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  • I started wondering recently, after I read the bood The Falmer: A Study, if we are underestimating the Falmer. Think about it, if the book is right, that the Falmer are getting smarter, then they could truly form an alliance and take over. We don't know how many there even are down there. They are(at higher levels)the strongest enemies in-game, so they could decide to take revenge, not knowing that those above aren't the Dwemer due to their blindness. The Falmer could take Skyrim, at least, probably Morrowind too, due to its recent downfall. We don't know if they exist in High Rock, just unmentioned ingame. For all we know, there could be Dwemer ruins infested with Falmer outside of Vvardenfall, that were never mentioned. Let me know what you think in the comments below.

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    • We're certainly fucked if there is a lot of them. They've been breeding for some time and... Well, some of them use powerful magic, doesn't the use of magic require intelligence?

      The falmer have weaker weapons and armour, though. But the acute senses, the amount of them, the chaurus... By the way, do they really think the Dwemer are outside, on the surface? Or is it an assumption?

      I guess we'll have a real falmer invasion and it will be fought off but at high costs. It will take centuries before they might recover to their 'previous' state.

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    • Thehornydovahkiin wrote:
      We're certainly fucked if there is a lot of them. They've been breeding for some time and... Well, some of them use powerful magic, doesn't the use of magic require intelligence?

      The falmer have weaker weapons and armour, though. But the acute senses, the amount of them, the chaurus... By the way, do they really think the Dwemer are outside, on the surface? Or is it an assumption?

      I guess we'll have a real falmer invasion and it will be fought off but at high costs. It will take centuries before they might recover to their 'previous' state.

      The thing about the Dwemer on the surface is just a theory of mine, and the weaker weapons and armour thing, well it's really not many people besides the player who have acces to armour above Dwarven/Elven(and Dwarven is a stretch)tier, besides mercenaries, and of course there are the Orcs with their Orcish armour, but there aren't a lot of Orcs outside of Orsinium.

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    • I have to agree. Plus the peasants, they're all going to die. But lore-wisely, do you think the Empire could put a good army against the Falmer? In my opinion perhaps it could but still, a lot of bloodshed would happen. Oops, what if the Dovahkiin sided with the Stormcloaks...

      It just depends how much magic the Falmer have, I think that would be their best weapon after all. I'm not that sure they are familiar with the enemies on the surface, they mostly dwelled underground, fighting whoever came there.

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    • If only someone had travelled through all the dwarven ruins and killed all the falmer... oh wait the dragonborn! 

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    • 108.233.164.29 wrote:
      If only someone had travelled through all the dwarven ruins and killed all the falmer... oh wait the dragonborn! 

      We are talking about lore-wise. There are assumed to be more than the ones then you kill.

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    • I wonder if the Falmer actually regaining their intelligence and evolving to their previous elven state.       

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    • I think it's not pure biological evolving. Maybe there's some magic or hidden super technology?  We don't know what the Dwemer gave to the Falmer, what they had to eat (it was a mushroom but we don;t know what it exactly did)... There is no such thing as 'backwards evolution'. Perhaps the Falmer will just evolve into another race.

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    • The Falmer will kill us all! They might be able to with the relative weakness of the Empire and overun Skyrim. The Holds are too independant looking to themselves most of the time. They wouldn't ally because of the civil war. If the Falmer invaded they could conquer Skyrim. Skyim would be hard-pressed to fight off Chaurus, Falmer and their slaves (remember those). If they are beaten back at high cost, Skyrim will be ripe for other invasion. Who knows the Thalmor might invade, or the Argonians or even the Dunmer because their old homeland is destroyed they might gather all their meager strength and invade Skyrim. Their armies would be made of refugees and militia.

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    • eh just send the rieklings after them and we'll be fine

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    • The Falmer will hunt all the Nords down slaughtering them like there's no tommorow, as the Nords did in the late Merethic Era to early First Era when they invaded Mereth(Skyrim) & hunted the Snow Elves down to extinction, now it's payback time.. "We know now to survive we must be born anew. Outside, we will appear as though we belong here. Inside, we will carry our truth and our scars."  Diary of Faire Agarwen ~

      Edit: Image removed, uploading images solely for the forum is not allowed. Please use an external image host and link from there. Also please read the Forum policy for more information, thanks.

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    • Losernil wrote:
      The Falmer will hunt all the Nords down slaughtering them like there's no tommorow, as the Nords did in the late Merethic Era to early First Era when they invaded Mereth(Skyrim) & hunted the Snow Elves down to extinction, now it's payback time.. "We know now to survive we must be born anew. Outside, we will appear as though we belong here. Inside, we will carry our truth and our scars."  Diary of Faire Agarwen ~

      Edit: Image removed, uploading images solely for the forum is not allowed. Please use an external image host and link from there. Also please read the Forum policy for more information, thanks.

      What was the image, can you post a link?

      @99.14.18.82.45 I really don't think that the Rieklings can take on an entire race, especially if Falmer:A Study is right about them becoming more organized.

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    • Thanks, that is pretty funny.

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    • Lets look at some evolution from real life to get insight on this matter:

      Some thime ago, scientists developed the concept that humanity was regressing, devolving; giving us the term "devo". This is exactly what has been happening to the Falmer. Over thousands of years with exposure to blinding poison, dwarven oil and other hazards, the Falmer didn't just decide to be the way they are, they degenerated. 

      So, theoretically, if something has gone through evolution in reverse, it could possibly go back forward. But, due to how even their very souls* have been warped over the millennia, it could be unlikely. So, what i'm trying to say is, they Falmer might not get smarter, they could only degenerate more, possibly to the point where you couldn't distinguish them from the Chaurus.

      • Despite that the Falmer are, or at least were, elves, few, if any of them, have grand/black souls in-game. This seems to suggest that they've regressed even on a spiritual level, a point that likely would be unchangable (have you ever heard of something with a Lesser soul bumping up to a Black soul? And I'm not talking about different types of the same creature!)
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    • Thehornydovahkiin wrote:
      I think it's not pure biological evolving. Maybe there's some magic or hidden super technology?  We don't know what the Dwemer gave to the Falmer, what they had to eat (it was a mushroom but we don;t know what it exactly did)... There is no such thing as 'backwards evolution'. Perhaps the Falmer will just evolve into another race.

      By the way this is partially false: many scientists are starting to believe in reverse evolution. Have you ever heard of Flowers for Algernon?

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    • But also true :)

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    • But we can't argue that they have seriously regressed, how can something go down two whole soul levels!?

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    • It must be for gameplay purposes that they now have white souls, else it would be extremely easy to fill black soul gems from their souls, considering their vast numbers.

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    • Raven biter 114 wrote:
      Thanks, that is pretty funny.

      It's also plain wrong. The Stormcloaks are seceding: that means they're trying to break away. The Empire is not invading anyone. The Empire didn't even fight against the Ancient Falmer as well.

      This is completely ridiculous. How could the Falmer- without a language or writing system, mind you- organize enough to field an army capable of defeating the Imperial Legion? Or even the local militia? This reminds me of that thread about the skeevers taking over Whiterun. The Falmer do not have hidden super technology. That is complete speculation, and not even plausible. And don't try to justify claims made 'lore-wisely' with arguments founded in game logic. You can not use the fact that people don't wear quality armor in game to say that nobdy ever uses those pieces. 

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    • "Lore-wisely" is all we've officially got & everything else is just fan-made speculation. Here's a "lore-wisely" official text; "If the Falmer are indeed planning on reconquering Skyrim - I fear a horror neither man nor gods could possibly stand against."  The Falmer: A Study

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    • the falmers hate is driven by centuries of betrayal by first the nords then the dwemer. after the dissappearance of the dwemer. the falmer as we see in the fourth era have had two millenia to build a culture that doesnt simply distrust other races, but hates them and wants to iradicate all of them regardless of whether they had anything to do with the fall of the snow elves or not. that mentality has been passed down for centuries, and after the loss of their culture and their land future generations lost the things that made them a once great civilization.

      With that said, could they organize and field armies capable of iradication of skyrims inhabitants? i think thats highly improbable. but its not without the fact that if they somehow organized, they would be far from pushovers and skyrim and any other province that may have falmer as a resident species could be in for a very big fight on their hands.

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    • I realize numerous in-game sourced are simply terrified of a Falmer invasion, but they're just overreacting. If the falmer are dumb enough to be killed by dwemer traps they've lived around for centuries, but also smart enough to avoid them and go to the surface, the conclusion is wide open.

      As is often said in cases like this, the answer may never be known for sure.

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    • Goldflame33 wrote:
      Raven biter 114 wrote:
      Thanks, that is pretty funny.
      It's also plain wrong. The Stormcloaks are seceding: that means they're trying to break away. The Empire is not invading anyone. The Empire didn't even fight against the Ancient Falmer as well.

      This is completely ridiculous. How could the Falmer- without a language or writing system, mind you- organize enough to field an army capable of defeating the Imperial Legion? Or even the local militia? This reminds me of that thread about the skeevers taking over Whiterun. The Falmer do not have hidden super technology. That is complete speculation, and not even plausible. And don't try to justify claims made 'lore-wisely' with arguments founded in game logic. You can not use the fact that people don't wear quality armor in game to say that nobdy ever uses those pieces. 

      For the first part, that was just a joke post. If anyone makes this another Stormcloak/Imperial partial flame thread, I am shutting it down right away.

      For the second part, I am only saying that IF the Falmer:A Study is correct, that they are starting to become more intelligent and vengeful, then they may be able to do quite some damage if there are more of them than we perceive. I am not saying that this will happen, but it could, if the book is right. For the armour thing, there are probably not many town blacksmiths out there who know how to make Daedric or Dragonbone/Scale armour. Even Ebony Armour is a stretch. It is probably only the best blacksmiths who know how to make those types, and they would probably charge quite some money for a set of it.

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    • Caractacus IV wrote:
      Thehornydovahkiin wrote:
      I think it's not pure biological evolving. Maybe there's some magic or hidden super technology?  We don't know what the Dwemer gave to the Falmer, what they had to eat (it was a mushroom but we don;t know what it exactly did)... There is no such thing as 'backwards evolution'. Perhaps the Falmer will just evolve into another race.
      By the way this is partially false: many scientists are starting to believe in reverse evolution. Have you ever heard of Flowers for Algernon?


      Yes, there can be a kind of degrading evolution, but never exact reverse evolution. It would have to happen in certain natural circumstances (reversed "timeline" of natural circumstances that led to the way something evolved). It would be hard for the Falmer to be exactly like they were unless there's some technology or magic behind the Dwemer blinding the Falmer.

      And I agree: the Falmer can't really beat the Empire with weapons, for example, but obviously could do so with numbers. And hatred.

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    • Numbers didn't mean anything to the Empire when the Akaviri invaded, they still drove them back. And either way, they couldn't conquer all of Tamriel, I'm pretty sure the Telvanni wizards would turn them to dust.

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    • I agree, they probably couldn't take the whole thing, but remember, Tamriel is split up now. Morrowind, Argonia/Black Marsh, Hammerfell, Orsinium(More or less), and Skyrim(possibly)are all independant. Cyrodiil, High Rock, and Skyrim, possibly, are all part of a Empire that was just defeated in a war. Skyrim is still weak from its own Civil War, and the Dominion Nations are all in the South, so they would barely have to worry, besides Elsweyr, which borders Blackmarsh. Summerset, Valenwood, and (too an extent) Hammerfell are fairly safe.

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    • The Falmer would have an advatage in mountain passes and cities becuase life underground would of made them excellent tunnel fighters and they would not fhave a disadvatage at night becuase they do knot need to see so it would be easier for them to perform sneak attacks. The issue of Flamer evolving they aren't really devolving if they are returning to there former state as snow elves they are more evolving nbecuase their species is getting stronger and the magic might just be remnents of their past from when they were more advanced mer after all and all mer have a special link to magic. If the Falmer do decide to invade the upper world they world be able to do some damage and skyrim would be at the the most risk dwemer runes are more common in skyrim and they would hold a grudge against the ones who caused them to turn to the dwemer in the first place assuming they have a legend dating back to the way they were made and judging by the eyes of the falmer they do.

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    • But if they're becoming Snow Elves again then they might only want to destroy those who tried to exterminate them, the Nords.

      And plus, how would you figure the Falmer's souls returning to normal, a blessing from Auri-El?

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    • But, the thing is that the Falmer are Blind. How would they know the difference from a Nord and a Breton. They could just be trying to attack the Nords, but they would leave Skyrim and kill others, without even knowing it. As I mentioned earlier, they don't know the Dwemer disappeared, leading them to possibly attack, well, pretty much anywhere they can, because the Dwemer were all over, right?

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    • Raven biter 114 wrote:
      But, the thing is that the Falmer are Blind. How would they know the difference from a Nord and a Breton. They could just be trying to attack the Nords, but they would leave Skyrim and kill others, without even knowing it. As I mentioned earlier, they don't know the Dwemer disappeared, leading them to possibly attack, well, pretty much anywhere they can, because the Dwemer were all over, right?

      Have you never heard of the War of the Crag ?

      And how would the Falmer get out of Skyrim anyway? The entire nation is surrounded by mountain ranges and it wouldn't be that difficult to block the passages out. And as far as we know they can't climb mountains or use boats.

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    • I have not heard of that, thanks for that tidbit of information.

      Yes, you are right, I didn't take that into consideration. But there is one other theory that I can bring to evidence now. What about underground tunnels, are there maybe the Falmer have found Dwemer tunnels, possibly leading under mountains. Don't forget about what I said earlier, about the possibiltiy of Falmer in Morrowind and High Rock, too.

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    • I suppose if the Ayleids could have existed outside of Cyrodiil then the Falmer could have existed outside of Skyrim. And you do have a point, the Crypt of Hearts is a Dwemer Ruin with enterances in both Skyrim and High Rock, but it was left out of TESV. However, officially there are only Dwemer Ruins in Skyrim, Morrowind and Hammerfell, and we've never known Snow Elves to ever have been in Hammerfell or Morrowind (with the possible exception of Solstheim).

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    • But, if the Dwemer took them as slaves, then they could have brought them to Morrowind for slavery there. Just because they didn't appear in Morrowind doesn't mean that they weren't on the mainland.

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    • They idea of the Dwemer bringing the Falmer to other cities is a good possibility and before the dwemer disappered they were under siege from the Falmer and they thing about Falmer not being able to tell the difference of races they had to of developed an extra sense or something that can help them know who another of there species is or whos chaurus is whos and the they would still attack human race anyways becuase they are all descended from either the akaviri or the first nord settelers that arrived in skyrim so the Falmer's grudge still extends to them my main question is will the attack other mer or beast races

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    • That idea is good, but remember that not all men decended from the Atmorans or Akaviri, there were already some men, called Nedes, in Tamriel when they arrived.

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    • How would they tell the difference between the races anyway, they're blind. They can tell who is a Falmer, who is a Chaurus, but they have been away from the world so long that they won't know the difference between Men, Elves, or Beastfolk. They might think you are a Dwemer, Atmoran, or just might not care, and just will attack any intruders.

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    • As I said they could of developed a sense to replace sight to tell the difference in race and i can understand a gradge against other mer becuase they could be mistaken for Dwemer becuase all elves have a basic took to them so it can be guessed the Dwemer did as well my main question still is will they attack beastfolk on sight, try and ally with them or try to enslave them as they were enslaved.

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    • But by this time, even if that idea WAS true, then it wouldn't work because they are only really familiar with themselves. They probably think that if it is something unfamiliar, then it means them harm.

      For the beastfolk think, I would think that they would just fight them too, like I said, they aren't familiar with them. The Snow Elves probably weren't familiar with Beastfolk.

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    • I have killed so many Falmer that the idea of them being a threat is about as probable as a mudcrab civil war.

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    • Cheese yarn lettuce420 wrote:
      I have killed so many Falmer that the idea of them being a threat is about as probable as a mudcrab civil war.

      Oh god!!! MUDCRAB CIVIL WAR!!!

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    • Stormcrabs vs. The Crustacean Legion

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    • Let's get back to the Falmer idea, please, I don't want a discussion about crabs, at least not those crabs.

      So, supposing the Falmer do go to the surface and attack, say, Whiterun, what would happen then? Who do you think would win?

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    • I would say no. Whiterun is an open plains area, with a score or so of gaurds who are accustomed to fighting in this environment, while the falmer, on the other hand, are adjusted to fighting in inclined spaces; not to mention they can't see. This being the center of skyrim, if they posed a serius threat, they would be surrounded by every other hold and each hold's corresponding militia. The falmer would not succeed.

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    • I read your question wrong, so I rephrase with "I would assume the Falmer would lose"

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    • My question was phrased correctly, it is supposed to be answered possibly with a simple "Falmer" or "Nords". But I agree, the falmer would be at a disadvantage in an open plains area. But I ask you, then, where would they succeed?

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    • Well, if they were united, organized, and had intelligent direction and tactical implementation of attacks, they could win anywhere and everywhere; However, as they clearly are deficient in all three, I can't imagine them suceeding in any theatre. Based on my knowledge, they're only still in existence because the Dwarves disappeared, providing them with an environment suitable for survival; an environment which is desired by no other civilization in Tamriel. The Falmer could be wiped out at any moment if they were suddenly significant enough as an opposition to another organization, but they're really just not important to anyone.

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    • so to satisfy you in a brief manner- Nowhere

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    • Exactly, they're not a big enough problem for the Nords or the Empire to get involved in. And it's likely that they may never become important evough to even consider.

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    • if anyone remembers gelebors talk about the intelligence of the falmer increasing enough to attack auriels shrine and succeed against a group of knight-paladins and the arch-curate then we can consider them one day attaking any of the holds in skyrim. I also believe that the hold they'd be most successful in is the Reach

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    • Not only would the Falmer fail in their attack, they may be driven to endangerment. Think about it, assuming that the Dragonborn is still in Skyrim then the Falmer would have a serious threat. The Dragonborn has killed countless numbers of Falmer and I see he/she having no problem fending off a small army off them. Also if the Stormcloaks won the civil war and were in defense of Skyrim then they would surely have the upperhand, because when they were fighting the Empire their advantage was that they knew the battlefield much better because they were "sons and daughters of Skyrim". So in short Dragonbron+Stormcloaks+Local Militias and other towns= absolute sucess. As for the Imperials I think that they would still have a chance because of the Dragonborn and that they have military tactics, numbers, and equipment necessary to defend Skyrim from a Falmer invasion. To sum it all up: The Falmers may have a small chance against the Empire but will most likely fail to the Stormcloaks. 

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    • I think they would be smart enough, as shown in The Falmer: A Study, and by Gelebor, than they can take quite a bit of it. Don't forget that this is an entire race we are talking about, so they certainly have the numbers. Oh, and please refrain from mentioning anything comparing the Stormcloaks and the Imperials on this thread. I mentioned earlier that I  would be taking it down if that happened. I know what you said was innocent, but some other users would want to argue about it, and that would cause flame wars.

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    • Sorry, didnt want to start anything. Anyway I also believe they indeed have the numbers, but that doesnt change the fact that whoever is defending Skyrim/Tamriel does too. Not to mention that, yes the Falmer are a large race but Tamriel will unite in some ways right? Unless it is still broken from The Great Battle. If they do unite under one banner like:  Nords, Imperials, and maybe the Dark Elves from Morrowind could come to Skyrim's aid. As for the Blackmarsh if I am correct it was taken by the Thalmor, but maybe they could help the fight too. So using that reason then I think that it wouldn't matter that the Falmer are an entire race, especially when they're fighting several entire races under one banner. But, that means nothing because we don't know how any of the races would react it could just end up as just the Nords or just the Imperials. I still believe that if Skyrim would fall to the Falmer I think that either the Falmer that are left from the battle would move onto another region where they're remaining numbers would possibly be killed, or other regions would be jumping to the chance to defeat the Falmer that were left and take Skyrim for themselves which could spark another civil war but in other words the Falmer could possibly conquer Skyrim but I believe that they would eventually be killed.

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    • 99.254.230.197 wrote:
      if anyone remembers gelebors talk about the intelligence of the falmer increasing enough to attack auriels shrine and succeed against a group of knight-paladins and the arch-curate then we can consider them one day attaking any of the holds in skyrim. I also believe that the hold they'd be most successful in is the Reach

      Then if Gelebor is right then the Falmer will abandon their savage ways and worship Auri-El again.

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    • Yes, this does seem likely that maybe someday they will maybe revert to the snow elves, but that would be strange to them because the snow elves have missed out on at least three eras worth of change throughout Tamriel.

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    • No, because they can't. They have been living in the ruins of Dwemer cities for over 4000 years and have never been able to re evolve into civilized creatures. If anything they have gotten worse. The greatest threat they can pose is to attack the occasional explorer or Dwemer scholar wandering around. If they set foot in the outside world everything would take advantage of they're blindness and attack them. They wouldn't be able to find any food, much less take over a continent.

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    • Wow, that really put things into perspective. I never thought about food and since everything is different on topside since it was 4000 years ago then they wouldnt have a chance. Well, then since I read that then I guess that the military wouldn't even have to get involved they could leave it to the mercenaries and maybe local militias. Besides the Falmer don't seem to be anymore powerful than Oblivion's goblins.

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    • 209.239.101.3 wrote:
      Wow, that really put things into perspective. I never thought about food and since everything is different on topside since it was 4000 years ago then they wouldnt have a chance. Well, then since I read that then I guess that the military wouldn't even have to get involved they could leave it to the mercenaries and maybe local militias. Besides the Falmer don't seem to be anymore powerful than Oblivion's goblins.

      As much as I doubt their rise to power, Oblivion Goblins can't even compare to the Falmer's strength.

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    • Gameplay-wise, yes, they were similar. But Lore-Wise, the Goblins were practically beasts, animals. The Falmer are a(Depending on how you look at it)powerful sentinent race.

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    • Well lore wise the Goblins were also known as powerful sentient beings (herding rats, magic, worship, and ranks) which are very close to the sentient yet more powerful Falmer (herding Chaurus, ranks, and magic. Not sure about worship though) Without a doubt though I believe that the Falmer are stronger since at one time they were a smart Mer race, unlike the Goblins who have always been... you know Goblins. Which does lead me to something since this topic is about Falmer not Goblins and Falmer comparisons, which something I just thought of is that if the Falmer are actually becoming smarter and possibly aware of their surroundings maybe they are smart enough to know that they shouldn't fight whatever dwells on topside. The Goblins spend their lives in sewers, caves, and ruins mostly away from the populace so maybe they were too stupid to attack or smart enough not to and the Falmer may possibly be the same. Maybe some of you are Overestimating the Falmer and maybe they actually are just feral beasts that cannot be reverted and their stupidity and heightened senses make them seem smart.

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    • They already launched attacks on the topside. You find a carriage attacked by them. Also, noone knows the Falmer as well as Arch-Curate Vyrthur does. And he claims the falmer are gaining the intelligence again. They also launched attacks on the temple of Auri-El and the protectors of the temple themselves had problems fighting them off. There is simply some in-game evidence they're pretty smart now.

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    • Rememeber though, just because something can kill doesn't mean it's ready to take on a whole land mass, we are talking about several races vs one race (one race thats unskilled in fighting anybody but dwemer underground).

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    • Considering how Skyrim contains Hardy Nords, Haughty Thalmor, and Hotheaded imperials, the Falmer don't stan't a chance.

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    • I thought the same thing, the populace of Skyrim is just to large for the Falmer to overcome.

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    • We can apply the same concept to any other province that the Falmer even "might" be in. Even if Morrowind has been wrecked by fire and Argonians, the telvanni would still kick their asses. And we shouldn't even think about Hammerfell.

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    • No, definitely not Hammerfell, I was thinking more along the lines of High Rock, MAYBE Morrowind, but they would get owned by the Telvanni. There are Dwemer Ruins in High Rock, The Crypt of Hearts is one, if I'm not mistaken, and if the Falmer were getting smarter, they could form an alliance between the ones in Skyrim, Morrowind, and High Rock.

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    • Don't be so naive everyone, lore-wisely the Falmer living underground aren't supposed to be as scarcely shown as they are in-game, their population is the same or even more than the whole population of Skyrim. Remember, they are breeding secretly from anyone knowing since the 1st Era with no wars between them or the outside world & also take into account the longevity of the Snow Elves (Knight-Paladin Gelebor - Arch-Curate Vyrthur) meaning that even the first Snow Elves to be enslaved and become the Falmer (The Betrayed) could still be alive.

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    • I hope you realize that still a war between the different Falmer tribes could break out. But IF they manage to create peace between the tribes then the Empire and the Stormcloacks aren't able to defeat them. And the Empire has the biggest chance to destroy them all. The Empire is the only goverment in Tamriel which is able to take care of such problem. Most of us only say: 'Yeah Stormcloacks will defeat them because it's their homeland.' Remember that this will also create conflicts within the countries and between the countries. A threat like this could mean civilwars and mighthungry people who wants to benefit from the problem. I will give a list and reasons.

      -Stormcloacks: They are repairing the damage from the civil war (if you see the conditions of the millitary and civilian structures in Skyrim, oh gods it's horrible, how may bandits there are and all the destroyed fortresses) and they are in bad terms with their neighbors. If they are indepent the doesn't need to relay on Thalmor and Imperial support. Also the fact that they residence in Skyrim makes it impossible to defeat the Falmer. If Windhelm is attacked and Ulfric Stormcloack has been killed, who's going to rule Skyrim then? It can resolt in a second civilwar.

      -Hammerfell: It's actually a small but strong province. But we must realize that they aren't best friends with the Thalmor nor the Empire. And they are able to drive them out their lands but not out Skyrim or (if they Falmer is present their too) Morrowind.

      -Morrowind: On the begin the houses can withstand it together but once the houses weakens they will try to ensure more control over Morrowind and will focus on power and might.

      -Black Marsh: They only rule the southern part of Morrowind, so on they won't have much trouble with the Falmer. They will being been destroyedd if the Falmer has taken over Skyrim, Morrowind and Hammerfell.

      -Aldmeri Dominion: They can't do something actually. They are far away from the former Dwemmer cities and won't have much trouble. In a later phase they will lose Elsweyr and Valenwood but the Summerset Isles are easy to defend.

      -The Empire: They are extremely strong in terms of war. Their goverment is actually one of the best that ever existed in Tamriel, they doesn't relly on 1 person to rule their country but the Elder Council can just take it over. But they aren't very loved last time in the provinces. And the Falmer residences in the provinces where the Empire is no longer welcome.

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    • I agree, inner collapse is always something to consider. The Dark Brotherhood seemed fairly "stable", but in their history just one dagger and one person have been known to internally decimate them.

      And also, the Crypt of Hearts is what I thought to be the only known Dwemer Ruin in High Rock.

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    • Thehornydovahkiin wrote:
      We're certainly fucked if there is a lot of them. They've been breeding for some time and... Well, some of them use powerful magic, doesn't the use of magic require intelligence?

      The falmer have weaker weapons and armour, though. But the acute senses, the amount of them, the chaurus... By the way, do they really think the Dwemer are outside, on the surface? Or is it an assumption?

      I guess we'll have a real falmer invasion and it will be fought off but at high costs. It will take centuries before they might recover to their 'previous' state.

      Falmer Heavy Armour set is equal in base armor rating to Ebony, slightly better than Nordic Carved, and weighs less than both for the most part.  But, the Falmer Hardened Armour or pieces of the regular Falmer set (except fot the cuirass piece, very uncommon for the player to find that one, but many Falmer still wear it despite it not being lootable from their corpse) are more commonly found in Falmer corpses, and never a complete set, and more often than not a mixed bunch...

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    • Caractacus IV wrote:
      I agree, inner collapse is always something to consider. The Dark Brotherhood seemed fairly "stable", but in their history just one dagger and one person have been known to internally decimate them.

      And also, the Crypt of Hearts is what I thought to be the only known Dwemer Ruin in High Rock.

      Really? I thought there were more.

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    • Technically the Crypt of Hearts isn't in Skyrim or High Rock, it's located beneath the Dragontail Mountains and has enterances in both. But I've never heard of the Dwemer having any settlements that were actually within High Rock. And also, to further smash holes into any Hammerfell theory, the Falmer are SNOW Elves, Hammerfell is a DESERT, need I say any more?

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    • Yeah, I thought Hammerfell was out from the beginning. And I wonder why Skyrim didn't include the Crypt of Hearts, but just had the part where you get out in High Rock blocked off. 

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    • Caractacus IV wrote:
      Technically the Crypt of Hearts isn't in Skyrim or High Rock, it's located beneath the Dragontail Mountains and has enterances in both. But I've never heard of the Dwemer having any settlements that were actually within High Rock. And also, to further smash holes into any Hammerfell theory, the Falmer are SNOW Elves, Hammerfell is a DESERT, need I say any more?

      Slaves remain slaves. The Dwemer could have transported them to work in Hammerfell. And deep under the ground it's cold so on they could easily survive there.

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    • ViVe wrote:
      Caractacus IV wrote:
      Technically the Crypt of Hearts isn't in Skyrim or High Rock, it's located beneath the Dragontail Mountains and has enterances in both. But I've never heard of the Dwemer having any settlements that were actually within High Rock. And also, to further smash holes into any Hammerfell theory, the Falmer are SNOW Elves, Hammerfell is a DESERT, need I say any more?
      Slaves remain slaves. The Dwemer could have transported them to work in Hammerfell. And deep under the ground it's cold so on they could easily survive there.

      True, but the Dwemer used Steam power, which likely would have made things blisteringly hot, even underground. However, this would only apply to areas where they used Steam.

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    • Caractacus IV wrote:
      ViVe wrote:
      Caractacus IV wrote:
      Technically the Crypt of Hearts isn't in Skyrim or High Rock, it's located beneath the Dragontail Mountains and has enterances in both. But I've never heard of the Dwemer having any settlements that were actually within High Rock. And also, to further smash holes into any Hammerfell theory, the Falmer are SNOW Elves, Hammerfell is a DESERT, need I say any more?
      Slaves remain slaves. The Dwemer could have transported them to work in Hammerfell. And deep under the ground it's cold so on they could easily survive there.
      True, but the Dwemer used Steam power, which likely would have made things blisteringly hot, even underground. However, this would only apply to areas where they used Steam.

      I think that they used Falmer in the mines and not in the cities.

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    • And what did Dwemer lights run on? Anyway, there has never been any CONCLUSIVE evidence that the Snow Elves ever lived outside of Skyrim/Solstheim.

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    • Caractacus IV wrote:
      And what did Dwemer lights run on? Anyway, there has never been any CONCLUSIVE evidence that the Snow Elves ever lived outside of Skyrim/Solstheim.

      Isn't it oil?

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    • I always thought that, atleast for some things, the Dwemer used Soul Gems for power. Most Automations drop them.

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    • But the lights seems like oil.

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    • If they do run on oil what would keep them lit thousands of years after the Dwemer went kaput?

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    • I believe they run on Soul Gems. The Heart of Lorkhan (while looking nothing like one) was in essence a massive Soul Gem.

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    • Snow Elves may not have lived outside of Skyrim or Solsthiem; but after the Degradation some splinter groups left and then migrated to other lands. And I assume there are mountains in Daggerfall they may have fled to the mountains there and started life there

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    • Hooded Thief wrote:
      Snow Elves may not have lived outside of Skyrim or Solsthiem; but after the Degradation some splinter groups left and then migrated to other lands. And I assume there are mountains in Daggerfall they may have fled to the mountains there and started life there

      Yes but you're talking about the Snow Elves as in their original form which as Gelebor said and i believe that too "It's also quite possible that there are some other isolated conclaves of snow elves nestled elsewhere on Nirn."

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    • The Snow elves may not have degraded in Intelligence though... The mushroom Just turned them blind for all we know.

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    • Hooded Thief wrote:
      The Snow elves may not have degraded in Intelligence though... The mushroom Just turned them blind for all we know.

      Maybe not intellegiance but definetely their habits and acts. They have a more bestial mindset which governs their actions, why else do they attack almost everything on sight?

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    • 180.181.142.191 wrote:
      Hooded Thief wrote:
      The Snow elves may not have degraded in Intelligence though... The mushroom Just turned them blind for all we know.
      Maybe not intellegiance but definetely their habits and acts. They have a more bestial mindset which governs their actions, why else do they attack almost everything on sight?

      Betrayal causes bitterness.  Bitterness can cause aggressiveness.  All accentuated by the degradation and degeneration of their species.  Paranoid cave beasts they became.  Surprising they don't shoot arrows at each other, really, how can a blind creature differentiate friend from foe at a distance?  [Plot hole...?!]

      Such a shame to happen to such a beatiful race...  Damn the Dwemer.  Curses to the Nords, but at least they showed the Prince's corpse some respect...

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    • Well to be exact they slaughtered all the people in the first capital of Skyrim so yeah... I dont see them as being so beautiful. On topic about their betrayal, bitterness, and aggressivness. Well yes they were betrayed and betrayed again and they became bitter, feral, aggresive beasts. But as some may know if they are driven by pure rage then the people of Tamriel can surely "out-tactic" them, because if they are driven by aggresive rage then they have no tactics or anything just "Kill everything on the surface!" which I dont think would work good for the Falmer.

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    • Maybe I'm just full of it then... and need to accept the fact that maybe Gelebor and the Forgotten Vale wayshrine ghosts are not necessarily representative of the entire Snow Elf race...

      But still...damn the Dwemer...

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    • To those of you who think that the Falmer may still retain their former intelligence, remember that over thousands of years their very souls have been changed. So I'm sure it's not likely that they have, or will ever have again, the intelligence they once had.

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    • Caractacus IV wrote:
      To those of you who think that the Falmer may still retain their former intelligence, remember that over thousands of years their very souls have been changed. So I'm sure it's not likely that they have, or will ever have again, the intelligence they once had.

      Indeed, and well said.  Very few Falmer even possess a soul size of Greater, even less-so Grand.

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    • What I'm trying to say is, even if what has happened to the Falmer is somewhat reversable, it is a change that, even with regret, cannot be undone.

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    • Im not sure if this thread is still active, but there is no possible way in my mind that they will change back. At first it seemed like there was hope because when they were first "tainted" they were still more intelligent and knew their past because they built a statue of a Snow Elf hero. But then Gelebor tells you of how they attacked and somewhat ironically nearly wiped out what was left of their own race. If they cant even seperate themselves from their intelligent breteren then I dont think they'll ever revert.

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    • Honestly, gameplay means little in terms of lore. The Falmer will never be anything more than a threat to lightly defended villages/caravans for a number of reasons. They may have somewhat stronger senses of smell and hearing, but they are still blind. They may be getting slightly more clever, but they are still primitive and lack any capacity to either organize their fighting forces or make use of tactics or strategy. Accordingly, their weaponry and armour are made of a low quality chitin, and they have no industrial base for the mass production of such equipment. They lack any sort of structure or clearcut hierarchy, and are not a unified faction. They do not have a reliable standard of skill or any system of training for either mages, archers, or warriors. Really, the most important things are a lack of tactical intelligence, organization, or training/skill standard. The only real reason the Falmer present the threat they do to the common man in Skyrim is the same reason bandits, vampires, and other unsavory folk are allowed to stalk the roads with near impunity: most of the holds' militiamen, guards, knights, and sellswords/adventurers are caught up fighting for the Legion or the Stormcloaks. What limited guard regiments are left can only afford to defend large settlements and cities.

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    • ^ Best answer ever.

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    • They could pose a threat, if they where able to hit the right spots.  You see several times that they have dug into a home or otherwise secure area, and killed everybody. Many of the old Dwemer ruins can hold them back, but the Falmer seems to have numbers on their side, and numbers can replace skill sometimes.

      If they where to dig into a city somehow, either by luck or intention, the town would be unable to rally in time to do much. Even if they did regroup, the cost would be high.

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    • Most times you see victims of the Falmer, they're farmers, villagers, and other defenseless/lightly defended folk, or inexperienced adventurers with poor equipment. They are inferior to the average hold guardsman, let alone to the average Legionnaire or Stormcloak, and those times that they are shown to overpower the latter are when those soldiers were heavily outnumbered in the middle of Falmer territory and separated from any source of reinforcement. It is important to remember that the Falmer do not have any organization to them by virtue of a severe lack of intellectual capacity, and thus cannot coordinate large-scale assaults on the surface world. Further, they have no way of knowing where any major towns or cities would be, and many of these cities are built upon stone foundations either way. They overwhelm the small groups of normally ill-equipped explorers as they live in those areas in large numbers, but only occasionally raid, and even then only light caravans or small villages close to the mouths of their caves. It is because their impact on the holds at large is so small that local militia focus on the Civil War rather than clearing them out: the very moment they begin to pose a threat rather than a nuisance is the moment the Jarls decide to send well armed, well armoured, and well trained militiamen, knights, or mercenaries to clear out their dens. And if they begin to pose a threat and their numbers are large enough to warrant it, that is when professional military organizations such as the Legion or Stormcloaks become involved.

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    • 107.178.39.237 wrote:
      Honestly, gameplay means little in terms of lore. The Falmer will never be anything more than a threat to lightly defended villages/caravans for a number of reasons. They may have somewhat stronger senses of smell and hearing, but they are still blind. They may be getting slightly more clever, but they are still primitive and lack any capacity to either organize their fighting forces or make use of tactics or strategy. Accordingly, their weaponry and armour are made of a low quality chitin, and they have no industrial base for the mass production of such equipment. They lack any sort of structure or clearcut hierarchy, and are not a unified faction. They do not have a reliable standard of skill or any system of training for either mages, archers, or warriors. Really, the most important things are a lack of tactical intelligence, organization, or training/skill standard. The only real reason the Falmer present the threat they do to the common man in Skyrim is the same reason bandits, vampires, and other unsavory folk are allowed to stalk the roads with near impunity: most of the holds' militiamen, guards, knights, and sellswords/adventurers are caught up fighting for the Legion or the Stormcloaks. What limited guard regiments are left can only afford to defend large settlements and cities.

      This all doesn't bother if they can outnumber the enemy. You may place 10 soldiers carrying deadric armor and dragonbone weapons and place them against 100 falmer, the falmer will always win just because they are with too many.

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    • Except that there is absolutely no indication that the Falmer outnumber the local populace of Skyrim. In addition, you severely underestimate the importance of skill, training, and tactical/strategic ability: trained well and commanded properly, a dozen men can destroy, or at the very least hold their own against, a force many times their size. This is even more relevant when considering medieval weaponry as opposed to modern, and indeed there are many cases in ancient/medieval warfare where overwhelmingly outnumbered forces achieved victory due to their training and their leadership. Add to this the fact that the average hold guardsman is much better equipped than most Falmer warriors, who for the most part wear little more than rags with a few plates of Chaurus chitin strapped haphazardly on and use poor and crude weapons made of the same material, and it's not difficult to see that they would crumble before an organized military force.

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    • Skill and training are important, but when outnumbered three to one it means even less. Lets say that the Falmer, either by chance or planing, dug into Whiterun. We now have a surprise attack from within the city's gates, when enemy most people do not know anything about, whoa re supported by those ugly spit throwing bugs and magic. As for their armor, it is not the worst armor in the game. In fact, it is better then hold guard armor, Stormcloak armor, and heavy imperial armor. At this point, even if they attacked the main walls, they make up for lack of skill with being better protected then the guards on them. The only thing going for the surface is that I doubt the Falmer like the sun to much.

      Even if they are somehow not a threat now, they will be soon. They are expanding their territory all the time, as proven by the tunnels in their caves and the basement of that lighthouse, They have better armor then any of the defending forces, and they use magic unlike most of Skyrim's inhabitants. They could do a lot of harm should they attack a town or city, the only question is when.

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    • Except that ancient and medieval history is filled with cases where forces that were outnumbered much, much more than three-to-one have come out victorious, and at that fighting against trained armies rather than creatures that have devolved into blind, dumb savages. A dozen reasonably well trained, reasonably well equipped, and reasonably well commanded troops would be able to kill upwards of a hundred Falmer for the reasons I've stated above. Mind, the Falmer were literally all around the Dwemer and inside their strongholds when they revolted, yet there is no indication that the Dwemer were losing: in fact, the only thing that resulted in a Falmer "victory" was their global disappearance due to the events of the Battle of Red Mountain.

      Further, you're going into gameplay rather than lore. If we were to take gameplay seriously, then Cyrodiil and Skyrim would be besieged by bandits that were stronger than the Imperial Legion's best champions and equipped with Daedric weapons and armour. Dunmeri chitin armour is less effective than Bonemold, and Bonemold is roughly on par with steel: however, the Dunmer are skilled craftsmen, and have been refining their arts for centuries and testing them in battle. The Falmer are savages incapable of any higher thinking, and their craftsmanship is appropriately poor. They also don't seem to fully understand the purpose of armour, as they do not guard vital areas and leave large portions of flesh vulnerable.

      It is also important to always remember that the Falmer are not unified: they appear to operate in small tribal units that raid independently of one another. They seem to live in the same areas, but this is due to the fact that this is where they have been for centuries, and importantly lack any leadership or hierarchy. As well, the chances that they would be able to tunnel into a major city are slim, precisely due to the fact that large settlements tend to be built on stone and hard rock foundations for stability.

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    • I've already said that what has happened to the Falmer is "a change that, even with regret, cannot be undone." But think about it: "Now frontiers shift like desert sands, while nations wash their bloodied hands; Of loyalty, of history, in shades of grey." (please do not look up where I got this quote!) But it does make sense in some context: the world is constantly changing, and the Falmer may realize it somewhere in their damaged brains. Frontiers are shifting, nations are bloodying themselves, and the very concepts of loyalty and history become broken and twisted. The Falmer have been changing, but the rest of the world is too, and when one group gets stronger, history shows that usually another group gets weaker.

      But then again, which group is which?

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    • Surely the tale of the Falmer is one worthy of no small amount of sympathy, but what they've devolved into are little more than feral, savage, dumb, blind animals with a very, very crude understanding of basic weapon and armour crafting. They lacked the understanding to recognize those members of their race that did not lose their intellectual capacities, and instead ironically killed off what represented the best hope for their species. They cannot be a power on the stage of nations as they quite literally lack the basic intelligence to comprehend what a nation is, let alone form one again. They have been breeding out of the sight of the civilized races of Tamriel, yes, but numbers alone do not translate to power when they lack organization, training, quality of arms or armour, tactics, strategy, and so many other vital necessities to might.

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    • 24.185.108.132 wrote:
      Surely the tale of the Falmer is one worthy of no small amount of sympathy, but what they've devolved into are little more than feral, savage, dumb, blind animals with a very, very crude understanding of basic weapon and armour crafting. They lacked the understanding to recognize those members of their race that did not lose their intellectual capacities, and instead ironically killed off what represented the best hope for their species. They cannot be a power on the stage of nations as they quite literally lack the basic intelligence to comprehend what a nation is, let alone form one again. They have been breeding out of the sight of the civilized races of Tamriel, yes, but numbers alone do not translate to power when they lack organization, training, quality of arms or armour, tactics, strategy, and so many other vital necessities to might.


      This shows your lack of knowledge, the Falmer lived peacefully with the Snow Elves of the Chantry of Auriel till the Arch-Curate Vyrthur became a vampire turned by one of his acolytes and he in turn turned some of the Falmer into VAMPIRES and COMMANDED them to attack the Chantry and slaughter everyone there (so he can have his revenge on Auriel for not protecting him against vampirism), so please don't go spreading false information until you're sure about something.

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    • False: please actually check your sources before you accuse me of being ill informed. Gelebor explains to you that the vampiric feral Falmer descended upon the sane Falmer without warning and slaughtered them, breaking into the Inner Sanctum and infecting Vyrthur with Vampirism. You can go over the dialogue at UESP or in game if you still believe mento be a liar.

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    • 107.178.43.29 wrote:
      False: please actually check your sources before you accuse me of being ill informed. Gelebor explains to you that the vampiric feral Falmer descended upon the sane Falmer without warning and slaughtered them, breaking into the Inner Sanctum and infecting Vyrthur with Vampirism. You can go over the dialogue at UESP or in game if you still believe mento be a liar.

      REALLY!? What part of - Arch-Curate Vyrthur: "The moment I was infected by one of my own Initiates, Auri-El turned his back on me. I swore I'd have my revenge, no matter what the cost." - don't you understand?? OH! I FORGOT! you didn't even bother checking on Arch-Curate Vyrthur and his own damn dialogue, instead your sources seem to be from a Froot Loops box or something. It's ok don't get butthurt 107.178.blabla, cause NOBODY knows the Falmer better than me, always remember this..

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    • Gelebor:

      "The kinship between us is gone. I don't understand what he's become, but he's no longer the brother I once knew. It was the Betrayed... they did something to him, I just don't know why Auri-El would allow this to happen."

      "They swept into the Chantry without warning and began killing everyone without pause." In response to the attack he tells you they fought back but were no match: "The Chantry was a place of peaceful worship. I led a small group of paladins, but we were no match for the Betrayed's sheer numbers. They slaughtered everyone and stormed the Inner Sanctum where I believe they corrupted Vyrthur."

      The feral vampiric Falmer attacked the Chantry and infected one of Vyrthur's initiates, who in turn infected Vyrthur. Vyrthur does not deny this, he simply explains that the "corruption" of the Betrayed was Vampirism. He is angry at Auriel because he was not protected from this disease. Again, check your sources before you try and act high and mighty. How exactly can you claim hat "nobody knows the Falmer better" than you when you can't even be bothered to check dialogue?

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    • Quit arguing on sources, the point is that the Falmer are messed up beyond repair and, despite what anyone says, they are far from peaceful.

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    • That was precisely my point before I was accused of "spreading false information".

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    • The Falmer have lots of creatures that will ally with them such as Frostbite Spiders, Skeevers, and charus, but if you think about are they smart enough to come up with it? The Falmer are also very busy from The dwemer machines and the dragonborn. (if you choose to go in there) If they chose to attack they would have it finish off The dwemer machines and everything else living in Skyrim such as The greybeards, The imperial s and the stromcloaks, and I believe the dragons wanted to enslave humanity as well. I think the Falmer might be able to but most of them would be slaughtered

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    • The thing most perople are failing to realize is that all attacks the Falmer have performed in the game were completely random. The Falmer simply do not have the intelligence to carry out a planned attack; remember that when they attacked the Inner sanctum, they were guided by Vyrthyr.

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    • Hmm...Caratacus has a point. It probably wouldn't happen unless they had another leader like Vyrthyr. There PROBABLY aren't anymore Snow Elves out there to lead them, and if there were, they probably wouldn't want to attack the normal Chantries like he did anyway.

      New Question:Would they have a chance if Vyrthyr was still leading them?

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    • Raven biter 114 wrote:
      Hmm...Caratacus has a point. It probably wouldn't happen unless they had another leader like Vyrthyr. There PROBABLY aren't anymore Snow Elves out there to lead them, and if there were, they probably wouldn't want to attack the normal Chantries like he did anyway.

      New Question:Would they have a chance if Vyrthyr was still leading them?

      If they where being lead by somebody that had basic understanding of tactics they would have a chance. Those little Riklings took over a lodge of hunters because they had a leader who was smart enough to lead them, and the Nords inside had gone soft. If a Falmer was born smart enough, or if somebody/something took leadership, they would beable to strike larger targets. The only thing really holding them back is leadership. They have the numbers to make up for training, and even then they are not worthless in combat. Enough of them could talk a larger town or hold if they hit in the right place and time.

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    • One leader who has some grasp of basic strategy and a large army does not a good substitute for a trained and well equipped army make. Better than an unorganized rabble yes, but not even comparable to a drilled and disciplined military a la the Imperial Legion. Those ex-Skaal at Thirsk were very few in number, and hardly constituted an organized fighting force. My points have outlined rather extensively above: ancient/medieval armies with shrewd tactics, discipline, and leadership were able to defeat enemy armies many times their size, yet the difference in training quality or equipment quality between these armies was often negligible: had they been fighting blind, dumb savages rather than trained and well equipped soldiers, the numerical disparity in casualties would be even greater.

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    • Honestly for what the reason Falmer must out from their niche, even they savage but they not dumb.  

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    • Revenge possibly, Imperialism, there are ways for Bethesda explain it

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    • They are blind, dumb, and savage. They don't even have the intellectual capacity to form a basic government, recognize the Falmer that weren't degenerates, or practice very basic metallurgy.

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    • 107.178.43.196 wrote:
      They are blind, dumb, and savage. They don't even have the intellectual capacity to form a basic government, recognize the Falmer that weren't degenerates, or practice very basic metallurgy.

      They hold a basic level of intellect. They have the knowledge to create homes, weapons, and tools. They might not have government as we know it, but it doesn't mean they don't have a hierarchy of some kind.

      Also, while they are blind, they are able to fight, even if they are unable to handle large groups of trained troops, they can defend their hives (if we want to call them that) and launch raids against weaker targets.

      And while they are savage, so where the Gauls in 390bc, the first time Rome was shacked was by barbarians who Rome had written off as barbarians who held no threat because they where not "trained". The Falmer may not have army's or great weapons, but they are underestimated and written off as minor threats. Threats that come with skills in magic and those creepy poison spitting bugs. Could they take over? No, in the end Skyrim dose have standing army's and fighting groups who could handle any large scale problem, but all it takes is one event to cost innocent lives because "they are blind, dumb, and savage"

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    • Very crude and basic homes and weapons, at least. Most of their shelter comes from the fact that they live in cave systems and Dwemer ruins: their huts aren't very well constructed. On their weapons and armour, it's little more than bits that they ripped off of dead Chaurus: not quite like the quality Chitin equipment that the Dunmer are known to create.

      At any rate though, I do not dispute that the Falmer can potentially pose a threat to settlements: my main opposition is to the notion that they can somehow conquer the surface world. On the Fall of Rome, it's ostensibly similar but ultimately rather different, owing to the complexity of the Fall in and of itself (the Barbarians were far from the only factor, they were just the death blow), and the fact that they weren't exactly blinded and made feral by eating poisoned mushrooms. They had the same intellectual capacity as the Romans, just not the same level of technology.

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    • If Vyrthyr led the Falmer for longer he likely wouldn't have ended up trying to wipe out humanity. Mainly because he didn't care for that, he only wanted to get revenge on Auri-El and then... who knows. Honestly, one does not simply piss off a god so if Vyrthyr had succedded Auri-El probably would have obliterated him.

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    • Agree Caractcus IV, Falmer have potential to became threat if they have capable leader.  Fact that they can choose target, is undeniable prof that they not dumb.

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    • Caractacus IV wrote:
      If Vyrthyr led the Falmer for longer he likely wouldn't have ended up trying to wipe out humanity. Mainly because he didn't care for that, he only wanted to get revenge on Auri-El and then... who knows. Honestly, one does not simply piss off a god so if Vyrthyr had succedded Auri-El probably would have obliterated him.

      I said a leader LIKE Vyrthyr, in which I mean a smart leader with good tactics.

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    • Is there any proof that Falmer have a sense of smell ? I'd like to know this , I've not seen this asked , or even mentioned .

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    • 37.247.93.243 wrote:
      Is there any proof that Falmer have a sense of smell ? I'd like to know this , I've not seen this asked , or even mentioned .

      Well, i don't know about smelling , but i think we all know that they can sense you coming. 

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    • 37.247.93.243 wrote:
      Is there any proof that Falmer have a sense of smell ? I'd like to know this , I've not seen this asked , or even mentioned .

      It's an assumption, not a fact as far as I'm aware. Whether they do or don't have better senses of smell and/or hearing is ultimately irrelevant, as being blind makes for a poor swordsman. All they can do is assume what direction you're in and flail blindly.

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    • You can see their noses. Anyway.... The Falmer could've developed a fifth sense (Losing Sight right?) too sense you.

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    • They don't react to your sent, they react to sound.  Or at least more to sound.I have walked right next to a Falmer, if he used smell to detect I must have been down wind of him because he did nothing.

      I would assume all their senses have been altered, they cant rely on sight, so they use what they have, and seeing at they have great aim for blind creatures, I would say they have done OK in adapting.

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    • Gameplay does not translate to lore: the Falmer have good aim because Skyrim does not have more than one tactical AI for NPCs, and because the Falmer wouldn't be an entertaining enemy if they missed most of their shots and swings. If gameplay were lore, then common roadside bandits across Skyrim and Cyrodiil would be walking around in full ebony armor and would be better fighters than most of the Imperial Legion.

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    • First of all, whether or not they are the most powerful enemies in the game is a matter for debate, and they probably couldn't wage war against dragons. You are correct about them seeking vengeance, although it is just against the "surface world" as the loading screen will confirm, and their extraordinary sense of smell would divert them from any confusion. As for their positioning, it is stated that the Dwemer were mostly based in Skyrim, Morrowind, and Hammerfell, but other groups could have branched out but it is unlikely that they would have Falmer slaves there because the Snow Elves themselves were only in Skyrim, predating the arrival of the first Nords. There is definitely advancement going on with them, though, as they are beginning to build better armor and according to Enthir their raids are becoming more systematic and sophisticated. Even so, there is not much of a chance for a full out alliance due to a lack of any form of speech and the absence of any leader or at least a dominant male. In short I don't believe there is any imminent Falmer uprising, and would be surprised to hear about one for the next Elder Scrolls game, but I have to admit that would make a great topic for a future game, possibly set in another era or thousands of years in the future, depending on what Bethesda decides to do with the Fourth Era.

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    • 75.170.171.108 wrote: FEven so, there is not much of a chance for a full out alliance due to a lack of any form of speech and the absence of any leader or at least a dominant male.

      I figured those woman Falmer with the staffs where in charge, and not men.

      We also only see the caves we can get to, it has been how long since the Dwemer vanished? In that time we have no idea how far they spread out, or if some area's are better off or even smarter. I think they are a huge threat, they wouldn't win, unless something terrible occurred, but the lost of life could be very high, and it could weaken those nations involved depending on how costly a war would be.

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    • I agree that there certainly is a possibility of the Falmer taking over. If they evolved enough.

      While they ARE, in fact, blind, their hearing certainly makes up for it. My current character, a Khajiit with a sneak of at least 80 (I cannot check right now) and wearing shoes that muffle movement sound, if I am not sneaking (or sometimes when I am, if I move too fast or get a little too close), but I am walking, even if I am walking slower than usual, the Falmer can still somtimes hear me and attack immediately. You would think that they might sometimes be a little miscalculated with the position of their attack, but they always know right where I am.

      This being said, their hearing is impeccable, and it seems better than what a normal blind person's hearing would be. They are good fighters, and, as said in the OP, are some of the best enemies at higher levels.

      If they evolved much more, they could certainly take over, if there are, in fact, many, many more that we just haven't seen. Also, there would be no way to prepare for such an attack, as no one knows where these alleged masses of falmer are hidden.

      But as 

      Caractacus IV wrote: And how would the Falmer get out of Skyrim anyway? The entire nation is surrounded by mountain ranges and it wouldn't be that difficult to block the passages out. And as far as we know they can't climb mountains or use boats.

      I agree that it very possible for the falmer to take over all of Skyrim, I also agree that they would not be able to climb the mountains to take over the other nations.

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    • Wow, 130 Messages on this thread already. What have I created?

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    • I've more or less said everything I have to say on the topic. Previous posts are above for anyone that cares to read them: point being, I don't believe the Falmer are capable of very much at all, and many people are mistaking gameplay features for lore.

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    • Raven biter 114 wrote:
      Wow, 130 Messages on this thread already. What have I created?

      You, sir, have created one of the best discussions I have ever done on this wiki! I applaud how long you've made this go, but I'm afraid this is the end. Now it's just time for someone to make a conclusion.

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    • There have been aproximately 3700 years since the Dwemer dissapeared.  If they haven't made significant progress since then(which it kinda looks like) it's a stretch to think that they might have a chance to ever revolt and conquer Skyrim. You can take in consideration this: the two alive Snow-Elf might have been over 4000 years old, so those 3700 years would be a fraction of a generation, but that is only achieved with the use of magic, which we know is not as strong as it used to be. So this leaves us with the average lifespan of an Elf/Mer which is 100-200 years., which makes those 3700 years look like a lot to overturn.

      So, short to medium term they cannot pose any threath to Skyrim, even with a decent general (a genius general would make a difference, but that is a stretch, especially with them being wary of anyone not coming from their own race). But, after one or two eras pass by and they are still ignored, they can develop into a proper threath to anything living in the outside world.  That would be a lot worse, with their specific hate against their masters evolving in just general rage and bloodlust against anything else. They are a race that has nothing to lose, enveloping the saying: "A man who has nothing to lose is the most dangerous creature that there is." perfectly. 

      So yeah, it looks so good from a poetic rise-from-the-ashes kind of way, but it's highly unlikely and mostly wishful thinking from the sources of this lore: a scientist who has studied them forever and a member from within, seeking revenge for it's fallen race.

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    • I doubt this thread is still ongoing, but I believe the Falmer could return to Snow Elves. People tend to forget this is the world of Elder Scrolls where magic and gods exist. Real world knowledge doesnt translate very well into the world of Nirn. I'm sure a good writer can bring them back if they wanted to. Bethesda left the fate of Snow Elves/ Falmer pretty open as if they didnt still might have plans for them. If Bethesda wanted to truly shut the idea down they would have never let Gelebor claim that there might be more conclave Snow Elves out there and that the Falmer are becoming more inteligent. As other stated we dont know what the Dwemer did to them, it could be some sort of magic that degraded the falmer. The dwarves spend thousand of years underground and yet had the regular form of a mer. Maybe the falmer can come back with some divine intervention like Auri-el changing them back or If Gelebor ascends to god hood and brings them back. if not maybe they will evolve to some form of mer with cool glowing patterns like the animals in the forgotten vale.

      As for the Falmer being a threat to the Skyrim, I think so. Given more time of course. Falmer are spread all over Skyrim in caves and in Dwemer ruins. Falmer have been fighting automatons for thousands of year and have survived. The falmer might not win in an all out battle, but if they use guerilla warefar its a different story. Most people cant even go to Dwemer ruin becuse of how dangerious it is, even regular caves.All they would have to do is attack and retreat in succession. The Falmer will always have a safe space to turn to.

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    • I know im late to the party but meh. Shimmermist cave is near whiterun and is connected to dwemer ruins. Inside are of course Falmer. Now some gaurds say they have seen creatures around the area, possibly falmer, and they have chitin fence outside of it. Showing at the least they are going to the outside world. Perhaps over the years they will start to emerge from underground ruins and caves then just start to kill people randomly at night. Slowly pushing outwards. Now there has to be some form of Falmer Structure, how else would they have organized a general revolt, domesticated Chaurus, and not be killing each other. Now im not saying they have a government but perhaps a more tribal government the strong leads the rest follow. So perhaps they will become a sotra new threat to Skyrim slowly attacking people and maybe starting camps in the outside world, this could even mean they regain some sight as they go out more and more, very slowly yes but possible. So full scale invasion is unlikely but more of a slow attack on the people of Skyrim possible.

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