FANDOM


  • Lore wise, how powerful is the last dragonborn exactly compare to other beings?

    It is stated by Clavicus Vile that the last dragonborn is half as powerful as a daedric prince. He also manage to defeat alduin, so how strong is he compare to the other beings?

    I would think he is below the Aedra but above all mortals, with a tier list like this:

    1:Godhead 2:Anu/Sithis 3:Talos 4:Daedra 5:Aedra 6:Dragonborn 7:alduin,Nereverine 8:dragons 9:mortals 10:horker

      Loading editor
    • Alduin, however, wasn't comepletely defeated, since the Dragonborn didn't absorb his soul. And I think clavicus vile is considered as one of the weaker princes, but I'm just speculating here.

        Loading editor
    • Alduin, lorewise, is stronger than the daedric princes, the Dragonborn defeats Alduin by stripping his power from him, and even then they couldn't destroy him. I don't think Vile is considered weak by anyone, and his sphere, power through pacts and rituals, is massive. Considering what Miraak was able to do, I'd say the Dragonborn is pretty powerful, and if you consider them a Shezarrine, even more so. Now that I think on it, Vile could just be making arbitraty statements and the Dragonborn could still become vastly more powerful than they are now. The Nerevarine probably is in the same tier as them, as well. Shouting isn't where the Dragonborn's true power comes from. 

        Loading editor
    • Br3admax wrote:
      Alduin, lorewise, is stronger than the daedric princes, the Dragonborn defeats Alduin by stripping his power from him, and even then they couldn't destroy him. I don't think Vile is considered weak by anyone, and his sphere, power through pacts and rituals, is massive. Considering what Miraak was able to do, I'd say the Dragonborn is pretty powerful, and if you consider them a Shezarrine, even more so. Now that I think on it, Vile could just be making arbitraty statements and the Dragonborn could still become vastly more powerful than they are now. The Nerevarine probably is in the same tier as them, as well. Shouting isn't where the Dragonborn's true power comes from. 

      How is alduin stronger than the daedra? Since alduin is only the son/aspect of akatosh, who is an aedra

        Loading editor
    • The Aedra are never implied to be weaker than the Daedra. It is only that they gave up their power and require worship to still function. They are still pretty damn powerful. Alduin is the one who created Mehrunes Dagon. Lore-wise he consumes the entire planet of Nirn and eats spirits and souls to grow stronger. It's implied that he is weakened in Skyrim only because he was slacking off in his duties. 

        Loading editor
    • Br3admax wrote:
      Alduin, lorewise, is stronger than the daedric princes

      hes Akatosh's son and Akatosh and Merhunes Dagon seemed evenly matched in Oblivion when they faught, both exchanged a number of blows and hurt each other before Akatosh finished him.

      if hes his son hes obviously strong and part diety but not as strong

        Loading editor
    • JillKill87 wrote:
      Br3admax wrote:
      Alduin, lorewise, is stronger than the daedric princes
      hes Akatosh's son and Akatosh and Merhunes Dagon seemed evenly matched in Oblivion when they faught, both exchanged a number of blows and hurt each other before Akatosh finished him.

      if hes his son hes obviously strong and part diety but not as strong

      They fought on Nirn. Daedric princes are weaker on Nirn than in Oblivion. Also it wasn't actually Akatosh. Just an aspect of him. Also Alduin is not exactly Akatosh's son. He is something called a Mirror brother. I don't understand the concept very well so I can't explain it. 

        Loading editor
    • JillKill87 wrote:
      Br3admax wrote:
      Alduin, lorewise, is stronger than the daedric princes
      hes Akatosh's son and Akatosh and Merhunes Dagon seemed evenly matched in Oblivion when they faught, both exchanged a number of blows and hurt each other before Akatosh finished him.

      if hes his son hes obviously strong and part diety but not as strong

      Alduin is Akatosh's son in a similar way to Shor being the son of Shor. It doesn't work the way you think it does. Mehrunes Dagon wasn't a match for Akatosh, Dagon fought evenly with an avatar of Akatosh, who doesn't hold nearly his level of power. And Alduin doesn't need to be as strong as Akatosh to be stronger than Dagon, even if this last statement is made off of an assumption. 

        Loading editor
    • Br3admax wrote:
      JillKill87 wrote:
      Br3admax wrote:
      Alduin, lorewise, is stronger than the daedric princes
      hes Akatosh's son and Akatosh and Merhunes Dagon seemed evenly matched in Oblivion when they faught, both exchanged a number of blows and hurt each other before Akatosh finished him.

      if hes his son hes obviously strong and part diety but not as strong

      Alduin is Akatosh's son in a similar way to Shor being the son of Shor. It doesn't work the way you think it does. Mehrunes Dagon wasn't a match for Akatosh, Dagon fought evenly with an avatar of Akatosh, who doesn't hold nearly his level of power. And Alduin doesn't need to be as strong as Akatosh to be stronger than Dagon, even if this last statement is made off of an assumption. 

      "Dagon fought evenly with an avatar of Akatosh, who doesn't hold nearly his level of power."

      in mythology avatars do have all the powers of the god they are representing, look up hinduism's avatars (the only definition of avatar actually). there is no other definition so its the same here as it would be in any lore.

      you kinda need to be strong as your deity father to be stronger then a deity he faught evenly against. not to mention if the Aedra were that much stronger then the Daedra then before Nirn was created they would have wiped them out, dont you think?

        Loading editor
    • JillKill87 wrote:
      "Dagon fought evenly with an avatar of Akatosh, who doesn't hold nearly his level of power."

      in mythology avatars do have all the powers of the god they are representing, look up hinduism's avatars (the only definition of avatar actually). there is no other definition so its the same here as it would be in any lore.

      Not only is this not mythology, this isn't even true across every irl religion. No avatar of a god on Mundas has ever had all of it's power. Mehrunes Dagon didn't have all of his power, and neither did Akatosh. Pelinal didn't have all the power of Aka or Shezarr. 

      you kinda need to be strong as your deity father to be stronger then a deity he faught evenly against. not to mention if the Aedra were that much stronger then the Daedra then before Nirn was created they would have wiped them out, dont you think?

       

      I'm sorry, what does this even mean? The Daedra only became Daedra when Nirn was created, so why would they kill each other for no reason? The nature of the creating Nirn bound each Aedra to their plane[t]s, so no they wouldn't kill them after either. Second, the real power the Aedra wields come from their worshipers. Finally, Akatosh is not literally Alduin's father, so I'm not sure why you continue to say it.  

        Loading editor
    • "Not only is this not mythology, this isn't even true across every irl religion"

      yes this is a mythology, its not real, i cannot summon a Daedra Lord in life, so unless the ES universe made up their own definition of "avatar" and it has yet to be published then it has to follow the only known definition of it, Warcraft does for example, when the Demon's God (Sargeras) was reincarnated as an Avatar He had all the powers on their planet he could muster in his weakened state. now if you mean someone like Pelinal was an incarnationof Shezarr (like jesus was) then yeah he would only have a potion of his powers as a mortal.

      "Mehrunes Dagon didn't have all of his power, and neither did Akatosh.."

      i think they both had their powers in oblivion tho, that was Merhunes Dagon's form thus why Tamriel started getting ripped apart at the end of the game, isnt that waht happens when they merge? and i thought the soliders even said 'Merhunes Dagon is here in the City!"

      "Finally, Akatosh is not literally Alduin's father"

      http://www.ssdress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/akatosh-skyrimskyrim-nexus---mods-and-community-96xglllt.jpg

      i think Paarth calls him Akatosh's first born as well in the game. how is that not a father if he refers to himself as being born of him and Paarth calls him Akatosh's son? and if hes not his father would he just be a simple dragon that has supernatural powers (seeing as hes in the land of the dead at the end) and can devoure souls to get strength then you could jump to the possibility that "him devouring the world" simply means he wants to be Tamriel's dicator

        Loading editor
    • 1. Stating that because another universe uses a concept that all universes must is a fallacy. TES if full of avatars to the divines that are very much killable and not all powerful. Morrowind has them, Oblivion had them, besides Martin, and some would even argue Skyrim has a few. An avatar has never been shown to be as powerful as the god themselves.

      2. Mehrunes Dagon's form is not a four armed Demon and he wasn't trying to rip Tamriel apart. Mehrunes Dagon is his realm, the Deadlands but he entered Nirn, I think you mean, in a symbol of his power to merge his realm with it.   

      3. One word: Shor. Have you never heard of Shor son of Shor? Second, all Dragons come from Akatosh, that is not the point. They are all splinters of his power, Alduin being the exception. The point is Alduin is an aspect of Akatosh, not the Allesian one but the true Anudic Akatosh. Alduin represents the end of Time and renewal of it. He more than a simple Dragon, which isn't even a thing by the way. 

        Loading editor
    • JillKill87 wrote:
      "Not only is this not mythology, this isn't even true across every irl religion"

      yes this is a mythology, its not real, i cannot summon a Daedra Lord in life, so unless the ES universe made up their own definition of "avatar" and it has yet to be published then it has to follow the only known definition of it, Warcraft does for example, when the Demon's God (Sargeras) was reincarnated as an Avatar He had all the powers on their planet he could muster in his weakened state. now if you mean someone like Pelinal was an incarnationof Shezarr (like jesus was) then yeah he would only have a potion of his powers as a mortal.

      "Mehrunes Dagon didn't have all of his power, and neither did Akatosh.."

      i think they both had their powers in oblivion tho, that was Merhunes Dagon's form thus why Tamriel started getting ripped apart at the end of the game, isnt that waht happens when they merge? and i thought the soliders even said 'Merhunes Dagon is here in the City!"

      "Finally, Akatosh is not literally Alduin's father"

      http://www.ssdress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/akatosh-skyrimskyrim-nexus---mods-and-community-96xglllt.jpg

      i think Paarth calls him Akatosh's first born as well in the game. how is that not a father if he refers to himself as being born of him and Paarth calls him Akatosh's son? and if hes not his father would he just be a simple dragon that has supernatural powers (seeing as hes in the land of the dead at the end) and can devoure souls to get strength then you could jump to the possibility that "him devouring the world" simply means he wants to be Tamriel's dicator

      I did some research. You should read a book call "the alduin/akatosh dichotomy". Alduin is more than a son of Akatosh, he is also an aspect of him. I understand it as something like Jesus and the god

        Loading editor
    • Dragonbornliu wrote:
      JillKill87 wrote:
      "Not only is this not mythology, this isn't even true across every irl religion"

      yes this is a mythology, its not real, i cannot summon a Daedra Lord in life, so unless the ES universe made up their own definition of "avatar" and it has yet to be published then it has to follow the only known definition of it, Warcraft does for example, when the Demon's God (Sargeras) was reincarnated as an Avatar He had all the powers on their planet he could muster in his weakened state. now if you mean someone like Pelinal was an incarnationof Shezarr (like jesus was) then yeah he would only have a potion of his powers as a mortal.

      "Mehrunes Dagon didn't have all of his power, and neither did Akatosh.."

      i think they both had their powers in oblivion tho, that was Merhunes Dagon's form thus why Tamriel started getting ripped apart at the end of the game, isnt that waht happens when they merge? and i thought the soliders even said 'Merhunes Dagon is here in the City!"

      "Finally, Akatosh is not literally Alduin's father"

      http://www.ssdress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/akatosh-skyrimskyrim-nexus---mods-and-community-96xglllt.jpg

      i think Paarth calls him Akatosh's first born as well in the game. how is that not a father if he refers to himself as being born of him and Paarth calls him Akatosh's son? and if hes not his father would he just be a simple dragon that has supernatural powers (seeing as hes in the land of the dead at the end) and can devoure souls to get strength then you could jump to the possibility that "him devouring the world" simply means he wants to be Tamriel's dicator

      I did some research. You should read a book call "the alduin/akatosh dichotomy". Alduin is more than a son of Akatosh, he is also an aspect of him. I understand it as something like Jesus and the god

      A single book doesn't prove everything. Espescially not in TES. 

        Loading editor
    • Dragonbornliu wrote:
      JillKill87 wrote:
      "Not only is this not mythology, this isn't even true across every irl religion"

      yes this is a mythology, its not real, i cannot summon a Daedra Lord in life, so unless the ES universe made up their own definition of "avatar" and it has yet to be published then it has to follow the only known definition of it, Warcraft does for example, when the Demon's God (Sargeras) was reincarnated as an Avatar He had all the powers on their planet he could muster in his weakened state. now if you mean someone like Pelinal was an incarnationof Shezarr (like jesus was) then yeah he would only have a potion of his powers as a mortal.

      "Mehrunes Dagon didn't have all of his power, and neither did Akatosh.."

      i think they both had their powers in oblivion tho, that was Merhunes Dagon's form thus why Tamriel started getting ripped apart at the end of the game, isnt that waht happens when they merge? and i thought the soliders even said 'Merhunes Dagon is here in the City!"

      "Finally, Akatosh is not literally Alduin's father"

      http://www.ssdress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/akatosh-skyrimskyrim-nexus---mods-and-community-96xglllt.jpg

      i think Paarth calls him Akatosh's first born as well in the game. how is that not a father if he refers to himself as being born of him and Paarth calls him Akatosh's son? and if hes not his father would he just be a simple dragon that has supernatural powers (seeing as hes in the land of the dead at the end) and can devoure souls to get strength then you could jump to the possibility that "him devouring the world" simply means he wants to be Tamriel's dicator

      I did some research. You should read a book call "the alduin/akatosh dichotomy". Alduin is more than a son of Akatosh, he is also an aspect of him. I understand it as something like Jesus and the god

      if he was a part of Akatosh then he would not be evil and want to destroy and consume, seeing as Akatosh is a good deity tho...and if he was an opposite of Akatosh (an Aedra) then wouldnt that make him a Daedra?

        Loading editor
    • What? Alduin was created with the single purpose of consuming and restarting the world. The only reason Akatosh created the line of Dragonborn was because Alduin didn't want to destroy the world. He wanted to rule it. 

        Loading editor
    • Br3admax wrote:
      What? Alduin was created with the single purpose of consuming and restarting the world. The only reason Akatosh created the line of Dragonborn was because Alduin didn't want to destroy the world. He wanted to rule it. 

      oh ok, that makes sense then, thx

        Loading editor
    • If Alduin is really that poweful, the fact that the LDB defeat him(even in his lesser form), can be consider the greatest feat a player character has ever done. Arguably on par with the COC defeating Jyggalag.

        Loading editor
    • I think the power status of the Dragonborn may be rather difficult to gauge at the moment. For one, game mechanics would have to be seperated from any actual lore surrounding him. Tongues can wield an incredible amount of power, as evidenced by individuals such as Wulfharth, but there is little way to be sure how far the Dragonborn has actually progressed. 

        Loading editor
    • King in the North wrote:
      I think the power status of the Dragonborn may be rather difficult to gauge at the moment. For one, game mechanics would have to be seperated from any actual lore surrounding him. Tongues can wield an incredible amount of power, as evidenced by individuals such as Wulfharth, but there is little way to be sure how far the Dragonborn has actually progressed. 

      The Dragonborn's Thu'um is said to be on par with Alduin's. Either way, they're definitely more powerful than the average Tongue's or Dragon's, considering that they actually absorb more power canonically many times. 

        Loading editor
    • This is a very difficult question to answer, because lorewise, you cannot predict the future. Lets say:

      The dragonborn gives up and retires. He is no more powerful than a nearly invincible warrior with whatever powers he has.

      The dragonborn achieves CHIM like Tiber. He is Vivec powerful. Enough said.

      The dragonborn is crippled in an accident. He becomes less powerful.

      But going by lore again, the potential power that the dragonborn can wield is enormous. By using the voice alone, one can already cause massive effects like shouting down entire city walls. Storm call is only the tip of the iceberg. Plus, the cooldowns are in game limits, not lore accurate.

      No point talking about the other crap like mastering every aspect of magic and finding a spell creation altar, or achieveing CHIM and fooling around with the world.

      A theory by someone even posits an Ematiomorph with Hermaeus Mora and Miraak, or one with Tsun? and Shor. OP much? Remember Talos was the emantiomorph of the underking (Wultharth and Zurin) and Tiber. The underking could wreck Numidium. Now imagine replacing the underking with a DP or a God.

        Loading editor
    • Br3admax wrote:
      King in the North wrote:
      I think the power status of the Dragonborn may be rather difficult to gauge at the moment. For one, game mechanics would have to be seperated from any actual lore surrounding him. Tongues can wield an incredible amount of power, as evidenced by individuals such as Wulfharth, but there is little way to be sure how far the Dragonborn has actually progressed. 
      The Dragonborn's Thu'um is said to be on par with Alduin's. Either way, they're definitely more powerful than the average Tongue's or Dragon's, considering that they actually absorb more power canonically many times. 

      Indeed. It is certain that the Dragonborn is powerful, but I just think the matter is too ambigous to settle into a precise ranking. I suppose I would have to say I agree with Datadragon Odahviing, that there are other variables which could potentially make the answer inconclusive. 

        Loading editor
    • 1) Talos 2) Akatosh 3) Vivec 4) Clavicus vile 5) Mehrundes dagon 6) Molag bal 7) Vaermina 8) other Daedra accept for Peryite 9) Magnus 10) Mara 11) Arkey 12) Julanos 13) Stendarr 14) other Aedra 15) Trinimac 16) Peryite 17) Penniel 18) Amelaxia and Sotha Sil 19) last Dragonborn 20) Alduin

      Note that Anu and Padomey are not conscious beings and the godhead does not exist inside of the universe.

        Loading editor
    • 1) Nerevarine. He's in Morrowind and you know what that means...

        Loading editor
    • Pelinal Whitestrake
      Pelinal Whitestrake removed this reply because:
      Off-topic
      21:10, January 17, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • The Neruverene is knowhere CLOSE to as powerfull as Akatosh and Talos are. The only reason he/she beat Vivec was becaue he didn't use CHIM.

        Loading editor
    • Talos is just a human being with the Voice. Nothing special. Sure he conquered Tamriel but did he do it alone? No he used a gigantic robot stolen from the Dwemer and his armies. Divines themselves aren't powerful. They're out of juice, think about what do the divines do compared to the Daedric Princes.. Akatosh is one of the only exceptions. 

        Loading editor
    • Trueflame is a sword that can kill gods, that's it's specific design and we've seen it in action - so, Nerervarine is clearly a powerful bugger.  However, with the armor loop trips etc you can do in Skyrim, the Dragonborn has to be considered more powerful. Nerevar could stalemate him with flying but you can make yourself utterly invincible in Skyrim, and the weapons you can make are just unreal. 

      Dragonborn can lead armies of Dragons with Bend Will too. They both defeated God level beings in personal combat.

      Dragonborn and Neverar: at their best, in their prime, can take on anyone, anytime. 

        Loading editor
    • How is Talos not powerful? Talos is awesome.

      1) Tamriel is roughly the size of Europe. Talos conquered all of it within a year. Has anyone even come close to conquering all of Europe? NO! Hitler couldn't. Napoleon couldn't. Charlemagne couldn't. And none of them had magic or living gods to fight against in the process.

      2) he achieved CHIM. Only two beings in the entire history of the universe have successfully achieved CHIM, Talos and Vivec. He made an entire jungle disappear into thin air.

      3) In addition to achieving CHIM, he was granted Devine status by the Aedra. But in the process he became more powerful than the Aedra because he was not bound to the mortal plain, like a Daedra accept good.

      4) he is also a Dragonborn and (possibly) a reincarnation of Lorkhan, an already powerful being.

      Second would be Akatosh because he controls time.

        Loading editor
    • 1) Talos used Numidium built by the Dwemer, so no its not really because of him. Oh and have you ever read the heresy version?

      2)  That is in dispute and may or may not be true.

      3) He may have not granted divine status. It is quite common and not unheard of to make a normal living being a god, in this case Talos.

      4) Legend says he got his throat cut and lost the voice before he became Emperor.

        Loading editor
    • Talos was not "granted" Divinity by the Aedra, he took it. He mantled Lorkhan and achieved CHIM, thus, as Vivec calls it, "reaching Heaven by violence". And for what it's worth, Michael Kirkbride did say that Talos was the most powerful being in the universe.

        Loading editor
    • Micheal Kirkbride while respected is not the god-creator of ES lore. Again CHIM may not have happened and it is in dispute. By the way Tamriel is roughly the size of the UK, and Hitler, Napolean and Charlemagne conquered more than that. 

        Loading editor
    • What is the significance of having the soul of a Dragon? Does it mean that the dragonborn can be ressurected after death, just as Alduin ressurected other Dragons?

        Loading editor
    • No, it means that they have a natural affinity with the Thu'um, like a dragon. And it means that they can absorb the souls of other dragons. It doesn't mean that he can be resurrected or anything like that.

      PS.: The reason that Alduin was able to resurrect the dead dragons is because unlike mortals dragon souls aren't separated from the body when they die. The soul remains connected to the body and thus can be brought back by someone that knows how to. The only way to permanently kill a dragon is to separate the soul from the body, which can only be done by a Dragonborn that absorbs the soul.

        Loading editor
    • Kirkbride essentially created the foundations for TES lore; without his work, it would be another genericised fantasy setting. That said, his works are so often referenced in-game that to ignore them would be foolish. Better to take his out of game works as canon until such point as Bethesda chooses to override it with their own.

        Loading editor
    • This thread isn't about MK or his writings. Please stay on topic.

        Loading editor
    • Harold Burned-Mane wrote:
      This thread isn't about MK or his writings. Please stay on topic.

      Agreed. The Nerevarine has the possibility of becoming the strongest because of the purposely exploitable environment enabling him to become a walking god. Talos is a divine and divines lack real power when it comes to affecting Mundus. Has anyone here have evidence that Talos affected Mundus in a massive way (and no artefacts!)? Akatosh is the only exception.

        Loading editor
    • 124.148.102.18 wrote:
      Harold Burned-Mane wrote:
      This thread isn't about MK or his writings. Please stay on topic.
      Agreed. The Nerevarine has the possibility of becoming the strongest because of the purposely exploitable environment enabling him to become a walking god. Talos is a divine and divines lack real power when it comes to affecting Mundus. Has anyone here have evidence that Talos affected Mundus in a massive way (and no artefacts!)? Akatosh is the only exception.

      "But you were once man! Aye! And as man, you said, "Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.""

        Loading editor
    • Pelinal Whitestrake wrote:
      124.148.102.18 wrote:
      Harold Burned-Mane wrote:
      This thread isn't about MK or his writings. Please stay on topic.
      Agreed. The Nerevarine has the possibility of becoming the strongest because of the purposely exploitable environment enabling him to become a walking god. Talos is a divine and divines lack real power when it comes to affecting Mundus. Has anyone here have evidence that Talos affected Mundus in a massive way (and no artefacts!)? Akatosh is the only exception.
      "But you were once man! Aye! And as man, you said, "Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.""

      I'm a little confused... does Talos telling his soldiers a speech now count as divine? Oh god we need more purgings. Oh I see 'But you were once a man' is refering to the fact he may be divine. But what does this have anything with him affecting Mundus, I do not acknowledge Wulf because I suspect he is an illusion from Boethia... The real reason is because he actually could be a secretive Veteran not at all a premonition of Talos and his affect is small. On my first playthrough I never saw him so he isn't like Akatosh who sure screamed out to worship him more during the Oblivion Crisis.

        Loading editor
    • 124.148.102.18 wrote:
      I'm a little confused... does Talos telling his soldiers a speech now count as divine? Oh god we need more purgings. Oh I see 'But you were once a man' is refering to the fact he may be divine. But what does this have anything with him affecting Mundus, I do not acknowledge Wulf because I suspect he is an illusion from Boethia... The real reason is because he actually could be a secretive Veteran not at all a premonition of Talos and his affect is small. On my first playthrough I never saw him so he isn't like Akatosh who sure screamed out to worship him more during the Oblivion Crisis.

      Pelinal's point is that Heimskr's quote is a reference to From The Many-Headed Talos, which depicts Talos use of CHIM.

        Loading editor
    • Talos is a divine and have achieved chim which it is undisputable, he is definitely one of the most powerful being in Elder scroll. !!!!!!But Talos=/=Tiber Septim!!!!!!.Tiber Septim is just a really good general and have not display any semi-divine power. Yes, he did conquer Tameriel but its by army, strategy and help from others. 

      Back to the topic, based on clavicus vile comment and what the last dragonborn have achieve, I would say he is probably one of the strongest non-divine being. In fact, I would only rank the tribunal and Pelinal Whitestrake infront of him.

        Loading editor
    • Tiber Septim wasn't a general per se, they were generals. Hjalti, Wulfharth, and Zurin didn't become the singular entity Talos until they ascended to godhood. And of course, it didn't hurt that Hjalti Early-Beard had the Thu'um, one of the most powerful battlemages of the era, and a pissed-off ash storm flying above his head.

      As for the Last Dragonborn, consider the fact that soul stacking is one of the Walking Ways to divinity, and that he/she has the opportunity to eat literally hundreds or thousands of dragons, each of whom could have eaten any number of other dragons themselves. What you get is an incredibly massive shard of the Time Dragon, certainly the largest that is physically on Nirn. I would argue that the Last Dragonborn, if anything, would achieve apotheosis by virtue of this fact: perhaps making Ysmir less of a ceremonial title and an actual Dragon (god) of the North.

        Loading editor
    • Tiber Septim achieved CHIM, so he did display semi-divine power.

        Loading editor
    • 183.90.123.19 wrote:
      Talos is a divine and have achieved chim which it is undisputable, he is definitely one of the most powerful being in Elder scroll. !!!!!!But Talos=/=Tiber Septim!!!!!!.Tiber Septim is just a really good general and have not display any semi-divine power. Yes, he did conquer Tameriel but its by army, strategy and help from others. 

      Back to the topic, based on clavicus vile comment and what the last dragonborn have achieve, I would say he is probably one of the strongest non-divine being. In fact, I would only rank the tribunal and Pelinal Whitestrake infront of him.

      If Talos isn't Tiber Septim then how did Talos come about?

        Loading editor
    • "Tiber Septim wasn't a general per se, they were generals. Hjalti, Wulfharth, and Zurin didn't become the singular entity Talos until they ascended to godhood. And of course, it didn't hurt that Hjalti Early-Beard had the Thu'um, one of the most powerful battlemages of the era, and a pissed-off ash storm flying above his head."

      Tiber Septim is not Talos the God, as Talos the God only existed after Hjalti Early-Beard, Ysmir Wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus died and achieved apotheosis.

        Loading editor
    • This thread isn't about Tiber Septim or Talos...please stay on topic.

        Loading editor
    • In terms of power, the last dragonborn is the most powerful protagonist from day 1. All the player characters, once maxed out gain godlike powers and possibly the power to overcome them, case in point, Nerevarine defeats dagoth and almalexia, and CoC defeats Ulmaril and then ascends to the station of a daedric prince. But the Last Dragonborn, we're lead to believe from ingame sources is special, he could be manteling or is an aspect of the oversoul of Talos since there's a ghost in Old Hroldan inn that makes no distinction between you and Hjalti Early beard, and we know from experience from playing the game that Ghosts don't tend to mistake people for who they are not, case in point with Kodlak in his afterlife. If TLD is a Shezzarine and at the same time having a dragonsoul, he's part of the same duality that drove pelinal insane, but I don't think he is a shezzarine myself. I think he is an aspect of Talos or manteling the oversoul of talos.

      The points of TLD walking like Talos are as follows

      He tames a red dragon, like we see in TES: redguard that tiber septim had one.

      He is asked to betray his mentor in the voice and good friend Paarthurnax, a close comparison to how Tiber Septim betrayed Ysmir.

      He ascends to Sovngarde and we find the throne of shor empty, One that Talos should by all rights be perched on since he took Lorkhans place. 

      He kills the current ruler of tamriel, and thus also skyrim's ruler, as the Arcturian Heresy says that Tiber did pretty much the same. 

      He is named Ysmir by the greybeards

      he even meets another Dragonborn, from whom we absorb both the knowledge and soul from.

        Loading editor
    • On topic, the LDB defeats a god. I'd say that's rather powerful. However, it's hard to measure power in TES.

      The vast majority of well know and respected lorebeards, and those who spend the most time with it, would argue that the Nerevarine is the most powerful of the PCs. He defeats multiple gods. He can defeat Vivec. He defeats Dagoth Ur, the Sharmat, the embodiment of the anti-dream, potentialy literally older than the universe and an extension of the Dreamsleeve being who exists outside the universe (if you didn't get it, the Sharmat is a really big deal). He is immortal due to corprus but suffers no ill effects. He is the incarnate of the Hortator. 

      With that said, the LDB defeats a god and also potentially defeats Sharmat as well.

        Loading editor
    • I don't know how powerfully he is but he is pictured as a god in the ancient nordic pantheon, the hawk god

        Loading editor
    • Aqwerty wrote: I don't know how powerfully he is but he is pictured as a god in the ancient nordic pantheon, the hawk god

      That's Kyne. However, he is seen as a Twightlight god that ushers in the next world.

        Loading editor
    • Sothas wrote:
      On topic, the LDB defeats a god. I'd say that's rather powerful. However, it's hard to measure power in TES.

      The vast majority of well know and respected lorebeards, and those who spend the most time with it, would argue that the Nerevarine is the most powerful of the PCs. He defeats multiple gods. He can defeat Vivec. He defeats Dagoth Ur, the Sharmat, the embodiment of the anti-dream, potentialy literally older than the universe and an extension of the Dreamsleeve being who exists outside the universe (if you didn't get it, the Sharmat is a really big deal). He is immortal due to corprus but suffers no ill effects. He is the incarnate of the Hortator. 

      With that said, the LDB defeats a god and also potentially defeats Sharmat as well.

      He isn't immortal, but his corpus negates diseases and aging.

        Loading editor
    • 124.148.102.18 wrote:
      Harold Burned-Mane wrote:
      This thread isn't about MK or his writings. Please stay on topic.
      Agreed. The Nerevarine has the possibility of becoming the strongest because of the purposely exploitable environment enabling him to become a walking god. Talos is a divine and divines lack real power when it comes to affecting Mundus. Has anyone here have evidence that Talos affected Mundus in a massive way (and no artefacts!)? Akatosh is the only exception.

      He holds the Aurbis, as Lorkhan being the Space God and mantled him.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.