Welcome, GreyFox06!

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Hello GreyFox06, welcome to the Elder Scrolls Wiki! We're building a collaborative source of information for The Elder Scrolls, and we need your help!

We saw you making some changes to our articles and thank you for it. We hope you choose to further this project, and we hope to see you around in the future. If you choose to stay, here are some links to help you out:

I hope you enjoy editing here! If you have any questions, see the help pages or ask one of our administrators.

--Rupuzioks (talk) 14:34, September 19, 2017 (UTC)

Quest stages

Hi, thanks for your edit to the "Unbound" page. Just remember to format quest journals like the one on "A Blade in the Dark" when adding quest stages. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks! —Atvelonis (talk) 23:34, November 1, 2017 (UTC)

Adding onto this: the quest stages are really supposed to be centered, and everything else formatted just how it is on the quest I linked above (you're not always formatting the ID!!Journal bit correctly, nor centering the values). Another thing to note is that the quest objectives in the Creation Kit do not necessarily line up with the quest stages (e.g. on Prophet (Vampire), they are not in the correct stages). The way we should really be recording objectives is more like, "Objective 1234: Speak with the leader of the Dawnguard," although I have not put this into the style and formatting guide yet. It would be prudent to format it this way regardless. —Atvelonis (talk) 00:27, February 15, 2018 (UTC)
All values are now centered for Journal IDs. —GreyFox06 (talk) 02:54, February 16, 2018 (UTC)
Good to hear! Thank you for fixing that. —Atvelonis (talk) 16:28, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Source Editor

Hey, I notice that you've been using Wikia's "VisualEditor" to edit. This causes a lot of formatting issues in articles, which have to be cleaned up later by our patrollers. One of these, it seems, is automatically placing variables of collapsible tables in an undesirable order; I can fix this particular inconsistency with my bot, but it still takes time away from other tasks that need to be done.

To avoid this, I'd suggest that you set your default editor to the Source Editor via the "Editing" tab of Special:Preferences. Source has fewer bugs, more features, and it teaches you the fundamentals of editing better. The code-like layout can seem confusing at first, but it's not super hard to learn; I have a guide on it here, and you can always ask staff for help or post on the wiki's Discord channel. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 01:23, February 22, 2018 (UTC)

Hey, I usually do use the Source Editor when editing articles but do occasionally use the Visual Editor for small text edits out of convenience. I'll be sure to use the Source Editor for future contributions. Thanks. — GreyFox06 (talk) 04:42, February 22, 2018 (UTC)

Dialogue formatting

Good work with the "A Night to Remember" page! Just a heads up, the first usage of player dialogue should usually be indented one notch if an NPC says an introductory quote in the same <div> container, such as this. I hope you'll continue to add dialogue to articles, that sort of thing is very useful to readers. Thanks! —Atvelonis (talk) 21:12, July 8, 2018 (UTC)

Table formatting

Hey GreyFox. Regarding your edits today, unfortunately a large number of them have to be undone, because adding such tables to the bug section should only be done only if the list is long enough. Sections with only 2 or even 6 bullet points are not big enough to need something like this, they were fine as they were.

In case you may want to add any kind of table in the future, also remember to close it, by putting |} at the end. You can see the execution at the bottom of the bug list in this page, if you go into source mode. Ask away if you have any further questions. —Rozty (talk) 19:55, August 1, 2018 (UTC)

Quest pages

Just a heads up, you shouldn't use a quote from the journal at the top of a quest article with {{Quote}}. You can use the first journal quote (no others) in a blockquote in a ==Background== section instead. —Atvelonis (talk) 19:22, November 8, 2018 (UTC)

Infobox variable order

Hi GreyFox, good work with the edits lately. When you are adding a caption to an image in the infobox, please do not add it to the last line; it should go right underneath the image to which it is being applied. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 17:29, November 27, 2018 (UTC)

Image uploads

Hey GreyFox, when uploading images please do not directly take them from the UESP. It is strictly not allowed and anything copied from the site will be deleted immediately. If you found them will searching for images online, be aware that you must first track the source of the image and, as long as it's not from UESP, include it in the file's summary when you want to upload it here. Since we need to attribute the original uploader, it is very important that you understand where the images you choose to add are coming from.

However, I would still advise against looking for images that are already on the internet. Instead, I'd urge you to take your own screenshots from the game and uploading those here. Relying too much on pictures that were found online is something that should be avoided since we would not be featuring our own content as the TES wiki, but the work of others.

On another note, categories like the ones you added on the Kinlady Ilunsare image (Category:Summerset: Characters or Category:Online: Females) are not used on pictures, they are intended for the articles only. Including both Category:Summerset: Character Images and Category:Online: Character Images is also redundant in this case, just the former would do. Another thing to add, on the image upload page you can find a link to pre-filled templates for most of the image types one would upload, so it would not be necessary to add any extra categories afterward. If you have any questions please ask away. Rozty (talk) 08:37, December 11, 2018 (UTC)

Infobox variables

Hi GreyFox, good work with the quest pages. When you're editing an article infobox, if you want to remove content from a specific variable like you're doing here, please just leave the argument blank instead of removing the entire line. I rely on infoboxes having all variables to do maintenance with my bot, so removing them slows down any infobox-related tasks significantly. It also means that new editors might not even know how to fill in a missing variable later on, if the option to do so isn't even there. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 18:00, January 8, 2019 (UTC)

Line break

Hello, there's no need to remove the spaces in line breaks as you did here earlier. <br /> is the proper HTMl5 format; <br/> (this not working doesn't make sense, but whatever) and especially <br> don't always display properly on all browsers, especially older ones. So try to just use the first format in the future. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 04:09, January 31, 2019 (UTC)

To clarify, you aren't escaping the > in <br /> with the slash. It's a self-closing tag, so you should use a forward slash (/), not a backlash (\). And if you want to link to a section on a page you're already on, you don't need to include the pagename: e.g. on "The Shill Job" you can just do [[#Possible jobs|possible jobs]] for the piped link.
One other thing: we do typically try to avoid excessively reusing links in articles, especially within the same infobox, but image captions are a weird exception here. Most people skim over or ignore captions and look right at the infobox's data-based parameters. You can include a caption link if you really want, but it should never cancel out another link in the infobox. —Atvelonis (talk) 18:59, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

Image reuploads

Hello again, if you're going to edit out a quest marker like you did with the "Locate the Assassin of Old.png" file, you have to upload your edited image as a new version of the existing file, not as a separate upload. This preserves the edit/upload history of the file. If you go to the file in question and look under the "File History" tab, there will be a button that allows you to reupload easily. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 05:02, January 31, 2019 (UTC)

Re: Online abilities pages

Hi, sorry for the late response. <div class="blockquote-half"></div> is used in situations where the quote would collide with the infobox, but would not extend below it (in which case a regular blockquote would be used). Personally I don't think a description section is necessary on skill articles, since {{OnlineSkills}} has a |description = variable in the infobox already. The template also has a |level unlocked = variable which you can use for the level requirement (it goes between |cost = and |morph one = ), although it seems to be missing from many articles for some reason.

The "Morphs" section should have the most up-to-date information; the "Updates" section is used to provide a history of changes to the skills over time and should have everything. I'm not sure what you mean by guides/recommendations; you can't give your own opinions on the encyclopedia, although it wouldn't hurt to have explanations on how the skills are used. I'm afraid I don't know of any "gold standard" for ESO skill pages; they could use a lot of work, honestly. I've been meaning to do some cleanup with them for a long time now, but I keep getting sidetracked. :P —Atvelonis (talk) 01:14, February 5, 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. If there is no objection, I will get around to editing some ability articles to remove the 'Description' and 'Requirements' sections and detail them in the infobox appropriately if missing. I've seen some articles in which updates have been placed in the 'Morphs' section so, again if there is no objection, I will migrate update information in the 'Updates' section and morph details in the 'Morph' section.
By "guides/recommendations" I mean details on how the ability affects and is affected by game mechanics, for example: stating that it is inadvisable to use abilities or sets that both apply major/minor fracture since effects don't stack (surprise attack and night mother's gaze), or how quickly and effectively abilities can be animation cancelled - nothing that would violate rules and guidelines pertaining to neutrality and impartiality. Again, thanks for the info.
Grey Fox (talk) 02:35, February 5, 2019 (UTC)

Re: Banner image

Hello, I saw your message to Atvelonis. The banner is changed already, you might need to clear your browser's cache to see the difference. --Rupuzioks (talk) 15:36, March 1, 2019 (UTC)

No change. I suppose I'm just insane. Thanks anyway.
Grey Fox (talk) 15:54, March 1, 2019 (UTC)
Does Ctrl+F5 not fix it? The way we change it is by literally reuploading an image every year. Currently it doesn't have the Christmas theme. If the issue persists, perhaps send a report to Special:Contact/bug. —Atvelonis (talk) 17:07, March 1, 2019 (UTC)
No change after reload or cache clear. Also on other browsers. I'll make a report. Thanks. - Grey Fox (talk) 17:11, March 1, 2019 (UTC)


Hi, typically in a journal entry blockquote there's no need to use quotation marks around the content as you did here. It should also be italicized so that there is more contrast between the journal content and the background. So no need to change that. —Atvelonis (talk) 19:08, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Also, while I remember, I would ask that you take the time to check if your edits have been altered after you make them (give it a day or two). Editors often leave pieces of advice in edit summaries that they think don't warrant writing a full message. If you go to Special:Contributions/GreyFox06, the edits labeled "top" are the most recent ones made to that page (i.e. it has not been edited since you made your edit). The ones without this label have been changed since you made your edit; you should click the "diff" button on these to see if the changes pertain to something that you did. —Atvelonis (talk) 19:36, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Re: Use of bullet points in infoboxes

Since infoboxes have very limited horizontal space, I would limit the use of bullets where possible. A line break <br /> should be perfectly fine. —Atvelonis (talk) 04:00, March 7, 2019 (UTC)

The correct formatting is <br /> (forward slash), not <br \> (backslash). I don't think the backslash has a particular use in wikitext. The only time I ever use it is as an escape character when writing regular expressions. So just be mindful of that when doing line breaks. —Atvelonis (talk) 17:06, March 7, 2019 (UTC)

Quest classification

One other thing: something like "Hunter and Hunted" is classified as a miscellaneous quest. It is also a side quest, but the most specific categorization is misc, so that's what should go in the infobox. —Atvelonis (talk) 17:20, March 7, 2019 (UTC)

Re: Infoboxes for characters

Technically, those pages should both be split between a lore article (with no suffix) and a game article (with a suffix). The same goes for quite a few other pages on the wiki, but we've not been able to focus the time on catching all of them just yet. For the time being, stick with the game infobox; it's what more readers care about. —Atvelonis (talk) 00:39, March 13, 2019 (UTC)

Quote sourcing

Hey, just an FYI, if you're adding a quote in any context you need to provide a source for it. Pretty much the only exception to this is when you're quoting a quest journal in the ==Background== section of a quest article; the authorship is assumed to be the player character given that extremely specific context. But for something like "No News is Good News," where the quote you've provided is from an NPC, it really can't exist as a blockquote in that same way. So just remember the source in the future. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 02:01, April 7, 2019 (UTC)


When you add a collapsible table, you really need to remember to close off the end with |}. Not doing this will make it so that everything beneath the beginning is included in the collapsible. This can sometimes even mess with interwiki links and the like, so you should be careful to keep an eye on this.

Also, while it's on my mind, I would appreciate it if you didn't make that edit to your profile swapping those two userboxes every single day. Patrollers have to go through all edits to the feed manually to check them off as patrolled, so it just adds to our workload. If you're doing it to stay on track for the Akatosh badge, I would suggest making a constructive edit instead. More beneficial for the encyclopedia that way. —Atvelonis (talk) 20:19, April 19, 2019 (UTC)

Pipe escape

Hi GreyFox, thank you for your continued edits to the wiki. In reference to this one, I just wanted to let you know that we'd prefer if you avoid the pipe in a situation like [[greenhouse|greenhouses]]. It would actually be better if you kept it as [[greenhouse]]s. This displays the same way, but is neater and a bit easier for maintenance. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 12:46, June 19, 2019 (UTC)

Re: Epilogue (Skyrim) attention template

It's marked with {{Attention}} because the editor who added that notice wasn't sure if the pages should be merged, hence the question; {{Merge}} is a more decisive action. They probably looked for a quest called "Epilogue" in the Creation Kit, and when they didn't find it (because no such quest exists; what we call "Epilogue" is actually nameless in the CK), they assumed that it was made up. However, if you sort by Editor ID instead of by Name, then MQ306 does appear, and it has the same content as our Epilogue article. So the page can remain up. —Atvelonis (talk) 15:22, June 23, 2019 (UTC)

Huh that was me. Well I gave the Game Guide a look (apparently this has come up before) and it has the name "Epilogue" (page 154 for the paperback version of the first/nearly first edition of the guide, might be slightly different in the later ones). I will add a note about that on the article. —Atvelonis (talk) 15:45, June 23, 2019 (UTC)

Quick walkthrough

Hey, could you explain what the reason for removing the objective section is on this page? Generally this is desirable by readers who don't have the patience to read an entire walkthrough. If there technically no objectives then you can label it "Quick walkthrough." —Atvelonis (talk) 19:22, June 23, 2019 (UTC)

Re: Strange categorisation

Thanks for bringing that blog to my attention. I don't know how that went unnoticed for 6 years. The Cat Master (talk) 14:33, July 25, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, some blogs still have nnecessary categories / images that shouldn't be there. Unfortunately only admins (or original author of blog) can remove those - I used to just put their links in my sandbox and point Atv to it every once in a while. Or can let an admin know in the Discord (let me know if you need invite for that)

Also good job on all the quest expansions, looks good :) --Shockstorm (talk) 10:03, July 29, 2019 (UTC)


Heya, here's a little trick you can use if you need to add an identical copy of a table or something to another article: go to the source article and surround the thing you want to copy over in the tags <onlyinclude></onlyinclude>. Then go to the page you want to copy the thing onto, and type {{:<name>}}, where "name" refers to the article that you just added the tags to. This lets you "transclude" the contents within the tags from one page to another, but they're only stored in one place, so they only have to be updated once. Very neat! —Atvelonis (talk) 10:33, July 29, 2019 (UTC)

Regarding Busiao

I saw you entered in a discussion, with Busiao No Laughs. While it surprises me at all that you've managed to not completely facepalm in said discussion, I'd caution you against him.

I've had the unfortunate honor of having to endure his baseless arguments and accussations before, and it's something I've come to learn isn't great in terms of keeping topics straight, or open for that matter. He never compromises, and anyone who disagrees with him, well, let's just say he treats them like the spawn of satan incarnate.

Just felt like giving you a warning, kind regards and happy editing.

Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 17:56, July 30, 2019 (UTC)

Image settings

Hi GreyFox, it's good to see you uploading some ESO content. I'm curious what your visual settings for the game are; your screenshots look pretty saturated, perhaps a bit too much so, e.g. File:Temple of the Ancestor Moths (Online) Chapel.jpg is shockingly blue, to a distracting level. I wouldn't say it's explicitly problematic in images like File:Gate of Ghartok.jpg, probably because that scene doesn't have a whole lot of blue light to begin with.

Uploading vibrant/attractive images is good, but I also think it's important not to overdo it; excessive saturation can obscure details that would otherwise be visible. So maybe dial back the color a bit in-game, if you don't mind? And generally speaking it's better to go for daytime images anyway! That should help avoid the excessive blueness more broadly. :P —Atvelonis (talk) 17:18, August 8, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick response and your understanding. Yeah, I know from experience that getting screenshots at the right time in ESO can be a real pain. Since the in-game day doesn't quite line up with the real-world one, it can be annoying to have to adjust your playing time to suit the optimal screenshot time. And making sure that players are out of the shot and everything is a whole different story. But I digress.
By the way—and I think I haven't asked you this before—would you be interested in joining the wiki's Discord server? Most of the staff and a number of prolific editors are in there. It's a pretty good place to coordinate editing projects, ask for quick feedback/help, or just get to know members of the community a little better. We'd love to have you! —Atvelonis (talk) 18:24, August 8, 2019 (UTC)

Re: User page edit

I’m so sorry about that. I didn’t mean to do that. I was checking the recent changes on my iPhone, and accidentally hit rollback link on your profile instead of the history link on an article edit below on the list. The Cat Master (talk) 04:22, August 19, 2019 (UTC)


Thank you for bringing that up. People just won't stop with that vampire nonsense. It's been deleted, now. Ottoman Hold Message Me My Action 02:48:16 September 02, 2019

Re: Image from another website and licensing policy

The wiki uses a CC-BY-SA license in order to host copyrighted content. We don't actually need explicit permission from the copyright holder to host their material, rather we just need a link back to the original, the name of the author, and an explicit message declaring that we are not the copyright holder, and that the information is being shared in accordance with fair use. I agree that the section on licensing on that page is not very useful, though. I've updated it now: do you have any additional thoughts on the clarity of the policy? —Atvelonis (talk) 19:37, September 20, 2019 (UTC)

Re: Timeline dates for Orsinium and Imperial City

Thanks for the message. If ZeniMax has stated out-of-universe that this content is in 2E 582, then we should record it as such. Would you be able to find that exact forum post and add it as an additional citation to each point that is being moved from 583 to 582? The 583 citations should be kept on the page, but the dev post does take precedence. Since we should also record the continuity error, I would recommend that you add a note about this in the "Examples of timeline conflicts" section near the bottom of the page. —Atvelonis (talk) 14:39, September 26, 2019 (UTC)

Less unnamed

Thanks for adding the name of the ruins, I tried making a search for the name of the mobs there, but couldn't find anything. TherasTaneel (talk) 16:55, September 27, 2019 (UTC)

Re: 'Status Effects (Blades)'

Thank you for the explaination, although I wish you had told me sooner, because the page wasn't done. It wasn't an issue that it was anything you said, it was that it wasn't done and needed feedback. Instead of marking it for deletion and no work on your part, either edit it, or give feedback, right an attention or ask the person what is going on.

Now I want to show how you yourself basically said you are wrong in why to delete it. The part where you said most apropriate and can't be added part. This page you were refereing to WAS the added to and most apropriate. It had different and more information that was too much to add to the combat page. 

I would also like to inform you, that the idea for this page matches other pages and how information venn diagrams and has some missing in other pages as it is rellevant to combat only. 

What we do when there is a work in progress is we aplly patients. We wait until something has been worked on enough until it is complete and therefore catagorizes as whatever arguments we try to make. Because if we try to do logic before it's done, our logic is wrong and it's that it's not done, so when we do no work and apply no energy of our own as a form of solving the problem and delete, we basically don't do anything constructive. One thing to ask is if we solving an issue by being something that be described as not spending energy or thought or being lazy. When work can be applied to solve a problem, and someone else just hasn't gotten around to it yet. We need to let them. If we give them a road bump, and set them back, we need to add on that time.

One thing we have to ask is if the thing we are doing causes more time to be spent, this includes on someone elses shoulders. If we are causing more time be spent for others, our actions are probly destructive. What we need to do is add more time onto deciding what we do before doing anything. If we aren't going to spend effort, we spend patients.

What I do, is research pages and compare and contrast, before I make a decsision. If I can't be bothered, I don't bother to help. Many a times I have caught myself by aplying my own advice when anylizing graphs. It is all too easy to make a mistake that refelcts poorly on our selves. What we do, is slow down, take time and anylize. 

If we say the reason the page should be removed supports the page staying, then maybe we are going to fast. The fisrt problem was caused by adding templates too fast. The next one is not waiting until that is fixed, and then the rough draft brought down before any arguments even aply. From now on I will use an attention to inform people what is going on. But I shouldn't have to. People should slow down and use common sence. When they don't common sence can take pages, and pages, and sometimes hours to explain. 

Look at this. This is all the information I can bother to explain why you are wrong. That is only part of why I didn't want to tell you in message. The attention was enough. If I message someone, they can take offence, and when it is a situation where they litterally put in the wording to their side of the story to why they shouldn't have removed something, they can be put on the defensive or I can embarass them, or attract a vindicive person in a wrong mood on the wrong day who could have been a freind or ally as mere extra. It is a situation that is unplesant and time consuming. Not only do I have to rewright an article and be careful of the people who don't think before they do stuff, what I have to do is finish it and make it a rough draft, then not not a rough draft which all in one go, and I have to write this. 

Typically, when someone doesn't use common sence and causes an issue, they require an ammount of explaining that they never are capable of using and it is a waste of time. That is why I didn't message you, because the attention is enough feedback to relize what is going on. Now Im not saying you aply to all parts or it necisarilly applies to you, it's just common of people. Now typically when someone causes an issue by not slowing down and thinking and then allowing more time for someone to fix the problem before trying to judge things, they will then require more explaination (like the attention (like after the attention), which is exactly what happened. Not only that but the attention wasn't enough, which also happened. In other words, you have been predicted kind of accurately thus far, so please take my points into consideration. Now I past this is a little uncertain. I don't know yet where you qualify after all this, so please don't offence.

Now this isn't mean to be an insult or embarass you, in fact that is part of why I didn't want to message you. But look at this book. Please just don't judge rough drafts or message people first, kind of like what you said. I might have just said I'm not done it is a rough draft and somepages will be shortened and mained to others. I have to put all the information on each page first and see what combanitions of aspects are longer on each page and which ones are summerized and mained to. 

For example. Status effects involve combat, but also damage. Doing damage may have plenty of blah blah, damage itself is another concept and may have plenty of blah blah not necisarily all in verb sence. Now adding non combat aspect to the combat is not the most aproriate (like you said). Also, the physical damage has a status effect part, but not elemental. Elemntal will have not the physical damage. Now if someone wants compare and contrast, they can go to status effects, which will also have poison, and others that does not stop damage like it does in combat. Now physical damagae had a status effect aspect that only involved how to handle dealing and receiving it with status effects. Combat does not have that nuance and doesn't need the ellaborate version on it's page, but a shorter version that can be linked to phsycial damage. Combat doesn't need to express how physical damage can be negated in such a nuanced way as in status effect page, so again the information is actually more aproriately relevant and added to the page was deleted.

It is not necisary to add information and make a huge block on one topic. Three different pages with nuances most apropriate to there  aspects is the best aproach. it breaks a monster into different, smaller, distince parts. Rather like this message that could be broken up into two. But I won't because It kind of shows how some info should be broken up.

All this could have been seen by just slowing down and letting me spend hours, and then taking the time to read it all and understand it (or nothing if not) after past rough draft. I shouldn't have to point these things out. Each of use should interested in doing the best job we can or we don't do something. Otherwise, if everyone expects others to tatke the time to explain things to use the whole world suffers. Please. You could be reading the versions by now that don't have the issues, but I need to iniitiate the rough draft (after the time I spent on this that could have seen that finished) part before I can even do that, and then formating and then go past rough draft. All that may not even make it to that point, because since it's not done it shouldn't exist long enough to not have issues. So we spend ten seconds at the expense of wasting hours of time that could go into serving us and the world in general.

Forgive me for having issue with this, it isn't just you and if the race doesn't figure this type of crap out we could litterally go exstinct starting after around 60 or so years with how things are going. This type of thinking is actually a huge problem on the macro scale and not just on issues involving wikis. This crap probably costs trillions of dollars and perhaps recessions and who knows what, keeps us from reaching the stars, who knows. Please don't take this the wrong way, but please. I hope you understand why I don't want to deal with the problem on a wiki to someone. Attention had all the information to figure all this out and I shouldn't have needed to message anyone.

If it can't be dereived from that out than those individuals need to hold themselves to what they can teach me on or whatever. Because quite frankly, it's not that hard to derive everything I wrote from all the information and what I wrote in attention, maybe the world and real life part, but if it couldn't be derived from there, then I'm probably right.

Dutyclaus (talk) 04:22, October 16, 2019 (UTC)

As I said, it's not necisarilly you. It may not be you at all. I was trying to say.
Dutyclaus (talk) 01:10, October 17, 2019 (UTC)


When you have a moment, I just have a message for you on Discord. —Atvelonis (talk) 04:47, October 19, 2019 (UTC)

Bug or Not

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