User:Rpeh's Insanity. Archived permanently for posterity purposes. We have no ill feelings towards Daveh or anyone else on UESP, and the discussion has been resolved peacefully with the sane editors of that wiki :) ~Timeoin

UESP Images Edit

Timeoin, I had a very useful and friendly discussion on IRC with a couple of the other admins here before Skyrim came out, and we came to the decision that all content taken from one site and used on the other would be deleted without complaint once tagged. I don't know why you're ignoring this discussion and your own site policy (here, which clearly states "Images from other websites should not be uploaded to this wiki") but I'm getting a bit annoyed at having to play deletion tag with you.

Please can you discuss this with Zluhcs before removing any more of my deletion templates. Thanks. –rpeh •TCE 06:11, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Incidentally, the new deletion message is broken - try adding a template for yourself and see. –rpeh •TCE 06:11, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Zluhcs is no longer an administrator here. TimeoinSay G'DayView my workSkyrim To-Do List 06:20, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
One of the others then. And your policy is still your policy. –rpeh •TCE 06:29, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
Well, I've changed it back to what it was before Zluhcs changed it over. We still recommend that users upload their own images - always have, always will. Also - the delete template works fine :) TimeoinSay G'DayView my workSkyrim To-Do List 06:33, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
Changing policies without discussion is a pretty crappy thing to do. Zluhcs was implementing what was agreed with other admins in IRC - you don't have the authority to change that on your own. And I'm not talking about the delete template, I'm talking about the message that comes up when you use it. –rpeh •TCE 06:40, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
Oh, and Zluhcs is an admin. The others in the room were Elchzard and Kacj321. Please discuss this with them before making unilateral changes to policy and potentially re-starting the bad feeling between our sites. –rpeh •TCE 06:42, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Stop it Edit

You do not have the authority to make unilateral changes to policy. The version I restored was agreed by three admins and is therefore still the policy of the site until discussed. –rpeh •TCE 07:23, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Might I interject for a moment? First, I would like to mention that Zluhcs has resigned as an administrator of this wiki. Second, approximately a week ago, after I had personally deleted several images from UESP that you flagged for deletion, there was a discussion on the site's IRC channel about using content from that site. We have since re-evaluated our stance on this policies. It was the agreement of admins (myself included), roll backers, and other editors that content from UESP be used so long proper attribution was given to the image. Content from UESP is available under copy-left. Neither the editors of UESP nor this wiki alike own the material we write and photograph. Bethesda does. We are working to inform users that we prefer unique content (images, text, templates) for future reference, while striving to replace such content that is already in use here, with it. This decision was by no means "unilateral", as you so put. In fact, it was quite the opposite. --— Deyvid Petteys (bother \ stalk) 07:33, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
Actually, you're wrong on the point of ownership. UESP owns screenshots taken from the game - this is clear in our copyright policy and well established in law. For instance, Microsoft doesn't own screenshots taken from Microsoft Word used to illustrate training material. While images taken directly from the game files are definitely owned by Bethesda, screenshots are the property of the person taking them.
Frankly, I don't believe your story about this IRC discussion; I think you're making it up in the light of Timeoin's continued violations of policy.
Lastly, it speaks volumes about the poor quality of this site that the only way you can progress is to steal content from UESP. –rpeh •TCE 07:38, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
My turn, i guess. First of all: [1]. Stop claiming that you own the images. You do not. With regards to the IRC discussion, I dont really care what you believe. When we notice content that is from your site, we attribute it properly. Unlike UESP, we dont have 35,000 users, so all of our admins are massive contributors to the site. Furthermore, there is a book company that lifts large portions of our site and sells it - the rare cases of images being used by newbies improperly is nothing compared to that infringement. As for the "poor quality of the site" - perhaps thats because the Administrators have spent so much of their time catering to your whims. (Remember when you asked me to make that UESP template for you? No? Well, I do - and you don't even use it!). As for the quality of the site? How many page hits did you guys have with Skyrim? Because we got 8.4 million, according to Qantcast. Your own site stats show you didnt even reach 5 ;) Now, if you're done distracting us, we are going back to editing. You can either use the appropriate templates or not, its your choice. We will contribute images properly as we see them, however, as I have previously said, our admins are also major editors to this site. So we spend a large part of our day editing. And we like it that way. Really, I think you're just afraid, because you know that in a few years, our wiki will be much better than yours, because even now, with a wiki that is largely incomplete, we're getting much more people visiting our site than you are. TimeoinSay G'DayView my workSkyrim To-Do List 07:56, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
Also, just so you know: We just had a look at how many images it actually is that is used by UESP. Currently 37. Out of the 12,000+ images that we have on the wiki. Do the math. :) TimeoinSay G'DayView my workSkyrim To-Do List 08:06, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
Your ignorance surrounding copyright policy is par for the course. UESP owns screenshots uploaded to it and that's all there is to the matter. You are lying through your teeth about this IRC meeting that changed policy. You would have mentioned it long before now if it were true: the two admins lying about it should be ashamed of themselves.
As for hits, we beat you hands down. Alexa had us inside the top 2,000 sites on the entire Internet.
The reason it's so easy for me to spot UESP images is that all images on this site are so poor, the ones you steal from UESP stand out so clearly. You have NO good content of your own: everything good has been stolen from other sites. You sicken me. 01:16, January 28, 2012 (UTC)
You're joking, right? 98% of the material on this wiki is unique content. Only a handful of images were taken from UESP, which according to your copy right policy, is okay so long as attribution is given -- which it is, on all accounts. It is not your place to insult members of this wiki, or contribute to this harassment in any way. Failure to partake in civil, humane discussion will result in a ban from the site. --— Deyvid Petteys (bother \ stalk) 01:21, January 28, 2012 (UTC)
The last time I was banned here, the admin who did it was ejected from the site by Wikia staff for misconduct.
The only reason there are only a handful of UESP images and pages on this site is because I've taken the time to mark all the others for deletion. The simple fact is that the users of this site routinely upload UESP content and attempt to pass it off as their own work. The agreement made before Skyrim's release that has been unilaterally overridden by Timeoin was that any content from one site uploaded to the other could be marked and deleted by admins on each site. I have no idea why you have decided to renege on this agreement and allow UESP content to be stolen. It does not reflect well upon you. 01:25, January 28, 2012 (UTC)
Most editors, when they get a warning for vandalism (because that is what reverting policy pages without discussion actually is) would take it as a lesson to reflect upon the fact that they may have actually done the wrong thing there. It is encouraging to see the way you make sweeping statements regarding myself and my editors here, without regard for facts. Since you asked the reasons why, though, I shall oblige you in this manner: The community here is sick of the harrassment they routinely recieve from one person. You are well within your rights to point out copyright violations if you notice them. We regularly check and discourage editors from doing so. There is a lot of activity on this wiki though, and sometimes we miss it. Moreover, as was pointed out recently on this article by Cnet, the community here is really strong. And we welcome anyone. See, you can still edit on here (despite being banned) because anonymous editors are welcome here. Now, I sincerely apologise for the fact that the editors don't listen to the half a dozen different warning about uploading copyrighted material. Truly, I am. However, the benefits of allowing anyone to edit the wiki (in the actual spirit of wikis), far outweighs it. So - there are two options here: a) you can continue to contribute to the wiki by helping us to correct any copyright infringements that we may have missed, so that we can correct them, or b) you can get someone else to speak to me about the deletion policy. If it turns out that everyone on wikipedia, wikia and other Creative Commons powered sites is incorrect about what constitutes copyright infringement and that you are correct, then we shall revert back to the old agreement. Until such time, we shall continue to abide by Creative Commons licensing. Mainly because you have severely irked quite a lot of editors here. They are annoyed by the fact that a non-contributing member here is trying to enforce an unwanted policy upon them. Probably not the most tactful response, I know, but then, its keeping in line with your responses of late. Thank you and have a nice day :) TimeoinSay G'DayView my workSkyrim To-Do List 01:44, January 28, 2012 (UTC)
YOU should have paid attention to repeated warnings about stealing content from other sites. Your fellow admins did, hence the discussion on IRC (the one that actually happened) where it was agreed that content should be unique and that content copied from other sites would be deleted. You ignored that. You have unilaterally overturned a decision taken by three admins in agreement with an admin from the superior TES site.
You say (without evidence) that people are sick of being told not to steal UESP content. Well STOP STEALING IT! We - and I speak for many UESP editors here, just check our talk pages - are sick and tired of having our hard work re-posted here in the name of others.
The CNET article is based on quotes from a Wikia CEO so is totally worthless. Instead, try reading this from Reddit - "Use the UESP wiki instead of the Wikia one" - or any of hundreds of other articles that don't try to pretend this site is any use.
Whether or not the policy is unwanted, it's still the policy. You DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO OVERTURN IT ON YOUR OWN. Please delete all UESP images in accordance with policy as previously agreed. 01:53, January 28, 2012 (UTC)
I would like to understand how an image on your site taken from a game is your property, according to your sites own copyright notice: This was taken from the Elder Scrolls series of video games or from websites created and owned by Bethesda, the copyright of which is held by Bethesda. All trademarks and registered trademarks present in the image are proprietary to Bethesda, the inclusion of which implies no affiliation with the UESP. The use of images to illustrate articles concerning the subject of the images in question is believed to fall under the fair dealing clause of Canadian copyright law. Don't believe me? Here is a link to your sites banner. Additionally, your site states: If you want to use content from this site, you can do so, but you must follow the by-sa license. This entails the following: see here. Which you then violated our sites policy for deleting appropriate content that followed the rules of your site and gave proper attribution to your site. See [[2]]. So how are you doing any good? And a last quote from your site: "The copyright for individual components of screenshots from Bethesda's games belongs to them, but copyright for the overall composition rests with the image creator, and is licensed to UESP, as with textual content" therefore if an editor on our site uses an image from your site, which we prefer they don't, then it isn't your sites property, if fact it falls to the editor of the page it came from, then back to Bethesda, not UESP. Neguy71inok (talk) 02:15, January 28, 2012 (UTC)
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