I noticed :P, I went to delete it but it was gone already :O.

Poison Edit

Hey Spec - the poison page is kind of a mess. I'd like to clean it up. Do we want to keep the recepies for poisons? My feeling is that should be a seperate page. Also, do we want to include the "known poisons"? That would mean many new articles for poisons. andy 05:14, 3 March 2007 (CST)

I agree across the board. Make a separate article for Poison Recipes, list the known poisons and clean up the article a bit. I don't think it would be entirely necessary to have a separate article for each poison like we do for potions, you could just list their effects next to the name under a sub-heading in alphabetical order. Thanks Andy. \*\ Hellhound43 08:49, 3 March 2007 (CST)
I second the agreement. Actually, I also think that there isn't a need for separate potion pages either. For general potions, they should be listed together in a table. Any unique potions (e.g. Newheim's Special Brew) can have a separate page, or unique potions can have a Unique potions page. The same would apply to poisons. --theSpectator talk 11:50, 3 March 2007 (CST)

List of Dremora subtypes Edit

Hey Spec, I finished the Dremora merging. I'll leave the deletion of pages to you, keep things clean before I mess anything up. I was gonna suggest that a template be made for "Criticism and Correction". Corny, I know, but I think we could have things like that on collabs, and any other newly edited pages. Of course, this can help create more featured articles. By the way, check out the List of Dremora subtypes page, tell me anything I need change. --Dragon of the Imperial 22:35, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

Looks good to me. After glancing through the first few for a moment the only thing I thought of to add was that dremora mages usually conjure scamps and stunted scamps, IIRC even at the churl level. Welcome back, by the way! \*\ Hellhound43 23:46, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
Also looks good to me. As for the template, can you be more specific on the kind of template you are looking for? --theSpectator talk 10:15, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
Hmm. Well, I was looking for something like... Two people talking as a picture if necessary, and basically the template text will be something along the lines of... "This page has recently undergone large editing, format changing, and user-friendly interfacing. Etc. This page might still need to be changed as to make it easier to use. Please leave a comment here(page discussion)" I'm not sure, but that's the general idea I was going for. --Dragon of the Imperial 17:18, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
Ahh, I see. So, it's kind of like a cleanup/formatting note (which we do have Template:Cleanup), somewhat like a mini-collaboration note. How about something along the lines of: "This article has recently undergone reformatting and reorganization. It may require additional input for organization and expansion. Feel free to leave comments and suggestions here." In what situations would we use such a template? --theSpectator talk 15:53, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
I'd say mostly when we have changed our standard formatting for an article or group of articles, such as with the Ingredients page perhaps. \*\ Hellhound43 17:55, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
You've got the idea. Basically whenever we reformat or change up pages. For list of Dremora subtypes, I obviously took a large page and condensed it. I think this template will be especially useful for larger pages that have been changed dramatically enough to notice. Yeah, the ingredients page could use that. I noticed that it's a fairly large and it's like a tree, one main page that breaks up into many pages, the ingredients themselves. That's why I think this template is useful. I think the template prompt should be not clean up, because that's more of basically that, a clean. We're asking people if they think it's easy to find information on what they want, or if it's out of order to them, etc. I think{{C-and-C}} or anything would be fine, because the original idea was criticism and correction --Dragon of the Imperial 20:32, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
Also, concerning User:TheSpectator/List of Dremora subtypes, which I can only guess I just completely killed because I finished the original list =], I realized all your tables are the same. If you want me to include some more info about each rank, tell me the stat and I'll work on integrating it into the ranks.
Okay, I'll work on the template soon. My "List of Dremora subtypes" was actually just at test page for merging when we first talked about it way back. Feel free to integrate any relevant information in the actual list. --theSpectator talk 04:10, 18 March 2007 (CDT)

Pics Edit

Hey Spec, I could use some pics for the regions articles. I notice you got a mess o' pic uploads, and I was wondering if you'd be willing to take representitive pics of the various regions. I'm just gonna divide this up into categories. These articles have no pics: Jerall Mountains, Nibenay Basin, Valus Mountains; and these articles have borrowed pics: Colovian Highlands, Nibenay Valley, West Weald. andy 02:01, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for sorting that out a bit Andy. I'll try to remember to do that myself the next time I play Oblivion (soon I hope, been away from it for a while). \*\ Hellhound43 02:11, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
I've got the screenshots taken; I just need to resize them a bit and upload them. I'll probably do that today or tomorrow. --theSpectator talk 15:46, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
Thanks! That should be a big improvement for those articles.andy 20:10, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
Done. --theSpectator talk 23:53, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
Hey Spec - the pics look good, esp the one for Nibenay Valley - very dramatic. Nice. I think the articles still need some clean up - the "Description and Topography" sections are muddled and not consistent across the board. I want to include all roads in a region, as well as an opening paragraph above the "D & T" part. Most of the articles still need caves, forts, etc., too. My question is, can I just lift that info from another source online? I think I can find that without too much trouble, and I can't forsee any copyright problems. Also, do we want that info in alphabetical or geographical order? Items like plants etc. are all alphabetical, so it seems to make more sense for consistency sake to make all the entries alphabetical, but I'm open to suggestions. Thanks again for the pics! andy 15:59, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
No problem with the pics; it was fun taking them. For Description and Topography, I suggest remaining the section to just "Description" or "Geography". Regarding filling out the caves, forts, and such, taking them from other sources shouldn't be a problem since it can easily be found in-game (the perfect example is the Oblivion Strategy Guide, which nicely breaks up regions as they really are). I manually checked all the locations for Colovian Highlands in-game myself and they match up with the guide. So I imagine it'd be the same for the rest of the regions.
However, going by the strategy guide isn't perfect because it combines both the Jerall Mountains and the Valus Mountains as well as combining Nibenay Basin with Nibenay Valley. So we'd have to split up those.
The region I most worked with is the Colovian Highlands. I added all the pertaining locations and organized them according to geography (starting from northeast down to southwest) because I think it's easier to think that Camp Ales and Last Chance Camp are somewhat near each other. However, this obviously doesn't apply to a region with two caverns that are on opposite ends of the region. Colovian Highlands isn't finished; I think it needs something, though I'm not sure what.
Also, we need maps of each region labeling all the pertinent locations in that region.--theSpectator talk 13:34, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

I like your stats of two of your races for Obivion Edit

I hope I can have those in my game and try them. Sign by ShakenMike at 4:32PM.

Another Glitch? Edit

Hey, Spec, I was playing Oblivion, as always. Well, I was trying to drop some weight, and I dropped about 300 arrows and I had 100 equipped. I picked up the 300, and the game displayed them as different items, the 100 equipped and the 300 just... there. Well I noticed I hadn't gained any weight. In other words, the game didn't consider the 300 arrows anything, even though they are there, to be of any encumbrance. So I unequip the 100, and they merge for 400. This 400 is now registered as a heavy weight. I just want to make sure it isn't my machine that is doing this. --Dragon of the Imperial 17:40, 19 March 2007 (CDT) ----PS---- If you see any edits, because I'll copy your character layout, (I won't change anything, but just in case you see anything) so I can finally put my character statistics. =)

It's probably a minor spontaneous glitch. As for the character layout, feel free to use it and change it as much as you want, especially Template:Major skill bar. :-) --theSpectator talk 01:23, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
By the way, your character attributes on your user page... it's not persuasion, it's personality. Just a type I saw. ~+~ --Dragon of the Imperial 17:21, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
Thanks; now fixed. --theSpectator talk 18:46, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

A new application? Edit

Hey Spec, just needed to make sure of something. When I try to edit any pages, it asks that I download some x-external-editor or something of that nature. It's supposed to be an application, but my computer is a little strange, and doesn't recognize the application, if it is. By the way, I'm using all my IEs, Firefox, Microsoft IE, Opera, Aol Explorer Browser, and I even tried Konqueror. --Dragon of the Imperial 23:37, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

In the editing section of your user preferences make sure that Use external editor by default is not checked. \*\ Hellhound43 23:58, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
Ahh~ . . . I'm an idiot. Thanks. This usertalk page really needs to archive... or there should be multiple pages. --Dragon of the Imperial 00:04, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
Hey, what is the number after the edit, e.g. on my watchlist, there is an edit, then the user or IP, then some + or - number.
That's the change in file size (in kb I believe) of the page. \*\ Hellhound43 00:20, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
It'll be bytes, 'cos it seems to count the number of characters the filesize changes by. If it was in kilobytes, the pages would be longer than a steamrollered giraffe's neck. -}- SOTS 21:15, 22 March 2007 (GMT)

Shivering Isles Edit

Okay. I know I suggested that we put on Shivering Isles on as a collaboration some time ago. I actually had thought that it came out already... I don't remember where I got that, but oh well. Since the projected release date is fast approaching (around 27th of March), I thought that we could reconsider making it a valid contribution. I'm pretty sure that only a few key members will actually work on this article, just because I've only seen some random IPs doing contributions to most pages recently, due to the low number of registered and active (once a day, at least) users. If the article does become a collaboration, I think it should be on the main page, as well as ingredients. I know that ingredients could use more work, probably for a long while. However, if it is possible to include Shivering Isles in there somewhere, I bet we could get something started on that about 2-5 days after the official and announced release. ~+~ Dragon of the Imperial 18:11, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

I'll be changing the Featured Article in about a week's time, and I'll put the Shivering Isles up as a collaboration as well. I'll just take the ingredients off for now, though it will still be a collaboration. If we need to we can always put the ingredient article back on the main page later. \*\ Hellhound43 19:04, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
Just to let people try it without going directly to our walkthrough, maybe we should keep off the article for a little while. I think we should put it as a collaboration a little after a few days. Honestly, I really do look forward to playing Shivering Isles, and I would really hate to ruin other people's fun. There tend to be the kind of people that look for walkthroughs as soon as possible, and they just end up beating the plug in without any type of surprise or fun. Although that is their call. One last thing, I think that the KotN article isn't quite finished yet either, since finding information on the original Knights is rather difficult. As for the featured article, what do you plan to put up? --Dragon of the Imperial 19:20, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
The House article, as soon as I get a little work done on it, and give each purchasable house its own detailed page. Also, the KotN article is still a collaboration, it's just not listed on the main page.
I don't think it really matters when we start working on the walkthrough, and for the most part it probably will be a few days until it gets put up as after all we each need to get through it as well :). Even so, that's what the spoiler tag is for. \*\ Hellhound43 20:37, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
I think we should hold off on collab for Shivering Isles for at least a week. The reason being is that people would like to enjoy it first (at least I would like to) before having to focus on writing every NPC, quest, and location down.
As for FA, house would be a good one, as stated. --theSpectator talk 20:40, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
Fair enough, I'll be working on it as soon as I get it anyway. \*\ Hellhound43 21:09, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
Hey, does that 1.2 patch completely ruin duplication for XBOX360? I'd hate that, which is why I'm scared to actually touch my ethernet cord. ~+~ Dragon of the Imperial 15:29, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
I'm not sure, since I don't have Oblivion for 360. How 'bout try it? ;-P Hehe. You gotta play Oblivion with some legitimacy, lol. --theSpectator talk 18:46, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
The only problem is my use of Daedric arrows... they aren't exactly sold in stores, and at my high level, I won't take much else... Oh well.... ~+~ Dragon of the Imperial 19:10, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
If you want to keep the duplication glitch do NOT update... it takes it away, but the patch has some nice features a minor graphics & draw distance improvement. Oh and thanks for helping with the Minor Skill Bar Template! Master_Of_Games1

No prob with the minor skill bar, however, I can't figure out how to remove the extra column. I'm away from home right now, so I'll figure it out later. Thanks for clarifying the patch fixes. --theSpectator talk 19:35, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

That ok don't worry. Ill edit what happened with the fixes in a moment. I have a few things to edit into different bits in a moment. Ie. What the patch fixes, and about how Xbox 360 users will not be able to download Shivering Isles untill late Tuesday night as Xbox Live will be down for 14 hours.
We seem to have 2 pages about Shivering Isles, & ...does ObivioWiki need 2 or just 1? Master_Of_Games1
(Fixed the indents for ya). The Elder Scrolls IV: Shivering Isles page is simply about the expansion itself, its features, pricing, etc. Shivering Isles is about the actual Shivering Isles location where you explore. It is the same concept as having The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion discussing the actual game in general, while Oblivion is the location within Oblivion Gates. --theSpectator talk 19:46, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
EDIT: By the way, just fixed that extra column issue. --theSpectator talk 19:48, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
Ah, thanks. I get it now, lol. The note that I added can be taken away on wednesday. Its just there to help people if they can't download it on Tuesday because of it. Master_Of_Games1

Dragonfire Castle Edit

Thanks for the welcome! Well I'm sorry to hear that this might just be some kind of silly joke, but still I think it's a good thing if every Oblivion players know about it. Only time will tell us if Bethesda's amazing crew is truly working on such a project, but still I'm here to help you guys by making my part for this site and if you think this topic is shouldn't be more investigated well I'll stop right here. --Aracno1D

Thanks for replying. But since this is the case, I'm going to trim the article down to just the basics of the rumor, and not with extra other stuff. The rumor has been going on for many months and nothing new has surfaced, so at this point, we'll just leave the article at a minimum. If new info from a reliable source does come up, then we can certainly add that. --theSpectator talk 14:05, 26 March 2007 (CDT)
Sounds good to me. Thanks for being so quick at answering.

Main Page Shivering Isles Bug Update Edit

Hey, I heard that huge limit FORMID bug has been killing the players. Why not put it on the main page? It will anger people otherwise, but by putting a little warning in, they'll see it and not permanently delete all their data. ~+~ Dragon of the Imperial 17:03, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

Added it temporarily. --theSpectator talk 00:58, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

TES:CS UpdateEdit

Hey Spec, not sure if you heard or noticed or not yet but I just found out (had to do some digging) that BethSoft finally released v1.2 of the Construction Set. Should we add a note about it in the "What's New?" box on the main page? \*\ Hellhound43 00:44, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Sure; go ahead and add it. I just updated my CS yesterday when it wasn't working with the SI expansion. --theSpectator talk 00:58, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Merchants Edit

I've looked around the wiki a few times and I could never find which merchants had the most money to work with (for selling). I'm sure this is common knowledge to someone, but it seems like something that would be important for the Starter Guide or Tips sections. -- 11:41, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

We don't really have any comprehensive information like that yet, I'm afraid. As far as at the beginning of the game is concerned, I generally sell my loot to Thoronir at The Copious Coinpurse, as I usually get the best prices out of him. What would probably be a good idea would be to produce a List of Merchants (similar to Spell Merchants, perhaps) and list them by either their budget, mercantile skill, or type of merchandise bought/sold. \*\ Hellhound43 12:20, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
I suppose my definition of beginner is skewed a little, I have a 31 character, but I still consider myself a beginner. I'm going to go wonder around the Imperial City of a little bit, see what I can find. -- 14:01, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
Don't really know how else to submit the data I've found so far, so here it is. Feel free to move it or delete it if something is wrong, I have it backed up. Also, the defense and attack readings are inaccurate, my character isn't a master at anything yet. In addition, I couldn't find Cicero Verus of Three Brothers Trade Goods.

Imperial Market District

The Copious Coinpurse - Thoronir Available Gold: 800 - Imperial Breeches - Cloths Base Cost: 4,000 Weight: 2 Fortify Speechcraft 5 Fortify Personality 5 Fortify Mercantile 5

First Edition - Phintias Available Gold: 1,200 - Document of Purile Banter - Spell Scroll Base Cost: 3,500 Weight: 1 Fortify Endurance 50 for 300 Secs on self Fortify Willpower 50 for 300 Secs on self Drain Speechcraft 50 for 150 Secs on self Drain Personality 50 for 150 Secs on self

Rindir’s Staffs - Rindir Available Gold: 600 - Apotheosis - Staff Base Cost: 3,500 Weight: 10 Fire Damage 33 Frost Damage 33 Shock Damage 33 Charge: 3,000 Uses: 12

Edgar’s Discount Spells - Edgar Vautrine Available Gold: N/A - No Barter

Stonewall Shields - Viator Accius Available Gold: 1,000 - Tower of the Nine - Heavy Armor Base Cost: 4,800 Weight: 14 Defense: 13? Shield 5% Fortify Block 5 Fortify Heavy Armor 5 Drain Light Armor 10 - Greaves of the Flame - Heavy Armor Base Cost: 845 Weight: 21 Defense: 5? Resist Fire 15%

Devine Elegance - Palonirya Available Gold: 1200 - None

Mystic Emporium - Calindil Available Gold: 1,000 - Hands of the Atronach - Heavy Armor Base Cost: 7,000 Weight: 10 Defense: 6? Resist Frost 20% Resist Shock 20% Resist Fire 20%

Slash ‘N Smash - Urbul gro-Orkulg Available Gold: 800 - None

The Gilded Carafe - Claudette Perrick Available Gold: 1,200 - Cyrodilic Brandy - Potion Base Cost: 79 Weight: 0.5 Drain Strength 10 for 30 Secs Fortify Endurance 10 for 30 Secs Fortify Fatigue 20 for 30 Secs

The Best Defense - Maro Rufus Available Gold: 800 The Best Defense - Varnado Available Gold: 1,000 - Aegis of the Apocalypse - Heavy Armor Base Cost: 6,500 Weight: 35 Defense: 12? Fortify Blade 5 Fortify Blunt 5 Fortify Heavy Armor 5 Drain Luck 5 Drain Health 20

The Merchants Inn - Velus Hosidius Available Gold: 50 - None

A Fighting Chance - Rohssan Available Gold: 1,200 - Battleaxe of Hatred - Two Hand Blunt Base Cost: 7,440 Weight: 40 Attack: 4? Damage Strength 5 Damage Willpower 5 Damage Endurance 5 Charge: 3,000 Uses: 30

The Main Ingredient - Ogier Georick Available Gold: 800 - None

Red Diamond Jewelry - Hamlof Red-Tooth Available Gold: 800 - None

The Feed Bag - Delos Fandas Available Gold: 50 - None

Jensine’s “Good as New” Merchandise - Jensine Available Gold: 600 - Akavari Warblade - Two Hand Blade Base Cost: 3236 Weight: 24 Attack: 9? Damage Health 15 Damage Fatigue 30 Damage Magicka 30 Charge: 3000 Uses: 33

Three Brothers Trade Goods - Tertullian Verus Available Gold: 1,000 - Helm of the Deep Delver - Heavy Armor Base Cost: 4,750 Weight: 8 Defense: 4? Light 60 Feet Resist Disease 30 Resist Poison 30 Drain Speed 5 Three Brothers Trade Goods - Sergius Verus Available Gold: 1,000 - Akavari Sunderblade Base Cost: 2,780 Weight: 18 Attack: 8? Disintegrate Armor 100 Disintegrate Weapon 100 Charge: 3,000 Uses: 15

Not much yet, but hopefully it's something. -- 15:50, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

PS: Oh, and I am

See Merchant. --Avfanatic 21:15, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
Funny that; been there all that time, lol. --theSpectator talk 00:37, 26 April 2007 (CDT)
Ah ha ha ha ha ha! Ah well, at least now I know that (without the Wizard's Tower Mod), the best Merchants only have 1,200 to work with. A little disappointed, but at least I have my answer. -- 01:26, 26 April 2007 (CDT)
Hmm... I was checking the Merchant list again, and I noticed there is no page for the Imperial Breeches. Since they are just Cloth, the stats I have are completely accurate. To repeat, if anyone wants to make said page, these are the stats.

The Copious Coinpurse - Thoronir Available Gold: 800 - Imperial Breeches - Cloths Base Cost: 4,000 Weight: 2 Fortify Speechcraft 5 Fortify Personality 5 Fortify Mercantile 5

-- 01:43, 26 April 2007 (CDT)

More Pics?Edit

Hey Spec, I was wondering if I couldn't trouble you for another picture. Because the region articles are so long and list-ful, I was adding pics to make 'em more interesting. There are a great set of waterfalls just below Belda (to the southeast, I believe) that would look great in the Heartlands article. While I would love nothing more than to take it myself, I'm on a damn 360 and so I can't. Would you be willing to get the shot? Thanks a bunch! Andy andy 15:20, 30 April 2007 (CDT)

Sure, I'll see if I can get some after I work on adjusting the ingredient/plant articles. --theSpectator talk 23:15, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
While you're at it, could you take some pictures of the interior of the purchasable house in Bravil? Naturally, I would do it myself except I un-installed Oblivion and now I can't get it to work after re-installing it. With any luck, I'll get it working soon, but I'm not going to hold my breath. \*\ Hellhound43 22:58, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
Hey Spec - I sent you an email response to your question on my page today. Thanks. andy 22:05, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

"Durable" weaponry? Edit

Hey Spec, since you already have the SI expansion, and had it a long time before myself, I'm sure you noticed the "Durable" line of weaponry. They tend to be Daedric or Glass, but I've seen some Elven ones too. Do they actually stand up to abuse (weapon health) more than their regular counterparts? I really don't know why I'm asking since the Madness and Amber weaponry beat most of the durable weapons by a mile. But for the sake of information on this wiki.... ~+~ Dragon of the Imperial 13:04, 15 June 2007 (CDT) Edit: One thing too, where can you use some extra help right now? I'm sort of itching to do something right now and I really can't stop it...

Well, one thing you could do is work on the locations articles, adding descriptions of the various places. You could also flesh out the remaining shops/merchants and other NPC's, or perhaps start completing unfinished quest articles, such as the side quests for the Shivering Isles. There's lots of work to do, but it's really up to you what you want to work on. \*\ Hellhound43 15:32, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
Alright, I'll work on the Shivering Isles stuff. ~+~ Dragon of the Imperial 20:42, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Sorry for eavesdropping, noticed this discussion on Recent Changes... after looking at the Construction set, I can tell you that durable weapons have more Health and are worth more, but are otherwise no different from normal weapons. Another apology for the anonymous post, I've forgotten my user name, or even if I had one, lol... 20:16, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Alright then. Well, I have a 360, so why don't you go and just add in Durable weapons... And just register a new account. I'm sure you can use your email to check if an account existed before. ~+~ Dragon of the Imperial 20:42, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
There's nothing to be sorry about, in fact I would encourage you to create an account and help out. I'm trying to get some work done on getting all of the items documented on the wiki, and would appreciate any help. \*\ Hellhound43 22:33, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Would it be easier to create the list as a new 'material' type, like the way all Iron weapons are listed, etc? There are dozens and dozens of items, one for each weapon for each type of material, excluding arrows, and so it might be simpler to just have them all on one page. Incidentally, this is, obviously, the person who posted previously, I just remembered my password. Haravin 13:33, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

I agree, and we can certainly do that. However, I wouldn't know much as I haven't seen the line of weapons myself (haven't done much in the Isles yet). --theSpectator talk 13:39, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
I believe there is a durable type of every weapon... I've seen Glass, Daedric, Ebony, Elven, and Orcish, but I haven't seen any examples of lower level weaponry such as iron or steel, most likely because since the weapons are leveled and the chances at seeing Durable weaponry appears later levels, iron and steel aren't around anymore. That came out really confusing... but you can imagine what I mean. ~+~ Dragon of the Imperial 21:49, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

Yes. All weapon types. No arrows. Iron is missing the bow. There are also enchanted Durable Weapons. Unfinished listing here. Haravin 00:40, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Great. Even enchanted types. Listing all of them will be a pain. I suppose a reference to the Durable weaponry would be found in every weapon-related page? ~+~ Dragon of the Imperial 17:11, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
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