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  • So I was looking through the Talos page today, and I found a note that said he made an appearance in  Morrowind as his avatar "Wulf". Interested, I looked over Wulf's page and found that he made a very interesting quote during the events of Morrowind:

    "The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."

    What does everyone think about this? Talos hasn't exactly been protecting the Empire from falling apart. Could the events of Skyrim be heralding in this premonition into coming true?

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    • Aye, honestly I see the closing days of the Empire coming. All this with the Dominion and Skyrim they can't handle especially with the Septim bloodline being gone. Don't get me wrong, if you read about the Mede family their good, at another time they might have been able to fix it, but right now there's not much they can do. I think we'll see major changes in the next game. Also, I hadn't read all that ^ before, kudos.

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    • Probably. I'm guessing that the Mede Empire is the last Empire on Tamriel.

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    • It really strikes me as odd though. Did Talos actually know that Uriel was going to be the last Emperor (and I mean last as in the last that led the Empire. Martin doesn't count since he died before he had the chance to take the throne and lead)? Talos is supposed to be portrayed as the protector of civil society and just rulership, maybe he just doesn't see that in the Empire anymore.

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    • It is important to remember that the Empire Talos referred to did end with the Septim Dynasty, by and large. What we have left is the Byzantine equivalent to the old Roman Empire. In a sense, we are witnessing the new change already. 

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    • "The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty." - Wulf(Talos aspect) Just note to my interpretation. Wulf is an aspect of Talos, the original Talos in nordic pantheon is Ysmir, talos is the oversouls. Ysmir was also Wulfharth. Wulf / Harth < Wulf aspect of Talos. Wulf must be abbreviation to Wulfharth that is one of the oversouls that form the deity know as Talos. I don't believe in the acturian heresy, as far as i know anyone can write a book saying that it was the underking so is not really acurate. Another thing that i want to say a long time xD I don't believe that Ulfric use the Thu'um in a wrong way. The way of the voice teach us that the thu'um must be used in worship of the divines, Ulfric use in the name of Talos who in turn is a divine, hence why talos bleasing give fortify shout. I think, just my opinion

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    • Personally, I believe that this is the end of the Imperial Empire. The wheels now turn on the next most powerful force in Tamriel... 

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    • The true Empire died with Martin Septim 200 years ago. The Mede Empire is a joke compared to Uriel VII,Talos and Martin.

      Perhaps Wulf/Tiber Septim forsaw the future of the septims.Mabye he knew that in 6 short years,the Septim bloodline would end,and so accepted it and decided to speak of it to the Nerrevarine

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    • I think it is, the Empire's only real goal was to close the gates of Oblivion, with that done, the Empire fufilled it's destiny. Wulf may have been implying that in the future. Just as the Old Orc said, something living past it's usefulness is a waste of time & energy. 

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    • I think it was more than that. I think the Empire was necessary to give stability and peace to a continent on the brink of self-destruction. If the ten seperate nations were to survive together, they would need to unify. The Septim Empire brought peace and prosperity to Tamriel, and kept the different sides from killing eachother. But truly believe in what the Prophet said in Elder Scrolls Online: "By long tradition, only a Dragonborn can rightfully claim the throne." Or atleast a descendant of Alessia. Since that bloodline has ended, as far as we know anyway, the Empire is doomed to fail.

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    • 196.210.131.9 wrote:
      The true Empire died with Martin Septim 200 years ago. The Mede Empire is a joke compared to Uriel VII,Talos and Martin.


      Perhaps Wulf/Tiber Septim forsaw the future of the septims.Mabye he knew that in 6 short years,the Septim bloodline would end,and so accepted it and decided to speak of it to the Nerrevarine

      Yes Martin was my favorite character in the whole series and I wish I could see him in the future as an apparition of some sort.

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    • Dark Jeto wrote: I think it was more than that. I think the Empire was necessary to give stability and peace to a continent on the brink of self-destruction. If the ten seperate nations were to survive together, they would need to unify. The Septim Empire brought peace and prosperity to Tamriel, and kept the different sides from killing eachother. But truly believe in what the Prophet said in Elder Scrolls Online: "By long tradition, only a Dragonborn can rightfully claim the throne." Or atleast a descendant of Alessia. Since that bloodline has ended, as far as we know anyway, the Empire is doomed to fail.

      Tiber Septim wasn't related to Alessia, he was just a Dragonborn that popped up. Even though the Last Dragonborn is called that we don't know if he will truly be the very last Dragonborn, especially since Bethesda can retcon that at any time. Zenimax has already retconed the CHIM. And Bethesda has retconed Alessia being the first Dragonborn with the introduction of Miraak.

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    • 50.149.81.197 wrote: It is important to remember that the Empire Talos referred to did end with the Septim Dynasty, by and large. What we have left is the Byzantine equivalent to the old Roman Empire. In a sense, we are witnessing the new change already. 

      The Byzantine Empire is just another name for the Eastern Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was split in two, Western and Eastern. The Western fell to the barbarians while the Eastern became the Byzantine. They lasted for another 1000 years before falling to the Ottoman Empire. The Western Roman Empire was succeeded by the Holy Roman Empire.

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    • 196.210.131.9 wrote: The true Empire died with Martin Septim 200 years ago. The Mede Empire is a joke compared to Uriel VII,Talos and Martin.

      Perhaps Wulf/Tiber Septim forsaw the future of the septims.Mabye he knew that in 6 short years,the Septim bloodline would end,and so accepted it and decided to speak of it to the Nerrevarine

      Martin never actually ruled. The most he did was lead the Legions against the Daedra.

      The "Mede Empire" doesn't exist, as the Mede Dynasty still rule the Third Empire( which was created by Tiber Septim.). The Medes may not be "good" Emperors, but they are good Generals. What Titus II accomplished in the Battle of the Red Ring was impressive, probably the best battle the Empire fought in all its history.

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    • I imagine Talos forsaw the end of his line in a mere 6 years...Imagine what he would say now seeing the empire sell out its own citizens to buy a momentary peace.

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    • Pelinal Whitestrake
      Pelinal Whitestrake removed this reply because:
      Totally unrelated to the topic, potential Flame War begin
      11:59, April 17, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • Please do not turn this thread into a Flame War or Civil War discussion.

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    • What strikes me as odd, is that as Tiber Septim he was destined to unite all of Tamriel under the Empire. So what then could have made him so suddenly despondent with his legacy? Did he see the Septim bloodline coming to an end, or was it even before that?

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    • Dark Jeto wrote:
      What strikes me as odd, is that as Tiber Septim he was destined to unite all of Tamriel under the Empire. So what then could have made him so suddenly despondent with his legacy? Did he see the Septim bloodline coming to an end, or was it even before that?


      Well, Talos isn't exactly Tiber Septim anymore. Maybe Talos just doesn't really care about it.

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    • Dark Jeto wrote:
      What strikes me as odd, is that as Tiber Septim he was destined to unite all of Tamriel under the Empire. So what then could have made him so suddenly despondent with his legacy? Did he see the Septim bloodline coming to an end, or was it even before that?

      Maybe he saw the empire take their integrity and flush it straight down the toilet?

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    • Harold Burned-Mane wrote:

      Dark Jeto wrote: I think it was more than that. I think the Empire was necessary to give stability and peace to a continent on the brink of self-destruction. If the ten seperate nations were to survive together, they would need to unify. The Septim Empire brought peace and prosperity to Tamriel, and kept the different sides from killing eachother. But truly believe in what the Prophet said in Elder Scrolls Online: "By long tradition, only a Dragonborn can rightfully claim the throne." Or atleast a descendant of Alessia. Since that bloodline has ended, as far as we know anyway, the Empire is doomed to fail.

      Tiber Septim wasn't related to Alessia, he was just a Dragonborn that popped up. Even though the Last Dragonborn is called that we don't know if he will truly be the very last Dragonborn, especially since Bethesda can retcon that at any time. Zenimax has already retconed the CHIM. And Bethesda has retconed Alessia being the first Dragonborn with the introduction of Miraak.

      Maybe...they could easily change it to "the Legendary Dragonborn" or something along the lines of him being special even among the dragonborns. 

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    • I believe Talos has forsaken the Empire after the signing of the White Gold Concordat. Thus, leading to the Stormcloak rebellion.

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    • Pelinal Whitestrake wrote:
      Please do not turn this thread into a Flame War or Civil War discussion.

      due ti skyrim u cant have a discusion on talos without atleast mentioning the civil war

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    • 72.22.115.188 wrote:
      Pelinal Whitestrake wrote:
      Please do not turn this thread into a Flame War or Civil War discussion.
      due ti skyrim u cant have a discusion on talos without atleast mentioning the civil war

      Was it really worth digging up the thread again for that? Since it has been, though, I suppose that his is rather relevant to the discussion: " I talked with Kurt about a whole mental anguish thing that happened to the world of TES after Talos was shot out of heaven by the Thalmor.

      Short version: any attempt to draw the old red diamond would invariably end up failing.

      Ex: A painter would paint it. The paint would set. The paint would crack and move. The final painting would be a 2D explosion. More Talos despair would set in.

      Ex: Blacksmiths would forge the symbol. The metal would cool, be applied to an Imperial helmet. A brave legate would wear it. The diamond stayed on long enough to meet with a Dominion ambassador. Imperials would be all "See? Our faith in Talos is--" Legate's helmet would crack from the symbol, legate's head crushes in. More Talos despair. Dominion ambassador would smile and accept the surrender of whole legions.

      Ex: A bard, knowing the "cracking diamond effect", attempts to describe the symbol in verse, to avoid the physical danger. He performs the verse to a crowd of secret Talos worshipers. They begin to see the diamond in their minds and are overjoyed. Then the screaming starts. Two hours later, a throng of headless corpses are found, strewn diamond-pattern in a courtyard. Other worshipers arrive to look on them, seeing a sign of their god in the bodies of his martyrs. Crowds gather at this holy site. Dominion lets the hope set in, declares small doubt in the finality of Talos' erasure. People go "whoa" and flock to the site. Thalmor button is pressed. The new settlement blows up as anything around the diamond shape regards it in a chain-reaction explosion of viscera, language, spellfire. Half a province surrenders to the Thalmor.

      +++

      Parts of Game: Skyrim would show all of this in mechanical terms. The LDB would have to learn how to successfully craft the diamond shape without danger. They would have to avoid certain "latent diamond traps", etc.

      Was awesome idea. Was also... technically difficult. Was also radical. Is saved for a future game or DLC" -MK.

      I think there is little point in addressing any individual posts, as they were so long ago, but I do think the quote provides an interesting insight into the discussion as a whole. 

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    • King in the North wrote:

      Was it really worth digging up the thread again for that? Since it has been, though, I suppose that his is rather relevant to the discussion: " I talked with Kurt about a whole mental anguish thing that happened to the world of TES...

      what is your source on this?

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    • 107.216.164.184 wrote:
      King in the North wrote:

      Was it really worth digging up the thread again for that? Since it has been, though, I suppose that his is rather relevant to the discussion: " I talked with Kurt about a whole mental anguish thing that happened to the world of...

      what is your source on this?

      I said, Michael Kirkbride. If you mean where did he state it, though, then here: http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1ypzzk/is_there_a_reason_why_the_imperial_dragon_emblem/

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    • Were I Talos, I would go to Tamriel, grab whoever replaces Mede as Emperor and grab Ulfric, smack their heads together a few times, point south towards the Dominion and say:

      "The enemy's THAT WAY, gentlemen! If I hear you two have been fighting again, I'm gonna kick both of your asses so hard you'll be tasting my divine foot for weeks. No, I don't give a damn who started it, stop fighting and get humanity ready for the Dominion's next invasion!"

      I would then re-ascend to Aetherius, keep an eye out for any more fighting and keep my foot ready for an ass-whooping just in case.

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    • King in the North wrote:
      72.22.115.188 wrote:
      Pelinal Whitestrake wrote:
      Please do not turn this thread into a Flame War or Civil War discussion.
      due ti skyrim u cant have a discusion on talos without atleast mentioning the civil war
      Was it really worth digging up the thread again for that? Since it has been, though, I suppose that his is rather relevant to the discussion: " I talked with Kurt about a whole mental anguish thing that happened to the world of...

      "Shot out of heaven by the Thalmor?"

      Is this implying that the Thalmor destroyed Talos' oversoul in some sense? How would they cause his symbols to do these things? Maybe I'm missing some of the context?

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    • Harold Burned-Mane wrote:

      Dark Jeto wrote: I think it was more than that. I think the Empire was necessary to give stability and peace to a continent on the brink of self-destruction. If the ten seperate nations were to survive together, they would need to unify. The Septim Empire brought peace and prosperity to Tamriel, and kept the different sides from killing eachother. But truly believe in what the Prophet said in Elder Scrolls Online: "By long tradition, only a Dragonborn can rightfully claim the throne." Or atleast a descendant of Alessia. Since that bloodline has ended, as far as we know anyway, the Empire is doomed to fail.

      Tiber Septim wasn't related to Alessia, he was just a Dragonborn that popped up. Even though the Last Dragonborn is called that we don't know if he will truly be the very last Dragonborn, especially since Bethesda can retcon that at any time. Zenimax has already retconed the CHIM. And Bethesda has retconed Alessia being the first Dragonborn with the introduction of Miraak.

      Alessia was never a 'Dragonborn', rather, she was the 'Chosen of Akatosh" if you will. basically, she was a plain mortal, who got chosen by Akatosh to lead mankind out of slaveryn (TES Moses, if you will), in the Covenant between her and Akatosh it was stated that either those born of the dragon, a child of Akatosh, Dragonborn, OR the child of Alessia, as long as they wore the amulet, the empire would never fall, and Nirn would be protected from Daedric invasion. because nither a Child of Alessia, nor a Dragonborn, are on the throne, and the amulet was destroyed, the fires stopped burning, and the Empire has all but fallen, thought Nirn is still protected, throught the Avatar, the Empire shall still fall. all of this information was found in oblivion, or extrapolated from what was found, and recent events within the lore, such as the crumbling of power, i.e. the other countries seperating from the Empire.

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    • With the assassination of Emperor Mede in Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood questline, does that signify the end of the Mede Dynasty and thus, the Empire itself?

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    • Rigid Generic wrote:
      With the assassination of Emperor Mede in Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood questline, does that signify the end of the Mede Dynasty and thus, the Empire itself?

      We don't know if Mede has any family (brothers, sisters, uncles, sons, daughters, etc) to succeed him, but whoever had him assassinated most likely did it to put someone else on the throne. Maybe even someone unrelated to him, who knows. We'll have to wait until TES VI to find out, but the Empire ending is highly unlikely. The Elder Council will pick someone else.

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    • Would be cool if the Dragonborn took over the Empire...in whatever direction that might take it.

      Unless he decides to take a trip to Akavir, that is...

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    • 462513 wrote: Would be cool if the Dragonborn took over the Empire...in whatever direction that might take it.

      Unless he decides to take a trip to Akavir, that is...

      It would be cool, yes, for the Dragonborn to assume the mantle of Emperor. However, the shattering of the Amulet of Kings and the restoration of the magical barriers between Oblivion and Nirn eliminated any need for a Dragonborn to be crowned Emperor.

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    • Draevan13 wrote:

      Rigid Generic wrote:
      With the assassination of Emperor Mede in Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood questline, does that signify the end of the Mede Dynasty and thus, the Empire itself?

      We don't know if Mede has any family (brothers, sisters, uncles, sons, daughters, etc) to succeed him, but whoever had him assassinated most likely did it to put someone else on the throne. Maybe even someone unrelated to him, who knows. We'll have to wait until TES VI to find out, but the Empire ending is highly unlikely. The Elder Council will pick someone else.

      Yeah, that's true. It was implicated that Amaund Motierre had a specific reason for the elimination of Mede. But it is an option to have Motierre, himself, assassinated at the behest of Titus at the conclusion of Hail Sithis.

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    • Rigid Generic wrote:

      Yeah, that's true. It was implicated that Amaund Motierre had a specific reason for the elimination of Mede. But it is an option to have Motierre, himself, assassinated at the behest of Titus at the conclusion of Hail Sithis.

      With a conspiracy at that level, he can't have been acting alone. I would be very surprised if he wanted to seat himself on the Throne. Likely he was just a catspaw.

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    • Yeah, but you can't just usurp a higher authority as easily as that. You'd need to have a claim to the throne.

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    • Rigid Generic wrote:

      462513 wrote: Would be cool if the Dragonborn took over the Empire...in whatever direction that might take it.

      Unless he decides to take a trip to Akavir, that is...

      It would be cool, yes, for the Dragonborn to assume the mantle of Emperor. However, the shattering of the Amulet of Kings and the restoration of the magical barriers between Oblivion and Nirn eliminated any need for a Dragonborn to be crowned Emperor.

      It could give the empire the edge they need to pull themselves together though.

      As a few different people have mentioned, many of the most succesful Emperors were blessed by Kyne in some way.

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    • 50.33.201.131 wrote:

      Rigid Generic wrote:

      462513 wrote: Would be cool if the Dragonborn took over the Empire...in whatever direction that might take it.

      Unless he decides to take a trip to Akavir, that is...

      It would be cool, yes, for the Dragonborn to assume the mantle of Emperor. However, the shattering of the Amulet of Kings and the restoration of the magical barriers between Oblivion and Nirn eliminated any need for a Dragonborn to be crowned Emperor.
      It could give the empire the edge they need to pull themselves together though.

      As a few different people have mentioned, many of the most succesful Emperors were blessed by Kyne in some way.

      Man, I don't know. What kind of work does being an emperor encompass? I doubt the Dragonborn would be suited for that role. And the Dragonborn can't exactly peacefully unite all the provinces and supress any and all wars.

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    • Also if the dragonborn was emperor they would have to give him a canon name, race, gender, etc. Bethesda just doesn't work like that. 

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    • They could give him a new imperial name sort of like how tales became Tiber septim.

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    • No the dragonborn won't be the emperor. Bethesda doesn't work that way, the player character always turn out to be a side character in the big story. Perhaps his children could be emperors? Although I think Skyrim's races would make that difficult unless they decide that the dragonborn is a nord.

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    • 92.251.228.132 wrote: No the dragonborn won't be the emperor. Bethesda doesn't work that way, the player character always turn out to be a side character in the big story. Perhaps his children could be emperors? Although I think Skyrim's races would make that difficult unless they decide that the dragonborn is a nord.

      That got me thinking. If the Dovahkiin in Skyrim, by chance, had children, would his children be Dragonborn. Just looking back at the Septim Bloodline, in which all of Tiber Septim's progeny were Dragonborn.

      If the Dovahkiin had children which would become Dragonborn, then the Dovahkiin would no longer be "The Last Dragonborn".

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    • Dovahkiin will be the last on to be the Dragon hunter born. In fact, he is the only one referred to as Dovahkiin, so in a way, he's the last Dov Ah Kiin.

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    • The Empire will not be gone, not after you spent 4/5 games saving it!

      Wulf was probably just referring to the Septims.

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    • Raven biter 114 wrote:
      The Empire will not be gone, not after you spent 4/5 games saving it!

      Wulf was probably just referring to the Septims.

      Septims are the Empire, without them it's nothinng but a rotting carcass fit only for scrapping.

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    • 80.216.196.220 wrote:
      Raven biter 114 wrote:
      The Empire will not be gone, not after you spent 4/5 games saving it!

      Wulf was probably just referring to the Septims.

      Septims are the Empire, without them it's nothinng but a rotting carcass fit only for scrapping.

      Karliah is actually a descendent of Tiber Septim and Barenziah.

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    • Raven biter 114 wrote:
      80.216.196.220 wrote:
      Raven biter 114 wrote:
      The Empire will not be gone, not after you spent 4/5 games saving it!

      Wulf was probably just referring to the Septims.

      Septims are the Empire, without them it's nothinng but a rotting carcass fit only for scrapping.
      Karliah is actually a descendent of Tiber Septim and Barenziah.

      No, Karliah is the granchild of Barenziah and a Thief.

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    • Maybe when Tiber Septim became Talos by mantling Lorkhan, since Lorkhan was essentially already dead, Talos himself became "dead" as well, and can no longer influence things in Mundus directly?

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    • Or maybe he can only strongly influence things in Skyrim.

      I imagine the Dovahkiin could do a good job as emperor. There were warrior emperors in the Second and Third era, and the emperor who united Tamriel was a renowned general...it seems to involve diplomacy, decision making, and acting as a figurehead of sorts.

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    • For the record there is no official cannon race ect but at the same time there is in Morrowind the hero is strongly implied to be a dark elf a imperial for oblivion and a nord for skyrim and i would not put it past bethesda to do that not anymore as for the Empire there have already been three unrelated empires before the Mede dynasty the Alessian Dynasty the Reman Dynasty and the Septim Dynasty all that said i believe the real threat is to the far east and will come from Akavir that may be why the Argonians have been so quite the Hist could be preparing them to defend against a Akaviri Invasion since Akavir could easily steamroll tameriel now that its so divided i have always seen that as the true purpose for the Empire to fight off Akavir it would be a great chance for the Nereverine to come back as well since he is immortal thanks to the corpse infection and hard to kill thanks to wraith guard keening and sunder 

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    • I think Wulf was trying to say that it's time to form a republic. "Change is never easy" and so on, he's talking about a revolution. I doubt very much he likes the direction things are going in with the Aldmeri Dominion taking over, so he must have been talking about some other change. 

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    • Short answer? No. Talos does not interfere very often at all in mortal affairs as he is busy sustaining Creation in place of the Heart of Lorkhan, holding back the turning of the Kalpa, and generally mucking about on Masser. It's not an easy task by any stretch of the imagination, taking the place of one of two existential focal points, even if one has CHIM and Lorkhanic divinity.

      That said, his words in Morrowind can be interpreted many ways. He simply states that the then-current Empire (the late Septim Dynasty) was old, and perhaps in need of change. He quite specifically points out that he does not know what that change should be. It could very well simply mean a changing of Dynasties, which happens with the rise of the Medes to the Imperial Throne, or some form of reform. He does in no way imply that he no longer supports the Empire, and indeed why would he? He built it. It's his lasting footprint on Nirn, one that's stood the test of hundreds of years. And indeed, if there is anything that can be said of Talos, it is that his Ego is legendary.

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    • I just hope the next emperor/emperess defeat the aldmeri dominion and the only thing the people of tamriel need to worry about is the daedra or other continents attacking

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    • I'm glad I'm not the only one that has had this thought with the Dragonborn taking the Emperor's mantle (at least the flippin' High King). Unless I completely misunderstood what I read, Talos, a.k.a. Tiber Septim, was indeed a Nord before he was given the Imperial name. True, the Red Diamond is shattered and can't be reforged, setting the gates sealed on Oblivion. I honestly don't believe it was supposed to be that way, though. Cutting off Nirn from Oblivion may be choking Reality.

      As Talos is, basically the Pacemaker for physical reality, the faith being slammed by the Thalmor could weaken His ability to hold onto that Divinity and keep things going. The signs posted above (which sound absolutely amazing) with the Diamond symbol itself causing destruction is showing a sort of degrade in reality. Which is why, I am assuming, the Draconic symbol of the Septim line is broken?

      I think what Wulf is saying is talking about the subsequent games Oblivion and then Skyrim with the Empire being attacked politically and physically, and that this snafu will cause something better to arise later. Nothing saying someone can't gat a hold of an Elder Scroll and really mess with things.

      And if Talos was shot out of Heaven, who's to say the Dragon Born isn't capable of being Him again? Or at least the children? Could be an epic quest to attempt to reforge the diamond in later games, and possibly bring the Heart of Lorkhan into play again. Sort of a repeat in history with the Ayleid and Nede races with the Thalmor and ... well everyone else.

      The Trickster, Lorkhan, was all about creation and change, which was hard at first, but something beautiful always came about afterwards. Talos may have taken this new role to get society back on track. You may not see Him as any of His old Avatars, He may be M'aiq for all we know or that stable hand down the road, just poking a little here and there to get people in the direction they need to be.

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    • He just predicted the Oblivion Crisis,the new change he mentions can mean Titus Mede using conquest to restore the Empire

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    • I'm fairly sure Talos meant the empire as a whole, as far as everyone's concerned it's merely a new dynasty in the same empire. So Talos' prediction still applies.

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    • Purrington wrote:
      Man, I don't know. What kind of work does being an emperor encompass? I doubt the Dragonborn would be suited for that role. And the Dragonborn can't exactly peacefully unite all the provinces and supress any and all wars.

      Why not?

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    • Got to thinking. Maybe I am the Emperor, and I just don`t know it yet.

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    • 92.221.107.139 wrote: Got to thinking. Maybe I am the Emperor, and I just don`t know it yet.

      If it'd let me I'd give kudos so hard.

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    • Ottoman Hold
      Ottoman Hold removed this reply because:
      Off topic/spam
      15:12, April 30, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Please get back on topic. Thank you.

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    • Ottoman? Why'd you ressurect the thread? Anyways. I'm willing to bet he did after they banned his worship.

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    • Of course Talos hasn't given up on the Empire. After all, the Empire doesn't enforce the Talos ban, in fact, they still worship him, and stand for the same thing he stood for. 

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      Of course Talos hasn't given up on the Empire. After all, the Empire doesn't enforce the Talos ban, in fact, they still worship him, and stand for the same thing he stood for. 

      He stood for appeasing Mer?

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    • 80.216.218.146 wrote:

      He stood for appeasing Mer?

      He stood for peace and unity. Two things the Empire is still after. 

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    • Can I, erh... pitch in?

      I'd like to point out that, while the Empire brought unity and prosperity, Tiber himself lusted for power. Not arguing the aftermaths of said megalomaniac establishing an empire, but his inner motives revolved solely around his ambitions.

      I'll drop out, now.

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    • CynicalEarth wrote:
      Can I, erh... pitch in?

      I'd like to point out that, while the Empire brought unity and prosperity, Tiber himself lusted for power. Not arguing the aftermaths of said megalomaniac establishing an empire, but his inner motives revolved solely around his ambitions.

      I'll drop out, now.

      Do you have any kind of source confirming what you said?

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      CynicalEarth wrote:
      Can I, erh... pitch in?

      I'd like to point out that, while the Empire brought unity and prosperity, Tiber himself lusted for power. Not arguing the aftermaths of said megalomaniac establishing an empire, but his inner motives revolved solely around his ambitions.

      I'll drop out, now.

      Do you have any kind of source confirming what you said?

      There is no source, he probably got this from the Imperial library, on one of the pages made by a Fan with a low IQ. 

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    • The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:

      There is no source, he probably got this from the Imperial library, on one of the pages made by a Fan with a low IQ. 

      I never trust the Imperial Library. Especially since Michael Kirkbride said that Aldmeris isn't a real thing. 

        Loading editor
    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:

      There is no source, he probably got this from the Imperial library, on one of the pages made by a Fan with a low IQ. 

      I never trust the Imperial Library. Especially since Michael Kirkbride said that Aldmeris isn't a real thing.

      I hate that people go with whatever he says. CHIM, He says Talos is all powerful because of it, In my opinion. CHIM, Is basically the G.E.C.K. In fallout.

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    • The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:

      I hate that people go with whatever he says. CHIM, He says Talos is all powerful because of it, In my opinion. CHIM, Is basically the G.E.C.K. In fallout.

      I don't play Fallout, but if you say CHIM is similar to G.E.C.K. I'll take your word for it. 

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:

      I hate that people go with whatever he says. CHIM, He says Talos is all powerful because of it, In my opinion. CHIM, Is basically the G.E.C.K. In fallout.

      I don't play Fallout, but if you say CHIM is similar to G.E.C.K. I'll take your word for it. 

      G.E.C.K Is used to recreate the earth in the case of Nuclear war, There are theories that The G.E.C.K created Tamriel, and CHIM, Is The GECK.

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    • The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:

      G.E.C.K Is used to recreate the earth in the case of Nuclear war, There are theories that The G.E.C.K created Tamriel, and CHIM, Is The GECK.

      Wait, people are linking Fallout and The Elder Scrolls? I mean, sure, there are easter eggs, but to think they're the same universe? Are people serious?

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:

      G.E.C.K Is used to recreate the earth in the case of Nuclear war, There are theories that The G.E.C.K created Tamriel, and CHIM, Is The GECK.

      Wait, people are linking Fallout and The Elder Scrolls? I mean, sure, there are easter eggs, but to think they're the same universe? Are people serious?

      Yeah, sadly, Fallout wikia thinks Shoddycast is a reliable source, therefore "Let's break lore! TES is in Fallout's universe!" I hate the fans of Fallout sometimes.

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    • The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:

      Yeah, sadly, Fallout wikia thinks Shoddycast is a reliable source, therefore "Let's break lore! TES is in Fallout's universe!" I hate the fans of Fallout sometimes.

      I'm highly dissapointed in the Fallout fanbase.

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    • The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:
      Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:

      G.E.C.K Is used to recreate the earth in the case of Nuclear war, There are theories that The G.E.C.K created Tamriel, and CHIM, Is The GECK.

      Wait, people are linking Fallout and The Elder Scrolls? I mean, sure, there are easter eggs, but to think they're the same universe? Are people serious?
      Yeah, sadly, Fallout wikia thinks Shoddycast is a reliable source, therefore "Let's break lore! TES is in Fallout's universe!" I hate the fans of Fallout sometimes.

      You can't blame them. They are both really great franchises, and with everything being connected in universes and by timelines in the entertainment industries these days, it's really not harmful to theorize. Of course there are huge differences between the two worlds, and any serious theorist or gamer knows enough that there are too many holes in the theory for it to hold water. 

        Loading editor
    • PipProductionCo wrote:
      The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:
      Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:

      G.E.C.K Is used to recreate the earth in the case of Nuclear war, There are theories that The G.E.C.K created Tamriel, and CHIM, Is The GECK.

      Wait, people are linking Fallout and The Elder Scrolls? I mean, sure, there are easter eggs, but to think they're the same universe? Are people serious?
      Yeah, sadly, Fallout wikia thinks Shoddycast is a reliable source, therefore "Let's break lore! TES is in Fallout's universe!" I hate the fans of Fallout sometimes.
      You can't blame them. They are both really great franchises, and with everything being connected in universes and by timelines in the entertainment industries these days, it's really not harmful to theorize. Of course there are huge differences between the two worlds, and any serious theorist or gamer knows enough that there are too many holes in the theory for it to hold water. 

      The only thing that could prove it, is CHIM/GECK. They don't even grasp for it.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      He stood for peace and unity. Two things the Empire is still after. 

      Hardly at the cost Tamriel is currently paying.


      Sure, on the terms of Mer the empire is still after that.

      They show zero signs of opposing the AD, words are air and mean nothing only action counts.

      Do show a single thing the empire has done that has gone against the AD's desires after the Grwat War.. oh there is none

      Going out of their way to invite AD representatives to cease fire talks, trade talks at Thalmor embassy etc, it is clear there is no real desire to go against the AD among the supposed Imperials.


      Talos has definitely abandoned the rotting husk that is masquerading as the Septim Empire.

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    • 80.216.218.146 wrote:

      Hardly at the cost Tamriel is currently paying.


      Sure, on the terms of Mer the empire is still after that.

      They show zero signs of opposing the AD, words are air and mean nothing only action counts.

      Do show a single thing the empire has done that has gone against the AD's desires after the Grwat War.. oh there is none

      Going out of their way to invite AD representatives to cease fire talks, trade talks at Thalmor embassy etc, it is clear there is no real desire to go against the AD among the supposed Imperials.


      Talos has definitely abandoned the rotting husk that is masquerading as the Septim Empire.

      Zero signs? Never heard of the Great War? Oh of course, you're a Stormcloak, of course you haven't.

      Never heard of Helgen? Oh, of course not. Oh and maybe the fact that the Empire never enforced the WGC?

      The Empire doesn't invite them, the Thalmor are allowed to be there for the simple fact that the WGC can't be broken. There are no trade talks at the Embassy.

      Oh really? That's why the Emperor has stationed most of the Legion at the border between Cyrodiil and the Dominion?


      Seems like you don't know how to spell Stormcloak Rebellion

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      Zero signs? Never heard of the Great War? Oh of course, you're a Stormcloak, of course you haven't.

      Never heard of Helgen? Oh, of course not. Oh and maybe the fact that the Empire never enforced the WGC?

      The Empire doesn't invite them, the Thalmor are allowed to be there for the simple fact that the WGC can't be broken. There are no trade talks at the Embassy.

      Oh really? That's why the Emperor has stationed most of the Legion at the border between Cyrodiil and the Dominion?


      Seems like you don't know how to spell Stormcloak Rebellion

      AFTER the Great War, I said.


      Yeah yeah, always Helgen.

      Thats nothing.

      Dress legionaries as bandits or stormcloaks and kill justicars and come back talking about opposing the AD.


      Stopping Dragons/Alduin has ZERO to do with the WGC.

      Show one line in it that mentions dragons.


      No, the Imperials went out of their way to invite their Thalmor buddies there.

      Listen to the small talk among the guests and then say there was no trade talks.


      Putting on a show is why they have most of their troops there.

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    • 80.216.218.146 wrote:

      AFTER the Great War, I said.


      Yeah yeah, always Helgen.

      Thats nothing.

      Dress legionaries as bandits or stormcloaks and kill justicars and come back talking about opposing the AD.


      Stopping Dragons/Alduin has ZERO to do with the WGC.

      Show one line in it that mentions dragons.


      No, the Imperials went out of their way to invite their Thalmor buddies there.

      Listen to the small talk among the guests and then say there was no trade talks.


      Putting on a show is why they have most of their troops there.

      Helgen is nothing? The Empire did exactly the opposite of what the Thalmor wanted, only reason Ulfric survived was thanks to Alduin.

      Why are you talking about Dragons? (Fun fact: Ulfric is to blame for their return)

      Nope, they didn't. You're ignorant to the lore, start over in Skyrim, learn all the lore again. All the evidence leads to joining the Empire. 

      Not WITH the Thalmor no, there was talk about how good the trade was going, but that's it.


      No, they are there because of Ulfric.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      Helgen is nothing? The Empire did exactly the opposite of what the Thalmor wanted, only reason Ulfric survived was thanks to Alduin.

      Why are you talking about Dragons? (Fun fact: Ulfric is to blame for their return)

      Nope, they didn't. You're ignorant to the lore, start over in Skyrim, learn all the lore again. All the evidence leads to joining the Empire. 

      Not WITH the Thalmor no, there was talk about how good the trade was going, but that's it.


      No, they are there because of Ulfric.

      Yeah, it's nothing like I said.

      Is there an echo here?


      Talking about dragons because the cease fire that Tullius goes out of his way to invite his BFF Elenwen to was about the dragons.

      Nothing about Talos, nor the WGC at all.

      Thalmor, and Elenwen had no reason to be there expect for the fact that Imperials love the AD.

      The fact that a accident wasn't arranged for her party afterwards only proves it more.

      "oh no, Elenwen tripped all the way from the top of the mountain and was eaten by frost trolls.

      How awful but that is just part of the dangers of Skyrim, signed Tullius letter to Aldmeri Dominion."

      Is an example of what they could have done if they actually cared about opposing the AD.

      But nope, instead we get Elenwen Imperial BFF.


      He is only to blame for that in a seriously roundabout way, Mede dynasty has more blame by their bungling of not only the Great War but by allowing the WGC to come into place.

      Skyrim would have ceded into civil war with or without Ulfric.


      Where is this supposed lore?


      They were talking TO Thalmor about trade, so yes.


      That was an answer to this;

      "Oh really? That's why the Emperor has stationed most of the Legion at the border between Cyrodiil and the Dominion?"

      Ulfric is the reason the emperor did that?

      Why does it seem like you meant that in a bad way?

      But more importantly, why does it matter where they are placed when they aren't going into conflict with the AD ever?

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    • 80.216.218.146 wrote:

      Yeah, it's nothing like I said.

      Is there an echo here?


      Talking about dragons because the cease fire that Tullius goes out of his way to invite his BFF Elenwen to was about the dragons.

      Nothing about Talos, nor the WGC at all.

      Thalmor, and Elenwen had no reason to be there expect for the fact that Imperials love the AD.

      The fact that a accident wasn't arranged for her party afterwards only proves it more.

      "oh no, Elenwen tripped all the way from the top of the mountain and was eaten by frost trolls.

      How awful but that is just part of the dangers of Skyrim, signed Tullius letter to Aldmeri Dominion."

      Is an example of what they could have done if they actually cared about opposing the AD.

      But nope, instead we get Elenwen Imperial BFF.


      He is only to blame for that in a seriously roundabout way, Mede dynasty has more blame by their bungling of not only the Great War but by allowing the WGC to come into place.

      Skyrim would have ceded into civil war with or without Ulfric.


      Where is this supposed lore?


      They were talking TO Thalmor about trade, so yes.


      That was an answer to this;

      "Oh really? That's why the Emperor has stationed most of the Legion at the border between Cyrodiil and the Dominion?"

      Ulfric is the reason the emperor did that?

      Why does it seem like you meant that in a bad way?

      But more importantly, why does it matter where they are placed when they aren't going into conflict with the AD ever?

      It's exactly what you said, unless if you don't know what you're saying.


      She was only invited because there would be a negotiation for peace with the Stormcloaks knowing the Stormcloaks go all crazy over Talos worship, Elenwen had to be there to ensure the WGC wouldn't be broken by the Empire. Her death would result in the next Great War. Oh and by the way, according to your own logic, why didn't Galmar and Ulfric just wait for her to leave High Hrothgar and kill her? According to your logic the Stormcloaks collaborate with the Thalmor.


      Skyrim wouldn't have fallen into a civil war without Ulfric, because anybody else would ask the people what they want, cast a vote throughout Skyrim and ask for independency to the High King. Unlike Ulfric, who straight up murdered Torygg.


      Everywhere in the game, usually looked over by Stormcloaks.


      Talking about how trade was going, but not some trade negotiation.


      It seemed like you were referring to the Thalmor. 

      They are going to do that, the Empire isn't placing them there for show, talk to Tullius. 

        Loading editor
    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      It's exactly what you said, unless if you don't know what you're saying.


      She was only invited because there would be a negotiation for peace with the Stormcloaks knowing the Stormcloaks go all crazy over Talos worship, Elenwen had to be there to ensure the WGC wouldn't be broken by the Empire. Her death would result in the next Great War. Oh and by the way, according to your own logic, why didn't Galmar and Ulfric just wait for her to leave High Hrothgar and kill her? According to your logic the Stormcloaks collaborate with the Thalmor.


      Skyrim wouldn't have fallen into a civil war without Ulfric, because anybody else would ask the people what they want, cast a vote throughout Skyrim and ask for independency to the High King. Unlike Ulfric, who straight up murdered Torygg.


      Everywhere in the game, usually looked over by Stormcloaks.


      Talking about how trade was going, but not some trade negotiation.


      It seemed like you were referring to the Thalmor. 

      They are going to do that, the Empire isn't placing them there for show, talk to Tullius. 

      I know what I said, and it was the Helgen was nothing.

      And it isn't.


      A temporary ceasefire not peace to deal with Alduin and the dragons, ie absolutely nothing that concerns the Thalmor.

      Talos worship had nothing to do with it.

      Elenwen or even any Thalmor dying would result in the next Great War?

      Then have come that hasn't happened yet then?

      Stormcloaks kill any Thalmor they run across, why isn't there a war yet huh?

      Riddle me that please

      Get real, accidents happen and Skyrim is dangerous.

      There are numerous ways to kill which the AD can do jack all about.

      Dark Brotherhood for one, and the AD would have to prove the WGC has been broken otherwise again why hasn't the second Great war started already?


      In a way sure, Ulfric or Galmar should have "accidentally" tripped into Elenwen pushing her of the mountain.

      Ulfric could have sneezed Thu'um'd her off too come to think of it.

      Not really, Ulfric and c/o don't hang at Thalmor parties and go out of their way to invite them were their presence is in zero ways required.

      That is all on Imperials.


      In another thread you said going to the people over Jarls is stupid and something a foriegner does, which way is it?

      Challenging the High King by duel is well established in Nord culture.

      It is the Nord way.

      And nope, still not a murder.

      Yup, the disatisfaction described in Skyrim's Rule would indeed have made civil war very very ad nauseum ineivitable.


      Yeah, not really.

      Unless hidden in like the code of the game needing special programs to find.


      How the trade with the Thalmor were going, yes.


      Oh, sorry.

      Could have phrased that better.

      That one is all me, apologies.


      Were are actions that show they will, all actions shown are Imperial aiding Thalmor.

      Talk to Tullius for more words?

      Yeah right, words are wind.

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    • 80.216.218.146 wrote:
      Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      It's exactly what you said, unless if you don't know what you're saying.


      She was only invited because there would be a negotiation for peace with the Stormcloaks knowing the Stormcloaks go all crazy over Talos worship, Elenwen had to be there to ensure the WGC wouldn't be broken by the Empire. Her death would result in the next Great War. Oh and by the way, according to your own logic, why didn't Galmar and Ulfric just wait for her to leave High Hrothgar and kill her? According to your logic the Stormcloaks collaborate with the Thalmor.


      Skyrim wouldn't have fallen into a civil war without Ulfric, because anybody else would ask the people what they want, cast a vote throughout Skyrim and ask for independency to the High King. Unlike Ulfric, who straight up murdered Torygg.


      Everywhere in the game, usually looked over by Stormcloaks.


      Talking about how trade was going, but not some trade negotiation.


      It seemed like you were referring to the Thalmor. 

      They are going to do that, the Empire isn't placing them there for show, talk to Tullius. 

      I know what I said, and it was the Helgen was nothing.

      And it isn't.


      A temporary ceasefire not peace to deal with Alduin and the dragons, ie absolutely nothing that concerns the Thalmor.

      Talos worship had nothing to do with it.

      Elenwen or even any Thalmor dying would result in the next Great War?

      Then have come that hasn't happened yet then?

      Stormcloaks kill any Thalmor they run across, why isn't there a war yet huh?

      Riddle me that please

      Get real, accidents happen and Skyrim is dangerous.

      There are numerous ways to kill which the AD can do jack all about.

      Dark Brotherhood for one, and the AD would have to prove the WGC has been broken otherwise again why hasn't the second Great war started already?


      In a way sure, Ulfric or Galmar should have "accidentally" tripped into Elenwen pushing her of the mountain.

      Ulfric could have sneezed Thu'um'd her off too come to think of it.

      Not really, Ulfric and c/o don't hang at Thalmor parties and go out of their way to invite them were their presence is in zero ways required.

      That is all on Imperials.


      In another thread you said going to the people over Jarls is stupid and something a foriegner does, which way is it?

      Challenging the High King by duel is well established in Nord culture.

      It is the Nord way.

      And nope, still not a murder.

      Yup, the disatisfaction described in Skyrim's Rule would indeed have made civil war very very ad nauseum ineivitable.


      Yeah, not really.

      Unless hidden in like the code of the game needing special programs to find.


      How the trade with the Thalmor were going, yes.


      Oh, sorry.

      Could have phrased that better.

      That one is all me, apologies.


      Were are actions that show they will, all actions shown are Imperial aiding Thalmor.

      Talk to Tullius for more words?

      Yeah right, words are wind.

      Tullius was actually trying to help Skyrim, Ulfric just wants power and fame. He literally tried to get you to kill him, for the reason of "It will make for a better song." If you look at Tullius, he doesn't care about the White-Gold Concordant. He lets all his men worship Talos. Look at Rikke, or Hadvar, As long as they keep it out of the Thalmor's eyes, it's fine by him, do you know why? He knows that Talos formed the Empire, Ulfric doesn't seem to care at all. He even woke up Alduin. He studied with the Greybeards. He'd know the prophecy. He just continues to murder Torygg.

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    • The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:

      Tullius was actually trying to help Skyrim, Ulfric just wants power and fame. He literally tried to get you to kill him, for the reason of "It will make for a better song." If you look at Tullius, he doesn't care about the White-Gold Concordant. He lets all his men worship Talos. Look at Rikke, or Hadvar, As long as they keep it out of the Thalmor's eyes, it's fine by him, do you know why? He knows that Talos formed the Empire, Ulfric doesn't seem to care at all. He even woke up Alduin. He studied with the Greybeards. He'd know the prophecy. He just continues to murder Torygg.

      Funny way of showing it, pal'ing around with his BFF and all.


      Yeah, Ulfric is a Nord so what else is new?

      Heard about bards and stuff?


      Doesn't care huh?

      Again interesting way of showing it.


      Yes, formed the Septim empire not the decayed Mede empire husk masquerading as heir to Talos's empire.

      Ulfric knows kowtowing to Mer is not the true Empire way.


      Greybeards are a bunch of shutins deluding themselves into thinkg they know anything about Kyne, who cares about them


      Prophecy or not, Solitude puppets had to go.

      Ulfric or not civil war was happening, the Imperial misrule of Skyrim guaranteed it.

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    • 80.216.218.146 wrote:
      The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:

      Tullius was actually trying to help Skyrim, Ulfric just wants power and fame. He literally tried to get you to kill him, for the reason of "It will make for a better song." If you look at Tullius, he doesn't care about the White-Gold Concordant. He lets all his men worship Talos. Look at Rikke, or Hadvar, As long as they keep it out of the Thalmor's eyes, it's fine by him, do you know why? He knows that Talos formed the Empire, Ulfric doesn't seem to care at all. He even woke up Alduin. He studied with the Greybeards. He'd know the prophecy. He just continues to murder Torygg.

      Funny way of showing it, pal'ing around with his BFF and all.


      Yeah, Ulfric is a Nord so what else is new?

      Heard about bards and stuff?


      Doesn't care huh?

      Again interesting way of showing it.


      Yes, formed the Septim empire not the decayed Mede empire husk masquerading as heir to Talos's empire.

      Ulfric knows kowtowing to Mer is not the true Empire way.


      Greybeards are a bunch of shutins deluding themselves into thinkg they know anything about Kyne, who cares about them


      Prophecy or not, Solitude puppets had to go.

      Ulfric or not civil war was happening, the Imperial misrule of Skyrim guaranteed it.

      Imperial misrule? There is no Misrule. The misrule starts if Ulfric wins.

        Loading editor
    • 80.216.218.146 wrote: I know what I said, and it was the Helgen was nothing.

      And it isn't.


      A temporary ceasefire not peace to deal with Alduin and the dragons, ie absolutely nothing that concerns the Thalmor.

      Talos worship had nothing to do with it.

      Elenwen or even any Thalmor dying would result in the next Great War?

      Then have come that hasn't happened yet then?

      Stormcloaks kill any Thalmor they run across, why isn't there a war yet huh?

      Riddle me that please

      Get real, accidents happen and Skyrim is dangerous.

      There are numerous ways to kill which the AD can do jack all about.

      Dark Brotherhood for one, and the AD would have to prove the WGC has been broken otherwise again why hasn't the second Great war started already?


      In a way sure, Ulfric or Galmar should have "accidentally" tripped into Elenwen pushing her of the mountain.

      Ulfric could have sneezed Thu'um'd her off too come to think of it.

      Not really, Ulfric and c/o don't hang at Thalmor parties and go out of their way to invite them were their presence is in zero ways required.

      That is all on Imperials.


      In another thread you said going to the people over Jarls is stupid and something a foriegner does, which way is it?

      Challenging the High King by duel is well established in Nord culture.

      It is the Nord way.

      And nope, still not a murder.

      Yup, the disatisfaction described in Skyrim's Rule would indeed have made civil war very very ad nauseum ineivitable.


      Yeah, not really.

      Unless hidden in like the code of the game needing special programs to find.


      How the trade with the Thalmor were going, yes.


      Oh, sorry.

      Could have phrased that better.

      That one is all me, apologies.


      Were are actions that show they will, all actions shown are Imperial aiding Thalmor.

      Talk to Tullius for more words?

      Yeah right, words are wind.

      At Helgen Tullius litterally did the opposite of what the Thalmor want.

      What isn't? Make sense please.

      A truce = a ceasefire. Just different words. According to you Hi, hey and hello don't mean the same thing.

      I am here to asure that nothing is agreed upon here that violates the terms of the White-Gold Concordat. -Elenwen Elenwen being killed by Tullius would result in the next Great War yes, because she is a high ranking Thalmor official. Except that they don't. Many Stormcloak ID's don't register Thalmor as enemies. You underestimate the Thalmor. Tullius will be unable to push Elenwen off, meaning he'll have to kill her with force. Which Thalmor agents will be able to see. According to your broken logic, killing of the entire Dominion wouldn't result in a new war because the terms of the WGC aren't violated. -.-

      So why didn't he? Simple. He collaborates with them. He could have killed Elenwen, right there and then, but he didn't. If he truly hated the Thalmor, why didn't he kill her? Riddle me that.

      I never claimed that. That's accepted in every culture. There isn't some special kind of Nord-duel, that's bs that's nowhere mentioned in the entire game. Yes it is murder, read up on it. Skyrim's rule is not a legitimate piece of evidence because it's proven wrong.

      It needs a brain that's able to think logical to find it. Maybe that's too much for you, though I hope I'm wrong.

      Nope, give me a quote.

      The Thalmor say this themselves puny Stormcloak. -.- Well in that case, everything Ulfric said was a lie, in fact, all spoken dialogue is a lie. Don't act stupid.

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    • The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:
      Imperial misrule? There is no Misrule. The misrule starts if Ulfric wins.

      Don't be obtuse, the misrule that created the discontent described so eloquently and succinct in the Skyrim's Rule book.


      The discontent that led to fully half of Skyrim to pick up arms against the Imperial oppressors.

        Loading editor
    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      80.216.218.146 wrote: I know what I said, and it was the Helgen was nothing.

      And it isn't.


      A temporary ceasefire not peace to deal with Alduin and the dragons, ie absolutely nothing that concerns the Thalmor.

      Talos worship had nothing to do with it.

      Elenwen or even any Thalmor dying would result in the next Great War?

      Then have come that hasn't happened yet then?

      Stormcloaks kill any Thalmor they run across, why isn't there a war yet huh?

      Riddle me that please

      Get real, accidents happen and Skyrim is dangerous.

      There are numerous ways to kill which the AD can do jack all about.

      Dark Brotherhood for one, and the AD would have to prove the WGC has been broken otherwise again why hasn't the second Great war started already?


      In a way sure, Ulfric or Galmar should have "accidentally" tripped into Elenwen pushing her of the mountain.

      Ulfric could have sneezed Thu'um'd her off too come to think of it.

      Not really, Ulfric and c/o don't hang at Thalmor parties and go out of their way to invite them were their presence is in zero ways required.

      That is all on Imperials.


      In another thread you said going to the people over Jarls is stupid and something a foriegner does, which way is it?

      Challenging the High King by duel is well established in Nord culture.

      It is the Nord way.

      And nope, still not a murder.

      Yup, the disatisfaction described in Skyrim's Rule would indeed have made civil war very very ad nauseum ineivitable.


      Yeah, not really.

      Unless hidden in like the code of the game needing special programs to find.


      How the trade with the Thalmor were going, yes.


      Oh, sorry.

      Could have phrased that better.

      That one is all me, apologies.


      Were are actions that show they will, all actions shown are Imperial aiding Thalmor.

      Talk to Tullius for more words?

      Yeah right, words are wind.

      At Helgen Tullius litterally did the opposite of what the Thalmor want.

      What isn't? Make sense please.

      A truce = a ceasefire. Just different words. According to you Hi, hey and hello don't mean the same thing.

      I am here to asure that nothing is agreed upon here that violates the terms of the White-Gold Concordat. -Elenwen Elenwen being killed by Tullius would result in the next Great War yes, because she is a high ranking Thalmor official. Except that they don't. Many Stormcloak ID's don't register Thalmor as enemies. You underestimate the Thalmor. Tullius will be unable to push Elenwen off, meaning he'll have to kill her with force. Which Thalmor agents will be able to see. According to your broken logic, killing of the entire Dominion wouldn't result in a new war because the terms of the WGC aren't violated. -.-

      So why didn't he? Simple. He collaborates with them. He could have killed Elenwen, right there and then, but he didn't. If he truly hated the Thalmor, why didn't he kill her? Riddle me that.

      I never claimed that. That's accepted in every culture. There isn't some special kind of Nord-duel, that's bs that's nowhere mentioned in the entire game. Yes it is murder, read up on it. Skyrim's rule is not a legitimate piece of evidence because it's proven wrong.

      It needs a brain that's able to think logical to find it. Maybe that's too much for you, though I hope I'm wrong.

      Nope, give me a quote.

      The Thalmor say this themselves puny Stormcloak. -.- Well in that case, everything Ulfric said was a lie, in fact, all spoken dialogue is a lie. Don't act stupid.

      And you two have the chutzpah to get on me to stop being insulting etc..

      You sorry sacks, anywho this is over now on my part anyway where the two of you are involved.

      Might be back after a rest period from your Thalmor loving ways, don't rightly know.

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    • 83.241.178.154 wrote:

      And you two have the chutzpah to get on me to stop being insulting etc..

      You sorry sacks, anywho this is over now on my part anyway where the two of you are involved.

      Might be back after a rest period from your Thalmor loving ways, don't rightly know.

      Is the Stormcloak beaten? Sure looks like it.

      Last time I checked it wasn't Tullius who was willingly having contact with the Thalmor.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      Is the Stormcloak beaten? Sure looks like it.

      Last time I checked it wasn't Tullius who was willingly having contact with the Thalmor.

      One final point, last I checked Ulfric wasn't the one bringing Elenwen as plus 1 date.

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    • 81.225.121.84 wrote:

      One final point, last I checked Ulfric wasn't the one bringing Elenwen as plus 1 date.

      Oh and sorry another public comp, therefore different IP #.

      Still me, 80 etc

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    • 81.225.121.84 wrote:

      Oh and sorry another public comp, therefore different IP #.

      Still me, 80 etc

      Instead Ulfric has a one on one date with Elenwen during their nice little contact after the Great War as well as during the War.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      81.225.121.84 wrote:

      Oh and sorry another public comp, therefore different IP #.

      Still me, 80 etc

      Instead Ulfric has a one on one date with Elenwen during their nice little contact after the Great War as well as during the War.

      I believe he's just spamming now. He keeps going on when he knows we're correct. What do you think about Ulfric, now that he has won? "Ulfric coveted the High King's throne. He thought he deserved it more than Torygg. Now it would seem Ulfric has his wish. And there truly is no justice in the world."  Why did Ulfric kill your husband? "Because that's what traitorous cowards do when they desire power. Ulfric coveted the High King's throne. He thought he deserved it more than Torygg. And so he came before my husband and he... he shouted. With that terrible voice. Like something out of a legend... Or a nightmare. When Ulfric unleashed such fury, my husband he... he simply ceased to be. That is all I will say, for it grieves me to speak of it."  There. Discussions over. Ulfric is a murderer.

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    • To put this topic to rest, yes Talos has definitely given up on the "empire".

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    • The Reincarnation Of Akatosh wrote:
      Blademaster Jauffre wrote: Instead Ulfric has a one on one date with Elenwen during their nice little contact after the Great War as well as during the War.
      I believe he's just spamming now. He keeps going on when he knows we're correct. What do you think about Ulfric, now that he has won? "Ulfric coveted the High King's throne. He thought he deserved it more than Torygg. Now it would seem Ulfric has his wish. And there truly is no justice in the world."  Why did Ulfric kill your husband? "Because that's what traitorous cowards do when they desire power. Ulfric coveted the High King's throne. He thought he deserved it more than Torygg. And so he came before my husband and he... he shouted. With that terrible voice. Like something out of a legend... Or a nightmare. When Ulfric unleashed such fury, my husband he... he simply ceased to be. That is all I will say, for it grieves me to speak of it."  There. Discussions over. Ulfric is a murderer.

      Cause calling getting FC**NG tortured, having a date over what Tullius did which was personally invite and escort Elenwen is oh sure great..

      Yeah, I'm through with you two.

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    • 80.216.218.146 wrote:

      Cause calling getting FC**NG tortured, having a date over what Tullius did which was personally invite and escort Elenwen is oh sure great..

      Yeah, I'm through with you two.

      'After the war contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.' -Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak


      He wasn't tortured, he litterally established direct contact with them. 


      Talos would never abandon the Empire, the Imperials named him a god, it's his Empire and the Stormcloaks are the cause of his worship being opressed. If anything, he'd spit on the Stormcloaks. 

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      80.216.218.146 wrote:

      Cause calling getting FC**NG tortured, having a date over what Tullius did which was personally invite and escort Elenwen is oh sure great..

      Yeah, I'm through with you two.

      'After the war contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.' -Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak


      He wasn't tortured, he litterally established direct contact with them. 


      Talos would never abandon the Empire, the Imperials named him a god, it's his Empire and the Stormcloaks are the cause of his worship being opressed. If anything, he'd spit on the Stormcloaks. 

      He was tortured before the Great War ended and was led to believe that the Imperial City fell because of him when in reality it fell long before.

      Establishing direct contact is what enemies do at times when they don't kill each other openly.It doesns't say much.

      Talos already abandoned his empire and he said that it is time for something new.The empire fullfiled it's destiny in Oblivion,now it's time for it to fall like all the others.Imperials were the ones who banned his worship and abandoned the provinces he worked so hard to protect.If anything he would spit on the imperials and welcome the cjange of the Stormcloaks.

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    • 193.92.83.66 wrote:
      Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      80.216.218.146 wrote:

      Cause calling getting FC**NG tortured, having a date over what Tullius did which was personally invite and escort Elenwen is oh sure great..

      Yeah, I'm through with you two.

      'After the war contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.' -Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak


      He wasn't tortured, he litterally established direct contact with them. 


      Talos would never abandon the Empire, the Imperials named him a god, it's his Empire and the Stormcloaks are the cause of his worship being opressed. If anything, he'd spit on the Stormcloaks. 

      He was tortured before the Great War ended and was led to believe that the Imperial City fell because of him when in reality it fell long before.

      Establishing direct contact is what enemies do at times when they don't kill each other openly.It doesns't say much.

      Talos already abandoned his empire and he said that it is time for something new.The empire fullfiled it's destiny in Oblivion,now it's time for it to fall like all the others.Imperials were the ones who banned his worship and abandoned the provinces he worked so hard to protect.If anything he would spit on the imperials and welcome the change of the Stormcloaks.


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    • Talos didn't abandon the Empire because, after his death, he wasn't related to it. You can't abandon something if you haven't any control over it. He is the god of govermence and civil society, not the god of the Empire. Martin and Uriel weren't his descendants, Tiber Septim died heirless.

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    • 193.92.83.66 wrote:

      He was tortured before the Great War ended and was led to believe that the Imperial City fell because of him when in reality it fell long before.

      Establishing direct contact is what enemies do at times when they don't kill each other openly.It doesns't say much.

      Talos already abandoned his empire and he said that it is time for something new.The empire fullfiled it's destiny in Oblivion,now it's time for it to fall like all the others.Imperials were the ones who banned his worship and abandoned the provinces he worked so hard to protect.If anything he would spit on the imperials and welcome the cjange of the Stormcloaks.

      I know that.


      They established contact after the Great War had ended Ulfric made contact with them willingly.


      He never said it was time for a new Empire, only that it was time for a new ruler. Which has occured. The Septim Dynasty ended and the Medes now rule. The Empire doesn't enforce the ban and still worship him. They don't abandon his provinces either.

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    • I've never been convinced that Aedra are powerful enough in general to make a difference anyway. I don't think Talos is powerful enough on Tamriel to make a difference to either side.

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    • Bronkiin wrote:
      I've never been convinced that Aedra are powerful enough in general to make a difference anyway. I don't think Talos is powerful enough on Tamriel to make a difference to either side.

      Well Akatosh was able to keep the Daedra from invading. But yeah, I doubt Aedra by themselves are strong enough to really do anything. Especially the ones who ascended to godhood like Talos and Arkay.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      Bronkiin wrote:
      I've never been convinced that Aedra are powerful enough in general to make a difference anyway. I don't think Talos is powerful enough on Tamriel to make a difference to either side.

      Well Akatosh was able to keep the Daedra from invading. But yeah, I doubt Aedra by themselves are strong enough to really do anything. Especially the ones who ascended to godhood like Talos and Arkay.

      But Talos has achieved CHIM, he can essentially do anything he wants

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    • The imperial battlemage wrote:

      Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      Bronkiin wrote:
      I've never been convinced that Aedra are powerful enough in general to make a difference anyway. I don't think Talos is powerful enough on Tamriel to make a difference to either side.

      Well Akatosh was able to keep the Daedra from invading. But yeah, I doubt Aedra by themselves are strong enough to really do anything. Especially the ones who ascended to godhood like Talos and Arkay.

      But Talos has achieved CHIM, he can essentially do anything he wants

      oh and, btw, Akatosh was only able to interfere due to the destruction of the AoK

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    • "That we have forgotten them, this I fear the gods will remember." - Galmar Stone-Fist.

      It is an interesting question, but what if Talos knew that the people will give up on worshiping him in the future? This could have resulted in the end of the last Septim breed, leaving regular mortals to rule over themselves.

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    • Wulf only states that it might be time for a change, and states rather clearly that he has no idea what that change should be. Change can mean a lot of things, and it's too vague to count as a point that Talos himself is somehow mad at the Empire enough to turn his back on it. It could be that he meant a change of dynasties, which certainly happened with the rise of the Medes.

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    • Shigeru Thalmor Slayer wrote: Wulf only states that it might be time for a change, and states rather clearly that he has no idea what that change should be. Change can mean a lot of things, and it's too vague to count as a point that Talos himself is somehow mad at the Empire enough to turn his back on it. It could be that he meant a change of dynasties, which certainly happened with the rise of the Medes.

      exactly

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    • Dark Jeto wrote:
      It really strikes me as odd though. Did Talos actually know that Uriel was going to be the last Emperor (and I mean last as in the last that led the Empire. Martin doesn't count since he died before he had the chance to take the throne and lead)? Talos is supposed to be portrayed as the protector of civil society and just rulership, maybe he just doesn't see that in the Empire anymore.

      By the way, is Martin dead? I thought he was frozen as a living unmoveable statue, Otherwise the dragonfires would darken. And this might mean Talos either foresaw the Oblivion crisis, or the Stormcloak rebellion.

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    • Harold Burned-Mane wrote:

      196.210.131.9 wrote: The true Empire died with Martin Septim 200 years ago. The Mede Empire is a joke compared to Uriel VII,Talos and Martin.

      Perhaps Wulf/Tiber Septim forsaw the future of the septims.Mabye he knew that in 6 short years,the Septim bloodline would end,and so accepted it and decided to speak of it to the Nerrevarine

      Martin never actually ruled. The most he did was lead the Legions against the Daedra.

      The "Mede Empire" doesn't exist, as the Mede Dynasty still rule the Third Empire( which was created by Tiber Septim.). The Medes may not be "good" Emperors, but they are good Generals. What Titus II accomplished in the Battle of the Red Ring was impressive, probably the best battle the Empire fought in all its history.

      Funny you say that, since in The Elder Scrolls: Legends, it's actually stated that it wasn't even Titus Mede II that took back the Imperial City in the battle of the Red Ring, but in fact, it was the Forgotten Hero disguised as the emperor XD

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    • 179.197.161.117 wrote: Funny you say that, since in The Elder Scrolls: Legends, it's actually stated that it wasn't even Titus Mede II that took back the Imperial City in the battle of the Red Ring, but in fact, it was the Forgotten Hero disguised as the emperor XD

      Yes, Mede II may not have really retook the Imperial City.

      But Mede I conqeured the Imperial City, reclaimed High Rock and Hammerfell.

      Attrebus also took down Umbriel, and is the most likely explanation as to how Elsweyr and Morrowind returned to the Empire, though Elsweyr left later on again.

      Whatever the case, the Medes aren't bad commanders.

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    • What I find amusing (and irritating) in all of this, is why hasn't anyone directly asked one of the Aedra or one of the Daedric Princes if Talos is a Divine, and where he is, and what he is doing, exactly. You have the Thalmor claiming he isn't, the Nords and others claiming he is, yet out of all of them, nobody seems to bother to ask those who would actually know with 100% certainty.

      I bet Clavicus Vile would leap at the opportunity to make a deal in exchange for this information.

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    • 209.203.195.135 wrote:
      What I find amusing (and irritating) in all of this, is why hasn't anyone directly asked one of the Aedra or one of the Daedric Princes if Talos is a Divine, and where he is, and what he is doing, exactly. You have the Thalmor claiming he isn't, the Nords and others claiming he is, yet out of all of them, nobody seems to bother to ask those who would actually know with 100% certainty.

      I bet Clavicus Vile would leap at the opportunity to make a deal in exchange for this information.

      His divinity is proven in TES4 and TES3.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      His divinity is proven in TES4 and TES3.

      We as the players know that, but the people of Tamriel don't :P

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    • Draevan13 wrote:
      Blademaster Jauffre wrote:

      His divinity is proven in TES4 and TES3.

      We as the players know that, but the people of Tamriel don't :P

      You got a point.

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    • Personally, I don't see Empire's decline as some sort of spurn by the divine, but more like the natural decline of large imperial states. Like the Roman Empire, the Empire of Cyrodill just can't cope with the stresses of governing such a massive continent anymore. If the Dominion manages to conquer Tamriel and form their own empire, it'll probably happen to them at some point too.

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    • Personally, I see the Empire's decline as a fall of a dynasty which did happens during Oblivion. I don't see what Wulf said as Talos given up on the Empire, I see him wanting a change in dynasty and the dynasty changing the system. Titus Mede I created a new dynasty and TItus Mede II managed to hold it together for a time being. I believe it still remains to see if the Mede Dynasty are to continue surviving or be destroyed.

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