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  • AzuraKnight
    AzuraKnight closed this thread because:
    Off topic.
    12:14, January 25, 2016

    How can the emperor and the penitus oculatus be in Skyrim, if the stormcloaks has won the civil war? I know it would ruin the dark brotherhood questline, but think of it otherwise. How can the emperor Titus Mede II and the penitus oculatus be in Skyrim, if the stormcloaks has won the civil war, before you complete the dark brotherhood questline, since the empire has been kicket out of Skyrim. Have you guys any ideas?

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    • Purely because of what you stated, it'd ruin the Dark Brotherhood questline. There's no real reasoning as to why/why not, just for consistent gameplay. I'm sure there are copious amounts of mods that sort crap like that out, but otherwise it's just so the game doesn't get to a point that it's unplayable.

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    • It seems canonically the Dark Brotherhood questline occurs before the Civil War questline.

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    • Just to provide justification, maybe it's to improve diplomatic ties with Skyrim?  While they are an indepedant province it would be silly not to have trade agreements, etc with the empire.

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    • In the Dark Brothhood questline you have to kill the Emperor's cousin. It could be that he came to mourn her death and support his family.

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    • ScholarOfTheScrolls wrote:
      It seems canonically the Dark Brotherhood questline occurs before the Civil War questline.

      Trashy storyline. If that happen then the empire is no more, because the Thalmor will make sure that there are not going to be another empeor again. The filthy little man is a Thalmor lover who send the dark brotherhood to end the empire once and for all. All this happened just becase of this little man. Beat him with both hand after complete the dark brotherhood questline.

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    • 67.6.39.227 wrote:
      ScholarOfTheScrolls wrote:
      It seems canonically the Dark Brotherhood questline occurs before the Civil War questline.
      Trashy storyline. If that happen then the empire is no more, because the Thalmor will make sure that there are not going to be another empeor again. The filthy little man is a Thalmor lover who send the dark brotherhood to end the empire once and for all. All this happened just becase of this little man. Beat him with both hand after complete the dark brotherhood questline.

      What makes you think he's a Thalmor agent? You need to give proof of this before you go around exclaiming it.

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    • Segreagation between Lore/Gameplay here. You can't deny the player hours of game content unless he specifically denies them. I killed Astrid, knowingly shutting me out of the Dark Brotherhood questline because I care about the Empire, but if you choose to be a Stormcloak AND Listener, it would be poor customer service to deny you the opportunity to play both.

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    • Actually he's in Skyrim because you've murdered his cousin and he came for the funeral. The Penitus Oculatus are his royal guard and would go with him. Somebody says that he's been drawn by Vittoria's murder. I think it was Astrid, but I haven't played the DB yet on this runthrough, so I could be remembering who exactly informs you of this incorrectly.

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    • Spartan Jack 17 wrote: Just to provide justification, maybe it's to improve diplomatic ties with Skyrim?  While they are an indepedant province it would be silly not to have trade agreements, etc with the empire.

      But still surely Ulfric would have ordered you (provided you've been named stormblade or at least in the rebellion) to do something along the lines of killing the emperor and/or his cousin.

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    • I don't think that Ulfric hates the Emperor. He was in the Legion, after all. However, he saw what they'd become under Thalmor occupation and decided that it was necessary to break off. After he has his independence, what does he stand to gain by assassinating the Emperor, except that he would draw the ire of the Empire and provoke revenge attacks?

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    • same thing here

      it could be that ulfric was like " you know what..im going to make an exeption...your cousin died...so0 you can come..we will not kill you"

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    • The Stormcloaks in Solitude actually complain about the emperor being in Skyrim; anyways it's the Thalmor the Stormcloaks are against not necessarily the Empire.

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    • Maybe to talk with Ulfric personally about the conflict in Skyrim or to assist to his cousin's funeral.

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    • 186.137.154.220 wrote:
      Maybe to talk with Ulfric personally about the conflict in Skyrim or to assist to his cousin's funeral.

      Even if Skyrim is no longer of the empire, why the emperor cant visit that place anymore in peace without bloodshed?

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    • 186.137.154.220 wrote:
      186.137.154.220 wrote:
      Maybe to talk with Ulfric personally about the conflict in Skyrim or to assist to his cousin's funeral.
      Even if Skyrim is no longer of the empire, why the emperor cant visit that place anymore in peace without bloodshed?

      If i'm and Stormcloak i have no problem during the questiline in killing him, after all we are in war, but if the war has ended i understand that it is a sort of "retribution" that my character is doing against him.

      The thing changes if you are a member of the Legion, i mean, why would you kill the same emperor you serve, protect and defend?

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    • I justified it by saying that Tulius' legion went rogue, assassinating a weak Emperor who was preventing them from taking effective action.

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    • Coppermantis wrote:
      I justified it by saying that Tulius' legion went rogue, assassinating a weak Emperor who was preventing them from taking effective action.


      That's what i do to XD.

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    • My original thoughts were "Because Nords don't join the Dark Brotherhood", but then Arnbjorn. So that went out the window.


      Because Stormcloaks don't join the Dark Brotherhood?

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    • 99.179.25.8 wrote:
      My original thoughts were "Because Nords don't join the Dark Brotherhood", but then Arnbjorn. So that went out the window.


      Because Stormcloaks don't join the Dark Brotherhood?


      Yes they do.

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    • Becuase the emporers cosin got married in skyrim when you killed her so the emperor had to come to skyrim to take care of things and prevent more war.

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    • Well, the wonderful thing about an RPG of this nature is that it leaves a bit to the imagination.  How you flesh out (and perceive) the stories and motives of people and factions within YOUR Skyrim are entirely up to you.  

      Completing the civil war questline on the side of the Stormcloaks, then one could consider this to be a ploy by Ulfric to assassinate the Emperor or otherwise place him into harms way for betraying his years of loyal service in the legion by signing the White-Gold Concordat.  Or, Ulfric could be genuine in his offer and be honorable in allowing the Emperor to visit his deceased kin and the setting up of the assassination could purely be the machination of another individual.  

      Whereas completing the civil war questline on the side of the Imperials, as I have done on my current playthrough, and then plotting to assassinate the Emperor, could be explained rationally as well.  Perhaps the Dragonborn was disgusted by the Thalmor of the Aldmeri Dominion whom opress other species and condemn non-mer (non-elves) as inferior.  However, after reading the Thalmor Dossier, the Dragonborn learns that it is in the Dominion's best interests if the Empire becomes fractured, divided and weak.  (Dossier mentions Ulfric Stormcloak as an "Asset" if memory serves.) Looking at the larger picture, the Dragonborn could join the Imperial Legion because he/she actually despise the Thalmor and therefore wants the Empire to be strong again so that it can fight (and win) and NEXT Great War.  (Since the Thalmor call the Great War the "First Great War" they likely already have another assault planned.)  For me, personally, I had a heavy heart when killing Ulfric Stormcloak, and I resolved to make the Thalmor pay as I killed him.  After all, it was due in no small part to Thalmor manipulation that he ended up in the position he was in, emotionally and mentally, so I felt bad for him.  It was at this time that I personally resolved to assassinate the Emperor because in the long run, I felt his death could actually help unite the Empire.  I felt there would likely be too many Ulfric Stormcloaks within the Empire for everyone to ever be united together under Titus Mede II.  As such, I resolved to remove him.  (And I did.)  As for the future (beyond gameplay) I would surmise that the Last Dragonborn would follow in the footsteps of prior Dragonborn Talos and unite the Empire once again; perhaps becoming Emperor himself, or at least the next Emperor's right hand.  In this scenario, I see the Last Dragonborn eventually bringing the lands that ceded from the Empire back together and rallying a unified and restored Empire against the oppressive Thalmor and Aldmeri Dominion.  (And eventually re-establishing stability and peace across Tamriel; perhaps even issuing a Concordat of our own on Dominion soil decreeing the permanent disbandment of the Thalmor.)  However, this is just how I choose to perceive things in this scenario.  

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    • To sign at ceasefire while visiting his cousins wedding?

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    • Because you're a traitor to the Empire you uncultured swine

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    • I think that little pric who orders the listener to kill the emperor and his cousin is the next one in sucession line, like if  Titus Mede and his cousin were killed,he would become emperor. It isn't the first time in history people kill for a throne

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    • We will never know Armaund Motierre's intentions for killing the emperor, as he will not say, and it is not the place of the Brotherhood to ask questions. Motierre performing the Black Sacrament represents a contract, bound in blood, and to not go through with the kill is defying the will of Sithis. When you join the Dark Brotherhood, you swear loyalty to the Dread Father and to his unholy mistress, the Night Mother. Abandoning the Five Tenets was the worst mistake the Brotherhood ever made. Now, the pretender Astrid will have to answer to Sithis in the Void for her crimes against her brothers and sisters and against the Night Mother. HAIL SITHIS!

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    • We might never know, but maybe if Motierre becomes emperor we will know.

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    • PaladinFelipe wrote:
      We might never know, but maybe if Motierre becomes emperor we will know.

      he wont be emperor, there's an option to kill him too, so it's extremely unlikely that he'd survive past that.

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    • 186.137.154.220 wrote:
      186.137.154.220 wrote:
      186.137.154.220 wrote:
      Maybe to talk with Ulfric personally about the conflict in Skyrim or to assist to his cousin's funeral.
      Even if Skyrim is no longer of the empire, why the emperor cant visit that place anymore in peace without bloodshed?
      If i'm and Stormcloak i have no problem during the questiline in killing him, after all we are in war, but if the war has ended i understand that it is a sort of "retribution" that my character is doing against him.

      The thing changes if you are a member of the Legion, i mean, why would you kill the same emperor you serve, protect and defend?

      I'm whit the legion and i killed him for being a useless emperor his treaties, decisions where terrible and caused the empire to lose Hammerfell.His heir to the throne might end being a better emperor.

      i would not be surprised if Tulius had something to do whit the assassination contract.

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    • The stormcloaks are against the thalmor, THE WHITE-GOLD CONCORDAT! The thalmor corrupted the legion and banned talos worship. THERE YOU HAVE IT! THE UGLY TRUTH

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    • Technically it isnt the empires fault, the aldmeri dominion would have killed all of them if they didnt accept the white-gold concordat

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    • 83.216.110.86 wrote:
      The stormcloaks are against the thalmor, THE WHITE-GOLD CONCORDAT! The thalmor corrupted the legion and banned talos worship. THERE YOU HAVE IT! THE UGLY TRUTH


      Alright, which one of you let Hiemskr in here?

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    • 83.216.110.86 wrote:
      Technically it isnt the empires fault, the aldmeri dominion would have killed all of them if they didnt accept the white-gold concordat

      That's a myth.

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    • 83.216.110.86 wrote:
      Technically it isnt the empires fault, the aldmeri dominion would have killed all of them if they didnt accept the white-gold concordat

      no they couldn't, the Aldmeri dominion's only soldiers remaining after the battle of red ring where those that were in hammerfell getting beat down by the redguards, the empire could have sent an army to help them deal with them and the AD would have been left with no solders at all, and they wouldn't have sold out Hammerfell.

      But that's an argument for a dofferent thread.

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    • hey,what if it's the entire council of elders who ordered the assassination and now it will be the entire group who leads what used to be the empire?

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    • Actually, I kind of liked the Empire, but my Breton DB believed (in my headcanon at least) that all true emperors were DB (which is why she, as legate in the legion still stabbed the Emperor)

      My current DB doesn't care a whit about the Empire and joined the Stormcloaks mainly because she hates the Thalmor (she is a bosmer, her family died in a Thalmor purge) and Ulfric hates too; she had no problems killing the Emperor (although she liked slitting Elenwen's throat inside High Hrotgar more)

      My next DB will be Imperial and will destroy the Dark Brotherhood

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    • Coppermantis wrote:
      I don't think that Ulfric hates the Emperor. He was in the Legion, after all. However, he saw what they'd become under Thalmor occupation and decided that it was necessary to break off. After he has his independence, what does he stand to gain by assassinating the Emperor, except that he would draw the ire of the Empire and provoke revenge attacks?

      I agree with this. imo Even though the Stormcloaks hate the Empire, they still respect the Emperor in a way, as even Stormcloak-based guards still comment/lament on his death after the completion of Hail Sithis; "The Emperor of Tamriel. Dead. These are dark times, my friend. Dark times indeed."

      Also, if the Stormcloaks won the Civil War and after you kill the decoy Emperor during To kill an Empire, Stormcloak Guards in Solitude will still attempt to arrest you for an attempt on the Emperor's life.

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    • HumbleDaedricServant wrote:
      Coppermantis wrote:
      I don't think that Ulfric hates the Emperor. He was in the Legion, after all. However, he saw what they'd become under Thalmor occupation and decided that it was necessary to break off. After he has his independence, what does he stand to gain by assassinating the Emperor, except that he would draw the ire of the Empire and provoke revenge attacks?
      I agree with this. imo Even though the Stormcloaks hate the Empire, they still respect the Emperor in a way, as even Stormcloak-based guards still comment/lament on his death after the completion of Hail Sithis; "The Emperor of Tamriel. Dead. These are dark times, my friend. Dark times indeed."

      Also, if the Stormcloaks won the Civil War and after you kill the decoy Emperor during To kill an Empire, Stormcloak Guards in Solitude will still attempt to arrest you for an attempt on the Emperor's life.


      those are related to gameplay mechanic.

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    • Linkmadara wrote:


      Those are related to gameplay mechanic.

      Yes and no. Even if you do finish the DB questline while not completing the CW, Stormcloak-based guards still lament the Emperor's fate (being killed by the Listener).

      Anyway, let's stay on topic.

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    • To be correct Astrid wanted to get the Emperor out his little palace in the Imperial City and wanted to get him in Skyrim. Ofcourse the emperor isn't just going to oblige the wish of a stranger so on the cousin must be murdered. Since she was buried in the hall of death the emperor was forced to go to Solitude to attend the burial. Then you must murder him in the Castle Dour but that kinda failed. Afterwards you must kill him on his ship. About the Stormcloacks: Ulfric Stormcloackis more out for power then for his belief. He gathered an army to become the High King. But he actuelly let's the embassy and Northwatch Keep from the Thalmor still operating.I think he doesn't care much about the Thalmor and the Empire after he became High King. Too it would be a scandel If Ulfric Stormcloack didn't allowed it to let the Emperor attend the burial of her own cousin. Totally since the Nords belief so much in gods it would be a mess. And the most important reason... He needs to rebuild the mess he created. He probaly run out of weapons, wood,stone and manpower.

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    • ScholarOfTheScrolls wrote:
      It seems canonically the Dark Brotherhood questline occurs before the Civil War questline.

      Except the Dark Brotherhood is neither canon nor did it say ANYWHERE that it HAS to take place before the civil war.

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    • What's weirder is that commander maro's son inspected windhelm's stormcloak garrison

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    • Very simple, Skyrim isn't at war with the Empire. It's in rebellion, of course, but as such, once the rebels have won, they have no intention to go at war with the Empire, they want their independance and if the Stormcloaks allow Tidus Medes II to die in Skyrim, that would cause even further frictions with Cyrodill, making it harder to resume peaceful relations in the future. Ulfric says so himself at some point. 

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    • When the Stormcloaks win, they start focusing on diplomatic ties with the Empire. Think about it, once the United States won independence, didnt they go to peace? Now we're great allys. It's the same in Skyrim, once the Empire admits defeat, they figure all they can do is try to work together. Deep down, they all know they will have to team up and defeat the Thalmor once and for all.

      And personally, I think of the Penitus Oculatus Outpost as the Imperial Embassy in Skyrim for diplomacy.

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    • Scott209 wrote:
      When the Stormcloaks win, they start focusing on diplomatic ties with the Empire. Think about it, once the United States won independence, didnt they go to peace? Now we're great allys. It's the same in Skyrim, once the Empire admits defeat, they figure all they can do is try to work together. Deep down, they all know they will have to team up and defeat the Thalmor once and for all.

      And personally, I think of the Penitus Oculatus Outpost as the Imperial Embassy in Skyrim for diplomacy.

      The United States and Skyrim aren't the same. Let's be honest,North-America was in the 18-19th century one of the most isolated and disadvenced regions in the world. Can't say that it hasn't become better since their independence. Skyrim is far more advanced then the native tribes of America. And Skyrim really wants to have peace after their independence. 

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    • As it was stated somewhere above Ulfric probably wants peace now, so he wouldn't provoke the Empire further, also Vittoria Vici is still a strong public figure in Solitude so anyone important i.e. The Emperor coming to her funeral would be protected.

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    • It doesn't make sense and there's no way to wiggle out of it. The emperor simply would not come to Skyrim in this sort of situation, unless he was an absolute fool. Which, perhaps, he was. 

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    • TiberCaesarAndRepublicOfTamriel wrote:
      It doesn't make sense and there's no way to wiggle out of it. The emperor simply would not come to Skyrim in this sort of situation, unless he was an absolute fool. Which, perhaps, he was. 

      It's not because modern day politicains are cowards the Emperor is a coward.

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    • If I'm not mistaken I did not know if the Stormcloaks won the civil war. If they didn't, like I thought, then the Imperials still have reign in Skyrim. Meaning the Emperor and the Penitus Oculatus can come there in Skyrim. Again if I'm mistaken the Dragonborn gets to decide what side to be on, I chose the Stormcloak side, and basicly win the civil war. So no, it would not ruin the story line and the Imperials can come to Skyrim.

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    • Lmanb63 wrote:
      If I'm not mistaken I did not know if the Stormcloaks won the civil war. If they didn't, like I thought, then the Imperials still have reign in Skyrim. Meaning the Emperor and the Penitus Oculatus can come there in Skyrim. Again if I'm mistaken the Dragonborn gets to decide what side to be on, I chose the Stormcloak side, and basicly win the civil war. So no, it would not ruin the story line and the Imperials can come to Skyrim.

      You can choose who you join.

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    • Answering the original question, here's how:

      Assuming the Stormcloaks took over Skyrim, then it's now an independent nation. Skyrim and the Empire now have no more reason to be at war with each other; the Stormcloaks' objective was to gain independence and they achieved their objective, the Empire tried to prevent that but failed. Moving forward, there's few reasons for these two nations to be at war with each other, and all of these aren't practival or helpful to either of them.

      One could say that Skyrim would attack the Empire (Invading Cyrodil) as retribution for all the blood they lost while gaining independence, but their forces are already exhausted and streched thin throughout Skyrim they would risk losing the war and then losing their independence again. Not to mention, they never really had that objective, their only objective was independence.

      Another scenario is the Empire sending troops to take skyrim back, now this they would never do, because their resources are really streched thin as well, with the danger from the dominion, even during the civil war in Skyrim, general tullius said that the Empire would not send any reinforcements because they can't afford it, so it would make less sense to send troops after the war is over.

      So, it seems that the Empire and Stormcloak-independent-Skyrim have no reason to be at war with each other, actually they should start considering becoming allies (yet still independent), since both nations are in danger from the Dominion. So, yes, it makes sense for the Emperor to be in Skyrim even if the Stormcloaks have won the war, to start piece and planning for the future. Afterall, Titus Mede II is a wise person, and he knows very well how to make peace with people who he had faught with before ;)

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    • The same way that Marro Jr. is able to travel to Windhelm, where I normally goad him into attacking me and let the Stormcloak/Windhelm guards kill him for me.  Even if the Stormcloaks win, then it would still take some time to disband the Imperial State in Skyrim, so there will still be Legion Camps, and such while the Imperials withdraw, not to mention Nords still serving with the Legion would be making up their minds to retuen to the Imperial Province to sweal fealty to the new government.

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    • 75.179.148.229 wrote:
      We will never know Armaund Motierre's intentions for killing the emperor, as he will not say, and it is not the place of the Brotherhood to ask questions. Motierre performing the Black Sacrament represents a contract, bound in blood, and to not go through with the kill is defying the will of Sithis. When you join the Dark Brotherhood, you swear loyalty to the Dread Father and to his unholy mistress, the Night Mother. Abandoning the Five Tenets was the worst mistake the Brotherhood ever made. Now, the pretender Astrid will have to answer to Sithis in the Void for her crimes against her brothers and sisters and against the Night Mother. HAIL SITHIS!

      Hail Sithis. While all of this is true, we do have an idea of what Amaund has in mind because Astrid makes a comment about Amaund rising above his station. He may not become emperor necessarily,  but it would definitely be someone with his faction and he's getting a slice of that pie. 

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    • 98.127.106.53 wrote:
      75.179.148.229 wrote:
      We will never know Armaund Motierre's intentions for killing the emperor, as he will not say, and it is not the place of the Brotherhood to ask questions. Motierre performing the Black Sacrament represents a contract, bound in blood, and to not go through with the kill is defying the will of Sithis. When you join the Dark Brotherhood, you swear loyalty to the Dread Father and to his unholy mistress, the Night Mother. Abandoning the Five Tenets was the worst mistake the Brotherhood ever made. Now, the pretender Astrid will have to answer to Sithis in the Void for her crimes against her brothers and sisters and against the Night Mother. HAIL SITHIS!
      Hail Sithis. While all of this is true, we do have an idea of what Amaund has in mind because Astrid makes a comment about Amaund rising above his station. He may not become emperor necessarily,  but it would definitely be someone with his faction and he's getting a slice of that pie. 

      Amaund is dead, lore-wise he's dead.

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    • Because canonically the empire wins.

      (Flame war commence)

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    • 109.171.137.235 wrote:
      Answering the original question, here's how:

      Assuming the Stormcloaks took over Skyrim, then it's now an independent nation. Skyrim and the Empire now have no more reason to be at war with each other; the Stormcloaks' objective was to gain independence and they achieved their objective, the Empire tried to prevent that but failed. Moving forward, there's few reasons for these two nations to be at war with each other, and all of these aren't practival or helpful to either of them.

      One could say that Skyrim would attack the Empire (Invading Cyrodil) as retribution for all the blood they lost while gaining independence, but their forces are already exhausted and streched thin throughout Skyrim they would risk losing the war and then losing their independence again. Not to mention, they never really had that objective, their only objective was independence.

      Another scenario is the Empire sending troops to take skyrim back, now this they would never do, because their resources are really streched thin as well, with the danger from the dominion, even during the civil war in Skyrim, general tullius said that the Empire would not send any reinforcements because they can't afford it, so it would make less sense to send troops after the war is over.

      So, it seems that the Empire and Stormcloak-independent-Skyrim have no reason to be at war with each other, actually they should start considering becoming allies (yet still independent), since both nations are in danger from the Dominion. So, yes, it makes sense for the Emperor to be in Skyrim even if the Stormcloaks have won the war, to start piece and planning for the future. Afterall, Titus Mede II is a wise person, and he knows very well how to make peace with people who he had faught with before ;)

      While this does make sense, I sense A LOT of Stormcloaks would want the Emperor's head. After all, he was the one who signed the White-Gold Concordat.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      98.127.106.53 wrote:
      75.179.148.229 wrote:
      We will never know Armaund Motierre's intentions for killing the emperor, as he will not say, and it is not the place of the Brotherhood to ask questions. Motierre performing the Black Sacrament represents a contract, bound in blood, and to not go through with the kill is defying the will of Sithis. When you join the Dark Brotherhood, you swear loyalty to the Dread Father and to his unholy mistress, the Night Mother. Abandoning the Five Tenets was the worst mistake the Brotherhood ever made. Now, the pretender Astrid will have to answer to Sithis in the Void for her crimes against her brothers and sisters and against the Night Mother. HAIL SITHIS!
      Hail Sithis. While all of this is true, we do have an idea of what Amaund has in mind because Astrid makes a comment about Amaund rising above his station. He may not become emperor necessarily,  but it would definitely be someone with his faction and he's getting a slice of that pie. 
      Amaund is dead, lore-wise he's dead.

      Source please?

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    • Rukathesoldier wrote:
      Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      98.127.106.53 wrote:
      75.179.148.229 wrote:
      We will never know Armaund Motierre's intentions for killing the emperor, as he will not say, and it is not the place of the Brotherhood to ask questions. Motierre performing the Black Sacrament...
      Hail Sithis. While all of this is true, we do have an idea of what Amaund has in mind because Astrid makes a comment about Amaund rising above his station. He may not become emperor necessarily...
      Amaund is dead, lore-wise he's dead.
      Source please?

      I want it too. Never heard this before.

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    • Pie1997 wrote:
      Rukathesoldier wrote:
      Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      98.127.106.53 wrote:
      75.179.148.229 wrote:
      We will never know Armaund Motierre's intentions for killing the emperor, as he will not say, and it is not the place of the Brotherhood to ask questions. Motierre performing the Black Sacrament...
      Hail Sithis. While all of this is true, we do have an idea of what Amaund has in mind because Astrid makes a comment about Amaund rising above his station. He may not become emperor necessarily...
      Amaund is dead, lore-wise he's dead.
      Source please?
      I want it too. Never heard this before.

      Anybody that can be killed because of a quest will die lore-wise, somebody can't live if you have the option to kill him. It's the same reason the Emperor dies, he can't survive, otherwise it would go against the game, for the same reason the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim will die off one way or another.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      Pie1997 wrote:
      Rukathesoldier wrote:
      Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      98.127.106.53 wrote:
      75.179.148.229 wrote:
      We will never know Armaund Motierre's intentions for killing the emperor, as he will not say, and it is not the place of the Brotherhood to ask questions. Motierre performing the Black ...
      Hail Sithis. While all of this is true, we do have an idea of what Amaund has in mind because Astrid makes a comment about Amaund rising above his station. He may not become emperor...
      Amaund is dead, lore-wise he's dead.
      Source please?
      I want it too. Never heard this before.
      Anybody that can be killed because of a quest will die lore-wise, somebody can't live if you have the option to kill him. It's the same reason the Emperor dies, he can't survive, otherwise it would go against the game, for the...

      Thanks.

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    • Neloth is one of the targets you have to kill in the Morrowind quest Kill the Telvanni Councilors, but he then appears in Dragonborn.

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    • AzuraKnight wrote:
      Neloth is one of the targets you have to kill in the Morrowind quest Kill the Telvanni Councilors, but he then appears in Dragonborn.

      If it's the same Neloth, shame on Bethesda, it really kills the whole thing that you feel like you did something. I wouldn't like completing the Oblivion questline only to find Martin Septim in the next Elder Scrolls game, shame on you Bethesda.

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    • By making Neloth appear they kind of made is canon that the nerevarine kills the archmage before doing that task

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    • WrathOfHircine wrote:
      By making Neloth appear they kind of made is canon that the nerevarine kills the archmage before doing that task

      Well what would be the point of completing that quest anyway when it has no effect on the next ES games? Bethesda was just lazy, all they needed to do is change on name, but no, that would be too much. See, this is what happens when you use different teams for the same series.

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    • The Emperor can walk all over Skyrim if he wants. What is Ulfric or his Stormcloaks gonna do about it? Kill the Emperor? And risk war with the Empire? They just won their independence through copious amounts of bloodshed. They don't want to recklessly lose it again.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      WrathOfHircine wrote:
      By making Neloth appear they kind of made is canon that the nerevarine kills the archmage before doing that task
      Well what would be the point of completing that quest anyway when it has no effect on the next ES games? Bethesda was just lazy, all they needed to do is change on name, but no, that would be too much. See, this is what happens when you use different teams for the same series.

      I think they actualy planned it as they removed the Morag Tong and another quest that you killed him

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    • WrathOfHircine wrote:
      Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      WrathOfHircine wrote:
      By making Neloth appear they kind of made is canon that the nerevarine kills the archmage before doing that task
      Well what would be the point of completing that quest anyway when it has no effect on the next ES games? Bethesda was just lazy, all they needed to do is change on name, but no, that would be too much. See, this is what happens when you use different teams for the same series.
      I think they actualy planned it as they removed the Morag Tong and another quest that you killed him

      They didnt remove the Morag Tong, and in the other quest you wouldn't kill him, but renounce him.

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    • Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      WrathOfHircine wrote:
      Blademaster Jauffre wrote:
      WrathOfHircine wrote:
      By making Neloth appear they kind of made is canon that the nerevarine kills the archmage before doing that task
      Well what would be the point of completing that quest anyway when it has no effect on the next ES games? Bethesda was just lazy, all they needed to do is change on name, but no, that would be too much. See, this is what happens when you use different teams for the same series.
      I think they actualy planned it as they removed the Morag Tong and another quest that you killed him
      They didnt remove the Morag Tong, and in the other quest you wouldn't kill him, but renounce him.

      I meant the Morag Tong writ, not the quest line

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    • 99.179.25.8 wrote:
      My original thoughts were "Because Nords don't join the Dark Brotherhood", but then Arnbjorn. So that went out the window.


      Because Stormcloaks don't join the Dark Brotherhood?

      Astrid, Festus Krex, and Babette are all nords as well as Arnbjorn. Basically, the Dark Brotherhood is on the Stormcloak's side or they're leaving them alone at the very least.

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    • Babette is a Breton and Festus is old (gamewise thats a race) i always assume he's a Breton but his name sound a bit Imperial his actual race is never given i don't think. And there is Gabriella. The Dark Brotherhood is probably on the side of who ever pays them to kill at the time. One assassination target wears Stormcloak Officer Armor but she might not be a Stormcloak.

      For the original questing it probably is because it would ruin the questline, you could say Titus Mede was maybe there to try and reach out to Ulfric one last time as well as his cousins murder. The Penitus Oculatus are the Imperial secret service though, now the Blades are pretty much gone they should be everywhere the Empire has any interest although a lower profile would help.

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    • AzuraKnight wrote:
      Babette is a Breton and Festus is old (gamewise thats a race) i always assume he's a Breton but his name sound a bit Imperial his actual race is never given i don't think. And there is Gabriella. The Dark Brotherhood is probably on the side of who ever pays them to kill at the time. One assassination target wears Stormcloak Officer Armor but she might not be a Stormcloak.

      Babette is a Breton???? I thought all children were nords. Strange... Well, Festus could be a nord elder? Gabriella is a dunmer, no question about it. Ah, you got me.

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    • Silver4Raven wrote:
      AzuraKnight wrote:
      Babette is a Breton and Festus is old (gamewise thats a race) i always assume he's a Breton but his name sound a bit Imperial his actual race is never given i don't think...
      Babette is a Breton???? I thought all children were nords. Strange... Well, Festus could be a nord elder? Gabriella is a dunmer, no question about it. Ah, you got me.

      Names, Festus means festival in latim, latim names are usualy used by imperias

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    • AzuraKnight
      AzuraKnight removed this reply because:
      Only pointing out spelling mistakes.
      20:21, December 23, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • It doesn't matter who wins the civil war , either way skyrim will help the empire in the second Great War as an imperial province or as an independent nation. I prefer an independent nation therefore I choose the Stormcloaks.

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