "my character can do eerything!" bs. So many issues with Skyrim. I have ten fingers people! Multiple rings please. Watering down these games further will just make me and other long time fans of your series not want to play them anymore.

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      the walls were probably magical(why use bricks and stones on walls when the mages can make walls out of thin air and you can use the unused materials on more homes?), they most likely disapeared because of the schism between the ruling power and the college.
      I don't think that even high elves have magical walls on there cities much less Nords. I mean yah I know it's said Shalidor built the city with a whispered spell but I'm pretty sure that is just hyperbole. Also wouldn't a wall of magic require a nonstop input of magic by many mages (for example the shield around Morokei).
      Yeah a magical wall would require a very high, completely consistant output of magicka. Not really possible. If there was a wall, it probably crumbled due to disrepair after everyone left. That's how I would explain it anyways. Stone and mortar walls in those kinds of constantly extreme weather conditions require a lot of upkeep. It would only take about 35-50 years for them to collapse. If there were even walls in the first place.

      Where are you coming up with those numbers?! We have roman structures that have been standing for numerous centuries, without magic (that I know of) Eer heard of the pyramids of Giza? Sure this is a fantasy realm, but rock doesn't just evaporate!

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    • Saying that any tech is rendered moot because of magic is just plain silly. Not eeryone in this world is magically inclines. It makes no sense for lowly commoners to be running around using spells to complete mundane tasks. Those people would want something to make their lies easier though. 

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    • Sheogorath Unholy wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      I couldn't agree more, on all of this, firstly, Skyrim should NEVER advance technologically, if TES did then it'd give it a whole new feel, that personally, would ruin the game. Secondly, yeah the cities feel dull, I remember the glory of entering the Imperial City in Oblivion, it was fantastic, and how I thought Solitude would be just as glorious - What a let down, well I do mod it for that reason, but mods are no excuse.

      I disagree. Although I dread the day that TES turns into some kind of steampunk wet dream, it doesn't have to be that extreme. I don't think the original posted even came close to suggesting it should be. If donw in a ery subtle way, I don't have a problem with it. A steam powered bath house in the imperial city perhaps like the romans had. Aquaducts, etc. There are plenty of ancient tech deices and such that TES could draw on as inspiration without turning it into a Will Smith Wild Wild West music video.

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    • Many people seem to totally ignore that there is advanced technology on Nirn, such as KINMUNE (Ok, It's from the 9th era, but still).

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      Many people seem to totally ignore that there is advanced technology on Nirn, such as KINMUNE (Ok, It's from the 9th era, but still).

      They don't ignore it. It's just that most people judge what's exists in the Elder Scrolls universe by what is actually in the game. And by those standards, they are correct as most of the weaponry, transportation, architecture, sciences, and magicks used in the 4th Era can easily be traced back to the 1st Era.

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    • There's also the Dreamsleeve which is used as the TES version of our Internet and there are the Memospores which are basicly E-Mails in TES.

      Then there's all the Dwemer tech.

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    • Richter Von Streed wrote:
      Sheogorath Unholy wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      I couldn't agree more, on all of this, firstly, Skyrim should NEVER advance technologically, if TES did then it'd give it a whole new feel, that personally, would ruin the game. Secondly, yeah the cities feel dull, I remember the glory of entering the Imperial City in Oblivion, it was fantastic, and how I thought Solitude would be just as glorious - What a let down, well I do mod it for that reason, but mods are no excuse.
      I disagree. Although I dread the day that TES turns into some kind of steampunk wet dream, it doesn't have to be that extreme. I don't think the original posted even came close to suggesting it should be. If donw in a ery subtle way, I don't have a problem with it. A steam powered bath house in the imperial city perhaps like the romans had. Aquaducts, etc. There are plenty of ancient tech deices and such that TES could draw on as inspiration without turning it into a Will Smith Wild Wild West music video.

      The OP has come back from the dead to agree with Richter Von Streed

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      There's also the Dreamsleeve which is used as the TES version of our Internet and there are the Memospores which are basicly E-Mails in TES.

      Then there's all the Dwemer tech.

      The Dwemer tech I'd agree with, but once again that was all built in the First Era. No telling what they could have built had they not disappeared, but the point is that between the in game technology has not changed much between the creation of Nirn and the end of Skyrim.

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    • Um KINMUNE is out of game lore made by Kirkbride who doesn't work on TES any longer. Its much like going and reading all the various Star wars novels out there, a lot are great stories but aren't going to be used in any movies. A lot of MK's stuff is great ideas but will never be used in the games. And again he's no longer working on TES. He is still very active in the community but he has since left Bethesda and no longer works for them, thus he no longer works on the games. 

      Now as for the topic, I think we will be seeing tech added to the TES series here soon, but not as one is thinking. I'd speculate that technology will be reintroduced to the people of Tamriel when the Dwemer return with there advances and are the next villians. 

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    • Bethesda uses his lore. Heimskrs dialogue and Waking Dreams are proof of this.

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    • Yes they use the lore he left behind when he quit. Why? because it is property of Bethesda and Zenimax. Its about ownership of concept. Bethesda allows MK to continue to write fanfiction on the TES series without fear of reprisal from Zenimax (i.e a lawsuit). However, just because he writes something today doesn't make it canon. He hopes that fans like yourself will want it to become canon so much co that Bethesda brings him back and hands him the TES series like he wanted back in Oblivion. I understand that you really like his work and thats great. But please stop trying to act like MK is the final answer to all that is TES, he isn't, not anymore. Instead maybe help him get his own company started. 

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    • Zephrim wrote:
      Yes they use the lore he left behind when he quit. Why? because it is property of Bethesda and Zenimax. Its about ownership of concept. Bethesda allows MK to continue to write fanfiction on the TES series without fear of reprisal from Zenimax (i.e a lawsuit). However, just because he writes something today doesn't make it canon. He hopes that fans like yourself will want it to become canon so much co that Bethesda brings him back and hands him the TES series like he wanted back in Oblivion. I understand that you really like his work and thats great. But please stop trying to act like MK is the final answer to all that is TES, he isn't, not anymore. Instead maybe help him get his own company started. 

      Alot of the MK lore Bethesda uses was made after he quit.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Zephrim wrote:
      Yes they use the lore he left behind when he quit. Why? because it is property of Bethesda and Zenimax. Its about ownership of concept. Bethesda allows MK to continue to write fanfiction on the TES series without fear of reprisal from Zenimax (i.e a lawsuit). However, just because he writes something today doesn't make it canon. He hopes that fans like yourself will want it to become canon so much co that Bethesda brings him back and hands him the TES series like he wanted back in Oblivion. I understand that you really like his work and thats great. But please stop trying to act like MK is the final answer to all that is TES, he isn't, not anymore. Instead maybe help him get his own company started. 
      Alot of the MK lore Bethesda uses was made after he quit.


      Yup. For example, the Godhead was (as far as I know) never mentioned in anything MK wrote while he was still a Bethesda employee. And yet, the Godhead is still mentioned in Waking Dreams.

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    • They own the rights to the game and all lore associated with it. They use it if they wish, however I would advise you all to look at TESO as that will be the best reflection of what direction the series is going to take. The thing is he's a former writter and artist for Bethesda. Bethesda owns the rights to TES, Zenimax owns Bethesda, so Zenimax owns TES, and it is Bethesda and Zenimax that have the ability (and ONLY them) to declare what is and isn't canon. There are new writters working on the series now, they are the ones that will be deciding the future of the series. More than likely they will continue to take Mr. Kirkbrides past contributions into acount and continue to expand on those ideas, however that isn't always the case, new writers often times mean new ideas and new directions. I am simply advising everyone to keep an open mind, and remember that Kirkbride does NOT work for Bethesda any longer and thus isn't a current writer and developer of the game. 

      Now to return to topic, as Im sure we can always make up a Mr. Kirkbride topic to debate on all day long if you like. 

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Richter Von Streed wrote:
      Sheogorath Unholy wrote:
      VAULTEER wrote:
      PsijicThief wrote:
      If even a small desire exists, there will be a mod for it.  I know of a few modders that make mods they don't even really want or play with just because it'll get them attention from another section of the community.  It's a desire of some, and I'm by no means knocking the want or dream, for what are we without dreams and wants?  My only complaint with the OP is the move to it for TES: VI.  Nobody in this thread has said anything wrong, though, I'll be the first to admit that.  Opinions are like farts, everybody has them!
      Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.*

      Seriously though, I just can't imagine TES with guns. I play Fallout for that.

      Fallout is a Post-Apocalyptic RPG, TES is a Medival Fantasy RPG, but they have the same amount people and towns living in it. I think the next TES should be a bit more busy, with carriages that transport officials to other cities for negotiations, and horseback patrols (Like in Oblivion). Along with villagers walking to large cities, like Riverwoodians going to Whiterun to visit the market, maybe rent a room to spend the night. Also "Cities" need to be bigger. The "Jewel of Skyrim" - Whiterun felt very disappointing, I'm pretty sure Solitude has more people in it.

      I couldn't agree more, on all of this, firstly, Skyrim should NEVER advance technologically, if TES did then it'd give it a whole new feel, that personally, would ruin the game. Secondly, yeah the cities feel dull, I remember the glory of entering the Imperial City in Oblivion, it was fantastic, and how I thought Solitude would be just as glorious - What a let down, well I do mod it for that reason, but mods are no excuse.
      I disagree. Although I dread the day that TES turns into some kind of steampunk wet dream, it doesn't have to be that extreme. I don't think the original posted even came close to suggesting it should be. If donw in a ery subtle way, I don't have a problem with it. A steam powered bath house in the imperial city perhaps like the romans had. Aquaducts, etc. There are plenty of ancient tech deices and such that TES could draw on as inspiration without turning it into a Will Smith Wild Wild West music video.
      The OP has come back from the dead to agree with Richter Von Streed

      Thanks. I hear you bro.

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    • I draw a big, thick line between "medieval fantasy" and "science-fiction". The Elder Scrolls has always been in the "medieval fantasy" category to me. Castles, magic, elves, swords, etc.

      Dwemer technology--electric lights, steam-powered constructs--I find myself okay with, because the Dwemer are no longer around and their creations are not prolific...just relics and ruins. That's how I'd prefer it to stay.

      Unfortunately for me, sometimes that big, thick line I draw can be blurred by things beyond my control.

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    • The Elder Scrolls will have muskets and an Industrial Era when Bethesda decides to introduce the Akaviri and their home Continent Akavir... *Cough* Which will be never *Cough*

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    • Xachz1999 wrote:
      The Elder Scrolls will have muskets and an Industrial Era when Bethesda decides to introduce the Akaviri and their home Continent Akavir... *Cough* Which will be never *Cough*

      Muskets and magic and Gods...sounds like WoW to me. How about instead they do Fallout invades TES? The BoS after recovering Enclave tech discovers a way to open a portal between worlds. They decide to invade this new mineral rich world. Screw muskets and flint locks, if they decide to tech out TES then give me Power Armor and a Plasma Rifle. Heck if its the power of a god to destory a city wait till they meet the nuclear arsenal. XD (hardly serious but I bet it made you grin at the thought)

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    • Zephrim wrote:
      Xachz1999 wrote:
      The Elder Scrolls will have muskets and an Industrial Era when Bethesda decides to introduce the Akaviri and their home Continent Akavir... *Cough* Which will be never *Cough*
      Muskets and magic and Gods...sounds like WoW to me. How about instead they do Fallout invades TES? The BoS after recovering Enclave tech discovers a way to open a portal between worlds. They decide to invade this new mineral rich world. Screw muskets and flint locks, if they decide to tech out TES then give me Power Armor and a Plasma Rifle. Heck if its the power of a god to destory a city wait till they meet the nuclear arsenal. XD (hardly serious but I bet it made you grin at the thought)

      Nah, but with the Dwemer and how scholars study it in TES, then we could actually hit an industrial age in the next TES or after... in 100 years from now because Bethesda is working on way to many projects. Hopefully they don't work on Fallout 4 until they have no other projects left so they can do what they did with Fallout 3 and TES... and that goes the same for TES VI

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    • Fallout 4 and Dishonored 2 are both already in production. But I don't expect to see F4 for another year. And they had other projects at the time they were working on Fallout 3, (WET and Rogue warrior, bet you forgot about those, among others, lots of people work for Bethesda working on lots of titles, and Beth is part of Zenimax which owns a ton of other game companies which all work together and not all of the work is on only games. Look up the board of directors for Zenimax you'll see what I'm talking about.) 

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    • I would HATE technology in TES it would just ruin the whole game. Guns take away armor and armor is cool. Also if you want technology play call of duty.

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    • Dwarven Dragon Hunter wrote:
      I would HATE technology in TES it would just ruin the whole game. Guns take away armor and armor is cool. Also if you want technology play call of duty.

      Technology =/= guns. And there already is technology, but no one uses it. The Dwemmer are gone, and the only ones who use any kind of technology on the level of the dwemmer, are the Sload. Also there are already rudamentary guns in TES lore. 

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dwarven Dragon Hunter wrote:
      I would HATE technology in TES it would just ruin the whole game. Guns take away armor and armor is cool. Also if you want technology play call of duty.
      Technology =/= guns. And there already is technology, but no one uses it. The Dwemmer are gone, and the only ones who use any kind of technology on the level of the dwemmer, are the Sload. Also there are already rudamentary guns in TES lore. 


      Sloads don't use advanced technology, and I've never heard of guns in the TES Universe.

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dwarven Dragon Hunter wrote:
      I would HATE technology in TES it would just ruin the whole game. Guns take away armor and armor is cool. Also if you want technology play call of duty.
      Technology =/= guns. And there already is technology, but no one uses it. The Dwemmer are gone, and the only ones who use any kind of technology on the level of the dwemmer, are the Sload. Also there are already rudamentary guns in TES lore. 

      Sloads don't use advanced technology, and I've never heard of guns in the TES Universe.

      Sloads use technology on or near the level of the dwemmer, powered mostly by magic rather than steam. They've got airships dude. And I should have said gunpowder weapon instead of guns, as Stros Mkai has shore batteries, and there has been vague stories of there being what sound like musket-like weapons on Yokuda, though the knowledge of their construction was lost. 

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    • I wouldn't say sload have the technology of the Dwemer, but yes, we do know they have airships due to this quote.

      Sload airships carrying corpses from Senchal.

      -Corpse Preparation, Book I

      Cannons do pop up in TES lore in rare occurrences, however I've never heard of muskets in the lore.

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    • ZakMarcus wrote:
      AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      ZakMarcus wrote:
      Dwarven Dragon Hunter wrote:
      I would HATE technology in TES it would just ruin the whole game. Guns take away armor and armor is cool. Also if you want technology play call of duty.
      Technology =/= guns. And there already is technology, but no one uses it. The Dwemmer are gone, and the only ones who use any kind of technology on the level of the dwemmer, are the Sload. Also there are already rudamentary guns in TES lore. 

      Sloads don't use advanced technology, and I've never heard of guns in the TES Universe.
      Sloads use technology on or near the level of the dwemmer, powered mostly by magic rather than steam. They've got airships dude. And I should have said gunpowder weapon instead of guns, as Stros Mkai has shore batteries, and there has been vague stories of there being what sound like musket-like weapons on Yokuda, though the knowledge of their construction was lost. 

      Sload airships, yes. Then again, the Altmer, Dunmer and Imperials use Airships too, not to mention that the Dunmer use Vehkships which are some form of Spaceshuttle, and that the Imperials use Battlespires which are orbital Spacebases in Oblivion. So that doesn't exactly make them special in any way.

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    • Dwarven Dragon Hunter wrote:
      Guns take away armor and armor is cool. 

      Not if the armor is magical...

      Also, when people said technology, I doubt they meant guns. 

      Come on, wouldn't people appreciate an Aetherium sword? Maybe a steam engine to do farm work? Or perhaps a better bow with exploding arrows?

      Technology dosen't have to be guns and anyway, I doubt a gun can shoot through daedric plate.

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    • The technology likely to be seen, if it comes, would be magic based.  I think of guns / lasers that only act as a magic magnifier than an alternative to using it . So guns aren't infeasable.

      The Dwemer likely understood this the best, as their technology relies on magic in a good number of cases. They would have magic canons / lasers as weapons if anyone.

      An interesting twist would be if a far future Elder Scrolls game saw the world of Nirn almost loose any & all sources of magic  ( Except the player of course !  ) .

      Then you would need to fight against more crossbow & seige-type weapons!

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    • 222.165.36.25 wrote:

      Or perhaps a better bow with exploding arrows?

      There are exploding bolts for crossbows: fire, frost and shock. (added by The Elder Scrolls V: Dawnguard).

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    • Well Tamriel has technology to a extent, in Skyrim there is Markarth, the city has dwemer technology. The Dwemer left a gift after they vanished from Tamriel, they machines and cities are preserved by dwemer scholars like Calcelmo, the High elf created such awesome museum dedicated to the dwemer. Tamriel is similar to The City from the Thief series, a mixture of magic and industrial machines.

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    • perhaps a gunlike that is just a longer ranged staff that fires spells but is hard to use at close range and has a scope

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    • With the right perks, bows and crossbows not only have a scope (zoom), they slow time. Plus, as we already said, there are exploding bolts. What more do you want?

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    • Draevan13 wrote:
      It's like this in almost every fantasy world, the land stays deadlocked in medieval times forever. It's not due to the people of Nirn being unwilling to change, it's because Bethesda wants to make medieval fantasy games, not steampunk and magic like Dishonored or Thief.

      Well technically, the Dwemer are the only race in TES who are/where steam punk. :p

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    • I think that TES should have a dwemer staff that shoots arrows or crossbow bolts, it'll be just like a gun but using magical essence/soul essence. It wouldn't have a scope, it would rather increase Alteration (because telekinesis) and archery, but only by 5% per use. And if maybe, TES added a a feature to let you make, discover or enhance technology, such as finding a dwemer cog and drawing a depiction in a journal, sending it to a person who will publish it and others will buy causing Skyrim to expand in technology.

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    • There would be no functional difference between staves that fired bolts/arrows and bows/crossbows. Staves already fire projectiles (ice spikes and fire bolts/balls) anyway.

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    • Some people say that technology in TES is moving backwards as the Dwemer's technology was steam-powered and had robots and crossbows and things like that, while Skyrim only had swords, axes, windmills, watermills and the like. This happened because the Dwemer not only disappeared, not all of their knowledge has been found. The Dwemer had this technology because maybe it was common back then, and the inhabitants of Tamriel just haven't found these. Technology is the making, modification, usage, and knowledge of tools, machines, etc. in order to solve a problem. The inhabitants of Tamriel have no guns, the internet, cellphones, etc. because they have no problems with the things they currently have. Bows and Crossbows are like guns; both are ranged weapons (although guns have more damage, but the inhabitants of Tamriel are fine with their ranged weapons.) They don't need things like starships because there is still enough space on Nirn. Most of Nirn is unexplored (The only other continents the public know of are Yokuda, Atmora, Akavir, Aldmeris, Pyandonea, and Thras.) 

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    • NO dont ruin the lore with guns and high tech crap for other races other then the dwemer, but they could make canons at least


      can they ?

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    • 2.50.195.193 wrote:
      NO dont ruin the lore with guns and high tech crap for other races other then the dwemer, but they could make canons at least


      can they ?

      As I said above, cannons do exist in TES lore.

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    • With the comforts of magick in the world, it seems the people of Tamriel have little need for technology. If the concept of magicka suddenly went out of the window, I'm fairly cetain that soon enough people would learn to create technogical marvels to mimic the effects of magick.

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    • Saratje wrote:
      With the comforts of magick in the world, it seems the people of Tamriel have little need for technology. If the concept of magicka suddenly went out of the window, I'm fairly cetain that soon enough people would learn to create technogical marvels to mimic the effects of magick.

      "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Clark's 1st Law (We've posted this before.)

      Perhaps Nirn's magic is actually highly advanced technology. Gene splicing and other biologic manipulations, producing the ability for the production of magica by the nervous system - the result of a highly developed bio-technology?

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    • I can tell you for a fact that the ancient Romans had all the metullurgical and physics knowledge they needed to make a simple steam engine. They just never thought of it. Why? Because the leisure-class gentlemen who had time to fool around with things like aeolipiles were not concerned with creating labor-saving devices. Need your boat to go faster? Get more slaves! Need to work your farm more efficiently? Get more slaves! They thought they already knew the answer, so they weren't looking for one. 

      I see Tamriel in the same light. They think they already know the answer to the question of greater empowerment: Magic. And even when scholars are reverse-engineering Dwemer artifacts, those same scholars are invariably mages themselves! They assume from minute one that only someone who understands magic could possibly understand the constructs of the dwarves. That's why they don't advance technologically, because they think they already know the answer. 

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    • Yes, those people that think they know it all are a real pain to those of us who really do!

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    • I think that would kill the gameplay. But I might see how SMALL leaps in technology might be cool, like cannons and such.

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    • As has been posted before, there are cannons in The Elder Scrolls. The Dragonborn can't interact with them, but can see them in action (sort of) at Japhet's Folly.

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    • Tamriel isn't totally technologically stagnant, and progression can vary from culture to culture. The Sload, for instance, have their airships, which is more impressive than real life medieval societies. Of course, Tamriel isn't in so much need to technologically advance because, as has frequently already been mentioned, of magic. As Böserup put it 'Necessity is the mother of invention' and the inhabitants of Tamriel can produce results through magical means rather than needing technology, such as for space travel (something relatively extent in human advancement, but achieved by Reman's Mananauts and Altmeri Sunbirds, among others).

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    • 173.217.113.178 wrote:
      I can tell you for a fact that the ancient Romans had all the metullurgical and physics knowledge they needed to make a simple steam engine. They just never thought of it. Why? Because the leisure-class gentlemen who had time to fool around with things like aeolipiles were not concerned with creating labor-saving devices. Need your boat to go faster? Get more slaves! Need to work your farm more efficiently? Get more slaves! They thought they already knew the answer, so they weren't looking for one. 

      I see Tamriel in the same light. They think they already know the answer to the question of greater empowerment: Magic. And even when scholars are reverse-engineering Dwemer artifacts, those same scholars are invariably mages themselves! They assume from minute one that only someone who understands magic could possibly understand the constructs of the dwarves. That's why they don't advance technologically, because they think they already know the answer. 

      I think this annonymous contributor put all of the greatest thoughts of this thread together in a nice way; this would realisticly be the most probable reason for why Tamriel is, supposedly, "technologically stagnant".

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    • In addition, I would add that I believe people tend to overestimate the rate at which technological progression would naturally occur in Tamriel, magic aside. Considering very little advancement was made in the early stages of anatomically modern humans, and that much of our technological progression began with the Industrial Revolution and the rise of Capitalism, it is not very surprising that the inhabitants of Tamriel do not have the same rate of advancement as we do in modern times.

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    • Well, there have been people who have tried to creat technology. Take, for example, Sotha Sil and his Fabricants. Or the Blackwood Company and their machinery. The people of Tamriel seem to distrust machinery, such as how in Oblivion in the journal it seemed to recognize the Blackwood Company's tachnology as an abomination of nature. And we know how the fabricants ended up, attacking Mournhold...that likely didn't establish much trust in technology either. The oly other real technology is Dwemer machinery, which is constantly trying to tear people to living shreds when they enter the ruins.

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    • Stop using magic as an excuse most of the citizens of tamriel don't have magic,warriors and such don't use magic,i'm not saying introduce guns but like i said before repeater crossbows,bolts that explode without magic(there are exploding traps in may ruins that use some kind of oil)and a few other small advances in non magic based tech would be appreciated.

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    • The point is, magic is Tamriel's replacement for technology. Rather than having top engineers, physicists etc, the role is facilitated by mages who have a deep understanding of the mechanics of the Aurbis. Some would find more technology useful, but there are less people who are willing and able to create them. Neccessity is the mother of invention, and there are already alternative uses in the form of magic, so there is not such a pressing need to create the mentioned technology, as the individual is still able to learn magic (even if they choose not to). Part of the reason, I would think, you would so appreciate a feature is because of your familiarity of it in the real world, but from a Tamrielic perspective, there is far less reason to attempt to make it more like our world. Things work differently in fantasy lands, and we do not need to make them more like real life when they function perfectly well how they are. 

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    • Not everbody is able to learn magic,either it's something their born with,or it work's in the way that technically unless you have some intellectual disability anyone can learn to be a brain surgeon but realistically no not everyone can some people just won't be able to.This is evidenced by distrust of magic,the Aspiring Mage saying the magic was in the staff not him,the fact that there's not many healers even in times of war when they're needed.There is a need for a few small advances in non-magic based technology for everyday use by citizen with no skills in magic,as well as for the soldiers of Hammerfell and Skyrim now that they are about to go to war with the more magically gifted Altmer and possibly even the Empire

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    • My point was, those in a position to guide such inventions are the ones without the need to do so. In addition, though, while not everyone learns magic, it still fills a void which stifles incentive to innovate. Could some peope benefit from such inventions? Of course, I am not denying that, but I can easily imagine others pointing out magic as a ready alternative (after the practice became more accessible) as reason not to do so. 

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    • Back to the starting topic, I feel technological advancements would help, perhaps something involving Kinetic Energy (Like Auriel's shield, it absorbs energy slowly, then explosively releases it.) or centrifugal forces.

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    • No they won't use technologic advancements. Just because of their believe and magic. In Europe it took to centuries to get the first steam machine. The Dwemer were more advenced in that.

      In Europe machines could to being more of use in the Middle Ages. Totally by the Black Death but it didn't just happend. Guns were too already a huge leap.

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    • Personally, I think the reason Tamriel is technologically stagnant is because it's actively kept that way by the Aedra and  Daedra. It's very clear at this point that while they are very powerful on their own, they want/need worship and faith from mortals. So for them to attempt to keep  mortals reliant on themselves and magic, as opposed to new technology, makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure how, but I also think this ties into them breeding champions and heroes in some kind of messed up, cosmic chess game, but that's another story.

      -A Friend

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    • A reason the Elder Scrolls series didn't advance in tech could be that no other group of people or other empires have interacted with Tamriel or the Summerset Iles. Japan didn't advance in technology until Europeans and Americans came to them.

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    • There's a typo on Isles... sorry

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    • 67.81.113.242 wrote:
      A reason the Elder Scrolls series didn't advance in tech could be that no other group of people or other empires have interacted with Tamriel or the Summerset Iles. Japan didn't advance in technology until Europeans and Americans came to them.

      Correction it begun all with England. Folllowed by Belgium on the mainland and so on it spreaded across the world. But it was also because we started to believe less in God and demons and more in science. This was the most important thing. Also the fact that no one seems to be intrested like the Dwemer in machines makes a difference.

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    • And on this they could horse-drawn ploughs, not to advanced, but good enough

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    • What about cannons? Not guns or anything but maybe some of the larger cities have cannons perched a top the walls or during a siege mission they use cannons instead of catapaults or use them along with catapaults. Maybe they make up some new substance intead of gunpowder or they use a different type of magic to power it. Fireworks would also make people and events more diverse and feel more dynamic.

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    • Look at history, it took a long time for anyone to find out what black powder actually did. I can guarantee you that if it was introduced to TES, it would almost never be used as a weapon. A alchemy ingredient yes, something mages throw at you to make their fire explode probably. Eventually someone would figure out fast moving steel items blown from the explosion does some damage, but it wouldn't amount to very much. The best black powder stuff you will ever see in TES that's remotely gun related are a few cannons every now and then, and maybe some explosive tipped arrows and bolts that take a nasty spin on enchanted or basic flaming arrows and bolts. Guns? I don't count on it, but honestly, gunpowder existing in the form of black powder may happen, since in itself it is a naturally occurring thing in the earth. All it takes is one careless miner to strike a vein with that pickaxe and BOOM! Everyone things an ancient evil is unleashed.

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    • Uh.... black powder is not a naturally occurring material. It is made by grinding and mixing sulfur, charcoal, and potassium nitrate. 

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    • Cannons are in Redguard and are mentioned in some books in Daggerfall, they definitly exist in the TES universe. If you enjoy OOG content you are probably aware of the Imperial Mananauts, Sunbirds, Vehkships and the Imperial colony on Masser. Technology in the TES universe is far more advanced than you probably realize. 

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    • Imperial Mananauts and Sunbirds of Alinor are from the 3rd Edition of the Pocket Guide and the Battlespire is literally in the game. The Dreamsleeve was often mentioned in the first two games. They aren't OOG.

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    • Why is everyone talking about technological advancement as if that has to involve an industrial revolution and the introduction of guns and computers? And is it really that unrealistic for this not to happen over night - does this make the elder scrolls universe "technologically stagnant"?

      Throughout history, before the industrial revolution, technological advancement wasn't as drastic as this. Most lay people probably wouldn't notice the difference in technology between time periods of Oblivion and Skyrim unless they look a great deal into this, as well as researching how technology has changed during the middle ages and antiquity. It's only really the introduction of more contemporary technology that most people would recognise as technological advancement. There may have been a great deal of advancement in areas like metallurgy, agriculture, and construction methods that aren't immediately obvious to most players (or in fact may not even be seen; we never see buildings being built, for example, so they could easily have moved from using ramps to pulleys without there being any evidence in the games).

      In fact, there is one possible area of advancement between the fourth and fifth Elder Scrolls game I can think of, with actual evidence in the game. In Skyrim there are sawmills you can use to cut wood, and I've also seen vertical windmills grind grain. I haven't seen anything like that in the previous Elder Scrolls games (although I could be wrong. For example, they may have been mentioned in a book I'm not aware of, or I could just not remember, or maybe they exist but there's just no evidence of them in the actual games). So there's a possible area of advancement; the use of wind and water power.

      So, TL;DR - Technological advancement doesn't necessarily mean suddenly going through an industrial revolution and developing steampunk technology. There are other ways to advance.

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