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  • In the book Five Songs of King Wulfharth lies this excerpt of Wulfharth asking the armies he amassed who they believe Shor really is and what his war means.

    "They were close to desertion. Then Wulfharth said: "Don't you see where you really are? Don't you know who Shor really is? Don't you know what this war is?" And they looked from the King to the God to the Devils and Orcs, and some knew, really knew, and they are the ones that stayed."

    This may be one of my favorite quotes out of any of the TES books. As you don't really get to know what Wulfharth means when he asks the question "Don't you know who Shor really is?", but whatever it is, he is telling the truth as Shor is with him during this moment. Of course I can easily speculate on what he means but it is still just speculation. The quote is quite mysterious, but the greatest thing about the quote is that Wulfharth convinces Orcs and Chimer to join him in his army by saying it.

    My question for you guys is, what do you think Wulfharth is saying when he asks "Don't you see where you really are? Don't you know who Shor really is? Don't you know what this war is?"?

    EDIT:

    I know who Shor is, that is not the point of this thread. Look at my first comment to see the point

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    • Shor= the Nordic aspect of Lorkhan. Read the monomyth for more info. Also reffered as Shezzar (Imperials), Lorkhan (all elves, and kahjiit), Sheor (Bretons). He is called the missing God, Notice the Emty throne labeled, Shor's Throne when you go to sovenguard. He is considered the God of the underworld to the Nords.  And sovenguard is his realm in Atherius.

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    • 24.229.172.102 wrote:
      Shor= the Nordic aspect of Lorkhan. Read the monomyth for more info. Also reffered as Shezzar (Imperials), Lorkhan (all elves, and kahjiit), Sheor (Bretons). He is called the missing God, Notice the Emty throne labeled, Shor's Throne when you go to sovenguard. He is considered the God of the underworld to the Nords.  And sovenguard is his realm in Atherius.

      I know who Shor is, this isn't my point at all. My point is what do you think Wulfharth means when he says "Don't you know who Shor really is", it is obvious that there is some hidden meaning behind those words as Wulfharth convinces enemies of Shor to join him by saying that. Obviously I wouldn't be quoting Five Songs of King Wulfharth if I didn't know who Shor was.

      I have an idea on what it means but this thread is purely for others speculation.

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    • I think Shor is someone who make mistake, a big mistake that brings the creation of something who some think terrible which is a "Live", but it seems if that he regreted his mistake, and now as the true God of all Men, he's willing to help Men by anyway he can.

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    • Hbxn wrote:
      I think Shor is someone who make mistake, a big mistake that brings the creation of something who some think terrible which is a "Live", but it seems if that he regreted his mistake, and now as the true God of all Men, he's willing to help Men by anyway he can.

      Hmmm... What exactly do you mean? What do you think his mistake was?

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Hbxn wrote:
      I think Shor is someone who make mistake, a big mistake that brings the creation of something who some think terrible which is a "Live", but it seems if that he regreted his mistake, and now as the true God of all Men, he's willing to help Men by anyway he can.
      Hmmm... What exactly do you mean? What do you think his mistake was?

      aaaah tricking his fellow friends

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    • Hbxn wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Hbxn wrote:
      I think Shor is someone who make mistake, a big mistake that brings the creation of something who some think terrible which is a "Live", but it seems if that he regreted his mistake, and now as the true God of all Men, he's willing to help Men by anyway he can.
      Hmmm... What exactly do you mean? What do you think his mistake was?
      aaaah tricking his fellow friends

      But Lorkhan knew what he was doing and I doubt he regrets it.

      "And this is the most-reached destination of all that embark upon this road. Why would Lorkhan and his (unwitting?) agents sabotage their experiments with the Tower? Why would he crumble that which he esteems?

      Perhaps he failed so you might know how not to."

      -Vehk's Teachings

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:                                                                                                But Lorkhan knew what he was doing and I doubt he regrets it.


      "And this is the most-reached destination of all that embark upon this road. Why would Lorkhan and his (unwitting?) agents sabotage their experiments with the Tower? Why would he crumble that which he esteems?



      Perhaps he failed so you might know how not to."



      -Vehk's Teachings



      what i meant is that he regret that he betrayed his fellow Aedras, because he got himself a heart ripped as the result for his action.


      Lorkhan may not view his action to create the world as a mistake, but i as a person view it as one and so did the other Aedras.

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    • Hbxn wrote:

      Dovahsebrom wrote:                                                                                                But Lorkhan knew what he was doing and I doubt he regrets it.


      "And this is the most-reached destination of all that embark upon this road. Why would Lorkhan and his (unwitting?) agents sabotage their experiments with the Tower? Why would he crumble that which he esteems? Perhaps he failed so you might know how not to." -Vehk's Teachings

      what i meant is that he regret that he betrayed his fellow Aedras, because he got himself a heart ripped as the result for his action.


      Lorkhan may not view his action to create the world as a mistake, but i as a person view it as one and so did the other Aedras.

      I'm pretty sure he martyred himself.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      Hbxn wrote:


      Dovahsebrom wrote:                                                                                                But Lorkhan knew what he was doing and I doubt he regrets it.




      "And this is the most-reached destination of all that embark upon this road. Why would Lorkhan and his (unwitting?) agents sabotage their experiments with the Tower? Why would he crumble that which he esteems? Perhaps he failed so you might know how not to." -Vehk's Teachings



      what i meant is that he regret that he betrayed his fellow Aedras, because he got himself a heart ripped as the result for his action.




      Lorkhan may not view his action to create the world as a mistake, but i as a person view it as one and so did the other Aedras.



      I'm pretty sure he martyred himself.



      Of course i can respect your oppinion, though it's still controvert with mine.

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    • Hbxn wrote:

      Dovahsebrom wrote:

      Hbxn wrote:


      Dovahsebrom wrote:                                                                                                But Lorkhan knew what he was doing and I doubt he regrets it. "And this is the most-reached destination of all that embark upon this road. Why would Lorkhan and his (unwitting?) agents sabotage their experiments with the Tower? Why would he crumble that which he esteems?


      Perhaps he failed so you might know how not to."


      -Vehk's Teachings

      what i meant is that he regret that he betrayed his fellow Aedras, because he got himself a heart ripped as the result for his action.

      Lorkhan may not view his action to create the world as a mistake, but i as a person view it as one and so did the other Aedras.

      I'm pretty sure he martyred himself.

      Of course i can respect your oppinion, though it's still controvert with mine.

      Mundus was a failed atempt at CHIM purposely organized by Lorkhan. So that others know how to not fail CHIM.

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    • I've never really peiced this together, if Shor is Lorkhan, how is Shor still around?

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      Mundus was a failed atempt at CHIM purposely organized by Lorkhan. So that others know how to not fail CHIM.

      But if there was no Mundus, what would Lorkhan use CHIM on? Maybe its the other way around?

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    • Flamedude22 wrote:

      I've never really peiced this together, if Shor is Lorkhan, how is Shor still around?


      Though Lorkhan is said to be dead.


      but No soul in the Universe that can be destroyed......


      They can go either to the realms of Oblivion, Aethirius, the Void, or even stays on Nirn


       

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    • But wouldn't an Aedra die differently then a human, because from how you described it, for an Aedra it's not like they're dead at all.

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    • Aedra can die, Daedra cannot.

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    • EmperorJohnson wrote:
      Aedra can die, Daedra cannot.

      I know, but I'm saying Aedra's definition of death must be different then a mortal's death.

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    • Shor and Shezarr have characteristics that complement themselves but seem to differ heavily from others beliefs of Lorkhan. This has led me to believe that Shor and Shezarr are not exactly aspects of Lorkhan but kind of avatars instead.

      More of a Padomay/Sithis relation than a Kyne/Kynareth relation if you understand what I mean.

      I feel like the same applies to Auri-el and his aspects Alduin and Akatosh.

      This would make sense as Lorkhan and Auri-el are the same being but different.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Shor and Shezarr have characteristics that complement themselves but seem to differ heavily from others beliefs of Lorkhan. This has led me to believe that Shor and Shezarr are not exactly aspects of Lorkhan but kind of avatars instead.

      More of a Padomay/Sithis relation than a Kyne/Kynareth relation if you understand what I mean.

      I feel like the same applies to Auri-el and his aspects Alduin and Akatosh.

      This would make sense as Lorkhan and Auri-el are the same being but different.

      Lorkhan/Auri-El are still separate beings, each with their own minds and stuff. It's like Tiber Septim, Ysmir and Zurin Arctus, each was their own separate person, with their own ideals, beliefs, actions and personalities, but they are all part of the oversoul of Talos.

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    • Nazul Rostello wrote:
      Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Shor and Shezarr have characteristics that complement themselves but seem to differ heavily from others beliefs of Lorkhan. This has led me to believe that Shor and Shezarr are not exactly aspects of Lorkhan but kind of avatars instead.

      More of a Padomay/Sithis relation than a Kyne/Kynareth relation if you understand what I mean.

      I feel like the same applies to Auri-el and his aspects Alduin and Akatosh.

      This would make sense as Lorkhan and Auri-el are the same being but different.

      Lorkhan/Auri-El are still separate beings, each with their own minds and stuff. It's like Tiber Septim, Ysmir and Zurin Arctus, each was their own separate person, with their own ideals, beliefs, actions and personalities, but they are all part of the oversoul of Talos.

      "This would make sense as Lorkhan and Auri-el are the same being but different."

      -Me

      Lorkhan and Auri-El are twins, such as Anu and Padomay are twins, and Anui-El and Sithis are twins.

      Each are two sides of the same coin.

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    • Was not lorkhan torn asunder before being cast into nirn? could he not have become shor at that point? Parhaps rather than death, He was made to transition. Did he not lead the young race of men to battle to reclaim his heart? Perhaps on having his heart taken from him, lorkhan became shor, and sought to reclaim his heart.

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    • 71.11.164.168 wrote:
      Was not lorkhan torn asunder before being cast into nirn? could he not have become shor at that point? Parhaps rather than death, He was made to transition. Did he not lead the young race of men to battle to reclaim his heart? Perhaps on having his heart taken from him, lorkhan became shor, and sought to reclaim his heart.

      Shor is a piece of Lorkhan, not Lorkhan himself.

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    • That is Kirkbrides version and according to Kirkbride there is no canon except for the canon you wish to have. Shor could easily be a piece of Lorkahn or could be what lorkahn changed in to or could be an imposter. You don't know, no one does. Only the people (Bethesda and Zenimax) who own the intellectual property rights could actually say for certain and they aren't going to. It makes for better sales if they leave it all "up to your own head cannon"

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    • Zephrim wrote:
      That is Kirkbrides version and according to Kirkbride there is no canon except for the canon you wish to have. Shor could easily be a piece of Lorkahn or could be what lorkahn changed in to or could be an imposter. You don't know, no one does. Only the people (Bethesda and Zenimax) who own the intellectual property rights could actually say for certain and they aren't going to. It makes for better sales if they leave it all "up to your own head cannon"

      Let's not make this thread become a canon discussion, ok?

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    • To answer my own question, I just came across this;

      "Then Wulfharth said: "Don't you see where you really are? Don't you know who Shor really is? Don't you know what this war is?" And they looked from the King to the God to the Devils and Orcs, and some knew, really knew, and they are the ones that stayed."

      What did they really know?

      "They were inside the Dragon Break of the Red Moment."
      -MK Q-A

      Finally I actually know what this awesome quote means!

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    • maybe shor IS lorkhan or whats left of him

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    • 92.96.27.218 wrote:
      maybe shor IS lorkhan or whats left of him

      That wasn't the point of this thread. Who Shor is, is an obvious question (yes, he is the Nordic Lorkhan).

      The point of the thread was to find out the meaning behind the quote

      "Then Wulfharth said: "Don't you see where you really are? Don't you know who Shor really is? Don't you know what this war is?" And they looked from the King to the God to the Devils and Orcs, and some knew, really knew, and they are the ones that stayed."

      (Which I've had to explain twice now -_-)

      Also I already answered my own question months ago

      Please refrain from thread necromancy next time.

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    • my hypothesis is that he is meaning that shor and lorkhan are the same being, and that it is about reclaiming his heart and bringing him back to "life". lastly is that the war is about men and mer which are the decendents of the gods mer= aeadra and men=lorkhan. with the mer attempting to undue creation and men trying to preserve it.

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    • Shor = Lorkhan is the spirit in the hearts of the races of men (except perhaps the Reguards).

      "Don't you know who Shor really is?"

      Shor is you. This is the battle for your own hearts.

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    • 118.210.187.67 wrote:
      Shor = Lorkhan is the spirit in the hearts of the races of men (except perhaps the Reguards).

      "Don't you know who Shor really is?"

      Shor is you. This is the battle for your own hearts.

      My apologies for "thread necromancy", but I just want to say.... Wow, that's deep.  May be truth.

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