Welcome, Spymaster Cosades!

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Hello Spymaster Cosades, welcome to The Elder Scrolls Wiki! We're building a collaborative source of information for The Elder Scrolls, and we need your help!

We saw you making some changes to our articles and thank you for it. We hope you choose to further this project, and we hope to see you around in the future. If you choose to stay, here are some links to help you out:

I hope you enjoy editing here! If you have any questions, see the help pages or ask one of our administrators.

--Atvelonis (talk) 20:49, November 23, 2018 (UTC)

Re: Hist/Sleeping Tree Sap[edit source]

Those connections are pretty small and not that noteworthy, similar links can be made about any number of items found in the games if we looked at them with that mindset. It's not enough to warrant a mention in each other's pages, these would be best considered as just two small similarities rather than something closely relating the two. Rozty (talk) 23:08, November 23, 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough! Tastefulnoodz (talk) 00:19, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

References[edit source]

Hi Tastefulnoodz, when you add a reference to an article without any references you have to be careful that you also add the corresponding reference list tag at the bottom of the page. Typically we simply add the template {{Refs}} after the "Appearances" section (although its exact placement may differ; check TES:SF when in doubt). You can also do {{Reflist|<integer>}} to format it as a multi-column list. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 17:56, November 27, 2018 (UTC)

Okay will do thanks! Tastefulnoodz (talk) 21:57, November 27, 2018 (UTC)

Easter Eggs[edit source]

To prevent miscommunication, I would add an explanation for each "easter egg" in the trivia section of each page you added the category to. Otherwise, it's just randomly there, and readers won't know what it's for. Ottoman Hold Message Me My Action 02:03:54 December 04, 2018

Normally I would wholly agree with you, but even with a trivia section explicitly spelling-out the intent of some Easter eggs, there are those who would outright refuse to even so much take it into consideration, accuse it of being mere speculation and demand citing sources that don't exist even though no other similar page is held to such an absurd standard. After a certain point, it stops being a "miscommunication" and starts to look alot like deliberately spiteful posturing that sacrifices the comprehensiveness and propriety of the wiki for the sake of conceit. All over a muffin. Ridiculous. Tastefulnoodz (talk) 18:11, December 5, 2018 (UTC)
In The Cat Master and Blademaster Jauffre's defense, the only thing you put on the page was the category (along with a number of other pages), so there wasn't really anything to back the category. Ottoman Hold Message Me My Action 09:38:01 December 05, 2018
Fair enough but it's hard not to get a little irked when you're putting time and energy into explaining your reasoning behind why you put the article in a category in the first place and all you get is non-responses one after the other; especially when it's coming from people who aren't administrators and have no business acting so petty. Tastefulnoodz (talk) 22:56, December 5, 2018 (UTC)
It would also do to expand the actual Easter Eggs (Morrowind) article (et al.) if you are adding the category to more individual pages. This keeps the information consistent for readers. —Atvelonis (talk) 18:14, December 7, 2018 (UTC)

Attribution[edit source]

Good afternoon Tastefulnoodz, thank you for the edits recently. I wanted to inquire about the source of the image you recently uploaded to the wiki, "Cyrus the Gremlin.jpg," because you did not provide a licensing summary. Is it your own screenshot, or is it from another website? If it's the former, you can find some pre-filled licensing summaries in the "Redguard" section of this page which you should place in the "Summary" box while uploading in the future. If it isn't your image, then in addition, you would also need to provide a form of attribution under CC-BY-SA, the license that we use to host copyrighted content on the wiki. A link in the "source" field is usually sufficient, and if there is a known author then including them in the appropriate field in the template as well is encouraged.

While it's on my mind, you should also remember to add references to pretty much anything potentially contentious/not necessarily well-known, or really anything in the lore in general. So for a situation like this, our sourcing policy would have you add a reference to the end of the sentence with a link to the original material from which you derived this information. Experienced editors would be able to figure out where to look if they wanted to find something Kirkbride said, but the same cannot be said for most readers, so it's important to make things easy for them. In this case, a link to the TIL entry on Kirkbride's posts is fine, although you would have to give the reference tag an "unlicensed" group. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, and have fun editing. —Atvelonis (talk) 21:24, December 8, 2018 (UTC)

So this question was not rhetorical, I actually need to know what the source of the image is so that I can add the appropriate file licensing (or you can do so yourself). There are legal implications for uploading copyrighted content to the wiki without proper attribution, and I would rather not have Wikia or Bethesda on our case about that. We rely on each of them for a certain amount of sponsorship, such as the ongoing raffle and other things, so it's important to maintain a good relationship in this regard. If you do not provide a source for your file, then it will unfortunately have to be deleted! —Atvelonis (talk) 16:30, December 9, 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, I just saw this. The picture is taken from a screenshot of a review by The Cantina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g1rv9aqHlw
I actually ment to add a summery of attribution but for some reason the option didn't pop-up when I uploaded the image and it completely skipped over my mind, so I do apologize for that. As far as unlicenced tags, I've rarely if ever had a need to use them, so I'm not quite sure how they work or how they're different from dropping refs in other cases. Let me know if you have any questions or how I can avoid this confusion in the future, thank you. Tastefulnoodz (talk) 16:40, December 11, 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, I've updated the file description now. I'm going to categorize the image as a creature image even though Cyrus is depicted, since he is in the form of a gremlin.
It occurs to me now that you seem to be using Wikia's proprietary VisualEditor to edit the wiki, rather than the Source Editor. The last time I used VE to actually edit was in 2014, so I could be mistaken here, but I think there actually is not a way to add reference groups in VE (it is not the greatest feature that Wikia has released). I would recommend that you go to the "Editing" tab of Special:Preferences and set your default editor to Source, then scroll down and click Save. The Source Editor has more tools and allows you to edit in a much more nuanced/direct way; instead of relying on the UI of a WYSIWYG editor like VE, you are editing the actual code/wikitext for articles. Wikitext syntax can seem a bit daunting at first, but it's actually not super hard to learn. I have a guide on editing in Source here, and I would be happy to join you in the Chat for a live session if you think you would benefit from that.
In VE you can just click a button to make a reference, but this does not seem to account for reference names or groups, which are still important for many articles. A regular ref in Source looks like this:
<ref>''[[The Song of Pelinal, Book VIII]]''</ref>
You can attach names and groups to any references you like, although the only time we really use groups are for unlicensed references (almost the same thing as "unofficial lore" on the UESP or "obscure texts" on TIL or our old terminology, "out-of-game," but with a focus on copyright rather than those sites' more subjective groupings). Naming references is useful when you want to use them multiple times in an article:
First instance: <ref name="SoP8">''[[The Song of Pelinal, Book VIII]]''</ref>
Later instances: <ref name="SoP8"/>
Likewise, you can also attach a group to a reference to split it off from the rest of them. Here is how you do it:
<ref group="UL">''[[Loveletter From the Fifth Era, The True Purpose of Tamriel]]''</ref>
You can name references with groups as well. Other than separating unlicensed references, groups are only really used for the occasional ==Notes== section (not the same as ==Trivia==). If you're using a group in a reference then underneath {{Refs}}, you have to make a new reference list that refers to the group, such as <references group="UL"/>. —Atvelonis (talk) 18:00, December 11, 2018 (UTC)
So an example of where the {{UL}} template and associated reference tag would be used is here. Kirkbride's Reddit comments are not copyrighted by a ZeniMax Media Company and need to be noted as such. This doesn't denote anything about the canonicity of a statement (not really definable, which is why we tend to avoid the term), but many readers find it useful to distinguish between licensed and unlicensed content nonetheless. —Atvelonis (talk) 17:45, December 22, 2018 (UTC)

Games vs. lore content[edit source]

Hey, I wanted to elaborate on my reversion here so that you understand why this action was taken. Typically we do not record much information in the way of lore on a game-specific page such as this. Technically, the Alduin (Skyrim) article documents the collection of polygons that has been assigned the name Alduin in Skyrim and any associated game data, not the broader figure in the lore. For the sake of organization, that information is generally kept in a dedicated lore page on the subject (in this case Alduin), which should be linked in the hatnote at the top of the article for quick access. Game-specific pages may have brief history/background sections if they really need them, but you should try to avoid adding lore trivia in these cases. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 21:25, December 14, 2018 (UTC)

Skooma[edit source]

Wujeeta points out how it worked. It doesn't matter if her claims contradict the written word; what we see is more important than what we read. A book suffers from the unreliable narrator, what we see take place with our own eyes, however, does not. Wujeeta doesn't just "claim" it's all she needs; it literally is all she needs, as the quest proves.

Wether you choose to accept this or not is irrelevant.

Also: Same thing with Falmer. If Bethesda wanted to have them be elves, their souls wouldn't be white. The established lore is that only Black Souls can capture the souls of an Elf or Man. Indeed, only a Black Soul Gem can take hold of Arch-Curate Vyrthur's soul, yet those of the normal "Falmer"? A white soul gem is enough.

Bethesda made a clear intention here, I suggest you take it. Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 21:06, December 16, 2018 (UTC)

I'll take your "suggestion" into consideration. Please keep in mind in the future how you choose to respond to people on their talk-pages. It can tend to come off as unnecessarily confrontational. I'm not a troll nor am I just going around writing fanfic - I am a contributor same as you. Your authority on here only extends insomuch as your experiance and dedication to the wiki have proven. That's all I have to say about that.
As I said before, addiction is not a measurable in-game mechanic in Skyrim. The Drangonborn can never be addicted and neither can NPC's. So yes, in fact, the only proof we have that she was cured is her own words. No, we do not see her cured because again, we don't see anything. We can't see anything. Her stats, appearance, and dialogue interactions with other NPC's remain completely unchanged before and after she is given the potion. I don't know how you could possibly insist otherwise. While we're on the topic, how exactly is an in-game book which has been published four times within the series an "unreliable narrator" but the word of one NPC is? Keep it mind, I never said she wasn't cured, only that a descrepency exists within the text between what we the player learns and what we're told. Hence why it is part of a trivia entry and not the main article. 
The fact that falmer are elves is self-evident. If Bethesda didn't want us to make the connection between Falmer and other Mer (Bosmer, Altmer, Dunmer, etc) they could have... named them something else? Written an entirely different origin and back-story for them? The fact that during the quest "Discerning the Transmundane" we are instructed to collect blood samples from the surviving elven races, which includes falmer, only further supports that position. The precise reason that falmer produce white souls is up for debate, but the most likely answer for this is game-mechanics - black souls are meant to be somewhat rare and powerful, while the falmer are abundant and generally quite weak, intended mostly to break up the monotony of dwemer ruins and serve as a "goblin" analogue for Skyrim. Yes, the game technically treats them as creatures, but so were orcs in Arena and Daggerfall. The soul-gem argument is, as far as I'm concerned, null and void. The article in question is a lore page, not a strategy guide. Let's keep it that way. Tastefulnoodz (talk) 22:43, December 17, 2018 (UTC)
You're trying to use gameplay over the sake of lore. Her addiction is cured; that's the entire purpose of the quest, if it weren't cured, she wouldn't be grateful for your aid in "curing", it. What a book says means nothing compared to what you see take place in front of your eyes. It's not "the word", of an NPC, she isn't just "saying" she's cured, she was addicted, and after you provide her the potion, she notices she's cured. Hence why she is grateful, and why she doesn't say "well, this potion didn't do jack!".
"Self-evident", yeah right. Let's all just ignore the way souls work in TES in favor of some quest bogus involving a Daedric Prince who tricked his servant, because that's clearly more accurate? Black Souls are not meant to be "rare", at all. Any human NPC carries a black soul; nothing else but that. Human, elf, beastfolk, all three carry Black Souls. Arch-Curate Vyrthur, a traditional Falmer, has a Black Soul, yet his modern day counterparts? They do not. Reason being: His modern day counterparts are no longer elven, nor humanoid. Bethesda made this decision for a pretty damn good reason. Or would you argue that zombies aren't undead, but just badly programmed humanoids?
PS: Stop adding the easter egg category to every page you come across, and cease changing pages which were perfectly fine. You're POV pushing to the extreme.
Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 17:34, December 18, 2018 (UTC)
It's pretty clear from our previous interactions that your motivations are wholy personal and spiteful in nature. I'm done talking to you. Tastefulnoodz (talk) 18:25, December 18, 2018 (UTC)
I'm certain an editor of three years is clearly in this for personal gain rather than the betterment of the wiki... /s. Alas, this is going absolutely nowhere, this isn't the first time people have pointed out your edits. I recommend rereading the guidelines, your edits are in good faith, but not according to policy.
Edit: It'd also be appreciated if (and when) you add the "Easter Egg" category you provide an explanation for the easter egg, like you did for Giant Nirnroot Island after being informed by staff. Another such article would be Temba Wide-Arm, though the latter lacks an explanation.
Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 19:40, December 18, 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I apologize for the lateness of this reply. I have been working on getting a script for AkulakhanBot running and it has eaten up a lot of my time.

I would like to clarify that everything in TES lore suffers from (or is enhanced by, depending on your perspective) the unreliable narrator, not just content that happens to be given to us in a textual format. This includes dialogue, and even physical events the player character observes with their own eyes. Since you are inhabiting an entity in the TES universe, your in-game perception of everything is subject to whatever slants said character happens to have (these could range from implicit biases about this or that to literally hallucinating, for example: who knows?). Nothing that you see is ever indubitably The Truth, so we are expected to accommodate varying interpretations of topics, even conflicting ones. That's just the way the lore is designed. As long as we do so in an encyclopedic fashion, it doesn't have a negative effect on readers' understanding; if anything, it encourages them to look at the lore less narrowly. They can come up with explanations for these things on their own; we don't typically need to decide for readers which one is definitively correct.

The initial edit to the Wujeeta page added the line, "Although she claims a healing potion is all that's needed to cleanse her of Skooma addiction, this is contradicted by in-game sources." The phrase "in-game sources" is not an adequate citation for such a claim. That would be like saying "peer-reviewed science proves that dark energy exists." It might satisfy a casual reader, but it's not helpful to anyone doing research and isn't becoming of an encyclopedia. You need to be extremely specific whenever you add anything to the wiki, because if readers cannot trace back the origins of content added to our articles, we may as well be making up everything we're saying. I would tend to think that the current line, "Despite Confessions of a Dunmer Skooma Eater stating a skooma addiction cannot be cured, Wujeeta's addiction is cured through a healing potion.," is perfectly fine.

I think Jauffre is correct about not strictly considering Falmer to be Mer, insofar as their souls have changed enough that they are more akin to an everyday creature than actual Elves, but this doesn't necessitate that their Merish history be completely ignored. The use of Falmer blood in "Discerning the Transmundane" is pretty clear evidence that their ancestry is still biologically relevant (at least more than it is for, say, Bretons). On the other hand, as Jauffre points out, the "-mer" suffix in "Falmer" is not standalone proof that they are still Mer; the term "Betmer" has the same structure, but the races it describes are considered Beastfolk rather than Mer. Although, from an in-universe perspective, I might attribute this to the Aldmer originally treating anything kinda humanoid (meroid?) or kinda intelligent as just another kind of Elf for the purpose of language (i.e. it is not a particularly scientific classification, more of a historical one). By extension, one could argue that this does not apply to the Falmer, whose name was definitely not misapplied from the start (when they were undoubtedly Mer). However, whatever conclusions we reach based on this are probably a little too shaky to really use as evidence. I personally think it would be fine to use Category:Mer on the Falmer page since their treatment in biology is somewhat ambiguous; anyone seeking to learn more specific information will quickly realize from the lead that it is not entirely clear-cut. The categorization system is not really the primary thing that people use to determine what is true, articles are. But I do not have an especially strong opinion on this topic, and defer to the will of the community.

I have a final comment to make to Jauffre specifically: you have been and are being needlessly hostile in your interactions with Tastefulnoodz. I'm not sure why you feel the need to so openly condescend (is it really just because you disagree with his analysis?), but such behavior is not wanted on this wiki. On the Talk:Muffin (Morrowind) page, your response to his initiation of a dialogue was literally just, "No." As I remarked on that page, such a curt response is rude and does not help improve anyone's understanding of a situation. Your comments on this page are certainly more thought-out, but the fact that you ended the first one with, "Bethesda made a clear intention here, I suggest you take it." is an indication that you do not respect Tastefulnoodz' point of view. It is a very "shut-down" sort of comment, implying that you are right and he is wrong and that there is no way it could possibly be the other way around or somewhere in between. This is not the way you want to approach a consensus. You need to be open to the possibility that what you have to say is not as accurate or helpful as you initially thought. You can still argue in favor of a specific perspective for the course of a consensus, but you should also be willing to concede the claim that you are undoubtedly and universally correct, because it is almost never the case that anyone is. —Atvelonis (talk) 18:29, December 23, 2018 (UTC)

Since Jauffre hasn't responded I'll consider the situation dealt with - thank you Atvelonis for your input (also sorry about the confusion earlier between the Dwemer Culture and Lore: Dwemer categories) - I just wanted to clear up a few things real quickly on the way out: Confessions of a Dunmer Skooma Eater does not say that addiction "cant be cured", and in fact goes out of it's way to state the opposite, it's just the addiction cannot be cured by a potion. It requires personal effort, willpower and self-acceptance. As someone who has dealt with addiction in my personal life, this description is much closer to the truth then what we see with Wujeeta, so admittedly there may be some bias here. That being said, practically speaking if a minor healing potion's base-cost is 17 gold and a bottle of skooma is 25, what stopping anyone from being cured? Why didn't Caius Cosades just take a healing potion insted of letting his addiction get so out of control he's re-called back to the Imperial City? I know it may seem like I'm nitpicking here but I'm just pointing out that this revelation has some pretty important implications to the lore that are worth commenting and arriving at a consensus on.

Also, I'm glad you pointed out the aldmeris use of "mer" being more akin to "folk" but for practical purposes is synonymous with "elves". Language is weird.

I have no hard feelings and I do appreciate all that Blademaster has contributed to the wiki, I just want a chance to be able to make meaningful contributions as well. Tastefulnoodz (talk) 16:46, December 27, 2018 (UTC)

Re: Glenmoril-Hagraven Articles[edit source]

Hello, my point is that the transformation is not specifically pointing out to these coven sisters but to the hagravens. Also I don't know how you are assuming the sentence implies that they were already hagravens in Bloodmoon. Maybe then it needs to be changed to "Her and her coven sisters are depicted as hagravens in Dragonborn." --Rupuzioks (talk) 16:24, January 5, 2019 (UTC)

That's perfectly fine with me. Thanks! Spymaster Cosades (talk) 17:05, January 5, 2019 (UTC)

Planes of Oblivion[edit source]

Hey Cosades,

Considering we started off on a rough start, I suppose I should apologize for the way I acted. It was uncalled for, and I was a tad bit stressed a while ago. So, apologies for that.

Now that I'm here, I felt like I should let you know that your new article is pretty damn good, congratulations are in place. I tried to spot the flaws, and aside from some very minor ones (namely the usage of the word "you"), it seemed to be in order.

As for the lore page of the same article, I felt the need to inform you that in a previous Moot we decided to try and rid ourselves of "(Lore)" articles, preferring to instead have the disambiguation page turn into the lore page. Kind of like we have on the Imperial Legion article, which covers the lore of the Legions and has a "By Game" heading for every game it appears in, in which details specific to said game appear.

I'll repeat what I started with, apologies for the rough start, I hope to see you around. If you have any questions, let me know, I might be able to help.
But most importantly, happy editing!
Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 14:43, January 6, 2019 (UTC)

I appreciate it, and don't sweat it, we've all been there. I myself was in a pretty weird headspace a few months back due to a personal tragedy, which is actually one of the reasons I hopped on the wiki in the first place so I had something constructive to do while I learned how to cope. I know if you've been doing this for a long while now you've probably had your fair share of "know-it-all" kids messing around with pages, I imagine it can get tedious. Just know that if I get heated it's only out of my love for this series, it's never personal.

Thanks! It's still very much a work in progress, but I wanted to get a rough outline and periodically update and move things around when I have the chance. I wasn't aware of the proper protocol, but I just wanted to make sure the pages were clearly distinguished from each other, so people looking for information specific to game-play in Oblivion aren't confused when they sift through an article discussing every plane of Oblivion in canon that doesn’t cover those aspects and vice versa. Duly noted.

And will do! Thanks again Spymaster Cosades (talk) 03:54, January 7, 2019 (UTC)

Image[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, could you tell me where your file File:Caius.jpg is from? Did you take it yourself? How do you know that it depicts Caius? There is no entry for him in the Creation Kit. Would appreciate an answer when you have the time. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 15:55, May 29, 2019 (UTC)

Hi, yes I took the screenshot myself. While he isn't in the creation kit, he appears on the ramparts of the broken wall well before Alduin comes down. As far as I can tell, he's scripted to be there. Went through several play-throughs using console comands to ensure that this was the same npc who gets picked up and thrown off the other side later during the argument between Ralof & Hadvar. Hope that clears things up, let me know if there's anything more I need to do, thanks. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 04:52, May 30, 2019 (UTC)
Ok. The dialogue you wrote is in the Creation Kit, so I'll take your word for the rest. For future reference, there's a link on Special:Upload to User:Atvelonis/Licensing, which has some pre-filled image summaries (ignore the "licensing" dropdown tab on the upload form if you do it this way). The source being the game for these snippets indicates that the uploader took it directly, as opposed to getting it from another website. Doing this covers attribution fully (see: CC-BY-SA).
For now your image has been flagged for reupload since it's not cropped to a 3:5 aspect ratio (e.g. 600×1000, 648×1080), per policy. It can stay on the wiki, but if you want the notice removed then you can follow the steps I've laid out in this guide. If you're taking screenshots from Steam, you can go to Settings -> In-Game -> Save an uncompressed copy to get a PNG version of your images. This is preferable over JPG as it is a lossless format.
P.S. I overlooked the bit in that paragraph about Caius being flung away, sorry. You should try to use an encyclopedic tone when writing here. i.e. use the indicative mood/be straightforward/avoid flowery language. I know it's less interesting than having fun with your writing, but it's one of the guidelines of the wiki. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 16:51, May 30, 2019 (UTC)
Hi, sorry to bother again. Could you tell me how you know that File:Emperor Crab Kirkbride.jpg is licensed as GFDL specifically? If there is no clear licensing at the original point of upload, it's generally best to go with fair use. You also have to provide attribution for legal reasons; I traced it back to TIL per your edit summary, but you have to include this on the file summary itself too. I don't like being a pain about such things, but the last thing I want is to get yelled at by Wikia over a licensing complaint from Bethesda or another copyright holder.
I'm also curious where you found the quote for the Emperor Crab article, "Once, the mighty and colossal emperor crabs ruled all of Vvardenfell! But they put aside divine pursuits in favor of mundane satisfactions, and were diminished to become the mudcrabs of today. And are we any different?" apparently from Visrula the Mad Prophet, a name I've never seen before. The only thing I've been able to find is this quote from the UESP's Twitter, which lacks an actual source. Could you clarify these things for me? Thank you. —Atvelonis (talk) 20:14, May 31, 2019 (UTC)
Disregard the first bit, we actually already had a version of your image on the wiki, here, which is licensed under fair use. But I am still curious about the quote. —Atvelonis (talk) 20:17, May 31, 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Ah, the quote is from an ESO loading screen - I have no idea who "Visrula the Mad Prophet" is either. I tried to add it but I couldn't figure it out. But yes thank you for the explaination and I'll get right on that re-upload when I have a spare moment. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 21:14, May 31, 2019 (UTC)

I see. That's acceptable, then. In the future, if a loading screen quote is attributed to a person in the screen itself, you would include the "—Visrula the Mad Prophet" (or whatever) as part of the actual quote (first parameter in {{Quote}}). You would then put the speaker (second parameter) as [[Loading Screens (Online)|<Name of location> loading screen]] and the source (third parameter) as "The Elder Scrolls Online." —Atvelonis (talk) 19:39, June 3, 2019 (UTC)

Image licensing reiteration[edit source]

I notice that you uploaded another image without the full licensing again. Including this information is not optional: it is a rule of the encyclopedia. We are lenient about this with new editors, but you have been around for a while and I have personally explained this concept to you twice. I will do so one more time to be absolutely unambiguous.

When you upload a screenshot of yours to TESWiki, you must do it exactly like this:

  1. Go to User:Atvelonis/Licensing
    1. Go to the Table of Contents on my licensing page
    2. Click the game you're uploading an image for
    3. Find the particular template that suits the image, e.g. "Redguard Character"
    4. Copy it to your clipboard (Ctrl+C)
  2. Go to Special:Upload
    1. Upload your screenshot from your hard drive with the "Choose file" button
    2. Paste (Ctrl+V) the appropriate template into the "Summary" box on Special:Upload
    3. Do not select anything under the "Licensing" dropdown tab.
  3. Click "Upload file" to complete the process

In the case of a character from Redguard, the appropriate code is this:

|attention      = 
|description    = Screenshot of character.
|source         = {{Redguard}}.
|author         = 
|filespecs      = Cropped.
|licensing      = This image is from "The Elder Scrolls" series of games and qualifies as fair use.
|other versions = 
|cat artist     = 
|cat licensee   = 
|cat subject    = 
|cat type       = 

You may adjust it as needed, of course. This format is valuable for multiple reasons:

  1. Having a standardized template for file summaries makes maintenance significantly easier.
  2. These variables allow for you to extremely clearly denote the source of your image, which is critical.
  3. They also ensure that any other editor will understand the important details about the file instantly.

Note also that if you are uploading a file that is not yours, you must (legally) include a link to the original source of the image, per CC-BY-SA. The {{Bethimage}} (or {{Zenimage}}) template will be on the file no matter what; it is not sufficient licensing by itself.

Generally speaking, I think most people here would agree that I am a pretty easy-going admin. I have no interest in exercising my authority for its own sake. My goal is not to enforce arbitrary rules, but to ensure that the wiki remains as reliable a source of information as possible. For over a decade we have been developing systems to maximize our efficiency and the ease of knowledge transfer for readers, and licensing is an important part of that. It cannot be ignored.

If you are having trouble using the proper licensing, that is a different story. The layout of Special:Upload is not especially intuitive, which is something I intend to address when I get the chance. It is not embarrassing to ask about something if you are confused, even if it seems obvious. I recall experiencing more than a certain amount of self-consciousness when I first joined the site. If there is anything that I can do to help you edit/upload more smoothly, please let me know on my talk page or elsewhere. Thank you. —Atvelonis (talk) 23:15, June 7, 2019 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I seem to always run into trouble with uploading pictures. I thought I had it figured out but apparently not. I thought the drop down tab was suffient in most cases, and trying to enter information to the image after the fact is confusing. I'm actually about to upload another image (for the Vander article) and I will use the parameters you've laid out to do so to the letter. Please let me know if I've overlooked anything or done so incorrectly, I appreciate all the hard work you do and don't want to make it anymore difficult. Thank you for your patience. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 23:51, June 7, 2019 (UTC)
I’m going to answer here. I fixed the picture you added to the Restless League page. I just had to take the “nowiki” things out. I put that in my last message, so I don’t create a link to the file. I’m not as good at the explaining things as Atvelonis is, but I will provide as much help as I can. One last thing, we prefer .png files over .jpg files as they don’t degrade over time like .jpg files can. Cheers The Cat Master (talk) 02:56, June 8, 2019 (UTC)
Hi Spymaster, it's fine. We're tough on images and references here, so people tend to have trouble with them. The two files you just uploaded are licensed perfectly; they each satisfy our licensing policies fully. You might want to add the precise timestamp of the video where each screenshot was taken from (either in the URL or in text), as that makes tracing back the source of the image easier for any curious readers, but this is not strictly necessary. If you didn't crop the image, you can of course remove the "cropped" notice. If you did crop it yourself, then it's fine as it is.
To answer your question about the image placement on articles, you're having difficulty with Cat's explanation because you are using Wikia's proprietary Visual Editor instead of the Source Editor, which is more standard. VE is a great tool to get people started with editing because of the "what you see is what you get" appearance of it—I used it myself when I first joined. However, as you begin to make more advanced edits, you will run into a lot of bugs and functional limitations with VE (the "nowiki" tag that Cat is talking about is one such bug). It is therefore strongly recommended that you switch to the Source Editor when you feel comfortable doing so (though we would prefer sooner rather than later, haha). You can set it as your default in the "Editing" tab of Special:Preferences ("Preferred editor" -> "Source editor" -> Save).
Source looks complicated but it is actually very simple. Text is simply text, but you can use "wikitext" markup and some HTML to manipulate elements of the page. For example, to bold something in Source, you would write it like '''bold''' instead of normally. To add a link, you would write [[Vivec]]. When Cat says "the image parameter," he is referring to |image = Filename.png. You're going to have to learn some new syntax, but once you get past the basics, you can do a lot more with Source. I have a pretty thorough syntax guide here. It's long, so don't feel pressured to figure it all out at once. Editing syntax is best read about on help pages like that, and then applied through trial and error on articles or sandboxes.
I would also suggest joining our Discord server as it's a bit easier than communicating on talk pages. There are a number of staff and other editors on there who can help with questions. You may of course also message me here if you'd prefer, but as you can see I can't always respond quickly. —Atvelonis (talk) 03:23, June 8, 2019 (UTC)
And this is quite minor, but any template you use (like {{Information}}, or an infobox) should have all variables, even if they remain empty. This makes maintenance on my end significantly easier (my bot is not actually that smart, and relies on consistency to get anything done quickly). —Atvelonis (talk) 03:31, June 8, 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Can you please change your editing setting from visual editor to source editor. Atvelonis already explained a bit about it and gave you the link to where you can go to change the setting in a message above. Having to format edits by people who use the VE can get pretty frustrating. The Cat Master (talk) 09:28, June 8, 2019 (UTC)

Image in the infobox[edit source]

Greetings! When you add an image in the infobox, it is not necessary to write "[[File:Filename.png]]". The infobox accepts the "Filename.png" format. —TinyClayMan (talk) 09:20, June 9, 2019 (UTC)

Further feedback[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, thank you for continuing to upload Redguard content, it's much-needed. Just an FYI that the reason we have been bothering you about the Source Editor is because using Visual creates significantly more work for us. If you look at this edit to the Mariah page, for instance, the infobox is put onto a single line instead of being space out properly, the quote is in the wrong place, the file syntax isn't correct (per Cat and TinyClayMan), the header spacing is a bit off, there are extra spaces at the end of each line, VE uses extraneous formatting for many links, and templates like {{Morrowind}} or {{Mo}} seem not to work. You can control none of this in Visual, which is why it's such a poor editor.

You can do an external (off-site) link with only one set of brackets instead of two, the format for an internal link. For example, for an internal link you would write [[Vivec]] (which produces Vivec), but for an external link you would write [https://youtube.com YouTube]. The latter formatting is called a "pipe" and can be done internally with a vertical line, e.g. [[Vivec|that guy in Morrowind]] produces that guy in Morrowind while linking to Vivec. This is explained more fully in my editing guide. You should also aim for descriptive yet accurate file titles, free of unnecessary characters but easy to read. CamelCase is not suggested; spaces and normal capitalization are recommended for file names. So "Mariah.png" would be preferred over "Mariah.png," and "Silent Mariner.png" would be preferred over "Silent1.png."

Are you sure you don't want to join the Discord server? I think it is a much less stressful place to talk about editing, and has methods of private communication if you'd prefer some one-on-one help. —Atvelonis (talk) 14:48, June 9, 2019 (UTC)

Apologies[edit source]

I'm sorry for my snarky comments on the edit summaries in response to some of your edits. I was in a cranky mood, but whatever the case, that was rude and unprofessional of me.

I will ask however, can you please take the editing advise given to you in previous messages regarding the use of the visual editor vs the source editor? It would make things easier on our end when patrolling new pages. As ATV pointed out, visual editor is a rather poor editor. It may be fine for small edits such as typo fixes, but for large edits, it just doesn't work out well. Cheers The Cat Master (talk) 17:03, June 10, 2019 (UTC)

UESP content[edit source]

Hello, we appreciate the missing content you are adding, but plagiarism is not allowed, like you did on this article. You need to write it in your own words or leave it unfinished if it is not your strong point. I am myself horrible at writing longer than one or two sentences paragraph. If you have any other questions feel free to ask any staff members. --Rupuzioks (talk) 17:20, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Oh absolutely, I understand. I've never played Battlespire and the only referance I have is Let's Plays and the UESP. I'll just start from scratch then.Spymaster Cosades (talk) 18:23, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

I offer you a sweettroll[edit source]

Have a sweetroll!
The Cat Master has awarded you a Sweetroll!
For adding all of the ESO mount pages and Battlespire pages!

The Cat Master (talk) 08:35, June 12, 2019 (UTC)

<3 Spymaster Cosades (talk) 08:38, June 12, 2019 (UTC)
I have been noticing an an improvement in your editing. keep up the good work. Your contributions has been a huge help! Thank you! The Cat Master (talk) 08:55, June 12, 2019 (UTC)
I appreciate it! I was a bit hesitant switching to source, but once I figured it out I found it a lot faster and easier. Also, while you're here, I noticed some errors in the mounts template - specifically "White Lion" and "Shadwoghost Guar". As far as I can tell, the White Lion was something data-mined at one point believed to be an upcoming mount but there's no information on it anywhere and I believe it may of just been the Noble Riverhold Senche-Lion. The Shadwoghost Guar is just a typo of the Shadowghost Guar. I don't know how to edit the template but just thought I'd bring it to your attention, and thanks again!Spymaster Cosades (talk) 20:12, June 12, 2019 (UTC)
Autoconfirmed users such as yourself can edit any unprotected or semi-protected page, even templates, in this case {{OnlineMountsNav}}. That template is a little confusing as it calls on a Lua module ("Module:Nav") to display the appropriate part of the template based on the input parameter on articles. We may simplify this in the future, but for the time being you can edit the appropriate sub-template being called on by the module, e.g. {{OnlineMountsNav/Wolves}}. —Atvelonis (talk) 23:05, June 12, 2019 (UTC)

Disambiguations[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, good work as of late. We appreciate the effort you're putting forth here. When you rename a page to disambiguate the title (e.g. if something appears in multiple games), please go to the redirect automatically left from the old title and turn it into a disambiguation page. Then go to Special:WhatLinksHere on that page (My Tools -> What links here) and update the link on those pages accordingly, or add it to my bot page to be done by Akulakhan.

The code for a disambiguations is very simple. All disambigs are structured the same way.

'''<name>''' may refer to:
*[[<name> (Daggerfall)]]
*[[<name> (Battlespire)]]

Here is a live example. The lead should contain that exact phrasing, and the links should be ordered by release date. The template will handle the categorization. Also, while I have you, please also try to name an image the same thing as its article. Spaces in file names to separate words are encouraged; this makes them easier to read. Following these steps will minimize confusion for readers. Please let me know if you run into any problems. I am only a few clicks away. —Atvelonis (talk) 23:01, June 12, 2019 (UTC)

Comic images[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, thank you for the uploads as always. Could you provide a more specific source for these two files? The link that you provided no longer works. The page is broken on Bethesda's website, so you need an archive link.

Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 00:23, June 15, 2019 (UTC)

Sure, the images can also be found on the Imperial Archive [[1]] & [[2]], respectively.Spymaster Cosades (talk) 00:27, June 15, 2019 (UTC)
Wonderful, thank you for the timely response. —Atvelonis (talk) 00:45, June 15, 2019 (UTC)

ESO characters[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, I have some feedback about the ESO character pages you've been making lately. Generally speaking, these are good, but there are some small things you're forgetting/getting confused about.

  • Race names should always be capitalized, and quotes need a source (e.g. the game).
  • It's critical to include a character's location in both the lead and the infobox. If you don't know it, use the {{Missing}} template with the appropriate game/DLC parameter, e.g. {{Missing|Murkmire}}.
  • You also need to remember to use the proper categories on character articles. For most NPCs, this is their race, gender, and location. You can see some of the pages of yours I've edited for examples. If they're in a faction, they also need a faction category.
  • You should list out characters who appear in a given location on that location's page too. Otherwise, these pages will be nearly impossible for people to find.
  • For ESO, the "occupation" field should remain empty unless the character is a merchant. If they are, write "Merchant" under "services" and write the merchant sub-type (e.g. "Tailor") under "occupation." Just note that this is not the title that you see if you pickpocket an NPC; that would go under "class." UESP refers to this pickpocket class as the "profession," if I'm not mistaken. The terminology is not really consistent.

If you have any questions, please let me know. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 01:02, June 15, 2019 (UTC)

Ah, also, Murkmire is a region, and Black Marsh is a province, not the other way around (Location -> Region -> Province in order of increasing size). And if it makes it easier, the proper way to use {{OnlineCharacters}} is laid out very clearly in the template documentation, which you can read here.
I know it's a lot to remember, all very specific, but hopefully these resources can serve as a checklist for you when making ESO character articles in the future. Everything is standardized; there are a lot of details you have to keep in mind while editing. —Atvelonis (talk) 01:17, June 15, 2019 (UTC)
Gotcha! I'll use your recent edits as an example to follow, I'll ask if anything comes up that I'm not sure about. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 01:31, June 15, 2019 (UTC)

Nudity[edit source]

Hello, Wikia will just delete your images if you don't censor the nudity like here and here. I see that you started to do it yourself already, but I'll inform you just in case. It's a global Wikia rule, not a TESWiki rule. --Rupuzioks (talk) 08:24, June 15, 2019 (UTC)

Trivia[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, there is no need to add trivia points along the lines of, "This creature has not appeared in any later title." This is evident from the "Appearances" section and the disambiguation, if applicable. See here and here. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 22:34, June 16, 2019 (UTC)

Interwiki links[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, you have to be careful that you don't copy+paste content in such a way that it removes relevant info from an article. In this case, you removed two links to versions of the article in other languages, which are necessary.

I would also request that you try to keep your edits to as few distinct revisions as possible. We have to manually check all edits made to the wiki, and it's significantly less time-consuming to scan a single large edit than five small ones. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 16:30, June 17, 2019 (UTC)

Redirects[edit source]

If you want to create a page and the name is already taken because the page is a redirect, this generally means that you should not create that page, because it has intentionally been redirected to a different page instead of left as a redlink. For something like Daggerfall skills, I think it's reasonable to have individual articles for them, so in that case it is preferred that you edit the redirect page instead of creating a new one. —Atvelonis (talk) 16:41, June 18, 2019 (UTC)

Okay, how would I do that? Spymaster Cosades (talk) 20:16, June 18, 2019 (UTC)
If you click on a redirect link, you will be redirected to a different page, but if you go to the top of that page then there will be some small text underneath the title that says, "Redirected from X." If you click on "X" then you will be taken to the redirect page itself. You can simply edit it as you would any other article at that point. Alternatively, you may append ?redirect=no to a redirect URL to get to that point. —Atvelonis (talk) 11:32, June 19, 2019 (UTC)

Ren-dro Members[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, is the name of this faction actually "Ren-dro Members," or simply "Ren-dro"? A faction page does not just list members (though you're welcome to create a category for that purpose), so it should probably not be named in that way. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 11:36, June 19, 2019 (UTC)

I just used "Ren-dro Member" because that's what was listed as the faction on the individual pages (Ren-dro Cryomancer, Ren-dro Duelist, etc). I actually originally planned to name the page simply Ren-dro untill I saw that, so it's only for consistancy sake. Your call. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 13:44, June 19, 2019 (UTC)
Ah, those links are a mistake that slipped by in Sept. 2017 when the pages were made. I was off having a crisis at the time and wasn't paying attention to the wiki, and apparently no one else was either. :P The page should be renamed to "Ren-dro" and the links corrected. —Atvelonis (talk) 04:01, June 21, 2019 (UTC)

ESO quests[edit source]

Hello again, I notice that you made a quest article earlier, "The Witch of Azurah." It's good that you have such a broad interest in page creation. I have some quick feedback for you.

  • In general, if an article is missing an image, you should not put {{Missing}} as the parameter for that variable. Our infoboxes are designed in such a way that lacking any content in that spot will automatically generate the appropriate category (this one didn't because we're reworking the categorization right now, ignore that). So you can just leave it blank in the future, or add an image.
  • We typically separate unique entries in fields with a line break <br /> instead of a comma and space. The latter formatting can be confused with a "place, overarching place" format (e.g. "Whiterun, Skyrim").
  • This quest is from Elsweyr, so it necessarily has to be auto-categorized as such. You can do this by adding a parameter to the end of the infobox called dlc, with "Elsweyr" (no quotes) passed through. The lead, appearances section, {{Stub}}, and {{Missing}} should also refer to the quest as being from Elsweyr as opposed to Online, which signifies the base game.
  • Quest pages for ESO usually need three additional categories: one for the region (e.g. Category:Online: Rivenspire Quests), one for the type (e.g. Category:Online: Side Quests), and one combining those (e.g. Category:Online: Rivenspire Side Quests). However, because this is a DLC quest, it just needs Category:Elsweyr: Side Quests.
  • We have a specific system for describing gold rewards given for completing ESO quests. So ZeniMax has a very stupid pair of linear progressions detailing the gold rewards for each character level up to 50 whose slopes I calculated some time ago as being approximately 8/1 for levels 3–15 and 4/1 for levels 16+ (technically 7.916/1 and 3.912/1, respectively, but some error is involved). We built a formula to show this, which can be generated by {{ESOGold}} if you give it the correct parameter based on the difficulty of the quest under consideration. The terminology is described in the template documentation. If you are adding content to both wikis, note that the UESP's terms do not match up with ours (I think theirs are made up, but I don't remember with certainty). In this case, you would write {{ESOGold|Appropriate}}.
    • For those who cannot understand the template, we also record the gold reward in the actual "Rewards" section as the actual range of values that it could be. "Average leveled gold" is a useless metric in and of itself; our formula is better, but still confusing, so this just covers all our bases. You can look at the template documentation for the ranges (no need to do the calculation yourself, in fact you should not do that as there is some error in it; it's more of a napkin math thing). In this case, since the quest has the "Appropriate" difficulty (corresponds to "Standard" in the table), you would write the range as 73–302 {{G}}.
    • If you don't want to deal with any of this, just mark that variable with {{Missing}}, and don't add the gold range to the Rewards section.
  • Generally speaking, please do not copy+paste existing articles when making new ones. Use the pregenerated article templates at the top of the editing window when creating an article, as these are guaranteed to be up to date. It is better to use existing articles as a roadmap, but not a baseline, because they are sometimes wrong.

I know that was a lot of information. Please let me know if anything there doesn't make sense. I would be happy to elaborate as needed. —Atvelonis (talk) 12:09, June 19, 2019 (UTC)

Low-quality images[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, this can be arranged if you were being serious, but it is not acceptable to upload low-quality screenshots to the wiki. The wiki also generally does not permit screenshots from non-official websites to be uploaded, e.g. from random YouTube walkthroughs. We sometimes let this slide, either because uploaders are new or because the content that they're adding is very difficult to come by (e.g. for Travels, Battlespire, etc.), but generally speaking it should be avoided. It is bad form. —Atvelonis (talk) 20:07, June 24, 2019 (UTC)

I'f you're being candid with me, I would take you up on that. Forgive me, I'm little stressed. I'm sorry if the images I uploaded weren't the quality necessary, but I did spend a lot of time looking up, screen-shotting and organizing hundreds of pictures for the past three days only to find them being deleted out of nowhere.Spymaster Cosades (talk) 20:18, June 24, 2019 (UTC)
It's ok. I should have informed you about this earlier, but have been distracted by work and various other tasks. Most of your images are still on the wiki and will remain up unless reuploaded in the future. Today, I deleted 11 that were either duplicates, blurry, or contained UI elements. The reason we do not permit this content is because it reflects poorly on the wiki to host media that readers would consider "low-quality." We would prefer to be seen as a source of high-quality content in all respects.
And yes, I was being candid with my offer. You play on PC, correct? If you add me on Steam then I can gift ESO to you. I do this with the explicit expectation that you will upload content from the game to the wiki in accordance with the wiki's policies and style guidelines. —Atvelonis (talk) 21:03, June 24, 2019 (UTC)
I do - I only need the Elsweyr update, as I already have ESO, so only $39.99? That's incredibly generous of you. I'll add you on Steam.Spymaster Cosades (talk) 16:16, June 25, 2019 (UTC)
Done, please let me know if there were any transactional errors. —Atvelonis (talk) 22:41, June 25, 2019 (UTC)
I don't know what to say, you're too kind. Thank you. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 01:12, June 26, 2019 (UTC)
I just uploaded a full-body screenshot of the character Zamarak. Let me know if it works or if I missed anything.Spymaster Cosades (talk) 05:31, June 26, 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── It's a pretty good upload, but not quite up to standards. The only real reason for this is the resolution you cropped it to, 514×1,006; this is not a 3:5 ratio. All "full-body" NPC images have to be exactly that ratio, with almost zero deviation. You can tell if you got it correct if dividing the smaller number by the larger one produces a value of precisely 0.6 (not 0.61, not 0.59, 0.6). If you have a 1080p screen then I would generally suggest cropping screenshots to 648×1080, or if necessary 600×1000, but as long as it's 3:5 it's probably acceptable. I have a blog on this here.

You should always take screenshots during the day, unless you specifically need to show something that happens at night. This way the lighting is much better. The distance away from the character that you chose was appropriate, but they are not quite centered due to the way you cropped the image. Characters should be centered on two axes; vertical and horizontal. Try to get an equal amount of empty space above the character's head as below their feet, and also try to get an equal amount of space on their left as on their right. I would also aim to place yourself a little more directly in front of them where possible, so that the composition feels more laterally balanced. Here is an example of what is essentially a model character screenshot from ESO.

There is a certain artistic touch that you need to have when screenshotting. You will acquire it in time, as long as you pay attention to the details of your work. Although novice editors are predisposed to viewing wiki editing as a set of menial tasks to be completed in strict accordance with strict guidelines, this perspective betrays a certain lack of imagination. Editing is an art; nearly all aspects of our work here, while directed by various guidelines, have much more humanity to them than one would think. For example, the design of a template, seemingly mathematical and scientific at a glance, is a complex task requiring subjective, creative decisions at every turn. There may be best practices to keep in mind, but the path along the way is full of ornaments that change the shape of the end product.

Likewise, image composition is truly an intellectual pursuit, not an assembly line practice that can be boiled down to "do this" and "do that." Of course, you should always follow the directives we provide; they are "best practices" which will irrefutably improve the quality of your uploads. However, if you look at your images a certain way, they are not merely reproductions of a game, but interpretations of it. File:Monastery of Serene Harmony Statue.png, for example, has a certain presence due to my alignment, the camera angle, the lighting, and my graphical settings, none of which are set in stone. A few in-game hours later and the room would have been far more purple, evoking a different tone. It is the duty of the uploader not only to "accurately" depict something in a game, to the best of their ability, but also to make that depiction interesting to look at.

But I am waxing poetic. Do your best to take good screenshots. Your focus for now should be on balancing your images and improving the ease at which users may view them. Please continue to ask for guidance if you have any interest in doing so. —Atvelonis (talk) 16:22, June 26, 2019 (UTC)

I read the guidelines when in came to cropping and ratios, but I'm not very experienced in that sort of thing. Is their a way to fix this using standard paint editor or Photoshop XI? I tried downloading the "Paint.Net" editor you suggested but it doesn't seem to be working.Spymaster Cosades (talk) 16:32, June 26, 2019 (UTC)
My guide suggests Paint.net because it is very easy to use and is free. Are you having trouble downloading it? The link to do so is right here. If you have a more advanced image editor like Photoshop at your disposal, and are comfortable using it, you can stick with that. It is a personal decision.
I am 100% positive that you can crop images in Photoshop, but I haven't used the software myself so I cannot provide much in the way of specific advice. There should be an option somewhere to fix the selection to a specific size. I would tell it to do 648×1080, and line up your selection with the character properly, and then crop to that selection. —Atvelonis (talk) 16:42, June 26, 2019 (UTC)
In photoshop you can set the ratio here (image), it is located above the file when you use the crop or rectangular marquee tools. TinyClayMan (talk) 17:12, June 26, 2019 (UTC)
Okay got Paint.net working! I'll see what I can do.Spymaster Cosades (talk) 17:33, June 26, 2019 (UTC)
Quick question. How do I remove the red aura around enemies so I can take a good screen shot of them? I used a Add-On to remove the crosshair, but I'm stuck on this. Any idea how should I proceed? Spymaster Cosades (talk) 18:49, June 26, 2019 (UTC)
I'm not completely certain, but I believe that the setting you're looking for might be under "nameplates." I think that if you disable all of the highlight effects, then it should go away. There might be some other settings in the combat section too. P.S. you can remove the crosshair with a keyboard command without add-ons, you need an add-on to get rid of quest markers though. —Atvelonis (talk) 19:43, June 26, 2019 (UTC)

UESP content and ESO images[edit source]

Hey Spymaster. I believe you have been warned about this before, but it is important to understand that we do not allow content to be added from UESP under any circumstances, in accordance with our guidelines. Changing the order of the sentences or slightly altering the content of the text is not enough, any kind of text you add in pages like Hollowjack should be ideally your own, and not plagiarised from unaffiliated sites. Especially regarding the UESP, this is a point we very strictly practice and continuing to go against it could result in a ban. Please take it into consideration when adding information, and instead use direct sources like character dialogue and in-game books to structure new articles. Your work is appreciated, but we cannot keep it if it is taken from somewhere else.

Similarly, images cannot be taken from other websites, such as UESP and even Youtube. Even with including the source in the summary, it is not proper for a wiki to be hosting content retrieved from unrelated people, as it does not paint a positive image for us. Please read through the guidelines so that you can be better informed for all your future uploads. Any images you have uploaded so far that have been taken from Youtube videos will be marked with the {{Imagequality}} template and will have to be replaced by screenshots taken directly from the game. However, if you upload any future images that have been from Youtube we will have to delete them. Avoid leaving hostile messages such as this in the future about the matter, we cannot be over the users' heads at all times and sometimes it will take some time to get to an issue. It's understandable that you did not know this at the start, but now that you have been informed please do not continue to add such images. You are not under any obligation to add to everything by yourself, and we do not expect our editors to do it either, it would be unrealistic. It's fine if you do not have the resources, another editor can contribute to the work you started.

Finally, I would advise you to read through our character image standard. Unlike other types of images, like location and book ones, the character images one uploads have to abide by a somewhat stricter set of standards. Specifically, they have to be full-body and have a ratio of exactly 3:5. Images as the ones you have been adding from the dialogue screen are permitted for ESO characters, but are considered secondary and not a priority. For more details, the guide is very thorough and will help you through the process.

Please take the time to familiarise yourself with our guidelines more in order to avoid the content you add to be marked as low quality/deleted/etc. We do not expect you to know everything from the start, it is only natural that you wouldn't be aware about a lot of different things, which is why we are letting you know about them. You are in the process of learning and that's fine, but it is not appreciated to answer to us with hostility. Rozty (talk) 20:12, June 24, 2019 (UTC)

Will do.Spymaster Cosades (talk) 20:26, June 24, 2019 (UTC)

Replacing images[edit source]

Hey Spymaster, thank you for taking the time to upload so many images for ESO. However, when doing so, please do not add images of anything that we already have in the wiki. Unless the image already existing is marked with a {{Imagequality}} template, then you don't have to add a new one, as it would be unnecessary. Before uploading, make sure that the images you have are needed for the articles, and don't exist already. In the case that you have a better quality version of a picture, do not upload it under a different file name. Instead, you have to go under the "File History" tab of the old image and click the "Upload a new version of this file" option shown under it.

Character images also need to be exactly 3:5 ratio, as well as having at least 720 vertical pixels, as stated in this blog. Anything differing is too small to make out for characters, and would not fit well inside the infobox. I have yet to go over most of the images you added, but please be aware that because of this reason they may have to be deleted. In order to get a bigger resolution, you should try being closer to the characters when taking a screenshot, they would have to take up your whole screen, with just a space left above the head and below the feet. That way, even after cropping the image can be big enough to keep.

Also, please check the talk page that you added to recently for the new message I have left. Thank you. Rozty (talk) 17:13, June 28, 2019 (UTC)

Just something I wanted to add looking through your images; while it's true that character images should be in a 3:5 ratio, Alfiq seem to be a special case, so just an image of the dialogue screen is fine. Atvelonis will be adding it as an exception in the Character Image Standard. Rozty (talk) 17:28, June 28, 2019 (UTC)
All my full body character images are 640x1080, that's the proper ration yes? The only problem with getting that close to characters is the compass/chat/cursor gets in the way. I've done all I can to remove or hide this function while still making the game playable. Are far as pixels are concerned, I'm not sure what I can do about that - I take my screenshots on ulta-high settings. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 18:21, June 28, 2019 (UTC)
640×1080 is not correct, it should be 648×1080. Most of your full-body uploads are much smaller, though. Anyway if UI elements are getting in the way, you should install either the Ultimate UI Hider or Photographer add-on. I have detailed instructions for how to install add-ons laid out in the HUD section of my character image guide. After following those instructions, and installing one of the add-ons, you can then set a keybind in the add-ons section of your control settings to turn off the UI completely. This allows you to take screenshots head-on and without any UI elements at all. You can obviously turn it back on when you are not taking a screenshot; just press the key you've bound it to a second time. —Atvelonis (talk) 18:25, June 28, 2019 (UTC)

Image naming[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, you've been uploading some pretty good images lately. Your location screenshots in particular are very aesthetically appealing. Some of your NPC images are still too small, and I have been tagging them as such. I'm not sure if you've forgotten about the 720px requirement (for height) or if you're just going through images that you took before we explained that.

Regardless, I just wanted to note that you shouldn't call a regular image "Fehdni Full Body.png," just "Fehdni.png." Additional descriptors like that are only really used when the image in question is unusual in some way; for example, if it is not the primary image on the article, if it's a map, if it has some special characteristic or depicts something interesting, etc. So "Fehdni Dialogue Screen.png" would be fine, but the primary image can usually just be the pagename. —Atvelonis (talk) 01:20, July 3, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! Yeah, most of my recent uploads were taken before that. I'll start using that template for regular images from now on. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 01:31, July 3, 2019 (UTC)
Hello, you are doing great for uploading so needed ESO images, I just have a minor advice for you. When uploading give the images more descriptive names, instead of just using numbers, like you did with "Selfora Temple 4.png" image. It could be something like "Selfora Temple Hallway.png" instead of "Selfora Temple #.png". It depends on the content really. This way it will be more useful to readers or editors. Thanks. --Rupuzioks (talk) 18:32, July 9, 2019 (UTC)

Loading screens[edit source]

Hello again, when you upload images like File:Rimmen Outlaws Refuge Loading Screen.png, then you should remember to put them on all relevant pages. In this case, it would also be appropriate on Loading Screens (Online). That page is currently terribly organized; it should be a set of tables with the images in one column, a link to the location in the next, and the quotes in another, but I haven't gotten around to doing that yet. For now the images can just be put in the appropriate gallery. —Atvelonis (talk) 15:50, July 3, 2019 (UTC)

Also, they should be categorized as loading screen images, not location images. There isn't an image licensing template for this yet, so you can just use == Licensing == followed by {{Zenimage}} on a new line and [[Category:Elsweyr: Loading Screens]] on another new line. —Atvelonis (talk) 15:51, July 3, 2019 (UTC)

Lighting[edit source]

I also notice that some of your images are a little bit dark. To avoid this, I would recommend acquiring the "Almalexia's Enchanted Lantern" item, which you can get by completing the quest "A Favor Returned" in Mournhold. This is essentially a torch that allows you to take brighter images indoors. It is recommended for situations where the focus of the image would otherwise be obscured by darkness. —Atvelonis (talk) 16:13, July 3, 2019 (UTC)

Oh cool, thanks I'll do that! Spymaster Cosades (talk) 16:18, July 3, 2019 (UTC)
And while it's on my mind, you should really be naming your images "Sunspire Ceiling.png" instead of "Sunspire 0.png." The number doesn't signify anything and thus isn't as helpful as a descriptive filename. —Atvelonis (talk) 16:26, July 3, 2019 (UTC)

Moot[edit source]

If you're online: the wiki's monthly moot will be occurring in the Live! Chat in exactly 1 hour and 15 minutes. You're welcome to attend if you'd like. We will be discussing policy. —Atvelonis (talk) 18:44, July 6, 2019 (UTC)

Ah sorry, was at the aquarium with my daughter. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 22:51, July 6, 2019 (UTC)
No worries. Stygies or Poisoned Apples will post a summary in the weekly update this evening or tomorrow. The next moot will be on Saturday, August 3rd at 8:00 PM UTC (4:00 PM ET), which you are also welcome to attend. —Atvelonis (talk) 00:24, July 7, 2019 (UTC)

Categorization[edit source]

Hello Spymaster. Congratulations on hitting 3,000 edits and thank you for the continued uploads lately. In addition to Rupuziok's message about image naming earlier today, I have some important notes for you.

Firstly: you have been miscategorizing various images lately, e.g. File:Aralas' Arcane Implements.png. Mournhold is part of the The Elder Scrolls Online base game, not Elsweyr. You should therefore be using the Online preset for the file summary. You have a habit of copy+pasting article/file structures from existing pages, which is not a good idea. It leads to errors. For articles, we have an article creation flow designed specifically to avoid these. Please try to use it! For images, you should be using User:Atvelonis/Licensing directly, not previous file descriptions. The page is linked in large bold text on the upload form. If you make the conscious effort every time you add content to do it this way, instead of passively relying on whatever is on your clipboard, you reduce the chance of a copy+paste error to near-zero. And please double-check what you've copy+pasted both before and after upload. It saves the patrollers a lot of work.

Secondly: many of your images are taken during poor weather conditions, such as File:House Redoran Living Quarters.png, which was taken during a rainstorm, or File:Halfmoon Arms.png was seemingly taken during a storm and at night. Rainstorms make images look extremely dreary, and reduces brightness, contrast, and general color variety in such a way that the images become uninteresting for readers to look at. I know how annoying it is to wait for a storm to end, but there is no need to rush these things. You shouldn't even take interior images at night; sunlight/darkness comes through windows. Just wait until daytime, and clear skies. It would also be a good idea to raise your brightness a little bit in general.

More broadly, I think you have a tendency to try to learn how to do everything at once, which makes it a bit harder for you to absorb all of the details quickly (though you are steadily becoming more proficient). Most editors settle into an ultra-specific niche. :P But it is good that you have a lot of interests, you just have to be alert about them. I'm not entirely sure why you stopped checking the Discord server, but that is a very good place to interact with other editors and create long-term friendships/working relationships, and to be kept up-to-date on policy/formatting changes. For example, in the near future we will begin to automate the race/gender categories on character articles, but it will require different syntax in infoboxes. You will catch onto these changes eventually, of course, but it is better to be proactive about them. —Atvelonis (talk) 21:45, July 9, 2019 (UTC)

To balance that somewhat critical message, I would also like to point out that images like File:The Kind Enchanter.png and File:Hlaalu Kinhouse.png are excellent, and are what you should be aiming for. Good work. —Atvelonis (talk) 04:06, July 10, 2019 (UTC)

Keep up the good work[edit source]

The Redguard pictures you are uploading are very nice, keep up the good work! —This unsigned comment is by Amulet of Kings (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~! 22:27, November 18, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! Spymaster Cosades (talk) 03:14, November 19, 2019 (UTC)

Fishystick[edit source]

Have a fishy stick!
The Cat Master has awarded you a Fishy stick! For the effort you have put toward the The Elder Scrolls: Arena pages. Good work?

Since I double posted a fishy stick for the Redguard pages you made recently, how about I make one of them for the Arena contributions you started working on! Thank you so much for your contributions on those long neglected older games! The Cat Master (talk) 04:40, December 11, 2019 (UTC)

Fishystick[edit source]

Have a fishy stick!
The Cat Master has awarded you a Fishy stick! For the effort you have put toward the The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard pages. Good work?

The Cat Master (talk) 09:04, November 21, 2019 (UTC)

Two fishy sticks mean I’m really impressed! Keep up the good work! The Cat Master (talk) 09:21, November 21, 2019 (UTC)
Thank you so much! Spymaster Cosades (talk) 15:16, November 22, 2019 (UTC)

Revisions to A'Tor[edit source]

Regarding revisions to A'Tor between yourself and Blademaster Jauffre: when another editor undoes one of your revisions, and you believe this to be in error, please do not respond by undoing their subsequent revision. This is edit warring, is counter-productive, and, as such, is against the Wiki's policies. Please, instead, speak directly to Jauffre about the edits to try and come to an agreement. An Administrator can assist in moderation and mediation if necessary. The page will likely be temporarily locked by an Admin to prevent further edits if the edit warring continues.
Grey Fox (talk) 10:35, November 21, 2019 (UTC)

Understood. I was clear in my edit description what the issue was though - it's very clearly a picture of Cyrus on A'Tor's body from the Pool of Mysticism scene and not from the "Resurrecting A'Tor" scene, where we do actually get to see A'Tor's body. It's meant to be symbolic, not to suggest that Cyrus and A'Tor literally have the same face, goatee, and cheek scar. I understand the picture was incorrectly uploaded to begin with but it's still wrong. I hope that clears everything up. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 15:16, November 22, 2019 (UTC)
*bumps in*
A very sharp observation, indeed. After taking a closer look at A'Tor's actual body, his face is indeed different. Sharp eye, keep it going.
Blademaster Jauffre (talk) 16:28, November 22, 2019 (UTC)
Thank you! And no problem, sorry about the confusion earlier. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 04:42, November 23, 2019 (UTC)

Orrery[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, it's good to see you uploading content in such amounts again. Your Redguard images are seriously appreciated. I have a request of you: do you think that you could get an image of the interior of the Observatory that centers on the orrery? One file you uploaded, File:Redguard - Observatory Interior.png, does show the orrery, but only part of it. This orrery represents an important piece of astronomical evidence in the series that is rarely seen elsewhere, and it would be good if we had a perfect image of it. And as a sidenote, images like File:Redguard - Bell Tower World Map.png should be categorized as maps, not as location images, but otherwise your uploads are great. Thank you again! Let me know if you'd like me to clarify anything. —Atvelonis (talk) 19:02, November 21, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! Yeah, I realized a little too late that some of my map image uploads were catagorized a "locations". Oops. I've retified this in my later images. And yes, absolutely! I can take as many pictures as you want of the inside of the orrery. As I'm sure your aware, the third-person perspective Redguard forces you into, as well as some akward camera controls, make getting clear images difficult at times, but I'll try my best! Also while I have your ear, can we change the quest template for "Hunding Talisman" to "Recovering the Soul Gem" or something similar? I'm not sure why the quest was given this name, since the Soul Gem has nothing to do with Hunding and the talismund is an item in Redguard unrelated to the quest (or any quest for the matter). I feel like this leads to unnessisary confusion and would make more sense being named something else. Lemme know, and thanks again! Spymaster Cosades (talk) 15:16, November 22, 2019 (UTC)
Done. And yeah, Redguard is a really difficult game to document. You can certainly feel free to post multiple pictures of the orrery from different perspectives, if that's necessary to show every part of it in detail. Whatever you can do! —Atvelonis (talk) 19:13, November 23, 2019 (UTC)

Brazier of Swords[edit source]

Thanks for the great edits you have been making to Redguard articles. I was just wondering concerning 'The Goblin Caves (Location)' if the Brazier of Swords is, in fact, a sublocation or whether it is better described as a notable item. Sublocations are specific and defined areas of a location that are distinct, sometimes enough to have their own page. How the brazier is described, however, makes it seem as though it is an item found in an area undefined by the game rather than it being a sublocation. If you could elucidate further on this, I would greatly appreciate it.
Grey Fox (talk) 00:08, November 26, 2019 (UTC)

Hi. I suppose it would be more accurately described as an item, although it's location is distinct and it's not something the player can just pick up or put in their inventory. The issue is there are lot of areas of Redguard that are ill-defined, only named and elaborated on in companion guides or other supplementary texts. The entire Goblin Cave is a single large cell, if that helps. I'm honestly not sure how you would define it. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 00:35, November 26, 2019 (UTC)
Notable items don't have to extend as far as being in the player's inventory per se in various circumstances. Although sublocations can be in the same cell, when they are they're typically more defined unlike a single adjunctive room. I think it's more apt to call the Brazier itself an item, especially given that the player directly interacts with it, rather than a sublocation, as it is less ambiguous. Thanks. – Grey Fox (talk) 00:42, November 26, 2019 (UTC)

Reporting vandalism[edit source]

Hey, if you notice something like this pop up in the future, the recommended course of action is to add it to TES:VIP in the way described on the page so that myself or another administrator can block the offending user (we check this page as often as possible). And as a rule of thumb, vandals are really just looking for attention, so it's best if you deny recognition instead of responding to their action directly. Revert, report, and move on! That way they tend to get bored and give up. —Atvelonis (talk) 18:57, December 1, 2019 (UTC)

ArenaItems[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, if you are creating an article for something that doesn't have an infobox, such as {{ArenaItems}} for Mages Guild Diamond, please do not use the wrong infobox. This breaks our categorization, and the infobox won't have the correct parameters. Instead, create the infobox yourself, or ask a staff member for assistance. Categories are the backbone of our organizational system and it is therefore extremely important that they be kept clean and accurate.

Also remember to follow the style and formatting guide when creating articles, so even if there is no preload for a given article, still include stuff like an ==Appearances== section, a {{Stub}} template if it is missing content, etc. Thanks! —Atvelonis (talk) 21:15, December 9, 2019 (UTC)

And as a sidenote, leaving requests for staff (or anyone) via edit summaries is very ineffective. The patrollers/admins do happen to review all edits made to the wiki, but sometimes we are delayed or miss the summary. If you want to get anything done by proxy, the best way to do so is in fact to reach out to a user directly on their talk page. Discord may get you a faster response sometimes. It is fine if you send a lot of messages, but they have to be in the right place, or they will probably be overlooked! —Atvelonis (talk) 21:20, December 9, 2019 (UTC)

Arena Locations[edit source]

Hi, Spymaster. I ran across your changes to Rihad and I would like to make some suggestions.

First, please do review SF:LOCAT. In particular, we do not embed images under location subheadings. I've made a change to the page to show how it is done on the other TESWiki location pages. I have noticed that you have done this on other pages such as Lainebon Place, so I would ask you to go back through the Arena pages you have added images to and reformat them in a similar way.

Second, images are used to decorate the page and to illustrate as a supplement to the words, like with maps. In Arena, all of the exteriors (and for that matter, interiors) of buildings of a kind look almost identical with only slight variation due to the surrounding ground texture. So, with that in mind, I would ask you to go through the list of images on these pages and take out all but one or two of a type, e.g., one inn, one store, one temple and so on. The unique elements in the Other section is fine.

A few minor points are left. When the word 'the' appears in a name or title, it is always capitalized (The Gold Ship). When you do something unusual, like a blank line for the randomly generated name (good idea!), be sure to leave a note explaining what the unusual thing is, as I did. Lastly, except for Other which needs to be last and unless there is some other obvious reason for a different ordering, subheadings in a heading really should be alphabetized: Inns, Stores, Temples not Inns, Temples, Stores.

Thank you for all of your hard work and if you have questions, feel free to reach out to me via my talk page. DaBarkspawn (talk) 03:35, December 11, 2019 (UTC)

I just noticed that you changed Lainebon Place, many thanks. Have a sweetroll!
Have a sweetroll!
DaBarkspawn has awarded you a Sweetroll!
Thanks for refactoring Arena place pages to match SF.

DaBarkspawn (talk) 20:19, December 14, 2019 (UTC)

Arena – Recommended Settings, Image Quality, Poss. Misc.[edit source]

Hey bud. I'm Aly. Though a more common nickie for me is "Dean," nowadays, but that's besides the point. I wanted to talk to you about the quality of your Arena images, specifically location-wise.

I wanted to compare two duplicate images (one you unwillingly duplicated, so no biggie), one taken by you and one by I.

Mainly, a problem with (what I like to call) a 'diminishing return' in terms of quality.

Same image. But mine's smaller. Usually, a larger image means a better quality photo, but in Arena's case there's a point where it being larger means it becomes blurry, and harder to look at. As far as I've deduced, for an onsite location image, my image is the prime example.

960x525 should be the max these images go, exceptions as necessary. It's small, quick-to-load, sharp, HQ, and it fits the 4:3 requirement to properly display all Arena images splendidly. It all mainly comes down to DOSBox settings, that in which case I point you to a specific guide I made for all Arena editors to refer to in setting up the game properly, and with good quality to fit the wiki's requirements:

Thanks! If you need me, please don't be afraid to pop a chat on my talk page!

Nehpys ("AlyMar1994") (Talk) 04:03, December 11, 2019 (UTC)

Will do, and thanks! Spymaster Cosades (talk) 04:05, December 11, 2019 (UTC)

New image uploads[edit source]

Hey Spymaster! I don't know if anyone has pointed this out to you yet, but when uploading a new version of an already existing file, you shouldn't do that under a new name. I noticed this happening with the File:Ghost (Arena).png, which you replaced with a better quality version under a new filename (:File:Arena - Ghost game guide.png). In cases like these, you should instead go to the page of the image file, and under the "File History" tab, you will find a link saying "Upload a new version of this file". That way you won't have to upload the image with a completely different name, or change any pages for it to appear in the articles, and there will be no unused images left behind. Because we want to preserve the image history and all the old uploads visible from it, I will have to upload any of the new duplicate images to the older version, and mark the new filename for deletion.

The only case where we prefer to upload a newer version of an image under a new name is when the files are of different types (.jpg and .png for example). In those cases, it's not possible to upload a new version of the old file, and we are forced to remove it in favour of the new one. When this happens, it is important to mark the unused image for deletion using the {{Delete}} template. If an image is not used in any pages it needs to be deleted. Looking through your uploads, there are a lot of images that you have removed from articles, which I will be marking for deletion since they are currently not used at all.

Another thing I want to bring up is concerning the "Retrieve N'Gasta's Amulet" page. I noticed you uploaded a bunch of very similar-looking images that you added in the gallery without any description. While images are greatly appreciated, especially for a game as forgotten as Redguard, they should be accompanied by at least a short text explaining what is pictured in them. In the case of this page specifically, the images are too many, some are not lit well and some look very similar to each other, which at the end makes the page feel clogged up with them, instead of helping out the reader. They should be accompanied by a reasonably-sized walkthrough of the quest, just pictures are not enough for those viewing the article. I have not marked any of them for deletion in case you are planning to use them in a walkthrough, however please keep in mind that a significant number of them will have to be deleted at some point, even more if we cannot be clear of what they are depicting.

Sorry that I took so long to talk to you about all this, I have been too busy with real life and haven't had much time for the wiki. If you have any questions regarding all this, please leave your reply on my talk page, as this way I will get notified. —Rozty (talk) 11:59, December 15, 2019 (UTC)

Audio file[edit source]

Hello again, this time I won't annoy you too much. This is about one of the audio files you uploaded for Redguard. Specifically this one, as you can see in the {{Attention}} template, goes well over 30s seconds, which is the maximum we are allowed to upload under fair use laws. Anything more violates copyright and we are forced to remove it. Is it possible for you to upload a new version that is at most 30 seconds? As you may have noticed we are lacking in Redguard content so we really appreciate that you have taken an interest in adding all these images and audio files, so we do want to keep as many as possible! Thanks, Rozty (talk) 17:15, December 16, 2019 (UTC)

Holiday Raffle[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, I notice that you've consistently been uploading quite a lot of content to the wiki, but haven't signed up for the holiday raffle that we run every year. Are you aware that this event is happening? It's a nice way for the staff to give back to the community for their hard work, and it shouldn't end up costing us anything—we try to work through Wikia/Bethesda/ZeniMax to pay for prizes. If you're interested in participating, please leave a comment on that thread expressing interest! —Atvelonis (talk) 16:55, December 17, 2019 (UTC)

Codex Scientia images[edit source]

Heyo! Thank you for taking such an interest in adding Arena content lately, it's always nice to find people that care about these older games enough to help add info on them. Reading the Codex Scientia for which you added all the images for is a good way to help the players with the game, however, keeping the whole book uploaded here is too much. To say exactly what Atvelonis did when I asked him about it, "stuff like The Daggerfall Chronicles and the Codex Scientia are actual, published books with ISBN numbers and everything. So if we document every single image on there, that detracts from the value of the work because people would no longer have to buy it to get any information from it."

In short, we would be violating copyright, and so we have to keep these images off the site. At most, the Codex Scientia page can include a summary of all the information the book contains, with a few key pictures to accompany the text. This is similar to how The Daggerfall Chronicles page is looking at the beginning. If you want to help out, you can start by summarising the sections of the book, but please do not upload the whole thing here. Almost all of the images you uploaded will have to be deleted, but you can choose a few of the files you want to be kept that you think would be important for a reader to see.

In the future, I think it would be better if you consult a staff member before making such large scale additions, especially if copyright issues are involved like in this case. It's a shame for all the trouble you went through to just be for nothing, after all, so communicating with any of us will help you out in the end. For this, I urge you to visit our discord server (you can now find the link in the sidebar here on the wiki!) and see what we are talking about there. I am also always available over there and can check it at any time, unlike the website, so I'll be happy to address any questions you may have. Rozty (talk) 16:02, December 18, 2019 (UTC)

Understood. I'll get to work fixing it today. —This unsigned comment is by Spymaster Cosades (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~! 18:09, December 18, 2019 (UTC)

Image reuploads[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, your activity lately has been pretty impressive. I just have something to note about some of the files you've been uploading recently, such as File:Arena - Wood Elves.png. These are uncategorized, but more importantly you are uploading a standalone image of a file that already exists on the wiki. This is not really allowed, as to better preserve file history. For example, on Bosmer (Arena) you replaced File:Wood Elf (Arena).png with your image. Obviously they are slightly different—you have edited yours—but they are fundamentally still depicting the same thing and should not be separate uploads, because then one of them will have to be deleted.

Instead of uploading from scratch, go to the "File history" tab of the image you want to replace and click "Upload a new version of this file." This is what the "Destination filename" field does on Special:Upload. I will give you some time to do this yourself if you want to retain credit for your reuploads, otherwise I will reupload for you. The only time that you would not reupload is when there is a difference in file extension, but these are PNGs so there should be no technical limitations for you.

Generally speaking, it is not worth your time to reupload an existing file unless it is marked as poor quality; given the amount of content that needs to be added, you do have to work strategically. If the reason that you are doing this is because you cannot rename an existing image, please just mark it with {{Rename}} and a patroller will do it as soon as they see it. (If you ping someone in Discord they will do it instantly. The Discord server is an important resource that you should make use of!) —Atvelonis (talk) 17:12, December 23, 2019 (UTC)

Have you read the message I sent above? When replacing an image like File:Clarentavious Valisious.png, you are required to upload a new version of the same image via the "File Summary" tab and not upload an entirely separate file. If you upload a separate version, a staff member will just reupload your image as a replacement for the original one, and your file will be deleted. i.e. your image will exist on the wiki, but not under your name. This is surely a bit of a waste of effort on either party's part, so if you just upload a new version of an existing file to begin with, then there is no issue. —Atvelonis (talk) 22:21, December 25, 2019 (UTC)
Correction, I recall a way to merge the histories of some such files as to preserve both the old and new versions, but this still requires additional work on the end of an administrator specifically. If your uploads can be self-contained/not require any additional maintenance from us, that does help a lot, especially given how much content you have been adding lately!
P.S. I'm afraid I had to clean up a few of your images of the Codex Scientia earlier (which is a shame, because it would be nice for us to be allowed to document that fully), but I permitted a few more than you initially kept on the page. Effectively anything that was a table would be basically impossible to replicate in prose, so images of all such pages can remain, as well as the dungeon maps that you noted. The rest of the text needs to be summarized; it can't be transcribed as that would still be a copyright violation. —Atvelonis (talk) 00:07, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

Sjboy Emulator[edit source]

I updated the link for the Sjboy Emulator. Hopefully, this version of the emulator will also run the games.Amulet of Kings (talk) 23:09, December 27, 2019 (UTC)

Sourcing images[edit source]

Hey Spymaster! Thank you for all the uploads of Daggerfall concept art you've made recently! I was going through the images to make sure everything is alright, and I noticed that some of them do not have a source to show where they were taken from. I've marked them so you can find them in this page (there are only three of them). Can you add a link, or a short text if that is not possible, describing their source? Rozty (talk) 17:58, December 29, 2019 (UTC)

Sure. Two of the images can be traced to the MobyGames data base and I added these to the images sources already. The one image of the "fake" box cover art came from a user on the UESP who claimed to receive a personal email from artist David Lee Anderson. I cannot verify this and it appears that their account has been inactive for sometime and there's no way to contact them. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 05:27, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
Ah, found it! https://www.imperial-library.info/content/ces-cover Spymaster Cosades (talk) 14:53, December 30, 2019 (UTC)

Catacombs of Gripno[edit source]

I was wondering if the images that were in the Catacombs of Gripno page should be deleted along with the article, or do you think they are worth keeping? The Cat Master (talk) 18:27, January 7, 2020 (UTC)

The map image might be useful just for showing the placement of randomly generated side-quest dungeons (since their location is static) but the interior image isn't useful at all (their appearance varies considerably). But any page hosting the image should point out that the name is only one of many combinations. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 18:54, January 7, 2020 (UTC)
Cool. I'll go ahead and delete the interior image and hold on to the map. Thanks The Cat Master (talk) 19:03, January 7, 2020 (UTC)

Re: Arena World Map Icons[edit source]

Hello, I saw your message to The Cat Master, and I want to inform you that I was who added those icons. It is done through {{ArenaLocations}} template and I already updated it. --Rupuzioks (talk) 10:21, January 15, 2020 (UTC)

Cool, thanks! Spymaster Cosades (talk) 15:16, January 15, 2020 (UTC)

Image licensing: action needed[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, I am catching up on image uploads made in the past month and would like to ask for more specific source citations for the following images. The source that you give is not sufficient; it is simply a repository of articles. You must link to the original article from which these images were obtained at all times; it must be immediately visible to any reader where they came from.

The following files also need further licensing attention:

Generally speaking, you should never upload a file without filling out {{Information}} as much as you can. Just because there is not a preset in User:Atvelonis/Licensing doesn't mean CC-BY-SA doesn't still apply! Real-world images can usually be licensed under fair use ("This image will be used in a way that qualifies as fair use under US law"; {{Fairuse}}), and should have the category Category:Real-world Images.

I have also recategorized a number of your images uploaded within the last month as "concept art" rather than "locations" as they were originally described. If you are uploading concept art of a location, its nature as a piece of concept art takes precedence as far as categorization is concerned (same with concept art of a character, etc.).

I understand that I am extremely annoying about image licensing, but it is absolutely essential to ensure that the content that we add is 100% traceable back to its original source, both for legal reasons and for archival ones. There will be a time when someone will search for the original source of a given image, and if the original hosting site is down (likely to occur over a long period of time), the only way they will be able to retrieve the original source is through the use of the Wayback Machine, which requires a specific URL to be useful. If we do not provide that URL, the trail ends, and the sourcing data is effectively lost forever.

Could you trace back where you found these images and let me know when you're finished? Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 02:52, January 31, 2020 (UTC)

Ooof. Alright let's see:
So, the first four all came from the Steam Community Board, so I'm unsure how exactly to link to a specific "article".
The Ebony Armor, Boat, and all Arena audio files were taken by myself.
The developer pictures were taken from personal websites/twitter. I'm unable to pull then up right now as I'm experiances issues with my internet connection currently but I'll prodvide sources asap.
And no, you're absolutely right and not being annoying at all - I've been uploading alot and somethings have evidently slipped past me but I appreciate you bringing them to my attention.Spymaster Cosades (talk) 05:41, January 31, 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the timely response. If you're on the Steam Community Announcements page, you should be able to click on the title of any of those articles in order to go to its individual page. That individual page is what should be linked in the file description (example).
When your internet is fixed, please do find sources for those remaining images! Appreciate it. —Atvelonis (talk) 17:54, February 2, 2020 (UTC)

Source for Sir Galandir[edit source]

Hi. What's the source for the lede quote from the Sir Galandir page? Grey Fox (talk) 03:39, February 3, 2020 (UTC)

Sure. Upon first entering the Temple of Agamanus, the Eternal champion confronts a pair of knights. After defeating them and searching their bodies, the message is displayed as a lettter signed by Galandir. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 04:36, February 3, 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. From the way in which the source was cited, it appeared as though the reference was to a physical item containing the quote rather than a pop-up. I watched some walkthroughs and see exactly what you mean. Ideally, a note should be made of this on his page. Thanks. Grey Fox (talk) 05:08, February 3, 2020 (UTC)

Arena character deletion candidates[edit source]

Hello. Just a heads up, characters that are unique (i.e. named, constant, and common to all playthroughs of a game) always deserve articles, even if they are sparse and lacking much content. You might see that there are particularly a lot of these articles relating to Online characters given the large population of clutter characters that do nothing. But, because they are still named and unique, they each have (or should have) pages. This applies equally to characters in Arena. Thanks. Grey Fox (talk) 03:52, February 3, 2020 (UTC)

Understood. Should I then proceed to add every King/Queen/Lord/Prince in Arena? That's atleast 256+ new articles, all on characters with generic dialogue and no non-random quest significance, are you sure that's what the wiki needs? If it is I'm more then happy to do so, but it really does seem unessisary to me. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 04:36, February 3, 2020 (UTC)
That's the policy we go with. It's ultimately beneficial to readers if we have an individual-page catalog of all unique characters in each game, even if the relevant page contains minimal information due to there being little substance to fill the page compared to other games. Even those small bits of information like character y being the king of x is useful information that becomes easier to find on individually linked and categorised pages and ideally shouldn't be relegated to a random passing sentence in a lore article. It dosn't matter if the Wiki has many, many pages of Arena characters, as they serve as a benefit to readers, and that's the ultimate objective. And as an interesting aside, 256+ is surprisingly limited given Online alone has 21,308 NPC entries and counting, not including multiple counts of enemies. Thanks, and happy editing. Grey Fox (talk) 05:08, February 3, 2020 (UTC)
You shouldn't feel like you have to add them, after all they're pretty low priority. Of course you can if you like, but personally I would lean towards gameplay and lore info. Basically we're saying to not tag for deletion. You could always just take some pics of the generic royalty as you go along, that's what I do for generic chars/enemies when playing ESO --Shockstorm (talk) 08:51, February 3, 2020 (UTC)

Contest reward[edit source]

Hi Spymaster, when you have a moment, I sent you a message on Steam about a prize for the raffle that you won. Please check that and get back to me on there with some thoughts. The prizes are completely free of charge. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 02:56, February 7, 2020 (UTC)

Left/Right pauldron pages[edit source]

The article names for the pauldron pages you created need to be renamed as they don't match with the naming conventions for pauldron pages for other games, which use "Iron Left Pauldron (Morrowind)" for example. Other than that, great work! The Cat Master (talk) 18:01, February 7, 2020 (UTC)

Correct, and I'm already in the proces of doing so. In-game, a left pauldron made from leather for example is listed as "Leather Pauldron (L)" so I wanted to make sure someone searching by that designation arrives at the proper article for it. And thanks! :) Spymaster Cosades (talk) 06:41, February 8, 2020 (UTC)

January edits[edit source]

Hi Spymaster. I've been away from the wiki for a couple of months, so I'm still catching up with a lot of the content changes that happened during January, a lot of your edits included (still have a lot to look through actually, I'm only done with about half of the month). There are a few things that I want to talk to you about that I've gathered here.

The first is a small matter, it's regarding the pauldron naming in Arena. I have renamed the pages back to what you had them at the start. In general, we prefer the naming that appears in-game, so you were correct to label them as you did, I believe everything has been changed.

Another thing is linking. For a number of links you've used in your Arena articles, the destination was not the correct one. For example, you would be pointing to Shimmerene, which is a lore page, when you should be using the Shimmerene (Arena) link. It is very important that these links are used correctly, as they are the way a user will navigate the wiki, and we don't want to cause them confusion.

Finally, and this is the most important one, it's about UESP. I'm aware that you are using the UESP as a way to find information, and while that is not something forbidden, you must never just copy sections of their pages to use here. This is something I noticed in the "Locations" sections of the Arena armor, as well as the "Thick as Thieves" quest you added. Do not continue to do this, use your own words and try to find the information yourself from the games; paraphrasing is also not allowed. I believe that this is something that you have been warned against before, so please try to heed these warnings. Rozty (talk) 15:47, March 13, 2020 (UTC)

Nothing was copied from the UESP, I used it once to find the armor lists, but the format is completely different. Thick As Thieves was written entirely by me, playing the quest myself, so I'm not sure where this accusation is coming from. It doesn't matter, I'm done with this Wiki. Spymaster Cosades (talk) 17:15, March 13, 2020 (UTC)
That is an untrue and misleading statement, and you should not react to a request to follow the wiki's policies as though such a thing is an unjust accusation.
The detailed walkthrough is clearly your own, but the page history shows that you directly copy+pasted the entire "quest stages" section from the UESP, using their markup. You also directly copied the entire "quick walkthrough" section, word-for-word. Unless I am mistaken, this is a paraphrased version of the quest stages; the UESP wrote this paraphrase, not you, marking this as plagiarism. Even ignoring that, the first instance is still very much a violation of policy despite your removing it upon publication.
You are more than welcome to contribute here, but you have been warned about taking content from the UESP on multiple occasions (on 11 June 2019 by Rupuzioks, on 24 June 2019 by Rozty, and again on 13 March 2020, again by Rozty). This is not acceptable. It is obviously easier to just use their information than to write our own, but that's not how we do things here.
If you break the wiki's policies on sourcing/attribution again then you will be blocked. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns. Thanks. —Atvelonis (talk) 22:27, March 14, 2020 (UTC)
I'm sorry you feel that way. As I said, I am no longer contributing to this wiki. That's not me being difficult, just a statement of fact. Wish you both the best Spymaster Cosades (talk) 05:37, March 15, 2020 (UTC)
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