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  • Why do loads of people hate Mer, Altmer may be bad but why so much hatred for Bosmer and Dunmer (Bosmer the best)???

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    • Becasue they can stab you to death with their deadly chins?

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    • Racist Nord...

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    • They exist?

      They walk around claiming to be decendants of the divine when they are no moreso than any other Race etc etc.


      I could go on, but there's really no need.

      Everything they do serve only to antagonize the other Races.

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    • I like Mer...

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    • I think people mostly hate the Altmer. My problem is with any racist be they Altmer or Nord. However I will say the Nords (Men) have not taken to becoming Nazi's as the Altmer (Mer) have.

      I love the Dunmer for some reason lol! Bosmer and Orismer are alright, but I'm more a mage type of player and I can cast spells to make me a better stealthy type or warrior type when I so choose.

      But yeah lol anytime I find a Thalmor with a name such as Ancano, Estormo, Rulindil, etc I always soul trap their asses so they can suffer forever in the Soul Cairn!

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    • 74.184.197.28 wrote:

      But yeah lol anytime I find a Thalmor with a name such as Ancano, Estormo, Rulindil, etc I always soul trap their asses so they can suffer forever in the Soul Cairn!

      Ondolemar too?

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    • Altmer- Bad

      Bosmer- EPIC!

      Dunmer- Cool

      Orc- Badass but ugly

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    • thing is i loe the down troden and mis interpreted races such as the beast races and the dunmer...and for this reason i dont really like men as they are what they are always.

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    • Only the Thalmor are bad 

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    • Most Altmer are not bad. Faralda, Nirya, the three (?) of them in Windhelm, and so on. I doubt that many of them even care about the Talos thing.

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    • So?

      It's naturally in a sentient beings nature to feel better than others, some aspire above that sort of thought though thankfully :)

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    • Coppermantis wrote:
      Most Altmer are not bad. Faralda, Nirya, the three (?) of them in Windhelm, and so on. I doubt that many of them even care about the Talos thing.

      It's the other way around.

      Most are bad and need to go in order to safeguard Nirn/Mundus continued existance, so they are like Alduin.

      Yourr examples are to miniscule exceptions

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    • Prove it. Show me a substantial number of altmer outside the Aldmeri dominion who display arrogant or otherwise undesirable characteristics. 

      It's just that in Skyrim there are obviously not that many elves who come of their own accord, so we mostly see Thalmor justiciars. Ergo, most of the altmer we encounter will be "bad."


      Also, some Altmer in Skyrim even profess disdain for the Thalmor. So there's that. 

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    • The Altmer are not bad if anything they just made a bad choice in chosing the Thalmor as there leaders When they were in a depression. It would be like saying that all germans are bad because of Hitler. Yes I hate the Thalmor and kill everyone of them I see but I still like the Altmer and like to play as one.

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    • Coppermantis wrote:
      Prove it. Show me a substantial number of altmer outside the Aldmeri dominion who display arrogant or otherwise undesirable characteristics. 

      It's just that in Skyrim there are obviously not that many elves who come of their own accord, so we mostly see Thalmor justiciars. Ergo, most of the altmer we encounter will be "bad."


      Also, some Altmer in Skyrim even profess disdain for the Thalmor. So there's that. 

      Don't the majority of the Altmer in Mundus live within the AD?

      And can therefore to a degree be assumed to at least largely agree with the Thalmor on Talos and by extention humanity?


      I doubt I have any named examples you don't already know of.

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    • I love how everyone things that ALL mer are bad just because the THALMOR are racist.

      No, not all Altmer are racist. It's the Thalmor that are racist. Remember the Altmer alchemist in Windhelm? He isn't racist at all.

      And the Dunmer have the coolest culture in Tamriel, soo...

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    • 89.245.206.255 wrote:
      I love how everyone things that ALL mer are bad just because the THALMOR are racist.

      No, not all Altmer are racist. It's the Thalmor that are racist. Remember the Altmer alchemist in Windhelm? He isn't racist at all.

      And the Dunmer have the coolest culture in Tamriel, soo...

      Well, my attitude towards Mer was founded in Oblivion and then reinforced by reading up on lore.

      'Course the Thalmor situation doesn't help them look good.

      Sure, there will always be exceptions and they are just swell.


      Dunmer culture is built on the countless broken backs of abused slaves, so forgive me for not finding coolness in that.

      Though there are somewhat "cool" elements hiding in there if one looks past the suffering that made it possible.

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    • I love elves. Otherwise, I wouldn't be playing with a Dunmer.

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    • Altmer and their superiority complex.

      Bosmer created the Wild Hunt beasts.

      Dunmer enslaved the Argonians.

      Dwemer enslaved the Snow Elves.

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    • 80.216.217.27 wrote:
      89.245.206.255 wrote:
      I love how everyone things that ALL mer are bad just because the THALMOR are racist.

      No, not all Altmer are racist. It's the Thalmor that are racist. Remember the Altmer alchemist in Windhelm? He isn't racist at all.

      And the Dunmer have the coolest culture in Tamriel, soo...

      Well, my attitude towards Mer was founded in Oblivion and then reinforced by reading up on lore.

      'Course the Thalmor situation doesn't help them look good.

      Sure, there will always be exceptions and they are just swell.


      Dunmer culture is built on the countless broken backs of abused slaves, so forgive me for not finding coolness in that.

      Though there are somewhat "cool" elements hiding in there if one looks past the suffering that made it possible.

      + the three immortal gods who pwned Tiber until he used his giant pet robot, Nerevar and the Nerevarine who pwned three gods, Mushroom Towers, the Telvanni and almost everything else one can see in TES III: Morrowind

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    • it is common for a altmer to be seen as aragant by the mortal races because where a man may have studyed art for years and then sees an outstanding painting and calls it perfect a altmer may have studyed art for hundreds of years and will pick up on the smallest fault this is why they all ways seem so high and mighty its not arogance its perfection. ( if you would like more infomation on the subject watch shoodycast lore video on high elves)  

      as for the dummer there culture was built on slavery but whats done is done and i think the argonians spilt a fair amont of blood too make up for that when they invaded morrowind. 

      and finally i see nothing wrong with the bosmer even if they did join dominion what were they supossed to do but be forced in to it by the altmer.

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    • 74.184.197.28 wrote:
      My problem is with any racist be they Altmer or Nord. However I will say the Nords (Men) have not taken to becoming Nazi's as the Altmer (Mer) have.

      Well, that statement was racist as well. That's like saying Germans are all NAZI.

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    • I must say the altmer have gathered a bit of a repution for being racist but that should not be held against all mer.

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    • Goldflame33 wrote:
      74.184.197.28 wrote:
      My problem is with any racist be they Altmer or Nord. However I will say the Nords (Men) have not taken to becoming Nazi's as the Altmer (Mer) have.
      Well, that statement was racist as well. That's like saying Germans are all NAZI.

      Woah, stop with the bad history! 

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    • I've always been an altmer because there the best. even when your not a mahe in the soon coming Elder scrolls online they are even better, with the best pact name to I should add.

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    • Personally I love the elves, moreso the Altmer. Sure the Thalmor are bad, but not the entire race. They are pretty much a game version of Nazi's. Nazi's were bad, but not all Germans, they are just doing what they were told. Same principle applies here.


      And I agree Altmer can be arrogant, they kind of should be allowed to have that. Someone earlier said it, they live vastly longer lives than humans. They are perfectionist as well. Say there is one Nord smith that "perfected" the trade for 50 years, an Altmer could have done so for 100+ years. So of course the Altmer would look down on the Nord, since they had a lot more time and experience, they could see their flaws. Good example would be Eurlond Grey Mane, he is pretty much the best smith in Skyrim, an old smith over in Summerset Isle may think he is but an apprentice. So while it does get annoying, they deserve to act like that. The Thalmor just take that idea to a way larger level.


      As for the other Mer. The Dunmer aren't really bad, sure they did slavery and yada yada, but who didn't in the past? Even the mighty Tiber Septim more or less forced you to join him without choice, or killed you. They are looked down on in Skyrim since the Stormcloaks are just looking for things to be mad at. I won't get into a debate over this but the Stormcloaks are racist, and more or less little more than barbarians. With Ulfric being power hungrey. Sure they might have good intentions, but the ulterier motives ruin it, not to mention they would be pretty much digging thier own graves. The Dunmer are just minding their own buisness, they got enough to worry about, that will Morrowind being in turmoil.


      Orcs have always been outcast, that will never change. Personally I dislike the orcs because of their culture. They are true barbarians. Only the strongest is allowed to mate. You have to kill the strongest to become the strongest, if it is family, they will happily do it. I find it sick they would happily kill their own brother or father just to rule til their son or brother kills them.


      The only reason people hate the Altmer so badly is because the game shows them being evil almost all the time. You could do that with any race and people would resent them. Come the next TES if it isn't focused on the Thalmor, people won't even hate them anymore most likely.

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    • 72.238.141.241 wrote:
      Personally I love the elves, moreso the Altmer. Sure the Thalmor are bad, but not the entire race. They are pretty much a game version of Nazi's. Nazi's were bad, but not all Germans, they are just doing what they were told. Same principle applies here.


      And I agree Altmer can be arrogant, they kind of should be allowed to have that. Someone earlier said it, they live vastly longer lives than humans. They are perfectionist as well. Say there is one Nord smith that "perfected" the trade for 50 years, an Altmer could have done so for 100+ years. So of course the Altmer would look down on the Nord, since they had a lot more time and experience, they could see their flaws. Good example would be Eurlond Grey Mane, he is pretty much the best smith in Skyrim, an old smith over in Summerset Isle may think he is but an apprentice. So while it does get annoying, they deserve to act like that. The Thalmor just take that idea to a way larger level.


      As for the other Mer. The Dunmer aren't really bad, sure they did slavery and yada yada, but who didn't in the past? Even the mighty Tiber Septim more or less forced you to join him without choice, or killed you. They are looked down on in Skyrim since the Stormcloaks are just looking for things to be mad at. I won't get into a debate over this but the Stormcloaks are racist, and more or less little more than barbarians. With Ulfric being power hungrey. Sure they might have good intentions, but the ulterier motives ruin it, not to mention they would be pretty much digging thier own graves. The Dunmer are just minding their own buisness, they got enough to worry about, that will Morrowind being in turmoil.


      Orcs have always been outcast, that will never change. Personally I dislike the orcs because of their culture. They are true barbarians. Only the strongest is allowed to mate. You have to kill the strongest to become the strongest, if it is family, they will happily do it. I find it sick they would happily kill their own brother or father just to rule til their son or brother kills them.


      The only reason people hate the Altmer so badly is because the game shows them being evil almost all the time. You could do that with any race and people would resent them. Come the next TES if it isn't focused on the Thalmor, people won't even hate them anymore most likely.

      i agree with everything you said but i dislike you attatude to orcs as orcs are not all barbarians they just need a visionery who will lead them out of the dark and into cizilation.

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    • Nelthro wrote:
      Becasue they can stab you to death with their deadly chins?


      Don't hate, the Altmer are the superior race, and after they conquer Nirn, they will spread to SPAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!!!!

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    • Krozyne wrote:
      Nelthro wrote:
      Becasue they can stab you to death with their deadly chins?

      Don't hate, the Altmer are the superior race, and after they conquer Nirn, they will spread to SPAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!!!!

      Yeah, right. They couldn't even stand against a full-scale Daedric Invasion of Nirn. The Daedra are the rulers of Mundus. And soon. We will make all men & mer learn their place as slaves to Molag Bal.

      As for Mer... I don't hate mer. They just have a massive superiority complex to me.

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    • HumbleDaedricServant wrote:
      Krozyne wrote:
      Nelthro wrote:
      Becasue they can stab you to death with their deadly chins?

      Don't hate, the Altmer are the superior race, and after they conquer Nirn, they will spread to SPAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!!!!
      Yeah, right. They couldn't even stand against a full-scale Daedric Invasion of Nirn. The Daedra are the rulers of Mundus. And soon. We will make all men & mer learn their place as slaves to Molag Bal.

      As for Mer... I don't hate mer. They just have a massive superiority complex to me.


      It's not their fault that they are superior.

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    • Not all Mer are bad, and certainly not all Altmer. It's the Thalmor who give the elves such a bad name, but there are friendly Altmer like the legate in Riften.

      Oh, and Dunmer ftw!

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    • Krozyne wrote:
      HumbleDaedricServant wrote:
      Krozyne wrote:
      Nelthro wrote:
      Becasue they can stab you to death with their deadly chins?

      Don't hate, the Altmer are the superior race, and after they conquer Nirn, they will spread to SPAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!!!!
      Yeah, right. They couldn't even stand against a full-scale Daedric Invasion of Nirn. The Daedra are the rulers of Mundus. And soon. We will make all men & mer learn their place as slaves to Molag Bal.
      As for Mer... I don't hate mer. They just have a massive superiority complex to me.

      It's not their fault that they are superior.

      That doesn't change the fact that they have a... tainted reputation. I'm still gonna genocide all man & mer though :-P

      Now. Back on topic.

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    • 80.216.217.27 wrote:
      Coppermantis wrote:
      Prove it. Show me a substantial number of altmer outside the Aldmeri dominion who display arrogant or otherwise undesirable characteristics. 

      It's just that in Skyrim there are obviously not that many elves who come of their own accord, so we mostly see Thalmor justiciars. Ergo, most of the altmer we encounter will be "bad."


      Also, some Altmer in Skyrim even profess disdain for the Thalmor. So there's that. 

      Don't the majority of the Altmer in Mundus live within the AD?

      And can therefore to a degree be assumed to at least largely agree with the Thalmor on Talos and by extention humanity?


      I doubt I have any named examples you don't already know of.

      No not really, that's like saying everyone in Windhelm to a degree agrees with those two nords who bully the dunmer woman when you first enter the city.

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    • Can I use console commands to render Rolff Stone-Fist unessential? I REEEEEALLY wanna kill that guy!

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    • Yes! You can set him unessential by doing the following:

      player.setessential (enter Rolff's ID here) 0

      Then, enjoy! :D

      You can find his ID by typing this in the console:

      help rolff

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    • Thanks, HDS!

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    • Your welcome Sonjavon :D

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    • Maybe a majority of Altmer live within the AD's territory, but that doesn't mean they agree with their politics. I live in the United States, but like many I know, I do not agree with many parts of our foreign policy or simply do not care about other parts.

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    • Is that so. Well... wrote:

      No not really, that's like saying everyone in Windhelm to a degree agrees with those two nords who bully the dunmer woman when you first enter the city.

      Its really not.

      False equivalence is the technical term.

      Have those two drunks ruled Windhelm for multiple centuries if not millenia?

      Shaped the populations opinion through propaganda etc?

      Thought not.

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    • 80.216.217.2 wrote:
      Is that so. Well... wrote:

      No not really, that's like saying everyone in Windhelm to a degree agrees with those two nords who bully the dunmer woman when you first enter the city.

      Its really not.

      False equivalence is the technical term.

      Have those two drunks ruled Windhelm for multiple centuries if not millenia?

      Shaped the populations opinion through propaganda etc?

      Thought not.

      Fine then, it's like saying every Imperial soldier is a quitter because Titus Mede II signed the White-Gold Concordant

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    • Everyone drop the bias and racism for one seond...

      Orcs are somewhat barbarians culturally but they actually enjoy the rush of battle. I'm not one for playing an Orc or even getting a follower Orc, but generally, they aren't that bad. They were mutated & changed and also follow a daedric lord (Malacath people). Do you really expect the followers of Malacath to be a peaceful and heavily magical? No. You don't. What's going to happen is he'll influence them to be untrusting, teach that only the strong survive or deserve power, and will make them generally violent. At least they're nice enough to defy tradition and let the dragonborn (and it can be assumed there are other acceptions as well, seeing as they don't give a flying fadoodle what kinda <Noun>born you are.

      Altmer, as it has been said, live longer. For example, a Nord and an Altmer are best friends and they live together on a small island. They have everything they need to do whatever they want and the island is big enough for both of them to build mansions. The Altmer will make a habit of study, practice, and will live far longer than his friend. A superiority complex or disdain for his friend will develope simply because the Nord is too limited, time elapsed for evolution/adaptation and lifespan alike, to be as good as the perfectionist Altmer who still gets a few hundred more years of life to make x5 the progress the Nord did or even more.

      Dunmer are... interesting, to say the least. Two quotes that tell of the origin would be, "The Dunmer were born from the ashes of the Battle of Red Mountain." and "Before that, they were the Chimer, a race of elves with skin like pale gold that followed the prophet Veloth to Resdayn (present-day Morrowind) seeking religious freedom." Now picture this. Every race is going to have slavery at some point. Whether now or in the future, it's on the path to evolution. Theirs just came a "little" early is all. You'd think that by now it'd be obvious that a past in/related to slavery can be overlooked seeing as chaotic as skyrim is/was presently/in-the-past. Native born Dunmer are known to look down on outlanders as well, so those thinking that Dunmer have a superiority to Altmer are sadly mistaken. This is the superiority complex that comes with intellect, incredibly long life, and magical prowess.

      Nords. I'm speaking from all of my experience with them and I apologize if something is a little off, I'm not too far in depth with Nordic history & lore yet. Nords are very... err... honor based, if you'll excuse lack for a better term. They are often (warning generalization that could be constrewed as racism but isn't inbound) quick to blame other races as a whole or just be completely racist to other races. This is not to say that this is their total attitude overall, but they turned on the College of Winterhold on a moment's notice just because magical events were going on. Granted, most people would in that situation think "The magically inclined are responsible for our MAGICALLY based injuries and faults!" Though a case is made against that fact by not only geography of the college and the Archmage at the time, it is sadly ignored. Something I thought odd that the Nords and many others missed is the simple idea I came up with. If you have a group of powerful mages, devoting their lives to the pursuit of magical knowledge and work, wouldn't they be able to protect a simple building? Considering there were occurances like the eye & staff of magnus presently, it wouldn't be a far stretch to leave the possibility of many mage's skill at the very least creating a smaller scale mimic of the abilities of an unbreakable shield which Ancanno so kindly shows us is possible with the eye (right before I, and most people, shoved a sword into his face and other bodily areas). Back on topic, the Nords are quick to judge and post blame, even if there isn't reason and just the simple fact that they want someone to have to hit with their discontent. I'd say 1/3 or 2/3 of the nordic population is decent and the other 1/3 is racist. Comparing this with other races... I'd say it's pretty even, even if they have less of a reason to be racist than races with extended lifespans like Altmer or Dunmer.

      Imperials. More or less accepting of everyone to be truthful from what I've seen. I have a bit of work to do on my Imperial lore, but they seem to believe every area conquered and controlled, and the people within it, are part of their culture and traditions. I find no issues with this so feel free to prove me wrong if you can.

      Beast races. I'll skip most of these to make this easy on myself. They are not exactly as "developed" for lack of a better term as even the Nords or Orcs. Khajiit are kind of "iffy" in that area as they are very diverse and hard to analyse but I'd say that, at the very least, Argonians are as primitive as they are because they're rather new-ish in comparison to the other races with all (but Khajiit I think) had either pre-existing races and cultures or extended periods through which to evolve and develope. I'd say, whatever they do, it's like a child trying to tell someone what they want. They can't yet 'cause they don't know it themselves. Though I do love playing an Argonian, I actually found it strange that an assumed reptillian humanoid (meaning they'd be cold-blooded) would be in skyrim. I actually figured the reason they hadn't moved to skyrim in mass migrations is because one, they aren't trusted, and two, they are cold-blooded, but I'm probably wrong. Khajiit get much worse of a reaction than other races. They aren't allowed in cities all together except in rare exceptions (i.e. being the Dragonborn or company of the Dragonborn). As bad as Altmer - Nord relations may be, Altmer are still allowed into the cities whereas racial profiling has left Khajiit unable to enter most, if not all cities totally. As bad as "slavery dipped pasts" or "god-hatin' racists" may be, they are still allowed to enter the city in the cold wastelands that hold most of the areas over skyrim.


      This concludes my long, rambling, somewhat off-topic prelude. :P

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    • 50.121.108.111 wrote:
      -This is way too long and I'm snipping it!-

      Orcs

      -Lots of info... At least they're nice enough to defy tradition and let the dragonborn (and it can be assumed there are other acceptions as well, seeing as they don't give a flying fadoodle what kinda <Noun>born you are) **into their strongholds and culture somewhat.**

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    • Well... Interesting speech.

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    • Yes. Yes it was...

      Seems everyone abandoned this area for the time being.

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    • The Argonians and Khajiit are not new.  They're natives.  They're not maladapted, they're marginallized.  They are what the other races have allowed them to be.

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    • Well, to clear that up, I didn't mean they came about recently, I meant they became marginally civilized recently. MaladaptIVE is not providing adequate or appropriate adjustment to the environment or situation, which they have more than done well considering the situation. What do you mean by "They are what the other races have allowed them to be?" That makes no sense. Basically you're saying that because other races didn't interact with them much, they were responsible for their current situation. I'm asking, could you clarify?

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    • For examle look at the Khajiit,  There used to be many types of Kahjiit,  Kahjiit fisherfolk, Kahjiit priests all living in a purposeful equilibrium.  Enter Elves and Men who killed off all the kahjiit they didn't like (those who wouldn't play ball and that could be killed) and took their stuff.  We end up with the traders preforming the only sociatally exceptable role.  As defined by the concurng Mer and Men. Plus the warriors desperatly trying to chip away at the edges of the cultural monolith that has no use for them.

      Also the Argonians are this but have been ground down even worse and reside on reservation land so worthless it is literally uninhabitable fo anyone else.

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    • Do you mean Black Marsh by that last bit? They haven't been "ground down," they live there because that's their homeland. They were enslaved for a while, but then they fought back with such ferocity that they nearly defeated Morrowind. Even now they maintain a very respectable army. It is said that Black Marsh has never been successfully invaded, even by Tiber Septim's forces.

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    • There is one design flaw the altmer have. selective breeding. while it has worked to make them stronger in some ways. All man races wilkl eventually out breed them and win the day. So those long lifes will be meaningless.

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    • Well Altmer is my favorite race in TES so I don't have anything agianst mer.

      Dunmer can be a bit annoying, the fact that they've used argonian and khajiit slaves pisses me off.

      btw Altmers are OP in Oblivion.

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    • I always wanted to visit Black Marsh, but I never figured out which game had it, if any...

      <3 Argonian

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    • The Elder Scrolls: Arena had it, lovely scaleback.

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    • The Dunmer actually used argonian, khajiit, nords, orcs, redguards, possibly even imperials as slaves if I remember Morrowind correctly. 

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    • Sky Above,Voice Within
      Sky Above,Voice Within removed this reply because:
      Scratch that.
      04:32, January 25, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • Matias240 wrote:
      The Dunmer actually used argonian, khajiit, nords, orcs, redguards, possibly even imperials as slaves if I remember Morrowind correctly. 

      well iv'e only heard of Argonians and Khajiits.

      In The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, orcs and altmers are also in the business, not as much but still.

      I Still like the Altmers though, I wish Mankar Camoran would've been a bit cooler though, kind of lame voice he had. 

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    • Yeah, afaik there were no Nordic, Orcish, Redguard or Imperial slaves in Morrowind at all (although there was one Dunmer slave, the one whom you had to pass as a Telvanni bride for an Ashlander khan).

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    • There were Orsimer slaves in Morrowind, and I recall some NPCs talking about how Breton slaves don't work hard. That's as far as my memory goes, though.

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    • According to UESPWiki, all the NPC slaves are Argonian or Khajiit save for the Dunmer I mentioned and, strangely enough, an Altmer who's being sold in the same "bunch" with the Dunmer.

      You might be confusing slaves with the vampire cattle (there were Orsimer vampire cattle). Mind you, it's possible that I am forgetting some dialogue or the Wiki is incorrect.

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    • I don't hold anything against the mer. btw I like the Bosmer. They make great archers.

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    • Coppermantis wrote:
      Prove it. Show me a substantial number of altmer outside the Aldmeri dominion who display arrogant or otherwise undesirable characteristics. 

      It's just that in Skyrim there are obviously not that many elves who come of their own accord, so we mostly see Thalmor justiciars. Ergo, most of the altmer we encounter will be "bad."


      Also, some Altmer in Skyrim even profess disdain for the Thalmor. So there's that. 


      Taarie and Endarie, owners of Radiant Raiment. Snobby lot they are. Not really a substantial number, I know.

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    • Some different races I found 

      Morrowind: Slave Market

      Im quite sure I found some Orc slaves once or twice. Read The Marskmanship Lesson it talks about a Dunmer having Orcs as slaves. 

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    • 80.216.217.27 wrote:

      Don't the majority of the Altmer in Mundus live within the AD?

      And can therefore to a degree be assumed to at least largely agree with the Thalmor on Talos and by extention humanity?


      I doubt I have any named examples you don't already know of.

      You've got to think about this in real-world terms. For example my father is a staunch republican and filled full of all kinds of hate and racism. He whole-hearted agrees with abortion and thinks abortion should be mandatory for some people. This is the opposite of his political party's stance/beliefs on this subject. And if you look at it through a macro lens, most people don't even vote. They just live their lives and let the politicians do their thing without a second thought. I would wager most Altmer don't give two flying flips about Talos or even the Divines for that matter. Only when it inconveniences them in some way will they form an opinion, just like in a normal society.

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    • we must hate mer because they're different and so they must be hated and persecuted whenever posible.

      is humanity 101 damn it...

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    • While I don't really "hate" Mer, I can give you reasons why people would dislike them:

      Altmer - Formed the Thalmor and desire complete dominance over all other races. Generally highly egotistical.

      Dunmer - Strongest proponents of slavery in Tamriel. Not much else though (honestly they are one of my favorite).

      Bosmer - Cannibalism. Due to their religion, they'd sooner kill you, eat your flesh, and use your bones and sinew for crafting than chop down one tree.

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    • MeadDrinker wrote:
      we must hate mer because they're different and so they must be hated and persecuted whenever posible.

      is humanity 101 damn it...

      Then tell me. Did you gain anything from that hate?

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    • yes an awesome sense of belonging to this here thing called mankind.

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    • i hate dunmer, because whenver my brothers and sisters would want to speak to people about our religion, of how talos is a false god,  they would kill them, and now thanks to that danmed Juib, im all alone. those thalmor felas though they are kewl, becuase they listened to us.

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    • I would like to call attention to the fact that somebody here evidently thinks that the Orcs and beast races are less culturally developed than Men and Mer.

      I am going to work on that a little.

      The first known Khajiit civilization (though described as "preliterate" and presumably rather primitive) is said to be in the early Merethic Era. In 2E 309, a central government was formed, which, notably, was named after a proverb. Do new, primitive societies tend to have proverbs? I do not think so. Futhermore, if you go by their creation myth, the Khajiit as a people are at least as old as the Bosmer, although that is of course a myth and can't really be trusted. (Source here)

      Please note that the first recorded presence of humans in Tamriel is in the mid-Merethic Era. True, these were largely Atmorans, who already had a fairly developed culture, but they were still later than the Khajiit. (Source here) The wiki says here, although without a known source and therefore uncertain, that the Khajiit were in Tamriel even before the Elves, which, while only a possibility, would be some serious stuff if it was confirmed.

      Furthermore, Khajiit culture appears in many places, where it is quite clearly fully formed. They have an entire creation myth. They have clear naming conventions. Simply because a culture has a tribal government does not make them primitive and undeveloped, and the tribes are largely in a peaceful accord, according to the Pocket Guide to the Empire, third edition, which indicates some degree of sophisticated trade and politics (the Khajiit notion of trade is discussed here). Furthermore, the Mane, according to The Pocket Guide (or possibly not; I may have gotten my sources mixed up. Certainly it's in one of the sources I've linked to.), the Mane acts as more of a despot or ruler than Elsweyr's tribal society would indicate, suggesting a futher developed government.

      The reports of other races may or may not be reliable, because humans, as we all know, have a most annoying tendency to assume that because something looks like an animal and lives tribally, that something must be primitive. People, in general, seem to tend towards doing that, which is why racism is such a thing. Of course not all individual people tend towards racism. Not even the majority. But on a very, very large scale, that is very much how many people think.

      Because of this animal appearance = bestial, primitive society problem, there seem to be no sources about the Khajiit besides these books involving their own accounts:The Tale of Dro'zira,Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi, andAhzirr Traajijazeri. I don't know what qualities exactly communicate this, but those simply are not the works of an uncivilized, primitive culture. Further illustrating this is Cherim's Heart of Anequina, which is an entire interview with a Khajiiti artist, noting (presumably cultural) stylistic differences. Is it not one of the hallmarks of advanced civilization that stories and art are rich and distinguished?

      There is also this: "It may be comfortably surmised that the Khajiit, though most at home in the deserts, reigned as the dominant culture across southern Tamriel in ancient days."

      And this: "When the early human settlers in Tamriel were only just beginning to understand what plants grew where under what circumstance, there were already mercantile caravans in modern day Rimmen; when the transplanted natives of Atmora and Aldmeris were vying for dominance in the north, the Khajiit had already developed a sophisticated culture in the south."

      Now, that is the Pocket Guide to the Empire, which is rather iffy. However, given the age of the Khajiit as a people, it doesn't seem entirely unlikely. The entire text is here, and I think it illustrates the point quite well.

      Essentially, given these cultural works, the time of presumed origin of the Khajiit, and the Pocket Guide, as well as what could be said to be basic human nature as far as making foolish assumptions goes, I think it's safe to say that the Khajiit are not primitive, nor are they undeveloped.

      Now for the Argonians.

      While the Argonians are as a whole very secretive and their culture remains very much hidden, the presence of a complex and distinct marriage ceremony (here and here), organized custom regarding the Hist and the selection of Shadowscales, and the existence of a political faction indicate that their culture is most likely more than primitive. Although they do seem largely "backwards" as far as their economy goes (Pocket Guide to the Empire, third edition, under "Current Events", and The Argonian Account series, Book 1 given, link to the next one below, generally communicating that Argonians at large produce just what they need and no more), it evidently floats their boat, and is no indicator of cultural development. In some sources, (the wiki page for Argonians, provided above, among them), it would seem that Argonia/Black Marsh has a king and a court - that is, centralized government, a further indicator of advanced civilization. There is less evidence for the Argonians than there is for the Khajiit, unfortunately, but I think it may be enough.

      Regarding the Orcs:

      If you only look at Orc Strongholds as examples of their civilization, and take polygamy, rule-of-the-fittest heirarchy, and chieftan-only marriage rules to be animalistic, abhorrent, and/or primitive, then yes, the Orcs seem animalistic and primitive. However, these traits of their culture, while immoral by some human standards, and very similar to the lifestyles of some animals, are seemingly exclusive to the Strongholds, not to mention that they by no means dictate the level of civilization in the Strongholds. The concept of diplomatic marriage indicates sophisticated politics (see Borgakh the Steel Heart), and the superiority of Orcish armor indicates technological advancement. Furthermore, the existence of the city of Orsinium, which is under consideration for provincial status and hosts religious controversy (religious controversy being largely the province of intellectuals), paints a clear picture of "higher" civilization.

      End rant, I think.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Pelinal Whitestrake
      Pelinal Whitestrake removed this reply because:
      Could start a flame war, is also RPing in a thread about Lore.
      16:27, January 29, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • Altmer - Want to take over Tamriel and hates mortality

      Dunmer - Enslaved other races and worship the daedric princes

      Bosmer - Helped Aldmeri Dominion

      That's as basic as I can put it.

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    • Altmer are generally insane, while some are nice.

      Dunmer are boss, they're perfect vampire lord assasins. 

      Bosmer are the best, they're all like Legolas.

      However, Altmer are excellent mages.

      Dunmer are kind of rude.

      Bosmer are flawless. (Okay, maybe they were canibals) 

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    • KawaiiFez wrote:

      Bosmer are flawless.

      Except for the CANNIBALISM!

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    • NO *sweats nervously* there was NO CANNIBALISIM!!!!

      Execpt for that one Bosmer named Hannibal.....

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    • KawaiiFez wrote:

      Bosmer are the best, they're all like Legolas.

      Could you point me out to the media where Legolas is portrayed as a barbaric cannibal, that only consumes meat and uses bones for his apparel.

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    • bosmer: Cannibals

      Altmer: Nazi's

      Dunmer: Slavers

      Dwemer: Also slavers

      Falmer: Genocidal

      then again....

      Atmorans: Also genocidal (although they had a better excuse, granted.)

      argonians: nothing particularily evil but they did sack morrowind

      Khajjit: skooma.

      When I really thought about it, orcs are actually, ironically, the least evil of all races.

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    • Ikabite wrote:
      KawaiiFez wrote:

      Bosmer are the best, they're all like Legolas.

      Could you point me out to the media where Legolas is portrayed as a barbaric cannibal, that only consumes meat and uses bones for his apparel.

      I meant like with the archery stuff.

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    • I don't understand why so many people are bending over backwards to defend the Bosmer. 

      Look, I like Legolas and and the iconic western RPG style Elf as much as the next fantasy RPG obsessed gamer, but the Bosmer are NOT the same! Sure, they're skilled archers and they live in the woods, but come on! Legolas never ate human flesh, and while the stereotypical Elf did respect nature, most of their structures still required the use of lumber from trees. The Bosmer aren't this isolated, peaceful, wise, nature attuned people that is so commonly portrayed in other works. They are cannibalistic, barbaric, and willing to turn their own people into monsters, not just out of defense, but ritualistically at the end of every era. They have even accepted the idea that all monsters existing in Nirn are born from previous Wild Hunts.

      They are not good people!

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    • i think its funny how we have such a disdain for what WE consider evil, dont you just love ignorance. So the Bosmer are somewhat cannibalistic, in some cultures this is fround upon, but it's becuase of the Green pact thing where they must use every part of what they kill which why they do participate in it, but becuase it is fround upon by most of tamriel they try not to kill each other, now man on the other hand are not elves so if they eat them its not considered cannibalism.

      As for slavery, slavery has been apart of human culture for thousands of years. You only hate slavery because the way you were raised said that  it was bad; if you grew up owning slaves then you wouldnt think it a bad thing, its normal, everyone you know owns slaves.

      Nazi'ism, well if catagorizing all Altmer as "Nazis" isnt ignorant, then idk what is.  The THALMOR who are the governing body of the third dominion are radicals, but they do not make up the whole population, sure in Skyrim they do, but thats skyrim.

      i think people discriminate against mer becuase they resemble the human aspects that we shun and hide from

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    • You can't defend what they do without trying to justify it. If you say that Bosmer are not wrong for eating people because they are Bosmer, then what you have just done is justified the act of cannibalism. If a Nord was eating another person because they worship Namira, that's wrong. But if a Bosmer does it because he is following the Green Pact, then that's okay?

      There is no such thing as an act that can be justified simply by replacing the participants. Cannibalism is bad because it is the act of eating the body of another sentient (or roughly defined as humanoid) creature, often preceeded by the act of murdering it. Slavery is wrong because it is the act of forcing another sentient creature to perform acts of labor against their will.

      I very much doubt that the people killed and served as food wanted to be food. And the Argonians are obviously pretty pissed about the idea of being enslaved. So why would you justify it happening? It's one thing if their actions stayed within their own culture (i.e. if the enslaved party accepted slavery on a culture stand point), but it doesn't. Men don't believe in cannibalism and yet Bosmer would force it upon them anyway. Argonians don't believe in slavery, yet the Dunmer forces it upon them anyway. Culture tolerance only goes to the point where it doesn't affect other cultures. When one culture begins forcing itself on another (see Bosmer eating men or Dunmer enslaving Argonians), that's where it crosses the line. And Mer as a whole, unfortunately, have a long history of FORCING their cultural practices on others.

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    • cannibalism has nothing to do with sentience, chickens eating chickens is cannibalism.

      the slavery thing is different, but the way its usually practiced is definitely evil.

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    • Dark Jeto wrote:
      You can't defend what they do without trying to justify it. If you say that Bosmer are not wrong for eating people because they are Bosmer, then what you have just done is justified the act of cannibalism. If a Nord was eating another person because they worship Namira, that's wrong. But if a Bosmer does it because he is following the Green Pact, then that's okay?

      There is no such thing as an act that can be justified simply by replacing the participants. Cannibalism is bad because it is the act of eating the body of another sentient (or roughly defined as humanoid) creature, often preceeded by the act of murdering it. Slavery is wrong because it is the act of forcing another sentient creature to perform acts of labor against their will.

      I very much doubt that the people killed and served as food wanted to be food. And the Argonians are obviously pretty pissed about the idea of being enslaved. So why would you justify it happening? It's one thing if their actions stayed within their own culture (i.e. if the enslaved party accepted slavery on a culture stand point), but it doesn't. Men don't believe in cannibalism and yet Bosmer would force it upon them anyway. Argonians don't believe in slavery, yet the Dunmer forces it upon them anyway. Culture tolerance only goes to the point where it doesn't affect other cultures. When one culture begins forcing itself on another (see Bosmer eating men or Dunmer enslaving Argonians), that's where it crosses the line. And Mer as a whole, unfortunately, have a long history of FORCING their cultural practices on others.

      a Bosmer eating an Imperial isnt cannibalism, they are not of the same species, and they have no choice but to eat what they kill if they are following the green pact, do they like it? no, which is why they try to refrain from killing man and fellow mer.

      as for slavery, WE view it as evil, we never grew up around it, only those who were enslaved viewed it as a bad thing. Free manual labor, sounds appealing to any one, not to mention owning someone who does anything you say ( im not saying i condone slavery).

      to be honest the mer of TES resemble humanity more than any of the other races, and we dont like that because it reminds us of what we are capable of  which is probably why there is discrimination towards their cultures 

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    • Lonely Cliff-Racer wrote:
      Dark Jeto wrote:
      You can't defend what they do without trying to justify it. If you say that Bosmer are not wrong for eating people because they are Bosmer, then what you have just done is justified the act of cannibalism. If a Nord was eating another person because they worship Namira, that's wrong. But if a Bosmer does it because he is following the Green Pact, then that's okay?

      There is no such thing as an act that can be justified simply by replacing the participants. Cannibalism is bad because it is the act of eating the body of another sentient (or roughly defined as humanoid) creature, often preceeded by the act of murdering it. Slavery is wrong because it is the act of forcing another sentient creature to perform acts of labor against their will.

      I very much doubt that the people killed and served as food wanted to be food. And the Argonians are obviously pretty pissed about the idea of being enslaved. So why would you justify it happening? It's one thing if their actions stayed within their own culture (i.e. if the enslaved party accepted slavery on a culture stand point), but it doesn't. Men don't believe in cannibalism and yet Bosmer would force it upon them anyway. Argonians don't believe in slavery, yet the Dunmer forces it upon them anyway. Culture tolerance only goes to the point where it doesn't affect other cultures. When one culture begins forcing itself on another (see Bosmer eating men or Dunmer enslaving Argonians), that's where it crosses the line. And Mer as a whole, unfortunately, have a long history of FORCING their cultural practices on others.

      a Bosmer eating an Imperial isnt cannibalism, they are not of the same species, and they have no choice but to eat what they kill if they are following the green pact, do they like it? no, which is why they try to refrain from killing man and fellow mer.

      as for slavery, WE view it as evil, we never grew up around it, only those who were enslaved viewed it as a bad thing. Free manual labor, sounds appealing to any one, not to mention owning someone who does anything you say ( im not saying i condone slavery).

      to be honest the mer of TES resemble humanity more than any of the other races, and we dont like that because it reminds us of what we are capable of  which is probably why there is discrimination towards their cultures 

      You didnt counter the argument. The argument was that they are wrong not because of what they do but because they force what they do onto cultures that found in unethical. While im not saying I hate them I still understand why somebody would.

      honestly? I like the mer more than humans (my favorite are argonians and khajit) but I understand why you would be angry at them. I also agree neither slavery nor cannibalism are objectively evil- but the society makes it evil and therefore, within that society, it is.

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    • I feel all the hate towards Elven kind is primarily directed towards the Thalmor. Since the Thalmor are Elven supremacists and highly favor elves, people assume that ALL elves associate themselves with them. Since the Thalmor are viewed unfavorably, many come to hate elves.

      P.S Nothing wrong with liking the Thalmor either...I do. Even though they are morally corrupt in their tactics.

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    • First Inquisitor Hyrandill wrote:
      I feel all the hate towards Elven kind is primarily directed towards the Thalmor. Since the Thalmor are Elven supremacists and highly favor elves, people assume that ALL elves associate themselves with them. Since the Thalmor are viewed unfavorably, many come to hate elves.

      P.S Nothing wrong with liking the Thalmor either...I do. Even though they are morally corrupt in their tactics.

      They are in serious need of change in management imo. lol If I was the leader of the Thalmor, I'd be a patient man/mer or whatever it is. :)

      But if a group like the Thalmor did exist in real life, liking them is wrong and can "demonize" your reputation and public image, if you know what I mean.

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    • First Inquisitor Hyrandill wrote:
      I feel all the hate towards Elven kind is primarily directed towards the Thalmor. Since the Thalmor are Elven supremacists and highly favor elves, people assume that ALL elves associate themselves with them. Since the Thalmor are viewed unfavorably, many come to hate elves.

      P.S Nothing wrong with liking the Thalmor either...I do. Even though they are morally corrupt in their tactics.

      Were the Ayleids Thalmor?

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    • 80.216.220.71 wrote:

      First Inquisitor Hyrandill wrote:
      I feel all the hate towards Elven kind is primarily directed towards the Thalmor. Since the Thalmor are Elven supremacists and highly favor elves, people assume that ALL elves associate themselves with them. Since the Thalmor are viewed unfavorably, many come to hate elves.

      P.S Nothing wrong with liking the Thalmor either...I do. Even though they are morally corrupt in their tactics.

      Were the Ayleids Thalmor?

      In a sense, yes they were. They did see themselves as being the superior race in Tamriel, perhaps justifiably, as the Thalmor do. They also employed ruthless and efficient tactics to exert this belief, much like the Thalmor. As for me liking the Thalmor, it would only hurt my image in the eyes of those who's views are opposite to mine. The Thalmor means something different to different people: some see them as cruel fascists, others as the righteous rulers of Tamriel. It all depends on how you look at it.

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    • First Inquisitor Hyrandill wrote:

      In a sense, yes they were. They did see themselves as being the superior race in Tamriel, perhaps justifiably, as the Thalmor do. They also employed ruthless and efficient tactics to exert this belief, much like the Thalmor. As for me liking the Thalmor, it would only hurt my image in the eyes of those who's views are opposite to mine. The Thalmor means something different to different people: some see them as cruel fascists, others as the righteous rulers of Tamriel. It all depends on how you look at it.

      Ah... point understood.


      It also depends on what pants one is wearing, leather for instance.

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    • First Inquisitor Hyrandill wrote:
      In a sense, yes they were. They did see themselves as being the superior race in Tamriel, perhaps justifiably, as the Thalmor do. They also employed ruthless and efficient tactics to exert this belief, much like the Thalmor. As for me liking the Thalmor, it would only hurt my image in the eyes of those who's views are opposite to mine. The Thalmor means something different to different people: some see them as cruel fascists, others as the righteous rulers of Tamriel. It all depends on how you look at it.

      The Thalmor don't want to rule Men though, they want to eradicate them from existince. Chances are they'll do the same thing to the Beastfolk and non-High Elf Mer as well, if given the chance. This isn't speculation or perspective. It's confirmed that the Thalmor seek nothing less than the complete annihilation of all Men and Talos/Lorkhan.

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    • Dark Jeto wrote:
      First Inquisitor Hyrandill wrote:
      In a sense, yes they were. They did see themselves as being the superior race in Tamriel, perhaps justifiably, as the Thalmor do. They also employed ruthless and efficient tactics to exert this belief, much like the Thalmor. As for me liking the Thalmor, it would only hurt my image in the eyes of those who's views are opposite to mine. The Thalmor means something different to different people: some see them as cruel fascists, others as the righteous rulers of Tamriel. It all depends on how you look at it.
      The Thalmor don't want to rule Men though, they want to eradicate them from existince. Chances are they'll do the same thing to the Beastfolk and non-High Elf Mer as well, if given the chance. This isn't speculation or perspective. It's confirmed that the Thalmor seek nothing less than the complete annihilation of all Men and Talos/Lorkhan.

      Well, there are Khajiit in C0DA. So, atleast the Khajiit survived Landfall. Dunno about the Argonians, tho.

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    • I still don't agree with C0DA. I think that when the time comes, when the Elder Scrolls games timeline finally catches up with the out of game lore, that Bethesda isn't going to follow outside lore established in C0DA when making the new games.

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    • With total honesty, i think the Dominion is due for a change in leadership. :)

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    • MK has stated C0da has nothing to do with the elder scrolls.

      Somebody on these forums linked to him saying it.

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    • 80.216.220.71 wrote:
      MK has stated C0da has nothing to do with the elder scrolls.

      Somebody on these forums linked to him saying it.


      He didn't. Give me a link which proves that.

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:


      He didn't. Give me a link which proves that.

      Well if I had the link I would already have posted it.

      This is the best I got right now;

      elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:570246

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    • I'm just going on what I saw somebody else on the forum quote MK saying.

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    • ...So? MK says that C0DA was supposed to indirectly symbolize the end of Canon Wars. It still takes place in the TES Universe and has tons of characters out of Bethesda TES games. Which obviously means that C0DA has something to do with TES.

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    • Thu'umBurper wrote:
      Altmer- Bad

      Bosmer- EPIC!

      Dunmer- Cool

      Orc- Badass but ugly

      YOU ARE A GENIUS.

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    • Why thank you ;)

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    • 100th comment!

      Sorry I just had to reach to it.

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    • I don't hate mer I hate Daedra

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    • Deadra Hunter67 wrote:
      I don't hate mer I hate Daedra

      Why do you hate Daedra?

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    • Deadra Hunter67 wrote:
      I don't hate mer I hate Daedra

      No surprise. His name is Daedra Hunter... :)

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    • Altmer= Mixed reactions really

      Bosmer= They deserve to be gods (I dont care about cannibalism, thats like saying if you dont like worship then it is wrong...)

      Dunmer= Slavery, but past is the past

      Orsimer= Honestly dont like their religion and their barbaric nature but powerful as crap

      Dwemer= Robots...may I need say much else?

      Falmer= Twisted, dark, and rising (a.k.a. the new dark rising game...)

      LeftHanded Elves= Cant tell...

      Maormer= Sea elves...nothing else to say...

      Chimer= Freedom of religion and they are hated so much

      Aldmer= Original mer, also why Altmer use select breeding

      Aylied= Allied to bosmer and will shoot everything else down...


      My opinion-ish stuff on the diffrent mer (suprised that only the orcs dwarves and the 3 standerd elves were mainly mentioned

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    • ok heres my opinions:

      Altmer= meh. Dont inspire any strong feelings in me, really.

      Bosmer= bloody cannibals.

      Dunmer= DOWN WITH MORROWIND! LONG LIVE ARGONIA! (im an argonian player.)

      Orsimer= Awesome!

      Dwemer= My favorite of the bunch. Tall dwarves, awesome architechture, incredible power, insane technology, then perished creating a god.

      Falmer= The same opinion of LOTR Goblins. Which is, I really like them as long as they arent killing dwarves.

      Lefthanded= Heck if I know.

      Maormer= My second favorite. I really like sea elves, and I think that my favorite actual faction in the game is Pyrodanea.

      Chimer= Down with the chimer! Long live the dwemer! (I am also a dwemer player. Cause, y'know, mods.)

      Aldmer= same as altmer

      Aylied= Gotta love those aylied ruins and stuff.

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    • Mer are a mixed bunch.

      Altmer  :  strained liking at best, due to the Thalmor, pretentious attitudes, & hypocracy in a race so bent on perfection & supposed divine blood-lines.

      Aldmer  :  seem alright as ancient wise elves  ( probably easier to get along with too ) .

      Bosmer  :  depends on the individual, but their lifestyle & sense of honor seems admirable to an extent.

      Chimer  :  may have made some mistakes following certain Daedra, but they left a very strict society & accept their mortality as a trial rather than hold a grudge like some of the Altmer.


      Orsimer  :  both appreciative, but almost pitying for their culture & way of life. Little outside contact is bad enough, but misunderstanding & exile is even worse.

      Dunmer  :  humbler outside of Morrowind, but often enigmatic. Unfortunately they can be quite racist as well as immoral through the act of slavery for one example.

      Maormer  :  seem violent, but possibly not as erratic or hateable for fighting the Altmer on Sommerset.


      Dwemer  :  Mysterious, logical, & probably not as unreasonable for their actions as some think. They would probably have needed a lot of provoking to go to war or enslave other elves.

      Falmer  :  the ancient Snow Elves  ( I like to call "Falmeri" )  may have tolerable or even likeable, but perhaps fairly brash.  The Falmer in the ruins are unfortunate degenerates with risky ways.

      Ayleid  :  mixed review, but similar enough to Aldmer to merit respect. Their ruins inspire, though their history is unsavory & full of conflicts of all manners.


      Other elves I cannot say much of, since they are much more speculative.

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    • I found out that Wood elf isnt 'Bosmer'...its 'Moramer' (bos means forest, green, and sap...while mora means wood)

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    • 74.47.111.53 wrote:
      I found out that Wood elf isnt 'Bosmer'...its 'Moramer' (bos means forest, green, and sap...while mora means wood)


      Eh?

      What do you mean with this? The official Aldmeri name for the Wood Elves is Bosmer, and just because "Moramer" could fit more, you can't change it.

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    • In any case, "mora" is more like "grove" than "wood". Varying meanings. Additionally, the original name is Bosmer. The humans made another meaning out of it. It doesn't mean "wood elves", it means "wood ones" or "wood folk", or even "forest ones".

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    • .Talik wrote:
      ok heres my opinions:

      Altmer= meh. Dont inspire any strong feelings in me, really.

      Bosmer= bloody cannibals.

      Dunmer= DOWN WITH MORROWIND! LONG LIVE ARGONIA! (im an argonian player.)

      Orsimer= Awesome!

      Dwemer= My favorite of the bunch. Tall dwarves, awesome architechture, incredible power, insane technology, then perished creating a god.

      Falmer= The same opinion of LOTR Goblins. Which is, I really like them as long as they arent killing dwarves.

      Lefthanded= Heck if I know.

      Maormer= My second favorite. I really like sea elves, and I think that my favorite actual faction in the game is Pyrodanea.

      Chimer= Down with the chimer! Long live the dwemer! (I am also a dwemer player. Cause, y'know, mods.)

      Aldmer= same as altmer

      Aylied= Gotta love those aylied ruins and stuff.

      Lefthanded Mer are a different kind elves? O_o I"M A MER!

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    • Nazul Rostello wrote:
      Altmer and their superiority complex.

      Bosmer created the Wild Hunt beasts.

      Dunmer enslaved the Argonians.

      Dwemer enslaved the Snow Elves.

      Bosmer rarely use the wild hunt unless attacked by man. Argonians kicked dunmer out of their home. Elves live in a race eat race world where every race has alot of evil. However most people refuse to see that and use the Thalmor Excuse. Do you know why the Snow Elves killed nords? Because of population something that the nords would have done in reversed. The RedGaurds killed off every single left handed elf. You dont have a right to hate on elves unless all of the other races werent jerks aswell.

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    • I've said this before on a previous thread, saying the elves are evil for slavery is a very poor excuse/reason for claiming they're bad. For starters,you're using a one-sided perspective, when you state "slavery," you grew up in age where slavery is veiwed as bad, slavery has only been "bad" for only a couple centuries, which is very small since slavery had been used since ancient Sumer. Now back to the game world; the Dunmer culture included the use of slavery, and never thought any less of it, had you grown up in a culture that included slavery you wouldnt think any less of it either. So saying elves are bad for slavery is just like me saying the thieves guild is bad, because they steal; they steal to survive, and make money, but i grew up being told that stealing is bad, so i hate the thieves guild because they steal from people. 

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    • by that logic, nobody is evil at all. If genocide and murder and slavery and stealing is all ok in their society, then they still arent evil. Just because they arent objectively evil they are still evil from our standpoint, which is the only one that matters, because we are us.

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    • .Talik wrote:
      by that logic, nobody is evil at all. If genocide and murder and slavery and stealing is all ok in their society, then they still arent evil. Just because they arent objectively evil they are still evil from our standpoint, which is the only one that matters, because we are us.


      From a Philosophical view: There's no Evil nor Good in the world. It all depends on your own perspective. If someone does something which is, in your opinion, good, then someone else might find it evil.

      That's also the case with the Dunmer. They don't see slavery as evil because they've been doing it since they first got to Morrowind.

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    • yes. And I repeat my previous statement. If your saying there is no good nor evil in the world, then you may as well just say 'oh go ahead and kill me. Its not evil at all.'

      Its just ridiculous. If you use that logic, you may as well just not bother fighting in any games, because from an objective POV the enemy isnt evil after, so what does it matter that they are trying to murder you?

      I mean, if your saying 'you cant call them evil because theres no objective evil' then by that logic you have to like everything and would never fight or call anyone enemies because from an 'objective' POV its irrelevant. But OUR POV is the one that actually matters. So yeah, it depends on our perspective. And if our perspective is that they are 'bad' then they are, to us. And our perspectives are what matters to us.

      Also its objective view not philosophical view. The philosophical view is what made evil and good in the first place.

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    • Thu'umBurper wrote:
      Why do loads of people hate Mer, Altmer may be bad but why so much hatred for Bosmer and Dunmer (Bosmer the best)???

      I like Mer....................I like to eat them................is that weird to say.........they're a healthy diet. :p

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    • 170.211.170.15 wrote:
      Thu'umBurper wrote:
      Why do loads of people hate Mer, Altmer may be bad but why so much hatred for Bosmer and Dunmer (Bosmer the best)???
      I like Mer....................I like to eat them................is that weird to say.........they're a healthy diet. :p


      You're a cannibal?

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      170.211.170.15 wrote:
      Thu'umBurper wrote:
      Why do loads of people hate Mer, Altmer may be bad but why so much hatred for Bosmer and Dunmer (Bosmer the best)???
      I like Mer....................I like to eat them................is that weird to say.........they're a healthy diet. :p

      You're a cannibal?

      That or he's a Bosmer.

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    • I like female Mer, they're beautiful and they don't get old quickly...

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    • ^True dat

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    • Altmer - Fuck you

      Bosmer - Fucking love

      Orc - Big fat love

      Dunmer - Eh

      Dwemer - Do i look like i met one?

      Chimer - Do i look like ive played the quest in ESO that shows you a Chimer?

      Maomer - Do i look like i saw one?

      Left Elves - They left my train of thought

      Thalmor - ....

      Aldmer - Neh.

      Snowmer - Whoop Whoop 

      Any other elves - I love them this much: (--------------------------------------------------------------------------)

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    • Dark Jeto wrote:

      AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      170.211.170.15 wrote:
      Thu'umBurper wrote:
      Why do loads of people hate Mer, Altmer may be bad but why so much hatred for Bosmer and Dunmer (Bosmer the best)???
      I like Mer....................I like to eat them................is that weird to say.........they're a healthy diet. :p

      You're a cannibal?
      That or he's a Bosmer.

      Nope. I'm a Werewolf.

      - Dovah-Swag

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    • Krozyne wrote:
      HumbleDaedricServant wrote:
      Krozyne wrote:
      Nelthro wrote:
      Becasue they can stab you to death with their deadly chins?

      Don't hate, the Altmer are the superior race, and after they conquer Nirn, they will spread to SPAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!!!!
      Yeah, right. They couldn't even stand against a full-scale Daedric Invasion of Nirn. The Daedra are the rulers of Mundus. And soon. We will make all men & mer learn their place as slaves to Molag Bal.

      As for Mer... I don't hate mer. They just have a massive superiority complex to me.


      It's not their fault that they are superior.

      Superior to My heavily armored Breton bashing their skulls in with a dragonbone warhammer?

      I think not.

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    • Female Elves are hot, pretty and they age very slowly.

      She can take care of you when you get old, she'll always stay the same as the first day you met and you'll never get tired of banging her.

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    • that is not even a legitimate argument. That doesnt even suggest superiority. I mean, the part where they live longer maybe but seriously thats just....

      Ugh, think im gonna have to go kill somebody just to get over how much I hate that argument.

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    • Wow, you would wiki.

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    • what?

      oh and you know I was reffering to the guy after you, yes? Your argument doesnt bother me at all. Even though it isnt really an argument.

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    • Yes i know, i was also responding to the other person

      and i wasnt arguing, i was disproving XD.

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    • ah, ok.

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    • still, what does 'wow, you would wiki' mean?

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    • He is talking about the Wiki contributor above your original post, who wrote about what he would do with a female Elf, replying 'You would', referring to the contributor as 'wiki' rather than saying someone would 'wiki' (as in a verb). The post confused me at first as well.

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    • if I said you would internet, would it make a bitm more sense XD

      I was saying he wiki is full of ppl who say... vividd or otherwise strange things.

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    • oh, ok yeah that makes alot more sense.

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    • Well, I do not hate every mer race, but I definitely hate Altmer, especially the Thalmor ones. Patrolling the roads and cities of Skyrim, while not letting anyone worship Talos, the one who Nords respect the most due to his herotic achievements, is just wrong, I know there is a reason for them doing so but it still cannot be forgiven. Also, even though they are abroad (being in Skyrim) they still behave like they rule Skyrim. 

      Well, I do not hate Bosmer, and i do not hate Dunmer either, but i still don't like them. True, Dunmer are quite afflicted in Skyrim, but i do not like their attitude. Especialy after reading one book written by one Dunmer guy about the Nords, forgot it's name. I don't like Orcs either, but i respect them.

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    • Meh. I personally am not even bothered by their refusal to let people worship talos, in the context. I mean, the imperials dont let people worship daedra either, yet nobody seems to get angry at them about it. This is a different society! Tolerance isnt really a thing yet! Every race commits atrocities on other races, except the orcs.

      (No, seriously. Every race except the orcs has commited some atrocity. I would list them all but that would take forever.)

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    • Peryn Fralene wrote:
      Well, I do not hate every mer race, but I definitely hate Altmer, especially the Thalmor ones. Patrolling the roads and cities of Skyrim, while not letting anyone worship Talos, the one who Nords respect the most due to his herotic achievements, is just wrong, I know there is a reason for them doing so but it still cannot be forgiven. Also, even though they are abroad (being in Skyrim) they still behave like they rule Skyrim. 

      Well, I do not hate Bosmer, and i do not hate Dunmer either, but i still don't like them. True, Dunmer are quite afflicted in Skyrim, but i do not like their attitude. Especialy after reading one book written by one Dunmer guy about the Nords, forgot it's name. I don't like Orcs either, but i respect them.

      You seem to be judging entire races by a few individuals, which is incredibly flawed. What about the Altmer Legate you can find in Riften if you side with the Legion, who fought against the Aldmeri Dominion to defend refugees during  the night of Green Fire? Not all Altmer support the Aldmeri Dominion, or the Thalmor in particular, and it is rather unfair to judge the entire race by it. 

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    • Nazul Rostello wrote:
      Altmer and their superiority complex.

      Bosmer created the Wild Hunt beasts.

      Dunmer enslaved the Argonians.

      Dwemer enslaved the Snow Elves.

      And the snow elves commited genocide on the first nords that came from atmora.


      There's reason to hate a few mer, but no reason to hate many. You cannot blame an entire race for the actions of a few, even if those few are representatives of the race, like kings, leaders, even whole sects.

      Even within the aldmeri dominion there are altmer that don't care that humans worship talos. The only people who care about this are the thalmor. 

      They have a grandiose image of themselves, part because they consider themselves direct descendants of the divines, and part because ever since the thalmor rose to power, the aldmeri dominion and the kingdom of alinor has done nothing but expand and prosper. 

      As long as the thalmor keep being in power, more and more altmer, bosmer and khajit will be swayed by their views, and more will they be able to expand their power.

      If you want to hate anyone, you should hate the thalmor and hateful individuals, like ancano, or elenwen. Not the entirety of altmer. Nor any other mer race.

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    • 24.42.11.100 wrote:
      Nazul Rostello wrote:
      Altmer and their superiority complex.

      Bosmer created the Wild Hunt beasts.

      Dunmer enslaved the Argonians.

      Dwemer enslaved the Snow Elves.

      And the snow elves commited genocide on the first nords that came from atmora.


      There's reason to hate a few mer, but no reason to hate many. You cannot blame an entire race for the actions of a few, even if those few are representatives of the race, like kings, leaders, even whole sects.

      Even within the aldmeri dominion there are altmer that don't care that humans worship talos. The only people who care about this are the thalmor. 

      They have a grandiose image of themselves, part because they consider themselves direct descendants of the divines, and part because ever since the thalmor rose to power, the aldmeri dominion and the kingdom of alinor has done nothing but expand and prosper. 

      As long as the thalmor keep being in power, more and more altmer, bosmer and khajit will be swayed by their views, and more will they be able to expand their power.

      If you want to hate anyone, you should hate the thalmor and hateful individuals, like ancano, or elenwen. Not the entirety of altmer. Nor any other mer race.

      Indeed. In fact, I think that irrational hatred of Mer as a whole drives more moderate individuals into the arms of organisations which promote Merrish supremacy. After all, how is hating them for something they cannot change convince them that Man is worth saving?

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    • Lonely Cliff-Racer wrote:
      Dark Jeto wrote:
      You can't defend what they do without trying to justify it. If you say that Bosmer are not wrong for eating people because they are Bosmer, then what you have just done is justified the act of cannibalism. If a Nord was eating another person because they worship Namira, that's wrong. But if a Bosmer does it because he is following the Green Pact, then that's okay?

      There is no such thing as an act that can be justified simply by replacing the participants. Cannibalism is bad because it is the act of eating the body of another sentient (or roughly defined as humanoid) creature, often preceeded by the act of murdering it. Slavery is wrong because it is the act of forcing another sentient creature to perform acts of labor against their will.

      I very much doubt that the people killed and served as food wanted to be food. And the Argonians are obviously pretty pissed about the idea of being enslaved. So why would you justify it happening? It's one thing if their actions stayed within their own culture (i.e. if the enslaved party accepted slavery on a culture stand point), but it doesn't. Men don't believe in cannibalism and yet Bosmer would force it upon them anyway. Argonians don't believe in slavery, yet the Dunmer forces it upon them anyway. Culture tolerance only goes to the point where it doesn't affect other cultures. When one culture begins forcing itself on another (see Bosmer eating men or Dunmer enslaving Argonians), that's where it crosses the line. And Mer as a whole, unfortunately, have a long history of FORCING their cultural practices on others.

      a Bosmer eating an Imperial isnt cannibalism, they are not of the same species, and they have no choice but to eat what they kill if they are following the green pact, do they like it? no, which is why they try to refrain from killing man and fellow mer.

      as for slavery, WE view it as evil, we never grew up around it, only those who were enslaved viewed it as a bad thing. Free manual labor, sounds appealing to any one, not to mention owning someone who does anything you say ( im not saying i condone slavery).

      to be honest the mer of TES resemble humanity more than any of the other races, and we dont like that because it reminds us of what we are capable of  which is probably why there is discrimination towards their cultures 


      Just because they don't like doing it I'm supposed to think it's okay for them to eat someone due to it being of their belief system? No, screw that, if I lived in Tamriel, and I saw some bosmer chowing down on an Imperial I'd probably introduce that Bosmer to my boot at least. I don't care about his belief system or whether he likes what he's doing or not, the fact remains that he's eating someone.

      We view slavery as evil because it is evil on a fundamental level, the idea of forcing someone to serve you hand and foot without compensation and holding that kind of power over someone simply due to your social status is wrong, regardless of what BS "It's not evil in the context of their culture lol" line of thinking you use.

      In your opinion perhaps, but I feel that the human races resemble humans, y'know what with the human physiology, human ideals, etc. and what you said here is what one can say of any race.

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    • I would also view humans in TES being the most, well, human. I think real life humans would also have a Padomaic approach to life, as they are often represented (even in other fantasy series, like the Lord of the Rings). 

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    • I hate the look of them, I have always played as a Nord or human race until recently, with racemenu (mod) I made a nice looking one, which doesn't really look like a bosmer at all to be honest, she's really cute though, so I guess there not that bad, obviously I still hate those bloody thalmor.

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    • 222.155.99.239 wrote:
      I hate the look of them, I have always played as a Nord or human race until recently, with racemenu (mod) I made a nice looking one, which doesn't really look like a bosmer at all to be honest, she's really cute though, so I guess there not that bad, obviously I still hate those bloody thalmor.

      They are rather interesting, though. 

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    • Because they're evil? Seriously though...pretty much the main villain in all the games were elves. Jagar Tharn looked dunmer from his artwork, his ancestor may have been imperial but all it takes is one dunmer mother for him to be dunmer. TESII didn't really have a main villain but Mannimarco could count...who is an altmer. Dagoth Ur was a chimer, and Almalexia the same albeit bloated on Shor's divine power. Mankar Cameron...altmer, Umaril the Unfeathered was also an elf, alyeids are a different strain of altmer if I'm not wrong, but they are definitely elves. And in Skyrim we have the Thalmor...not the main antagonist yes...but still a major sign of evil for elves. 

      There's also their general behaviors, Falmer tried to wipe out all the proto-nord atmorans in an unprovoked attack on Sarrthal, Dunmer have a history of slavery and not to mention worship Daedra like Boethia and Mephala (Azura is...the only grey one in there), Altmer...do I even have to mention it? Bosmer eat people and created the wildhunt beasts, Dwemer betrayed and enslaved the Falmer, Orsimer are the only ones that are remotely okay! I'm not going to mention the others because we don't know shit about the Maomer, and the Alyeids are pretty much just Altmer living in Cyrodil.

      Out of many main titles and their dlc's there were only 5 villains that weren't elves: Hirrcine, Jyggalag, Alduin, Harkon, and Miraak...and that's not counting all the guild questlines! The way they act throughout history is also disgusting. So yeah...elves have an extremely high rate of evil.

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    • ^there not evil, no more then men and beast people's dont forget the Imperials and Nords committed acts just as bad. Numidium killed off shit tons of elves, the imperials unleashing a dragon on the Redguards as well as Killing or exiling the elves that were a major help in freeing them from the Alyids is cruel and backstabbing as well.

      "Altmer...do I even have to mention it?"

      probly because most people make the mistake and think all Altmer are Thalmor, not the case, its like assuming all Russians are Communists

      you mention the bad but you forget (like in almost all other fantasies) they invented the Modern world the others live in. from engineering, to learn about and harnessing magic, to the alphabet and i think they were the ones who discovered the Aedra and started to worship them and spread their religion. all this was done while the Imperials still lived like Native Americans essentially. they did just as much good as men did and just as much backstabbing as men did.

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    • Phantasys wrote:
      Because they're evil? Seriously though...pretty much the main villain in all the games were elves. Jagar Tharn looked dunmer from his artwork, his ancestor may have been imperial but all it takes is one dunmer mother for him to be dunmer. TESII didn't really have a main villain but Mannimarco could count...who is an altmer. Dagoth Ur was a chimer, and Almalexia the same albeit bloated on Shor's divine power. Mankar Cameron...altmer, Umaril the Unfeathered was also an elf, alyeids are a different strain of altmer if I'm not wrong, but they are definitely elves. And in Skyrim we have the Thalmor...not the main antagonist yes...but still a major sign of evil for elves. 

      There's also their general behaviors, Falmer tried to wipe out all the proto-nord atmorans in an unprovoked attack on Sarrthal, Dunmer have a history of slavery and not to mention worship Daedra like Boethia and Mephala (Azura is...the only grey one in there), Altmer...do I even have to mention it? Bosmer eat people and created the wildhunt beasts, Dwemer betrayed and enslaved the Falmer, Orsimer are the only ones that are remotely okay! I'm not going to mention the others because we don't know shit about the Maomer, and the Alyeids are pretty much just Altmer living in Cyrodil.

      Out of many main titles and their dlc's there were only 5 villains that weren't elves: Hirrcine, Jyggalag, Alduin, Harkon, and Miraak...and that's not counting all the guild questlines! The way they act throughout history is also disgusting. So yeah...elves have an extremely high rate of evil.

      First off, Jagar Tharn is a Breton who had a Dunmer father. In TES, the child takes the race of his/her mother on with a few traits from the father. 

      Mannimarco is not a villain in Daggerfall.

      Is it seriously surprising that a Dunmer/Chimer is the villain in a game set in Morrowind, the home of the Dunmer?

      Umaril the Unfeathered was a half-daedra. He didn't really count as a mer anymore, and Ayleids are one of the descendants of the Aldmer. Not Altmer.

      Are you serious? All Mer are now evil because of the Thalmor? 

      "Dunmer have a history of slavery and not to mention worship Daedra"

      You, sir, have to learn more about lore before making such claims. The Dunmer have a history of slavery. Exactly like humans IRL had. Does that make every human on Earth insta-evil now? Also, Daedra do not have a morale. They are not evil nor good. Worshipping them is not a sign of being evil. 

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    • Pelinal Whitestrake wrote:
      Phantasys wrote:
      Because they're evil? Seriously though...pretty much the main villain in all the games were elves. Jagar Tharn looked dunmer from his artwork, his ancestor may have been imperial but all it takes is one dunmer mother for him to be dunmer. TESII didn't really have a main villain but Mannimarco could count...who is an altmer. Dagoth Ur was a chimer, and Almalexia the same albeit bloated on Shor's divine power. Mankar Cameron...altmer, Umaril the Unfeathered was also an elf, alyeids are a different strain of altmer if I'm not wrong, but they are definitely elves. And in Skyrim we have the Thalmor...not the main antagonist yes...but still a major sign of evil for elves. 

      There's also their general behaviors, Falmer tried to wipe out all the proto-nord atmorans in an unprovoked attack on Sarrthal, Dunmer have a history of slavery and not to mention worship Daedra like Boethia and Mephala (Azura is...the only grey one in there), Altmer...do I even have to mention it? Bosmer eat people and created the wildhunt beasts, Dwemer betrayed and enslaved the Falmer, Orsimer are the only ones that are remotely okay! I'm not going to mention the others because we don't know shit about the Maomer, and the Alyeids are pretty much just Altmer living in Cyrodil.

      Out of many main titles and their dlc's there were only 5 villains that weren't elves: Hirrcine, Jyggalag, Alduin, Harkon, and Miraak...and that's not counting all the guild questlines! The way they act throughout history is also disgusting. So yeah...elves have an extremely high rate of evil.

      First off, Jagar Tharn is a Breton who had a Dunmer father. In TES, the child takes the race of his/her mother on with a few traits from the father. 

      Mannimarco is not a villain in Daggerfall.

      Is it seriously surprising that a Dunmer/Chimer is the villain in a game set in Morrowind, the home of the Dunmer?

      Umaril the Unfeathered was a half-daedra. He didn't really count as a mer anymore, and Ayleids are one of the descendants of the Aldmer. Not Altmer.

      Are you serious? All Mer are now evil because of the Thalmor? 

      "Dunmer have a history of slavery and not to mention worship Daedra"

      You, sir, have to learn more about lore before making such claims. The Dunmer have a history of slavery. Exactly like humans IRL had. Does that make every human on Earth insta-evil now? Also, Daedra do not have a morale. They are not evil nor good. Worshipping them is not a sign of being evil. 

      I don't like it when people think everything is black and white, good and evil. Maybe in Lord of the Rings you could say it's good vs evil, well that's if you count good and evil as real instead of just a human idea. I hate it even more when people take a whole race or society, and generalise them, "omg this elf is doing bad things every elf is evil" I disagree, you don't need to learn more about lore, you need to learn more about how life works in general. A whole society is not "good" or "evil" because of the actions of a few individuals. It's also made very clear in TES games that every race has decent folk within it, do you even play the games?

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    • ScholarOfTheScrolls wrote:
       A whole society is not "good" or "evil" because of the actions of a few individuals. It's also made very clear in TES games that every race has decent folk within it, do you even play the games?

      But with Mer it is not "just" a "few" individuals, it's the majority doing these kinds of actions and holding vile and reprehensible beliefs.

      The belief that Mer has a special snowflake divine origin that sets them above all others is a Mer belief not a Thalmor one.

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    • ScholarOfTheScrolls wrote:It's also made very clear in TES games that every race has decent folk within it, do you even play the games?

      For every "decent" Mer like there is atleast a hundred Ancanos, Thalmor or no.

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    • "But with Mer it is not "just" a "few" individuals, it's the majority doing these kinds of actions and holding vile and reprehensible beliefs."

      again look at how the imperials were, they unleashed a giant golem on the elven armies killing an insane amount for no reason otehr then to conquer, they unleshed a dragon on the redguards, and they killed or exiled the elves who helped free them from slavery from the Alyids. and as said before they pretty much made Tamriel the place it is with all their inventions and technology, men would still be hunter-gatherers if it wasnt for them. elves did much good too, much more then men.

      so what are these "vile acts and beliefs" that are much worse then what men have done?

      your ignoring the facts

      The belief that Mer has a special snowflake divine origin that sets them above all others is a Mer belief not a Thalmor one."

      i think you would view yourself above another race if you invaneted the modern world and the other races didnt contribute anything but copied your idea's, dont you? I know I would.

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    • Did I say at any point that all individuals of the merish race were evil? No. I'm pointing out that out of the megalomaniacal villain lineup for elderscrolls elves have a staggeringly huge proportion among them. 

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    • Well what is argonian is good and all the other races are also good

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    • Phantasys wrote:
      Did I say at any point that all individuals of the merish race were evil? No. I'm pointing out that out of the megalomaniacal villain lineup for elderscrolls elves have a staggeringly huge proportion among them. 

      you might need to re-read your post again, the middle paragraph defintiely made it seem that way

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    • Ok we get it, all the races in TES are pricks...

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    • No Dunmer can complain about nords or even Altmer being racist,Dunmers in Morrowind were much more racist than any other race ever,still,it does not make them bad.

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    • yeah, they can complain. whether some dunmer were racist- or, ok, yeah alot of dunmer. So what? that doesnt make it ok to be racist against them. Thats the kinda mindset which is why everybody is racist in the first place

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    • Dyrcaend wrote:
      yeah, they can complain. whether some dunmer were racist- or, ok, yeah alot of dunmer. So what? that doesnt make it ok to be racist against them. Thats the kinda mindset which is why everybody is racist in the first place

      Nobody is racist towards them.

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    • Nobody is racist towards Dunmer? Are you kidding? Have you been to Windhelm?

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    • 200.217.107.1 wrote:
      No Dunmer can complain about nords or even Altmer being racist,Dunmers in Morrowind were much more racist than any other race ever,still,it does not make them bad.

      So? Just because there were some Dunmer in the past who enacted racist practices does not mean that they were all racist (just look at the Twin Lamps), nor does it mean that Dunmer in the Fourth Era can be judged by the same standard. Should modern Britons be judged by the slavery their nation backed until the slave trade was abolished in 1833? Besides, two wrongs do make a right, racism is bad whoever it is directed at. 

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    • Coppermantis wrote:
      Nobody is racist towards Dunmer? Are you kidding? Have you been to Windhelm?

      Yes, I have. Saw bigotry there, understandable as it was lamentable.

      Bigotry does not equal racism, Nords and Dunmer are not the same species in any meaningful way.

      It follows therefore that they can't be racist toward eachother.

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    • King in the North wrote:

      So? Just because there were some Dunmer in the past who enacted racist practices does not mean that they were all racist (just look at the Twin Lamps), nor does it mean that Dunmer in the Fourth Era can be judged by the same standard. Should modern Britons be judged by the slavery their nation backed until the slave trade was abolished in 1833? Besides, two wrongs do make a right, racism is bad whoever it is directed at. 

      The (former) slave owning Dunmer are still alive, so your comparison comparison fall apart right there.

      They have recieved no real punishment for the vile practice, apart from the Argonian invasion of Morrowind.

      The dead slaves are calling out for justice.


      Did you mean don't make a right?

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    • 80.216.198.94 wrote:
      Coppermantis wrote:
      Nobody is racist towards Dunmer? Are you kidding? Have you been to Windhelm?
      Yes, I have. Saw bigotry there, understandable as it was lamentable.

      Bigotry does not equal racism, Nords and Dunmer are not the same species in any meaningful way.

      It follows therefore that they can't be racist toward eachother.

      OK, fyne then. Specist. You happy now?

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    • 80.216.198.94 wrote:
      Coppermantis wrote:
      Nobody is racist towards Dunmer? Are you kidding? Have you been to Windhelm?
      Yes, I have. Saw bigotry there, understandable as it was lamentable.

      Bigotry does not equal racism, Nords and Dunmer are not the same species in any meaningful way.

      It follows therefore that they can't be racist toward eachother.

      For all intents and purposes, in the universe of the Elder Scrolls, racism works as a perfectly fine term.

      And, even if we don't call cross-species prejudice "racism," you still have the altmer/Thalmor, who consider all other species of elves to be lesser.

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    • 80.216.198.94 wrote:
      King in the North wrote:

      So? Just because there were some Dunmer in the past who enacted racist practices does not mean that they were all racist (just look at the Twin Lamps), nor does it mean that Dunmer in the Fourth Era can be judged by the same standard. Should modern Britons be judged by the slavery their nation backed until the slave trade was abolished in 1833? Besides, two wrongs do make a right, racism is bad whoever it is directed at. 

      The (former) slave owning Dunmer are still alive, so your comparison comparison fall apart right there.

      They have recieved no real punishment for the vile practice, apart from the Argonian invasion of Morrowind.

      The dead slaves are calling out for justice.


      Did you mean don't make a right?

      To be fair, after the Red Year and what not, many of those ex-slave owners are likely to have died. Remember, those that are still alive would more likely be the ones who overturned slavery.

      And yes, I did mean that, I had not noticed my error. Thanks.  

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    • King in the North wrote:

      To be fair, after the Red Year and what not, many of those ex-slave owners are likely to have died. Remember, those that are still alive would more likely be the ones who overturned slavery.

      And yes, I did mean that, I had not noticed my error. Thanks.  

      Hopefully their deaths were as slow and painful as possible.

      Their overturning of slavery doesn't silence the dead slaves cries for justice nor does it in anyway make up for all the suffering.


      Thought so,  :). And no prob.

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    • Dyrcaend wrote:

      OK, fyne then. Specist. You happy now?

      Happy?

      No, not really.

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    • 80.216.194.17 wrote:
      King in the North wrote:

      To be fair, after the Red Year and what not, many of those ex-slave owners are likely to have died. Remember, those that are still alive would more likely be the ones who overturned slavery.

      And yes, I did mean that, I had not noticed my error. Thanks.  

      Hopefully their deaths were as slow and painful as possible.

      Their overturning of slavery doesn't silence the dead slaves cries for justice nor does it in anyway make up for all the suffering.


      Thought so,  :). And no prob.

      That is a tad harsh. I mean, I agree with you that slavery is abhorrent, but still. By that statement, what I more meant was, we cannot really be sure how many of the survivors after both the Red Year and the Argonian invasion of Morrowind were ex-slave owners, and even those who were around before the Fourth Era may not have been proponents of slavery. Dres land, the nearest to Black Marsh, would have been hit the hard, and the Telvanni appear to have been hit hard too, while it was House Redoran (who are so fond of slavery as those two) led the counterattack. 

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    • 80.216.194.17 wrote:
      Dyrcaend wrote:

      OK, fyne then. Specist. You happy now?

      Happy?

      No, not really.

      It just semantics, the underlying issue is still the same. 

      Besides, they are all (barring the Argonians) descendants of the Ehlnofey and are still able to breed with one another, which in real life would make them members of the same species, biologically. Of course, phylogeny in TES does not always work the same as in real life, but I still find it an interesting point to consider. 

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    • King in the North wrote:

      It just semantics, the underlying issue is still the same. 

      Besides, they are all (barring the Argonians) descendants of the Ehlnofey and are still able to breed with one another, which in real life would make them members of the same species, biologically. Of course, phylogeny in TES does not always work the same as in real life, but I still find it an interesting point to consider. 

      Well is it really?

      In fantasy as opposed to the real world Racial or species differences are most definitely real.

      Anyone who in Tamriel or even any fantasy work tried to claim there are no racial differences and everyone is the same would be insane.


      And fantasywork like Elder Scrolls has Always Chaotic Evil Races/species like Falmer and so on.

      Using racist/racism one is putting what is true in our world into a fantasyworld were it simply isn't true.

      Where different Races/species definetely should be treated diffirently because of what they are.

      Where race/species actually tells alot about you, unlike the real world etc etc.

      Bottom line in fantasy Race does matter, and is important.

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    • 80.216.194.17 wrote:
      King in the North wrote:

      It just semantics, the underlying issue is still the same. 

      Besides, they are all (barring the Argonians) descendants of the Ehlnofey and are still able to breed with one another, which in real life would make them members of the same species, biologically. Of course, phylogeny in TES does not always work the same as in real life, but I still find it an interesting point to consider. 

      Well is it really?

      In fantasy as opposed to the real world Racial or species differences are most definitely real.

      Anyone who in Tamriel or even any fantasy work tried to claim there are no racial differences and everyone is the same would be insane.


      And fantasywork like Elder Scrolls has Always Chaotic Evil Races/species like Falmer and so on.

      Using racist/racism one is putting what is true in our world into a fantasyworld were it simply isn't true.

      Where different Races/species definetely should be treated diffirently because of what they are.

      Where race/species actually tells alot about you, unlike the real world etc etc.

      Bottom line in fantasy Race does matter, and is important.

      While that may be, these people are racist against people with mostly human characteristics and very close similarities to humans, along with humans varied good and evil natures. Now if they were racist against the always chaotic evil races, like falmer, then yes it would be a different situation. But as it is, no its really quite similar because the racism is exchanged between races which are, at heart, very similar to humans with their motivations, desires, personalities, etc.

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    • King in the North wrote:

      That is a tad harsh. I mean, I agree with you that slavery is abhorrent, but still. By that statement, what I more meant was, we cannot really be sure how many of the survivors after both the Red Year and the Argonian invasion of Morrowind were ex-slave owners, and even those who were around before the Fourth Era may not have been proponents of slavery. Dres land, the nearest to Black Marsh, would have been hit the hard, and the Telvanni appear to have been hit hard too, while it was House Redoran (who are so fond of slavery as those two) led the counterattack. 

      Well all Dunmer (within Morrowind mostly) benefited from slavery and the whole culture and their roads and cities was built on it and by it.

      Took them long enough to get rid of it though.

      Thousands of years?

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    • Dyrcaend wrote:

      While that may be, these people are racist against people with mostly human characteristics and very close similarities to humans, along with humans varied good and evil natures. Now if they were racist against the always chaotic evil races, like falmer, then yes it would be a different situation. But as it is, no its really quite similar because the racism is exchanged between races which are, at heart, very similar to humans with their motivations, desires, personalities, etc.

      True enough there, agreed on the whole.

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    • mer can't be held responsible for the thamor the race is not bad its the individual, the germans are the corse of the wars and i don't go killing them for fun, forgiveness is what many have and many need

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    • 114.78.103.82 wrote:
      "the race is not bad its the individual, the germans are the corse of the wars"

      That hypocritical swing.

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    • Dunmer are evil too. They use Argonians and Khajiit's as slaves.........

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    • Using slaves is common among elven races. Altmer, Ayleids, Dwemer and Dunmer/Chimer did so. That doesn't automatically make them evil though, and the Dunmer have stopped using slaves since the late 3rd Era. I believe it was King Helseth Hlaalu who ended the slavery in the province.

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    • Try using that logic for people on Earth.

      Are all Brazilians or Americans in the southern states "bad" because they used slaves in the past, no. I feel it is the same for Dunmer

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    • I personally have no quarrel with Bosmer, I think they're alright, don't mind the Dunmer even after what they did to my people so long, Orsimer are cool, however the Altmer I do not like, I mean yeah they're may be a few who aren't stuck up, but I think it's just mainly the fact that they think their better than every on and think that they're the bosses.

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Try using that logic for people on Earth.

      Are all Brazilians or Americans in the southern states "bad" because they used slaves in the past, no. I feel it is the same for Dunmer

      Were you joking? What is good about havng slaves? Yes the slave owners were/are bad people. It's easy to romanticize slavery when you've never been a slave. Any person having complete control over another beings life is ultimately going to be corrupted by that power. 

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    • Since my last post I've become much less ignorant of the Elder Scrolls lore. Mer are the children of the Et'ada that wanted the world unmade and men are the children of the ones who supported creation. While the mer themselves can't be blamed for attempting to bring about the end of the world the gods their worship gives strength to can. The elvish religion must be stamped out to protect convention, and the only feasible way to do so is to defeat them and their puppet governments and install the original Nordic Pantheon (gods who would not destroy the world) as the official tamrielic religion.

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    • AzuraKnight
      AzuraKnight removed this reply because:
      Just an insult.
      20:03, June 18, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • 80.216.214.210 wrote:
      They exist?

      They walk around claiming to be decendants of the divine when they are no moreso than any other Race etc etc.


      I could go on, but there's really no need.

      Everything they do serve only to antagonize the other Races.

      Ey by dagon I hate the thalmor but I am still a proud altmer.

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    • The Nords typically dislike elves due to past conflicts they had with them, like the Great War and The Battle of Red Mountain. Not to mention how the Falmer slaughtered the Nord's ancestors when they first settled in Skyrim. But I still dont think they hate them that much. Mabye they have a certain bias against them, but not fullblown hate(except the elves who are Thalmor Justiciars). Otherwise you wouldn't see many of them in Skyrim, even less, seeing them living peacefully and prosperous.

      Myself, I dont care for the elves any more than humans and the beast-men. Elf, human, cat or lizard, they all equally have he right of getting my help if they need it or my axe in their head if they cross me.

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    • 74.184.197.28 wrote:

      Zippertrain85 wrote:
      Try using that logic for people on Earth.

      Are all Brazilians or Americans in the southern states "bad" because they used slaves in the past, no. I feel it is the same for Dunmer

      Were you joking? What is good about havng slaves? Yes the slave owners were/are bad people. It's easy to romanticize slavery when you've never been a slave. Any person having complete control over another beings life is ultimately going to be corrupted by that power. 

      I'm not justifying slavery, I'm saying that just because you're from the same REGION as people who USED to do bad things like that, it doesn't mean that everyone from there is evil. You get what I am saying?

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    • o

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    • Thu'umBurper wrote: Why do loads of people hate Mer, Altmer may be bad but why so much hatred for Bosmer and Dunmer (Bosmer the best)???

      Xenophobes. Mostly bandits, and even our very own Lydia. "Your kind has no place here".

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    • There are many friendly and helpful Mer out there, be they Bosmer, Dunmer, or Altmer. I believe people judge the Mer races based on the Thalmor's actions, and I also believe other races can be too harsh on Mer sometimes, especially Nords. If you want an example of friendly and helpful Mer in Tamriel, go to the College of Winterhold in Skyrim.

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    • Thu'umBurper wrote:
      Why do loads of people hate Mer, Altmer may be bad but why so much hatred for Bosmer and Dunmer (Bosmer the be
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    • A FANDOM user
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