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  • Can someone explain to me , how did the Silver Hand manage to get past the Whiterun front gate , run past all the guards and civillians , get into the heart of the freaking city and enter Jorrvaskr , managed to kill Kodlak ( who also happend to be naked ) , stole all the fragments of Wuuthrad ( why do they want it anyway ? ) and then ran from the city ( while the guards and civillians were just as oblivious as the first time ) with only a few casualties ?

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    • 1. They got in by either bribing the guards, looking innocent (who knows that they want to kill the Companions? They could just be armed, armoured, angry-looking, innocent people) or sneaking past them.

      2. Kodlak was:

      -Old

      -Troubled and distracted, thinking about Sovngarde and about seeing you in his dream

      -Suprised at having a Silver Hand member suddenly attack him

      -Not actually naked, that's a glitch

      3. The popular theory is that they used to be Companions, who left when they found out they were Werewolves. So, they care about Wuuthard. While everyone was distracted with the injured and dying one of them could easily have ran and gathered them all in a sack.

      4. The guards and civilians don't want to die. So, they don't get involved. Or, they were bribed or the SH (Silver Hand) snuck out.

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    • You do realize there were like 20 of them, right Pelagius? There's only one way they could accomplish all this...

      They put all their funding into using a bit of teleportation.

      IT'S THE ONLY EXPLANATION

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    • I have no idea why Kodlak is naked but i think they wanted the fragments simply because Wuuthrad is a very important relic for the Companions. As for getting in and out Whiterun has a water system i always assumed thats how they got in without being seen (and maybe out) also that there maybe wasn't many of them and only one or two got out afterwards.

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    • It's the couriers... They always seem to know where everyone is at and they also just pop up out of nowhere at any given time... I also suspect that the courier is the one sending those "letter from a friend" notes.

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    • Mecha Leo wrote:
      You do realize there were like 20 of them, right Pelagius? There's only one way they could accomplish all this...

      They put all their funding into using a bit of teleportation.

      IT'S THE ONLY EXPLANATION

      YES AND AFTER MANY FAILED ATTEMPTS THEY SUCCEDED! If magic is possible, teleportation magic is only a spell away. They have spent years trying to accomplish this spell, and when they do, they are wipped out before they can share the spell with the world. The gods don't want people to know this spell for some reason. 

      IT REALLY IS THE ONLY EXPLANATION!

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    • Lol at u idiots who are desperately trying to fill an obvious PLOT HOLE!!!

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    • Nobody think they can disguise themselves as merchants, farmers, regular people to enter Whiterun and get close to Jorrvaskr whenever they want? Also there's this exit under Skyforge. Pretty close to the faction HQ to me.

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    • Bilitis wrote: Nobody think they can disguise themselves as merchants, farmers, regular people to enter Whiterun and get close to Jorrvaskr whenever they want? Also there's this exit under Skyforge. Pretty close to the faction HQ to me.

      Why is everyone assuming the Silver Hand are bandits? Aren't they just werewolf hunters?

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    • I don't know is the Silver Hand is necessary evil but if you look at what we know they attacked a faction known by the people of Skyrim to be the good guys. For what I know they hunt any werewolves and that's a problem for me (my werewolves characters) because they don't care what you do with your form.

      Also good or evil, I don't see why it matters on how they got to Jorrvaskr. We sometimes use similar ways in TES V like in Diplomatic Immunity and we're not necessary evil.

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    • Bilitis wrote: I don't know is the Silver Hand is necessary evil but if you look at what we know they attacked a faction known by the people of Skyrim to be the good guys. For what I know they hunt any werewolves and that's a problem for me (my werewolves characters) because they don't care what you do with your form.

      Also good or evil, I don't see why it matters on how they got to Jorrvaskr. We sometimes use similar ways in TES V like in Diplomatic Immunity and we're not necessary evil.

      They are anti-werewolf, hence why they were only after Kodlak who they knew was a werewolf.

      The Vigilants of Stendarr also hunt Daedra, just like the Silver Hand, are they also the bad guys?

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    • They use bandit lines, including talking about paying off their bounties. They also attack you on sight, even if you're not a werewolf or a companion.

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    • Pelagius the Geek wrote: They use bandit lines, including talking about paying off their bounties. They also attack you on sight, even if you're not a werewolf or a companion.

      Wouldn't make sense as to why they were 1. able to get into Whiterun as common bandits and 2. were able to leave without the guards halting them.

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    • That's what this entire thread is about. 

      I guess if they were ex-companions they could have known about the Underforge and got in that way?

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    • Pelagius the Geek wrote: That's what this entire thread is about. 

      I guess if they were ex-companions they could have known about the Underforge and got in that way?

      The back exit is as good as blocked off.

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    • For us, not for Aela, other members of the circle or anyone who knows about it.

      And to answer your question I do consider the Vigilants as evil. All they do is threatening you while you're just passing by and they are fanatics. Similary to the Silver Hand, they don't care what you do with your gifts. Let's compare them to the Dawnguard : they try to protect the world against vampires yet they accept to work with Serana because it's seems like the best thing to do to reach their common goal. They also use trolls, while I'm sure for others they are just dangerous creatures to kill. They understand all is not black and white, even if Isran is still distrustful against Serana. And come on, attacking me because I wear a daedric set? 

      Also Vigilants are stupid, but that's another topic.

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    • I've always wondered that when doing the quest. I'm just looking down at the corpses littering Jorrvaskr and thought to myself. 'And the guards allowed this to happen... why?'

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    • Purrington
      Purrington removed this reply because:
      Unintentional quote.
      03:58, February 18, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Same (well, guards are stupid too). To me if you think about it the most conceivable answer is that they probably don't. I can't imagine the Silver Hand entering by the main door without subterfuge (but they also have other options) otherwise Whiterun will have more deaths.

      That is if devs actually thought that far, of course.

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    • This is my theory to how the Silver Hand were able to sneak right into Jorrvaskr.

      Perhaps before Skjor was killed, he was interrogated by either a witty SH or some Illusion/Alteration magic to draw it out of him, from Skjor they learned of the Underforge, which leads to the outside of Whiterun's walls, the Silver hand proceeded to infiltrate the underforge undedected and the rest is history.

      That is just a theory, and it doesn't explain why the Silver Hand are littering the steps up to Jorrvaskr, but maybe the SH were just stupid and tried to confront the Companions on equal footing, which supports the theory that members of the SH might have one been companions.

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    • So much for the Companions being this all powerful group.

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    • I did that quest yesterday, and there was only a handful of Silver Hand warriors (like, six or seven). So I don't think they'd be too suspicious if they just walked in. After all, the only time Whiterun was closed was when you need to get in for the first time. They could have pretended to be a bunch of mercenaries looking for work or something.

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    • Yeah but as the fighting at Jorrvaskr ensued, it's like the Guards didn't intervene at all, or even notice anything.

      They're too busy walking around the city spouting silly quotes to random civilians.

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    • Purrington wrote:
      Yeah but as the fighting at Jorrvaskr ensued, it's like the Guards didn't intervene at all, or even notice anything.

      They're too busy walking around the city spouting silly quotes to random civilians.

      Made me chuckle.

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    • Purrington wrote: They're too busy walking around the city spouting silly quotes to random civilians.

      That's probably the reason. But then again, guards are never there when they're actually needed (like when murders occur during Blood on the Ice).

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    • You know, they noticed howls coming from Jorrvaskr. Maybe there's hope for Whiterun city guards. Well, minus those who approach you with "Pssst! Hail Sithis!"

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    • They probely came in via underforge or dressed as merchants and reveled themselves when it was too late. They might of also told the guards that the circle were werewolves and the guards were confused and thought they joking or stupid and decide to let them in

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    • Im not sure if this works, but this is my theory. They slaughtered a few guards, stole the outfits and snook in disguised as guards. Maybe???

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    • Actually now I write it it sounds stupid, why would guards attack some people in Jorrvaskr?

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    • Simple.

      It was a lazy way to finish the questline.

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    • yes it may be kinda lazy that they never said this, but come on man, you dont have to be a spoilsport!

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    • Because they're an underground army that hunts werewolves every day.

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    • I personally like to think that they got into barrels and got launched inside via a catapult, Legend of Zelda Windwaker style. I mean I've survived a Giant launching me into orbit because the animation ignores normal gravity physics, I imagine being launched from a catapult would too

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    • It's possible they're former Jorrvaskr Companions. That gives them a motive and would explain why no city guards or civilians were slained by the time we arrived : maybe they knew about the Underforge and they split up with Jorrvaskr because they discovered about the whole werewolf thing.

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    • That's possible. Although I don't see how they could bring themselves to slay their own brothers and sisters simply because the Circle have the option of accepting the beast blood.

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    • Purrington wrote:
      That's possible. Although I don't see how they could bring themselves to slay their own brothers and sisters simply because the Circle have the option of accepting the beast blood.

      I see multiple reasons :

      1) If you quit a faction you're not brother or sister with them anymore. Not that you're necessary hostile, but still.

      2) Jorrvaskr was ruled by a werewolf. It's possible because of that, the Silver Hand sees any Companion as an enemy. 

      3) They're extremists. Maybe details doesn't matter to them.

      If we focus on the end of the quest Purity of Revenge it's a very precise strike, right? Only Kodlak was killed and he's the higher member of the hierarchy. It's like they knew who he was, that he was in Jorrvaskr. I can imagine they became so direct because of Wuuthrad. Anyway, that's my theory.

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    • well, athis was almost killed, you find him on the floor with ria crouched down beside him

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    • I think that's only because present Companions did not stay still while the Harbinger was being murdered.

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    • fair enough

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    • It's just another of those incidental/accidental things in the game that probably wasn't intended for any greater purpose, but if you sneak around in a Silver Hand-occupied location, you'll hear them saying the usual bandit gang NPC comments, which don't exactly ooze virtue.

      Again, it's not likely that was intended to mean anything in particular by design, since most bandits in the game stick to a limited collection of stock phrases, and it certainly saved time and money not to record & build in a whole new set of phrases just for the Silver Hand, but it also doesn't suggest the game is going out of its way to present the Silver Hand as a virtuous organization. As in, if it were deeply important to the game or its designers to give the impression of the Silver Hand as generally upright people, as dedicated to being forthright and fair as they are to slaughtering lycanthropes, they'd perhaps have done something to keep Silver Hand members from wandering around talking to themselves about picking pockets, lying harlots, and so on.

      That's not a surprise, given that the Elder Scrolls games, at least the ones since Morrowind, delight in suggesting that there is not a single group of like-minded people in Tamriel who don't hide some sort of hypocrisy or corruption at their organization's core.

      So, if you choose as a player to take that auto-delivered dialogue to mean anything at all, and that's your call on how you read a few throwaway lines you can find all over the game, it's easy to imagine that the Silver Hand hunts and kills werewolves as their day jobs, but they don't have many scruples in what they do to fund their work or the nasty methods they use to get it done. And, in that case, a terrorist hit-and-run on the Companions would hardly be out of character for them.

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    • I think that 2 or 3 silver hand used the skyforge enterance to get to the pieces of Wuuthrad and Kodlak while a larger group went on a suicide mission to lure all the companions out of Jorrvaskr by doing the obvious storm the front door.

      Using this explanation it explains how they got in and why there are many lying dead on the steps, but the only problem is why did the guards just ignore all the fighting. Bethesda could have solved that by just placing a guard or 2 with weapons drawn near the bodies and thats the end of that.

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    • The lazy writing is what makes it difficult to ascertain the faction's alignment in much of Skyrim. Werewolves are inheritly evil (at least to mortals) because they feed on humans to survive and for sport. It doesn't matter the good intentions of the Companions. They are werewolves. If they were allies then they wouldn't have to hide their existance from mortals. It's like trying to justify being in an abusive relationship because he/she is a good provider or allowing aliens to kidnap humans because "they give us free stuff and cure afflilitions". For all we know members of the Companion only help mortals out a personal sense of atonement for past deeds.

      That's what makes even more difficult to figure out where SilverHand falls into this. If other citizens view WWs with blanket opinion of evil then who's to say they didn't conspire with the SH to just allow them into the city and butcher known Companion members who were WWs. They (devs) didn't provide much backstory or general opinion from the citizens of Skyrim about how they felt about SH members (like they do with say the Dark Brotherhood). Maybe doing nothing or conspiring to kill WWs is the logical response (had they went into more detail)... or perhaps they were conflicted about what to do. If you found out someone you loved or respected was associated with bloodthirsty killers who ate human hearts, you may not be the one that stabs with a blade but you sure as hell aren't going to step in and take the blade for them. The devs could've taken the opportunity here to play out the human element via the citizens of Whiterun. Maybe some aftermath conversation expressing remorse and guilit for not interceding or participating. Perhaps the internal politics of the SH don't matter to most people because they view them as the "lesser evil" to WWs. 

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    • Considering there are shouts that allow you to do potentiallly ANYTHING, and the fact that shouts also exist which are UNAVAILABLE to the player, allowing the user to do even MORE, it's not a stretch of the imagination in any sense whatsoever to believe that the SH could have used a shout that rendered them invisible to everybody when they entered whiterun. 

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    • and they learned shouts how...?

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    • i have no fuckin clue lmfao but it is possible to learn them is it not??

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    • yea, but it takes YEARS of meditation (unless you're the dragonborn). do the SH seem like meditating types to you?

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    • Well Draugr can shout too but it's possible they had meditation (I don't know fo sure)

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    • they lerned it directly from the freaking DRAGONS

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    • That is possible, as Paarthurnax teaches the Dragonborn Fire Breath.

      But this is off topic.

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    • After the disaster at red mountain Jurgen Windcaller founded the grey beards prior to that the thu'm was widely abused by most nords. Until it became law that only the grey beards could choose who was allowed to learn the thu'm as for the dragur it is widley assumed many fought in the dragon war on either side which is why so many of them can use the thu'm 

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    • The security in Whiterun is terrible. Shameful, is what it is.

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    • A FANDOM user
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