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  • I see where the Blades come from, but i think i would feel terrible if i kille Parth.

    If he was using the Dragonborn all along, why would he give his biggest weakness (Dragon-Rend) to essentially his enemy?

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    • Paarthurnax isn't using the Dragonborn, even the Blades don't think that. The Blades think he should be punished for what he had done, even if he has switched sides. I see what the Blades want, punishment should be due even if the guilty party has achieved redemption.

      Paarthurnax understands if you wish to kill him, as did Vivec when the Nerevarine confronted him about the fate of his past incarnate. He gave you Dragonrend to defeat Alduin, whether you use it against Paarthurnax is up to you, and even Paarthurnax himself understands this, even if the Greybeards do not.

      If you feel terrible about killing him, remember all the humans he enslaved during the Dragon's rule, this doesn't mean I agree with killing him though. He has certainly helped you and all of humanity by assisting you against Alduin. So, the reasons to kill him and keep him alive are pretty equal, do what you want.

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    • Paarthurnax turned from evil and became good through intense Meditation, he saw the error of his ways. He can be trusted.

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    • I let him live. He may have been a 'bad guy' at one point but, like Nait Nelthar said, he has reformed.

      Also I really don't like the ultimatum that the Blades give you, "Kill Paarthurnax or we won't help you anymore." It makes me feel like they are 'using' you to get what they want. I know they have valid reasons to be wary of him, he was Alduin's lieutenant and later turned on him; he could turn on the Dragonborn as well but I doubt he will.

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    • Yes, he does deserves to die especially if you're playing a righteous hero character!

      What is bettter, to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?!. TO BE BORN GOOD OFC!!!

      Justifying this idiot is like saying that what Hitler did was right. Paarthnuax or whatever you spell it has done serious dmg to people although not everyone remembers those atrocities as Esbern claimed that they do but Part was Alduin's right hand & there's no denying the fact about his crimes even Geezerbeards confirmed that.

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    • And let's face it...everyone is sparing him from his well-deserved fate just to spite Delphine who's b1tch in her own right. If on the other hand Delphine didn't act like some cow & bossed Dragonborn around & politely asked & then explained why he needs to die in a calm tone, many would said: Off with his head!

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    • Really? This thread is over three years old. There are plenty of newer threads on the same topic.

      109.92.154.185 wrote: What is bettter, to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?!. TO BE BORN GOOD OFC!!!

      You're right, it is better to be born good. But you're forgetting something: it takes more effort. There's nothing admirable about doing what comes naturally. It is worth respecting if you go against you nature and overcome the savagery that you once were.

      Justifying this idiot is like saying that what Hitler did was right. Paarthnuax or whatever you spell it has done serious dmg to people although not everyone remembers those atrocities as Esbern claimed that they do but Part was Alduin's right hand & there's no denying the fact about his crimes even Geezerbeards confirmed that.

      Oh please. That comparison doesn't hold up at all. Every other dragon did the same thing, and if they didn't, they were finished...end of story. Alduin is stronger than Paarthurnax, so he would have just killed him for his defiance. You want a good comparison? Look at the Statford Prison Experiment or the Stanley Milgrim Experiment. They justify that most of the low ranking nazis weren't actually to blame.

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    • I really fail to see why are you people getting so upset over character who isn't real by any chance & if somehow other opinion about him deserving to get executed will get in your savefiles. And you're forgetting that every normal person in real life wouldn't want to forgive someone for such atrocities like the ones he had done, so your counter-argument doesn't hold water. That's like saying let's just forgive anyone who has ever done serious harm to someone - case point Paarthunax! 

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    • Whatever, everyone are entitled to their opinion & choice about whether they will spare him or not. One players' choice doesn't affect other players' progress.

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    • Ottoman Hold
      Ottoman Hold removed this reply because:
      Provocation/off topic
      20:49, February 2, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Guys, don't you think this thread is a bit old to revive? It is just a little bit, three years old...

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    • 109.92.154.231 wrote:
      p.S. I don't care if this thread was created millenias ago if it was meant to be closed why aren't comments disabled then? You people & your damn ocd about old threads, everything might get as well DELETED after certain period of time because ocd!

      Right, let me make this clear to you. Threads are not closed after a certain time period, becasue eventually new information might be added, but this particular thread is just a guy asking about other people's opinions.

      If it was a thread about Paarthurnax' past and new information had yet to be added that would be another story entirely, but it's not.

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    • Nelthro wrote:

      109.92.154.231 wrote:
      p.S. I don't care if this thread was created millenias ago if it was meant to be closed why aren't comments disabled then? You people & your damn ocd about old threads, everything might get as well DELETED after certain period of time because ocd!

      Right, let me make this clear to you. Threads are not closed after a certain time period, becasue eventually new information might be added, but this particular thread is just a guy asking about other people's opinions.

      If it was a thread about Paarthurnax' past and new information had yet to be added that would be another story entirely, but it's not.

      Yeah...but if somehow i've previously said that i'm on team Paarthunax, not u or the person before u, would give me "warning" & "explanation" about old threads now would u? Hmph..ever predictable.

      Anyway, i don't expect that the two of u or anyone else for this matter to agree with my opinion but i do expect that u know that i have my own view of things & i don't "follow" general opinions or as u ppl call them "popular" opinions. I don't do sugar-coating.

      Since u're mildly offendedvabout some meaningless thread why don't u go & arrange for the comments to be permanently closed? Because u preaching here won't make them get disabled by itself.

      Bye!

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    • p.S. Paarthunax aka Hitlernaux DESERVES to die!!!

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    • I'm going to spare Paarthurnax because if he was still citing with Alduin then i would kill him but since he changed then ill spare him. Ppl have souls and even in the game dragons have souls so dragons change their ways like ppl change their ways. Why kill someone or kill dragons when they are trying to better themselves? I'm going to spare Paarthurnax, now hes a good dragon. Btw its not our place to judge anyone. The past is the past. You just have to forgive them and move on. Ive had alot of practice so it is easy for me to forgive ppl even if someone killed my whole family, ill forgive that person. Love you guys and God bless you!

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    • Guys,the problem about Paarthurnax which no one has talked about,is that when you said "The blades say you must die" Paarthurnax say something that is a little...suspicious let's say. "We were made to dominate,the will of power is in your blood" Ok you would just say that after this he changed and had controlled his "Savage nature" but then it come the problematic phrase: "No day goes by where I am not attempted to return in my inborn nature" And this phrase open a much bigger discussion. Think about it, Paarthurnax couldn't just dominate the world after auduin's banishment(Elderscroll) exactly because he knows his boss would come back. But he also know that a Dragonborn would appear to defeat him. So Paarthurnax just have to wait(Which really means nothing for an immortal being). So if you are the type who mistrust Paarthurnax you are more than right to think that on the day when the dragonborn dies(He's a mortal,cannot wait for the eternity just to see if Paarthurnax won't fail to resist his inborn nature) Paarthurnax would be a reeeeeeal problem,only one dovah left,the one who was Auduin's lieutenant and there is no dragonborn to stop him. If you like conspirational theories you can even think he created the way of the voice as a way to remove the voice's power from the humans so they cannot shout him down...This is my theory,I admitt that I haven't killed Paarthurnax yet because I really don't know what to do...Trust in a potential nuclear bomb,or kill it and blow up your conscience with a potential regret to have killed an nice dragon?

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    • My take on this is from the perspective of having no issue killing bad people like bandits, or even eating them as a werewolf. Also the civil war has some pretty evil people on both sides, so no way to make a good moral judgement there. They are both bad..lol.

      I am sure I won't be the last Dragonborn. Dragons came back, so did Dragonborn. So if Paarthumax is the new Lord of dragons, at least he won't be consuming souls or whatever. At worst he will just be a Dragon who will eat people he doesn't like. Kind of what my toon does.

      Morally wrong...perhaps. but there are vampires and all manner of evil, as well as werewolves. Each to their own. So long as no one single being takes over the lands, its all good in my books. Plus warriors would be better put to killing dragons and other beasts than each other. Seem plenty of dragons killed by guards without any help from me...lol.

      I am thinking i will install the mod that allows me to convince the blades that Paarthumax doesn't have to die :D

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    • 201.37.118.150 wrote:
      Guys,the problem about Paarthurnax which no one has talked about,is that when you said "The blades say you must die" Paarthurnax say something that is a little...suspicious let's say. "We were made to dominate,the will of power is in your blood" Ok you would just say that after this he changed and had controlled his "Savage nature" but then it come the problematic phrase: "No day goes by where I am not attempted to return in my inborn nature" And this phrase open a much bigger discussion. Think about it, Paarthurnax couldn't just dominate the world after auduin's banishment(Elderscroll) exactly because he knows his boss would come back. But he also know that a Dragonborn would appear to defeat him. So Paarthurnax just have to wait(Which really means nothing for an immortal being). So if you are the type who mistrust Paarthurnax you are more than right to think that on the day when the dragonborn dies(He's a mortal,cannot wait for the eternity just to see if Paarthurnax won't fail to resist his inborn nature) Paarthurnax would be a reeeeeeal problem,only one dovah left,the one who was Auduin's lieutenant and there is no dragonborn to stop him. If you like conspirational theories you can even think he created the way of the voice as a way to remove the voice's power from the humans so they cannot shout him down...This is my theory,I admitt that I haven't killed Paarthurnax yet because I really don't know what to do...Trust in a potential nuclear bomb,or kill it and blow up your conscience with a potential regret to have killed an nice dragon?

      All I have to ask about this comment is, what if the Dragonborn becomes a vampire?

      I'm just curious because, in my playthrough I hated on how the blades said that they always follow the dragonborn then tell me I have to kill a dragon that aided me in the final battle unlike the blades Parthurnax actually helped, and agian I'm just stating my opinion I'm not saying he shouldn't die I'm just saying I didn't kill him and said why.

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    • Spymaster Cosades
      Spymaster Cosades removed this reply because:
      doublepost
      17:01, December 13, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • The Atmorians came to Skyrim and killed off an entire race of people and left them so desperate they were forced into slavery. The Nedes did the same thing to the Ayleids. The Redguards did the same to the Sinistral Elves. Yet for some reason mankind considers these acts noble and heroic, their celebrated in song and great monuments are built to remember them. Arngeir is 100% correct - humans have absolutely no right whatsoever to pass judgment upon him.

      Nevermind the fact that if it hadn't been for Paarthurnax, mankind would STILL be slaves to the dragons. The Empire and the Blades wouldn't even exist! And this is that how he ought to be repaid? Seriously, there's just nothing you can say that will ever justify killing him.

      And the Hitler comparisons... really? Yeah, maybe if Hitler gave the allies weapons and info to stop nazi Germany and prevent the Holocaust from happening that might make sense, but otherwise it's complete rubbish. If anything he's like Gandhi - did and said some shitty stuff when he was younger, but ultimately benefited all of mankind in the long run.

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    • I partly agree with you, Tastefulnoodz

      On one hand, the Sinistral Elves were the ones who drove the redguards off Yokuda in the first place, and the Ayleids also enslaved the Nedes and the Argonians as did the Dunmer. The Ayleids in High Rock also warred against the Orcs who fled there. The Ayleids were no better than the Altmer except that they wanted to be a seperate kingdom.  The Nede's uprising with St. Alessia was perfectly justified as was the Nord's war with the Falmer because they attacked first, unprovoked to get the eye of magnus. Also the Ayeleids weren't forced into slavery, the Falmer were and that's only because the Dwemer are A-holes.

      Now, I have an unabashed bias for the Argonians and am being as neutral as I can, but the amount of subjugation of "the lesser races"  that the elves did was still not ok. When humans celebrate it they are justified because elves ( with the exception of the Bosmer ) have attacked first every time.

      As for paarthurnax, I think he should live because what he did gave them a choice to pass judgement, also the Blades are the ones who say that they won't help you if you don't do it. The greybeards previously had realized that as Dragonborn, you weren't a member of them whereas the blades, who say that they should serve the ultimate dragonslayer, seem to only want to use you.

      So in conclusion: Paarthurnax is a cool dude, Most of the elves were the aggressors which justified their subsequent defeats, the Blades see you as a soldier more than a hero, and argonians could be great if only given the chance.

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    • If we are talking about punishment and desert and the idea that punishment should be equal to the crime, then yes, Paarthurnax deserves to die. He has done wrong which cannot be restored and justice needs to be fulfilled. "Justice can be harsh, but it is still justice".

      However, you are Dragonborn. You have been given authority by the gods to decide what happens to Dragons and their fate. If you wish, you could pardon Paarthurnax and that would be the end of it. You then neglect justice because of your fondness of him and for him turning on Alduin. However, if you are playing as a rightieous character, then justice should be your highest virtue and you should execute him for his crimes.

      So, the choice is yours. Justice or pardon?

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    • Justice to a repentant and allied force who actually made a change for the benefit of humanity? What exactly is righteousness there? Pardon is well justified for what Paarthunax had done for humanity... for humanity without which would still be in woeful state without Paarthunax's betrayal against Alduin. Pardon is righteous in this case. The human concept of righteousness, justice, and pardon would not exist without Paarthunax. Killing Paarthunax is neither righteous nor just.

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    • Is Paarthurnax deserving of a death sentence?

      NO.

      As others have already stated, whatever crimes he committed approx. 4,000 years ago, he's already been atoning for them for a very long time.

      He betrayed Alduin by teaching mortals how to use the Thu'um, and took to following Jurgen Windcaller's (a human's) Way of the Voice teachings, which went against his inborne nature as a dovah. Plus, he directly aids the Last Dragonborn in their own tasks.

      The fact that ol' Paarthy has restricted himself to the skies of Monahven & nowhere else in Skyrim, watching over the Tiid Ahraan, is punishment enough for any past crimes. And the fact is that he made that decision himself.

      He is a danger to no-one.

      Plus, it just wouldn't sit right with me.  Especially after hearing a girl in Rorikstead claim she had a "dream" about a dragon who sounds very much like Paarthurnax.

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    • A FANDOM user  I didn't say that the wars humans fought with elves weren't justified, but just because they started the conflict doesnt excuse hunting them down to the last. That isn't war, that's genocide.

      The Atmorians tracked down the Falmer to Solstheim, their last free settlement. Trapped in the barren frozen Moesring, they were in no position to wage war or even defend themselves, and merely trying to survive. They were just being hunted down like animals at that point. Even the Snow Prince who stood up to them is considered more heroic by the humans. The Atmorians also slaughtered Dunmer and other elves who had nothing to do with the attack on Saarthal just out of blind prejudice.

      The Nedes rising up against slavery by the Ayleids is again justified, but not the genocide and forced relocation that occured after. In fact many Ayleids sided with the humans and lived in peace with them untill the Alessian Empire decided they had to suffer for what their ancestors had done and chased them all the way to High Rock in the Battle of Glenumbra Moors. The survivors, if their were any, either blended in with the bretons or the bosmer, but their culture and identity had been completely eradicated. Nothing honorable about that. And the orcs have literally warred with everybody, that's what they do.

      While we don't know the details about the various wars between the Left-Handed Elves and the Redguard, we do know they were driven from Yokunda (which was just as much their native continent as it was the Redguard) and prenumably died out or prehaps blended in with the Maomer. Still genocide. And again, like the Atmorians, when they reached Tamriel they took out their blind prejudice on every elf they came across, specifically the Corelanya, offering no chance for dipomacy.

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    • Paarth never deserved it, going against Alduin would mean certain death, and the lives saved from Paarth and Kyne teaching the nords of the Thu'um outweighed the unquantifable deaths at the hand of him, without Paarthunax, mortals would still be under rule of Alduin. Not to mention all dragons are inherently rulling, only through trial and error did Paarthunax find peace and the ability to empathize. 

      What is better ? to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort ?”

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    • If any dragon needs to be brought to "justice," it's Odahviing. He committed just as many attrocities as Paarthunax, and only became an ally to humanity at the very end because he had no other choice. Remember the dragon Numinex? He was trapped in Dragonsreach as well, and it drove him to insanity and death. I actually think the Blades want Paarthunax dead because he leads the Greybeards, who the Blades hate. Otherwise, they would probably order you to kill Odahviing and Durnehviir as well. 

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    • quite the thread. i never really killed parth (did one time then loaded). from time to time, i glance at the quest and feel bad but ever since i did it that first time i just go never again. i wish there was an option to just not kill him

      i love parth's reaction tho from what i remember (this was a while back) hes basically saying "ok the blades esbern and delphine can say what they want but not all deserve to die" like yes

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    • he's the King Greybeard... nuff said (unless ur a damn Blades supporter)

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    • He's been sitting on top of that mountain for thousands upon thousands of years with no dragon competition to get in his way. Sure, he's fighting against his "inner nature" but if he was going to do something, he would've. "But he did bad things when he was younger!" Sure. And you defacted right in your pants as a baby. What, did you not grow and learn not to do that? Should a person be held accountable for every awkward mistake they did when they were a child, but no longer do by choice? And let's be honest with ourselves, the Blades wanted him dead not because of his role in dragon dominance, but just for the sake of him being a dragon. Bit of a lazy reason, imo.

      He sat on that mountain for thousands of years, teaching people and not doing any harm. He can live, as far as my playthrough is concerned. The only good reason to kill him is if you're playing a psychokiller or blind zealot character in a roleplay run. And as for that guy screaming "righteousness" and "born good" all I can say...while this is just a fictional game, I would hate to meet such a hypcrite in the real world. Imagine that kind of mindless zealotry when it comes to real world matters.

      That being said, I do wish there was more to this quest, something to say "no" to the blades, or perhaps draw your weapons on them. What they're doing isn't different from what the dragons did, after all. Except this time, it's the Player Character in the role of Paarthunax as the line of defense.

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    • Im just going to add that it seems you do more for the blades than they ever do for you, they say they are there to help you against the dragons but so far it seems the only thing they do is give a blessing and a sword the former of which you have to return to them to renew every few days and does not seem to do much anyway, and while the sword is nice and all there are better weapons.

      as for what you do for them well off the top of my head, sneak into a thalmor embassy, get their head librarian out of hiding nearly dying to a ambush along the way, fight a bunch of forsworn to get the blades to their temple and base of operations, and im fairly certain a couple of other things that i just can't remember.

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    • Dovah are immortal, and by his own claim he constantly feels the urge to dominate  thousands of years are but a blink when you don't die (per Daedra statements)

      his actions were not alturistic, they were all self serving 

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    • As evil as he was in the past I agree with Arngeir when he says that "the Blades just want revenge". Sure he killed, enslaved, and the Nines knows what else because he was born evil, because his blood compels him to do so, because Alduin would have his head if he didn't obey, but what people fail to notice is: Is there ANYONE alive still suffering by what he did in the past? The truth is that he's more a savior of mankind than a villain.

      The guy helps you and the old heroes in defeating his own brother - and he do had feelings for his brother as we can see in the Epilogue - and averting the end of the entire world twice and you repay him and his students who were teaching to not use the Voice to kill by killing him? He even says that he'll try to teach the Way of the Voice to other dragons so perhaps they can overcome their inner evil.

      The Blades can throw their revenge at the Thalmor instead, as their actions are still fresh.

      No one can judge Paarthurnax, except the gods themselves.

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    • Since other's have posted on this old post, then I will too. As I believe my view to be quite different, I do not believe the Blades' motivation to be revenge. Though sometimes the veil between revenge and justice can be thin, and other times there can be no distinguishing between them. Personally I believe that as Shake-a-spear said, you must separate "The Doer from the Deed". Just as the sins of the deliberate murder of innocents cannot be washed from the hands, neither can time erase the memories of the deliberate actions of this monster. I choose the word monster because that is exactly what Paarthurnax is. It doesn't make a difference how much time passes, or whether he has committed atrocities since, Let me ask just one question to those still in doubt. The "Son-of-Sam" murderer from the NYC area of the mid 70s has been an outstanding person since his incarceration. Credited with mentoring many troubled people, becoming a devout Christian and dedicating his life to both staying in prison by refusing any parole hearings. As well as helping others in any way he can, there are glowing letters about the change of heart and mind he has had since incarceration. So my question is would you set him free OR trust him with a gun?

      I believe this is a valid question because Paarthurnax's gun is his voice, and his freedom is his wings on his back. Though he certainly isn't under the high doses of medication that David Berkowitz is probably on lol, I believe that in this case the sins of Paarthurnax greatly outweigh anything he can ever do to reclaim honor. Though I will admit I do not fully understand WHY he led a coup and began helping humanity, I do not believe it was out of honor, if someone could fill me in with details that would be dandy but my opinion still stands. Though I never said Paarthurnax deserved death,  I believe that the Blades are contradictory and choose and pick when exactly they want to apply justice at least in this one case. But we must remember that everything is like that, nothing is wholly blanketed when it comes to these sorts of things, they just aren't black and white, which is why we have these great discussions.

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    • Musashi357 wrote:
      Let me ask just one question to those still in doubt. The "Son-of-Sam" murderer from the NYC area of the mid 70s has been an outstanding person since his incarceration. Credited with mentoring many troubled people, becoming a devout Christian and dedicating his life to both staying in prison by refusing any parole hearings. As well as helping others in any way he can, there are glowing letters about the change of heart and mind he has had since incarceration. So my question is would you set him free OR trust him with a gun?

      You've pretty much just defeated your own argument by posing this question.

      Paarthurnax already has been in self-imposed exile & effectively jailing himself atop the Throat of the World for 4,000+ years.

      The problem with the Blades is more than just them distorting what "justice" is for their own convenience. It's the fact that they're making demands of an individual they're meant to serve, and not the other way around.

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    • Yeah sure, let's just kill one of the greatest allies that mortals have because of hurt feelings.

      Removing the last quite obviously crazed remains of the Blades is far more benifical for basically everyone.

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    • You people justify Paarthunax needs to die because he killed and enslaved people before but you have no shame killing bandits, massacring whiterun (I know you did), assassinating people, working with evil Daedric princes, stealing from guards (I know cause I've seen guards walking around naked), and the worst of all hitting the chicken. Don't try to justify Paarthunax evil acts while you are also doing evil acts.

      P.S. Hitting the chicken is a far more severe crime than enslaving whole humanity or even eating humans.

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    • I refuse to kill Paarthunax. Also, he atoned for his sins. Think about living where no one can get to you easily. Where no one could reach you, talk to you. In fact, he even says how he missed talking to people. Paarthunax has atoned for his sins by living in seclusion for thousands upon thousands of years.

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    • 122.52.147.236 wrote:
      You people justify Paarthunax needs to die because he killed and enslaved people before but you have no shame killing bandits, massacring whiterun (I know you did), assassinating people, working with evil Daedric princes, stealing from guards (I know cause I've seen guards walking around naked), and the worst of all hitting the chicken. Don't try to justify Paarthunax evil acts while you are also doing evil acts.

      P.S. Hitting the chicken is a far more severe crime than enslaving whole humanity or even eating humans.

      HOW can you be SO SURE that people have massacred whiterun? Did you ask the skyrim players whether they did this one by one, or is this some stuff you conjured from oblivion?


      And as for "guards being naked", is this ACTUALLY a part of the game? I don't see this happening. Unless perhaps you modded it. 

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    • Spirit Slasher wrote:
      And as for "guards being naked", is this ACTUALLY a part of the game? I don't see this happening. Unless perhaps you modded it.

      I believe the person is referencing the "Perfect Touch" perk under the Pickpocket Skill (at 100; requires investing in the "Misdirection" perk).

      Yes, it is possible to rob people [including the hold guards] of their clothing & armor.

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    • But do these people, if indeed they get robbed of their apparel, actually show up naked, or are their bodies pixelated? 


      If you understand what I mean

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    • Spirit Slasher wrote:
      But do these people, if indeed they get robbed of their apparel, actually show up naked, or are their bodies pixelated? 

      If by "naked", you mean still wearing their undergarments, then yes.

      ...So half-naked.

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    • lmfao

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    • well, since most countries in the world don't have a death penalty anymore. i guess this argument is based on where your from. my view hes already served hundreds of life sentances self imposed, could have done whatever he wanted to.

      i mean technically even in america someone with x amount of consecutive life sentances that got old enough could still get out of prison. as for the whole immortality means some things are a blink of a eye, i highly doubt that.. you still need basics. so i say the paarthunax question is never going to be solved. as some people are apparently born good and therefore would kill him instantly, and others are born bad and would therefore have these moral qualms.

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    • as for the time span on immortal or long lived beings not having the same feeling of time. i highly doubt that. if my dog kills the cat nextdoor when she is 2. shall i imprison her for say 12 yrs?

      and if my dragon puppy or whatever their called burns down the neighbours house i imprison it for 2k years?

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    • I love the ethical and moral turn this thread has taken (and forgive me for reviving it after 3 months, though that's much shorter than its' original Lazarus act) I've chosen not to kill Paarthurnax, partly because of the ultimatum Delphine offered me (she can shove it) but also because in the society I live in we believe in reformation through penance. We send people to prison for fixed terms for their crimes because we believe they can still have benefit to society and can atone for their crimes; or at least can be taught that their crimes were immoral and worthy of punishment.  I don't agree with the Nuremberg defense some people have applied to him as indeed the judges at Nuremberg rejected it. "I was following Alduin's orders" has never been tested in our courts (as far as I'm aware) but I imagine it would be similarly rejected. He had agency at the time and has had since. He's used that agency in the intervening years to repent and to aid in the ultimate destruction of his former leader. To me that makes him a redeemed character and not worthy of the sharp end of Dragonbane. In summary I have nothing new to add, I really just wanted to show my appreciation to a group of like-minded nerds who have debated the ethical dilemma of fictionally killing a fictional dragon for his fictional historical crimes. Well played Skyrim nerds. Well played.

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    • (and please forgive the block of text above ... I swear I put paragraphs in when I wrote it!)

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    • this is a pretty difficult question... does someone deserve to be punished for actions they have since repented for? what makes paarthunax unusual in this case is that he hasn't just regretted his actions, but truly understood where they came from. paarth himself says that as a dragon, he's naturally full of ambition and wants to rule. paarthunax is able to recognize this and understands that he probably wouldn't be able to live anywhere in Skyrim but in exile without slipping back into old habits. so he lives as a recluse at the top of a mountain, completely inaccessible to pretty much anyone who can't shout.  so paarthunax did awful things in the past, and it's in his nature to do awful things again in the future. but he's able to recognize this. he's able to see that his actions were wrong, and the circumstances that make him perpetually able to repeat his old crimes. so he actively chooses to not interact with any people other than the ones who would be able to keep him in check-- greybeards and Dragonborn(s), and apparently dragons too. paarth is already paying for his crimes in a way, by choosing to stay in a sort of prison designed for dragons.  but should we kill paarthy or not? should we kill him as punishment for his old crimes, to rid the world of the possibility of paarthunax giving in to his ambitions? or should we let him live, because he regrets his former actions and seems good now? this is more of a personal opinion on morality but pretty much every playthrouvh i consistently let him live.

      this is partially because he's a fun buddy dragon guy I mean I get to chat with a dragon 

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    • I think it is similar to deciding what to do with a former terrorist.

      This Terrorist Group, unlike in real world these guys have the technology and combined might of nato committing atrocities to everyone else.

      The former terrorist in question, was born and raised by the terrorist group who brain washed him like everyone else. But the former terrorist saw the errors of his ways, helped us by giving us the terrorist technology and weapons and fought alongside us.

      So now the question depends on whether you think he should die for the atrocities he committed in the past or he should be forgiven now that he saw error of his ways and since been on a path of redemption.

      1. He can be forgiven so he can keep suffering for his own sins from the past by continuing the path of redemption

      2. He should not be forgiven. Kill him for his crimes! Criminal scums don't deserve to live! Put him out of his misery. He suffered long enough, he don't deserve to suffer for his war crimes any further.

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    • Think simple, after I fullfully destined as Dragonborn, I kill him & The Blades because I dont want become heroes. I want as MOB(enemy) mean I not ether side(Empire, Stromcloack, Admeri Dominion, DarkBrotherhood). I don't want become Dragonborn again?! So in Dawnguard quest, I not using shout again?! Thats mean I broke oath as Dragonborn mean forever don't using shout again?!

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    • It is destiny that Paarthurnax dies. He is a son of Akatosh but follows the way of the voice wich honours kynareth it is therefor quite possible that Akatosh is enraged by his creation turning from him that he sends the dragonborn a message through the blades to kill what he sees as a traitor son.

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    • In terms of morality...

      Paarthurnax is said to have commited great atrocities as one of Alduin's lieutenants, and considering what Alduin did to Helgen, while nothing concrete is known, such atrocities could be horrendous, especially considering how even minor events can add up over time given the lifespans of dragons.

      However, it is because of Paarthurnax that the atrocities were stopped. Paathurnax was asked by the goddess Kyne to teach the Nords, and he lives on her sacred mountain. Had it not been for him, man would still be shackled under the boots of the dragons and their priests, and the dead would be many times more numerous following rebellion after failed rebellion. Kyne at the very least seems to have forgiven him. Paarthurnax is also the reason you, the dragonborn, can defeat Alduin, preventing him ending the world. For all purposes, that might aswell be the ultimate karma reset. Still, there are those that would reason that good deeds do not wash away bad deeds.

      Morals aisde...

      Paarthurnax is the ultimate teacher of the way of the voice, and so far has kept the Greybeards sitting atop their mountain. He is by his nature, a threat to all of Tamriel, but being a potential threat is different from a guaranteed threat. That he assists the dragonborn, and has stayed atop his mountain for so many years, proves that he is still pursueing his goals of meditation and atonement. Its not Paarthurnax I'm worried about, but the Greybeards.

      Organizations rarely maintain their founding cause because each generation strays from its founding purpose. This can be both good and bad; For instance, the Companions went from genocidal warbands to a group of honorable warriors who accept the worthy from all races. However, they also turned to lycanthropy and Hircine. The Greybeards have at their disposal one of the most dangerous weapons in all of Tamriel, and they've kept it secure and under responsible care. I feel far more relaxed knowing that a dragon keeps the Greybeards in check and true to their cause, instead of restarting the First Nord Empire or blowing up cities for elderly crazed laughs.

      Personally, I lean towards keeping Paarthurnax alive. Not just because my moral compass points to it, but also because I want something up on that mountain that guarantees the Greybeards dont stray from the path of Jurgen Windcaller.

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    • Fyreslight wrote:
      Personally, I lean towards keeping Paarthurnax alive. Not just because my moral compass points to it, but also because I want something up on that mountain that guarantees the Greybeards dont stray from the path of Jurgen Windcaller.

      Not to mention that Ulfric Stormcloak himself was originally training to be a Greybeard before the Great War.

      Obviously, he didn't finish his training, but he still knows enough about the Thu'um to put it to dangerously hypocritical use in Nordic politics.  Ulfric & his Stormcloaks are genuine threats to Skyrim's security, and must be put down, by the Imperials or by the Greybeards themselves if need be.

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    • 110.138.15.145 wrote:
      Think simple, after I fullfully destined as Dragonborn, I kill him & The Blades because I dont want become heroes. I want as MOB(enemy) mean I not ether side(Empire, Stromcloack, Admeri Dominion, DarkBrotherhood). I don't want become Dragonborn again?! So in Dawnguard quest, I not using shout again?! Thats mean I broke oath as Dragonborn mean forever don't using shout again?!

      What even is this sentence. 

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    • A FANDOM user
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