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  • Allright, so in-universe metaphysics newbie here, so please don't rip me apart if I say something tremendously stupid, but in most of the lore, it's stated that all of the Tribunal(including Almalexia and Sotha Sil) are living gods, and then, if the only way of being a living god is to achieve CHIM, then why do we never talk about the apotheosis of Sotha Sil and/or Almalexia? Why are they never mentioned? Did Sotha Sil and Almalexia achieve CHIM, or are they a not really living gods like Vehk(Vivec) is? Or did they achieve godhood in different ways and therefore Sotha Sil and Almalexia are indeed living gods, but a lesser kind when compared to Vivec? Why would they treat each other as equals in that case, as Vivec would have the power to coerce them to do anything(I think that a lot of history would have been significantly different if that were the case)? Or is it just that Bethesda left a suspiciously important (in my opinion) information lacuna in here?

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    • I assume that all three of them achieved a state of CHIM the moment they used the Heart of Lorkhan but I may be wrong.

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    • So as we know, the Tribunal gained (initial) power through tapping into the Heart of Lorkhan, but this source is one that needs to be continually replenished. I assume therefore, it is not a permanent godhood/ascension as the path through CHIM seems to be.

      Vivec writes of CHIM and his achievement of such in his Sermons but his Sermons are his own retelling of his past (a very poetic retelling that take many liberties) - potentially to explain (or partially) his ascension to godhood in the first place.

      I actually have no doubt Vivec, of the three, achieved CHIM and considering the process of such, seeing beyond himself and the narrow confines of how mortal Vehk once saw - even, perhaps, Living God Vivec - coercing/forcing changes or obedience from others might not have been a priority or necessity in the mind of someone so Awakened.

      Of course, it would seem that he did use CHIM to wipe Azura's physical form from Nirn (however long/short that lasts) in revenge for...I'm guessing a few things.

      The main things, to me, that would help answer questions is 1) what does achieving CHIM to a once-mortal (aside from essentially achieving godhood) & 2) when did Vivec actually achieve CHIM? Might answer a few questions, but this is Bethesda and we may or may never get an answer - or as per usual we'll get several conflicted answers because they love to show there are different viewpoints in the world and some may or may not be correct.

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    • Of course, what I just said here ^ is all based on the thought of one being able to achieve a godhood/level beyond that of mortality through CHIM and that somehow CHIM is not, Idek, something else entirely? A lot of people in fandom alone have a Million opinions on that.

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    • Sorry to revive an old thread, but since my comment wasn't stated, I'll do it here. I think the Tribunal isn't mentioned because the Nervarine severed the Heart of Lorkhan and made them mortal again.

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    • CatholicPrincess15 wrote: Sorry to revive an old thread, but since my comment wasn't stated, I'll do it here. I think the Tribunal isn't mentioned because the Nervarine severed the Heart of Lorkhan and made them mortal again.

      The original poster was asking if Almalexia and Sotha achieved CHIM, and if they did why is it never mentioned. Only Vivec did.

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    • 45.37.17.32 wrote:
      Of course, it would seem that he did use CHIM to wipe Azura's physical form from Nirn (however long/short that lasts) in revenge for...I'm guessing a few things.

      Revenge for being right about the dangers of the Heart, warning them about Nerevar's return, and still allowing the Tribunal the free will to dig their own grave by their actions both initial and subsequent?  Oh yeah, and making their skin blue.

      Let it not be said that Vivec can't be petty.  The guy/gal may have CHIM, but he's/she's still a dick (or at least his/her spear is).

      As neat as Trial of Hogithum Hall The Trial of Vivec is, I can't help but feel that most of the other role-players dropped the ball, probably because they didn't want to step on the developers' toes.  Vivec was giving them special roles and stuff and they didn't do anything with it.

      Of course, maybe I'm just extremely salty because I don't think Azura did anything wrong.

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    • Muthsera,

      Apotheosis and CHIM are not necessarily one and the same thing. Assuming that one doesn't disregard the 36 Lessons as wholly false, Vivec learned CHIM as a gift from Molag Bal's love on their wedding day, which was after Vivec's apotheosis. Thus, one may ascend to godhood without CHIM.

      And vice versa.

      Tiber Septim achieved CHIM during his mortal life, breathing away the jungles of Cyrodiil into its current geography. Then, at a later date, he died a mortal death. Apotheosis came afterwards.

      Yours in the Scrolls,

      ---The Word Merchant of Julianos

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    • Word Merchant of Julianos wrote: Muthsera,

      Apotheosis and CHIM are not necessarily one and the same thing. Assuming that one doesn't disregard the 36 Lessons as wholly false, Vivec learned CHIM as a gift from Molag Bal's love on their wedding day, which was after Vivec's apotheosis. Thus, one may ascend to godhood without CHIM.

      And vice versa.

      Tiber Septim achieved CHIM during his mortal life, breathing away the jungles of Cyrodiil into its current geography. Then, at a later date, he died a mortal death. Apotheosis came afterwards.

      Yours in the Scrolls,

      ---The Word Merchant of Julianos

      Where can we learn more about this frightful wedding?

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    • https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:36_Lessons_of_Vivec,_Sermon_12

      Muthsera,

      The brief union of the warrior-poet and Molag Bal is described in Sermon 12 of the 36 Lessons of Vivec.

      Yours in the Scrolls,

      ---The Word Merchant of Julianos

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