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  • i am asking my self if the almeri dominion get to the board of black marsh they will continue? because i don´t think they will pass the diseases, traps of argonians underwater and other dangerous. what is your opnion about this? i want to know

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    • They'll probably just burn down the marsh.

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    • Or send in cannon fodder

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    • Nobody can conquer Blackmarsh, even Tiber Septim knew that.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Nobody can conquer Blackmarsh, even Tiber Septim knew that.

      Bitch please. They conquered all Tamriel.

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Nobody can conquer Blackmarsh, even Tiber Septim knew that.
      Bitch please. They conquered all Tamriel.

      Where does it ever say the Aldmer conquered all of Tamriel?

      Blackmarsh was virtually untouched until the First Era. Even then it was never fully conquered.

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    • The Aldmer had the first empire, which spanned all of Tamriel. They definitely did, multiple in-game books agree, I can't remember which ones though.

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    • "The first colonies were distributed at wide intervals on islands along the entire coast of Tamriel. Later inland settlements were founded primarily in fertile lowlands in southwest and central Tamriel."

      "Wherever the beastfolk encountered the Elves, the sophisticated, literate, technologically advanced Aldmeri cultures displaced the primitive beastfolk into the jungles, marshes, mountains, and wastelands."

      -Before the Ages of Man

      These quotes basically confirm that the Aldmer only settled in a smaller portion of Tamriel and kicked out all of the beastfolk they found in "their land" who seemingly had to settle in areas such as Blackmarsh and Elsweyr.

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    • I read somewhere that they conquered all of Tamriel.

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    • I bet the Dominon probably could... just take a few hundred Thalmor Wizards... order them to use Fireball, aim at the trees, wait for the frightened and bold Argonians to come, impale them and mow them down with bows and swords! The only disadvantage the Dominion would probably have is that the Argonians are used to the landscape, plus they're stealthy. But other than that, they'd really have no problem. 

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    • If that were the case, wouldn't you think others would have thought of doing that. Like I said before there is a reason why nobody has invaded Blackmarsh. Tiber Septim was reluctant to do so and he had Numidium.

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    • Nope, they couldn't. Black Marsh is simply unhinhabitable for the Altmer, they would start dropping like flies the second they got somewhat far into the land. Not only that, the Argonians are master Guerilla combat, which has shown to be very helpful in holding back invaders. Obviously the Argonians are powerful warriors since they were able to stop the Oblivion Crisis in Black Marsh, which is no small task at all. If that's not enough, they also have the power of the hist. Which can benefit them in almost every way possible. The idea that the Dominion could invade Black Marsh with a few mages is just madness, for the reasons I explained the land is next to impossible to actually invade. 

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    • I don't even need to give my opinion.

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    • UselessArgonianMage wrote:
      I don't even need to give my opinion.

      quiet lizard!

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    • Rukathesoldier wrote:
      UselessArgonianMage wrote:
      I don't even need to give my opinion.
      quiet lizard!

      You prejudice Nord!

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    • Daedra Dreadlord wrote:
      Rukathesoldier wrote:
      UselessArgonianMage wrote:
      I don't even need to give my opinion.
      quiet lizard!
      You prejudice Nord!

      lol i ain't even nord.

      he is useless.

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    • Teehee. I iz Un-Useful Argh-Onion Magicman. In all seriousness though, the Aldmeri Dominion wouldn't stand a chance.

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    • Argonians are the most dangerous warriors on Tamriel when the need to be. When they ingest Hisp sap, they become mindless killing machines.

      "A few twelves of years ago, our country was invaded from Oblivion. The Hist knew it was going to happen, and called our people back to Black Marsh. Many of us were altered, made ready for the war that we had to fight. Made stronger, faster—able to endure terrible things. ..." - Lord of Souls novel

      During the Oblivion Crisis, they where the only race to go into the Oblivion Gates with armies and wipe out the Daedra within. Their attacks were so brutal that the Daedric generals had to close the gates themselves to stop the Argonians wiping them out completely.

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    • Considering that you can massacre an entire village without even knowing it, after taking hisp. (Oblivion) I'd say that an entire doped up army of argonians are more than a match for the high elven order.

      I'd probably say that a few Aldmeri pansies wouldn't stand a chance, in such a baron land. Besides who goes to a place named 'Black Marsh' on purpose?

      I'd also imagine that the Altmeri dominion wouldn't want to waste resources on conquering a large swamp.

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    • No one other than the Argonians themselves, or possibly Bosmer, could survive the deadlands of Argonia. Just one of the most inhospitable places, too much diease and... death.

      Unless the Aldmeri Dominion become Vampires.

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    • Or bring a boat load of "cure disease" and "cure poison" potions with them.

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    • Psychomantis108 wrote:
      Or bring a boat load of "cure disease" and "cure poison" potions with them.

      Yeah...for tribal Argonians to steal it in the night ? For it to be eaten by giant insects ? No.

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    • Psychomantis108 wrote:
      Or bring a boat load of "cure disease" and "cure poison" potions with them.

      You know how many of those just ONE soldier would need? Imagine having to give that to a whole army, not too mention not every disease is curable. As shown with Nurilion. And Brandon brought up a good point when he said they would most likely get stolen by random tribes, or eaten by the man deadly animals that lurk in the Marsh. 

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    • Something big were forgetting here... Knahaten Flu.

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Psychomantis108 wrote:
      Or bring a boat load of "cure disease" and "cure poison" potions with them.
      You know how many of those just ONE soldier would need? Imagine having to give that to a whole army, not too mention not every disease is curable. As shown with Nurilion. And Brandon brought up a good point when he said they would most likely get stolen by random tribes, or eaten by the man deadly animals that lurk in the Marsh. 


      I wasn't seriously suggesting that. I was pointing out how stupid and impractical that would be for the altimer. Again it would be a complete waste and a possible drain of resources, for something that isn't going to cough up much of a reward.

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    • Researching the Hist would wield massive reward, that much is not questionable. The Hist are an extremely powerful force though, however mysterious that power is. The Argonians are also masters of their home terrain and are immune to the many diseases that the area hold.

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    • Hist does exist and has been used outside of Blackmarsh as seen in Oblivion.

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    • Psychomantis108 wrote:
      Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Psychomantis108 wrote:
      Or bring a boat load of "cure disease" and "cure poison" potions with them.
      You know how many of those just ONE soldier would need? Imagine having to give that to a whole army, not too mention not every disease is curable. As shown with Nurilion. And Brandon brought up a good point when he said they would most likely get stolen by random tribes, or eaten by the man deadly animals that lurk in the Marsh. 


      I wasn't seriously suggesting that. I was pointing out how stupid and impractical that would be for the altimer. Again it would be a complete waste and a possible drain of resources, for something that isn't going to cough up much of a reward.

      True. 

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    • What kind of conquest? Apart from the motivation, Argonians would not even have to fight Thalmor alone. The Empire would gladly join them. And Dunmers would forget all of their conflicts with Argonians only for a chance of beating their yellow-faced kin. The situation in Tamriel will result in Summerset fighting against everybody.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Nobody can conquer Blackmarsh, even Tiber Septim knew that.

      It's like Nam. The Argonians are the only ones used to the conditions and environment, and their guerrilla warfare is unmatched. The Argonians will never lose Blackmarsh.  Dovahsebrom is 100% correct.

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    • I read somewhere that the Thalmor incited the Argonian independence movement at the beginning of the Fourth Era, only for it to blow up in the yellow-skin pricks' faces when the Argonians decided to form their own government (An-Xileel). Correct me if I'm wrong.

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    • It's not in the Dominion's interests to even try to conquer Black Marsh.  Even assuming that they somehow succeeded, they'd have to leave all their troops there in order to keep control, never mind forcing the Argonians to do anything useful.  They'll have much more luck with economic warfare.

      Identify those things which the Argonian society needs or badly wants, and is not able to produce within its own borders.  Metal comes to mind (try mining in a swamp!).  Then launch targeted strikes at those non-Dominion nations which border Black Marsh, specifically aimed to remove their ability to produce those commodities.  The Argonians must then choose whether to do without these products (which will progressively weaken them for a later invasion), or buy from the Dominion on terms which strongly favour the Thalmor.

      The end result is that the Argonians are either weakened to the point where they are no longer a threat, or else forced to do whatever the Thalmor demand in order to maintain necessary trade.  The Argonians really have nothing to bargain with other than their obedience, since it's doubtful that the Dominion depends on anything which is available only from Black Marsh.

      Alternatively, use Argonian traitors or mercenaries to provoke Cyrodiil or Morrowind into invading the Marsh.

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    • I agree with the sweetroll guy (or girl). It is not smart to attack black marsh directly with soldiers (unless they are all pumped up lvl 81 breton vampire spellswords with 353 damage daedric swords with enchanted armor and a huge array of perks). Economic warfare, embargoes and boycotts to Argonian goods to break their economy seems like an intelligent answer, because there are definitely things that the argonians must buy, things that they cannot make. Argonian traitors also seem like a good idea. Numidium was the most stupid thing to attack black marsh as it will sink (Tiber knew this, he was not afraid, just intelligent.)

      Unless, of course, a breton scientist known as Louis Pasteur lets the AD find out about germ theory and they make vaccines. Vaccines=immunity to disease=no more argonian bio warfare. Traitor argonians can solve the problem of guerilla warfare by defenders. If some Altemer makes a breakthrough know as STEROIDS, hist sap seems weak now?

      I really don't understand why everyone advocates Argonian supremacy. Sure, they can be you friend, they have mind uploading, they have body switching. Just because they are cool does not make them win a war, you know? Just like, you could be the most handsome and badass dude in school, but the fat and ugly guy bodyslamming you still hurts and you still lose.

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    • 202.156.8.15 wrote:
      .....It is not smart to attack black marsh directly with soldiers (unless they are all pumped up lvl 81 breton vampire spellswords with 353 damage daedric swords with enchanted armor and a huge array of perks).....

      .....I really don't understand why everyone advocates Argonian supremacy. Sure, they can be you friend, they have mind uploading, they have body switching. Just because they are cool does not make them win a war, you know?

      There are several problems with your "argument", as I shall now point out.

      1. The Aldmeri Domion consists of HIGH ELVES. If there were Bretons in their midst, they would be found and killed. Please refer to Diplomatic Immunity for more.

      2. I don't care about your stats, and neither does anyone else. There are threads for that.

      3. Anyone can be anyone's friend, and I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to in regards to "mind uploading" and "body switching".

      4. They don't win wars by being cool.

      They win wars because they're cooler, faster, smarter, infinitely more badass, and sexier than anyone else.

      And those. Are. FACTS.

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    • Count Creeper373 wrote:
      202.156.8.15 wrote:
      .....It is not smart to attack black marsh directly with soldiers (unless they are all pumped up lvl 81 breton vampire spellswords with 353 damage daedric swords with enchanted armor and a huge array of perks).....

      .....I really don't understand why everyone advocates Argonian supremacy. Sure, they can be you friend, they have mind uploading, they have body switching. Just because they are cool does not make them win a war, you know?

      There are several problems with your "argument", as I shall now point out.

      1. The Aldmeri Domion consists of HIGH ELVES. If there were Bretons in their midst, they would be found and killed. Please refer to Diplomatic Immunity for more.

      2. I don't care about your stats, and neither does anyone else. There are threads for that.

      3. Anyone can be anyone's friend, and I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to in regards to "mind uploading" and "body switching".

      4. They don't win wars by being cool.

      They win wars because they're cooler, faster, smarter, infinitely more badass, and sexier than anyone else.

      And those. Are. FACTS.

      Facepalm...

      Another argonian supremacist here again. The bretons thing (bretons are french, sort off) and Louis Pasteur( the guy who came up with germ theory) was meant as a joke... Nobody got it

      Economic warfare lets weaker countries kill stronger ones, by the way

      Mind uploading= going back to hist when they die. Body switching= downloading from the hist into the argonian babies. I know it sounds wierd, but IT IS COOL and HIGH TECH (sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, A.C. Clarke). Maybe "hist tree"= argonian high tech supercomputer mainframe and "hist sap"=steroids+andrenalin+carbohydrates concentrate?

      I did not post my stats, those are just imaginary stats that I randomly thought up off (Many people use the same IP as me as I use VPN)

      I really don't understand why all the Argonian supremacy. Almost as bad as Zippertrain and his/her nord supremacy and Lord Hadron and his/her Altmer supremacy (I really don't know if they are guys or gals)

      Can't we just accept that everyone has their strong points and flaws? Argonians included

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    • Yeah, of course. Its just that words can't quite convey humor too well, and I'm not too observant sometimes. Also, sorry about the whole ranting thing..... I unfortunately do that sometimes..... please bear with me XD

      Now, I know I'm getting a little off topic here for a minute, but...... aren't Bosmer a fairly bad choice in Skyrim? I mean, with all of my other games, it seems like there isn't any problem when the Dragons shout at me. But when my fancy Bosmer sneaky sneak bro comes along, a Dragon swoops down, uses fire/ ice breath and I die, instantly. Is the whole "wood elf" thing supposed to bring an inherent weakness to things that would damage wood? Should I beware all those who would wield a saw, or start a fire? Is Faendal a hypocrite? Should I stop asking Questions?

      ......yes.

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    • Does you Bosmer have ridiculously low health?

      Also, I know the way to conquer Black Marsh.

      Step 1: Set fire to Black Marsh and wait for all trees to burn.

      Step 2: Become Vampire/Werewolf and immune to disease and poison.

      Step 3: ???

      Step 4: Profit

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    • I think there is something......., deep in the jungles and marshes of Argonia..........

      something deadlier than the Argonians themselves.........

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    • Hbxn wrote:
      I think there is something......., deep in the jungles and marshes of Argonia..........

      something deadlier than the Argonians themselves.........

      Zenimax Studios HQ!

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      Does you Bosmer have ridiculously low health?

      Also, I know the way to conquer Black Marsh.

      Step 1: Set fire to Black Marsh and wait for all trees to burn.

      Step 2: Become Vampire/Werewolf and immune to disease and poison.

      Step 3: ???

      Step 4: Profit

      Profit from what?  You burned everything, now all you've got is mud and ashes!

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    • Somebody Stole My Sweetroll wrote:

      Profit from what?  You burned everything, now all you've got is mud and ashes!

      Obviously fire wouldn't have burned the wealth and mineral resources of the province.

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    • True.  You have, however, destroyed the infrastructure and made refugees of the workforce.  Not to mention the destruction of the Hist, which could otherwise be farmed for highly-profitable sap, if placed under non-Argonian control.

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    • Plus, all the trees and swamps would be gone. That makes it very easy to see armies on one side of Black Marsh from the other. The flip side is.....

      Everybody else can see YOU.

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    • well no cause if the thalmor were planing on destroy black marsh the hist would inform the argonians befor they evan stardet so the argonians will be ready and know almost evrey thing like at dagons invasion.

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    • The Hist only knew about Dagon's invasion because the Hist are from Oblivion and have connections to it. They would not know about the Thalmor.

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    • mabey if the thalmor leader is from oblivion.........(i dunno just gussing i dont want my fav race benig killd by some golden legolas posing f*** faces!!!! D,:)

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    • It's Jurassic Park of Tamriel. Assuming they get past the wildlife, the AD have to deal with the finest warriors of BM.

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    • More to the point why would the aldemirian dominion want it thay have all of Cyrodiil at there finger tips all thay have to do is walk in thare like they did in the Great War, and depending on how you played the game thay have all of Skyrim as well.

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    • Alduin1996
      Alduin1996 removed this reply because:
      Off topic
      19:23, November 4, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • 170.185.46.17 wrote:
      depending on how you played the game thay have all of Skyrim as well.

      Now what does that exactly mean?

      Does that mean that siding with the Empire hands Skyrim over to the Thalmor?

      That joining in Ulfric's uprising leads to an unstable and easily conquered Skyrim?

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    • What some of you seem to not realize is that the Aldmeri dominion would lose half of their men to disease before they lost the other half to the doped up argonian ambushes. The argonians have the greatest defendable territory for them that they could have for these reasons. 1). nobody wants black marsh. Simply put blackmash is pretty worthless and people would be reluctant to attack there anyways. 2). Disease. Disease would take the lives of many of the soldiers as they move through the marsh. 3). homeland advantage. The fact that this is their home would prove both physical and psychological benifits to the argonians like the thick swwamp that is good for ambushing. 4) Hist dope. As pointed out before the hist sap is one hell of a drug. The ability for the argonians to turn into BA killing machines by drinkig tree sap is a massive advantage.

      But they would lose all of these advantages when attacking a different country. Making them your average argonian fellow when attempting to conquer other lands which is probably why they havent.

      Also the Aldmeri Dominion doesnt controll skyrim they controll the Empire (essentially) who controlls Skyrim. But if Ulfric was sided with then they might join thee Redgaurds in rebellion.

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    • The thing about a marsh is that the trees are typically as wet as the water and mud around them. Yes, they have sap on them that would burn, but the moist air and moisture collecting on the trees, which probably hasn't ever been touched, would likely just cause the fires to go out after a given amount of burning, and it is typically more difficult to burn swampland timber as the moisture collects inside the tree itself. Could multiple fireballs burn down the trees? Sure, I bet they could. Could the Argonians lie in wait in the rivers and swamps, jump out, drag the Thalmor into their depths and drown them before they burned down even a sizeable amount of the trees? I bet they could considering they've done that before, as stated in Black Marsh's page. (I haven't got the exact source for it, but even without it the conclussion is pretty logical considering they are expert guirrillas and can breathe under water.)

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    • I'd like to ask why my reply was deleted. I made no verbal attacks, I articulated my point in a manner that was meant to be read as a persuasive debate, and I stated things that can be looked up and shown to be true. What about it was so damning that it was decided that it should not be there?

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    • Apologies, just signed up and I was the one who posted the last two comments. I am sorry about the second one, I posted it as I could not see my first. It's likely that I did not wait long enough, and as I have never posted on a wiki of any sort before I was unused to not seeing it immediately. My sincerest apologies to anyone who wasted time reading it, disregard it please, and I shall be more patient in the future.

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    • I don't know why your message was deleted. Why don't you send me a message about it. 

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    • Alduin1996 wrote:
      I don't know why your message was deleted. Why don't you send me a message about it. 

      It wasn't, I was merely impatient. I do, again, apologize for the confusion.


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    • Okay. Anyway back on topic. 

      In the grand sceme of things how important and wealthy is Black Marsh as a nation. Has it got any economic infrastructure. Do people in Black Marsh trade with money or do they use a barter system. Does it have industry apart from fishing and possibly wood cutting. 

      How do the Argonians treat other races. Do they enslave the other races of Tamriel and force them to do work so they don't have to. 

      The point I am trying to make is that the Argonions are very primitive beings in my mind and remind me of Central American cultures. This is because of the area they live in and part of their culture. I don't think the Aztecs or Mayans used money so if I am correct the Argonions won't use money either. 

      Of course this only applies to native argonions who live in Black Marsh. I have seen use money in Skyrim and Oblivion.

      In summary is Black Marsh classed as a important location for the Aldmeri Dominion and if it is why.

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    • That's a fair question, but really, I think Black Marsh at least has something going for it. I mean, Argonians craft wedding bands unique to each Argonian, and sinced that's the case, where do they find materials for them? Do they mine them as a resource that is actually available of is it traded to them? Not only that, but the Argonian in Riften (Name escapes me) is mentioned to be a "Saxlheel Jewler", is this unique to Argonians? If so, is their jewlery more valuable due to some method they use? I guess, also, if these resources are available, would that not indicate that resources like iron and steel is also readily available? There just isn't enough information to go on to tell if it's worth taking or even if it could be taken with a strategy the Thalmor could concoct. It just appears to me to be the age old argument of an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. We can speculate all we want, but it's really only just that in the end of it.

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    • Don't the native Argonians have some sort of telepathic collective through the Hist?

      Maybe the Thalmor are going to be running around like Colonel Dietrich, in search of any sort of mythological or religious artifact to give them an edge. If so, perhaps they believe they will be able to harness the power of the Hist for their own nefarious purposes.

      1 Kudo to whoever can tell me where that reference is from.

      Without looking it up.

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    • Alduin1996 wrote:
      Or send in cannon fodder


      Or Canon Fodder? ;)

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    • Count Creeper373 wrote:
      Don't the native Argonians have some sort of telepathic collective through the Hist?

      Maybe the Thalmor are going to be running around like Colonel Dietrich, in search of any sort of mythological or religious artifact to give them an edge. If so, perhaps they believe they will be able to harness the power of the Hist for their own nefarious purposes.

      1 Kudo to whoever can tell me where that reference is from.

      Without looking it up.

      I'm gonna guess "Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Ark".

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    • It's either that or "Last Crusade".

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    • And thus, an Argonian named Kesch earned his Kudo.

      Although, technically, it was just "Raiders of the Lost Ark". It wasn't changed to "Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark" until it was rereleased.

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    • I'm in my early twenties, I never really would have known that without Googling it, which I've never had reason to as I never guessed it had another name.

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    • My dad saw it back when it came out.

      He told me, to be honest XD

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    • Count Creeper373 wrote:
      My dad saw it back when it came out.

      He told me, to be honest XD

      Can you please post stuff relevant to the Thalmor invading Blackmarsh 

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    • SWAMPS, you can't burn down swamp trees very easily, stop saying they'll just torch it, most swamp/jungle/rainforrest trees are very moist, sure parts of them could burn, but unless they add gas to the flames they're not going to do too much damage with fire, especially when the argonians could easily put out the flames when the swamps are surrounded by swamp water.

      and you all know that if the AD attacks Blackmarsh the argonians can send about thirty soldiers to tear apart AD ships and spear down anyone who lands in the water, The Summerset Isles will be cut off.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      SWAMPS, you can't burn down swamp trees very easily, stop saying they'll just torch it, most swamp/jungle/rainforrest trees are very moist, sure parts of them could burn, but unless they add gas to the flames they're not going to do too much damage with fire, especially when the argonians could easily put out the flames when the swamps are surrounded by swamp water.

      and you all know that if the AD attacks Blackmarsh the argonians can send about thirty soldiers to tear apart AD ships and spear down anyone who lands in the water, The Summerset Isles will be cut off.

      Not to mention most of the Argonians could take refuge in the water, if they tried to burn anything down. 

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    • Alduin1996 wrote:
      Okay. Anyway back on topic. 

      In the grand sceme of things how important and wealthy is Black Marsh as a nation. Has it got any economic infrastructure. Do people in Black Marsh trade with money or do they use a barter system. Does it have industry apart from fishing and possibly wood cutting. 

      How do the Argonians treat other races. Do they enslave the other races of Tamriel and force them to do work so they don't have to. 

      The point I am trying to make is that the Argonions are very primitive beings in my mind and remind me of Central American cultures. This is because of the area they live in and part of their culture. I don't think the Aztecs or Mayans used money so if I am correct the Argonions won't use money either. 

      Of course this only applies to native argonions who live in Black Marsh. I have seen use money in Skyrim and Oblivion.

      In summary is Black Marsh classed as a important location for the Aldmeri Dominion and if it is why.

      I'll answer these questions: 

      Considering that Black Marsh has a lot of Daedric Weapons and armor and make fortunes selling slaves, I would say they're doing great. 

      They enslave other Argonians, atleast tribes like the Archeins do. Other then that, I don't think they do. 

      Central American cultures were extremely advanced, especially in things like architecture, mathmatics, etc. So if they are based on Meso-American people then odds are they're pretty advanced. 

      Odds are it would be considered important to the Isles, not only for their Tamrielic conquest but because the Hist Tree may be a tower. But the thing is, the Aldmeri Dominion are simply not strong enough to invade a province like Black Marsh. Not even the Daedra could do it! How would a bunch of Elves? 

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      The Hist only knew about Dagon's invasion because the Hist are from Oblivion and have connections to it. They would not know about the Thalmor.

      The Hist are not from Oblivion, they're survivors from a previous Kalpa. 

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Man of steak wrote:
      The Hist only knew about Dagon's invasion because the Hist are from Oblivion and have connections to it. They would not know about the Thalmor.
      The Hist are not from Oblivion, they're survivors from a previous Kalpa. 


      There are some hist-like trees in Oblivion, though, most notably those that end up on Umbriel.

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    • Timeoin wrote:

      There are some hist-like trees in Oblivion, though, most notably those that end up on Umbriel.

      And we know both the Tamriel-Hists and the Umbriel-Hists are connected, as demonstrated when Vuhon used the Umbriel ones to communicate with the An-Xileel via the Tamriel ones.

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    • They could invade with enough strategy and planning but it wouldn't last long as disease would kill any aldmeri soldier stationed there.

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    • strategy and planning kind of fall short when the argonians can get all their commands instantly through the hist.

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    • ok the thalmor have already shown there cruelty in the great war, so who's to say they won't just burn black marsh to the ground and be done with it?

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      SWAMPS, you can't burn down swamp trees very easily, stop saying they'll just torch it, most swamp/jungle/rainforrest trees are very moist, sure parts of them could burn, but unless they add gas to the flames they're not going to do too much damage with fire, especially when the argonians could easily put out the flames when the swamps are surrounded by swamp water.

      and you all know that if the AD attacks Blackmarsh the argonians can send about thirty soldiers to tear apart AD ships and spear down anyone who lands in the water, The Summerset Isles will be cut off.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      SWAMPS, you can't burn down swamp trees very easily, stop saying they'll just torch it, most swamp/jungle/rainforrest trees are very moist, sure parts of them could burn, but unless they add gas to the flames they're not going to do too much damage with fire, especially when the argonians could easily put out the flames when the swamps are surrounded by swamp water.

      and you all know that if the AD attacks Blackmarsh the argonians can send about thirty soldiers to tear apart AD ships and spear down anyone who lands in the water, The Summerset Isles will be cut off.

      And Knahaten Flu, it originated in Argonia, kill humans and elves alike. After some study of the flu they discovered two things, it comes from a spore plant that they worship and Argonians are unable to die from it, rumors said that the Argonians created it to get rid of enemies.

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    • Well, in all seriousness, why would they even bother? they want the white gold tower, not blackmarsh. all they have to do is make it seem like an argonian started something in morrowind aginst a great house, and bam, ebonhearth pack falls apart.

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    • 164.116.47.202 wrote:
      Well, in all seriousness, why would they even bother? they want the white gold tower, not blackmarsh. all they have to do is make it seem like an argonian started something in morrowind aginst a great house, and bam, ebonhearth pack falls apart.

      Not really.

      Nothing unified a group of people like a very "foreign" enemy, as it highlights just how similar the differing groups are. In this case, it was the Akaviri Invasion by the Snow Prince. They are still bound by this common thread, and the three groups are, for now at least, very strong allies. It would take quite a lot to upset this balance. The Argonians know they have absolutely nothing to gain from attacking a Morrowind house, as they are finally free and treated as equals. The other allies in the pact know this as well. In short... they would see through the Aldmeri treachery. (Not to mention the fact that the Tribunal would tell them that it was lies)

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      SWAMPS, you can't burn down swamp trees very easily, stop saying they'll just torch it, most swamp/jungle/rainforrest trees are very moist, sure parts of them could burn, but unless they add gas to the flames they're not going to do too much damage with fire, especially when the argonians could easily put out the flames when the swamps are surrounded by swamp water.

      and you all know that if the AD attacks Blackmarsh the argonians can send about thirty soldiers to tear apart AD ships and spear down anyone who lands in the water, The Summerset Isles will be cut off.

      I like how this is nearly a word-for-word answer that I gave previously, yet everybody quotes you on it. Funny how one person who is right can be ignored until another guy comes along and says the exact same thing in a more blunt manner.

      Thanks for the credit, Edison.

      Sincerely, Tesla.

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    • Why don't they give all the troops a necklace or ring of disease immunity?

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    • Some Argonian Named Kesch wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      SWAMPS, you can't burn down swamp trees very easily, stop saying they'll just torch it, most swamp/jungle/rainforrest trees are very moist, sure parts of them could burn, but unless they add gas to the flames they're not going to do too much damage with fire, especially when the argonians could easily put out the flames when the swamps are surrounded by swamp water.

      and you all know that if the AD attacks Blackmarsh the argonians can send about thirty soldiers to tear apart AD ships and spear down anyone who lands in the water, The Summerset Isles will be cut off.

      I like how this is nearly a word-for-word answer that I gave previously, yet everybody quotes you on it. Funny how one person who is right can be ignored until another guy comes along and says the exact same thing in a more blunt manner.

      Thanks for the credit, Edison.

      Sincerely, Tesla.

      who you calling edison? you time travelling edison.

      nah, I don't know why I got the credit. I didn't see your post before I posted, I just saw a ton of people arguing for burning down the trees.

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    • Alduin1996 wrote:
      Why don't they give all the troops a necklace or ring of disease immunity?

      Gameplay doesn't equal lore. If getting disease immunity was that easy, then things like the Kanahaten Flu would've barely caused any issues. 

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    • Pink Slim wrote: SWAMPS, you can't burn down swamp trees very easily, stop saying they'll just torch it, most swamp/jungle/rainforrest trees are very moist, sure parts of them could burn, but unless they add gas to the flames they're not going to do too much damage with fire, especially when the argonians could easily put out the flames when the swamps are surrounded by swamp water.

      and you all know that if the AD attacks Blackmarsh the argonians can send about thirty soldiers to tear apart AD ships and spear down anyone who lands in the water, The Summerset Isles will be cut off.

      This has been a common, reply, but it really depends on the type of swamp, cause some swamps are so full of fermenting gases, oils and vapors that they can literally explode. So, this point is still based upon what type of swamp black marsh is

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    • I doubt all of blackmarsh is covered in gas and vapors, and if the AD troops went and exploded those areas that are, they'd probably wipe out a large force of their own soldiers, and unless they kill off an even greater force than what they lost the argonians would still be better off

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    • I don't know if somebody put this already, but I'm putting it anyway. I read somewhere on here that the Aldmeri Dominion incited rebellion in Black Marsh after the Oblivion Crisis, but they couldn't take it over due to the An-Xileel. I'm probably wrong, but if it's true, what makes it believable that the AD could do it the second time if they couldn't do it the first?

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    • Canes4ever wrote:
      I don't know if somebody put this already, but I'm putting it anyway. I read somewhere on here that the Aldmeri Dominion incited rebellion in Black Marsh after the Oblivion Crisis, but they couldn't take it over due to the An-Xileel. I'm probably wrong, but if it's true, what makes it believable that the AD could do it the second time if they couldn't do it the first?

      That's just a rumour, it's probably untrue though. 

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    • Since you mentioned it... the An-Xileel is an excellent example of just what is wrong with the Aldmeri Dominion.

      The An-Xileel actually DID SOMETHING during the Oblivion Crisis. Sure, afterwards, they questioned why they should be part of an empire that didn't support them (a legitimate point), but the fact is that the actually did something, and didn't wait for others to solve the problem.

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    • Your are forgetting. When the Aldmeri Dominion march on Black Marsh, they will bring the Bosmer, and The Kajhit with them. But, The Empire are going to come down hard on this. The war will rage after the events of TES: 5 possibly. The Empire will be attacked again, chances are being crippled heavily. The Nords will not stand by while this happens. That brings them down on the dominion. Because the Dominion want to kill all mankind, the Redguards will get involved, and because the loss of strength fighting everything else, they will perish. We all remember what happened last time they attacked the Redguards at low health. But none of this matters, because it falls on what the Bethesda want to happen. It's like to be honest, the dragonborn could easily in game kill all of Skyrim if he so chose, but it does not affect the next game and it doesn't matter to the plot.

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    • 78.151.44.156 wrote:
      Your are forgetting. When the Aldmeri Dominion march on Black Marsh, they will bring the Bosmer, and The Kajhit with them. But, The Empire are going to come down hard on this. The war will rage after the events of TES: 5 possibly. The Empire will be attacked again, chances are being crippled heavily. The Nords will not stand by while this happens. That brings them down on the dominion. Because the Dominion want to kill all mankind, the Redguards will get involved, and because the loss of strength fighting everything else, they will perish. We all remember what happened last time they attacked the Redguards at low health. But none of this matters, because it falls on what the Bethesda want to happen. It's like to be honest, the dragonborn could easily in game kill all of Skyrim if he so chose, but it does not affect the next game and it doesn't matter to the plot.

      The Khajiit and Bosmer don't fight for the Dominion. 

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    • Wrong, Zip, the Thalmor consist of the Bosmer race and Khajiiti race as well, as it has in the other Two Dominions, I think this Dominon, the 3rd one, had the Mane killed and dissolved the Khajiit Confederacy and made them part of the Thalmor.

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    • They don't fight for them, I'll explain why. The Bosmer are oppressed by the Dominion and are purged often, the Khajiit have do NOT share any interests with the Thalmor, why would any country waste their army fighting a cause they don't believe in. Not sure where you heard they killed the mane, I did hear that they made a pact with the Dominion though. 

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    • Explain why there are sometimes Bosmer soldiers in the Thalmor at the Embassy when you are going to Elenwen's quarters, hmm? The Bosmer ones look similar to human due to skin color.

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    • They're merely low servents, hired by the Dominion independently.

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    • But the Bosmer are called Thalmor Soldier

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    • When? 

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    • In the Embassy, I fought a Wood Elf Thalmor Soldier on one of my records, I was all like "Oh hell no, is that a Human!?" and I took off the helmet, it was pointy ears, and the closest human-skin-color Elf is a Bosmer.

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    • 78.151.44.156 wrote:
      Your are forgetting. When the Aldmeri Dominion march on Black Marsh, they will bring the Bosmer, and The Kajhit with them. But, The Empire are going to come down hard on this. The war will rage after the events of TES: 5 possibly. The Empire will be attacked again, chances are being crippled heavily. The Nords will not stand by while this happens. That brings them down on the dominion. Because the Dominion want to kill all mankind, the Redguards will get involved, and because the loss of strength fighting everything else, they will perish. We all remember what happened last time they attacked the Redguards at low health. But none of this matters, because it falls on what the Bethesda want to happen. It's like to be honest, the dragonborn could easily in game kill all of Skyrim if he so chose, but it does not affect the next game and it doesn't matter to the plot.

      I don't see how having the AD attack everyone else would make it any easier for them to take over Blackmarsh, hell even if they had every single one of their soldiers I still wouldn't bet on the AD taking over blackmarsh.

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    • the aldmeri dominion can't take black marsh, at least not by any means we know at this moment, the argonians are in their home turf, they have every advantage.


      1) they are in their homeland, they know the land better than anyone else.

      2) said land is full of diseases and argonians are inmune to many of them if not all.

      3) said land is also a swamp, swamps are a very difficult terrain to move trough, so forget about steady supply lines.

      4) argonians being what they are. are perfectly adapted to the swamp being able to breathe underwater as well as being superb swimers.

      5) the hist and it's many vitues, sap, hive-mind, etc.

      even if the AD wanted to burn a path trought the swamp, and im not even sure they could, they will suffer an incredible amount of casualties, you can smear arrow points whit all kind of stuff that would make a scratch become infected and put a soldier on his back or even kill said soldier.

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    • Ketick1998 wrote:
      In the Embassy, I fought a Wood Elf Thalmor Soldier on one of my records, I was all like "Oh hell no, is that a Human!?" and I took off the helmet, it was pointy ears, and the closest human-skin-color Elf is a Bosmer.

      That's never happened to me once. So I don't know.

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    • There's another good reason the AD wouldn't be able to take Black Marsh. I'd assume we'd all agree that the Redguards and loyal people of Hammerfell would certainly love to hamstring the AD as soon as their focus is shifted on someplace like Black Marsh, considering they fought AD forces to a standstill before the events of Skyrim. So, even if the AD brought their full might against BM, whats left of the Empire, Hammerfell (despite hating the Empire for abandoning them, I'm sure their hatred for the AD outweighs this) and (depending on how the canon lore for Skyrim would be) the Nords of Skyrim would certainly be able to screw their plans over multiple times. Most people already established that BM is pretty much unliveable to anyone but Argonians, and after brutally defeating Daedra in their own gates and realm (with the aid of the Hist Sap) would convey the feeling that 1 Argonian footsoldier doped up could take out...I'll be generous and say 5 Aldmeri footsoldiers. The only REAL difference would be the amount of magic the AD has compared to the population of BM.

      Also, to those suggesting the only way to beat BM being an economic defeat, I like to refer to The Argonian Account books ingame, though I know they may not be 100% canon, that BM can and has provided its own food for its province quite easily. If anything, the An-Xileel could literally just tighten up farms and populations to focus on survival for their own people.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote: Nobody can conquer Blackmarsh, even Tiber Septim knew that.

      This is actually a false statement. The Blackmarsh was the name given to the parts of Argonia that had been taken by the empire. No they didn't take all of the Argonia but they had assumed control in the areas they felt comfortable being in. The only reason that the empire isn't there now is because the plague that had afflicted the non-reptilian beings in Argonia and the surrounding areas. And as stated in the original question, the diseases you were reffering to that make Argonia uninhabitable are actually the one plague that had driven out the non-reptilian species I mentioned earlier. As for the origanal question however, I do not believe it to be possible for the Dominion to conquer the Argonians. The Argonian's guerilla warfare would be to much for the Mer to handle. That being said, I do not believe the Dominion would even try because they would most likeley come to the same conclusion that I have and Argonia is not really all that desirable, all it is is a prize to say that they have it. Although if they for some reason did want Argonia, I believe they might try to sort things out diplomaticaly as to not start a conflict because even what the empire had controlled wasn't exactly taken from the Argonians, when they were taking land they were met with little to no resistance.

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    • Are we talking about the Fourth Era Aldmeri Dominion here? Because if so - then they would also face stiff resistance from the An-Xileel.

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    • SilentEditor wrote:
      There's another good reason the AD wouldn't be able to take Black Marsh. I'd assume we'd all agree that the Redguards and loyal people of Hammerfell would certainly love to hamstring the AD as soon as their focus is shifted on someplace like Black Marsh, considering they fought AD forces to a standstill before the events of Skyrim. So, even if the AD brought their full might against BM, whats left of the Empire, Hammerfell (despite hating the Empire for abandoning them, I'm sure their hatred for the AD outweighs this) and (depending on how the canon lore for Skyrim would be) the Nords of Skyrim would certainly be able to screw their plans over multiple times. Most people already established that BM is pretty much unliveable to anyone but Argonians, and after brutally defeating Daedra in their own gates and realm (with the aid of the Hist Sap) would convey the feeling that 1 Argonian footsoldier doped up could take out...I'll be generous and say 5 Aldmeri footsoldiers. The only REAL difference would be the amount of magic the AD has compared to the population of BM.

      Also, to those suggesting the only way to beat BM being an economic defeat, I like to refer to The Argonian Account books ingame, though I know they may not be 100% canon, that BM can and has provided its own food for its province quite easily. If anything, the An-Xileel could literally just tighten up farms and populations to focus on survival for their own people.

      Actually, I believe the Argonians do have magical aptitude. 

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    • Bosmer can resist  disease and poison (Same with Altmer at one point) So it isn't that hard to see.

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      SilentEditor wrote:
      There's another good reason the AD wouldn't be able to take Black Marsh. I'd assume we'd all agree that the Redguards and loyal people of Hammerfell would certainly love to hamstring the AD as soon as their focus is shifted on someplace like Black Marsh, considering they fought AD forces to a standstill before the events of Skyrim. So, even if the AD brought their full might against BM, whats left of the Empire, Hammerfell (despite hating the Empire for abandoning them, I'm sure their hatred for the AD outweighs this) and (depending on how the canon lore for Skyrim would be) the Nords of Skyrim would certainly be able to screw their plans over multiple times. Most people already established that BM is pretty much unliveable to anyone but Argonians, and after brutally defeating Daedra in their own gates and realm (with the aid of the Hist Sap) would convey the feeling that 1 Argonian footsoldier doped up could take out...I'll be generous and say 5 Aldmeri footsoldiers. The only REAL difference would be the amount of magic the AD has compared to the population of BM.

      Also, to those suggesting the only way to beat BM being an economic defeat, I like to refer to The Argonian Account books ingame, though I know they may not be 100% canon, that BM can and has provided its own food for its province quite easily. If anything, the An-Xileel could literally just tighten up farms and populations to focus on survival for their own people.

      Actually, I believe the Argonians do have magical aptitude. 

      Oh, they do, I'm not saying Argonians are terrible mages. I'm just saying High Elves are, lore-wise, much more powerful magic-wise and most likely have a higher percent of mages than Black Marsh, though we don't know for sure, since Argonians from BM are so secretive. Who knows, they could have some super amazing poison and disease causing spells since they're around it all the time. As for that Knahaten Flu, no one knows exactly if its natural or a spell whipped up by an angry Argonian shaman, so its quite possible they have access to spells no one else does. It's just that of current "known" statistics, AD mages are more numerous and the only real threat to Argonians in their home turf. And even they wouldn't last long >_>

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    • Hist. Discussion over.

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    • SilentEditor wrote:
      Zippertrain85 wrote:
      SilentEditor wrote:
      There's another good reason the AD wouldn't be able to take Black Marsh. I'd assume we'd all agree that the Redguards and loyal people of Hammerfell would certainly love to hamstring the AD as soon as their focus is shifted on someplace like Black Marsh, considering they fought AD forces to a standstill before the events of Skyrim. So, even if the AD brought their full might against BM, whats left of the Empire, Hammerfell (despite hating the Empire for abandoning them, I'm sure their hatred for the AD outweighs this) and (depending on how the canon lore for Skyrim would be) the Nords of Skyrim would certainly be able to screw their plans over multiple times. Most people already established that BM is pretty much unliveable to anyone but Argonians, and after brutally defeating Daedra in their own gates and realm (with the aid of the Hist Sap) would convey the feeling that 1 Argonian footsoldier doped up could take out...I'll be generous and say 5 Aldmeri footsoldiers. The only REAL difference would be the amount of magic the AD has compared to the population of BM.

      Also, to those suggesting the only way to beat BM being an economic defeat, I like to refer to The Argonian Account books ingame, though I know they may not be 100% canon, that BM can and has provided its own food for its province quite easily. If anything, the An-Xileel could literally just tighten up farms and populations to focus on survival for their own people.

      Actually, I believe the Argonians do have magical aptitude. 
      Oh, they do, I'm not saying Argonians are terrible mages. I'm just saying High Elves are, lore-wise, much more powerful magic-wise and most likely have a higher percent of mages than Black Marsh, though we don't know for sure, since Argonians from BM are so secretive. Who knows, they could have some super amazing poison and disease causing spells since they're around it all the time. As for that Knahaten Flu, no one knows exactly if its natural or a spell whipped up by an angry Argonian shaman, so its quite possible they have access to spells no one else does. It's just that of current "known" statistics, AD mages are more numerous and the only real threat to Argonians in their home turf. And even they wouldn't last long >_>

      Yeah, that is true. I still think the Thalmor would get tramped if they tried to invade Argonia. 

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    • Anyone who tries to invade Black-Marsh would probably end up like the USA after Vietnam.

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    • Everyone who says that the Dominion could burn down the swamp should try and start a fire with a piece that's been soaking in water for a few days. These are swamp trees in a very damp and humid enviroment. Sure with enough magical fire you could eventually light a few to the point where they continue to burn but the spread of the fire would be so laughable that it wouldn't be worth the wasted Magika. On top of that the mages trying to burt the trees would be under attack by the Argonians. If we were to put the Argonian military and the Aldemeri Dominion's forces on a neutral plane in open combat I'd bet on the Aldemeri but the matter of fact is that you can't beat the Argonian on their home turf.

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    • I think we should take into account the fact that Argonians have, on multiple occasions, gone to fight people on their home turf and every time the Argonians do so , they completely demolish them. I mean destroying tons of Dremora in Oblivion, I think thats a good enough point to say that the Aldmeri Dominion wouldn't be able to beat the Argonians if they were to fight somewhere other than Argonia. I bet the Argonians could defeat, if not, do tons of damage if they were to go to Vallenwood and fight.

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    • Someone said it above... the An-Xileel actually got involved during the Oblivion Crisis, and were fighting the Daedra. The Thalmor, from what we know, stayed in their Crystal Tower, and put on a big show, and claimed responsibility for the gates being closed in Summerset Isles, after Martin closed the gates using the Amulet of Kings. (Incidentally... the Amulet of Kings plays a part in the main storyline in ESO).

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    • Timeoin wrote:
      Someone said it above... the An-Xileel actually got involved during the Oblivion Crisis, and were fighting the Daedra. The Thalmor, from what we know, stayed in their Crystal Tower, and put on a big show, and claimed responsibility for the gates being closed in Summerset Isles, after Martin closed the gates using the Amulet of Kings. (Incidentally... the Amulet of Kings plays a part in the main storyline in ESO).

      They didn't only get "involved", the An-Xileel actually made the Daedra close the Oblivion Gates because they were literally FLOODING the Deadlands.

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      Timeoin wrote:
      Someone said it above... the An-Xileel actually got involved during the Oblivion Crisis, and were fighting the Daedra. The Thalmor, from what we know, stayed in their Crystal Tower, and put on a big show, and claimed responsibility for the gates being closed in Summerset Isles, after Martin closed the gates using the Amulet of Kings. (Incidentally... the Amulet of Kings plays a part in the main storyline in ESO).
      They didn't only get "involved", the An-Xileel actually made the Daedra close the Oblivion Gates because they were literally FLOODING the Deadlands.

      Correct. Dagon had to close the gates in fear that they were going to completely take over. 

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    • Exactly! The Thalmor, on the other hand, sat in  the Crystal Tower, and promised to do something... Eventually 

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    • Those Thalmor...

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      The Aldmer had the first empire, which spanned all of Tamriel. They definitely did, multiple in-game books agree, I can't remember which ones though.

      The Aldmer may have had the first empire, but the aldmer are technically extinct. The Altmer (along with all other elves and possibly humans) are merely descended from the Aldmer

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    • If the Dominion were to conquer Black Marsh, it could happen in one of two ways: 1) The Talos strategy - the Dominion attacks and conquers only the cities vital to occupation and avoid the dense inner swamps.  2) The Thalmor strategy - the Thalmor covertly and simultaneously eliminate and occupy all positions of power, leaving all possible resistance disorganized and ineffective. Either way is effective.

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    • 108.203.30.44 wrote:
      Man of steak wrote:
      The Aldmer had the first empire, which spanned all of Tamriel. They definitely did, multiple in-game books agree, I can't remember which ones though.
      The Aldmer may have had the first empire, but the aldmer are technically extinct. The Altmer (along with all other elves and possibly humans) are merely descended from the Aldmer


      The "first" empire - but not the First Empire. That one belongs to the Nords, or Alessia, depending on the context to which it is used. (Why? Who knows - its just how it "is", for some reason).

      Oh, and the First Era was actually started because of the Camoran Dynasty. (As in the Bosmer family, not Mankar Camoran).

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    • Don't you guys rmemeber, the Bosmer and in some games the Altmer can resist Disease. It wouldn't be that difficult to overcome the disease.

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    • Supersonicman wrote:
      Don't you guys rmemeber, the Bosmer and in some games the Altmer can resist Disease. It wouldn't be that difficult to overcome the disease.

      The diseases are only the first problem, it's also one of the weakest problems.

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    • Also, you can't technically "resist" all diseases. It might be that way for gameplay purposes, but it's biologically impossible. And since a lot of diseases from Black Marsh occur nowhere else in Tamriel, they probably have no resistance to it. 

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Also, you can't technically "resist" all diseases. It might be that way for gameplay purposes, but it's biologically impossible. And since a lot of diseases from Black Marsh occur nowhere else in Tamriel, they probably have no resistance to it. 

      TES Universe =/= Real Life.

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Also, you can't technically "resist" all diseases. It might be that way for gameplay purposes, but it's biologically impossible. And since a lot of diseases from Black Marsh occur nowhere else in Tamriel, they probably have no resistance to it. 
      TES Universe =/= Real Life.

      They still follow basic physical rules. 

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Also, you can't technically "resist" all diseases. It might be that way for gameplay purposes, but it's biologically impossible. And since a lot of diseases from Black Marsh occur nowhere else in Tamriel, they probably have no resistance to it. 
      TES Universe =/= Real Life.
      They still follow basic physical rules. 

      I have yet to see a case of Argonians contracting any natural diseases. Even most diseases created by magic have difficulty affecting them. The fact is Argonians are far different than Man or Mer. It may not be so much as they have a superior immune system as much as it is they lack the biology necessary to become infected with most diseases. All we know is that in both game and lore Argonians are famous for their resistance to disease.

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    • Dark Jeto wrote:
      Zippertrain85 wrote:
      AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Also, you can't technically "resist" all diseases. It might be that way for gameplay purposes, but it's biologically impossible. And since a lot of diseases from Black Marsh occur nowhere else in Tamriel, they probably have no resistance to it. 
      TES Universe =/= Real Life.
      They still follow basic physical rules. 
      I have yet to see a case of Argonians contracting any natural diseases. Even most diseases created by magic have difficulty affecting them. The fact is Argonians are far different than Man or Mer. It may not be so much as they have a superior immune system as much as it is they lack the biology necessary to become infected with most diseases. All we know is that in both game and lore Argonians are famous for their resistance to disease.

      Altmer & Bosmer, not so much. 

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    • No army could hold Black Marsh by conventional means. The Thalmor would have to find some way to take out the hist first, only then could the Argonians be tamed.

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Dark Jeto wrote:
      Zippertrain85 wrote:
      AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Also, you can't technically "resist" all diseases. It might be that way for gameplay purposes, but it's biologically impossible. And since a lot of diseases from Black Marsh occur nowhere else in Tamriel, they probably have no resistance to it. 
      TES Universe =/= Real Life.
      They still follow basic physical rules. 
      I have yet to see a case of Argonians contracting any natural diseases. Even most diseases created by magic have difficulty affecting them. The fact is Argonians are far different than Man or Mer. It may not be so much as they have a superior immune system as much as it is they lack the biology necessary to become infected with most diseases. All we know is that in both game and lore Argonians are famous for their resistance to disease.
      Altmer & Bosmer, not so much. 

      I believe that is largely to do with the Hist.

      But whilst you are discussing diseases in game - you can have full resistance to everything. (Natural resistance + buffs) - and you will still contract Corprus Disease.

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    • Timeoin wrote:
      Someone said it above... the An-Xileel actually got involved during the Oblivion Crisis, and were fighting the Daedra. The Thalmor, from what we know, stayed in their Crystal Tower, and put on a big show, and claimed responsibility for the gates being closed in Summerset Isles, after Martin closed the gates using the Amulet of Kings. (Incidentally... the Amulet of Kings plays a part in the main storyline in ESO).

      well the high elves as a nation (not the Thalmore) did hold back the daedra for a time until they started rungin low on supplies, they did better than most countries but yeah without Akatosh defeating Dagon i doubt they would have held off for much longer. then again you could say the same for Argonia, if Dagon wasnt killed then eventually he would have overwhelmed their nation as well regardless of them destroying a few of teh gates

      anyways i think the way things stand with the Thalmore fighting the Empire's remnants and Hammerfall, no they wouldnt do too well but if they didnt have beef with the rest of tamriel at the moment they would have a rather diverse force of Khajit, Wild and High elves to invade Black Marsh and they would probly win (at least in the cities, thats for sure), would suffer a lot of casulties tho from disease however 

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    • Timeoin wrote:

      But whilst you are discussing diseases in game - you can have full resistance to everything. (Natural resistance + buffs) - and you will still contract Corprus Disease.

      I'm not entirely sure if Corprus could even be considered as a "disease". I mean, yes, I know its technically a spreadable, contagious disease, but its more akin to a curse than anything else. It doesn't even have a damn cure! Unless, that is, you're some kind of Reincarnated Messiah figure. Which most Thalmor Soldiers are not (I hope). Now the Knahaten Flu?

      That was pretty much biological warfare. All the Argonians would need is another bout of THAT (along with some warnings for their non reptilian allies) and the Aldmeri Dominion would be pretty much done.

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    • Count Creeper373 wrote:
      Timeoin wrote:

      But whilst you are discussing diseases in game - you can have full resistance to everything. (Natural resistance + buffs) - and you will still contract Corprus Disease.

      I'm not entirely sure if Corprus could even be considered as a "disease". I mean, yes, I know its technically a spreadable, contagious disease, but its more akin to a curse than anything else. It doesn't even have a damn cure! Unless, that is, you're some kind of Reincarnated Messiah figure. Which most Thalmor Soldiers are not (I hope). Now the Knahaten Flu?

      That was pretty much biological warfare. All the Argonians would need is another bout of THAT (along with some warnings for their non reptilian allies) and the Aldmeri Dominion would be pretty much done.

      I was going to say ... um, its literally called Corprus Disease :P

      And the lack of a cure does not mean that it is not a disease - just that noone has found a cure for it, or that it is a very advanced disease.

      As for the Knahaten Flu ... they have said a few times that its important to the story somehow (Ebonheart Pact story, that is), much like Foalchu is for the Daggerfall Covenant ... and presumably the Maomer for the Aldmeri Dominion.

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    • Hmm.

      Yeah I haven't really been looking into ESO that much.

      Also I always thought it was just called Corprus.... oh well

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    • I just went in an re-checked the dialogue in-game. It's Corprus Disease. (But it's also called Corprus because the second is kind of redundant).

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    • Not sure if anyone has pointed this out, but there is an in-game book detailing how an argonian blacksmith and the "best blacksmith in tamriel" got into a challenge to make better armor and the argonian won the challenge by using traditional argonian craft which is made of hides and scales and easily beat the other dude decked out in ebony armor. That proves that native argonians would not need iron or steel to make weapons and armor so if they did have those supplies cut off, the argonians would probably start to use their scale and hide armors that have been proven to be effective fighting against ebony weapons and armor. I believe the book is called "The armorers challenge".

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    • 206.176.81.242 wrote:
      Not sure if anyone has pointed this out, but there is an in-game book detailing how an argonian blacksmith and the "best blacksmith in tamriel" got into a challenge to make better armor and the argonian won the challenge by using traditional argonian craft which is made of hides and scales and easily beat the other dude decked out in ebony armor. That proves that native argonians would not need iron or steel to make weapons and armor so if they did have those supplies cut off, the argonians would probably start to use their scale and hide armors that have been proven to be effective fighting against ebony weapons and armor. I believe the book is called "The armorers challenge".

      2/3 of the AD races are known for wearing light armor,and the other 1/3 race is known to usually wear mages robes, but when clad in armor they often wear light armors, this means they will less likely be slowed down in the mud and muck of Blackmarsh, though the argonians will still have a much greater advantage than them in this envirnomnent.

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    • Black Marsh could be very rich in minerals. While it might be difficult for others to mine, water-breathing Argonians would have much less trouble. So an embargo of "strategic" materials might only hurt the economies of the areas in the Dominion that were exporting them to Black Marsh. Just like what happened when the president of the U.S.A. had the bright idea to put a wheat embargo on the U.S.S.R., the  people hurt the most were the American wheat farmers.

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    • Black Marsh is pretty unexplored, and would probably have some rare materials. 

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    • Well, alchemy wise it may have some very useful materials. I just don't see Black Marsh as being rich in either metals or gems though.

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    • Oil, gas, salt and sulfur are all extracted from the swamps of Louisiana. That humans aren't waterbreathers has limited traditional mining, but there are other minerals there. Any mineral, including metals and gems may exist in the strata underlying a swamp.

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    • Why is everything always inevitably about America?

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    • Thalmor:

      Advanced equipment/Technology

      Advanced tactics

      Advanced Mages

      Few actual or experienced troops/footsoldiers

      Much cannonfodder (That also doesn´t have much experienced/skilled soldiers)

      Many enemies in Tamriel

      Argonians:

      Suitable terrain (Can be burned down by the Thalmor mages)

      Tons of lethal diseases (Though Altmer have a great resistance against diseases, their cannonfodder does not)

      Skilled Archers

      Skilled Scouts

      Skilled Assassins

      Regenerative abilities

      Hist tree sap --> Turns Argonians into Uberwarriors (Could even outmatch the Daedric forces during the Oblivion-crisis)

      HIST! ----> Superior tactics, ralying of the Argonian people (Wich will then outmatch the Thalmor on a large scale), Hist tree sap, rise of morals and fighting spirit, ties to Oblivion, Intelligence

      In my opinion the Argonians would win, at least militarily, should the Thalmor be stupid enough to attack Blackmarsh.

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    • Timeoin wrote:
      Why is everything always inevitably about America?

      Come on, we live in Florida (in America), so we used an example from a nearby location we know well. It had nothing to do with America, per se.

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    • Well... okay then.

      But that doesn't mean I have to LIKE it :P

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    • I think the Argonians would win. They have resistance to poison and stuff.

      If the Aldmeri Dominion would try to burn the trees of Black Marsh, they might fail. Specially when it's foggy.

      Swamplands can be foggy. Burning the trees there would just increase the fog and would give the Argonians some advantage as they are sneaky and could eliminate the Thalmor mages easily. Also they can breathe underwater. Which gives them a HUGE advantage. Argonians knows their swamp too well so they won't really get seperated if the fog increases.

      If the Aldmeri Dominion wants to take Black Marsh, it would cost them many of their resources and some portions of the army of their alliance. In which they might lose. If they lose and takes up too many resource, the Kahjiit and the Bosmer would give up with the alliance and the Aldmeri Dominion Alliance will break apart. The Aldmeri Dominion aren't stupid to do this.

      Also Black Marsh must have their own resource. They pushed the Dremora into their own realm on their own. The Argonians must have heavy equipment to do this. Means, the Argonians/Black Marsh must be rich with resources. Also if you guys think that the Argonians fended off the Dremora because they're inside they're home, they pushed through till they were inside Oblivion. So, they MUST really have heavy equipment and probably good fighters. Their tactics is probably THAT good to fend them off. In which might be used for the Aldmeri Dominion. Also, invading them would be BAD. 

      If you will invade the Black Marsh, there must be something inside there that is so precious the Aldmeri Dominion wants it. In this case, the Ebonheart Pact might take advantage of this because the Aldmeri Dominion will need many resources to take down the Black Marsh and take the thing they want inside it. The Argonians and a little of the other pact will defend Black Marsh making it look like they really want to protect it and making it look like they are focusing on protecting the Black Marsh. While the other Pact will secretly prepare and invade the Aldmeri Dominion's alliances. Once the Aldmeri Dominion that is invading Black Marsh learns about this, it might be too late.

      But, like I said, the Aldmeri Dominion isn't stupid. But still, I think Argonians would win.

      Also the Ebonheart Pact might just win this war. My own opinion though.

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    • 112.209.155.0 wrote:

      Also the Ebonheart Pact might just win this war. My own opinion though.

      i totally agree brother, though we need to "Brace for Impact.............!!!!"

      (Aldmeri & Daggerfall lovers is coming.......)

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    • Hbxn wrote:
      112.209.155.0 wrote:
      Also the Ebonheart Pact might just win this war. My own opinion though.
      i totally agree brother, though we need to "Brace for Impact.............!!!!"

      (Aldmeri & Daggerfall lovers is coming.......)

      Haha good thing someone agrees with me :D

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    • Lex4570 wrote: What kind of conquest? Apart from the motivation, Argonians would not even have to fight Thalmor alone. The Empire would gladly join them. And Dunmers would forget all of their conflicts with Argonians only for a chance of beating their yellow-faced kin. The situation in Tamriel will result in Summerset fighting against everybody.

      Hey, and let's not forget the Nords. They'd go to war with the Thalmor, with or without any allies. The way I visualize it is the Bosmer and Khajit ultimately tiring of Altmer oppression and breaking off, and the Thalmor still being arrogant enough to think they can conquer Tamriel, with the result that they get torn to pieces by everyone else. Bear in mind, the modern Thalmor are nothing like Queen Ayrenne's Dominion. They are high elf supremacists who would like nothing better than to enslave all other races, including the other elves. I actually go through scenarios in my head on occasion that involve the Thalmor going "Alright, we're gonna win, we don't need the Bosmer any more" and trying to wipe out the wood elves of burn down Valenwood or something, provoking the rest of Tamriel. The Thalmor will never conquer Black Marsh. They will try, they will fail, and they will bring about their own destruction.

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    • Somebody Stole My Sweetroll wrote: It's not in the Dominion's interests to even try to conquer Black Marsh.  Even assuming that they somehow succeeded, they'd have to leave all their troops there in order to keep control, never mind forcing the Argonians to do anything useful.  They'll have much more luck with economic warfare.

      Identify those things which the Argonian society needs or badly wants, and is not able to produce within its own borders.  Metal comes to mind (try mining in a swamp!).  Then launch targeted strikes at those non-Dominion nations which border Black Marsh, specifically aimed to remove their ability to produce those commodities.  The Argonians must then choose whether to do without these products (which will progressively weaken them for a later invasion), or buy from the Dominion on terms which strongly favour the Thalmor.

      The end result is that the Argonians are either weakened to the point where they are no longer a threat, or else forced to do whatever the Thalmor demand in order to maintain necessary trade.  The Argonians really have nothing to bargain with other than their obedience, since it's doubtful that the Dominion depends on anything which is available only from Black Marsh.

      Alternatively, use Argonian traitors or mercenaries to provoke Cyrodiil or Morrowind into invading the Marsh.

      Not a bad argument, but there's one simple problem. Black Marsh already has everything it needs. It has never depended on trade with foreigners. Usually, when an argonian is involved in economic transaction, it is as the merchandise (as in slaves of the dunmer). The argonians could be completely cut off economically from the rest of Tamriel and it would not harm them.

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    • I think it's been pretty well established that the Thalmor would never ever conquer Black Marsh.

      That doesn't mean they wouldn't be arrogant enough to try.

      Remember, they believe themselvees to be the rightful rulers of Tamriel. That includes Black Marsh. They would try, if only to say that they did something Tiber Septim couldn't.

      And they would suffer the annihilation they so richly deserve.

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    • Some Argonian Named Kesch wrote: It's either that or "Last Crusade".

      It's Lost Ark.

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    • 74.186.125.13 wrote:
      I think it's been pretty well established that the Thalmor would never ever conquer Black Marsh.

      That doesn't mean they wouldn't be arrogant enough to try.

      Remember, they believe themselvees to be the rightful rulers of Tamriel. That includes Black Marsh. They would try, if only to say that they did something Tiber Septim couldn't.

      And they would suffer the annihilation they so richly deserve.

      yup, if they go in there they would problably be eaten by a Crocozilla.

      LOL

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    • NeoScival wrote: I think we should take into account the fact that Argonians have, on multiple occasions, gone to fight people on their home turf and every time the Argonians do so , they completely demolish them. I mean destroying tons of Dremora in Oblivion, I think thats a good enough point to say that the Aldmeri Dominion wouldn't be able to beat the Argonians if they were to fight somewhere other than Argonia. I bet the Argonians could defeat, if not, do tons of damage if they were to go to Vallenwood and fight.

      Not to mention the time the argonians sacked Morrowind. In all honesty, the Argonians likely could have conquered all of Tamriel at any time. They just didn't feel like doing so.

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    • 74.186.125.13 wrote:                                                                                                       the Argonians likely could have conquered all of Tamriel at any time. 

      i also think that they could, plus i've had enough with Man Emperors..... i don't really want Elf to be one either, but i think  we need a beast one for once. So I would love to see the Argonians rule the Imperial City and create an Argonian Dynasty. That would be wickedly awesome !!?

      but i believe that others will find this to be Exaggerating.

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    • 74.186.125.13 wrote:

      NeoScival wrote: I think we should take into account the fact that Argonians have, on multiple occasions, gone to fight people on their home turf and every time the Argonians do so , they completely demolish them. I mean destroying tons of Dremora in Oblivion, I think thats a good enough point to say that the Aldmeri Dominion wouldn't be able to beat the Argonians if they were to fight somewhere other than Argonia. I bet the Argonians could defeat, if not, do tons of damage if they were to go to Vallenwood and fight.

      Not to mention the time the argonians sacked Morrowind. In all honesty, the Argonians likely could have conquered all of Tamriel at any time. They just didn't feel like doing so.

      They only succesfully sacked Morrowind after Morrowind got virtually wiped out by Umbriel, and the eruption of Red Mountain. 

      Remember though that all throughout history those two races have been fighting one another. They had an uprising and they managed success against Morrowind at one point yes. But that was House Dres (1 in 5 Dunmer Great Houses) vs Argonians. And they only really won because the other houses saw the potential to stop Dres' influence in Morrowind if they got defeated by the Argonians.

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    • They would just burn it all down so yeah the Aldmeri would win in the end, basically destroying the homeland and most of the Argonians living in it. I believe they also out number the Argonians by far.

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    • 138.210.193.201 wrote:
      They would just burn it all down so yeah the Aldmeri would win in the end, basically destroying the homeland and most of the Argonians living in it. I believe they also out number the Argonians by far.

      Magic or not, cant burn down a swamp.

      The flames wouldn't take and the fire cant be sustained.

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    • 138.210.193.201 wrote:
      They would just burn it all down so yeah the Aldmeri would win in the end, basically destroying the homeland and most of the Argonians living in it. I believe they also out number the Argonians by far.

      No, they don't outnumber the Argonians.

      Accepted lore is that Elves have a long lifespan balanced by a very low reproductive rate. Not only is the number of Altmer less, they cannot make up losses the way the relatively fecund Argonians can.

      The Altmer would lose a war of attrition; the geography of Black Marsh would ensure that that would happen.

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    • Races that are fighting in their home province have a huge advantage. The Nords have their mountains(a MASSIVE ADVANTAGE) Khajiit and Bosmer have their maze jungles and forrests, which they only know their way around them(also, being at an elevated position is a good tactic) and of course, argonians have their swamps, argonians can easily swim in their swamps and breath underwater, any army that attacked would be taken down with geurilla( dont know how to spell that!) tactics.

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    • All but one comment after my last post has said that the Argonians would win. But there seems to be a little bit of conflict over the Aldmeri Dominion even trying. I assure you the dominion would most definitely try to conquer Black Marsh in the future, the only way they wouldn't is if they were defeated before they got the chance.

      People have been saying that the Black Marsh has no minerals or gems, unless I missed something saxheel/argonians are some of the greatest crafters in all of Tamriel, most renown is their ability to craft jewelry. The rings and necklaces they make are well known all across Tamriel. They must have the recourses there to make them in Black Marsh.

      Also, don't quote me on this but I believe slavery was banned all across Tamriel but even so, I cannot think of any Altmer that isn't so full of themselves to not believe they can enslave whomever they want (especially beast folk). I mean look at how they treat the apemen of Summerset Isle. They would much rather be arrogant and think that nobody will care about them enslaving some argonians.

      Finally , for my last point, in the eyes of the altmer they are the master race and all shall worship them so they would definitely try to take over Black Marsh as part of their conquest to conquer all of Tamriel.

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    • If they were to attempt an invasion of Blackmarsh it would most likely be the last place they try to take over, once they have the power and resources from the rest of tamriel in their pockets.

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    • Pink Slim wrote: If they were to attempt an invasion of Blackmarsh it would most likely be the last place they try to take over, once they have the power and resources from the rest of tamriel in their pockets.

      I agree, they would have plenty of trouble if they try to do anything before controlling the rest of Tamriel. But even after they control everywhere else I still believe they would fail in conquering all of Argonia.

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    • A war of attrition would surely end up weakening the Dominion to the point the other conqured peoples would see their chance and revolt. R.I.P. Dominion!

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    • The only way is to destroy or twist the Hist with some kind of magic. From this, they would trick the Argonians to their liking by either having them join the Dominion like the Khajiit did, or to sabotage the Argonian defenses if & when they decide to attack.

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    • 75.75.80.173 wrote:
      The only way is to destroy or twist the Hist with some kind of magic. From this, they would trick the Argonians to their liking by either having them join the Dominion like the Khajiit did, or to sabotage the Argonian defenses if & when they decide to attack.

      Not quite true.

      There was that case of the strange trees from Oblivion that affected an Argonian who went to near them. (Mere-Glim).

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    • Timeoin wrote: Not quite true.

      There was that case of the strange trees from Oblivion that affected an Argonian who went to near them. (Mere-Glim).

      That makes sense. I did not think of that too much, but I should rephase in saying "conventional under positively normal conditions."


      So, if they could somehow find the possibly illusive plain of Oblivion, fight crazed Argonians, & somehow take something like those trees, it might work.

      Or if they go to the Hist realm & damage or destroy some aspects, then that works too.

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    • The reason I put in the "crazed Argonians" part, is because they might know of this wekness [ahead of time] .

      Fighting them in Oblivion is still more equal then in Black Marsh though.

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    • The Argonians are at ah advantage here there is no denying that, but alot of people are ignoring the fact that the Argonians secritive nature is another one of there Major advantages. Due to there unwillingness to share much about their homeland other then its a Marsh and its deadly no one actuallly is sure what really lurks within the depths of Black Marsh other then the Argonians themselves, For all we know the Marsh could have a huge armoury of natural defences such as Unkown animals, uncurable Diseases, heck, there could be some sort of Godzilla like monster lying in wait for the Hist to call upon it to help defend its home.

      And even if the AD did manged to conquer Black Marsh there is no denying they would be heavily weakened and would be easy prey for the Nords, Empire or Redgaurds. And if TES lore has taught us one thing about the Argonians it that they are the type to hold grudges, deep long grudges that often ends with an Argonian warband masscuring entire towns and sacking cities that belong to the ones that hold the grudge against.

      In short if the AD ever tried to conquer Black Marsh it WILL end in there downfall.

        

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    • Of course the Argonians could be like a 3rd world dictatorship (can we say Saddam Hussein?), that encourages the perception that they have some kind of "secret" super weapon to deter would be attackers. There may be nothing more to Black Marsh than lots and lots of fever-ridden, bug-infested wetlands...as if that wasn't enough.

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    • Black Marsh has a secret weapon. It's called the Hist Hivemind. Remember what happened in the Oblivion Crisis? The Hist called almost every Argonian back to Black Marsh, commanded them to fight against the Daedra, and the next thing that happened was that Dagon had to close the Oblivion Gates in Black Marsh because Argonians were literally storming the Deadlands.

      The Hist would do the same thing if the AD would try to invade Black Marsh.

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      Black Marsh has a secret weapon. It's called the Hist Hivemind. Remember what happened in the Oblivion Crisis? The Hist called almost every Argonian back to Black Marsh, commanded them to fight against the Daedra, and the next thing that happened was that Dagon had to close the Oblivion Gates in Black Marsh because Argonians were literally storming the Deadlands.

      The Hist would do the same thing if the AD would try to invade Black Marsh.

      You forget, though, that the Hive Mind can be corrupted by enemies, if they are so inclined. (The Novels mess with headcanon, but they still ARE canon. At least, I think they are supposed to be? They mention a tonne of stuff that happened prior to Skyrim, anyways).

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    • but in said novels the argonians themselves allowed for a single hist tree to be corrupted. though this isn't the only way it could be corrupted, it is the only way it can be purposefully corrupted [as far as we know].

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    • I think that last bit is the real issue here - its impossible to know if there's more ways. The inhabitants of Nirn likely know more - but we sure as heck don't.

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    • Don't forget that the Thalmor have the entire Imperial army at their disposal as well. The Argonians could be trapped on both sides by the Imperials to the north and an Aldmeri Dominion blockade to the south.

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    • Also, in regard to my previous comment, the Imperials could convince the Dunmer to assist with the promise of more Argonian slaves, and the Rdguards could be pressed. All of the provinces hate the thalmor, but the Empire would bind them all to the same pact. Focusing the entire Empire on the Argonians would give the Thalmor a perfect opportunity to take the throne.

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    • It doesn't matter, the Argonians have an overwhelming home turf advantage due to their waterbreathing ability and resistance to the diseases in Black marsh. Diseases were the most important reason that the European powers had so much trouble with holding on to colonies in tropical areas. In the 19th century, the average life expectancy of an European in the tropics (except for Oceana -Tahiti, etc.), was about 6 months.

      Before anyone tries to say that healing spells and potions could solve this, the lore records that the Knahaten Flu killed anyone not of reptillian blood, period. No mention is made of successful intervention with healing spells or potions. There is also speculation that it was created by an Argonian shaman. If true, there is the possibility that more devastating diseases could be cooked up to help defend Black Marsh.

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    • If you disregard the resistance to disease, could the AD possibly have a chance if they cut down an entire region of hist trees? I know that's highly unlikely, but I'm just throwing it in for the sake of argument.

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    • the daedra of dagon were forced to close their oblivion gates in blackmarsh so yeah the dominion will be dominated

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    • 66.142.210.224 wrote:
      Also, in regard to my previous comment, the Imperials could convince the Dunmer to assist with the promise of more Argonian slaves, and the Rdguards could be pressed. All of the provinces hate the thalmor, but the Empire would bind them all to the same pact. Focusing the entire Empire on the Argonians would give the Thalmor a perfect opportunity to take the throne.

      First of all, the thalmor doesn't control the empire, the only reason the empire follows the AD's demands are because they want to survive, they're not going to enter a war against the Argonians for no reason of their own, Nor would they be able to convince the redguards to help them attack the argonians, the empire has terrible relations with hammerfell and they're not going to get any better, and the redguards would much rather attack the AD or the Empire while they're busy fighting the argonians; the aldmeri dominion might be able to convince the dunmer to fight the argonians, but that's all they might get.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      66.142.210.224 wrote:
      Also, in regard to my previous comment, the Imperials could convince the Dunmer to assist with the promise of more Argonian slaves, and the Rdguards could be pressed. All of the provinces hate the thalmor, but the Empire would bind them all to the same pact. Focusing the entire Empire on the Argonians would give the Thalmor a perfect opportunity to take the throne.
      First of all, the thalmor doesn't control the empire, the only reason the empire follows the AD's demands are because they want to survive, they're not going to enter a war against the Argonians for no reason of their own, Nor would they be able to convince the redguards to help them attack the argonians, the empire has terrible relations with hammerfell and they're not going to get any better, and the redguards would much rather attack the AD or the Empire while they're busy fighting the argonians; the aldmeri dominion might be able to convince the dunmer to fight the argonians, but that's all they might get.

      Actually - I dont think the Redguards want to fight the Empire (even if they ARE distracted).

      They might absolutely DETEST the Empire - but they hate the AD even more. (Since, being human, they are treated as lesser beings by the Thalmor).

      And sure, the Dunmer might be convinced to fight. The Argonians pretty much destroyed their homeland. But at most, they would be fighting as mercenaries, since, their homeland is destroyed, and they are living effectively as refugees in Skyrim, or living in Solstheim. In terms of a war - their influence would be negligable due to the limited numbers left or the limited numbers left that could actually fight in a war. (Most are struggling to survive).

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    • the thalmor wouldnt be able to get close to the cities of blackmarsh because if they tried to burn the trees to remove argonian hiding places, the moist swamp areas would make the flames useless, and if they advanced, the argonians wouldn't need to do anything because of desease and the treacherous terrian.

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    • Timeoin wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      66.142.210.224 wrote:
      Also, in regard to my previous comment, the Imperials could convince the Dunmer to assist with the promise of more Argonian slaves, and the Rdguards could be pressed. All of the provinces hate the thalmor, but the Empire would bind them all to the same pact. Focusing the entire Empire on the Argonians would give the Thalmor a perfect opportunity to take the throne.
      First of all, the thalmor doesn't control the empire, the only reason the empire follows the AD's demands are because they want to survive, they're not going to enter a war against the Argonians for no reason of their own, Nor would they be able to convince the redguards to help them attack the argonians, the empire has terrible relations with hammerfell and they're not going to get any better, and the redguards would much rather attack the AD or the Empire while they're busy fighting the argonians; the aldmeri dominion might be able to convince the dunmer to fight the argonians, but that's all they might get.
      Actually - I dont think the Redguards want to fight the Empire (even if they ARE distracted).

      They might absolutely DETEST the Empire - but they hate the AD even more. (Since, being human, they are treated as lesser beings by the Thalmor).

      And sure, the Dunmer might be convinced to fight. The Argonians pretty much destroyed their homeland. But at most, they would be fighting as mercenaries, since, their homeland is destroyed, and they are living effectively as refugees in Skyrim, or living in Solstheim. In terms of a war - their influence would be negligable due to the limited numbers left or the limited numbers left that could actually fight in a war. (Most are struggling to survive).

      I wouldn't expect hammerfell to attack the empire either, but they definitley would if they had to.

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    • Pink Slim wrote:

      Timeoin wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      66.142.210.224 wrote:
      Also, in regard to my previous comment, the Imperials could convince the Dunmer to assist with the promise of more Argonian slaves, and the Rdguards could be pressed. All of the provinces hate the thalmor, but the Empire would bind them all to the same pact. Focusing the entire Empire on the Argonians would give the Thalmor a perfect opportunity to take the throne.
      First of all, the thalmor doesn't control the empire, the only reason the empire follows the AD's demands are because they want to survive, they're not going to enter a war against the Argonians for no reason of their own, Nor would they be able to convince the redguards to help them attack the argonians, the empire has terrible relations with hammerfell and they're not going to get any better, and the redguards would much rather attack the AD or the Empire while they're busy fighting the argonians; the aldmeri dominion might be able to convince the dunmer to fight the argonians, but that's all they might get.
      Actually - I dont think the Redguards want to fight the Empire (even if they ARE distracted).

      They might absolutely DETEST the Empire - but they hate the AD even more. (Since, being human, they are treated as lesser beings by the Thalmor).

      And sure, the Dunmer might be convinced to fight. The Argonians pretty much destroyed their homeland. But at most, they would be fighting as mercenaries, since, their homeland is destroyed, and they are living effectively as refugees in Skyrim, or living in Solstheim. In terms of a war - their influence would be negligable due to the limited numbers left or the limited numbers left that could actually fight in a war. (Most are struggling to survive).

      I wouldn't expect hammerfell to attack the empire either, but they definitley would if they had to.

      Where would the Bretons stand in this?

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    • Deep down, the Thalmor probably consider Bretons as being even lower than the humans - a "mongrel" race. (Is there any mention of this in the Lore?)

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    • Argoniwin wrote:

      Pink Slim wrote:

      Timeoin wrote:
      Pink Slim wrote:
      66.142.210.224 wrote:
      Also, in regard to my previous comment, the Imperials could convince the Dunmer to assist with the promise of more Argonian slaves, and the Rdguards could be pressed. All of the provinces hate the thalmor, but the Empire would bind them all to the same pact. Focusing the entire Empire on the Argonians would give the Thalmor a perfect opportunity to take the throne.
      First of all, the thalmor doesn't control the empire, the only reason the empire follows the AD's demands are because they want to survive, they're not going to enter a war against the Argonians for no reason of their own, Nor would they be able to convince the redguards to help them attack the argonians, the empire has terrible relations with hammerfell and they're not going to get any better, and the redguards would much rather attack the AD or the Empire while they're busy fighting the argonians; the aldmeri dominion might be able to convince the dunmer to fight the argonians, but that's all they might get.
      Actually - I dont think the Redguards want to fight the Empire (even if they ARE distracted).

      They might absolutely DETEST the Empire - but they hate the AD even more. (Since, being human, they are treated as lesser beings by the Thalmor).

      And sure, the Dunmer might be convinced to fight. The Argonians pretty much destroyed their homeland. But at most, they would be fighting as mercenaries, since, their homeland is destroyed, and they are living effectively as refugees in Skyrim, or living in Solstheim. In terms of a war - their influence would be negligable due to the limited numbers left or the limited numbers left that could actually fight in a war. (Most are struggling to survive).

      I wouldn't expect hammerfell to attack the empire either, but they definitley would if they had to.
      Where would the Bretons stand in this?

      Presumably in High Rock :P

      And it's an interesting dilemma. Remember, though, that 20 years before the events of Skyrim, the Empire (Imperial, Nord AND Bretons) fought to kit the Aldmeri Dominion out of Hammerfell. (Source: "The Great War"). That didnt end up working so well in the end. They'd probably try and stay neutral if they could.

      (Spanner in the works: The Orsimer. Numerically not great, but significant enough to be a constant threat to the whole region).

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    • Invading Black Marsh will not work, nbeither will economic warfare. If you try to take their minerals, all they need is Hist Sap and you stand no chance agaisnt them. Embargo them? Try to economically cripple them and see how you like it when they trade with with the Nords, or the Imperials, or Bretons, or even the Dunmer or even less likely, the Orsimer. Neither warfare nor economics work.

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    • Regarding embargoing - exactly! If you embargo them, then they might get annoyed and no longer take you up onto the Tamrielic Space Station.

      ... I might have confused that with something else.

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    • Ironically, it seems that the fact that the Thalmor has some of the best tacticians and wizards is severely underestimated.

      Why would the Thalmor just go into Black Marsh without having at least basic intelligence?

      They would probably decide to not burn it down, but FREEZE Black Marsh with an army of Frost Artronachs and summoned beasts.  They have ways.

      They would know at least something of the terrain & probably would use Khajiit as scouts.  What might interest them could be rumors of a Great Tower, some mystical Hist, & the resources.

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    • 75.75.80.173 wrote:
      Ironically, it seems that the fact that the Thalmor has some of the best tacticians and wizards is severely underestimated.

      And Mehrunes Dagon didn't? He had all the magical powers of a Daedric Prince, his many minions, plus the Mythic Dawn, and the Argonians kicked him out of Black Marsh and even invaded his realm.

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    • 75.75.80.173 wrote:
      Ironically, it seems that the fact that the Thalmor has some of the best tacticians and wizards is severely underestimated.

      Why would the Thalmor just go into Black Marsh without having at least basic intelligence?

      They would probably decide to not burn it down, but FREEZE Black Marsh with an army of Frost Artronachs and summoned beasts.  They have ways.

      They would know at least something of the terrain & probably would use Khajiit as scouts.  What might interest them could be rumors of a Great Tower, some mystical Hist, & the resources.

      I doubt that freezing it down could actually work. The Hist "live" in Black Marsh... not even actual gods, such as Vivec, know what the hell they are and what their goal is. They're extremely powerful, and I doubt that the Thalmor have any kind of interest in a swamp.

      Also, Khajiit could never survive in the inner swamps of Black Marsh.

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      75.75.80.173 wrote:
      Ironically, it seems that the fact that the Thalmor has some of the best tacticians and wizards is severely underestimated.

      Why would the Thalmor just go into Black Marsh without having at least basic intelligence?

      They would probably decide to not burn it down, but FREEZE Black Marsh with an army of Frost Artronachs and summoned beasts.  They have ways.

      They would know at least something of the terrain & probably would use Khajiit as scouts.  What might interest them could be rumors of a Great Tower, some mystical Hist, & the resources.

      I doubt that freezing it down could actually work. The Hist "live" in Black Marsh... not even actual gods, such as Vivec, know what the hell they are and what their goal is. They're extremely powerful, and I doubt that the Thalmor have any kind of interest in a swamp.

      Also, Khajiit could never survive in the inner swamps of Black Marsh.

      Regarding your assumption that the Thalmor wouldn't have any interest in a swamp.
      You might be surprised

      (And if you HAVEN'T seen the movie that is from, then get out, you uncultured swine! :P)

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    • Too bad Bethesda didn't put more Monty Pythonesque humor into the Elder Scrolls...(maybe because it wouldn't be understood/appreciated by many younger gamers).

      And yes, we have a collection of Monty Python DVD's.

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    • I would like to point out at this time that my display picture is Sir Cadwell, if you look carefully ;) Or at least... the guy that plays him. 

      Yeah, it would have been awesome if they did, but too much - and it would be Goat Simulator. A fun game, but... after half an hour, you're done with it.

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    • Timeoin wrote: I would like to point out at this time that my display picture is Sir Cadwell, if you look carefully ;) Or at least... the guy that plays him. 

      Yeah, it would have been awesome if they did, but too much - and it would be Goat Simulator. A fun game, but... after half an hour, you're done with it.

      Skyrim is a fun game, but after countless hours of walking, doing the main questline, completing every Daedric quest, quicksaving and killing Nazeem, FUS RO DAHing goats off of mountains, doing the civil war, DLCs, shutting Heimskr up, doing fetch quests, becoming OP, becoming the leader of every faction, and making Tamriel's biggest sweetroll collection, you're done with it.

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    • I forgot about killing Thalmor

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    • Timeoin wrote:
      I would like to point out at this time that my display picture is Sir Cadwell, if you look carefully ;)

      you mean... The Enchanter named... Tim.

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    • Argoniwin wrote:
      I forgot about killing Thalmor

      Has the Dragonborn learnd how to ride and control dragons? Can they be used in precision aerial attacks? We think not.

      If Skyrim is played on a PC, implementing some immersion mods like SkyRe, Realistic Needs and Diseases, etc. especially with fast travel disabled, makes for a entirely new experience. And then there's the mods like Falskaar...

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    • Pink Slim wrote:
      Timeoin wrote:
      I would like to point out at this time that my display picture is Sir Cadwell, if you look carefully ;)
      you mean... The Enchanter named... Tim.

      Exactly! If Talos is actually a Time Lord, then Tim the Enchanter is a younger version of Sir Cadwell. Don't ask me how, I don't exactly KNOW :P

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:

      I doubt that freezing it down could actually work. The Hist "live" in Black Marsh... not even actual gods, such as Vivec, know what the hell they are and what their goal is. They're extremely powerful, and I doubt that the Thalmor have any kind of interest in a swamp.

      Also, Khajiit could never survive in the inner swamps of Black Marsh.

      While it is clear that Argonia is a treacherous place, it is not impossible for the Thalmor to collect intelligence on Black Marsh.

       They might have decieved  [ or used magic on ]  a small population of Argonians into telling them valuable information.

      Also, Khajiit from the jungles of Elsweyr might be related to the Lilmolith, and could theoretically have access to more of the inner swamps than any other race besides Argonians.

      Lastly, who ever said that the Khajiit or any other spy needs to get into the inner swamps for espionage in the first place?

       Hist grow allover and expert spies could attempt to decipher Jel, study native societies, and gain some knowledge of the land from their network.

      Do not underestimate the Thalmor, whom had a hand in the creation of the An Xileel  ( though it did backfire I guess ) .

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    • Something we should say is that most argonian wars are fought defensively, but this is probably a choice. The argonians could probably take over all of tamriel, but what woudl be the point. They are probably some of the best tactitions (spelled wrong), because they know when to attack.They attacked morrowind when it was weak, and with good prep time demolished oblivion. back on topic, the freezing mentioned by 75.75.80.173 would also likely be a valid option by the thalmor, should they do it right. Finally, all of the unknown in black marsh and the precedents set would, at the very least stop permanent control, or a full invasion.

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    • The only thing the AD has to do is send a legion of vampires to blackmarsh,The posion and disease problem whould be solved and the war whould be more equal .

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    • Vog12 wrote:
      The only thing the AD has to do is send a legion of vampires to blackmarsh,The posion and disease problem whould be solved and the war whould be more equal .

      the only thing the Argonians have to do is to answer the call of The Hist, lick theyr magical drug and go berserker,  annhilating al lvampire until  The Hist says " ok guys it is enough now".
        

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    • AzuraKnight
      AzuraKnight removed this reply because:
      All caps.
      13:30, August 21, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • In my opinion, the Dominion has no need to capture Black Marsh.  That is if the Dominions goal is to topple the towers and cause the landfall.  From what I know there aren't any towers in black marsh, unless the Hist are a tower somehow, and the Argonians their stone.  Also even if the Dominion wanted to capture the whole of Black Marsh, they would have little to no chance in my opinion.

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    • If the Aldmeri Dominion went into Argonia, they'd be in muck to their necks before you could say "watch your step, idiot!"

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    • Anyone who has read the Argonian Account books already knows that.

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    • Perhaps they could. After all, the Dominion is well known for having an incredibely powerful military force. I really have no clue.

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    • Dapoculos13 wrote: Perhaps they could. After all, the Dominion is well known for having an incredibely powerful military force. I really have no clue.

      Actually the Aldmeri Dominion's armies are still severely weakened from The Great War. Due to Elves slow reproduction cycle it takes awhile. Do not be fooled, the Dominion is not a big threat for it's armies, it's a threat because of it's ideas and ambitions :P

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Actually the Aldmeri Dominion's armies are still severely weakened from The Great War. Due to Elves slow reproduction cycle it takes awhile. Do not be fooled, the Dominion is not a big threat for it's armies, it's a threat...

      Surely they could recieve reinforcements from the Khajiit and Bosmer, no?

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    • Now? No, they would be strecthed too thin to take on Black Marsh. If they beat and conquered the Empire and waited about 50 years or so for internal strife to wittle down and build up a large, massive army, Yeah they would totally crush Black Marsh, there is no doubt about that

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    • JillKill87 wrote: Now? No, they would be strecthed too thin to take on Black Marsh. If they beat and conquered the Empire and waited about 50 years or so for internal strife to wittle down and build up a large, massive army, Yeah they would totally crush Black Marsh, there is no doubt about that

      And how exactly would they do that? The inner swamps in Black Marsh are super hard to get into to if one is not an Argonian. Freaking Tiber Septim nor the Daedra could even do it, how do a couple of snooty Elves get in???

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    • I agree with the above post. While the Aldmeri Dominion could certainly take the outer borders of Black Marsh, taking the interior of the swamps would be next to impossible. Even the likes of Tiber Septim himself knew better than to send his men on a suicide mission that was doomed for failure. I know it may sound like I'm exxagerating with what I'm about to say, but I don't even think the Numidium could conquer Black Marsh.

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      And how exactly would they do that? The inner swamps in Black Marsh are super hard to get into to if one is not an Argonian. Freaking Tiber Septim nor the Daedra could even do it, how do a couple of snooty Elves get in???

      If Mehrunes Dagon led the charge and took care of the rest of the provinces first, he would have utterly crushed the Argonians, no question there, they were sent into a bloodlust by the Hist but its impossible that they could keep that up forever, eventually, if martin was killed in this hypothetical, the Daedra would have won, its not like Tamriel would be enslaved save black marsh lol. If you have the entire planet taken one providence won't hold up.

      And a couple of Snooty elves? you mean an Elven army that man handled the Imperials, Hammerfall and sacked the Captial before BARELY being defeated and is made up of the most powerful magic using race on Tamriel as well as having the Best Archers at their backs? They can probly do quite a bit of damage

      Also the Thalmor (or maybe it was just rogue mages) once caused almost a whole generation of Argonians to be disconnected from the Hist, if they did it before they could do it again. Thing is, with Tiber, he didn't go to that length to conquer them, Its possible he was stretched too thin, I mean he didn't even conquer Morrowind but won it over via treaties, its possible he saw how pointless it was to take an inner swamp, Tiber was reasonable. However the Thalmor are not, as judging by the above, the Thalmor wouldn't put genocide off the table. Im sure if they really wanted inner Argonia, they would have no problem killing off majority of the Argonians with a magically crafted virus that effects only Argonians or something like that, to take it...

      I think, however, they would probly settle for the outlying regions though, like the Legion did tbh.

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    • JillKill87 wrote:
      If Mehrunes Dagon led the charge and took care of the rest of the provinces first, he would have utterly crushed the Argonians, no question there, they were sent into a bloodlust by the Hist but its impossible that they could keep...

      The Bosmer and the Khajiit don't fight for the Dominion, so that is wrong, second of all you've leaving out how the Empire and Hammerfell (as well as Skyrim and High Rock) retaliated and nearly wiped out all of their armies, causing them to a stand-still which they are still weakened by to this day. That is why they need the Empire to do their bidding for them, because without that the Dominion is just small army and snooty elves. You're also forgetting Hammerfell single-handedly held them off. Case closed.

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    • I have no doubt the Dominion could conquer the outer fringes of Black Marsh just as Tiber Septim did. But what would they want with the inner swamps, even if they could conquer them (which is highly unlikely)? Only thing there is swamps, diseases-ridden insects, and venemous/dangerous animals. There's nothing of value, which is why Black Marsh's inner swamps have never been conquered. Ever. 

      Imagine moving an army through that. Disease and venemous creatures/plants all around you. There are no roads, and you're constantly wet. Weapons and armor begin to rust. And at all times, all around you in the water, an entire army of Argonians could be just beneath the surface, breathing underwater. You can be attacked at any second, and the natives can then dive back under and be gone in a flash.

      It's also a logistical nightmare to hold the swamps, even the outer fringes. There are no roads, they need to be built, and even when they are they need to be replaced every few years because they sink into the marshes over time.

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    • Like Jimee, and Zipper, and others pointed out, there's basically no chance the Altmer could manage to take just a part of Black Marsh. But I'd like to see those ridiculous self-important elves try - maybe in the next game? :>

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      The Bosmer and the Khajiit don't fight for the Dominion, so that is wrong, second of all you've leaving out how the Empire and Hammerfell (as well as Skyrim and High Rock) retaliated and nearly wiped out all of their armies, causing them to a stand-still which they are still weakened by to this day. That is why they need the Empire to do their bidding for them, because without that the Dominion is just small army and snooty elves. You're also forgetting Hammerfell single-handedly held them off. Case closed.

      lol Your statements are compltely biased calling them "snooty elves" all the time lol. 

      Also, Your history is wrong, yes they do have Khajiit and Wood Elves, if not then those "stuck up elves" are much more formidable for it by being a small Island nation and taking on both the Empire AND Hammerfall. They also had to have a large force in reserve otherwise if they were beaten to nothing than they wouldn;t have forced all the terms for the WHite-Gold treaty lol. and yeah Hammerfall beat them...again as they waged a two sided war against both nations lol, thats like calling German SOldiers "pussys" in WW1 for holding both fronts, when in fact, it makes them much hardier troops.

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    • Ill repeate again, they disconnected a whole generation from the Hist, Imagine if they were hell bent on taking Black Marsh as it was the final province they needed to rule a unified Tamriel, im sure causing a magically induced genocide or virus wouldn't be beneath them....then all they would have to worry about is an empty swamp lol. 

      Argonia can be taken its just as the other user pointed out, there is no reason for anyone to take the inner swamp, there is no benifit to them, and with lack of roads and forts and all the diseases, it would be pointless to take it

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    • JillKill87 wrote:
      lol Your statements are compltely biased calling them "snooty elves" all the time lol. 

      Also, Your history is wrong, yes they do have Khajiit and Wood Elves, if not then those "stuck up elves" are much more formidable for it by being a small Island nation and taking on both the Empire AND Hammerfall. They also had to have a large force in reserve otherwise if they were beaten to nothing than they wouldn;t have forced all the terms for the WHite-Gold treaty lol. and yeah Hammerfall beat them...again as they waged a two sided war against both nations lol, thats like calling German SOldiers "pussys" in WW1 for holding both fronts, when in fact, it makes them much hardier troops.

      I'm afraid not, friend. The Bosmer and Khajiit do not fight for them, they are always called referred to as "Elves" in the Great War book. Those two races are simply treated as cattle to the Dominion, as shown in the Thalmor Embassy.

      As per your logic that the White-Gold Concordat is only being upheld by the Empire is false, with little evidence to support it, I recommend reading that book The Great War to see more about the Dominion's losses in the war by the same name, quite interesting. Did you ever wonder why the Empire received criticism for it's signing of the White-Gold Concordat? Was it because the Critics of the Empire wanted the Thalmor to destroy them all (unlikely). Or maybe is it because they were so close to a victory until the Emperor foolishly backed out and gave into everything the Elves wanted, simply for peace! Can you call what's currently going on in the Empire, with the Dominion's oppression "peace"?

      The Dominion would not be able to take Black Marsh, the outskirts maybe. But the inner-swamps are unbeatable, as I've explained not even Tiber Septim the conqueror of Tamriel or the freaking Daedric Forces could do it. Please cast aside your cherry-picking and realize the Dominion's is not actually all that powerful at all. Certainly not enough to take on something as powerful as the Black Marsh.

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    • More so, the Aldmeri Dominion has been severely weakened ever since losing a large amount of their forces during the Great War as well as ongoing conficts with Hammerfell shortly afterwards. They've lost huge numbers of Altmer, Bosmer, and Khajiit to the War and are in no shape to declare war against any province for at least a few decades until they can regain their strength by acquiring more troops. Currently, the Thalmor try to make it seem as if they're more powerful than ever, but if that were really true, then they would have a significantly stronger military presence across the whole of Tamriel. Attempting to conquer Black Marsh now would be nothing more than suicide.

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      I'm afraid not, friend. The Bosmer and Khajiit do not fight for them, they are always called referred to as "Elves" in the Great War book. Those two races are simply treated as cattle to the Dominion, as shown in the Thalmor Embassy...

      Cherry pick? lol so you mean to tell me the Dominion didn't beat the emprie and take their city while also engaging Hammerfall? thats all made up...talk about delusional.

      The EMperor wouldn't have given everything to the elves if he had a large chance at winning as you so wrongly think he did. Again if the Dominion had no reserves then there would be NOTHING stopping a Hammerfall/Imperial Alliance from taking the fight to them and ending them, stop making stuff up and siding with the Empire for the sake of siding with the empire and look at things with no bias. Dominion got their way because they had enough strength in reserve to force the EMperor's hand. saying "yeah well, they are lying they are not that strong" is simply Imperial Propaganda, Just like Thalmor have their own propaganda in books such as the Talos Mistake. From a military perspective you don't get your way with a treaty without having the upperhand, lies are not going to save you and have you get your way

      and "as powerful as black marsh?" lol they are not that strong in fact the only reason they pushed back the Daedra is because they had the ENTIRE population whipped into a frenzy, not because they had a great powerful army. In fact their Invasion was pushed back in Morrowind once Redoran mobilized the remaining forces of the Great Houses, and that was after they got hit hard by Daedra.... imagine if they tried to go up against the main Daedric army in Cyrodil lead by Dagon himself, they would be slaughtered. in fact im willing to bet they sustained heavy casulties considering they are not all warriors and had women, farmers, children, laberors, traders too, soooo much canon fodder. numbers and shock is why they won, that woudln't last forever though. against a professional standing army in the fields they would be routed pretty fast...

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    • JillKill87 wrote:
      Zippertrain85 wrote:
      I'm afraid not, friend. The Bosmer and Khajiit do not fight for them, they are always called referred to as "Elves" in the Great War book. Those two races are simply treated as cattle to the Dominion, as shown in the...
      Cherry pick? lol so you mean to tell me the Dominion didn't beat the emprie and take their city while also engaging Hammerfall? thats all made up...talk about delusional...

      you have made too many assumptions about the hist and the argonians, first of all when whas it ever stated anyplace that the entire population of argonians was put into a frenzy, you literaly made that up, not only did you make it up it just sounds stupid to begain with. The truth of that matter is that we have no idea how the An-Xileel pushed back the daedra invashion, we only know that the hist gave them warning that it was comming due to there conection and future seeing powers granted to the by i beleive there god sithis, if you read the lore you will find that the hist and the argonians by extention have a deep conection with sithis, this is why any argonian born under the star symbole of the shadow was trained as a shadow scale for the dark brotherhood, to be used by black marsh at a later date, tho i beleive the An-xileel stopped this practice some time during the decline of the dark brotherhood, tho thay still could be training them as assassin just not leting the DB use them due to there argonians only policy. now if the An-Xileel had fought the main force with the same ligistics given to them by the hist then i have no doubt the would have been able to push back and invade the oblivion planes just as they did in black marsha asforthere incvashion of morrowind, no the Great Houses were not able to push back the argonians much, and I do beleive two of them house Dres and house indoril, the two most invalved thn the slave trade, were all but completly annialated , and I beleve the southern portion as well as the eastern half of the province remains under Argonian, An-Xieel controle. The odea that the AD could make a viris that affects argonians only baffles me, seeing as the only ones that I know of that have used that tactic maybe are the argonians, then i think it would be much more likely to employ this strategy and if they both tryed it there is little dought the Argonian shamans could cook up a sickness that effects the Thalmor alot faster than the Thalmor could make something that effects the renowned argonian disease immune bodyes. In the end taking both factions as they currently are any Thalmor invaion of An-xileel territory would not last long, not only due to the fact of a home feild advantage, but also that the Thalmor would highly underestimate there opponent, due to there superiority complex and thinking of the argonians as unorganized beat folk who are less then them, despite the fact that they are  more then likely very well organized. In fact i not onlt see there invasion being a complet failer, I also think the An-Xileel backlash may put them in a war that could  jeopardize there stance ageinst the Empier, but that is only if the An-Xieel are as orginized as I think and that is an assumption, but if I'm right, and they are well organized, as well as use all the abilities of the hist to there advantige, I could see the backlash of the An-Xieel taking the form of an invashion of elsweyr framed as the two former slave races helping on another, If I'm right i could see the An-xieel winning that war establishing Elsweyr as a buffer zone to the AD as well as making the Thalmor look like a laughing stock to the empiren as they were just defeted by lizards, but thats only if my assumptions about how the An-xieel defeted the dadra, with ligistics and stratigy, and not your of they frenzyed every one and swarmed them with every last man women and child suffering major casulties. I'm betting mine seeing as black marsh in every sorce i have read was considered lass damaged then any of the other provinces, as well as was the FIRST province to secede from the empire after the oblivion crisis. I also must say that the Thalmor masterminding the Argonian secession is only a rumor, and seeing as the An-Xieel is an argonians only i highly doubt it. 

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    • Rukathesoldier wrote:
      UselessArgonianMage wrote:
      I don't even need to give my opinion.
      quiet lizard!
      • rises from marsh* Shut You lips all of us get to say what we say *dives back into marsh*
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    • Basicly Argonians we are the vetcongs every other race ok

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    • A FANDOM user
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