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  • Pelinal Whitestrake
    Pelinal Whitestrake closed this thread because:
    Has been resurrected too often already and has deteriorated into Off-Topic.
    19:23, February 24, 2015

    This thread is a continuation of the discussion, that happened here.

    So as the name says, who is the most powerful? A list posted in the last thread:

    1. Talos

    2. The HoonDing

    3. Trinimac

    4. Vivec

    5. Leki

    6. Reman

    7. Auri-El

    8. Wulfharth

    9. Morihaus

    10. Pelinal

    I remember seeing this list somewhere on the Reddit, but I can't find any sources now.

    Discuss. But, please, keep on topic this time.

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    • Most sources indicate that Talos is indeed the most powerful god in the Aurbis. Anu, Padomay, Anuiel and Sithis shouldn't count because they're outside of the Aurbis.

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      Most sources indicate that Talos is indeed the most powerful god in the Aurbis. Anu, Padomay, Anuiel and Sithis shouldn't count because they're outside of the Aurbis.

      Anuiel and Sithis ARE the Aurbis, as stated by Dovahsebrom in the last thread.

      "'The conditions and limitations Anuiel and Sithis applied to each other is what formed the Aurbis.

      In other words, Anuiel and Sithis are the Aurbis."'

      While I don't know what bits they are, I imagine Sithis as Oblivion, Anuiel as Aetherius, and the interplay of their powers as Mundus.

      Think of it like a Venn Diagram.

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    • Anuiel and Sithis are part of the Aurbis, but they're not in Aetherius, Oblivion or Mundus, if you understand what I mean. 

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    • Anuel and Sithis are personifications of Anu and Pandomay. Is and Is-Not. They're forces, that exist outside the TES universe, and exists in pretty much any universe. They're non-sentient laws of the very existence.

      So they, sort of, also exist beyond the Godhead. Godhead only has powers to shape and guide these forces into the TES universe.

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    • Godhead has no powers. He's just dreaming. He can't do anything about his dream. 

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    • Godhead's conscious personality can not interfere with the universe, his sub-conscious will-less mind, however, shapes it.

      It's the state of ultimate power and ultimate weakness. That's why Vivec didn't want to attempt the Amaranth. He didn't want to lose the personality, that let him achieve CHIM in the first place.

      If you want to continue the discussion, I'd suggest making a separate thread.

      We should get back to the topic. :P

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    • yeah you should just write TALOS in huge letters he is king boss and pimpingest of gods.

      he has "reality" changing powers, he is like the abrahamanic god, sees all, knows all, does nothing.

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    • Ikabite wrote:
      Anuel and Sithis are personifications of Anu and Pandomay. Is and Is-Not. They're forces, that exist outside the TES universe, and exists in pretty much any universe. They're non-sentient laws of the very existence.

      So they, sort of, also exist beyond the Godhead. Godhead only has powers to shape and guide these forces into the TES universe.

      Many myths seem to describe Anuiel/Anu and Sithis/Padomay as sentient beings; in my opinion the fact that Anu had reached Amaranth and can now dream proves that these forces are aware.

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    • I know that there are sources that say so. But It seems a bit non-sensical to me.

      Personified characters could be put into stories to describe certain events, while the forces creating these events in reality might not be sentient.

      And I don't think Anu is the Godhead. In a way Godhead acts as Anu, but anyone who reaches the Amaranth becomes "the avatar of Anu". Godhead's mind is the non-sentient filter for creation. Creation must be without the mind, but mind is there to shape it.

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    • The Amaranth isn't an avatar of the Godhead or Anu. The Amaranth is a CHIMster, a sentient being inside the Godheads dream, being in Sensory Deprivation which makes him imagine stuff... And because of his CHIM powers, and because he imagines the Godheads dream, a new dream is created. 

      I'd hardly call that an avatar. That's more like mimmicking. 

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    • Imagine light that cannot move but is somehow able to dream, that is Anu.

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    • I understand what is Anu and what is Amaranth. I should have, probably, chosen my words better.

      Anu is the ultimate force of being, of creation. Law that exists in any universe.

      So in a way any Godhead becomes a tool for creation, therefore a tool for Anu, therefore... sort of an "avatar" of Anu. As AES said, it is similar to mimicking. But at the same time it's non-sentient.

      In a way it could be said that the Godhead is Anu. Depends on how finite or infinite the regression of the dreamers is.

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    • Akatosh=strongest.............  Just the way it is.

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    • 68.38.233.218 wrote:
      Akatosh=strongest.............  Just the way it is.

      Thats some fine evidence you got there.

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    • No doubt. After all he is the dragon god of time. Wasn't it by his consent that Talos ascended to godhood.

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    • 68.38.233.218 wrote:
      No doubt. After all he is the dragon god of time. Wasn't it by his consent that Talos ascended to godhood.


      Dovahsebrom was being sarcastic.

      Anyways, Talos didn't ascend because the Aedra wanted that. He ascended because he walked three Walking Ways.

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    • Tiber is believed to be both a Dragonborn and a Shezzarine, making his soul be a combination of Shor's and Akatosh's soul pieces. But Aedra didn't take a part in his actual ascension to the godhood.

      Existence of Talos was a result of Tiber's utter selfishness and knowledge of his servants.

      Yes, Akatosh is responsible for a linear timeline on Mundus, but it's not that relevant for a dream to have a linear time. Many Gods can, in fact, move through the dimension of time and create or remove objects from it.

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    • Runesfuer
      Runesfuer removed this reply because:
      dsg
      02:30, February 8, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • Sithis is a personification, he is the personification of Death, not Decay or Destruction(Mehrunes Dagon), but Death proper, the act of Dying is in his domain, whereas the act of Living is in Anuel's. the Void is the felm of Death, and death is everchanging, but Life remains the same. One can die many ways, by blade, arrow, poison, sickness, heartbreak, or narurally, and as technology is ever changing, the methods of death that are available to us change as well, now we have poisoned arrows and blades, or spinning arrows, and the dwermer have machines that shoot arrows that are smaller i length and are fired from something called a cossbow, but Life, Living: breathing, eating, and in most cases, sleeping, does not change. Yes Arkay is the god of Life and Death, but he is seen as God of the Cycle of Birth and Death, not the persn who rules over the afterlife of those that fall short of Sovengarde

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    • Sithis isn't the personification of Death. He's the void.

      Death would be one of the domains from Arkay.

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    • Sithis if we're talking strictly divine, unseen gods, he was the creator of  the universe in ES lore. as far as living people I'd say Vivec seeing as he used his powers to stop an asteroid from destroyign a city and destroyed large portions of the Imperial army when Tiber Septim attacked Morrowind

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    • 99.105.83.169 wrote:
      Sithis if we're talking strictly divine, unseen gods, he was the creator of  the universe in ES lore. as far as living people I'd say Vivec seeing as he used his powers to stop an asteroid from destroyign a city and destroyed large portions of the Imperial army when Tiber Septim attacked Morrowind

      Sithis didn't create the Aurbis. It was the Anu/Padomay/Nir Enatiomorph which created it. Sithis is just the soul of Padomay.

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    • oook thx, i get confused when the whole thing is explained beyond the aedra and daedra in the universe of the ES lol i thought Padomay was just another name for him

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    • All Maker is the most powerfull being, this term applies even in our universe.

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    • Stormblind wrote:
      All Maker is the most powerfull being, this term applies even in our universe.

      All-Maker isn't even a thing in TES. There's no god like that. They worship either a form of Anu or Dreamsleeve and souls in general.

      I'd highly suggest not bringing your own religious beliefs into the conversation, it serves no purpose and will only start off-topic arguments.

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    • The most powerful entities I've ever encountered in TES are the Three Stooges (three immortal ash spawn) just south of Raven Rock in Solstheim. They could even defrost Kaarstag's icy demeanor.

      Even the King of Worms could not defeat them while Talos, Anu and all the "nice" gods are nowhere to be seen - perhaps for fear that they might get flamed. But, the way I see it, the power of all the absentees is but myth and legend until it can be measured. So, in my books, it's the Three ash spawn Stooges who are the most powerful entities in TES and a good thing, too, that they haven't got the urge to go and warm up the rest of Solstheim or, perhaps, flambe the denizens of Skyrim - elsewise there might be nothing left for the Dragonborn to wet his blade with.   :^)

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    • Ikabite wrote:

      All-Maker isn't even a thing in TES. There's no god like that. 

      Suggestion accepted.

      But will you explain the words above with logical sense before The Whole Skaals of Solstheim and Me are going to do a wild hunt for your head........ 

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    • Stormblind wrote:

      Ikabite wrote:

      All-Maker isn't even a thing in TES. There's no god like that. 

      Suggestion accepted.

      But will you explain the words above with logical sense before The Whole Skaals of Solstheim and Me are going to do a wild hunt for your head........ 


      By all means, just watch out for the Three Stooges - I imagine their power is up in the megawatt range.

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    • Smoking.Chimp wrote:
      Stormblind wrote:

      Ikabite wrote:

      All-Maker isn't even a thing in TES. There's no god like that. 

      Suggestion accepted.

      But will you explain the words above with logical sense before The Whole Skaals of Solstheim and Me are going to do a wild hunt for your head........ 


      By all means, just watch out for the Three Stooges - I imagine their power is up in the megawatt range.

      hmmmm.....  i bet that they're still no match for Sheogorath in his super saiyan form   XD

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    • Stormblind wrote:
      Smoking.Chimp wrote:
      Stormblind wrote:

      Ikabite wrote:

      All-Maker isn't even a thing in TES. There's no god like that. 

      Suggestion accepted.

      But will you explain the words above with logical sense before The Whole Skaals of Solstheim and Me are going to do a wild hunt for your head........ 


      By all means, just watch out for the Three Stooges - I imagine their power is up in the megawatt range.
      hmmmm.....  i bet that they're still no match for Sheogorath in his super saiyan form   XD

      Who knows, but things which lack verifiability lack applicability. Unless one of these entities shows up in a more powerful form, it's the Three Stooges who are the most powerful entities in TES - because, unlike Sheogorath in his super saiyan form, you really do have to watch out for those guys, especially when leading a follower or a squad of followers who might be prone break formation whenever things get a little  ...  hot.  :^)

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    • anu and padomay 

      for they made the universe that these false beigns claim as theirs

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    • 86.97.18.204 wrote:
      anu and padomay 

      for they made the universe that these false beigns claim as theirs


      Anu and Padomay have no power in the Aurbis, since they exists outside of it.

      People who keep claiming this are clearly uninformed. I think I should write a blog about this.

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    • AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      86.97.18.204 wrote:
      anu and padomay 

      for they made the universe that these false beigns claim as theirs


      Anu and Padomay have no power in the Aurbis, since they exists outside of it.

      People who keep claiming this are clearly uninformed. I think I should write a blog about this.

      one problem with that. 

      If you lived outside a cardboard box, you have power over that box, and can do what you wish with it, and, if you wanted to destroy that cardboard box, then you can, thus Anu and Padomay are the most powerful things in The Elder Scrolls Lore, whether they are beings or not is debatable, their power, however, is not.

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    • Runesfuer wrote:
      AngryEnclaveSoldier wrote:
      86.97.18.204 wrote:
      anu and padomay 

      for they made the universe that these false beigns claim as theirs


      Anu and Padomay have no power in the Aurbis, since they exists outside of it.

      People who keep claiming this are clearly uninformed. I think I should write a blog about this.

      one problem with that. 

      If you lived outside a cardboard box, you have power over that box, and can do what you wish with it, and, if you wanted to destroy that cardboard box, then you can, thus Anu and Padomay are the most powerful things in The Elder Scrolls Lore, whether they are beings or not is debatable, their power, however, is not.

      That is the RL view of it. But the TES Universe is fundamentally different, compared to RL (since the TES Universe is the dream of an unconscious being called the Godhead).

      There's no evidence of either Anu or Padomay actively doing something in the Aurbis.

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    • Can someone explain some words to me? I started reading the previous thread thinking I was a pro when talking about TES lore, but some of you showed me otherwise :O I had just finised reading a bit about CHIM and thought it sounded amazing, and then I found this thread. The things I want to understand is Chim, which from what I understand is godmode or something, but that even the daedra or aedra dare to use it. And how do you obtain it? Amaranth, Walking ways, Godhead and Dreamsleeve I don't get at all, except Godhead and Walking ways has something to do with CHIM. I'd like to know what Anu actually is, and the same with an Enatiomorph. And when you where talking about anu and padomay you also mentioned Nir. What's that? 

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    • Voidcube wrote:
      Can someone explain some words to me? I started reading the previous thread thinking I was a pro when talking about TES lore, but some of you showed me otherwise :O I had just finised reading a bit about CHIM and thought it sounded amazing, and then I found this thread. The things I want to understand is Chim, which from what I understand is godmode or something, but that even the daedra or aedra dare to use it. And how do you obtain it? Amaranth, Walking ways, Godhead and Dreamsleeve I don't get at all, except Godhead and Walking ways has something to do with CHIM. I'd like to know what Anu actually is, and the same with an Enatiomorph. And when you where talking about anu and padomay you also mentioned Nir. What's that? 

      CHIM is a state of mind which a person can achieve when that person fulfills two requirements: 1. Knowing and understanding that 'Reality' is a dream of an unconscious being and that individuality doesn't actually exist, 2. Having enough Willpower and being arrogant/narcistic enough to still maintain a form of individuality. If a person does not fulfill the second requirement, that person Zero Sums. Zero Sum-ing is becoming absolute 0, i.e getting permanently erased from the Godhead's dream. A CHIMster can alter things in the Godheads dream, but there are still certain limits to it, because if a CHIMster alters too much, the Godhead wakes up, which destroys the whole Dream. 

      The Amaranth is, as far as I know, the lowest subgradient. There's currently only one known Amaranth, Anu. Anyways, a person can achieve Amaranth by first achieving CHIM. However, since CHIM is based on selfishness, that person has to become selfless in order to achieve Amaranth. The Amaranth becomes the new Dreamer, and dreams a new Universe. However, the downside to Amaranth is that the 'New Godhead' doesn't have any power over his own Dream, which means that he looses practicly all of the power he had while he still was a CHIMster. 

      The Walking Ways are basicly 6 ways to achieve divinity. These are (in a not specified order) Enatiomorph, Mantling, CHIM, Brass Tower (as in, merging an extreme amount of souls into a divine being, like Kagrenac did with Numidium), the Prolix Tower and the Scarab which becomes the New Man. 

      The Godhead is the Dreamer of the Dream. That's it.

      The Dreamsleeve is a bit complex. It's, as far as I know, a Hivemind-like realm in which the Souls of deceased people get 'recycled' (as in, their personality gets stripped off the soul and destroyed while the soul enters a new body). The Dreamsleeve can be used for communication, for example, through Memospores.

      Anu and Padomay are the first subgradients after the Godhead. Anu is Order and Stasis, while Padomay is Chaos. Nir is the Observer and maybe the Catalyst of the Enatiomorph between Anu and Padomay. 

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    • ^^

      That just made things even more confusing. I liked the days when there was just Anu, Padomay, the Aedra and the Daedra.

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    • StormbladeTheNevarine wrote:
      ^^

      That just made things even more confusing. I liked the days when there was just Anu, Padomay, the Aedra and the Daedra.

      You mean the time in which Daggerfall was released? :p

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    • Mantling isn't a Walking Way

      1. The Tower
      2. The Psijic Endeavor
      3. Un-creation (Anumidum)
      4. The Enantiomorph
      5. CHIM
      6. The Scarab that Transforms into the New Man
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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:
      Mantling isn't a Walking Way
      1. The Tower
      2. The Psijic Endeavor
      3. Un-creation (Anumidum)
      4. The Enantiomorph
      5. CHIM
      6. The Scarab that Transforms into the New Man

      Oops. 

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    • Aaaand, uumm, what's the psijic endeavor, the enatiomorph and the scarab - new man thing? 

      So the Godhead could be anyone in our world (for example) who just has some crazy fantasy and is sleeping a very long time, and the thing (person? creature? pure source of light? I still don't get it) called Anu managed to realize it was part of a dream, and then sort of took control over the person in our world?

      And would this mean that if I manage to realize that I'm part of the Godheads dream, but I have the smallest ego ever, then I'll be erased and everyone will forget everything about me? And all I've done'll also be erased or done by someone else?

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    • Aaaand, uumm, what's the psijic endeavor, the enatiomorph and the scarab - new man thing?

      Psijic Endeavor

      The Enantiomorph is kind of hard to explain. It starts with a clash or joining between two complementary things (think yin-yang). It apparently requires a witness to see the clash and determine that the two things clashing are seperate things. There is two ways I've noticed the Enantiomorph works in the end, one way it works is a force (known as the rebel) wins the clash and takes the place of the other (known as the king); this can be seen with Lorkhan and Aka. Another way it works is the two forces create something new (sort of a symbol of reproduction), this can be seen with the clash between Anu and Padomay in which theirs souls (Anuiel and Sithis) intertwined and created the Aurbis, or with the joining of Talos Stormcrown and Arctus to create Tiber Septim.

      The Scarab transforming into new man is a more unknown concept. From my knowledge, I believe it is the joining of three entities to create one super-entity, a trinity. An example would be Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil joining to form ALMSIVI, or Hjalti, Wulfharth, and Arctus (possibly Tiber Septim, Talos Stormcrown, and the Underking) joining to form Talos the god.

      So the Godhead could be anyone in our world (for example) who just has some crazy fantasy and is sleeping a very long time, and the thing (person? creature? pure source of light? I still don't get it) called Anu managed to realize it was part of a dream, and then sort of took control over the person in our world?

      I wouldn't oversimplify the godhead by saying it is just some dudes dream, it is god, a dream may just be the best way to explain its presence.

      The Amaranth doesn't control the Godhead, the Amaranth is a new godhead that escapes the dream and creates its own.

      And would this mean that if I manage to realize that I'm part of the Godheads dream, but I have the smallest ego ever, then I'll be erased and everyone will forget everything about me? And all I've done'll also be erased or done by someone else?

      This is where I disagree with the common notion on "Zero-Summing". Eight Aedra Eat the Dreamer implies that the Zero Summing of an individual can be remembered. I believe that in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim we may very well have witnessed a Zero Sum, that being of Septimus Signus.

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    • So what is Anu? Does it have a will, and what does the fact that it has reached the Amaranth (whatever that is) mean? Does Anu affect anything in any way or was it just a way to create the world together with Padomay? And doesn't this create some sort of unbalance since Padomay hasn't reached the Amaranth? And is the Amaranth the same as CHIM, or one more being that has reached it? Thanks for answering!

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      This is where I disagree with the common notion on "Zero-Summing". Eight Aedra Eat the Dreamer implies that the Zero Summing of an individual can be remembered. I believe that in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim we may very well have witnessed a Zero Sum, that being of Septimus Signus.

      Because of this part, the Zero-Summing thing is starting to make sense.

      Soo, basically, It's like reading a Elder Scroll and losing your sight, only way worse?

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    • Voidcube wrote: So what is Anu? Does it have a will, and what does the fact that it has reached the Amaranth (whatever that is) mean? Does Anu affect anything in any way or was it just a way to create the world together with Padomay? And doesn't this create some sort of unbalance since Padomay hasn't reached the Amaranth? And is the Amaranth the same as CHIM, or one more being that has reached it? Thanks for answering!

      Apparently, according to Dovahsebrom, Anu and Padomay are the Aurbis. the Godhead is the avatar of Beth- I mean Anu! Anyway, because of the Godhead being a avatar of Anu, there is proof that Anu might have a will, but there is solid proof that Anu does affect the mortal plane - just look at Nirn!

      As for Padomay having a Avatar - well, if one existed, Nirn's screwed.

      (Just read this post again, and I have no idea what I just said.)

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    • Yea, that was pretty wierd. I may want some new answers to that :D

      But if the Godhead is an avatar of Anu, how did the Godhead create Anu and Padomay? And is the Aurbis just like the universe?

      Talking about nothing, the "towers" that's protecting Nirn from Oblivion or whatever, like Red mountain and High Hrothgar, I read somewhere that there was (I think) two of these "towers" that can move. One being Numidium, the giant robot thing that the Dwemer built and the other being some kind of walking tree-town. First off, doesn't it affect the barrier that they move around? Second, when a tower gets destoyed or corrupted or whatever, what happens then? Because it's already happened two times right? One with the white gold tower and the second with the Numidium. Third, if the mortal races can create towers, even though it's from a gods heart, shouldn't they just spam-create the godly soul gem thing they used for Numidium instead of the Lorkhan heart? 

      Was it Sithis and Aka (or Akatosh as I know him, but Pelinal seems pretty sure about the whole Aka was the first thing so yea :D) that created the towers or who was it and why? And is the tower that Lorkhan used something different from the other ones?

      Just a note, I've only played Skyrim and it's DLC:s, so it may not help at all talking about specific NPC:s and quests given that are related to anything in previous games.

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    • So what is Anu? Does it have a will, and what does the fact that it has reached the Amaranth (whatever that is) mean? Does Anu affect anything in any way or was it just a way to create the world together with Padomay? And doesn't this create some sort of unbalance since Padomay hasn't reached the Amaranth? And is the Amaranth the same as CHIM, or one more being that has reached it? Thanks for answering!

      Amaranth doesn't effect anything in the TES universe that I know of. It means that Anu has created A-New universe that it dreams.

      As for the unbalancing, I've often thought the same thing. Perhaps it means Anu won the Enantiomorph (or maybe lost), the concept will probably be cleared up with later lore. Ikabite showed me this a while ago, DIES IRAE, it's apparently going to be the next installment of the C0DAverse, this could possibly explain Padomay's place in the universe.

      Amaranth is two steps over CHIM. After CHIM, one must complete the Scarab that transforms into New Man, and after that one could potentially achieve Amaranth.

      Because of this part, the Zero-Summing thing is starting to make sense.

      Soo, basically, It's like reading a Elder Scroll and losing your sight, only way worse?

      Possibly, I wouldn't call that an absolute truth. However, the only person known to have reached Zero-Sum just so happened to be a Moth Priest.

      Apparently, according to Dovahsebrom, Anu and Padomay are the Aurbis. the Godhead is the avatar of Beth- I mean Anu! Anyway, because of the Godhead being a avatar of Anu, there is proof that Anu might have a will, but there is solid proof that Anu does affect the mortal plane - just look at Nirn!

      As for Padomay having a Avatar - well, if one existed, Nirn's screwed.

      (Just read this post again, and I have no idea what I just said.)

      Anu and Padomay aren't the Aurbis, they are outside it. Their souls, Anuiel and Sithis, are what actually makes the Aurbis. The Godhead isn't an avatar of Anu, the Godhead is the its own entity.

      Talking about nothing, the "towers" that's protecting Nirn from Oblivion or whatever, like Red mountain and High Hrothgar, I read somewhere that there was (I think) two of these "towers" that can move. One being Numidium, the giant robot thing that the Dwemer built and the other being some kind of walking tree-town. First off, doesn't it affect the barrier that they move around? Second, when a tower gets destoyed or corrupted or whatever, what happens then? Because it's already happened two times right? One with the white gold tower and the second with the Numidium. Third, if the mortal races can create towers, even though it's from a gods heart, shouldn't they just spam-create the godly soul gem thing they used for Numidium instead of the Lorkhan heart?

      Was it Sithis and Aka (or Akatosh as I know him, but Pelinal seems pretty sure about the whole Aka was the first thing so yea :D) that created the towers or who was it and why? And is the tower that Lorkhan used something different from the other ones?

      The barriers (barrier may not be the best way to explain it) that the Towers fortify is known as the Wheel of Convention, I wouldn't imagine a moving tower would really effect the barrier but who knows, could be possible, though it probably doesn't make the barrier less powerful or anything. When a Tower is deactivated (which has happened with Snow-Throat, Orichalc, Walk-Brass, Red Moutain, White-Gold, Crystal-Like-Law, and some believe both the Khajiit and Green-Sap) the Wheel of Convention is weakened. If by the godly soul gem you mean the Mantella, then that isn't something that can be easily reproduced (it was made from the Heart of a/many Shezarrine(s) after all).

      Sithis and Aka (who are on different subgradient levels) did not create the Towers. The first tower was Ada-Mantia, I'm not exactly sure who made it, could have been Magnus or possibly Auriel, maybe all the Aedra helped. The Second, Red Mountain, was made when Lorkhan's Heart was thrown to Nirn. The rest were apparently made by elves (though I'd rather doubt the Elves actually built the Throat of the World). The reason the Towers were created was to either support or refute creation, depending on the race of Elves that made them.

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    • When a Tower is deactivated (which has happened with Snow-Throat, Orichalc, Walk-Brass, Red Moutain, White-Gold, Crystal-Like-Law, and some believe both the Khajiit and Green-Sap) the Wheel of Convention is weakened. If by the godly soul gem you mean the Mantella, then that isn't something that can be easily reproduced (it was made from the Heart of a/many Shezarrine(s) after all).

      Sithis and Aka (who are on different subgradient levels) did not create the Towers.The first tower was Ada-Mantia, I'm not exactly sure who made it, could have been Magnus or possibly Auriel, maybe all the Aedra helped.

      Akatosh's vessel planted itself into Nirn and became the Adamantine Tower, also known as Ada-mantia or Ur-Tower, and it was on this first tower that the Convention took place Nu-Mantia Intercept, Letter #4

      The Second, Red Mountain, was made when Lorkhan's Heart was thrown to Nirn. The rest were apparently made by elves (though I'd rather doubt the Elves actually built the Throat of the World). The reason the Towers were created was to either support or refute creation, depending on the race of Elves that made them.

      Okay, so Orichalc was a tower on Yokuda which was destoyed when it sank or something. Read something about some guy tying to do some pokémon move and the tower being destroyed by it. Walk-Brass was destroyed by the Underking whoever that is, Wulfharth or Zurin, when they took their soul from the mantella. The White-gold tower was destroyed when someone in the Oblivion game (I think) was assasinated, and the medal of kings thing was stolen or something. But then the barrier was restored by... destroying the amulet? What? Why didn't they do that directly?

      Red mountain was destroyed in Morrowind right? The nerevarine removed it to defeat the Tribunal or something. And how did he/she remove it?As I've never played it and not read much about it, isn't it better to let the Tribunal rule instead of risking a daedric invasion?

      Looked up Crystal-Like-Law, and it was destroyed after the amulet of kings when the invasion already had started.

      When and how did Snow-Throat get destroyed? And is Khajiit not only the race but also a tower? Can't find antyhing about that.

      I don't know anything about Khajiit or Green-Sap, there's a short text about Green-Sap, but it basically just said that it was a walking city made out of trees, and that it finally settled down somewhere and rooted.

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    • Voidcube wrote:

      Red mountain was destroyed in Morrowind right? The nerevarine removed it to defeat the Tribunal or something. And how did he/she remove it?As I've never played it and not read much about it, isn't it better to let the Tribunal rule instead of risking a daedric invasion?

      Looked up Crystal-Like-Law, and it was destroyed after the amulet of kings when the invasion already had started.

      When and how did Snow-Throat get destroyed? And is Khajiit not only the race but also a tower? Can't find antyhing about that.

      I don't know anything about Khajiit or Green-Sap, there's a short text about Green-Sap, but it basically just said that it was a walking city made out of trees, and that it finally settled down somewhere and rooted.

      The stone of Red Mountain was the Heart of Lorkhan. The reason why the Heart needed to be removed was because Dagoth Ur was able to use it to dream himself alive and was only able to be defeated if the Heart was removed from the world. The Nerevarine achieved this with the tools of Kagrenac, the tonal devices originally used on the Heart by the Dwemer to anti-create themselves into the Anumidium. The fall of the Tribunal was a side-effect of the removal of Lorkhan's Heart, without the Heart they lost their mortal divinity.

      I'm not sure when exactly Snow-Throat was deactivated. However, it is known that it was deactivated as it was part of the Alduin prophecy. It may have been the civil war that deactivated it. The Khajiit themselves are believed to be a Tower, the mane being their stone.

      It is speculated that the settling of Green-Sap may mean the Tower was deactivated.

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    • Okay, thanks for all the help :) 

      Here's a thing I found about Ada-Mantia, but I probably failed showing it to you when I sort of edited you text :/

      Sithis and Aka (who are on different subgradient levels) did not create the Towers.The first tower was Ada-Mantia, I'm not exactly sure who made it, could have been Magnus or possibly Auriel, maybe all the Aedra helped.

      Akatosh's vessel planted itself into Nirn and became the AdamantineTower, also known as Ada-mantia or Ur-Tower, and it was on this first tower that the Convention took plac - Nu-Mantia Intercept, Letter #4

      And yea, Aka was me having a bad brain I realized it was Anuiel

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    • The almighty, omniscient, omnipotent and most powerful being is the TES Universe is:

      " Bethesda Softworks "

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    • Voidcube wrote:
      Okay, thanks for all the help :) 

      Here's a thing I found about Ada-Mantia, but I probably failed showing it to you when I sort of edited you text :/

      Sithis and Aka (who are on different subgradient levels) did not create the Towers.The first tower was Ada-Mantia, I'm not exactly sure who made it, could have been Magnus or possibly Auriel, maybe all the Aedra helped.

      Akatosh's vessel planted itself into Nirn and became the AdamantineTower, also known as Ada-mantia or Ur-Tower, and it was on this first tower that the Convention took plac - Nu-Mantia Intercept, Letter #4

      And yea, Aka was me having a bad brain I realized it was Anuiel

      I know that some people like to see Ada-Mantia as a spaceship that Auriel flew to Nirn. As for Aka being Anuiel, I don't think that is true.

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    • The hero of the old sheograth is the most powerful of all, despite being capable of driving anything with though mad, he was given the powers of sheograth himself and originated from the realm of Nirn, now because he is from nirn it means he is allowed to travel freely between the two realms. He is truly not a true deadra, but and entinty of one that was cursed and took on the curse. alduin is also one of the most powerful being, capable of devouring the nirn. he is truly immortal only capable of being killed by one who is dragonborn, not deadra or aedra, if he were to devour nirn and sovengard, he could easily devour deadra making him more powerful.

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    • I'd say that this list doesn't even come close. The heros of the elder scrolls are the strongest, and I'd say they are all roughly equal.

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    • Anu>Anuiel>Aka (possibly Aka-Tusk). This is the sub-gradient path of Anu. The other side is Padomay>Sithis>Lorkhan. Both Aka and Lorkhan got shattered in some way.

      Two Towers were created by gods, as has been stated. Adamantine Tower and Red Mountain. The other Towers were created by mer in hopes of mimicking Auriel and achieving divinity (he walked the 1st Way). However, they built the Towers "upside down" in a metaphysical sense and instead of pushing towards divinity it instead reaffirmed mortality. You could think of them as roots that plant themselves in reality to help stabilize Mundus.

      Convention is the Zero-Stone, the stone for Ada-Mantia. Talos is thought of as Convention 2.0 sometimes in that he may have taken over as the stone, he mantled Lorkhan, he took the place of the Missing God, and he became the force that holds Mundus together. Regardless of the power level of these beings, Talos is by far the most important. This list, by the way, is Kirkbride's. This list is the closest we'll probably ever get to accurate.

      The deactivation of the Snow-throat is up in the air. No one can quite agree on when it was deactivated or what its stone, The Cave, actually is. Basically the argument: the Dragonborn prophecy talks about it being deactivated. The other side: The prophecy says it's bleeding, not gone, and in all of the other TES games the Prisoner is responsible for the deactivation of the tower.

      The Khajiit tower being deactivated comes from the fact that the Mane was assassinated.

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    • Nobody has done a very good job at explaining the Anu - Padomey - Sithis - Anuiel - Godhead complications, and I totally get why. The lore surrounding these beings is rigged with paradoxes and confusion.

      The godhead is the "dreamer" of the elder scrolls universe. Essentially, he is like the little kid from the Lego movie who makes up the whole story without the characters knowing it. The whole TES universe is his "dream" but he has no conscious control over it because he is asleep. Still he is incredibly powerful, since he has the ability to create the universe and can destroy it just by waking up. One who achieves CHIM realizes that they're in a dream, but has the stubbornness to insist that he or she actually exists. They can then manipulate the dream anyway they want.

      Anu is the embodiment of light and creation while Padomey is the embodiment of chaos and destruction. They exist inside the Godhead's dream but outside Atherius, Oblivion, Mundus or any known realm. According to Michael Kirkblade, Anu achieved the step above Chim known as Ameranth. When you achieve Ameranth, you fall asleep forever and create a universe within your dream, within the godhead's dream universe. Atherius, oblivion and Mundus exist within Anu's dream while Padomey and Anu are the only two beings who exist outside it.

      The existence of Anuiel and Sithis is up for debate. I personally don't think they exist. Supposedly Anu created a version of himself within his own dream (Anuiel) but he also created a version of his "brother" Padomey (Sithis) whom he hated. Also, Anuiel and Sithis supposedly did absolutely nothing But create they're own little avatars. Sithis created Lorkhan and Anuiel created Akatosh. Anyways, only the Bosmer and Altmer believe they exist. Nobody else does.

      As for who is the most powerful, I have a list of the top 10

      1) Akatosh

      2) Lorkhan (before he was destroyed)

      3) Jygilag

      4) Clavicus Vile

      5) Arkey

      6) Mehrundes Dagon

      7) Molag Bal

      8) Mara

      9) Talos

      10) Singuine

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    • Anuiel didn't create Akatosh, from him birthed time who is Aka (or possibly Aka-Tusk). Aka shattered creating the time gods we know now. Akatosh wasn't created until the 1st era when Shor and Auri-El were myth-slapped together (although as time gods go sometime, he was retroactively created).

      In your list Lorkhan is #2 but Talos is 9? Talos is Lorkhan and he is also partly Akatosh. You can't have Lorkhan be #2 and then also #9.

      This OP's posted list is from Kirkbride. Even though he said it's hard to really say what's what in the power battle, his list is far more believable than any I've ever seen.

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    • 99.173.49.137 wrote: I'd say that this list doesn't even come close. The heros of the elder scrolls are the strongest, and I'd say they are all roughly equal.

      In a way this is absolutely true. The Prison has free will and choice and can alter and shape the world as he chooses.

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    • Sothas wrote:

      99.173.49.137 wrote: I'd say that this list doesn't even come close. The heros of the elder scrolls are the strongest, and I'd say they are all roughly equal.

      In a way this is absolutely true. The Prison has free will and choice and can alter and shape the world as he chooses.

      Nope. The hero can never go to a toilet, never fly backwards while riding a rabbit head and eating hie/her own hands, never sing about the flying color of Canevnspel in the halls of Nintendo.

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    • None of the above. The strongest thing in all of TES is Numinduim with no contest. He has the ability to erase entire races with the flick of a finger, and doesn't risk waking the godhead because of his origin being neither of their branches.

      The second, is Alduin, because he ends the Kalpic cycle, and has killed EACH of those deities countless times, excluding maybe Talos, who may be new to the Kalpic cycle.

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    • Thing is, Vivec and Tiber have CHIM, can Alduin's Kalpa abilities override THAT? 

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote: Thing is, Vivec and Tiber have CHIM, can Alduin's Kalpa abilities override THAT? 

      Except the fact that he erased everything? Are you seriously asking? CHIM is useless against Alduin. 1) If they were to use it to defeat him (somehow_ it would wake the Godhead, and kill everyone. Even them. 2) When in Kalpa-eating form, he isn't even a deity anymore. Think of one mass eating other, or a shadow taking away light. That's as close as we can get to knowing. He is untouchable by anything but Numinduim.

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    • For what I know of CHIM it makes the person literally unstoppable, are you saying this is not the case?

      Also, how do you know the Godhead would be "wake up"? Can it even wake up? Like, how do we know

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote: For what I know of CHIM it makes the person literally unstoppable, are you saying this is not the case?

      Also, how do you know the Godhead would be "wake up"? Can it even wake up? Like, how do we know

      CHIM doesn't make you unstopable. In fact, Tiber Septim was killed after achieving CHIM, supposedly by Vivec.

      The Godhead can wake up, and that is why Aedra do not intervene in Mundas too much. They fear doing just that.

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    • Zippertrain85 wrote:
      For what I know of CHIM it makes the person literally unstoppable, are you saying this is not the case?

      Also, how do you know the Godhead would be "wake up"? Can it even wake up? Like, how do we know

      CHIM makes the CHIMster a lucid dreamer.

      And yes, it can wake up. The dangers of CHIM are mentioned several times. 

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    • The Aedra simply are for creation therefor change is not in their nature. That is why they don't intervene most times on Nirn 

      Well, considering how little we know about the Godhead, it might still be iffy, but I did hear about erasing yourself from existence, nothing about waking someone up though. Also, I assumed Tiber simply grew old...

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    • Y'all motherfuckers need Sithis XD

      Sorry, could't resist.

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    • Vivec killed Tiber to help him realize CHIM. Numidium was defeated by a Nerevarine.

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    • ShawnHowellsCP wrote:

      Except the fact that he erased everything? Are you seriously asking? CHIM is useless against Alduin. 1) If they were to use it to defeat him (somehow_ it would wake the Godhead, and kill everyone. Even them.

      Source?

      "Why would such a creature want to wake up? Or even want to control the world? Why would it want to destroy anything?

      This is a misunderstanding of the Godhead's nature."

      -Kirkbride talking about the Godhead

      ShawnHowellsCP wrote:

      CHIM doesn't make you unstopable. In fact, Tiber Septim was killed after achieving CHIM, supposedly by Vivec.

      Tiber was more than likely killed before achieving CHIM by Vivec.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      ShawnHowellsCP wrote:

      Except the fact that he erased everything? Are you seriously asking? CHIM is useless against Alduin. 1) If they were to use it to defeat him (somehow_ it would wake the Godhead, and kill everyone. Even them.

      Source?

      "Why would such a creature want to wake up? Or even want to control the world? Why would it want to destroy anything?

      This is a misunderstanding of the Godhead's nature."

      -Kirkbride talking about the Godhead

      ShawnHowellsCP wrote:

      CHIM doesn't make you unstopable. In fact, Tiber Septim was killed after achieving CHIM, supposedly by Vivec.

      Tiber was more than likely killed before achieving CHIM by Vivec.

      If he was killed before achieving CHIM, then he wouldn't have replaced Lorkhan on the pantheon.

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    • ShawnHowellsCP wrote:

      If he was killed before achieving CHIM, then he wouldn't have replaced Lorkhan on the pantheon.

      Partial Interview with Vivec heavily implies that Vivec killed Tiber some point surrounding the time period in which Vivec and Tiber created their armistice, possibly in a separate timeline. Tiber's death at the hands of Vivec obviously wasn't permanent, Vivec was probably trying to demonstrate something to him.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      ShawnHowellsCP wrote:

      If he was killed before achieving CHIM, then he wouldn't have replaced Lorkhan on the pantheon.

      Partial Interview with Vivec heavily implies that Vivec killed Tiber some point surrounding the time period in which Vivec and Tiber created their armistice, possibly in a separate timeline. Tiber's death at the hands of Vivec obviously wasn't permanent, Vivec was probably trying to demonstrate something to him.

      Power of Resurrection, or a show of his strength? That could be a topic for a whole other conversation line.

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    • Sorry, I'm really out of touch with terminology, but what's CHIM?

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    • A Hungry Bandit wrote: Sorry, I'm really out of touch with terminology, but what's CHIM?

      CHIM is the act of realizing the universe is just a dream by the Godhead, and that you still have your individuality. A slip up during this act can cause one to zero-sum, I.E. be erased from existence without a trace of ever existing.

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    • I would disagree on the without a trace bit. There's evidence of a moth priest zero summing.

      But yes, CHIM is true Love of self. It's a bit more complicated but I'd start googling or head over to /r/teslore where it is frequently talked about and also in their FAQ.

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    • Sothas wrote: I would disagree on the without a trace bit. There's evidence of a moth priest zero summing.

      But yes, CHIM is true Love of self. It's a bit more complicated but I'd start googling or head over to /r/teslore where it is request lyrics talked about and also in their FAQ.

      Lorkhan also zero-summed without zero-summing. He zero-summed but still existed. These two cases are simply exceptions.

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    • ShawnHowellsCP wrote:
      Power of Resurrection, or a show of his strength? That could be a topic for a whole other conversation line.

      I believe this line from 36 Lessons of Vivec, Sermon 13 may be referring to this.

      "If there is to be an end I must be removed. The ruling king must know this, and I will test him. I will murder him time and again until he knows this."

      ShawnHowellsCP wrote:
      Lorkhan also zero-summed without zero-summing. He zero-summed but still existed. These two cases are simply exceptions.

      Lorkhan did not Zero Sum. His consciousness was doomed to the Void.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      ShawnHowellsCP wrote:
      Power of Resurrection, or a show of his strength? That could be a topic for a whole other conversation line.

      I believe this line from 36 Lessons of Vivec, Sermon 13 may be referring to this.

      "If there is to be an end I must be removed. The ruling king must know this, and I will test him. I will murder him time and again until he knows this."

      ShawnHowellsCP wrote:
      Lorkhan also zero-summed without zero-summing. He zero-summed but still existed. These two cases are simply exceptions.

      Lorkhan did not Zero Sum. His consciousness was doomed to the Void.

      He showed what would happen if one would fail to achieve CHIM , without fully doing it. Semi-Zero-Summing is a blatant term for that, as I can find.

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    • ShawnHowellsCP wrote:

      CHIM is the act of realizing the universe is just a dream by the Godhead, and that you still have your individuality. A slip up during this act can cause one to zero-sum, I.E. be erased from existence without a trace of ever existing.

      But some people refer to a CHIM as if it were a physical object

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    • A Hungry Bandit wrote:

      ShawnHowellsCP wrote:

      CHIM is the act of realizing the universe is just a dream by the Godhead, and that you still have your individuality. A slip up during this act can cause one to zero-sum, I.E. be erased from existence without a trace of ever existing.

      But some people refer to a CHIM as if it were a physical object

      When I say achieve CHIM, I mean completing the act successfully.

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    • Sothas wrote: Anuiel didn't create Akatosh, from him birthed time who is Aka Bold text(or possibly Aka-Tusk). Aka shattered creating the time gods we know now. Akatosh wasn't created until the 1st era

      In your list Lorkhan is #2 but Talos is 9? Talos is Lorkhan and he is also partly Akatosh. You can't have Lorkhan be #2 and then also #9.

      This OP's posted list is from Kirkbride. Even though he said it's hard to really say what's what in the power battle, his list is far more believable than any I've ever seen.

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    • Talos is NOT Lorkhan, that's Thalmor propaganda. There is absolutely no evidence that Talos is lorkhan's aviator or the reancarnation of Lorkhan.

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    • Also, Akatosh wasn't created during the first era, he was created way back in the dawn era, before any of the other gods or Daedra were (or Et'Ada if you want the more correct term)

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    • 71.248.190.66 wrote:
      Talos is NOT Lorkhan, that's Thalmor propaganda. There is absolutely no evidence that Talos is lorkhan's aviator or the reancarnation of Lorkhan.

      "Jubal looks over at Talos, who has become Lorkhan"

      -C0DA

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    • Thanks, not home and can't link. Also right before that Jubal is being a dick to Akatosh and Talos and Kyne tells him he's being rude to the god of time and the god of space who she is wife to. Obviously god of time is Akatosh and she is wife to Lorkhan, god of space, but Jubal was talking to Talos. So... yeah.

      Talos mantles Lorkhan. Also, Talos is a Shezarrine.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      71.248.190.66 wrote:
      Talos is NOT Lorkhan, that's Thalmor propaganda. There is absolutely no evidence that Talos is lorkhan's aviator or the reancarnation of Lorkhan.

      "Jubal looks over at Talos, who has become Lorkhan"

      -C0DA

      It's not literal. He replaces him on the pantheon.

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    • The fact that pretty much the entire concept of C0DA has been commonly accepted as a giant metaphor for debunking canon also comes to thought.

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    • COMMONLY accepted as a metaphor for debunking canon? I've never seen anyone use it to debunk anything. It answers a ton of questions and gives serious weight to multiple theories and other less known bits, like what happened to the dwemer, the moons being the body of Lorkhan, thr Amaranth, and many others. It was written by the developer that is largely responsible for creating the metaphysics of TES and also the guy who created Lorkhan. If he says Talos became Lorkhan, who was his creation, then it's safe to assume that Talos is Lorkhan.

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    • ShawnHowellsCP wrote:
      It's not literal. He replaces him on the pantheon.

      It's quite literal. Talos is, for all intents and purposes, Lorkhan reborn. Don't forget that the entities that amalgamated into Talos were all originally avatars of Lorkhan.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      ShawnHowellsCP wrote:
      It's not literal. He replaces him on the pantheon.

      It's quite literal. Talos is, for all intents and purposes, Lorkhan reborn. Don't forget that the entities that amalgamated into Talos were all originally avatars of Lorkhan.

      Very true. It should have occurred to me sooner. We've seen Pelinal and pals as Aka shards, so possibilities away.

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    • Sothas wrote: COMMONLY accepted as a metaphor for debunking canon? I've never seen anyone use it to debunk anything. It answers a ton of questions and gives serious weight to multiple theories and other less known bits, like what happened to the dwemer, the moons being the body of Lorkhan, thr Amaranth, and many others. It was written by the developer that is largely responsible for creating the metaphysics of TES and also the guy who created Lorkhan. If he says Talos became Lorkhan, who was his creation, then it's safe to assume that Talos is Lorkhan.

      I know all of this. Thanks for the run-down. MK has used PLENTY of metaphors in his work. Go to any forum, and people debate constantly over it.

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    • So I still don't understand how it's used to debunk established lore.

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    • Sothas wrote: So I still don't understand how it's used to debunk established lore.

      Everything the man writes is disputed. All of it. We still fight over Godhead and CHIM constantly, and those were mentioned in game. It's up to you to choose if you accept his works as canon. It is pretty simple.

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    • Dovahsebrom wrote:

      71.248.190.66 wrote:
      Talos is NOT Lorkhan, that's Thalmor propaganda. There is absolutely no evidence that Talos is lorkhan's aviator or the reancarnation of Lorkhan.

      "Jubal looks over at Talos, who has become Lorkhan"


      -C0DA

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    • CODA, CODA is terrible

      Elves living on the moon, Vivec being alive, another neruverene, the tosh raka as an amerenth, the time traveling robot, the Numidium somehow being in tact and destroying Nirn.

      Oh please, what's next, Tamriel is invaded by aliens!

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    • 72.74.78.185 wrote: CODA, CODA is terrible

      Elves living on the moon, Vivec being alive, another neruverene, the tosh raka as an amerenth, the time traveling robot, the Numidium somehow being in tact and destroying Nirn.

      Oh please, what's next, Tamriel is invaded by aliens!

      Vivec may still be alive in-game. All we know is he dissapeared. Landfall, the apocalyptic even on Nirn, is hinted at being closer in game bu the Thalmor's accomplishments. Time Traveling robots are in game. Pelinal Whitestreak was a cyborg, and we MET his. Also, Eye of Magnus may be KINMUNE, another time traveling robot. It is the same nerevarine. Elves can live very long times. Numidium survived do to a dragonbreak, were he went into a pocket realm. The dwarf in Morrowind also was in one, before.

      All the stuff you hate about C0DA are crucial sections of Elder Scrolls lore, and are in-game.

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    • Yeah man, all C0DA does is clarify things. There's all that nothing new in it save for the birth of the Flower Child, who we new about before if I remember correctly.

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    • c0da is plain BS sci-fi attemt that kirkwhatshisname even got fired so no point accepting that crap as cannon

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    • TES was always a little sci-fi.

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    • 176.43.109.144 wrote: c0da is plain BS sci-fi attemt that kirkwhatshisname even got fired so no point accepting that crap as cannon

      1) C0da hasn't been said as false by bethesda 2) Kirkbride didn'tget fired 3) It is 4)TES has always been tsuedo-sci-fi. Eye of Magnus in Skyrim? Remnant of a time traveling mining spaceship called KINMUNE. Pelinal Whitestreak who we've met in Oblivion? time traveling cyborg from the future sent to assure a path was taken. Learn lore.

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    • Anu/Sithis, the one who created everything.       

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    • Anu and Sithis are not the same sub-gradient. That would be Anu/Padomay and Anui-El/Sithis. Anui-El and Sithis are the Aurbical representations of Anu and Padomay. Their "souls" within, or more specifically, as the Aurbis. They are not beings. They're more like physics.

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    • Putting aside MK crap...

      1) Akatosh

      2) Sithis

      3) Talos (who by the way is absolutally posativally NOT LORKHAN)

      4) Mara

      5) Clavicus Vile

      6) Mehrundes Dagon

      7) Molag Bal

      8) Sanguine

      9) Hoongig/Hoonding/Hundog (one of those things, you know what i mean)

      10) Kyraneth

      11) Alduin

      12) Vaermina

      13) Sheogorath

      14) Azura

      15) Trinimac

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    • 72.74.78.185 wrote:
      Putting aside MK crap...

      1) Akatosh

      2) Sithis

      3) Talos (who by the way is absolutally posativally NOT LORKHAN)

      4) Mara

      5) Clavicus Vile

      6) Mehrundes Dagon

      7) Molag Bal

      8) Sanguine

      9) Hoongig/Hoonding/Hundog (one of those things, you know what i mean)

      10) Kyraneth

      11) Alduin

      12) Vaermina

      13) Sheogorath

      14) Azura

      15) Trinimac

      Talos mantled Lorkhan.

      Talos is, by all means, Lorkhan.

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    • Manteling is not becoming. It is the act of becoming so similar to the other entety that the universe fails to tell the difference between the two and the origenal one (Lorkhan) is destroyed. Anyways, just because several bethesda employees have confirmed that this process exists doesn't mean Talos mantled Lorkhan. He was absolutaly nothing like him. He used the Numidium to destroy Alinor to avoid losing countless imperial lives in the invasion of the Aldmeri Dominion. While many poeple died, he still had good intentions and legitamently cared about his troops. Lorkhan (supposedly) was a huge jerk and bound the gods to Nirn so they would become weaker and so that he would rule the Aurbis for himself. Talos wanted to conquor Tamriel so that the land could have peace and everyone, reguardless of race or ethnicity, could prosper. He became a god because Akatosh was so impressed by his actions on Nirn that he made him a god (and also according to MK he achieved CHIM). See, you can dissagree with me all you want because you can have you're own opinions about everything, but this is why i lothe MK lore so much. In adition to saying that Talos is Lorkhan, he also hints that Talos is not Tiber Septem but a combenation of Wulfharth, Zurin Aractus, Ysmer (The same person as Tiber Septem), Tiber Septem and Lorkhan, that Sheogorath and Jyggilag are aspects of Lorkhan and, worse still by a factor i cannot even begin to comprehend, that the last Dragonborn is a Shezarine. I don't want my character, the hero of Skyrim, the Haarbingaar of the companions, the arch mage of Winterhold and the Slayer of Alduin is the reencarnation of Lorkhan, and going even further back Sithis and Padomey, the most evil beings/entities in the universe. And don't even get me started on C0DA. 

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    • Look, i know that MK contributed so much to TES lore when he worked for Bethesda. But we have the choise to believe weather or not his stuff is true. I choose not to. What i'm sick of his everyone acting like there is absolutaly no way whatsoever that it isn't a hugely important part of TES and acting like i'm some sort of heratic because i refuse to believe in the rightings of his omniponent magesty. And yes, i know the wiki accepts it as cannon but has it ever occured to anyone that everyone who has a computer can edit it?

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    • By it, i mean the lore he wrote after he stoped working there for whatever reason. Not his Bethesda stuff.

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    • 72.74.78.185 wrote:
      Manteling is not becoming. It is the act of becoming so similar to the other entety that the universe fails to tell the difference between the two and the origenal one (Lorkhan) is destroyed.

      Well, you're kind of right. The original one is not "destroyed", as can be seen with the Tribunal and their mantling of the Three Good Daedra.

      72.74.78.185 wrote:
      Anyways, just because several bethesda employees have confirmed that this process exists doesn't mean Talos mantled Lorkhan. He was absolutaly nothing like him.

      I imagine if a god's soul was incarnated on Nirn in three forms that each amalgamated together, the resulting product would be quite similar to the original god.

      72.74.78.185 wrote:
      Lorkhan (supposedly) was a huge jerk and bound the gods to Nirn so they would become weaker and so that he would rule the Aurbis for himself.

      Well, if you want to believe in the Aldmeri lies of Lorkhan, sure. Lorkhan was a jerk who just wanted to kill off all the Adas who sided with Anuiel.

      Or, you could look into the truth, in which Lorkhan created Mundus as a way for Adas to be diced into mortals and given the ability to break their limitations and transcend to levels of existence far beyond their original forms (i.e CHIM (which is based in in-game lore by the way)).

      72.74.78.185 wrote:
      He used the Numidium to destroy Alinor to avoid losing countless imperial lives in the invasion of the Aldmeri Dominion

      That wasn't the only thing he used Numidium for.

      "Septim began using Numidium to crush the neutral royal families of Tamriel so that he could enthrone only persons he knew to be loyal"

      -Anonymous Letters

      72.74.78.185 wrote:
      What i'm sick of his everyone acting like there is absolutaly no way whatsoever that it isn't a hugely important part of TES and acting like i'm some sort of heratic because i refuse to believe in the rightings of his omniponent magesty.

      And that's all fine and dandy, but when you say things like "CODA, CODA is terrible", you're basically calling us heretics as well.

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    • M'iaq is obviously the most powerful. He just trash-talks the rest as they struggle to keep up.

      "M'iaq thinks you are all weak people. Why does M'iaq think this? Because M'iaq beat you all."

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    • Technically TODD HOWARD is the most powerfull being in the TES Universe as he is the game Director of Bethesda game studio, if he don't like a thing........ he can just wipe them up by ordering his crew. LOL

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    • Those M'aiq and Todd Howard jokes are getting repetitive and old. Not to mention they count as spam.

      Stop with them.

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    • It's not like I haven't read C0DA. I read it and found it made less sense than Septimus Signus's mumblings about the elder scrolls. I'm not going to get into it because I don't want to start a flame war.

      Anyways, In in game lore, Akatosh allowed Talos to ascend into he an and become the ninth Devine. Akatosh is the reason Talos exists as a Devine. He is the essence of time itself. Without time, nothing can happen or even exist (either that or the whole world would be a never ending dragon break. Even if CHIM exists, Talos had to have given up his powers to become a god because gods cannot be CHIMsters. Akatosh is responsible for the creation of all the spirits in the Aurbis. He is like Anu accept conscious. Alduin, who has the capability to consume all of Nirn and a fairly large chunk of Atherius (sovernguard) is only a fraction of his power. Wow. Just wow.

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    • About the other ones

      Sithis is the second most powerful because he began creation, though Akatosh is the most powerful as long as creation exists since Sithis is change and change cannot take place without time.

      Talos is a god AND a Dragonborn. He is the Lord of Mundus and the force that is holding it all together. He may also have achieved CHIM too but he can't use it as long as he is a deity.

      Love is he most powerful emotion you can feel, so I suppose Mars should come in fourth. Also she has dated Akatosh, and Talos, two of the most powerful beings in the universe. I don't blame her for not dating Sithis though. Yuck!

      Clavicus vile knows EVERYTHING, past present and future. He knows what everyone is doing, can do, will do and has done. Therefore he is impossible to outsmart. But he lacks in actual physical power.

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    • 71.248.190.66 wrote:
      About the other ones

      Sithis is the second most powerful because he began creation, though Akatosh is the most powerful as long as creation exists since Sithis is change and change cannot take place without time.

      Talos is a god AND a Dragonborn. He is the Lord of Mundus and the force that is holding it all together. He may also have achieved CHIM too but he can't use it as long as he is a deity.

      Love is he most powerful emotion you can feel, so I suppose Mars should come in fourth. Also she has dated Akatosh, and Talos, two of the most powerful beings in the universe. I don't blame her for not dating Sithis though. Yuck!

      Clavicus vile knows EVERYTHING, past present and future. He knows what everyone is doing, can do, will do and has done. Therefore he is impossible to outsmart. But he lacks in actual physical power.

      1. No, Sithis isn't a being. Sithis is the Aurbical representation of Padomay. Sithis is math. Think of him like you would physics.

      2. Talos is a lot more than that. Talos is Lorkhan. He is a Dragonborn Shezarrine and mantled Lorkhan. He is the single most powerful being in all the Aurbis. Also, he absolutely can use CHIM while ascended. What gives you the idea that he can't?

      3. There is so much wrong about this. No, just all of it is no.

      4. Do you mean Mora?

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    • 72.74.78.185 wrote:
      Manteling is not becoming. It is the act of becoming so similar to the other entety that the universe fails to tell the difference between the two and the origenal one (Lorkhan) is destroyed. Anyways, just because several bethesda employees have confirmed that this process exists doesn't mean Talos mantled Lorkhan. He was absolutaly nothing like him. He used the Numidium to destroy Alinor to avoid losing countless imperial lives in the invasion of the Aldmeri Dominion. While many poeple died, he still had good intentions and legitamently cared about his troops. Lorkhan (supposedly) was a huge jerk and bound the gods to Nirn so they would become weaker and so that he would rule the Aurbis for himself. Talos wanted to conquor Tamriel so that the land could have peace and everyone, reguardless of race or ethnicity, could prosper. He became a god because Akatosh was so impressed by his actions on Nirn that he made him a god (and also according to MK he achieved CHIM). See, you can dissagree with me all you want because you can have you're own opinions about everything, but this is why i lothe MK lore so much. In adition to saying that Talos is Lorkhan, he also hints that Talos is not Tiber Septem but a combenation of Wulfharth, Zurin Aractus, Ysmer (The same person as Tiber Septem), Tiber Septem and Lorkhan, that Sheogorath and Jyggilag are aspects of Lorkhan and, worse still by a factor i cannot even begin to comprehend, that the last Dragonborn is a Shezarine. I don't want my character, the hero of Skyrim, the Haarbingaar of the companions, the arch mage of Winterhold and the Slayer of Alduin is the reencarnation of Lorkhan, and going even further back Sithis and Padomey, the most evil beings/entities in the universe. And don't even get me started on C0DA. 

      I literally can't even...

      Where to being. I guess i'll just start at the top.

      Mantling is absolutly becoming. If the universe can't distinguish one being from another, they are, for all intents and purposes, the same being. In every instance of anyone mantling anyone, they lose their identity and become that being. Arden Sul -> Sheogorath, CoC -> Arden Sul (Sheogorath), for example. Talos mantled Lorkhan. Lorkhan didn't go anywhere, he was dead (missing). The reason Talos remained Talos and didn't become Lorkhan is due to CHIM. This is not "according to MK." He was just the first to inform us of this. Heimskr's speach proves it as it is directly taken from From The Many-Headed Talos. "'You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"

      Lorkhan wasn't a jerk, or maybe he was. This depends on your point of view, be it Mer, or Man. Man revere him as their creator deity. To them he is a hero and the creator of their race. Also, Kyne was pretty fond of him. They were lovers.

      Here's a list of things MK never said that you say he did, or at least the idea doesn't originate from him.

      So let's start these two sentences with - MK never said...

      ...Sheogorath and Jygg were aspects of Lorkhan. The idea that Sheogorath contains Lorkhan's divine spark originates from Oblivion... the game.

      ...The LDB is a Shezarrine. (Which btw makes a lot of sense. He is a hero of man, and a Dragonborn. Dragonborn are often (re: almost always) Shezzarine as Akatosh is partly Lorkhan being the god of Spacetime). Btw, that last bit's also not MK lore.

      Let's also talk about Sithis/Padomay. These beings are NOT evil. Sithis is the Aurbical representation of Padomay. Sithis is science, math, physics. Sithis disorder. Chaos is not inherently evil. Chaos is creation. Lorkhan is the birthed soul and physical representation of Sithis within the Aurbis. It was Lorkhan's plan to create life so that life may create more life and eventually birth a New Amaranth. Please tell me how this is evil.

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    • Pelinal Whitestrake wrote:
      Those M'aiq and Todd Howard jokes are getting repetitive and old. Not to mention they count as spam.

      Stop with them.

      ohouuu.... so you think my joke is overused hah.

      well guess what brother, i haven't seen anyone using it around here. (bah forget it....)

      anyway if everyone on this forum believe that the &#$*ing CHIM is real, doesn't that mean Vivec and Tiber Septim is what we're referring in this debate ?

      also fine then,  i'll stop with them Mr.Spammerhead

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    • Dear lord! I'm sorry for whatever I said Sothas. Please don't through your device out the window in frustration. At this point I think I should just leave the chat before it gets any uglier and also seeing as though everyone thinks I'm an idiot.

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    • Look. Can we agree to disagree. We all live in a free country and can believe whatever the hell we want. If i don't like MK lore, that's fine. If you all love it, that's also fine. 

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    • I say Akatosh, god of time must be god above all. Destroy time = destroy universe.

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    • And now, who or what is the most weak being in TES universe

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    • 213.192.26.58 wrote:
      And now, who or what is the most weak being in TES universe

      Fargoth.

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    • 213.192.26.58 wrote:
      And now, who or what is the most weak being in TES universe

      Heimskr's fan club?

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    • Mudcrabs.

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