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  • Old Sheo said he may or may not fully become a god.

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    • Yep. You may have to show me proof that he didn't, because my mind is heavily set in that he did.

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    • He did indeed say that. Old Sheo told him that right before he became Jygalagg, that he will assume the title, but may or may not become a God do to not being daedric.

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    • Yes. He mantled him.

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    • Yes he did,and he is Sheogorath in Elder Scrolls V Skyrim.

      In skyrim he says "You know,I was there for that whole sordid affair.Marvelous time! Butterflies,blood, a Fox,a severed head...Oh,and the cheese! To die for.

      U see butterflies-When u enter shivering isles whole room turn in butterflies

      Blood-Blood of Aedra and Deadra for Martin's quest.

      Fox-Gray Fox from thiefs guild

      Severed head-head of Mathieu Bellamont's mother in Dark brotherhood quest.

      Cheese-Quest for Sheogorath in Oblivion,where u must steal all cheese from  khajiit's.

      Hero of Kvatch is Sheogorath is skyrim becouse he has his memoryes from oblivion

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    • Yeah, in canon that is how it turns out sadly. 

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    • i think u are forgetting that sheogorath is the prince of madness so he will confuse people and it is possible he is just trying to confuse the dragonborn

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    • Well, The Hero of Kvetch, or Champion of Cyrodiil, is crowned the new Sheogorath (how I love spelling that name)

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    • It is never said one way or another if he is or isn't It is kinda hinted at but Sheogorath is a wackado. It is up to the player if he is or he isn't untill its said out right in one of the games

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    • The thing is guys, the only reasonable counter-argument for the Hero of Kvatch not being the new Sheogorath is that Sheogorath could have very well have been watching the "Oblivion Crisis" the whole time. Even if he did he would not focus afterwards on the single aspect that is the Hero of Kvatch and follow him through the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild? It's not likely at all. It is then to be assumed that the DLC is canon to the story. If the player defeats Jyggalag then Jyggalag doesn't turn back into the Sheorgorath that we know in Oblivion again. Therefore the person that you are talking to in Skyrim is infact the Hero of Kvatch in Oblivion and has taken up the traits and personality of what Sheogorath is portrayed as. Don't try and completely disregard that fact purely based on being the god of "Madness"  because he does not return in Oblivion.

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    • i still stick with the thing that it is up to us to decide untill telderscrolls comes out  says it out right. I mean its an RPG so most of it is up to the player

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    • Yes he did.

      Stanley the Grapefruit from Passwall decreed it so.

      A bigger question though is what happened to everything the Hero accumulated through out the story. Though it would give some insight as to what happened to the Gray Cowl and Goldbrand.

      Though if you recreate your character in Skyrim you could say that someone else took your place as Sheogorath or that it never really happened and you drank to much Skooma.

      Side note: Drinking all the skooma found in the Bravil skooma den at once causes you too have super speed while also making you completely lose your magicka, possibly forever.

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    • I do think the issue, in part, depends on semantics and persective. Of course, the Hero of Kvatch undoubtedly mantled the Mad God, but the Daedra's AE are so aligned to their sphere that they are its personification, and often act according to their sphere rather than any sort of free decision to always to do so (Mehrunes Dagon, in particular, springs to mind, who originally tried to trick Alduin into eating too much as the Leaper Demon King, but was cursed to destroy what he tried to protect in the form of Mehrunes Dagon). Anyway, as the Hero of Kvatch developed, he would likely have become a figure so much like Sheogorath, rather than his true self, that I cannot really be sure if I can call him the Hero of Kvatch. Even in cases outside of the Daedra, mantlers tend to lose their indivduality in the process, which is unsurprising considering the nature of it. The only real exception to this would be Talos and Lorkhan, but I think that is likely due to CHIM (allowing him to retain his sense of individuality in the face of AM NOT). 

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    • 24.119.198.177 wrote:
      Old Sheo said he may or may not fully become a god.

      He (meaning the hero of Kvatch after being mantled), seems to be less powerful than other Princes, but he is definitely good old Uncle Sheogorath now. So, he may have only partially taken the power and responsibilities of Sheogorath, but he is the Mad God now.

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    • I admit to being fairly bais in regards to this theory being fact. Despite my surity that Sheogorath was the hero, I'll try to be reasonable and state actual facts.

      For one, after the last battle, Jyggalag claimed he was free from his curse, and left without pressing his attack. When under the curse, it didn't seem like he had true control over his actions, forced to destroy the realm without the order and discipline he prizes. His retreat would be out of character if he was destined to return to the Shivering Isles. Some of this is speculation, but it really looks like the curse was broken.

      Two, after the battle, Haskill tells you that you have control over the weather, stating that it is directly bound to the ruler of the realm. If you were just a mortal with a stick, it might not have worked.

      Three, this is mentioned many times, but the detailed mention of the Oblivion Crisis is a little close for a casual Daedra. The same goes for Sheogorath's comment on how insanity is not 'cured', but 'treated'. Haskill makes a similar statement the first time he and the hero meet.

      That is all I have for facts, but there are several small details pointing towards the hero of Kvatch becoming Sheogorath. His blind eyes for one. The old Sheogorath often threatened to pluck out his Champion's eyes; maybe he followed through with that threat. The lackluster disappearance of the hero whose fate was never recorded could be because he vanished into the Shivering Isles. The last speculation I have is why he was on vacation in Solitude. From the stories, when the old Sheogorath got bored he'd torment one of the other princes with a game. This one just seemed like he wanted an out, if just for a while. Not the actions of an eras old Daedric Prince, more like the decision of a trapped adventurer trying to escape.

      If it is the hero, you have to feel bad for him. He watched all his friends grow old and die while he sat in someone else's throne. It's enough to make anyone a little mad.

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    • Lol but what if your player was a girl.

      In every game the hero is suposed to be a man... And now i ask yo what if the hero was a woman...

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    • I think the during the course of oblivion, you were the madgod, but not Sheogorath. After the hero died, he acended tobecome the true Sheogorath. 

      Either that, or he was right about the skooma.

      Or maybe Sheogorath made it up for entertainment and took his place after the hero died.

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    • O, or maybe the Sheogorath in skyrim was the old Sheogorath from before the greymarch, and then Dragonborn put uncle sheo back on his throne.

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    • I think that it is highly likely that the Hero of Kvatch became the new Sheogorath due to being mantled by defeating Jyggalag who needed to be defeated in Greymarch in order to stay normal, Jyggalag doesn't want to be Sheogorath. Of coarse being the Prince of Madness, the Hero of Kvatch could retain his original personality within him becoming Sheogorath wouldn't that be maddening, Sheogorath in Skyrim mentions being there for the entire sordid affair of Oblivion within the mind of a madman this would retain his helpful nature originally being a hero, as well insanity can be treated but not cured.

      If I'm wrong you can correct me or you can write your own thoughts but this is only my personal opinion the only ones who would know what happened to the Hero of Kvatch would be the creators but what happens to the Hero of Kvatch is hinted in the games.

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    • Shade teaer, you seem smart. Come over to the house of dementia, will discuss this during tea and time. I'll invite Haskill.

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    • Since my hero of kvatch was a girl, I simply came up with a headcanon that the Sheogorath in Skyrim is part of her, or her memory of the old Sheogorath in a physical form. Being that I made her the arch-Mage, I figured she would somehow be able to separate that essence from her body that she wanted no association with but knew she couldn't destroy.

      (In my own head canon as well, my Dragonborn -a Breton named Opal- is the daughter of Martin and my Hero of Kvatch, who was a wood elf. Because of events being forced into place, her mother turned to the Psijic Order for help and joined their ranks, sending Opal into a form of "time portal" so that she is transported two hundred years into the future, where she was most needed. Opal barely remembers this, however. She only remembers that she lived in Cyrodil, her mother was a powerful magic user and archer, that one night some "men in hoods" came and her mother forced her to sit in a runed circle, and finally, that her mother did not like talking about her father, who she had no idea who he was.)

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    • Interesting. How does an Imperial and a Bosmer create a Breton? Just wondering. 

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    • ) Bretons are "halfings", usually both elven and human at the same time. That explains their human like features or their natural affinity towards anything magic. That's just what I know, anyway.
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    • (By the way, this is the same contributor from above. xD I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear~)

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    • 68.196.50.169 wrote:
      :) Bretons are "halfings", usually both elven and human at the same time. That explains their human like features or their natural affinity towards anything magic. That's just what I know, anyway.

      Ha, halflings are typically hobbit like creatures. I know what you mean, though, the Bretons are often said to be 'Half Elf, Half Man', although the Elven blood in the Bretons' veins is likely largely diluted over the Eras, and TES phylogeny does not quite work that way, either. 

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    • There is a lot of evidence to suggest that the Sheogorath in Skyrim is the Hero of Kvatch, all of which has been stated above, with no real evidence to suggest otherwise. If Sheogorath is meant to be the Hero of Kvatch then I think that it's the default character models that Bethesda use are the actual appearences of each games protaganist meaning that they are all male. It's entirely possible that when the Hero of Kvatch became the Mad God that hebecame imortal and then, driven mad by the deaths of all of his friends and knowing that he would continue to live forever he decided to live in the Shivering Isles and become Sheogorath using the magic that he learned from the Arcane university to alter his appearence so he would look more like his predocessor. Now the only 'friend' he has left from his original life is Haskill because he is the only other person he knew that was imortal

      I think I may have looked into this a bit too much

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    • 68.196.50.169 wrote:
      :) Bretons are "halfings", usually both elven and human at the same time. That explains their human like features or their natural affinity towards anything magic. That's just what I know, anyway.

      Nah, Bretons aren't really half elves, and even if they were, it'd be half Aldmer, with the closing living race being Altmer. And this is only over many, many gnerations of Elven breeding, and even then, the children were mostly Nedic in nature, no where near half elf. If Martin did have a child with your character, which is very possible, she'd be a Bosmer through and through, if  a very persuasive one that is adapt at Destruction magic. 

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    • 80.111.4.146 wrote:
      There is a lot of evidence to suggest that the Sheogorath in Skyrim is the Hero of Kvatch, all of which has been stated above, with no real evidence to suggest otherwise. If Sheogorath is meant to be the Hero of Kvatch then I think that it's the default character models that Bethesda use are the actual appearences of each games protaganist meaning that they are all male. It's entirely possible that when the Hero of Kvatch became the Mad God that hebecame imortal and then, driven mad by the deaths of all of his friends and knowing that he would continue to live forever he decided to live in the Shivering Isles and become Sheogorath using the magic that he learned from the Arcane university to alter his appearence so he would look more like his predocessor. Now the only 'friend' he has left from his original life is Haskill because he is the only other person he knew that was imortal

      I think I may have looked into this a bit too much

      He has to be mad to take up the mantle of the Madgod, the Princes are just personifications of their spheres. 

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    • Daedric princes can change genders and how they appear too. so if the hero of kvatch is sheogorath they could just change they're appearise (and gender) to look like they're predocessor. and also sheogorath was looking for a champion to stop the greymarch so he likely only watched the climax and not the dark botherhood or the thieves guild.

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    • 174.112.216.205 wrote:
      Daedric princes can change genders and how they appear too. so if the hero of kvatch is sheogorath they could just change they're appearise (and gender) to look like they're predocessor. and also sheogorath was looking for a champion to stop the greymarch so he likely only watched the climax and not the dark botherhood or the thieves guild.

      Indeed, the look is not really the most pressing feature, but more the personality motivating the actions underneath. The Prince of Destruction cannot just decide that he will declare universal peace.

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    • Exactly, no matter howyour CoC acted before or what s/he was, s/he is bound by Sheo's sphere now. 

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    • I believe that the Champion of Cyrodiil did become Sheo, Ol' Jyggalag wasn't a very fun prince to have around and after he was defeated the CoC was crowned the new Mad God, so there's honestly no evidence to support anything else.

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    • he did become sheogorath

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    • Quick question. When the Hero of Kvatch stopped the Greymarch, did Jyggalag really become free again? Does that not mean that he would become somewhat of a problem to the other Daedric Lords, seeing as how they all cursed him?

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    • Like for the fact if HOK became Sheo or not the same goes for what happened to Jyggalag. No one is 100% sure there are only a few hints & alot of guesses & personal preferinces with no proof eather way.

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    • Kinda unrelated, but why are three of the trivias related to the HoK  becoming Sheogorath?

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    • But, it is cannon that the hero of kvatch died.

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    • CANNON?

      WHERE?

      DONT SHOOT ME MR. CANNON!!!

      my new response to people saying cannon, instead of canon

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    • Jyggalag was set free from the curse, meaning someone else would have to be Sheogorath after the Greymarch. When the player finishes Shivering Isles he/she takes that role as a mortal for the time being. But I believe later on the Hero of Kvatch starts to become imortal and receive the full extent of Sheogorath's powers. The hero will receive Sheogorath's mental and physical traits as the years go by. Even if your hero is a female Khajiit, she'll end up taking on the physical appearance of Sheogorath as she starts to become imortal. The Hero of Kvatch as a person dies but embodies as a Daedric Prince (since the hero devotes himself to his role as the Mad God). As for Jyggalag it is unknown, but probably he created another realm of Oblivion, or he was just glad he didn't have to be reborn as a mad man.

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    • shouldnt you consider all DLC to be canon and not part of the linear story?

      people are missing the possibility that perhaps Bethesda are Teasing the player. Within the story it is safe to assume that All daedric princes had some sort of interaction with the HoK - Like in Skyrim Hermaeus Mora says: "I am Hermaeus Mora. I am the guardian of the unseen, and knower of the unknown. I have been watching you, mortal." Granted that the HoK was capable of Amazing feats and accomplished tasks that no other person could seemingly accomplish. it is entirely possible that Sheogorath along with other daedric princes took an interest in the powerful adventurer and Watched them. Sheogorath - then - in his madness memorized what happened and gives you a cryptic verse that hints suspiciously and coincidentally towards *being the HoK*: "You know,I was there for that whole sordid affair.Marvelous Time! Butterflies,blood, a Fox,a severed head...Oh,and the cheese! To die for." Of course he was "there" he's immortal, also It isn't like Martin septim was unknown if commoners and peasants knew of the goings on, history being written, Martin being emporer, Martin turning into a dragon, then its hard to think that it would pass the attention of a daedric prince. Even the Daedric Prince of Madness.

      Until a game developer/story board director and the story writers say "yes sheogorath is the Hero of Kvatch" we cannot know for sure.

      My explanation is as feasible as the idea that the HoK became Sheogorath.

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    • Another piece of evidence disproving the "just watched it arguement" is the fact sheogorath does not mention any game besides Oblivion

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    • that could be written off as making more modern reference, and the  series probably growed in popularity, so they wanted to make references more people would get.

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    • Deadpool710 wrote:
      CANNON?

      WHERE?

      DONT SHOOT ME MR. CANNON!!!

      my new response to people saying cannon, instead of canon

      Dude, that's about as funny as a leper in a wind tunnel.

      And it'd be quicker to point out the mistake in a non-patronising manner...come on, you're deadpool! I expect nothing but the best.

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    • Maybe there was a Dragon Break that caused the Hero of Kvatch becoming and not becoming Sheogorath at the same time.

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    • Assasinxtg
      Assasinxtg removed this reply because:
      already answered.
      02:29, November 5, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • An overrated character says some ambiguous things he could have watched and everyone loses their minds assuming he's the player character from Oblivion and takes it as "canon" even though there's no real canon in Elder Scrolls games.

      When you hear of the Nerevarine in Skyrim, all that's mentioned is that he was a male but the game doesn't go onto mention how he was a vampire werewolf hybrid and a murderer (but hero too) who became the leader of every guild and solved every problem in Morrowind before killing every living thing on the island including every NPC (which contradicts facts such as the fact that St.Jiub was responsible for killing most of the Cliff-racers...oh and also that the whole of Vvardenfell still had living creatures and people on it post-Morrowind so we can't assume that every action thinkable and doable by the player is canon).

      Sheo's comments strike me simply as a past reference to Oblivion just as the Dragonborn DLC goes on to reference Morrowind. It's fan-service, nothing more, in both cases.

      This article should be written from the main quest perceptive only just as the Nerevarine's article is since everything else is optional. Unless a TES game was to explicitly state a protagonist did everything then stuff like this should be written in a speculation/optional section.

      This article is written with the idea that the hero did everything there was to do and became a master of every ability and the head of every guild which simply reads like a joke.

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    • Yeah not everything you do in game will become canon but thats only minor stuff. Like killing nazeem in the street. (Actually now that I think about it the people of whiterun probably would remember that with a feast day or something) But becoming sheo himself is BIG. And he can have multiple personalities. So the one you meet in skyrim might be mad but somewhere in that mind of his is the HoK's personality.

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    • 86.21.101.169 wrote:
      An overrated character says some ambiguous things he could have watched and everyone loses their minds assuming he's the player character from Oblivion and takes it as "canon" even though there's no real canon in Elder Scrolls games.

      It's more that Jyggalag says you'll become Sheogorath in time, not so much the hints Sheogorath drops in Skyrim. Well, for me, anyways. Also, the voice actor who plays him stated at Comic-Con 2012 that it was true, and no one at Bethesda denied him when he said it. Then again, they didn't confirm it either, but it stands to reason had he stated a false fact they'd have clarified, would have taken them 2 seconds... and Bethesda is quick to respond to false facts about their intellectual properties, like the false patents and rumors for Fallout 4 in the past year, and when another voice actor stated a false fact about a game, again Fallout 4.

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    • No one wants to mention that Sheo tells you the grey march has happened before, and that he'll return again like always. You people are cutting out key evidence just to support your fan-fueled claims

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    • 98.239.212.225 wrote:
      No one wants to mention that Sheo tells you the grey march has happened before, and that he'll return again like always. You people are cutting out key evidence just to support your fan-fueled claims

      You're ingoring or not aware that no one was ever able to stop Jyggalag until the Hero did. All previous Greymarches succeeded, the one in Oblivion was stopped.

      Yeah, it's fan fueled... with heaps of evidence, and Bethesda confirmed it when asked, as did Sheogorath's voice actor.

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    • Personally, I agree with the theory that the HoK eventually grew into their role as Mad God, but I've come up with an in-the-raw idea vaguely similar to that one, and so for the sake of saying something different than the many-repeated theories above, here it is:

      What if, after the events of The Shivering Isles, the mantle of Mad God became similar to that of the Gray Fox? That is, every few decades or so the title gets passed on to someone new, and due to the nature of the curse (Or, some may say, "blessing") of the Madgod/Gray Cowl, they have to play by the rules of whatever figure they have taken the place of. 

      Again, I'm not really convinced that this theory --even if it is my own-- is correct, as it doesn't really have much evidence in support of it. Aside from, perhaps, Sheogorath's comment in Skyrim about the title of Mad God being a family title, and is passed down "from me to myself" every few thousand years. But of course, that's subjective. Then again, most things Sheo-related are.

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    • The hero of Kvatch did stop the Greymarch for good & he had to play the part of Sheogorath to do it. But I think he only begame Mad God in title Only. Sheogorath & Jyggalag could have just split into two differint people. As for watching the whole sorted affar in Oblivion he could have been watching the Hero to see if he was a worthy champion or the whole thing was funny to him he is a bit nuts in the head. Like they say in ESO he has the mind set of a child & the powers of a God

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    • I honestly don't think the Champion of Cyrodiil is a full fledge Daedra prince. Even in a dialogue option with Sheogorath toward the end of the Shivering Isles questline, he says that the CoC will not become one, but merely has the power to mantle the Throne of Sheogorath. Which is more than enough to defeat Jyggalag.

      And all that is stated by Haskill is that, 'If the throne is empty once Jyggalag storms the palace, all will be lost'. (Just paraphrasing). Also, the CoC is powerless outside of the realm of the Shivering Isles. So his influence ends there.

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    • 109.93.182.183 wrote:
      Lol but what if your player was a girl.

      In every game the hero is suposed to be a man... And now i ask yo what if the hero was a woman...


      Thing is, daedras don't have a gender, also if a man can take on the appearance of the previous Sheogorath, why not a woman?

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    • 110.238.14.4 wrote:
      But, it is cannon that the hero of kvatch died.

      And it is canon that they obtain a power that let's them be transported to the Shivering Isles right before dying.

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    • 85.218.49.136 wrote:
      110.238.14.4 wrote:
      But, it is cannon that the hero of kvatch died.
      And it is canon that they obtain a power that let's them be transported to the Shivering Isles right before dying.

      I'm not sure which power you are talking about. But I think you're talking about the Blessing that transports the Champion back to Sheogorath's palace before death. If so, that power only exists in the Shivering Isles, and does not work on Nirn. If the CoC dies on Nirn, they are not transported to the Shivering Isles.

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    • 85.218.49.136 wrote:
      109.93.182.183 wrote:
      Lol but what if your player was a girl.

      In every game the hero is suposed to be a man... And now i ask yo what if the hero was a woman...


      Thing is, daedras don't have a gender, also if a man can take on the appearance of the previous Sheogorath, why not a woman?

      And why not a cool Scotish old man ?

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    • The answer is both yes and no. I direct you to the following link to explain it.

      http://www.imperial-library.info/content/arden-sul-1

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    • 139.228.32.157 wrote:
      85.218.49.136 wrote:
      109.93.182.183 wrote:
      Lol but what if your player was a girl.

      In every game the hero is suposed to be a man... And now i ask yo what if the hero was a woman...


      Thing is, daedras don't have a gender, also if a man can take on the appearance of the previous Sheogorath, why not a woman?
      And why not a cool Scotish old man ?

      LOL man, that's true XD

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    • 139.228.32.157 wrote:
      139.228.32.157 wrote:
      85.218.49.136 wrote:
      109.93.182.183 wrote:
      Lol but what if your player was a girl.

      In every game the hero is suposed to be a man... And now i ask yo what if the hero was a woman...


      Thing is, daedras don't have a gender, also if a man can take on the appearance of the previous Sheogorath, why not a woman?
      And why not a cool Scotish old man ?
      LOL man, that's true XD

      Not funny -_- , dafuq are you laughing to your own joke Bro

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    • NO....., want to quote on Sothas, i think i'm kinda off today :/

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    • 139.228.32.157 wrote:
      NO....., want to quote on Sothas, i think i'm kinda off today :/

      Eh? What quote?

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    • No matter what Sheogorath is The Hero Of Kvatch. How? Why? But I was a women in my playthrough you might say And a Kajhit. Simple. When The Hero became the mad Deadra he simlpy became the version of sheo he Knows and loves. So people reconize him as Uncle Sheo.

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    • What if you were Sheogorath all along, just another split personality?

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    • Shade Tear wrote:
      I think that it is highly likely that the Hero of Kvatch became the new Sheogorath due to being mantled by defeating Jyggalag who needed to be defeated in Greymarch in order to stay normal, Jyggalag doesn't want to be Sheogorath. Of coarse being the Prince of Madness, the Hero of Kvatch could retain his original personality within him becoming Sheogorath wouldn't that be maddening, Sheogorath in Skyrim mentions being there for the entire sordid affair of Oblivion within the mind of a madman this would retain his helpful nature originally being a hero, as well insanity can be treated but not cured.

      If I'm wrong you can correct me or you can write your own thoughts but this is only my personal opinion the only ones who would know what happened to the Hero of Kvatch would be the creators but what happens to the Hero of Kvatch is hinted in the games.

      I see it like this: The Hero of Kvatch (I'll only type HoK from now on) is in fact mad. Saving thousands of lifes in his fight against Dagon, but also killing people for Sithis, what makes him look kind of schizophrenic or or heavily bipolar disturbed. If he was neither it says many things about his motives: He didn't want to do good things, but his doings eren't only for his personal advantage either, he did it, because he always looked for the challenge. Now imagine you gained immortality and did all the stuff the HoK did: Nothing would challenge you anymore. How should a war for example be a challenge for you, after you already defeated armies of dremora by yourself?

      The last challenge the HoK saw was ruling his own realm and since the Shivering Isles were such a chaotic place, it was close to impossible to do that job properly. When he finally figured out how to do it he was bored again and left. Everything collapsed and Dervenin (the hobo in solitude) asked the Dragonborn to bring him back.

      Does that sound possible?

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    • Just on this matter -- I wouldn't trust a daedric prince's appearance as a way to identify the Hero of Kvatch. Daedra are known to change appearances, even gender if it suits them. There is no reason the daedra, who are all about change, can change their very identity from the outset. We are typically presented with a male who is bearded in regards to Sheo -- this may just be a way of convenience for mortals to identify him/her. Ultimately, if taken to a logical conclusion, and the Hero is Sheo, it means that the Hero could have been female, elven, beastfolk, or man.   

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    • There is another thread of this going and I'll put here what I put there. To start it off, CoC did not fully become Sheo and it is likely that eventually Jygg will revert back into Sheo and CoC will become a Vestige like Haskill.

      Chamberlain Haskill says, “I have had similar questions about my 'nature' from Alessandra, Legoless, and an Unnamed One, so I suppose I must address the matter. I am a Vestige, all that remains of a mortal from your world who 'mantled' Sheogorath during an event in a previous time. As a fragment, my memory of the event is … fragmentary. I am hazy on the entire concept of 'mantling,' but it had something to do with Lord Sheogorath, myself, and this Jyggalag of whom you speak. I have asked the Mad God to explain it to me, but he just laughs and says maybe he'll tell me about it 'next year,' whatever that means. “Sometimes the Master irritates even me. I can't remember why I put up with it, actually."

      This is evidence supporting Lady N's write up from a few years back that can be found here: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/arden-sul-1

      We're talking about the nature of Sheo/Jygg. This nature stays true through at least this kalpa. While he isn't the arbiter of all things, Kirkbride is very adamant about the fact that CoC did not mantle Sheo, at least not in the sense that Talos mantled Lorkhan. 

      As a side note, the term mantling keeps being thrown around as the Fourth Walking Way, but this may not be the case. The Love Letter doesn't mention mantling, and instead calls the Fourth the Enantiomorph. Myself and others as well have been questioning the status quo for what mantling truly is. 

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    • When you look about it,when you meet Sheo in Skyrim he is doing something "good?",curing Pelagius from his insanity,this also might be a hint that Hero of Kvach became Sheo

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    • Whatswrongwithmyusername wrote:
      When you look about it,when you meet Sheo in Skyrim he is doing something "good?",curing Pelagius from his insanity,this also might be a hint that Hero of Kvach became Sheo

      This holds to the assumption that Sheogorath is, by nature, evil. This just simply isn't true, and neither is it true for the rest of the Daedra. Padomaic beings are not evil, they're chaotic, and chaos by it's very nature can be anything. Curing someone of madness still falls under his domain of madness. Sheogorath's domain includes all mental illness. Do you really think Pelagius is going to be ok after spending so long as a mad man? Point being, we can't just take it at face value. The beauty of TES lore is that the deeper you dig, the less forward things seem to be. HoK is Sheo? Maybe, but evidence doesn't completely support it and IF the past continues as is (which is far more likely due to the nature of the structure of the Dream) we can safely assume that, while the HoK did assume Sheo's role, his did in fact NOT follow the steps of the dead and become Sheogorath on a permanent level. 

      Side note: HoK definitely did do this with Pelinal.

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    • hahah, my hero of kvatch, Devas, never went to the shivering isles, and never became the Crusader. He was also the Gray Fox and that's it. He never joined the dark brotherhood either. How could a stealthy little guy like him become a crusader or, for that matter, being the Daedra hater that he was, serve or help Sheo? He never did. A high elf from Bravil named Idril went into that island offshore. And was never seen or heard of again.

      So, yeah, not canon in my game ;)

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    • 82.45.205.197 wrote:
      hahah, my hero of kvatch, Devas, never went to the shivering isles, and never became the Crusader. He was also the Gray Fox and that's it. He never joined the dark brotherhood either. How could a stealthy little guy like him...

      For the purpose of canon, the hero is assumed to have completed the MQ and all xpacs. 

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    • Sothas wrote:
      There is another thread of this going and I'll put here what I put there. To start it off, CoC did not fully become Sheo and it is likely that eventually Jygg will revert back into Sheo and CoC will become a Vestige like Haskill...

      What Haskill says here doesn't apply to the events of the Shivering Isles DLC.

      CoC actually ended the Greymarch and Jyggalag's curse for good, so there is no actual reason why Jygg would revert back to Sheo, and there's no reason why the mantle of Sheogorath would get passed to someone else after that.

      He himself said that the title gets passed from himself to himself every few thousand years, and mentions the events of Oblivion like he was only following them through the POV of CoC, and actually breaks the Fourth Wall by directly telling the player :

      "I'm part of you, little mortal. I'm a shadow of your subconscious. A blemish on your fragile little psyche. You know me. You just don't know it."

      Most have interpreted this line in one way and believed he was talking about madness, but they didn't think it actually has a double meaning and that New Sheo is talking to the players who controlled him during his adventures in the previous game and its DLCs.

      The evidence that CoC did indeed fully mantle Sheogorath and transcended mortality is more tangible than the "evidence" that suggests otherwise.

      I will only believe that CoC didn't fully mantle Sheo if Kirkbride explicitly states it and fully explains it.

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    • Kirkbride specifically says CoC doesn't mantle Sheo. Does he explain it? No, of course not. MK never explains shit. That's his way.

      With that said, the evidence you call tangible is definitely less when considering the mythic echos of Anu and Padomay that exist within Jygg and sheo. Then pile that up to what evidence we have and we end up with a Vestige. It is totally possible that the Sheo in Skyrim is still the CoC and Jygg hasn't reverted back yet. However, there is very little reason to believe he won't. TES rarely has the real answer right in your face.

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    • I'll take Jyggalag's word for it that he and Sheo are now two seperate beings until proven otherwise in-game.

      As for whether the Hero of Kvatch became Sheo, it's a maybe. A likely maybe, bit still a maybe.

      Personally I'd rather it not be true, I'd prefer the Hero's story be ended rather than continuing indefinitely as the new Sheogorath.

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    • While Jyggalag & Sheogorath split & became two differint people the best thing to come up with is. If you think the HOK became Sheogorath then he did if you think he didn't then he didn't. Everything to do with the games can be exsplaned both ways & be true both ways. The debate has gotten better since it stopped being "It's the way I said it is & that is final end of story"

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    • The Hero of Kvatch did have some felldew and probably some other stuff from Thadon's table. After defeating Jyggalag he may have helped himself to some more. There's one possible path to madness..

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    • I believe it's largely ambiguous and entirely up to the player. It may have been strongly hinted that Hero does indeed become Sheogorath, however, keep in mind that this is coming from a Prince of MADNESS. There are no limits to a truly mad mind. For all we know, all this Shivering Isles set of events may just have been a twisted ploy merely to sate the Mad Prince's boredom or something of the sort. He could have easily fabricated it all, made the Hero him/herself descent into insanity. Because, like I said, there are no limits to a truly mad mind. This could have very well been a trick to make the Hero think they are a damn god and the player to believe their character becoming Sheogorath himself. After all, isn't that more befitting the Prince of MADNESS? The dialogue in Skyrim doesn't prove much either, since the Mad Prince could say anything. He could trick the Dragonborn into believing him/herself a god if he wanted to. But, again, this is largely ambiguous. It's up to the player. I, personally, don't really like the idea. After everything my Hero going through, driving the daedra back into Oblivion and closing it's gates, helping Martin to rid of daedra invasion permanently, becoming a damn DIVINE Crusader... it just feels wrong for such a vigilant Hero to become a Daedric Prince in my book.

      Heck, my headcanon is that my Hero fell in love and got impregnated by Martin (before he sacrificed himself to save everyone and close out the mortal plane to daedra permanently, RIP), and kept it a secret from everyone, because she thought that, hey, since the Septim emperor is no longer necessary anymore, why not just let them crown someone else as emperor, while she raises her child in a normal and uncomplicated life, which continued the Septim bloodline right to the last Dragonborn. Lol, yes, beyond flawed story, but meh. This is why I really don't like the idea of my Hero becoming a Daedric Prince. When the Dragonborn meets Sheogorath, they'd be facing their damn ancestor!.. which... is actually kinda cool, now that I think about it. Lol, but nah, my Hero is just a mortal. A remarkable one, but a mere mortal til the end. This is how I like my hero stories. 

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    • Anything can become god, and become anyone. What stops you? Your imagination? o3o

      The TES3 Tribunal was once mortals, then they became gods, that walk on Nirn... Yet still, what is a god? Creator of a certain element or existence or creation? Off course, this requires a lot of power, and what does the CoC have mostly when they wrest a realm of Oblivion? Power. Relics of Divines and etc powerful artifacts, skill and knowledge? Power. Power most likely equals followers of your very own religion, surrounding your power and influence on the world. Religion equals in most cases, a god. o3o And what force in all of Skyrim, stop Dragonborn become Ulfric Stormcloak, cuz magics.

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    • 109.93.182.183 wrote:
      Lol but what if your player was a girl.

      In every game the hero is suposed to be a man... And now i ask yo what if the hero was a woman...

      I think I remember Haskil said something about how the the hero after defeating Jiggy that not only would they get some of Sheo's power they would begin to look like 'him' after a while. Also the Daderic princes are genderless.

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    • What about Skyrim?Talos became a god!So why HoK can't become a deadra god?Also Haskil and Sheo did said that in time HoK will unlock the true potential of his new power.

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    • Talos is very different. All three of the mortals that became Talos were Shezarrine. Shezarrines are shards of Lorkhan. Talos mantled Lorkhan. So basically a god became mortal and returned to heaven.

      What the CoC did in becoming Sheogorath is a very different thing. Scroll up and read my links from before. The CoC did become Sheogorath, but it's more like he is keeping the seat warm. He's the King of Sovereign Isles and eventually Jyggylag will return and a new King will take over.

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    • I always find it amazing that people doubt whether Shivering Isles was canon but seldom deny Knights of the Nine.  SI was a full blown expansion pack that had its own retail package for PC.  

      The only possibility that the CoC is not Sheo in Skyrim is that he either died sometime after SI or SI was a ploy by Sheo to drive the CoC insane and into the madhouse.  Considering the number of other powers watching over the hero, the latter is highly improbably.  I wouldn't discount death though.  The Isles does not become a safe place just because everyone smiles at you after you become Sheo.  That said, gaining longevity and even immortality in TES and in SI especially is far from impossible.

      I like to think the CoC was a great fit for Sheo.  Only a champion worthy of the Mad God would undertake deadly quests daily without regularly eating or sleeping.  

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    • He assumed the title of the god of madness (or if you prefer, mad god). There was never any indication in Oblivion that he could/would turn EXACTLY into Sheogorath. And even though people sometimes become very slimier to daedric princes/gods there's a large difference between being alike and being completely the same. So it's likely there's either multiple Sheogorath's or there's only one. I could buy the turning into him theory if they weren't exactly alike but they're far too similar to be different people, unless perhaps Sheogorath takes over the bodies or something, which could be a possibility. A way to escape from Jyggalag perhaps?. They even have exactly the same fetishes (cheese. Tears, etc. Mentioned in oblivion from the original). Also, Jyggalag comes around every 1000 years or so, at least before the conflict in Oblivion. That might have changed somewhat after (and for all we know might have changed again), but Jyggalag IS Sheogorath. So if Jyggalag is out there somewhere then there HAS to be at least two Sheogorath's, or at least two of the same person in different places. Then again, we never really see Sheogorath in person in Skyrim do we, since we're inside someone's head? That could at least explain being in two places at once (real world and dream world which we sometimes see in the game itself). Either way I think whichever Sheogorath it is just wants to confuse us and leave a carrot on the end of a stick with no sure answer one way or the other. Sounds like something he'd do. Maybe that's how Beth intended it.

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    • Taramafor wrote: He assumed the title of the god of madness (or if you prefer, mad god). There was never any indication in Oblivion that he could/would turn EXACTLY into Sheogorath. And even though people sometimes become very slimier to daedric princes/gods there's a large difference between being alike and being completely the same. So it's likely there's either multiple Sheogorath's or there's only one. I could buy the turning into him theory if they weren't exactly alike but they're far too similar to be different people, unless perhaps Sheogorath takes over the bodies or something, which could be a possibility. A way to escape from Jyggalag perhaps?. They even have exactly the same fetishes (cheese. Tears, etc. Mentioned in oblivion from the original). Also, Jyggalag comes around every 1000 years or so, at least before the conflict in Oblivion. That might have changed somewhat after (and for all we know might have changed again), but Jyggalag IS Sheogorath. So if Jyggalag is out there somewhere then there HAS to be at least two Sheogorath's, or at least two of the same person in different places. Then again, we never really see Sheogorath in person in Skyrim do we, since we're inside someone's head? That could at least explain being in two places at once (real world and dream world which we sometimes see in the game itself). Either way I think whichever Sheogorath it is just wants to confuse us and leave a carrot on the end of a stick with no sure answer one way or the other. Sounds like something he'd do. Maybe that's how Beth intended it.

      There's only one Sheogorath. It used to be Jyggalag, that curse was lifted and now the CoC is Sheogorath.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      Taramafor wrote: He assumed the title of the god of madness (or if you prefer, mad god). There was never any indication in Oblivion that he could/would turn EXACTLY into Sheogorath. And even though people sometimes become very slimier to daedric princes/gods there's a large difference between being alike and being completely the same. So it's likely there's either multiple Sheogorath's or there's only one. I could buy the turning into him theory if they weren't exactly alike but they're far too similar to be different people, unless perhaps Sheogorath takes over the bodies or something, which could be a possibility. A way to escape from Jyggalag perhaps?. They even have exactly the same fetishes (cheese. Tears, etc. Mentioned in oblivion from the original). Also, Jyggalag comes around every 1000 years or so, at least before the conflict in Oblivion. That might have changed somewhat after (and for all we know might have changed again), but Jyggalag IS Sheogorath. So if Jyggalag is out there somewhere then there HAS to be at least two Sheogorath's, or at least two of the same person in different places. Then again, we never really see Sheogorath in person in Skyrim do we, since we're inside someone's head? That could at least explain being in two places at once (real world and dream world which we sometimes see in the game itself). Either way I think whichever Sheogorath it is just wants to confuse us and leave a carrot on the end of a stick with no sure answer one way or the other. Sounds like something he'd do. Maybe that's how Beth intended it.

      There's only one Sheogorath. It used to be Jyggalag, that curse was lifted and now the CoC is Sheogorath.

      I love how you used facts and logic to prove why you say it's accurate.

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    • It is far more complicated than all that. Go read Lady N's Arden Sul on the Imperial Library. It explains it perfectly.

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    • Sothas wrote: It is far more complicated than all that. Go read Lady N's Arden Sul on the Imperial Library. It explains it perfectly.

      The Imperial Library isn't canon.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      Sothas wrote: It is far more complicated than all that. Go read Lady N's Arden Sul on the Imperial Library. It explains it perfectly.

      The Imperial Library isn't canon.

      You're an idiot and I'll explain why.

      1. It is 99% in game resource.

      2. Lady N is a user, so obviously what she says isn't 100% true.

      3. You didn't even read it. I'm certain of that.

      4. This wiki is well known as the ass hole of TES lore within the wider community (although there is a good effort currently to try and increase this wiki's quality), and you're trying to claim something else is untrustworthy. This is lulz.

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    • Sothas wrote:

      4. This wiki is well known as the ass hole of TES lore within the wider community (although there is a good effort currently to try and increase this wiki's quality)

      Really? Why's that?

      Also, isn't the Library a website that anyone can make an account and add/edit articles? I'm not very familiar with it other than knowing Kirkbride's added some articles there.

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    • Sothas wrote: You're an idiot and I'll explain why.

      1. It is 99% in game resource.

      2. Lady N is a user, so obviously what she says isn't 100% true.

      3. You didn't even read it. I'm certain of that.

      4. This wiki is well known as the ass hole of TES lore within the wider community (although there is a good effort currently to try and increase this wiki's quality), and you're trying to claim something else is untrustworthy. This is lulz.

      1. The sources aren't mentioned on the site, making it unreliable.

      2. Everyone on that site is an user, there are a lot of articles there that are pure speculation. (Love letter from the Fifth Era is a prime example of this)

      3. I have, in the past and when I came on that site the first thing I saw is Aldmeris isn't a real thing at that moment I decided to never follow that site again.

      4. *asshole, it's one word. And maybe it is known for being that, but that's irrelevant, what matters is that unlike most lore sites, on the Elder Scrolls Wikia sources are needed to be stated on the page, unlike on the UESP or IL.

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    • If it's not in game or confirmed by the devs themselves then it's not cannon. We don't get to decide for them what is true or not in the game they made. Only they decide that. fan theories are not facts. No matter how much we like or dislike them. Just as dev confirmed cannon is as such. Regardless or wherever we like it or not. In other words Sothas, just because you want to believe something is true doesn't make it as such. At least not in the game. Though if you like a theory and want it to be cannon you can always establish your own out of game cannon lore. Kinda how Marvel and DC started. Separate cannon if you will. Both being true in their own area and not in the other. I bet some good books could be made with all the theories people have about this.

      I got into a good debate about this with someone on youtube. It's a lot of reading but Here's the link

      Long story short I make my own theories to counter the most populer one and ask my own questions and leave room for doubt. I quite like the thought of Shegorath being both the hero of Kavatch and not at the same time. Talking to himself somehow. Games do sometimes do this. I would also like to point out that games also like to make people think something is true only to do a plot twist very often. Such as in my Fire Emblem example, where Stefan is told by Yune in Fire Emblem that branded were never codemned by the goddess. Something many people thought was true until that point. And in X game we thought something was true until Y point. So on and so forth. It makes for good plot and sells. What we think is accurate can easily not be in a fictional universe.

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    • The Hero Of Kvatch(HOK) is the SK SHeo but he didn't become Sheogorath fully until later on. After SI we can assume the HOK actually gets obsessed with his power and his new title of Mad God. From here he would start to really mantle on Sheo. Becoming like him. So in shot YES. Your character becomes Sheogorath however they are not the same. To mantle you have to become exactly the same as the other god. So HOK would become Sheogorath and he wouldn't be himself anymore. So in a way HOK died and after HOK died Sheogorath returned. It is complicated but in basic mortal terms HOK is Sheogorath

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    • MNA

      It depends. Did you complete the the Shivering Isles expansion?

      Heh, I prefer a degree of ambiguity here. I do wonder if the Hero could be "Playing the Part" of the Daedric Prince rather than being full blown crazy himself. Biding his time, occupying the seat in the pantheon until the right moment comes. For what? Who knows?

      If we ever do get a massive Elder Scrolls Finale with every player character it could be fun to have Sheogorath do an awesome reveal scene like Puck in that on episode of Gargoyles...hoping people get that reference.

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    • King in the North wrote:

      80.111.4.146 wrote:
      There is a lot of evidence to suggest that the Sheogorath in Skyrim is the Hero of Kvatch, all of which has been stated above, with no real evidence to suggest otherwise. If Sheogorath is meant to be the Hero of Kvatch then I think that it's the default character models that Bethesda use are the actual appearences of each games protaganist meaning that they are all male. It's entirely possible that when the Hero of Kvatch became the Mad God that hebecame imortal and then, driven mad by the deaths of all of his friends and knowing that he would continue to live forever he decided to live in the Shivering Isles and become Sheogorath using the magic that he learned from the Arcane university to alter his appearence so he would look more like his predocessor. Now the only 'friend' he has left from his original life is Haskill because he is the only other person he knew that was imortal

      I think I may have looked into this a bit too much

      He has to be mad to take up the mantle of the Madgod, the Princes are just personifications of their spheres. 

      Which given the events of the base game would make a lot of sense. If the "canon" is that HoK did all the questlines, then that shows that they are mad, for these questlines often time conflict with one another. Only a truly mad person can dedicate themselves to saving Tamriel and then proceed to serve Sithis with ease.

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    • 68.196.50.169 wrote:

      ) Bretons are "halfings", usually both elven and human at the same time. That explains their human like features or their natural affinity towards anything magic. That's just what I know, anyway.

      Bretons are the descendants of either an Aldmeri-Nedic or Aldmeri-Atmoran hybrid race of the First Era and are consequently termed as 'the mongrel race of Tamriel'. Their elven blood is heavily diluted, due to their ancestors intermingling with the Nordic population in Skyrim and High Rock. Bretons are sometimes called "Manmeri" as a result of the interbreeding, literally translating to 'man-elf'. Although their Aldmeri ancestry is shadowed by their appearance, they still inherit the magical affinity of their elven blood. Their physical features resemble their Nedic ancestors, including their pale skin tone and the obvious physical resemblance to Imperials/Nords, but some still inherit the frail, sharp appearance of the elves, along with the arrogance, and some do have slight points in their ears.

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    • the hero of all elder scrolls games is the avatar of talos.

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    • About the argument that the hero of kvatch could be a woman, I just wanted to remember that Oblivion is the only game in the series that specifies that the HERO OF KVATCH ORIGINAL is a man and imperial

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    • 109.93.182.183 wrote:
      Lol but what if your player was a girl.

      In every game the hero is suposed to be a man... And now i ask yo what if the hero was a woman...


      Daedric Prince can change their gender at will...

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    • When the hero defeats jigolag I can't spell it even now. the mad part that is Sheogorath is transferd to the hero and terns him into sheogorath basicly it is his mad persona that gains its own body and is still a daidra in the form of the hero.

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    • For everyone who is saying they made a girl character Sheogorath is a daedra and daedra have no gender so technically a daedra can appear in any form they please so perhaps the hero chose to appear as the traditional depiction of sheogorath that or Bethesda just put him in as the default from Oblivion

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    • 86.42.129.43 wrote:
      For everyone who is saying they made a girl character Sheogorath is a daedra and daedra have no gender so technically a daedra can appear in any form they please so perhaps the hero chose to appear as the traditional depiction of sheogorath that or Bethesda just put him in as the default from Oblivion

      ^ Probably over 90% accurate.

      It's more or less 99% - 100% accurate that HoK is the current Sheogorath.

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    • you know, I've read some theories that ES games is a game of "what if". For example, "if" the dragonborn joins the dark brotherhood, then he/she will be the Listener, "if" The Dragonborn join the Winterhold College, he/she will become the Archmage. What i'm stating is, the only cannon in ES games is the Main Quest and the DLC, and Bethesda Confirmation.

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    • Yeah and the Hero of Kvatch becoming Sheogorath is part of the DLC Main Quest making it canon. Also the Hero of Kvatch has this joking streak of loving cheese which further matches the fact that he did become Sheo at the end of the DLC which carries his craving for cheese over to Skyrim when the Last Dragonborn meets him

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    • yes he did. because the Sheogorath in Oblivion looks diiferent than the one in Skyrim, and Jyggalag named him the new Sheogorath. 

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    • the hero of kvatch had to do the gray march remember for juggalag and when the staff was destroyed and then to recreate the staff he needed the staff to fully become the sheogorath dident he so he must of got the power form the staff of sheogorath that made him become what he is

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    • "After being defeated, Jyggalag named the Hero of Kvatch the new Daedric Prince of Madness before departing to wander the voids of oblivion."        "It is later believed that the Hero of Kvatch gains immortality by replacing him as the new Madgod". Those are from the wiki and they suggests that the hero of kvatch REPLACED him as the daedric prince of madness and did not BECOME him.

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    • who else could the new Sheogorath be beside the Hero of Kvatch? the old Sheogorath was destroyed, Jyggalag named him the new Sheogorath, and the Shivering Isles expansion IS canon to the lore, so it is the Hero of Kvatch

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    • Hero of Kvatch took over from the old Sheogorath. He is Sheogorath at the end of Oblivion.

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    • I think it's yes, I think this because the Sheogorath in Skyrim holds Martin Septim in high regard (not exact quote) "Your the best Septim other that that Martin fellow" and why would Sheo like Martin unless he was th HoK, why else would Sheo hold hold Martin in such high regard, and if you say that he only likes him because he was important, then why didn't he say Tiber Septim, the most important Septim.

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    • To everyone who said "But what if my Hero of Kvatch was a girl?": You're forgetting that Daedra Lords don't have genders. They can switch from man to woman and vice versa at any time they wish to. So any Hero of Kvatch you made becomes Sheogorath. Official DLCs are always canon.

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    • Purrington wrote: Quick question. When the Hero of Kvatch stopped the Greymarch, did Jyggalag really become free again? Does that not mean that he would become somewhat of a problem to the other Daedric Lords, seeing as how they all cursed him?

      Sheo and juggs are one in the same,so when the here mantled sheo he also mantles juggs,meaning the greymarch will come again,and sheonthe hero will be no more

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    • Hero of Kvatch freed Jyggalag from his curse and ended the cycle of Greymarch which means that Greymarch will never take place again.

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    • 91.240.31.3 wrote:
      Hero of Kvatch freed Jyggalag from his curse and ended the cycle of Greymarch which means that Greymarch will never take place again.

      Says who? Jyggylag? Is he somehow omnipotent? Or would you rather use the evidence we have laid out before us from tons of sources that Jyggylag and Sheo can't be separated? Because, if we don't take what Jyggylag says at face value, all evidence points to this being exactly how it happens every era. Arden Sul and Haskill are known ex-Sheogoraths. They both completed the Grey March and "freed" Jyggylag.

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    • My sister's thoughts are that the Champion of Cyrodiil became increasingly fooled and crazed as the DLC main quest went on, with its climax on the Knights of Order and Jyggalag that represented the last remains of your dying sanity. At the end you would wander in Shivering Isles as a totally mad, dirty addict dressed with Sheogorath's clothes claiming to be Sheogorath himself.

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    • Search it up, Bethesda declared it canon that the Hero of Kvatch became Sheogorath, they said it in their own words, I've seen it.

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    • The only one that said it was true was the guy who does Sheogorath's voice but Bethesda themselves never confermed nor denyed it.

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    • Old thread and even late post but it only make sense that the hok is sheogorath be because his mantle was say different from haskill as never before was the staff of sheogorath made again dyus says that and dyus in my opinion is considered trustworthy as he is jygs library and knknowledge. He says to the hok that what he was all doing is new and that makes me believe is that haskill was given the staff and didn't make a new staff and also jygalag says he was never beaten in combat before meaning that haskill failed to stop the greymar h yet still some what mantled ahem only to be grown out and becoming a daedric vestige

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    • Sheogorath only makes you Sheogorath of a century so he could return to his regular form of jygalag. Jygalag and sheogorath switch once every turn of the century to balance caos and order. Skyrim takes place 200 years after the oblivion crisis. Its placed right before he switches back to Jygalag. so he is the original Sheogorath, however I would not doubt if the hero of kavatch becomes Sheogorath again when ever he takes the form of jygalag. I know they are seperated entitys at this point but they are still connected mentaly do to the fact that its a dadric curse placed by multiple dadric princes to weaken jygalag. Jygalag once yook control of most of oblivion and the oyher gods had to team up and curse him to stop his takeover.

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    • Actually the Sheogorath we see in skyrim, is NOT the hero of kvatch. The hero of kvatch 'mantled'/ represented  sheogorath for the purpose of the grey march. He probably wasn't the first either. The effect of CoC having done that MAY have left him basically immortal but then again, the Sheogorath in skyrim isn't the CoC.

      -- ss

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    • You know Jygalag says the curse is broken and he's never been bested in combat before? the HOKs greymarch was the only one where the sheogorath 'representative' has won? Thus breaking the cycle for the first time ever Haskill even tried as proven in The Imperial Library's :Interview with Haskill. Haskill tried to mantle sheogorath and stop the greymarch and failed. The HOK was the first one to succeed he even created a new staff of sheogorath which was never done either he/she broke all the paths set before them. Also like I said earlier the HOK was the only one to break the cycle of the greymarch freeing Jygalag so I don't know how you think Jygalag would take over Sheo again yes they are linked as Madnesswont exist without order but that doesn't mean they return.

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    • Also there's no reason for the curse to be in effect anymore the curse was broken when Jygalag couldn't fulfill the greymarch deeming him not as powerful in the eyes of the other daedric lords. Jygalag himself says the curse is broken the dude who was cursed! So how would the cursed still be in effect?

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    • 24.119.198.177 escreveu: O
      velho Sheo disse que ele pode ou não se tornar completamente um deus.


      minha teoria e que após a crise do esquecimento uma nova porta se abriu na baía de Niben e como era uma porta de esquecimento pediu ajuda ao herói de kavath mas a porta se fechou ele nunca mais voltou

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    • my theory and that after the crisis of forgetfulness a new door opened in the bay of Niben and as it was a door of oblivion asked for help to the hero of kavath but the door closed he never returned

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    • Sothas wrote:
      91.240.31.3 wrote:
      Hero of Kvatch freed Jyggalag from his curse and ended the cycle of Greymarch which means that Greymarch will never take place again.
      Says who? Jyggylag? Is he somehow omnipotent? Or would you rather use the evidence we have laid out before us from tons of sources that Jyggylag and Sheo can't be separated? Because, if we don't take what Jyggylag says at face value, all evidence points to this being exactly how it happens every era. Arden Sul and Haskill are known ex-Sheogoraths. They both completed the Grey March and "freed" Jyggylag.

      its never said they freed him but they merely took sheos mantle, the hero is the only one to have beaten jygalag

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    • 109.93.182.183 wrote:
      Lol but what if your player was a girl.

      In every game the hero is suposed to be a man... And now i ask yo what if the hero was a woman...

      Well hey, Daedra are genderless!

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    • 109.92.212.164 wrote:
      Yes he did,and he is Sheogorath in Elder Scrolls V Skyrim.

      In skyrim he says "You know,I was there for that whole sordid affair.Marvelous time! Butterflies,blood, a Fox,a severed head...Oh,and the cheese! To die for.

      U see butterflies-When u enter shivering isles whole room turn in butterflies

      Blood-Blood of Aedra and Deadra for Martin's quest.

      Fox-Gray Fox from thiefs guild

      Severed head-head of Mathieu Bellamont's mother in Dark brotherhood quest.

      Cheese-Quest for Sheogorath in Oblivion,where u must steal all cheese from  khajiit's.

      Hero of Kvatch is Sheogorath is skyrim becouse he has his memoryes from oblivion

      Now that is one heck of a point! I guess I should make a shrine with a Wabbajack in Skyrim while I play Oblivion at the same time. That way, I can worship myself!

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    • Late but Dyus as well as the Daedric prince of 'Order,Logic and Deduction' both recognized the Champion of Cyrodil as Lord Sheogorath. One quote to support this comes from Jyggalag as he says 'And I will take my leave mortal?King?God?It all seems uncertain. Fare thee well Sheogorath,Prince of madness' as well as Dyus saying something along the lines of 'You like your predecessor will keep me here'. You also get the ability to sit on Sheogoraths throne which and I quote 'Only Sheogorath may sit on his throne' as well as having powers over the isles which only Sheogorath has. Haskill had also failed to have ended the grey march.

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    • Yes, it is mentioned in Skyrim.

      "You are far too hard on yourself, my dear, sweet, homicidally insane Pelagius. What would the people do without you? Dance? Sing? Smile? [laughter] Grow old? You are the best Septim that has ever ruled. Well, except for that Martin fellow, but he turned into a Dragon god, and that's hardly sporting. You know, I was there for that whole sordid affair. Marvelous time! Butterflies, blood, a Fox, a severed head... Oh, and the cheese! To die for."

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    • Everything said by Sheogorath in Skyrim can be made to fit witch ever side you beleive. The Game makers left it up to the fans to decide for themselves. There is no right or wrong answer.

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    • The issue of whether the Hero of Kvatch is now actually Sheogorath depends on whether the Compact of Coldharbour, which prohibits Sheogorath from directly appearing on Nirn, still applied after Sotha Sil's death in Elder Scrolls III.

      If the Compact still binds, then the Hero of Kvatch could not have returned to Cyrodiil to finish quests etc.

      If the Compact died with Sotha Sil, then I prefer to believe in the alluded to daedric apotheosis.

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    • I think the matter of the Hero of Kvatch becoming Sheogorath doesn't require too much reading into. He simply became Sheogorath period.

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    • Though it is somewhat ambiguous, Skyrim does clearly hint that Sheogorath is the Hero of Kvatch, as Sheogorath directly recalls the experiences of the Hero of Kvatch. While it is still possible that the Sheogorath we see in Skyrim is not the Hero of Kvatch, the Hero of Kvatch was definitely Sheogorath at one point; whether he continued to be Sheogorath, died, and/or was replaced by another entity (such as Jyggalag) is unknown.

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    • The objectively correct answer: there isn't one answer. It's part of an expansion to a game, and the outcome of that story is up to the player.

      (Anyone seriously trying to use the word "canon" has voided their argument automatically, by the way, since that's a clown concept for children outside of the Bible as a topic.)

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    • ^ That. Is what I mean by reading too much into the story. He became Sheogorath period.

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    • Busiao No Laughs wrote:
      ^ That. Is what I mean by reading too much into the story. He became Sheogorath period.

      LOL, what? I realize people have a hard time understanding how to comprehend a work on this forum, but this takes the cake.

      I'm not "reading into" anything. That's the point. 

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    • No it is your issue, no one elses

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    • Its likely he is as considering it's possible everything you can do in Oblivion is canon it makes sense as you technically owe your soul to all the daedra pretty much. But, if you become sheogorath, those pacts can assumeablely be void.

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    • cant believe my oblivion character is a wacko now.

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    • A FANDOM user
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